My response to "You're good at everything" is "Nope, I only do things I'm good at." I'm terrible at lots of things but I avoid those things, especially in a public setting.
This goes for me too. Same with knowledge when people say I'm a "know it all". Nope, I just speak up when they're talking about something I know things about. Otherwise I just stay quiet. I noticed NTs just say things, so I've been trying to be wrong when I talk sometimes too (talk about things I don't know about). It's weird though 😅
came down here to say this! it's so true. i don't try things unless i am alone and i dont do them around/with others if i am not good at it. i will also keep quiet if i dont know a lot about a topic being talked about. id rather say nothing than be incorrect haha
Same, I was called "Miss Know It All" and they celebrated when I would fail. I felt like I couldn't win. A lot of my identity was wrapped up in being the smart/talented kid. I felt ashamed when I won and when I wasn't good at something. Life is better now.
At school they used to call me the walking talking dictionary. I was just excited about learning and sharing knowledge with other people but it did always get taken in the spirit it was intended which I think is incredibly sad
That is a lot to juggle. The childhood years seem to be the worst! Thankfully our childhood is short and we have more adulthood years that offer more control.
That is a lot to juggle. The childhood years seem to be the worst! Thankfully our childhood is short and we have more adulthood years that offer more control.
Wow! One of the MAJOR catastrophic events in my childhood was in first grade. There was a daily game of marbles at recess that I watched from the sidelines. The boys were very noisy and competitive about this game. I finally got my mom to buy me a bag of marbles and after another week of watching and practicing at home, I joined the game. That day I came home with ALL of the marbles. When I proudly told my mom she came to school with me the next day and made me give back all the marbles I had won. I was devastated. I had watched how to play, learned the rules, practiced on my own and WON them fair and square. Since then when ever I’m told I’m too competitive I just stop playing. Or stop playing to win, even intentionally loosing at games I’m really good at. (Scrabble) Edit: I want to emphasize that I was in first grade and most of the kids I beat that day were 4th and 5th graders. My ability to hyper focus on the game was my super power. That the overwhelming joy of being really good at something was met with such a huge backlash was in hindsight a major impediment to my future lack of striving in certain areas.
People get triggered over the slightest amount of pride, or precieved to be pride but it doesn't sound like pride was your intention, you were still just a kid at the time. You don't have to stop doing what you love as long as your not prideful, and I don't believe you are. Of course, each parent is different. Some parents overpraise their kids, others don't pay attention and others can feel threatened by their kids' success.
I'm so sorry. My mom did something similar with me at a birthday party. I think she wanted to protect me. It hurt so much to be criticised by her, but I think she did it out of love for me, and I'm sure your mom did too
The message “The people who know me the best love me and accept me for who I am” made me cry. The reality is that this isn’t true for me. I hope I find people like that someday
Me too. I believe I have an idea. If you are uncomfortable with the people you are with and your past self, but you don't have people who can accept the new vision of yourself, it means you are halfway there. To reach your goal and find people who accept your new self, you must first accept it yourself. In that case, sadness should describe regret about the current situation, not because you tell yourself it is impossible to find people who accept you for who you are in the future. After all, it depends on your power as a creator. Please write a story where you love and accept yourself, no matter how hard it is for you to believe in that because of your traumatizing experiences in the past.
My shame trigger is crying when I feel strong emotions. I used to be made fun of for being a cry baby or a drama queen or whatever, when I couldn't control my (unidentified) emotional dysregulation. To this day I cry when I'm mad or sad or happy... it's sometimes infuriating for obvious reasons, but when I'm angry I feel shame over it, and I don't know how to stop.
There's a lot of broken neurotypical people out there thinking that people cry because they are manipulative instead of recognizing their own trust issues. Shame should be on them, not you.
Same, I can rarely identify strong emotions but when I feel them I always cry and I can't stop. These emotions come out of nowhere and completely overwhelm my reality. I'm epileptic too and if I fight it too hard I can cause a seizure. So I have to cry it out. At a restaurant? Excuse myself to the bathroom,have a good cry and maybe an edible from my purse.😂 I have lost family members over this though, which reinforces the shame feeling. It's a hideous cycle 😫
I have dealt with shame since I can remember. It was made worse through childhood abuse and then from spousal abuse. In my marriage I had to “dumb myself down” to avoid outshining my husband. I’m out of the abuse now but still trying to unlearn these negative behaviors I adopted to survive.
I absolutely relate to this! The comments like “you’re so much better than me” and “I wish I was as good as you” make me feel so guilty. My empathy gets triggered and I feel like I’m supposed to console you rather than celebrate my success. I’m a natural artist and I hold myself back from creating because of this exact feeling of shame. Thank you for making this video, Paul!
I totally relate! I have a memory from grade school where my school would have us swap teachers for different subjects and I didn't finish my art project so I was sent to another classroom where all the students were using my work as a reference. From then on people always would use these phrases when It took work and skill to get there. I would always tell them it just takes practice but I was always at an unattainable level of skill then my peers. I even met a famous illustrator that said I had displayed more talent then he had at my age at the time. But because I've been so good at art my whole life, I don't ever get praise or engagement like others that have just picked it up. I stopped creating as much now, especially with the algorithms now..
Oh my gosh, I feel like I could have written this. Those innocent little comments made me feel so bad for being good at things. I really want to stop holding myself back.
I remember loving tumbling (cartwheels, acrobatics, etc) in the park when I was younger. It was so much fun and freeing. Then someone yelled that I was "showing off" and since then (over 50 years ago), I have always been afraid to put myself out there "too big". I would hide to do my fun stuff, or stop myself from doing fun stuff in front of other people. It is terribly restricting and sad. I perform on stage (dance and musicals) now and that is ok, because that is where you are "supposed to" perform, but trying to practice in a situation where NTs don't expect it brings bad looks.
That’s sucks, why are people so mean?! I remember I a girl when I was little who could do somersaults, and I could not, but I was so fascinated and mesmerized by her! I wanted her to do it again and again! We both had fun, I enjoyed the show just like when you go to a show to watch, and she enjoyed performing for me. Why are people so negative.. wow..
What I find strange is that when outgoing people do fun stuff or do something really crazy…that’s ok and socially acceptable I really feel you on that one because when we try to do it…it just seems as though they are disturbed and offended by it because we think differently I know how you really feel because I’ve been there 😐
Sherry: That is public shaming! The person who said it should be ashamed of themselves, but don't, they don't care and don't even remember anymore. So what I don't get....why are we all holding on to these memories that when we recall them, it's like reverting back to that exact moment and you relive those feelings again in your skin. But now we're older. Why can't we see those younger experiences through older eyes now? Why do these things continue to affect us like it is happening now? And one feels the bite of shame as if it were guilt. But nothing was done that was wrong. It was just someone else "publicly shaming" us to make us feel wrong...to make a cheap joke, at our expense. Unfortunately, we have to believe, some people are just mean, they do mean and unjust things that have nothing to do with me, although it involved my experience. No cause and affect. That person said something about you, but you did not cause what they said. What causes that is their ignorance, or jealousy, or prejudice or being taught to be a jerk, it's destructive competing. Oh for a world where people were taught to work together, instead of competing against everyone. Someone actually thinks that they are "getting ahead" or "winning". We are talking about life here, life is not a game, but games can be metaphors for life. I wish people would just play nice. Winning is a myth in the mind of a perverted world.
I didn't care about winning at everything. However, after I turned forty, I started reviewing past situations in which I behaved inappropriately, and I'm ashamed that I didn't realize it at the time. My shame is all about inappropriate behavior and lack of social skills.
oh shame has been the main feeling throughout my entire life, and only recently i started understanding it deeper and trying to find ways to deal with it. the timing of this video is beyond perfect, can't wait to hear what you're gonna share
I was diagnosed with Asperger’s in 2012. I sometimes feel deep, intense shame over the embarrassing, foolish things I’ve done over the years. I feel they’re not the “normal” embarrassing things that most everyone does wrong but far worse and the frequency is much more. I cringe internally sometimes and wish life had a restart button, only I’d know then what I do now. I feel that I should have known better and am stupid (sorry for the ableist slur).
Thank you so much for this video Paul. As a little girl I was always rejected, laughed at, ridiculed and isolated for wanting to learn and understand - what I now know were very abstract and complex topics. I didn't know to behave like a "normal" girl and I was completelly unaware of how different I actually was. As I got older my personality seemed to be very attracttive to men and a terrible threat to women. I never bothered to mask as it never ever worked. I remember trying to hard at the very beginning of every school start to be quiet, not talk too much or laugh, only to FAIL and quickly revert to my own loud, unaware self. My shame trigger is my personality. I was always loved and wanted because of "my fantastic personality" but also excluded from important aspects of life. I have failed so much, I have been so rejected and avoided because of my personality. I was feared by other women because their men would "fall in love with my charm". I never even thought in those terms but I was terribly hated for something I just couldn't help. I have spent long periods of my life avoiding people, isolating myself because of this.I understand you so well Paul, you are amazing and highly skilled and you love improving. Your trigger seems similar to mine, you are so good at "doing" - I am so good at "being" if that makes sense. It is a terrible shame, because I now think that people will think I'm just bragging.
I totally 'get' all that! You are not alone. I always made resolutions to be quiet & 'hide my light under a bushel' for fear of annoying people with my knowledge, enthusiasm, openness, excitement, eagerness etc but always kept forgetting & then feeling terrible when men reacted positively & women feared me. But I'm totally harmless & just long to be free to be me, with no hidden agenda, unself-conscious & eager, doing my very best, like when I was as a child.
@@blackbird365 , exactly that. It's a deep set fear we live with - especially women - when we can't be ourselves, but then again we can't help but being who we are. I have been constantly and completelly misunderstood as flirty simply because I am enthusiastic, open and get really excited about certain topics (I am an academic interested in the social sciences of Criminology and Psychology). There is not a flirty bone in my body, but sadly too many people misunderstand and I end up feeling "wrong". As I got older, I really embraced the aging process and I'm finally no longer a threat and no longer exposed to men who think I want something. I wish I had a good advice for you, but all I can say is that I wish I had focused a little more on choosing the people I surrounded myself with, so that I didn't have to experience the ignorance of the mainstream up close.
@@sandrag.7861 Yes, absolutely. One of the joys of getting older is that now I too am saf(er) from being flirted with or misunderstood as being flirty by men. With age comes freedom! I've always been v interested in academic philosophy & theology, but my attendance at university seminars, evening talks, church-related theology classes etc has always caused me problems. The single male lecturers & esp priests feared me, assuming I was chasing them - despite my showing no personal interest whatsoever besides polite friendliness & a desire to ask questions & discuss metaphysics etc. But apparently, a youngish single woman is still perceived as either easy prey or else (if you're a celibate priest) a threat. :( Finding anyone, never mind enough people to 'surround myself with' is impossible in my country village. My best friends have died, so I make do with online chats in my special-interest groups. Thank you for the chat! I really appreciate being believed & accepted, even briefly. Best wishes. :)
@@blackbird365 Thank you too for this brief moment of understanding, it is as you say, being believed and accepted if even for a moment. To me it has alot to do with being taken seriously enough, as most of the occasions when I've expressed this issue I get sideways looks and comments such as "are you honestly complaining about getting POSITIVE attention!?". I am so grateful for Pauls channel and the ways he explains the hardships in a constructive manner and how this makes it possible meeting people like you. I wish you all the best ❤
I completely relate to everything you’ve said. Sadly, I have allowed the envy of other women to stifle me in so many ways. I’m becoming more courageous and confident now . God knows my true heart and intentions and he would not bless me so much if I were as haughty and arrogant as these women and even a few men like to accuse me of being. Of course I am not claiming to be most humble. I definitely can improve in being modest and humble, but at least im conscious of that need.
I really relate to this! I have an excellent memory for words: poems, hymns, song lyrics (all the verses!) plays, passages from literature, things I was taught verbally as a child etc, & I retain & can recall things easily after not coming across them for decades. But I always have to hide or disguise my natural tendency & absolute LONGING to join in with songs & plays, to finish quotations, to speak along with passages & recite poems, because people have always called me weird, gifted, a genius (which I AM NOT!) & also a show-off, attention-seeking, supercilious etc (which again I AM NOT!) They roll their eyes & dismiss me if ever I risk a short quotation. So I always have to suppress my desire to enjoy sharing wonderful, meaningful words, lyrics & apt quotations. I have to dumb down when speaking too, & censor any polysyllabic words or subordinate clauses, adverbial phrases etc to avoid the shame of being better able to express myself that I ought to be. So I can never enjoy or share any of my vast, rich, inner treasure trove of language & knowledge for fear of being shamed & misunderstood. No philosophical speculation is 'allowed' in 'normal life' either. Sob. I never guessed that all my younger life's eager learning with joy would be such a painful disadvantage or make me so desperately lonely. I recite poems when walking in the country alone. At least the cows, birds & sheep seem to like it. :)
I can identify with you blackbird though I have not mastered keeping my mouth shut to allow others to share their knowledge of the topic too. I have been called a know it all, a show-off and an attention seeker among other not too nice names. I am 71 years old and have recently discovered why I am so different from others.
@@genevaodom3283 Aww, it's hard, isn't it?! I often fail to keep quiet & refrain from bursting out with some piece of knowledge or a quotation too. I have no diagnosis & don't trust anyone who hasn't known me for decades to really understand my differences (which often don't show, because I seem to mask so well. Until I slip up! :\ ) You sound really genuine & interesting to listen to & share ideas etc. Best wishes & welcome to being 'different' from boring, empty-headed people with poor memory! We have our inner treasure troves to enjoy. :)
@@ZabavaThePower Thanks. But I would dearly love to find even 1 like-minded person, never mind a whole 'community'! Chance would be a fine thing. I know nobody articulate or well-read in poetry & literature or even remotely interested in anything except food, clothes, pets, gardens, popular culture. Where to find anyone, out here in the country? Thanks for replying. x
I can truly relate to the shame associated with winning. More specifically for me I don’t like public accolades and a lot of attention for my accomplishments. It makes me very uncomfortable. I do fear the jealousy of others. I’m highly empathetic and I always worry that my “win” will make others feel bad. I prefer secret, one-on-one acknowledgements and praise. Even that can be uncomfortable. I feel like an imposter because I never feel good enough. I know part of that comes from my traumatic childhood. I was undiagnosed with Autism and ADHD so I was constantly criticized and controlled in my very socially rigid household. It was a very proper environment. To this day I always doubt myself and feel inadequate. Finally I’ll add that being successful for me also adds additional pressure to replicate it or maybe even do better. I’m terrified of failure. This was a great video. I want to watch it a few more times so it can sink in. Thank you!
That part with raising the expectations to a level where failure eventually will be unavoidable is what drives me crazy. Even if I don't fail this time, I'll do at some point, and as a child, I wasn't allowed to fail, even if it wasn't always expressed explicitly.
DTrainsWife01. Really relate to the middle of your comment, also undiagnosed (until age 72), very rigid family structure, huge amounts of strict discipline. Due to high IQ being recognised, family expectations very high, way beyond my actual level of ability to function, so constant disapproval. Let's face it, we aren't good at everything, anyway. As a child I discovered I appeared to have a much more developed conscience than my peers which included the need to please others especially the family, to make them proud of me. This led to an intense awareness of shame in so many different areas when I couldn't achieve what was expected of me. Such a relief to be diagnosed & realise I actually did the best I could.
