This *truly* could have been one of the best FPS games ever made, with all the interactivity and details in the levels, it would have been great if it was actually pulled off and directed competently. Sucks that great projects have such horrible managers. Thanks for covering the crazy history Frame!
@Pathetic but harmless my guess is that they feel like they need to add some sort of gimmick to stand out in the saturated videogame market over story/ fun gameplay.
Duke Nukem Forever could have been one of the best FPSes ever made, but the fact they tried as hard as possible to make sure it was that is what ruined any chances of it being that.
Too many gaming companies either employ college buddies with no experience to develop AAA titles. That or hiring activists who only want to grift money and wreck the industry.
I would have respect for George if he just admitted his mistakes and apologized, but based on his twitter feed hes seems much more inclined to deny any responsibility for the games delay.
It honestly reminds me of Overkill's The Walking Dead videogame. They switched game engines halfway through development and so they had to crunch the game out in like 6 months. Then when it was released their license for the Walking Dead franchise was revoked and Steam removed it from the store.
This phase of development can best be summed up with the sentence "And then along came *GEORGE".* If George wasn't in charge the whole way through, things would've been better and less spiteful, but alas...
meanwhile, in the modern era, I can think of some game franchises that desperately need to look at what other games are doing mechanics-wise... This part was really fascinating. 11/10 "and Broussard took that personally."
Incredible work. For 15 years DNF was my most wanted game. Duke Nukem 3D made me a gamer. The development of DNF is fascinating....excellent job with this video series! Can't wait for the restoration project, maybe now I'll finally get to play the game I envisioned as a child
What really bothers me is that George Broussard gets offended and plays victim when someone mentions his many mistakes even after all his decisions are the ones that directly killed the franchise
Been waiting for this next part for a while. The series so far has been the best rundown of DNF’s history (especially in terms of technical details) that I’ve seen, and I recommend it any chance I get. Keep up the good work, love your stuff.
I can't believe that at one point they put a sentient Bad Dragon design in the game. I'd assume this is when the scales started tipping from "naughty and funny" to "you guys have problems". Also, it might have been better to specifically mention that Scott Miller was co-founder with George instead of just "founder". I kept wondering why nobody ever disciplined George.
Every single time I read or watch a documentary (including this one) on DNF there seems to have been one key to its many many many delays and engine changes... Broussard... dude should have stopped after the Unreal change IMO if not after the first engine change
This game ended up being a lesson on the importance of knowing when to stop chasing tech advancements and just focus on finishing what's already there, they always had the option to make a sequel after that and it would have been the perfect excuse to go for a wholly new engine. It's not surprising at all that eventually the devs just gave up and started leaving.
Also what made the game appealing In My Memory was that it had a personality that the character was fun and he was engaging and he threw off these witty one-liners (even though he stole most of them from the Evil Dead). It wasn't so much the goddamn innovation of the technology it was the fact that the whole thing worked together as a fun experience and by dragging it out and being a stupid perfectionist George made sure that by the time the game was released his late 20s audience that originally was interested was now in their early forties and had completely moved on
@@angelainamarie9656 Talk about perfectionism, any devs should learn from the like of Naughty Dogg & From Software how to be like that. Doing a great job on every game & sequel they worked on. Naughty Dogg & From Software are a perfect example of how perfectionism executed their job well.
@@angelainamarie9656 Indeed that's all i remember of Duke and also games like Shadow Warrior, Blood and Redneck Rampage, it was always the charm and constant gunfights that draw me in.
By 2006 standarts DNF already looked like a generic mediocre game. HL2, Doom 3, Halo 2, FEAR and other top notch FPSs was released.... Im not even saying about other games of a different genres. New HD PS3 era came up (2006-2012), and there was tons of similar games. Games are different now, industry is different. It was a completly different times, like it or not, there was no "old school pc era" at this point. DNF was too damn late. And there was tons of other games around the corner: Bioshock, Halo 3, Unreal Engine 3.0 games with cool graphics, Portal, STALKER, Crysis, Call of Duty 4, god know what else... Internet came up (at least in your 1st world countries), cooperative gameplay booming... etc etc... It was. Too. Damn. Late. imo
There's something to be said when it comes to games rushing development to meet deadlines, there's another to know when to stop as well, duke 3d didn't have the most impressive tech at the time but what made it stand out from its contemporaries was the fact that it had personality, good weapons, fun level design, interactivity and modding capabilities, DNF looked to have most of that by 2001, there needed to be a clear end goal to work up to, and there needed to be someone there to keep Broussard in check and tell him "no", the game probably woulda been out by 2002 or 2003, it easily would have been one of the best FPS games of all time.
"Either we're stupid & clueless or we believe in what we're working on". Hey, George, is this multiple choice? Cause I'm starting to think it's "all of the above"...
