weirdly, I think old karma fits in better with the new cast of characters than the current karma. It would've been interesting to see players get really good at using her w
Old Karma main here (oh boy do I miss her old kit.. they should bring her back as her evil twin sister)^^ Old Mantra W was pure gold: In lane phase, as soon as your ADC has a life lead (hint: Mantra Q for heal), you could go all in and get the kill. In teamfights it was great to catch up any enemies that try to retreat. It was also a great engage tool for teamfights. Really, as soon as your teammates got how to get the movement speed bonus (by running through the teather) it was a great tool imho. And I really miss her AoE Mantra Q heals in teamfights. Imho old karma suffered from the shortsighted community back then that disliked support that aren't super long range and the fact that she was build differently (more tanky). Oh and she could kill minions (unintentionally when using mantra Q/E) and champions with her sometimes unexpected high dmg (passive), which was seen as bad support CS/KS back then. Nowadays with the diversity on the support spot (think of kill lane supports), imho her old kit would be much better accepted by the community. I really want her old kit back....
Original karma will always be my favorite champ in the game , the size of the shields and the aoe burst damage you could pump out late game was amazing, must admit though I did enjoy abusing the reworked one in top but I always went full ap and not tank, another great video going down memory lane.
fun fact: One of the reasons why you didn't see Old Karma get played was because during the entire life of her old kit she only had a grand total of TWO instances of being a free week and never once appeared on the patch notes for a balance change, only minor bug fixes. Essentially Riot kinda shuffled her into a drawer and pretended she didn't exist until her rework came
I loved her old W. Playing with my jungler to make the tether pass through as much ennemies as possible always felt like the snowspeeder vs AT-AT entanglement. Loved to play this game in the game.
her hitbox for her q is SO small. They either need to make her radius for her Q longer, or make the Q go through minions (and leave RQ for farming), regardless, she needs a rework again.
Yes, that was the only ability that needed some adjustment, not even a total rework on the ability, just some adjustments or buffs or new effects...but noo, full rework on the champ 😒😔
@@Daniel-Unmeiten before Morello got control of the company, Guinsoo was working on a rework that was doing pretty much that. Basically it was a system of 2 mantras. You double clicked mantra if it was at 2 stacks to get a Q3,W3,E3 effect. I don't remember it entirely but I believe it was like this Q3- pushback. W3- Heal target ally over duration, damage enemy over duration E3- stun/snare targets hit by it. he had a discussion about it asking karma players for things he was testing back in the day, but ya know ,this is kinda at the same time Morello conned the original staff out of their own game by making them put their games on HIS servers and weeding them out after with threats of them not being able to host their own games anymore and gave it to Scarizard.
Reworked Karma is the champion that got me into the game back in Season 3, and I've been playing LoL ever since (though regrettably, I haven't been a Karma main for quite some time now).
I played old karma mid quite a bit. It was a lot of fun, and often underestimated. After she got reworked, I played her less. The Q was made much less interesting in trade for the W being better. I took a long break from league and am sad to hear she's been relegated to supporting for the most part. I'm not sure why Riot doesn't like versatility in their champs.
how was the W better? it left her way open to being killed. Old W was still really good if you learned to tether zap minions/wards or had fast allies (Jax/Shyvana/etc) to attach it to and run it through them. The old Tether actually did more damage than shield bomb, making it one of the single strongest AoE moves in the game per cast at the time.
@dragames -A root is always more valuable than a very weak slow. -Actually getting the damage proc with the old W was very inconsistent. -The new W also combos well with her empowered Q, making the kit feel like it belongs together more than old Karma.
@@Shorn_ a root that takes 2 seconds being near melee range.. vs an immediate and long duration slow that you can stay a safe distance from? No, the slow is more valuable because it has more usability and far less risk. The damage wasn't a proc, it was so long as they ran through it, they were damaged. a proc assumes it was a chance, it wasn't a chance. It's not like crit there wasn't an ability in LoL that says something like '50% to stun'. Riot didn't do that. Trying to rationalize putting Karma in severe danger to get her Q to hit the target is the sheer definition in this case of 'high risk, extremely low reward'.
@@dragames @dragames I'm not sure if you're joking or what... trying to act like old Karma W was the epitome of game balance. Anyone that played her would tell you that the 10% slow at lvl 1 (because you're not maxing it first or second) wasn't keeping you safe from, or catching, anyone with a dash or movement speed boost. Not to mention teammates usually had no idea that they had to walk past the enemy to add value to the ability. And the W damage was a proc. It would continuously apply the slow or speed, but the damage would only proc once.
@@Shorn_ 10% speed up and 10% speed down does actually effect chase quite a bit, a lot better than forcing yourself to stay close enough for 2 seconds for a snare to go off. That's the part that should be considered a joke, especially since she has a SPEED BOOST meaning her own kit works against her, unless she's engaging and trying to root to keep in melee. And yes I played and mained old karma and got really high doing Jungle karma and mid/top lane was doing decent and I'd max out W first because it was better damage, not speed boost. And using 'dash/speed boost' as a reason to sell new karma is laughable as they'd do the same right out of that short ass range of the tether. If karma's new tether did osmething else, like slow them before snaring, or had longer range, it'd be a different story. Maybe even shorter range to apply but much longer range to break so she can snare, shield boost and run out. Yeah, the damage only happened once, but it was 310 + .7ap which made it better damage than Soul shield explosion until the 300 AP mark and if you're doing a lot of the tankier karma builds, outside the fact it was more mana friendly (which seems to be a thing people forget, how long can you stay and keep doing damage before needing mana) The way I had done her in jungle was to max W and E first, and keep Q at one because the biggest part of the heal was the Max Health which didn't get stronger with rank. It costed more mana and significantly more mana for the damage it did and lacked range (wider arc, sure) which didn't allow you to throw wards into enemy territory and tether zap your wards to gank or jungle minion counter jungling.
When I found out about old karma back when I played in season 2/3 I was envious not being able to try it she seemed fun but granted I'm a player who liked old yorick, old sion and old urgot
New Karma is fine, but old Karma was preference. Building tanky and keeping your team topped off was amazing. Never got the hang of her tether, but it made her no less fun.
I was one of the OG karma players. People hated when I picked her until I started carrying with the E/Q mantra combos to shield and heal instantly, turning a losing fight into a winning fight. I also was one of the Morgana players since LOL launched in 2009, so the squishy short range mage was something I was used to already.
I like new Karma as is, but I do feel like they could add a movement speed boost effect to her W - like she steals 20% of the enemy's movement speed and gives it to herself. Also they could add an effect to her R+W where she could choose to W an ally and give them both the healing and movement speed! I'd love that so much!
