I am neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian; I believe they are two opposite extremes and the truth is in the middle. I have thought long and hard about this subject, and I believe I have come up with a pretty good allegory to explain what I believe about the matter. We are all drowning at the bottom of an infinite ocean. God's grace and mercy in showing us the way to Him lift us to the surface of the ocean, where God extends a hand to each person. If a person accepts God's hand, God lifts him out of the raging sea to salvation. But a person may also choose to ignore God's hand, and since I believe God does not force salvation upon anyone, that person is not saved. My problem with extreme Calvinism is that it essentially makes us robots. True love is never forced. God created us to glorify Him, and if we were forced to serve Him, we would not truly love Him, for we would have no choice in the matter. I'm not saying that man saves Himself; God does all of the work, we just have to choose Him and then he promises to save us. Also, God says that he wishes for everyone to come to Him. For that to be the case and it being a fact that not everyone is saved, God must not force Himself upon us, else He would be a liar, which He is not. (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4) My problem with Arminianism is that it gives man the credit for salvation. This is even more biblically inaccurate than Calvinism, for the Bible clearly teaches in multiple passages that man cannot save himself and that it is "by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9) So I fall in the middle, believing that only through God's grace and mercy may we come to know the way of salvation, and once we repent of our sins and accept Him, He will save us. He sends no one to hell; rather, we are all naturally on our way to hell due to being sinners, and when God saves us we are then on our way to heaven. Through God's foreknowledge, He knows exactly who will be saved and who will not be. From what I have studied, this is the most biblically accurate view of salvation. Thank you for reading :)
I don't completely disagree or agree with this. This concept matches that of those chosen to be soldiers for Gideon's army, which makes me concur. However, there's that city of Nineveh that God opted to Save from destruction. They didn't know they needed to be saved and Jonah did not want to tell them. This is sort of where Calvinism comes into play. Sure they chose to be saved once they found out they needed it. However, you cannot deny that God decided they would be saved first.
@@Kharizmah I don't quite get your Gideon reference in this context. With regards to Nineveh, I somewhat agree with you. The one thing I would say to that is that was more of a pattern of consistency of God's personality in that He gives us the opportunity to respond correctly to Him calling us. In Jonah 3:4 Jonah warns them they have 40 days to get right and thankfully they responded correctly. But if they wouldn't have taken heed to the warning they would've been overthrown. So a consequence of the wrong response was laid out. Most of the prophets of the old testament gave a warning, time was given, and the result of the wrong response was told to them. Similar to Pharaoh ignoring God's words via Moses and also ignoring all the plagues. Those were warning shots and Pharaoh hardened his heart. Wrong response. In turn God hardened his heart.
@@nowfaithis9799 To match up with the OPs post everyone in the beginning is part of the hellish battle (that is life). They all have to fight, or do they? At this point God chooses who is really going to be a soldier in the battle. He sets out a series of ground rules to determine who is 100% all in. If the soldier, responds a certain way then they are not chosen. So in the beginning many people chose to fight, but in the end some fell away. That correlates with the parable of the sower and the seeds. Lots of people think they choose Christ but then the birds come along and they fall away. God knows who those are that will not fall away when the trial and tribulations come. He knows who are those who will stay and fight the battle.
Thanks, I do not have a profound knowledge about this topic but i agree with what you say, God saved us by Grace, we have absolutely nothing to work for because Jesus has accomplished everything on the cross for us. Still, to be able to enjoy this free gift fron God, we have to accept Jesus-Christ as our Lord and Saviour, so for me, that's where the "choosing" (i would rather say "welcoming") part comes in, and once we are saved, we can't loose our salvation because we did no work to acquire it, it has been given by God
I see it as a marriage proposal (b/c the church is the bride of Christ.) The man chooses his bride by proposing to her. She chooses him also by accepting the proposal. God chooses us, & we must choose Him.
Some common sense. It's like Calvinists want so badly to believe that God just supernaturally chooses you and you've literally got no say in the matter. How in the world is that a narrow way that leads to life? Seems broad to me.
I was going back and forth on this topic, first siding with the “free will” of man, but the more I read the Scriptures, from OT to NT, the more I began to side with God’s complete sovereignty. With that said, whichever way one leans, it doesn’t impact their salvation. Thanks for a great video!
I’ve always asked this question and I told my friend about it when she was wanting me to follow Christ and she didn’t have the exact answer but she said that God will NEVER turn away from someone who asks him for salvation. And that’s all I needed to hear. It gave me peace
that is true, but when God lets a person ask for salvation, it is his holy spirit working in a person. Isaiah already said it: Isaiah 65: “I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me; I was found by those who did not seek me. To a nation that did not call on my name, I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’ notice the I said part, God came to people, not the other way around. Adam, where are you? not : God where are you?
@@nielsqbc4 Jesus Christ said whoever believes in him will be given eternal life. I believe this offer is to everybody. And what you said is not entirely true. Not everyone who asks for salvation will receive it, that´s why Jesus said BELIEVE not ASK. It´s not just a sentence or prayer you say without meaning. It has to come from the heart. I prayed the sinner´s prayer and I was unsaved for many years because I never received the Holy Spirit. Only God knows your heart and whether you truly believe. God bless.
@@Romans8-9 I had same experience, recited sinner's prayer for years from my lips but not from my heart and God didn't hear me.. but oh, when I called out to Jesus from my heart... I received the Holy Spirit right then and there, thank you Jesus !!
Ok guys, story time. When I was around 6 years old, my dad led my younger brother and I in the sinner’s prayer. However I don’t think I was really saved because I was living in willful sin and actually treated OSAS as a license to sin. About 6 months ago (February 2nd) I made the choice as an adult (I’m 20 now) to answer Christ call. I knew I was living in sin, without a care in the world; my temper was short, my patience little, my tongue full of profanity, my lust uncontrollable, and was angry at God. I was strongly considering dropping out and giving up on college because I had no direction in my life. All of this made worse due to me being on the Autism Spectrum. In other words, I was a complete wreck. However, when I trusted in Christ, MAJOR changes took place in my life. I came to realize just how dead in my sin I was, and I, as well as others, began seeing the fruit of the Holy Spirit within myself. Certain video games I used to play I couldn’t bear to even see on my computer screen anymore; my impatience towards my family disappeared little by little, and I’m now working to repair the relationship between them and I. A desire to spread the good news of the Gospel sprung within me, as well as the desire to go to Church, fellowship with other Christians, and read my Bible; all of which used to be chores for me. Lust and sexual self-gratification decreased, though I still struggle with temptation. If I do sin, it would eat me from the inside out until I confessed it to God. I do have seasons where I feel far from God and crave the joy I receive when I feel close. There are times where I’ll fall and give in to temptation and sin, but the fact that if we humble ourselves and confess our sins He is faithful and will forgive (1 John 1:9) gives me strength to get back up and continue on in my walk with Christ. The fact that these things are happening gives me assurance that the Holy Spirit is working within me, and combining that with the knowledge that God will finish what he started (Philippians 1:6) gives me faith in all of God’s promises and assures me that I am sealed. Whoever happens to read this whole thing (I know it’s long😬), remember that God loves you more than you can possibly imagine, and WANTS a relationship with you! And if you’re truly in Christ, you’ll see growth and change! God Bless❤️🙏🏻
SargeWinsZombies Amen, Thank God. I’m happy that your happy. Truly trusting God comes with an amazing feeling, never mind the blessings as well. I’m striving for that trust more and more each day, and God can change anything overnight too, it’s crazy. God bless youuu ❤️👏🏾
it’s important for all Christians to remember during this debate that our salvation is not based on picking one of these worldly views. So remember to love one another while debating this fun topic
Exactly! Both sides trust in Christ to save them and he does the work. Thank God that the motivation for this secondary doctrine is an issue of *Heterodoxy not Orthodoxy* It's also worth noting, there is already a firm but loving rebuttal on it from Dr. Flowers at *Soteriology101* worth watching. It's called *Is God Sovereign or do we have Free Will? Yes*
Absolutely! If the Holy Spirit wouldn’t have called us, we wouldn’t have believed. The Holy Spirit first softens our heart, in order for us to see Truth! Excellently said! Thank you, for putting this out here for us.
Amen! Jesus says that in John 6, when He says NO ONE can come to Him UNLESS the Father FIRST draws them to Him. God must act first, and soften our heart to receive Christ. Blessings to you.❤
When I get to heaven, I have a feeling I'm not going to care either way. I'll be to busy worshipping God and/or hanging out with those who will also be there.
I am sure in Heaven, first we ought to learn and understand all aspects of God, life and the universe, so all these questions we have here, will be fully understood.
We do have free will but it is corrupted and we can't choose God before He regenerates us. He tells us we are dead in our sins and a dead man must be regenerated before he can make a right decision.
@@heis3112 Does regeneration precede faith in the scripture below? Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. .
@@SpotterVideo If you keep reading in Eph. 2 for context you will see that He makes us alive while we "were dead in our trespasses". As we all know a dead person has no faith until he is regenerated or brought to life which is all God and none of us. We trust after He enables us to through regeneration. Just like we made no contribution to our physical birth we make no contribution in our spiritual birth. I think what God means by dead is dead. I'm sure you will rejoice with me in knowing that God gets 100% of the credit and glory for our salvation and we get none. For further context read the preceding verses in Eph. 1 and you will see it is only those who were "predestined for adoption" before the foundation of the world. How did He choose "according to the good pleasure of His will". Eph. 2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
@@heis3112 , I'm always amazed that people want to use Eph. 2 to say that we were so dead in sin that we couldn't do anything but never bother to explain how a dead person with a corpselike deadness is able to "walk" (Eph. 2:2). Both are an analogy and I understand that people want to stretch the analogy to the limit, but the walking dead are zombies, not corpses.
This is one of many Bible Mysteries... for example... "You are invited to my place for a party" said The speaker to the congregation.... How many people did the speaker invite to the party??? Some would say everyone... Other people will say "just me".... Both answers are wrong and correct at the same time... But don't get caught up on the invite!!! Just serve GOD, and make it to the party....
But if that speaker is Jesus then only those who are His sheep know and understand and obey His voice. They go to the party because they believed. When you believe you obey. The others will argue and not believe in the invitation but that was on them to reject the invite. All are welcome but not all will come. If the speaker didn’t want everyone to come and only wanted a select few to know then he would only speak to the few that he wants to come, he would also only invite those few too. But he announces the invitation so that everyone may hear it but only those that have ears to hear understand the invite.
"this is one of those things that aren't going to make sense to our finite minds" perfectly said. I think that a halfway medium between Calvinism and arminianism is where it's at. I think both concepts put God in a box and limit his authority and power. I believe that God chooses us, but I don't think he chooses others to hell. I don't think God sees into the future as arminianism would suggest but I think as he is timeless, he already knows. But I think he still offers salvation to all. He's a just God, so why wouldn't he offer it to all? I think arminianism leans more towards a works based salvation but Calvinism leans more towards a hopeless salvation. And James chapter 2 says "faith without works, is dead." In other words, our works, complete our faith in Christ. If you have faith in what Jesus did, but don't act upon it, then what faith is that? That's not faith, that's just saying that you believe. For example, I can say I have faith that my car will drive, but if I don't put gas in it, it isn't going to run. I'm not saying that what Jesus did can't work without our belief, I'm just saying that you can't have true faith in something unless you actually work towards that belief. Living your life towards that belief (being kind, helping people who are less fortunate etc, ) shows that you believe and have faith, whereas just saying you have faith does justice to nobody. Not that our works gives us salvation, not at all. Rather, Our faith is supposed to bring glory to God via our works. To be a light to show to the world that they might see who God really is and we (Christians) are his representatives on earth. Think about this. 2 people come to you and offer you a vacation. The first guy tells you that he thinks it's a nice place to stay and that's it. The 2nd guy shows you how nice it is. He offers pictures, maybe souvenirs he brought back and you feel almost like you have been there yourself. Which one would you be more likely to go with? Thus, how Christians should be. Not only tell you about how great God is based on our personal experience, but show them how great he is.
So true…so let’s all realize that none of these modern…anti Jewish…anti Zion …idiots have anything of worth And focus on the eternal truths taught by the Ancient of Days
works is the result of your Faith, otherwise you played a part in your salvation and you would share the glory with Christ. The only part you play in your salvation is that of being in the receiving end and 100% of the Glory is God's
@@carrion826 absolutely…no own could AFFORD one drop of Christ’s blood…but let’s be honest…the vast majority DO NOT follow the Savior in this wicked life…so a faith that doesn’t work for the Master…check out Revelation…our belief is meaningless our obedience is everything…we always forget…satan and demons “believe” much more than any churchgoer…what they don’t do is submit to Christs Rule
@The Light Of Christ I totally agree….both are weird…and that conquest over sin is NEVER OURS….I sin less…and satans attacks are “stunted” more….simply by my proximity…to the Roaring Lion of Judah….as it turns out…whenever I’m IN WORSHIP MODE….satan has no footing…God…INHABITS….the praise of His people
You said that God is a just God, and why would he not offer salvation to all? Please let me answer that because a lot of people miss this who is in the church today. Before the beginning of time here on Earth God already had a plan, that's why God lifted up Lucifer in heaven with his own holiness until iniquity was found in him THEN HE WAS CAST DOWN TO THE GROUND WHICH WEAKENED THE NATIONS. ISAIAH 14:12 Why did God not throw Satan directly into hell? Because he is being used for God's glory here on Earth making it a battlefield as we put on the whole armor of God Ephesians 6:10 17 There are five crowns to earn
My uncle once told me as I struggled with things like this, he said sweat these things once you make it to Heaven. And it helped me clear a path of debris on my road. John 3:16 is the key.
It is unbiblical and foolish to choose one verse out of God's word and scrap the rest, or disregard it, or not endeavor to understand it. You won't find any support for that in scripture. God's love is _one_ of his many attributes, not his _only_ attribute. Among his attributes are wrath, justice, purity, and righteousness. To pretend love is all that matters is to pretend God is less than who he says he is.
Confusing as it was in Leviticus 25:44, Numbers 31:17 or Exodus 21:20, at times... Also, if purity was such a major concern, then I am still confused why Satan was in heaven long enough to sway so many angels? Who would not seem to have cause to lack for many things there?
@@matthewdyer2926 Amen! 2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV) 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth
I believe it’s somewhere in the middle, but I also believe it’s something we as man will never be able to fully realize here on earth, and I’m excited to ask the Father this one day.
This was pretty good. I’ve been studying Calvinism for the past couple of months VERY SLOWLY haha it’s a lot to dissect. One of the beautiful things about it I think is that despite my how much of a sinner I was toward a Holy and Righteous God, He displayed such a love toward me He chose to save me when I deserved His wrath. That blows my mind and I can’t help but to praise Him for it!
I encourage you to keep studying it! Read through the Canons of Dort, and read the proof texts :) also other options are from RC Sproul. He has a book called Chosen by God, or if you have the ligonier ministries app, under "teaching series" is about 10 short lectures on predestination. It can be heavy going, but it's worth it. Also find a trusted brother who understands it well to help if you need. The doctrine of election is Biblical, and beautifully assuring!
@@jesseschulz214 Please, remember to study your Bible.Get a believer who will help you dissect those proof texts as God did not choose 'some' for election. He chose people for service.
Thank you so much, Allen. My son definitely leans towards Calvinism and has charged me with learning more about this. And though I’m still learning about this (I have a bit of an opinion so far, but not ready to decide fully yet), your presentation has made the most sense to me so far.
I'm surprised to find out that I lean more towards Calvinism. I've been walking with God for 62 years. I never wanted to get in the argument between the two. Cause in my opinion, where there is disagreement over scripture, you will find the enemy much involved. Pick a side, and you have Christians on one side or the other calling you names. Not God-like at all. My Father believed, OSAS, my mother didn't. She was afraid she could lose her salvation. I attended a Free-will Baptist Church, like they did, till I became a little more charismatic than they liked. I started speaking in tongues, lol. I decided to believe the scriptures for myself. I am securely held in the hands of Jesus, like He said, and He will not lose me, amen!!!! The Holy Spirit was given to us to lead us into ALL truth. I suggest you, and your son, get to know Him well, and follow Him. Hear Him. Listen for Him to speak, or, show you things to come. Believe what the Bible says about Him, too. He speaks to you what you need to hear, and in various ways. Through scripture mainly. But, to alert you to danger, He will speak, and you will think you heard Him with your ears, lol. Seek His guidance in all things, He will show you where, and how, to walk by your spirit man in sync with Him. The gifts of the Holy spirit have not stopped flowing, or, working. It's how He teaches us to walk by our spirit man. Listen with your heart to what the Spirit of God is saying. We are blessed with the Living presence of God, Halelujah!!!! Enjoy Him!!!! "Ask, and it will be given. Seek, and you will find, Knock, and the door will be opened." God's Words only works when we believe them. We are blessed!!!! .........With all my love, Sandy
Very clear explanation. I'm more of a Calvinist and I believe God has the total hold of my life and He has the best plan for me, giving me grace and faith to run the race
This is one of those things that many seem to just get really upset about. I’m just over 16 and a half, but like seven months ago I first heard about Reformed Theology and some of the beliefs associated with it and got frustrated. I tried looking up verses I could use to refute people who identify as Calvinists or Reformed. That went on for like a month. Over time, I learned that even though I may disagree with them on some things, that doesn’t mean I should get really mad at them and try to refute all of their beliefs. If any of you are sitting there, being frustrated at the beliefs associated with Calvinism/Reformed theology, just stop and try to calm down. I’d recommend listening to a couple sermons from people who are considered to be Reformed or whatever, so that you could better understand where they are coming from. Thank you for taking your time to read this.
@Sir Isaac Newton You demonstrate a severe lack of biblical literacy my friend. No matter if you are calvinist or arminian, everyone agrees that regeneration-or as you put it “eyes to see”-is a biblical concept. The debate is whether or not this takes place before or after faith. Is it a result of faith, or does faith result from it. Regeneration is described in the Bible as God taking out your heart of stone and giving you a heart of flesh. Through your new heart and new desires you are given the gift of repentance-which means to turn away-and you now desire to do good in the eyes of God; and please Him. The Holy Spirit, the third person in the Trinity, indwells you and over-time conforms you to the image of Christ in a process called sanctification. Again, all of that is indisputable, arminians and calvinists alike agree with that. The calvinist differs in saying that regeneration precedes faith as prior to regeneration human beings are incapable of having true faith due to their hardened hearts and state of total depravity. Where the “eyes to see” analogy is represented in the Bible is when Paul received the Holy Spirit and was literally unblinded. Actual scale-like objects fell from his eyes illustrating the blindness of Paul prior to God intervening to regenerate him. Paul’s salvation in the calvinist view is a picture of Christian salvation as a whole; people are walking around blind, self-righteous, & as Paul puts it; dead in their sin. It isn’t until God Himself intervenes and regenerates them-which can be illustrated by an unblinding, or a raising up of a lifeless corpse-that they finally see or come stumbling out of the pit like lazarus. Straw manning the calvinist position like you did only demonstrates ignorance, as any biblically literate person know that God didn’t create humans blind in sin. Humans are “dead in sin” as Paul says, because of the rebellion of Adam. To claim “God is mean” for damning murderous, lying, thieving, blaspheming creatures from dust; is beyond foolish and practically anti-Christ. Don’t be so quick to judge others when you very obviously aren’t aware of what’s being debated.
@Sir Isaac Newton What you are saying is ridiculous and it’s clear this is a waste of time. Are you insinuating that you are sinless, or are you insinuating that I’m saying that I’m sinless? Either way it’s a laughable statement. God’s Word says that any man who claims he is without sin is a liar in 1 John 1:8. In John 6:44 Jesus says “no one can come to me unless the father draws him” and before you try saying that God draws everyone, go ahead and read the second half of that verse which says “and I will raise him up on the last day” Jesus is clearly saying that not a single person is able to come to Him unless God first draws that person and whoever God draws is going to be raised up on the last day. Therefore God cannot be drawing everyone unless you believe in universalism; which is age-old heresy. Implying that I hated God and following up with your own good works demonstrates your pride. That’s exactly what the calvinist position is against; believing that you are special, that you are somehow wise enough or kind enough or honorable enough and that’s why God picked you. The Apostle Paul teaches in Romans 3:10-12 that “no man does good, no not one…all have turned away, together they have become worthless”. If I just compare what you say to the Apostle Paul it’s clear that you have a very man-centered worldview whereas calvinism is just the God-centered interpretation of biblical text. If you want to talk about “following the crowd” you should realize that not knowing what you really believe and being ignorant of the historical argument in either direction, most certainly would reflect the majority of professing Christians. Calvinism is by every metric the minority position-id argue because it’s actually biblical-and calvinism has been the punching bag of the modern evangelical church for decades; so I’m not “following the crowd”, brother, you are. I don’t even think you’re following what I’m saying at all based on your response though. Lastly, I didn’t call you an “Armenian” nor did I call you an arminian, I was just pointing out that the two main positions agree on regeneration…because it’s in the Bible.
@Sir Isaac Newton You have resulted to proof-texting which shows you have no desire to interact with anything I said, meaningfully. If your response to a Scripture is to put it up against other Scriptures then it’s clear you think very little of God’s Word. As a fellow Christian; brother, this is not how you go about understanding God’s word, that is a tit-for-tat argument for the sake of arguing. Don’t believe me? Go watch any scholarly debate on the doctrines of calvinism, you won’t see any serious individuals engaging in that juvenile nonsense. When one person gives an argument in Scripture, his opponent will actually interact and provide his explanation for the same Scripture. FYI if you had ever interacted with calvinism meaningfully in your life, you’d know the calvinist response to that argument; because it’s a very novice question that you’re proposing. Again, huge waste of time so I’ll end it here.
@@tjs.5044 I have been trying to get a fix on whether Calvinism or Armenian. I would like you to know you gave a very succinct reply to @Newton. I have listened to many preachers and teachers on this matter. What I couldn't understand was why he would send someone to hell. I was getting hung up on that issue. As you pointed out, all men are going to hell. God will grace whom he wishes or have compassion on whom he will (I know I didn't get the verse right). Man, on his own, can't break away from sin. It is through the grace of God that whomever is saved is saved. So, God isn't sending anyone to hell who isn't going there anyway. Thank you TSJ. I can now spend my time on bearing more fruit.
I praise God that we don’t have to make a decision on this issue in order to be saved, we don’t even have to think about it, but it is interesting to discuss and debate.
Breanna T Because Jesus comes to knock our door and stand in front of our heart, but we have the choice of opening the door or not (and He blesses everyone that decides to do so). You do have a point though: salvation is not earned; salvation is a gift from God Father. Blessings, and don't forget to consult with the Holy Spirit if you have more questions; it always works 🙌🏼
You are so right on Allen! You are amazing at breaking it down. Also it was cool because I'd have to say I definitely lean more towards Calvinism but yes ultimately we simply will never, at least in this body know for sure. Faith is such a gift and it's just so amazing to hear you and others speak about the Lord and know that we know He is alive and real and our Father!! God Bless you all!!!
I don't believe that we can never know. The Bible is pretty specific that Jesus died for the whole world (every man) and not just SOME. Also, the Bible says that God overlooked sin, but since Jesus' death and resurrection God commands ALL men EVERYWHERE to repent and believe. Calvinism is definitely a false Gospel. Calvinism builds a false gospel on doctrine but the Word tells us that we can only build on the foundation that is the Gospel. Also, why does 1 Timothy 2: 1-5 tell us to pray for all men because God desires that all men come to the knowledge of the truth? Calvinism excludes praying for the salvation of some. We are not supposed to consider anyone a brother or sister in Christ who teaches a false gospel because they are lost
So, what about those of us who believe and profess and study the Bible but do not feel a part of the "elect" orchosen ones. Does that mean that God doesn't want us and we will go to hell? Since we were created to go there, there is nothing we can do about it?
John 4:24 “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” But we do need the spirit to worship :p Born again christian here
@@LeonardoDeValen you are born again because God gave you a new spirit in Christ which is life .and hence we worship God in spirit and truth. ..we do not Born again ourselve but it's God who gave us new spirit which is born of God
@HillDueceua not because you ask , it has nothing to do with you at all. God simply chose to whomever it will be given. He gave the truth to whoever he elects. .. because we receive grace not because we believe but it is freely given either you have faith or not... Having faith makes you understand/acknowledge that you are children of God. Having understood the truth , you get confirm that you are now saved in Christ. You are freed . You are no longer a sinner .God will no longer condenmed you. Your unrighteous ways are made righteous. Blameless before God .. God is the one who does the work. You simply do nothing , just believe him in all ways you do. You are just a vessel.. God is the potter and you are the clay.. He will design you according to his will , not yours. . So be thankful to God that now you know the truth ... Bible is the word and the truth of God... You will know more if you read it ... But be warn! since many Christian communities / churches teaches works rather grace. And I'm sure many have been brain washed by the lies of religion and men's teachings ... You can only rely Bible. Men are a natural liar.