Just saw that at the 11:06 mark you used my DNF Enhanced mod to showcase the 2003 footage, noticed that by the logo in the upper left haha. Anyway, great video, can't wait for the next part.
6:24 that's so interesting, the origin story. The most peculiar multiplayer map imo is the sandbox, which I always found to be "odd" for having a lot of textures and work put into it for things not likely to be used in Duke's single player campaign. I'd expect multiplayer maps to be mostly re-used assets from the core game - most of the multiplayer maps look like they could come right out of areas in the campaign, but this children's playground behind "Duke's School for Gifted Students" is unique. I wonder how much of this map was originally intended to be in this scrapped origin story. It wouldn't be the first time parts from Duke's early builds appeared in the 2011 multiplayer content - I recently discovered the "firebreathing dragon" statue was repurposed into one of the Duke Nukem action figure unlockables in Duke's Digs.
"We could go another 5 years without shipping a game" - Said in front of guys he is paying peanuts with promises of royalties. * Takes crushing bite from party cater-sized sandwich * "Oh, and the game needs hoagies. Dynamic mayonnaise"
The funny thing about these videos is my brain always gets so sucked into the information that I keep expecting a happy ending along the lines of "and the game was finally finished!" to come up. But then I remember the reality lol
If there's anything that this series and the 2001 leak show is just how depressing this games development got especially around the 2006 mark. I can't imagine being one of those developers who never saw an end in sight. It sucks because what could have been may have been so much better. I hope one day we get to see more of the 03 and 06 builds, but I can't help but think the more that comes out about this project the more depressing the story gets.
This series of videos is deeply interesting and extremely well-researched. Thank you for compiling and presenting all of this information so cleanly and clearly - I’m sure the research aspect alone took AGES. Looking forward to whenever you can come up with more :)
I know that there's a potential movie in the works. I would love for either that, or one more game to be Duke's final chapter. You follow the "Ash vs Evil Dead" approach. Make him a joke at this point. He's old and almost forgotten. His history is being re-written as being a macho pig his entire life. He's got a couple sidekicks to bounce off of, and to roll their eyes at him... but he is the ONLY one who can save us from another invasion, and in the end, he gets the respect he deserves... ... and it needs to be called "Duke Nukem Must Die."
It doesn't sound like they ever truly sat down to develop a video game within those first 10 years. It just seems like a bunch of proof of concept ideas that 3DR would get up and running but never polish and then move onto the next "wouldn't it be cool if..." idea. Instead of changing the lighting to match Doom 3 and the physics to match Half-Life they really needed to stop with the engine and work on what they had. Which sadly (only because we will never get to play it) actually looked really flipping cool.
And after all _this_ shit, they were still five years out. Some of the best games ever made were severely constrained by the limitations of the technology available to them during development. Super Mario Bros., for instance, has been described as the best possible game designed within the constraints of a Famicom cartridge without any kind of mapper expansion chips. There's a lot to be said for this philosophy in game design. Duke Nukem Forever is the poster child for horizon-chasing development hell, the hubris of constantly wanting more instead of doing the best you can with what you've got.
I waited so many years.... Waiting and waiting for that 2003 version.... Oooo George Broussard... Keeping us waiting... Released Prey in the interim and in the back of my mind I was like where the F is duke nukem forever.
Duke Forever was doomed from the start imo. It took the formula too far away from what made Duke3D incredible, just to be like other games of the period. All they had to do was make Duke3D 2 with better graphics, a better level editor and more weapons/enemies then they would have had another solid gold game and they could have released it in a sensible time frame.
The irony is that if the original engine was used, DNF would age much better today, seeing how the retro scene is literally coming back the past few years without a shred of doubt as popular, if not more than ever. So trying to be new and fresh doesn't always stay fresh in most cases.
Great, video, very well done. There were some screenshots and footage in there that I've never seen before. Such a shame it ended the way it did. I remember Christmas 2007 and seeing the amazing wallpaper they released of all of the enemies in the game and I thought it must be close to release by now... then it took another 4 years. And now it's been out 11 years. How time flies...
The development of DNF is so funny in a tragic way. If every distinct build was finished we could have gotten at least 5 games. Instead, the only FPSs we got since 3D were the GBA game and Forever smh
I know that you're busy and/or planning out your budgeting, but I really hope you get a chance to at least leave an impression on the recently released Atari 50 collection.
@@FrameRater Thanks for the Response. You were one person that I thought of when I first heard about it and when it's releasing, as you had such a passion for that Era of Atari. Wish you the best.
