Beware before buying memory for 12th Gen Intel
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- Опубликовано: 3 мар 2022
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I'd like to thank the community for beta testing DDR5.
Hahahaha perfect!
I greatly appreciate all of you beta testers. Looking forward to to my 14th Gen/DDR 5 upgrade from this 12th gen/DDR 4 build I’m currently on the rocking :)
Incoming AM5 users: 😬😬😬
@@MafiaboysWorld the struggle will be real
@@leosalonen1564 I'm just looking at 5800X3D, I already did the beta testing for original Zen (R7 1700), I don't want to do it again with AM5 AND DDR5. 🤣👍
I'm in the pc business over 2 decades.
Getting 64GB of cosair DDR 5 running at 5200 took approximately 5 different attempts from Amazon before I found 4 sticks that work together at the rated speed. It should not be this difficult... Update:....Something else I remembered. After 2 or 3 failed attempts and crashing in Win 11 Pro after Log In, it finally corrupted Win 11 to point that I could no longer recover. Has to restore a complete backup image using Macrium Reflect that I had created before attempting 64 gig upgrade. This was 3 months ago and once I got it stable with a "good" set it has been rock steady.
Random dies + bad bioses = 🤝
It like the good old days of ddr2.
Where the 1st gen was broken as hell.
This is why I wait a year or two, when new memory technology come out
I was worried about this platform i was going all in but turned around and just upgraded my Ryzen parts also my 10th Gen Intel is banging along just fine 10850k @5.1Ghz
@@haloharry97 iv been having trouble getting my ddr4 sticks to boot stable at the same speeds my 9900k did... 4000 with timings like 16 16 16 32 (dont remember exact) and one of my self reasons to upgrade to the 12900k was so my 4400 19 16 16 39 or w/e would be able to xmp lol...
Its been a bit since iv checked bios updates and tried above 3600 tho so im going to do that for fun tonight but it was a letdown even if the speed would not make that big a diffrence.
@@MrSolLeks am still rocking 3600mhz, c18, Ryzen 3700x.
Been thinking about upgrading to 5800x 3d
Or waiting for the next gen, have fun with a new motherboard and ram.
I've been looking at upgrading and I'm happy Jayz that you took the time to make this video. This highlight a problem with this, I hope this gets fixed soon but not holding my breath!
XMP is implicitly a CPU overclock, of the Integrated Memory Controller IMC. A boot loop is the easy case, it can also give you a random blue screen once per day. You should never blindly enable XMP and forget about it. You need to run a good memory test (like OCCT) and dial down the frequency if needed.
Yea xmp es no bueno. It’s just a lazy way to fry your computer.
@@hardtymz2517 yep learnt that before had constant crashing in games couldn’t work it out slowed it to 3400mhz no issue now I have ddr5 ram and 12700k we will how it goes.
Or get an motherboard that supports full power of any ram u buy so xmp works flawlessly?? Man stfu🤦♂️
@@Fiwek23452 yeah I brough a good quality gigabyte z690- pro ddr5 board it’s a lot more stable and can handle over clocking as we it makes a massive difference if you weren’t aware I’ve seen a lot of ryzen chips like ryzen 5 3600 having max ram speed of 3200 so 3600mhz can cause issues.
Sound like a skill issue@@hardtymz2517
Believe it or not... DDR3 came out at 800Mhz. Yeah. It did normalize around 1333Mhz, but there are still servers out there that can only run DDR3 800 or 1066.
And for those who know... many systems could only run DDR3 beyond 1600 if they were only running 2 sticks, 4 sticks or more locked ram at 1600 or below.
*edit- For the people who do not understand, DDR3 800 is in fact the Dual Channel Speed, You can look up the spec but DDR3 in single channel has a base clock of just 400Mhz.
I have one of those "800 or 1066" servers, running at 1333 for like 10 years :^)
My server runs ddr3 800 not quick but smooth
DDR4 standard is specified from 1600 to 3200 MT/s, but pretty early on the memory manufacturers were already at a level where 2133 MT/s was extremely cheap to produce, so this became the baseline. But the reason many "gaming" DIMMs run at 2133 MT/s is that's the speed the individual chips were sold as by the manufacturer. Basically Corsair, G.Skill, Kingston, Crucial or whatever brand order 2133 MT/s chips from Samsung, Hynix, Micron, and do some automated fine tuning to see which chip can reach what speed. There are DDR4 kits on the market that do 3200 MT/s without enabling XMP, just plug&play, and not every "gaming" DIMM runs at 2133 MT/s without enabling XMP
I knew I was taking a small gamble back when I built the FX-8350 system I use. I bought two 16GB kits of DDR3-1866 Kingston HyperX instead of a 32GB kit because the 16GB kits were on sale. All the ram makers tell you that they only guarantee ram sticks will work together if they were from the same package. But of course they charge way more than the cost of buying two kits of two sticks. I was lucky that both kits have worked together perfectly since I built the system ~9 years ago at 1866. I have never bothered with overclocking either the CPU or RAM, so I don't know if, for example, I would be able to get the ram to 2133.
the ddr4 in my laptop for some reason should be 2400mhz but its reading 1066 in hardware info and CPU-Z. it is soldered memory not a stick. its an asus but not showing anything in bios to change it
(These boot times will be in real-time so you can see how long it takes...)
Hard Drive users: What you think this is a fucking joke?
HDD users are a joke lol
If you use a HDD as a main OS drive in 2022 when even budget SSDs are peanut prices in most of the developed world you deserve to have a slow, garbage computer.
@@bluejay713 SSDs fail so rarely nowadays and will last a very long time usually before failing that that being a worry is so low it's not to be considered. I still have an SSD from 2010 that still works though I don't really use it anymore. Also, this is mostly an argument with using spinning rust drives as the OS drive. The operating system drive. What you have the OS on.
If you have actually important shit, it should be backed up at least 2 times. 1 copy is none, 2 copies is 1, 3 copies is 2, etc.
@@bluejay713 If you're using an HDD for gaming instead of an SSD because you're worried about the SSD failing then you need to seriously catch up with the times... That's an irrational fear at this point and the likelihood of it failing does not warrant using an HDD instead at all lol. All you're doing is severely blocking your gaming experience from it's true potential. The chances of any decent SSD failing like that on you are slim to none.
@@bluejay713 Usually I trim every 3 to 6 months depending on usage really. Even still, Windows auto-trims depending on usage as well to prevent SSDs from getting their cache and sets all bogged up. Haven't had an SSD fail yet, and a friend only had 1 fail cause he was doing extremely high amounts of read/writes and he actually got almost 50% more than the rated expected maximum TBW expectancy. (Think it was 1500 TBW rated but he got like almost 2500 TBW over the years until it conked out. But all the data was backed up so the loss was mostly monetary to get a new one that has even more TBW).
I remember this very same kind of thing being an issue on the initial Ryzen systems. I preordered a Ryzen R7 1700, ASUS Prime B350 Plus mainboard and some DDR-4-3000 RAM. After initially being annoyed with it, I quickly came to feel very lucky that the XMP profile actually loaded and ran the RAM at 2933 without issue after reading the general consensus on the Web in the following weeks.
I was lucky I got my R7 1700X to 2666 on 4 sticks cuz my 1600 wouldn't do more than 2133....ah those were the days. My 3900X is doing 2800MHz with 4x8GB sticks on an ASUS X570 I bought because uh well a B350M for a 3900X even stock was making me *very* nervous!
@@nateo200 I bought a really cheap second hand dual rank 2x16 GB DDR4 3200 CL14 Samsung B-die sticks for my R7 1700... on release BIOS they ran up to 2666 MT/s. After a couple of BIOS revisions they got up to 2933 MT/s. Swapped the B350 Tomahawk for a B450 Gaming Pro Carbon and got them to 3000 MT/s. Finally, swapped the R7 1700 for a R9 5900X and now they run effortlessly at 3200 MT/s. I've never been happier with a purchase, even if I had to wait 3+ years to get them to the advertised frequency :3
Just finished my build and am going through this issue right now. Praying your steps work
DDR5 is extreemly sensitive to everything. Motherboard layers. You can barely make some ddr5 6000 kits to work on 6 layer boards, while 8 layers can reach 6400. Empty slots, it's actualy better to have 2 ddr5 slots at all than 2 occupied and 2 empty. 4 occupied slots drop speeds. This is all yesterdays news, but bringing attention that ddr5 is not as easy as plug, xmp and play is important.
