I'm super excited about this video because so many people have asked me, "Brother Allen, are you a Calvinist?" Well, I answer that in this video along with really explaining some of the specifics as it relates to Calvinism. Let me know below what direction, if any, you personally lean. I'm looking forward to reading your comments!
I've come across about Calvinism 6 years ago ., I can't agree to some of it too and with your video I am more clear about it. Also first time to get this TULIP acronym of calvinism. And I can guarantee millions of Christians don't have any idea about this too. Im sure this will give clarity. In regard with election and predestination I think we can study carefully Ephesians 1 and note all Or underline the "in Christ'". , and see what the Holy Spirit teaches us.
Less division... more humility and humbleness in the body of Christ! Looks like Alan and I have these few points and things we wrestle with concluding on in common right now. God bless, and thank you brother Alan!
Yes, Thank You Allen for this much needed video, for that information. I like it that it wasn't a long video. I will need to rewatch it, for it to sink in. God Bless You, Your Family, and Your Ministry.
So if you don't 100% agree with a theologian on all their thoughts, it must mean you 100% agree with some other theologian? Even though there's been thousands of theologians? These guys are not the ultimate authorities on these topics. It seems like such a false dilemma. Just wanted to put that out there. I think Non-Calvinists are very misrepresented by Calvinists.
@@liesbethvanham5443 amen! Check out Mike Winger's expository teachings on Calvanism and why it's unbiblical ...he is not Arminian and I am also on neither side 100 percent. God bless you sister
I knew of two calvinist preachers who turned away two individuals who came forward to accept Jesus as Savior because they deemed they didn't know enough about scripture and thus couldn't be elect. They just wanted Christ's offer of mercy and were turned away. One of the preachers told a small child she might not be one of God's chosen when she came forward to accept Christ. I've never had a good interaction with a calvinist who believes God picks who will and won't go to Heaven.
This video was a blessing to me. I have recently FINALLY started studying my Bible on a higher lever after being saved for nearly 19 years. I've read it from beginning to end, taken classes, etc. but I've found myself at a crossroad questioning some of the Charismatic practices I learned as a student and leader and what is trully Biblical. I've started studying Calvinism and Arminism and where I stand on these principles, but not as a dogmatic classification of who I am. I just know that I love Jesus, He's my Lord and Savior, and my responsibility as a Believer is to go into the world and make disciples of men. Like you, I admit that I struggle with the same principes of Calvinism that you do. I also believe that once saved, always saved but in the context that if a person has truly become saved and yielded to God, God will "hold" us as we perservere until our final day. Those who turn away from Him and never return, were never saved to begin with. I believe the words of Christ, "And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day." John 6:39
Thank you for your honesty because it has encouraged me to just take a breather! It’s so easy for younger Christians like myself to try and create this neatly packaged theology feeling as if we need all of our theology sorted out in order to be a mature Christian.
Great point. It reminds me of Paul writing to the church in Corinth. Paul said they still needed milk and were not ready for meat. They were immature not because of theology but because of their disobedience. I learned a lot about Scripture and really thought I was special until I realized all I had learned was not being practiced. Knowledge of God is pointless if it doesn't change us. In other words, mature Christians are doers of the Word. Theology is very important. The word litterally means The Study of God Theos=God Ology=Study. But the mature Christian practices the truths learned from the study of God. Sounds like you're more mature than you thought sister. 😉 God Bless
@@DanielMotesSEO what a great comment!! And this is so true!! I see so many weighted down and unsettled trying to figure the "correct" theology...And it's like if we would just take a step back, and take a long good look at God's word (I'm visualizing a man looking at and pondering a beautiful painting ) we would see it's right in front of our faces!!! God does not want our sacrifice, He wants our hearts, our devotion. It's all about Him and how we respond to Him! Being a doer of God's word shows our love and heart and devotion to God, and that's what we want to be more concerned with. Not trying to figure out the ways of God, like these 2 smart men did!! That's all I see is men trying to figure out the ways of God!! Not saying it's bad to study theology, like you said the study of God, but to not get so wrapped up in something we can't fully understand that we make a whole "theology" on it, that totally trips people up. It causes people to look to it, rather then to look to God and His word!! It is simple, Go to God, love and honor with all your heart. Kiss the king and devote your attention and your life to Him. God bless
@@jenn5773 Yeah I agree. Theology is important because we are told to worship in Spirit and truth. But getting stuck on one topic isn't wise. Even the prince of preachers (as they called him) Charles Spurgeon was a Calvinist but he wrote a sermon telling people to avoid preachers that ONLY talk about election and predestination. Spurgeon was very balanced. Although he wanted others to see the blessing of election for the believer, he knew the heart of the Gospel was Christ crucified for sinners.
Really good response! Be encouraged that this walk with the LORD is about growth and He knows where you are at every stage of your development and the earnestness you have in getting to know Him. It took me decades to learn - and I hope I have learned - that we must be patient with Him, patient with others, and patient with ourselves. I will not try to throttle a youthful believer like yourself to, "take it slow." No, I encourage you to run as hard and as fast and as far as you can for Christ now before the Enemy discovers ways to hinder you. Learn all you can and shine all you can for Jesus. And don't get discouraged: He told us, "In the World ye shall have tribulation" - He didn't sugar-coat the journey we have ahead of us. He also gave us something to hold on to when He finished His declaration, "Be of good cheer: I have overcome the World." (John 16:33)
Great video man, I'm a calvinist, but don't care much about the terminology I just like to say I'm a Bible believing Christian. Also I'm cool with where anyone lands as long as they have a biblical conviction behind it.
@@armac8158 “doctrines of grace” is just a rebranding tactic to deceive more into adopting Calvin’s system. It’s a dishonest way of communicating. We all think we are followers of Christ regardless of theological conviction. Whether you like it or not, Calvin has influenced your theology more than Christ, even if you prefer to call it doctrines of grace.
Yes, I'm almost exactly where you are, brother Allen, and I have been follower of Christ for 45 years now. I've taken undergraduate and graduate level theology classes, have a Master of Divinity degree, and I was a pastor for 10 years. Yet I still find myself in the same predicament you're voicing here. The limited atonement I keep vacillating on what the scriptures teach. Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement, ask me next week I may not be so sure 😉. I have a hunch there are many like us on this point. But I have no doubt when we see Jesus it will all be clear! For sure, none of us have it all figured out, nor will any of us be 100% right on 100% of theology. But that doesn't stop me from continuing to learn and seek to understand and grow in knowing the Lord. We are all in process, and as long as we are heading in the right direction, well, that's what I believe matters most.
"Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement" Well if it turns out you are not elected, your 45 years and your Pastoring etc etc have been a complete waste of time. That's what you are in effect saying.
Thanks Allen, didn’t knew what Calvinism was before now. From your explanation, I consider myself not a Calvinist, but a follower of Christ. You are doing great, I have learnt a lot from you about what it takes to be a good and faithful Christian. God bless
Yes, this was a very good introduction for the topic. It is definitely good to just be a Christian, but it is also good to understand the deeper issues in the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate! God bless!
This verse unequivocally vaporizes the idea of limited atonement: 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world Even if a Calvinist tries to say that words like "us" or "our" refer to the elect, this verse says NOT for US ONLY, but FOR the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
The problem is that Calvinists don’t care what the Bible says. If their ideology says something different that’s what they adhere to. They see the world through TULIP coloured glasses.
I think that Jesus died for the WHOLE world, that Jesus had the punishment for ALL sin, but the atonement of that price was limited to those who believe. So yes, the efficacy is enough to pay for everyone's, but we are not universalists.
There is no such thing as a 2, 3, or 4 point Calvinist. Anyone who claims that doesn’t understand what calvinism is. The foundation of calvinism is point 1 total depravity. All other points are built off point one and support each other. If you reject some points than you reject the entire system. Majority of calvinist have horrible inconsistencies and double standards because they lack the knowledge of what calvinism is. Calvinism is a horrible doctrine meant to cause division and confusion among believers. This video only perpetuates the problem. Run away from calvinism never look back.
Dude! I appreciate the honesty! If you do not struggle with scripture there is a problem. I use to struggle with limited atonement and irresistible grace, but now I have peace on these issues. I am a Calvinist not because of 5 points or John Calvin, but through the study of scripture.
Nice breakdown of the subject. I remember my first pastorate had a few Calvinists who held strongly to their positions. As a pastor in a new church I had to carefully navigate the TULIP land mine. Ultimately it was about agreeing on the essentials.
Thank you brother Allen for breaking things down... Praise God for how he's using you as you exercise your gifts for the Kingdom...Many blessings to you and your family!!!
I'm so shocked 😲 I've been following Allen par for some years. Never would I imagine he was a Calvinist. He's a good teacher, but I I didn't always agree with his theology for the past few years I've been watching him. I do agree with many things that he teaches, but I guess now I understand why something always felt different. I pray God keep revealing His truth to Allen so that he can find better clarity for the things he is wrestling with and doesn't understand. God bless
Not the first time I've listened to someone unknowingly being indoctrinated.ex. I had listened to John McArthur for about a year unknowingly bring indoctrinated into this calvinist theology.
Appreciate the video. Honestly this was one of the things I struggled with in seminary and was pretty discouraging at times as my classmates tried to put labels on me. I really didn't appreciate it nor did I like it. I'm like you and just consider myself a Christian who is growing in his faith and trying to discern what God says in his word. I shy away from proclaiming I'm a calvinist in any way because that seems to indicate you're a follower of John Calvin. Haha. There are things I agree with in Calvinism and there are things I agree with in armenianism so I guess I'm a hybrid. Haha. I just love the Lord and I want to try to look like him every day as he teaches me more about who he is. Thanks for your consistency
I think the issue even from a non seminary student is if God knows the future then from the human POV it looks like predestination. I think in reality both points exist as clearly God knows the future but He is definitely holding you to your actions and beliefs. I think being classic liberals in democracies we have issues with free will violations in the Bible but the story of Pharaoh having his heart hardened against Moses and the Devil going into Judas seems to heavily imply there are at least two examples of people having their free will over rode by God or Satan. Now in both cases you can argue their souls were primed for such an event but still it occurred. That would imply Pharaoh would have backed down sooner and that Judas wouldn't have betrayed Jesus to the point He'd have been killed. As for predestination, Jesus knows Judas will betray Him and calls Judas out and also tells Peter that he will betray Jesus 3 times. Now it is heavily implied Judas is in Hell and Peter is in Heaven, so Jesus knew what both men would do and what would happen in the long run to both men for their actions. I think it comes down to what kind of Christian you are, if you came in for the 2 hour long sessions of music and Ned Flanders version of Christianity you feel Calvinism is wrong but yet you can't explain how God knows the future much less why Satan would continue his pointless battle against a God who's own angel Michael is still stronger than you. On the other side the Calvinists do sound a little too harsh and it's a bit esoteric of a point that will go over most people's heads because they don't think about how God knows the future. I would go as far to say that while I agree with a lot of Calvinism it was probably an idea that didn't need to be brought up because it scares off Ned Flanders Christians if they think about it. Also I would argue that one of my issues as a protestant in general is overly committing to ideas to the point we split off from each other pointlessly. If that contention wasn't there America would have at least specified to be a Christian nation.
