Why YOU Don't Understand RYDER'S BETRAYAL in GTA San Andreas
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- Опубликовано: 12 янв 2024
- only 1% of fans know this lore - Was RYDER actually GOOD in GTA San Andreas? Rockstar Games cut a lot of content from the game, including some beta missions that explain why Ryders Betrayal in Grand Theft Auto was so confusing, spoiler alert! He was always meant to betray you and here's why Ryder betrays CJ #gta
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One sign of Ryder's betrayal is in the mission House Party. A Grove Street member informs CJ, Sweet, and Ryder about the Ballas' impending attack. The latter says he's going to go get some back up, but never participates in the gunfight, because you won't see him at the end
Possibly one of the only subtle signs someone could say indicated something!
@@DrModGTAI think Ryder claiming himself to be too intelligent during his little rant was a good hint that he was gonna betray as wel as it shows his ego and how he was always thinking about himself.
Well, the gunfight could have been short so by the time Ryder came back it would have already been over
And also the fact that Ryder is never called out for leaving the gun fight which makes me think he was just crammed in the cutscene and then never added to the fight
He also tells CJ he doesn't know what is really going on in the mission Robbin Uncle Sam and when CJ asks him what that means Ryder changes topic
Everyone needs a homie like Caesar
100% he was a gc
Banging our sister? Nah man, I'm fine
Thats a real one
Or Wu Zi
What i love about Caesar is that the story tells you to not judge a guy by his race but by his actions. And its not in this insufferable woke style we got today. Just based early 2000s writing. 👌
Even as a 9 year old child, I remember how odd, forced and unnatural Ryder’s betrayal felt
Same in fact I remember growing up thinking I must’ve missed something big but because I was little then so thought I wasn’t paying attention during the game, then like in 2019 I saw a video of someone complaining that Ryder betraying us doesn’t make sense so I knew it wasn’t just me
Same, after I killed Ryder I was like “that’s it?” No cutscene nothing?
Lmaooo bro aint none of us should have been playing this at 9 years old.
Dude, I played way "worse" at 9yo.
I was about 17 when this came out.
@@thefinalkayakboss it was instrumental to our childhood bro 🙏🙏
Incredible how after almost 2 decades of release, we are still discussing elements of this game
You can see how hurt we all are still 🥲
love this game
Yeah bro I still play it 20 years later it's was the best gta I know with 4 and vice city story's but gta sa then gta 4 and then gta vcs Gta 5 is not even a favor off mine hate gta 5 and online I'm fare in online like 458 lvl but to be real only wasted ours of my life cause they got not same heart like back at gta sa all is just bulshitt put together and always never new just recycle content that's allways nothing is realy new and was already there in some gta so yeah still discussing the old good gta's cause we won't get some like that again!!!!!!!
This is kinda milking the cow already, we all know his betrayal was forced and looked shoehorned into the game, hell even 20 years ago we knew that Ryder was not intended to betray the gang
@@capoazzlack8252 no bs they dont make em like they used to lol. i've also been playing this game since release fr.
It just feels so incomplete when Ryder felt like such a real homie
Thats what betrayal feels like
@@TIRFemcel not really
@@olivercharles2930 that means you’re the snake in the group of friends
@@olivercharles2930Stfu know it all
Snake? SNAKE? SNAAAAAAAKKKEEEEEEEE!!??
I've always said in videos like this or discussions about Ryder, that he should have died in The Green Sabre mission during the shootout under highway with Ballas. It'd be better outcome for the whole story and Smoke's betrayal would feel harsher and ending would bring more satisfaction of the revenge
Definitely in my opinion this whould be way better than what we got
@@Raphails For Real.......
Imagine how emotional it could be especially because It’s when Ryder finally started to warm up and ready to forgive CJ.
Someone should mod the story like this with ai voice lines
But killing him on pier 69 is so fun. you can race him, but you can also shoot him in the water, or destroy the vehicles so he gets stranded 😅
I think that the only mistake was placing ryder on the green saber cutscene. Removing him would make the plot more convincing.