Yup those two extra empty slots actually act as antennae for noise not even accounting for the longer trace lengths.
To be fair gen one RYZEN was very picky about speeds. I have a server on RYZEN 2700 and Corsair 4 stick 32GB kit that really is not stable at 3000 XMP.
@@wayland7150 Ryzen 2700x is rated for 2933, so you're technically pushing past the boundaries lol. I'd try upping SOC voltage or DDR voltage slightly and go from there.
My 5600x actually needed a bit of work to get 3600 working on 16 GB stably which led me to finding out PBO +200 ISN'T always stable.
Using Corecycler to test it all out, I found without increasing voltages (not using anything but default PBO + 200) the max I could do is +100. Others caused Corecycler to error out.
@@VanillaWahlberg The 2700x is in a server, I think I'll just leave it as it is because it's reliable and that's the most important thing. When in a desktop it's not a big deal if I have to reboot or tinker with the BIOS because it has a screen.
Thank you for showing this in real time! It's really nice to see someone of your caliber, who works on these machines for a living have the same problems and frustrations that I have. :) Keep up the great work gentlemen! :)
Would love to see a vid explaining memory training and the process that's going on. Thanks for the content Jay! 💯
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Thanks for the feedback
Expect more videos very soon.
Send messages directly to the address above 💌📩 . I have a gift for you🎁🎊.🔝🔝🔝
Well done, Jay, that's going to help a lot of people out. For me, it was the extra cost of the DDR5 motherboard, then the DDR5 RAM, and then I heard of the posting issues - so I held back. I've opted for price & performance right now, I stuck with DDR4 and a 12th Gen. I went with a second set of Corsair Vengeance 3200Mhz (4x8). I'm a cheapskate and I had 2x8 already., switched on XMP, MCE and a mild BIOS pre-set overclock. It's been superb so far, very stable.
So would DDR-4 have no issues? (I'm considering 12th gen with 32gb ram ddr4)
@@Nathan_Daniel I've had this rig for over a year and teamed it up with my old 1080Ti (scalpers then, price/performance now) It's been absolutely rock solid as an Aorus 690 board, CPU, Ram and peripherals. Could easily go with a 40xx now as I overspecced the PSU. I'm not that up-to-date on DDR5 though.
@@MichaelThomas-be7gq ok thank you!
It's honestly reassuring to see you dealing with these kind of gremlins. Goes to show building with high end hardware ain't all sunshine and rainbows.
It is super nice to see the full edit, instead of skipping... I have had a lot of nervous moments waiting for a first boot without knowing what could have gone wrong.. I'm still half scared of removing my GPU because of problems I had when it first booted.
It's actually sad that this is still a problem a year later. Posting doesn't seem to be an issue, but you will definitely experience crashing.
Brah I just built a hand me down system for my sister with a 12700 and DDR5 6000 16x2 ram kit I used on my old build on a AS Rock Z690. Could only get working before at 5600. Now on this new MoBo I can’t get XMP working at all. Straight up doesn’t work unless it’s 3600 for Christ’s sake with no XMP. Newest bios too only a month old. Have tried swapping around the sticks, doing only 1 at a time. Nada. Might try rolling back to an earlier bios or using a higher XMP profile and down-clocking. This shit is ridiculous.
si es muy frustrante no puedo poner aun mis 4 módulos de 5600MHz a trabajar, debo apagar el xmp o sacar 2 módulos y quedarme con 32GB únicamente
I'm using the 5200 mhz corsair dom plat ddr5 in my 12900k pc using 2 sticks at 64gb. It's working great so far luckily 👌!! Hopefully in the future they will work the ddr5 bugs out! Thanks Jay!!
What are you cooling the i9 with? I have an i9-12900k that I don't want to use due to heat/everyday use concerns.
aio 240 2 bigs plus 1 in the back and the 3 in front does the job for me, and its got a 3090 in it thats also known to produce its load of heat@@cvaria
With pandemic and my father having health issues, I needed something to cheer me up. I went into a spending spree which actually made me feel better for a short while...
12900k with 4x16gb ddr5 5600 and rtx 3090. Also I decided to go full watercooling and do my first hard loop with it. So once I got all the parts, assembled the pc, bending and fitting those tubes, I went for my first boot.... Hdd Error Code D6 (asus formula MB). Q-code D6 is related to GPU so the hdd error was strange.
I didn't test the system before and thought it was the gpu not properly seated in motherboard because I went with active backplate. So I undo my loop and plan to redo it with vertical mounted gpu to fix this problem...
Once the system was drained and loop undone I decided to test to post the system at least before rebuilding the loop. Same Hdd Error Code D6... So there is not post happening just the D6 displayed on motherboard. Was starting to imagine I had broken my new 3090 by installing front and backplates... Decided to try with my tv and HDMI instead of PC monitor and DisplayPort...
It booted !! All the time the D6 code was coming from the DP cable :( Was working fine with my other pc that has a 2080TI so never suspected that.
Finally Installed windows without any issues, installed drivers and all necessary stuff. Then I go to enable XMP as I always do... it was at this moment I really knew I fucked up. Should have never spent my money on this stupid new platform. I found all the posts/threads about what you are talking about, man I wished I new before but I am really glad you are talking about it for those who are thinking of going there. I would have gone 5900X had I known because also this 12900k is crazy hot ! upgraded to 3x360mm radiators because 360+420 was not enough for cpu + gpu. Its winter but my room stays warm even with window wide open.
I cannot have a stable system with XMP, even with 2 sticks its the same as 4. All works fine but I get games randomly crashing after 30 minutes or 1 hour max + had a couple of bsod's... If I disable XMP its ok.
So I have redone my loop with softubing, disabled XMP and am hoping for a new bios release or drivers to fix this.
Sorry for English errors, its not my main language. Thank you Jayz you are a great person and I love what you do
yeah for gaming 12900k temps are fine but heavy workloads it gets pretty damn hot depending on your chip, cooling, and overclock. If you are having temp issues just lower the overclock. Running 5.1 all core vs 5.2, with lower voltage, my temps dropped significantly. I just dont use it for workloads so I dont mind pushing to 5.2. DDR5 was a bad idea though cant help you there. I have ddr4 sticks that do 4000c14 so I just bought the strix d4 board and kept using them. Maybe you can sell the board and ddr5 and get a ddr4 board and ddr4? Might be worth it. Very fast ddr4 is pretty cheap compared to ddr5. You can get like 32g gskill 3600c14 for $380 on newegg and they are 1.45v so you can overclock those to 4000c14 most likely
The main issues I've had were horrendous cpu bending and ram issues. Altho with the far lower powerdraw over my ryzen system 100w idle vs like barely any power being drawn on my i3 I am glad because prices foe electricity have gone crazy. And apparantly the governemts also taxes 21% on top of it now so big oof.
Tld: new computers just suck in general.
@n k MSI new bios doesnt fix issues with ram compatability on 4 sticks using ddr4.. after xxx years they still cannot fix slow 3600 mhz xmp issues
hhhmm ok
as this thing of ddr5 after a few thinkings and time hit the ground of my thoughts
naahhh
to do a change from 9900k to 5.1ghz 12700k was honor enough to do for me . . . / also afterwise
Gigabyte z690 gaming x ddr4 at 200$ and got !up to 21° on idle 5,1ghz without any power restrictions with an matterhorn cooler at 10$ 4 years old - lil' scratched out one mounting hole to be able mount, i could not be happier.
'happy' what the morherboard has as connections for it's price.
9 usb backside, hdmi and DP, and 4!times nvme . . .
my first board and cpu bought as new
since my first AMD Athlon XP, core2duo, 2500k, 3770k, 8700k, 9900k,
i think guys who are no millionáres
buyin' 12900k and ddr5 , gone wrong
got just not enough information
and a hole in their money pockets, sayin' lets charge us 3000 for a computer . . .
so i got 12700k on 5.1 and 4 ghz with an 750€ 2080ti strix . . .
(cause my 750€ rtx3080 broke)
and what? can i not game or what?
what do this 'very rich guys' do with the performance for the other 1500$ they spent
benchmarkin' everyday ? [nope]
i'll bet they forgot their monitor.