GREAT SEGMENT! I am Reformed in my theology, which means I agree with the five points. But my Christian life didn’t start out this way. I began as a free-will Arminian. After years of careful study and then accepting/believing what the Word says, I am now firmly convinced (in heart and mind) that the Reformed view is the “most” biblical. Like you Allen, I do not use or embrace the label of being a Calvinists. Simply because I have reached the same conclusions as John Calvin does not make me one of his disciples. I frequently challenge those who want to wear the title of Calvinist instead of “Christian.” John Calvin never saved anyone, nor could he ever be the propitiation for anyone’s sin, so I believe it dishonors the Father and the Son for the redeemed to call themselves by any other name. I believe a Christian referring to him/herself by their denomination or by their hero is a precisely what Paul condemned in 1 Corinthians 3:4-9. “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). Love your ministry! Keep up the good work.
Amen amen brother..!! Totally agree with you.. it’s so sad how so so many brothers and sisters don’t see it that way.. I truly believe that the Father just shakes his head with displeasure… seriously… we break his heart enough those who are in rebellion and living wicked lifestyles … to then see the church fight and argue.. 🤦🏽♂️.. God be with you brother..!!!
Predeterminism entered the church in the 5th century from Augustine, a former Stoic and Manachian Gnostic. The early church fathers taught against this doctrine for 4 centuries before Augustine.
Dr. Leighton Flowers has a channel called Soteriology 101 which focuses mainly on this debate. He is a former Calvinist. I recently read John Lennox's "Determined to Believe" and thought that was really excellent. The main struggle I have as a non-Calvinist is that it seems like people assume that if you're not Calvinist then the only other option is Arminian. I'm also not Arminian. I think both Calvin and Arminius tried to explain their theology on determinism, free will and sovereignty, but they are not ultimate authorities on these topics and there have been many other theologians since who don't necessarily 100% agree with the entirety of their views.
Spot on. Love way you explain. The thing that gets my back up is that calvanists I have met seem to assume they are the authority. They seem unaware that they are peddling a systematic theology with holes in it and not The bible. 5 points of calvanism and armanisim have flaws becuase both are mans attempts to explain the bible and salvation in a water tight argument. It dosent work. I have major issues with nearly all 5 points of calvanism. To me the early church didnt focus on petty arguments. They preached the gospel to All, they assumed All could be saved to the uttermost. They knew all wouldn't be saved but preached as if all could. Thos overemphasis on Gods sovereignity makes Christian's inactive and as John Wesley warned " They fall into the sleep of calvanisin".
Flowers’ view is called Provisionism (God has provided the means for everyone to have the repentance and faith necessary to be saved). That’s what I believe. I also recommend this channel.
For anyone wrestling with the "irresistible grace" point, I have a friend whose father got saved at 90 years of age. He started being active in the church playing guitar in the band on Sundays. He died less than three years later. He lived in the world doing the things of the world for 89 years, but God knew He would save him the entire time. God gives the elect the measure of faith we need to accept Him. As He draws the elect, we will eventually give our lives to Him.
WOW! You have given me something to look in to. Prior to this video, I had heard the term, “Calvin, Calvinism, Calvinist” but just thought he was a “pre-Billy Graham”. Going off the definitions you lay out, I can’t put myself into a 3,4 or5 point category. I’m a Christian. Jesus Christ & Him crucified, that’s my ism.
I really loved what you had to say. Conversations like this really sharpen us. One point I would like to mention is that. Making a decision is not a work. For example, I could be sitting on the couch and could make a decision or put faith in that, blue is the best color and is better then every other color. All I had been doing was thinking and made a decision. Making a decision and or putting faith in something does not imply that it’s a work.
12:34 - “I don’t like to categorize myself by a particular theologian. I like to categorize myself as a basic Christian.” I’m the same way! I agree with Calvin, Arminius, and other theologians as far as they agree with the Scriptures.
@@johntrevett2944 why? And how. If I understand conditional salvation is that God extend is grace of Salvation and we can choose to respond to it or not right?
@@citamora Conditional security is acceptable only to those who also believe that they somehow contributed to their salvation in the first place (which Arminian theology logically implies). But this flies in the face of such passages as Ephesians 2:8-9: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast,” which clearly assert that we contribute absolutely nothing to our salvation; even the faith necessary to receive the gift of grace, is itself a gift of God. On the other hand, Arminianism gives man a reason to boast in the end. If by my cooperation with the Spirit of God I remain faithful to the end, I can boast (a little) about how I was able to stay the course and finish the race. However, there will be no boasting in heaven except to boast in the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:31). The doctrine of conditional security is not biblical; the Bible is quite clear that we persevere because God preserves us.
@@biglewlc12 Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Yo. I, like you, also struggled with limited atonement when it was really new to Reformed theology. It made me despondent. The idea that there is no hope outside of God's Grace made me very sad. After dwelling on it for a while and praying about it, I heard an argument made by John McArthur that helped me a little. But it wasn't until I looked to the old testament that I found my answer. The destruction of the world through the flood and the pruning of Sodom & Gomorrah put into perspective for me. It isn't that God wants to just flippantly kill his people. It's just that evil must be killed for goodness to prevail. Both instances were used to bring salvation to the rest of the world by seeing the consequences of their sin. And instead of being sad about it, I should be grateful that the Lord saw fit to spare me.
@cdr 777 I like how you put this!.. some similarities to my response I posted. And if you don't mind me adding, Dr Andrew Farley. He answers these above questions so well on his life call in radio show. It's on at 7: 03 Central everyday. 👋🎶
Michael, I can sympathize with what you're saying.. rather than me going on here, check out my previous comment to Allen and let me know what you think. 👋🎶
That's a good point. However listen to what God says not John Mccarthur. The scripture says God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but rather he should turn and live. See Gods word says God does not want the death of the wicked, God gives them the opportunity to.repent. The huge issue with calvanism is they believe God created people with the intention of sending them to Hell. Augustine believed this. See how far removed this idea is from Gods will.
@@jasonpellegrini7148 good points Jason!!! And also about Augustine.. and if you also look at where the concept of hell came from, you'll see Augustine and early church fathers took it from the teachings of Socrates and Plato.. you'll see Turtullian it's the one that spearheaded and put together the concept of a fiery hell, Hades down under the ground.. check out Edward fudges videos on this.. I think you'll find them very interesting.
Oh wow I am pretty much exactly where you are at the moment! Thank you for sharing. The first time reading through the Bible His sovereignty stuck out so strongly to me and I didn’t come away really at all on the Arminian side. Remembering when I got saved it seemed like He completely enabled me to believe, as I had heard the gospel hundreds if not thousands of times before that. The light bulb just went off and I was able to see, but it seemed like it wasn’t from me at all. A few minutes after I believed, I received prayer for my bad neck and the Holy Spirit started moving in me as soon as they started praying (just a prayer of faith nothing weird!), and He completely healed it. As I look back it was like I had received this gift of faith to finally believe and it was so strong that believing He could heal my neck was no problem at all to me. It was a childlike faith. I walked outside after and the trees and sky looked brighter. Stopped taking pills and wanting to die after that day. Needless to say it was quite the day! Love you Jesus!
Why would God "force" you essentially to come to him and not force himself on others? Because that's what you're saying. What's so special about you over the millions who have rejected God? Why isn't it that He just extended an invitation to you (as he does with everyone else) but you chose (exercised your free will) to accept it and went to Him?
RC Sproul had a great explanation of what “free will” actually is. It is not the ability to choose or not, as if you really can’t use your own will. It _is,_ however, when your will *becomes* freed from your innate, sinful will. He also said, there is really no such thing as being anything other than a 5 point Calvinist. You’re either all 5, or you’re not a Calvinist.
Thank you both for your breakdown and your honesty. It is part off what lead me to this channel. I struggle with these points for year, having been an Armenian and raised in Armenian churches. It took understanding the Total Depravity to its fullest extent to lead me to where I would say I am basically a 5 point Calvanist.
Total depravity and double predestination implies that the people going to hell are not responsible for that. God just arbitrarily decided he wasn't going to regenerate those people. No wonder so many Calvinists turn athiests
@@User_Happy35 You are not representing Calvinism correctly. God is not the author of Sin and does not tempt or cause anyone to sin. Man does it on his own. No one will be in hell that doesn’t deserve it. God bless, SM
@@ShepherdMinistry This is excatly what calvinism teaches, they will say man is the one sinning but they are sinning becasue God gave them the desire to sin and also ordained that they would sin, they could not do any other. So not sure how you are defining author of sin or what sense you mean he does not tempt but in a calvinist world view God is the one who desires and ordains sins and is also the one who gives man the desires in himself to act out sin. This to me sounds like tempting and authoring,
I am more of a Baptist "traditional" view of soteriology. I am always examining my beliefs in view of the Word and it seems like you are, too. If you have time, check out Soteriology 101's response to your video. A lot of Calvinists don't understand our view and it might enlighten you on another perspective. Thanks.
One of the most encouraging things I’ve seen in a long time is how civil these comments are. My personal take is that it’s really hard for me to take a stance and equivocally say that I understand how the sovereignty of God interacts with man’s free will. It’s just one of these things that I don’t know if I will ever truly understand. But what I do understand is that we are One Body of One Church of One Christ whose mission is to preach Christ and His Resurrection so seeing nothing but uplifting comments is so encouraging.
Loved this! Thank you for this educational video about an important topic of theology. I was curious if you would ever do a series on Church history or important people of church history? That would be an awesome series!
This is a really great video, delivered with courage, care and clarity. Thank you for putting this all so very well, without tangling up the theology and maintaining a strong focus throughout. I consider myself, perhaps like yourself in some ways, a humble follower of Jesus, that is, a simple Christian. I am not a huge fan of simplistic labels so much - theology isn't about picking a football team, you know!! So I do agree with some of the Calvinist five points - but firmly reject the others. I am no TULIP - more of a TP kind of guy!. Some may even say that I embrace aspects of Arminianism - but that's also not so straightforward either. I find WLC's position of Molinism quite interesting, but there are plenty of bones to pick there. I suggest that every theologian is wrong about some aspect of theology - no one is perfect, apart from God, of course. I love your honesty, but we probably don't entirely share an identical theology in every respect, sir!
Brother Allen, thank you for that breakdown. I've been a believer for over 20+ years but it wasn't until about 7 years ago that I started wrestling with these concepts. I would consider myself more of a Molinist. It's an alternate view that attempts to reconcile the Calvinist vs Arminian debate. William Lane Craig and Alvin Platinga are some notable modern day proponents. Also, I think Mike Winger has mentioned he leans in this direction.
Yo Mr. Parr! You were called out by the originator of the Provisionist movement! Leighton Flowers did a whole show on you. Like you, he is a loving brother in Christ who I would pay to see you discuss and explore Calvinism with. He is an expert Soteriologist and very VERY kind, especially to brothers who are filled with the Spirit 😃
Whenever someone asks me this, I say I am a Christian with a reformed baptist theology. I don’t follow John Calvin, I follow Christ and try to live by the Bible day by day
Why not just tell the truth though? You know reformed Baptist theology comes from Calvin himself. We all follow Christ, just be up front about where your beliefs come from, it’s only for the goal of winning someone to your theological stance to hide Calvinism with a different name.
Which is what Calvin did, Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. If you live by the bible you are following the writers that was inspired by God, so was Augustine, Calvin, Martin Luther, Paul etc.
@@nesto2851 Jesus said no man can to me unless my father sends them. John 6:37. "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." ... John 6:44,65 John 15:16. Acts 13:48 Romans 9:16,22,23. Galatians 1:15,16 Ephesians 1:4,5 II Thessalonians 2:13
Brother Allen - Thank you for creating and sharing this great video. It has made me want to talk more about this with my pastor!!! I belong to a small Reformed church in North Carolina. We are a beautiful family of people, and it doesn’t matter if someone may disagree with you on some things or not!!!
