1200 miles around Ireland on Himalayan 450 - Is it better?
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- Опубликовано: 31 май 2024
- One of the tours I ran this year was around Ireland following much of the Wild Atlantic Way.
I took the new 450 Himalayan. Here's my verdict on it as a touring bike.
I've turned comments off until Monday when I'm back from my holidays.
A short sperate video adding context to the weight comment I made in the video. As some of you will attest, for a lot of riders it's not going to be a problem. For shorter/older/weaker riders it could be. But go and try it for yourself...
ruclips.net/video/PNgMwIooG2A/видео.html
Did the same test today, the 1250 was heavier 😂 just kidding , still I don't have the issue the bike for me feels nimble enough, but fun to see the difference ,
I am very happy with the 450 and believe the limitations of the 411 have been addressed. Good bike, at 9 grand in Australia, it's unbeatable.
I am 59 and I have just been touring the Peak District on my 411 for a long weekend. I have had it three years after a break from biking for 20 years. It has built my confidence steadily. So glad I chose it (to be honest mainly because of Itchy Boots and your reviews). I realised on this latest trip that I have lost my nerves and was gleefully bowling round the Peak District bends. Had a grin on my face the whole time. Even when you 'over cook' it a bit in a bend it is forgiving. Great bike, I won't be buying a 450.
As a 5'7", 62-year-old Scram 411 owner with only 2 years of riding under my belt, this review was particularly pertinent and useful to me. Thanks! And cheers, mate!
Mate, this is the best and most honest review I've seen of this bike. And the first I've seen that says the 411 might be better. Thanks.
Every time I tour on my 411 it makes this 62 yr old smile. Im lucky I could buy ( and have in the past) any bike on planet earth.
Seeking better will not bring joy only contentment with your choice will achieve that.
So along we go me and my 411 keeper.
I rode away from the dealer on a new 411 on the 1st of March this year. Obviously at this time I could not have road tested the new one but I could have waited for and bought the 450. I'm not saying the 450 is a bad bike, and neither is Nathan, and I still haven't had a go on one, but from road tests that had come out at the time when dealers were selling the 411 for £4000 on the road I just wasn't sure about the 450. I thought the 411 was a great buy. I'm really glad I went for it, got 2200 miles on it now and I love it. I got the Enfield boxes and rack at a bit of a discount and with my Acerbis handguards I've forked out £4500 up to now. I believe the new 450 with tubeless rims is £6200, don't know if you have on the road costs on that price.
Weise Worte😊
@@davidrobinson4118 Just o add that the CF Moto has tubeless as standard. It also has other features anyone considering dirt use would likely want and save any prospective buyer quite a bit in upgrades. Folding brake, gear levers and even mirrors. Oh, and by all accounts the headlight actually lights up the road, A common complaint of the new RE.
@@CosmikDebriis Yes, it looks like an interesting, value for money bike.
@@davidrobinson4118 Such different bikes (with obv similarities). Agree with you. 411 is so different. Got mine for sub £3k with 4500 miles on it & dome decent mods. New 450 with mods around £7k (upgraded can, tyres, heated grips, barkbusters etc). My 411 can sit at 70mph doing 5k revs. A relaxed characterful bike which is not premium, not fast but comfy capable heavy & underpowered. A future classic. Nathan is spot-on.
Fair comments, I own a 450 and for me personally I didn't like the 411 because of the reasons you and many others liked it for.
I love my 411 Himalayan, and I’m glad I bought it when I did. I appreciate your honesty as many moto-bloggers will just toe the company line. I’ve never known a motorcycle company ask riders what they want, they just aren’t interested in our opinions “as they know best”. Keep up the good work!
I met one of the guys (a professional racer) who worked with the engineers to design the 450. I also got to ride the 411 on an 800km tour through NE India and ride a 450 for a bit for comparison. The 450 felt chunkier, smoother, sturdier, and more powerful than the 411. Both the bikes felt super easy to ride. Given the choice I might have picked the 450 for the 800km ride. I've ridden the 411 through other, rougher parts of the Himalayas and the bike performed like a champ! Fundamentally I think both bikes are different even if they are built for the same purpose.
A lot of younger people are totally into the 450. So the designers have definitely built something that will sell like hot cakes. But I agree with one of the comments I read here - the 411 with a 450 engine would probably satisfy more people.
@@authorsauditions and there lies the problem. Getting racers to help design the bike and it loses its accessibility.
Good review Nathan. Appreciate your honesty and frankness - something very rare in motorcycle reviews in this day and age. Appreciate it 🤗
From what you say, I like the sound of the old one better, especially when you mention the buzziness. The Scram 411 appeals to me more.
Excellent video. Nick
Amazing revelation! Nobody else has had the courage to criticise the 450 or even to identify any downsides at all. With brand new 411's now for sale for well under £4k, it it really makes you put the comparison in perspective. I felt from the start that the original 411 had more radical and purposeful styling but to learn the 450 isn't such a progression in the real world is surprising.