@@thebeatagp ... Again, you need to provide a historical perspective whenever you discuss this subject and explain that the heresy of Arminianism did not evolve until about 1500 years AFTER the Bible was finished - and it was NOT the traditional teaching of the early church or of Jesus or of the Apostles. ------------ You also need to emphasis that Arminianism contradicts MANY different Scriptures - which is why it was declared heresy when first promoted - while sovereign Grace has NO contradictions in the Bible... only misunderstandings based on CONTEXT. Which can usually be understood by realizing that the church consists of many unsaved "tares/goats" and relatively few saved "wheat/sheep/saints"... so many passages are ONLY talking about the saints (brothers) and not the unsaved "tares". Context means everything child. ------------------
Both make points I agree and disagree with. My problem with Calvinism is that I can't understand if it's God's will that all be saved and come to know Him (1Timothy 2:4) then why would God only choose some and not save the rest? . He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. (2 Peter 3:9) If God wants ALL to have eternal life in heaven then why aren't we all forced to be saved and believe? Plus the Bible tells us that God is a fair God. It doesn't sound like a fair God if He's not giving us the chance to come to Him. On the other hand the problem I have with arminanism is that t don't believe you can lose your salvation once you're saved because "He will never leave or forsake you" Heb 13:5. At the end of the day I just trust Jesus and His Word cause I learned no matter what that we will always have questions and that's ok.
My opinion on your point about Calvinism is this. Yes. God wants all to be saved. And He does come into everyone's lives to attempt to save them. But we do have free will. So basically, God knows our hearts, and He knows if we will follow His will or not. So my opinion is that, it's not that God doesn't want all of us in heaven. He just knows our true hearts and what we will ultimately choose in our free will. And I totally agree with you on your second point. Once saved always saved. Because if you are truly saved, I don't see how you can go back to life without God. Once you experience His love and grace, to me, it's impossible to go back to that old life.
And to add to my second point. Jesus died for all, so we could all be forgiven. Once you accept that Jesus is Lord and He died for us. You're saved. We all still stumble and sin and get off track. If we lost salvation everytime we stumbled, we'd be in trouble. Instead of losing our salvation. God grows us even more mature in our walk through our mistakes and sins. So it's actually the opposite.
Exactly what I believe. It doesn't make sense to me that we don't have free will. I think it's more than just a Calvinism or arminanism belief. God's love is beyond our understanding and His love is perfect and eternal life is a gift that WE have to accept. I just don't believe that all of us are forced to love God. But regardless of what who believes on this subject the important thing is that Jesus is the way to salvation and that's what we are really supposed to believe.
I do agree with you John. Calvinism makes no sense. I think God does a lot of work outside of our control and helps us when we are thinking incorrectly. So, once a Child of God, I think we have free will but limited somewhat because God will help us. In other words, God knows better than we do about certain decisions. Another scripture to point this out is if you obey my commands, I will deliver you out of that day of temptation. So, that reduces free will somewhat because of ignorance, we will get tempted. Just my thoughts.
Thank you for the comparison between Calvinism and Arminianism. It was presented in a very clear way. I especially love the conclusion…there are things we will never (until the end of times) understand. Thank goodness for faith.
THANK YOU for going over this very important topic. I appreciate your teaching ministry. Since you did ask your audience what we think, I will briefly share. With respects to both points of view, I truly believe that when we read and study the Scriptures, that for a person to come to a place of conviction and accept Christ as Savior and become Born Again, the Scriptures teach that it requires the work of the Holy Spirit / the work of God and the willingness of a person to surrender to that truth. I also believe that the Scriptures teach that God's heart and mind towards mankind is that all would come to repentance and receive His grace and gifts and that God loves mankind so much and wants people to come into the true knowledge of who He is, that He made Himself more known to the world through sending His one and only son into our world. Pastor Charles Butindaro
"At the heart of the controversies between Calvinism and Arminianism is the emphasis on the sovereignty of God by the Calvinists and on the sovereignty (free will) of man - or human responsibility - by the Arminians. Calvinism emphasizes that God is in total control of everything and that nothing can happen that He does not plan and direct, including man’s salvation. Arminianism teaches that man has free will and that God will never interrupt or take that free will away, and that God has obligated Himself to respect the free moral agency and capacity of free choice with which He created us. Both doctrinal positions are reasonable and both have extensive Scriptures to back them up. Both are, in our opinion, both partially right and partially overextended. As Philip Schaff has put it, "Calvinism emphasized divine sovereignty and free grace; Arminianism emphasized human responsibility. The one restricts the saving grace to the elect; the other extends it to all men on the condition of faith. Both are right in what they assert; both are wrong in what they deny. If one important truth is pressed to the exclusion of another truth of equal importance, it becomes an error, and loses its hold upon the conscience. The Bible gives us a theology which is more human than Calvinism and more divine that Arminianism, and more Christian than either of them." Certainly, the Bible does teach that God is sovereign, and that believers are predestined and elected by God to spend eternity with Him. Nowhere, however, does the Bible ever associate election with damnation. Conversely, the Scriptures teach that God elects for salvation, but that unbelievers are in hell by their own choice. Every passage of the Bible that deals with election deals with it in the context of salvation, not damnation. No one is elect for hell. The only support for such a view is human logic, not Biblical revelation (which John Calvin did teach). The concept of total depravity is consistent with Scripture, but the doctrine of limited atonement, that Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, is clearly contrary to Biblical teaching. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus died for everyone’s sins and that everyone is able to be saved if they will repent and turn to Christ. Limited atonement is a non-Biblical doctrine. This classic debate, we believe, can only be resolved by recognizing that God is outside our domain of time. The great insight of modern physics is the discovery that time is a physical property. Since God is not bound by the restrictions of our physical existence, He is not someone who has "lots of time," but rather One who is outside our domain of time altogether. While we have complete freedom of choice - within our dimensionality of time - He is outside of that domain and He alone knows the end from the beginning. Thus, it is a courtship between two sovereignties. Election and predestination are Biblical doctrines. God knows everything and therefore He cannot be surprised by anything. He is beyond the constraints of mass, acceleration and gravity, therefore He is outside time. He knows, and has known from “eternity past,” who will exercise their free will to accept Him and who will reject Him. The former are “the elect” and the latter are the “non-elect.” Everyone who is not saved will have only himself to blame: God will not send anyone to hell, but many people will choose to go there by exercising their free will to reject Christ. On the other hand, no one who is saved will be able to take any of the credit. Our salvation is entirely God’s work, and is based completely on the finished work of the Cross. We were dead in trespasses and sins, destined for hell, when God in His grace drew us to Himself, convinced us of our sin and our need for a Savior, and gave us the authority to call Jesus Lord. Is this grace, this wooing, this courtship, irresistible? No, we have free will and we can (and do) resist, even to the damnation of our souls, but God does everything short of making us automata (preprogrammed puppets) to draw us into His forever family." -Chuck Missler
You can't have two sovereigns. Where does the bible say you have free will? Nowhere. Where does the bible say man is sovereign? Nowhere. Where does the bible say God is Sovereign? All over the place! I believe what it says, not what it doesn't.
@@stevenknapp2850 So it doesn't say it but you are just going to lie? Ok. Is that your usual method? Not very Christian is it? What next? Will you prove I have a white cat by proving I have a cat? Yes, man has a will, man does not have a free will. I have a cat, it is not a white cat. Proving I have a cat doesn't prove it is white.
Why would we ever "choose" God? Man is so depraved and in sin.. we are not capable of choosing God. I praise God that He chose me despite my sin. What unfathomable grace.
And yet salvation is only offered to those that choose to believe. Christ died so that those in the world to beleive in him and have the opportunity to believe in him. It would be stupid for him to offer such a blessing to all, SAY that it is for all to hear and receive/reject, only to cross his fingers behind his back and say "just kidding this is only for the cool kids forget everyone else".
@@reformedcatholic457 Not necessarily. Christ provided the only means to salvation, and the voice of the Holy Spirit is audible to those who wish to receive him. However, we still must choose who we will serve. Whether that be life or death, truth or a lie. That is the gift and burden each of us have been introduced to with Christ. That is why we must preach the gospel. To let others know they have the choice to be free from sin through Christ. Salvation is not earned or created by my power. If it were, the gospel would be a lie. However, I must have a role in this salvation, to accept the gift I have been given. God cannot foist it on me, nor can I be involved in it without knowing. It must be absolute on both ends. I must seek to know God as he has sought to know each and every one of us.
@@jazzb3371 But God can't save you without you, so salvation is a cooperation of both man and God. Here is a question for you, what do you do with the text that states Paul was God's chosen instrument or vessel in Acts 9:15?
@@reformedcatholic457 Thats what I'm saying. Though God chooses us, we must be receptive to his choosing. Those who he foreknew are the ones he knew would already choose him. Because remember, it is God's will that all be saved, and that all be provided with the opportunity. So those those who are picked are not randomly selected for no reason, but that they would eventually come to him.
Wonderful video, you are a huge blessing brother, you keep everything in line with scriptural support throughout the video and still leave it to the viewer to make there own decision. Thank you!
Come on people this one is easy. It's both. God is Sovereign and he chooses me and it's a free gift that all I have to do is reach out and take it. Elements of both. Is like how can Jesus be God and man at the same time. He's both. Not 50% man, 50% God... but 100% man and 100% God. God is Sovereign God did choose me. But he desires the entire human race to be saved not just an elect few. Of course he knows the future and he knows who he chose. Both... keyword both.
Easy topic anyone who does not agree with God YHVH that they are totally depraved cannot be forgiven and redeemed. You being stupid and cowardly to not pick a side is irrelevant.
Well said! I fall somewhere between because the Bible does teach elements of both. Anytime humans try to reason out or try to tie up everything into a nice little bow, they fall woefully short. God doesn't fit into a box, and thank goodness for that!!
Both views contradict each other so logically they cannot both be true or have some truth from both. Also what do you mean by putting God in a box? We can know things about God based on what he has revealed to us in scripture.
@@drishtilakhani4842 I agree that we can't FULLY comprehend God but that doesn't mean that we can't understand and clearly know certain things about God. Not everything but some things we CAN know and understand, the things that he has revealed to us about himself through the scriptures. While on this earth we aren't called to FULLY and perfect understand everything but we can certainly understand certain things to a point where we don't just give up and say "it's just a mystery" or "no one really knows" or "the answer is both, they are both true," etc.
In the beginning of the video, you urged us all to think about this issue according to what the Bible actually says, not what we think is logical or what we feel. That, my friend, is why I trust your teaching so much. You teach the Scriptures. This channel is a literal answer to years of my prayers for practical, sound teaching. I’m so grateful to God!
He is Born Again for sure. I'm NOT a calvinist, but God choose us, not we Him! The Bible is FULL of verses about the Sovereignity of the Lord, He is OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENT, OMNIPOTENT and He is my Savior - Yeshua Christ, Not alah or krishna or other "gods"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God bless you Continually Sis!
@@vijdamvsichko9077 I'm trying to seek God and figure out what he wants me to do so that I may be with him, because I have experienced a lot of confusion with religions and expressed some doubts on whether or not this is something God would even want to help me with, as you can probably see in my past comment. I don't know, my spiritual life is a work in progress right now, but I've had some tell me that this concern shows that I am one of the elect, but I don't know. Also, does the elect thing mean that God chooses to send people to hell and also chooses to not like some? Are there some who desire truth and don't get it because they're not one of the elect? Also, are there some born again Christians not going to heaven because they are not of the elect? Why did Eve choose to sin if there is no free will, the downfall of humanity was planned by God? I'm sorry if I seem harsh but these are genuine questions of mine and I hope you see this. Nonetheless, thank you for your original response.
@@Lemon-sc2yq Do you believe that JESUS is the CHRIST? Do you believe that He is the Son of God? Who is JESUS? A/ Angel B/ Human C / God the LORD Shalom.
But it is good to know God, all by himself brought you, that we might give him ALL THE GLORY. There certainly is a reason why he gave us the scriptures, and told us so much as to why and how we are saved. It certainly appears everywhere in the scriptures that God dies indeed care about it.
@@timothydodenhoff1068 The important thing is that one is saved by believing on Christ's Finished Work. We are to preach the Gospel persuasively as if man was capable of coming to Christ of their own freewill but when they do come, we know it was God actually making them willing. Salvation is of the Lord from start to finish, all of Grace, all of Christ and all received by faith alone. It is possible for one to know about and affirm the doctrines of Grace without having the Grace of the doctrines. Better to be the other way round of course but best that we have both.
You should be living in “fear and trembling” as described somewhere in the bible but I can’t remember where. Of course, when you are know you’re chosen, you’ll naturally be much more peaceful
'...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling' (Philippians 2:12, NKJV). Note that it's a working out from a position of having already been saved, not a working for. The only way we know we are chosen is to rely on Christ's death, burial and resurrection on our behalf and the Spirit will bear witness to us that we have peace with God having been justified by faith and taking God at His Word. A great and wonderful position to be in. Much blessing to you.
Yes and if I said “ whosoever runs a marathon will be tired” that doesn’t mean everyone will run a marathon does it. If you have the ability to believe in God (Given by God). Scripture says it’s impossible to chose God and call on his name without God making you John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
@@andrewdescant4996 Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In Is this verse obvious or not
Just prior to my 17th birthday God plucked me out of darkness. I was not seeking Him. I was not responding to scripture or someone's teaching. God simply drew me to Himself and with the help of a believer I bowed my knee and trusted Jesus as my Savior. It was as if God was doing everything and I had very little if anything to do with it. Although I did not see lights or hear a voice it was similar to the conversion of Paul in that one moment I was completely lost in darkness and the next moment I was literally a new creation. I was completely changed and have never looked back since as I continue to seek to know and serve my King. Early on when I would share my testimony someone would say, "that sounds like Calvinism." I had no idea what that was but as I grew in my knowledge of the Bible it confirmed that I was indeed chosen and by God's grace alone He gave me the faith to believe. On my own I would have never turned to God as I was as lost as a human can be. Thank you Lord for choosing me and doing for me what I could not do on my own. I'm forever grateful!
I think Martin Luther provided a key to this subject in his weighty book, "The Bondage of the Will." We have a will. It is a real will. We make real decisions. But our will is in bondage to sin. We are lost and helpless, dead in our trespasses and sins. This is true of every human being. Jesus said it: " "No one can [is able to] come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." By God's sovereign gracious choice, He awakens the will to the beauty of Christ and the Gospel, then the awakened soul embraces Christ and is sealed in Him by the Spirit. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13
Yes! James Montgomery Boice also has 3 ten minute youtube segments on it. Without understanding the bondage of the will a person has no understanding of anything including themselves
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Did God choose the lost to go to hell? No, Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Paul explains in Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. People go to hell bc of the Judgement and punishment for sin. Who sinned? Adam as it was passed to all of us. The RESCUE of the Elect John 17:2 As thou hast given him (Christ) power over all flesh, that he (Christ) should give eternal life to as many as thou (God) hast given him (Christ). John 17:9 I pray for them (the 11 apostles): I pray not for the world, but for them (the Elect) which thou hast given me (Christ); for they are thine. John 17:16 They (the 11) are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. John 17:20 Neither pray I for these (the 12) alone, but for them (the Elect) also which shall believe on me through their (the 11 + Paul that wrote in the Bible) word; John 17:24 Father, I will that they (the 11) also, whom thou hast given me (the Elect), be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. God opened our eyes by the Holy Ghost that we will see the truth.... John 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. Christ bought us as we our a gift from God to His Son. 1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 Corinthians 7:23-24 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God. Man's responsibility for sin Matthew 12:35-37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Romans 14:11-12 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. IF GOD PREDESTINED THE LOST TO HELL THEN BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE IS UNJUST. MORAL MAN WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS SINS. All were doomed to hell for what Adam did so in the love and mercy of God, He rescued the Elect through the blood of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. "I CHOSE Christ will never be a factor before the Judgement Seat of Christ. GLORY, GLORY, GLORY for saving me from hell for I have done nothing to deserve the love and mercy of God. Out of LOVE and MERCY, God RESCUED US from HELL.
@@jpri5216 That´s not Biblical dear brother... Salvation is a gift for those who believes... Faith is human response to the gospel... Faith is not merit or deserves salvation but God wants to save those who believe... that´s what Bible teaches...
Calvinists believe in free will too. Any person has free will to be a slave to their sin or a slave to Christ. Check into that. It’s the key to understanding.
Yes, we have free will, but our free will is aligned with God's predetermined plan. This is a great blessing. Imagine if our free will was indeed our own? Madness !
"And I, If I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32 "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." ~2 Peter3:8-10 Christ died for ALL!
Nice presentation. John MacArthur has preached on this extensively. He presents an excellent message called Twin Truths, God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Responsibility. Go to Grace to you and search sermons by scripture specifically John chapter three to find this message.
@@musicsmuse09 2 things. Go back and read John 6:40. And also do not build a doctrine or embrace a doctrine that has multiple points with no biblical support, only logical deduction.
Hey, Allen. Thanks for opening up this topic. It is something that I have been struggling through for the last 30 or so years and I still haven't come to what I think is an adequate understanding. I have found that many people pick their side in this issue based on their own opinions and personal beliefs rather than on Scripture. It's like Neo in the Matrix when Morpheus asked him if he believed in fate. Neo said that he didn't believe in fate because he didn't like the idea that he's not in control of his life. Neo didn't believe in fate because he didn't like it. We as Christians must believe what we believe, not because we like it but because it's what God says in his revealed word to us. Through the years, I have tried to go back to the Scriptures over and over to carefully study and understand what God is saying in these different passages. Most people tend to like the idea of free will and that we can freely choose or reject God but the Bible never portrays us as being free in any significant way. Paul says in Romans 6 that we were slaves of sin before we were saved and then we became slaves of righteousness after we were saved. We didn't have a free will. In this video, you quoted John 3:16 "... that whosoever believes in him..." The use of the word "whosoever" kind of makes it sound like the salvation call goes out to everyone and "whosoever" hears it and believes it is saved and will not perish. It kinda sounds like the bait on a hook that is thrown out into the water and the fisherman waits to see who bites. But the verse would be better translated "... that all who are believing in him..." This means that those who believe in him will be saved and those who don't, won't. But it's not a "Let's say this and see who accepts it" kind of thing. The believing ones are saved. The unbelieving ones are not. There are many more scriptures that we need to study very carefully to come to a biblical understanding. I'm still working on it but, like you, I'm leaning much more toward the "Calvinist" camp. Please continue to deal with this issue. As another person already said on this page, having an adequate understanding of this issue is not necessary in order to be saved, but I believe that a better understanding of it will help us to appreciate even more what an amazing salvation we have that God has so wonderfully given to us in his precious Son, Jesus.
@@Rose-cx9iz This is exactly why I currently do not identify with Calvin theology. Unconditional election seems quite weird. I don’t understand why God wouldn’t give all of His children the chance of salvation
@@jayleenv.7975 It really is an offence to the natural mind... but "how unsearchable are His ways and unfathomable are His Judgements" Romans 11:33 this caused Paul to worship God.. he didn't for a minute compromise the Sovereign election of God in Romans 9:18 and verses following... the truth is we all deserve God's wrath and judgemet... but I am so glad He chose me because I was lost... lost and truly deserved His wrath.. that's why with Paul, I can only say "Oh the depth of the riches both of the knowledge and wisdom of God !
@@jayleenv.7975 Because He is God. How would He demonstrate that He hates sin and punish it? How would then also demonstrate that He is full mercy at the same time? How would He also demonstrate Sovereignty. He is all knowing. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows the beginning from the end. He determines the outcome as He is the potter and we are the clay. St Paul made it clear in Roman's 9. Romans 10 suggests that Man also needs to work out his salvation. Now the question is, was it Paul that wrote the book of Romans or God? Answer. 100% Paul and 100% God. How is that possible? This is the reason the scripture is true. Because if it were to be written by Man, he would have either solved the puzzle or removed these passages from the scripture. I believe in calvinism. John 17, Jesus's prayer subtly reveals God's Sovereignty on Salvation
The biggest issue of Calvinism, and the Idea of pre determination lies with in the discussion of moral responsibility. If God determined our choices ahead of time and determined what we would do, and where we would go then he also determined mass murder, rape, child mutilation etc. even the some odd 50-60 scriptures that Calvinism uses to determine it’s stance, when taken in the whole context of where the scripture is taken from, shows that God desires that all would step in to heaven, and that he had readily made that choice available to us. God can be both the ultimate authority over us, and still in his sovereignty allow us to choose weather we would follow him.
1 John 2:19 (ESV) 19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." ......This explains the Perseverance of the saints
I am so grateful for your ministry and that you did this video specifically. I was raised Armenian without even knowing that's what it was. After getting married and my new husband and I looking for a church home in our new town we came across a wonderful church family who happened to be calvinist. We had no idea what it was so in a small group we were invited to we studied John Piper on TULIP. Everything started clicking. The scriptures we had been simply reading over our whole lives now had so much more understanding. God truly worked through our church family and his word to reveal his truths. Somethings take time to understand and wrestle with but God is ok with debate he is here for us to answer those questions that we have.
I know many Christians that are Calvinists, and I know many Christians who are Armenians. Christians vary in regards to whether they believe in Calvinism or Armenianism. This is an excellent video. Keep up the great work with your videos.
I believe neither predestination and free will are mutually exclusive. Our free will in no way has to challenge the sovereignty of God. Proverbs 16:9 “The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.”
Daniel Reed - Listen to Kairi B. The type of free will you speak of is probably a libertarian account of free will, which is mutually exclusive with predestination.
It’s not hard to understand. God’s Sovereignty is based on man’s free will. When our ancestors ate from the forbidden tree God commanded them not to eat. What happened? It brought forth separation from God and death to humanity. When Pharoah refused to release the Israelites from captivity under the Egyptians, what happened? God hardened his heart and sent 10 plagues on him and his land. When Moses told the Israelites to not go into the land of Canaan because of their disobedience, what happened? God wasn’t with them and they were scattered by the Amalekites and the Canaanites When the nation of Israel refused Christ’s salvation message? What happened. Paul went to the Gentiles to provoke his fellow Jews to Jealousy. I can go on and on. God doesn’t force humans to love Him nor does He let us walk over Him. It’s all evened out. He gives a choice to either accept His gift of salvation or not. As far as this life goes your free to do whatever God is still in control but He also can’t lie. If you believed you’re saved and sealed till the day of redemption Ephesians 1:13
Been a Calvinist since 2010, when the Lord chose to have mercy on me and save me! I thank God for choosing a wretched sinner like me and resurrecting me in Him!!!
The problem I have with all such conversations is that they become solely about God's power versus man's. God's will vs. man's. Salvation becomes treated as if it were something apart from a relationship with God. God initiates, he loved us first, he chose to come and make restoration possible while we were still his enemy, and he stands at the door and knocks. Then he waits for our response to the invite. Will we choose to open the door and ask him in? Will we choose to accept his love and learn to love him in return. That is our part, we are free to choose to accept or refuse. It is God's work and man's response. The two go hand in hand. Perhaps there is an alternative to being either a Calvinist or Arminian. Perhaps there is a middle ground that is closer the truth. One that sees this not in terms of God's sovereignty vs man's free will, but of a loving and relational God wanting our love and a relationship with us and not a mere follower of the rules. Which seems to be the main thing Jesus kept telling the Pharisees. Thank you for posting this interesting video. Merry Christmas.
Exactly! God is much bigger and certainly more complex than a black or white explanation. If His word indicates that both are true then guess what, both are true. For me, it's simple: Jesus died for the sins of the world. We can accept it or deny it. Those that accept it are saved and those that reject it are not.
great video. the one thing that was a problem was that you always said calvin said. calvin actually just summarized what the reformed church held too. great video
Lmbo! For real though! I can see it from both sides tbh...Lord help me, it's tough to pick a side haha! Although I will say that I sway more toward the Calvinism even though Arminianism does make some good points :)
Pastor Landon , quote: _"This comment section will be college dorm at 2am."_ A "college dorm" discussion would be excellent. My view is a bit 'nerdy' and differs from both Calvinism and Arminianism. In my view God exists 'outside' of time which would explain why some some prophecies are stated in the 'past tense'. The equation *E = MC2 says that TIME slows as you approach the speed of light.* If you put that on a graph then it's easy to show that at the speed of light TIME drops to zero. Stated another way _"there is no time at the speed of light."_ I'm trying to say that God can tell you that the bridge is out...but 'you' make the adjustment or ignore it.