I have views that align with both a mix of Calvinism and Arminianism as it pertains to Soteriology. A part of me at times wants to dive right into being a full blown Calvinist based on my own conversion experience, but trusting in personal experience is one of the many reasons I object to the Charasmatic movement vehemently. Funny this morning spent the better part of it conversating with a young woman on this topic, as she is theologically Reformed, and we went in depth into my views Soteriologically. It was actually refreshing to have a conversation on my theology, referencing supporting scripture, and really calling to remembrance the time when the Lord made me a heir of eternal life!
🔥🔥🔥 I think that most people that are not fanatics when it comes to Calvinism will land where you are Allen. I myself have the same frame of thought as you do!!! I struggle with the same points of Calvinism you do. I think that overall we should all aim to understand scripture and look at God's writings through the holy spirit and not so much from a man made theological lense. I think when we do this God allows us to struggle with the things HE wants us to struggle with and affirms the things HE wants us to affirm.
And when you do see the scripture through The Holy Spirit lens. You will see the error. I struggle with Calvinism for like a 3 months straight. I thought I was loosing my faith.
It is based on false premises and should be thrown out completely. It is much easier to just read Scripture and form views based on that rather than try to conform to premade false dichotomies and views that are formed by philosophy.
Reading the Bible is very confusing to me but last week i found your u tube and after listening to several of your videos,the way you break things down, I now know i'm going to heaven. GOD BLESS YOU FOR THE TIME AND EFFORT YOU PUT HEREE FOR US BOB LECH
I didn’t know what Calvinism was during the pandemic I really focused on my relationship with Christ I prayed a lot ask God to lead me to teachers and preachers of the gospel I could listen to. I started seeing sermons from RC Sproul John MacArthur Voddie Baucham I found the sermons to be very rich in Theology and answered several questions I had. RC does a phenomenal job explaining and teaching even what different words meant in the original text. I don’t like the term Calvinism as it puts the focus on the man instead of the message. RC Sprouls lectures have helped me tremendously and I would rather believe God did the work than that anything I did or will do helped the process. If Jesus died for the whole world then and will not lose any that the Father gave to Him then the whole world would be saved. RC broke this down explained the the word world is used in different ways and doesn’t always mean the same thing. At the end of the day God determined some will get Grace some will get justice but no one will get injustice and I’m grateful and beyond humbled He chose me for Grace. Be blessed all
Yes. R.C. Sproul is/was the most expert at explaining difficult concepts in theology. Voddie B comes in a close second, also great in shutting down political partisan ideology posing as wisdom for Christian living in the post-modern society. He shows that nothing is new under the sun. ..
I’d encourage you to keep searching. Check out channels called Beyond the fundamentals or Soteriology 101. Rc made a living misrepresenting opposing views. At least objectively listen to those channels I suggested and make an informed decision who is preaching truth.
@@WoodrowKlassen7 Well I would say faith is a gift. So you’re saying it’s not a gift from God? Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. We see here faith, grace, the entirety of salvation is a gift. God bless, SM
Thank you so much for this very important video brother Alan! I have seen some christians treat Calvinists as if they were evil people and was wondering what calvinism is all about. There are some points I didn't understand much yet, but I couldn't see why some are hating on Calvinists so much. I saw something really important from the points Calvin made, he believes that God has complete Authority and he still loves God believing God elects some people for salvation, he loves God no matter what! He must have been very humble and in complete submission to God!
Think this through. This one verse (there are many others) refutes hyper Calvinism; Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." If Calvinism were true, the verse would/must say, "Few are chosen."
Brother Allen please have a look at this video. Brother Leighton Flowers would love to have a discussion with you, if you're up for it. God bless you Allen. ❤🙏🏽
Love this video and I don’t like being labeled, but in the words of Mark Driscoll “ I’m not a Calvinist, I just believe in what he taught” The late Dr. RC Sproul a well know reformed theologian and philosopher had issues with the semantics of TUILP and thought the acronym was very misleading, causing confusion and division. So RC redefined the teaching that’s fit a more biblical understanding of what reformers believe. 1). Radical Corruption 2). Sovereign Election 3). Definite Redemption or Definite Atonement 4). Effectual Grace 5). Preservation of the saints (RSDEP)
One thing I notice about calvanist is they quote calvanist theologians a lot at times almost as if theologians quotes have the same authority as scripture itself. That's why many of them are decieved following men more than what the Bible says verbatim. When you study scripture through the lenses of a blind man, you'll be just as blind as he.
@@TheLegacy87 Part and partially I agree, but most of what you’re saying is is judgement without knowledge. What do you know about reformation? And why was there a reformation? Do you know all the denominations in America are reformed, for the exception of Catholicism and Greek orthodoxy? Also what does it mean in John 16:13 when Jesus says “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth…” or is that passage saying that God’s Spirit will work alone or though God ordained teachers? Let me help you out…just a little bit. Sound doctrine has to be taught, no one learns sound doctrine by THEMSELVES-NO ONE! Bible dictionaries, Hebrew and Greek lexicons, commentaries, bible translations, etc come from other people who learned from other people. In other words, the very tools needed to study and learn about scripture comes though ( hopefully) believing, spirit lead individuals. Part of The Holy Spirit’s job is to equip the church though teachers ( Jeremiah 3:15; Ephesians 4:11). Paul address this in all his Letters, just to give a few “Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus; But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it; He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it” (2 Tim 1:13; 3:14; Titus 1:9). Also this was seen in Acts 18 about a educated Jew named Apollos who preached about Christ, but lacked a full understanding of what he preached, and so a couple Priscilla and Aquila “explained to him the way of God more adequately”. With all of that knowledge, Apollos still needed someone to teach him sound doctrine. I’m saying all of this, so that you don’t judge without understanding. Until the Reformation, the church was under a millennia of bad theology. Just to name a few Martin Luther, William Tyndale and many others began a campaign from translating the Bible into English or protesting false doctrine that paved the way for sound doctrine. Those men you say “we” quote often are people ( while not perfect) was reading and teaching scripture for the first time in a millennia since the early church. Those same people also encouraged the scriptures that was hidden from people. A revival of spirit-lead teachers, to the Glory of God. So those often quoted men “only” goal was to “…contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” ( Jude 1:3). What we know today and our translated Bibles came though those often quoted men.
No wonder alot of Christians are so confused its all too much sometimes Thank you for clearing this subject up until i watched your video i had no clue what Calvinisim was and now it has thrown up more questions than answers so for now i will just say that i am a basic Christian aswell and i just thank God that he chose me before the foundation of the world and hope that he choose my daughter aswell just saying it in those terms scares the crap out of me but my faith in Christ is unshakable and i truly believe that every one that can be saved will be saved god bless you all ❤️
Thanks Allen. Very informative clip. I tend to agree with all 5 points of Calvinism, but don’t like to be referred to as Calvinist. I prefer being called Christian.
From a 5-Point Calvinist: Nicely done, Allen! Limited Atonement is (understandably) a common hang up. An easier way of describing it is "Particular Grace." One note: The way you described Limited Atonement from the 4-Point Calvinist is really the 5-Point view. We will say that Christ's death on the Cross was SUFFICIENT for all, EFFICIENT for some. In other words, Christ wouldn't have to make another sacrifice if somehow more people were added to the elect (for argument's sake). So while we may not be able to say to the man on the street, "Jesus died for your sins," we can say "If you repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, your sins are forgiven." His death IS sufficient for everyone, but it may or nor may not be EFFECTIVE for that person.
@Oostburg CRC "His death IS sufficient for everyone, but it may or nor may not be EFFECTIVE for that person." No offence, but that's something of a cop-out. If atonement is limited and it was limited before the foundation of the world because God chose whom he wanted to be saved, and the grace he bestows is irresistible, then Christ's death cannot be sufficient for all. That notion does not make sense. It makes no sense to die for someone that you've determined beforehand is going to be condemned.
Brother Allen, no matter where you are in your faith walk, you are still my brother in Christ. So, no matter what you are wrestling with, just keep striving in a forward movement, towards Our Heavenly Father. GOD Bless you and yours
I told my pastor from my previous Pentecostal church that I was wrestling with some of the doctrines they teach, such as the rejection of the trinity and the requirement to speak in tongues as evidence of having the Holy Spirit. He basically told me that he was disappointed in me and couldn’t believe that he had trusted me with the pulpit (I’ve taught at a few midweek services). He also thought I was having a crisis of faith and in danger of swaying to some other religion. I’m glad to hear that someone like you also wrestles against unbiblical teaching within Christianity. He kept trying to make me call myself an apostolic Pentecostal, but got frustrated with me when I refused to do so and I said that I just considered myself a Christian, follower of Jesus, etc. I’ve had it with denominations 🤦🏻♀️
As someone who went down that rabbit hole to its conclusion, I’d answer anyone who claims to be a Calvinist who doesn’t accept all 5 points is not actually a Calvinist but a person wrestling with the brainwashing they have received from Calvinist teachings that utilize circular logic and redefining terms, words and examples in the scriptures to fit within the Calvinistic doctrine. The scripture viewed without going through the lens of Calvinism tells a different story that doesn’t have to wrestle with some how through Devine mystery God is deterministically and arbitrarily the author of human evils and not responsible himself for doing so. I could go on but, let’s just say there’s often a false dichotomy trotted out as a straw man to point to and claim victory. The choice isn’t Calvinism or Arminianism as I see it. Though if you must entertain such a false dichotomy, standing in the middle of them is the best place to stand. P.S. I in no way deny God’s sovereignty, I just believe he’s big enough to accomplish his desires as he desires them in spite of granting humanity the free will (not as Calvinist teach it but as commonly understood) to choose.
@@suavesoto7393 Poop then because I shortened some as trying not to stir up unnecessary conflict, which part? Is it still there I can put it back if it’s helpful to people I have a bit of soreness still from past experiences within a OPC so I’m trying to be careful to not let that influence what I say.
Brother Allen, Brother Leighton Flowers says he'd love to discuss this with you on his program. He made a very respectful response video to yours. What say you?
Thank you, Brother Allen! Now I know what it means when someone accuses me of being a Calvinist. My position is similar to yours, but in general I lean on the Sovereignty of God. He knows the end from the beginning, and I in my finite human mind, I cannot comprehend that.
Brother Allen, it’s definitely OK to wrestle with theological points. I think that’s a sign of a humble servant that is just opening up to the leading of God’s Word. We will waver because we are broken, but constantly seeking the Holy Spirit to lead us where we fail short.
Allen, Leighton Flowers just did a response to this video. He is a Provisionist, which is a little different than both Calvinism and Arminianism. I really think it would be a blessing to the church of Jesus Christ if the two of you could get together and have a friendly conversation. Dr. Flowers is friends with Mike Winger and he has written a book on Romans 9.
Leighton claims to have been regenerated by God's grace, even teaching Calvanism for 10 years, only to step out and deny it was an arbitrary act of God's grace to save him, but rather that it was his imaginary autonomous free will that put him in Christ. Why would anyone Elect want to have a "friendly" conversation with a man rejecting election?
I would love to see you have a discussion with Dr. Leighton Flowers from soteriology 101. I think it would be eye opening for you. With brotherly love and respect your born again and saved non-Calvinist brother.