Thankfully, a real review from an owner and not the press! Thanks!
Great honest feedback. Thanks for sharing !!!
How weird Mr Postman - you've just expressed everything I felt - but without me even seeing this bike! I've been bantering with a friend who told me this was the bike I should have got (Instead of the Voge 300R) and I told him that if/when I buy an RE - it would be the 411..... 11/10 for common sense and honesty, as always
Nathan,
you are a thinker.
Thanks for your reviews!
I love your channel.
Cheers from Germany,
Andreas
I watch Joe Ryan touring Australia on his 411and even watching him is relaxing. A very good review thanks.
I am 68, I rode in my 20’s (Honda Hawk 400 and BMW R65) got married at 30, had kids, the bikes went away. Divorced, retired, and moved to Mexico, second childhood kicked in, and now have a Royal Enfield Himalayan 411. I find she’s ideal around town and in the country, not much good for the highway as it will not go over 120 kph. The 450 will not have its debut until later this month in Mexico but I have seen and sat on the bike in the back room at the RE dealership, yes, the side stand is a little short but it does not seem to be a issue with me, and it is easier to get on its center stand than the 411. In two weeks, I will find out if the 450 is for me or not, one thing I will not trade in my 411, she’s a keeper (even if she has fallen over all by herself on two occasions).
Thank you Mr M. Great review.
Thank you Nathan for your honest dissent
Wow, Nathan this is so spot on, I don't think I have ever ridden a bike that so endeared the rider like the 411. I sold mine because my wife wanted to ride pillion. It was a very reluctant sale with only the motorway leg of the trip to the dealership to buy an SM 650 alleviating some of my sadness. I've never really embraced the new 450 and said so on release. Like you say to the none 411 owners what you never had you cannot compare. But the 411 is a future classic for sure. Great video mate, ride safe✌️
Thanx fof your opinion man 🤘👍
Hay your probably “ the small capacity expert 👍☝️, just to address the 450 problems.
1. Chain and sprocket change for longer legs on road speeds .
2. Taller touring screen &
3. THE big one ☝️ side stand - lean angle ( in the past I have fitting hockey pucks the stand bases ( that lean over to far ) at least 3 bikes . Works a treat , cheap , solid rubber and as a bonus gives the bike better spreed on sand soft ground etc . And I agree ☝️ I’m 56 and happy to just cruise along ( most of the time ) I have a 300 Rally and a Moto Guzzi V85tt - I know you had one .
Regards
Paul from Australia.
Thanks Paul. Yes totally, lots of ways to remedy it. I was out on the 400X Triumph yesterday. It made me realise that what I don't like about the Himalayan is the engine. That Triumph engine is so flexible, strong power, a bit low geared but where the RE is hunting between 2nd and 3rd, the Triumph can be in 2nd, 3rd or 4th.... there's just so much flex in the power. Makes it so much easier and enjoyable to ride. Triumph engine in the Himi chassis and we'd have a winnter.
Would like to try the taller screen. Again, the Triumph with no screen has less turbulence than the stock Himi screen. It's odd.
And agreed, side stand pucks would be good, but I think for those who are struggling with the bike as standard they're still going to struggle with the top heavy weight, especially in dirt, tight situations etc.
The last two days I've had 5 different riders take out the 411, the 450 and the Triumph. Three went away to buy 411s. No one wanted the Triumph or 450 Himi. The biggest thorn in the 450s side is the bloody 411!
But look. I think the 450 for the right rider it's going to be an absolute winner. A younger stronger rider perhaps, who wants a great road/trail bike and to ride with a bit of spirit. Perfect for that job.
Keep us posted on how you're getting on with yours.
@@nathanthepostmanbloody fab reply😂
I really don't see the side stand lean as an issue. I've had other bikes with more and less lean angles.
@@jdabel1many people won't find it an issue. But speak to a dealer and ask how many potential customers are having a problem that they didn't have on the previous bike. A lot of old boys bought Himalayans. It's a big number of customers to lose.
Taller touring screen - I think that depends on where you ride.
Riding these bikes in India - I wanted the wind to hit me - was the only way to stay cool.... ish.
Also, rarely was I riding fast enough or long enough at high speeds where the wind got tiring.
My scram 411 has taken me places I didn't now existed. It's the bargain of the century.
Thanks for your thoughts and time. Cheers!
Great honest review, I am at a crossroads with my Himalayan travels and was contemplating the new 450, but in real life touring the scenarios of picking this up off a side stand in all weird and wonderful conditions,and the worries that come with that are Significant.
After over 45000km on my Himalayan, U summer it up perfectly with the relaxation and Zen like scenario the 411 puts you in , the aspect of a bike wanting you to go faster is not appealing TBH, I will seriously consider buying a second hand 411 upon arrival in Chennai next month
Thanks for that. I'm 61, my only bike is the 411, hadn't had a bike for 35 years. It's been super on long trips and I have huge fun while green-laning.
