How to Be Social with Autism (Avoid Social Isolation with Social skills training)
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
- Many people ask how to be social with autism? And avoid social isolation? Considering that autism is largely a social disability, having social skills training for autistic adults may seem like a good idea. After all, autistic adults need to improve their social skills, right? Counter-intuitively, this approach does not usually work because these trainings are designed with stereotypical relationships in mind, and do not allow space for genuinely authentic relationships. In this video, I will share some insights as to why this approach doesn’t work and share an outline for a strategy on how to tackle social isolation.
🎞️Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:43 Social Isolation in autistic adults
1:48 Barriers in participating in society
2:15 A Robust Social Network matters
2:40 How to make friends?
3:26 Building Trust
5:41 The Autistic Life and Friendships
5:57 The Alternative if the typical does not work
6:55 Start with a goal
7:20 Quality vs Quantity
10:32 Putting myself in the right pond
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I have found *doing things* with others more helpful than just socialising. By contributing to some task, trust is very quickly developed.
This definitely resonates with me - doing things. When contributing in a practical way, I feel more connected to others who are doing the same thing - like volunteering. The activity/purpose is what we have in common and that fuels more meaningful social connections. 😊
The structure of the same task helps too, I feel like the benefit can feel similar to parallel play.
I usually am more comfortable with someone or a group of people after playing a few rounds of some board game or card game with them, rather than hanging out and just talking. Dunno why, but works for me!
Trouble is, every time I initiate a conversation, I feel as though I am imposing on that person! And why bother when I'm only going to weird them out & make them uncomfortable?
Unfortunately, many people treat me as if I needed their compassion and that it is a real burden to have me around them.
Other autistic people generally won’t find it hard to listen to you.
exactly!!
I'm not going to lie, I saw "social skills training" and had such a negative response I almost didn't click on the video. I'm so glad it is a critique! 🥳
The thing to me is - as autistic people we DO have social skills, we have our own kinds of social skills. It might not be fluid conversation, awareness of hierarchy, adeptness at sarcasm and banter etc, but we can be amazing at empathy, acceptance, integrity and loyalty. With each other, our skills can work really well. More and more I find myself spending time with other autistic people or finding my fellow neurodivergent folk in any social group and gravitating towards them.
I see myself as having an in-built filter that keeps the interesting and accepting people in my life and tends to weed out anyone who is inauthentic or unkind. Also for me, a lot of my social barriers were more of a trauma thing than an autistic thing and healing a lot of that has helped me feel more safely social.
Totally agree with your last paragraph.
Very ironically, I met my not typical husband (not autistic, but high intelligence and eccentric and introverted) at a party of all places. We both hated parties and hardly ever attended them. I was stuck there because it was my roomates throwing the party, and he was dragged there by his best friend. We both thought each other looked like we didn't want to be there, so we spoke to each other.
This is what I've been dealing with my whole 37 years. I've been working on social anxiety with my therapist and have had some progress. I also have improved greatly on socializing online, but at the end of the day I'm still alone. I can't seem to understand how to interact properly, and I feel it's pushed away the few people I was friendly with. It feels awful.
I may be misinterpreting your situation, and if i am i apologize. I do want to say that in my experience as someone with a lot of social anxiety, both "irrational" and built from negative experience, sometimes when we "feel" someone pulling back or that we are pushing someone away, its not a "real" feeling, or at least not a "sign" form them. It's just our scared brain whispering our fears in our "ear" and telling us its reality.
Also on the choosing the right ponds, legitamtely try furry groups, see if you share any intrests, but i've found (and theres some minor research that backs this up) them to be an overall overwhelmingly accepting, queer friendly, and ND friendly spaces. Obviously not everyone is a beacon of kindess, and not everyone will feel like they fit, but on the whole its a decent "filter" to apply.
I'm 43, I'm in the same boat @illcalikid
I'm 43 as well and only diagnosed at 36. Social anxiety (and general anxiety) has been the bane of my existence, especially for all the years I was thinking, "Why am I like this, what is wrong with me, what don't I get it, how come they find it so easy?" Understanding that my brain is functionally different has helped, but not completely.
It is rare for neurotypicals to unconditionally accept who we are, and it is difficult to trust that the people we interact with don't have an agenda.
Honestly, I don't think I have any real advice to offer.
Where I am, there's an Autism society that runs regular events, there might be something like that near where you are. Failing that, gaming stores are littered with us, it's scary but talking to the staff, and openly saying you're autistic, could be a good lead for finding friends. Linking up with a group of us that understand where you're coming from could help.
However, we can algal be a pretty closed minded, defensive, lot as most of us were bullied pretty hard in school and find it difficult to trust/accept people.
And I dub myself, "King of the overshare!"
I’ve found that working on myself helped a lot. That sounds so simplified, but I did work on myself inner self and removed all presuppositions on what the reality is like. So speaking up help, and if you’re wrong, hopefully you have supportive people to correct you. They may not know it all, and therefore you need to use your instincts as well.
Inner work made me realize the traumas we carry, and that helps to build a healthy self image. When you’re happy, you realize everyone else becomes happy. When you’re fearful, people mirror back that same emotion. Be audacious and bold, and you only need good intentions to keep your conscience clear. I feel a lot of the time, we don’t try hard enough, and to make up for that failure or lack of courage, we concoct ideas in our heads, and believe them, this serves to protect the good and make you feel safe, but at the same time takes you away from reality.