Thank you for the video this is such a great topic in understanding who we are in Christ. For example, I am strongly against Calvinism, I look at it and say "how can anyone believe this?" Yet, I fear that so many people allow their passions to turn to anger toward their brothers, either who are or who are not Calvinist. When that anger against the viewpoint is in our hearts we are tempted, when we meet someone who follows one way or the other we may transfer that anger towards them then we sin. We are called to love one another, Calvinism is debatable, love for your brother and sister in Christ is not. In fact as an avid non-Calvinist I have found great value in Calvinism. Why? Because I have spent more time in the Word because of it, challenged to think critically about what Scripture says. Whether or not I agree or disagree with Calvinism, if we all agreed we would spend less time thinking critically about what the Bible says. Thinking critically about one thing teaches us to think critically about the central issues of Christianity so that we can defend what we believe with reason. Furthermore, we are tested against temptation, do we allow our pride in our viewpoint to allow us to disobey the Word of God and murder our brothers and sisters in faith? (This can go with eschatology too). Finally, when you see a debate on Calvinism, when they are of one mind in terms of respect and faith in Christ, it can be truly edifying to study the Scripture and think critically on the subject, taking into account what both sides argue (not argue in a bad way).
@@ShepherdMinistry hmm, my point wasn't to debate Calvinism, but to demonstrate how we can become angry at our brothers for not agreeing with our theology, when there is Biblical arguments supporting both sides. When we explore the topic of Calvinism we gain a deeper understanding of the Word regardless of what side you take. When we do debate the issue we are driven to study even deeper. But, when we are angry because someone disagrees we sin. Please keep in mind I know there is heresy, I do not think either side is heretical when they follow Biblical principals. But, some heretical doctrines do fall stray from both sides.
I used inflammatory words to demonstrate how people become angry about it and can easily be tempted into sin. I could easily become angry because I believe strongly, but that is my pride.
I totally disagree with calvanism and especially their view of if you don't believe in calvanism you're automatically an arminian. The term Calvinist and arminian are no where in the Bible. Therefore it's false teachings ADDING to the word of God. No TULIP verbatim anywhere in the Bible either. Calvanism came straight from the pits of hell and will drag anyone to outer darkness who become ensnared in it's lies.
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. Philippians 2:13 NIV Even though God gives us free will yet He still knows what we'll choose. Great video on explaining. Blessings
“For he saith to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.’ So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.” Romans 9:15-16 KJV
Great honesty. So relieved to hear that I’m not alone in my partial Calvinist thinking. Thought, is it possible that God didn’t predetermine our coming too the faith but he “knew “ what we would do .
Hello Brother, can you have a discussion with Leighton Flowers? Born again believers who are not Calvinist can still center around the sovereignty of God.
For me personally, I am a five point. I cannot in any way shape or form think that I could've become a Christian without God having predestined me to be his. I know where God brought me from, and still delivering me. No way I would've said yes on my own, even with hearing the gospel. But I do still struggle with limited atonement as a whole. Ill probably be wrestling with that until I see His face, smiling of course. I come from the Armenian camp. So I would say I'm a 4.75 on the Calvinist scale. 100% percent regular Christian, thrilled that God knows my name. Thank you for your channel. God bless you and your family.
This was a great unpacking of the whole Calvinist bit, Allen! Very clear and to-the-point. I think you're right to wrestle with points three and four, for sure. Nice share!
I am coming out of Calvinism. I believe it’s damaging and contradicts all the other scriptures about Christ, His love, dying for the whole world, etc. Saying He only died for some just contradicts so much. Calvinists have a few scriptures they use most taken out of context. So many people on RUclips like Leighton flowers can explain it better than me. What a dreadful doctrine
Like you, I “wrestled” with this issue for years. I prayed hard for God to show me the right direction to believe on this issue. Finally I realized the John 3:16 is the answer. It doesn’t say “For God so loved the elect” it says the world. Like you there are elements of Calvinism I agree with, like total depravity of man, but others I don’t agree with. I also felt like when Jesus gave the command to share the Gospel with the world, He meant just that. I finally put it to rest in my mind by deciding that I follow Jesus period. Not a theologian. I truly believe when we stand before Jesus He won’t ask which theology I believed. I’m so thankful to be saved by Jesus. Allen, I enjoy your videos.
Mr. Parr, I truly appreciate your points in this video. I subscribe to the Westminster Standards but I wrestle with theology too. And I think it is so important to give people the freedom to do the same. We are Christian brothers and sisters and to our master alone do we stand or fall. May we stand by the power of Jesus, the righteous one. By faith in Christ, I am righteous before God and heir to life everlasting--without any merit of my own, by sheer grace!
Great video. As a soteriology 101 regular, It'd be great if you could contact Leighton Flowers. He would love to have you on his show to discuss these things. God bless
Appreciate your channel Allen. You should have Leighton Flowers on your show. Interview him on your show. That would be a great talk, you are both cordial, kind and interested in thinking!
@@jonanthony3913 I see, but do you have any specific example of #1 misrepresenting Calvinism? Do you have any examples? I also, don't see the "slander" (the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.) examples either but we can stick with #1 for now. Thanks brother.
I will never call myself a "Calvinist" or an "Arminian." To do so is to do the same that the Corinthians did: "I follow Peter." or "I follow Apollos." (1 Corinthians 3:4). I follow Christ. I agree in some places with Calvin, just like I agree with my pastor or my God-fearing friends in certain areas but not in others. However, I won't identify myself with Calvin or as a Calvinist. I identify myself in Christ alone.
Take a chance to listen to Leighton Flowers at his RUclips channel Soteriology 101, as well as William Lane Craig’s Molinist perspective if you haven’t. Because of the current popularity of Calvinistic preachers, organizations, and resources you often don’t come across the best scholars and resources from a more Arminian perspective. If you really care about truth listen to and understand the best presentation of different perspectives before you solidify yourself into one. Love and grace to everyone
So glad you mentioned that it's OK to wrestle with theology! Obviously stuff like the trinity and deity of Christ is non negotiable but things such as limited atonement are not worth falling out over ! God bless
I’m a 5-pointer through and through! I must admit, I totally understand the struggle of wrestling with it. Every calvinist struggles with these doctrines before accepting them, so it’s not unreasonable to wrestle with it
Because in order for you to be correct, that would mean that God would have to force people to not believe in him, send them to hell and it would be the fault of the people who physically not choose to believe in him. I would rather die than believe in calvanism.
God is NOT the author of confusion, why do so many Calvinist believe in Calvinism yet they don't understand it. They wrestle with it? We need to be deserning. 2 Chorinthians 11:4, Galatians 1:8. I have asked Calvinist MANY questions, they don't have an answer. They always get angry. The truth never minds being questioned, we always get to speak truth in Love.
I appreciate this so much Pastor Parr, it helped me realoze it is okay to wrestle with theology. I often feel like I have to figure everything out right now, but I dont. I can take my time as long as I keep close the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Thank you for this video, Pastor Allen! An amazing resource! With you re: the wrestling, as well as with your convictions re God’s Word. #trustingHim “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.” 1 Corinthians 2:2 “I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.” Galatians 2:20
Brother Allan, I believe the problem with Calvinism is that some of the terms are correct (for example yes I agree with total depravity) , in Calvinism these things often mean something different other Christians (by the way there’s more than just Calvinism and Arminianism). False dichotomy fallacy is VERY prevalent with many Calvinist teachers. The verses you have as proof texts for Calvinism all have other non Calvinist interpretations which in my opinion flow better with the whole canon of scripture and character of God. You missed the entire divine determinism of Calvinism as well which really makes the entire system fall apart. Soteriology 101 has TONS of videos on all of the things you described including going through tulip. Calvinism…no no way. Still Christians , many good folks affirm Calvinism but there is a reason it does out all the time… I’ve listened to you long enough, no you aren’t a Calvinist, don’t get caught in the wave…
Great response, thank you. As you mentioned, there are very sound and plausible interpretations of these passages that can be used in a non-Calvinist manner. Ultimately I think these manmade systems that are devised to attempt to understand the way God's infinite nature works are just exercises in futility, and the truth is a composite of more than one angle.
I'm super excited about this video because so many people have asked me, "Brother Allen, are you a Calvinist?" Well, I answer that in this video along with really explaining some of the specifics as it relates to Calvinism. Let me know below what direction, if any, you personally lean. I'm looking forward to reading your comments!
Thanks for making this video brother!
Amen, glory hallelujah to the King.
Hebrews 12:2 👑
I really appreciate these types of videos! Thank you Pastor Allen🙏
Great job, I'm just about in the same mind regarding these points. Are you going to do an arminianism video?
I've come across about Calvinism 6 years ago ., I can't agree to some of it too and with your video I am more clear about it. Also first time to get this TULIP acronym of calvinism. And I can guarantee millions of Christians don't have any idea about this too. Im sure this will give clarity. In regard with election and predestination I think we can study carefully Ephesians 1 and note all Or underline the "in Christ'". , and see what the Holy Spirit teaches us.
Less division... more humility and humbleness in the body of Christ! Looks like Alan and I have these few points and things we wrestle with concluding on in common right now. God bless, and thank you brother Alan!
Yes, Thank You Allen for this much needed video, for that information. I like it that it wasn't a long video. I will need to rewatch it, for it to sink in. God Bless You, Your Family, and Your Ministry.
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Absolutely! We need way more kind, respectful discussions around controversial subjects like this!
“4-point Calvinists? We call those arminians!” -R.C. Sproul 😜
Yesssss!!! I loved that line.
🤪😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
😂
So if you don't 100% agree with a theologian on all their thoughts, it must mean you 100% agree with some other theologian? Even though there's been thousands of theologians? These guys are not the ultimate authorities on these topics. It seems like such a false dilemma. Just wanted to put that out there. I think Non-Calvinists are very misrepresented by Calvinists.
@@liesbethvanham5443 amen! Check out Mike Winger's expository teachings on Calvanism and why it's unbiblical
...he is not Arminian and I am also on neither side 100 percent. God bless you sister
I knew of two calvinist preachers who turned away two individuals who came forward to accept Jesus as Savior because they deemed they didn't know enough about scripture and thus couldn't be elect. They just wanted Christ's offer of mercy and were turned away. One of the preachers told a small child she might not be one of God's chosen when she came forward to accept Christ. I've never had a good interaction with a calvinist who believes God picks who will and won't go to Heaven.
This video was a blessing to me. I have recently FINALLY started studying my Bible on a higher lever after being saved for nearly 19 years. I've read it from beginning to end, taken classes, etc. but I've found myself at a crossroad questioning some of the Charismatic practices I learned as a student and leader and what is trully Biblical. I've started studying Calvinism and Arminism and where I stand on these principles, but not as a dogmatic classification of who I am. I just know that I love Jesus, He's my Lord and Savior, and my responsibility as a Believer is to go into the world and make disciples of men. Like you, I admit that I struggle with the same principes of Calvinism that you do. I also believe that once saved, always saved but in the context that if a person has truly become saved and yielded to God, God will "hold" us as we perservere until our final day. Those who turn away from Him and never return, were never saved to begin with. I believe the words of Christ, "And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day." John 6:39
Maybe you will enjoy this
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Thank you for your honesty because it has encouraged me to just take a breather! It’s so easy for younger Christians like myself to try and create this neatly packaged theology feeling as if we need all of our theology sorted out in order to be a mature Christian.