I so relate. And I understand it this way: We were told about competition once, it was demonstrated regularly, and we performed as instructed. No one articulated to us that there might be nuances, and some of us (Aspies and Autistics 💪🏼😊) took a long time to realize our rule actually had a dial no one mentioned that we should use. I know I learned about life through the creation of a set of rules, not as much from human contact. Negotiating life, running a race or building a one-woman business, has never been first about flowing with other people. It’s been moving toward an established goal, with other human involvement the next step, like putting muscle on a skeleton. We’re brilliant and productive in so many ways (I too have been ashamed about how I win awards in the first year of whatever endeavor I enter - art, sales, community service, journalism), but it’s hard to fit in socially because our skills (rational before social) were developed in the opposite order. I am often sad about it - even though I’ve done a lot of work understanding myself for decades, and now, 69, I think I’ve forgiven myself of about everything, and enjoy socializing now and then. (I’m a happy quasi-hermit.) Power to us all.
I too read this first, thank you for your insight. Working towards a ME goal, like acknowledging my existence and that I have basic needs that I haven't been meeting. Like I just became aware that I am important to people regardless of my ability to meet their expectations or needs. Maybe I'll actually figure out more now. Weird 🦋
I feel you all. Same situation. Though I had a mental "break" 13y ago (trauma‐induced) & it stopped me in my tracks. This neurodivergent brain is my blessing & my curse & it often pushes away those I love most. I'm sooo sick of being left out of the human race - especially as I'm an activist for civil rights. So I feel there's such a chasm ‐ that I'm often pushed away by the very species I fight for the fair treatment of. Apologies are my forté... ES.❤💔
I have a somewhat similar story. When I was growing up, my friends used to call me an "encyclopedia" because I had a tendency to know something about everything (in other words, my brain is just filled with fun facts about the world). They'd joke that I could explain any topic, and would often put me in front of strangers to demonstrate. I remember once, we were running a booth for ecology club and when we asked our audiance of younger kids if they had any questions, and one of them snarkily asked how the universe was created? So my friends pushed me to the front and shruged at me to start talking, which I did. I realize that kind of sounds like bullying, but its actually a good memory of mine; the kid's jaw dropped when I started talking about rudimentry information on the big bang, and it made my friends smile. What did bother me was when they'd use it justify excluding me. There was always this under current of "oh, we didn't tell you about x thing because we didn't think you'd enjoy it since you're _so_ smart," so I started to consiously dumb myself down at a young age. I interalized that knowing things was fine when people _asked,_ but it was somehow "rude" when they didn't, and also that if I wanted to hang out with people I needed to restrain myself and enthusiastically like what they liked. Not just like it--I had to _enthusiastically_ like it, and appear very very excited for it to be genuine enough so that I could be included, which to this day is probably one of the biggest energy burn masking behaviors for me. Then, just typical aspie stuff in addition to that I guess. Like, never have I ever understood why telling someone they're wrong is a social faux paus? When I'm factually incorrect about something, I want to KNOW so I can not be incorrect anymore, but apparently you don't do that in casual conversation. Anyway, to this day, I'm always scared that people are going to think I'm trying to show off, or upstage them if they mention a topic and I chime in to deepen, dispute, or add to their point.
OMG! I hate competitions of all kinds because of this. Unfortunately, other people see competition where I don't as well. My biggest shame issues are surrounding communication. I'm hyperlexic and because I was reading adult books as a child, and often old books, my language style is odd. I'm okay with taking the blame for miscommunications, but others are often too embarrassed to even let on that they don't understand what I said. I don't think I'm better for using "big words," but often I'm struggling enough with the social situation that I just use whatever words in my vocabulary mean what I'm trying to say. It's actually a functional deficit at play, but because people think I'm trying to "sound smart" I get accused of talking down to people or get blindsided by some other accusation to change the subject. This just doubles my shame. We have done ourselves no favors as a society by shifting from a belief that competition is a good thing and not winning is okay to the "everybody gets a trophy" attitude that doesn't give children the chance to be the best at something and also be mediocre or terrible at other things and realize that it's all okay. A kid who is uncoordinated but an expert on birds doesn't need to get a trophy for running a race, he should be asked to do a special project to help teach his peers about birds. Imagine how much happier we would all be if we were supported in doing what we enjoy and what we are good at!
Competition is part of culture, it's like consumerism. Very little is taught about working together in groups. More is taught about working against others to get ahead. If it's more difficult for people on the spectrum to be in groups, imagine this in a culture bent toward competitive thinking. Add to this the drive to concentrate on a specific skill....to overachieve. So with the person on the spectrum, I feel like if I'm in a competitive situation, in games, there is no limit, you want to win so much, or the drive is there, and it's toxic, because it is against the other person and not with the other person. So why is it normal to compete? I hate competing in games.. it makes me want to avoid games, competition is destructive and not creative. If a fun loving playful attitude can be achieved, then games are fun and healthy and bring people together. There is nothing wrong with autistic people, maybe it's the competitive culture that is wrong, the culture that shames the other, and teases...these are forms of competing too. But still, even knowing all this, one can still feel ashamed.
I have internalized shame due to my upbringing, and I often recognize it as so halfway through. I was also taught that succeeding is not merely “perfectly” completing the given task but rather overachieving (e.g. receive 💯 + bonus points + basically fame). I am quite competitive, but winning/losing was more important to those who placed expectations on me. I enjoyed either, but became fearful of coming in 1st or dead last as those seem to place an unnerving amount of attention on me (real or not). If I make it to the top, people attach expectations to the rank and pressure me not to fall. If I’m behind all, people expect a good-for-nothing and avoid/reject. So even though I’m often stupidly competitive (as in I may have no chance of winning but just act on excitement), I always have to adjust myself to land somewhere in the middle. If I suck at the thing, I have to quickly work it out in my brain to pull weight somehow to just not end up all the way on the bottom. If I sense I can get to top 5, it is time to back down…because I can’t handle the aftermath. …also, I am definitely “too much” excitement-wise towards the activity. I can mask, but they can feel me radiating energy. Their attitudes often read as, “why are you so invested in this?” If I grew up in a healthy, positive manner, I believe I would be labelled “life enthusiast,” or something. But growing up the way I did, I always notice when I manage to genuinely feel “happy/positive” and remind myself to be careful because “that isn’t allowed.” Anyways, just hearing about competitiveness makes me giddy, heh! In regards to shame, I was known for being “shameless” during my childhood because I went against conventions and whatnot. Whatever came naturally, whatever made sense that wasn’t tied to “bs” logics, I roared with freedom of self. And then came punishment/correction. So I kicked that free spirit into a chest, sealed it, and regularly burnt out as a lost soul. But then I found the chest recently! Without checking out your channel, I probably wouldn’t have. Thanks 🥰 and apologies if my thoughts and emotions are all over the place in this comment, haha 😅
I've been told over and over again that I'm too much; too artsy, too excited, too passionate, too eccentric, too colorful, too deep, too abstract, just too much. I'm an artist in fact, but crazy obsessed with quantum physics as well as other more obscure or niche interests. In general, everytime I think I can share some cool things I've learned, I come off as a know it all or a crazy eccentric. For many years I've walled myself off from talking about my interests with others because afterwards I'd feel exposed and embarrassed. I'm a completely non competitive person so I struggle when others feel threatened by the knowledge I share. I just want to share. I'll never understand. I've been trying to understand for 52 years.
This shame trigger around winning actually applies to me :) I was one of the best students in elementary school and was bullied for it a lot, the problem was that I didn't know how to cope with it, because school was just so easy for me that I could give the right answers even if I was half asleep. When I got to high school, I was under the impression that I was a bad person and definitely would be rejected if I stayed at this high level of knowledge, so I tried to downplay it. The peer pressure to fit in started to increase, the pressure to get good grades increased, math still was easy for me, but the other subjects became increasingly difficult, because I wasn't paying attention anymore, I was just so overwhelmed, because I was constantly trying to figure out how my peers wanted me to be, so I would be able to fit in. (I hope it makes sense, I'm just really tired right now) My grades dropped by a lot, then some of my bullies switched schools and I relaxed a little bit and got better grades again. Now I'm in an apprentice ship and get just straight A's without trying really hard and I was really worried and ashamed of it in the beginning, but my friends don't care and I just trie to help them with the stuff they struggle with. It helps a lot that I don't have to dump myself down to fit in with my friends. With sports it's actually the same thing, so yes I can relate a lot :) (and I should definitely sleep now, I have to get up in less than six hours... I hope you understand everything, my brain feels foggy and English is not my first language. I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone with this shame thing around winning)
I'm also afraid of "winning!" I was singled out for being "gifted" and the teachers thought they were helping me but other kids teased me and eventually estranged me for being a "freak" because I excelled in measured activities. I'm so happy you shared this. Thank you a thousand times.
I really relate to shame but not in winning game situations. I have my own world and often common sense didn’t enter my mind. Not that I’m unkind don’t care or anything, I just have a whole world in my head! Recently at age 45, I realised what I have been masking to be accepted and unknowingly I was telling myself that I was not good enough. But if I acted my true self I was not really accepted even by people who I liked very much so I experienced lots of rejections!
I downplay my intelligence in general, to be on the level of people around me. It's not that strong shame that I may have with some other deep things but to relate it to shame of being better that is my version. You get told when you are not keeping up or performing as expected, and ironically when you do better than others somehow they find a way to make you feel bad for that as well. I already have strong empathy so I don't want others to feel bad or less, having felt that a lot myself, and then people reacting negatively makes me minimize even more. A common thing for people to say is "You think too much". I could reply, "You think too little" or bring up the fact that all my thinking is what aids my success in life, it's my one actual advantage. I'm not talking "think too much" in negative terms but just thinking, analyzing etc. Why can't people just recognize and appreciate your strengths, not make them a bad thing as well. As if I don't have enough disadvantages.. Of course the flip side is when they do recognize them, and completely forget about your limitations. Then you feel bad for having disadvantages, as you hold yourself to this standard of perfection others set for you. It's like it has to be either or, you can't be recognized as a fully dimensional person.
My old friends always told me i think too deep, but surface trivia always bored me and despite me trying to be someone other than me, it never worked and i am so glad. It has taken me a long time to be able to celebrate me and my extra gifts.
I think hearing "you think too much" or "you overthink" is among the worst things I've been told when I am voicing my anxiety and looking for advice. Like you said it's sort of "what I do" (i.e. think), or what anyone would do, if they cared enough about an issue or whatnot - what else am I supposed to do? Help me to think about it differently or just shut up about it and just say you don't know or care enough about me and my problems. It's such a weird thing to say - it's like saying stop being sad or happy. Excuse the vent but both of my parents just said this to me this evening^^
@@TheDavveponken No you're exactly right, it's a weird way for people to react to voicing how you feel and wanting some input. It's good we're not alone in finding that puzzling, and not a good way to treat anyone. They don't seem to know better...
I was told I overthink a few weeks ago and instead of standing up for myself I apologised, when in reality I don't other think at all. In fact in times where I've told myself not to overthink I got SAd by a work boss, got into an abusive relationship with someone else, because where I saw red flags, I assumed he was just short tempered and anxious etc... I will continue to think, processing is my protection.
My main feeling of shame has always been around not having any friends or having very few friends. I always felt it was something I should hide or not talk about, for example with coworkers. Growing up my mom was always trying to get me out to social events. I remember one eighth grade dance/party where I felt so incredibly awkward and talked to a teacher the whole time. There was a sense that people felt sorry for me. But, I've gotten to a place now (just in the past few years) at age 38 that I have a very close group of three friends and have also started to really enjoy solo travel. I have built up a community for myself of lots of people who care about me, including my religious group and family. I've tried desperately my whole life to blend in and not stand out in any way, so I can relate to not wanting to win or seem good at everything. Now I'm learning how to just be me.
The cutting down tall poppies and the shame that comes with being "above average" seems to be an Anglo thing (at least among the cultures with which I am familiar). Moving to Asia, working in Asian and German-run organisations of various stripes has been immensely freeing for me because among these people excellence is prized rather than derided.
I'm also an engineer. Regarding shame around winning, not really, however a long term business contact who has been at various times a client and a collaborator said to me, after I upset a client by being too direct 'You've not been making people feel stupid again, have you?' Like you, I value growth and see failure as an opportunity to learn and improve. To me, being told the uncomfortable truth is liberating, yet many experience it as humiliation. It is a pity we are not able to process these cues easily and have to use our logical intelligence to second guess and compensate for shortcomings in our emotional intelligence Many neurotypicals don't share the growthn mindset and need the dopamine hit of success and / or peer approval to persevere. I wonder if that's why we have a better chance at becoming competent at whatever we put our mind to? We don't get out off by failure in the same way, have perseverance and drive through with greater focus. My guitar teacher has a no negativity rule. Whilst he gives instruction for Improvement I've never seen him criticise a student. That's something I'm trying to adopt.
Working through childhood shame triggers with my therapist is one of the small things that helped me realize I’m autistic. He had me doing it because of anxiety, and said that he wasn’t going dive into the why or my anxiety but I might discover it on my own. When I got to that emotional spot with child me and I started often saying “you didn’t know and no one knew to tell you” about a lot of social situations and things that made me not “fit in” I started seeing a pattern and between that, training I took for work on autism, and finally when I told my husband I couldn’t go to church because I no longer knew the rules (I didn’t realize that was why until I said it out loud when I was starting to feel overwhelmed one day).
This hit home. In primary school, I was a stellar speller who spent hours perfecting my cursive handwriting on every assignment. I won a school spelling bee one year and at around the same time a teacher called attention to my perfect handwriting in front of the entire class. I was teased by classmates and utterly mortified! From that point on, I made sure to misspell one word on every spelling test and don’t remember ever truly trying my best at anything after that. The notion that the people that matter most and love me will except me as I am is simply not true for me. At 66 years old, I hope that ship hasn’t sailed.
@@JChurchua I also recently told my family that I'm certain about being on the ASD spectrum. Randomly discovering these videos was a light bulb moment. I'm so grateful for Paul and Aspergers On The Inside. 👍
My shame trigger in high school was that people found me interesting because I was a "novelty item" compared to other people - but once people figured out how I was that they would realize I was just interested in different things than them, and then they would decide I was annoying and leave me. I have no idea where this idea came from, because as far as I know, it never actually happened. Quite the contrary: when friend groups split, I was always "allowed" to be on both sides (even while others were pressured to choose. So I lost friendships very little. Maybe the mechanics of friendship were just so inscrutable to me that I didn't know how they actually started or ended. But that trigger seems so much more pointed and specific.
I feel you ! I always felt like jumping between different groups in school, being accepted by my non-judgmental, kind nature, being diplomatic, never taking one side's, position. I never had once fixed group of school friends, but rather floating around from group to group, I assume on a rather superficial level. I am still like that as an adult, having a huge circle of acquaintances and friends, but forming really deep connections and keeping those friends emotionally satisfied and nurtured is very hard for me. Its as if I was running away from close connections, despite I want them..