To me the 2003 - 2006 era was where Duke Nukem Forever started to have an identity crisis. What they had in 2002 was going to be absolutely AMAZING and stunning to play. They already had tech in DNF 2002 that could compete with both Doom 3 & Half Life 2 and rival them with fun, addictive, FPS action Duke style. Had they shipped what they had then it would have been a classic, sold extremely well, and 3D Realms would still be owned and run by the same people to this day. The 2003 build they had looked cool in the environments where it was dark and had little light sources to brighten it up. Alot of the other areas of the game by 2003 though looked awful in comparison to the 2001 build. Too many of the maps looked way too dark and those that did have light in them looked shitty with the renderer they were using. Just look at the Lake Mead level compared to how it looks in 2001 and it's a huge difference, but in a negative way. 2004 would have been very boring if the game only had one enemy type to fight since variety with the enemies and weapon roster are what make FPS's great and fun to play. 2005 & 2006 look really buggy and unfinished as if the team was making the entire game from scratch instead of using what they already had established when it came to levels and weapons. Although, I will say the 2006 version of the Lady Killer Casinos entrance looks INCREDIBLE and might be the best version of Dukes casino out of all the versions of DNF. 3D Realms was definitely struggling with the game during these years and I'm sure that it didn't help that so many other good games were coming out and doing so well while DNF was stuck in all this mess. I really feel for the developers who had to work on the game during this time to be told of constant delays and restarts and all that work thrown to the wayside it's terrible and really unfortunate. I would still like to see their work on the game from 03 to 06 one day just as an explorable curiosity.
I remember Jeff Gerstmann's epic rant about DNF in a 2006-2007 episode of the Hotspot, imagining all of the wasted man hours on different engine builds, and George Broussard's insane online squabbling with forum posters at the time.
If Broussard allowed the team to just create what they wanted then a version of this game could have come out with penis monsters and a cool truck segment. What a shame.
2:00 This needs to be said, how the fuck did NOBODY at 3D Realms reel in Broussard's constant fart huffing? He didn't own an actual money stake in the company and his sole duty previous to being lead developer was to be Miller's court jester. How did ANYONE take this guy seriously when he was trying to claim he and he alone would take a game where a Bruce Campbell knockoff takes steroids to improve his health, parties with strippers and shoots stuff, and turn it into the Sgt Pepper/Dark Side of the Moon of video games? If Miller didn't have the balls to fire Broussard after the SNOW LEVELS fiasco, then he deserved to lose his company, and everything with it. The moral to the story is simple, don't hire your college frat buddy to run your company.
If one day 3d realms or apogee is able to get back duke nukem I think they could use a lot of concepts (like story, art style , weapons, etc)from duke nukem forever and apply them to many games
Awesome video series! Pretty flattered that you used footage from my AI upscale of the original 2001 trailer throughout this video(and the previous one), in addition to Burning Fish's remake. Needless to say, I made mine *BEFORE* the leak! 🙂
eughh man, "that's some GOOD on the ole ' georgie!" then charlies quote "a WHOLE different... SUBJECTIVE... BEAST.." holy fuck that was hilarious, i LOVE these videos you did on DNF as a whole man, you've done a phenomenal job, have an awesome voice, and a great CONCISE vision for how the development of the game went, phenomenal work
I feel like once development rebooted again in 2003 it was already to late. The game lost its charm after that. So thankful we got the leak we did, and ESP that is has the entire source code for everything. But man I wish we could get a leak from 2002 maybe late 2002. Right before they implemented the new renderer with fully dynamic lighting and shadows (including stencil shadows like Doom 3 of course). Yes the leak we got is not even close to a finished game, but it's far from complete smoke and mirrors. Many levels are blocked out, many of them quite large. You can easily get the general story beat just from loading levels from the menu, but esp looking at the levels in the editor, looking at code for scripts that don't work in game etc. I don't know about 90%, but I believe without a doubt there is a significantly more finished version of the "2001 version" of DNF. Take what we got in the leak and add least a year of dev time and yea they def would have gotten more done.
Oh and looking at the source code it's sad to see so many 3D Realms employees work that ended up right in the trash. Thousands of lines of C++ code, each feature/project usually done by one person. That never made it in the final game and thus, got thrown away at some point. Don't blame the ones for leaving that did at all.
DNF release in 2001 could've easily rivaled or absolutely make a game like Return to castle Wolfenstein, Red Faction & Halo:CE (which were arguably the best FPS got released at the time) run out of their money for sure
at 24:00 the voice is saying "Punk(?) you're gonna wish you where never born". I'm pretty sure that's an EDF soldier, one of your squad mates because earlier in the video when the pigcop breaks through the door you can hear the same voice, seemingly coming from an EDF soldier saying "Let's dance(?) little piggy". Given that in 2011 the EDF say shit when you fight with them and games of the time where implementing big groups of soldiers who fight with you and do call outs i'm pretty sure that's what that is. P.S. whats the artbook at 23:04? I'd like to cop one.