(cause it's all you can see from your pc)
Gaming with 270HZ wqhd 27" here, TN 1ms, with 3 ms max on the pixel for real, cause max. overdrive.
non of smearing- cause guess NO IPS
n' also no overshoot
so i won't get sick
newest product i bought
the WD SN850 500gb as windows storage
188 mb/s in random 4k / userbenchmark !
could use some help to get my red/silver 3600 cl16 g.skill's up to something whatever with less latency! 4 years old, but they can do better then xmp
but i can't
glad that that's what's 'really' poor for a technical and human standpoint
@@fredlakota3595 My msi x570 Tomahawk runs 4 g.skill Ripjaws 16gb 3600 with a 5950x rock stable. After setting xmp, just set 1.35v manually on the bios fixes the small instability with my editing software exiting to the desktop. Maybe it could help you,
A fun side note about this whole debacle about ram is the voltages.
Even on the older DDR4 Comet lake 10th gen chips.
Just turning on XMP wasn't enough to get some memory specs to post.
You have to adjust the voltages yourself and not just the dram voltage.
You have other voltages in the bios that control the rams ability to train and post.
For comet lake it was SA/IO voltage cause those were the memory controller voltages and they directly impacted your ability to post with high frequency/high capacity.
But for amd/ryzen it was SOC voltage.
So just a heads up for people. Don't completely believe all of these posts until you've exhausted every resource you have.
If memory serves ddr5 modules have a voltage controller onboard the module itself . I wonder how this will effect changing voltages in bios or if some manufacturers will lock that down or limit user input .
This is more likely to be a bios issue or WORSE a fact that the board itself is not capable of running at the higher speeds. 6.2GHz is a clock pulse that is 0.08ns (half wave) and that is where the device needs to transmit / receive the data..
he problem could be something as 'simple' as the controller having insufficient drive capacity to drive the common signals to the sticks at that speed. This will turn into a silicon lottery when combined with devices with lower input capacitance, higher output drive and stability
I figured there was a way to make it work, but for most people that kind of tuning is well beyond their ability/comfort level.
There are lot of complaints on new ASUS socket 1700 DDR4 boards with B660 or H610 chipset. Paired with low Alder Lake CPUs, it's nearly impossible to get any RAM to work above 3400MHz, forget about XMP. BIOS updates didn't fix it so far. Voltages regulations are limited on these boards, so the only solution is to tighten timings.
I found that even on my recent Ryzen build I had to adjust voltages even after XMPing the DDR4 RAM. It took me all night to find the sweet spot and I'm glad my B-Die RAM offered me a wide spectrum of choices to dial in. So yes, I agree: You have other voltages in the BIOS that helps control the RAM's ability to train and post. It took me all night to find what I was looking for but that's part of the fun. :)
15:04 A great explanation of the process 👏
Wonderfully done. Thanks for making this great FYI video. I would like to see a follow up video with in depth testing of all the settings.
🌟Thanks for watching
Dm to claim your prize with address above^^^
I remember looking into various mobos for the X570 chipset from AMD and a few of them were rated to 4800 or 5100 MHz with 2 sticks but only 3600MHz with 4 sticks. You have to check all that sort of thing when you're buying a mobo.
Man, I really wish I knew about this before I got so excited to build a new m-ATX rig! My current Asus TUF B550M motherboard just will not post at anything above 3600MHz with all 4 slots populated, but it'll happily do 4600MHz C19 with only 2 sticks in.
@@L3xCin huh, that's the same model motherboard I have that's currently populated with 2 DIMMs of 3200 cl16 for budget reasons. Good to know there's a LOT more headroom.
@@L3xCin set bios to 2T command rate with gear down mode disabled (or 1T with Gear down mode enabled), should fix your issue, unless its a really really bad board for ram clocking. Pretty much the problem is that using 4 sticks of ram makes for bad signal reflections in the traces and some boards are really hard to tune around this.
@@L3xCin Did you buy 2 kits of 2 sticks or 1 kit of 4 sticks?
@@L3xCin tbf you proper get more performance out of 3600 than anything higher because you desync the infinity cache over around 3800-4000mt/s.
10:25 the card is so heavy it's visibly sagging, the white M.2 heatsink only makes it stand out more 😅
Thank you Jay! So relieved this wasnt just me having these issues.
I purchased 2x2 sticks G.SKILL Trident Z5 2x16gb 6400Mhz CL32 (32-39-39-102), 64gb total, for my ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO board.
The board only worked with one set, so ended up returning the other set.
Same motherboard here. I just put 4x 32gb ddr5 6400mhz corsair vengeance in it on 12900k and runs like a charm, but at the processors max speed of 4800. Didnt even bother trying to use xmp , ill be ready for the 14th gen I guess . Ironicaly I had problems running my 4 x 16gb of ddr5 5600mhz still corsair vengeance , but using xmp to get em to 5600, even 5200 wasent stable.
If you check the boards manual MSI clearly states this for a 4x8 config: "2DPC 1R Max speed up to 4000+ MHz"
2dpc = two dimms per channel aka 4x8 in this case, 1R means 1 rank aka one side of the ram sticks has ICs on it the other is empty which your ram is
compare that to what the board says for 2x8 1R: "1DPC 1R Max speed up to 6666+ MHz"
so idk why youre expecting to run 2x8 speeds on 4x8, a quick look at the manual would have shown you that youre epxectations are way too high
Basically motherboards rent able to run ddr5 well even at is current speeds, never mind the future dimms we got to see records of hit more like 10k
It's not just DDR5 that has those issue, if you look at the memory qvl on an Asus z590 hero for 11th gen you'll see that the board is rated up to 5333mhz with 2 memory sticks but only 4000 with 4x8.
@@criticalhartzer my point was that these are close to base speeds for ddr5, while ddr4 started at 2400 or 2133MTs, I honestly don’t remember which, boards are mature enough to support close to or even double those speeds even with all slots populated. DDR5 is too new and it’s base specs are hard to run in a fully occupied memory topology, never mind any overclocking. This is a problem because it shows we do not currently have a good solution at any price to run the upcoming 8,400MT/s or higher sticks and kits, which means that we are effectively still stuck close to ddr4 performance and we need to figure out a way to achieve those transfer rates without enormous costs. I doubt it will be solved quickly in the cost domain but perhaps it will be possible soon with extremely prohibitive pricing.
we have two different problems here 1)ddr5 is 2 channels per stick so technically you cannot have more than 2 sticks 2) on ddr5 clockspeed matters a lot more than timings running ddr5 at 4400 is like running ddr4 at 1666 it's a giant NO so NO NO and NO you cannot run 4 sticks of ddr5 they should only have two slots but that would have killed Intel sales so they LIED and sold you hardware that cannot do what they adevertised it's a scam a scandal
Another reason I'm kind of glad I got the 12th gen DDR4 setup. I did have to BIOS update my ASUS board to get XMP to behave, but it's been shiny every since. And way more affordable right now.
What board did you go with?
@@dklien6443 Definitely not ITX!
@@dklien6443 TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI D4
@@Solkre82 how did you update the bios? my board exactly the same as yours came up to date and armor crate sees no new bios updates
@@dioxinvapor1495 I wouldn't say we're entirely safe from these issues. My DDR4 board absolutely freaks out any time I change a bios setting. Even after BIOS update I had to manually change some timings and voltages after XMP to get it to post.
Great video. I appreciated seeing the real-time troubleshooting. Please do a video on memory training sometime!
you've mentioned doing a memory training video a few times (and not just in this video) i'm wondering if you ever did? or have plans to soon. that is a topic i'm very much interested in, and would love to watch.
Thanks Jay. and love the content!
"Memory problems need to be addressed"...I see what you did there.
Lol, was browsing the comments to see if anyone else got it
12:36 The "clear CMOS" is voice-activated, Jay. A cutting-edge feature as befits a $600 board. ;)
This reminds me of with my 4th Gen i7 intel Build with DDR3 RAM. When I went from 2 sticks to 4 it put a lot more strain on the memory controller to the point where it would boot but Windows would be unstable so I had to overvolt the RAM from 1.5 to 1.65V and it was stable at the XMP speeds.
