In my first playthrough I deferred to Riordan and spared Loghain. He had gone through the Joining with Duncan and doubtless understood more about the Wardens than the PC or Alistair. I was shocked at Alistair’s visceral reaction, but later I realized that he wasn’t exactly thrilled to take on any of our companions except maybe Wynne and Oghren.
I think betraying Jowen during Mage origin story is also evil. i mean the guy saw us as a very close friend and we just go to the First enchanter and say "you know my friend Jowen? He wants to run away"... and it gets even more evil if you plead for his execution later Theres also the fact that you can call out Morrigan as a blood mage and tell it to the templars
While the other points you make are valid. Jowan is a circle mage inducted in its traditions and knows whole heartedly why mages aren't trusted to have free roam of society. Jowan is a traitorous apostate and him turning to blood magic out of desperation (likely after covorting with daemons like how we can acquire blood magic) and dealing with Howe are nothing fearful act of a traitor, whereas Morrigan is largely alienated from Fereldan and kept (during the game) in check as part of the retinue of a Grey Warden. She's also not a maleficarum and instead deals in forgotten (elvish magic) of shapeshifting. Mages are fucking dangerous in DA some rare examples of trustworthy apostates do not excuse that. They're basically like Pyskers from Warhammer. Sure they're useful but they might get power hungry or randomly explode and kill you're entire neighbourhood. If keeping them oppressed keeps 99% of them from doing that. The circle is justified. Killing Jowan or having him executed is the only real recompense for his actions.
There’s the fact the game TELLS US via Jowan himself that he’s an old friend. We don’t get to see it before he’s waking the PC up demanding to know about their Harrowing (so they can tell him the secrets so he can pass, so he’s not even doing it necessarily because he’s worried about the PC, he’s doing it because he’s panicking about saving his own skin). Then there’s the fact that HE chooses to get into a relationship with a chantry sister, when they both know she’s not allowed to be in a romantic relationship with any one else, and it’s heavily implied that mages in towers aren’t really supposed to either, but everyone just tries to ignore them (Anders joking that they wear robes for “easy access” in case the Templars show up, Wynne has, at least, one sexual encounter with a Templar, but she never says outright, or tells the story of how it happened, and it’s implied because she doesn’t want to get the Templar in trouble as much as anything, there’s the mage you find in the Hinterlands in Origins who was waiting for her Templar lover and says “how can they expect grown men and women to live together in confined spaces and NOT get up to anything”, and remember Kinloch Hold is in the middle of the lake, so no easy access to brothels for the Templars, unlike in Kirkwall - where Templars at the blooming rose doesn’t raise any eyebrows). So, they both get into a forbidden relationship, and he gets suspected of being a blood mage (because he’s being shifty), so decides to learn blood magic to protect himself, from accusations of being a blood mage because he was being shifty while in a forbidden romance. Facepalm, Jowan, facepalm. And convincing his “best friend” to help him run away (by destroying his phalactary” is what leads him to using blood magic to escape, and get caught and bribed by Loghain (who AGREES TO SMOOTH EVERYTHING OVER SO HE CAN RETURN TO KINLOCH HOLD, the very place he was RUNNING AWAY FROM, as if Loghain/Howe wouldn’t have just killed him when they were finished with him, or the risk of the Arl/essa doing it for poisoning the Arl, or whatever). And his girlfriend Lily gets sent to Mage prison (and by Inquistion it’s noted to be empty with no explanation….cause that’s not ominous), and his “best friend” has had to become a Grey Warden, whether they wanted to or not. Yeah, turning him into Irving isn’t evil. It’s a way to save your own skin from his overwhelming stupidity. He really al,ost would have been better off as a tranquil, he might be safer to himself.
I'd say the only options that are unabashedly evil is trading Connor for Blood Magic and tainting the Urn. The rest are more varying levels of pragmatic. Killing Connor outright is what the Chantry would do, so that's arguably the right, if tragic, thing to do according to the world's internal morality. Siding with the Dragon Cult is so chaotic stupid that even your less scrupulous companions will comment on it. I'd also argue that sparing Loghain for the Wardens isn't even morally ambiguous, it's just straight up the right thing to do.
Awesome comment :) Another Evil act would be how you handle the Dalish Dilemma. Resolving the feud is pretty straight forward and you have to be willingly ignorant not to try and get the keeper to end the curse. Having werewolves on your side at the final battle is bad ass though.... Loghain is a beast and Alistair throwing a tantrum over not fulfilling his revenge fantasy is enough reason to tell him to fuck off. The grey wardens are pragmatic at their core. They'd throw a shit fit over wasting an opportunity to recruit Loghain.
@ i forgot about the Dalish. Now that you mention it, I’m surprised that wasn’t mentioned in the video. That’s a way more complex choice than Orzammar’s succession, I just wish they’d made it more challenging to get the golden outcome. Or rather, challenging at all! No need for side quests and not even one persuasion check smh
First time playing, I think I gave Bhelen the crown. I can't remember, I just remember opening up.Orzammar to Ferelden
That would be bhelen then 🙂
In my first playthrough I deferred to Riordan and spared Loghain. He had gone through the Joining with Duncan and doubtless understood more about the Wardens than the PC or Alistair.