I wanna suggest you do Irelia for the next one. I feel she is like Akali in the sense that both of them had stacked kits that were busted and slowly had everything removed. From things like disarm on vanguards edge, shield damage on her passive, uninterrupted W for both damage types. It would also be solid to see how she’s was strong on release and gradually got nerfed to the ground
I know this is a very old video but after just finding it, I feel so validated, I recently got back into league and have been thinking that maybe I've been too hard on Karma, lord knows my friends have been telling me to move on. But watching this and seeing the comments agree with me, I miss the old Karma, she was fun and unique, her entire thing was duality and they stripped that away, especially now that Matra E doesn't do damage anymore. I miss that Yin and Yang playstyle a lot. I recently saw a video about how old Aatrox is the only removed champion, and while, I guess Karma is still here, she kept 3 of her abilities, her bones are still there. But the soul is gone.
6:32 Some karma players (mainly midlaners) avoided leveling up W. Karma W had the same issue as Sona E or Soraka Q, people prefered to level the other abilities.
Not I. Because I preferred the Tether zap for attack. Throw wards or use minions, tether zap them. Tether was lower CD, lower mana and actually better damage than shield bomb and heavenly wave. Heavenly wave's heal component based on max health was the same at rank 1 so I leveled Q last. (while the base non % heal did get stronger, it wasn't by much and its damage was far inferior to both soul shield and spirit bond while also being more mana costly for it)
as a karma main but o new player i can say that the e overload would be a nice trait to keep considering the state of the game a shield that goes boom and deals damage would be that bad or broken either
I quit playing when they first reworked Karma. She was so unique to the point I didn't enjoy playing any other characters and that first rework lost all the identity I liked in the same way you say removing the shield burst did for you. Watching this video rekindled the bitterness a bit, a decade later.
I miss those jokes: "Whose KArmA?" "Whats a Karma?" I miss the second half of her mantra chants upon using one of her Empowered spells. I miss her fighting in a dress that touched the ground. I miss her hand fans. She was what got me to stick around in league of legends, and what got me to actually learn a champion. People knew me in my friend group as "that guy who plays karma." She is still my top played/favorite champion and I stick around for her, but I'd gladly give up all my other skins and champions just to play her original kit and model one more time.
Till today I still miss the old Karma, especially the empowered E and her passive. Her old skill set emphasized her identity as a politician so we'll, especially how she could be a strong fighter when she's in disadvantages and how powerful she could be when she's with her allies. I always think that there are a lot of unique female fighters in the game, but to have someone like the old Karma was definitely a highlight of the diverse gameplay and cultures in the rift.
I use to main Karma before her rework. I absolutely loved her and even played her as AD sometimes 😂. I’ve never liked her new kit personally but I understand the change.
I don't actually think you do... as most people don't. The actual change happened because of the morello take over... and he didn't like Coronoch which created a few characters so this was seemingly the perfect opportunity to send them a dirty finger while claiming it was him. plus every excuse they had was bs. "nobody knew what she did" because you never put her F2p. "She required teammates knowing what she did" again, not a problem if they know what she did and right after the rework they started with champs like Yuumi that are nearly 100% reliant on teammates to use their abilities so, the lie detector determined THAT was a lie. the only thing a mystery is why did old karma never become f2p and why was she the only champion to never have a champion spotlight.
it would have been awesome if karmas rework centered around bonding with a champion and trying to get the most out of it. whether it meant her new abilities centered around the target or the chain itself or if the abilities somehow lengthened the duration of the chain and empowered it. karmas new kit is just so safe and bottom of the barrel in terms of creativity lol.
I'm surprised that you didn't talk about how they failed at keeping her identity so bad that they decided to make the traditional skin so that it didn't feel so bad for Karma players. And this made them reevaluate how they did future reworks.
So true, old karma was UNIQUE not even 1 champ is like old karma was even these days...i hope they someday release a "lol classics" like urf, aram, etc with all those old champs...or at least make another champ with a similar kit as the old karma 😭😔
Riot did what I wanted and didn't want at the same time. I just wanted the Q to slow and for the w to root instead of slow. But they decided to change her completely.
Old karma was waaaaaaaaay more unique, like, the only one with that playstyle: having critical health, bait people and then BOOM YOU ARE DEATH IN A SEC AND I'M BACK WITH MORE THAN HALF HEALTH... the ACTUAL karma, after all the nerfs, can't do nearly as much damage as the old one, she lost more than half of her identity...BUT...i have to admit that she is more versatile now, and a waay better support too...i guess we the old karma mains are the only ones who can really love her more than the new one, and unfortunately, we were so few people that main her back in the day...i still love the new karma, at least she kind of has the "bait people into her low health" with the new mantra w...but i miss sooooo much my old karma, she was the queen of outplays 😭...hope a "LoL classics" can be a thing someday, like urf, aram etc, with all those old champions 😢
Ains Karma... This champion... Aside of my skill issue of not being able to do anything with her and then facing her and being hard stomped, I have never been "called" out by that champ. Opinions about the E damage burst: She used to have that? The more you know Opinions about rework: It really tells you more about Riot's way of making champs. Her abilities are long because of the Mantra effect. Outside of that, her abilities are really simple. Now we look at more modern champions and it feels a bit lacking: No clear powerspike, no double passive, no % damage, no big flashy moves... I like Karma as a concept: A generalist champ that could be used anywhere if built (and played) right. However, generalists' era is over. Now is all about specialization.
Nice video...but i would love to see wild rift karma in lol pc. She lost heal on her w and aoe mantra e.....but she has a real ult in the form of mini ori ult and her old ult become her p and her w can root up to 2 champs and the mantra w add extra teahter between the 2 champs so even if they are out of the range of her w if they dont move away from each other they will get rooted and for longer time. Overall a more fun karma
They should do something completely new and instead of releasing a new champion, release a 2nd form of Karma. Then before the game starts you can select Karma and choose which one you want to play. That way they wouldn't have to remove either Karma, so both type of Karma players would be pleased, and you wouldn't have the issue of 2 characters with almost the same kit running around. I know it will never happen, but old Karma is so much more fun to me than the new one. :c
I may be a bit late but imo karma over the years has kind of suffered the oh so dreadful tendency from riot to forcing champion into a designated role rather then letting them be used in more niche situations, even if the people playing those niches are few and far between, an example would be the fact that even tho playing pyke in a solo lane is actively playing with a crippled leg until lvl 6 they just went ahead and kept nerfing it when the initial nerfs were enough to make him a very weak choice anywhere but support, tho in karma's case i view her rework more of like what happened to volibear since he is a champion i used to play a lot pre rework and still like past rework, both cases had their kit changed despite being extremely faithful to their previous incarnation but changed enough where the ability to play them in in more then an extremely straight forward manner became all but impossible, making both of them honestly a tad big boring compared to how they used to be or downright unfair to play against at some point in their post rework lifespan
well now they try their hardest to keep their identity of the character during the rework. they have been poiting this out very clear. but for karma they did all they could do destroy every single detail of her identity. her lore, her apperance, her weapon fans, her kit. everything. they even remvoed the aoe shield just because that. duality was her thing wether being supportive or offensive, that was even in her reworked lore. she was the person to fight with ionian magic. they hated her duality so much that they even changed her lore again after her rework :D?!
