What ever happened to Smokey Yunick`s Hot Vapor Engine
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2020
- What ever happened to Smokey Yunick`s Hot Vapor Engine?
Smokey Yunick VS The Big 3
If you stay till the end of the video you will see a lot more of the engines.
pictures of engines never seen.
It is a long story, Regarding the kit, there was a time where that was explored as a joint venture with Crane, but it was scuttled primarily because the lawyers saw to much exposure with potential improper installs. Some other reasons:
WHY NO ENGINE IN THE INTERIM 40 YEARS?
1. The first reason is OIL, not Big Oil, although that is a part of the answer too. In the early 80’s the widespread availability of synthetic motor oil and lube was a decade or two away. In order to make the engine functional at the temperatures required for the engine to achieve Hot Vapor process Smokey was using Jet Engine oil that was 98 dollars a quart.
2. Of course, Big Oil was a reason as well. After the Oil Embargo of 73 there was a push toward fuel economy. But by the time Ronald Reagan assumed the Presidency, one of the first acts was to remove the solar panels from the White House roof. The rest of the decade saw a move toward less of an emphasis on the fears of the 70s and the return of gas shortages.
3. The OEMs had ideas of their own and moved back toward the idea that cooling an engine was the answer. They had also made a commitment toward EFI and they were not going backward. The culture of that time (Pre- Jobs, Gates and Tech Entrepreneurs) tended to look down on engineers without formal degrees. What Marlan Davis called, “it wasn’t invented here syndrome” in his article for HotRod Magazine: “It was the "not invented here syndrome" rearing its ugly head again. “How could a couple of gearhead hot rodders know more than all of Detroit's best engineering talent?”
4. Lack of access to the original engines. Smokey made the conscious decision and concerted effort to keep the hard tech from the “suits” There is good evidence that even trained engineers with access don’t understand what they are seeing and misidentify and misunderstand what is in plain sight. To the trained eye Yunick’s efforts to effectively camouflage critical parts and components is evident. This pattern of false bread crumb trails carried over to the patents themselves where Smokey would use in-exact, misleading, or made-up descriptions as well as omissions to throw potential IP thieves off track. We have already identified at least one instance where the drawing in a patent is not the same as the working physical engine.
5. There is no doubt that the fall of John DeLorean was a crucial set back. And, the Hunt Brothers were having their own problems with Law Enforcement. However ultimately, it was probably Henry “Smokey” Yunick that made the conscious decision himself. There was no arguing Yunick’s genius. Nor his eccentricities and “My way or the highway” terms. He was now in his 60s and was slowing down, thinking about writing a book or two. He was already a legend, decorated WWII Pilot, Inventor and had won over 50 races in every type of auto racing. He had business interest in South America. He had spent decades being challenged by Auto and Race Execs. The endless parade of engineering teams alone must have been exhausting, always the fear that they are going to steal your knowledge and work. To prevent this there was always a false trail in the treasure maps he left behind, “It is really quite simple, and I am careful not saying too much. This is the only way I can be sure nobody knows how the system exactly works says Smokey” Swedish Hotrod Magazine
6. At the end, maybe he just got tired, to quote him as he closes out the chapter of something that he pursued for half his life, “These things start out as a little conversation and like a hurricane get spinning faster and faster and I guess where the inventor generally gets blowed out the side someplace then the wind and rain goes away and in thirty days it is like it never happened. As it stands today the Smithsonian has inquired about a hot vapor engine for their museum. Maybe you can check it out there if they never get it into vehicles. They’ve also got one of my hats.” Eating the Elephant page 249.
Daniel Soliz , Sunrock Technologies,
hot vapor engine, HVC, fuel ,mpg , hp carbon press, chevy, buick,
Machining, machinist, automotive machining, DIY, automotive DIY, easy diy tutorials, fix your car, fix your car easy free, machinist tips, cylinder head, cylinder block, headgasket, engine problems, Smokey Yunick, best damn garage in town, faye hadley, all girls garage, pistons and pixiedust, pixie dust, daniel soliz, danny and faye, automotive book club live, Hill Country Performanance & Machine, HCP 
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I knew Smokey, spoke with him on the phone almost weekly for years, ate dinner with his wife and family in his kitchen when I visited every Speed Week. I loved Smokey and will forever be indebted to him for the innumerable kindnesses he showed me, his patience with my dumb questions and dumb ideas, and his gracious nature. Was so sad when he passed away, but eternally grateful to have known him. Rest in peace Smokey. You made my life better and I am indebted to you. I'll see you again, I'm sure.
Love this, thanks for sharing your story with me. I would love to hear anything that you may remember about his years of working on this project. 🙏
That's a privilege few share, yet many would love. Smokey is still an inspiration to gearheads everywhere!
Real good review on important vapor fuel technology made by Smokey Yunick. One of the most interesting things about his design was the intake manifold designed to
heat a vapor chamber below a turbocharger. The turbocharger pressurized the fuel intake and kept it from trying to backup to the carburetor. His design extracted more
energy from a smaller amount of gasoline. Gasoline has about 7 different compounds in it that evaporated at different temperatures. The vapor fuel systems being
experimented with for several years worked for awhile until the vapor panels were contaminated by the heavy ends of the fuel which would collect and degrade the
fuel vaporization so mileage started good for awhile then it would start degrading over time until the vapor panels were replaced with new ones. The way to prevent
this problem I found was to use white gasoline (Lantern Fuel, no extra compounds in it). Smokey's design worked flawlessly and is a solution. The engines on fuel
vapor will run cooler with no engine detonation (knock) since the fuel is in a gaseous vapor state much like a propane fueled engine. Smokey also won a stock car race
years before his invention running a Fish carburetor which has a patent on it made by John R. Fish. I have one of the larger Fish carburetors made by Mike Brown.
Mike made replicas of John Fish's carburetor and advertised/sold them in the middle 70's. He guaranteed a 20% increase in mileage which they did and even exceeded
that guarantee. Smokey Yunick was way ahead of Detroit on his designs and anyone experimenting with vapor fuel systems had their lives threatened. Tom Ogle is
another fella that had a high mileage vapor system design which worked. The Pogue carburetor was one early patents that was a good design. If I remember it has
a Canadian Patent in the early century. The people who say that these fuel systems won't work are easily shutdown by mentioning the Coleman Lantern and stove
which is a fuel vapor system in it's principle using a vapor generator which was heated by the burning vapor when lit. I am glad you brought this topic up on Smokey
Yunick's patents and details on them.
Dennis, it is so good to here from someone that understands what Smokey was doing. I hope everybody reads your comment, I'd like to share this comment. Made my day! Thank you.
facebook.com/ThePhoenixEngine
@@geraldwegener8376 The original carburetor had the fuel pickup are on the barrel side of the casing. A very precise machined groove had to
be made and the depth of it also very precise since it metered the fuel to the swing arm shaft.
Mike Brown had castings for the Fish carburetor and took a shortcut in machining the fuel pickup on his units for sale and the original was on the barrel
side which afforded a cooling affect on the fuel mixture. The modification with the swing-arm and where it picked up the fuel was a bad choice. I found
this out when I had 350 cfm carburetor on a Oldsmobile V8 in Florida one Summer. The bowl would be picking up hot gasoline just above the intake
manifold where there was a lot of heat. That caused a lot of stumbling because of the bubbles getting into fuel delivery shaft. There was no problem
like that in the northern climates. With the fuel pickup in the original location with the design I am pretty sure there were minimal problems like that.