And lastly, I do a step by step analysis, which requires you being present, in the now. Go out, feel people staring at me, feel anxious. Okay what does this mean? Why is it they mean with the stare? Oh, it’s curiosity. Okay I’m drained, go back home. Rinse and repeat, with each time going one step further. Don’t overthink it and don’t try to understand everything external, instead, understand yourself. Am I doing this because I want to be in control? Is it safety im looking for? Am I being needy because I’m looking for love externally while being cruel to myself?
The more I understood myself, the more it makes sense why the social anxieties come. The more I bring the unknown into the known, the less confused and turmoil I experience. Because we fear what we do not know-Batman. The more I tell myself that I can experience this anxiety, and sit with it, the more I believe that I a, capable to handle it, and instead of running away, I deal with it. It makes your stronger, braver and more welcoming of adversities. The obstacle is the way-Marcus Aurelius.
I can only do low maintenance friendships these days, meaning I’ll stay in touch via texting but probably won’t want to get together or chat on the phone. While I wish I was able to do these things because I think they would enrich any connections I have, I’ve just started accepting that it’s too hard. If I force myself to plan a visit with someone, the level of anxiety it causes me makes it not worth it. And I don’t drink or use anymore so I can’t use that as a crutch.
I started to feel a lot better when i really ignored things like talking for the sake of talking or being social for the sake of being social. To be better at fixing things myself. And to be selective in who i talk to and why. Removing most of the neurotypical stuff regarding talk and social interactions have done wonders for my well being. I interact with people when it serves a purpose. Like discussing topics on LinkedIn or other places.
When I was a teenager I really struggled with loneliness and social isolation. I was still undiagnosed so I had no idea why it was so hard for me to do stuff that came naturally to my peers. So being me I went to the library and read books about how to make friends and be socially confident.
I acted and behaved in the way the books said I should and it worked amazingly well. I reflected what people said to me and maintained eye contact for no more than two seconds and all that stuff. I quickly met people who wanted to spend time with me.
But I knew it was all fake. These people didn't really know me or want to spend time with me. They were only interested in the exhausting persona that I had created. In the end I decided that it wasn't worth it.
This is exactly why I became very choosy with how to make friends, and the only criteria is how it feels to both parties. I have no problem in cutting a relationship when it becomes too rigid to be our authentic selves, because I've known reciprocity before, and I've happened to find it outside the confines of typical "social skills training" conversations, with people who are also "weird and bumpy", also into what fulfills me and don't have to overexplain to each other. "Putting yourself in the right pond" is solid advice.
I've gone through many periods of social isolation and reclusiveness (would probably have had more if it wasn't for having jobs and studying). I'm pretty independent. Following the pandemic and burnout, I made more of a conscious decision to give myself as much alone time as I need to recover and stay well - which in some respects has been great, but in others I experience those exact same questions of "who would I call in an emergency?" "What if I had a bad day and really want someone to talk to?" etc. My strategy for building a support network before was very much linked to having a job where I worked with others, or my studies, and now I don't have either of those, it's hard to know where to start. Add to that being autistic and weird, and having trust issues, so I can't just find random anyones. This video was soo helpful! I am thinking identifying my values might be a good step.. It's nice to see building social connections in a genuinely positive way, rather than something daunting.
You have decribed perfectly my situation. You don't live in Brazil, do you?
What support network, there's no one to call. Who make's phone calls anyways 😂
I sincerely hope you young people can find ways to fit in and have better lives. I grew up in a much better world, where $2 an hour could get us much further than $15 an hour gets you today. Unknown to me at the time NT's screwed me over time after time, leaving me essentially homeless today, so I honestly couldn't care less about being social today. I don't want to be social, I just want to return to wherever I came from before I arrived on this planet. I wish I could leave this world as a better place for all of you young people, but my generation has failed terribly in that respect. Take care!
Genuine and authentic is very important to me too. I've just been diagnosed with ASD at 52 and am gay. It's been tricky.
I sympathize. Both communities put emphasis on the freedom to be yourself for a reason, even tho it's not perfect.
Wishing you best of luck.
What has your experience as an autistic person in the gay community been? I'm younger than you and queer (nblm) and haven't really been able to find my space in the queer community with the weird space I inhabit as a non-binary trans person into men.
Yeah I almost exclusively form intense, close-knitted relationships and that definitely doesn't fit the model most people have. Most ppl seem to just want friends to have fun with or have a good time, I'm starting to notice, and can be freaked out by anything closer, and those are definitely not the kind of relationships I'm interested in having. But it's definitely something I had to learn - not everyone is really interested in getting to know each other. Ppl can seem really close but... it's a different kind of close, I guess??
Just hearing the permission to do things differently is so validating.
I'm almost 60 and newly identified ND.
Most of my work, social and friendship groups are crumbling as I allow myself to grow closer to authenticity.
There's been deep fear and resistance to this because of an assumption I'll be unemployed, friendless and completely isolated forever.
However , I'm unwilling (and too exhausted) to build my life back up, yet again, with the same tools that constructed the badly designed, poorly fitting and unstable relationship foundations.
I'd love to hear more on this topic but already I can feel a shift in the resistance to letting things go that are just too hard work.