Thanks for the vids! I've learned so much this week (despite 24 years working in IT lol)....I was just about to pull the trigger on 2 sticks of 6200 for a 12900k build and because of this I was able to find the compatibility site for the manufacturer (the google fu got a workout on that one) and learned that the motherboard I am using will not accept anything above 5600 yet. Saved me some money. Now I just need to find out if it will let me do 64G or not lol..I might drop back to DDR4 yet but I was hoping to go ahead with 5 in case I can increase speeds significantly later on. Building a video editing machine and don't want to drop a ton of money later to change boards....but maybe it will be good enough with DDR4?
Great information. I am building a 12th gen and was just about to order 4 sticks of 6200. U just saved me a lot of money!
I'm actually glad to see that there's still high performance ram that doesn't come with rgb. It's just another thing I have to figure out how to turn off.
Its out there, you just have to look. I'm not into RGB either, so none of my stuff has it. My kit is Corsair Vengeance 32gb DDR5 5200
Yeah I don't understand why he was so baffled at some ram coming without added nonsense.
@@malphadour hyperbole
Why? Everyone knows RGB brings extra performance, better fps, reduces lag... Combine it with a gaming chair and your CPU will run cooler, the ram faster, your hair will grow, your car will be clean etc etc.
@@YawnMK1 You may be onto something here. I bought some Noctua Chromax 140's, absolutely no RGB on them, and I noticed my car is definately not clean. Not even gonna talk about my hair (pesky office chair....)
I’m not sure if you mentioned it but I came across an Intel, I will say “note”, that mentioned more sticks per channel would cause lower top/stable memory speeds in the memory controller. Might’ve been Dell stating this for an Intel server. But wasn’t Intel doing this since whatever platform had the three channel controller?
It's in the datasheet for alder lake. Two dimms per channel is only validated to something like 3600.
I'll just say this isn't unique to Intel, the CPU arch, or memory generation (though it'll depend on all of those factors). Memory ranks tend to play a much greater role than physical DIMMs (e.g. 2x 2-rank DIMMs = fine, 4x 1-rank DIMMs = fine, 4x 2-rank DIMMs = nope).
Also, if something isn't listed in the spec or QVL, it doesn't necessarily mean it won't work. E.g. I can run (non-QVL) 4x dual-rank Samsung B-die at XMP settings without issues, but the maximum overclock is a lot lower compared to 2x dual-rank due to the IMC struggling with 8 ranks, even though the DIMMs are individually capable of higher speeds.
This seems to be the case for all cpus, it’s better to run only two sticks for high speed stability (which is why the EVGA Dark board only has two slots for an atx board)
Reminds me of the bulldozer days. 4 sticks at hot speed? Gfy
It should boot at 4800 for sure. I only have 4 16gbs of 5600 and will just boot loop anything over 4800
I'm hoping to build a computer with my kids. I've learned a ton watching your videos. Thank you
Buildzoid went so far as to state in a video that he believes DDR5 boards should only have 2 slots by default because of how ridiculously difficult it is to run 4 sticks. This has always been a bit of a problem even with DDR3 and DDR4, but the huge jump in clock speed with DDR5 has made things really, really bad.
Well he said it's harder to OC with 4 sticks on any platform.
Yeah that's what I was going to say, it's always been a bit iffy running 4 sticks of ram; if you did so, you wouldn't expect to run at XMP unless you were lucky or the platform was well established. I'm also wondering if Jay checked that these sticks are on the motherboard's qualified hardware list.
For DDR5 the trace length is too difficult to have short enough for much of an overclock past the highest memory clock spec
But DDR5 can have 64GB per stick easily and so 2 slots is enough 4 slot is mainly for future upgrade and most dont upgrade they straight up replace or for some stupid reason use 4 from the get go
AM5 shouldn’t have these issues as the IO die can be moved closer to the RAM modules internally and pin layout adjusted for it
But DDR5 is premature garbage
DDR5 is like have PCIe 5.0 speed but the latency and iops of Sata
It just sucks because the CL is just absurdly high
I'd be ok with only 2 sticks. The capacities are well above what most people need right now on DDR5 and by the time we need more capacity per stick will increase.
I think most people fill the slots just for looks. I can't leave empty ram slots otherwise every time I look at the computer it bugs me and a lot of my friends are the same way.
@@koyagami932 yeah 64GB per stick is easy and 128GB per stick will be possible in 2-3 years
So 2 sticks is 128GB today pretty much and 256GB for 2 sticks in the nearish future
Hell i only have 2 sticks but they are 32GB each and dual rank but i get better performance out of my RAM sticks than i would out of 4 sticks because of how the wiring works 4 ranks 2 sticks is negligible different than 4 single rank sticks but the motherboard traces are shorter with just 2 slots contributing to that
Excellent, so great, applies to DDR4 somewhat too because of quality assurance issues. Every home PC builder should watch this. Good job Jay (bios reset on back bad idea for most users honestly)
Yeah, I wouldn't want a button to clear all my overclock settings sticking out of the back with all of my peripheral connections, but I am not a benchmarker 😂
How does this apply to ddr4??? I’ve never had any issues building ddr4 12th gen systems. Ddr5 is a $&:t show tho for sure
I had to bump up the voltage a bit on my z690 DDR4 board to run at 3600mhz, it would t work with the voltage XMP gave it. I think maybe the new gen memory controller is more complex and just needs a bit more power.
Hence why Intel and AMD (likely) test by JEDEC standards. XMP/DOCP are primarily marketing (i.e., YMMV)
I have a bios reset on the rear I/O for 13+, and 7+ year old boards never an accident, it's not like a power button, it's more like a pin reset button, not easy to press. You almost need a paper clip to press it. Makes it very easy.
Great video! Very helpful to see the raw frustration to reach compatibility/stability. But, although you reach peak performance of the RAM on a 12th gen processor, are we really getting the TRUE performance of it, ie: isn't the processor only capable of 4800? Isn't that the weakest link? Perhaps you can help us understand how these adjustments overcome the speed limitations of the processor itself. Thanks!
Ram can be effected by CPU but normally you can much higher base line is around 6000 now . Going higher than 6400 can be a challenge. Also ram speeds on packaging is for two sticks of your wanting four stick you have to run it at a lower speed.
I was on the fence between an older 5950x or a 12900k system for what I am building. I was looking for 4 sticks, but now I think I will just stick to 5950x due to this, and also the power consumption/heat of the 12900k, as it's a big upgrade from where I am at. Tempted to wait for Ryzen 7000 CPUs, but I don't think I can wait a few more months. Thanks, Jay.
I have a 5950x and it doesn't like 4 sticks either, most likely because the motherboard has a daisy-chain memory topology (Crosshair VIII Hero)
Well, between it initially not working and now has been over a year and I didn't really test it again after a bunch of BIOS updates, so your mileage may vary.
Currently I have 2x16GB at DDR4-3733 16-16-16-28
I've had it run *seemingly* stable at DDR4-3800 same timings and lower RFC, but the RAM (Samsung B-Die) got into uncomfortably hot territory (~60°C) which is why I am now using 3733
Hope that's useful for your buying decisions
@@insu_na Thanks for the feedback.
As always, the safest bet is to wait until more platforms support DDR5 and it becomes more stable and reliable.
Exactly run 2xdimms if decent speed DDR4 on a midrange board n chill.
Adjust your cas you will be fine, he bought sticks that weren’t timed for 4x sticks(the kit max is 16gb x2 for those). He was using XMP so we know he was not adjusting it.
Couldn’t tell if he was using xmp3 either, some are using 2 and tables are not the same.
Some ddr5 has had faulty PMIC.
I am using 64gb in 2 different pc’s with the 690 chipset, 12900. It’s fine after training.
Data transfer speed and clocks speeds are two different things . Intel memory controller can handle data speeds up and over 8000mhz, clock at 4800+ soon(already at 4800), maybe he got a bit confused with what he was reading.
Pretty sure he said they were ddr5-6400 indicating the data transfer rate which is well under the maximum operating speed a 690 can handle.
This is what happens when you double the data rate, we have seen this exact thing in the past. We are now doubling, the double data rate.🤨
He could also be using a motherboard that doesn’t support the extra ranks from ddr5’s extra channel. However this is not a chipset or memory issue.
It seems to be the case whenever a new ram jump occurs, there was issues with DDR4 when it first came out too, and the timings were far looser on it than DDR3, so it was hardly worth the price. It's best to wait until late 1st gen or 2nd gen when it's stable, higher frequencies, solid with the CPU's, and timings tightened up.
Also just don’t turn on xmp. It never worked out too good to begin with. Support is draggin
Or check the MB's QVL.