Someone mentioned that the throttle shaft wore the aluminum housing out which made problems which I never had but that might be possible if gasohol
with alcohol or even pure alcohol was used for fuel. The steel throttle shaft and existing aluminum would work if the throttle shaft was oiled but alcohol is
a strong solvent and worse yet when heated. A solution would be to do like Holley and even with the Carter carburetors used. A bushing kit is available
for the Holley carburetors along with a boring tool to press in the brass bushings. Carter used nylon bushings on there carburetor kits but a backfire on
the engine could melt nylon. Aluminum against a steel shaft is a bearing surface but a brass surface is better and brass bearings are easy to replace.
I have one of the early 500 cfm carburetors from Mike Brown which still works and the fuel enrichment used was not good in cold climates. The best
solution was a on/off solenoid with a momentary electrical switch mounted at the dash to spray fuel with a jet nozzle onto the butterfly. That no different
than using a spray bottle over the top of the carburetor but more convenient. Fuel injection is still not efficient since a mist of fuel is not fine like vapor.
Smokey Yunick had the best design for full vaporization of gasoline and even Propane is better for high mileage if introduced and done right to a engine.
I might add, gasoline is highly unstable when heated and the gasoline before gasohol it had approximately seven different additives in it which had different
vaporization points in temperature with one as high as 600 degrees Fahrenheit. With Smokey Yunick's engineering setup all of the fuel was vaporized.
@@ezl8002 I used a Fish carb for at least 200k the downside for me was there was no choke mechanism and also icing on certain cold damp mornings.
I eliminated both problems by installing a brass spray nozzle above the carb and a 1/4" wire mesh screen in the recessed carb throat.
The advantage of the Fish was the unique adjustments especially the fuel enrichment screw which was like an adjustable jet. The carb could be adjusted for mpg or power but not really both. I had mine set on the lean side and used the spray nozzle for extr power...trying to achieve both mpg and power. Also the Fish is the only carb I used that could be leaned out without the engine running hot, burning valves, etc.
Also possible to run e85 with a simple adjustment. Mike Brown claimed it run on crude oil which may or may not be true because not all crude is the same. Mike was a writer and not a engineer or mechanic. He came up with the idea of a Fish Dualbowl/water injection...it didn't work I tested it and sent it back.
The last person to mfg the Fish that I know of was Richard Ackerman. He was good...figured out the mistakes Mike had made etc. Also made some two carb set up's for performance. Not being made anymore by anyone that I know of.
If it was built in China and because of the simplicity it should be really low cost. If the carb is made correctly with the right type bushings it would probably last the lifetime of the owner and never need to be rebuilt.
I told Richard Ackerman that if the fuel enrichment screw could somehow be adjustable from the dash...it would be the greatest carb ever made...but probably not possible to do. Thanks!
The hot vapor engine is what got me interested in smokey when i was 18 years old. When my dad showed me the ccar and driver magazine.
Same here except the dad thing.😢 LOL
Yeah, Patrick Bedard was the one who did the story, if memory serves me correctly. He called it the adiabatic engine. Patrick was sure it would ping (predetonate) due to the high temperature, but it never did.... again, if memory serves me correctly.
I think the old Hemmings Guide to Musclecars also had an article on Smokey, and included the hot vapor engine.
@@albertgaspar627 I’m going to look it up.
I am a fiero owner and have been to Don garlets museum to see the hot vapor engine in the fiero. Smokey was a master
you would like the livestream we did last night, we take the Iron Duke apart.
Now I'm going to see that engine at Big Daddy's museum. It's only 45 minutes from me.
@@MrDanielSoliz
Same Danny I've seen on tv with Fey, right??
@@xmo552 yes sir!
@@MrDanielSoliz
I could always tell you had deep insight that only comes from experience and probably lots of reading. 👍😉
It's amazing how many of these you have! Very nice video!
I'm a Smokey fan. His racing and engineering exploits are legendary. I'd really like to see an HVC engine on a dyno to verify the claims. Never could understand how he was able to run a heated, super lean mixture, control detonation, and make 250 hp with a tiny 3 cylinder. Doesn't add up. Even Tesla claimed some crazy stuff that couldn't work the way it was described. Why not run it on the Smoketron to prove it works? I think Smokey donated the Smoketron to Embry Riddle in Daytona. THAT would be cool!
You have to take what you think you know about the combustion process and throw it out the window. What actually got Smokey going on this was him almost killing himself cutting the top out of an old fuel barrel. He said it had been empty for months, open and vented to the atmosphere, including being rained into. Very little odor even left, yet as he said, " the dammed thing blew up". That was his moment of truth. He was working on a better method of Ignition, the HVC engine as run is only partially efficient, with a true plasma ignition source, you could reach really lean mixtures.
It was never a viable system I am not even sure it was supposed to be. There were a lot of good things but also serious problems to overcome. It did run and perform well up to a moderate load or under load on a controlled dyno. But from everything I have read on it, it went through head gaskets like crazy, melted pistons and did have detonation issues when used in real world conditions. It also had very high NOx emissions. In a pound or gallon of gasoline there is only so much energy available and a certain amount you can realistically get to the pavement. The idea of this engine was to make a lean homogenous mixture that would burn, and it did. But it doesn't mean you eliminate all the problems you get from lean combustion. Smokey was an amazing inventor, racer and problem solver. Even if this engine wasn't a viable product he could sell. You can be damn sure he learned a lot and applied it to his cars to win on race day.
In Europe in the late 80s most of the engine manufacturers were experimenting in lean burn engines, including so called Adiabatic cycle engines, but the NoX emissions killed the idea and the EU decided the best route was to go down the catalyser path. Perhaps if more research had been done some way of reducing the NoX's or even catalyzing them might have been a better route to go. With only 9 years now left of ICE engines I suppose it no longer matters. I'm glad to see that the the the truth behind how really filthy ICE engines are has finally ended any chance the oil industry has of hanging on to our money.
@@TIMMEH19991I am very torn between traditional ice engines and battery powered modern electric cars. To me something like the Toyota Prius or hybrids like that make a lot of sense as you have a backup and you're not reliant on just one source, especially until battery technology improves to a sufficient level and can be very very reliable. I'm still hanging on to my old ice cars because I live in a place that is an hour away from Seattle and there is tons and tons of tech money here so it is a big difference between the haves and the have nots and they have drive the price of everything up like crazy. Don't get me wrong I love electric motors I love the simplicity of them I love how they're so few moving parts. Do I like big oil companies no do I like the fact that we get tons of precious metals from 2nd and 3rd World countries especially in the Congo no I don't. What is your opinion on these things? Either way I wish you peace in your life.
Thank you Danny for the video on Smokey’s hot vapor engine. Excited to see what can be done with modern tuning controls on this motor design. Trying to catch up on the books, read over 40 pages on Sunday. Keep the videos coming, I really enjoy you sharing your knowledge. Thank you!
Thank you
Excellent video Danny the hot vapor engine as always absolutely fascinated me more in-depth videos on them in the future would be awesome keep doing what you’re doing I’ll keep watching🇺🇸👍
These videos are SO well produced/directed.
Smoky Yunick was a big influence on me as a young engine builder , his articles in circle track Magazine were always very technically insightful.
"Welcome to the Smokey Yunick hot vapor engine museum, I'm Danny, the curator of this collection." ;)
What happens on the cold start ,when there is no heat. Glow plug?
@@tedpeters9699 It starts like any carburetted engine, with the choke on. The real fuel economy only starts when the engine is up to full temperature, which would take about 15 minutes.
@@mrdanforth3744 Thank you,
THIS ENGINE actually caused an uproar with the Corvette guys. THEY were worried about the Vette, viability. With a fiero that got 50 mpg , had 300 hp. WHICH was the time The vetted guys started lobbying the fiero to be discontinued.