Great point. It reminds me of Paul writing to the church in Corinth. Paul said they still needed milk and were not ready for meat. They were immature not because of theology but because of their disobedience. I learned a lot about Scripture and really thought I was special until I realized all I had learned was not being practiced. Knowledge of God is pointless if it doesn't change us. In other words, mature Christians are doers of the Word. Theology is very important. The word litterally means The Study of God Theos=God Ology=Study. But the mature Christian practices the truths learned from the study of God. Sounds like you're more mature than you thought sister. 😉 God Bless
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@@DanielMotesSEO what a great comment!! And this is so true!! I see so many weighted down and unsettled trying to figure the "correct" theology...And it's like if we would just take a step back, and take a long good look at God's word (I'm visualizing a man looking at and pondering a beautiful painting ) we would see it's right in front of our faces!!! God does not want our sacrifice, He wants our hearts, our devotion. It's all about Him and how we respond to Him! Being a doer of God's word shows our love and heart and devotion to God, and that's what we want to be more concerned with. Not trying to figure out the ways of God, like these 2 smart men did!! That's all I see is men trying to figure out the ways of God!! Not saying it's bad to study theology, like you said the study of God, but to not get so wrapped up in something we can't fully understand that we make a whole "theology" on it, that totally trips people up. It causes people to look to it, rather then to look to God and His word!! It is simple, Go to God, love and honor with all your heart. Kiss the king and devote your attention and your life to Him.
God bless
@@jenn5773 Yeah I agree. Theology is important because we are told to worship in Spirit and truth. But getting stuck on one topic isn't wise. Even the prince of preachers (as they called him) Charles Spurgeon was a Calvinist but he wrote a sermon telling people to avoid preachers that ONLY talk about election and predestination. Spurgeon was very balanced. Although he wanted others to see the blessing of election for the believer, he knew the heart of the Gospel was Christ crucified for sinners.
Really good response! Be encouraged that this walk with the LORD is about growth and He knows where you are at every stage of your development and the earnestness you have in getting to know Him. It took me decades to learn - and I hope I have learned - that we must be patient with Him, patient with others, and patient with ourselves.
I will not try to throttle a youthful believer like yourself to, "take it slow." No, I encourage you to run as hard and as fast and as far as you can for Christ now before the Enemy discovers ways to hinder you. Learn all you can and shine all you can for Jesus. And don't get discouraged: He told us, "In the World ye shall have tribulation" - He didn't sugar-coat the journey we have ahead of us. He also gave us something to hold on to when He finished His declaration, "Be of good cheer: I have overcome the World." (John 16:33)
Great video man, I'm a calvinist, but don't care much about the terminology I just like to say I'm a Bible believing Christian. Also I'm cool with where anyone lands as long as they have a biblical conviction behind it.
I like to say I believe in The Doctrines of Grace as I don’t follow Calvin, but Christ.
@@armac8158 yeah that’s a solid answer, might steal that!
Nicely stated Jon.
Amen 🙏🏻
@@armac8158 “doctrines of grace” is just a rebranding tactic to deceive more into adopting Calvin’s system. It’s a dishonest way of communicating. We all think we are followers of Christ regardless of theological conviction. Whether you like it or not, Calvin has influenced your theology more than Christ, even if you prefer to call it doctrines of grace.
Yes, I'm almost exactly where you are, brother Allen, and I have been follower of Christ for 45 years now. I've taken undergraduate and graduate level theology classes, have a Master of Divinity degree, and I was a pastor for 10 years. Yet I still find myself in the same predicament you're voicing here. The limited atonement I keep vacillating on what the scriptures teach. Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement, ask me next week I may not be so sure 😉. I have a hunch there are many like us on this point. But I have no doubt when we see Jesus it will all be clear! For sure, none of us have it all figured out, nor will any of us be 100% right on 100% of theology. But that doesn't stop me from continuing to learn and seek to understand and grow in knowing the Lord. We are all in process, and as long as we are heading in the right direction, well, that's what I believe matters most.
W. M., I can empathize with you. Rather than going on here, I'd be curious to see what you think of my response to Allen's video and questions. 👋🎶
"Today I'm leaning more toward limited atonement" Well if it turns out you are not elected, your 45 years and your Pastoring etc etc have been a complete waste of time. That's what you are in effect saying.
@@davewatson2124 ......Watch what you say
@@davewatson2124 no, I know I'm elected, I'm just not sure how from God's perspective.
@@jayheinz4624 I would, except there's to date 764 comments and I don't have the time to look for yours 😅
Thanks Allen, didn’t knew what Calvinism was before now. From your explanation, I consider myself not a Calvinist, but a follower of Christ. You are doing great, I have learnt a lot from you about what it takes to be a good and faithful Christian. God bless
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Yes, this was a very good introduction for the topic. It is definitely good to just be a Christian, but it is also good to understand the deeper issues in the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate! God bless!
This verse unequivocally vaporizes the idea of limited atonement:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world
Even if a Calvinist tries to say that words like "us" or "our" refer to the elect, this verse says NOT for US ONLY, but FOR the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.
Amen, settled.
The problem is that Calvinists don’t care what the Bible says. If their ideology says something different that’s what they adhere to. They see the world through TULIP coloured glasses.
I think that Jesus died for the WHOLE world, that Jesus had the punishment for ALL sin, but the atonement of that price was limited to those who believe. So yes, the efficacy is enough to pay for everyone's, but we are not universalists.
Limited atonement is absolutely wild.
I consider myself a plain old Christian. LOL. This was so helpful to me. You broke down Calvinism, making it understandable. Thank you
As a Christian that working on my faith and relationship with God, so I have to say I'll just stick with being a Christian stick to the Bible.
Have you imagined that John Calvin, or Calvinists in general, do not stick with the Bible?
The Bible is what made me a five point calvinist.
I've never heard of a 3-point, 4-point and 5-point Calvinist. I'm watching to the end. Thanks brother.
Same here, so i give God Thanks and Praise, that we have Allen to explain.
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There is no such thing as a 2, 3, or 4 point Calvinist.
Anyone who claims that doesn’t understand what calvinism is.
The foundation of calvinism is point 1 total depravity. All other points are built off point one and support each other. If you reject some points than you reject the entire system. Majority of calvinist have horrible inconsistencies and double standards because they lack the knowledge of what calvinism is.
Calvinism is a horrible doctrine meant to cause division and confusion among believers. This video only perpetuates the problem.
Run away from calvinism never look back.
Good job explaining this. No question, I am NOT a Calvinist.
don‘t let it be an emotional, but rather a theological choice.
@@SavedRickAstley I am emotional about the Gospel.
@@jerryschneider145 So you you believe Calvinists have a false gospel?
@@innovationhq8230 Yes
@@lindsaygraham9115 are people not born in sin or born sinners ?
Dude! I appreciate the honesty! If you do not struggle with scripture there is a problem. I use to struggle with limited atonement and irresistible grace, but now I have peace on these issues. I am a Calvinist not because of 5 points or John Calvin, but through the study of scripture.
Leighton flowers invited you onto his show and just did a video on your vid. Check it out!
Nice breakdown of the subject. I remember my first pastorate had a few Calvinists who held strongly to their positions. As a pastor in a new church I had to carefully navigate the TULIP land mine. Ultimately it was about agreeing on the essentials.
Thank you brother Allen for breaking things down... Praise God for how he's using you as you exercise your gifts for the Kingdom...Many blessings to you and your family!!!
I'm so shocked 😲 I've been following Allen par for some years. Never would I imagine he was a Calvinist. He's a good teacher, but I I didn't always agree with his theology for the past few years I've been watching him. I do agree with many things that he teaches, but I guess now I understand why something always felt different. I pray God keep revealing His truth to Allen so that he can find better clarity for the things he is wrestling with and doesn't understand. God bless
Your spot on! Sadly he is leading many into a false doctrine
Not the first time I've listened to someone unknowingly being indoctrinated.ex. I had listened to John McArthur for about a year unknowingly bring indoctrinated into this calvinist theology.
Appreciate the video. Honestly this was one of the things I struggled with in seminary and was pretty discouraging at times as my classmates tried to put labels on me. I really didn't appreciate it nor did I like it. I'm like you and just consider myself a Christian who is growing in his faith and trying to discern what God says in his word. I shy away from proclaiming I'm a calvinist in any way because that seems to indicate you're a follower of John Calvin. Haha. There are things I agree with in Calvinism and there are things I agree with in armenianism so I guess I'm a hybrid. Haha. I just love the Lord and I want to try to look like him every day as he teaches me more about who he is. Thanks for your consistency
I think the issue even from a non seminary student is if God knows the future then from the human POV it looks like predestination. I think in reality both points exist as clearly God knows the future but He is definitely holding you to your actions and beliefs.
I think being classic liberals in democracies we have issues with free will violations in the Bible but the story of Pharaoh having his heart hardened against Moses and the Devil going into Judas seems to heavily imply there are at least two examples of people having their free will over rode by God or Satan. Now in both cases you can argue their souls were primed for such an event but still it occurred. That would imply Pharaoh would have backed down sooner and that Judas wouldn't have betrayed Jesus to the point He'd have been killed.
As for predestination, Jesus knows Judas will betray Him and calls Judas out and also tells Peter that he will betray Jesus 3 times. Now it is heavily implied Judas is in Hell and Peter is in Heaven, so Jesus knew what both men would do and what would happen in the long run to both men for their actions.
I think it comes down to what kind of Christian you are, if you came in for the 2 hour long sessions of music and Ned Flanders version of Christianity you feel Calvinism is wrong but yet you can't explain how God knows the future much less why Satan would continue his pointless battle against a God who's own angel Michael is still stronger than you. On the other side the Calvinists do sound a little too harsh and it's a bit esoteric of a point that will go over most people's heads because they don't think about how God knows the future. I would go as far to say that while I agree with a lot of Calvinism it was probably an idea that didn't need to be brought up because it scares off Ned Flanders Christians if they think about it.
Also I would argue that one of my issues as a protestant in general is overly committing to ideas to the point we split off from each other pointlessly. If that contention wasn't there America would have at least specified to be a Christian nation.
GREAT SEGMENT! I am Reformed in my theology, which means I agree with the five points. But my Christian life didn’t start out this way. I began as a free-will Arminian. After years of careful study and then accepting/believing what the Word says, I am now firmly convinced (in heart and mind) that the Reformed view is the “most” biblical.
Like you Allen, I do not use or embrace the label of being a Calvinists. Simply because I have reached the same conclusions as John Calvin does not make me one of his disciples. I frequently challenge those who want to wear the title of Calvinist instead of “Christian.” John Calvin never saved anyone, nor could he ever be the propitiation for anyone’s sin, so I believe it dishonors the Father and the Son for the redeemed to call themselves by any other name. I believe a Christian referring to him/herself by their denomination or by their hero is a precisely what Paul condemned in 1 Corinthians 3:4-9.
“Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
Love your ministry! Keep up the good work.
Amen amen brother..!! Totally agree with you.. it’s so sad how so so many brothers and sisters don’t see it that way.. I truly believe that the Father just shakes his head with displeasure… seriously… we break his heart enough those who are in rebellion and living wicked lifestyles … to then see the church fight and argue.. 🤦🏽♂️.. God be with you brother..!!!
Amen!!
I'm also reformed and don't believe in labels or doctrine or theology as much as I care about Jesus Christ
Do you accept the many other aspects of Reformed theology since it's much more then just TULIP?
Predeterminism entered the church in the 5th century from Augustine, a former Stoic and Manachian Gnostic. The early church fathers taught against this doctrine for 4 centuries before Augustine.
