Thank you everyone for the support on this video. It means alot to me. I didn't expect this video to blow up this much and I am very grateful to everyone for their support. If you guys enjoyed my big smoke video then please check out my San Andreas playlist. I played through the whole game recently and I also did some more San Andreas top 5s. ruclips.net/p/PLwXLuIQsiAxzy5KFMZOlaeUDt1m6w30mp
You did an excellent job man. Deserves recognition. probably’ make it a series? break down the social life of GTA characters and their ties to the protagonist. All and all, excellent. 🔥👌🏽
Also wanted to point out that if you actually think about what he says, he literally gives you hints when he's supposedly talking nonsense. The quote "If you can eat your food while everyone else is losing their's and blaming you, you straight, homie." Is him basically saying that he's fine with betraying his friends if it means he's able to survive. Then there's the other quote: "I'm talking about the choices all men face, brother. Sometimes, they seem real, but other times there's no choice at all." This probably means he chose to side with the drug dealers thinking it'll make grove Street rich, but got too far into it and became a pawn to tenpenny and could not make his own choices anymore. It might explain why his missions make no sense and seem to benefit no one. It was probably tenpenny telling him to do these things and CJ just happened to be along for the ride.
CJ came out of the whole gangster life all by himself, giving his family a better life outside of The Santos, CJ is way smarter than any credit he gets... Now, Sweet on the other side? Sweet is a terrible leader and by the end of the game he is putting CJ down.
I kind of assumed that Big Smoke, playong up his "fat friendly guy" persona, was trying to keep the mood light while also keeping CJ and Sweet from thinking on it together too much (so they couldn't figure anything out)
@Leo Man I thought at first he was that one guy you get that is extremely nice, acceptable but says stupid things that does not make sense and acts dumb. It wad only until my 2nd playthrough I realized he literally changed the subject each time and acted stupid to remain anonymous. Smoke was pretty smart not gonna lie but he is a sneaky prick too.
@@w.c2255 "Pretty smart" is an understatement. By the end, that Ahole was sitting in a mansion playing video games, being guarded by an army of ballas!
@@adityashandilya2789 Ya he did. Out of all Gta characters Smoke was really written good. He wasn't really an obvious villian in game as literally nothing connected him to being a traitor. His missions might of been a little sus but not to the point I suspected him as a traitor. Lol but you are right " Smart in an understatement" man played us the whole time.
Same here! I remember gta 4’s story well as I was in like middle school but I was really young when I best gta sa….but I did beat it! Truly an amazing story especially looking back as an adult!
I was in 4th grade and after struggling w/ wrong side of the tracks and hearing Smokes line that would get memed yrs later. I developed a burning hatred for Smoke so when I finally got to Green Sabre. I was more hurt that Ryder betrays you b/c I loved Ryder and how he constantly nagged CJ which made me laugh and I remember when I got to pier 69 and kill Ryder appeared on my screen. I couldn’t do it and I let him escape during the boat chase but then after I failed. I was like I gotta kill him so I did and I felt like shit after but when I got to end of the line (also didn’t mention I got stuck on flight school for almost 2 yrs b/c I had moved house and my SA and memory card got lost during the move so I moved on to other games and then I found my SA two yrs later finally passed flight school and then breezed through the game.) but when I got to end of the line and had to kill Smoke. I did not hesitate and after he died. I was like yay he’s dead then I went on to kill ten penny and finished the game after a 2 yr hiatus. Now I have beaten SA probably about 30+ times (have it on xbox 360, ps2 and mobile) and this game will always be a classic to me.
@@pyr1412 I heard some rumors that before the game was released, Rockstar had planned that Ryder would not betray CJ and he would also help CJ kill Big Smoke at the end of the story. But Rockstar and Ryder’s Voice Actor have some conflicts, and left the company after that so Rockstar had to change the storyline.
I was 13 years old and barely spoke english when I first played San Andreas and even back then Big Smokes house being out of Grove Street was suspicious to me.