@@w41duvernay
You guy's kill me with your Corvette conspiracy tales, none of them are true.
GM never had a policy that no car was allowed to be faster than the Corvette, if GM had such a policy then the Buick Grand National would never have been allowed to be built in the first place.
And I suggest you try reading the real history of the Pontiac Fiero and not the conspiracy crap that gets thrown around by people on RUclips.
And guess what, there wasn't a shooter on the grassy knoll either.
A great video showing that awesome collection of hot vapor engines. 👍
Clarke's 3 Laws:
When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong.
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Or, Smokey Yunick was a bullshit artist and his efficiency claims never reached reality and none of his designs survived reliability standards.
@@truantray Gregory Flynn Jr. Was an engineer for GM, in fact he was their Head of Mechanical Development Department . He was on the Board of Directors of SAE. And was a principle in the development of the Stirling Engine for D.O. D. and likely other Gvment agencies. patents.google.com/?inventor=Jr+Gregory+Flynn He was contracted as an independent engineering advisor on Yunick/Knudsen HVE from at least 1980 through 1982. In a memo he wrote November 11, 1980 he verified 1800 degrees combustible mixture operating temps. He was also present when dyno and road tests were performed over those years at SwRI. The engine did work as advertised and it was documented.
i've developed ton of respect for smokey.his brain was constantly in overdrive.im really surprised he lived a full life,due to the fact he was such a threat to the auto/big oil industries.several inventors have been found dead because they were a threat to big oil companies.
I was thinking about Stanley Meyer while watching this.
The difference is Smokey worked for them for a good portion of his career, he wasn't a crackpot like Meyer.
One of the most famous is Rudolph Diesel, he wanted farmers to power their equipment off hemp oil with his engine, big oil wanted it to be their fuel, they and Dupont and Hearst outlawed hemp by scaring people with propaganda about marijuana, Americans and especially farmers did not know politicians and Hearst's papers were talking about hemp.......and Rudolph Diesel was found floating in the English channel.
No just no
@@905Alive you think prohibition was about MADD mom's and wife's pissed about alcoholic husbands? No, made illegal long enough to get all the gas stations onto place and get us dependant on oil.
My favorite “show and tell” so far. It’s fun to have a tour of the place. I wonder how hot the oil got in the vapor engines? Danny’s museum is SO cool. My first company car was a 3 cylinder Geo Metro! I’m sure Smokey’s had a lot more power. I like your catch phrase, “as for me I’m getting back to work.”
🙏
Good video, I received a lot of help from Smokey in the development of my Radial Cam engine... Much of this technology that he used on his Hot Vapor Engine went into our engine which uses the HCCI ignition with fuel injection.. He was a very smart man but his lack of a degree made it easy for the auto industry to play the "not invented here" card on him... A great guy...
Excellent video! Really interesting stuff. So far ahead of its time
I remember reading about this way back. It was supposed to produce around 2hp per cubic inch. And it was a smoother power that broke less parts. It had a fuel homogenizer that looked like a turbocharger. They showed all of it except some key parts bc it was still under development.
Read EVERTHING about how he "understood" a rule book, He's a legend in "any" class he ran and mastered it as well
The turbocharger helped keep the fuel and vapor from backing up into the carburetor. Drawing vacuum on a liquid lowers the boiling point and
the turbo is like a one-way valve. You also don't get any knock off of a vapor fuel system!
So much "awesome" in one place. One day i hope I have a shop like this :)
I would like to see it actually run on the dyno.
Same
I'll lyk and u lmk if you find one lol
I would love to see it run on the dyno some day
they don't run
Things would have been very different now a days if they would have embraced this technology. Major respect for Smokey! Awesome video Danny!
smokey wasnt to keen on anything that smelled like autority or rules and he got blocked by the big motorcompanies in those days as he was a rebel and whent against the rules , its kindah like those plans for an engine thats supposedly runs on water , legend goes that an influentual person stole/bought them and put those plans away as it wouldve cut intoo the profits of the people selling gasoline and the taxman
It doesn't work. Warming fuel causes loss of power as, for example, proven in aviation with de-icing cycles.
Not really. Smokey was a master tuner but he hated technology in engines. He was trying to do what EFI does but all mechanical and without computers.
A modern engine with DI EFI and VVT produces a lot more power, has better economy, it's cheaper and his more relialable than hot vapour engines
Ooh, I want to know more. Fascinating.
Wonderful video..thank you..
That motor is so Cool! So freaking interesting! Great Video!!
Thanks!
Thank you for such a pleasant reminder of intelligent time when gas mileage Could be attained without the use of a computer.
Thank you Danny it is very interesting how Smokey did his engines
Thanks Toolfather :) I like hearing again about Smokey's engine. Sadly I cannot join the lives, as that is dinner making time for me and my wife, but I love watching them afterwards!
I was blown away by this when I read about the fiero in Hot Rod back in the day.In my opinion this technology has been suppressed.
I agree.
From what I have read about it Smokey tried to sell the idea to various car companies, their engineers were enthusiastic about it for a while but there were 2 problems, in order to make an engine that would withstand the heat, they had to use some expensive parts and lubricants which made them too expensive, and they ran right on the ragged edge of detonation and overheating so if the slightest thing went wrong you could burn up your engine in seconds. A few companies took the idea seriously enough to build their own experimental models but decided they were not ready for sale to the public.
@@mrdanforth3744 : I recall in that same HR article that he'd put different valves and "RV" cam in that Fiaro. However, I don't recall anything about not using the radiator (being that it needs that for the first stage heating) (that this channel seems to be implying) but do recall silicone plug wires boots Smokey recommended. Now as far as extra heat in the engine bay: Seems to me the more recent synthetic OIL types and remote oil coolers could resolve the issue; after all NASCAR does it every day, right? Thanks, and best regards.
@@Rev22-21 I never said it didn't have a radiator, if it worked as intended it would still need a small one. The whole point of what he was doing was to keep as much heat in the engine as possible so that energy could produce power.
Great way to start the day. Efficient power!
I never forgot about that homogenized Fiaro.... and it got rubber in all four gears...! Hot Rod magazine article said FI wouldn't work. Also 1.8 hp per ci., having a small turbo to prevent vapor lock and that Chrysler bought the patent and later moth balled it. The cover of that issue was called "Engines" showing four of them but none were Smokey's.
Smokey bought back all his patents from various partnerships. First Knudsen then Crane. In the end he let them enter the public domain. Some guy admitted on a thread that an OEM was researching it even though it was patented. They still haven't figured it out.
Imagine using all that lost heat in a device that we could call a turbocharger ? Not only that , but it creates its own extra heat that can recycled into itself.
Waking up and watching Danny's videos is like having an awesome cup of coffee. What an great way to start your morning.
Thank you
I really liked this video I argue with some guy that said this engine doesn't work. This engine does work. Shelby dodges would love this video. Have you worked on the EFI engine yet? Love the collection good work.
I recall that Smokey built a Vtwin from scratch and stuck it in a VW Rabbit. It made 150 hp and got 60 mpg.
Yes , it’s in long term storage. 👍
Year ago there was a video of the car being driven
by Smokey and even the journalist!
Now waiting for the flat head and the HVC engine running videos. You seem more relaxed when you just wing it. 👍
I agree, it not as easy as one might think. Thanks
Smokey was way ahead of his time. I was always under the impression that the major oil companies of the time got these and destroyed them, but there they are. Thanks for the video. Good to see.