If im not wrong the 1998 ( unreal ) version was developed until 2006? 8 years in development of a same version? Before was the Quake 2 build ( 1997-98 ) and final ( 2007-11 ).
@@FrameRater that sounds awesome... One day, you reviewing romhacks/improvements of your favorite childhood games might be a good idea, down the line, as well. Or maybe BAD GAMES you covered before that is immensely improved by a romhack? Just a thought :)
That reply from George makes him come across as a manchild. I don't want to defend game CEOs; however, all the guy was saying that they trust George and his team to make something presentable to get ready for release. My theory is that George was using the lack of time restriction to experiment like DNF was a pet project and got angry when a deadline was even hinted at. I think DNF would have come out much sooner if the publishers pestered George persistently instead of dropping when nearing being finished because he saw something shiny.
This series was awesome. Are you done done or will we get another one? I feel like you still need to cover the remaining drama until the final release. I remember when it was officially canceled... then officially resumed.
DN3D was never a tech fest compared to quake, just making a damn good fun game which doesnt look that outdated at all, and make the difference with details and game design. Then why they went to tech fest shit is beyond me. Just release quake engined dnf first, then quake 2 engined sequel and all could have been very fine
Thank you and the team for all the research done on this project. Being a perfectionist myself I do honestly feel bad for the team. Sometimes you just have to ship something out and learn from it. They could have made 3 games in that timespan lol.
I've played the leak of the old DN Forever and man, they got sooo close of having a good game, too bad they were too deep into the scope creep hole to finish what was already good enough of a Duke game.
It's ironic how George was either delusional or really believed in his work. He was clearly both, and the mentality about "never ship a game early" is good but it's usually about extending the polishing period of the game to improve UI, stability, rendering, and occasional little improvements to gameplay and graphics but it's not about overhauling levels, changing story and larger things like that :)
In fact, I think that Patreon's official funding of game developers like DragonSnow with his game Changed can now make George Broussard's development hell rules completely obsolete.
The funny thing is that George was insisting on making the best game ever by copying other games... Best games ever are built on innovation not imitation
This *truly* could have been one of the best FPS games ever made, with all the interactivity and details in the levels, it would have been great if it was actually pulled off and directed competently. Sucks that great projects have such horrible managers. Thanks for covering the crazy history Frame!
@Pathetic but harmless my guess is that they feel like they need to add some sort of gimmick to stand out in the saturated videogame market over story/ fun gameplay.
Duke Nukem Forever could have been one of the best FPSes ever made, but the fact they tried as hard as possible to make sure it was that is what ruined any chances of it being that.
Too many gaming companies either employ college buddies with no experience to develop AAA titles. That or hiring activists who only want to grift money and wreck the industry.
You look so mad about it.
I would have respect for George if he just admitted his mistakes and apologized, but based on his twitter feed hes seems much more inclined to deny any responsibility for the games delay.
The guy had almost everything to do with the delays.
Charley says, when George travell almost 1 year, game was in almost shippable state.
Its so ironic that in the end, George Broussard was ultimately the ‘final boss’
Reported for spoilers
@CranialDamage The post game secret boss? XD
Sequel hook villain
That was his lifelong ambition.
This development cycle is honestly very sad.
Feature Creep Agile or as I like to call it, FRAGILE
It honestly reminds me of Overkill's The Walking Dead videogame. They switched game engines halfway through development and so they had to crunch the game out in like 6 months. Then when it was released their license for the Walking Dead franchise was revoked and Steam removed it from the store.
This phase of development can best be summed up with the sentence "And then along came *GEORGE".* If George wasn't in charge the whole way through, things would've been better and less spiteful, but alas...
meanwhile, in the modern era, I can think of some game franchises that desperately need to look at what other games are doing mechanics-wise...
This part was really fascinating. 11/10 "and Broussard took that personally."
Broussard only wanted DNF to look at nice as possible. I'd say the game looked fantastic for the time.
Incredible work.
For 15 years DNF was my most wanted game. Duke Nukem 3D made me a gamer. The development of DNF is fascinating....excellent job with this video series!
Can't wait for the restoration project, maybe now I'll finally get to play the game I envisioned as a child
Duke Nukem Forever was the closest thing I ever had to my childhood being shat upon a second time after the disappointment of Superman 64.
What really bothers me is that George Broussard gets offended and plays victim when someone mentions his many mistakes even after all his decisions are the ones that directly killed the franchise
I bet that at one point in 2002 it was 90% complete but the goal posts kept moving
Thing with a piece of softare that is 90% complete is that remaining 10% take the other 90% of work.
Been waiting for this next part for a while. The series so far has been the best rundown of DNF’s history (especially in terms of technical details) that I’ve seen, and I recommend it any chance I get. Keep up the good work, love your stuff.