You know what they say about first times: *They usually suck.* In Karma's case i feel they focused on the wrong issues, just like with Kayle. Karma's issue was her W and passive being useless promoting uninteractive gameplay, while her R was too easy to get and didn't promoted actual decision making (You use empowered Q and E always). The solution was surprisingly simple in that sense: Make her W an hability, her old passive the current one and make her only have one R at the time. Karma's kit is less flexible than before, specially after S5, and is because they still didn't have standards of identity preservation. That being said the rework was surprisingly good, altough with that i mean i'm surprised it didn't end up in an Aatrox level of change; very meh as a rework, just like with Aurelion Sol's second rework (The first one is just disastrous) or Galio, but by no means the worst because Aatrox no longer exists.
Sorry i stop reading when you said "passive being useless"...are you serious??? THAT was the MAIN identity of old karma (along with nuke shield) all real old karma mains knows that
This isn't really a good comment because it is... hmm... uneducated I guess is the word. Her passive was broken, not useless. They even said that her passive was too good, even if nobody knew what it was. Her W was one of her better abilities, but it was HARDER to use right. The problem was nothing with old karma being useless, the problem was she was never F2P so a lot of people never even had a chance to see her or play her. Heck, she didn't even have a champion spotlight when she WAS released. (she was the only champ to not have either a f2p week or a spotlight) but to go over, her W being really good just hard to use... it had decent range. It also had one of the highest damage and scaling if you tether zapped with it. Tether zapping you had either an ally who was quick take it and run with you and jump onto the enemies with it (thus zapping them all). Zapped enemies ALSO get their movement speed reduced which was huge in a team fight with an initiator who knew what to do with it. Oh and your allies wh oran through the tether also got their speed increased so long as they were in the tether so either a .5 second boost or a 5 second boost (while difficult is possible just don't rely on it) Or you could use it to do insane things with or against fast characters like Shyvana. Shyvana Ally? Take it and she takes you with her to ransack into enemies. Shyvana enemy? Use it on her and ruin her chase. and of course, the tether zapping damage aspect worked if you threw it on wards, so you could throw a ward behind enemy 'standing zones' and constantly zap them and they wouldn't know where the ward was you're zapping them from. It was low CD, high damage, and only moderate on the mana cost. the rework actually wasn't good at all, her only good skill was her team shield speed buff was great for initiation and maybe that's all a team needs. But her Q and W are far worse post rework. And 'you only mantra'd q and e with old karma"! well, you only mantra e with new karma. Mantra Q is a waste when people walk out of it so easily and mantra W requires you to be in a dangerously close situation... and the fact she has a SPEED BOOST SHIELD means she's not likely to stand close enough for W to last long enough to heal a good amount or snare without her being killed.
I've admittedly been playing karma mid for a VERY long time. I gotta say, the fact they nerfed her AP ratios because of her toplane tank meta is lowkey insulting. She's not supposed to be a burst mage, she's a battle mage (mages that can stay in the fight for extended durations like karthus, Swian, Vladimir). Her passive lowers her CD. Her EW heals her based on on her missing HP and she has a slow + speed up to stay perfect kiting range. She's also mixed into an enchanter role but falls off there due to Athens now being Yuumi's new passive (imo it would've worked better as Karma's passive) To that point, she's mixed in a bad mix of the two right now really because she's the meme like top laner, mid laner with bad ratios, and a shield bot enchantress. It IS possible to mix her style into a low range high movement mage who also can support. But I doubt we'll see anything other than the wild rift gameplay being better than the normal rift one. Losing the shield bomb does really hurt too. It gave her options which could've been very needed in current days league. Losing the current AoE movement speed on her RE and giving mini shields with just like a 30% base ratio would've been a fine way to keep her duality of both being a constant damage dealer and a hero enchantress in tact. But now she's missing out on both due riot wishing to push her into either the top lane or support. (If you don't believe me about the battle mage part, I highly suggest you take ultimate hat on karma and remember that her Q gets to a 3 second CD with some cdr. Played right you can 1 v 1 any champion although it'll take a long time due to her refusal to die RW)
Even if she got 1x buffed with 10% increase dmg, its nothing due the massive nerfs they did on karma. I never play her again, which is sad. Also karma mid and top i did used, but again i can't play her anymore. Sad the champion is really fun and nice to play
I cant lie, I was fucking pissed when they reworked her. I used to play her so much, playing around things like tripple R stack, good positioning for Q heal and poking with E. But she sucked lmao
I always thought this rework was dogshit and basically completely removed every aspect of a cool champ from the game. I know her old kit was clunky and not the most refined, but they kept very little of it the same and made her gameplay feel VERY different. As someone who's been playing the game steady since old Karma was a thing, I played it a ton and I was severely disappointed when the rework came out because the kit wasn't remotely similar. Beyond that, her personality felt pretty different and I dislike the current voice which feels like it never has any emotion or depth to it. Oh, and current Karma is incredibly boring to look at compared to old Karma. You can't tell what she's supposed to be and she doesn't look interesting at all, she just looks like some generic videogame character, which is what she is currently. So to recap, they removed her kit, removed her personality, and removed her appearance, then replaced all of them with the most generic uninteresting shit they could. In no way would I call the Karma rework "good," if anything it was just the first example of Riot assassinating a champion and removing them from the game. It's like saying the Aatrox rework was good; it wasn't because it wasn't a rework, it just removed old Aatrox entirely in every way. Current Karma is just a generic, oversimplified shadow of what was once a real character. I think the thing I miss most about old Karma though, is that she actually took skill to play. Just understanding how her kit worked was difficult compared to most champions, and using it took constant good decision making. This is the primary reason few people played her: she was one of the most difficult champions in the game. Current Karma is absolutely brainless, anyone and everyone plays her and you can just FEEL how much the lack of skill is helping them win when you play against her. And she's not even fun to play as anymore because yeah she's overpowered as fuck if you know what you're doing, but it's not very fun or rewarding. It's just a braindead generic champ who's designed to win lane really easily, and nothing in her kit or design is really interesting at all anymore.