I found out a long time ago I did not want to make close friendship with people I found boring, so my social network is full of diferent people who gives me joy to be with. People that can feel we are close friends even if it goes over a month not meeting is great to have, someone who supports and care when it counts. (and visa versa)
Sometimes I feel its more difficult to talk to my family than to my freinds. (harder to be myself)
I also find it hard to be in a social setting where I feel like the wierd one, somewhere along the years I lost the confident I had to not care about what people was thinking about me, It may be so because I have become much more aware of who I am later on in life.
Thank you for your great videos :D
Trust issues. Stops me letting anyone in. Also I try through kindness. It's who I am.
But take advantage, or try to, breaks trust. Back to square one.
BUT, I'm trying to be more relaxed with things. I have to stop expecting people to operate like myself and also relax with myself to be 'in the moment' and enjoy whatever for what it is.
while not trusting others, you can still strive to be the person others can trust, if that makes sense
just throwing this out as find this idea comforting, idk about you peeps, it may only be for me
@@felixgarciaflores yes, i we were, i have yo at that we times.
Much like 'respect'. You give respect, and you let the other decide whethers it's reciprocated. If yes great! If no, then that's their choice.
Too much kindness can attract the kind of people who treat you like a doormat.
This really helps me since I have issues with understanding what friendship means beyond a pure comceptual level. Or more precisely what it means for neurotypicals. Thanks for the video👍
I like talking to someone about a niche interest even if I am not personally interested. Here’s how it normally goes:
-them: shares a detail about their interest
-me: interact with their comment then add a comment about my own interest (even if it’s completely unrelated)
-them: interacts with my comment. Shares another detail about their interest.
-and so on, and so on
Sometimes, it's exciting to learn all the facets to something you're only passingly familiar with. I bonded with another person over our love of audio stories. She was into "Old God's of Applachia" and I loved the Golden age of radio.
Honestly, it was the last bit that is the biggest question to me: where do you actually find those small-group interactions? I get swamped in any large group; my social skills leave me on the periphery, and I’ve never found the snack groups.
there's snacks?
So, herein lies the problem. I actually experienced the way I like to meet people. It was in university, I studied physics, and I got to know people by doing exercise sheets together, or experiments together. I got to bond over intellectual topics, build trust before having to delve into personal stuff, solve problems together.
However, going to university isn't accessible to me any more. And I'm not really finding these settings.
Tabletop rpgs are SOMEWHAT similar, but still more tiring because of more personal stuff involvement. I have less capacity for this.
So, I kind of already knew about this and I'm still just having the problem that I just don't know how to recreate that setting that worked for me. It's so sad that most people see universities as that place to get a degree needed for work, unable to see that it provides a specific social space that might be needed for some people.
"I got to bond over intellectual topics, build trust before having to delve into personal stuff, solve problems together." - Yeahh I loved that about university too. Maybe evening classes? Or volunteering in an academic environment?
You said Tabletop RPGS were close to what you were seeking. Have you tried war gaming with miniatures? They love crunching numbers.
First, thanks for a great video, really made me think. ❤ I'm late diagnosed M52, and also have ADHD and high IQ, and most of my friends/acquaintances are neurotypical people I met via my wife. I can somewhat socialize with them, because they are all academics, so they don't engage that much in small-talk, etc. I have two female friends who have ADHD, and they are easier to talk to. I want to try and socialize with others on the spectrum, but haven't dared to yet. I met another autistic and gifted guy through my work, and we really had some great, atypical talks. But I can't gather the courage to contact him, partly because we met via work, so I don't know if it's appropriate, partly because I've only just been diagnosed, whereas he is so honest and open about his autism, so I still feel I'm too much acting that I'm neurotypical, looking in the eye, shaking hands, small talking, even though I hate it. I sorta feel I gotta work more on unmasking before I'm ready to meet others like me, or it'll be too confusing or I will seem fake. Does this make sense? Also, people with ASD are so different; I figure I would function best with someone who has a sort of similar profile or interests, or who also has ADHD.
Similar. M57, only recently diagnosed. Friends are mostly the women I work with, who I also sometimes meet up with outside of work. In my case, though, my wife is also autistic and has similar struggles.
What are your special interests anyway?
Thank you. It is so absolutely refreshing and so needed to hear ways to unmask and be true to self. We are hearing the messages from some therapists who work with neurodivergent couples that immaturity and no changes are to be expected in the autistic partner. This is so untrue. Brain structures don't change but new pathways forward are possible with mutual respect. To be authentic for both partners is possible. To understand eachother is possible.
I recently had a situation where I met someone and became friends with them rather quickly. The bonds were shared interests, shared health conditions, and largely liking the same method of communicating. It fell apart rather quickly, though, because, in reflection, I had been being my authentic self and was putting myself out there, but the other person was in their own bubble and not engaging with me as much as I felt was happening. On reviewing the text conversation, it turned out that a lot of the closeness and bond I felt was me filling in the gaps. It filled me with sadness, and kind of not wanting to engage with people any further.
As someone who's neurospicy myself (adhd) I immediately recognize autistic traits because I have similar difficulties in social settings. When I realize im speaking to someone "normal" I feel more comfortable because I don't have to feel so self conscious about conversation rules. I cant stand boring small talk. Id much rather hear every interesting random fact about trains or bugs. Dont be afraid of being weird, its way cooler.
Eternally thankful for your videos! I wasn't diagnosed and the idea only crossed my mind once long ago. You helped me see all the patterns, connect all the evidence both in history and the solutions I came up with. What you recommend is what worked best for me, now I know why. Thanks for your generous work again!