4800MHz is the top end speed that Alder Lake officially supports. Might be why is went back to that instead of 4000MHz.
can you even get anymore performance from the cpu by going over 4800mhz? LTT even did a video about the sweet spot on DDR4 was 3200mhz. whats the sweet spot going to be on DDR5 before all that money is like wasted?
@@Albertrossy ddr4 runs at lower latency than ddr5. The reason why there isn't much difference between 4 and 5 is that the speed of ddr5 is held back by its latency.
@@GahloWake Yep.
In some scenario, bandwidth is what matter most, but in *most* scenario performance will be more impacted by latency, which is in function of the speed and timings.
A 6000MHz C36 DDR5 kit have ~12ns, while 10-12ns is mid-range for DDR4 and samsung b-die DDR4 can quite easily reach sub 8ns (3800C14 is ~7.37ns).
Sure overall a higher speed at similar latency is better, but a vastly lower latency will usually yield better performances overall
4800 is the lowest jedec spec for ddr5 too. So I'm not sure where Jay got the 4000 from.
always check out ur older videos JayZ there's still tons of great stuff one can learn.
I really enjoyed tis video. Lots of great info, and the real time demonstration of the POST experience added to it, because you could see how many people would believe the RAM or motherboard was faulty when it reached its fifth loop. You could see how many of us would be getting very frustrated. The auto turn on by the ghost in the machine was pretty weird.
There's nothing surprising about this, those are not CAS timed 4x sets. You can probably increase some voltages to the memory and or adjust CAS timings. This was a common issue about 10+ years ago with DDR2 and DDR3 unmatched sets.
It's pretty surprising to me that they've rapidly gone through new generations without bothering to vet compatibility, especially considering the minimal issues that came with DDR4.
So this means the XMP settings are not tested by the brand, and they are faulty.
Are we getting screwed here?
@@N0N0111 .. Not at all, it means the XMP settings are tested for the KIT that you purchased. There are Corsair 4x16GB > 5000 MHz (5200MHz C38) available. The actual DDR5 standard BASE speeds include:
DDR5-4800 (PC5-38400)
DDR5-7200 (PC5-57600)
We have a Pandemic and global production is / was extremely affected. Frankly I'm surprised there's as much of a supply as there is today. I was "Jaquith" on Tom's Hardware for years and my specialty there was RAM. My advice then, now and always has been anything above base speeds never mix sets.
its an issue today too with high speed ddr4 dimms,i have 2 kits of 2x8gb 4400mhz cl19 that i run at 4000mhz cl16 because dimms need to be matched at high speeds.
using 2 identical kits at 3200mhz though worked fine.
@@DJaquithFL What I would like to know, when you buy DDR5 6000 4x kits and they are on the QVL list for your motherboard. Are there still scenario's for failure getting the advertised speeds working?
If yes then why are these kits that expensive while they can't work on those speeds. And how is it possible they put the kits on the QVL list. I would say that is pure misleading marketing.
If no, then people are just buying random DDR5 6000 X4 kits and hoping for it to work on their motherboards which is their own fault for not following guidelines.
It’s likely the sticks are dual rank because they are higher memory capacity sticks. So with 4 dual rank sticks you are pushing 8 ranks and that is really hard on the memory controller, and it won’t likely post at XMP speeds. If you use single rank sticks, you can likely run 4 sticks for 4 ranks at XMP speeds.
DDR5 is dual channel per sick (and therefor dual rank or quad rank per stick), but yes the same issue is applying here
so basically it sucks because MB doesn't support it all yet... seems a bit dumb to me
You are correct. I had the same issue for zen2.
@@insomniacbritgaming1632 it sucks because MB will never support 4 sticks..the 4 slots and the advertised capacity is a lie a scam, you can use 2 sticks periods, jayz video is really bad at conveying that truth
@@fredEVOIX I feel the same, the MOBO box should have a huge sticker saying "YOU WILL ONLY BE ABLE TO USE 2 DIMM SLOTS, NOT ALL 4, BUYER BEWARE"... I got dupped and got 4 x 16 instead of 2 x 32, now I'm stuck at 4000 MHZ.
First boot after RAM extension is always slow in any system. I think the resolution for this is to decide how much RAM you want and buy it as set. In DDR5 looks like with higher capacity the frequency is going down.
This video is going to save a lot of people some heartache dealing with DDR5. I purchased two 32GB kits of Corsair 6200MHZ RAM when it launched last month. I went through all the same issues trying to get XMP to work with 4 sticks. After realizing that wasn’t going to work I played around with the settings in the BIOS to find the highest frequency that would allow all 4 sticks to function properly. The best I could get was 5600MHZ without any crashes. I ultimately decided to send one kit back and swap to an overclocking board with just two DIMM slots.
If you look on the specifications on that motherboard, it specifically states the memory it supports. There's very few it actually supports when it comes to using all 4 DIMMs. All the memory it does support fully is 4800MHz max. So if I built a computer I would just make extra sure to read all the documentation, and everything should work as intended.
Valid point, but I honestly would have no idea what would be wrong if I bought two kits of ddr5 at 5600Mhz and tried enabling XMP. This has created a lot of drama on Twitter (lol), so I think mobo manufacturers need to be much more transparent about this, or find a solution that will allow you to perform this operation. Like I’m honestly lucky that I decided to buy a motherboard with only two dimms since I noticed ddr5 has way more capacity per stick, and 4 sticks would be too much money and capacity for my needs.I know you don’t need all 4, but I typically would’ve been OCD enough to splurge the cash to fill all of the DIMM slots lol.
@@joselaba Ye, I can agree that it doesn't shove the information in your face really. But I'd say they're still very transparent.
The compatibility list on the webpage goes through every single DDR5 manufacturer and model, and says quite clearly which ones can be used in 1, 2, and 4 slots.
As you said, it could be clearer, but as this info would need to be constantly updated and changed, its hard for them to ship it with the manual.
@@JustChiffer yeah true, an explicit disclaimer to refer to the compatibility list would be nice at least.
How many people actually check the list or even know it’s there other than an enthusiast
@@One_Eyed_Bandit that’s exactly my point, even as a “rookie” enthusiast, I had no idea.
Love your video. I have encountered the same problem since the Intel X79 platform. And in Hong Kong, we can’t just return the RAM if it doesn’t work. Back in those days, I will just have to sell the memory online and bought a new kit.
My two cents, I ALWAYS check the QVL (Qualified Vendor List) on the motherboard company website before purchasing. They usually mentioned which RAM kits are qualified to run with 4, 6 or even 8 sticks of RAM. It usually mentioned by running in multiple pairs, what memory speed are qualified to run at those speed. And it is not uncommon to see they have to run at slower speed or timings to make it work. It works for me every time. Check before you buy.
Those micro centers in the intro looks way nicer than mine haha
yo, all them videos about radiator placement in relation to hoses.... and you've got them going in the TOP!
Ong
This is why staying on a Platform for more than 2 Generations is a Great Thing. You have super mature motherboards to choose from and all you have to do is Slot in your new CPU. I hope Intel supports LGA 1700 for 4 Generations like AMD did. That would be a huge selling point as CPUs get faster and Higher end CPUs from previous Generations get Cheaper. We'll see what Pat Decides.
It's been amazing riding out AM4's full lifespan, probably my most fun time as a PC enthusiast. Started with an ultra budget R3 1200, in a B350 Pro4, with 2x4gb 2666 DDR4, and an RX550, just to dip my toes in the water for minimal money with the brand new platform, and that lil 1200 was a lot of fun to mess around with, got it stable up to 4.05-4.1 stable later into gen 1's life.
Upgraded that to a Microcenter $90 R5 1600 - also an awesome CPU, legendary at this point, all time great budget CPU.
Then upgraded to an R5 3600X, which just runs effortlessly doing any typical daily task, PBO is a thing to behold.
And going to ride AM4 out into the sunset with either a discounted 5900X or splurge on a 5800X3D.