@@sky_5 I did that too but I knew what they said and I just didn't want to waste time so I skipped all of them but my cousin said don't do that because *it reveals the story*
not just that he also haired the Russian to assassinati cj and I can imagine what he sayd OK cj s coming just like we plan your going to kill him but the Russian failed and big smoke s plan backfird at him so the Russian start shooting on both on cj and big smoke
@bwontheblocc you would be correct, Ryder's Va was not being paid what he was owed, so he left during development, which got the story changed due to rockstar bs.
@@Thiccazroach no it was confirmed Ryder was never a traitor rs didn't pay his voice actor so he left. Which is why Ryder had the same repetitive dialogue in the last few missions and appearances.
All of Ryders missions were to help and improve the Grove and their influence. Big Smokes missions were only benefitting him and the Ballas. They did Ryder dirty and I’m still mad...
Ryder's voice actor left halfway through the game so rockstar probably panicked and made some questionable decisions but I Don't just blame them for how Ryder ended up
Fr. Ryder seemed to be the most loyal member he even told smoke in that burger mission that if he’ll kill him if he doesn’t see him shooting back at the ballas. Ryder being a traitor is very out of character
Bullshit. Ryder' missions helping the hood is not a good argument for him not being a traitor. His missions were all about collecting guns and ammo. That would've been useful either way because the gang ended up working for Smoke eventually. Ryder's hatred for CJ, his PCP addiction, him running away in house party are all indications that he was a traitor.
Another subtle hint of Smoke’s betrayal is the default radio station in his car. The default radio station in his car is Bounce FM, which is the same default station of a car driven by the Ballas. However, the default radio station for GSF including Sweet’s and Ryder’s car is Radio Los Santos. Edit: My mistake. Sometimes the default radio station in Sweet’s car is Radio Los Santos and sometimes it’s Bounce FM. Generally cars around Grove Street play Radio Los Santos while cars around Ballas territories play Bounce FM.
No Ryder wasn’t actually with the ballas early big smoke threatened ryder and ryder was scared and he cared more about his life than his homies Ryder betrayed grove street later than big smoke
@@tendobaby.2003 yeah cause Ryder was shooting the ballas in the mission drive thru and his missions were meant to help the grove but later on he betrayed cause tenpenny showed up in his house too
Wasn't Smoke gonna hit Sweet with the bat at the beginning, but then realized it was CJ. Maybe he was plotting on hitting Sweet himself but CJ ruined the moment.
@@ryan5752 No. He was waiting for sweet to come back but it was CJ also because he saw that CJ had a chair so he could defend himself he knew he had no choice but to play along. Also he got pissed so he broke his mom's Picture.
there a theory that ceasar was with smoke and crash to how he know everything come now he got scared bc he knew cj was a train killer so he use Cj to kill all his opps so he can be on the top how did ceasar know about crash n the green sabre, he got angry because they tried smash kendl, ryder betray em bc he couldnt get kendl so why u think he always slick side say terrible ish to cj read the lines of the streets ceasar knew wat get cj tick off that y he said alot of stuff but didnt nothing he got cj to do it bc he was setting him up n that why he send cj to his crazy cousin the mission impossible thar could got cj killed then he knew where smoke n them meeting are at everytime come on now
My theory was that Smoke was expecting Sweet to enter his mother's home after the funeral then he was going to use his bat to finish Sweet off but CJ entered her house before so Smoke missed his chance to kill Sweet & decide to take CJ to the funeral
@@uncleruckus714 i dunno, that would raise a lot of questions. Smoke isn't at the funeral, yet comes running out of Sweet's mom's house right after Sweet is murdered. I feel like that would be too risky
@@dominikblack8943 yeah, but without CJ, the only person living in Grove Street is Ryder (a traitor), so there's not much problem into his escape. Actually, Sweet was supossed to die in the drive by while leaving the cemetery, since BS had no courage to do the job himself
There is one obvious metaphor about big smoke's betray. When CJ came home for the first time, Big Smoke thought CJ was a invader so he tried to hit him with a bat. After knowing he was CJ, Big Smoke threw the bat away and gave him a hug. THAT BAT JUST HIT AND CRACK THE PHOTO OF CJ'S MOM! R star even gave a close-up shot, which strongly suggest who murdered CJ's mom
One of my favorite hints of Big Smoke's betrayal is why is Big Smoke in Johnson's house in the first place. He was planning to kill Sweet when he gets back from the funeral but the moment he saw CJ, he has to act friendly to him because he was not expecting CJ to come back.