Dr. Leighton Flowers has a channel called Soteriology 101 which focuses mainly on this debate. He is a former Calvinist. I recently read John Lennox's "Determined to Believe" and thought that was really excellent. The main struggle I have as a non-Calvinist is that it seems like people assume that if you're not Calvinist then the only other option is Arminian. I'm also not Arminian. I think both Calvin and Arminius tried to explain their theology on determinism, free will and sovereignty, but they are not ultimate authorities on these topics and there have been many other theologians since who don't necessarily 100% agree with the entirety of their views.
Would you consider yourself to be a Provisionist?
Spot on. Love way you explain. The thing that gets my back up is that calvanists I have met seem to assume they are the authority. They seem unaware that they are peddling a systematic theology with holes in it and not The bible. 5 points of calvanism and armanisim have flaws becuase both are mans attempts to explain the bible and salvation in a water tight argument. It dosent work. I have major issues with nearly all 5 points of calvanism.
To me the early church didnt focus on petty arguments.
They preached the gospel to All, they assumed All could be saved to the uttermost. They knew all wouldn't be saved but preached as if all could. Thos overemphasis on Gods sovereignity makes Christian's inactive and as John Wesley warned " They fall into the sleep of calvanisin".
Flowers’ view is called Provisionism (God has provided the means for everyone to have the repentance and faith necessary to be saved). That’s what I believe. I also recommend this channel.
Flowers is an absolute mess.
@@innovationhq8230 let's not just go around making claims without providing reasons.
For anyone wrestling with the "irresistible grace" point, I have a friend whose father got saved at 90 years of age. He started being active in the church playing guitar in the band on Sundays. He died less than three years later. He lived in the world doing the things of the world for 89 years, but God knew He would save him the entire time. God gives the elect the measure of faith we need to accept Him. As He draws the elect, we will eventually give our lives to Him.
WOW! You have given me something to look in to. Prior to this video, I had heard the term, “Calvin, Calvinism, Calvinist” but just thought he was a “pre-Billy Graham”. Going off the definitions you lay out, I can’t put myself into a 3,4 or5 point category. I’m a Christian. Jesus Christ & Him crucified, that’s my ism.
Amen! ✝️
Dr. Flowers did a great response to this… you should go on his channel and talk this through
I really loved what you had to say. Conversations like this really sharpen us. One point I would like to mention is that. Making a decision is not a work. For example, I could be sitting on the couch and could make a decision or put faith in that, blue is the best color and is better then every other color. All I had been doing was thinking and made a decision. Making a decision and or putting faith in something does not imply that it’s a work.
12:34 - “I don’t like to categorize myself by a particular theologian. I like to categorize myself as a basic Christian.”
I’m the same way! I agree with Calvin, Arminius, and other theologians as far as they agree with the Scriptures.
The problem is conditional salvation Arminians are heretics.
@@johntrevett2944 why? And how. If I understand conditional salvation is that God extend is grace of Salvation and we can choose to respond to it or not right?
@@citamora Conditional security is acceptable only to those who also believe that they somehow contributed to their salvation in the first place (which Arminian theology logically implies). But this flies in the face of such passages as Ephesians 2:8-9: “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works, so that no one can boast,” which clearly assert that we contribute absolutely nothing to our salvation; even the faith necessary to receive the gift of grace, is itself a gift of God.
On the other hand, Arminianism gives man a reason to boast in the end. If by my cooperation with the Spirit of God I remain faithful to the end, I can boast (a little) about how I was able to stay the course and finish the race. However, there will be no boasting in heaven except to boast in the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:31). The doctrine of conditional security is not biblical; the Bible is quite clear that we persevere because God preserves us.
The ability to chose, could be a result of grace. I don't like the idea of some being incapable of coming to salvation.
@@biglewlc12 Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Yo. I, like you, also struggled with limited atonement when it was really new to Reformed theology. It made me despondent. The idea that there is no hope outside of God's Grace made me very sad. After dwelling on it for a while and praying about it, I heard an argument made by John McArthur that helped me a little. But it wasn't until I looked to the old testament that I found my answer. The destruction of the world through the flood and the pruning of Sodom & Gomorrah put into perspective for me. It isn't that God wants to just flippantly kill his people. It's just that evil must be killed for goodness to prevail. Both instances were used to bring salvation to the rest of the world by seeing the consequences of their sin. And instead of being sad about it, I should be grateful that the Lord saw fit to spare me.
@cdr 777 I like how you put this!.. some similarities to my response I posted. And if you don't mind me adding, Dr Andrew Farley. He answers these above questions so well on his life call in radio show. It's on at 7: 03 Central everyday. 👋🎶
Michael, I can sympathize with what you're saying.. rather than me going on here, check out my previous comment to Allen and let me know what you think. 👋🎶
That's a good point. However listen to what God says not John Mccarthur. The scripture says God has no pleasure in the death of the wicked but rather he should turn and live. See Gods word says God does not want the death of the wicked, God gives them the opportunity to.repent.
The huge issue with calvanism is they believe God created people with the intention of sending them to Hell. Augustine believed this. See how far removed this idea is from Gods will.
@@jasonpellegrini7148 good points Jason!!! And also about Augustine.. and if you also look at where the concept of hell came from, you'll see Augustine and early church fathers took it from the teachings of Socrates and Plato.. you'll see Turtullian it's the one that spearheaded and put together the concept of a fiery hell, Hades down under the ground.. check out Edward fudges videos on this.. I think you'll find them very interesting.
@cdr 777 Absolutely great point!🙏🏾
Alan I’d love to see you and Leighton Flowers have a dialog on this issue. I know he’d like that too and he’d be very respectful. Soteriology 101.
Oh wow I am pretty much exactly where you are at the moment! Thank you for sharing. The first time reading through the Bible His sovereignty stuck out so strongly to me and I didn’t come away really at all on the Arminian side. Remembering when I got saved it seemed like He completely enabled me to believe, as I had heard the gospel hundreds if not thousands of times before that. The light bulb just went off and I was able to see, but it seemed like it wasn’t from me at all. A few minutes after I believed, I received prayer for my bad neck and the Holy Spirit started moving in me as soon as they started praying (just a prayer of faith nothing weird!), and He completely healed it. As I look back it was like I had received this gift of faith to finally believe and it was so strong that believing He could heal my neck was no problem at all to me. It was a childlike faith. I walked outside after and the trees and sky looked brighter. Stopped taking pills and wanting to die after that day. Needless to say it was quite the day! Love you Jesus!
Why would God "force" you essentially to come to him and not force himself on others? Because that's what you're saying. What's so special about you over the millions who have rejected God? Why isn't it that He just extended an invitation to you (as he does with everyone else) but you chose (exercised your free will) to accept it and went to Him?
RC Sproul had a great explanation of what “free will” actually is. It is not the ability to choose or not, as if you really can’t use your own will. It _is,_ however, when your will *becomes* freed from your innate, sinful will. He also said, there is really no such thing as being anything other than a 5 point Calvinist. You’re either all 5, or you’re not a Calvinist.
Thank you both for your breakdown and your honesty. It is part off what lead me to this channel. I struggle with these points for year, having been an Armenian and raised in Armenian churches. It took understanding the Total Depravity to its fullest extent to lead me to where I would say I am basically a 5 point Calvanist.
Total depravity and double predestination implies that the people going to hell are not responsible for that. God just arbitrarily decided he wasn't going to regenerate those people. No wonder so many Calvinists turn athiests
@@User_Happy35 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@User_Happy35 You are not representing Calvinism correctly. God is not the author of Sin and does not tempt or cause anyone to sin. Man does it on his own. No one will be in hell that doesn’t deserve it.
God bless,
SM
@@ShepherdMinistry This is excatly what calvinism teaches, they will say man is the one sinning but they are sinning becasue God gave them the desire to sin and also ordained that they would sin, they could not do any other. So not sure how you are defining author of sin or what sense you mean he does not tempt but in a calvinist world view God is the one who desires and ordains sins and is also the one who gives man the desires in himself to act out sin. This to me sounds like tempting and authoring,
@@danm4580 You are trying to explain something you don’t understand. That is the problem. God does not make us sin. That would make God evil.
“He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.”
1 John 2:2
I am more of a Baptist "traditional" view of soteriology. I am always examining my beliefs in view of the Word and it seems like you are, too. If you have time, check out Soteriology 101's response to your video. A lot of Calvinists don't understand our view and it might enlighten you on another perspective. Thanks.
One of the most encouraging things I’ve seen in a long time is how civil these comments are.
My personal take is that it’s really hard for me to take a stance and equivocally say that I understand how the sovereignty of God interacts with man’s free will. It’s just one of these things that I don’t know if I will ever truly understand.
But what I do understand is that we are One Body of One Church of One Christ whose mission is to preach Christ and His Resurrection so seeing nothing but uplifting comments is so encouraging.
Loved this! Thank you for this educational video about an important topic of theology. I was curious if you would ever do a series on Church history or important people of church history? That would be an awesome series!
This is a really great video, delivered with courage, care and clarity. Thank you for putting this all so very well, without tangling up the theology and maintaining a strong focus throughout. I consider myself, perhaps like yourself in some ways, a humble follower of Jesus, that is, a simple Christian. I am not a huge fan of simplistic labels so much - theology isn't about picking a football team, you know!! So I do agree with some of the Calvinist five points - but firmly reject the others. I am no TULIP - more of a TP kind of guy!. Some may even say that I embrace aspects of Arminianism - but that's also not so straightforward either. I find WLC's position of Molinism quite interesting, but there are plenty of bones to pick there. I suggest that every theologian is wrong about some aspect of theology - no one is perfect, apart from God, of course. I love your honesty, but we probably don't entirely share an identical theology in every respect, sir!
Brother Allen, thank you for that breakdown. I've been a believer for over 20+ years but it wasn't until about 7 years ago that I started wrestling with these concepts. I would consider myself more of a Molinist. It's an alternate view that attempts to reconcile the Calvinist vs Arminian debate. William Lane Craig and Alvin Platinga are some notable modern day proponents. Also, I think Mike Winger has mentioned he leans in this direction.
Yo Mr. Parr! You were called out by the originator of the Provisionist movement! Leighton Flowers did a whole show on you. Like you, he is a loving brother in Christ who I would pay to see you discuss and explore Calvinism with. He is an expert Soteriologist and very VERY kind, especially to brothers who are filled with the Spirit 😃
Thumbs if you'd like to see a cross-over video!
I like your honesty. Each of us have our own walk with the lord. Seek him and he will reveal himself and the truth with you.🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I have been wrestling with this issue for a year, I think it would be AMAZING if you and mike winger had live stream discussing this
Great explanation of Calvinism, thank you for breaking it down.
Whenever someone asks me this, I say I am a Christian with a reformed baptist theology. I don’t follow John Calvin, I follow Christ and try to live by the Bible day by day
Amen 🙏🏽
Why not just tell the truth though? You know reformed Baptist theology comes from Calvin himself. We all follow Christ, just be up front about where your beliefs come from, it’s only for the goal of winning someone to your theological stance to hide Calvinism with a different name.
Do you believe in free will to choose to believe in Jesus?
Which is what Calvin did, Paul said follow me as I follow Christ. If you live by the bible you are following the writers that was inspired by God, so was Augustine, Calvin, Martin Luther, Paul etc.
@@nesto2851 Jesus said no man can to me unless my father sends them. John 6:37. "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away." ...