The rare crochet example really got me. I was literally crocheting when it was mentioned 😂
I've always been very specific about my close friends. But I started making space for people I shouldn't have because of various circumstances and environments I was put in as I got way older. I'd much rather be alone than ever wasting time on people who are judgemental and not like me. (deep and authentic) Just don't have space or energy for people who doesn't want me in their life as much as I would've wanted them to be. It's amazing if you stop forcing things. Similar people attract one another naturally.
This is a great educational video about disabilities social skills I Just turned 43 years old last month I don't do activities with big crowds it does gets me anxiety in my brain it does kinda makes me little uncomfortable plus I'm a loner person sometimes I do talk with some people but I like one on one conversation with someone I do know with trustworthy, honesty, confidence, supportive and understanding.
This video boils down to keep looking until you find people with the same interests as you and who are in small groups? That's how I summarized it.
I'm in a Pokémon Go group and I go to the gym. In both situations I hang out with people who share the same interest but only when I'm in those situations.
Thinking about it, the last solid friends I "made for myself" were in the 1980s. However, I'm not short of solid friends because my wife makes them, introduces them to me in very small group situations, and we often hit it off and become friends on our own account. That works for me!
For awhile now I have found myself in a strange life situation where I can call upon a lot of people for help if I need a ride to the airport or if my car breaks down, but I have a severe shortage of people I can just spend time with to hang out with regularly.
Ironically, the strategy that has mostly failed me through life is trying to make friends through shared mutual interests. I have found that, throughout my life, most people who share my primary interests have little else in common with me. Often they seem like completely normal people who just happen to have this one slightly obscure interest.
It also doesn't help that, while I may find eccentricities endearing, I dislike weird people. Unique interests and even some unique behavior can be endearing, but when it gets too loud (ex: nose rings, pink hair) or turns into a lifestyle (ex: Goths, furries) I steer clear.
Social skills are so confusing just on the fact that different groups of people seem to have their own logic
So one thing that works well with one group doesn’t make any sense with another and they think you’re insane
End up just being friendly with close friends and giving up blending in anywhere else
Agreed...
Same. I've isolated for far too long & its made facets of my personality somewhat of a nuisance to others. This video definitely helps.
I’m also definitely not against trying to learn and understand society more it just feels like quantum physics sometimes
@@-dtuyhnjhggvjjjn I think I'd prefer to learn quantum physics, it seems easier.
I can remember my mother telling me that I had to be interested in things that I had no interest in. Like if someone asks me what I think about football, say that it's good. The thing is people can see through that. I was more interested in connecting with people who shared my interests.
Depending on your age, your mother might have had to adapt herself to making friends in a small town. It's a social skill that Gen Z and Alpha haven't really needed as much.
@@affsteak3530, I'm 49.
I don't seem to have a problem *making* friends, I have a problem *keeping* friends (or maybe making the right friends). Even with other ND people everything seems to be going fine and then they ghost me or tell me an an awful person or just stop wanting to hang out with me with no explanation.
I've given up tbh. Thankfully I much prefer to be alone and to me social stuff is way more effort than it's worth.
This is helpful, I’d like to hear more about how to find the right “pond“.
I would like to have friends, but so hard to find someone i feel comfortable with. To find someone i can be myself with feels impossible
A few random comments from me:
Having someone to call in an emergency doesn't equal being friends with someone for me. It can be the same people, but often it is not (especially when you move cities and countries frequently, since you are always starting over in everything). I have who to talk to, call, etc. and I prefer not to 9 out of 10 times. I adore my independence. I do like when people I know feel free to tell me when they are going through stuff and I try listen to them and make them food.
I am a member of quite a few community groups given I have lots of hobbies and do sports and such, but I don't see myself belonging to any of these groups. I can associate with many but belong to none and that is exactly what I prefer. There is too much drama internally within most of them anyway.
For example, I just returned from a social gathering that was organized by a member of one of the community groups I go to to practice a particular skill. I barely survived an hour there! Conversation had nothing to do with why we gather as a group and it was all about chatting and lots of small talk. I really think it is nice that they gather if they vibe with it, and I went for an hour to be nice and supportive and to bring food, but my capacity for and interest in these things is very limited.
If I am going somewhere for a particular skill for me it is a literal thing. I go to practice and perfect my skill and talk about that subject. I don't go to chat, small talk, date or make friends. I simply cannot focus on both things at the same time and more often than not my interest is in perfecting my skills, not socializing. There is nothing worse than joining a group about particular subject that is my core interest and then discovering they are all there to hang out and chill and the subject why they gather in the first place is rarely mentioned. Somehow I am supposed to read in between the lines and pick up on the fact that the topic is just an excuse to get together. I can't do that, I can' read cues like that.
In my observation and analysis of humans around me neurotypical people are those that actually lack lots of social skills, have problems making real friends and are endlessly frustrated about it all. Having social skills such as manipulating others, endlessly engaging in superficial and shallow pointless conversations, being insincere and talking about most boring things in the world as if they matter are skills I totally can do without, thank you.
Ten out of 10 times when I feel authentic connection with someone it turns out the other person is autistic too, or alike.
I've also noticed that getting together with people with the same interest rarely gets me people who are similar to me and who I vibe with. I often notice that people have a very different approach to the topic than I have. It's not always like that, but with certain interests in certain gatherings it is like that.