@@thebeatagp ... yes but the TRADITIONAL doctrine, the doctrine taught by Jesus and the Apostles and early church was that of sovereign Grace (without works).... that repentance was the RESULT of regeneration and not the CAUSE of it. --------- So any "opinion" on Arminianism is something that was declared heresy as soon as it was introduced - around 1500 after the Bible was finished, around 1500 years after these doctrines were known. ------------ To ignore that reality is to remain "willfully ignorant" of facts and history. And WHY would anyone want to remain ignorant of the facts and history (reality)? ----------
I'm neither. I simply believe God's Word with the understanding of Holy Spirit and know I'm the creation not the Creator therefore , I'm okay without knowing absolutely everything. For His Spirit confirms with mine that I am His child. It's not His will that any perish but there are people who do reject Him. No man will have an excuse though ...the gospel is simple but people add their doctrine and complicate it. We are not to lean on our own understanding. His thoughts are not our thoughts , His ways are not our ways. My question is why argue? You're either sure and have that confirmation from Holy Spirit or you don't... 💯💥📖🙏for it is written: the Spirit confirms with our spirit that we are the children of God. Jesus said, to enter Heaven, you must be born again aka spiritually speaking. Jesus also said, "I am the truth, the way, and the life. Nobody gets to the Father except through Me. Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the grave, and you shall be saved. He made Him who knew no sin become sin for us. So that we might become the righteousness of God. Notice the word "might"? There's a broad path and narrow, the narrow few will travel... The narrow leads to life, the broad leads to destruction.
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. Did God choose the lost to go to hell? No, Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Paul explains in Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. People go to hell bc of the Judgement and punishment for sin. Who sinned? Adam as it was passed to all of us. The RESCUE of the Elect John 17:2 As thou hast given him (Christ) power over all flesh, that he (Christ) should give eternal life to as many as thou (God) hast given him (Christ). John 17:9 I pray for them (the 11 apostles): I pray not for the world, but for them (the Elect) which thou hast given me (Christ); for they are thine. John 17:16 They (the 11) are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. John 17:20 Neither pray I for these (the 12) alone, but for them (the Elect) also which shall believe on me through their (the 11 + Paul that wrote in the Bible) word; John 17:24 Father, I will that they (the 11) also, whom thou hast given me (the Elect), be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. God opened our eyes by the Holy Ghost that we will see the truth.... John 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. Christ bought us as we our a gift from God to His Son. 1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 Corinthians 7:23-24 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God. Man's responsibility for sin Matthew 12:35-37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. Romans 14:11-12 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. IF GOD PREDESTINED THE LOST TO HELL THEN BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE IS UNJUST. MORAL MAN WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS SINS. All were doomed to hell for what Adam did so in the love and mercy of God, He rescued the Elect through the blood of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. "I CHOSE Christ will never be a factor before the Judgement Seat of Christ. GLORY, GLORY, GLORY for saving me from hell for I have done nothing to deserve the love and mercy of God. Out of LOVE and MERCY, God RESCUED US from HELL.
I believe salvation is something GOD did for everyone. Something my Dad has said is that he has called everyone but only some will answer and I believe most will not.
Except Romans 8:28-30 says that those whom He called, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. So either God hasn't called everyone, or everyone is called, and therefore everyone will be conformed to the image of Christ...aka universalism, which is obviously not Biblical. And it would be odd for Paul to say "those whom He called" if there wasn't also a group that were not called. Why say "those whom He called" if everyone is called?
God tells us many places in His Word that His will is going to be accomplished. If He died for everyone and not everyone chooses Him, then His will is not going to be accomplished like He tells us it will. But Jesus says that all that the Father has given Him will come to Him. Jesus also tells us that no one can snatch us out of His hand, so it comforts us knowing that because He is faithful, we can't lose our salvation. If it was up to us to keep ourselves saved then we would all lose our salvation.
@@SamOwenI Universalism teaches all men can be saved regardless of what happens. Arminianism teaches limited election based on God's foreknowledge of who will accept or reject the call for repentance. 1 Timothy 2:4 "God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth" Matthew 23:37 ""Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."
You are one of the best and brilliant teachers on the Bible I’ve ever heard! I love your videos! Yes, I think exactly the same on this subject! I’ve preached here and in other countries and seen many miracles and healings and salvations. I come from a very evangelistic group and believe in “telling everyone about Jesus! But a long time ago, when I was leading street outreaches and preaching on street corners, my pastor told me something. He said “Fred, God doesn’t pour his spirit out on everybody”. I tripped out on that word! What do you mean? I think I sort of understood it when I was 20! But pioneering and pastoring (the experience) taught me, or rather drove home the truth that Jesus said “Upon this rock (God) I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”. God is the one who saves and we are only tools in His hand to bring it to pass! Hallelujah brother! Keep up the great teaching! In heaven we will finally know every mystery.
Good video overall but I am an Arminian and would like to add a couple thoughts. 1. Arminians do not believe we "muster up enough faith to believe". We believe in "prevenient grace" which means man is totally depraved, God draws him with grace and "gives" man the opportunity to reject or receive. 2. Most Arminian do not believe you can lose your salvation, they believe you can depart by free will. You lose your wallet by accident, you choose to fall away. 3. Every word of "believe" in the NT referencing salvation is in the "active" voice and not "passive" voice in the original language. The active means it is man's choice, the passive means God forces it on you. If we didn't have a free will it would be passive. Again I will quote Bro. Parr "don't believe how you feel but what the bible actually teaches". 4. Arminian beliefs hold to the fact that Adam sinned by his own free will and that God did not decree him to sin. He made a "free will" choice. To claim that man does not have a volitional will clouds this up and seems to place Adam's sin at the feet of God because someone was to blame.
God made the world.. he knew satan would fall.. he knew Adam would listen to Eve.. he knew we couldn’t resist sinning.. he knew we would need his son to live a sinless life in order for us to be made new.. God had this all planned out for his glory.. for his creation to understand that he is God almighty and he loves his creation aka mankind and long story short.. to appreciate him and live with him forever by his standards not ours. I’m praying for you and all the rest of my brothers and sisters who divide the church over these theological discernments.. I tell you one thing.. God is not okay with it..!! Y’all got to let your pride go.. We are called to share the gospel of Jesus Christ.. his sacrifice on the cross.. his love for us.. to turn away from sin.. please Joe.. just think about what I’m saying to you.. 🙏🏽❤️✝️
@@jayrocky9067 , sorry, but Calvinist beliefs mean humans are nothing but robots. I cannot believe God created certain people to give them no choice except to go to hell. That goes against the very spirit of a loving God.
@@cynthiasnyder1561 Whilst I disagree with Calvinism, you are making a mistake many Arminian apologists make ; that is using a logical argument before using a scriptural argument. God is God and his ways and thoughts are much higher than our ways and our thoughts. As Paul points out in Romans, if God chooses some to be objects of his wrath, that is his sovereign prerogative. However if we keep reading Pauls letter to the Romans and the rest of the new testament (instead of just the first 9 chapters of Romans and select passages of Pauls other letters as so many Calvinists seem to do) the only logical way to fit all those scriptures together favors the Arminian explanation IMHO
@@jayrocky9067 , I believe/hope that we can all agree the Bible tells us it is sinful to lie. So, I am honestly curious how a Calvinist tells people about the love of Christ. How do you spread the gospel? You can't tell them that God sent His son to die for their sins, because you do do not believe He died for all who believe in Him and repent. Only the elect.
Wow, I think that you are the first bible teacher to more or less express my own view on this subject. Struggled with it for years but finally settled in my mind that it is one of those things that we are not able to understand, and that both views are true in spite of a seeming contradiction. Think of it in human terms, when we were small children, could we even come close to understanding complicated matters that were easy for the adult to comprehend. Of course not. In this case we are the child struggling to understand something difficult, and God is the all knowing adult! Our day of understanding will come. This has been my approach to explaining and teaching these difficult doctrines for a number of years now. If the Lord ever reveals to me a better understanding, I will adjust my approach to it.
for the first time I disagree with Allan some parts I agree with Calvinism but John 3:16 makes it clear that Christ died for all. If we are "Elected " why do we have Evangelize ? why do we go out and preach the Gospel if it will all be in vein ?? why did God say I put life and death before you ???
i will stick to Christianism. None of those two are the way to the father only Jesus-Christ. i am not gonna stand on any man's doctrine but the one of Christ...
I feel the same way. I imagine if Christ were during these debates in the 1600s He would somehow rebuke both or combine them. I need to ask God for this.
This statement as though both sides dont believe that their respective theological position is taught by Christ Lol humor.....Christ made it clear that all sinners apart from him are “slaves to sin”. Ephesians 1 makes it clear that he has chose us in christ *Before* the foundation of the World. This being the teaching of the Lord, i will honor it and not ignore it :)
Hey Allen, great video! I was raised in the home of an Arminian pastor and attended an Arminian Bible College, it was during this time that I simultaneously encountered the teachings of Dr. RC Sproul who convinced me otherwise some 30+ years ago and have been a huge proponent of a Sovereign God Theology ever since. Yes, I’m a 5 point Calvinist and I believe without a doubt that, it is the only message that is clearly thought from Genesis to Revelations. It’s the heart of God towards the people of God.
@@midkort It's beyond our comprehension, but Malachi 1/Ephesians 1/Jeremiah 1/Romans 8 and 9... We also can NOT understand the Tri-Unity: Father AND Word AND Spirit, but God is Jesus the Savior.... Lord bless you!
If you don't believe in limited atonement, then explain the cross. Isaiah 53:10 says it please the Lord to crush Him. It would be unjust of God the Father to crush His Son for the sins of all people and then pour out His wrath on people in hell. Without limited atonement, you would have universalism...everybody's going to heaven. And that's not what Scripture says. Matthew chapter 7.
Personally, I feel like I belong to the middle ground, because I could honestly see both of these points. I mean, obviously God knows who will be saved and who will not. And I’m sure God loves us enough to give each of us a chance. But at the same time, we need God to start our salvation. He alone can save us, but I do feel that we have the power to choose God or not. I mean, think about the garden of Eden. God gave Adam and eve free will to choose Him or themselves. God knew what choice they would make, but God did not make them make that choice. I’m sure God loves each of us, and I’m sure God wants each of us to be saved, but God knows not all of us will make that choice. At the same time, I don’t feel that this in anyway takes away from the sovereignty of God. He alone knows what will happen. God is the only Lord. At the end of the day, I feel that I belong in the middle. I believe both that God is fully and completely saw Vern, and that man has complete free will.
Stay humble and keep alert. Your knowledge, wisdom combined with your heart are making a difference. I believe I’m a five point Calvinist. I’m not wise or smart, so my salvation must have been a gift that I was chosen to receive.
Matt 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
I think your understanding of the Arminian point is off. No Arminian believes that you can save yourself. And when it comes to conditional election Arminian believe in prevenient grace. He extended grace before hand. We believe God still choose you but he chose you because you came to him broken and humble. No Arminian would say that you can save yourself that’s clearly a bad representation of the belief so is a lot of what was said. I think this is a poor analogy of Arminians believe. Leighton flowers gives a great and clear understanding of what most non Calvinist and Arminians believe. I send this message in love have a great night all.
Good clarification. As an Arminian I compete agree. I think our view is often seen as dismissive of God's role in saving us. Arminians generally agree that God initiates and draws us unto Himself, He also does the transforming and saving work. Yes we respond by receiving and believing but we don't boast in that and it is not any sort of "work" we are doing to justify ourselves. We merely fall at the foot of the cross in response to his drawing us and opening our eyes. Blessings and love to all sides on this discussion.
I would respectfully disagree my friend. You imply man has this innate ability in himself to come to God. But that's contrary to scripture. First of all we have an inherited sin NATURE from Adam, ( Rom.5:12), so by NATURE we are children of wrath (Eph. 2:3) ie doomed from the womb (Psalm 51:5). Called federal headship. That nature dictates our ability as well as our desires and is the platform from which spring forth our actions. What does the bible say about that natures ability? Rom. 3:11-18. For this argument the key is v11 "...NO ONE seeks for God..." In other words "there is no God seeker". Similarly to John 6:37-44. Jesus response to the jews unbelief wass due to them NOT being part of the transaction between the Father and the Son (v37). The "whoever" that are not cast out, are those given. This is God's will. Again, sticking with the context, the "everyone" in v 40 are those given. And those "ones" given WILL come AND be raised on the last day. Jews grumble again. Jesus answers their unbelief again. V44 "NO ONE CAN COME.." "NO ONE", that's all without exception. "CAN COME" Stop right there. GK word dynamai means "TO BE ABLE". No one, no not one, has the moral and spiritual ability to come to Christ. "UNLESS" That implies an act or something OUTSIDE the ABILITY of man. And what is that act" Drawing! Jesus echoes that same reason for the followers offense in v61-65. V63The Spirit give life; the flesh profits NOTHING"... Also the drawing is not a "wooing". Nor is it a drawing to neutrality to make a "decision". Why? Cause all those who are drawn are raised up. So if, according to arminians, the whole world is "wooed" are they raised up? Are they universalist? OR, as Calvinist maintain, is John talking about those that are given to the Son by the Father? That's a short exegetical understanding of the text. I could go on and on with verses about man INABILITY. As far as Leighton Flowers, my brother thats the last guy you should listen to! He constantly, over and over and over again misrepresents the Calvinist position. Even when corrected he continues deliberately erecting Calvinist scarecrows. When you challenge his continual diatribe against calvinism( 99.9% his podcast are against fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. WHY???) and his trying to divide the body of Christ, he deletes your comments or shadow bans you. Read real calvinist like Sproul, Pink, Palmer, any puritan writing not "former calvinist" Leighton. Listen to this debate to get a real understanding of the calvinist position from Matt Slick. God Bless! ruclips.net/video/2V0YpZ0FnSQ/видео.html
Just by classifying all noncalvinsts as arminians is a fallacy. Not all noncalvinists are arminian. Arminians are actually closer on doctrine to calvinism than most noncalvinists. And calvinists typically don't represent the traditionalist/provisionist doctrines well. Many calvinists would probably say noncalvinists don't represent their doctrines well. It's actually not nonbiased.
I’m surprised you lean more towards the reformed view. I’m reformed myself and I appreciate how you actually did your study and presented both sides accurately.
THE BEAT by Allen Parr I often listen to your videos and some of your views doesn’t follow the lines of the traditional reformed views. Which is good because it means you read the Bible for what it says and not your lenses.
@@kavonte15, I'm surprised Kavonte that your so surprised that Allen Parr is Reformed in his theology. i wasn't 3 minutes in and i knew he was reformed in His presentation. this is the first video I have watched by Allen. Good video but I do disagree with the Calvinist view of scripture and the often misrepresented other views.
Gary Scalf he did a wonderful job presenting both sides accurately. I do hold to the reformed view but it’s other views that he holds to that traditional Calvinist don’t typically which is why prior to this video I didn’t believe he was reformed. But it’s good that he respectfully presented this information for both sides and did a great job studying
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting *ANYONE* to perish , but *everyone to come to repentance* . But the day of the Lord will come like a thief." You ask why is everyone not saved then? "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often *I have longed to gather your children together* , as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, *but you were unwilling!* " "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this *so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him* , though he is not far from *each one of us* ." "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw *all men unto myself* ." ( Jesus and the Father are one! ) These avenues of thoughts in God does not make sense in your unconditional election. “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and *whoever* comes to me I will never cast out.” From those God draws ( all men ), WHOEVER comes will be given to Christ. God draws all and those who are willing are given to Him by the Father and they are the elect. Paul had a disciple named Clementine who was well taught and favored and mentioned in the Bible. Do you know what he says? John had a disciple named Polycarp who had a disciple named Irenaeus, do you want to know what he said? In Philippians 4:3 Paul mentions “my fellowlabourers” “in the gospel,” and he names “Clement,” whose name he said was written “in the book of life…” History knows this man, who was Paul’s companion and who was endorsed by the Scriptures themselves, as Clement of Rome. Clement said, “It is therefore in the power of every one, since man has been made possessed of free-will, whether he shall hear us to life, or the demons to destruction.”[7] Clement said that “free-will” was given because “he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice…”[8] Clement also said that the reason a sinner was susceptible to God’s punishment for their disobedience was because a sinner has the ability to obey God. He said, “For no other reason does God punish the sinner either in the present or in the future world, except because He knows that the sinner was able to conquer but neglected to gain the victory.”[9] The reason that a sinner is punishable for sinning, he said, is because a sinner is able not to sin. He said that a sinner is punished, not for his inability but for his negligence. Below from (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 37, paragraphs 1 - 7) 1. This expression [of our Lord], ‘How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,’ set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spewing it out, they shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God
Calvinists believe that our faith is a gift from God, that we could never choose God of our own accord. Ephesians 2:8-9 very clearly spell out that faith does not come from ourselves but from God who gives it to us. Phillipians 1:29 adds that faith is granted to us (or given to us) as well. The Bible is clear that we are "dead in our trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1), and that "there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God" (Romans 3:11), so we cannot make the choice to follow God without God intervening in some incredible way. Romans 9 even dispels the idea that salvation is dependent upon human will "It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy" (Romans 9:16). The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is not something we can choose. It is not something that is up to us to accept. Our natural human will is always to reject because no one seeks after God and we are "by nature deserving of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3) because of this. Salvation occurs by faith, through grace, and faith and grace are both given to us by God. Most Christians will easily say that God gives grace, but he also gives us faith as well and Christians have such a hard time admitting this. Christians who do admit that God grants faith have the tendency to believe "I accepted God's gift" or "I rejected it" sometimes, but this is incorrect when studying the infallible Word of God, he predestined and chose you, you did not choose to accept or reject the gift "For he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his good pleasure and will" (Ephesians 1: 4-5). This Scripture tells us that God chose us, and it was by His will, not any choice that we made, that we are saved. This all backs up the thought that there is nothing we can do to be saved. No matter what we do, no matter what work or choice we make, it is all in God's powerful, mighty, sovereign hands and not in the hands of our feeble human will, but in God's will alone. Again, I will quote the apostle Paul when he says in Romans 9:16 "It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy" (Romans 9:16). Not our desire, not our choice, not our will. It's important to remember that we are not in control! We do not call the shots while God sits back and watches us twiddling his thumbs waiting for us to make a certain choice. God is in control! And He chose you (Ephesians 1:4, Romans 8:28-33), according to His pleasure and will, not ours. And praise be to Him, our Almighty, Sovereign Father for saving us wretches who could never choose Him, who never seek Him and conforming us to the image of His son and granting us faith (Romans 8:29, Phillipians 1:29, Ephesians 2:8)!
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, one of God’s greatest defenders in my opinion, writes “‘But’, says someone, ‘He foresaw that you would have faith; and therefore He loved you.’ What did He foresee about my faith? Did He foresee that I should get that faith myself, that I should believe in Him of myself? No; Christ could not foresee that, because no Christian man will ever say that faith came of itself without the gift and working of the Holy Spirit. I have met with a great many of believers, and talked to them about this matter; but I never knew one who could put his hand on his heart and say, ‘I believed in Jesus without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.’”
@@gocowboys4082 A few things here. _Ephesians 2:8-9 very clearly spell out that faith does not come from ourselves but from God who gives it to us_ It's salvation that is a gift from God and not faith. Greek words have gender: masculine, feminine, and neuter. When relative pronouns (such as “that” and “it”) are used to refer back to a noun, they always agree with the gender of the noun. The word “faith” in Greek is feminine. Therefore, if Paul was intending to say that faith is not of ourselves, but faith is a gift of God, he would have used a feminine relative pronoun for the word “that” (the word “it” is not actually in the Greek). But the word “that” is not feminine; it is neuter. Therefore, it is impossible for Paul to be thinking about “faith” when he wrote “and that is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.” It is grammatically impossible for the word “that” to refer to “faith” in Ephesians 2:8. The gift of God is His revelation to humanity and the salvation which comes to us by His grace _The Bible is clear that we are "dead in our trespasses and sins"_ Dead to what extent? Not even having the choice to believe in God? Sorry, that's called reading into the text. _and that "there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God"_ Yes, no one initiates the process of salvation by seeking God -- God does. I cannot call the president of the USA but that doesn't mean I can't answer his phone call. Only reading into the text with Calvin tinted glasses can you conclude something that doesn't follow. _he Bible clearly teaches that salvation is not something we can choose. It is not something that is up to us to accep_ The Bible clearly disagrees with you. If we are reading the same Bible that is. **I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you and your descendants may live,** _God and we are "by nature deserving of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3) because of this_ Yes, we affirm this. If God sent us all to hell then it would be perfectly just. **Regarding what you said about predestination -- yes, God predestines the believers to glorification conditioned on their keeping of faith and NOT unbelievers to become believers**
@@gocowboys4082 Also, Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Not the irresistible work of Holy Spirit that is only given to select few. The assistance of the Holy Spirit is cardinal but the decisive choice is given to the free creature, God decreed that we should have free will. Whenever men chooses good or evil -- He fulfills that sovereign decree therefore God is most sovereign.
@@SerendipitousProvidence Hello! I would like to start with the preface that though I disagree with you, I do not mean to be disrespectful in any way. I would also like to say that I used to be an Arminian and used to clearly subscribe to that belief (based on some of your words I conclude that you, like I used to, agree and use Dr. Leighton Flower's arguments or possibly Pastor Mike Winger's) but through the grace of God, I no longer think I am the determining factor in my salvation, praise be to the Lord ALONE that I am saved!! In regards to your arguments, in regards to Ephesians 2:8--if you want to get that picky with the Greek, I'm willing to go there. I think it's important to be picky and careful in translation and I will battle this common argument used commonly by Dr. Leighton Flowers. If you want to say it isn't faith alone there that is the gift of God, then the entire phrase preceding this is the gift of God, grace through faith then would be the gift of God, which still includes faith. Paul would not include faith in that phrase if it wasn't the gift of God. The entire phrase preceding the word neuter is the gift of God. That's what I'd argue. Why would he use something in that phrase that wasn't the gift of God when the whole phrase is the gift of God, the entire process is, from start to finish, the gift of God including the grace, the faith and the being saved. It makes no sense for Paul to say the entire phrase is the gift of God when something in the phrase isn't. However, of your own admission, without the Holy Spirit, man cannot choose God, so it is therefore the gift of God if you must have the Holy Spirit (God) in you first allowing you to choose God. You have to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't play a role to say that it isn't the gift of God or else if the Holy Spirit is cardinal to faith and salvation, it was the gift of God through the Holy Spirit. And this is just logically going off of what you said when you said the Holy Spirit is cardinal. In regards to Deuteronomy 30:19 I'd say that just because God commands something doesn't mean we can do it. We constantly fall short of God's commands and are unable to carry them out. God commands that we never sin, but we cannot not sin (that's a funny thing to say "cannot not"). It is a fact that you will sin in your lifetime, but God still commands that you not sin, just as he commands that you choose Him and choose life even though we are unable to so on our own accord (free-will). In regards to Ephesians 2, being dead in our transgressions and sins, it is quite literal here that we are Spiritually dead. Logically, can a dead person choose? Can a person of themselves choose to be born again? No, and this is why Paul uses the metaphor, and why Jesus uses born again, because it didn't depend on you but on God. John 6:63 tells us that the Spirit alone gives life and the flesh counts for nothing. You did absolutely nothing, the Spirit ALONE gave you life. It also teaches right before that in John 6:44 that "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up on the last day." The greek word for draws there is helkyse which is used in the same way later in Acts 16:19 "...they seized Paul and Silas and them into the marketplace..." and in fact this word more closely means dragged than simply draws in Greek. It is more active than an enticement, it is not passive but very active, or are far more accurate. You can check me on this translation, it is the truth. So this death is not something you alone can escape or choose your way out of, but it is necessary for the Father to draw you (or drag you) and for the Spirit to give you life when the flesh counts for nothing. This means you of your own accord, of your own flesh, didn't choose, which is free will (the ability to act at your own discretion). Also if you affirm that no one can seek God and no one is good and that God must call on us and seek us out (which is what I got from your commentary on Romans 3:10-12 in my original message) then you believe that man cannot choose God on their own. We cannot answer the call on our own because "no one does good, no not one". Is answering the call good? You can try to say no, but the logical answer is yes, answering the "call" is good and pleases God, and can only be done through the work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:63; the flesh contributes nothing, Romans 9:16; it doesn't depend on human will but on God's mercy, Romans 8:8-10; no one can please god, or pick up the call which I would say is pleasing to God, without the Spirit). The main problem with Arminianism is what yousaid in your last message.