John 6:44,65
John 15:16.
Acts 13:48
Romans 9:16,22,23.
Galatians 1:15,16
Ephesians 1:4,5
II Thessalonians 2:13
Brother Allen - Thank you for creating and sharing this great video. It has made me want to talk more about this with my pastor!!! I belong to a small Reformed church in North Carolina. We are a beautiful family of people, and it doesn’t matter if someone may disagree with you on some things or not!!!
I have views that align with both a mix of Calvinism and Arminianism as it pertains to Soteriology. A part of me at times wants to dive right into being a full blown Calvinist based on my own conversion experience, but trusting in personal experience is one of the many reasons I object to the Charasmatic movement vehemently. Funny this morning spent the better part of it conversating with a young woman on this topic, as she is theologically Reformed, and we went in depth into my views Soteriologically. It was actually refreshing to have a conversation on my theology, referencing supporting scripture, and really calling to remembrance the time when the Lord made me a heir of eternal life!
Thank you Allen, I appreciate your content. Soteriology 101 / Leighton Flowers does a good job with this subject in my opinion. Love you.
Dr Leighton Flowers response to this video is here, hope Allen replies, ruclips.net/video/3jgex7-nuE0/видео.html
Hey allen how about a part 2 of this on leighton flowers channel he reviewed this video and invited ya on
🔥🔥🔥 I think that most people that are not fanatics when it comes to Calvinism will land where you are Allen. I myself have the same frame of thought as you do!!! I struggle with the same points of Calvinism you do.
I think that overall we should all aim to understand scripture and look at God's writings through the holy spirit and not so much from a man made theological lense. I think when we do this God allows us to struggle with the things HE wants us to struggle with and affirms the things HE wants us to affirm.
And when you do see the scripture through The Holy Spirit lens. You will see the error. I struggle with Calvinism for like a 3 months straight. I thought I was loosing my faith.
It is based on false premises and should be thrown out completely. It is much easier to just read Scripture and form views based on that rather than try to conform to premade false dichotomies and views that are formed by philosophy.
Reading the Bible is very confusing to me but last week i found your u tube and after listening to several of your videos,the way you break things down, I now know i'm going to heaven.
GOD BLESS YOU FOR THE TIME AND EFFORT YOU PUT HEREE FOR US
BOB LECH
Hey Allen, this video has been critiqued by Leighton Flowers over at Soteriology101.
Talk to Flowers please
I didn’t know what Calvinism was during the pandemic I really focused on my relationship with Christ I prayed a lot ask God to lead me to teachers and preachers of the gospel I could listen to. I started seeing sermons from RC Sproul John MacArthur Voddie Baucham I found the sermons to be very rich in Theology and answered several questions I had. RC does a phenomenal job explaining and teaching even what different words meant in the original text. I don’t like the term Calvinism as it puts the focus on the man instead of the message. RC Sprouls lectures have helped me tremendously and I would rather believe God did the work than that anything I did or will do helped the process. If Jesus died for the whole world then and will not lose any that the Father gave to Him then the whole world would be saved. RC broke this down explained the the word world is used in different ways and doesn’t always mean the same thing. At the end of the day God determined some will get Grace some will get justice but no one will get injustice and I’m grateful and beyond humbled He chose me for Grace. Be blessed all
Yes.
R.C. Sproul is/was the most expert at explaining difficult concepts in theology. Voddie B comes in a close second, also great in shutting down political partisan ideology posing as wisdom for Christian living in the post-modern society. He shows that nothing is new under the sun.
..
I’d encourage you to keep searching. Check out channels called Beyond the fundamentals or Soteriology 101. Rc made a living misrepresenting opposing views. At least objectively listen to those channels I suggested and make an informed decision who is preaching truth.
@@WoodrowKlassen7 why would you say Calvinism is false?
@@ShepherdMinistry opposite reason of why you think it’s true.
@@WoodrowKlassen7 Well I would say faith is a gift. So you’re saying it’s not a gift from God?
Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
We see here faith, grace, the entirety of salvation is a gift.
God bless,
SM
Thank you so much for this very important video brother Alan! I have seen some christians treat Calvinists as if they were evil people and was wondering what calvinism is all about. There are some points I didn't understand much yet, but I couldn't see why some are hating on Calvinists so much. I saw something really important from the points Calvin made, he believes that God has complete Authority and he still loves God believing God elects some people for salvation, he loves God no matter what! He must have been very humble and in complete submission to God!
I think you did a really good job with this video. You were impartial in your explanations and unequivocally fair.
Think this through. This one verse (there are many others) refutes hyper Calvinism; Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." If Calvinism were true, the verse would/must say, "Few are chosen."
VERSE OF THE DAY: God blesses those who are merciful, for they will be shown mercy. ~Matthew 5:7
Brother Allen please have a look at this video. Brother Leighton Flowers would love to have a discussion with you, if you're up for it. God bless you Allen. ❤🙏🏽
ruclips.net/video/3jgex7-nuE0/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/3jgex7-nuE0/видео.html
Love this video and I don’t like being labeled, but in the words of Mark Driscoll “ I’m not a Calvinist, I just believe in what he taught” The late Dr. RC Sproul a well know reformed theologian and philosopher had issues with the semantics of TUILP and thought the acronym was very misleading, causing confusion and division. So RC redefined the teaching that’s fit a more biblical understanding of what reformers believe. 1). Radical Corruption 2). Sovereign Election 3). Definite Redemption or Definite Atonement 4). Effectual Grace 5). Preservation of the saints (RSDEP)
One thing I notice about calvanist is they quote calvanist theologians a lot at times almost as if theologians quotes have the same authority as scripture itself.
That's why many of them are decieved following men more than what the Bible says verbatim.
When you study scripture through the lenses of a blind man, you'll be just as blind as he.
@@TheLegacy87 Part and partially I agree, but most of what you’re saying is is judgement without knowledge. What do you know about reformation? And why was there a reformation? Do you know all the denominations in America are reformed, for the exception of Catholicism and Greek orthodoxy? Also what does it mean in John 16:13 when Jesus says “When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth…” or is that passage saying that God’s Spirit will work alone or though God ordained teachers?
Let me help you out…just a little bit. Sound doctrine has to be taught, no one learns sound doctrine by THEMSELVES-NO ONE! Bible dictionaries, Hebrew and Greek lexicons, commentaries, bible translations, etc come from other people who learned from other people. In other words, the very tools needed to study and learn about scripture comes though ( hopefully) believing, spirit lead individuals. Part of The Holy Spirit’s job is to equip the church though teachers ( Jeremiah 3:15; Ephesians 4:11).
Paul address this in all his Letters, just to give a few “Follow the pattern of the sound words that you have heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus; But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it; He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it” (2 Tim 1:13; 3:14; Titus 1:9). Also this was seen in Acts 18 about a educated Jew named Apollos who preached about Christ, but lacked a full understanding of what he preached, and so a couple Priscilla and Aquila “explained to him the way of God more adequately”. With all of that knowledge, Apollos still needed someone to teach him sound doctrine.
I’m saying all of this, so that you don’t judge without understanding. Until the Reformation, the church was under a millennia of bad theology. Just to name a few Martin Luther, William Tyndale and many others began a campaign from translating the Bible into English or protesting false doctrine that paved the way for sound doctrine. Those men you say “we” quote often are people ( while not perfect) was reading and teaching scripture for the first time in a millennia since the early church. Those same people also encouraged the scriptures that was hidden from people. A revival of spirit-lead teachers, to the Glory of God. So those often quoted men “only” goal was to “…contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” ( Jude 1:3).
What we know today and our translated Bibles came though those often quoted men.
No wonder alot of Christians are so confused its all too much sometimes
Thank you for clearing this subject up until i watched your video i had no clue what Calvinisim was and now it has thrown up more questions than answers so for now i will just say that i am a basic Christian aswell and i just thank God that he chose me before the foundation of the world and hope that he choose my daughter aswell just saying it in those terms scares the crap out of me but my faith in Christ is unshakable and i truly believe that every one that can be saved will be saved god bless you all ❤️
Limited atonement is what I wrestle with as well. God grant us wisdom.
Thanks Allen. Very informative clip. I tend to agree with all 5 points of Calvinism, but don’t like to be referred to as Calvinist. I prefer being called Christian.
Would love to hear you discuss this with Dr Leighton Flowers…
From a 5-Point Calvinist: Nicely done, Allen! Limited Atonement is (understandably) a common hang up. An easier way of describing it is "Particular Grace."
One note: The way you described Limited Atonement from the 4-Point Calvinist is really the 5-Point view. We will say that Christ's death on the Cross was SUFFICIENT for all, EFFICIENT for some. In other words, Christ wouldn't have to make another sacrifice if somehow more people were added to the elect (for argument's sake). So while we may not be able to say to the man on the street, "Jesus died for your sins," we can say "If you repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, your sins are forgiven." His death IS sufficient for everyone, but it may or nor may not be EFFECTIVE for that person.
@Oostburg CRC
"His death IS sufficient for everyone, but it may or nor may not be EFFECTIVE for that person."
No offence, but that's something of a cop-out. If atonement is limited and it was limited before the foundation of the world because God chose whom he wanted to be saved, and the grace he bestows is irresistible, then Christ's death cannot be sufficient for all. That notion does not make sense. It makes no sense to die for someone that you've determined beforehand is going to be condemned.
Brother Allen, no matter where you are in your faith walk, you are still my brother in Christ. So, no matter what you are wrestling with, just keep striving in a forward movement, towards Our Heavenly Father. GOD Bless you and yours
I told my pastor from my previous Pentecostal church that I was wrestling with some of the doctrines they teach, such as the rejection of the trinity and the requirement to speak in tongues as evidence of having the Holy Spirit. He basically told me that he was disappointed in me and couldn’t believe that he had trusted me with the pulpit (I’ve taught at a few midweek services). He also thought I was having a crisis of faith and in danger of swaying to some other religion.
I’m glad to hear that someone like you also wrestles against unbiblical teaching within Christianity. He kept trying to make me call myself an apostolic Pentecostal, but got frustrated with me when I refused to do so and I said that I just considered myself a Christian, follower of Jesus, etc. I’ve had it with denominations 🤦🏻♀️
God bless you! I say no to denominations as well.
Allen, I’d love to have you on my broadcast to have a cordial brotherly discussion about these doctrines if you’d be open to that?
As someone who went down that rabbit hole to its conclusion, I’d answer anyone who claims to be a Calvinist who doesn’t accept all 5 points is not actually a Calvinist but a person wrestling with the brainwashing they have received from Calvinist teachings that utilize circular logic and redefining terms, words and examples in the scriptures to fit within the Calvinistic doctrine.
The scripture viewed without going through the lens of Calvinism tells a different story that doesn’t have to wrestle with some how through Devine mystery God is deterministically and arbitrarily the author of human evils and not responsible himself for doing so. I could go on but, let’s just say there’s often a false dichotomy trotted out as a straw man to point to and claim victory. The choice isn’t Calvinism or Arminianism as I see it. Though if you must entertain such a false dichotomy, standing in the middle of them is the best place to stand.
P.S. I in no way deny God’s sovereignty, I just believe he’s big enough to accomplish his desires as he desires them in spite of granting humanity the free will (not as Calvinist teach it but as commonly understood) to choose.
This is accurate, in my view and is also my take on it. God bless ya.
Amen, I have friends who are Calvinist and I can see the falsity in it but they don’t see it, seems like they have been borderline brainwashed.