One interest where I found this noticable is yoga. I find that in yoga spaces there is a focus or routine of practice, which is inaccessible to me (PDA autism). On the other hand I hold interest in spiritual experience and also historical and cultural roots. And, and this is probably the biggest mismatch, I am interested in those roots as informational interest as I like to maje connections between topics, but not to adopt values for myself. There is often a huge difference in experience, approach and values there.
@@toni2309 Yes, totally. It's often that with a specific interest you're expected to be a specific kind of a person, hold certain beliefs, lead a particular lifestyle etc. While I am just interested in knowing a lot about a particular thing, which feeds my need to understand how everything works & connects with everything else. For example, I like to know a lot about religion while being zero religious myself. People then assume I must be religious because I know a lot about & research religion. Which would be incorrect. And this repeats with dozens of other things.
@@toni2309 this is sooooo true!
getting somewhere bc you're genuinely interested in the topic and want to learn more about it or use it for something you're working on _versus_ arriving there to find people who made the thing their entire personality and social identity, with a certain kind of close-mindedness when it comes to making wider connections
on yoga in particular though, i get it why most people would focus on the practice and nothing more, i'd argue that its historical and cultural or "spiritual" connotations are an entirely different topic in itself
@@felixgarciaflores Yes, but the thing that I am trying to get to is that there are different kinds of practice. Traditionally, as far as I know, there is the practice centering the spirituality aspect and adapting the practice to you with the goal of furthering your spiritual awareness, while what I think people mean is yoga practice as in just doing yoga classes and getting a lot of practice in that doing.
@@toni2309 I do yoga regularly and Western adaptation of it is mostly (but not always) surface level (I'm not from the West originally, but I live in North America in forever by now), not fully practiced as it was intended. Plenty of yoga folks in my group have no idea about the source, tradition & origins of it. They just wanna move, or work on back pain, be more flexible or even trendy. Lots of them come to our group because they doctor sent them to work on their health, blood pressure, etc. Zero relation to spirituality or anything deeper & imaterial.
I came to more or less the same strategy, if by a slightly different route, concluding that, "If I assume that there's at least one person in the world you would like me for who I am on the inside, then the only way we will ever find each other is if I act as much like "myself" as possible and make those traits as visible as possible to as many people as possible, (in complete contrast to masking.)"
However, because a lot of my interests are very niche and technical, (and need not involve other people most of the time), I've had a hard time finding the right "ponds."
As such, I did what was probably the most unnecessarily overcomplicated thing I could to increase my "visibility" and wrote/narrated an audiobook about my interests and personality (using a fictional framing device to make it interesting on its own) and posted it to RUclips.
As of the time I'm making this comment, I've received some generally positive responses, but no real "relationships" yet, though I figure this is also the sort of thing that is more likely to find "the right person" the longer it is in circulation.
I would certainly appreciate any constructive feedback you might have on this methodology.
I kinda habe the opposite problem in which my interests are usually very people-oriented, but because I as a person am both auDHD and a reserved introvert, I have a hard time meshing with people that are typically in those settings. It's like, I feel more me and comfortable when I'm being more, say, "mysterious", but it can easily invite people to misjudge me with all assumptions of normalcy.
Trust is subjective to the person. I build relationships with people who understand I am trustworthy despite my lack of "social skills" because I am not an asshole and they hold that space for me. They support and challenge me to be comfortable in spaces where I otherwise wouldn't.
Oddly enough, it seems like neurotypical people have more fixed and rigid ideas about relationships...
Question for anyone. When forced into a social gathering with stangers, what does everyone talk about if you're not interested in sports, celebrities, gossip, drama, or social media trends, or keeping up with the Jones', etc. I'm a very literal, reality-based type of person.
Me too, all he same as you wrote! However, I do & like sports.
Well, what are you interested in?
I ask them surface level questions about themselves like what are your hobbies, why do you like them, what do you do for work etc. Everyone likes to talk about themselves and that way you actually get to know the person :)
I simply don't talk if uninterested 😂 but if I don't have the choice, I just spin the convo into a different angle. Let's say, if they talk about celebrity gossip, I put my interest on the nature of the gossip (i.e. the standards of where the gossip takes place) rather than being a sounding board who says yes to everything they say.
I've had good experiences by doing this, some people have their curiosity sparked. Some feel challenged by this, however. Best to not take it personally when the latter happens 😅
I usually wouldn't talk, or I'd talk about the fact that I don't know what to say, or I'd talk about something in the immediate environment that we can both relate to (e.g. "I like the colour of that wallpaper. What would you describe that shade as?" - conversation ensues about whether it is maroon or burgundy or dark red - move on to talking about favourite colours or home decor... Not hugely interesting, but I'm an artist, so if I can talk about visual stuff, I can just about get by). It also helps to have something right in front of me so that I'm not having to pluck something random from my imagination, as that rarely goes well!
I can be a little social, but it feels like I can do it only once a day and then have to take the rest day off 😂
I have a lot of friends here in Lalor, and on Facebook. I have befriended many famous people, including actors and people in authority. I still have the social anxiety from the years I was bullied at primary/high school. Often I am left out of family conversations at the dinner table/social settings. Often I am socially isolated because I speak the hard truth which no-one will listen to. I am often very alone in my own church, consigned to do all the curiatic (bureaucratic) jobs.
I've been through the whole "ABA in the wild" process, throwing myself into highly social environments and trying to train my social "deficits" out of myself. This landed me in severe burnout, genuinely feeling like I was developing early-onset Parkinsons. Would not recommend.