1Corin 3:1-9 The fact that people within God's church are divided like this (i.e. referring to themselves as "Calvinists/Reformed, Arminianism, Charismatics, etc.") is completely unbiblical, slightly immature, and somewhat worldly. And Paul knew this would happen. I get the argument/explanation, which was very thorough (and somewhat necessary), but I know folks who won't budge and deeply follow the beliefs of old "Calvin (whose DEAD)," more so than Jesus (Whose ALIVE). Don't fall into the trap, Fam! Love ya vids, btw. Keep em coming! :)
You’re a great speaker. What you say makes sense and you have scripture to back up both views. Thumbs up and subscribed, thank you for this it was exactly what I needed!!!
for the first time I disagree with Allan some parts I agree with Calvinism but John 3:16 makes it clear that Christ died for all. If we are "Elected " why do we have Evangelize ? why do we go out and preach the Gospel if it will all be in vein ?? why did God say I put life and death before you ???
Allen I appreciate your humility on this subject, admitting that different view points have strengths and weaknesses, rather than I'm aggressively promoting one view. Saying that though, I think you could have been more careful with the words you used, I felt that at times you misrepresented particular points. One other thing to be aware of, it's not just Calvinism or Arminianism. There's also Molinism and Provisionism (Traditionalism). It would have been fairer to point out there are other viewpoints as well.
The five points were not re-affirmed in 1619. They were formulated as a reaction to Arminius. Calvin was already dead by the time the synod took place. The so called five points were not formulated by Calvin but by theological successors.
@@ginnymoore21 Nevertheless, the five points were consistent with what Calvin believe. He taught very clearly that the final destiny of every person has already been predetermined by God. In this paradigm some would be saved but most are predestined to damnation for not other reason than God was pleased for it to happen that way
No man can choose God. Well Jesus has news for you. "For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son that ALL WHO BELIEVE in him shall receive eternal life." He did not say "only certain people I choose. . . . "
Excellent you are the only one i heard who understood, its about not questioning God with our human logic which doesn’t apply but just trusting in the savior which is our only concern which Pauls mentions, God bless and Merry Christmas
But why was the world in any jeopardy? Why was any rebel angel sent to Earth, and not exiled elsewhere? And did Adam and Eve have any idea they existed, or that they faced any peril?
Just a heads up the word WHOSOEVER is not found in the Greek manuscript it just says that who believes is saved it’s quite specific. Go read a interlinear copy of the Bible it’s right there whosoever is not there . Blessings
Yes, and what do you imagine that means? That God treats all men the same? That God gives the same grace to all men? Whosoever believes will not perish, but who will believe? Arminians imagine the bible says God treats all men the same, yet clearly the bible shows He does not. Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. They don't like that verse so much.
When I was a child I would take a magnifying glass and burn ants... (yes children can be cruel). I would decide which ant would live and which one would die. I can not believe that God would make me and choose me to burn for eternity (not by a magnifying glass) but to burn for eternity in hell. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. It's not a story book and we are charters in it, with some of us villains and others good, because there is none righteous, no not one. We have a choice and that Jesus died for all and some will accept and some will not. God is all knowing and knew who would accept him and who would not. I believe that is the predestination that God knows and accepts us. I run every day 3 or 4 miles and listen to RUclips videos. You are one of my favorite preachers that I listen to, but I was thrown off when you said that you lean towards Calvinism. When you said that, I stopped my run and just stood there. I will continue to listen to you but I guess we can't agree on everything. This I know; Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who died for my sins and washed me clean with his blood and said he will remember my sins no more.
I AM A CALVANIST AND IT'S ENCOURAGING WHEN I KNOW OF OTHERS, BESIDES MY DAD AND I, WHO BELIEVE THE TRUTH. THANK YOU, ALAN! KEEP SPREADING THE WORD. BLESS YOU, BROTHER!✝️♥️✝️
Hey calvinists look. 1 John 2:2 And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. The son set us free! ♥️
I don't consider myself to be either and when I was saved I didn't know what Calvinism or arminianism was. It was God the Holy Spirit that showed me overtime that God was real and that he loved me unconditionally and sacrificially it was that love that Drew me to Salvation
The video really helped me identify alot of things. thank you for making it. i appreciate it. so, if the church cannot choose either position how can I know that I am saved? maybe I want to be saved and God didn't choose me? so I keep trying and fail. why would God want to force himself on me? a lot has been forced on me in my lifetime and against my will. god has never treated me this way. I believe I am depraved, a rebellious sinner who walked in my own ways and being blinded by my sinful flesh and that light of Jesus had to be seen for me to identify that there was another option I can choose. where does conscience come into play? God who is the author of faith and sovereign, provides me with opportunities with his promptings of faith to have a relationship and I can choose his invitation or not. when i choose i am sealed by the holy spirit. i can back slide, I can sin, and I can return to my father in heaven and there are many many examples in the Old Testament of god's faithfulness to rebellious people. this is the example of the entire Old Testament and God was still faithful. the gospel is not Calvinism or Arminianism. the gospel is what Jesus says Mark 1:14-15 (KJV): Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. even Paul acknowledges and preaches what Jesus says is the gospel. why are we spending so much time and money on what men say? who cares what man says. god does not make it this complicated. we are not that smart. read the Old Testament, which is what Jesus read. god made himself known very simply. Arminianism and Calvinism is an attempt to state that man has the audacity to know everything about god's heart and mind. we must believe in faith that has been given to us by God. Faith means we can't answer everything that comes to mind about how God does things. read the book of Job. there are no conclusive answers except that Jesus came to pay the price for my rebellious depraved sin and if I want to be reunited with the king I must acknowledge this about myself and learn how to walk in his ways. the 10 commandments are a good starting point for a moral code. god doesn't make a relationship with him difficult but these two schools sure do. ok thank you for listening.
Well said sister. Well said. I lean more towards the Calvinist side however the election part confuses me bc John 3:16- ..fpr God so loved the world…whosever believes in him will have eternal life. I’m torn bc I feel a sense of having to choose. But if God already chose me then is there anything else I must do? Is there no point in deciding? Idk. But like u said, as long as we believe the finish work of Jesus, by the Father with the power of the Holy Spirit. I pray I am saved too. God bless you sister.
@Janet smith I wish I would have saw this earlier. I have to walk people through this a lot. In 2 Peter 3:9 (and I wish he would have put this in this video) The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for ALL to come to repentance. Now, you realize that you are a sinner, you're sorry and you repent. The jailer that was guarding Paul and Silas in the prison after having that traumatic experience said what? Sirs, what must I do to be saved...and they said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house." So, if you are struggling, and you believe. If you are concerned about your salvation. If you love Jesus and what all He stands for.. If you believe He is God in Man. And you repent. You are saved. Simple. I think sometimes we complicate the gospel so much that people get confused. Easy Peezy, Lemon Squeezy. This is deep, it is very helpful for us theologians, but for the person just wanting eternal life...well: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
I think it’s a mix of the two just as Allen said towards the end it’s “a balance”. But there ABSOLUTELY is free will. As it says in the Bible that there is damnation among those who practice and dwell in lawlessness and relish in their sins. If you’re purely chosen and you cannot reject the gift of salvation, you can in theory, sin all you want and never have to worry a single day about losing your salvation. I think we are all given the free will on earth to do anything we please but at the end of the day God has the sovereign last say about the choices we make. That being said, I don’t believe that we can “save ourselves” or that we can “elect” ourselves. God’s salvation for us is totally undeserved and our righteousness is through Christ alone. God’s “elect” are those who choose to receive the gift of salvation. Jesus died for every past and present sin on this world. If that wasn’t so, his salvation would not have applied towards the sin of the unelected. So His salvation would only be sufficient for the elect. But as we know the Bible makes clear that His blood covers ALL sin. My last and final point is, if everyone was preselected and we were all just playing out the moves of our puppet master, then what purpose would we as Christians serve here on earth for God? What would be the point of evangelism? Why would God set up a pre narrated “play” if you will, here on earth just for us to enact it? God is after our hearts. He desperately wants our love. And if we were all just pre elected puppets, why would He bother seeking our love and attention? Just some things to think about. God however at the same time, is absolutely 100% sovereign and all knowing. But I do believe He allows us to make decisions (aka free will). Again I believe it’s a mix of the two.
@octoberinnewyork I think our western minds want to read John 3:16 as a command, sort of like "do this and you receive that", because that makes sense to us with the way it is translated. In Greek the phrase reads like this "all those believing in" rather than "whosoever believes in"; it is a description of the benefits that believers have in Christ.
@@AllanEvansOfficialbut what if.....WHAT IF the person who is elect doesn't have the WANT or desire to live a sinful lifestyle anymore, after all, repentance is a fruit of being saved. Show me a person who claims to be elect but continues to live a life of outright treachery and I'll show you a false convert. Yes we have a will but it isn't as free as you'd like to believe, The Bible is quite clear about that; describing our life as being in bondage and a slave to sin, by nature a child of wrath (we gloss over those or sugar coat them because they go against autonomous free will). You may just have a limited view or understanding of God but The Bible is clear that He is sovereign and there is not one maverick molecule in this whole existence, He is all knowing and unchanging and He does as He wills. Often we create a god of our own image, one that placates and bows to the sovereignty of man's free will, but my friend that is no God of Scripture; our God shapes and molds men as He wills, He causes the regenerate to walk in His statutes, He is the author and finisher of our salvation. Think of this for a sec, if God is beholden to our free will (because He's a gentleman, as some might say) them what's the point of praying to Him for a lost person's salvation? Hasn't He done all He will do by wooing them?
Great topic hmm I believe that God wants everyone to be saved but not everyone will CHOOSE to be saved. I believe once born again there is no losing your salvation. I don't believe there are a set of people that God has chosen for salvation I think salvation is for anyone that wants it. Bottom line we all will have path after path to be saved under God's "plan" but ultimately we have to make the decision to be saved. God didn't want robots to just control He wanted us to willfully choose Him.
Kevin B I agree Kevin. God is willing that all should come to repentance. God wants all to be saved. Now, if he wants all to be saved, shouldn’t he give everyone a chance? Yes. And yes, God does know who will he saved, obviously, because he is all-knowing. But what kind of God would only give the ones he knew would accept a chance? That’s very unfair. There will be no excuses in Heaven.”, but in the Calvinistic view, one could rightly say that God was not fair. I believe in a moral and fair God, who gives free will toward everyone. We have the free will to sin or not, so why shouldn’t we have free will over our salvation? A God that forces us to be saved is not a good God. However, 2 or 3 of the Points of Calvinism I do agree with. I’m somewhere in between these two views; I don’t believe in predestination per se, but I do not believe Christians can lose their salvation. God Bless
@@icandoallthings5326 Hebrews 4 is a warning to Saints that they can fall in the wilderness and not enter into the promise land just like the Israelites. Hebrew 6 contains a similar warning. Sin when it is full grown produces death period. We are free from condemnation if we walk according to the spirit. Romans 8
Sam Tipton You know what that means? It means that we have a choice whether not to get Heaven. Obviously not all the Israelites were saved. So it is possible for them to make a choice to rebel against God and not enter the Promised Land. The Bible says “no man can pluck thee out of the Father’s hand”, in John 10:28. “No man” includes you clearly. If “no man” can pluck you out of Gods hands, then we cannot make ourselves lose salvation. Now, yes, if we are really saved, we will not live in sin. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” If we are truly saved, we will follow God and keep his commandments to the best of our ability. Good day
Keven B... you don't even understand the "milk" of the Gospel. The church consists of MANY (unsaved) "tares/goats" who have "chosen" to be saved and relatively FEW (saved") "wheat/sheep/saints" who were saved by God's sovereign Grace. --------- You fail to understand that Jesus and the Apostles and the early church taught that repentance is the RESULT of regeneration and not the CAUSE of it... that heresy was not introduced (as "leaven" of the "tares/goats") until many years after the Bible was finished. ---------- BTW... your comment about "robots" is ridiculous. The Bible teaches that all men are DEAD until they are regenerated. The Biblical teaching has nothing to do with robots (that is another heresy) The Biblical teaching has everything to do with mankind being DEAD and, therefore, unable to contribute to his salvation. ---------- Again, you do not even understand the "milk" of the Gospel... that some men are "hated" by God before they are born and that some men are created to be vessels of destruction while others are created to be vessels of mercy and it's ONLY GOD that makes the decision on which is which [read Rom 9] --------- The Bible is clear that NO MAN can come to Christ unless the Father first "draw" them and ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come" to Christ and that He will lose NONE of them. In fact, when the disciples (correctly) realized that Jesus taught salvation by election - then MANY of them decided to abandon Him [Jn 6:65-66] because they wanted (like you) to have a Gospel in which God was not sovereign and they could "choose" their salvation. -------------
Wise Virgin You just insulted Kevin. He obviously does understand the Bible. He just disagrees with you. Yes, God does initiate the saving process, but it’s up to us to decide whether or not we accept it. And we cannot lose our salvation. Now, when Jesus was inviting Nicodemis and the rich young ruler to be saved, we have no idea if those two got saved. They were invited to be saved, but they both walked away at that time. Where is there a picture of Jesus forcing salvation on them? I wouldn’t want to worship a God who forces us to be saved. That’s unfair. He gives us a choice on whether to sin or not... why don’t we get a choice whether to accept him or not? God created us to all go to Heaven, but obviously we all won’t. God gives everyone a chance, because He is fair. A fair God gives everyone a chance. You’re playing with Fire. Watch out, and try to be less arrogant and judgmental of others like Kevin next time. God Bless
I was actually in Arminian for a long time. It was while I was trying to disprove Calvinism that I became a Calvinist. I realized that it took a lot of eisegesis of scripture to come to the conclusion of free will. Exegesis of scripture is what led me to Calvinism, which should just be called biblical theology. More specifically: Matthew 16:15-17, Matthew 11:25-27, John 1:12-13, John 3:3-8, John 5:21, John 6:44, Acts 5:29-32, Acts 11:17-18, Acts 13:46-48, Acts 16:13-15, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 2:1-10, Philippians 1:29-30, 2 Timothy 2:23-26, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Peter 1:3, and 1 John 5:1.
@JJ France I think Thomism solves this problem. I've been on a journey through historical theology this last year which has led me to the Catholic Church.
Just found this video, Thank you for making it. I would say my struggle with strict Calvinism is that it removes the motivation to “go and make disciples”….(evangelism/missions) because it opens the door to a mindset that “well God is going to save them anyway, I don’t need the be involved.” I do NOT see scriptural support for that.” I am of the opinion that since God is separate from our human linear time, He “knew” what was going to happen/ what choices we were going to make since Creation.
Thank you for creating this video for us! You have really explained the two Calvinism and Arminianism to where even a child can understand it! Thanks for doing that. I've always been confused about the two biblical thoughts and appreciate you clearing them up for us! I too lean more towards the Calvinistic view, however, am not completely embedded in it. :)
I believe God calls/chooses everyone for initial salvation. After all he says "It is his will that ALL men be saved and not perish". Mark 16:15-16 " And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." I believe however few are chosen for final Salvation/glorification in the sense that people can freely accept or reject that invitation and its not all people that will accept. So basically the chosen ones are those who have beleived in christ and are chosen for glorification in christ Jesus. This scripture (Matt 22) when read in context is a parable where people were invited to a marriage only few met the requirements and they are the chosen ones So in a sense he does choose us because he calls everyone. But ultimately it takes two to tango
Calvinism argues that we can’t choose though. There’s no room for that. When you say we can freely accept or reject that’s exactly what Calvinism is against. You are kind of speaking out of both sides a bit here.
The word said to "Work out your "SALVATION" with fear and trembling.. Even if we were chosen before time, it's still our responsibility to make it with God! btw, everyone was chosen but it's up to us to receive!
@@adrftgvvbh He's partially reading Philippians. Here's the rest: [+]Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, *both to will and to work* for his good pleasure. (Phil 2:12-13) Sooooo.. if you decide to believe in God, it is God working in you to change your will so that you want to please Him and work for Him.
Acts 13:48 King James Bible And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and (as many as were ordained )to eternal life believed.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” Matthew 28:19 NIV Either way, this is our mission.
According to calvinist point of view , there is no means of doing that as even when you preach the Gospel or not God is going to somehow gonna save that person who is already elect . 🥲🥲🥲
The young rich man rejected Jesus invitation to follow Him. One of the thieves next to Jesus mocked and rejected Him. The other thief repented and didn’t necessarily ask for salvation but Jesus definitely saved him. So repentance is the first step we have to take willingly but even that doesn’t save us. Jesus saves us just like He saved that thief.
@Read Your Bible You're ignoring the verse right after Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is correct, but you must take it into context. Acts 2:39 says "The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call." It doesn't depend on your decision, but God whom called you. And Calvinists don't believe they have the Holy Spirit from birth, but they do believe the Holy Spirit acts on them prior to their belief. Read Romans 8, the entire chapter. It should clarify to you that without the Holy Spirit, we are at enmity with God and it is by the Spirit that why cry "Abba, father!". Also 2 Corinthians 4 (I believe) is pretty essential to understanding that without the Holy Spirit, we cannot know God. God bless you, hope this helps!
I am neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian; I believe they are two opposite extremes and the truth is in the middle. I have thought long and hard about this subject, and I believe I have come up with a pretty good allegory to explain what I believe about the matter.
We are all drowning at the bottom of an infinite ocean. God's grace and mercy in showing us the way to Him lift us to the surface of the ocean, where God extends a hand to each person. If a person accepts God's hand, God lifts him out of the raging sea to salvation. But a person may also choose to ignore God's hand, and since I believe God does not force salvation upon anyone, that person is not saved.
My problem with extreme Calvinism is that it essentially makes us robots. True love is never forced. God created us to glorify Him, and if we were forced to serve Him, we would not truly love Him, for we would have no choice in the matter. I'm not saying that man saves Himself; God does all of the work, we just have to choose Him and then he promises to save us. Also, God says that he wishes for everyone to come to Him. For that to be the case and it being a fact that not everyone is saved, God must not force Himself upon us, else He would be a liar, which He is not. (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4)
My problem with Arminianism is that it gives man the credit for salvation. This is even more biblically inaccurate than Calvinism, for the Bible clearly teaches in multiple passages that man cannot save himself and that it is "by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9)
So I fall in the middle, believing that only through God's grace and mercy may we come to know the way of salvation, and once we repent of our sins and accept Him, He will save us. He sends no one to hell; rather, we are all naturally on our way to hell due to being sinners, and when God saves us we are then on our way to heaven. Through God's foreknowledge, He knows exactly who will be saved and who will not be.
From what I have studied, this is the most biblically accurate view of salvation. Thank you for reading :)
This is exactly how I see this. Thanks for articulating it for me.
I don't completely disagree or agree with this. This concept matches that of those chosen to be soldiers for Gideon's army, which makes me concur. However, there's that city of Nineveh that God opted to Save from destruction. They didn't know they needed to be saved and Jonah did not want to tell them. This is sort of where Calvinism comes into play. Sure they chose to be saved once they found out they needed it. However, you cannot deny that God decided they would be saved first.
@@Kharizmah I don't quite get your Gideon reference in this context.
With regards to Nineveh, I somewhat agree with you. The one thing I would say to that is that was more of a pattern of consistency of God's personality in that He gives us the opportunity to respond correctly to Him calling us. In Jonah 3:4 Jonah warns them they have 40 days to get right and thankfully they responded correctly. But if they wouldn't have taken heed to the warning they would've been overthrown. So a consequence of the wrong response was laid out. Most of the prophets of the old testament gave a warning, time was given, and the result of the wrong response was told to them. Similar to Pharaoh ignoring God's words via Moses and also ignoring all the plagues. Those were warning shots and Pharaoh hardened his heart. Wrong response. In turn God hardened his heart.
@@nowfaithis9799 To match up with the OPs post everyone in the beginning is part of the hellish battle (that is life).
They all have to fight, or do they? At this point God chooses who is really going to be a soldier in the battle.
He sets out a series of ground rules to determine who is 100% all in. If the soldier, responds a certain way then they are not chosen. So in the beginning many people chose to fight, but in the end some fell away.
That correlates with the parable of the sower and the seeds. Lots of people think they choose Christ but then the birds come along and they fall away.
God knows who those are that will not fall away when the trial and tribulations come. He knows who are those who will stay and fight the battle.
Thanks, I do not have a profound knowledge about this topic but i agree with what you say, God saved us by Grace, we have absolutely nothing to work for because Jesus has accomplished everything on the cross for us. Still, to be able to enjoy this free gift fron God, we have to accept Jesus-Christ as our Lord and Saviour, so for me, that's where the "choosing" (i would rather say "welcoming") part comes in, and once we are saved, we can't loose our salvation because we did no work to acquire it, it has been given by God
Man: Does God choose us or do we choose God?
God: Yes.
Jimbo Lawless xD
😂😂😂 so accurate lol
Yes John 6:44
@@NewCreationInChrist896 How does God draw?Calvinism do not understand John 6.
@@chrisamandadeysel5117 u should have explained
I see it as a marriage proposal (b/c the church is the bride of Christ.) The man chooses his bride by proposing to her. She chooses him also by accepting the proposal. God chooses us, & we must choose Him.
J Gambrell it’s makes perfect sense ..
Some common sense. It's like Calvinists want so badly to believe that God just supernaturally chooses you and you've literally got no say in the matter. How in the world is that a narrow way that leads to life? Seems broad to me.
Agree
That is probably one of the best ways of describing it that I have ever heard. I love this. God bless you.
Wow...awesome thought
I was going back and forth on this topic, first siding with the “free will” of man, but the more I read the Scriptures, from OT to NT, the more I began to side with God’s complete sovereignty. With that said, whichever way one leans, it doesn’t impact their salvation. Thanks for a great video!
I’ve always asked this question and I told my friend about it when she was wanting me to follow Christ and she didn’t have the exact answer but she said that God will NEVER turn away from someone who asks him for salvation. And that’s all I needed to hear. It gave me peace
that is true, but when God lets a person ask for salvation, it is his holy spirit working in a person.
Isaiah already said it:
Isaiah 65:
“I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me;
I was found by those who did not seek me.
To a nation that did not call on my name,
I said, ‘Here am I, here am I.’
notice the I said part, God came to people, not the other way around.
Adam, where are you? not : God where are you?
@@nielsqbc4 Jesus Christ said whoever believes in him will be given eternal life. I believe this offer is to everybody. And what you said is not entirely true. Not everyone who asks for salvation will receive it, that´s why Jesus said BELIEVE not ASK. It´s not just a sentence or prayer you say without meaning. It has to come from the heart. I prayed the sinner´s prayer and I was unsaved for many years because I never received the Holy Spirit. Only God knows your heart and whether you truly believe. God bless.
ElSpewtardo greatly explained man.
@@Romans8-9 I had same experience, recited sinner's prayer for years from my lips but not from my heart and God didn't hear me.. but oh, when I called out to Jesus from my heart... I received the Holy Spirit right then and there, thank you Jesus !!
O u B n be a Accor pop g poop poop poop j DDS I DDS all a 7u$uuiauuioo
Ok guys, story time.
When I was around 6 years old, my dad led my younger brother and I in the sinner’s prayer. However I don’t think I was really saved because I was living in willful sin and actually treated OSAS as a license to sin. About 6 months ago (February 2nd) I made the choice as an adult (I’m 20 now) to answer Christ call. I knew I was living in sin, without a care in the world; my temper was short, my patience little, my tongue full of profanity, my lust uncontrollable, and was angry at God. I was strongly considering dropping out and giving up on college because I had no direction in my life. All of this made worse due to me being on the Autism Spectrum. In other words, I was a complete wreck.
However, when I trusted in Christ, MAJOR changes took place in my life. I came to realize just how dead in my sin I was, and I, as well as others, began seeing the fruit of the Holy Spirit within myself. Certain video games I used to play I couldn’t bear to even see on my computer screen anymore; my impatience towards my family disappeared little by little, and I’m now working to repair the relationship between them and I. A desire to spread the good news of the Gospel sprung within me, as well as the desire to go to Church, fellowship with other Christians, and read my Bible; all of which used to be chores for me. Lust and sexual self-gratification decreased, though I still struggle with temptation. If I do sin, it would eat me from the inside out until I confessed it to God.