I can't believe that at one point they put a sentient Bad Dragon design in the game. I'd assume this is when the scales started tipping from "naughty and funny" to "you guys have problems".
Also, it might have been better to specifically mention that Scott Miller was co-founder with George instead of just "founder". I kept wondering why nobody ever disciplined George.
Honesty, that explains why it takes forever, not Duke but George Broussard.
Can't help but wonder if DNF released earlier right around the 2001/2002 build, we could've gotten a remaster by now.
I just realized that, Duke Nukem Forever's abreviation, DNF, also stands for "did not finish".
Every single time I read or watch a documentary (including this one) on DNF there seems to have been one key to its many many many delays and engine changes... Broussard... dude should have stopped after the Unreal change IMO if not after the first engine change
With this old school perfectionism mentality Broussard fell in similar trap that John Romero did with Daikatana.
This game ended up being a lesson on the importance of knowing when to stop chasing tech advancements and just focus on finishing what's already there, they always had the option to make a sequel after that and it would have been the perfect excuse to go for a wholly new engine. It's not surprising at all that eventually the devs just gave up and started leaving.
Also what made the game appealing In My Memory was that it had a personality that the character was fun and he was engaging and he threw off these witty one-liners (even though he stole most of them from the Evil Dead). It wasn't so much the goddamn innovation of the technology it was the fact that the whole thing worked together as a fun experience and by dragging it out and being a stupid perfectionist George made sure that by the time the game was released his late 20s audience that originally was interested was now in their early forties and had completely moved on
@@angelainamarie9656 Talk about perfectionism, any devs should learn from the like of Naughty Dogg & From Software how to be like that. Doing a great job on every game & sequel they worked on. Naughty Dogg & From Software are a perfect example of how perfectionism executed their job well.
@@angelainamarie9656 Indeed that's all i remember of Duke and also games like Shadow Warrior, Blood and Redneck Rampage, it was always the charm and constant gunfights that draw me in.
What Duke Nukem suffered from is called "Scope Creep", and it can kill a project.
By 2006 standarts DNF already looked like a generic mediocre game. HL2, Doom 3, Halo 2, FEAR and other top notch FPSs was released.... Im not even saying about other games of a different genres. New HD PS3 era came up (2006-2012), and there was tons of similar games. Games are different now, industry is different. It was a completly different times, like it or not, there was no "old school pc era" at this point. DNF was too damn late. And there was tons of other games around the corner: Bioshock, Halo 3, Unreal Engine 3.0 games with cool graphics, Portal, STALKER, Crysis, Call of Duty 4, god know what else... Internet came up (at least in your 1st world countries), cooperative gameplay booming... etc etc... It was. Too. Damn. Late. imo
There's something to be said when it comes to games rushing development to meet deadlines, there's another to know when to stop as well, duke 3d didn't have the most impressive tech at the time but what made it stand out from its contemporaries was the fact that it had personality, good weapons, fun level design, interactivity and modding capabilities, DNF looked to have most of that by 2001, there needed to be a clear end goal to work up to, and there needed to be someone there to keep Broussard in check and tell him "no", the game probably woulda been out by 2002 or 2003, it easily would have been one of the best FPS games of all time.
First Serious Sam history, now Duke nukem history. Keep it serious bro 💪💣
The 2003 version looks better than the 2011 version
The arrogance of Broussard, and how he was not getting stuff done... It is remarkable he wasn't fired as the team leader.
How does one "fire" the owner of a company?
"Either we're stupid & clueless or we believe in what we're working on". Hey, George, is this multiple choice? Cause I'm starting to think it's "all of the above"...
Ah we're finally in the era where DNF development time became a punchline.
Just saw that at the 11:06 mark you used my DNF Enhanced mod to showcase the 2003 footage, noticed that by the logo in the upper left haha. Anyway, great video, can't wait for the next part.
I've enjoyed it so far! Looking forward to further updates. =)
@@FrameRater Thanks, i'm now working on revamping the levels, and the next update will feature a new Duke Nukem model.
I'm glad modern 3dRealms is making kickass retro shooters. I had a blast with Ion Fury and others.
6:24 that's so interesting, the origin story. The most peculiar multiplayer map imo is the sandbox, which I always found to be "odd" for having a lot of textures and work put into it for things not likely to be used in Duke's single player campaign. I'd expect multiplayer maps to be mostly re-used assets from the core game - most of the multiplayer maps look like they could come right out of areas in the campaign, but this children's playground behind "Duke's School for Gifted Students" is unique.
I wonder how much of this map was originally intended to be in this scrapped origin story. It wouldn't be the first time parts from Duke's early builds appeared in the 2011 multiplayer content - I recently discovered the "firebreathing dragon" statue was repurposed into one of the Duke Nukem action figure unlockables in Duke's Digs.