I was shocked at Alistair’s visceral reaction, but later I realized that he wasn’t exactly thrilled to take on any of our companions except maybe Wynne and Oghren.
He is certainly older and more experienced in war 🤷♂️
I think betraying Jowen during Mage origin story is also evil. i mean the guy saw us as a very close friend and we just go to the First enchanter and say "you know my friend Jowen? He wants to run away"... and it gets even more evil if you plead for his execution later
Theres also the fact that you can call out Morrigan as a blood mage and tell it to the templars
While the other points you make are valid. Jowan is a circle mage inducted in its traditions and knows whole heartedly why mages aren't trusted to have free roam of society. Jowan is a traitorous apostate and him turning to blood magic out of desperation (likely after covorting with daemons like how we can acquire blood magic) and dealing with Howe are nothing fearful act of a traitor, whereas Morrigan is largely alienated from Fereldan and kept (during the game) in check as part of the retinue of a Grey Warden. She's also not a maleficarum and instead deals in forgotten (elvish magic) of shapeshifting.
Mages are fucking dangerous in DA some rare examples of trustworthy apostates do not excuse that.
They're basically like Pyskers from Warhammer. Sure they're useful but they might get power hungry or randomly explode and kill you're entire neighbourhood. If keeping them oppressed keeps 99% of them from doing that. The circle is justified. Killing Jowan or having him executed is the only real recompense for his actions.
There’s the fact the game TELLS US via Jowan himself that he’s an old friend. We don’t get to see it before he’s waking the PC up demanding to know about their Harrowing (so they can tell him the secrets so he can pass, so he’s not even doing it necessarily because he’s worried about the PC, he’s doing it because he’s panicking about saving his own skin).
Then there’s the fact that HE chooses to get into a relationship with a chantry sister, when they both know she’s not allowed to be in a romantic relationship with any one else, and it’s heavily implied that mages in towers aren’t really supposed to either, but everyone just tries to ignore them (Anders joking that they wear robes for “easy access” in case the Templars show up, Wynne has, at least, one sexual encounter with a Templar, but she never says outright, or tells the story of how it happened, and it’s implied because she doesn’t want to get the Templar in trouble as much as anything, there’s the mage you find in the Hinterlands in Origins who was waiting for her Templar lover and says “how can they expect grown men and women to live together in confined spaces and NOT get up to anything”, and remember Kinloch Hold is in the middle of the lake, so no easy access to brothels for the Templars, unlike in Kirkwall - where Templars at the blooming rose doesn’t raise any eyebrows). So, they both get into a forbidden relationship, and he gets suspected of being a blood mage (because he’s being shifty), so decides to learn blood magic to protect himself, from accusations of being a blood mage because he was being shifty while in a forbidden romance. Facepalm, Jowan, facepalm. And convincing his “best friend” to help him run away (by destroying his phalactary” is what leads him to using blood magic to escape, and get caught and bribed by Loghain (who AGREES TO SMOOTH EVERYTHING OVER SO HE CAN RETURN TO KINLOCH HOLD, the very place he was RUNNING AWAY FROM, as if Loghain/Howe wouldn’t have just killed him when they were finished with him, or the risk of the Arl/essa doing it for poisoning the Arl, or whatever). And his girlfriend Lily gets sent to Mage prison (and by Inquistion it’s noted to be empty with no explanation….cause that’s not ominous), and his “best friend” has had to become a Grey Warden, whether they wanted to or not.
Yeah, turning him into Irving isn’t evil. It’s a way to save your own skin from his overwhelming stupidity. He really al,ost would have been better off as a tranquil, he might be safer to himself.
Did he know about the city elf origin? Was waiting for that to pop up
I'd say the only options that are unabashedly evil is trading Connor for Blood Magic and tainting the Urn. The rest are more varying levels of pragmatic. Killing Connor outright is what the Chantry would do, so that's arguably the right, if tragic, thing to do according to the world's internal morality. Siding with the Dragon Cult is so chaotic stupid that even your less scrupulous companions will comment on it.
I'd also argue that sparing Loghain for the Wardens isn't even morally ambiguous, it's just straight up the right thing to do.
Awesome comment :)
Another Evil act would be how you handle the Dalish Dilemma. Resolving the feud is pretty straight forward and you have to be willingly ignorant not to try and get the keeper to end the curse. Having werewolves on your side at the final battle is bad ass though....
Loghain is a beast and Alistair throwing a tantrum over not fulfilling his revenge fantasy is enough reason to tell him to fuck off. The grey wardens are pragmatic at their core. They'd throw a shit fit over wasting an opportunity to recruit Loghain.
@ i forgot about the Dalish. Now that you mention it, I’m surprised that wasn’t mentioned in the video. That’s a way more complex choice than Orzammar’s succession, I just wish they’d made it more challenging to get the golden outcome. Or rather, challenging at all! No need for side quests and not even one persuasion check smh
Play tutorial awsome
Through dragon age origins?
Some people can’t watch one minute nowadays.
@rungunninja1289 what are you talking about 😭