Gosh I needed this video right now. Currently dealing with shame caused by executive dysfunction while lacking official support due to lack of diagnosis (been on the waiting list for at least a year now...) I make plans of things I truly wanna do, want to play Hollow Knight for my boyfriend to watch, want to reconnect with some friends who I haven't seen in years... yet I can't because I never allowed myself to recover from a burnout that hit me before the pandemic started. It just feels like I am such a bad person for not doing the things I truly, genuinely want to do, because other things are getting in the way (such as living with a construction site also for a couple years and the economic strain the pandemic caused)
First, I think you were incredibly brave to share with us such a deeply upsetting experience for you. Second, I would have done the exact same thing in your place. If someone would have asked me to race In would have done my best regardless of the ability of the other person. I wouldn't have considered the social aspect of it either. I wasn't socially savvy enough in primary or high school to realize that maybe I shouldn't be so good. I was proud to be the best at what I did. Though, I have to admit that I wasn't well linked back then. I do remember that when I lettered in music as a freshman, my music directors said that I could have the metals and the letter, but I was not allowed to have the letterman's jacket yet. I had no idea why. Now I understand. Because it would not have gone well for me with the other kids if I would have. So, the music director was shielding me from that. I didn't really understand that until now. And it still seems ridiculous to me. But as an adult, I do remember playing a particular board game with a friend. I beat him hopelessly every time we played. He eventually didn't want to play with me anymore because of that. And I was very confused because it didn't seem right to me to play poorly on purpose. And my friend didn't want me to either. So, I tried to teach him how to play better. And that worked to some extent. But I was still too much better than he was. And he did end up not playing with me anymore. I didn't feel ashamed, though. Just confused. And I missed being able to play to my full potential like I could with the person who I originally learned from. It is really too bad that some people make fun of others for being good at what they do. I have dated several guys who were by far the best at everything they did. And they were proud of it and celebrated for it. I wish that it was considered okay for more people to truly excell.
@@joycebrewer4150 That is a tricky situation, isn't it. One of my friends beats the socks off of everyone in every game he plays. Yet everyone still wants to play with him. I wonder why. He is most definitely on the autistic spectrum. (So am I. ) And yet I have no idea how he has managed to make and retain such good feiendships for so many years. Even though he consistently beats them at everything. He does praise his opponents a lot for what they do well. Maybe that's it. I always felt like it would seem condescending to do that. But it somehow works for him.
I completely relate to the Tall Poppy syndrome (thank you for the shorthand name for it!), though I don't love losing like you do. My fear of standing out is hard to avoid because my vocabulary gives me away. I intimidate people with how articulate I am, the words I use, my skill with wordplay (which is baked into my sense of humor), the way I employ metaphors and analogies or make references to literature and mythology, and other habits that put me on a different language level. It's difficult to do the "assess and adapt" thing with vocabulary while still holding a conversation and expressing myself authentically, especially about something that animates me.
I relate a lot, you put in words something I felt most of my life but couldn't articulate well. I always felt like people would reject me for being too good in casual competitions like video games or things in school like a math contest or a spelling bee. And I started to sabotage myself and downplay my abilities to the point where I let the others win. Now I feel like I can't "give everything" in most things without feeling shame and that affected, and still does, my potential in so many ways. Thanks for the video. I also love being free to try my best against people who is way better than me.
I used to get mocked about a lot of stuff, but the size of my vocabulary was the dumbest thing. I wish I could say I had a funny and articulate comeback, but I was left literally speechless.
I mainly have it around social awkwardness issues, saying or doing the “wrong” thing. And not being good enough at things. But, I do relate to some degree on being too good too. Almost anything art related I catch onto very quickly. I’ve been better than my peers since I was young at drawing and painting. Even now, amongst my friends and most in my community, I am better at art. Compared to other good artists, 😂 no. But generally, I am. I’m also fairly good at pattern making in sewing, knitting, etc. So, when people are complementing me to others I can feel very awkward, because I know I’m not good at so many other things. And especially when they say (with that familiar groany, almost annoyed sigh) “Yeah, we all hate her, she’s SOOOOO good….” It feels so backhanded a compliment I feel guilty for being good at it, like I’ve done something wrong by practicing and working at it for over 30 years and I’m better than they are. It’s really annoying. I don’t do the same to them, “Yeah, she’s SOOO good at having normal conversations with people that turn out well. I hate her so much.” 🙄😂 So, my shame is being not “average” lol. Either not good enough or too good.
Watching to try and understand my brilliant children better and modify anything I can to make their life’s easier . We live in a small country town and everyone knows they have autism through word of mouth or my kiddos just being themselves. I personally couldn’t care less BUT I hate when I hear my kiddos being referred to as those autism kids rather than their names . I won’t stand for it . I find if my daughter ever does win , comments are well so she should look at all the therapy help she gets or the others let her win . The other kids don’t seem to care and are just happy for her . She struggles to be out the door , in a sensory rich environment, how she manages to compete and even win at sports is beyond me . She does require a full day in bed in a dark room afterwards but never wants to stop trying . As for the other parents, I’ll pull up those comments straight away . I’m not shy anymore I don’t have that option . My kiddos have to come first . Love your videos so much to relate too , keep doing the great work, desperately needed.
Oh, Man, That shame triggered by winning, woof, that hit me differently knowing that others have it too.... and the name calling ... you know every thing ...
I definitely get it. When I'm playing football I always downplay my ability because I want people to like me. Growing up I had a similar thing where I was good at most things (at least academically and with sports), people had this idea that I was arrogant (or at least a few friends would try and joke with me about it). And it's kind of lasted to present day of being an adult because I definitely feel a shame of like, doing well/looking good/attractive/appearing confident, (and if I do achieve things, I definitely don't talk about it much or write on my social media about it, in case it's perceived as being arrogant). I see other people celebrating their wins and writing stuff and it just makes me feel a bit annoyed that I feel I can't do that
I completely resonate with the winning trigger. During high school, I was really good at art - that meant I just kept getting the top score every single year. In reality, It was my special interest, I retained everything like a sponge, and I practiced daily, because I would literally have meltdowns if I couldn't draw. I would even draw on the bus to and from school. One day, I scored 100% on the art history exam and my teacher announced it to everyone. I said, "oh," in the most deadpan voice... everyone laughed, but to me, I desperately did not want anyone to know. I still feel the deep shame now, right tight in my chest, where it hurts the most. Oh but did they know. For years and years, I was bullied relentlessly by my peers in art. One of my 'friends' said that I didn't deserve the spot, behind my back, to my other friends. It got to the point where, in year 12, ranking 1st in my class for HSC art, I attempted to take my own life. My grades were just consistently so high that there was a big gap between myself and everyone else, and I felt so fucking scared. I considered smashing my hands with a hammer so I couldn't paint anymore. Winning, and winning by a lot, was dangerous. I was already really isolated (did not have a good home life). My internal rank dropped to 2nd in my school. I lost the award for year 12. When the externally marked HSC grades came back, I still ranked first in the exam and major work. Nobody cared I tried to kill myself. They would openly mock and isolate me in art class. They probably thought it was funny. They would laugh at me when I would start to cry and uncontrollably scratch and hurt myself in class, because I was so triggered and overwhelmed. It took 10+ years to feel safe holding a pencil again, now I am making art again and feeling safe. I don't want to win at art. Art shouldn't even be something to win at. I became a scientist instead. Yes, there's competitive people here, but I try to work in collaborative spaces. My current job is all about working as a team together to get the best job done. Nobody makes fun of me for being good at science. In high school, I was bad at science, I never 'won', because I had ADHD and dropped out of standard math in year 11. Maybe that's why it's easier to be a scientist today? I don't know. Anyway, this video hit really hard. Playing with your left hand... I would try to hide my abilities, beg the teacher not to share my grades, beg to hide my rank, but ... I don't think anyone understood.
Thanks so much for sharing that. In some contexts, I do feel a bit of the "shame of winning", but more recently, I've been struggling a lot more with the opposite feeling of not good enough and not having enough awards, accomplishments, etc. It is a nice reminder to know that those doing a lot better than me might have their own struggles as well. And yes, the reminder that what was true in the past might not be as relevant now has been important for me. Hope those triggers have been bothering you less more recently!
That's an interesting shame trigger and I can understand how it came about. If people react negatively to anything we do as ND, we do something else in the hopes they react better. I'm glad you've realized this, though, because that's exhausting.
Oh gosh, I have the same shame. I was relentlessly teased for being good at things. Then in college, when I kept beating my boyfriend over and over in a video game, I burst into tears. Both of us were so confused! But I realized then that winning excessively is a trigger for me. Unfortunately, failing is a trigger too since being “successful” was so wrapped up in my identity by other people.
Yes, I felt like that in high school. Particularly in mathematics I was so good that I didn't know how to handle that admiration/rejection it would provoke. At the university level it wasn't that bad.
Wow, I can relate. As I feel shame when I do better than others. I don't want to make others feel jealous or feel inferior to me. I am 60 and still dislike competitive situations. Thank u for sharing.
I so relate to the "too good at everything" shame... Growing up my sister (late ADHD diagnosis) was constantly compared with me (late autism diagnosis) in every single way where I was "better". I was the "good" kid because I never acted up (had so many creative hobbies that kept me occupied), I was always incredibly successful at sports, school and university and hyper-focussed on my chosen career path while my sister had her troubles keeping up her interest in a topic long enough to complete her education. I saw her suffer so much and she also told me at least once that her suffering was my fault. I severely limited some things I did enjoy (especially sports) in order to avoid this shame and her suffering. After now starting my PhD, I keep getting the occasional "how did you study so fast, you're way to young to be a PhD student" and despite my therapy tackling also this exact topic this just kills me every time Thank you for making these amazing videos and helping me feel understood, a feeling all of us crave but hardly ever get. ❤️
I totally relate to everything you said about feeling ashamed of winning or being the best at something. I would even intentionally write down wrong answers in my exams in high school to make sure I wouldn’t have the highest grade because otherwise the teacher would always make an example of me in front of the whole class. So I always tried to get as close as possible to the average, wishing I would stay under the radar of my teacher.
I can kind of relate. I try yo avoid winning by too much because I don't want to make others feel bad when they loose. At the same time, I'm very competitive and my self worth is tied to being good/the best at things. Growing up unidentified autistic, I always knew I was somehow "weird" and "different", and desperately wanted to fit in, be "normal", not stand out. I've always been at the top of most of my classes, which obviously made me stand out. And I used to think that others didn't like me because I did good in school. So when people said things like "lena gets straight As." or "you're so smart", to me that was a bad thing so I responded with "no, last year I got a B+ in my biology test" or "no I'm not smart". I didn't realise I was accidentaly belittling others by that until my best friend told me "if you're not smart, then what does that make me?" Anyways, I really enjoyed your video, as always!
Absolutely!, I used to fear a lot their envy, and that they could hate me for that!. I would (and sometimes still will) hide my successes or other details of my life, even around people that are doing "better" than me (that could be economically, or talking about certain experiences) , but its because this also saves me from having to become the main focus of the conversation, as I may have to explain things in detail. That kind of stuff really stuns my mind.
Yes, shame has shaped much of my life. I still dwell on things that happened when I was a kid. I'm always looking back at situations obsessively and feeling shame. Not so much with winning, never had much experience with it, but I do have a feeling like I'm going to be hated when I win - like I can't handle it, out of control, like I don't know what to do if I win - I'm also more comfortable with loosing.
A couple of things have helped me a lot with shame. One is realising that social self-consciousness and shame are deeply ingrained survival mechanisms and part of being human. If I frame those feelings that way it kind of depersonalises and distances them, I can accept their presence but without worrying so much about them. The second is to realise what it looks like when a person doesn't have shame - it makes them a deeply limited and uncaring person. Some forms of shame, especially when intertwined with regret, come from deep sensitivity and caring for others and their feelings. So I can honour my caring nature while also redirecting my thinking to something constructive and self-supportive. With lots of forgiveness for my younger selves who didn't have my perspective. I actually had shame on the other side of the coin and felt I always had to excel and win at everything to prove my existence was worthwhile. I am completely over that now though, thank goodness!
My favourite Training Partner was always the guy that was significantly better than me, but also "just a student". I didn't have to feel like I had to impress him, as he was not the teacher, but I knew I can give my all and will never even come close to hurting him. Loved that so much.. Oh and I remember how proud I was when I was able to lose on purpose without my little brother noticing! His joy about winning was my win, haha. But that is way easier done with a 7 year old than with peers..
When it come to shame for me, it's probably for the fact that the only attention I got as a child was when I did something wrong, underperformed or just stood out for being different. Even as the unwitting Aspie that I was, I needed attention and reassurance from my primary caregivers and peers but mostly received discipline or ridicule when I did something wrong, didn't understand or didn't perform as expected. That's why I became a perfectionist in my chosen field and made sure anything I presented was over the top. The shame of coming up short or not being good enough was more than I could bear. At 59, perfectionism and the shame of not being good enough are still prevailing themes in my life. In many ways, I do the work that I do for the joy of it but the fear of not making a good impression still haunts me. Same goes for my personal life and personal interactions.
I have been researching into emotions / emotional intelligence etc. for more than a year now, and still this definition of shame 1:30 hits so hard and so true it is absurd (so yeah VERY well explained)
57 yrs old now and spent a lifetime trying to understand myself. Being assessed now for autism and it makes so much sense but have spent/waisted a life trying to figure this out on my own. Thanks for the insightful videos; they really are a great help.
As I listened to this presentation I realized how much I actually enjoy 'loosing'. I have never thought about it before but it certainly allows me to feel like I can genuinely am part of the group. Thanks fir your videos, I was diagnosed at 67 and finding resources like yours is very helpful
I had a very different experience with winning as a kid. Basically, I was so clueless about the reactions I was getting that I thought I was fairly good, but still somehow failing to impress. It’s not that I didn’t empathize with other kids… It’s that I thought differently and misread them. And because they thought I was an arrogant show off, they’d occasionally try to cut me down a bit by saying “You’re not so great,” and such. I’d take it at face value. So I tried even harder to win and excel at everything possible. Though to be honest, I also loved challenging myself and diving into things with my whole being. But not team sports! I avoided those. They triggered the opposite - shame over losing and failure, because I was truly terrible at them. I can’t seem to ever be medium at anything, and I now realize that’s what most neurotypicals feel comfortable with, in that context. But I didn’t understand back then. Throughout public school and even college, I collected accomplishments, accolades, sills, and talents. I was so lonely for so long, and I thought this would make me more likable, attractive, and desirable as a long-term, close friend. Boy was I ever wrong! As you said, it’s different and better as an adult. Sometimes I wish I’d understood it back then. It would have helped me and people around me in some ways. On the other hand, I never felt the need to hold back or dull my shine, and I could hyperfocus on things I loved.
thank u for heaps for this video man! im struggling alot with shame lately now im working around the public and get lots of odd comments, everytime i try to confess my shame with people they downplay it, ive never seen anyone talk about shame in autism before, thank u!!
My son was bullied in a Christian private school were I placed him because I was worried he would be bullied some way. He was the sweetest guy you could ever meet. Girls loved him a lot of time he was only boy sitting with the girls! Some was jealousy but when one set of parents decided to put their son as a type of last report because of his behaviour into the school he was able to manipulate a few to his side. His best friend was a girl and she actually threatened to get them. Thank you Paul as his mom you help me see his side of the spectrum but I still can’t get him to watch this cause I’m mom what do I know. I’m going to get him here someday.
I’m not on the spectrum, at least not that I know of, but I’ve had the same shame trigger especially as a teenager. I was a bright kid and top of my class in almost every subject at school, and I started getting a lot of stuff wrong in response to teasing and some bullying from other kids. It really helped to go to college where I wasn’t the most intelligent kid on the block.
I don't know if I'm autistic yet. I'm exploring it and I wrote out a list of things for my psychologist. It was incredible to hear you talking about games and winning. I wrote exactly that on my list. I struggle to work out how hard to try, what's trying too hard, what's insulting letting people win. It's amazing to hear someone with such similar experiences.