Through my 3rd playthrough actaully I also found it weird why he was in the house and thought he was probably planning something or stealing something from the house. However now that I saw this video and think about the intro of game it made me realize that Smoke did want to kill Sweet and Tenpenny helped him plan it. Remember the arrest at the beginning when Tenpenny arrested CJ and dropped him off at the Ballas gang? Tenpenny knew CJ was gonna head for that area and waited for CJ, so when they arrested him Tenpenny notified Big Smoke CJ is in the other gang and that he can kill Sweet but unfortunately CJ got there faster. A lot of people say Smoke saw the arrest through the back house window as part of plan but I also think Tenpenny notified him. Either way Smoke played us all dirty and its this little things that make us realize how good this game was written
He actually recognized CJ, and he wanted to attack him, but when CJ grabbed the chair, Smoke backed off, because CJ would've injured smoke with the chair if Smoke drew any closer.
DanX, BS reacted with words "You've picked the wrong house". Either he didn't recognize CJ and expected burglars for some reason, or presence of BS was suspicious indeed, so he did put a show for CJ with no intention of killing him
C.R.A.S.H. met up with Mr. BS before the plane landed. Cops pulled over the taxi, and the fatso in his house within the same day? Aw shit. Here we go again.
20:35 "The second time your re-play it you start to notice a lot of these things" Me in 4th playthrough: Ohh so that's why CJ got back to LS.. His moms got killed!
Big smokes motive wasn't to betray the hood but to remove Sweet out of the picture. Big Smoke was waiting at the house for Sweet to return after the funeral to off him. But to his surprise, CJ was the one to walk through the door.
Big Smoke is kinda like Dimitri from GTA 4. 'cause Dimitri betrayed Niko after Niko killed Faustin and then later Dimitri betrayed and killed Jimmy Pegorino(In the deal ending). Big Smoke similarly betrayed cj because like he said he got caught up in the money and the power he could've had.
There's a video that talks about Smoke being in there mom's house. Ultimately when it's broken down the most likely reason was that he heard CJ was in town and maybe offered to wait for him there and give CJ a ride to a funeral to meet up with everyone else.
First he tried to convince Sweet to bring GSF into the dope business. When that failed he decided to betray Sweet, and you can see by his conversations with CJ that he was fishing to know where Cj’s heart was.
It would have taken more effort, but they could have just gotten a new voice actor. Yeah I know the model is supposed to look a little like the voice actor, but they could have changed that too. Then they could have kept their intentions for him.
Yeah making him a traitor put quite a flaw in the story . He didn't even go down in an epic way 😭😭. i love ryder, the best side character i could ever ask for
Couldnt agree more! Infact its kinda obvious with how they just reuse regular dialog for his final words. I made a Lore Video on Both Ryder and Smoke discussing their true potential as characters. You should check it out and let me know what you think!
This is why I think SA is one of the best stories ever written in a game. Even in 2021 we still have people making theories, giving evidence and discussing it.
@@MythicalExplains Up to them. Sure it's not perfect and you can argue there are other games (like VC or a different game, Metal Gear Solid imo) but I don't see them getting as much attention as SA. Just story recaps or someone explaining the plot/lore.
I like how their names fit their characters: Sweet is in fact sweet, a man of moral principles who cares about his family, Smoke is shady and hard to understand, while Ryder is the typical weak guy who rides the wagon of whoever tries to manipulate him. Other examples: B-Dup trying to “beat up” his rivals by leading them into drug addiction, Big Bear as an innocent circus bear who ultimately revolts against his tamer, and so on.
Big Smoke is also shown to hint at his betrayal through his weird metaphors, he even kinda threatens Ryder in Introduction using metaphors and forcing him to join him.
I'm pretty sure Ryder wasn't supposed to be an antagonist but because of the conflict between Rockstar and the Ryder's voice actor they couldn't continue the story.
I remember watching a video where it was about how Ryder's character should have ended and it would have been when sweet got shot Ryder would have died there
@@hakaishinkaioshintaverz4843 they should've used tht instead for Ryder rather than having him turn on CJ too. That makes more sense with his character considering how Die Hard Ryder is for the Family.