Damn, you're right. You really opened my eyes
I dunno, it would be less weird but still sudden to just see him in that mission with no real buildup.
I think they came up with his role in the mission kinda too late in development to rework his story that far in a more organic way because of budget or whatever so they put him in the green sabre cutscene to make the confrontation with Ryder later feel more climactic without redoing too much work.
It's sloppy, but making you sit on the reveal of his betrayal before meeting Ryder again does make his death a feel little more important like a milestone to the game's completion, and I'm guessing the Mendez boat ride switch was also done to make his demise feel more climactic, though personally I do like him dying first better.
I never knew that's why big smoke was in the house in the beginning. When I first played I assumed they was close like that and had keys to each other's houses or something like that. He was waiting to bat sweet to death. Damn, big smoke was scandalous
I don't actually think Smoke was there to kill Sweet. He probably was waiting at the home while the Ballas killed Sweet and possibly Ryder at the funeral. Then, if the Ballas came to finish him off to tie up any loose ends, he'd jump them. Hence why he says "You picked the wrong house."
He was probably just a plot devixw to introduce CJ back to the grove street.
@@Sh0tgunJust1ce i always thought smoke was there because he was living there when i was a kid but that makes no sense. Probably rockstar wanted big smoke to be the first character from the gang to introduce us, just to make his betrayal more of a thing in the end
I don't think Smoke was waiting in the Johnson house to beat Sweet to death. This is also a big GTA SA myth to me.
When you watch the introduction, he seems to be scared to send the Ballas do the dirty work for him. Therefore I can't imagine Smoke killing Sweet by himself with a baseball bat. Sweet doesn't even live in this house, and, as the gang leader he is probably armed and surrounded by his homies especially after the death of his mom. Also, as you can see the ballas try to kill Sweet again when he's at the cemetery.
In my opinion Smoke was just defending the house because Sweet asked him to do so. And this is also a good alibi so no one realizes that he's involved in Sweet's death.
@@ImEazyE probably that was the reason.
This is something that pisses me off to this day. Even during the introduction there was no signs of Ryder being involved he only knew what Smoke told him. All Ryder missions benefitted Grove Street as well. People also mistake Ryder being mean to CJ as hate. Not realizing Ryder only been upset and hurt CJ ran away from home. People seem to forget Ryder was CJ’s childhood friend. Rockstar forced Ryder into the “Green Sabre” mission cutscene, it made no sense. The whole shit with him hanging with T-Bone, Jizzy & Ballas made zero sense as well. Also MC Eiht, Ryder’s voice actor confirmed it was Rockstar who told him that’s all they wanted to do with his character.
Facts. People love to bring up that clip of Smoke propositioning Ryder but Ryder doesn’t agree or disagree he just says “you can’t kill me”. Imo the devs used that to back up whatever way they decided to take Ryder; being a traitor to the Grove or being a traitor to Smoke and secretly getting info on him for Sweet. Also I too found it strange how downplayed CJ and Ryder’s history is despite it being brought up and how lackluster Ryder’s death was given how close him and CJ were in comparison to Smoke, who was Sweet’s peer not CJ’s.
@@Yvanehtnioj2000
That clip is also from The Introduction, which came out after San Andreas did.
"You love givin' the homies a hard time."
It's not just that Ryder's "hurt," it's described by CJ as his trait. He tends to be hard on people. He retorts with: "Just tryin' to keep my soldiers alive." It's his way of managing the gang, making sure everyone stays in line and doesn't drag the rest of the Family into trouble.
While Ryder's missions benefited Grove Street, their real purpose could be to to strengthen his own position in the gang, which would have made it easier to betray Sweet&Co when time came.