"We could go another 5 years without shipping a game" - Said in front of guys he is paying peanuts with promises of royalties. * Takes crushing bite from party cater-sized sandwich * "Oh, and the game needs hoagies. Dynamic mayonnaise"
The funny thing about these videos is my brain always gets so sucked into the information that I keep expecting a happy ending along the lines of "and the game was finally finished!" to come up.
But then I remember the reality lol
If there's anything that this series and the 2001 leak show is just how depressing this games development got especially around the 2006 mark.
I can't imagine being one of those developers who never saw an end in sight. It sucks because what could have been may have been so much better.
I hope one day we get to see more of the 03 and 06 builds, but I can't help but think the more that comes out about this project the more depressing the story gets.
This series of videos is deeply interesting and extremely well-researched. Thank you for compiling and presenting all of this information so cleanly and clearly - I’m sure the research aspect alone took AGES. Looking forward to whenever you can come up with more :)
I know that there's a potential movie in the works. I would love for either that, or one more game to be Duke's final chapter.
You follow the "Ash vs Evil Dead" approach. Make him a joke at this point. He's old and almost forgotten. His history is being re-written as being a macho pig his entire life. He's got a couple sidekicks to bounce off of, and to roll their eyes at him... but he is the ONLY one who can save us from another invasion, and in the end, he gets the respect he deserves...
... and it needs to be called "Duke Nukem Must Die."
It doesn't sound like they ever truly sat down to develop a video game within those first 10 years. It just seems like a bunch of proof of concept ideas that 3DR would get up and running but never polish and then move onto the next "wouldn't it be cool if..." idea. Instead of changing the lighting to match Doom 3 and the physics to match Half-Life they really needed to stop with the engine and work on what they had. Which sadly (only because we will never get to play it) actually looked really flipping cool.
DNF didn't need to be the best game ever, it just had to be a good game.
Then if they wanted to add more features and new tech then make a sequel.
And after all _this_ shit, they were still five years out. Some of the best games ever made were severely constrained by the limitations of the technology available to them during development. Super Mario Bros., for instance, has been described as the best possible game designed within the constraints of a Famicom cartridge without any kind of mapper expansion chips. There's a lot to be said for this philosophy in game design. Duke Nukem Forever is the poster child for horizon-chasing development hell, the hubris of constantly wanting more instead of doing the best you can with what you've got.
I believe they'd completed the first 90% and only had the last 90% to go.
In the timespan of Duke Nukem Forever, I finished elementary school and highschool and it still wasn't out.
They took our babes, they took our Duke, they took our 3D Realms.
Long story short: Daaamn you George Broussard!
I waited so many years.... Waiting and waiting for that 2003 version.... Oooo George Broussard... Keeping us waiting... Released Prey in the interim and in the back of my mind I was like where the F is duke nukem forever.
Cool video! Thanks for documenting all this stuff
Always bet on Frame
Duke Forever was doomed from the start imo. It took the formula too far away from what made Duke3D incredible, just to be like other games of the period. All they had to do was make Duke3D 2 with better graphics, a better level editor and more weapons/enemies then they would have had another solid gold game and they could have released it in a sensible time frame.
The irony is that if the original engine was used, DNF would age much better today, seeing how the retro scene is literally coming back the past few years without a shred of doubt as popular, if not more than ever. So trying to be new and fresh doesn't always stay fresh in most cases.
Great, video, very well done. There were some screenshots and footage in there that I've never seen before. Such a shame it ended the way it did.
I remember Christmas 2007 and seeing the amazing wallpaper they released of all of the enemies in the game and I thought it must be close to release by now... then it took another 4 years. And now it's been out 11 years. How time flies...
Similar video should be made for Daikatana
The development of DNF is so funny in a tragic way. If every distinct build was finished we could have gotten at least 5 games.
Instead, the only FPSs we got since 3D were the GBA game and Forever smh
I know that you're busy and/or planning out your budgeting, but I really hope you get a chance to at least leave an impression on the recently released Atari 50 collection.
I'm thinking I will eventually, but probably not for a while. Based on what I've seen, looks really good.
@@FrameRater Thanks for the Response. You were one person that I thought of when I first heard about it and when it's releasing, as you had such a passion for that Era of Atari.
Wish you the best.
I'm surprised T2 didn't make a move to can George sooner.