7:32 quality is important.
But not everyone can fulfill every aspect of friendship in a sole manner.
I tell my daughter for example, she has school friends, college friends, work friends, and each group will fulfill a certain avenues she explores when it comes to interests.
It's also good to be maliable in this manner in order to fit well in those scenarios.
I want to develop friendships with neurotypical people who help keep me tied to the broad, normal aspects of society and ways of being while offering them a deviation from the monotony of that word. A lot of neurotypical people dread small talk and social formalities, or at least they get tired of it. I want to be the friend that sort of gives them permission the deviate from that without them feeling like they're the weird one. Everyone has their abnormal side and a desire to let it out.
I don't agree that people who have relationships came by them easily or that only neuro-divergent people deal with social isolation.
I think we need to be careful making judgements about how something that looks "easy" on the outside is/was truly easy to achieve; that light-hearted chatter between friends that we overhear doesn't have deep foundations before, below, after and around it. We simply cannot know what is happening in someone else's life.
I don't really think that the only people who benefit from qualitative relationships are those who are neurodivergent. Everyone benefits from quality relationships. Most people I have met, whether they are "my" type or not, whether they are neurodivergent or neurotypical, whether they appear to be more or less socially "normal" - they are all quirky and interesting when I have the patience to get to know them.
Yes, I want to hear good advice about how to build social skills in ways that respect me and the people I'm dealing with. No, I don't need this to be contrasted with the method that doesn't work and have that method described as what "normal" people use. People communicate in a variety of ways. We can all benefit from finding others who communicate in ways that suit us, but I don't think that because one style of communication doesn't work for me that style is therefore shallow and of less value. It's simply not for me - at this moment in time.
But I don't think I can find other people that share my interests because if they do, they probably don't go out either. And if they do, it still feels like a needle in a haystack because I find people who are only a little bit into what I like and not in the same way like even something simple like old video games and it leads to more social isolation. You can be around other people and still feel lonely.
Honestly, as it turns out, most the people that I have managed to form any long lasting friendship with, can probably be descried as being somewhat neuro-spicy personalities themselves.
I have no clue how to find the Right Ponds...
I find most people so boring. I feel like im surrounded by replicants. I noticed patterns in people. They like the same things over and over. They ask the same questions over and over. I noticed for example an obsession to ask questions related to work and Im like ok you do this but who really are you? What is your personality? I also noticed how most people (neurotypical) enjoy standard way of thinking..to stay in the box. Its so boring. I find social contexts so draining. I absolutely hate fake and forced human interactions.
Undiagnosed myself. But just thinking about my life, as a teenager I did a lot that everyone else did like texting. Now, I have a hard time being in crowds and keeping a conversation going etc.
I Love how you Just cancelled the skills therapy 😂
Actually I Work on a social Network for years now, so that I don't put all the "pressure" to one person. I Love to have one Person that's always there, but it is too much for everyone.
And I prefere small groups up to 4 (max. 5).
At the Moment it is Just so hard to find "my" pond 🙈😅
I increasingly recoil at the word/concept "disability." To me a disability is what in the old days we'd call a "handicap," by which we meant the absence of a faculty that you might call a "default" or requisite trait of normal human life. Like hearing, seeing, the ability to walk, and, yes, indeed, a certain minimum of cognitive function. What we used to call "mental retardation" (a perfectly good term before it took on connotations of mockery) also qualified as a disability. Definitely the most severe manifestations of autism, the kind that prevent a person from living independently, from attending to their most essential daily needs, qualify as "disability." That is, the ability to do something they ideally should do, isn't there. To me that's a disability. Yet what they call high-functioning autism , or Asperger's... is it right to atach the word "disability" to it? I am certain I am autistic. Yet I don't feel "disabled." What I feel is that I have certain INabilities. That's intrinsically different from a disability. Everybody has inabilities. Some of us can juggle, some are unable to. Some of us easily handle public speaking, some of us are unable to. Some can learn multiple langauges, some are unable to. The social limitations, or what you might call the "mismatch" between an autistic person and the unexamined social assumptions usually demanding certain public behaviors, these are inabilities--things an autistic person is unable to do without often a severely damaging self-forcing to be what he/she isn't. To feel what he/she actually doesn't. To identify with and relate to what he/she really doesn't. It's a performative imposition that wreaks long-term visceral havoc (which may, ironically, lead to real disabilities!). For me the great liberation of my autism discovery is the revelation that I am simply unable to do and be some things that all my life I'd thought I had no other option than to do and be. And now I don't have to anymore. Which leads me to feel anything BUT "disabled." Instead, it's an astounding new empowerment.
A curious sort of difference between a disability and an inability is, I think, that a real disability is about something you really wish you could do, while an inability tends to be something you're not naturally inclined to anyway, simply because it's not there in your "wiring." This is why, isn't it, you hear most autistic people say that, if they were offered a pill that would instantly turn them neurotypical, they'd refuse it. As I would. Precisely because becoming that neurotypical person would annihilate the actual person I am. Why would I be interested in becoming not-me? I can't juggle, either, or pole-vault, but I'm really not interested in becoming a pole-vaulter or juggler. I don't consider it a "disability" that I can't do those things. I'm just UNable to do those things and don't actually NEED to be able to.
@kensears5099 I don't increasingly recoil at the word/concept "disability" at all, because the word disability is not a bad word at all. I despise the word special needs and "mental retardation" because people like you and me who have disabilities don't have needs that a special at all. I know the word "mental retardation" was never ever the correct word to use to describe people with an IQ of 70 or less.