He was always jealous of CJ. There was also hints about him being so full of himself. He did not like Sweet's leadership anymore as he's realizing he's "too intelligent" meaning he has high ego. Grove street was going down already, it was smoke who gave him the chance to be powerful
I think Rockstar just wasn't sure what to do with the character of Ryder after CJ left Los Santos, so they decided to shoe horn him into the betrayal storyline and kill him off with as little hassle as possible. It's a shame, it would have been good to see Ryder again upon CJ's return to LS and have him help (in his own way) bring down Big Smoke.
I could see an alternative that after GSF falls apart, Ryder just becomes a drug addict, similar to Big Bear, and you have to get him clean and back in GSF when you come back to Los Santos.
better one wouldve been him getting killed when we save sweet
That wasn't it, widely known MC Eiht (Ryder's VA) had a falling out or something with Rockstar and left GTA SA halfway so they killed the character off by putting him on CJ's crosshair, evidenced by the reused audio on the Pier mission.
@@cataclysm7256 lmao did u even watch the video?
@@Tommy-sr7hl lmao yes, do you believe the earth is flat if there's a video that says it but shows more evidence that says otherwise?
10:25 Not sure if you know this already, but the Introduction was released after the game.
Yeeeaahhh... not the smoking gun he thought it would be. Ryder's role as an antagonist in this game is unnatural no matter which way you put it. By the end It's like he never existed.
@@kiki88561 So true.
People always say Ryder left the grove “out of nowhere” or “for mo reason” when the police and smoke where in an international drug smuggling ring. Like Walter white levels of cash. That’s why Ryder left, for the unbelievable piles of cash. It’s not spelled out in the game, but is it unreasonable to believe an international drug ring in Los Angeles would be making massive piles of cash?
i always imagined ryder got converted by smoke behind the scenes during the early missions. it was clear he wasn't in on it in the beginning.
That was my theory. Ryder only became a traitor during the events of the games, but it wasn’t always the plan during development. But they already got his actor to do his line, and because he was a musician they decided it wasn’t worth getting him to redo it, so decided to Frankenstein what they had into the final product
I think that's a pretty fair headcanon and makes a lot more sense than him being in on it from the beginning.
In a unreleased cutscene. We saw big smoke and ryder talking behind sweets back. Both knew the ballas intended to asassinate sweet. The green saber was ballas plan. Smoke and ryder was hoping they succeed. But it hit carl mom instead by accident.
Its clear ryder is unhappy with the status quo and wanted a change of leadership. While ryder wasnt in on initial betrayal. He probably saw an opportunity later. Hes trying to weight in which sides to take as story progress rather than take sides immediately.
@@TheShocker650he was not insecure and jealous of him 😂 yall make anything up 😂
@@CaliJose209 Watch the intros of the missions Drive-By, and House Party.
Just a little bit of a reminder here: The GTA SA Introduction was made AFTER the game's development, not before it. Everything that happens in the introduction is based on the game's script after it was finished, and that script changed A LOT.
5:57
The train made the police car breackdance in the air 💀💀💀
HEY CJ, FOLLOW THAT DAMN TRAIN!
it cracks me up how the rotation is suddenly stopped just for the car to blow up
Lmfaooooooo
Og loc was more loyal than smoke
Jeffrey was still responsible for Mad Dogg’s downward spiral into drug addiction after the loss of his manager and almost killing himself until CJ caught him in a pick up truck.
MC Eiht quitting early was one of those GTA myths I actually believed up to this point. Crazy the things you learn. FR tho, I don't think Ryder should've betrayed Grove Street. Even if the original beta scenes were what Rockstar ran with, his betrayal still would've felt undercooked. I think that's why the myth persisted so long.
About House Party mission and this one being "First sign of Ryder betrayal"
Someone actually did logical POV of Ryder going around whole Grove street and gathering peoples, it would simply take him TOO much time to gather any peoples from outside and come back for massive shooting.
It was simply too short event for Ryder, CJ and rest became such good squad they were able to squash ballas without outside help when Ryder thought they would need outside back up.
The first hint of his betrayal was in Robbing Uncle Sam whe Ryder tells CJ "You don't know what is going on"
@@thestrong2401 Honestly, Ryder could have meant anything by that line.