I'am not ready to give up my 411, unless I progress in rallies enough to need something more powerful. Your review on the 450 has now put the idea of buying one out the window. A bike needs to be alot better than the 411, before I give it up.
Looking forward to your reviews on CF MOTO
Great honest review. The fact that you compared it to the previous model too. 👍
As someone dithering between the two, who has heard the case for the 450 ad nauseam, it's refreshing to hear your perspective. I can only hope your channel has more of the same, but you easily earned a very well-deserved sub!
Thank you for a real talk. 👍
Your feedback is the best on RUclips, great job thanks
Refreshing real world feedback which confirmed my reservations compared to more user friendly 411
Love the honesty
Appreciate your comments on this bike. The 450 has been the incentive for this 5’7’’ 63 year old to become a first time RE owner and I love it. Road handling is superb and the engine loves to be pushed on and is amazingly smooth for a single. I am unlikely to use it off road too much and for my uses I cannot fault it aside from the side stand. You learn to live with it but I can see some being put off by it. Black with the gold wheels makes it a real looker too. Cheers.
I have a Himalayan 411, and a 1050 V-Strom for different trips, thanks for your real review, I'm keeping my bikes as they do as I want and I can afford them !, we can get impression we need more expensive bike's from other youtuber's., I appreciate your thoughts ,faster is not always better, that's why I often choose my 411 over the much faster 1050. Keep producing your vid's Nathan
'
Thanks Nathan for the honest opinions 👍🏻 the 450 has taken everything I love about the 411 away for example the simple air cooled long stroke motor analog clocks etc
As a 411 owner this has answered a few questions for me. I'm going to try a 450 as well as the CFMoto 450MT at some point later this year but my 411 may well remain in the stable owing to the reasons you have highlighted here. Thanks for the honest perspective.
A main concern seem to be lifting it off of the side stand. I am sure, as with the 411's too long sidestand, (and yes, my 411 got blown over a few times, as I live in a windy location), someone will come up with a solution, or a longer stand. Think the issue is whether any alteration will be able to clear the main stand or frame.
Much as I like my 411, after test riding the 452, I found it a much better bike for me, and where I ride locally and tour to
A good honest review and i agree with nearly everything you said. I rode the new 450 last weekend and was really excited to try it but after a 45 minute ride i must admit i walked away a bit underwhelmed. I was all set to order one before i got there but I am glad i tried it first as its not for me. I have had 2 411's in the past and i must admit with the deals available at the moment i am very tempted to get another. The dealer I borrowed it from is also a CF Moto dealer and i asked him how well the new Himalyans were selling and he said there was an initial rush but sales have now slowed down and he said quite a few people are waiting to try the CF Moto 450 before they make a decision.
also, nearly all sales have slowed down. Not just M/C but car and caravan sales all stagnating.
I have had mine now for 5 weeks and really enjoying it, I had the 411 before. I do find it more comfortable to ride and whilst I am not a seasoned rider (got my licence 2 years ago) I find it much more engaging to ride. I should add that I fit bang on as a typical rider, 64 and 5ft 9!! I enjoy the handling, gearbox is slick. I went out yesterday for ride around my local area and one track that I would do without hesitation on the 411 proved to be more challenging on the 450. That may well have been done to me and being on a newer bike. Not fussed about the side stand as easy to change, hitchcocks will have one available pretty soon. Good review though as you tell it how it is.
Good honest review
Great and honest review, thanks
Probably one of the best unbiased motorcycle reviews on RUclips.
A man of Integrity 👏 👏
An honest man.
Thank you Nathan, great video as always.
I was beginning to lose faith in a lot of the motorcycle videos because of Marketing and Click Bait titles.
I was blocked 🚫 by one of our leading UK 🇬🇧 motorcycle vloggers for not liking where he positioned a tool kit bag.
I spent 3 hours on a 450 demo and thought it was outstanding. I didn't struggle with the side stand or vibrations, but then it had done 1100 miles. I've never ridden the 411 so as you say, that's why the 450 might appeal.
Yeah totally. Perception is everything with this bike so I can completely understand why someone would love it. As I said in the video, it's a great bike for the right rider.
@@nathanthepostman it definitely ticks all the boxes for me.
Vibrations? Have you ever been on a road trip on an old Harley?
Nathan, A very comprehensive and open minded review. I agree with your points on the old 411 Himalayan model, I have yet to take a test ride on this new 450 model but I plan to soon. Sometimes the Manufacturers don't seem to listen to the feedback from the Bike users across the age band. If they did they might produce a bike in that segment that people really want. I have considered trading up to the new 450 but I will wait until I can test ride the 450 with a lot of miles on the clock, to get a better overall picture of the bike. I currently have had my second 411 Himalayan ( purchased new now on 6500miles) upgraded with the Hitchcock's Valves, Hitchcock's heavy duty Clutch and Heavy Clutch springs, Fuel -X Lite and Hitchcock's Cam Shaft. I am currently bedding in all the new components which will be followed by a Service which will be due by then. I am not expecting to gain great advantages, I just wanted to improve the bike overall. I still enjoy riding the 411 Himalayan. I hope you have a great remainder of your trip on the WAW in Ireland. It's a great place to ride a Motorcycle. Continually following you on here so interested in your reviews and posts. Best wishes.