@@kensears5099I recently had a similar conversation with my wife.
I hold a similar view to you but, maybe because she works in healthcare (or maybe because she's looking at me from the outside), my wife has a more balanced view of it than I do.
Her comment about it was that, in reference to healthcare in a strictly neurotypical society, it is a disability.
Yes, we could redefine things (and maybe should) to use less negative words, but the words don't hold the same negative weight in a purely clinical setting.
Basically, we are not able to perform in the same way that a biased neurotypical society sets a the standard. Thus, we have a disability within that frame of reference.
Much as you wouldn't ask an amputee (or someone with a limb difference) to be a runner without accommodations (in this case the accommodation could be some sort of prosthesis) you shouldn't ask an autistic person to work in a overly sensory stimulating environment while asking them to perform higher order mental functions that require social interaction.
That doesn't mean we aren't awesome at the things we can do, but there is a neurotypical box that we don't fit in, and we shouldn't try to.
Actually, just because I want to share the idea that just jumped into my head, it's like hammering a square peg into a round hole. Anything that doesn't fit in the hole is labelled a disability. Except that instead of a square peg, we are a 4-dimensional hyper cube.
(By the way, I'm writing this in a teaching laboratory with multiple instruments, vacuum pumps, fume hoods, and music playing. So, a sensory stimulating environment where I have to perform higher order mental functions that require social interaction).
@@brendonschollum2790 Wonderfully put, thank you! Yes, I also completely agree with you. Words...disability, inability...are such funny things, all very fuzzy and, really, filled with whatever notions people want to fill them with. Contextually (i.e., in a neurotypical world) there is absolutely something to the notion of "disability" when your cognitive structrue and inner "matrix" are permanently that square peg to the world's round hole. It's kind of an imposed disability, isn't it. In paradoxical harmony with my sense of liberation and new prerogatives, I am equally conscious, daily, of this imposed disability. That requires a deep reassessment of one's priorities and "hierarchy of values." Which imposed disabilities are expendable (I'm not going to care about them, or care that anybody else cares)? And which are "worth fighting for"--you might say, the social, interrelational equivalents of access ramps and elevators? But now that you've made me think about this more, I suppose that's what people with "real" disabilities do too, isn't it? The blind or the deaf, they simply must create environments for themselves where their disabilities don't matter, where there isn't the least need for the faculties they don't possess. Otherwise life would be utterly unendurable. There simply has to be a happy space where nothing at all needs to be seen or heard (or coped with for not seeing or hearing it). Likewise an autistic person can hardly endure in a 24/7 environment demanding neurotypical performance. It's viscerally shredding, literally leaving physical wreckage for a lifetime. One more thought, on that word "matrix." As I've been pondering all this in the year since my discovery, the thought has come to me that autism is actually an absence of "matrix," a psycho-neural (psycho-emotional?) incapacity to construct a blueprint, schema, default map, for the world of interactions, expectations and relationships, even, yes, spatially (I seem to be divinely gifted at getting lost). I can express that succinctly wth my difficulty as a child grasping arithmetic. When the answer would be, FINALLY, sprung on me by an exasperated teacher after my multiple (pun unintended) failures, "7x8 is 56?! FIFTY-SIX!!", I'd just stare in bewilderment. She could just as well have been screaming "7x8 is..a frog! A FROG!! How can you not SEE that?" Okay...a frog. Today. But what will it be tomorrow? I had absolutely no map of meaning to fit that assertion into. And the emotions packed into the encounter--I'd practically call it an altercation--were, again, bewildering and crushing. I only knew I was making people mad, and I had no idea why what they were getting mad about mattered or why it made me a bad person.
@@brendonschollum2790 PS I love the hyper cube! 😄
I think my issue was whenever I got into a new setting. This is when I left my old friends behind and had to start over such as when I join the US Air Force. I thought that in order to make friends, I had to talk to people. The problem is I talked too much and about things that they were not interested in.
Thank you. Extremely helpful!
a few good friends for decades with shared middle and high school interest (swimming) and a rare friend or two from international work whereby one can meet intelligent like minded people in small groups or one on one.
Thanks for sharing this. It is a good survival strategy. The reality is to thrive we need to go and adapt to the mainstream of society. Good bad or ugly that is wat traditional Social Skills Training tries to do.
Love this 🎉
Perhaps more work needs to be done to help people with autism from babyhood, as their brains are highly plastic up till age 7. This might help with any anxiety.
I have otherwise no problems with finding relationships that I feel are good for both parties, but I don't have no damn clue about where those "ponds" of right people are. It's not like I could go around asking random people if they're in the same pond with me.
I lack the feeling of emotional continuity when i havent seen or talked to someone for a while. It feels like im starting from scratch in relationship building even with family and long term friends. Does anyone else have this issue and knows how to deal with it?
I have this issue, it’s like I hit “reset”.
I also struggle massively if I have to approach someone or initiate a conversation. But if someone approaches me, I can often have a conversation.
It it usually surface level, superficial stuff though. I struggle to connect deeper and don’t understand why anyone would find me interesting or want to connect with me.
That sounds really self deprecating, but that not the point of my comment - the point is that I struggle to understand social connections a beyond superficial level of “what can I do for you?”.
I have liked this one again.