I do have seasons where I feel far from God and crave the joy I receive when I feel close. There are times where I’ll fall and give in to temptation and sin, but the fact that if we humble ourselves and confess our sins He is faithful and will forgive (1 John 1:9) gives me strength to get back up and continue on in my walk with Christ.
The fact that these things are happening gives me assurance that the Holy Spirit is working within me, and combining that with the knowledge that God will finish what he started (Philippians 1:6) gives me faith in all of God’s promises and assures me that I am sealed.
Whoever happens to read this whole thing (I know it’s long😬), remember that God loves you more than you can possibly imagine, and WANTS a relationship with you! And if you’re truly in Christ, you’ll see growth and change!
God Bless❤️🙏🏻
My walk has been so simular to yours. Fight the good fight.
Are you saying, then, you are a Calvinist or . . .?
SargeWinsZombies thank you so much for this!
SargeWinsZombies Amen, Thank God. I’m happy that your happy. Truly trusting God comes with an amazing feeling, never mind the blessings as well. I’m striving for that trust more and more each day, and God can change anything overnight too, it’s crazy. God bless youuu ❤️👏🏾
Amen!
it’s important for all Christians to remember during this debate that our salvation is not based on picking one of these worldly views. So remember to love one another while debating this fun topic
What's the point of this debate then? I feel this is a waste of time, one of the many things that is in God's domain of understanding, and not man's.
I believe the debate plays an important role in bringing us closer to God. It motivates people to dig deeper
@@toonnaobi-okoye2949 its important to see how easily people fall into doctrines of men and identify with those men.
Exactly! Both sides trust in Christ to save them and he does the work. Thank God that the motivation for this secondary doctrine is an issue of *Heterodoxy not Orthodoxy* It's also worth noting, there is already a firm but loving rebuttal on it from Dr. Flowers at *Soteriology101* worth watching. It's called *Is God Sovereign or do we have Free Will? Yes*
Toonna Obi-Okoye You can’t love a God you do not know, and you will never know God if you run away from any type theology
Absolutely! If the Holy Spirit wouldn’t have called us, we wouldn’t have believed. The Holy Spirit first softens our heart, in order for us to see Truth! Excellently said! Thank you, for putting this out here for us.
Amen! Jesus says that in John 6, when He says NO ONE can come to Him UNLESS the Father FIRST draws them to Him. God must act first, and soften our heart to receive Christ. Blessings to you.❤
@@phillipaj.5588 so much for "God wishes no man to perish but all come to repentance". 😞
Before creation, God predetermined the hearts of the people that the Holy Spirit would soften.
@@ryleighloughty3307 AMEN!!! So many Christians don’t believe this, but it is 100% Biblical.
When I get to heaven, I have a feeling I'm not going to care either way. I'll be to busy worshipping God and/or hanging out with those who will also be there.
I am sure in Heaven, first we ought to learn and understand all aspects of God, life and the universe, so all these questions we have here, will be fully understood.
@@nikokapanen82 It will depend on what the Godhead reveals to us, now and in eternity.
@@nikokapanen82 if she loved God she would already be doing that.
Niko Kapanen i’m sure you know that we see through a glass darkly you’re not gonna know all things on this side of heaven. that would make you God.
See you there sister☺
God knows what's going to happen but He gave us a will
We do have free will but it is corrupted and we can't choose God before He regenerates us. He tells us we are dead in our sins and a dead man must be regenerated before he can make a right decision.
@@heis3112 Does regeneration precede faith in the scripture below?
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
.
@@SpotterVideo If you keep reading in Eph. 2 for context you will see that He makes us alive while we "were dead in our trespasses". As we all know a dead person has no faith until he is regenerated or brought to life which is all God and none of us. We trust after He enables us to through regeneration. Just like we made no contribution to our physical birth we make no contribution in our spiritual birth. I think what God means by dead is dead. I'm sure you will rejoice with me in knowing that God gets 100% of the credit and glory for our salvation and we get none.
For further context read the preceding verses in Eph. 1 and you will see it is only those who were "predestined for adoption" before the foundation of the world. How did He choose "according to the good pleasure of His will".
Eph. 2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
@@heis3112 , I'm always amazed that people want to use Eph. 2 to say that we were so dead in sin that we couldn't do anything but never bother to explain how a dead person with a corpselike deadness is able to "walk" (Eph. 2:2). Both are an analogy and I understand that people want to stretch the analogy to the limit, but the walking dead are zombies, not corpses.
Cameron Reed. Ive come to that same realization the other day. I think both of those things can be true at the same time
This is one of many Bible Mysteries...
for example...
"You are invited to my place for a party" said The speaker to the congregation....
How many people did the speaker invite to the party???
Some would say everyone...
Other people will say "just me"....
Both answers are wrong and correct at the same time...
But don't get caught up on the invite!!!
Just serve GOD, and make it to the party....
Notice will be served, maybe - yes.
I love this analogy, bless you brother! 😊
You are incredinly stupid and undoubted ly in a strange weirdo cult 🤦
You can't serve a God you dont know
He does not accept what you demand he accepts in dopic willful ignorant disobedience
But if that speaker is Jesus then only those who are His sheep know and understand and obey His voice. They go to the party because they believed. When you believe you obey. The others will argue and not believe in the invitation but that was on them to reject the invite. All are welcome but not all will come. If the speaker didn’t want everyone to come and only wanted a select few to know then he would only speak to the few that he wants to come, he would also only invite those few too. But he announces the invitation so that everyone may hear it but only those that have ears to hear understand the invite.
"this is one of those things that aren't going to make sense to our finite minds" perfectly said. I think that a halfway medium between Calvinism and arminianism is where it's at. I think both concepts put God in a box and limit his authority and power. I believe that God chooses us, but I don't think he chooses others to hell. I don't think God sees into the future as arminianism would suggest but I think as he is timeless, he already knows. But I think he still offers salvation to all. He's a just God, so why wouldn't he offer it to all? I think arminianism leans more towards a works based salvation but Calvinism leans more towards a hopeless salvation. And James chapter 2 says "faith without works, is dead." In other words, our works, complete our faith in Christ. If you have faith in what Jesus did, but don't act upon it, then what faith is that? That's not faith, that's just saying that you believe. For example, I can say I have faith that my car will drive, but if I don't put gas in it, it isn't going to run. I'm not saying that what Jesus did can't work without our belief, I'm just saying that you can't have true faith in something unless you actually work towards that belief. Living your life towards that belief (being kind, helping people who are less fortunate etc, ) shows that you believe and have faith, whereas just saying you have faith does justice to nobody. Not that our works gives us salvation, not at all. Rather, Our faith is supposed to bring glory to God via our works. To be a light to show to the world that they might see who God really is and we (Christians) are his representatives on earth.
Think about this. 2 people come to you and offer you a vacation. The first guy tells you that he thinks it's a nice place to stay and that's it. The 2nd guy shows you how nice it is. He offers pictures, maybe souvenirs he brought back and you feel almost like you have been there yourself. Which one would you be more likely to go with? Thus, how Christians should be. Not only tell you about how great God is based on our personal experience, but show them how great he is.
So true…so let’s all realize that none of these modern…anti Jewish…anti Zion …idiots have anything of worth
And focus on the eternal truths taught by the Ancient of Days
works is the result of your Faith, otherwise you played a part in your salvation and you would share the glory with Christ. The only part you play in your salvation is that of being in the receiving end and 100% of the Glory is God's
@@carrion826 absolutely…no own could AFFORD one drop of Christ’s blood…but let’s be honest…the vast majority DO NOT follow the Savior in this wicked life…so a faith that doesn’t work for the Master…check out Revelation…our belief is meaningless our obedience is everything…we always forget…satan and demons “believe” much more than any churchgoer…what they don’t do is submit to Christs Rule
@The Light Of Christ I totally agree….both are weird…and that conquest over sin is NEVER OURS….I sin less…and satans attacks are “stunted” more….simply by my proximity…to the Roaring Lion of Judah….as it turns out…whenever I’m IN WORSHIP MODE….satan has no footing…God…INHABITS….the praise of His people
You said that God is a just God, and why would he not offer salvation to all?
Please let me answer that because a lot of people miss this who is in the church today.
Before the beginning of time here on Earth God already had a plan, that's why God lifted up Lucifer in heaven with his own holiness until iniquity was found in him THEN HE WAS CAST DOWN TO THE GROUND WHICH WEAKENED THE NATIONS. ISAIAH 14:12
Why did God not throw Satan directly into hell?
Because he is being used for God's glory here on Earth making it a battlefield as we put on the whole armor of God Ephesians 6:10 17
There are five crowns to earn
Neither one make 100% sense. I choose John 3:16 Jesus Christ is awesome ✝️❤️
My uncle once told me as I struggled with things like this, he said sweat these things once you make it to Heaven. And it helped me clear a path of debris on my road. John 3:16 is the key.
It is unbiblical and foolish to choose one verse out of God's word and scrap the rest, or disregard it, or not endeavor to understand it. You won't find any support for that in scripture.
God's love is _one_ of his many attributes, not his _only_ attribute. Among his attributes are wrath, justice, purity, and righteousness. To pretend love is all that matters is to pretend God is less than who he says he is.
Confusing as it was in Leviticus 25:44, Numbers 31:17 or Exodus 21:20, at times...
Also, if purity was such a major concern, then I am still confused why Satan was in heaven long enough to sway so many angels? Who would not seem to have cause to lack for many things there?
@@matthewdyer2926 Amen!
2 Timothy 2:15 King James Version (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth
John 3:16 does not rule out calvinism. The belief is given by God.
I believe it’s somewhere in the middle, but I also believe it’s something we as man will never be able to fully realize here on earth, and I’m excited to ask the Father this one day.
Me too!!
Amen me too. I don’t think I fall into either.
Agree!
You won't need to ask if you are with the Father. We will know fully then, not in part like we do now Paul said.
I'll go with you!
This was pretty good. I’ve been studying Calvinism for the past couple of months VERY SLOWLY haha it’s a lot to dissect. One of the beautiful things about it I think is that despite my how much of a sinner I was toward a Holy and Righteous God, He displayed such a love toward me He chose to save me when I deserved His wrath. That blows my mind and I can’t help but to praise Him for it!
I encourage you to keep studying it! Read through the Canons of Dort, and read the proof texts :) also other options are from RC Sproul. He has a book called Chosen by God, or if you have the ligonier ministries app, under "teaching series" is about 10 short lectures on predestination. It can be heavy going, but it's worth it. Also find a trusted brother who understands it well to help if you need. The doctrine of election is Biblical, and beautifully assuring!
And i agree wholeheartedly with your summation of our condition and His mercy. Praise Him indeed!
@@danielminchin749 Thank you so much for the encouragement and recommendations! I'll definitely looks these all up!
No worries! God bless in your studies! :)
@@jesseschulz214
Please, remember to study your Bible.Get a believer who will help you dissect those proof texts as God did not choose 'some' for election. He chose people for service.
Thank you so much, Allen. My son definitely leans towards Calvinism and has charged me with learning more about this. And though I’m still learning about this (I have a bit of an opinion so far, but not ready to decide fully yet), your presentation has made the most sense to me so far.
careful. calvinism is no good.
@@crayptonjennings6282 That's your opinion, lol.
I'm surprised to find out that I lean more towards Calvinism. I've been walking with God for 62 years. I never wanted to get in the argument between the two. Cause in my opinion, where there is disagreement over scripture, you will find the enemy much involved. Pick a side, and you have Christians on one side or the other calling you names. Not God-like at all.
My Father believed, OSAS, my mother didn't. She was afraid she could lose her salvation. I attended a Free-will Baptist Church, like they did, till I became a little more charismatic than they liked. I started speaking in tongues, lol.
I decided to believe the scriptures for myself. I am securely held in the hands of Jesus, like He said, and He will not lose me, amen!!!!
The Holy Spirit was given to us to lead us into ALL truth. I suggest you, and your son, get to know Him well, and follow Him. Hear Him. Listen for Him to speak, or, show you things to come. Believe what the Bible says about Him, too. He speaks to you what you need to hear, and in various ways. Through scripture mainly. But, to alert you to danger, He will speak, and you will think you heard Him with your ears, lol.
Seek His guidance in all things, He will show you where, and how, to walk by your spirit man in sync with Him. The gifts of the Holy spirit have not stopped flowing, or, working. It's how He teaches us to walk by our spirit man. Listen with your heart to what the Spirit of God is saying. We are blessed with the Living presence of God, Halelujah!!!! Enjoy Him!!!!
"Ask, and it will be given. Seek, and you will find, Knock, and the door will be opened." God's Words only works when we believe them. We are blessed!!!! .........With all my love, Sandy
@@sandragambrel9721 thank you so much for the deeply caring response, Sandy!
Very clear explanation. I'm more of a Calvinist and I believe God has the total hold of my life and He has the best plan for me, giving me grace and faith to run the race
That’s right. The elect understand because it’s happening in their lives.
Amen this is why we Praise GOD because he loved us and brought us to CHRIST
This is one of those things that many seem to just get really upset about. I’m just over 16 and a half, but like seven months ago I first heard about Reformed Theology and some of the beliefs associated with it and got frustrated. I tried looking up verses I could use to refute people who identify as Calvinists or Reformed. That went on for like a month. Over time, I learned that even though I may disagree with them on some things, that doesn’t mean I should get really mad at them and try to refute all of their beliefs. If any of you are sitting there, being frustrated at the beliefs associated with Calvinism/Reformed theology, just stop and try to calm down. I’d recommend listening to a couple sermons from people who are considered to be Reformed or whatever, so that you could better understand where they are coming from. Thank you for taking your time to read this.
@Sir Isaac Newton You demonstrate a severe lack of biblical literacy my friend. No matter if you are calvinist or arminian, everyone agrees that regeneration-or as you put it “eyes to see”-is a biblical concept. The debate is whether or not this takes place before or after faith. Is it a result of faith, or does faith result from it. Regeneration is described in the Bible as God taking out your heart of stone and giving you a heart of flesh. Through your new heart and new desires you are given the gift of repentance-which means to turn away-and you now desire to do good in the eyes of God; and please Him. The Holy Spirit, the third person in the Trinity, indwells you and over-time conforms you to the image of Christ in a process called sanctification.
Again, all of that is indisputable, arminians and calvinists alike agree with that. The calvinist differs in saying that regeneration precedes faith as prior to regeneration human beings are incapable of having true faith due to their hardened hearts and state of total depravity.
Where the “eyes to see” analogy is represented in the Bible is when Paul received the Holy Spirit and was literally unblinded. Actual scale-like objects fell from his eyes illustrating the blindness of Paul prior to God intervening to regenerate him. Paul’s salvation in the calvinist view is a picture of Christian salvation as a whole; people are walking around blind, self-righteous, & as Paul puts it; dead in their sin. It isn’t until God Himself intervenes and regenerates them-which can be illustrated by an unblinding, or a raising up of a lifeless corpse-that they finally see or come stumbling out of the pit like lazarus.
Straw manning the calvinist position like you did only demonstrates ignorance, as any biblically literate person know that God didn’t create humans blind in sin. Humans are “dead in sin” as Paul says, because of the rebellion of Adam. To claim “God is mean” for damning murderous, lying, thieving, blaspheming creatures from dust; is beyond foolish and practically anti-Christ. Don’t be so quick to judge others when you very obviously aren’t aware of what’s being debated.
@Sir Isaac Newton What you are saying is ridiculous and it’s clear this is a waste of time. Are you insinuating that you are sinless, or are you insinuating that I’m saying that I’m sinless? Either way it’s a laughable statement. God’s Word says that any man who claims he is without sin is a liar in 1 John 1:8. In John 6:44 Jesus says “no one can come to me unless the father draws him” and before you try saying that God draws everyone, go ahead and read the second half of that verse which says “and I will raise him up on the last day” Jesus is clearly saying that not a single person is able to come to Him unless God first draws that person and whoever God draws is going to be raised up on the last day. Therefore God cannot be drawing everyone unless you believe in universalism; which is age-old heresy.
Implying that I hated God and following up with your own good works demonstrates your pride. That’s exactly what the calvinist position is against; believing that you are special, that you are somehow wise enough or kind enough or honorable enough and that’s why God picked you. The Apostle Paul teaches in Romans 3:10-12 that “no man does good, no not one…all have turned away, together they have become worthless”. If I just compare what you say to the Apostle Paul it’s clear that you have a very man-centered worldview whereas calvinism is just the God-centered interpretation of biblical text. If you want to talk about “following the crowd” you should realize that not knowing what you really believe and being ignorant of the historical argument in either direction, most certainly would reflect the majority of professing Christians. Calvinism is by every metric the minority position-id argue because it’s actually biblical-and calvinism has been the punching bag of the modern evangelical church for decades; so I’m not “following the crowd”, brother, you are.
I don’t even think you’re following what I’m saying at all based on your response though. Lastly, I didn’t call you an “Armenian” nor did I call you an arminian, I was just pointing out that the two main positions agree on regeneration…because it’s in the Bible.
@Sir Isaac Newton You have resulted to proof-texting which shows you have no desire to interact with anything I said, meaningfully. If your response to a Scripture is to put it up against other Scriptures then it’s clear you think very little of God’s Word. As a fellow Christian; brother, this is not how you go about understanding God’s word, that is a tit-for-tat argument for the sake of arguing. Don’t believe me? Go watch any scholarly debate on the doctrines of calvinism, you won’t see any serious individuals engaging in that juvenile nonsense. When one person gives an argument in Scripture, his opponent will actually interact and provide his explanation for the same Scripture.
FYI if you had ever interacted with calvinism meaningfully in your life, you’d know the calvinist response to that argument; because it’s a very novice question that you’re proposing. Again, huge waste of time so I’ll end it here.
ruclips.net/video/GzmaaCieVG4/видео.html
@@tjs.5044 I have been trying to get a fix on whether Calvinism or Armenian. I would like you to know you gave a very succinct reply to @Newton. I have listened to many preachers and teachers on this matter. What I couldn't understand was why he would send someone to hell. I was getting hung up on that issue. As you pointed out, all men are going to hell. God will grace whom he wishes or have compassion on whom he will (I know I didn't get the verse right). Man, on his own, can't break away from sin. It is through the grace of God that whomever is saved is saved. So, God isn't sending anyone to hell who isn't going there anyway. Thank you TSJ. I can now spend my time on bearing more fruit.
I praise God that we don’t have to make a decision on this issue in order to be saved, we don’t even have to think about it, but it is interesting to discuss and debate.
We do have to make a decision Breanna
Josh Burt - Why?
Breanna T Because Jesus comes to knock our door and stand in front of our heart, but we have the choice of opening the door or not (and He blesses everyone that decides to do so). You do have a point though: salvation is not earned; salvation is a gift from God Father. Blessings, and don't forget to consult with the Holy Spirit if you have more questions; it always works 🙌🏼
@@christianvillafana9841 Answered better than I could of, God bless you brother.
@Josh Burt God blesses you for making the first statement 🙏🏼
You are so right on Allen! You are amazing at breaking it down. Also it was cool because I'd have to say I definitely lean more towards Calvinism but yes ultimately we simply will never, at least in this body know for sure. Faith is such a gift and it's just so amazing to hear you and others speak about the Lord and know that we know He is alive and real and our Father!! God Bless you all!!!
Amém brother God bless you 🙏🏾♥️
Amen
I don't believe that we can never know. The Bible is pretty specific that Jesus died for the whole world (every man) and not just SOME. Also, the Bible says that God overlooked sin, but since Jesus' death and resurrection God commands ALL men EVERYWHERE to repent and believe. Calvinism is definitely a false Gospel. Calvinism builds a false gospel on doctrine but the Word tells us that we can only build on the foundation that is the Gospel. Also, why does 1 Timothy 2: 1-5 tell us to pray for all men because God desires that all men come to the knowledge of the truth? Calvinism excludes praying for the salvation of some. We are not supposed to consider anyone a brother or sister in Christ who teaches a false gospel because they are lost
So, what about those of us who believe and profess and study the Bible but do not feel a part of the "elect" orchosen ones. Does that mean that God doesn't want us and we will go to hell? Since we were created to go there, there is nothing we can do about it?
Very ignorant to what "The world" and "pray for all men" truly means, do your research.
I feel like it’s a little bit of both
50/50
Holy Spirit chooses people
But it’s up to us to worship the Father and trust in the Son
John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” But we do need the spirit to worship :p Born again christian here
@@LeonardoDeValen you are born again because God gave you a new spirit in Christ which is life .and hence we worship God in spirit and truth. ..we do not Born again ourselve but it's God who gave us new spirit which is born of God
@@pskima4274 yes, truth
@HillDueceua Yahweh gives those
@HillDueceua not because you ask , it has nothing to do with you at all. God simply chose to whomever it will be given. He gave the truth to whoever he elects. .. because we receive grace not because we believe but it is freely given either you have faith or not...
Having faith makes you understand/acknowledge that you are children of God. Having understood the truth , you get confirm that you are now saved in Christ. You are freed . You are no longer a sinner .God will no longer condenmed you. Your unrighteous ways are made righteous. Blameless before God ..
God is the one who does the work. You simply do nothing , just believe him in all ways you do. You are just a vessel.. God is the potter and you are the clay.. He will design you according to his will , not yours. . So be thankful to God that now you know the truth ... Bible is the word and the truth of God... You will know more if you read it ... But be warn! since many Christian communities / churches teaches works rather grace. And I'm sure many have been brain washed by the lies of religion and men's teachings ... You can only rely Bible. Men are a natural liar.
I literally prayed that you’d speak about this
Ciridan 1 praise God! Glad He answered the prayer!
It's funny cause I was hoping he would make a video about this one day as well.
Was just recently praying about this as well because it affects how I evangelize.
I also saw a video about this today but some of my questions were unanswered and now they are.
@@thebeatagp ... Again, you need to provide a historical
perspective whenever you discuss this subject and explain that the
heresy of Arminianism did not evolve until about 1500 years AFTER
the Bible was finished - and it was NOT the traditional teaching of
the early church or of Jesus or of the Apostles.
------------
You also need to emphasis that Arminianism contradicts MANY
different Scriptures - which is why it was declared heresy when
first promoted - while sovereign Grace has NO contradictions
in the Bible... only misunderstandings based on CONTEXT.
Which can usually be understood by realizing that the church
consists of many unsaved "tares/goats" and relatively few
saved "wheat/sheep/saints"... so many passages are ONLY
talking about the saints (brothers) and not the unsaved "tares".
Context means everything child.
------------------
Both make points I agree and disagree with. My problem with Calvinism is that I can't understand if it's God's will that all be saved and come to know Him (1Timothy 2:4) then why would God only choose some and not save the rest? . He does not want anyone to be destroyed, but wants everyone to repent. (2 Peter 3:9) If God wants ALL to have eternal life in heaven then why aren't we all forced to be saved and believe? Plus the Bible tells us that God is a fair God. It doesn't sound like a fair God if He's not giving us the chance to come to Him. On the other hand the problem I have with arminanism is that t don't believe you can lose your salvation once you're saved because "He will never leave or forsake you" Heb 13:5. At the end of the day I just trust Jesus and His Word cause I learned no matter what that we will always have questions and that's ok.
My opinion on your point about Calvinism is this. Yes. God wants all to be saved. And He does come into everyone's lives to attempt to save them. But we do have free will. So basically, God knows our hearts, and He knows if we will follow His will or not. So my opinion is that, it's not that God doesn't want all of us in heaven. He just knows our true hearts and what we will ultimately choose in our free will.
And I totally agree with you on your second point. Once saved always saved. Because if you are truly saved, I don't see how you can go back to life without God. Once you experience His love and grace, to me, it's impossible to go back to that old life.
And to add to my second point. Jesus died for all, so we could all be forgiven. Once you accept that Jesus is Lord and He died for us. You're saved. We all still stumble and sin and get off track. If we lost salvation everytime we stumbled, we'd be in trouble.
Instead of losing our salvation. God grows us even more mature in our walk through our mistakes and sins. So it's actually the opposite.
God desires all to be saved, but He doesn't force everyone to believe because He wants us to choose Him. If you are forced to love, is it really love?
Exactly what I believe. It doesn't make sense to me that we don't have free will. I think it's more than just a Calvinism or arminanism belief. God's love is beyond our understanding and His love is perfect and eternal life is a gift that WE have to accept. I just don't believe that all of us are forced to love God. But regardless of what who believes on this subject the important thing is that Jesus is the way to salvation and that's what we are really supposed to believe.