I think that it's worth bearing in mind that RE sell as many bikes in three days than they sell in the UK. In the US the equation is 1 month's home sales to a year.
Great review, I sat on the 450 and did find it heavy of the side stand , it's a very big bike. The appeal of the 411 was the easy maintenance, the 450 has shimmed valves. I wanted a long distance relaxing ride which the 411 seems a lot more suitable for. The 450 too me is a completely different bike from the 411 which is not what I wanted.
As ever proper thoughts I only did 12miles and found as a 411 owner not bike for me on all points raised.... that doesn't make it a bad bike just different and not what I want... cheers ...
Totally agree, I have had my 411 16 months, I still think it was designed just especially for me.
I love your review I thought similar and my friend who owns a RE dealership has just bought up 7 of the 411 Himalayan bikes to sell in his uk bike shop. I’m very tempted to swap my scram for one rather than the new 450.
I bought the 350 classic two years ago, knowing well why and with no regrets up to today. For the same reasons that You are talking about the previous Himalayan. These simple RE machines are one of the most interesting "niche" bikes for people who know what motorcycle riding in real life means, ... and don't get me wrong: I rode quite some bikes for decades, three side-cars outfits and a Laverda 1200 3cylinder aswell ( a sun-day morning bike, a beast...couldn't ride it nowadays anymore, I'm just too old for that). Thanks for Your review : You confirm that I was right to go for ma 350 classic. Greetings from Luxembourg, ride safe. Jean-Marie
I had the 411 , and yes i loved that bike, but i do like the 450 more , i do not see the things you mention but its all depends on the user, i like what they have done, and i defently feel i sit IN the bike just like the 411 , and i think its easier to get on the center stand than the 411 , and the side stand, hmmm i have no problem with it .. i also dont have any issues with vibrations , and i still feel that the 450 has the tractor effect like the 411 , and can accelerate when needed.. the list for me is longer with positive things than the 411
I love your observations - I am 5'8 & 63 as it happens and been a trail rider since the 80's. The best bike I ever had (at the time) was my Yamaha XT250. went everywhere. I was dismayed by the constant year on year of bigger, higher, faster heavier and more agresive.These days I only have one bike so a want something that can do the motorway miles but also light enough to pick-up when off road. I am please that finally, more mid range twin "adventure bikes" are entering the market and the CF moto 450 looks promissing. Loving your stuff and enjoy Iceland.
Brilliant honest review. Being totally confused as to what to buy as a first road bike at 56 years old, pulled between one road touring mate and a green lane mud plugger, I bought a beautiful 1090 KTM. I know, crap decision. Although a great deal of bike for the money, and hugely capable, I wasn't getting the thrill from riding it unless I was doing silly speeds down single tracks with grass down the middle. Yes, I am an ex-MX and enduro rider! I just happened to get a decent ride on the mud pluggers 411, a bike I would never have considered if I'm honest, and I fell in love with the thing. Still pondering my next purchase, this review has reminded me why the 411 is my next bike, and not the 450. Also, great comment further down which you Nathan have noted, which questions who is designing these bikes, and why do the manufacturers always think they know best. Having worked for car manufacturers I can probably answer that if I'm honest!! The reality is most of us could seriously increase the sales of many bike manufacturers by guiding them on what their bikes need to look and feel like. Cheers Nathan, I'll keep watching. Dale Fletcher.
Great honest review Nathan,
Well I’m coming up 64 and 5”8 I’ve downsized from a GS1250 to the Aprilia Tuareg 660 which I love and will be keeping….. I did used to own a 411 a few years ago….sold it and did miss the adrenaline rush of the bigger bikes….
I test rode the 450 and wasn’t blown away with it tbh……..the best thing about the 450 is that it’s bought the 2nd hand prices of the 411 plummeting and I’ve just picked up a bargain of a 411 with all the extras on that I would of put on anyway and 1300 miles on the clock……🤷♂️
Nice to be back on an old plodder again 😂👍
I'm a 64yr old who has had a 411 (which I liked... but too slow and not enough power to get you out of the shit) I really love this bike and I've had a few. I think they have built a way better bike, I don't think it's a race bike, but I do get about having to change gears a bit more. At 5.9 it's not difficult to get off the stand... yes it could be a fraction more upright ... but I know its not going to fall over. I'm glad I have bought it, I'm glad the 411 is long gone for me... so I disagree Nathan. I also own a classic 500... which I love so I'm not a speed demon but this IS the bike I wish the 411 had been.