It's hard to argue against being able to go through such a progression. Have upgraded mobos once(for M.2 slots & header options, B450) and will make the jump to either a mid-range B550 or a discounted, possibly used X570 if I make the final CPU upgrade. By the time I'm thinking about upgrading to a new platform, it should at the very least be by the 2nd gen of AM5 & 3rd gen of Intel's hybrid architecture if not a later than that even, and I'll probably choose based on platform longevity again based on how the AM4 experience went. In fact, I may still consider getting an ultra budget Intel 12th gen system or ultra budget AM5 system just to play around with like the 1200/B350 system, but everything is just so much more expensive now though. 'Ultra budget' isn't what it used to be, even being a wheezy 4c/4t, the 1200 was still a great value given how cheap B350 & DDR4 was.
Yup, I'm still on a 2700X and it's showing its age in a way but it still does the job I need it to.
I'm still on LGA 1151 lol. My next upgrade will probably be to 11th Gen. I'm trying to stay 2 to 3 generations behind on purpose. Let the folks dropping buttloads of cash deal with the issues. I'll just sit back and continue gaming lol.
Exactly. I started with ryzen 3 1200 . Upgrading without motherboard swap is a joy
It’s why i upgraded recently to ryzen 5000 over 12 gen or waiting till 7000 ryzen and i think a ryzen 5900x will last until i upgrade in 2-3 years went from 2700x but at least all the kinks were worked out with r5000 amd chips
Thank you for this, I had just gotten an additional 2 sticks of G.Skill 6000 Mhz for four total, I then suffered this very problem. I managed to come to this same conclusion myself after about 3 hours of fussing with it, only to realize that it was all for naught. As of now I'm going to hold onto them, and see if there's any fix that goes through. Either through a BIOS update or otherwise, worse case scenario that will save me from having to repurchase them again in the future.
Gave me some insight as to what to try in the event I needed the capacity in the future, thanks again.
Edit: This video also got me to subscribe, so nice timing.
"Nice timing" ;-)
Only just realised the thumbnail text was a pun. Strong dad game there, Jay.
If you ever want to build a PC for a vet that is disabled I would like to be a contender. It doesn't need to be a gaming computer just enough to do video editing.
I like that you've kept the same set of peripherals around for a while. I don't want to switch everything of mine to corsair but that monitor seems super nice.
He uses logitech setup in his home
If you are thinking of upgrading your monitor I would wait. OLED monitors are on the verge of being affordable and if you have never used one trust that it makes a BIG difference.
@@RRGreiner I’m on the fence with OLED for pc use. I would like to see some more Mini LED options too. 1440p still seems like the sweet spot for my use but if we get cards running 4k around 120 fps soon i’d def try one.
A valid point. Even with a 12900k and 3090 I don't often see 120fps on the c1 oled.
Kinda saw this coming just before the release of 12th gen last year, all the factors such as scheduling tasks correctly for E & P cores, adopting windows 11 and DDR5 made me consider that this platform will have a lot of growing pains. Therefore I weirdly decided to build a new system with an 11900K, DDR4 at 4000MHz on Windows 10 just before the 12900K came out. And I have to say I'm actually very happy with my new build :)
Jay said his dodgy RAM under 10th gen worked excellent under 11th gen so you made a good choice.
I did the same thing… decided to skip 12th gen for now… maybe will upgrade when they are at 13 or 14th gen
I just went 12th Gen with an Asus board, so still DDR4. No complaints here!
In contrast to the Rocket Lake ridicule, my 11700K rig (with 2 x 32GB 3200MHz CL16) handles everything I throw at it very well. And with Asus AI Overclock enabled, it runs at 11900K speeds without hassle. So, no Alder Lake jealously for me.
Jay, you need to hold the power button down past its shut down point to keep it off. It has something to do with 12th gen MSI boards. I don't recall having this issue with my MSI Z390 MB.
Watching this video has made me very happy about my decision to stick with DDR4 for my 12900K system.
ngl the black/white combo on those dominator sticks is pretty fresh
Remember to tell people to look at the QVL on the companies website. That way they know what is supported before they buy ram.
Exactly
So are the QVL's 100% correct for DDR5, and do we know for sure they always work as listed?
@@N0N0111 at least the company that makes the boards says they do. If there is a fault they can cope. But just throwing something together and „hope for the best“ is NOT a strategy and purely dumb.
This especially applies to early adoption of DDR5. Once the platform matures though, and there's plenty more choice of quality sticks available, along with improved BIOS support and memory controllers, the QVL becomes more of a guideline than a rule.
QVL for my motherboard says it will support 8x8GB @ 4000MHz(DDR4). Which is strange, because my ITX board only has two slots
I think most MSI boards have a red light on them that's on when XMP is enabled. I remember being confused by it in the past
That 12th gen computer you've got there is gorgeous. Love the red.
It seems tempramental though.
I ended up going with ddr4, spent some of the saved money on an i7 instead of i5(non-gaming reasons for i7). I just didn't want to be in a situation where I early adopted DDR5 and ended up having to replace the motherboard and RAM in a year or two anyways due to faster speeds/more stability with future kits. Since I have another DDR4 system, I can also just migrate the new RAM to that when I do eventually switch to DDR5 :)
I went 64gb(16x4) ddr4 on my i7-7700k build. 1of the slots on my asus z170a Premium failed... I now have a system that only sees 48gb of the original 64gb of ram. I found which slot failed and removed the 16gb DIMM. wasteful fail. I noticed that the system never went above 18-20 gb utilization. Hilarious waste.
I had a lot of issues getting 128 GB of DDR4 to boot at 4000. Had my suspicions that DDR5 would be even more difficult to deal with. I strongly believe something about CPU connectivity (like on substrate memory) or memory controller or topology (like slots per channel) is going to have to change soon to keep up these increases in density and speed. I don't know for sure if these stability issues are more so limits of memory topology, limits of the memory controller, or some combination of the two, but this is not going to be a software fix.
I think manufacturers wanted to immediately say all the big advertising points were better than the previous gen so they could comfortably charge more and they did, but at what cost?
Stability and value are important to the consumer too, and those are the things that keep customers coming back.
Well yea its already a market where things are in limited supply on all fronts and everything new seems to be a rarity so it wouldn't make much sense for companies to debut something new and high-end with reasonable levels of stock and supply and to not capatolize on the exclusivity of it to raise the prices. With the whole precedent of a scalping market for gpus and seemingly anything else on the high end of computer parts why would a ,manufacturer want to proved a reasonable stock of products at and affordable SKU when they can make more of the premium model. Sure there may be supply shortages but i wouldn't be surprised if some would try and keep it at low or limited stock. Its like the perfect business model for the company people are clamoring for it and will pay nearly anything and its guaranteed to be sold almost instantly. Not saying they are manipulating the market per say but i mean its always worked for diamonds and oil!
This board looks like it is a Daisy chain topography. Mobo manufacturers currently seem to be favouring this over T Topography, maybe becuase daisy chain allows a (potentially) higher stated ram speed support. This video isn't reporting anything different from what we saw with DDR4 (yours being a perfect example), but Jay seems to be making a drama about it rather than saying look out for this guys, it is similar to what happened in DDR4 with daisy chain boards.
@malphadour T-topology is more difficult and hence more expensive to implement, which is why manufactures favor daisy chain. Daisy chain should be used for boards with two dimm slots and T-topology for those with four.
What's worse is that some of the early sample motherboards (you know the kind used for reviews and memory validation) are using T-topology and then mass produced as daisy chain variants.
While this might seem like something to be upset about we can still take a moment for perspective. Topology is still a small portion of the system, and would probably only effect one rung of capability. This seems like there are more factors. This also means that two dimms may be more stable than they are validating. So not all is bad, it just makes it difficult for those of us who need high capacity to get the same speeds we might expect.
on what setup? Im running my 128gb ddr5 at 4800hz on a z690 maximus hero and i9 12900k , xmp off. All within the manufacturers specifications and runs perfectly. And just came from 64gb 4 x 16gb of ddr5 5600mhz with xmp on , that was unstable as hell, even going for 5200. Could go a bit higher with 13th gen. Manufacturers are pretty transparent. You just need to check all of the components limitations and stick to it. Theres compatibility lists available out there too. And XMP is never guaranteed to work out of the box if i may say, especially if youre trying to push beyond the specifications of your components.
@jeffrockr I determined this was likely a motherboard limitation. The board I have was revised specifically for memory support. Albeit all those components are a part of the chain contributing to the end result.
Those kits can absolutely hit the speeds advertized on the right board. I was really upset to have this issue for the price I paid. Ultimately, it's not too big of a deal being 200 mhz off with a manual overclock, at least not enough to undo my water cooling loop.