Chess is so good for this
I find people difficult to understand when they're being honest and generally cut them off when they aren't. I guess I'm not sure I actually want friends.
How does one deal with a friend not being honest when that removes trust from the relationship?
PS I core messaged that 😉
I think you're intelligent, Paul, and that's why it can't be easy for you to meet interesting people. I remember that when I was an engineer, it was much easier to find people to talk to. My biggest difficulty currently is finding intelligent people. Everyone around me is so damn stupid.
I'm chock full of bumps and weird stuff...😂 I've forgotten how to do the normal small talk friendship thing...and I miss it😢
This will probably be really helpful, just one quick question though. I can't access your website that you show at the endings, does anyone else have this problem and if so, is there anyway I can check it out?
00:46
I'm a taxi.
Nope, didn't work 😂.
Seriously though, I've always struggled with support networks. As well as aspergers i am physically disabled from birth (spina bifida) so life is hard and i find I end up having to virtually _beg_ for support at times, which in itself is exhausting.
Hence it's virtually impossible to have a 'social' network, let alone a support network.
Being authentic is key for me, but also finding like-minded people.
What your comment about crochet serious? I knit and crochet and I’d like to know about that type of crocheting. What’s it called?
In which time zone is this happening?
Melbourne
this is happening outside of time and space
not that it is my problem youshould add a part of this video that explains how to find the specailst groups that you suggest we join. also once you ja specail subject group if all you talk about at break in that subject after a while t you will loose the intrest of people if your not the type to make a prsentation yourself. could you do a video sometime on on how to go backwars from specailized group brak talk to small talk.
How do you unmask without shutting down?
Is it common for aspbergers folks to move stuff around and/or rearrange things compulsively? My darling hubby is an aspire and I'm finding this very frustrating to deal with. I'm constantly looking for stuff because he moves and rearranges things.
I try yo make friends and I have done away from wherevi live and tried where I live, but it dosrnt eork
I've heard talking when they know I'm there but they can't see me, ie there's something odd about me, and me nemesis saying to their friends I don't know what I've done wrong, stonewalling me for last sixteen month at least, screaming at me like someone going off deep end their behaviour scares me thrm snd thrir gang hog communal area of where we live so I go out another way I want friends I'm sorry but I don't find it that easy yo mix apart from autism I've got BPD and GAD so that's triple trouble add patoniaxand psychosis yo it all it's very very hard
Be my friend 😭😭😭
The solution to our problems would be to find each other. I'm sure several of you could be a great friend of mine. The problem is that in these autistic groups there is a lot of political correctness and a lot of people signaling virtue and that are there just for the likes.
6:15 - I see many of these Autistic people and wonder how can they be Autistic. Well I have been that type myself, but it failed eventually every time. Now I'm burned out, with none of the normal things in my life, and this time my Autism seems to have integrated fully and I understand I could never actually be/live that way in the long run. So I'm curious about these Autistic people who live the "normal way" stable and long-term. It seems a contradiction to me, and makes me think, are there like different types of Autistic people, because I've done a lot like working as a professional chef, and even I couldn't sustain a normal life.
My point is I could be considered extremely high functioning for an Autistic, so if even I couldn't, who are these normal functioning "Autistics" ? Makes me doubt if they are at all. At the same time I understand, maybe they are severely struggling and/or it's a matter of time before they buckle, maybe they have a great network of support or something that makes it just work. But I say this because many of them seem to actually manage this way of life. How do I know? Well I can see they have families, jobs, married, kids, and even travel and do many rich things. In online groups I see many of these Autistic people. It confuses me. I guess my conclusive question is, if you are truly Autistic, with all that entails, how are you doing this? Shouldn't work.
Who im gonna call? GHOSTBUSTERS!! 👻👻👻
Something that distresses me is that 9/10 women with autism are sexually assaulted. You are also more than twice as likely to be sexually assaulted if you have a disability. Also there are boys and men who are sexually assaulted (I am one, who survived that).
Endless videos trying to convince I’m autistic. Or that I have ADHD. Or that I’m some kind of sociopath.
And never anything to do with depression, which I do have.
What do i do???!! Im 44 and ive hidden all my autism all my life. Ive realized autism makes sense out of ALL the embarrassing things noone cud ever understand about me all my life. Even my siblings who knows/knew i was a weird ass kid/teen/adult and riddled with fear anxiety OCD hyperness and ticks. They roll their eyes at me explaining the things ive hidden because id hidden with all my might. I cant do things normal people can! I CANT do normal things from being overwhelmed with fear and embarrassment. I’m ve been putting myself to sleep immediately after work with sleep aids for 5 yrs. They dont even believe that. Abd my brother who has never recognized his extreme oddities of this mental blindness has lived with me! He has to be something. He doesn’t recognize,see or hear ANYTHING around him. Its mind boggling hes never realized hes unaware of EVERYTHING around him, in front of him,under his feet etc. what do i do? My mother helped me hide my oddness and never spoke to my siblings about the real truth about me and has recently past. She is the only way ive been able to survive and do the things i cudnt. I have panic attacks even when my phone rings. Cant check emails, self isolation for 7 yrs now other than work. Help. I have no money for health care nor cud i even make an appointment. I cant do things. I still have to use GPS to where ive worked a yr and a half and they dont believe thats true! Im obviously autistic it makes so much sense. Im not lazy or im mentally disabled and terrified.
u look like a tunneling new yorker
No idea what this is but I laughed nonetheless.