@@thestrong2401 Lmao, That Has Nothing To Do With The Betrayal.....😂😂😂😂
@@kanethesevenfootmonster868 "whatever you say fool... You don't know what's going on"
"what that means?"
"We got the guns, you are no gangsta homie"
Notice how Ryder is quick to change the course of the discussion after CJ asks him what he meant with his previous sentence.
In the Mission "Pier 69", CJ and Cesar are only going to take down The Loco Syndicate in which they have to kill Mike Toreno, Jizzy (Already dead) and T-Bone. There isn't any sign show that they will kill Ryder there, maybe Rockstar just add him in this mission.
Ryder is mentioned multiple times by CJ in the mission Pier 69. The whole message in Jizzy's phone was about the Syndicate meeting with Ryder and the Ballas.
@@TheShocker650 they retake it again after MC Eight out from the project way long before the game was release (cmiiw)
@@Zackytroll The entire thing that he outed from the project is a big BS. Can you back up your claim with any evidence? The dude literally said in a response to a private message to someone that that's all they needed him to say.
Ive seen a handful of videos on this topic...but this makes the most sense, especially with the beta and voice clips.
I believe Ryder and Big Smoke talked in the car before coming back to pick up CJ and Sweet. He either convinced him, or blackmailed him
The reuniting the families mission.
Yeah, they both knew CJ would get out safe with Sweet. Their error was to underestimate CJ in the later part of the story.
That makes a lot of sense. He was loyal to Grove but eventually Smoke blackmailed him. His choice was either to die under the intersection in Green Sabre like Sweet and the other OGs were supposed to or run away and make some money. Grove Street was already gonna be dead after that mission.
Talking about a topic i like and a voice that doesn't make me want to put a power drill in my ear is a instant sub
They should of kept Ryder as a good guy fo Gstreet sure he was an asshole but not a Traitor IMO
Exactly.......
It’s not Ryder betraying Grove Street what upset me, it’s how it was handled in the story, he’s glossed over. And this is suppose to be CJs childhood friend?
They should have killed off the character under the Mulholland Intersection, that would have done him justice since they lost the voice actor.
OR they could have signed a different voice actor and just re-do the lines...
But one of the main flaws of Rockstar has always been that they are cheap a-holes
True, I Agree!!💯💯💯💯💯
I feel like ryders betrayal was meant to be a "happens later" type thing
like it seems they certainly did plan to have him be a betrayer, but I think maybe the original plan was for ryder to be legit to START with and then get convinced or pressed into betraying the gang later, and then rockstar changed the timeline to make it so rider and smoke were in deep from the start, which would explain why he was crammed into scenes that dont acknowledge him, but the beta still having the mission where you kill him
it would kinda explain why ryder talks about the green saber but still gets shut down
why he shoots at the ballas and everything
like maybe hes in the process of getting pressed into the betrayal but isnt about it yet
Great job stitching the cut beta lines and footage together to make your case. I think you're right (I watched the full intro movie myself back when the game was brand new so I was always suspicious of him on my first playthrough), but now the mystery remains as to why Rockstar wanted to bother to make the changes over what they originally had for the same Ryder outcome? Every MC Eiht interview bits I've seen suggested that he actually wanted to record more lines if he could.
It was all about money, the power. MC Eiht wanted to record more lines but Rockstar wasn't willing to put more money in his pocket. And then it all came out like this.
Maybe those missions are too rough? Just guesses though, I don't think we can really tell what's going on until someone actually involved in the production say more.
That's because Rockstar never intended to make Ryder an antagonist his voice actor & Rockstar had issues so he had to leave them that's why Ryder's death is treated as nothing & forgetable because they rushed it because they need to get rid of his character.