Recently upgraded to 3600mhz @ 14-14-14-34 on 11th Gen and it's been an amazing experience! Over 99th percentile on ram performance across the board!
Nice. I had a 9th gen personal PC that I recently upgraded to 12th gen. Best jump I've made to date. (Lack of hyper-threading on 9th gen was a chore for me.) I keep an 11th gen test bench for server testing. (Non-overclockable CPU) Can't really do anything about the ram, but I have to say, I was pleasantly surprised by 11th gen performance, though to be honest, I skipped 10th gen altogether.
I hope that one day, when I grow up, I can be like you and do some playing around with my 11th gen setup, see if I can join you in the ranks.
Same here. I went with the G. Skill Trident Z rgb 4x16gb. Which one did you choose?
@@jakesnow96 Ripjaws V
DDR4-3600 CL14-14-14-34 1.45V
32GB (2x16GB) to be concise! A little pricey, but I wanted to maximize my performance. It raised my GPU's performance by a good amount too! I don't think people realize how impactful good RAM is.
There is a golden rule, a golden rule that always applies and should never be ignored.
When new crap gets released you don´t instantly jump on it but give it 6-12 months till manufacturers fixed the inevitably issues that come with new crap naturally.
Lean bag and let the impatient and e-peen benchmark junkies do the "beta" testing for you for free and go with it once the stuff has evolved into a proper state.
Funnily enough the same nowadays applies to games, it gets released you put it in your wishlist and wait 6-12 month till the bugs are fixed and all the purposely cut out content is also available via dlcs and then swoop in and buy the whole package on discount during xmas sales for example.
Patience can be an amazing skill.
This doesn't matter. It's in the mobo manual that what he's doing will not work.
@@mrjoshd It does matter. Give all that stuff 6-12 more months and it is finally matured to what i consider a proper state.
Currently you can just about make it work and even then may run into issues regarding reliability and/or no realistic gain over previous matured generations.
And this is nothing new, it has been like that for quite a while now.
Same as i wouldn´t buy into intels new e/p core stuff until next year. Cause i want to see how it even works out and not play beta tester for them, as i obviously am not going to get paid for it.
Thanks Jay for this level of detail on a PC Boot-up! I've built my last 4 systems over the last 15 years but never knew about the Boot-up learning taking place with the added time delay on the motherboard, LOL! I've replaced ram, activated XMP and selected the higher speed then tried a re-start. If it did not boot up at a reasonable rate, I would just reset it right away assuming a fail. Then go directly into the Bios and keep selecting a lower and lower ram speed until I got a normal speed boot-up, ha, ha, ha. I wonder how many of my systems could of ran at higher levels, LOL and ouch! The one thing that has always frustrated me by professionals in the trade, how often they will omit the little details, using acronyms in their statements that is complete gibberish to the average computer enthusiast and skipping little steps that they think is common knowledge when it is not. (In the 90's and early 2000's I used to have to train regular plant electricians/technicians how to do basic work and troubleshooting on electronic equipment used in automation and robotics! Which back then was totally different from regular PC computing at that time.) A perfect example I experienced was in a "how to: video on replacing ram, they mention, "if it doesn't post then the RAM speed is not compatible for your motherboard". However never mentioning that the time to post might take awhile for the system to adapt to the new selected speed. That is exactly what happened to me! Thanks again sir!
Every time a new RAM platform came out, the memory controllers could very rarely handle the overclocks. Been that way since DDR2. Not surprised that is still the case with DDR5.
I'd like to personally apologize on behalf of the PC community for the "scam-spam" reply you got. Lol. Hate em!
I was going to say when DDR4 came out 3000-3200Mhz was really the fastest you could reliably go without spending a ton of money or tinkering a lot. Meanwhile DDR3 was already near that speed.
I still use 32GB of DDR3 1600mhz RAM in my PC lol.
"We should do a video or something about memory training"
Yes please!
Yes, video about memory training will be useful to get even deeper understanding of computers. Thank you
I had issues with DDR5 (6000), with a i9-12900k, and z690 Aorus MOBO. From the start nothing but errors and BSOD’s trying to even install windows. After researching enough i have seen common issues with DDR5. So i returned parts, picked up an i7-12700k, DDR4, and a z690 MSI MOBO. Smooth sailing from the start. No errors, i will definitely be weary of DDR5 for a while.
That's why I went with basic 4800mhz ddr5 ram (value without heatsink), i can still upgrade my ram later and in that time it should be fixed.
Also, jep, these long boot times on alder lake are something really special, had build my pc and it trained for 3min, that's something you could get nervous about with all new parts on a new platform.
@@2leggedpirate265 He's talking about Memory training...
I'm building my PC for more than 2 decades. When you have all the parts still in original packages and you put it all together.. and then the first time you press "power on". After all that time and different PCs, it's still a special feeling. Some systems need 10 sec until you see a BIOS, but others... Ohh boy I get nervous after 2 minutes that feel like eternity.
That is also what I did. i7 12700k, Corsair Vengeance DDR5 4800 MHz, 2 sticks. No issues. Plug and play, really. Easily overclocked to 5200 MHz without an issue and didn't have to mess w/ voltages. Got an extended warranty w/ MicroCenter so I can bring the RAM back at any point in the next 3 years for a full in-store credit when DDR5 is much cheaper and much faster to essentially get a free upgrade. That's at least what the sales rep said to me in confidence. Whether he did me a solid or I'm naive remains to be seen.
@@samsizer2919 If that's something they actually do, that's honestly incredible. I wish I had a microcenter near me.
@@samsizer2919 yea but that warranty is only if the ram breaks in 3 years which is highly unlikely...warranty is not a free upgrade for no reason
Motherboard vendors regularly have compatibility lists for ram that will show you 4 sticks of ram that may have an xmp of say 4000 ( ddr4 ) may only be qualified for something lower like 3600. While running only two sticks will be verified for the advertised xmp. Not really all that new . Always recommend people check there motherboards verified compatibility lists and pay attention to not only verified ram, but speeds at which they have been certified for . Found it very helpful, especially for Ryzen . Intel historically has had better ram compatibility . That said 12th gen is on the bleeding edge of ram (ddr5) so its really no surprise there are these issues . I imagine it will improve as bios updates come out . However , that can only fix so much and a lot of it will also be up to the memory controller on the chip itself . Just temper your expectations for now until the platform matures .
For sure, though I am personally surprised that FW setups don't act similar to say how display cables work. They start at the highest specs speed/version everything says it supports and then goes down if found unstable.
I get firmware isn't so simple to do that because it may not be able to read what exactly is the issue. But you would think at this point some work could be done
Hey Jay you teached us how to prevent GPU from sagging, but what we see here 05:39? :)
I guess I'm surprised to hear that matching two kits of 2 sticks used to be reliable. I though I remembered in the Core2 days being told that my 1066 RAM might not reach advertised speeds if I bought two identical kits (and indeed, I think I saw a system/RAM combo around that time where even a matched set didn't work). Of course, that was before XMP, but I've always had it in my head that if you ever do two sticks per channel, you run the risk you'll have to relax the speed. So I haven't even tried this in something like 10 years now.
Bootlooping explained: If the motherboard notices a change in memory configuration, it'll typically go into memory training mode to try and optimize IMC/RAM settings. If it fails, it'll change things like secondary/tertiary timings, reboot, and try again. This typically happens 3-10 times depending on the config. If it can't figure it out after the max number of attempts, it'll revert to safe JEDEC defaults (which are typically abysmally slow compared to what the IMC/RAM are rated for).
I.e. "bootlooping" isn't necessarily bad (and might actually result in a good config eventually), but may indicate an issue with memory config depending on when/how it occurs.
(Also, once you start reading the hardcore technical details about this process, you realize that mobos do some serious dark magicks to get the IMC and RAM to talk at all.)
my motherboards always seem to do the "not gonna do anything for you, reset everything yourself" approach
@@Blox117 It heavily depends on the specific OEM implementation, there's no strict standard covering this failsafe behavior. YMMV
Wow this was incredibly informative and I don't know why it wasn't mentioned in the video, thank you!
The importance of check what the motherboard manufacturers have tested working and QVL'd, seems even more important with DDR5
For what is worth also RAM manufacturers have a qvl for their kits
Yes but now.....and the entire purpose of this video...... is showing that QVL memory sticks may still not work flawlessly for you. Results may differ depending onyour specific system and your specific silicon lotto with your specific 12th gen chip
@@crisnmaryfam7344 This what I want to know, he did not mention QVL in this video.