@@FreshPrincex4 from what I heard Ryder was planned to be the Main characther for spin of game called GTA San Andreas Story, and it will be similiar to Vice City Stories and Liberty City Stories (released on PSP and takes places before the main game). But due to PSP technical limitation and Ryder VA conflict the game was scrapped
A little foreshadowing I noticed, when CJ first sees Big Smoke after 5 years in the mission “Big Smoke”, when he realizes it’s CJ, he throws aside his bat onto the picture of CJ’s mom, cracking the glass, hinting at his involvement.
Along with the line “ you pick the wrong house fool “ indicating he was there to meet and tie up the loose end of the balla who shot CJs house instead of Sweets
One example of big smoke being too friendly is how he never gets mad at cj for crashing the car. Notice how sweet and Ryder make comments about cj’s driving, but big smoke doesn’t say anything
I wish that Ryder wasn’t a traitor. He was so wild and reckless and his missions were a lot of fun. It would have been fun to have a mentally unstable psycho as a “good guy”
I think the reason that none of Big Smoke's missions helped the Grove is because they were meant to get CJ killed. He didn't pay CJ much mind when he first came home but once CJ started getting the Grove together, he started to pose a threat. Every mission Big Smoke took CJ on was something random and arbitrary where smoke instigated the situation to the point of it being deadly. He could always blame CJ's death on the vagos or Russians. And we can see at the end of the game that sweet was eventually very defeated and broken and almost gave in to doing drugs himself. I think if he lost CJ early on so soon after losing his mother, he would have hit rock bottom much sooner, allowing smoke to take over without having to kill him.
He had big plans, Thats for sure! But I think he tried to win over CJs trust but noticed that it wouldnt work and he might become a threat later so he bided his time. A real schemer and mastermind if you ask me. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
Imo its that big smoke was forced to be a crack dealer by the police you have to remember these games are based after reagen, and a lot of black people were addicted to crack by the goverment and mass incarcerated to pretty much work as slaves to private business, mass incarceration was and still is a pretty big thing
@@Benjaminc11 I think this is closer to being true. My take is that smoke was always into dealing drugs generally (like that time he gets you to pick up weed for him), and then the police offered to help him grow his empire if he took out the rest of the Grove Street OGs and started dealing crack. Since they knew Sweet, CJ and Ryder (before he was written in as a villain) wouldn't stand for it and needed to be taken out of the picture, but Smoke was a weak link because of his love of notoriety and money. So they convinced him to turn on the rest, saying he was being held back, then after the big bust where GS gets mostly killed or flushed out of town, Smoke is free to deal all the crack and make all the money in the world.
That was intended for replay value. Back then when these types of twists happened they left subtle nods to it not for new players to explore, but for second, third, forth runs for them to discover the hints and revisit the twist differently. This is also how one of the big OG FFVII twists is hidden. FFX has some too, but only one is actually hidden.
Had to make sure someone said it. The biggest giveaway is CJ himself. Like you said it’s like he knew but ain’t wanna believe it because he’s supposed to be “family”.
I think its cuz they ain’t really have a plan for CJ coming back and being thrown into the thick of it. It’s like planning a surprise for someone and everything is in place and then an old friend comes back to town and so they have nothing but questions. I don’t think the game would’ve been as long if the Johnson brothers talked about how shifty Big Smoke was.
Most of ryders missions actually benefit grove street, I saw a long time ago that there was a lot of evidence that ryder was never meant to betray cj, they just added it in last minute
Very well put! Couldnt agree more! Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
Nope Ryder was supposed to die in a shootout with the cops. The voice actor quit and they had to kill Ryder off.... which is why when he died, CJ doesn’t mention him, he only mentions smoke.....
@@ch33zybreadtrellie4 it make sense . The only thing he said to CJ before he was killed was "im a f'kg genius ". No more dialogue. It sounded like one of his early phrases from the game when you bump into him
This game deserves a prequel. Back with the whole together. Sweet mentions a bunch of memebers who are already buried when they are in the graveyard, they could all be characters. A prequel could show how the gang started, how CJ's mom was, what exactly drove CJ away and how Big Smoke started drifting away from the gang.