True but Ryders voice actor never had an issue with rockstar
Go watch 10:00
@@OptimalMario That Doesn't Prove Shit dude, The Script Still Doesn't Make ANY Sense!!!!!🤷♂🤷♂
I think Ryder was always supposed to be an antagonist but just like OG Loc he was only supposed to betray Grove street when the Ballas took over after the green sabre mission, because he became a crackhead, that's why CJ only mentions seeing Smoke during that mission. Carl would only find out about Ryder's betrayal during Photo Opportunity because up to the Green sabre mission he was actually loyal to the Groves. But I think Rockstar thought that the players would have wondered what had happened to Ryder during the missions in between the green sabre and photo opportunity, so they decided to include him in the green sabre cutscene just so even if he isn't acknowledged by Carl, the player would know Ryder was a traitor all along just like Smoke
@@kanethesevenfootmonster868it’s a 2004 video game.
Look at Ryder that snake hanging out with the Ballas like they was life long pals.
Lol😂
I always felt Ryder's betrayal came out of no where and kind of hurt, whereas Big Smoke was shady from the start when you went back and thought about it. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was a change they made later to wrap up his story.
Ryder is an og, rockstar have plans for him but because of their terrible pay to the va and va quitting. They have to salvage him which made his part doesn't make sense after the newer mission.
Sweet and Ryder's mission to CJ benefits the gang but Smoke's mission only benefits to himself and the tenpenny
MC eiht never quit. He literally still works with rockstar.
@@gbazo762 proof?
This isn’t true lol. Ryders voice actor never had a problem with rockstar about pay or anything.
man if only the definitive edition changed ryder from betraying grove street, and we got ai voice technology nowadays for god sakes, they can easily make voice lines now if they cant get mc eiht back
@@goproskiing_kid619 Real.......
I think it could've been done better, some things got rushed and mixed up in the final release when they were scrapping and re-adding things, but it always made sense to me that Ryder was a traitor. Big Smoke at least acted a friend right, Ryder never did, he was always out for himself. Good vid dude, keep it up
he was not out for himself and he was acting like a friend in his own just because he was not throwing compliments doesn't mean anything, maybe it's rare in modern times but back then all bros were rude and negative with each other but in the end of the day they were still bros that was part of friendship
Pier 69 doesnt even have new lines, its just spliced existing lines
I played this game 10 years ago, this has to be the most legendary game for people to still poke around
Ryder’s betrayal was never supposed to happen but changes was made during making of the game
something many has overlooked or never thought about is that Officer Hernandez could possibly have became an Ally to CJ. He took a bullet for CJ in mission High Noon.
Wow I just got back from the gym, what a treat
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it
If you haven't, you should check out the GTA San Andreas Rewrite in Fanfiction. It shows how Ryder staying on Grove's side could work. I would love to hear your thoughts about the rewrite.
@InevitableOption-ic2vx It's literally titled "GTA San Andreas Rewrite", dude. You could type it in Google and the first link that'll pop up would be the story in Fanfiction.
@InevitableOption-ic2vx Real, Me Too.......
Oh yeah, that's a good one right there.
What if Big Smoke blackmailed Ryder into betraying Grove Street Families?
Yes that what happened in the storyline dummy,did you play the game say
No need for that as Ryder was becoming a crackhead like Big Bear and he's realizing Grove is losing power and he deserves better
Ryder voice actor quited the project, he had a lot of musical productions going on. Main fact about the unnatural change of script.
Something that always gets overlooked is how Ryder was put directly in the line of fire of the Ballas in the drive-thru mission by sitting right next to CJ. So he has a reason to be pissed off with Big Smoke given the plan put his whole life on the line
So mf epic that alot of us still enjoy this gem 20 years later 😌🔥 I'm glad the gta classic trilogy got a proper visual overhaul on mobile, sucha breeze to play fasho
The police car got hit by the train and flipped into the air and you shot it. Sick
For me, I always remembered after the Home Invasion mission, CJ told Ryder "One day you'll wish you never pissed me off." And I felt like this was foreshadowing a future fallout so I wasn't surprised it happened. Plus Ryder looked like Eazy-E so I always thought he was the bad guy cause I grew up on Dr Dre and Ice Cube.