QVL doesn’t help with the 12th gen Ddr5 issue. It’s a separate issue. The ram will boot just fine but only in a 2 stick configuration is the problem.
@@m40black70 The QVL list have single,dual,quad tabels. This the whole idea for the compatibility check list.
If it's on the list, it has been tested and 100% should work.
When they are putting the sticks on the list and it does not work, that is false advertising on their part.
Real time frustration is so underrated...
Love your channel keep up the good work you give me so much information and solve a lot of problems thank you for all of your advice
Having flashbacks to early Ryzen 1600 days here... Also note that many manufacturers will validate RAM for a given setup, from single stick single rank to 4 sticks dual rank. Long story short, more ranks means less clock.
Haha I posted this above: I was lucky I got my R7 1700X to 2666 on 4 sticks cuz my 1600 wouldn't do more than 2133....ah those were the days. My 3900X is doing 2800MHz with 4x8GB sticks on an ASUS X570 I bought because uh well a B350M for a 3900X even stock was making me very nervous!
I was too happy to have a new PC back in 2017 though. All I had was my semi-functioning retina MacBook Pro
Hey Jay, perfect video. People need to learn to wait a moment and few boot’s for the computer completely learn it self.
When I upgraded to 16 GB of DDR3, I bought 2400 rated memory, but could only get it to boot at 2132. It was stable then (6h p95 test), but recently I was getting more and more ingame crashes and p95 fails in a few minutes. I tracked the issue to the ram and had to turn it down to JEDEC standard 1600. So overtime even a stable XMP profile can go bad.
I don't know if its the ram or my old i5-3570k mem controller that's actually at fault.
PS, the RAM is connected to the CPU, you might want to take the CPU out and clean it's contacts if it's Intel.
Most likely intel imc degrading causing crashing to happen if you don't let the bios in auto voltage but control the voltage manually
@@wayland7150 how would cleaning help? It’s all gold plated so there’s no corrosion.
It's probably not the ram. It's the memory controller on the cpu. RAM is pretty resistant to degradation as the traces are quite a bit thicker.
I'd go with the memory controller being the issue too. CPUs unfortunately degrade over time, and that is a decade old.
Great video. BTW, is it just the camera angle or is there a large amount of sag on that card? Suffering a little sag on my 3070 just now and I've noticed it more and more prevalent lately...
Is it possible that with just purely bios updates these issues could be addressed with 12th gen?
Jay, in the future, make sure the different RAM kits are next to their own kind.
The channels are physically connected to the DIMMS (1,1,2,2) but you put a black and a white in each (W,B,W,B), instead of putting both white into the first channel and both black into the second channel. (W,W,B,B) or vice-versa (B,B,W,W).
This prevents the memory controller from being able to tune the settings of each channel to the specifics on that kit of two sticks.
The sticks inside each kit may be paired in some way, to ensure they work well together vs others in the same production run. So make sure the kit is on its own channel, so it can be configured optimally separate from the others.
Reminds me of Ryzen 1st gen, memory support was a mess until 2nd AGESA update came out, which was quite a while after release.
Another reminder why it's not good to be a beta tester for manufacturers.
Thanks for the vid, but you could leave a popup somewhere when you talk about "our 12th gen gig" or anything like that, because i dont know the details and im intrested.
You guys have some great insight, i miss subtitles and some details that help :)
Thanks!
Thank you for making this, I'm having a similar issue with just 2 sticks of Corsair DDR5 5200 in my z690 Hero Mboard.. I can get my system to boot up when I only use the B slots, but when the memory is in any of the A slots I get BSOD and intermittent crashes. Sometimes even Qled codes of 55. I reached out to Asus for help and they said because the memory is not on the QVL they can't help me!..
Don't forget that the number of ranks per stick also comes into play (unless that doesn't apply to DDR5, but I know it applies to DDR4)!
@@hotaru25189 I was talking about how dual rank sticks are typically harder to drive at high frequencies, but I get your point.
Does not matter with 16GB and above sticks, only 8GB and smaller benefit from dual rank modules.
Glad to see tech legends like Jay freaking out about computers turning themselves on. Thought I was the one responsible for it mine does that...Great video too by the way
Once I was playing on my playstation 2 or 3 with a friend of mine, and all of a sudden my pc booted, we werent even close to it. My friend looked at me and we both laughed, because what else can you do?
This an issue I had with my ddr4 too that I paid 1200 bux for, never know this and had previously build pcs, basically everything above base is a risk, explains why they only sell it in 2 kits. I’d love to see what posts with xmp with current cpus. I saw some people talking about CL and how that can effect performance and not even need that high of frequency, maybe something to look into. anyways more people need to be aware of this issue, before buying ram! Good video
A DDR4 quad kit also didn't work for a friend on alder lake but sometimes boots worked after waiting like half an hour or so somehow... (3600MHz CL16 TridentZ) Worked perfectly fine without XMP. Now he switchted to a dual Kit and has no issues.
On my 8600k, I had to drop 3200mhz ram to 3000mhz, it did boot but wasnt stable on memory testing with 4 dimms.
On my 2600x, I had to drop ram all the way down to 2667mhz on 4 dimms for it to be stable.
The 4 dimm problem doesnt have that much coverage sadly.
Intel's specs for its 12th Gen memory controller is 4800MT/s. Stick with official supported specs and your motherboards QVL and a reputable manufacturer. Memory reliability is more important than an arbitrary number that won't affect your system performance in any noticeable way.
This is why I find overclocking in recent years to be somewhat pointless.
Great video. Just to make sure I got this right, you should be OK with 2 pieces of RAM (for example 2x16 at 6000) but not with 4?
I'm glad you posted this video. I just ordered the components for building my computer. I also ordered 4 sticks of ram and have 12th gen intel coming. I will definitely send two of those sticks back.
Clearly, this is a case were one component is too advanced for the rest of the system...it doesn't mean the system per se is bad or faulty. It is just one component advanced too quickly (which will push the rest to advance). This is common when you test compatibility between latest components. So:
Lesson 1: just stick to 5200Mhz max for now until motherboards / bios catch up.
Lesson 2: avoid MSI motherboards....
Similar issues with ASUS z690-E (and only 2 16GB sticks)
Either way I always stuck with Asus motherboards as they’re the best in terms of bios, compatibility and company support imo.
@@beecee793 what problem did you have with that board? I’m planning to buy if
@@cyrusfifa498 I always stick with ASUS too, they seemed solid. Right now having ongoing issues with windows freezing with a brand new z690-e.
@@beecee793 do you have windows 11? Rn I’m on 2700x and planing to upgrade to 12th gen b660i Rog itx and windows 11 is causing me so much trouble
Or just go for DDR4 at around 4000 with low timings? I mean, future proofing with RAM, pretty rare, mostly its just if you keep a system long enough and have low enough RAM capacity to increase, that's more likely than carrying over sticks from system A to B (unless you upgrade every 2 years or something roughly as silly).
Sadly I'm having this same problem with DDR4 on my 12900k. It just won't POST with any XMP profile. Stuck at 2133 forever despite the memory being rated at 3600.
@@rakrakrakrak did you try manually upping the voltage xmp should do it automatically but you can set it higher yourself as well and cam help idk if its the same on 12gen or z690 but also the SA/IO voltage can help if you set them a little bit above stock since its going to the mem controler
I'm going from a 3rd gen i7-3770K to a 12th gen i5-12600K, so just a slight jump up. I'm glad I went with a DDR4 board and RAM for now. 32gb at the boards native 3200.
hey what ram do you use for your 12600k ? MHZ, CL ?
I just purchased an Origin PC with an i7-12700k and I wanted to try and futureproof myself as best I can. So I ordered the DDR5 setup with the MSI force motherboard. Origin locked the order at 2 sticks 32GB. And now I understand why. Thanks, Jay. I'll have to keep my eyes on this situation if I ever decide I want to upgrade this in the future. I'm running at 4800 and I think I'll just keep xmp off for the time being. I'm happy with my performance for now...
ended up doing the same andd topped my ram without ramping up speed and its way more stable. Wished I could exploit the 6400 speed but i guess its going to have to wait for next gens