so just finished this video. and boy do I have a lot to say about this, since you glossed over a few things and seemingly fluffed up a lot of the immediate karma rework. Old karma #1. Nobody knew her because Riot NEVER gave her a f2p week. Never. She was the only champion they refused to put her on a roster and I have no idea why. Also, I really despise the rework and Scarizards take on how to work it. Riotguinso was working on it and his ideas were actually holding much better than this one. Instead of having a mantra mini ult, you'd have the option of double tapping a 2 stack of mantra if you've built it up into an additional effect. If I remember right it was something like Q3- pushback enemies W3- Channel heal into ally, or channel damage into enemy during it (and I believe Karma was going to be healed with it regardless). E3 Stun/snares enemies hit by it. This made spirit bond actually worth mantraing while not taking away the use of the other 2 as well (original karma only doubling the speed boost/penalty was underwhelming compared to Q's heal or E's long range damage. Old Karma Q. I found this to be the upset of the popular Morgana lane that relied on her tainted soil for minion kills. Heal minions just enough so that tainted soil can't kill it. Creep denial is huge. Not to mention that heal working on minions was so great for lane pushing when you needed it by keeping all your minions higher for longer. Old karma W. You went really quickly over this for the most important skill she had. You completely missed out on the fact that it did MORE damage than soul shield without even needing to mantra it, so doing something like the 'ward zap' using it was a valid thing to do in lane, or as a jungler in s3, made her broken by zapping wards in enemy jungle to creep steal and gank enemy junglers. It may not have been as brain dead easy to learn as the shield bomb was but that's the whole point in a high risk high reward move. Old karma E. Shield bombing minions was such a massive upset in lane against a lot of people. Old karma Jungling: you barely went into it, but the machete in S3 made her a sleeper OP jungler and is the only reason I went so high into it. I'm not a great player, but my jungle karma made me look like I was. (and all the 'report troll jungle karma' comments at the start of matches was chefs kiss there) Her jungle kill camp was so ridiculously fast, spending only a few seconds at each camp lead to massive downtime and ability to counter jungle real quick. Toss in some wards, steal their wraiths/wolves as they spawn, catch them trying to get the wolves but then boom, shield bomb and tether zap the ward to both steal and kill them or at least weaken them enough so they're forced to back and then go on your marry way stealing their jungle all over again. This never failed in any of the games I jungled karma. The ganking may not have been the greatest in lane, but she was tanky enough to go behind tower and tank it so your laners can go under it for a few seconds. If no kill is secured? They're going to be forced back anyways. So all you do is heal your laners up and go back, leaving them with the ability to stay in lane, farm, and/or push tower a lot harder. This isn't something any other jungler could do. Alistar could SORT of do it and while his ganking was better, his healing and jungle clear was by far much slower and he needed more gear than Karma to do it, whereas karma had the freedom to not need as much gear to do it to spend throwing 10 wards on the map for constant map awareness + tethering for self speed boost/ganking. New Karma... garbage. Did you see their original recommendation? Put stupid 'Ad runes' on her because she's gotta auto attack for her passive. the crap... Anyways. her passive is meh because her kit is meh. Q: it's not that damaging, it's not that accurate and she's a MAGE who can't penetrate minions...? That instantly knocks her down in usability where all you have to do is use the minions against her. Old karma used minions against her enemies, new karma is ruined by them. This was such a bad skill. Mantra Q is even worse because the delay field is so inaccurate most characters can easily walk out of it even when you DO manage to hit them with it. W: This is more garbage. "I can heal myself and if I don't die I'll snare you" except... that's the problem, it was so short on a fragile mage that almost every character would kill her as she tried to heal/snare. Especially in an era where bruiser/fighters dominated. Yay, a mage that now has to be in melee range that also can't penetrate minions 0/2 riot. E: This is the only move that was any decent on her kit. Shield bomb or not, it didn't need that damage removed either way. It was there for the speed buff and team shield in an initiate. But that's really all karma had was to assist was her E. Everything else she did was so lackluster. in a team fight, her Q's gonna hit the tank, not the ADC or enemy mage while they're attacking you and your ADC and other damage dealers. Don't you DARE use W in a team fight. This was the only thing she had going for her and it wasn't even that much of a thing. Old karma even if she wasn't better than new karma (if she wasn't. I'd argue she was way better), she had her place and niche whereas new karma is beaten out by other mages and supports at every point of what she's supposed to do. Trying to use the blue build to justify her when if you want to rely on that? Uh... You have Ezreal who did that, but better. You had Elise who could do that, but again better. And elise could more reliably push towers, escape into the jungle and self sustain. comparing great players who decided to nerf themselves by putting a good build on a bad character doesn't mean the character is good.
I really miss Karmas old Q with 60% ap scaling 🥲 wish that she atheist would have 50% so she old be viable a bit later on to the game aswell. Or take 10% from her empower Q to her normal Q. I don't know....
@@Tochinden I was specifically pointing out her W had a lot of damage on it. It took 300 ap for Soul shield bomb to equal what W's damage did with that 10% higher AP scaling, but spirit bond was also lower mana cost on a lower CD so if you got good with it, it was your best bet for higher dps. It just wasn't as stupid simple as 'cone wave damage' or 'shield bomb AoE damage'.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
weirdly, I think old karma fits in better with the new cast of characters than the current karma. It would've been interesting to see players get really good at using her w
hell no Rell also has a tether and it abosolutely useless
@@Megaman-2407 rell tether is the only interesting part of her gameplay the heck u smokin
@Nines :3 didnt say rell was interesting, said her e is the closest thing she got to a mechanic
@@Megaman-2407 You've never fought a decent rell then.
I started playing league on the same patch as karmas rework, im still salty shes the ONLY champion i never got to play
Karma mains, never forget what they took from us... mainly the followup lines when u used mantra powered abilities
As an old kayle lover I feel ur pain
Fun fact: You can actually hear Karma's old voicelines if you have her Traditional Skin.
Is that for sale?
@@nivrrtakr2891 sadly, no
I love my traditional Karma skin
Old Karma main here (oh boy do I miss her old kit.. they should bring her back as her evil twin sister)^^
Old Mantra W was pure gold:
In lane phase, as soon as your ADC has a life lead (hint: Mantra Q for heal), you could go all in and get the kill.
In teamfights it was great to catch up any enemies that try to retreat. It was also a great engage tool for teamfights.
Really, as soon as your teammates got how to get the movement speed bonus (by running through the teather) it was a great tool imho.
And I really miss her AoE Mantra Q heals in teamfights.
Imho old karma suffered from the shortsighted community back then that disliked support that aren't super long range and the fact that she was build differently (more tanky). Oh and she could kill minions (unintentionally when using mantra Q/E) and champions with her sometimes unexpected high dmg (passive), which was seen as bad support CS/KS back then.
Nowadays with the diversity on the support spot (think of kill lane supports), imho her old kit would be much better accepted by the community.
I really want her old kit back....
I like the old kayle more too
I really want them to bring this karma and old kayle and a.s as new champs with different stuff
Original karma will always be my favorite champ in the game , the size of the shields and the aoe burst damage you could pump out late game was amazing, must admit though I did enjoy abusing the reworked one in top but I always went full ap and not tank, another great video going down memory lane.
fun fact: One of the reasons why you didn't see Old Karma get played was because during the entire life of her old kit she only had a grand total of TWO instances of being a free week and never once appeared on the patch notes for a balance change, only minor bug fixes. Essentially Riot kinda shuffled her into a drawer and pretended she didn't exist until her rework came
why is htat?