Don't think this busts anything, nothing here is conclusive. It was always assumed the dialogue for CJ concerning Ryder was created after MC Eiht left the project. Swapping Ryder and T-Bone's deaths in the final game was probably done because there was more of a connection to Ryder's character than T-Bone;s. As for the Introduction cutscene between Ryder and Smoke, I don't think that's enough evidence to disprove the strange details surrounding how Ryder was handled.
my head canon is that ryder was initially on our side and loyal, but sometime during our first rise to power (probably after the mission where we rob the train for tenpenny) big smoke brings him in, and it just becomes about kicking CJ and Sweet out
That line in the opening ("Bullets cant stop me") would be better set up for rider to be killed on the railling than in the boat
6:28 What song is that?
Awesome video, by the way. Ryder ain't no buster.
There is a Catalyst mission too, where Tenpenny and Pulaski arrived and to his house and tell them about the train.
You should do a video of mary beth maybell and the rose radio station she tells hidden Stories of her life and multiple husbands and what happens to them
where do you get the beta missions and content from?
This is a real interesting video and you make solid points. I still wish Ryder would have stuck with CJ though. He just seemed so entertaining to me.
there are no points, saying that "this was changed" only means that one thing planned during production was changed, but his betrayal was still very obivously forced and added later on production, then changed again to try and make it have more sense, that's all really
4:50 I thought that meant something like were taking out one of thier ogs, with the aid of ten penny a cop, who's trying to get rid of every gang leader who won't sell his drugs.
I love your videos
Until we get our hands on the older beta versions(the Orange Groove version) of SA,this will always remain a mystery. God i hate NDA that goes on for decades, the devs should have the right to openly talk about the beta builds to the fans. The rushed way Ryder's death is handled just makes it come off as weird because Smoke's death had such a much more impactful death scene. Also, does anyone else find it weird that CJ doesn't kill OGLoc even though he betrayed the GSF??
Video idea:you can rank all gta villains
Been replaying San Andreas while watching this vids
That's awesome!!
What I actually believe is that there was suppose to be more missions where Smoke turns Ryder over , there must have been problems with the missions and it would glitch so they were removed or there wasnt enough time to put the extra ones where we see Ryder betraying Goove Street.
It makes much better sense then Rockstar just making Ryder betray out of nowhere.
I love your vids
Thank you
We need mod that replace Ryder model near green sabre garage with some ballas and change back sound where CJ blames Ryder when doing photos. This will make more sense and fix story.
Something I only realized now is that Smoke moved out of Grove thanks to getting money from his aunt, but in another mission (The Running Man?) he refers to marijuana as his cousin. So his "aunt" might also be the big man's euphemism for getting money from drug trade.
I appreciate this video a lot.
So you're saying two things could be true?
1. MC Eiht did quit during production
2. Ryder was always going to betray the Grove anyway
MC eith never quit in production,there is even his music in Gta 5 and in twitter he said that he left after Rockstar told him that his voice work was already done
Mc Eight claims he didn't leave BUT we don't know for sure, I don't see why he would lie about that detail. However, it appears Ryder was always intended to betray Grove Street and because Rockstar revealed him as a traitor earlier than planned it made the reveal seem odd without CJ mentioning Ryders name until later into the games plot. However, we are not 100% certain as MC Eight could easily have just said that or been difficult to work with and Rockstar have never commented on the matter. However, MC Eight did record the soundtrack for GTA 5 so it appears they are on good terms.
So the real reason is the writers fucked up. Kinda funny
@@DrModGTA Ryder Was NOT Supossed To Betrayel CJ, His Voice Actor 100% Had Problems With Rockstar.......
@@kanethesevenfootmonster868proof?
i read somewhere that it was all because rhyderd voice actor left without finishing his lines, which is why they had to change his story and recycle his lines
Also no one ever mentions in the mission "Catalyst" Ryder is CLEARLY cooking drugs for Tenpenny.