Another brilliant perspective, Nathan. I just tested the 450 and the first thing I noticed was the out-sized effort needed to lift it upright from the side stand. I enjoyed the bike once I was under way but I wouldn't feel confident riding it on a muddy lane. The 350 long stroke engine is much more pleasing, smoother and more relaxed, but it really needs another five horsepower to keep ahead of HGVs on the motorways.
Such a shame it didnt quite meet what you were hoping for.
I look forward to your thoughts on the Cfmoto 450MT whenever it finally reaches UK shores.
Really interesting review Nathan. Hands up, not ridden the 450 but have owned my 411 for 4 years. It’s such an endearing little bike. It has its faults but it puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. It’s first test was to take me and all my kit to your Odyssey at Sweetlamb. I couldn’t quite believe how good it was at that task. It chugged along all day getting there, encouraged me to take the smaller roads. B roads all the way to Devon last year too. An off-road novice it gave me the confidences to tackle the whole weekend. Part of that is its size , easy going nature and its low price point. The new model appears to miss the mark a bit, I’d almost say it’d have been better to call it something else as it doesn’t seem to have the Himalayan DNA? ( Something I said the very first time I saw one which didn’t go down well😉)
On the sidestand issue. Yes it can be modified but this is the very first impression of the bike that a prospective buyer gets.possibly intimidated by it before riding a yard. Add luggage and for some it’s just too much. I will ride the 450 at some point , maybe I’ll change my mind, I doubt it though.
Great musings and good to get a different take on things.
Ive ordered the 450, it fell like it still had a charm about it, more poke than a 450cc has any right to have, and handled fantastically. RE are breath of fresh air and hopefully a brand on the up.
Enjoy the new bike Simon. Thanks for commenting
Very interesting. I had already pretty well rejected the new 450 as a replacement for my 411 on rather different grounds without attempting a ride on a 450.. Apart from the riding experience I also really like the 411 for two reasons. One I really like the simple rugged design of the 411 with its air cooled engine that is easy to work on and service. Water cooling, silly upside forks with exposed stanchions and ride by wire, all work against that simple, tough, rugged ethos. Two; I prefer the look of the old 411 by a long chalk. I will keep on riding my 411. It should last for a good few years yet.
That's a great presentation...the two bikes are so close ...and both appeal to a very niche group....I like my 411 as iam old 64 and nackered...so haho..
Greetings from India! I'm 59, I have considered the H450 and dismissed it for precisely the reasons you've mentioned. RE is known for it's torquey engines with great bottom end grunt, if I want the rush of top end power, I'll get a KTM390ADV with 20kg lesser weight. Waiting for the Classic 650, and if they rustle up another 240kg behemoth like the SM650 or the Shotgun, I'll get the good ol' Classic 350 or maybe the Interceptor. Cheers!
The biggest market for the Himalayan is India. And in India, this bike was what was asked for. The common man cannot afford a 650 twin in India. 400 class is considered the premium market in India.
So the designers of the bike were looking at their largest market's demands asking for the exhilaration that they lacked in the class they could afford.
Very, very concise and well presented review of the Himmy 450…thanks for sharing. To sum the bike up, it rather sounds like 2 steps forward, 1 step back, over the 411?
Worth waiting for the oracles verdict. 100% agree and being 5’6” the upper weight and the side stand lean are issues for me. It would be interesting to understand how many are sold to 411 owners against how many are sold to those than know no better ( that’s a joke BTW) but I suspect there are quite a few 411 owners having had a go on the 452 are happy to keep the 411 … me being one of them
Was in a dealership Saturday talking to two 411 owners that had just taken the 452 out for test rides and both were putting deposits down for the new tubeless version. Mid 30’s age group
@@slakk5093 I wonder when those bikes will be delivered?
@@yellownev 2 weeks apparently
I bought a New 450, sold it a few weeks later and bought a Scram 411. I LOVE it, it's a Keeper.!!!
I was interested in the 450 but I decided to go old skool and got a TTR600 (now 620) instead.
46 BHP, can keep up with most twins with decent riders off road, 175kgs with 20 liters of fuel, sweet handling, great Brembos and loads of torque.
Just watched Charley Boorman’s 450 puff piece. I will listen to your opinion every day of the week.
I simply knew it !
Thanks for the honest comment. 👍
Brilliant views from a geezer who rides thousands of miles on bikes often brought with is own money. Not a muppet hoping to be invited to next manufacturers jolly. If you are so shallow that you only want to hear positives about your bike there are lots of people and magazines that can tell you what you want to hear.
Maybe the bike is also a victim of euro regs which make bikes difficult to ride and even dangerous.
Proud of you nathan and your honest reviews looking forward to views on cf moto 450mt.
If you don't want to live in the world don't listen to nathan the postman!
That’s a great real world review.
For the points you made about the 411, are all the point I love about the bike. It’s a bike that just as you say wants to be your friend and companion on the journey. For me personally it’s bike that is a pleasure and joy to ride.