I loved her old W. Playing with my jungler to make the tether pass through as much ennemies as possible always felt like the snowspeeder vs AT-AT entanglement. Loved to play this game in the game.
As a kid it took me legit 30minutes to figure that out 😂
Old Karma was my secret weapon! Miss her with my whole heart 😢
her hitbox for her q is SO small. They either need to make her radius for her Q longer, or make the Q go through minions (and leave RQ for farming), regardless, she needs a rework again.
I completly miss this old Karma! Her kit was so underated, just the w and mantra w needed a real rework. Still my main after all this years!
Yes, that was the only ability that needed some adjustment, not even a total rework on the ability, just some adjustments or buffs or new effects...but noo, full rework on the champ 😒😔
@@Daniel-Unmeiten before Morello got control of the company, Guinsoo was working on a rework that was doing pretty much that. Basically it was a system of 2 mantras. You double clicked mantra if it was at 2 stacks to get a Q3,W3,E3 effect. I don't remember it entirely but I believe it was like this
Q3- pushback.
W3- Heal target ally over duration, damage enemy over duration
E3- stun/snare targets hit by it.
he had a discussion about it asking karma players for things he was testing back in the day, but ya know ,this is kinda at the same time Morello conned the original staff out of their own game by making them put their games on HIS servers and weeding them out after with threats of them not being able to host their own games anymore and gave it to Scarizard.
They could let the theater's slow and speed effect
I played old Karma a lot, I miss it
Reworked Karma is the champion that got me into the game back in Season 3, and I've been playing LoL ever since (though regrettably, I haven't been a Karma main for quite some time now).
I played old karma mid quite a bit. It was a lot of fun, and often underestimated. After she got reworked, I played her less. The Q was made much less interesting in trade for the W being better. I took a long break from league and am sad to hear she's been relegated to supporting for the most part. I'm not sure why Riot doesn't like versatility in their champs.
how was the W better? it left her way open to being killed. Old W was still really good if you learned to tether zap minions/wards or had fast allies (Jax/Shyvana/etc) to attach it to and run it through them. The old Tether actually did more damage than shield bomb, making it one of the single strongest AoE moves in the game per cast at the time.
@dragames -A root is always more valuable than a very weak slow.
-Actually getting the damage proc with the old W was very inconsistent.
-The new W also combos well with her empowered Q, making the kit feel like it belongs together more than old Karma.
@@Shorn_ a root that takes 2 seconds being near melee range.. vs an immediate and long duration slow that you can stay a safe distance from? No, the slow is more valuable because it has more usability and far less risk.
The damage wasn't a proc, it was so long as they ran through it, they were damaged. a proc assumes it was a chance, it wasn't a chance. It's not like crit there wasn't an ability in LoL that says something like '50% to stun'. Riot didn't do that.
Trying to rationalize putting Karma in severe danger to get her Q to hit the target is the sheer definition in this case of 'high risk, extremely low reward'.
@@dragames @dragames I'm not sure if you're joking or what... trying to act like old Karma W was the epitome of game balance. Anyone that played her would tell you that the 10% slow at lvl 1 (because you're not maxing it first or second) wasn't keeping you safe from, or catching, anyone with a dash or movement speed boost. Not to mention teammates usually had no idea that they had to walk past the enemy to add value to the ability.
And the W damage was a proc. It would continuously apply the slow or speed, but the damage would only proc once.
@@Shorn_ 10% speed up and 10% speed down does actually effect chase quite a bit, a lot better than forcing yourself to stay close enough for 2 seconds for a snare to go off. That's the part that should be considered a joke, especially since she has a SPEED BOOST meaning her own kit works against her, unless she's engaging and trying to root to keep in melee.
And yes I played and mained old karma and got really high doing Jungle karma and mid/top lane was doing decent and I'd max out W first because it was better damage, not speed boost.
And using 'dash/speed boost' as a reason to sell new karma is laughable as they'd do the same right out of that short ass range of the tether. If karma's new tether did osmething else, like slow them before snaring, or had longer range, it'd be a different story. Maybe even shorter range to apply but much longer range to break so she can snare, shield boost and run out.
Yeah, the damage only happened once, but it was 310 + .7ap which made it better damage than Soul shield explosion until the 300 AP mark and if you're doing a lot of the tankier karma builds, outside the fact it was more mana friendly (which seems to be a thing people forget, how long can you stay and keep doing damage before needing mana)
The way I had done her in jungle was to max W and E first, and keep Q at one because the biggest part of the heal was the Max Health which didn't get stronger with rank. It costed more mana and significantly more mana for the damage it did and lacked range (wider arc, sure) which didn't allow you to throw wards into enemy territory and tether zap your wards to gank or jungle minion counter jungling.
When I found out about old karma back when I played in season 2/3 I was envious not being able to try it she seemed fun but granted I'm a player who liked old yorick, old sion and old urgot
I LOVED OLD SION!!!!!!!!!!
Ur Videos need much more views! Very informative and a good refresh of what good ol' League used to be.
New Karma is fine, but old Karma was preference. Building tanky and keeping your team topped off was amazing. Never got the hang of her tether, but it made her no less fun.
Not gonna lie, I didn't know karma had even gotten a rework.
I was one of the OG karma players. People hated when I picked her until I started carrying with the E/Q mantra combos to shield and heal instantly, turning a losing fight into a winning fight.
I also was one of the Morgana players since LOL launched in 2009, so the squishy short range mage was something I was used to already.
Launched in 2019? What are you? Tiktok generation?
I like new Karma as is, but I do feel like they could add a movement speed boost effect to her W - like she steals 20% of the enemy's movement speed and gives it to herself.
Also they could add an effect to her R+W where she could choose to W an ally and give them both the healing and movement speed! I'd love that so much!
One of the disgusting things with old karma dmg shields top was that you could place it on minions and do insane poke from huge distance.
and... and tether and... and wards... you could do huge damage with both from a 'hidden distance' too.
I remember going Karma top and having so much fun with these remote bombs lol. She was my main, it's so sad they took her
I wanna suggest you do Irelia for the next one. I feel she is like Akali in the sense that both of them had stacked kits that were busted and slowly had everything removed. From things like disarm on vanguards edge, shield damage on her passive, uninterrupted W for both damage types. It would also be solid to see how she’s was strong on release and gradually got nerfed to the ground
I know this is a very old video but after just finding it, I feel so validated, I recently got back into league and have been thinking that maybe I've been too hard on Karma, lord knows my friends have been telling me to move on. But watching this and seeing the comments agree with me, I miss the old Karma, she was fun and unique, her entire thing was duality and they stripped that away, especially now that Matra E doesn't do damage anymore. I miss that Yin and Yang playstyle a lot. I recently saw a video about how old Aatrox is the only removed champion, and while, I guess Karma is still here, she kept 3 of her abilities, her bones are still there. But the soul is gone.