@InevitableOption-ic2vx I see your point. But the question still is why is Tenpenny there in the first place?🤔 CRASH never visits Sweet for any reason. Ryder seems to be the weak link as Sweet is firmly against drugs (selling or using). It kinda makes sense that Ryder would betray since he's already got one foot in the drug game.
Ryder was just added as a antagonist after the story was done cuz mc eight got knocked and they couldn't wait for him same thing happened with lamar and Franklin
I read somewhere(dont remember it was YEARS ago when i read this) that ryder was supposed to be alive through the whole game and he was double crossing smoke because he was planned to be involved in the final chase with tenpenny and there were some lines mentioning ryder helping sweet and cj that seem to point to this but i dont know how true it is still wouldve been cool to see other than just writing ryder off like that
During mission 2, Sweet and Kendal, if you manage to flip over the Balla's drive by car; which is damn near impossible, it explodes, and an invincible enemy comes out of the car with max muscle, and martial arts moves unlocked.
Even if MC Eiht said that Rockstar wanted no more voice acting in San Andreas from him, the story still not make sense in this way. I had like 15 playthroughs from this game and even you said in the video that this don't make sense. Why would Ryder betray the Familes? And my biggest quesion is...why would Ryder die like that? No death Cutscene , no final words and no mention of him after the Yay Ka Boom Boom intro cutscene. Ceaser lied to CJ about Ryder wanted to bang Kendl. Kendl would tell about this to Sweet as well and Sweet would kick Ryder's ass or worst. Rocktar made Ryder dirty, because they don't know what to do with him after the Green Sabre mission or other unknow reason which we don't know about. I think Ryder should have died in the Green Sabre mission like a Hero, or he should have a bigger role in the story as CJ's close friend along with Ceser. Or if we want to stick to Ryder being a traitor, a Death Cutscene and some explaination would been good. For exemple after CJ shot Ryder, Ryder would have told CJ, that Smoke blackmailed him and forced him to work for him. Just like what Smoke did with the other grove street members. CJ would have felt guilty by killing Ryder and Ryder would die to his shot wounds in CJ's arms. This would gave CJ more hate towards Smoke and more motivation to hunt him down and destroy his crack emprie. We have the beta dialogues and most likely CJ would find out Ryder's betrayal in the Photo Opportunity as you said. But this don't mean that they not changed Photo Opportunity before the beta version of the mission which we know about. Most of the times there is a alpha version, the beta version (which is going to change over time) and in the end the final version. The orignal script/story of San Andreas would been different for sure. I think the correct way to describe this, is Ryder is a traitor in final game and in the end of the development Rockstar already decided that. But originally Ryder was not meant to be a traitor. Most of things which are indicate Ryder's betrayal could been easilly added to game after they decided that Ryder is going to be a traitor. For exemple the "You don't know what's going on!" line. The Introduction was made after the game was ready.
2:12 "We have to chase the BOWLAS" 😂😂😂😂
I still don't understand why Ryder appears in the scene with the green sabre. They added him in later, which is a bit of extra added work, to create a weird plothole?
It feels like without him in that scene, CJ's reaction in both that cutscene and the cutscene in the later mission where he noticed Ryders betrayal would make more sense.
Am I missing something? I still don't get why they decided to add him in that cutscene last minute.
I think the model in the green Sabre mission that ended up as Ryder was meant to be the 3rd model of the ballas with the denim jacket.
SA introduction was made after the game was released or should I say after Ryder's voice actor left. I'm sure they used some of his old recorded generic voices in other versions of the game and added it into the introduction to make him look he was always a traitor with Big Smoke (Most of people think Ryder has new voices in the introduction but no).
Ryder was never supposed to betray grove street, they rewritted his storyline at the last second.
I think Rockstar changed their mind about Ryder during development and his betrayal was not always meant to happen. It just doesn't fit the same way it does with Smoke.
Yea, Smoke has hints pointing this out, and after finding out the betrayal, it's mentioned several times by CJ. Ryder, it's sorta like when he's not on screen (and even when he is some times), he doesn't exist or isn't part of the betrayal.
im sad we didn t get cutscene where ryder and cj talked afret mission where we killed him...