I do agree with you John. Calvinism makes no sense. I think God does a lot of work outside of our control and helps us when we are thinking incorrectly. So, once a Child of God, I think we have free will but limited somewhat because God will help us. In other words, God knows better than we do about certain decisions. Another scripture to point this out is if you obey my commands, I will deliver you out of that day of temptation. So, that reduces free will somewhat because of ignorance, we will get tempted. Just my thoughts.
Thank you for the comparison between Calvinism and Arminianism. It was presented in a very clear way. I especially love the conclusion…there are things we will never (until the end of times) understand. Thank goodness for faith.
THANK YOU for going over this very important topic. I appreciate your teaching ministry.
Since you did ask your audience what we think, I will briefly share.
With respects to both points of view, I truly believe that when we read and study the Scriptures, that for a person to come to a place of conviction and accept Christ as Savior and become Born Again, the Scriptures teach that it requires the work of the Holy Spirit / the work of God and the willingness of a person to surrender to that truth.
I also believe that the Scriptures teach that God's heart and mind towards mankind is that all would come to repentance and receive His grace and gifts and that God loves mankind so much and wants people to come into the true knowledge of who He is, that He made Himself more known to the world through sending His one and only son into our world.
Pastor Charles Butindaro
"At the heart of the controversies between Calvinism and Arminianism is the emphasis on the sovereignty of God by the Calvinists and on the sovereignty (free will) of man - or human responsibility - by the Arminians. Calvinism emphasizes that God is in total control of everything and that nothing can happen that He does not plan and direct, including man’s salvation. Arminianism teaches that man has free will and that God will never interrupt or take that free will away, and that God has obligated Himself to respect the free moral agency and capacity of free choice with which He created us. Both doctrinal positions are reasonable and both have extensive Scriptures to back them up. Both are, in our opinion, both partially right and partially overextended. As Philip Schaff has put it, "Calvinism emphasized divine sovereignty and free grace; Arminianism emphasized human responsibility. The one restricts the saving grace to the elect; the other extends it to all men on the condition of faith. Both are right in what they assert; both are wrong in what they deny. If one important truth is pressed to the exclusion of another truth of equal importance, it becomes an error, and loses its hold upon the conscience. The Bible gives us a theology which is more human than Calvinism and more divine that Arminianism, and more Christian than either of them." Certainly, the Bible does teach that God is sovereign, and that believers are predestined and elected by God to spend eternity with Him. Nowhere, however, does the Bible ever associate election with damnation. Conversely, the Scriptures teach that God elects for salvation, but that unbelievers are in hell by their own choice. Every passage of the Bible that deals with election deals with it in the context of salvation, not damnation. No one is elect for hell. The only support for such a view is human logic, not Biblical revelation (which John Calvin did teach). The concept of total depravity is consistent with Scripture, but the doctrine of limited atonement, that Jesus did not die for the sins of the whole world, is clearly contrary to Biblical teaching. The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus died for everyone’s sins and that everyone is able to be saved if they will repent and turn to Christ. Limited atonement is a non-Biblical doctrine. This classic debate, we believe, can only be resolved by recognizing that God is outside our domain of time. The great insight of modern physics is the discovery that time is a physical property. Since God is not bound by the restrictions of our physical existence, He is not someone who has "lots of time," but rather One who is outside our domain of time altogether. While we have complete freedom of choice - within our dimensionality of time - He is outside of that domain and He alone knows the end from the beginning. Thus, it is a courtship between two sovereignties. Election and predestination are Biblical doctrines. God knows everything and therefore He cannot be surprised by anything. He is beyond the constraints of mass, acceleration and gravity, therefore He is outside time. He knows, and has known from “eternity past,” who will exercise their free will to accept Him and who will reject Him. The former are “the elect” and the latter are the “non-elect.” Everyone who is not saved will have only himself to blame: God will not send anyone to hell, but many people will choose to go there by exercising their free will to reject Christ. On the other hand, no one who is saved will be able to take any of the credit. Our salvation is entirely God’s work, and is based completely on the finished work of the Cross. We were dead in trespasses and sins, destined for hell, when God in His grace drew us to Himself, convinced us of our sin and our need for a Savior, and gave us the authority to call Jesus Lord. Is this grace, this wooing, this courtship, irresistible? No, we have free will and we can (and do) resist, even to the damnation of our souls, but God does everything short of making us automata (preprogrammed puppets) to draw us into His forever family."
-Chuck Missler
You, sir, are THE MAN! Such a beautiful and fully thought out explanation. Thank you, brother.
You can't have two sovereigns. Where does the bible say you have free will? Nowhere. Where does the bible say man is sovereign? Nowhere. Where does the bible say God is Sovereign? All over the place! I believe what it says, not what it doesn't.
@@Phill0old when Adam and Eve willfully disobeyed God.
@@stevenknapp2850 So it doesn't say it but you are just going to lie? Ok. Is that your usual method? Not very Christian is it? What next? Will you prove I have a white cat by proving I have a cat? Yes, man has a will, man does not have a free will. I have a cat, it is not a white cat. Proving I have a cat doesn't prove it is white.
@@Phill0old it doesn't say it but what they did shows it. They ate the fruit after God told them not to. And calm down buddy just having a discussion.
Why would we ever "choose" God? Man is so depraved and in sin.. we are not capable of choosing God. I praise God that He chose me despite my sin. What unfathomable grace.
And yet salvation is only offered to those that choose to believe. Christ died so that those in the world to beleive in him and have the opportunity to believe in him. It would be stupid for him to offer such a blessing to all, SAY that it is for all to hear and receive/reject, only to cross his fingers behind his back and say "just kidding this is only for the cool kids forget everyone else".
@@jazzb3371 So salvation is up to you?
@@reformedcatholic457 Not necessarily. Christ provided the only means to salvation, and the voice of the Holy Spirit is audible to those who wish to receive him. However, we still must choose who we will serve. Whether that be life or death, truth or a lie. That is the gift and burden each of us have been introduced to with Christ. That is why we must preach the gospel. To let others know they have the choice to be free from sin through Christ. Salvation is not earned or created by my power. If it were, the gospel would be a lie. However, I must have a role in this salvation, to accept the gift I have been given. God cannot foist it on me, nor can I be involved in it without knowing. It must be absolute on both ends. I must seek to know God as he has sought to know each and every one of us.
@@jazzb3371 But God can't save you without you, so salvation is a cooperation of both man and God.
Here is a question for you, what do you do with the text that states Paul was God's chosen instrument or vessel in Acts 9:15?
@@reformedcatholic457 Thats what I'm saying. Though God chooses us, we must be receptive to his choosing. Those who he foreknew are the ones he knew would already choose him. Because remember, it is God's will that all be saved, and that all be provided with the opportunity. So those those who are picked are not randomly selected for no reason, but that they would eventually come to him.
Wonderful video, you are a huge blessing brother, you keep everything in line with scriptural support throughout the video and still leave it to the viewer to make there own decision. Thank you!
What choice does he have but to "leave it up the viewer to make their own decision."? (Which by the way is what he doesn't believe we can do.)
Very difficult topic and one that will never be settled by either group until the Church is in glory.
Agreed
Come on people this one is easy. It's both. God is Sovereign and he chooses me and it's a free gift that all I have to do is reach out and take it. Elements of both. Is like how can Jesus be God and man at the same time. He's both. Not 50% man, 50% God... but 100% man and 100% God. God is Sovereign God did choose me. But he desires the entire human race to be saved not just an elect few. Of course he knows the future and he knows who he chose. Both... keyword both.
@@garyg7549 thx for the explanation "both" ! , tq very much
Easy topic anyone who does not agree with God YHVH that they are totally depraved cannot be forgiven and redeemed.
You being stupid and cowardly to not pick a side is irrelevant.
@@garyg7549 no 🤦
"Dead men dont grab"
Well said! I fall somewhere between because the Bible does teach elements of both. Anytime humans try to reason out or try to tie up everything into a nice little bow, they fall woefully short. God doesn't fit into a box, and thank goodness for that!!
Nice! I think this is how I'ma respond to this never ending on going debate from now on!
Both views contradict each other so logically they cannot both be true or have some truth from both. Also what do you mean by putting God in a box? We can know things about God based on what he has revealed to us in scripture.
Exactly! We can’t begin to fully comprehend God while we’re here on earth.
@@drishtilakhani4842 I agree that we can't FULLY comprehend God but that doesn't mean that we can't understand and clearly know certain things about God. Not everything but some things we CAN know and understand, the things that he has revealed to us about himself through the scriptures. While on this earth we aren't called to FULLY and perfect understand everything but we can certainly understand certain things to a point where we don't just give up and say "it's just a mystery" or "no one really knows" or "the answer is both, they are both true," etc.
thedarlingdiva me too. I think both of them are in the Bible, but both Calvin and Arminius both put it in the extreme in their interpretation
Allen, you did a great job putting things in perspective. Thank you.
He did a terrible job. His presentation of Arminianism was quite misleading.
In the beginning of the video, you urged us all to think about this issue according to what the Bible actually says, not what we think is logical or what we feel. That, my friend, is why I trust your teaching so much. You teach the Scriptures. This channel is a literal answer to years of my prayers for practical, sound teaching. I’m so grateful to God!
He is Born Again for sure.
I'm NOT a calvinist, but God choose us, not we Him! The Bible is FULL of verses about the Sovereignity of the Lord, He is OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENT, OMNIPOTENT and He is my Savior - Yeshua Christ, Not alah or krishna or other "gods"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God bless you Continually Sis!
@@vijdamvsichko9077 So God might not want me?
@@Lemon-sc2yq Yes, but if you believe in His Holy Son you HAVE Eternal Life😏😌
YHWH YESHUA bless you and your loved ones, Amen.🤝✝
@@vijdamvsichko9077 I'm trying to seek God and figure out what he wants me to do so that I may be with him, because I have experienced a lot of confusion with religions and expressed some doubts on whether or not this is something God would even want to help me with, as you can probably see in my past comment.
I don't know, my spiritual life is a work in progress right now, but I've had some tell me that this concern shows that I am one of the elect, but I don't know.
Also, does the elect thing mean that God chooses to send people to hell and also chooses to not like some? Are there some who desire truth and don't get it because they're not one of the elect? Also, are there some born again Christians not going to heaven because they are not of the elect?
Why did Eve choose to sin if there is no free will, the downfall of humanity was planned by God?
I'm sorry if I seem harsh but these are genuine questions of mine and I hope you see this. Nonetheless, thank you for your original response.
@@Lemon-sc2yq Do you believe that JESUS is the CHRIST?
Do you believe that He is the Son of God?
Who is JESUS?
A/ Angel B/ Human C / God the LORD
Shalom.
As long as you know without a doubt that ur saved , ( It doesn’t matter how you came to believe ) but that you came to believe...✅
But it is good to know God, all by himself brought you, that we might give him ALL THE GLORY. There certainly is a reason why he gave us the scriptures, and told us so much as to why and how we are saved. It certainly appears everywhere in the scriptures that God dies indeed care about it.
@@timothydodenhoff1068
The important thing is that one is saved by believing on Christ's Finished Work. We are to preach the Gospel persuasively as if man was capable of coming to Christ of their own freewill but when they do come, we know it was God actually making them willing. Salvation is of the Lord from start to finish, all of Grace, all of Christ and all received by faith alone. It is possible for one to know about and affirm the doctrines of Grace without having the Grace of the doctrines. Better to be the other way round of course but best that we have both.
You should be living in “fear and trembling” as described somewhere in the bible but I can’t remember where. Of course, when you are know you’re chosen, you’ll naturally be much more peaceful
'...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling' (Philippians 2:12, NKJV). Note that it's a working out from a position of having already been saved, not a working for. The only way we know we are chosen is to rely on Christ's death, burial and resurrection on our behalf and the Spirit will bear witness to us that we have peace with God having been justified by faith and taking God at His Word. A great and wonderful position to be in. Much blessing to you.
If you feel convicted of your sine and grateful Christ's redemption, then you are saved. But it's a feeling, not a formula.
For God so love the world that he gave his oly begotten son that whosever believeth in him will be saved!
Calvinism goes against God’s character don’t you think?
@@andrewdescant4996 who are you to answer back to God
Yes and if I said “ whosoever runs a marathon will be tired” that doesn’t mean everyone will run a marathon does it. If you have the ability to believe in God (Given by God).
Scripture says it’s impossible to chose God and call on his name without God making you
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
@@andrewdescant4996 Ephesians 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will- 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In
Is this verse obvious or not
@@christianlove5003 I’m an Arminian and I think Calvinism is outrageous. Purposely picking people to go to hell without a chance.
Just prior to my 17th birthday God plucked me out of darkness. I was not seeking Him. I was not responding to scripture or someone's teaching. God simply drew me to Himself and with the help of a believer I bowed my knee and trusted Jesus as my Savior. It was as if God was doing everything and I had very little if anything to do with it. Although I did not see lights or hear a voice it was similar to the conversion of Paul in that one moment I was completely lost in darkness and the next moment I was literally a new creation. I was completely changed and have never looked back since as I continue to seek to know and serve my King. Early on when I would share my testimony someone would say, "that sounds like Calvinism." I had no idea what that was but as I grew in my knowledge of the Bible it confirmed that I was indeed chosen and by God's grace alone He gave me the faith to believe. On my own I would have never turned to God as I was as lost as a human can be. Thank you Lord for choosing me and doing for me what I could not do on my own. I'm forever grateful!
Btw... this was brilliantly presented. Such a complex issue, broken down in a simple, straight forward way. Excellent!
I think Martin Luther provided a key to this subject in his weighty book, "The Bondage of the Will." We have a will. It is a real will. We make real decisions. But our will is in bondage to sin. We are lost and helpless, dead in our trespasses and sins. This is true of every human being. Jesus said it: " "No one can [is able to] come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day." By God's sovereign gracious choice, He awakens the will to the beauty of Christ and the Gospel, then the awakened soul embraces Christ and is sealed in Him by the Spirit. "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." John 1:12-13
Yes!
James Montgomery Boice also has 3 ten minute youtube segments on it.
Without understanding the bondage of the will a person has no understanding of anything including themselves
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Did God choose the lost to go to hell? No, Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Paul explains in Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
People go to hell bc of the Judgement and punishment for sin. Who sinned? Adam as it was passed to all of us.
The RESCUE of the Elect
John 17:2 As thou hast given him (Christ) power over all flesh, that he (Christ) should give eternal life to as many as thou (God) hast given him (Christ).
John 17:9 I pray for them (the 11 apostles): I pray not for the world, but for them (the Elect) which thou hast given me (Christ); for they are thine.
John 17:16 They (the 11) are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these (the 12) alone, but for them (the Elect) also which shall believe on me through their (the 11 + Paul that wrote in the Bible) word;
John 17:24 Father, I will that they (the 11) also, whom thou hast given me (the Elect), be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
God opened our eyes by the Holy Ghost that we will see the truth....
John 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Christ bought us as we our a gift from God to His Son.
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Corinthians 7:23-24 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
Man's responsibility for sin
Matthew 12:35-37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Romans 14:11-12 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
IF GOD PREDESTINED THE LOST TO HELL THEN BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE IS UNJUST. MORAL MAN WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS SINS.
All were doomed to hell for what Adam did so in the love and mercy of God, He rescued the Elect through the blood of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. "I CHOSE Christ will never be a factor before the Judgement Seat of Christ.
GLORY, GLORY, GLORY for saving me from hell for I have done nothing to deserve the love and mercy of God. Out of LOVE and MERCY, God RESCUED US from HELL.
Salvation is of the Lord. Period. If you have ANY work in the salvation of your own soul, then you have reason to boast.
I believe He forknew that He was going to elect some to salvation. Yes he controls everything with perfect timing!
Faith is NOT a work by the way... THats just Bible teaching... NO boast in believing...
@@aleguitarra Faith is not work but it is a gift from God.
@@jpri5216 That´s not Biblical dear brother... Salvation is a gift for those who believes... Faith is human response to the gospel... Faith is not merit or deserves salvation but God wants to save those who believe... that´s what Bible teaches...
@@jpri5216 Listen to this study... then take your own conclusions... God bless you
ruclips.net/video/oxakEl8BYBE/видео.html
I'm not an Arminian, but I believe we have free will
Calvinists believe in free will too. Any person has free will to be a slave to their sin or a slave to Christ. Check into that. It’s the key to understanding.
Yes, we have free will, but our free will is aligned with God's predetermined plan.
This is a great blessing. Imagine if our free will was indeed our own? Madness !
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
John 6:44
this verse won me over to the calvinist side
"And I, If I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." John 12:32
"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." ~2 Peter3:8-10
Christ died for ALL!
Nice presentation. John MacArthur has preached on this extensively. He presents an excellent message called Twin Truths, God’s Sovereignty and Man’s Responsibility. Go to Grace to you and search sermons by scripture specifically John chapter three to find this message.
Joel Matchett exactly. Case closed. 👍🏼
@@musicsmuse09 2 things. Go back and read John 6:40. And also do not build a doctrine or embrace a doctrine that has multiple points with no biblical support, only logical deduction.
Hey, Allen. Thanks for opening up this topic. It is something that I have been struggling through for the last 30 or so years and I still haven't come to what I think is an adequate understanding. I have found that many people pick their side in this issue based on their own opinions and personal beliefs rather than on Scripture. It's like Neo in the Matrix when Morpheus asked him if he believed in fate. Neo said that he didn't believe in fate because he didn't like the idea that he's not in control of his life. Neo didn't believe in fate because he didn't like it.
We as Christians must believe what we believe, not because we like it but because it's what God says in his revealed word to us. Through the years, I have tried to go back to the Scriptures over and over to carefully study and understand what God is saying in these different passages.
Most people tend to like the idea of free will and that we can freely choose or reject God but the Bible never portrays us as being free in any significant way. Paul says in Romans 6 that we were slaves of sin before we were saved and then we became slaves of righteousness after we were saved. We didn't have a free will.
In this video, you quoted John 3:16 "... that whosoever believes in him..." The use of the word "whosoever" kind of makes it sound like the salvation call goes out to everyone and "whosoever" hears it and believes it is saved and will not perish. It kinda sounds like the bait on a hook that is thrown out into the water and the fisherman waits to see who bites. But the verse would be better translated "... that all who are believing in him..." This means that those who believe in him will be saved and those who don't, won't. But it's not a "Let's say this and see who accepts it" kind of thing. The believing ones are saved. The unbelieving ones are not.
There are many more scriptures that we need to study very carefully to come to a biblical understanding. I'm still working on it but, like you, I'm leaning much more toward the "Calvinist" camp.
Please continue to deal with this issue. As another person already said on this page, having an adequate understanding of this issue is not necessary in order to be saved, but I believe that a better understanding of it will help us to appreciate even more what an amazing salvation we have that God has so wonderfully given to us in his precious Son, Jesus.
If God chose who would be saved, then why did He not choose everyone?
@@Rose-cx9iz This is exactly why I currently do not identify with Calvin theology. Unconditional election seems quite weird. I don’t understand why God wouldn’t give all of His children the chance of salvation
@@jayleenv.7975 It really is an offence to the natural mind... but "how unsearchable are His ways and unfathomable are His Judgements" Romans 11:33 this caused Paul to worship God.. he didn't for a minute compromise the Sovereign election of God in Romans 9:18 and verses following... the truth is we all deserve God's wrath and judgemet... but I am so glad He chose me because I was lost... lost and truly deserved His wrath.. that's why with Paul, I can only say "Oh the depth of the riches both of the knowledge and wisdom of God !
Jayleen, here is a great explanation by John Piper on Romans 9 ruclips.net/video/Vuv8lnbNXrs/видео.html
@@jayleenv.7975 Because He is God. How would He demonstrate that He hates sin and punish it? How would then also demonstrate that He is full mercy at the same time?
How would He also demonstrate Sovereignty.
He is all knowing.
He knows the end from the beginning.
He knows the beginning from the end.
He determines the outcome as He is the potter and we are the clay. St Paul made it clear in Roman's 9.
Romans 10 suggests that Man also needs to work out his salvation.
Now the question is, was it Paul that wrote the book of Romans or God?
Answer. 100% Paul and 100% God.
How is that possible?
This is the reason the scripture is true. Because if it were to be written by Man, he would have either solved the puzzle or removed these passages from the scripture.
I believe in calvinism.
John 17, Jesus's prayer subtly reveals God's Sovereignty on Salvation
I’m sure many people tell you, you look like Denzel Washington lol 🙏
Shirley Girl lol. I get that all the time!
lol I was waiting for someone else to say this, so I could like the comment.
Doppelganger. Lol
I don't see it.
@@jayvansickle7607 Seriously? 😂😂
The biggest issue of Calvinism, and the Idea of pre determination lies with in the discussion of moral responsibility. If God determined our choices ahead of time and determined what we would do, and where we would go then he also determined mass murder, rape, child mutilation etc. even the some odd 50-60 scriptures that Calvinism uses to determine it’s stance, when taken in the whole context of where the scripture is taken from, shows that God desires that all would step in to heaven, and that he had readily made that choice available to us. God can be both the ultimate authority over us, and still in his sovereignty allow us to choose weather we would follow him.
1 John 2:19 (ESV)
19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." ......This explains the Perseverance of the saints
I am so grateful for your ministry and that you did this video specifically. I was raised Armenian without even knowing that's what it was. After getting married and my new husband and I looking for a church home in our new town we came across a wonderful church family who happened to be calvinist. We had no idea what it was so in a small group we were invited to we studied John Piper on TULIP. Everything started clicking. The scriptures we had been simply reading over our whole lives now had so much more understanding. God truly worked through our church family and his word to reveal his truths. Somethings take time to understand and wrestle with but God is ok with debate he is here for us to answer those questions that we have.
Congratulations, you became indoctrinated! Nobody comes to this conclusion on their own.....
I believe both beliefs have some level of Scriptural truth.
Great video though my brother.
I know many Christians that are Calvinists, and I know many Christians who are Armenians. Christians vary in regards to whether they believe in Calvinism or Armenianism. This is an excellent video. Keep up the great work with your videos.
I believe neither predestination and free will are mutually exclusive.
Our free will in no way has to challenge the sovereignty of God. Proverbs 16:9 “The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.”
Daniel Reed
Look into compatabilism :)
Daniel Reed - Listen to Kairi B. The type of free will you speak of is probably a libertarian account of free will, which is mutually exclusive with predestination.
So, God perhaps does not define "free" the way we do?
Darin Struble - What?
It’s not hard to understand.
God’s Sovereignty is based on man’s free will.
When our ancestors ate from the forbidden tree God commanded them not to eat. What happened? It brought forth separation from God and death to humanity.
When Pharoah refused to release the Israelites from captivity under the Egyptians, what happened?
God hardened his heart and sent 10 plagues on him and his land.
When Moses told the Israelites to not go into the land of Canaan because of their disobedience, what happened?
God wasn’t with them and they were scattered by the Amalekites and the Canaanites
When the nation of Israel refused Christ’s salvation message? What happened. Paul went to the Gentiles to provoke his fellow Jews to Jealousy.
I can go on and on. God doesn’t force humans to love Him nor does He let us walk over Him. It’s all evened out.
He gives a choice to either accept His gift of salvation or not. As far as this life goes your free to do whatever
God is still in control but He also can’t lie.
If you believed you’re saved and sealed till the day of redemption Ephesians 1:13
Been a Calvinist since 2010, when the Lord chose to have mercy on me and save me! I thank God for choosing a wretched sinner like me and resurrecting me in Him!!!
Keep trusting God Nina, he's more important than any name we can give our beliefs.
Jesus will lead you
Calvinism is not Christian.
@@golightly5121 how so?
@@borispecirep6259 : Another Gospel, salvation by election.
The words choose, calling and elect are to service, never to salvation.
The problem I have with all such conversations is that they become solely about God's power versus man's. God's will vs. man's. Salvation becomes treated as if it were something apart from a relationship with God. God initiates, he loved us first, he chose to come and make restoration possible while we were still his enemy, and he stands at the door and knocks. Then he waits for our response to the invite. Will we choose to open the door and ask him in? Will we choose to accept his love and learn to love him in return. That is our part, we are free to choose to accept or refuse. It is God's work and man's response. The two go hand in hand.
Perhaps there is an alternative to being either a Calvinist or Arminian. Perhaps there is a middle ground that is closer the truth. One that sees this not in terms of God's sovereignty vs man's free will, but of a loving and relational God wanting our love and a relationship with us and not a mere follower of the rules. Which seems to be the main thing Jesus kept telling the Pharisees.
Thank you for posting this interesting video.