6:32 Some karma players (mainly midlaners) avoided leveling up W. Karma W had the same issue as Sona E or Soraka Q, people prefered to level the other abilities.
Not I. Because I preferred the Tether zap for attack. Throw wards or use minions, tether zap them. Tether was lower CD, lower mana and actually better damage than shield bomb and heavenly wave. Heavenly wave's heal component based on max health was the same at rank 1 so I leveled Q last. (while the base non % heal did get stronger, it wasn't by much and its damage was far inferior to both soul shield and spirit bond while also being more mana costly for it)
as a karma main but o new player i can say that the e overload would be a nice trait to keep considering the state of the game a shield that goes boom and deals damage would be that bad or broken either
I mean, legit can't be broken when annie has the SAME thing as karma shield, (movement speed buff) AND does damage to anyone that damage the shield 😒
Having a dancing Melee Mage was a lot of fun but yea its too weird to be popular
I quit playing when they first reworked Karma. She was so unique to the point I didn't enjoy playing any other characters and that first rework lost all the identity I liked in the same way you say removing the shield burst did for you. Watching this video rekindled the bitterness a bit, a decade later.
I miss those jokes:
"Whose KArmA?"
"Whats a Karma?"
I miss the second half of her mantra chants upon using one of her Empowered spells.
I miss her fighting in a dress that touched the ground.
I miss her hand fans.
She was what got me to stick around in league of legends, and what got me to actually learn a champion. People knew me in my friend group as "that guy who plays karma."
She is still my top played/favorite champion and I stick around for her, but I'd gladly give up all my other skins and champions just to play her original kit and model one more time.
I think the old Spirit Bond was a more interesting ability and I wish they kept the aspect of it somehow affecting people in between the tether
Till today I still miss the old Karma, especially the empowered E and her passive. Her old skill set emphasized her identity as a politician so we'll, especially how she could be a strong fighter when she's in disadvantages and how powerful she could be when she's with her allies. I always think that there are a lot of unique female fighters in the game, but to have someone like the old Karma was definitely a highlight of the diverse gameplay and cultures in the rift.
I use to main Karma before her rework. I absolutely loved her and even played her as AD sometimes 😂. I’ve never liked her new kit personally but I understand the change.
I don't actually think you do... as most people don't.
The actual change happened because of the morello take over... and he didn't like Coronoch which created a few characters so this was seemingly the perfect opportunity to send them a dirty finger while claiming it was him.
plus every excuse they had was bs. "nobody knew what she did" because you never put her F2p. "She required teammates knowing what she did" again, not a problem if they know what she did and right after the rework they started with champs like Yuumi that are nearly 100% reliant on teammates to use their abilities so, the lie detector determined THAT was a lie.
the only thing a mystery is why did old karma never become f2p and why was she the only champion to never have a champion spotlight.
it would have been awesome if karmas rework centered around bonding with a champion and trying to get the most out of it. whether it meant her new abilities centered around the target or the chain itself or if the abilities somehow lengthened the duration of the chain and empowered it. karmas new kit is just so safe and bottom of the barrel in terms of creativity lol.
I completely forgot about old karma. Fitting i guess
I wish riot kept the damage on her shield overload, why? Because sometimes your other abilities are in cool down.
I'm surprised that you didn't talk about how they failed at keeping her identity so bad that they decided to make the traditional skin so that it didn't feel so bad for Karma players. And this made them reevaluate how they did future reworks.
So true, old karma was UNIQUE not even 1 champ is like old karma was even these days...i hope they someday release a "lol classics" like urf, aram, etc with all those old champs...or at least make another champ with a similar kit as the old karma 😭😔
no, instead he said they DID keep her identity... which was not true.
Good ol' Karma.
Also, Shaco video when?
Riot did what I wanted and didn't want at the same time. I just wanted the Q to slow and for the w to root instead of slow. But they decided to change her completely.
Old karma was waaaaaaaaay more unique, like, the only one with that playstyle: having critical health, bait people and then BOOM YOU ARE DEATH IN A SEC AND I'M BACK WITH MORE THAN HALF HEALTH... the ACTUAL karma, after all the nerfs, can't do nearly as much damage as the old one, she lost more than half of her identity...BUT...i have to admit that she is more versatile now, and a waay better support too...i guess we the old karma mains are the only ones who can really love her more than the new one, and unfortunately, we were so few people that main her back in the day...i still love the new karma, at least she kind of has the "bait people into her low health" with the new mantra w...but i miss sooooo much my old karma, she was the queen of outplays 😭...hope a "LoL classics" can be a thing someday, like urf, aram etc, with all those old champions 😢
Honestly with the new radiant virtue build top/mid karma feels way better than supp and has a higher winrate
Ains Karma... This champion...
Aside of my skill issue of not being able to do anything with her and then facing her and being hard stomped, I have never been "called" out by that champ.
Opinions about the E damage burst: She used to have that? The more you know
Opinions about rework: It really tells you more about Riot's way of making champs. Her abilities are long because of the Mantra effect. Outside of that, her abilities are really simple.
Now we look at more modern champions and it feels a bit lacking: No clear powerspike, no double passive, no % damage, no big flashy moves...
I like Karma as a concept: A generalist champ that could be used anywhere if built (and played) right. However, generalists' era is over. Now is all about specialization.
very nicely done video
Nice video...but i would love to see wild rift karma in lol pc.
She lost heal on her w and aoe mantra e.....but she has a real ult in the form of mini ori ult and her old ult become her p and her w can root up to 2 champs and the mantra w add extra teahter between the 2 champs so even if they are out of the range of her w if they dont move away from each other they will get rooted and for longer time.
Overall a more fun karma
It's not mini ori ult but bigger one
Voyboy played tank karma top in like s5 or s6, i dont remember what season, but he used to dumpster on people with it.
They should do something completely new and instead of releasing a new champion, release a 2nd form of Karma. Then before the game starts you can select Karma and choose which one you want to play.
That way they wouldn't have to remove either Karma, so both type of Karma players would be pleased, and you wouldn't have the issue of 2 characters with almost the same kit running around.