Please get the best out of yourself! Don’t be ashamed. If you are a lovely and kind person. Don’t hold yourself down, you have the right to shine your brightest, and enjoy. Other people feelings are THEIR unability to selflove. They should learn to love their flaws and powers, and shine in their way. Don’t let other people’s problems become yours. You can’t please everyone. People can also turn their negativity into inspiration to better themselves. Lose the ones who can’t candle your succes and embrace the one who love you any way❤
Wow that's SO awesome I didn't know that happened to other people :D Just to make sure the people around me feel secure I not only lose I actively brag about being incompetent to help the people around me feel superior hoping that then they might not want to harm me...this is so familiar it's spooky
“To this day I will check out if I feel there is a risk that I might win”, I strongly resonated with this comment 😅 I’ve never had a competitive bone in my body and I never understood why people, friends and partners have been so competitive, until I got my diagnosis. I deliberately make an effort to lose in some games. Great content, many thanks.
I'm shocked to hear that anyone else feels shame for winning. I feel this drive to make sure everyone around me feels happy. Even playing board games with my wife, I want to apologize when I win. She just wants to have fun and play a game. She doesn't want me to worry, "What if I win?" If anyone really wants to have a competition or play any kind of game, I feel terrible when I win. I really enjoy your videos. Most of the time, I can somewhat relate, but not always fully. I've never been diagnosed with autism. It's only been the last few months that I've considered it. I'm 32 now. I have two boys, and my oldest (almost 4yo) and I have been diagnosed with a genetic mutation called KMT5B Related Syndrome. 60% of those diagnosed also have autism. My oldest was recently diagnosed with "mild to moderate autism." While watching videos and reading a lot for his sake, I realized I can relate to a bit of it too. When I was in college, I was diagnosed with ADD. And if that's also accurate, it makes things a little confusing, seeing some contrasting things with my previous understanding of autism. (There is a lot more to autism than I had previously thought. A lot of different signs). If I have autism, I mask well. I do like systems and prefer doing things a certain way. But I also really like spontaneity. I would be excited to chat with people about some of these things, so I'm hoping this chat is still a little active. Like I said, I'm shocked that other people feel shame when they win. Thank you for sharing!
One of the happiest moments for my professional life was in a women in tech workshop where my team chose me to present our findings because I was (their words) "the best at speaking." I nailed it, told our story, and we were all proud. I really loved that I was winning and people wanted me to win because we were all winning together. I've been unable to find this scenario in work life often
I can relate a lot to your shame trigger. In social settings I tend to approach games and competitions as an opportunity to experiment and see how badly I can do something because I am so so so much more comfortable with losing than winning (except when I win by accident through some fluke). In work settings if I sense there is a 'risk' that I will be shown to be a master more than my peers, I will downplay with self deprecating comments or say something like "this may be totally wrong but let's see what happens", basically hoping to fool people into thinking that it was a happy accident that I arrived at the solution to someone elses problem. My fear is that I make someone else feel inadequate and then get shunned for being a try hard or brown nosing. I would even go as far as to say that I may have avoided trying some things that interest me like new hobbies because I know that I will excel at them and don't want that pressure and drain of having to try hard not to be good
I found this really interesting as I've never had a competitive bone in my body and these different ways of dealing with winning as well as losing are a complete and total eye-opener! I do understand shame, though, as my family gave me enough shame about who I am and everything I do to the point that I was a real mess for most of my life. It's only since finding out I'm an aspie four years ago that I gradually realised those shameful things are perfectly normal for us, lol, and my life has completely changed for the happier.
I relate to the shame around winning in the sense of academic success. During a test or assignment, I would often score really well, and this was a point of shame because I felt like it made my peers who didn't do as well feel bad about themselves. This is probably from being called a know it all, and seen as academically nerdy. Thank you for sharing about your stories!! It was helpful to relate.
Huge shame and anxiety trigger for me. People being jealous of me was something I tried to avoid and hide my skills, intelligence. Did that somewhat successfully in high school.
Definitely relates to Tall Poppy Syndrome, especially in Australia where your difference and life journey is judged for being “too” ambitious or artistic.
Great topic! I'm autistic (late diagnosis) and also gifted with a high IQ. This meant that throughout my life I was always "winning" without even trying at things I was interested in. I eventually went to a (top) architecture school, one that was extremely hard to get into, and even harder to graduate from. I was still one of the very "best", and graduted cum laude. Though I was not always "the" best. It caused the sort of problems you describe, and I was generally despised by my peers because of it. The thing is, I also have huge intelectual deficits. I have great difficulty with math and spelling. Social difficulties. I'm diagnosed as ADHD. I've struggled with severe anxiety and depression most of my life. I've never felt I was better than other people or even smarter. Quite the opposite. So being rejected and ostracised didn't make sense to me - I figured there was something wrong with me, but I couldn't figure out what it was. Now I know: It's not that something was wrong - it's that I was different. So different that others feel bad about themselves in group settings with me. Now I live alone and no longer have to work (I retired in my 40s due to stress). It's lonely sometimes, but I'm much happier than when I tried to fit in by supressing my gifts. It's important to remember: You can't control other people or their feelings. Therefore, you are not responsible for them. Haters gonna hate, and there's little you can do about that, besides avoiding haters. Unfortunately, autism and it's outward social behaviors are viewed with hatred by many nuerotypical people. Our deficits become vectors for attack when our competencies appear threatening. This comes from a combination of instinct and ignorance on the part of NTs. I try to dispel the ignorance by disclosing my condition upfront, and explaining how it effects my social behavior. After that I figure it's abouth the character of the person(s) I'm dealing with. If it's lacking, there's little I can do but disengage from them. Unfortunately, most people are not of strong charcter in this regard - at least in group settings. I do best in one on one settings, or in group settings where I'm the leader, and we are working together to achieve some goal. Unstructured social settings like parties don't work out well for me. Ever.
Oh my gosh, this is like the most relatable video ever. My brain is like a machine, I absorb data fast, can learn just about anything really quickly, see the big picture of things so quickly that I often get bored. I need challenge... So yeah, I have been sabotaging myself all the way, because I noticed for some reason people seem to get jealous of me a lot... There is always something about me they get jealous at. It's no fun. After jealousy comes hatred and resentment. I have been devalued a lot too, because when I am just me, people seem to get intimidated... I am so alone. Wish I could be around more minds like myself. Hate feeling like an alien.
absolute resonance -- and to this day, I extend that to virtually all parts of life and have learned to put half effort or none at all, for fear of doing things - winning for example - too well. In just the past few months I am learning to build up confidence in my own skills -- before I found that I could only win or do something well if I pretended I was some other person. I share the self-sense that... why would anyone like me if I show my true self.
This honestly got reinforced for me due to bullying. People would constantly call me a know-it all and no one wanted to be around me because of it. I've noticed too that it's very easy for me to pick up new stuff and I am very self conscious about it.
Definitely relate to the shame of winning and being good at certain things/learning easily/low effort needed etc. I am proud of the awards I have received, but also feel shame displaying them and receiving them.
I can relate so much. The guilt & shame of being way above average, I've had it pointed out that by doing well I was making other people look bad, even though that was never my intention. I also love it when others are better than me because I get to try my best, which was more important than winning, I lack that competitive drive except for self improvement. I love your videos, it has been a very recent journey of self discovery to realise I'm autistic & you do a brilliant job of explaining things. So thankyou
Yes! I experience fear when it is apparent I’m going to win. I can’t cope with the resulting feelings of other peoples expectation. To react in shame upon being teased for winning is one (horrible!) thing, but feeling that subsequent wins will be expected…crushes me.
I had a very similar childhood, and i'm pretty sure i'm also autistic, but i am the polar opposite of you! I remember being shamed as a child for being outwardly happy and proud of my results in a math competition - apparently i was bragging and i thought i was better than everyone else. While I couldn't care less about these people and their results. And many, many more such cases. I responded to this by shutting down from my environment completely and focusing on trying to be better than everyone else, as well as developing delusions of grandeur, believing i was born under a lucky star. I wanted their admiration and respect, not their love and friendship. I was supposed to be special and the best at everything. Excessive praise from parents and teachers helped feed my ambitions. Needless to say,it was absolutely crushing every time i got bad or mediocre results! That's why i haven't had a consistent hobby outside of writing poetry in quite a long time - i get very easily discouraged by failure. I believe, paradoxically, people who don't like being the smartest or most talented person in the room have more potential for growth than someone like me, as they will constantly look to level up and be in community with those better than them, learning from them along the way.
I needed to giggle so much seeing your video, as you verbalised my shame trigger so perfectly! I always felt very uncomfortable around competing /playing with girls (I am a woman, apparently by nature) as I was somehow naturally better at a lot of things compared to them and felt their pain when loosing (I am highly empathetic) and felt guilty for their pain. I actually wanted to be a boy in childhood for a long period of time and played a lot with boys. Here, I felt more comfortable as competing on common grounds/capabilities. I could be more myself, let out my energy, be wild and restless as I felt. Actually, still applies to today. I feel more at home and on ease socialising with men, but feeling out of my comfort zone socialising with women. I hate to be in the spotlight and be rewarded for my achievements. When I finished middle school as the best pupil in my generation and receiving my certificate in front of the audience...I wanted to run away, the pressure and eyes of all people were just too much. Imposter syndrome, my second name! When I dance with my friends in a club, I downsize my energy and moves just to "fit in", not coming across as bragging if I was to truly dance of how I feel. Can't take & accept compliments, I cringe, don't know how to react, want to make it stop or escape. Your videos are pure butter for my soul Paul, finally finding home in a community, a sense of belonging! Not being the alien as I ought to believe my whole life
I can relate completely. I learned from an early age (because my mother told me so) that "it's not nice to win all the time" and that I should let someone else win (sister, cousin, visitor, etc.) once in a while. I learned to lose by a risky move, or to pretend I missed the good move, anything to get close to winning, because I enjoyed it. I'm not sure I really enjoyed the actual feeling of winning because others were sad or mad they lost (I'm an empath and feel everyone's feelings as if they're mine...). But I liked the fact that I tested myself at something and found I could do it well. As an adult, I don't play games that require a lot of social interaction because I can't keep up, but I still play strategy type games and prefer to play with people much better than me so I can learn something. I don't really play games for the fun of it - the fun part is learning a new word, or a new strategy, something useful. Does that make sense?
For me it was being punished and yelled at for the grave sin of reading ahead in the fifth grade. Taught me not to do as much as I could have, and that being better is being different and that's bad. I don't know if she was just having a bad day once and I was on the other end of that, maybe it wasn't reflective of her as a teacher or a person. But it impacted me. This was a visceral video. I can absolutely understand shame around succeeding especially significantly. Your situation being teased like that just sounded brutal. It hit me in the gut too just empathizing with your feeling like people will reject and abandon you and that your true self needs to be rejected or absolutely would be if shown. I really lived that life for a long time. Damn man. Thanks for making the video. It couldn't have been easy or comfortable.
I needed this video so much. Thank you. I remember hiding being smart or good at things in elementary school, because that would make me a larger target. If I got noticed or recognized, they would make fun of me for it. Going into Jr high if you weren't in chorus you'd have to take a music class that sounded just awful and boring. so I had to try out for chorus with the music teacher. I get done singing and she's says " that was beautiful, how did I not know u could sing?" And I said (I breaks my heart an 11yr old said this now) " because if you're good at too many things around here, that's just another reason for them to hate you" ...I took it to such the extreme that I actually fell a lil behind for awhile. Better to do really well in lower track classes (with nicer kids) then higher track classes (with the rich b*tch bullies) As an adult, I can make anything. Figure out how to make anything with no directions. Invent things. For a time I turned this into a very lucrative thing with teaching. So, to everyone out there who ever struggled with this, or any aspect of " fitting in" , find a way to make your quirk, work for you. In that way, u will gain confidence. You will have found where u fit...
It's so mad when you mentioned winning as a shame trigger! I can honestly say I have this but the reason if feel nervous about it is the fact that if I win, people challenge you. People challenge winners and I'm nervous about it! Also making other people feel upset about it!! It's so mad but so true in my life and maybe so many others life's as well!
I identified a great deal with many of your videos. I am 57 and only have become aware that I may be in the autism spectrum. In the past, I have done what you described when playing a game with others. I had also been wrongly described as being good at everything, but knew I was not. My brother happens to be very invested in winning games and would be angry whenever he lost. I began to “check out” of the game and was so relieved when I lost. My brother would be happy and I would be too since no anger came my way. I hated playing games from this childhood moment and if forced because of social demands, I would not invest myself and even try to lose so that I could prevent any problems with the other children. Haha. Thank you for your hard work at putting out these informative videos.
I struggle with shame a lot for many reasons, but one situation where I heavily relate was stretching in gym class. I've always been super flexible (surprise, it's an autism trait ((also didn't know I was autistic until 22))) and every time we had to stretch in class boys would look at me and sexualize me and girls would say I'm showing off. Some days I wouldn't properly stretch to avoid the comments, but then I wouldn't feel ready for whatever activity we had. Was super frustrating and uncomfortable at the time and contributed to my multitude of anxieties around gym classes.
I have had winning AND losing triggers. On the one hand, if I'm relatively better at everything the people around me disconnect from our shared activity. On the other hand, if actually-skilled people include me based on reputation they soon notice my incompetence. Is the only way to get by in certain areas to be mediocre? That sounds sad and is (of course) difficult.
Same! The reminiscent feeling of loneliness got triggered from this! I felt the need to match others’ pace to “survive” in society. It’s so limiting and heartbreaking *sigh*
![State of Play | September 24, 2024 [ENGLISH]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fVs0suPHAX8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Raw & Uncut] Autistic Women Reveal the Truth About High Masking - FULL INTERVIEW](/img/1.gif)
My response to "You're good at everything" is "Nope, I only do things I'm good at." I'm terrible at lots of things but I avoid those things, especially in a public setting.
I too share that train of thought...😁✨
I feel called out. ;-)
This goes for me too. Same with knowledge when people say I'm a "know it all". Nope, I just speak up when they're talking about something I know things about. Otherwise I just stay quiet. I noticed NTs just say things, so I've been trying to be wrong when I talk sometimes too (talk about things I don't know about). It's weird though 😅
Well said!
came down here to say this! it's so true. i don't try things unless i am alone and i dont do them around/with others if i am not good at it. i will also keep quiet if i dont know a lot about a topic being talked about. id rather say nothing than be incorrect haha
Same, I was called "Miss Know It All" and they celebrated when I would fail. I felt like I couldn't win. A lot of my identity was wrapped up in being the smart/talented kid. I felt ashamed when I won and when I wasn't good at something. Life is better now.
At school they used to call me the walking talking dictionary. I was just excited about learning and sharing knowledge with other people but it did always get taken in the spirit it was intended which I think is incredibly sad
This!
That is a lot to juggle. The childhood years seem to be the worst! Thankfully our childhood is short and we have more adulthood years that offer more control.
That is a lot to juggle. The childhood years seem to be the worst! Thankfully our childhood is short and we have more adulthood years that offer more control.
Human encyclopaedia 🤦 🙄. Just so over humans and honestly hate the fact that I am actually human too and not an alien that gets to go home.