Them Washington boys have their Smithsonian Institute, but Texas has the Soliz Institute.
Daniel, you are doing a good job showing and reviewing Smokey Yunick's vapor fuel research that he did! I am seeing many people experimenting on it with
their posts on RUclips. People kept experimenting on vapor fuel technology when gasoline prices climbed in the 1970s and I would say a few succeeded
with their work and research. Smokey Yunick had the solution on this research and the closest thing to this research was fueling engines using Propane
fuel. Propane introduced properly will give you good horsepower and economy. The problem is, once you get the GOV involved and Big Business the problems
start showing up since this problem is centered on revenue $$$. Another problem develops concerning the Public and their knowledge on how to run a
engine on vapor fuel and that's where fuel injection plus computer control systems surfaced. The system had to be a "turnkey" system for the average person
to run a car and now we are seeing the re-insurgence of the electric car emerging. The current problem in electric cars is centered on a battery design which
needs a good design. Gasoline is a poor fuel for the automobile and would have been good if the industry would have tooled up and followed Smokey's
engine designs.
For those skeptics, there was a video out sometime in the 1980s where Smokey gave a newspaper reporter a trip in his car. I remember seeing it on TV
and I suppose someone could have recorded it on video tape. The car was driven on the street and response with acceleration was fast since the engine
was a small 150-hp, 2-cylinder engine. The article came out concerning his engine in the "Popular Science" magazine in April, 1983 and several months
later another article's title came out, "Smokey's engine 0-60 mph in 6 seconds and 50 mpg, too." Very few of today's cars are achieving the 50 mpg.
All new cars are using a "catalytic converter" on their exhaust systems to burn the unburned fuel even with fuel injection just to pass emissions. This
research is being stifled for $$$ and nothing has been done since Smokey Yunick did his research. Thanks Daniel for bringing a story on Smokey Yunick's
engine designs!
I remember some magazine writer sayng that fuel was not some kind of plazma to be heated for fun. but I also remember that the engine ran well and got better mileage and power.
This video just came up in my feed today. I have been working on something similar to Smokey's idea with Pontiac V8s. Where my project differs is rather than gasoline I use ethanol. Only have to heat it to 200F in the fuel lines for EFI to get the same effect, that means no ceramic pistons and other high dollar parts like were used in the Fiero, it does it all in the temperature range engines normally operate. Gasoline is a mix of chemical components with boiling points between 80F and 450F at sea level, whereas ethanol's boiling point is 173F. To get it hot enough to vaporize all the fuel, you have to get the intake charge to 450F, from what I remember of the HRM article and some later ones I read. Not a lot of time to achieve that, which is why Smokey had to use two different 'chambers' to do it.
Its about surface area, atomization is like spray from a garden hose, vapor is fog and the fog provides vastly more surface area, which allows a faster more complete burn. Its only the outside of the fuel droplets that burn, and that takes longer to achieve. Also gasoline wastes over 80% of its energy as heat that doesn't do any work, it only heats up the engine and causes the parts to expand far enough they eliminate the oil separating the parts and things stick together. That is part of the problem Smokey was working on fixing.
On the other hand ethanol has only 60% of its energy going to waste heat, it also has more oxygen in it than gasoline, then you have a superior latent heat of vaporization which cools the intake charge keeping it dense even when the fuel is hot enough to vaporize instantly as it hits the relative vacuum of the intake port. Consider the other attributes of ethanol, like its reluctance to explode without a spark, it does not 'diesel' easily, which means it doesn't ping or knock even with very high compression ratios and aggressive timing advance. That means you can run 13:1 compression in an old V8 with factory parts, easily achieved with a flat top piston in a 455 bored .030 over, and the 72cc heads from a 1967-1970 Pontiac 400 milled to 65cc. Nothing special needed other than milling the heads. For this project I didn't fill the center crossover, I wanted the heat under the intake manifold, Pontiac engines have an air gap intake from the factory.
Running a Qjet I converted to E85, a 200F thermostat, 13:1 compression, 224/228@.050 112lsa cam, stock, Performer, or RPM intake manifold, and not heating the fuel just the under hood air going into the carb, it got 20mpg and made well over 550hp nearly 600ftlbs in my 1970 GTO on E85. The 70 needs some work in other areas, electrical, suspension, fixing rust its gotten in the last 25 years I have owned it and daily drove it with various engines, usually 455s. That means the 70 is waiting its turn in my shop for its frame off. The 65 GTO is the current test mule with that 455 but with heads that make only 11.5:1 and have the center heat riser filled in. The 65 is very 'dirty' when it comes to aerodynamic drag, its like pulling parachute everywhere you go compared to the 70 or a much more aero Firebird. So the lower compression, no heat under the carb, and worse aero conspires to only get 17mpg. That isn't even using the system like Smokey was developing. Oh yeah that is mixed driving, city and highway combined.
Those 11.5:1 heads on another 455 made 540hp, 590ftlbs and pushed a 3750lb Firebird to 11.40s @120mph... before E85 was available, so it had to run race gas. That got expensive when gasoline shot up to $5 a gallon for 87 octane.. That was when I started on the ethanol project, to make fuel myself rather than pay a gasoline company for it. I make fuel from cattails and tree sap, maple syrup is considerably more valuable, but I don't eat waffles and I do drive old Pontiacs. Working on using coffee grounds to make fuel at the moment.. but thats another story..
Where my system departs from Smokey is I am heating the fuel in the feed line to an EFI system, currently its a FiTech Mean Street unit. I drove it on pump gas for two years with a low compression 400 under it, then E85 with the 13:1 compression heads, and now 11.5:1 as a comparison and because the head gaskets I need for more than 12:1 static are $86 each. I am not really wallowing in cash and it took me a while to save enough to get the $800 FiTech unit when they had a rebate in 2016. Heating the fuel with a carb means its trying to vaporize in the float bowl, not a good thing, carbs need a liquid to work right. EFI is everywhere now, and available much cheaper than when Smokey was doing these engines. The way I heat the fuel in the lines is dead heading the EFI, the return going back to the tank without being heated (will work great on an LS engine or 3800V6 due to the fuel system used on those engines) before the regulator, and then using a coiled fuel line inside the coolant hose.
My plan is to put the 13:1 heads back on, or do another set, and put the engine in a 71 Formula which is lower and has better aero than the GTOs. Then build a heated fuel system after the regulator, and run it on E98 or E100. Might get that done this summer, there is a lot going on around here, so it might not be done, but that is the plan. I also have a couple Opel GTs, they are very small with ok aero, so they'd by very light with a tube chassis, very fast, and should do better than the Firebird can. Longer project there since I have to build the chassis.
Others have used the heated ethanol fuel in converted diesels that have EFI and a spark ignition system added with the diesel injector removed, and 40mpg in a 4x4 2500 is said to be easy to achieve. So getting a much lighter vehicle with a smaller and considerably lighter engine to achieve over 40mpg should be rather easy, and the best part is you get to keep the mountains of torque from high compression and ethanol.
People will claim ethanol eats everything and can't do this, won't do that, etc etc. I have been testing, tuning, building engines, carbs, and EFI systems to run ethanol since 2007. In that time I have seen zero problems with corrosion, eating parts, rust, etc. The fuel systems are spotless, my fuel pumps have not died even when they are the electrics I used in the 1990s running 10% ethanol pump gas. My cars sit from October to May because of the long winters this far north, and the salt they slather on the roads, I do not rebuild old cars just to have the salt eat them in two years. The 70 GTO has been sitting since 2018 without an engine, it has around 10 to 15 gallons of E85 in the tank right now. I bore scoped it last summer and it was spotless inside, and its the tank that came with the car when it was built in late 1969.