Merry Christmas.
nice comment and a merry Christmas to you
Thank you. Merry Christmas. @@francisfreeman2283
Same right here bruh
I’m glad I looked through the comments to make sure if someone had already said what I was thinking... and bingo! It was you haha.
Exactly! God is much bigger and certainly more complex than a black or white explanation. If His word indicates that both are true then guess what, both are true. For me, it's simple: Jesus died for the sins of the world. We can accept it or deny it. Those that accept it are saved and those that reject it are not.
great video. the one thing that was a problem was that you always said calvin said. calvin actually just summarized what the reformed church held too. great video
This comment section will be college dorm at 2am. Lol.
Pastor Landon lol. Yes it probably will. Lots of opinions on this one for sure.
Lmbo! For real though! I can see it from both sides tbh...Lord help me, it's tough to pick a side haha! Although I will say that I sway more toward the Calvinism even though Arminianism does make some good points :)
Pastor Landon
, quote: _"This comment section will be college dorm at 2am."_
A "college dorm" discussion would be excellent. My view is a bit 'nerdy' and differs from both Calvinism and Arminianism.
In my view God exists 'outside' of time which would explain why some some prophecies are stated in the 'past tense'. The equation *E = MC2 says that TIME slows as you approach the speed of light.* If you put that on a graph then it's easy to show that at the speed of light TIME drops to zero. Stated another way _"there is no time at the speed of light."_
I'm trying to say that God can tell you that the bridge is out...but 'you' make the adjustment or ignore it.
@@thebeatagp ... yes but the TRADITIONAL doctrine,
the doctrine taught by Jesus and the Apostles and early church
was that of sovereign Grace (without works).... that repentance
was the RESULT of regeneration and not the CAUSE of it.
---------
So any "opinion" on Arminianism is something that was declared
heresy as soon as it was introduced - around 1500 after the Bible
was finished, around 1500 years after these doctrines were known.
------------
To ignore that reality is to remain "willfully ignorant" of facts
and history. And WHY would anyone want to remain ignorant
of the facts and history (reality)?
----------
😂😂😂
I'm neither. I simply believe God's Word with the understanding of Holy Spirit and know I'm the creation not the Creator therefore , I'm okay without knowing absolutely everything. For His Spirit confirms with mine that I am His child.
It's not His will that any perish but there are people who do reject Him. No man will have an excuse though ...the gospel is simple but people add their doctrine and complicate it. We are not to lean on our own understanding. His thoughts are not our thoughts , His ways are not our ways.
My question is why argue?
You're either sure and have that confirmation from Holy Spirit or you don't...
💯💥📖🙏for it is written: the Spirit confirms with our spirit that we are the children of God.
Jesus said, to enter Heaven, you must be born again aka spiritually speaking.
Jesus also said, "I am the truth, the way, and the life. Nobody gets to the Father except through Me.
Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the grave, and you shall be saved.
He made Him who knew no sin become sin for us. So that we might become the righteousness of God.
Notice the word "might"?
There's a broad path and narrow, the narrow few will travel...
The narrow leads to life, the broad leads to destruction.
Amen ♡♡ i think these theologies causes division.
@@shinaejzhang7891 to be teacher or preacher or pastor or prist is the dangerous work because it lead to everlasting dustraction or life
1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
Did God choose the lost to go to hell? No, Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Paul explains in Romans 5:12-14 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
People go to hell bc of the Judgement and punishment for sin. Who sinned? Adam as it was passed to all of us.
The RESCUE of the Elect
John 17:2 As thou hast given him (Christ) power over all flesh, that he (Christ) should give eternal life to as many as thou (God) hast given him (Christ).
John 17:9 I pray for them (the 11 apostles): I pray not for the world, but for them (the Elect) which thou hast given me (Christ); for they are thine.
John 17:16 They (the 11) are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:20 Neither pray I for these (the 12) alone, but for them (the Elect) also which shall believe on me through their (the 11 + Paul that wrote in the Bible) word;
John 17:24 Father, I will that they (the 11) also, whom thou hast given me (the Elect), be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
God opened our eyes by the Holy Ghost that we will see the truth....
John 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
Christ bought us as we our a gift from God to His Son.
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Corinthians 7:23-24 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
Man's responsibility for sin
Matthew 12:35-37 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Romans 14:11-12 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
IF GOD PREDESTINED THE LOST TO HELL THEN BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE IS UNJUST. MORAL MAN WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR HIS SINS.
All were doomed to hell for what Adam did so in the love and mercy of God, He rescued the Elect through the blood of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast. "I CHOSE Christ will never be a factor before the Judgement Seat of Christ.
GLORY, GLORY, GLORY for saving me from hell for I have done nothing to deserve the love and mercy of God. Out of LOVE and MERCY, God RESCUED US from HELL.
I believe salvation is something GOD did for everyone.
Something my Dad has said is that he has called everyone but only some will answer and I believe most will not.
Tim Martin Bingo
But is it biblical though? I mean that sounds like universalism. The question is, what does the bible teach?
Except Romans 8:28-30 says that those whom He called, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. So either God hasn't called everyone, or everyone is called, and therefore everyone will be conformed to the image of Christ...aka universalism, which is obviously not Biblical. And it would be odd for Paul to say "those whom He called" if there wasn't also a group that were not called. Why say "those whom He called" if everyone is called?
God tells us many places in His Word that His will is going to be accomplished. If He died for everyone and not everyone chooses Him, then His will is not going to be accomplished like He tells us it will. But Jesus says that all that the Father has given Him will come to Him. Jesus also tells us that no one can snatch us out of His hand, so it comforts us knowing that because He is faithful, we can't lose our salvation. If it was up to us to keep ourselves saved then we would all lose our salvation.
@@SamOwenI Universalism teaches all men can be saved regardless of what happens. Arminianism teaches limited election based on God's foreknowledge of who will accept or reject the call for repentance.
1 Timothy 2:4 "God desires all men to be saved and to come to the full knowledge of the truth"
Matthew 23:37 ""Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing."
You are one of the best and brilliant teachers on the Bible I’ve ever heard! I love your videos! Yes, I think exactly the same on this subject! I’ve preached here and in other countries and seen many miracles and healings and salvations. I come from a very evangelistic group and believe in “telling everyone about Jesus! But a long time ago, when I was leading street outreaches and preaching on street corners, my pastor told me something. He said “Fred, God doesn’t pour his spirit out on everybody”. I tripped out on that word! What do you mean? I think I sort of understood it when I was 20! But pioneering and pastoring (the experience) taught me, or rather drove home the truth that Jesus said “Upon this rock (God) I WILL BUILD MY CHURCH and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it”. God is the one who saves and we are only tools in His hand to bring it to pass! Hallelujah brother! Keep up the great teaching! In heaven we will finally know every mystery.
Good video overall but I am an Arminian and would like to add a couple thoughts.
1. Arminians do not believe we "muster up enough faith to believe". We believe in "prevenient grace" which means man is totally depraved, God draws him with grace and "gives" man the opportunity to reject or receive.
2. Most Arminian do not believe you can lose your salvation, they believe you can depart by free will. You lose your wallet by accident, you choose to fall away.
3. Every word of "believe" in the NT referencing salvation is in the "active" voice and not "passive" voice in the original language. The active means it is man's choice, the passive means God forces it on you. If we didn't have a free will it would be passive. Again I will quote Bro. Parr "don't believe how you feel but what the bible actually teaches".
4. Arminian beliefs hold to the fact that Adam sinned by his own free will and that God did not decree him to sin. He made a "free will" choice. To claim that man does not have a volitional will clouds this up and seems to place Adam's sin at the feet of God because someone was to blame.
Where did this word come from in the BIBLE? ARMINIAN?
Biblically I see:
Believer
Disciple
Follower
Servant of Christ -> Christian.
God made the world.. he knew satan would fall.. he knew Adam would listen to Eve.. he knew we couldn’t resist sinning.. he knew we would need his son to live a sinless life in order for us to be made new.. God had this all planned out for his glory.. for his creation to understand that he is God almighty and he loves his creation aka mankind and long story short.. to appreciate him and live with him forever by his standards not ours. I’m praying for you and all the rest of my brothers and sisters who divide the church over these theological discernments.. I tell you one thing.. God is not okay with it..!! Y’all got to let your pride go.. We are called to share the gospel of Jesus Christ.. his sacrifice on the cross.. his love for us.. to turn away from sin.. please Joe.. just think about what I’m saying to you.. 🙏🏽❤️✝️
@@jayrocky9067 , sorry, but Calvinist beliefs mean humans are nothing but robots. I cannot believe God created certain people to give them no choice except to go to hell. That goes against the very spirit of a loving God.
@@cynthiasnyder1561 Whilst I disagree with Calvinism, you are making a mistake many Arminian apologists make ; that is using a logical argument before using a scriptural argument. God is God and his ways and thoughts are much higher than our ways and our thoughts. As Paul points out in Romans, if God chooses some to be objects of his wrath, that is his sovereign prerogative. However if we keep reading Pauls letter to the Romans and the rest of the new testament (instead of just the first 9 chapters of Romans and select passages of Pauls other letters as so many Calvinists seem to do) the only logical way to fit all those scriptures together favors the Arminian explanation IMHO
@@jayrocky9067 , I believe/hope that we can all agree the Bible tells us it is sinful to lie. So, I am honestly curious how a Calvinist tells people about the love of Christ. How do you spread the gospel? You can't tell them that God sent His son to die for their sins, because you do do not believe He died for all who believe in Him and repent. Only the elect.
Wow, I think that you are the first bible teacher to more or less express my own view on this subject. Struggled with it for years but finally settled in my mind that it is one of those things that we are not able to understand, and that both views are true in spite of a seeming contradiction. Think of it in human terms, when we were small children, could we even come close to understanding complicated matters that were easy for the adult to comprehend. Of course not. In this case we are the child struggling to understand something difficult, and God is the all knowing adult! Our day of understanding will come. This has been my approach to explaining and teaching these difficult doctrines for a number of years now. If the Lord ever reveals to me a better understanding, I will adjust my approach to it.
for the first time I disagree with Allan some parts I agree with Calvinism but John 3:16 makes it clear that Christ died for all. If we are "Elected " why do we have Evangelize ? why do we go out and preach the Gospel if it will all be in vein ?? why did God say I put life and death before you ???
i will stick to Christianism. None of those two are the way to the father only Jesus-Christ. i am not gonna stand on any man's doctrine but the one of Christ...
Agreed.
I feel the same way. I imagine if Christ were during these debates in the 1600s He would somehow rebuke both or combine them. I need to ask God for this.
I guess it's a good thing Christ taught it then, as well as Paul & other's in Scripture!
You just made a doctrinal statement
This statement as though both sides dont believe that their respective theological position is taught by Christ Lol humor.....Christ made it clear that all sinners apart from him are “slaves to sin”. Ephesians 1 makes it clear that he has chose us in christ *Before* the foundation of the World.
This being the teaching of the Lord, i will honor it and not ignore it :)
Hey Allen, great video! I was raised in the home of an Arminian pastor and attended an Arminian Bible College, it was during this time that I simultaneously encountered the teachings of Dr. RC Sproul who convinced me otherwise some 30+ years ago and have been a huge proponent of a Sovereign God Theology ever since. Yes, I’m a 5 point Calvinist and I believe without a doubt that, it is the only message that is clearly thought from Genesis to Revelations. It’s the heart of God towards the people of God.
"Predestination versus free will?" is the wrong question. The correct answer is: God has predestined us to have free will.
Amén
YES. That simple statement is everything. Thank you!
Lol
@Edward King I'm trying to understand. Can you share some references? Thanks
@@midkort It's beyond our comprehension, but Malachi 1/Ephesians 1/Jeremiah 1/Romans 8 and 9...
We also can NOT understand the Tri-Unity: Father AND Word AND Spirit, but God is Jesus the Savior....
Lord bless you!
The more I grow in Christ. The more I see both sides have things right and wrong. I lean more towards Calvinism,but disagree with limited atonement
Then you may be 4 point Calvinism.
Same here
If you don't believe in limited atonement, then explain the cross.
Isaiah 53:10 says it please the Lord to crush Him.
It would be unjust of God the Father to crush His Son for the sins of all people and then pour out His wrath on people in hell.
Without limited atonement, you would have universalism...everybody's going to heaven. And that's not what Scripture says. Matthew chapter 7.
Perhaps you are four-point Calvinist? They are also known as Amyraldians. I would say that I agree with their position.
@@romans9159 Why would you have universalism?
Personally, I feel like I belong to the middle ground, because I could honestly see both of these points. I mean, obviously God knows who will be saved and who will not. And I’m sure God loves us enough to give each of us a chance. But at the same time, we need God to start our salvation. He alone can save us, but I do feel that we have the power to choose God or not. I mean, think about the garden of Eden. God gave Adam and eve free will to choose Him or themselves. God knew what choice they would make, but God did not make them make that choice. I’m sure God loves each of us, and I’m sure God wants each of us to be saved, but God knows not all of us will make that choice. At the same time, I don’t feel that this in anyway takes away from the sovereignty of God. He alone knows what will happen. God is the only Lord. At the end of the day, I feel that I belong in the middle. I believe both that God is fully and completely saw Vern, and that man has complete free will.
I feel as you do. I couldn't have put it any better.
Stay humble and keep alert. Your knowledge, wisdom combined with your heart are making a difference. I believe I’m a five point Calvinist. I’m not wise or smart, so my salvation must have been a gift that I was chosen to receive.
Matt 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
I think your understanding of the Arminian point is off. No Arminian believes that you can save yourself. And when it comes to conditional election Arminian believe in prevenient grace. He extended grace before hand. We believe God still choose you but he chose you because you came to him broken and humble. No Arminian would say that you can save yourself that’s clearly a bad representation of the belief so is a lot of what was said. I think this is a poor analogy of Arminians believe. Leighton flowers gives a great and clear understanding of what most non Calvinist and Arminians believe. I send this message in love have a great night all.
Good clarification. As an Arminian I compete agree. I think our view is often seen as dismissive of God's role in saving us. Arminians generally agree that God initiates and draws us unto Himself, He also does the transforming and saving work. Yes we respond by receiving and believing but we don't boast in that and it is not any sort of "work" we are doing to justify ourselves. We merely fall at the foot of the cross in response to his drawing us and opening our eyes. Blessings and love to all sides on this discussion.
@@jasonfssoe So actually, you are more Calminian... "He draws us and opens our eyes".
I would respectfully disagree my friend. You imply man has this innate ability in himself to come to God. But that's contrary to scripture. First of all we have an inherited sin NATURE from Adam, ( Rom.5:12), so by NATURE we are children of wrath (Eph. 2:3) ie doomed from the womb (Psalm 51:5). Called federal headship. That nature dictates our ability as well as our desires and is the platform from which spring forth our actions. What does the bible say about that natures ability? Rom. 3:11-18. For this argument the key is v11 "...NO ONE seeks for God..." In other words "there is no God seeker". Similarly to John 6:37-44. Jesus response to the jews unbelief wass due to them NOT being part of the transaction between the Father and the Son (v37). The "whoever" that are not cast out, are those given. This is God's will. Again, sticking with the context, the "everyone" in v 40 are those given. And those "ones" given WILL come AND be raised on the last day. Jews grumble again. Jesus answers their unbelief again. V44 "NO ONE CAN COME.." "NO ONE", that's all without exception. "CAN COME" Stop right there. GK word dynamai means "TO BE ABLE". No one, no not one, has the moral and spiritual ability to come to Christ. "UNLESS" That implies an act or something OUTSIDE the ABILITY of man. And what is that act" Drawing! Jesus echoes that same reason for the followers offense in v61-65. V63The Spirit give life; the flesh profits NOTHING"... Also the drawing is not a "wooing". Nor is it a drawing to neutrality to make a "decision". Why? Cause all those who are drawn are raised up. So if, according to arminians, the whole world is "wooed" are they raised up? Are they universalist? OR, as Calvinist maintain, is John talking about those that are given to the Son by the Father? That's a short exegetical understanding of the text. I could go on and on with verses about man INABILITY.
As far as Leighton Flowers, my brother thats the last guy you should listen to! He constantly, over and over and over again misrepresents the Calvinist position. Even when corrected he continues deliberately erecting Calvinist scarecrows. When you challenge his continual diatribe against calvinism( 99.9% his podcast are against fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. WHY???) and his trying to divide the body of Christ, he deletes your comments or shadow bans you. Read real calvinist like Sproul, Pink, Palmer, any puritan writing not "former calvinist" Leighton. Listen to this debate to get a real understanding of the calvinist position from Matt Slick. God Bless! ruclips.net/video/2V0YpZ0FnSQ/видео.html
As long as arminians does not believe total depravity... Then the council of dort is correct...
@@philiptecson6354 Arminians believe in total depravity read the remonstrance
You give a very positive, unbiased presentation, well done.
Just by classifying all noncalvinsts as arminians is a fallacy. Not all noncalvinists are arminian. Arminians are actually closer on doctrine to calvinism than most noncalvinists. And calvinists typically don't represent the traditionalist/provisionist doctrines well. Many calvinists would probably say noncalvinists don't represent their doctrines well. It's actually not nonbiased.
Unbiased, but not the most accurate definition of Arminianism (coming from a Calvinist)
Every Knee Will Bow and Every Tongue Will Confess that Jesus Christ is Lord Hallelujah God Bless ✌
I’m surprised you lean more towards the reformed view. I’m reformed myself and I appreciate how you actually did your study and presented both sides accurately.
Kavonte Johnson why are you surprised I lean more towards that view?
THE BEAT by Allen Parr I often listen to your videos and some of your views doesn’t follow the lines of the traditional reformed views. Which is good because it means you read the Bible for what it says and not your lenses.
@@kavonte15, I'm surprised Kavonte that your so surprised that Allen Parr is Reformed in his theology. i wasn't 3 minutes in and i knew he was reformed in His presentation. this is the first video I have watched by Allen. Good video but I do disagree with the Calvinist view of scripture and the often misrepresented other views.
Gary Scalf he did a wonderful job presenting both sides accurately. I do hold to the reformed view but it’s other views that he holds to that traditional Calvinist don’t typically which is why prior to this video I didn’t believe he was reformed. But it’s good that he respectfully presented this information for both sides and did a great job studying
@@kavonte15 , your right our brother did do a good job in presenting both sides
blessings brother
"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting *ANYONE* to perish , but *everyone to come to repentance* . But the day of the Lord will come like a thief."
You ask why is everyone not saved then?
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often *I have longed to gather your children together* , as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, *but you were unwilling!* "
"From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this *so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him* , though he is not far from *each one of us* ."
"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw *all men unto myself* ." ( Jesus and the Father are one! )
These avenues of thoughts in God does not make sense in your unconditional election.
“All that the Father gives me will come to me, and *whoever* comes to me I will never cast out.”
From those God draws ( all men ), WHOEVER comes will be given to Christ. God draws all and those who are willing are given to Him by the Father and they are the elect.
Paul had a disciple named Clementine who was well taught and favored and mentioned in the Bible. Do you know what he says? John had a disciple named Polycarp who had a disciple named Irenaeus, do you want to know what he said?
In Philippians 4:3 Paul mentions “my fellowlabourers” “in the gospel,” and he names “Clement,” whose name he said was written “in the book of life…” History knows this man, who was Paul’s companion and who was endorsed by the Scriptures themselves, as Clement of Rome. Clement said, “It is therefore in the power of every one, since man has been made possessed of free-will, whether he shall hear us to life, or the demons to destruction.”[7] Clement said that “free-will” was given because “he who is good by his own choice is really good; but he who is made good by another under necessity is not really good, because he is not what he is by his own choice…”[8] Clement also said that the reason a sinner was susceptible to God’s punishment for their disobedience was because a sinner has the ability to obey God. He said, “For no other reason does God punish the sinner either in the present or in the future world, except because He knows that the sinner was able to conquer but neglected to gain the victory.”[9] The reason that a sinner is punishable for sinning, he said, is because a sinner is able not to sin. He said that a sinner is punished, not for his inability but for his negligence.
Below from (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 4, chapter 37, paragraphs 1 - 7)
1. This expression [of our Lord], ‘How often would I have gathered thy children together, and thou wouldest not,’ set forth the ancient law of human liberty, because God made man a free [agent] from the beginning, possessing his own power, even as he does his own soul, to obey the behests (ad utendum sententia) of God voluntarily, and not by compulsion of God. For there is no coercion with God, but a good will [towards us] is present with Him continually. And therefore does He give good counsel to all. And in man, as well as in angels, He has placed the power of choice (for angels are rational beings), so that those who had yielded obedience might justly possess what is good, given indeed by God, but preserved by themselves. On the other hand, they who have not obeyed shall, with justice, be not found in possession of the good, and shall receive condign punishment: for God did kindly bestow on them what was good; but they themselves did not diligently keep it, nor deem it something precious, but poured contempt upon His super-eminent goodness. Rejecting therefore the good, and as it were spewing it out, they shall all deservedly incur the just judgment of God
Calvinists believe that our faith is a gift from God, that we could never choose God of our own accord. Ephesians 2:8-9 very clearly spell out that faith does not come from ourselves but from God who gives it to us. Phillipians 1:29 adds that faith is granted to us (or given to us) as well. The Bible is clear that we are "dead in our trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1), and that "there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God" (Romans 3:11), so we cannot make the choice to follow God without God intervening in some incredible way. Romans 9 even dispels the idea that salvation is dependent upon human will "It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy" (Romans 9:16). The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is not something we can choose. It is not something that is up to us to accept. Our natural human will is always to reject because no one seeks after God and we are "by nature deserving of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3) because of this. Salvation occurs by faith, through grace, and faith and grace are both given to us by God. Most Christians will easily say that God gives grace, but he also gives us faith as well and Christians have such a hard time admitting this. Christians who do admit that God grants faith have the tendency to believe "I accepted God's gift" or "I rejected it" sometimes, but this is incorrect when studying the infallible Word of God, he predestined and chose you, you did not choose to accept or reject the gift "For he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his good pleasure and will" (Ephesians 1: 4-5). This Scripture tells us that God chose us, and it was by His will, not any choice that we made, that we are saved. This all backs up the thought that there is nothing we can do to be saved. No matter what we do, no matter what work or choice we make, it is all in God's powerful, mighty, sovereign hands and not in the hands of our feeble human will, but in God's will alone. Again, I will quote the apostle Paul when he says in Romans 9:16 "It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy" (Romans 9:16). Not our desire, not our choice, not our will. It's important to remember that we are not in control! We do not call the shots while God sits back and watches us twiddling his thumbs waiting for us to make a certain choice. God is in control! And He chose you (Ephesians 1:4, Romans 8:28-33), according to His pleasure and will, not ours. And praise be to Him, our Almighty, Sovereign Father for saving us wretches who could never choose Him, who never seek Him and conforming us to the image of His son and granting us faith (Romans 8:29, Phillipians 1:29, Ephesians 2:8)!
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, one of God’s greatest defenders in my opinion, writes “‘But’, says someone, ‘He foresaw that you would have faith; and therefore He loved you.’ What did He foresee about my faith? Did He foresee that I should get that faith myself, that I should believe in Him of myself? No; Christ could not foresee that, because no Christian man will ever say that faith came of itself without the gift and working of the Holy Spirit. I have met with a great many of believers, and talked to them about this matter; but I never knew one who could put his hand on his heart and say, ‘I believed in Jesus without the assistance of the Holy Spirit.’”
@@gocowboys4082 A few things here.
_Ephesians 2:8-9 very clearly spell out that faith does not come from ourselves but from God who gives it to us_
It's salvation that is a gift from God and not faith.
Greek words have gender: masculine, feminine, and neuter. When relative pronouns (such as “that” and “it”) are used to refer back to a noun, they always agree with the gender of the noun. The word “faith” in Greek is feminine. Therefore, if Paul was intending to say that faith is not of ourselves, but faith is a gift of God, he would have used a feminine relative pronoun for the word “that” (the word “it” is not actually in the Greek).
But the word “that” is not feminine; it is neuter.
Therefore, it is impossible for Paul to be thinking about “faith” when he wrote “and that is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.”
It is grammatically impossible for the word “that” to refer to “faith” in Ephesians 2:8. The gift of God is His revelation to humanity and the salvation which comes to us by His grace
_The Bible is clear that we are "dead in our trespasses and sins"_
Dead to what extent? Not even having the choice to believe in God? Sorry, that's called reading into the text.
_and that "there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God"_
Yes, no one initiates the process of salvation by seeking God -- God does. I cannot call the president of the USA but that doesn't mean I can't answer his phone call. Only reading into the text with Calvin tinted glasses can you conclude something that doesn't follow.