Wow! One of the MAJOR catastrophic events in my childhood was in first grade. There was a daily game of marbles at recess that I watched from the sidelines. The boys were very noisy and competitive about this game. I finally got my mom to buy me a bag of marbles and after another week of watching and practicing at home, I joined the game. That day I came home with ALL of the marbles. When I proudly told my mom she came to school with me the next day and made me give back all the marbles I had won. I was devastated. I had watched how to play, learned the rules, practiced on my own and WON them fair and square. Since then when ever I’m told I’m too competitive I just stop playing. Or stop playing to win, even intentionally loosing at games I’m really good at. (Scrabble) Edit: I want to emphasize that I was in first grade and most of the kids I beat that day were 4th and 5th graders. My ability to hyper focus on the game was my super power. That the overwhelming joy of being really good at something was met with such a huge backlash was in hindsight a major impediment to my future lack of striving in certain areas.
Aww, poor you! That story makes me cry with empathy & anger with your mum. Why can't innocent children be allowed to work hard & enjoy success?!
People get triggered over the slightest amount of pride, or precieved to be pride but it doesn't sound like pride was your intention, you were still just a kid at the time. You don't have to stop doing what you love as long as your not prideful, and I don't believe you are.
Of course, each parent is different. Some parents overpraise their kids, others don't pay attention and others can feel threatened by their kids' success.
I'm sure your mom saw the potential backlash from the older kids and was trying to protect you. Unfortunately, she didn't know how to explain it you.
Btw, nobody likes to play scrabble with me either. Lol🤷♀️
I'm so sorry. My mom did something similar with me at a birthday party. I think she wanted to protect me. It hurt so much to be criticised by her, but I think she did it out of love for me, and I'm sure your mom did too
The message “The people who know me the best love me and accept me for who I am” made me cry. The reality is that this isn’t true for me. I hope I find people like that someday
Me too. I believe I have an idea. If you are uncomfortable with the people you are with and your past self, but you don't have people who can accept the new vision of yourself, it means you are halfway there. To reach your goal and find people who accept your new self, you must first accept it yourself.
In that case, sadness should describe regret about the current situation, not because you tell yourself it is impossible to find people who accept you for who you are in the future. After all, it depends on your power as a creator.
Please write a story where you love and accept yourself, no matter how hard it is for you to believe in that because of your traumatizing experiences in the past.
My shame trigger is crying when I feel strong emotions. I used to be made fun of for being a cry baby or a drama queen or whatever, when I couldn't control my (unidentified) emotional dysregulation. To this day I cry when I'm mad or sad or happy... it's sometimes infuriating for obvious reasons, but when I'm angry I feel shame over it, and I don't know how to stop.
Same
There's a lot of broken neurotypical people out there thinking that people cry because they are manipulative instead of recognizing their own trust issues. Shame should be on them, not you.
So nt adults do not cry feeling these emotions? I am asking cuz I cry often and I wonder if it is autistic traits. I am during my unmasking journey 😅
I cry over what nt people would call minor things
Same, I can rarely identify strong emotions but when I feel them I always cry and I can't stop. These emotions come out of nowhere and completely overwhelm my reality. I'm epileptic too and if I fight it too hard I can cause a seizure. So I have to cry it out. At a restaurant? Excuse myself to the bathroom,have a good cry and maybe an edible from my purse.😂 I have lost family members over this though, which reinforces the shame feeling. It's a hideous cycle 😫
I have dealt with shame since I can remember. It was made worse through childhood abuse and then from spousal abuse. In my marriage I had to “dumb myself down” to avoid outshining my husband. I’m out of the abuse now but still trying to unlearn these negative behaviors I adopted to survive.
God bless you 😊
I absolutely relate to this! The comments like “you’re so much better than me” and “I wish I was as good as you” make me feel so guilty. My empathy gets triggered and I feel like I’m supposed to console you rather than celebrate my success. I’m a natural artist and I hold myself back from creating because of this exact feeling of shame. Thank you for making this video, Paul!
I totally relate! I have a memory from grade school where my school would have us swap teachers for different subjects and I didn't finish my art project so I was sent to another classroom where all the students were using my work as a reference. From then on people always would use these phrases when It took work and skill to get there. I would always tell them it just takes practice but I was always at an unattainable level of skill then my peers. I even met a famous illustrator that said I had displayed more talent then he had at my age at the time. But because I've been so good at art my whole life, I don't ever get praise or engagement like others that have just picked it up. I stopped creating as much now, especially with the algorithms now..
Oh my gosh, I feel like I could have written this. Those innocent little comments made me feel so bad for being good at things. I really want to stop holding myself back.
I remember loving tumbling (cartwheels, acrobatics, etc) in the park when I was younger. It was so much fun and freeing. Then someone yelled that I was "showing off" and since then (over 50 years ago), I have always been afraid to put myself out there "too big". I would hide to do my fun stuff, or stop myself from doing fun stuff in front of other people. It is terribly restricting and sad. I perform on stage (dance and musicals) now and that is ok, because that is where you are "supposed to" perform, but trying to practice in a situation where NTs don't expect it brings bad looks.
I understand the joy of doing, and being shamed for showing off, and therefore never doing it again because even the echo is painful
That’s sucks, why are people so mean?! I remember I a girl when I was little who could do somersaults, and I could not, but I was so fascinated and mesmerized by her! I wanted her to do it again and again! We both had fun, I enjoyed the show just like when you go to a show to watch, and she enjoyed performing for me. Why are people so negative.. wow..
That makes me sad! I want you to tumble and be free.
What I find strange is that when outgoing people do fun stuff or do something really crazy…that’s ok and socially acceptable
I really feel you on that one because when we try to do it…it just seems as though they are disturbed and offended by it because we think differently
I know how you really feel because I’ve been there 😐
Sherry: That is public shaming! The person who said it should be ashamed of themselves, but don't, they don't care and don't even remember anymore. So what I don't get....why are we all holding on to these memories that when we recall them, it's like reverting back to that exact moment and you relive those feelings again in your skin. But now we're older. Why can't we see those younger experiences through older eyes now? Why do these things continue to affect us like it is happening now? And one feels the bite of shame as if it were guilt. But nothing was done that was wrong. It was just someone else "publicly shaming" us to make us feel wrong...to make a cheap joke, at our expense. Unfortunately, we have to believe, some people are just mean, they do mean and unjust things that have nothing to do with me, although it involved my experience. No cause and affect. That person said something about you, but you did not cause what they said. What causes that is their ignorance, or jealousy, or prejudice or being taught to be a jerk, it's destructive competing. Oh for a world where people were taught to work together, instead of competing against everyone. Someone actually thinks that they are "getting ahead" or "winning". We are talking about life here, life is not a game, but games can be metaphors for life. I wish people would just play nice. Winning is a myth in the mind of a perverted world.
I didn't care about winning at everything. However, after I turned forty, I started reviewing past situations in which I behaved inappropriately, and I'm ashamed that I didn't realize it at the time. My shame is all about inappropriate behavior and lack of social skills.
You took the words right out of my brain…word for word…
@@Drewmatic_Animation Ditto.
oh shame has been the main feeling throughout my entire life, and only recently i started understanding it deeper and trying to find ways to deal with it. the timing of this video is beyond perfect, can't wait to hear what you're gonna share
I was diagnosed with Asperger’s in 2012.
I sometimes feel deep, intense shame over the embarrassing, foolish things I’ve done over the years. I feel they’re not the “normal” embarrassing things that most everyone does wrong but far worse and the frequency is much more. I cringe internally sometimes and wish life had a restart button, only I’d know then what I do now. I feel that I should have known better and am stupid (sorry for the ableist slur).
Thank you so much for this video Paul. As a little girl I was always rejected, laughed at, ridiculed and isolated for wanting to learn and understand - what I now know were very abstract and complex topics. I didn't know to behave like a "normal" girl and I was completelly unaware of how different I actually was. As I got older my personality seemed to be very attracttive to men and a terrible threat to women. I never bothered to mask as it never ever worked. I remember trying to hard at the very beginning of every school start to be quiet, not talk too much or laugh, only to FAIL and quickly revert to my own loud, unaware self. My shame trigger is my personality. I was always loved and wanted because of "my fantastic personality" but also excluded from important aspects of life. I have failed so much, I have been so rejected and avoided because of my personality. I was feared by other women because their men would "fall in love with my charm". I never even thought in those terms but I was terribly hated for something I just couldn't help. I have spent long periods of my life avoiding people, isolating myself because of this.I understand you so well Paul, you are amazing and highly skilled and you love improving. Your trigger seems similar to mine, you are so good at "doing" - I am so good at "being" if that makes sense. It is a terrible shame, because I now think that people will think I'm just bragging.
I totally 'get' all that! You are not alone. I always made resolutions to be quiet & 'hide my light under a bushel' for fear of annoying people with my knowledge, enthusiasm, openness, excitement, eagerness etc but always kept forgetting & then feeling terrible when men reacted positively & women feared me. But I'm totally harmless & just long to be free to be me, with no hidden agenda, unself-conscious & eager, doing my very best, like when I was as a child.
@@blackbird365 , exactly that. It's a deep set fear we live with - especially women - when we can't be ourselves, but then again we can't help but being who we are. I have been constantly and completelly misunderstood as flirty simply because I am enthusiastic, open and get really excited about certain topics (I am an academic interested in the social sciences of Criminology and Psychology). There is not a flirty bone in my body, but sadly too many people misunderstand and I end up feeling "wrong". As I got older, I really embraced the aging process and I'm finally no longer a threat and no longer exposed to men who think I want something. I wish I had a good advice for you, but all I can say is that I wish I had focused a little more on choosing the people I surrounded myself with, so that I didn't have to experience the ignorance of the mainstream up close.
@@sandrag.7861 Yes, absolutely. One of the joys of getting older is that now I too am saf(er) from being flirted with or misunderstood as being flirty by men. With age comes freedom! I've always been v interested in academic philosophy & theology, but my attendance at university seminars, evening talks, church-related theology classes etc has always caused me problems. The single male lecturers & esp priests feared me, assuming I was chasing them - despite my showing no personal interest whatsoever besides polite friendliness & a desire to ask questions & discuss metaphysics etc. But apparently, a youngish single woman is still perceived as either easy prey or else (if you're a celibate priest) a threat. :(
Finding anyone, never mind enough people to 'surround myself with' is impossible in my country village. My best friends have died, so I make do with online chats in my special-interest groups. Thank you for the chat! I really appreciate being believed & accepted, even briefly. Best wishes. :)
@@blackbird365 Thank you too for this brief moment of understanding, it is as you say, being believed and accepted if even for a moment. To me it has alot to do with being taken seriously enough, as most of the occasions when I've expressed this issue I get sideways looks and comments such as "are you honestly complaining about getting POSITIVE attention!?". I am so grateful for Pauls channel and the ways he explains the hardships in a constructive manner and how this makes it possible meeting people like you. I wish you all the best ❤
I completely relate to everything you’ve said. Sadly, I have allowed the envy of other women to stifle me in so many ways. I’m becoming more courageous and confident now . God knows my true heart and intentions and he would not bless me so much if I were as haughty and arrogant as these women and even a few men like to accuse me of being. Of course I am not claiming to be most humble. I definitely can improve in being modest and humble, but at least im conscious of that need.
I really relate to this! I have an excellent memory for words: poems, hymns, song lyrics (all the verses!) plays, passages from literature, things I was taught verbally as a child etc, & I retain & can recall things easily after not coming across them for decades.
But I always have to hide or disguise my natural tendency & absolute LONGING to join in with songs & plays, to finish quotations, to speak along with passages & recite poems, because people have always called me weird, gifted, a genius (which I AM NOT!) & also a show-off, attention-seeking, supercilious etc (which again I AM NOT!) They roll their eyes & dismiss me if ever I risk a short quotation.
So I always have to suppress my desire to enjoy sharing wonderful, meaningful words, lyrics & apt quotations. I have to dumb down when speaking too, & censor any polysyllabic words or subordinate clauses, adverbial phrases etc to avoid the shame of being better able to express myself that I ought to be. So I can never enjoy or share any of my vast, rich, inner treasure trove of language & knowledge for fear of being shamed & misunderstood. No philosophical speculation is 'allowed' in 'normal life' either. Sob.
I never guessed that all my younger life's eager learning with joy would be such a painful disadvantage or make me so desperately lonely.
I recite poems when walking in the country alone. At least the cows, birds & sheep seem to like it. :)
I can identify with you blackbird though I have not mastered keeping my mouth shut to allow others to share their knowledge of the topic too. I have been called a know it all, a show-off and an attention seeker among other not too nice names. I am 71 years old and have recently discovered why I am so different from others.
@@genevaodom3283 Aww, it's hard, isn't it?! I often fail to keep quiet & refrain from bursting out with some piece of knowledge or a quotation too. I have no diagnosis & don't trust anyone who hasn't known me for decades to really understand my differences (which often don't show, because I seem to mask so well. Until I slip up! :\ ) You sound really genuine & interesting to listen to & share ideas etc. Best wishes & welcome to being 'different' from boring, empty-headed people with poor memory! We have our inner treasure troves to enjoy. :)
Sounds like you need a community of like-minded people
@@ZabavaThePower Thanks. But I would dearly love to find even 1 like-minded person, never mind a whole 'community'! Chance would be a fine thing. I know nobody articulate or well-read in poetry & literature or even remotely interested in anything except food, clothes, pets, gardens, popular culture.
Where to find anyone, out here in the country? Thanks for replying. x
I’m the same with lyrics but for the life of me I cannot remember who the singer is or artist everything else about it or around it I get 😂 f
I can truly relate to the shame associated with winning. More specifically for me I don’t like public accolades and a lot of attention for my accomplishments. It makes me very uncomfortable. I do fear the jealousy of others. I’m highly empathetic and I always worry that my “win” will make others feel bad. I prefer secret, one-on-one acknowledgements and praise. Even that can be uncomfortable. I feel like an imposter because I never feel good enough. I know part of that comes from my traumatic childhood. I was undiagnosed with Autism and ADHD so I was constantly criticized and controlled in my very socially rigid household. It was a very proper environment. To this day I always doubt myself and feel inadequate. Finally I’ll add that being successful for me also adds additional pressure to replicate it or maybe even do better. I’m terrified of failure. This was a great video. I want to watch it a few more times so it can sink in. Thank you!
You are literally speaking my soul and mind !!!
You have no idea how much I relate to this
That part with raising the expectations to a level where failure eventually will be unavoidable is what drives me crazy. Even if I don't fail this time, I'll do at some point, and as a child, I wasn't allowed to fail, even if it wasn't always expressed explicitly.
@@Ph34rNoB33r I get it. I’d like these feelings to be less intense.
DTrainsWife01. Really relate to the middle of your comment, also undiagnosed (until age 72), very rigid family structure, huge amounts of strict discipline. Due to high IQ being recognised, family expectations very high, way beyond my actual level of ability to function, so constant disapproval. Let's face it, we aren't good at everything, anyway. As a child I discovered I appeared to have a much more developed conscience than my peers which included the need to please others especially the family, to make them proud of me. This led to an intense awareness of shame in so many different areas when I couldn't achieve what was expected of me. Such a relief to be diagnosed & realise I actually did the best I could.
I so relate. And I understand it this way: We were told about competition once, it was demonstrated regularly, and we performed as instructed. No one articulated to us that there might be nuances, and some of us (Aspies and Autistics 💪🏼😊) took a long time to realize our rule actually had a dial no one mentioned that we should use.