Daily driven 13:1 compression with iron heads, in a V8 that has a 4.18" bore and a 4.21" stroke and cam timing that makes lots of cylinder pressure. It likes 42 degrees total timing, and runs around 15 degrees initial advance. Its entirely off the shelf parts, just basic fuel system parts from NAPA and CarQuest. The heads have stainless valves because I tend not to trust 50 year old valves and the stainless ones are less than $200 its cheap insurance. It runs no problems with stock valves too, did that with some heads on another 455 from a 1975 400 that made 8.8:1 compression. Lots of power, not so great mileage due to the low compression.
Zero problems with the fuel and parts compatibility. Zero. And I do not do anything special, I pull the battery in the fall and let it sit until the snow/salt is gone in May. They always fire up no problem, unlike pump gas which doesn't want to run after it has sat for two weeks. Yes I make videos of my projects, I just got my house done last year, so this is the first year I can spend doing car projects. So if you want to see how this turns out, I can reply to you guys or you can watch, I am not monetizing it so there shouldn't be any ads.
that's so cool!
Post your video I for one am very interested.
@@sink61 The weather needs to warm up before I can start doing the heated fuel project, mostly because the cars I am using do not get driven in the snow. I've recorded all the narration for my first ethanol video, been working on getting something to look at while you listen to me go on about vodka fuel.
We always get at least one big snow storm in April, and the salt trucks come out again. May is usually the earliest, but this year it has been warm, and last week all the winter beaters broke.. lol. One thing or another.
After I get the brake line replaced on the Silverado and the fuel line patched on the Gran Prix I will sift through my video and images to see if I can get a quick video up. Might do a bunch of short ones, could work better. The salt tears up everything under these vehicles, ends up being the same thing every couple years.
This summer when I am not moving cars 1000 miles to my shop, (long story) I will get some of the video shot for my fuel and efficiency project.
Hi Danny, I'm reposting my comment now on this vid also, but I see you have some Delorean DMC docs at 9:45 .
Once again; I found all your vids after researching some Delorean stuff, & stumbled upon an obscure & controversial piece of history & some docs between Smokey & John Delorean over this engines technology. It might be something you want to look into, but its most likely a dead end. I have to finish watching ALL your vids, & will try to contact your shop tomorrow or soon.
I tried to find info on this 10 years ago and came up empty, I remember reading an article smokey wrote which I think was the one you showed or reprinted in a sister mag
I have a generator with this type of system. at the intake port, the temperature is 300F + . Haven't done really any testing on it, but spring is here so time for experiments.
It would help if anyone here had taken a course in thermodynamics.
Or chemistry.
Unfortunately a course in thermodynamics will probably just get you further away from what’s actually happening. Fisher-Price my first course in thermodynamics isn’t going to help in this situation.
It doesn't matter. Anyone or anything that take away profits from big oil companies will always be suppressed and regulated away by paid off government officials.
No let’s here it I love to learn
This is interesting to me. My dad, whom is gone, used to tell me about Smokey and the “best damn garage in town” when he would reminisce about racing and Daytona. He knew Smokey and admired his ingenuity and most of all his personality and wit. I remember going to the garage when I was young but now it’s all gone.
I appreciate you! My dad was in Daytona on Valentine-she said every year he was gone on
day and his birthdays and her birthday’s the 12th And 13 th of February
I’m sure he made out like he wasn’t having a good time racing on the beech! She hated he was gone on those special occasions she felt he should have been spending that time with her instead ! Then they built the track and they decided just to home cause they didn’t have money to go building a car for that kind of racing
Imagine pairing the 100 mpg carb with the Hot Vapor Engine.
Did the homogenizer put any pressure on the intake cycle like a turbo would? Always enjoy seeing Smokey Yunick engines and ideas. Thanks for sharing and making the video
Small amount, like 2psi just enough to keep the gaseous mixture from going backwards.👍👍👍
Great video, and nice shop; i'd liked the mini tour arround your place, looks like a really good place to me. See you tomorrow with Elaine and Faye; 12:30AM (GMT+1) for the Book Club live streams on the Faye Hedley YT channel, everyone welcome.
Every time he says "hot vapor" take a drink.
I know who Smokey was, but never heard of the Hot Vapor Engine. Wow, was I living under a rock? I remember once he was working with Buick or Oldsmobile on an early V6 motor. It was highly modified but in a plain jane sedan. He took it out on a Nascar track while racers were practicing and tuning their cars. His car was faster than many of the race cars.
I bought Smokey’s book on how to hot rod small block Chevy back in the early 70s made my 57 fly🤠👍
@8:03 Two Edelbrock Smokey Ram intake manifolds. Memories of 1975.
Pogue carbureator heated the fuel and atomized it on 66 toronado. Fuel expands when heated and produced same power with less fuel. Claimed 70 mpg. Have the brochure
I really hope something will come of this. I'd be lost in the bookclub. I am just an actor really. I studied public speaking, writing and acting. I've followed autoracing since I could read at or above the 4th grade level. The tales of Henry J. "Smokey" Yunick fascinate me still. He was definitely on to something, and I hope you solve the rest of the equation.
Thank you.
Remember talking with Marvin Panch about Smokey inventing a similar engine that NASA grabbed up and nothing more was heard about it.
Never heard that, that’s for sharing. 🤔
What does NASA need an internal combustion engine for?
I'm noticing the various carbed engines could be replaced with a throttle body fuel injection unit. I WOULD love to outfit this set up on an Olds Quad 4 W41 engine.
Delbra was the Secretary’s name. Autocorrect got me on the first post
I've been a racer for about 40 years now and I have never heard of this engine. I wonder why the hell not!!! The way this engine functions goes against everything we do to make power. The rule of thumb is cold intake charge makes more power! Think about the mileage. Damn I knew that Smokey was a true genius but this is beyond anything I ever imagined!
You never heard of it because while it was a good idea at face value, it was unviable and based on flawed logic, or at least a lack of knowledge on Yunick's part. Yunick was a really smart guy, but this engine concept was flawed. There is a reason you never saw anyone build it. It was patented in 1984, and the patent expired in 2006. You could build and sell it for profit if you wanted. No one does because it doesn't work.
@@hangfire5005 Please explain why. Engines HAVE run at extremely lean cycle ratios. Some have been able to run a long time on super lean mixtures. There IS something there by heating the fuel into well mixed vapor. . .but I have never done the experimenting to try and see what the burn difference is.
@@life_of_riley88
First off the engine doesn't run on the hot vapor principle until it gets fully up to temperature, about 15 minutes, and while it's doing that it doesn't get the greatest mileage in the world, so for people who live within 15 minutes of where they work it would actually cost them more money in gas.
But the biggest downfall is it's complexity, people always sit around and say "Why didn't they do this and why didn't they do that" but everytime a car company tries something revolutionary and it turns out to be a maintenance nightmare the very same people say "Why didn't they just stick with what works instead of trying to reinvent the wheel", and the the car company gets their asses sued off in court and almost goes bankrupt dealing with lemon laws.
@Duke Craig we ran this engine in our shop at 28*F and it started right up ran fine. We need to get it on the dyno and do a dyno pull cold and see the data.
I remember when it came out and wondered what happened to that idea and if it really worked , I want to believe but I’m waiting to see the results as I’m sceptical to why we haven’t seen anything in 27 years .