452 I guess is really a road orientated bike, almost a roadster in trail clothing maybe?
As you say a 411 with the 650 interceptor engine would be a very interesting combination, sort of “Super Himalayan” or “Himalayan Continental”.
It’s a shame the 411 I assume won’t continue to be available 😔
Had a 4 hour test ride on the 450 yesterday and I’ve got to agree with a lot of your points Nathan.
Although I did enjoy the bike for a short ride …it felt very agricultural overall. Maybe a mixture of the vibrations and the noise when giving it some (not horrible but noticeable), but it never really felt ‘settled’ anywhere. The bike I rode only had 500 miles on it so it may still have some running in to do but It didn’t seem to overly like the higher speeds, even in 6th gear…and I don’t think I’d want to stay at them for any length of time at all.
I found benefit in almost “short shifting” the gears to try calm the feeling of the bike down as you don’t seem to gain alot from revving it higher, other than more vibrations.
My arse for some reason wasn’t a fan of the seat (everyone’s different) seemed to tilt me forward slightly as if to want me slid against the tank.
Suspension was lovely, standing position felt good, handling once moving was also really direct and nimble and I felt comfortable pretty quickly with the bike. Build quality looked good. Price is good.
I think as you say it’s been directed to a more aggressive riding style, which is great for shorter blasts or trips around and was really enjoyable, but I think living longer term with it or on a longer trip I’d find myself getting tired and wanting a mellow side to the bike that I can munch miles on.
Funny how technically it’s a better bike in every way, but it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the better bike for you aye.
Just my findings of course, and I’m sure others will see and find it differently. For a bit of perspective I’m 36, enjoy speed, not scared or deterred by noise or vibrations from a bike in general. But as a travel bike…. I just don’t think it has that settled, smooth, calm side for distance.
i had the 411,. i hacked the side stand down a bit shorter and welded on a a bigger foot so it it didnt sink in soft stuff so easily but it was needing a bit more hwy speed
As a 390 Adv owner, i was really sold on the new 450. The marketing team had done their job, i was sold.
The 21" front wheel, tubeless spoked wheels, centre stand, factory pannier options
But i considerd the weight, and the rear light/indicator arrangement, and your videos, and meh - ill stick with 390, especially as ive got it how i want it now.
Interesting review, makes me want to try a 411.
PLEASE test ride.
I bought a Scram 411, LOVE LOVE LOVE it. Very placid, mellow, comfortable, easy, enjoyable, strong, docile, etc. I LOVE it.
It is Not a fast bike, it was Not designed to be.
PLEASE test ride BOTH.
Regards.
This most excellent review showed 1k likes before I liked it, then it changed to 1.1k. It must have had 1099 likes, then mine made it 1.1k. How cool is that? It's like watching the miles on your bike change from 9999 to 100000.
And there you have it.... "Simple, Honest, To the point, To the rider".... How come for so many this ease of speak is so difficult. You make it look so pure Nathan. Which it is and should be. But it seems your special talent. Have you ever written a book? If so I would like to buy it. If not, consider it. I would buy it .
He has a book out.
@@mikehurley5052 thanks Mike,,, just found it on Amazon,,, looks like a couple of'em.... I will be ordering them. Finding myself very much in line with his philosophy of motorcycling.
Wow what a brilliant review, everything you say makes so much sense. Maybe this engine will be more at home in a road going 450 Hunter, sounds as if RE will need to find another platform for it to make better use of it. I have sat on the 450 Himalayan and it does feel very top heavy and like you say lifting it off the side stand you definitely feel all it's weight. I think RE have really missed the target with this bike, as you said most people just wanted a little bit more power. Keep the air cooled engine but just get the power up to around 30 plus bhp. I guess most people will look at the old 411 and just fit better air flow and exhaust system and maybe a performance cam from TEC and make a better bike from the old one than RE have made of the new one.
No one can deny progress.
I have to say feel the same I love my 411 far from perfect but its a great bike. When I rode the 450 it felt that I had to push the bike more and that is not really my riding these days. I would have thought a 650 would have been ideal. If I want to do Motorways miles then I can jump on my old pan I recently brought.
Yes, I never thought I'd say it but a 650 Super Himalayan would have ticked the right boxes. Strong smooth power. More relaxed. Ok on gravel track and good on the motorway. It was the bike a lot of people were asking for.
@@nathanthepostman They already had a cast iron product and to make such a change seems odd to me
Hello again Nathan.
Just noticed Givi and Kappa now have some bits and pieces ready for the 400 Triumphs.
Thanks David. Will have a look
I found, when I test ride/reviewed the bike, it lacks character.
I own a 411 Himalayan, and totally agree with you, this isn't what we were hoping for! 🥺
It was exactly was I was hoping for , I loved the 411 but the 450 is just better for me in every way so good job to the RE team
Thank you, your opinion is the same like mine. Have the 411 from 7/21, my dealer had the 450. Nice but not mine. See you.