2:04 Why does this kinda sound like Justin Roiland and Jerma
To me the 2003 - 2006 era was where Duke Nukem Forever started to have an identity crisis. What they had in 2002 was going to be absolutely AMAZING and stunning to play. They already had tech in DNF 2002 that could compete with both Doom 3 & Half Life 2 and rival them with fun, addictive, FPS action Duke style. Had they shipped what they had then it would have been a classic, sold extremely well, and 3D Realms would still be owned and run by the same people to this day. The 2003 build they had looked cool in the environments where it was dark and had little light sources to brighten it up. Alot of the other areas of the game by 2003 though looked awful in comparison to the 2001 build. Too many of the maps looked way too dark and those that did have light in them looked shitty with the renderer they were using. Just look at the Lake Mead level compared to how it looks in 2001 and it's a huge difference, but in a negative way.
2004 would have been very boring if the game only had one enemy type to fight since variety with the enemies and weapon roster are what make FPS's great and fun to play. 2005 & 2006 look really buggy and unfinished as if the team was making the entire game from scratch instead of using what they already had established when it came to levels and weapons. Although, I will say the 2006 version of the Lady Killer Casinos entrance looks INCREDIBLE and might be the best version of Dukes casino out of all the versions of DNF.
3D Realms was definitely struggling with the game during these years and I'm sure that it didn't help that so many other good games were coming out and doing so well while DNF was stuck in all this mess. I really feel for the developers who had to work on the game during this time to be told of constant delays and restarts and all that work thrown to the wayside it's terrible and really unfortunate. I would still like to see their work on the game from 03 to 06 one day just as an explorable curiosity.
Just do the baseline game in 1 outdated engine then restart it from skratch once and for all.
Adding minor feature 1 by 1 is just a pain in the ass.
I remember Jeff Gerstmann's epic rant about DNF in a 2006-2007 episode of the Hotspot, imagining all of the wasted man hours on different engine builds, and George Broussard's insane online squabbling with forum posters at the time.
Call me stupid but why was Brussard able to stop the game from being outsourced? Does he own 3D Realms and the IP?
They both co-founded 3D Realms/Apogee, so I imagine they would both have to agree for it to happen.
If Broussard allowed the team to just create what they wanted then a version of this game could have come out with penis monsters and a cool truck segment. What a shame.
2001/2 version was the peak of DNF. Should have done it like that and much before Doom 3 and Half Life 2
Hopefully they'll reboot this franchise one day
This series is awesom , great video my dude !
2:00 This needs to be said, how the fuck did NOBODY at 3D Realms reel in Broussard's constant fart huffing? He didn't own an actual money stake in the company and his sole duty previous to being lead developer was to be Miller's court jester. How did ANYONE take this guy seriously when he was trying to claim he and he alone would take a game where a Bruce Campbell knockoff takes steroids to improve his health, parties with strippers and shoots stuff, and turn it into the Sgt Pepper/Dark Side of the Moon of video games? If Miller didn't have the balls to fire Broussard after the SNOW LEVELS fiasco, then he deserved to lose his company, and everything with it. The moral to the story is simple, don't hire your college frat buddy to run your company.
Oh man, I remember that snow levels comment now. Did I mention that in the video? Edit: Yes, at 1:38.
Frame returns with the next DNF vid time to get hyped!!
23:55 It says "You were gonna wish you were never born!"
Been waiting for the continuing tale of this dumpster fire
Wow. What a reception.
Very cool. I don't know how all this reminds me of the Driv3r fiasco.
16:38 - yes please
I mean prey had very interesting development cycle, but im afraid that theres too little info on net to make a vid
If one day 3d realms or apogee is able to get back duke nukem I think they could use a lot of concepts (like story, art style , weapons, etc)from duke nukem forever and apply them to many games
I think Phantom Fury is doing a bit of that.
Awesome video series! Pretty flattered that you used footage from my AI upscale of the original 2001 trailer throughout this video(and the previous one), in addition to Burning Fish's remake. Needless to say, I made mine *BEFORE* the leak! 🙂
Thanks for your preservation! The 2003 upscale is particularly clean, well done.
@@FrameRater Thanks!! The '03 footage was already 720p and far less compressed, so it made for a much smoother conversion.
Shortcut DNF sums up whole story about this game...
I guess that what happens when you let a terrible leader lead
eughh man, "that's some GOOD on the ole ' georgie!" then charlies quote "a WHOLE different... SUBJECTIVE... BEAST.." holy fuck that was hilarious, i LOVE these videos you did on DNF as a whole man, you've done a phenomenal job, have an awesome voice, and a great CONCISE vision for how the development of the game went, phenomenal work
Just when I get used to no one uploading on Sundays...
the game ever
I feel like once development rebooted again in 2003 it was already to late. The game lost its charm after that. So thankful we got the leak we did, and ESP that is has the entire source code for everything. But man I wish we could get a leak from 2002 maybe late 2002. Right before they implemented the new renderer with fully dynamic lighting and shadows (including stencil shadows like Doom 3 of course). Yes the leak we got is not even close to a finished game, but it's far from complete smoke and mirrors. Many levels are blocked out, many of them quite large. You can easily get the general story beat just from loading levels from the menu, but esp looking at the levels in the editor, looking at code for scripts that don't work in game etc. I don't know about 90%, but I believe without a doubt there is a significantly more finished version of the "2001 version" of DNF. Take what we got in the leak and add least a year of dev time and yea they def would have gotten more done.