I know I learned about life through the creation of a set of rules, not as much from human contact. Negotiating life, running a race or building a one-woman business, has never been first about flowing with other people. It’s been moving toward an established goal, with other human involvement the next step, like putting muscle on a skeleton. We’re brilliant and productive in so many ways (I too have been ashamed about how I win awards in the first year of whatever endeavor I enter - art, sales, community service, journalism), but it’s hard to fit in socially because our skills (rational before social) were developed in the opposite order. I am often sad about it - even though I’ve done a lot of work understanding myself for decades, and now, 69, I think I’ve forgiven myself of about everything, and enjoy socializing now and then. (I’m a happy quasi-hermit.) Power to us all.
This is such a beautiful comment. Paused the video before it even started to finish reading this first. Thank you for sharing.
I too read this first, thank you for your insight. Working towards a ME goal, like acknowledging my existence and that I have basic needs that I haven't been meeting. Like I just became aware that I am important to people regardless of my ability to meet their expectations or needs. Maybe I'll actually figure out more now. Weird 🦋
I feel you all. Same situation.
Though I had a mental "break" 13y ago (trauma‐induced) & it stopped me in my tracks.
This neurodivergent brain is my blessing & my curse & it often pushes away those I love most.
I'm sooo sick of being left out of the human race - especially as I'm an activist for civil rights. So I feel there's such a chasm ‐ that I'm often pushed away by the very species I fight for the fair treatment of.
Apologies are my forté...
ES.❤💔
I have a somewhat similar story. When I was growing up, my friends used to call me an "encyclopedia" because I had a tendency to know something about everything (in other words, my brain is just filled with fun facts about the world). They'd joke that I could explain any topic, and would often put me in front of strangers to demonstrate. I remember once, we were running a booth for ecology club and when we asked our audiance of younger kids if they had any questions, and one of them snarkily asked how the universe was created? So my friends pushed me to the front and shruged at me to start talking, which I did.
I realize that kind of sounds like bullying, but its actually a good memory of mine; the kid's jaw dropped when I started talking about rudimentry information on the big bang, and it made my friends smile. What did bother me was when they'd use it justify excluding me. There was always this under current of "oh, we didn't tell you about x thing because we didn't think you'd enjoy it since you're _so_ smart," so I started to consiously dumb myself down at a young age. I interalized that knowing things was fine when people _asked,_ but it was somehow "rude" when they didn't, and also that if I wanted to hang out with people I needed to restrain myself and enthusiastically like what they liked. Not just like it--I had to _enthusiastically_ like it, and appear very very excited for it to be genuine enough so that I could be included, which to this day is probably one of the biggest energy burn masking behaviors for me.
Then, just typical aspie stuff in addition to that I guess. Like, never have I ever understood why telling someone they're wrong is a social faux paus? When I'm factually incorrect about something, I want to KNOW so I can not be incorrect anymore, but apparently you don't do that in casual conversation. Anyway, to this day, I'm always scared that people are going to think I'm trying to show off, or upstage them if they mention a topic and I chime in to deepen, dispute, or add to their point.
OMG! I hate competitions of all kinds because of this. Unfortunately, other people see competition where I don't as well. My biggest shame issues are surrounding communication. I'm hyperlexic and because I was reading adult books as a child, and often old books, my language style is odd. I'm okay with taking the blame for miscommunications, but others are often too embarrassed to even let on that they don't understand what I said. I don't think I'm better for using "big words," but often I'm struggling enough with the social situation that I just use whatever words in my vocabulary mean what I'm trying to say. It's actually a functional deficit at play, but because people think I'm trying to "sound smart" I get accused of talking down to people or get blindsided by some other accusation to change the subject. This just doubles my shame.
We have done ourselves no favors as a society by shifting from a belief that competition is a good thing and not winning is okay to the "everybody gets a trophy" attitude that doesn't give children the chance to be the best at something and also be mediocre or terrible at other things and realize that it's all okay. A kid who is uncoordinated but an expert on birds doesn't need to get a trophy for running a race, he should be asked to do a special project to help teach his peers about birds. Imagine how much happier we would all be if we were supported in doing what we enjoy and what we are good at!
Competition is part of culture, it's like consumerism. Very little is taught about working together in groups. More is taught about working against others to get ahead. If it's more difficult for people on the spectrum to be in groups, imagine this in a culture bent toward competitive thinking. Add to this the drive to concentrate on a specific skill....to overachieve. So with the person on the spectrum, I feel like if I'm in a competitive situation, in games, there is no limit, you want to win so much, or the drive is there, and it's toxic, because it is against the other person and not with the other person. So why is it normal to compete? I hate competing in games.. it makes me want to avoid games, competition is destructive and not creative. If a fun loving playful attitude can be achieved, then games are fun and healthy and bring people together. There is nothing wrong with autistic people, maybe it's the competitive culture that is wrong, the culture that shames the other, and teases...these are forms of competing too. But still, even knowing all this, one can still feel ashamed.
Exactly, competition is totally toxic! Especially when you can't control the dosage.
I have internalized shame due to my upbringing, and I often recognize it as so halfway through. I was also taught that succeeding is not merely “perfectly” completing the given task but rather overachieving (e.g. receive 💯 + bonus points + basically fame).
I am quite competitive, but winning/losing was more important to those who placed expectations on me. I enjoyed either, but became fearful of coming in 1st or dead last as those seem to place an unnerving amount of attention on me (real or not). If I make it to the top, people attach expectations to the rank and pressure me not to fall. If I’m behind all, people expect a good-for-nothing and avoid/reject. So even though I’m often stupidly competitive (as in I may have no chance of winning but just act on excitement), I always have to adjust myself to land somewhere in the middle. If I suck at the thing, I have to quickly work it out in my brain to pull weight somehow to just not end up all the way on the bottom. If I sense I can get to top 5, it is time to back down…because I can’t handle the aftermath.
…also, I am definitely “too much” excitement-wise towards the activity. I can mask, but they can feel me radiating energy. Their attitudes often read as, “why are you so invested in this?” If I grew up in a healthy, positive manner, I believe I would be labelled “life enthusiast,” or something. But growing up the way I did, I always notice when I manage to genuinely feel “happy/positive” and remind myself to be careful because “that isn’t allowed.”
Anyways, just hearing about competitiveness makes me giddy, heh! In regards to shame, I was known for being “shameless” during my childhood because I went against conventions and whatnot. Whatever came naturally, whatever made sense that wasn’t tied to “bs” logics, I roared with freedom of self. And then came punishment/correction. So I kicked that free spirit into a chest, sealed it, and regularly burnt out as a lost soul. But then I found the chest recently! Without checking out your channel, I probably wouldn’t have. Thanks 🥰 and apologies if my thoughts and emotions are all over the place in this comment, haha 😅
ohh yeah
I've been told over and over again that I'm too much; too artsy, too excited, too passionate, too eccentric, too colorful, too deep, too abstract, just too much. I'm an artist in fact, but crazy obsessed with quantum physics as well as other more obscure or niche interests. In general, everytime I think I can share some cool things I've learned, I come off as a know it all or a crazy eccentric. For many years I've walled myself off from talking about my interests with others because afterwards I'd feel exposed and embarrassed. I'm a completely non competitive person so I struggle when others feel threatened by the knowledge I share. I just want to share. I'll never understand. I've been trying to understand for 52 years.
This shame trigger around winning actually applies to me :)
I was one of the best students in elementary school and was bullied for it a lot, the problem was that I didn't know how to cope with it, because school was just so easy for me that I could give the right answers even if I was half asleep. When I got to high school, I was under the impression that I was a bad person and definitely would be rejected if I stayed at this high level of knowledge, so I tried to downplay it. The peer pressure to fit in started to increase, the pressure to get good grades increased, math still was easy for me, but the other subjects became increasingly difficult, because I wasn't paying attention anymore, I was just so overwhelmed, because I was constantly trying to figure out how my peers wanted me to be, so I would be able to fit in. (I hope it makes sense, I'm just really tired right now)
My grades dropped by a lot, then some of my bullies switched schools and I relaxed a little bit and got better grades again. Now I'm in an apprentice ship and get just straight A's without trying really hard and I was really worried and ashamed of it in the beginning, but my friends don't care and I just trie to help them with the stuff they struggle with. It helps a lot that I don't have to dump myself down to fit in with my friends.
With sports it's actually the same thing, so yes I can relate a lot :)
(and I should definitely sleep now, I have to get up in less than six hours... I hope you understand everything, my brain feels foggy and English is not my first language. I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone with this shame thing around winning)
I was the same way growing up! I can totally relate.
I made the same kind of comment. I thought it was easy and assumed everyone else did.
I'm also afraid of "winning!" I was singled out for being "gifted" and the teachers thought they were helping me but other kids teased me and eventually estranged me for being a "freak" because I excelled in measured activities. I'm so happy you shared this. Thank you a thousand times.
I really relate to shame but not in winning game situations. I have my own world and often common sense didn’t enter my mind. Not that I’m unkind don’t care or anything, I just have a whole world in my head! Recently at age 45, I realised what I have been masking to be accepted and unknowingly I was telling myself that I was not good enough. But if I acted my true self I was not really accepted even by people who I liked very much so I experienced lots of rejections!
I downplay my intelligence in general, to be on the level of people around me. It's not that strong shame that I may have with some other deep things but to relate it to shame of being better that is my version. You get told when you are not keeping up or performing as expected, and ironically when you do better than others somehow they find a way to make you feel bad for that as well. I already have strong empathy so I don't want others to feel bad or less, having felt that a lot myself, and then people reacting negatively makes me minimize even more.
A common thing for people to say is "You think too much". I could reply, "You think too little" or bring up the fact that all my thinking is what aids my success in life, it's my one actual advantage. I'm not talking "think too much" in negative terms but just thinking, analyzing etc. Why can't people just recognize and appreciate your strengths, not make them a bad thing as well. As if I don't have enough disadvantages.. Of course the flip side is when they do recognize them, and completely forget about your limitations. Then you feel bad for having disadvantages, as you hold yourself to this standard of perfection others set for you. It's like it has to be either or, you can't be recognized as a fully dimensional person.
My old friends always told me i think too deep, but surface trivia always bored me and despite me trying to be someone other than me, it never worked and i am so glad. It has taken me a long time to be able to celebrate me and my extra gifts.
I think hearing "you think too much" or "you overthink" is among the worst things I've been told when I am voicing my anxiety and looking for advice. Like you said it's sort of "what I do" (i.e. think), or what anyone would do, if they cared enough about an issue or whatnot - what else am I supposed to do? Help me to think about it differently or just shut up about it and just say you don't know or care enough about me and my problems. It's such a weird thing to say - it's like saying stop being sad or happy. Excuse the vent but both of my parents just said this to me this evening^^
@@TheDavveponken No you're exactly right, it's a weird way for people to react to voicing how you feel and wanting some input. It's good we're not alone in finding that puzzling, and not a good way to treat anyone. They don't seem to know better...
Dezzyx It is! Thank you :)
I was told I overthink a few weeks ago and instead of standing up for myself I apologised, when in reality I don't other think at all. In fact in times where I've told myself not to overthink I got SAd by a work boss, got into an abusive relationship with someone else, because where I saw red flags, I assumed he was just short tempered and anxious etc... I will continue to think, processing is my protection.
My main feeling of shame has always been around not having any friends or having very few friends. I always felt it was something I should hide or not talk about, for example with coworkers. Growing up my mom was always trying to get me out to social events. I remember one eighth grade dance/party where I felt so incredibly awkward and talked to a teacher the whole time. There was a sense that people felt sorry for me. But, I've gotten to a place now (just in the past few years) at age 38 that I have a very close group of three friends and have also started to really enjoy solo travel. I have built up a community for myself of lots of people who care about me, including my religious group and family. I've tried desperately my whole life to blend in and not stand out in any way, so I can relate to not wanting to win or seem good at everything. Now I'm learning how to just be me.
The cutting down tall poppies and the shame that comes with being "above average" seems to be an Anglo thing (at least among the cultures with which I am familiar). Moving to Asia, working in Asian and German-run organisations of various stripes has been immensely freeing for me because among these people excellence is prized rather than derided.
really relate to this being in the uk
I'm also an engineer. Regarding shame around winning, not really, however a long term business contact who has been at various times a client and a collaborator said to me, after I upset a client by being too direct 'You've not been making people feel stupid again, have you?'
Like you, I value growth and see failure as an opportunity to learn and improve. To me, being told the uncomfortable truth is liberating, yet many experience it as humiliation.
It is a pity we are not able to process these cues easily and have to use our logical intelligence to second guess and compensate for shortcomings in our emotional intelligence
Many neurotypicals don't share the growthn mindset and need the dopamine hit of success and / or peer approval to persevere. I wonder if that's why we have a better chance at becoming competent at whatever we put our mind to? We don't get out off by failure in the same way, have perseverance and drive through with greater focus.
My guitar teacher has a no negativity rule. Whilst he gives instruction for Improvement I've never seen him criticise a student. That's something I'm trying to adopt.
Working through childhood shame triggers with my therapist is one of the small things that helped me realize I’m autistic. He had me doing it because of anxiety, and said that he wasn’t going dive into the why or my anxiety but I might discover it on my own. When I got to that emotional spot with child me and I started often saying “you didn’t know and no one knew to tell you” about a lot of social situations and things that made me not “fit in” I started seeing a pattern and between that, training I took for work on autism, and finally when I told my husband I couldn’t go to church because I no longer knew the rules (I didn’t realize that was why until I said it out loud when I was starting to feel overwhelmed one day).
This hit home. In primary school, I was a stellar speller who spent hours perfecting my cursive handwriting on every assignment. I won a school spelling bee one year and at around the same time a teacher called attention to my perfect handwriting in front of the entire class. I was teased by classmates and utterly mortified! From that point on, I made sure to misspell one word on every spelling test and don’t remember ever truly trying my best at anything after that. The notion that the people that matter most and love me will except me as I am is simply not true for me. At 66 years old, I hope that ship hasn’t sailed.
I find whenever I come to watch these videos, I have a small but important uplift in my mood! Thankyou for sharing this with us!
Just told my parents I believe I have aspergers. All these videos make a lot of sense..
🙋🏻♀️ Hi. I subbed to your channel. Because you like car camping. And spiders.
@@sixthsenseamelia4695 Thank you for reaching out. My upcoming video next tuesday may be my best yet. I aporeciate you checking it out.
@@JChurchua I also recently told my family that I'm certain about being on the ASD spectrum. Randomly discovering these videos was a light bulb moment. I'm so grateful for Paul and Aspergers On The Inside. 👍
My shame trigger in high school was that people found me interesting because I was a "novelty item" compared to other people - but once people figured out how I was that they would realize I was just interested in different things than them, and then they would decide I was annoying and leave me.
I have no idea where this idea came from, because as far as I know, it never actually happened. Quite the contrary: when friend groups split, I was always "allowed" to be on both sides (even while others were pressured to choose. So I lost friendships very little. Maybe the mechanics of friendship were just so inscrutable to me that I didn't know how they actually started or ended. But that trigger seems so much more pointed and specific.
I feel you ! I always felt like jumping between different groups in school, being accepted by my non-judgmental, kind nature, being diplomatic, never taking one side's, position. I never had once fixed group of school friends, but rather floating around from group to group, I assume on a rather superficial level. I am still like that as an adult, having a huge circle of acquaintances and friends, but forming really deep connections and keeping those friends emotionally satisfied and nurtured is very hard for me. Its as if I was running away from close connections, despite I want them..
Gosh I needed this video right now. Currently dealing with shame caused by executive dysfunction while lacking official support due to lack of diagnosis (been on the waiting list for at least a year now...)