I feel bad because we have had the 2.2 chry for 9 years and we found the car 7 years ago. we started a new shop and have been crazy busy. Anyway we are back on it and will post all the updates. we will also be posting all the data. trust me it works. look up Dyno Days Smokey Yunick here on RUclips and see Smokey driving the car. There's also video of it running on my page here and on facebook. Facebook is under Daniel Soliz .
I remember this technology when i was a preteen making the transition from bikes to cars
The best place to homogenize the fuel vapors from the gas tank is to pull the vapors from their. Put the intake over the top of the fuel. Then through a turbocharger. The turbo charger has the exhaust side where another fan/turbo if added would do the second heat extraction. Along the way could extract heat in a can around exhaust for initial heat up.
I still have the HOTROD magazine I got in the mail with that article in it. So the real question is since there is absolutely no doubt that the engine functions as described how come nobody has done anything with it ??? It works........isn't difficult to replicate the results.........why has it been 40 years and all there is are old engines sitting around in museums and not even one person driving one around in a vehicle ??
WHY NO ENGINE IN THE INTERIM 40 YEARS?
1. The first reason is OIL, not Big Oil, although that is a part of the answer too. In the early 80’s the widespread availability of synthetic motor oil and lube was a decade or two away. In order to make the engine functional at the temperatures required for the engine to achieve Hot Vapor process Smokey was using Jet Engine oil that was 98 dollars a quart.
2. Of course, Big Oil was a reason as well. After the Oil Embargo of 73 there was a push toward fuel economy. But by the time Ronald Reagan assumed the Presidency, one of the first acts was to remove the solar panels from the White House roof. The rest of the decade saw a move toward less of an emphasis on the fears of the 70s and the return of gas shortages.
3. Materials, production process and technology overall as existed in the early 1980s was just not where it needed to be in order for the engines to be massed produced at a cost that made it viable. Smokey cast or hand made his own parts and reproducing some of those with what was available at the time would have been cost prohibitive..
4. The OEMs had ideas of their own and moved back toward the idea that cooling an engine was the answer. They had also made a commitment toward EFI and they were not going backward. The culture of that time (Pre- Jobs, Gates and Tech Entrepreneurs) tended to look down on engineers without formal degrees. What Marlan Davis called, “it wasn’t invented here syndrome” in his article for HotRod Magazine: “It was the "not invented here syndrome" rearing its ugly head again. “How could a couple of gearhead hot rodders know more than all of Detroit's best engineering talent?”
5. Lack of access to the original engines. Smokey made the conscious decision and concerted effort to keep the hard tech from the “suits” There is good evidence that even trained engineers with access don’t understand what they are seeing and misidentify and misunderstand what is in plain sight. To the trained eye Yunick’s efforts to effectively camouflage critical parts and components is evident. This pattern of false bread crumb trails carried over to the patents themselves where Smokey would use in-exact, misleading, or made-up descriptions as well as omissions to throw potential IP thieves off track. We have already identified at least one instance where the drawing in a patent is not the same as the working physical engine. Additionally and for the sake of redundancy, Smokey cast or hand made his own parts.
6. There is no doubt that the fall of John DeLorean was a crucial set back. And, the Hunt Brothers were having their own problems with Law Enforcement. However ultimately, it was probably Henry “Smokey” Yunick that made the conscious decision himself. There was no arguing Yunick’s genius. Nor his eccentricities and “My way or the highway” terms. He was now in his 60s and was slowing down, thinking about writing a book or two. He was already a legend, decorated WWII Pilot, Inventor and had won over 50 races in every type of auto racing. He had business interest in South America. He had spent decades being challenged by Auto and Race Execs. The endless parade of engineering teams alone must have been exhausting, always the fear that they are going to steal your knowledge and work. To prevent this there was always a false trail in the treasure maps he left behind, “It is really quite simple, and I am careful not saying too much. This is the only way I can be sure nobody knows how the system exactly works says Smokey” Swedish Hotrod Magazine
7. The possibility of the project be scuttled or blacklisted by “The Powers that Be” has to be taken into account. Proof of that however will not likely be unearthed.
8. At the end, maybe he just got tired, to quote him as he closes out the chapter of something that he pursued for half his life, “These things start out as a little conversation and like a hurricane get spinning faster and faster and I guess where the inventor generally gets blowed out the side someplace then the wind and rain goes away and in thirty days it is like it never happened. As it stands today the Smithsonian has inquired about a hot vapor engine for their museum. Maybe you can check it out there if they never get it into vehicles. They’ve also got one of my hats.” Eating the Elephant page 249.
What books are you referring to in this video? And is there a book specifically written for the hot vapor engine by Smokey?
You can find Smokey's books at Carbon Press and no there's not a book on the Hot Vapor Engine.
Please save us Daniel.....show us how to build a vapor system for a carbureted motor.
20 or so years ago after he passed away, they sold off his garage contents on ebay. My buddy (a bladwin dealer) bought all his Baldwin filters, and they had 2 hot vapor engines for sale.
By chance do you know which engines they were?
@@MrDanielSoliz I believe the were GM iron dukes, $8k each if memory serves me correctly
Sad they sold the contents on ebay and then an arson burnt it down
Interesting topic. Are the books still available
Yes they are, Trish from Carbon press which is Smokey’s daughter still has some available.
@@MrDanielSoliz does the book expalin the process
@@moss1transcendant there’s a lot there and he does explain the process not exactly how he did it but what he was doing. You can also see the engine he sent to the Smithsonian institute.
marzsit, please describe the action / construction of what you call the Homogenizer....
I might have a cxouple of suggestions that will improve your setup. My brother and his friend made a headgasket with four sets of platinum points equally mounted around the cylinder. It was layered in between the gasket material like a circuit board. So instead of firing from the spark plug it fired from each set of points. The platinum points had no place to hold any carbon build up so would not foul out like a spark plug. and firing the gas mixture with four sets of spark burned the fuel vapor quicker and more completely.(old airplanes had two sparkplugs per cylinder)
Giving an increase of power with less fuel consumtion and less emissions. My idea to add to this is to reduce fuel droplet size thus increasing surface area of the fuel by using an ultrasonic mister which instantly vaporizes a drop of liquid to a finer mist than a carburator is capable of. This should also increase power while decreasing consumption andEmmisions. The reason you do not see this gasket method of spark on the market now is a sparkplug company bought their patent. Their was a drawback to the design they had not worked out at the time and that was that the gasket was thicker and you had to torque it down just right or it would blow the gasket. But this was 40 years ago and we have much better materials to work with now. I really hope you read this or anyone else . It could be an easy add on for cars well worth the cost for the increased economy and decrease of emmisions. Hopefully give a little more time for the transition to the totally electric cars that are coming. Jake The Snake Was interested in the gasket for his race cars as it would have been a huge advantage. So if you need an investor you might want to try him. It also goes to show how money trumps humanityand that big corporations (Firestone) are more concerned with the bottom line than reducing polution to save mankind. We really need to institute a crimes against humanity law for people like that and Big Pharma who suppress or overprice discoveries that benefit life.. Please send a comment should you read this. I like to think I am at least trying yo help.
Awesome thinking! We have to think outside the box! Thanks
Nice vid. How did Smokey control detonation? I know the answer was posted on his website back in 2005 or 6.
As I understand it, only liquid fuel droplets can detonate, not fuel vapor.
@@383mazda yes detonation doesn't instantly happens. One or two bad combustion cycles before will set the stage for detonation.
Always been fascinated by Smokeys Hot Vapor Engine! Daniel can this be affordably retrofitted to a Small Block Chevy?
I'll let you know.
Smokey was a genius we can all learn from his knowledge 👍👍
Any new updates or future plans with hot vapor engine videos?