I watch a lot of bike reviewers and Nathan is the best. Concise, honest and always spots every little detail. It does seem manufacturers are pushing things the average rider, the majority or riders, do not want or need. I don't get to test bikes but as I say I see many reviews from many different types of reviewer. I also see the comments and I think motorcycling still has a lot of toxic masculinity. This minority are at all levels in biking including in the IAM, ROSPA, Police rider programmes - they all talk about making progress, pushing on... they say riders are not up to the task if they aren't making every overtake ASAP. It's nonsense. Motorcycling should be fun, it should be for stress releif, there is no place on our poor quality overpopulated roads for riding like a racer everywhere. Sadly the few that want that because they think it makes them seem hard are very vocal and they get the attention of the industry. They want edgy bikes, they don't want safety features as they think it makes them look weak or like they lack skill... they are holding us all back. It's frustrating. Thankfully respectable folk like Nathan are calling the manufacturers. Otherwise we just end up paying more for stuff that doesn't fully suit most of us. The majority end up comprimising for the few.
Thanks Mr brown. Don't get me started on the road captains obsession with making progress. Fine for chasing bad guys. But an awful approach imo to teach the average rider just wanting to enjoy their riding.
The long stroke engine was the magic sauce of the 411 Himmy. This one has sold it soul and ended up in the middle of a bunch of average beginner bikes.
Thoughtful, incisive and not swayed by the need to praise every bike you ride (and own) unlike most of the UK bike journos.
I've had a 411 for four years now and tried the 452 a couple of weeks ago and pretty much agree with everything Nathan says, with the caveat that I only spent 2 hours on it.
Im fortunate in that although my 60th will come knocking this year, im 6ft and still plenty strong enough to manhandle most bikes about (ive got eight including a Desert X and a Griso) but its the himmy i choose when exploring, green laning or just bimbling and ill be keeping my (or another if mine wears out 😂) himmy 411 probably for as long as i can ride as its a superb travel, do it all, nice and easy, characterful thing.
I may or may not gor for a 452 once the early adopters have finished with them but am pretty sure there will be a 411 in my garage for the rest of my riding days.
I'm 5'4" and nearly couldn't get mine off the side stand. Easier to grab the tank guard. Fun to ride for my needs though (quick blast round the country roads)
I have done more than 30,000 miles on my 411 from new toured 16 countries. I also have a tenere 700 to scratch the itch. Iv tested the 450 himi..like you I wanted to love it but I dont..its hard to put a finger on it but it feels like just another bike. I will keep my old friend the 411 till it dies.
I think you've summed it up well there, it's just another bike
I think you're wrong about the bike. It can ride slowly using clutch at walking pace, or 6hpm from idle. Weight off the side stand is a function of a full tank, it feels a lot lighter half full. This in many ways similar to my XT 660, tank on top. You can get it off the side stand by using your hips from a standing position, same as if you were pushing the bike around. Then get on. Its suspension is far better than the old one, brakes and handling too. It could be geared and fuelled better for low down pull, see Triumph 400 X. That has an excellent drive from low and smooth pick up, it will pull at walking pace from idle or even up a slight incline. It looks like a step up in build quality over the old, more similar to a Suzuki V-Strom or NX500 in quality.
I think I'm right about the bike for the example you give. If the new Himalayan feels similar to your XT 660 then it's too heavy for the typical Himalayan rider who wouldn't have bought a 660 for it being too heavy. They bought the 411 instead. Totally agree about the low speed refinement. Once moving it's perfect.
13:21 "We just wanted a 411 with a bit more power". If you put your ear to the ground and read through the Indian auto websites (Zigwheels Upcoming Royal Enfield Bikes), there will be an upcoming Scram 440 at some point within the year, same air/oil cooled engine as the 411 but with a larger bore, and will replace the scram 411. By no means is the Scram equivalent to the Himalayan, but it is very similar and for most people who do mostly road riding it's probably the better choice. It should have an extra 4hp, taking it to 28bhp. With some other mods you could probably get it over 30bhp.
It's also worth noting the 477cc big bore kit for the 411 engine, which with other mods adds 10hp, (30 rear wheel hp giving an extra 50% compared to 20 rear wheel hp on the 411). There is even a 500cc big bore kit but this requires increasing the bore in the engine casing by 2mm, taking it up to 38bhp.
According to the Zigwheels page, there is a Himalayan 650 in the works, supposedly ready for June next year.
Interesting. Thanks bord. Will keep an eye out for that.
Having just watched a couple of reviews on CFmotos 450MT, I’ll be interested to hear what your thoughts will be from you on said bike when you get your hands on one.
A second hand v strom is a far better prospect than this except off road. I think voge/cf Moto etc are far better. Shame they didn’t stick with 411 air cooled but 50 bhp. Love your honesty is so fresh
Yes, if it was me buying I'd spend £4 on the Voge rather than £6k on the 450 Himalayan.