I make plans of things I truly wanna do, want to play Hollow Knight for my boyfriend to watch, want to reconnect with some friends who I haven't seen in years... yet I can't because I never allowed myself to recover from a burnout that hit me before the pandemic started. It just feels like I am such a bad person for not doing the things I truly, genuinely want to do, because other things are getting in the way (such as living with a construction site also for a couple years and the economic strain the pandemic caused)
Shame is such a horrible emotion. We should feel sorry for things we've done wrong but never feel ashamed of who we are :(
First, I think you were incredibly brave to share with us such a deeply upsetting experience for you.
Second, I would have done the exact same thing in your place. If someone would have asked me to race In would have done my best regardless of the ability of the other person. I wouldn't have considered the social aspect of it either.
I wasn't socially savvy enough in primary or high school to realize that maybe I shouldn't be so good. I was proud to be the best at what I did. Though, I have to admit that I wasn't well linked back then.
I do remember that when I lettered in music as a freshman, my music directors said that I could have the metals and the letter, but I was not allowed to have the letterman's jacket yet. I had no idea why. Now I understand. Because it would not have gone well for me with the other kids if I would have. So, the music director was shielding me from that. I didn't really understand that until now. And it still seems ridiculous to me.
But as an adult, I do remember playing a particular board game with a friend. I beat him hopelessly every time we played. He eventually didn't want to play with me anymore because of that. And I was very confused because it didn't seem right to me to play poorly on purpose. And my friend didn't want me to either. So, I tried to teach him how to play better. And that worked to some extent. But I was still too much better than he was. And he did end up not playing with me anymore. I didn't feel ashamed, though. Just confused. And I missed being able to play to my full potential like I could with the person who I originally learned from.
It is really too bad that some people make fun of others for being good at what they do.
I have dated several guys who were by far the best at everything they did. And they were proud of it and celebrated for it. I wish that it was considered okay for more people to truly excell.
I really resonate with learning to be so good at a game that your partner no longer enjoys doing it with you
@@joycebrewer4150 That is a tricky situation, isn't it. One of my friends beats the socks off of everyone in every game he plays. Yet everyone still wants to play with him. I wonder why. He is most definitely on the autistic spectrum. (So am I. ) And yet I have no idea how he has managed to make and retain such good feiendships for so many years. Even though he consistently beats them at everything. He does praise his opponents a lot for what they do well. Maybe that's it. I always felt like it would seem condescending to do that. But it somehow works for him.
I completely relate to the Tall Poppy syndrome (thank you for the shorthand name for it!), though I don't love losing like you do. My fear of standing out is hard to avoid because my vocabulary gives me away. I intimidate people with how articulate I am, the words I use, my skill with wordplay (which is baked into my sense of humor), the way I employ metaphors and analogies or make references to literature and mythology, and other habits that put me on a different language level. It's difficult to do the "assess and adapt" thing with vocabulary while still holding a conversation and expressing myself authentically, especially about something that animates me.
I relate a lot, you put in words something I felt most of my life but couldn't articulate well. I always felt like people would reject me for being too good in casual competitions like video games or things in school like a math contest or a spelling bee. And I started to sabotage myself and downplay my abilities to the point where I let the others win. Now I feel like I can't "give everything" in most things without feeling shame and that affected, and still does, my potential in so many ways. Thanks for the video. I also love being free to try my best against people who is way better than me.
I used to get mocked about a lot of stuff, but the size of my vocabulary was the dumbest thing. I wish I could say I had a funny and articulate comeback, but I was left literally speechless.
I get loud when I'm excited and I'm always so ashamed after
I mainly have it around social awkwardness issues, saying or doing the “wrong” thing. And not being good enough at things. But, I do relate to some degree on being too good too. Almost anything art related I catch onto very quickly. I’ve been better than my peers since I was young at drawing and painting. Even now, amongst my friends and most in my community, I am better at art. Compared to other good artists, 😂 no. But generally, I am. I’m also fairly good at pattern making in sewing, knitting, etc. So, when people are complementing me to others I can feel very awkward, because I know I’m not good at so many other things. And especially when they say (with that familiar groany, almost annoyed sigh) “Yeah, we all hate her, she’s SOOOOO good….” It feels so backhanded a compliment I feel guilty for being good at it, like I’ve done something wrong by practicing and working at it for over 30 years and I’m better than they are. It’s really annoying. I don’t do the same to them, “Yeah, she’s SOOO good at having normal conversations with people that turn out well. I hate her so much.” 🙄😂
So, my shame is being not “average” lol. Either not good enough or too good.
Yes, I relate to this!
Im to good at reading,/ learning
Watching to try and understand my brilliant children better and modify anything I can to make their life’s easier . We live in a small country town and everyone knows they have autism through word of mouth or my kiddos just being themselves. I personally couldn’t care less BUT I hate when I hear my kiddos being referred to as those autism kids rather than their names . I won’t stand for it . I find if my daughter ever does win , comments are well so she should look at all the therapy help she gets or the others let her win . The other kids don’t seem to care and are just happy for her . She struggles to be out the door , in a sensory rich environment, how she manages to compete and even win at sports is beyond me . She does require a full day in bed in a dark room afterwards but never wants to stop trying . As for the other parents, I’ll pull up those comments straight away . I’m not shy anymore I don’t have that option . My kiddos have to come first . Love your videos so much to relate too , keep doing the great work, desperately needed.
It warms my heart to read this and how you are with your children believe me it makes a difference💖
@@Jas-zzz thank you 🙏, it’s a lonely road to be sure but it stopped being about me when I had my children.
Oh, Man, That shame triggered by winning, woof, that hit me differently knowing that others have it too.... and the name calling ... you know every thing ...
I definitely get it. When I'm playing football I always downplay my ability because I want people to like me. Growing up I had a similar thing where I was good at most things (at least academically and with sports), people had this idea that I was arrogant (or at least a few friends would try and joke with me about it). And it's kind of lasted to present day of being an adult because I definitely feel a shame of like, doing well/looking good/attractive/appearing confident, (and if I do achieve things, I definitely don't talk about it much or write on my social media about it, in case it's perceived as being arrogant). I see other people celebrating their wins and writing stuff and it just makes me feel a bit annoyed that I feel I can't do that
I completely resonate with the winning trigger. During high school, I was really good at art - that meant I just kept getting the top score every single year. In reality, It was my special interest, I retained everything like a sponge, and I practiced daily, because I would literally have meltdowns if I couldn't draw. I would even draw on the bus to and from school. One day, I scored 100% on the art history exam and my teacher announced it to everyone. I said, "oh," in the most deadpan voice... everyone laughed, but to me, I desperately did not want anyone to know. I still feel the deep shame now, right tight in my chest, where it hurts the most.
Oh but did they know. For years and years, I was bullied relentlessly by my peers in art. One of my 'friends' said that I didn't deserve the spot, behind my back, to my other friends. It got to the point where, in year 12, ranking 1st in my class for HSC art, I attempted to take my own life. My grades were just consistently so high that there was a big gap between myself and everyone else, and I felt so fucking scared. I considered smashing my hands with a hammer so I couldn't paint anymore. Winning, and winning by a lot, was dangerous. I was already really isolated (did not have a good home life).
My internal rank dropped to 2nd in my school. I lost the award for year 12. When the externally marked HSC grades came back, I still ranked first in the exam and major work.
Nobody cared I tried to kill myself. They would openly mock and isolate me in art class. They probably thought it was funny. They would laugh at me when I would start to cry and uncontrollably scratch and hurt myself in class, because I was so triggered and overwhelmed.
It took 10+ years to feel safe holding a pencil again, now I am making art again and feeling safe. I don't want to win at art. Art shouldn't even be something to win at.
I became a scientist instead. Yes, there's competitive people here, but I try to work in collaborative spaces. My current job is all about working as a team together to get the best job done. Nobody makes fun of me for being good at science. In high school, I was bad at science, I never 'won', because I had ADHD and dropped out of standard math in year 11. Maybe that's why it's easier to be a scientist today? I don't know. Anyway, this video hit really hard. Playing with your left hand... I would try to hide my abilities, beg the teacher not to share my grades, beg to hide my rank, but ... I don't think anyone understood.
Thanks so much for sharing that. In some contexts, I do feel a bit of the "shame of winning", but more recently, I've been struggling a lot more with the opposite feeling of not good enough and not having enough awards, accomplishments, etc. It is a nice reminder to know that those doing a lot better than me might have their own struggles as well. And yes, the reminder that what was true in the past might not be as relevant now has been important for me. Hope those triggers have been bothering you less more recently!
That's an interesting shame trigger and I can understand how it came about. If people react negatively to anything we do as ND, we do something else in the hopes they react better. I'm glad you've realized this, though, because that's exhausting.
Oh gosh, I have the same shame. I was relentlessly teased for being good at things. Then in college, when I kept beating my boyfriend over and over in a video game, I burst into tears. Both of us were so confused! But I realized then that winning excessively is a trigger for me. Unfortunately, failing is a trigger too since being “successful” was so wrapped up in my identity by other people.
Yes, I felt like that in high school. Particularly in mathematics I was so good that I didn't know how to handle that admiration/rejection it would provoke. At the university level it wasn't that bad.
Wow, I can relate. As I feel shame when I do better than others. I don't want to make others feel jealous or feel inferior to me. I am 60 and still dislike competitive situations. Thank u for sharing.
I so relate to the "too good at everything" shame... Growing up my sister (late ADHD diagnosis) was constantly compared with me (late autism diagnosis) in every single way where I was "better". I was the "good" kid because I never acted up (had so many creative hobbies that kept me occupied), I was always incredibly successful at sports, school and university and hyper-focussed on my chosen career path while my sister had her troubles keeping up her interest in a topic long enough to complete her education. I saw her suffer so much and she also told me at least once that her suffering was my fault. I severely limited some things I did enjoy (especially sports) in order to avoid this shame and her suffering.
After now starting my PhD, I keep getting the occasional "how did you study so fast, you're way to young to be a PhD student" and despite my therapy tackling also this exact topic this just kills me every time
Thank you for making these amazing videos and helping me feel understood, a feeling all of us crave but hardly ever get. ❤️
I totally relate to everything you said about feeling ashamed of winning or being the best at something. I would even intentionally write down wrong answers in my exams in high school to make sure I wouldn’t have the highest grade because otherwise the teacher would always make an example of me in front of the whole class. So I always tried to get as close as possible to the average, wishing I would stay under the radar of my teacher.
I can kind of relate. I try yo avoid winning by too much because I don't want to make others feel bad when they loose. At the same time, I'm very competitive and my self worth is tied to being good/the best at things. Growing up unidentified autistic, I always knew I was somehow "weird" and "different", and desperately wanted to fit in, be "normal", not stand out. I've always been at the top of most of my classes, which obviously made me stand out. And I used to think that others didn't like me because I did good in school. So when people said things like "lena gets straight As." or "you're so smart", to me that was a bad thing so I responded with "no, last year I got a B+ in my biology test" or "no I'm not smart". I didn't realise I was accidentaly belittling others by that until my best friend told me "if you're not smart, then what does that make me?"
Anyways, I really enjoyed your video, as always!
The timing of this video in my life could not be more perfect.
Absolutely!, I used to fear a lot their envy, and that they could hate me for that!. I would (and sometimes still will) hide my successes or other details of my life, even around people that are doing "better" than me (that could be economically, or talking about certain experiences) , but its because this also saves me from having to become the main focus of the conversation, as I may have to explain things in detail. That kind of stuff really stuns my mind.
Yes, shame has shaped much of my life. I still dwell on things that happened when I was a kid. I'm always looking back at situations obsessively and feeling shame. Not so much with winning, never had much experience with it, but I do have a feeling like I'm going to be hated when I win - like I can't handle it, out of control, like I don't know what to do if I win - I'm also more comfortable with loosing.
A couple of things have helped me a lot with shame.
One is realising that social self-consciousness and shame are deeply ingrained survival mechanisms and part of being human. If I frame those feelings that way it kind of depersonalises and distances them, I can accept their presence but without worrying so much about them.
The second is to realise what it looks like when a person doesn't have shame - it makes them a deeply limited and uncaring person. Some forms of shame, especially when intertwined with regret, come from deep sensitivity and caring for others and their feelings. So I can honour my caring nature while also redirecting my thinking to something constructive and self-supportive. With lots of forgiveness for my younger selves who didn't have my perspective.
I actually had shame on the other side of the coin and felt I always had to excel and win at everything to prove my existence was worthwhile. I am completely over that now though, thank goodness!
My favourite Training Partner was always the guy that was significantly better than me, but also "just a student". I didn't have to feel like I had to impress him, as he was not the teacher, but I knew I can give my all and will never even come close to hurting him. Loved that so much..
Oh and I remember how proud I was when I was able to lose on purpose without my little brother noticing! His joy about winning was my win, haha. But that is way easier done with a 7 year old than with peers..
When it come to shame for me, it's probably for the fact that the only attention I got as a child was when I did something wrong, underperformed or just stood out for being different. Even as the unwitting Aspie that I was, I needed attention and reassurance from my primary caregivers and peers but mostly received discipline or ridicule when I did something wrong, didn't understand or didn't perform as expected. That's why I became a perfectionist in my chosen field and made sure anything I presented was over the top. The shame of coming up short or not being good enough was more than I could bear. At 59, perfectionism and the shame of not being good enough are still prevailing themes in my life. In many ways, I do the work that I do for the joy of it but the fear of not making a good impression still haunts me. Same goes for my personal life and personal interactions.
99oooʻiooooookoiiio9oko ok ok ok innominate ok n mmh😊
I have been researching into emotions / emotional intelligence etc. for more than a year now, and still this definition of shame 1:30 hits so hard and so true it is absurd (so yeah VERY well explained)
57 yrs old now and spent a lifetime trying to understand myself. Being assessed now for autism and it makes so much sense but have spent/waisted a life trying to figure this out on my own.
Thanks for the insightful videos; they really are a great help.
As I listened to this presentation I realized how much I actually enjoy 'loosing'. I have never thought about it before but it certainly allows me to feel like I can genuinely am part of the group. Thanks fir your videos, I was diagnosed at 67 and finding resources like yours is very helpful
I had a very different experience with winning as a kid. Basically, I was so clueless about the reactions I was getting that I thought I was fairly good, but still somehow failing to impress. It’s not that I didn’t empathize with other kids… It’s that I thought differently and misread them. And because they thought I was an arrogant show off, they’d occasionally try to cut me down a bit by saying “You’re not so great,” and such. I’d take it at face value. So I tried even harder to win and excel at everything possible. Though to be honest, I also loved challenging myself and diving into things with my whole being.
But not team sports! I avoided those. They triggered the opposite - shame over losing and failure, because I was truly terrible at them. I can’t seem to ever be medium at anything, and I now realize that’s what most neurotypicals feel comfortable with, in that context.
But I didn’t understand back then. Throughout public school and even college, I collected accomplishments, accolades, sills, and talents. I was so lonely for so long, and I thought this would make me more likable, attractive, and desirable as a long-term, close friend. Boy was I ever wrong!
As you said, it’s different and better as an adult.
Sometimes I wish I’d understood it back then. It would have helped me and people around me in some ways. On the other hand, I never felt the need to hold back or dull my shine, and I could hyperfocus on things I loved.
Jeez, I haven’t even thought about this. I had basically the same experience. Thank you for sharing!
It’s crazy right, same.