Yes we are building a 2 liter 3 cylinder General Motors that will replace the 4.3 V6 and a 2.5 liter 4cyl. we will also be testing these 2 engines in our shop truck a chevy S10
He also invented the hydra boost brake system that runs off powersteering pressure. Its on trucks today!
Yunick is proof that Genius doesn't come from a $50,000.00 a year Education. So, why isn't this engine in every car on the road? It's too danged efficient & the E.P.A. couldn't figure a way to regulate it. Something like that!
Nice. Sounds like a variation of Tom Ogle's engine created in the '70s.
I have the device you need. I took all the notes from Smokey's treasure. I'm ready to produce it
Call the shop (830-885-6977) let’s talk. Thanks
I got exposed to vapor carbs in the early 70's. My grandfather had a print article from before the war. I was taking basic chemistry in Junior High and I kept coming to a conclusion that the mass of fuel used was from way rich - to way leaned. 1980 - I was at Uni and I trolled the Engineering Library for anything related to engines, the Thermo-Cycle and all info. I came across some publications from Ford. It was a heat recovery system. The temps sited lead me to believe there was misinformation in it. Again - the chemistry and mass of fuel used lead me to know that there was some fudging of numbers. I built a number of devices over the years, Got a 351 Cleveland to run 33 mpg on the highway. City milage sucked, but I was learning. I had a Dodge pick-up that went from 20mpg to 29mpg - with over 20K miles logged. Smokey's work is something I have never heard of, but I look forward to catching up. BTW - I worked on Hydrogen too. A 750 cc motorcycle - started at 37mpg. Finished at 64 mpg and it was accelerating - uphill - 75 mph - with the throttle closed. I never did get that engineers ring, but I think it would have limited me, to thinking - Inside Their Box! Cheers!
I really enjoyed your story. There is a lot to be learned but we have to allow ourselves to think outside the box. You would enjoy Smokey’s books. Book 3 is on his inventions.
We will be doing a live stream today at 3:00 pm CST hopefully you can make it. 🙏
@@MrDanielSoliz I have viewed this video a few times today. The Dodge had a 225 Slsnt 6. I did a quick calculation on the drag from the Rad Fan. I pulled it and replaced that fan with 2 electric ones off gas VW rabbits. A temp gauge, relays and redundant overide switches. In town traffic, I let one run depending on temp and the heat of the day. I knew I had hit on something when I was climbing a hill after the mod and the clutch could not hold the engine and trans together. I am 60 now. And I plan to have 33 yrs more. For more than 45 years, my question was Why? I never bothered to waste my breath trying to convince someone of my ideas. Thank you Daniel!
good stuff here..Smokey was a genius...and a good guy, too.
we both wrote for Circle Track magazine in the 1980s
@@extramile150 I bet you have some stories.
Where can I get all three books fella ??? Thanks
Contact Trish at CarbonPress she will take care of that for you.
The biggest question is were the rod bolts updated in the Iron Duke. From my experience, they can't take much more than stock load or the rod bolts stretch and fail.
On point! On the Fiero engine (2.5 Iron Duke) Smokey changed out the rod. I’ll have to do a video on what internal upgrades Smokey did to the engines. Ok,just made an executive decision today will be doing a lifestream at 3 o’clock and I’ll pull out the connecting rods and pistons that’s in the iron Duke engine and we will do a show and tell. Hopefully you can make it.
Is this possible to apply to a SBC ? Has it been done already?
The plans our to introduce a retrofit kit for the small block Chevy and Ford.
Good question .... Can't answer
Curious. I vaguely remember an old HRM article about some guy out in the desert that created an engine called the power r ring. I believe either freiburger or magnate wrote it. All I know is it was a modular device tou could couple together. And it was a 1 or 2 back page article.
I’ll have to look for that.
Very Interesting, I heard about this at least 30 years ago. I'm sure if it had any draw backs, they can be solved with todays technology. I wander why these engines never came to market??
To efficient
Damn right. Can't make millions if everything is getting 60 mpg.
@@RATTL3R186 Check the origin of gasoline, it started out as a waste by-product. . . . Until. . . .
GM and others did seriously consider this type of engine for production. The problem was, they ran right on the ragged edge of detonation and overheating. They required a lot of expensive parts and lubricants to stand up to the heat, and if the slightest thing went wrong you could burn up your engine in seconds.
@@mrdanforth3744 Thanks! I saw Smokey's fiero on here somewhere and I wondered what in the hell kinda oil was going to stand up to that kinda heat and then have to deal with the shearing in a 4 banger .
Smokey's main justification for using carburetors--aside from ease of tuning and his unfamiliarity with fuel injection--was that venturis could produce the atomization needed to initially break-down the liquid into a vapor, which itself is what the system depends upon to work. Also: It's proven the the sooner fuel is introduced to an incoming air charge, the better it mixes & cools the charge, resulting in more power. Not to mention turbos just work better when all they're pumping is vapors.
Now... imagine the level of atomization had if even a low-pressure throttle-body injection system--such as what GM had in the day--could've achieved. All it would've taken is a simple bolt-on swap to install the 2-bbl TBI GM used in place of the Rochester 2-bbl, since they were both made by the same company, and used the same mounting pattern.
All that said: Now imagine what a modern, high-pressure annular-discharge bolt-on EFI, with it's vastly better atomization, could result in...? ;)
98% on point ,you are right. Our test truck will be using fuel injection and think how easy it will be to keep the AFR constant. One of the problems of the day was the tune. 👍👍👍👍👍
Downsizing and turbocharging are popular now. Heating the intake is actually not a good thing. Two out of three ain't bad. I'm still a huge fan of Smokey's other innovations, though.
the "turbocharger" on smokey's engine is not a turbocharger, it's a homogenizer. it does not have a compressor wheel and does not provide any boost pressure, it's purpose is to mix and heat the mixture.
@@marzsit9833 : Respectfully disagree. Though you're correct about the turbo never being used for boost (absolutely), the turbo was to prevent vapor lock only. That is to say, after having the fuel and air being mixed in the carburetor, the "air fuel mixture " (vapor) was heated to 180(or so) degrees. As Ford owners often found out (back in the day) gas lines too close to the exhaust vaporized the fuel causing the engine reject it (a.k.a "vapor lock"). And too, without that small turbo >>>>the same thing happens. Side note: Smokey once said that there was also pressure regulator under that turbo also. Without which, one could expect picking up rods after they exited the oil pan [having spoken from experience]. Also, typical hp outputs were safely 1.8 per ci. Going over that mark jeopardized the engine's life. Thanks, and best regards.
well this guy is gonna go missing if he actually builds a successor
Nah, Big oil is looking to prolong the shelf life of ICE.
I love this engine I have been studying it and have been collecting items related to or personally owned by smokey my grandfather was either the first or second guy hired as a security guard for the daytona track before it was built and knew smokey who gave him stuff every year when he came to Florida for work season and I was a kid and remember seeing the fiero in person i was young and wanted to grow up to be a mechanic and my grandfather took me to meet smokey and he told me about it and I wish I could remember more but I was impressed and smokey would give stuff to my grandfather to give me (usually little things like hats and other stuff they got free from vendors but also a few other things too and just thinking about what to do with someday ) and am interested in the museum is it owned or run by smokey's family in any way?
I like you have been studying the Hot Vapor Engine since I was a kid. Love your story and how cool that you got to see the original Fiero. Smokey didn’t want his family to have or run a museum and the stuff you see is my personal collection from years of finding anything Smokey. A friend of mine Tony Allers was Smokey’s friend and has always helped Trish Yunick. Lots of stuff has been gifted to me from Tony.