_he Bible clearly teaches that salvation is not something we can choose. It is not something that is up to us to accep_
The Bible clearly disagrees with you. If we are reading the same Bible that is. **I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, so that you and your descendants may live,**
_God and we are "by nature deserving of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3) because of this_
Yes, we affirm this. If God sent us all to hell then it would be perfectly just.
**Regarding what you said about predestination -- yes, God predestines the believers to glorification conditioned on their keeping of faith and NOT unbelievers to become believers**
@@gocowboys4082 Also, Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Not the irresistible work of Holy Spirit that is only given to select few.
The assistance of the Holy Spirit is cardinal but the decisive choice is given to the free creature, God decreed that we should have free will. Whenever men chooses good or evil -- He fulfills that sovereign decree therefore God is most sovereign.
@@SerendipitousProvidence Hello! I would like to start with the preface that though I disagree with you, I do not mean to be disrespectful in any way. I would also like to say that I used to be an Arminian and used to clearly subscribe to that belief (based on some of your words I conclude that you, like I used to, agree and use Dr. Leighton Flower's arguments or possibly Pastor Mike Winger's) but through the grace of God, I no longer think I am the determining factor in my salvation, praise be to the Lord ALONE that I am saved!!
In regards to your arguments, in regards to Ephesians 2:8--if you want to get that picky with the Greek, I'm willing to go there. I think it's important to be picky and careful in translation and I will battle this common argument used commonly by Dr. Leighton Flowers. If you want to say it isn't faith alone there that is the gift of God, then the entire phrase preceding this is the gift of God, grace through faith then would be the gift of God, which still includes faith. Paul would not include faith in that phrase if it wasn't the gift of God. The entire phrase preceding the word neuter is the gift of God. That's what I'd argue. Why would he use something in that phrase that wasn't the gift of God when the whole phrase is the gift of God, the entire process is, from start to finish, the gift of God including the grace, the faith and the being saved. It makes no sense for Paul to say the entire phrase is the gift of God when something in the phrase isn't. However, of your own admission, without the Holy Spirit, man cannot choose God, so it is therefore the gift of God if you must have the Holy Spirit (God) in you first allowing you to choose God. You have to say that the Holy Spirit doesn't play a role to say that it isn't the gift of God or else if the Holy Spirit is cardinal to faith and salvation, it was the gift of God through the Holy Spirit. And this is just logically going off of what you said when you said the Holy Spirit is cardinal.
In regards to Deuteronomy 30:19 I'd say that just because God commands something doesn't mean we can do it. We constantly fall short of God's commands and are unable to carry them out. God commands that we never sin, but we cannot not sin (that's a funny thing to say "cannot not"). It is a fact that you will sin in your lifetime, but God still commands that you not sin, just as he commands that you choose Him and choose life even though we are unable to so on our own accord (free-will).
In regards to Ephesians 2, being dead in our transgressions and sins, it is quite literal here that we are Spiritually dead. Logically, can a dead person choose? Can a person of themselves choose to be born again? No, and this is why Paul uses the metaphor, and why Jesus uses born again, because it didn't depend on you but on God. John 6:63 tells us that the Spirit alone gives life and the flesh counts for nothing. You did absolutely nothing, the Spirit ALONE gave you life. It also teaches right before that in John 6:44 that "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up on the last day." The greek word for draws there is helkyse which is used in the same way later in Acts 16:19 "...they seized Paul and Silas and them into the marketplace..." and in fact this word more closely means dragged than simply draws in Greek. It is more active than an enticement, it is not passive but very active, or are far more accurate. You can check me on this translation, it is the truth. So this death is not something you alone can escape or choose your way out of, but it is necessary for the Father to draw you (or drag you) and for the Spirit to give you life when the flesh counts for nothing. This means you of your own accord, of your own flesh, didn't choose, which is free will (the ability to act at your own discretion).
Also if you affirm that no one can seek God and no one is good and that God must call on us and seek us out (which is what I got from your commentary on Romans 3:10-12 in my original message) then you believe that man cannot choose God on their own. We cannot answer the call on our own because "no one does good, no not one". Is answering the call good? You can try to say no, but the logical answer is yes, answering the "call" is good and pleases God, and can only be done through the work of the Holy Spirit (John 6:63; the flesh contributes nothing, Romans 9:16; it doesn't depend on human will but on God's mercy, Romans 8:8-10; no one can please god, or pick up the call which I would say is pleasing to God, without the Spirit).
The main problem with Arminianism is what yousaid in your last message.
1Corin 3:1-9
The fact that people within God's church are divided like this (i.e. referring to themselves as "Calvinists/Reformed, Arminianism, Charismatics, etc.") is completely unbiblical, slightly immature, and somewhat worldly. And Paul knew this would happen.
I get the argument/explanation, which was very thorough (and somewhat necessary), but I know folks who won't budge and deeply follow the beliefs of old "Calvin (whose DEAD)," more so than Jesus (Whose ALIVE). Don't fall into the trap, Fam!
Love ya vids, btw. Keep em coming! :)
Yeah we must be convinced that we need him and then follow his leading.
You i believe are correct , it not about which religion, you are ..its all ABOUT OUR FATHER , AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST
You’re a great speaker. What you say makes sense and you have scripture to back up both views. Thumbs up and subscribed, thank you for this it was exactly what I needed!!!
for the first time I disagree with Allan some parts I agree with Calvinism but John 3:16 makes it clear that Christ died for all. If we are "Elected " why do we have Evangelize ? why do we go out and preach the Gospel if it will all be in vein ?? why did God say I put life and death before you ???
all I know is God brings dead things back to life and I’m ok with that:)
Alex Dvorak That’s what he does best. He will take the dead man out of you and put his ever living spirit inside of you and promises you eternal life.
This was the best explanation on Calvinism vs Armenianism. Thank you!
I'm so happy I found your channel recently lol I've been binge watching haha. Getting learnt up!
Allen I appreciate your humility on this subject, admitting that different view points have strengths and weaknesses, rather than I'm aggressively promoting one view.
Saying that though, I think you could have been more careful with the words you used, I felt that at times you misrepresented particular points.
One other thing to be aware of, it's not just Calvinism or Arminianism. There's also Molinism and Provisionism (Traditionalism). It would have been fairer to point out there are other viewpoints as well.
The five points were not re-affirmed in 1619. They were formulated as a reaction to Arminius. Calvin was already dead by the time the synod took place. The so called five points were not formulated by Calvin but by theological successors.
This doesn't surprise me at all.
@@ginnymoore21
Nevertheless, the five points were consistent with what Calvin believe. He taught very clearly that the final destiny of every person has already been predetermined by God. In this paradigm some would be saved but most are predestined to damnation for not other reason than God was pleased for it to happen that way
My head hurts! so much knowledge in one sitting. Great video loved it!
Ditto…🤣
i wil give the truth according to scripture, no man can choose GOD, he chooses us.
God doesn't force people to be His children, we all have free will. That's why there's a Heaven and a Hell.
And what becomes of the Jews?
Also, will children understand this? Or adolescents, I mean? Say, when reading Deuteronomy 21 or Numbers 11-31?
Well, the explanations can get fairly tautological at times, yes.
@max marrero Guy what are you saying??
No man can choose God. Well Jesus has news for you. "For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son that ALL WHO BELIEVE in him shall receive eternal life." He did not say "only certain people I choose. . . . "
Excellent you are the only one i heard who understood, its about not questioning God with our human logic which doesn’t apply but just trusting in the savior which is our only concern which Pauls mentions, God bless and Merry Christmas
The Bible says he knew us before the foundation of the earth.
Rudy d, was teaching my WhatsApp group about this Ephesians 1:4, this morning 😊❤️
Caribeean- LOL no he wasn't. Paul also writes to the believing gentiles too
Psalmist Queen can i join your group? I am christian ,but do not have any christian friends I can discuss the Bible with.
@@lenab.m.3708 I would like to talk to you. You can reach out to me any time!
Please don't hesitate to email me
Guccibootsies@gmail.com
Douxlicious thank you so much 😊
For God so loved the WORLD that He gave His only begotten Son, so that WHOSOEVER believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
But why was the world in any jeopardy? Why was any rebel angel sent to Earth, and not exiled elsewhere?
And did Adam and Eve have any idea they existed, or that they faced any peril?
Just a heads up the word WHOSOEVER is not found in the Greek manuscript it just says that who believes is saved it’s quite specific. Go read a interlinear copy of the Bible it’s right there whosoever is not there .
Blessings
Sir what will i do
Believe in The Lord and you shall be saved
Yes, and what do you imagine that means? That God treats all men the same? That God gives the same grace to all men? Whosoever believes will not perish, but who will believe? Arminians imagine the bible says God treats all men the same, yet clearly the bible shows He does not. Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. They don't like that verse so much.
Premier touché!
When I was a child I would take a magnifying glass and burn ants... (yes children can be cruel). I would decide which ant would live and which one would die. I can not believe that God would make me and choose me to burn for eternity (not by a magnifying glass) but to burn for eternity in hell. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. It's not a story book and we are charters in it, with some of us villains and others good, because there is none righteous, no not one. We have a choice and that Jesus died for all and some will accept and some will not. God is all knowing and knew who would accept him and who would not. I believe that is the predestination that God knows and accepts us.
I run every day 3 or 4 miles and listen to RUclips videos. You are one of my favorite preachers that I listen to, but I was thrown off when you said that you lean towards Calvinism. When you said that, I stopped my run and just stood there. I will continue to listen to you but I guess we can't agree on everything. This I know; Jesus Christ is God in the flesh who died for my sins and washed me clean with his blood and said he will remember my sins no more.
1. Why was I laughing so much when you said “not by magnifying glass” 😂😂😂
2. I agree fully to be honest I expected him to say Arminianism as well
I AM A CALVANIST AND IT'S ENCOURAGING WHEN I KNOW OF OTHERS, BESIDES MY DAD AND I, WHO BELIEVE THE TRUTH. THANK YOU, ALAN! KEEP SPREADING THE WORD. BLESS YOU, BROTHER!✝️♥️✝️
So then why did God damn 90 percent of the world to hell then?
Hey calvinists look.
1 John 2:2
And He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The son set us free! ♥️
I don't consider myself to be either and when I was saved I didn't know what Calvinism or arminianism was. It was God the Holy Spirit that showed me overtime that God was real and that he loved me unconditionally and sacrificially it was that love that Drew me to Salvation
God looks at the heart to see if you truly believe in him and love him with all ther heart.
This is gonna be interesting
The video really helped me identify alot of things. thank you for making it. i appreciate it. so, if the church cannot choose either position how can I know that I am saved? maybe I want to be saved and God didn't choose me? so I keep trying and fail. why would God want to force himself on me? a lot has been forced on me in my lifetime and against my will. god has never treated me this way. I believe I am depraved, a rebellious sinner who walked in my own ways and being blinded by my sinful flesh and that light of Jesus had to be seen for me to identify that there was another option I can choose. where does conscience come into play? God who is the author of faith and sovereign, provides me with opportunities with his promptings of faith to have a relationship and I can choose his invitation or not. when i choose i am sealed by the holy spirit. i can back slide, I can sin, and I can return to my father in heaven and there are many many examples in the Old Testament of god's faithfulness to rebellious people. this is the example of the entire Old Testament and God was still faithful. the gospel is not Calvinism or Arminianism. the gospel is what Jesus says Mark 1:14-15 (KJV):
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. even Paul acknowledges and preaches what Jesus says is the gospel. why are we spending so much time and money on what men say? who cares what man says. god does not make it this complicated. we are not that smart. read the Old Testament, which is what Jesus read. god made himself known very simply. Arminianism and Calvinism is an attempt to state that man has the audacity to know everything about god's heart and mind. we must believe in faith that has been given to us by God. Faith means we can't answer everything that comes to mind about how God does things. read the book of Job. there are no conclusive answers except that Jesus came to pay the price for my rebellious depraved sin and if I want to be reunited with the king I must acknowledge this about myself and learn how to walk in his ways. the 10 commandments are a good starting point for a moral code. god doesn't make a relationship with him difficult but these two schools sure do. ok thank you for listening.
Well said sister. Well said. I lean more towards the Calvinist side however the election part confuses me bc John 3:16- ..fpr God so loved the world…whosever believes in him will have eternal life. I’m torn bc I feel a sense of having to choose. But if God already chose me then is there anything else I must do? Is there no point in deciding? Idk. But like u said, as long as we believe the finish work of Jesus, by the Father with the power of the Holy Spirit. I pray I am saved too. God bless you sister.
@Janet smith
I wish I would have saw this earlier. I have to walk people through this a lot. In 2 Peter 3:9 (and I wish he would have put this in this video) The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for ALL to come to repentance.
Now, you realize that you are a sinner, you're sorry and you repent. The jailer that was guarding Paul and Silas in the prison after having that traumatic experience said what? Sirs, what must I do to be saved...and they said "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
So, if you are struggling, and you believe. If you are concerned about your salvation. If you love Jesus and what all He stands for.. If you believe He is God in Man. And you repent. You are saved. Simple. I think sometimes we complicate the gospel so much that people get confused. Easy Peezy, Lemon Squeezy. This is deep, it is very helpful for us theologians, but for the person just wanting eternal life...well: Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
I think it’s a mix of the two just as Allen said towards the end it’s “a balance”. But there ABSOLUTELY is free will. As it says in the Bible that there is damnation among those who practice and dwell in lawlessness and relish in their sins. If you’re purely chosen and you cannot reject the gift of salvation, you can in theory, sin all you want and never have to worry a single day about losing your salvation. I think we are all given the free will on earth to do anything we please but at the end of the day God has the sovereign last say about the choices we make.
That being said, I don’t believe that we can “save ourselves” or that we can “elect” ourselves. God’s salvation for us is totally undeserved and our righteousness is through Christ alone. God’s “elect” are those who choose to receive the gift of salvation. Jesus died for every past and present sin on this world. If that wasn’t so, his salvation would not have applied towards the sin of the unelected. So His salvation would only be sufficient for the elect. But as we know the Bible makes clear that His blood covers ALL sin.
My last and final point is, if everyone was preselected and we were all just playing out the moves of our puppet master, then what purpose would we as Christians serve here on earth for God? What would be the point of evangelism? Why would God set up a pre narrated “play” if you will, here on earth just for us to enact it? God is after our hearts. He desperately wants our love. And if we were all just pre elected puppets, why would He bother seeking our love and attention? Just some things to think about. God however at the same time, is absolutely 100% sovereign and all knowing. But I do believe He allows us to make decisions (aka free will). Again I believe it’s a mix of the two.
@octoberinnewyork I think our western minds want to read John 3:16 as a command, sort of like "do this and you receive that", because that makes sense to us with the way it is translated. In Greek the phrase reads like this "all those believing in" rather than "whosoever believes in"; it is a description of the benefits that believers have in Christ.
@@AllanEvansOfficialbut what if.....WHAT IF the person who is elect doesn't have the WANT or desire to live a sinful lifestyle anymore, after all, repentance is a fruit of being saved. Show me a person who claims to be elect but continues to live a life of outright treachery and I'll show you a false convert. Yes we have a will but it isn't as free as you'd like to believe, The Bible is quite clear about that; describing our life as being in bondage and a slave to sin, by nature a child of wrath (we gloss over those or sugar coat them because they go against autonomous free will). You may just have a limited view or understanding of God but The Bible is clear that He is sovereign and there is not one maverick molecule in this whole existence, He is all knowing and unchanging and He does as He wills. Often we create a god of our own image, one that placates and bows to the sovereignty of man's free will, but my friend that is no God of Scripture; our God shapes and molds men as He wills, He causes the regenerate to walk in His statutes, He is the author and finisher of our salvation.
Think of this for a sec, if God is beholden to our free will (because He's a gentleman, as some might say) them what's the point of praying to Him for a lost person's salvation? Hasn't He done all He will do by wooing them?
Great topic hmm I believe that God wants everyone to be saved but not everyone will CHOOSE to be saved. I believe once born again there is no losing your salvation. I don't believe there are a set of people that God has chosen for salvation I think salvation is for anyone that wants it.
Bottom line we all will have path after path to be saved under God's "plan" but ultimately we have to make the decision to be saved. God didn't want robots to just control He wanted us to willfully choose Him.
Kevin B I agree Kevin. God is willing that all should come to repentance. God wants all to be saved. Now, if he wants all to be saved, shouldn’t he give everyone a chance? Yes. And yes, God does know who will he saved, obviously, because he is all-knowing. But what kind of God would only give the ones he knew would accept a chance? That’s very unfair. There will be no excuses in Heaven.”, but in the Calvinistic view, one could rightly say that God was not fair. I believe in a moral and fair God, who gives free will toward everyone. We have the free will to sin or not, so why shouldn’t we have free will over our salvation? A God that forces us to be saved is not a good God. However, 2 or 3 of the Points of Calvinism I do agree with. I’m somewhere in between these two views; I don’t believe in predestination per se, but I do not believe Christians can lose their salvation. God Bless
@@icandoallthings5326 Hebrews 4 is a warning to Saints that they can fall in the wilderness and not enter into the promise land just like the Israelites. Hebrew 6 contains a similar warning. Sin when it is full grown produces death period. We are free from condemnation if we walk according to the spirit. Romans 8
Sam Tipton You know what that means? It means that we have a choice whether not to get Heaven. Obviously not all the Israelites were saved. So it is possible for them to make a choice to rebel against God and not enter the Promised Land. The Bible says “no man can pluck thee out of the Father’s hand”, in John 10:28. “No man” includes you clearly. If “no man” can pluck you out of Gods hands, then we cannot make ourselves lose salvation. Now, yes, if we are really saved, we will not live in sin. “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” If we are truly saved, we will follow God and keep his commandments to the best of our ability. Good day
Keven B... you don't even understand the "milk" of the Gospel.
The church consists of MANY (unsaved) "tares/goats" who have
"chosen" to be saved and relatively FEW (saved") "wheat/sheep/saints"
who were saved by God's sovereign Grace.
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You fail to understand that Jesus and the Apostles and the early church
taught that repentance is the RESULT of regeneration and not the CAUSE
of it... that heresy was not introduced (as "leaven" of the "tares/goats")
until many years after the Bible was finished.
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BTW... your comment about "robots" is ridiculous.
The Bible teaches that all men are DEAD until they are regenerated.
The Biblical teaching has nothing to do with robots (that is another heresy)
The Biblical teaching has everything to do with mankind being DEAD and,
therefore, unable to contribute to his salvation.
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Again, you do not even understand the "milk" of the Gospel... that some men
are "hated" by God before they are born and that some men are created to be
vessels of destruction while others are created to be vessels of mercy and it's
ONLY GOD that makes the decision on which is which [read Rom 9]
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The Bible is clear that NO MAN can come to Christ unless the Father first
"draw" them and ALL MEN the Father draws "shall come" to Christ and that
He will lose NONE of them. In fact, when the disciples (correctly) realized
that Jesus taught salvation by election - then MANY of them decided to
abandon Him [Jn 6:65-66] because they wanted (like you) to have a Gospel
in which God was not sovereign and they could "choose" their salvation.
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Wise Virgin You just insulted Kevin. He obviously does understand the Bible. He just disagrees with you. Yes, God does initiate the saving process, but it’s up to us to decide whether or not we accept it. And we cannot lose our salvation. Now, when Jesus was inviting Nicodemis and the rich young ruler to be saved, we have no idea if those two got saved. They were invited to be saved, but they both walked away at that time. Where is there a picture of Jesus forcing salvation on them? I wouldn’t want to worship a God who forces us to be saved. That’s unfair. He gives us a choice on whether to sin or not... why don’t we get a choice whether to accept him or not? God created us to all go to Heaven, but obviously we all won’t. God gives everyone a chance, because He is fair. A fair God gives everyone a chance. You’re playing with Fire. Watch out, and try to be less arrogant and judgmental of others like Kevin next time. God Bless
If you were to ask me if I'm a Calvinist or Arminian, I'd say, "YES!"
I was actually in Arminian for a long time. It was while I was trying to disprove Calvinism that I became a Calvinist.
I realized that it took a lot of eisegesis of scripture to come to the conclusion of free will. Exegesis of scripture is what led me to Calvinism, which should just be called biblical theology.
More specifically: Matthew 16:15-17, Matthew 11:25-27, John 1:12-13, John 3:3-8, John 5:21, John 6:44, Acts 5:29-32, Acts 11:17-18, Acts 13:46-48, Acts 16:13-15, Romans 8:28-30, Ephesians 2:1-10, Philippians 1:29-30, 2 Timothy 2:23-26, Titus 3:4-7, 1 Peter 1:3, and 1 John 5:1.
@JJ France I think Thomism solves this problem. I've been on a journey through historical theology this last year which has led me to the Catholic Church.
Just found this video, Thank you for making it.
I would say my struggle with strict Calvinism is that it removes the motivation to “go and make disciples”….(evangelism/missions) because it opens the door to a mindset that “well God is going to save them anyway, I don’t need the be involved.” I do NOT see scriptural support for that.”
I am of the opinion that since God is separate from our human linear time, He “knew” what was going to happen/ what choices we were going to make since Creation.
Thank you for creating this video for us! You have really explained the two Calvinism and Arminianism to where even a child can understand it! Thanks for doing that. I've always been confused about the two biblical thoughts and appreciate you clearing them up for us! I too lean more towards the Calvinistic view, however, am not completely embedded in it. :)
No he lied about everything. Are you an idiot and can't research this yourself?
@@shakazulu365 ...???
I believe God calls/chooses everyone for initial salvation. After all he says "It is his will that ALL men be saved and not perish".
Mark 16:15-16 " And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
I believe however few are chosen for final Salvation/glorification in the sense that people can freely accept or reject that invitation and its not all people that will accept. So basically the chosen ones are those who have beleived in christ and are chosen for glorification in christ Jesus. This scripture (Matt 22) when read in context is a parable where people were invited to a marriage only few met the requirements and they are the chosen ones
So in a sense he does choose us because he calls everyone. But ultimately it takes two to tango
Well said!
You are an idiot wow haha 🤦
@@uncasunga1800 Another troll who is looking for attention. I've given you now hope you are happy
Amen
Calvinism argues that we can’t choose though. There’s no room for that. When you say we can freely accept or reject that’s exactly what Calvinism is against. You are kind of speaking out of both sides a bit here.
The word said to "Work out your "SALVATION" with fear and trembling.. Even if we were chosen before time, it's still our responsibility to make it with God! btw, everyone was chosen but it's up to us to receive!
That word work out here means 'to walk out' not working it out yourself..that's not the correct interpretation
Are you reading in Philippians?
@@adrftgvvbh He's partially reading Philippians. Here's the rest:
[+]Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, *both to will and to work* for his good pleasure. (Phil 2:12-13)
Sooooo.. if you decide to believe in God, it is God working in you to change your will so that you want to please Him and work for Him.
HE SAYS CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YOUR GONNA SERVE
Great job sir. Very clear. I lean strongly towards Calvinism. Probably 90/10.
Yes, Live stream!!
Acts 13:48 King James Bible
And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and (as many as were ordained )to eternal life believed.
“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”
Matthew 28:19 NIV
Either way, this is our mission.
According to calvinist point of view , there is no means of doing that as even when you preach the Gospel or not God is going to somehow gonna save that person who is already elect . 🥲🥲🥲
@@niroponhembram727 You are exactly right.
This is one of those questionsthat masquerades as more complicated than it actually is. It is a bit of both. Amen and Amen.
The young rich man rejected Jesus invitation to follow Him. One of the thieves next to Jesus mocked and rejected Him. The other thief repented and didn’t necessarily ask for salvation but Jesus definitely saved him. So repentance is the first step we have to take willingly but even that doesn’t save us. Jesus saves us just like He saved that thief.
@Read Your Bible You're ignoring the verse right after Acts 2:38. Acts 2:38 is correct, but you must take it into context.
Acts 2:39 says "The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call."
It doesn't depend on your decision, but God whom called you. And Calvinists don't believe they have the Holy Spirit from birth, but they do believe the Holy Spirit acts on them prior to their belief. Read Romans 8, the entire chapter. It should clarify to you that without the Holy Spirit, we are at enmity with God and it is by the Spirit that why cry "Abba, father!".
Also 2 Corinthians 4 (I believe) is pretty essential to understanding that without the Holy Spirit, we cannot know God.
God bless you, hope this helps!
@@gocowboys4082 why does the Bible say believe on the lord Jesus and you will be saved not the other way around 😄