I know it will never happen, but old Karma is so much more fun to me than the new one. :c
I may be a bit late but imo karma over the years has kind of suffered the oh so dreadful tendency from riot to forcing champion into a designated role rather then letting them be used in more niche situations, even if the people playing those niches are few and far between, an example would be the fact that even tho playing pyke in a solo lane is actively playing with a crippled leg until lvl 6 they just went ahead and kept nerfing it when the initial nerfs were enough to make him a very weak choice anywhere but support, tho in karma's case i view her rework more of like what happened to volibear since he is a champion i used to play a lot pre rework and still like past rework, both cases had their kit changed despite being extremely faithful to their previous incarnation but changed enough where the ability to play them in in more then an extremely straight forward manner became all but impossible, making both of them honestly a tad big boring compared to how they used to be or downright unfair to play against at some point in their post rework lifespan
Full ap rune page into Ap book get low and type on all. Chat „HEY GUYS LOOK AT ME I HAVE 100ap lvl one” miss those times xD
well now they try their hardest to keep their identity of the character during the rework. they have been poiting this out very clear. but for karma they did all they could do destroy every single detail of her identity. her lore, her apperance, her weapon fans, her kit. everything. they even remvoed the aoe shield just because that. duality was her thing wether being supportive or offensive, that was even in her reworked lore. she was the person to fight with ionian magic. they hated her duality so much that they even changed her lore again after her rework :D?!
Do you plan on covering Quinn? I miss old Quinn and hate where she is in the game right now. XD
I basically haven't played Quinn since her rework, so I feel the same way.
But why does she look like her spine was crushed in half in her portrait?
I loved the old Karma, it's why I bought her, and screw them for not just making a new character.
Talon - Before The Rework
Hey i wanna know now, witch champ do you think is the best made since they came out?
You know what they say about first times: *They usually suck.* In Karma's case i feel they focused on the wrong issues, just like with Kayle. Karma's issue was her W and passive being useless promoting uninteractive gameplay, while her R was too easy to get and didn't promoted actual decision making (You use empowered Q and E always). The solution was surprisingly simple in that sense: Make her W an hability, her old passive the current one and make her only have one R at the time.
Karma's kit is less flexible than before, specially after S5, and is because they still didn't have standards of identity preservation. That being said the rework was surprisingly good, altough with that i mean i'm surprised it didn't end up in an Aatrox level of change; very meh as a rework, just like with Aurelion Sol's second rework (The first one is just disastrous) or Galio, but by no means the worst because Aatrox no longer exists.
Sorry i stop reading when you said "passive being useless"...are you serious??? THAT was the MAIN identity of old karma (along with nuke shield) all real old karma mains knows that
This isn't really a good comment because it is... hmm... uneducated I guess is the word.
Her passive was broken, not useless. They even said that her passive was too good, even if nobody knew what it was.
Her W was one of her better abilities, but it was HARDER to use right.
The problem was nothing with old karma being useless, the problem was she was never F2P so a lot of people never even had a chance to see her or play her. Heck, she didn't even have a champion spotlight when she WAS released. (she was the only champ to not have either a f2p week or a spotlight)
but to go over, her W being really good just hard to use... it had decent range. It also had one of the highest damage and scaling if you tether zapped with it. Tether zapping you had either an ally who was quick take it and run with you and jump onto the enemies with it (thus zapping them all). Zapped enemies ALSO get their movement speed reduced which was huge in a team fight with an initiator who knew what to do with it. Oh and your allies wh oran through the tether also got their speed increased so long as they were in the tether so either a .5 second boost or a 5 second boost (while difficult is possible just don't rely on it) Or you could use it to do insane things with or against fast characters like Shyvana. Shyvana Ally? Take it and she takes you with her to ransack into enemies. Shyvana enemy? Use it on her and ruin her chase. and of course, the tether zapping damage aspect worked if you threw it on wards, so you could throw a ward behind enemy 'standing zones' and constantly zap them and they wouldn't know where the ward was you're zapping them from. It was low CD, high damage, and only moderate on the mana cost.
the rework actually wasn't good at all, her only good skill was her team shield speed buff was great for initiation and maybe that's all a team needs. But her Q and W are far worse post rework. And 'you only mantra'd q and e with old karma"! well, you only mantra e with new karma. Mantra Q is a waste when people walk out of it so easily and mantra W requires you to be in a dangerously close situation... and the fact she has a SPEED BOOST SHIELD means she's not likely to stand close enough for W to last long enough to heal a good amount or snare without her being killed.
I've admittedly been playing karma mid for a VERY long time. I gotta say, the fact they nerfed her AP ratios because of her toplane tank meta is lowkey insulting.
She's not supposed to be a burst mage, she's a battle mage (mages that can stay in the fight for extended durations like karthus, Swian, Vladimir). Her passive lowers her CD. Her EW heals her based on on her missing HP and she has a slow + speed up to stay perfect kiting range.
She's also mixed into an enchanter role but falls off there due to Athens now being Yuumi's new passive (imo it would've worked better as Karma's passive)
To that point, she's mixed in a bad mix of the two right now really because she's the meme like top laner, mid laner with bad ratios, and a shield bot enchantress. It IS possible to mix her style into a low range high movement mage who also can support. But I doubt we'll see anything other than the wild rift gameplay being better than the normal rift one.
Losing the shield bomb does really hurt too. It gave her options which could've been very needed in current days league. Losing the current AoE movement speed on her RE and giving mini shields with just like a 30% base ratio would've been a fine way to keep her duality of both being a constant damage dealer and a hero enchantress in tact. But now she's missing out on both due riot wishing to push her into either the top lane or support.
(If you don't believe me about the battle mage part, I highly suggest you take ultimate hat on karma and remember that her Q gets to a 3 second CD with some cdr. Played right you can 1 v 1 any champion although it'll take a long time due to her refusal to die RW)
Used to main mid as Karma, always had people scream and complain until I went 5, then 10-0 against fotm mid.
What I think is Oh God I've been playing since S3?!
Even if she got 1x buffed with 10% increase dmg, its nothing due the massive nerfs they did on karma. I never play her again, which is sad. Also karma mid and top i did used, but again i can't play her anymore. Sad the champion is really fun and nice to play
I hear Legend of Zelda music 😃
Man, forgot Karma was even reworked. Been so long. Then again, I also basically never played her. Not before. Not after. Aside from like in ARAM.
Old Karma W was borderline useless for people playing her mid, that's why it wasn't leveled
I cant lie, I was fucking pissed when they reworked her. I used to play her so much, playing around things like tripple R stack, good positioning for Q heal and poking with E.
But she sucked lmao
I miss the old Q
Old Karma Q was why I played Karma. That reason has moved to E.
Sa ela sa tirivi
Bababooey
bababooey indeed
@@michaliskioupkiolis4140 ah, a baba-liever
Old karma was better design and mechanic wise
I always thought this rework was dogshit and basically completely removed every aspect of a cool champ from the game. I know her old kit was clunky and not the most refined, but they kept very little of it the same and made her gameplay feel VERY different. As someone who's been playing the game steady since old Karma was a thing, I played it a ton and I was severely disappointed when the rework came out because the kit wasn't remotely similar. Beyond that, her personality felt pretty different and I dislike the current voice which feels like it never has any emotion or depth to it. Oh, and current Karma is incredibly boring to look at compared to old Karma. You can't tell what she's supposed to be and she doesn't look interesting at all, she just looks like some generic videogame character, which is what she is currently.