They realised ryder would be a bigger plot twist than big smoke because ppl would be emotionally affected more and it did cuz ryder was like the real G u look up 2
If they ever remake this game. I want ryder to be playable after the green sabre mission where him and cj are arrsted and taken to the woods. With that we get to hear more about their past and the friendship healing as the game continues.
Now watching this after playing the game when it released his betrayal seemed like it wasn't suppose to really happen like it did....
for me personally, the most annoyed character was Sweet.. even in the end he doubts CJ as him doing anything good..
like he blames CJ after literally saving the whole neighborhood...
i think Smoke managed to Betray them bcuz of Smoke's huge Ego and Pride
Imagine videos like this back then
If they really had to kill him off, they could have at least gave him a heroic death in The Green Sabre, where he dies in the shootout between the Families and the Ballas.
The clear give was as you said his missions helped the grove helped the family where as Big smokes missions are only good for him but then again Ryder was clearly threatened by Smoke "either way do this or i do you in"
Well did we ever actually see him using those guns to help the grove street families or was he only strenghening specific homies in the gang who were only loyal to Smoke?
@@debilman9065 you mean Ryder? After all Ryder missions are done, Grove Street Famillies gang members in freeroam starts to spawn with Tec-9 as well instead of just 9mm or hands/bottles/cigars. So yeah, we do see him using those guns to help gsf
You need to do a debate with the other youtuber that covered 5 early signs of big smokes betrayal.
I always found that one break in mission with Ryder funny - the failure I mean - since it seems more like a comedy routine you'd see in movies. A guy breaks in, another waits as the driver, the mission fails, and the driver just drives off. It's a dickish thing to do, but it is still funny.
Caesar is my alltime favorite homie of the whole series. Such an awesomely written good guy imo
One thing to note is that Ryder is the one to point the Ballas' car passing by while Big Smoke stays silent and alerting everyone of the drive by.
Ryder ruined the drive by in some way, so he was still with GSF at some point
Do the Ryder mission benefit Groove Street though? You steal the weapons from all those places, but they never get to Groove Street, like in Home Invasion, where "LB" takes the weapons, but they are never used by Groove members, and the Ballas are really well equipped at the end of the game, so were you just stealing weapons for Smokes guards at his crack house?
Actually, pay attention after the RUS mission. The GSF members now carry tech 9s and are much more useful in gang wars.
Let's all appreciate how much effort he puts in his videos 😊
This video was a replay of another check his channel
@@octane5293 a reupload?
Ye
NPC Ahh comment
@@moved8416 im not an ncp bruh
Do u know why
Bc i know the guy that do ryders voice actor went to prison in those days ( when gta wasn't made it was veta or alpha idk )
And a fact u can make the green saber
The song in the beginning of the video,what is the name?
also I noticed that if your around Big Smoke the Ballers don't even try to attack CJ seen this in actual game play always made me question Big Smokes Loyalty to Grove Street
big smoke was waiting for sweet to kill him?! wtf this changes a decent lil chunk of things for me and i been playing this game for 10 years
Bro it's just amazing that go off the story😂
And some of Ryder missions was actually helping out Grove Street , for example robbing Uncle Sam
After countless play throughs, I still find that the final confrontation so underwhelming at the end of Pier 69.. I feel it should've been a mission on it's own.
5:56 that was so cool
Ill be honest gta san andreas is an absolute classic and its probably the biggest game of my childhood, but it really lost steam toward the end
I feel like they changed his character mid development cause in the beginning of the game he acts normal
Why wouldn't Ryder shoot at people shooting at him? Doesn't matter who he's working for in that moment, the fact that Smoke doesn't shoot is because he's a dick. I'm so confused at the people in the comments saying his betrayal felt forced... like, he was a lazy abrasive jerk the whole time...
it's not that confusing i think people just don't like to admit he's a traitor because they liked his character so much