I am so grateful to Tony and the Yunick family. It would be fun to here some of your stories. 🙏
@@MrDanielSoliz I remember him showing me a (I believe it was a fish model 2 or 3 carb he used on a prototype version for system and I still to this day remember exactly what it looked like on the internals of it he removed the float bowl and was describing it to me and said "don't tell anyone what I saw and how it works I'm trusting u" and he said work hard in math and science that is the key to everything
facebook.com/btrthnmike is my facebook if u want to send me a friend's request and I would like to talk about the motor and few design updates I have been working on and share some pics of few things I have smokey gave my grandfather to give to me I build custom cars trucks and restore them at shop in daytona i have been at past 9 years when I moved down here from martha's vineyard island (of coast of massachusetts where I worked for myself and other people for 24+ years before I moved)
I always thought hot fuel was the cause of vapor lock. This is the first I’m hearing of this invention.
It is under ambient air pressure. You pressurize it, I. E. the homogenizer and it becomes super fuel. Homogenizer=Turbocharger with attention to heat control.
Not sure FI, except a TBI unit, would work. Also, I had read about a ceramic engine he was working on, could the 2.2 Mopar be that animal?
I had a 1973 F100, 360cid that got 14-15mpg. Installed a precombustion catalyst from Granatelli iNDS and improved MPG to 18-19. That was with factory exhaust. Of course with these computers on wheels we have now, no matter the improvement mods one makes the MFRs have the PCM locked into using as much fuel as possible without causing corrosion that fuel can create.
And since we can't purchase gasoline anymore I refer to it as fuel. True gasoline has a different odor then what comes from the pump at a fill-up now a days
@@jamesharrison6201 it definitely does have a different smell from what I remember as a kid.
I've heard of things like this. I've heard that guys found ways to run the carb where it would vaporize the fuel and make crazy MPG. I guess this was it.
Yes , this is how Smokey did it.
@@MrDanielSoliz Uncle Tony’s Garage channel on RUclips just did a video talking about Smokey’s engine. He’s an old school hot toddler like you. I was gonna message him to hit you up.
This is basically what an oil refinery does. Takes fuel heat it, turn it into gas. Super clean burn and more fuel efficient.
@@Jos-Kapitein And how do you think distillation works? Heat crude to get different byproducts at different temps, distillation. Some are modified with esters to make certain fuels or purified and washed but it's a process of distillation.
*250 horsepower with 54 miles per gallon, why didn't this succeed, and why is no one pursuing this today...*
Great questions!
WHY NO ENGINE IN THE INTERIM 40 YEARS?
1. The first reason is OIL, not Big Oil, although that is a part of the answer too. In the early 80’s the widespread availability of synthetic motor oil and lube was a decade or two away. In order to make the engine functional at the temperatures required for the engine to achieve Hot Vapor process Smokey was using Jet Engine oil that was 98 dollars a quart.
2. Of course, Big Oil was a reason as well. After the Oil Embargo of 73 there was a push toward fuel economy. But by the time Ronald Reagan assumed the Presidency, one of the first acts was to remove the solar panels from the White House roof. The rest of the decade saw a move toward less of an emphasis on the fears of the 70s and the return of gas shortages.
3. The OEMs had ideas of their own and moved back toward the idea that cooling an engine was the answer. They had also made a commitment toward EFI and they were not going backward. The culture of that time (Pre- Jobs, Gates and Tech Entrepreneurs) tended to look down on engineers without formal degrees. What Marlan Davis called, “it wasn’t invented here syndrome” in his article for HotRod Magazine: “It was the "not invented here syndrome" rearing its ugly head again. “How could a couple of gearhead hot rodders know more than all of Detroit's best engineering talent?”
4. Lack of access to the original engines. Smokey made the conscious decision and concerted effort to keep the hard tech from the “suits” There is good evidence that even trained engineers with access don’t understand what they are seeing and misidentify and misunderstand what is in plain sight. To the trained eye Yunick’s efforts to effectively camouflage critical parts and components is evident. This pattern of false bread crumb trails carried over to the patents themselves where Smokey would use in-exact, misleading, or made-up descriptions as well as omissions to throw potential IP thieves off track. We have already identified at least one instance where the drawing in a patent is not the same as the working physical engine.
5. There is no doubt that the fall of John DeLorean was a crucial set back. And, the Hunt Brothers were having their own problems with Law Enforcement. However ultimately, it was probably Henry “Smokey” Yunick that made the conscious decision himself. There was no arguing Yunick’s genius. Nor his eccentricities and “My way or the highway” terms. He was now in his 60s and was slowing down, thinking about writing a book or two. He was already a legend, decorated WWII Pilot, Inventor and had won over 50 races in every type of auto racing. He had business interest in South America. He had spent decades being challenged by Auto and Race Execs. The endless parade of engineering teams alone must have been exhausting, always the fear that they are going to steal your knowledge and work. To prevent this there was always a false trail in the treasure maps he left behind, “It is really quite simple, and I am careful not saying too much. This is the only way I can be sure nobody knows how the system exactly works says Smokey” Swedish Hotrod Magazine
6. At the end, maybe he just got tired, to quote him as he closes out the chapter of something that he pursued for half his life, “These things start out as a little conversation and like a hurricane get spinning faster and faster and I guess where the inventor generally gets blowed out the side someplace then the wind and rain goes away and in thirty days it is like it never happened. As it stands today the Smithsonian has inquired about a hot vapor engine for their museum. Maybe you can check it out there if they never get it into vehicles. They’ve also got one of my hats.” Eating the Elephant page 249.
Lucky you. Where are you can I come and work by you?!
How detailed is the information & how hard is it to rep la cate . Could an average machanic do this ?
It wasn’t cost effective and was hard to make some of the parts back then also the oil Smokey used was $98 a quart. We are developing the next generation engine using everything I’v learned from Smokey’s engines and using today’s manufacturing and casting techniques and today materials. Our engines will be fuel injected and take advantage of modern coatings and technology.
@@MrDanielSoliz : Taking a quote directly from Vol.1 2nd edition Hot Rod Magazine entitled "Engines" ....I believe it started with "Yes, it does get rubber in all four gears" (reference the Fiaro). Later in the same article....it denotes that the homogenized system only works on carburetor systems; primarily because the fuel / air mix has to be completed before it proceeds to the heating processes. Now, if you can get to happen with fuel injection....I suspect it be an EFI Edelbrock type manifold and not a fuel rail, right? Then ....there's still the turbo and pressure regulator needed.....too. Also, what does one tell the computer and O2 sensor not being wrong??? Hope you all the best in accomplishing this. Please keep us up to date.
I remember the Fiero he made. Einstein of engines
I wish i could have stood over his shoulder just watching and listening
Were half of these hot vapor engines found in a lake in Florida?
No they were in Smokey’s shop in Florida, ever been to Florida?
How does it sound though? That’s what I’m waiting for. 😎
There are a number of videos on Danny's Facebook page where he runs the chrysler engine and one here on RUclips. It is about 9 years old, and the audio is not the best, but you can hear it!
How did he solve the valves burning up? The head cracking and the engine block cracking? On a four stroke under compression it vaporizes the fuel. Also the fuel must be compressed after it's vaporized . So a carburetor would not work. Full vacuum then full compression. That's how you properly atomize gasoline
Smokey was a good old Pennsylvania boy.
I unhooked my 8 h.p outboard motors gas line trying to run it out of gas for the winter. I took it off at the motor and it ran for over 8 minutes! It had to be running on vapors.
Yes it was running on vapor.👍