Thank you brother for this.. The last part really helped me understand it much more!
Yeup! I feel the same bro 🙏🏼
@@suavesoto7393
Poop then because I shortened some as trying not to stir up unnecessary conflict, which part? Is it still there I can put it back if it’s helpful to people I have a bit of soreness still from past experiences within a OPC so I’m trying to be careful to not let that influence what I say.
Brother Allen, Brother Leighton Flowers says he'd love to discuss this with you on his program.
He made a very respectful response video to yours.
What say you?
Thank you, Brother Allen! Now I know what it means when someone accuses me of being a Calvinist. My position is similar to yours, but in general I lean on the Sovereignty of God. He knows the end from the beginning, and I in my finite human mind, I cannot comprehend that.
Brother Allen, it’s definitely OK to wrestle with theological points. I think that’s a sign of a humble servant that is just opening up to the leading of God’s Word. We will waver because we are broken, but constantly seeking the Holy Spirit to lead us where we fail short.
Allen, Leighton Flowers just did a response to this video. He is a Provisionist, which is a little different than both Calvinism and Arminianism. I really think it would be a blessing to the church of Jesus Christ if the two of you could get together and have a friendly conversation. Dr. Flowers is friends with Mike Winger and he has written a book on Romans 9.
Leighton claims to have been regenerated by God's grace, even teaching Calvanism for 10 years, only to step out and deny it was an arbitrary act of God's grace to save him, but rather that it was his imaginary autonomous free will that put him in Christ. Why would anyone Elect want to have a "friendly" conversation with a man rejecting election?
I would love to see you have a discussion with Dr. Leighton Flowers from soteriology 101. I think it would be eye opening for you. With brotherly love and respect your born again and saved non-Calvinist brother.
Thank you for the video this is such a great topic in understanding who we are in Christ. For example, I am strongly against Calvinism, I look at it and say "how can anyone believe this?" Yet, I fear that so many people allow their passions to turn to anger toward their brothers, either who are or who are not Calvinist. When that anger against the viewpoint is in our hearts we are tempted, when we meet someone who follows one way or the other we may transfer that anger towards them then we sin. We are called to love one another, Calvinism is debatable, love for your brother and sister in Christ is not. In fact as an avid non-Calvinist I have found great value in Calvinism. Why? Because I have spent more time in the Word because of it, challenged to think critically about what Scripture says. Whether or not I agree or disagree with Calvinism, if we all agreed we would spend less time thinking critically about what the Bible says. Thinking critically about one thing teaches us to think critically about the central issues of Christianity so that we can defend what we believe with reason. Furthermore, we are tested against temptation, do we allow our pride in our viewpoint to allow us to disobey the Word of God and murder our brothers and sisters in faith? (This can go with eschatology too). Finally, when you see a debate on Calvinism, when they are of one mind in terms of respect and faith in Christ, it can be truly edifying to study the Scripture and think critically on the subject, taking into account what both sides argue (not argue in a bad way).
So would you say faith is not a gift from God?
@@ShepherdMinistry hmm, my point wasn't to debate Calvinism, but to demonstrate how we can become angry at our brothers for not agreeing with our theology, when there is Biblical arguments supporting both sides. When we explore the topic of Calvinism we gain a deeper understanding of the Word regardless of what side you take. When we do debate the issue we are driven to study even deeper. But, when we are angry because someone disagrees we sin. Please keep in mind I know there is heresy, I do not think either side is heretical when they follow Biblical principals. But, some heretical doctrines do fall stray from both sides.
I used inflammatory words to demonstrate how people become angry about it and can easily be tempted into sin. I could easily become angry because I believe strongly, but that is my pride.
I totally disagree with calvanism and especially their view of if you don't believe in calvanism you're automatically an arminian.
The term Calvinist and arminian are no where in the Bible.
Therefore it's false teachings ADDING to the word of God.
No TULIP verbatim anywhere in the Bible either. Calvanism came straight from the pits of hell and will drag anyone to outer darkness who become ensnared in it's lies.
@@TheLegacy87 So Calvinism is a salvation issue to you?
for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
Philippians 2:13 NIV
Even though God gives us free will yet He still knows what we'll choose.
Great video on explaining.
Blessings
“For he saith to Moses, ‘I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.’ So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.”
Romans 9:15-16 KJV
Great honesty. So relieved to hear that I’m not alone in my partial Calvinist thinking. Thought, is it possible that God didn’t predetermine our coming too the faith but he “knew “ what we would do .
Hi Allen, have you heard Leighton Flower's comments. Perhaps you can discuss Calvinism with Jim.
Hello Brother, can you have a discussion with Leighton Flowers? Born again believers who are not Calvinist can still center around the sovereignty of God.
Thanks for explaining all the points of Calvinism it was always confusing to me until you gave this demonstration thank you
For me personally, I am a five point. I cannot in any way shape or form think that I could've become a Christian without God having predestined me to be his. I know where God brought me from, and still delivering me. No way I would've said yes on my own, even with hearing the gospel. But I do still struggle with limited atonement as a whole. Ill probably be wrestling with that until I see His face, smiling of course. I come from the Armenian camp. So I would say I'm a 4.75 on the Calvinist scale. 100% percent regular Christian, thrilled that God knows my name. Thank you for your channel. God bless you and your family.
You should do a video with Leighton Flowers from Soteriology 101. It would be awesome to hear you both discuss T.U.L.I.P.
This was a great unpacking of the whole Calvinist bit, Allen! Very clear and to-the-point. I think you're right to wrestle with points three and four, for sure. Nice share!
I am coming out of Calvinism. I believe it’s damaging and contradicts all the other scriptures about Christ, His love, dying for the whole world, etc. Saying He only died for some just contradicts so much. Calvinists have a few scriptures they use most taken out of context. So many people on RUclips like Leighton flowers can explain it better than me. What a dreadful doctrine
Like you, I “wrestled” with this issue for years. I prayed hard for God to show me the right direction to believe on this issue. Finally I realized the John 3:16 is the answer. It doesn’t say “For God so loved the elect” it says the world. Like you there are elements of Calvinism I agree with, like total depravity of man, but others I don’t agree with. I also felt like when Jesus gave the command to share the Gospel with the world, He meant just that. I finally put it to rest in my mind by deciding that I follow Jesus period. Not a theologian. I truly believe when we stand before Jesus He won’t ask which theology I believed. I’m so thankful to be saved by Jesus. Allen, I enjoy your videos.
Mr. Parr, I truly appreciate your points in this video. I subscribe to the Westminster Standards but I wrestle with theology too. And I think it is so important to give people the freedom to do the same. We are Christian brothers and sisters and to our master alone do we stand or fall. May we stand by the power of Jesus, the righteous one. By faith in Christ, I am righteous before God and heir to life everlasting--without any merit of my own, by sheer grace!
Great video. As a soteriology 101 regular, It'd be great if you could contact Leighton Flowers. He would love to have you on his show to discuss these things. God bless
@@jonanthony3913 Yes...it's a good thing
Appreciate your channel Allen. You should have Leighton Flowers on your show. Interview him on your show. That would be a great talk, you are both cordial, kind and interested in thinking!
@@jonanthony3913 he's a kinder gentler version of James White with a different take on what God's plan for salvation actually is.
@@jonanthony3913 Example of misrepresenting Calvinism? Examples of the slander?
@@jonanthony3913 I see, but do you have any specific example of #1 misrepresenting Calvinism? Do you have any examples?
I also, don't see the "slander" (the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation.) examples either but we can stick with #1 for now. Thanks brother.
I will never call myself a "Calvinist" or an "Arminian." To do so is to do the same that the Corinthians did: "I follow Peter." or "I follow Apollos." (1 Corinthians 3:4). I follow Christ. I agree in some places with Calvin, just like I agree with my pastor or my God-fearing friends in certain areas but not in others. However, I won't identify myself with Calvin or as a Calvinist. I identify myself in Christ alone.
Take a chance to listen to Leighton Flowers at his RUclips channel Soteriology 101, as well as William Lane Craig’s Molinist perspective if you haven’t. Because of the current popularity of Calvinistic preachers, organizations, and resources you often don’t come across the best scholars and resources from a more Arminian perspective. If you really care about truth listen to and understand the best presentation of different perspectives before you solidify yourself into one. Love and grace to everyone
So glad you mentioned that it's OK to wrestle with theology! Obviously stuff like the trinity and deity of Christ is non negotiable but things such as limited atonement are not worth falling out over ! God bless
Great teaching Bro Parr. Thank you for your transparency, it is very refreshing.
Would love to see you have a conversation with Leighton Flowers. If your interested in seeing how the scripture may not actually teach Calvinism.
Hey there Allen Parr, would you be open to having a conversation with Professor Leighton Flowers of Soteriology101, concerning this topic?
I’m a 5-pointer through and through! I must admit, I totally understand the struggle of wrestling with it. Every calvinist struggles with these doctrines before accepting them, so it’s not unreasonable to wrestle with it
Because in order for you to be correct, that would mean that God would have to force people to not believe in him, send them to hell and it would be the fault of the people who physically not choose to believe in him. I would rather die than believe in calvanism.
God is NOT the author of confusion, why do so many Calvinist believe in Calvinism yet they don't understand it. They wrestle with it? We need to be deserning. 2 Chorinthians 11:4, Galatians 1:8.
I have asked Calvinist MANY questions, they don't have an answer. They always get angry.
The truth never minds being questioned, we always get to speak truth in Love.
@@susiedyck4914 "The truth never minds being questioned, we always get to speak truth in Love." Amen. Couldn't have said it better myself.
Thank you for explaining the different points and then providing where you stand. I (Matthew) consider myself a 4.5ish as well :)
I appreciate this so much Pastor Parr, it helped me realoze it is okay to wrestle with theology. I often feel like I have to figure everything out right now, but I dont. I can take my time as long as I keep close the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Allan, throw out the TULIP, and go talk to the FLOWERS
Thank you for this video, Pastor Allen! An amazing resource! With you re: the wrestling, as well as with your convictions re God’s Word. #trustingHim
“For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.”
1 Corinthians 2:2
“I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.”
Galatians 2:20
Brother Allan, I believe the problem with Calvinism is that some of the terms are correct (for example yes I agree with total depravity) , in Calvinism these things often mean something different other Christians (by the way there’s more than just Calvinism and Arminianism). False dichotomy fallacy is VERY prevalent with many Calvinist teachers. The verses you have as proof texts for Calvinism all have other non Calvinist interpretations which in my opinion flow better with the whole canon of scripture and character of God. You missed the entire divine determinism of Calvinism as well which really makes the entire system fall apart. Soteriology 101 has TONS of videos on all of the things you described including going through tulip. Calvinism…no no way. Still Christians , many good folks affirm Calvinism but there is a reason it does out all the time…
I’ve listened to you long enough, no you aren’t a Calvinist, don’t get caught in the wave…
Great response, thank you. As you mentioned, there are very sound and plausible interpretations of these passages that can be used in a non-Calvinist manner. Ultimately I think these manmade systems that are devised to attempt to understand the way God's infinite nature works are just exercises in futility, and the truth is a composite of more than one angle.
Provisionism is a joke
@@innovationhq8230 then dismantle it for us please. We’re waiting
Tulip. Wow. There is even an acronym. Thanks for this brother Allen.
I’m a 5 pointer, been one for years, but intentionally not let it be decisive and strive for unity in our church fam. ❤️