U
thank u for heaps for this video man!
im struggling alot with shame lately now im working around the public and get lots of odd comments, everytime i try to confess my shame with people they downplay it, ive never seen anyone talk about shame in autism before, thank u!!
My son was bullied in a Christian private school were I placed him because I was worried he would be bullied some way. He was the sweetest guy you could ever meet. Girls loved him a lot of time he was only boy sitting with the girls! Some was jealousy but when one set of parents decided to put their son as a type of last report because of his behaviour into the school he was able to manipulate a few to his side. His best friend was a girl and she actually threatened to get them. Thank you Paul as his mom you help me see his side of the spectrum but I still can’t get him to watch this cause I’m mom what do I know. I’m going to get him here someday.
I’m not on the spectrum, at least not that I know of, but I’ve had the same shame trigger especially as a teenager. I was a bright kid and top of my class in almost every subject at school, and I started getting a lot of stuff wrong in response to teasing and some bullying from other kids. It really helped to go to college where I wasn’t the most intelligent kid on the block.
I don't know if I'm autistic yet. I'm exploring it and I wrote out a list of things for my psychologist. It was incredible to hear you talking about games and winning. I wrote exactly that on my list. I struggle to work out how hard to try, what's trying too hard, what's insulting letting people win. It's amazing to hear someone with such similar experiences.
Please get the best out of yourself! Don’t be ashamed. If you are a lovely and kind person. Don’t hold yourself down, you have the right to shine your brightest, and enjoy.
Other people feelings are THEIR unability to selflove.
They should learn to love their flaws and powers, and shine in their way.
Don’t let other people’s problems become yours.
You can’t please everyone.
People can also turn their negativity into inspiration to better themselves.
Lose the ones who can’t candle your succes and embrace the one who love you any way❤
Wow that's SO awesome I didn't know that happened to other people :D Just to make sure the people around me feel secure I not only lose I actively brag about being incompetent to help the people around me feel superior hoping that then they might not want to harm me...this is so familiar it's spooky
“To this day I will check out if I feel there is a risk that I might win”, I strongly resonated with this comment 😅
I’ve never had a competitive bone in my body and I never understood why people, friends and partners have been so competitive, until I got my diagnosis. I deliberately make an effort to lose in some games.
Great content, many thanks.
I'm shocked to hear that anyone else feels shame for winning. I feel this drive to make sure everyone around me feels happy. Even playing board games with my wife, I want to apologize when I win. She just wants to have fun and play a game. She doesn't want me to worry, "What if I win?" If anyone really wants to have a competition or play any kind of game, I feel terrible when I win.
I really enjoy your videos. Most of the time, I can somewhat relate, but not always fully. I've never been diagnosed with autism. It's only been the last few months that I've considered it. I'm 32 now. I have two boys, and my oldest (almost 4yo) and I have been diagnosed with a genetic mutation called KMT5B Related Syndrome. 60% of those diagnosed also have autism. My oldest was recently diagnosed with "mild to moderate autism." While watching videos and reading a lot for his sake, I realized I can relate to a bit of it too. When I was in college, I was diagnosed with ADD. And if that's also accurate, it makes things a little confusing, seeing some contrasting things with my previous understanding of autism. (There is a lot more to autism than I had previously thought. A lot of different signs). If I have autism, I mask well. I do like systems and prefer doing things a certain way. But I also really like spontaneity.
I would be excited to chat with people about some of these things, so I'm hoping this chat is still a little active. Like I said, I'm shocked that other people feel shame when they win. Thank you for sharing!
i had no idea that others felt this way too and i didn't realize it was shame. i hide the things im good at because i don't want to be too different
One of the happiest moments for my professional life was in a women in tech workshop where my team chose me to present our findings because I was (their words) "the best at speaking." I nailed it, told our story, and we were all proud. I really loved that I was winning and people wanted me to win because we were all winning together.
I've been unable to find this scenario in work life often
I can relate a lot to your shame trigger.
In social settings I tend to approach games and competitions as an opportunity to experiment and see how badly I can do something because I am so so so much more comfortable with losing than winning (except when I win by accident through some fluke).
In work settings if I sense there is a 'risk' that I will be shown to be a master more than my peers, I will downplay with self deprecating comments or say something like "this may be totally wrong but let's see what happens", basically hoping to fool people into thinking that it was a happy accident that I arrived at the solution to someone elses problem. My fear is that I make someone else feel inadequate and then get shunned for being a try hard or brown nosing.
I would even go as far as to say that I may have avoided trying some things that interest me like new hobbies because I know that I will excel at them and don't want that pressure and drain of having to try hard not to be good
yea, that feeling? just realized its shame. this is perfectly timed for me
I found this really interesting as I've never had a competitive bone in my body and these different ways of dealing with winning as well as losing are a complete and total eye-opener! I do understand shame, though, as my family gave me enough shame about who I am and everything I do to the point that I was a real mess for most of my life. It's only since finding out I'm an aspie four years ago that I gradually realised those shameful things are perfectly normal for us, lol, and my life has completely changed for the happier.
True! Absolutely hate winning when the other person is gonna feel bad about losing.
I relate to the shame around winning in the sense of academic success. During a test or assignment, I would often score really well, and this was a point of shame because I felt like it made my peers who didn't do as well feel bad about themselves. This is probably from being called a know it all, and seen as academically nerdy. Thank you for sharing about your stories!! It was helpful to relate.
Huge shame and anxiety trigger for me. People being jealous of me was something I tried to avoid and hide my skills, intelligence. Did that somewhat successfully in high school.
I was bullied in the workforce because people were jealous of my intelligence
Definitely relates to Tall Poppy Syndrome, especially in Australia where your difference and life journey is judged for being “too” ambitious or artistic.
"I'm good at everything!" is a cry for help... Definitely one that I can relate to completely!
Great topic! I'm autistic (late diagnosis) and also gifted with a high IQ. This meant that throughout my life I was always "winning" without even trying at things I was interested in. I eventually went to a (top) architecture school, one that was extremely hard to get into, and even harder to graduate from. I was still one of the very "best", and graduted cum laude. Though I was not always "the" best. It caused the sort of problems you describe, and I was generally despised by my peers because of it.
The thing is, I also have huge intelectual deficits. I have great difficulty with math and spelling. Social difficulties. I'm diagnosed as ADHD. I've struggled with severe anxiety and depression most of my life. I've never felt I was better than other people or even smarter. Quite the opposite. So being rejected and ostracised didn't make sense to me - I figured there was something wrong with me, but I couldn't figure out what it was.
Now I know: It's not that something was wrong - it's that I was different. So different that others feel bad about themselves in group settings with me. Now I live alone and no longer have to work (I retired in my 40s due to stress). It's lonely sometimes, but I'm much happier than when I tried to fit in by supressing my gifts. It's important to remember: You can't control other people or their feelings. Therefore, you are not responsible for them. Haters gonna hate, and there's little you can do about that, besides avoiding haters. Unfortunately, autism and it's outward social behaviors are viewed with hatred by many nuerotypical people. Our deficits become vectors for attack when our competencies appear threatening. This comes from a combination of instinct and ignorance on the part of NTs. I try to dispel the ignorance by disclosing my condition upfront, and explaining how it effects my social behavior. After that I figure it's abouth the character of the person(s) I'm dealing with. If it's lacking, there's little I can do but disengage from them.
Unfortunately, most people are not of strong charcter in this regard - at least in group settings. I do best in one on one settings, or in group settings where I'm the leader, and we are working together to achieve some goal. Unstructured social settings like parties don't work out well for me. Ever.
Oh my gosh, this is like the most relatable video ever. My brain is like a machine, I absorb data fast, can learn just about anything really quickly, see the big picture of things so quickly that I often get bored. I need challenge... So yeah, I have been sabotaging myself all the way, because I noticed for some reason people seem to get jealous of me a lot... There is always something about me they get jealous at. It's no fun. After jealousy comes hatred and resentment. I have been devalued a lot too, because when I am just me, people seem to get intimidated... I am so alone. Wish I could be around more minds like myself. Hate feeling like an alien.
For me it is recognition- not just for winning, but for anything, so I get it!
absolute resonance -- and to this day, I extend that to virtually all parts of life and have learned to put half effort or none at all, for fear of doing things - winning for example - too well. In just the past few months I am learning to build up confidence in my own skills -- before I found that I could only win or do something well if I pretended I was some other person. I share the self-sense that... why would anyone like me if I show my true self.
This honestly got reinforced for me due to bullying. People would constantly call me a know-it all and no one wanted to be around me because of it. I've noticed too that it's very easy for me to pick up new stuff and I am very self conscious about it.
Definitely relate to the shame of winning and being good at certain things/learning easily/low effort needed etc. I am proud of the awards I have received, but also feel shame displaying them and receiving them.
I can relate so much. The guilt & shame of being way above average, I've had it pointed out that by doing well I was making other people look bad, even though that was never my intention. I also love it when others are better than me because I get to try my best, which was more important than winning, I lack that competitive drive except for self improvement. I love your videos, it has been a very recent journey of self discovery to realise I'm autistic & you do a brilliant job of explaining things. So thankyou
Yes! I experience fear when it is apparent I’m going to win. I can’t cope with the resulting feelings of other peoples expectation. To react in shame upon being teased for winning is one (horrible!) thing, but feeling that subsequent wins will be expected…crushes me.
Looking forward to this video!
I had a very similar childhood, and i'm pretty sure i'm also autistic, but i am the polar opposite of you!
I remember being shamed as a child for being outwardly happy and proud of my results in a math competition - apparently i was bragging and i thought i was better than everyone else. While I couldn't care less about these people and their results. And many, many more such cases.
I responded to this by shutting down from my environment completely and focusing on trying to be better than everyone else, as well as developing delusions of grandeur, believing i was born under a lucky star. I wanted their admiration and respect, not their love and friendship. I was supposed to be special and the best at everything. Excessive praise from parents and teachers helped feed my ambitions. Needless to say,it was absolutely crushing every time i got bad or mediocre results! That's why i haven't had a consistent hobby outside of writing poetry in quite a long time - i get very easily discouraged by failure. I believe, paradoxically, people who don't like being the smartest or most talented person in the room have more potential for growth than someone like me, as they will constantly look to level up and be in community with those better than them, learning from them along the way.
What it’s resulted in is a huge fear of failure and never being good enough but also a fear of doing something too well and being looked down upon.
I needed to giggle so much seeing your video, as you verbalised my shame trigger so perfectly! I always felt very uncomfortable around competing /playing with girls (I am a woman, apparently by nature) as I was somehow naturally better at a lot of things compared to them and felt their pain when loosing (I am highly empathetic) and felt guilty for their pain. I actually wanted to be a boy in childhood for a long period of time and played a lot with boys. Here, I felt more comfortable as competing on common grounds/capabilities. I could be more myself, let out my energy, be wild and restless as I felt. Actually, still applies to today. I feel more at home and on ease socialising with men, but feeling out of my comfort zone socialising with women. I hate to be in the spotlight and be rewarded for my achievements. When I finished middle school as the best pupil in my generation and receiving my certificate in front of the audience...I wanted to run away, the pressure and eyes of all people were just too much. Imposter syndrome, my second name! When I dance with my friends in a club, I downsize my energy and moves just to "fit in", not coming across as bragging if I was to truly dance of how I feel. Can't take & accept compliments, I cringe, don't know how to react, want to make it stop or escape.
Your videos are pure butter for my soul Paul, finally finding home in a community, a sense of belonging! Not being the alien as I ought to believe my whole life
I can relate completely. I learned from an early age (because my mother told me so) that "it's not nice to win all the time" and that I should let someone else win (sister, cousin, visitor, etc.) once in a while. I learned to lose by a risky move, or to pretend I missed the good move, anything to get close to winning, because I enjoyed it. I'm not sure I really enjoyed the actual feeling of winning because others were sad or mad they lost (I'm an empath and feel everyone's feelings as if they're mine...). But I liked the fact that I tested myself at something and found I could do it well. As an adult, I don't play games that require a lot of social interaction because I can't keep up, but I still play strategy type games and prefer to play with people much better than me so I can learn something. I don't really play games for the fun of it - the fun part is learning a new word, or a new strategy, something useful. Does that make sense?
For me it was being punished and yelled at for the grave sin of reading ahead in the fifth grade. Taught me not to do as much as I could have, and that being better is being different and that's bad. I don't know if she was just having a bad day once and I was on the other end of that, maybe it wasn't reflective of her as a teacher or a person. But it impacted me. This was a visceral video. I can absolutely understand shame around succeeding especially significantly. Your situation being teased like that just sounded brutal. It hit me in the gut too just empathizing with your feeling like people will reject and abandon you and that your true self needs to be rejected or absolutely would be if shown. I really lived that life for a long time. Damn man. Thanks for making the video. It couldn't have been easy or comfortable.
I needed this video so much. Thank you.
I remember hiding being smart or good at things in elementary school, because that would make me a larger target. If I got noticed or recognized, they would make fun of me for it. Going into Jr high if you weren't in chorus you'd have to take a music class that sounded just awful and boring. so I had to try out for chorus with the music teacher. I get done singing and she's says " that was beautiful, how did I not know u could sing?" And I said (I breaks my heart an 11yr old said this now) " because if you're good at too many things around here, that's just another reason for them to hate you" ...I took it to such the extreme that I actually fell a lil behind for awhile. Better to do really well in lower track classes (with nicer kids) then higher track classes (with the rich b*tch bullies)
As an adult, I can make anything. Figure out how to make anything with no directions. Invent things. For a time I turned this into a very lucrative thing with teaching. So, to everyone out there who ever struggled with this, or any aspect of " fitting in" , find a way to make your quirk, work for you. In that way, u will gain confidence. You will have found where u fit...
It's so mad when you mentioned winning as a shame trigger! I can honestly say I have this but the reason if feel nervous about it is the fact that if I win, people challenge you. People challenge winners and I'm nervous about it! Also making other people feel upset about it!! It's so mad but so true in my life and maybe so many others life's as well!
I identified a great deal with many of your videos. I am 57 and only have become aware that I may be in the autism spectrum. In the past, I have done what you described when playing a game with others. I had also been wrongly described as being good at everything, but knew I was not. My brother happens to be very invested in winning games and would be angry whenever he lost. I began to “check out” of the game and was so relieved when I lost. My brother would be happy and I would be too since no anger came my way. I hated playing games from this childhood moment and if forced because of social demands, I would not invest myself and even try to lose so that I could prevent any problems with the other children. Haha. Thank you for your hard work at putting out these informative videos.
I certainly relate to this!! I was never athletic, but academically this exact thing happened! It got better finally once I got to graduate school.
I struggle with shame a lot for many reasons, but one situation where I heavily relate was stretching in gym class. I've always been super flexible (surprise, it's an autism trait ((also didn't know I was autistic until 22))) and every time we had to stretch in class boys would look at me and sexualize me and girls would say I'm showing off. Some days I wouldn't properly stretch to avoid the comments, but then I wouldn't feel ready for whatever activity we had. Was super frustrating and uncomfortable at the time and contributed to my multitude of anxieties around gym classes.
I have had winning AND losing triggers.
On the one hand, if I'm relatively better at everything the people around me disconnect from our shared activity.
On the other hand, if actually-skilled people include me based on reputation they soon notice my incompetence.
Is the only way to get by in certain areas to be mediocre? That sounds sad and is (of course) difficult.
Same! The reminiscent feeling of loneliness got triggered from this! I felt the need to match others’ pace to “survive” in society. It’s so limiting and heartbreaking *sigh*