So to recap, they removed her kit, removed her personality, and removed her appearance, then replaced all of them with the most generic uninteresting shit they could. In no way would I call the Karma rework "good," if anything it was just the first example of Riot assassinating a champion and removing them from the game. It's like saying the Aatrox rework was good; it wasn't because it wasn't a rework, it just removed old Aatrox entirely in every way. Current Karma is just a generic, oversimplified shadow of what was once a real character.
I think the thing I miss most about old Karma though, is that she actually took skill to play. Just understanding how her kit worked was difficult compared to most champions, and using it took constant good decision making. This is the primary reason few people played her: she was one of the most difficult champions in the game. Current Karma is absolutely brainless, anyone and everyone plays her and you can just FEEL how much the lack of skill is helping them win when you play against her. And she's not even fun to play as anymore because yeah she's overpowered as fuck if you know what you're doing, but it's not very fun or rewarding. It's just a braindead generic champ who's designed to win lane really easily, and nothing in her kit or design is really interesting at all anymore.
Old karma was way cooler
so just finished this video. and boy do I have a lot to say about this, since you glossed over a few things and seemingly fluffed up a lot of the immediate karma rework.
Old karma #1. Nobody knew her because Riot NEVER gave her a f2p week. Never. She was the only champion they refused to put her on a roster and I have no idea why. Also, I really despise the rework and Scarizards take on how to work it. Riotguinso was working on it and his ideas were actually holding much better than this one. Instead of having a mantra mini ult, you'd have the option of double tapping a 2 stack of mantra if you've built it up into an additional effect. If I remember right it was something like Q3- pushback enemies W3- Channel heal into ally, or channel damage into enemy during it (and I believe Karma was going to be healed with it regardless). E3 Stun/snares enemies hit by it. This made spirit bond actually worth mantraing while not taking away the use of the other 2 as well (original karma only doubling the speed boost/penalty was underwhelming compared to Q's heal or E's long range damage.
Old Karma Q. I found this to be the upset of the popular Morgana lane that relied on her tainted soil for minion kills. Heal minions just enough so that tainted soil can't kill it. Creep denial is huge. Not to mention that heal working on minions was so great for lane pushing when you needed it by keeping all your minions higher for longer.
Old karma W. You went really quickly over this for the most important skill she had. You completely missed out on the fact that it did MORE damage than soul shield without even needing to mantra it, so doing something like the 'ward zap' using it was a valid thing to do in lane, or as a jungler in s3, made her broken by zapping wards in enemy jungle to creep steal and gank enemy junglers. It may not have been as brain dead easy to learn as the shield bomb was but that's the whole point in a high risk high reward move.
Old karma E. Shield bombing minions was such a massive upset in lane against a lot of people.
Old karma Jungling: you barely went into it, but the machete in S3 made her a sleeper OP jungler and is the only reason I went so high into it. I'm not a great player, but my jungle karma made me look like I was. (and all the 'report troll jungle karma' comments at the start of matches was chefs kiss there)
Her jungle kill camp was so ridiculously fast, spending only a few seconds at each camp lead to massive downtime and ability to counter jungle real quick. Toss in some wards, steal their wraiths/wolves as they spawn, catch them trying to get the wolves but then boom, shield bomb and tether zap the ward to both steal and kill them or at least weaken them enough so they're forced to back and then go on your marry way stealing their jungle all over again. This never failed in any of the games I jungled karma.
The ganking may not have been the greatest in lane, but she was tanky enough to go behind tower and tank it so your laners can go under it for a few seconds. If no kill is secured? They're going to be forced back anyways. So all you do is heal your laners up and go back, leaving them with the ability to stay in lane, farm, and/or push tower a lot harder. This isn't something any other jungler could do. Alistar could SORT of do it and while his ganking was better, his healing and jungle clear was by far much slower and he needed more gear than Karma to do it, whereas karma had the freedom to not need as much gear to do it to spend throwing 10 wards on the map for constant map awareness + tethering for self speed boost/ganking.
New Karma... garbage. Did you see their original recommendation? Put stupid 'Ad runes' on her because she's gotta auto attack for her passive. the crap...
Anyways. her passive is meh because her kit is meh.
Q: it's not that damaging, it's not that accurate and she's a MAGE who can't penetrate minions...? That instantly knocks her down in usability where all you have to do is use the minions against her. Old karma used minions against her enemies, new karma is ruined by them. This was such a bad skill. Mantra Q is even worse because the delay field is so inaccurate most characters can easily walk out of it even when you DO manage to hit them with it.
W: This is more garbage. "I can heal myself and if I don't die I'll snare you" except... that's the problem, it was so short on a fragile mage that almost every character would kill her as she tried to heal/snare. Especially in an era where bruiser/fighters dominated. Yay, a mage that now has to be in melee range that also can't penetrate minions 0/2 riot.
E: This is the only move that was any decent on her kit. Shield bomb or not, it didn't need that damage removed either way. It was there for the speed buff and team shield in an initiate. But that's really all karma had was to assist was her E. Everything else she did was so lackluster. in a team fight, her Q's gonna hit the tank, not the ADC or enemy mage while they're attacking you and your ADC and other damage dealers. Don't you DARE use W in a team fight. This was the only thing she had going for her and it wasn't even that much of a thing.
Old karma even if she wasn't better than new karma (if she wasn't. I'd argue she was way better), she had her place and niche whereas new karma is beaten out by other mages and supports at every point of what she's supposed to do. Trying to use the blue build to justify her when if you want to rely on that? Uh... You have Ezreal who did that, but better. You had Elise who could do that, but again better. And elise could more reliably push towers, escape into the jungle and self sustain. comparing great players who decided to nerf themselves by putting a good build on a bad character doesn't mean the character is good.
"new karma is stronger" ha...haha... ha...
I really miss Karmas old Q with 60% ap scaling 🥲 wish that she atheist would have 50% so she old be viable a bit later on to the game aswell. Or take 10% from her empower Q to her normal Q. I don't know....
old Q .6 old e .8 and W .7 (with a much higher base damage) yet everyone keeps forgetting it did damage and a lot of it.
@dragames they did buff her Q to 50% ap rate because she struggled late game, so... 😅 but yeah it used to do super much against squishy
@@Tochinden I was specifically pointing out her W had a lot of damage on it. It took 300 ap for Soul shield bomb to equal what W's damage did with that 10% higher AP scaling, but spirit bond was also lower mana cost on a lower CD so if you got good with it, it was your best bet for higher dps. It just wasn't as stupid simple as 'cone wave damage' or 'shield bomb AoE damage'.