Going by other reports, the higher touring screen should help with motorway touring speeds. I’ll be interested to test drive and keep your review in mind. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it helps in buying decisions or at least whether to consider taking a test ride. So far this is the only negative review I’ve seen, perhaps the other reviewers were seduced by media ride review days in the Himalayas or Sardinia
I couldn't possibly say re the last comment but it is surprising that the weight issue didn't get mentioned in any of the launch event videos. But there is a lot going on on those events and they do like to feed you all the good stuff to say. But yes, a touring screen will be on my shopping list. Keen to try.
Great video mate ....every time I watch your videos I always have a mental tussle .....adventure bike or roadbike !.
I do like the more sedate pace of adventure biking ....tough decision.
Interesting. I want to try one but not convinced. the weight likely will be an issue some bikes I struggle with getting off the stand since I did my leg.
From the first ride I took it I felt this, this really seems to be a great time to pick up a cheap 411 tbh.
would you change the front sprocket to 16 tooth? mix things up a bit?
I'd thought of that but I think you'd make it even more fidgety between gears on the slower stuff. Around 20-28mph in town or on rural roads you just can't find the right gear on it. I think raising the gearing may make it worse, but it might improve it. So I might give it a go and see.
Seen the new 450 at the NEC and ordered one from my local dealer ......test rode one two weeks ago and was so disappointed i cancelled the order ! Says it all really 😢 going to keep the Scram 🎉
What didn't you like about it Grumpy?
@nathanthepostman Vibration was the main reason plus pushing it fairly hard to get it to moving. It's not a true Himalayan to me ......just my view 😢 I think your suming up says it all
Hi Nathan just a thought have you ever ridden a 411 Himmy with a one tooth smaller front sprocket I have one and I feel it has made it more fun but still kept that slogging feel I absolutely love my Himmy
Keep up the good work m8 THANKS
I haven't to be honest
Will have to give it a go. Cheers!
Thanks for your review. It's very interesting to hear your thoughts. I am 68, 5 foot 7 and own a 390 Adventure and I have only taken a short testride on a 411. That bike didn't appeal to me at all so I guess I am the "other type of rider". Tried the 450 and found it better than the 390 in many aspects but it is heavy for sure although I didn't have problems to get it off the side stand when turning the handlebar. Even with the saddle in highest position it feeels lower than the 390. However, the lean angle is absolutely crazy for me since I always enter my bikes on the foot pegs because of hip stiffness and replacements. The gearbox on the 450 is way better than on the KTM and so is the powerband even if the low end grunt is not impressing. One thing that immediately struck me was the very low first gear and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this in reviews. I assume it's that low in order to somewhat conceal the not so impressing low end. It's more comfortable than the 390 and not as buzzy either. And to be honest, the electronics on the 390 is overkill for such a small bike and just complicates the riding experience in my opinion. Overall I prefer the 450 but the weight is an issue so we will see if I keep the 390 when I receive my 450. I will extend the side stand for sure!
Thanks for the great input Jan, especially regarding comparisons to your 390. It'll be interesting to hear how you progress with it. Please update us. I also have a few hip problems - not quite to the stage of a replacement - and it's the lean angle that made that difficult for me as well, especially when putting it back on the stand. Hopefully the pad helps. Safe travels
@@nathanthepostman I will try to remember to keep you informed about my experiences when I receive it. It will be a Hanle Black tubeless with delivery estimated in the middle of August. The left not yet replaced hip worries me a bit since it cramps when the knee angle is too steep. Strangely enough it feels about the same as on the 390 with the saddle in highest position despite the greater ground clearance. 1cm lower saddle + 3cm additional ground clearance should make a difference in seating position but it doesn't. It's a tricky task to achieve a good seating position for riders of various length but they seem to have succeeded surprisingly well.
Sat on the 450 yesterday at the local shop and my god yes it's heavy off the stand 😮.......sat on the 450MT straight after and felt feather weight in comparison.......
I returned to riding after a 15-year break, so the 411 spoke to me as a mixture of my old bikes - a compromise between XT250, XT550 Yamahas, BMW 650 GS Funduro, and blue from my Virago 535 - and I wanted lower power and speed to dampen any poor riding decisions. What I didn't like about the F650GS was the cost of premium fuel, and maintenance and that it was top-heavy and allergic to wind. With the 411, I got the comfy seat and position of the GS and the fuel economy of the XT250, although I miss having a smooth motor. I expect the top-heavy Himalayan 450 will be an issue for many, and I wonder how it will go in strong winds - weight distribution is a big deal. If I was returning after 15 years to a 450 Himalayan, I doubt I'd have much fun without the strength, skills and confidence that 10,000km on the 411 has given me.
Good honest thoughts.
Thank you very much for your insights!
What is your experience with the Rhinowalk saddlebags on your Himy? @nathanthepostman
Any Wobbeling or fear it might chafe on the tire?
They were ok. Nothing caught but they did run a bit close to the wheel. Frames would be good.
@@nathanthepostman thanks so much!