YEAH, FRAME RATER
Oh and looking at the source code it's sad to see so many 3D Realms employees work that ended up right in the trash. Thousands of lines of C++ code, each feature/project usually done by one person. That never made it in the final game and thus, got thrown away at some point. Don't blame the ones for leaving that did at all.
DNF release in 2001 could've easily rivaled or absolutely make a game like Return to castle Wolfenstein, Red Faction & Halo:CE (which were arguably the best FPS got released at the time) run out of their money for sure
Did you ever cover why the “Ego” bar changes to a “God” bar in some builds? Whats up with that?
as soon as I heard the Earthworm Jim music I started to have flashbacks to Duke Nukem on the Sega Genesis
at 24:00 the voice is saying "Punk(?) you're gonna wish you where never born". I'm pretty sure that's an EDF soldier, one of your squad mates because earlier in the video when the pigcop breaks through the door you can hear the same voice, seemingly coming from an EDF soldier saying "Let's dance(?) little piggy". Given that in 2011 the EDF say shit when you fight with them and games of the time where implementing big groups of soldiers who fight with you and do call outs i'm pretty sure that's what that is.
P.S. whats the artbook at 23:04? I'd like to cop one.
no man can defy a god.
If im not wrong the 1998 ( unreal ) version was developed until 2006? 8 years in development of a same version? Before was the Quake 2 build ( 1997-98 ) and final ( 2007-11 ).
Great video... also I hope you can make more videos reviewing homebrews... that psp homwbrew video was amazing
I've been thinking of an original Xbox homebrew video.
@@FrameRater that sounds awesome... One day, you reviewing romhacks/improvements of your favorite childhood games might be a good idea, down the line, as well. Or maybe BAD GAMES you covered before that is immensely improved by a romhack? Just a thought :)
That reply from George makes him come across as a manchild. I don't want to defend game CEOs; however, all the guy was saying that they trust George and his team to make something presentable to get ready for release.
My theory is that George was using the lack of time restriction to experiment like DNF was a pet project and got angry when a deadline was even hinted at.
I think DNF would have come out much sooner if the publishers pestered George persistently instead of dropping when nearing being finished because he saw something shiny.
This series was awesome. Are you done done or will we get another one? I feel like you still need to cover the remaining drama until the final release. I remember when it was officially canceled... then officially resumed.
I think I'll finish it someday, but for now I feel burnt out.
@@FrameRater That's ok. Take care.
DN3D was never a tech fest compared to quake, just making a damn good fun game which doesnt look that outdated at all, and make the difference with details and game design. Then why they went to tech fest shit is beyond me. Just release quake engined dnf first, then quake 2 engined sequel and all could have been very fine
Thank you and the team for all the research done on this project. Being a perfectionist myself I do honestly feel bad for the team. Sometimes you just have to ship something out and learn from it. They could have made 3 games in that timespan lol.
One of greatest games ever made ( resident evil 4) came out in 2005! What was the development team of Duke thinking!
iirc, Yahtzee from Zero Punctuation even tried to be a writer for DNF, but Broussard didn't like what he wrote.
I've played the leak of the old DN Forever and man, they got sooo close of having a good game, too bad they were too deep into the scope creep hole to finish what was already good enough of a Duke game.
It's ironic how George was either delusional or really believed in his work. He was clearly both, and the mentality about "never ship a game early" is good but it's usually about extending the polishing period of the game to improve UI, stability, rendering, and occasional little improvements to gameplay and graphics but it's not about overhauling levels, changing story and larger things like that :)
In fact, I think that Patreon's official funding of game developers like DragonSnow with his game Changed can now make George Broussard's development hell rules completely obsolete.
The funny thing is that George was insisting on making the best game ever by copying other games... Best games ever are built on innovation not imitation
Duke got done dirty big time. Would love to see Duke Nukem 5 done correctly to atone for all the sins of DNF.
Dat screenshot of Broussard shrugging his shoulders, doe.
circa 10:30: *S I R E N A B E A C H*
You should play Doritos crash course 2 with that 360 that’s customized. Please
Has Broussard commented on what came to be with DNF and admitted any fault?
Thank you for doing this series! I've always wanted someone to go this in depth with DNF's development.
omg ive been looking for that duke forever song for like 10 years! THANKS
It's so weird that I was literally born when this game was supposed to be released, in 2005.
I’m fully invested 👁👁