@@luviathan9706 They were going to make a san andreas stories basically explaining everything that happened but instead they made a 15 minute video called "the introduction" to explain everything for us... not sure why they scrapped it.
Another thing to note is once you get to San Fierro and Tenpenny and Pulaski start becoming more abusive and menacing towards CJ and his friends, the CRASH theme doesn't play anymore.
There are two videos on RUclips which explain this, and they also explain how Ryder wasn't supposed to betray Carl. Smoke was threatened by Tenpenny to collaborate with them since the beginning of the game, to convince Sweet to get in the drug business or kill him, but Smoke didn't want to kill his friend, so he tried first to convince Sweet to collaborate with him on the drug business, and Sweet refused. Then, when Smoke didn't have a choice, he hired two ballas in the green sabre and they shot at Sweet's house, while thinking they killed Sweet, they actually killed his mom. The creators of the game wanted to make the Ryder the good guy, who doesn't betray CJ, but it seems the actor who voiced Ryder was in a conflict with the creators and he left before the game was finished, so they didn't know how to continue the story of Ryder. In the videos, it is assumed that Ryder was going to get killed by Smoke during the storyline, and then CJ would revenge his death. The fact that Ryder's home was in the same neighbourhood with CJ, while Smoke's home was in the ballas neighbourhood makes this theory more believable. In the green dabre mission, where CJ finds out that Smoke was working with Tenpenny, CJ mentions only Smoke's name, while Ryder is never mentioned, as if he is not there at all (both of them are there talking with Tenpenny and some ballas). From then until the mission where Ryder is killed, nobody mentions Ryder's name, while in that mission, Ryder only repeats some phrases that he has spoken in the beginning of the game, he never responds to CJ while CJ is yelling at him, even when CJ kills him, there is no cutscene where they could talk to each other in Ryder's final moments, like with Smoke. Plus, when you play missions with Ryder, those missions have the purpose to serve you to improve, when you play missions with Smoke, those missions have the purpose to serve Smoke, Tenpenny and the ballas, while CJ never wins anything there.
"If you can eat your food while everybody losing theirs, you straight homie" so you see this dialouge may look like nonesense but when you read it after knowing what smoke did he was getting powerfull while the others losing theirs and he was straight
And don't forget the "People had to open their eyes and hearts" part in here smoke means they have to look at the situation from another angle, and then he says " I'm talking about the choices that man face, some times they seem real but there ain't no choice at all" in this dialouge he means some times you face with choices that you don't want to do but have to do.
@@a5tr3x53 as if he is taking blame off himself. You can tell Big Smoke had been loyal at some point and he is trying to give CJ a hint that none of this was personal or not all of his own making. Maybe he didn't want CJ to be a part of this mess. Tempenny was the one who kept going out of his way to hurt or kill CJ while Big Smoke seemed to still care about him.
@@laurocoman i think it's more he's trying to win cj over so that when he eventually finds out (smoke knew cj was too smart not too) he'd side with him considering cj's return had been causing major problems to his operations despite the few times cj helped out unknowingly.
Ryder wasn’t supposed to betray cj Ryders voice actor in real life was doing other things like movies and making his own album so he couldn’t record anymore lines. so rockstar just killed him off. Also if you pay close attention to Ryder last mission rockstar reuse the same lines that was already recorded.
@@khaleevafauzi9690 yeah but he said he was busy doing other things in his life which prevented him from recording more lines. I've also read before that he felt the character was too comical and thought it would hurt his image. Either way tho it sucks bc Ryders character seemed badly written with the way it ended. Its one of the very few complaints I have about the game
when I found out about that I wondered why they couldn't have just found someone new and rerecorded the lines, it was such a waste of a good character, it's a shame really
A detail that went unnoticed is that if you steal a car from the ballas the radio will be on bounce FM, in Big smoke's car the radio that is playing is also bounce FM
@@hititmanify I was playing and I noticed that gang members listen to specific radio stations, Groove street members listen to Los Santos FM and the ballas listen to bounce FM
Listen closely to Smoke's words after the Drive-Thru mission "If you can eat yo food while everybody's losing theirs you straight" Translation "If you can live yo life while everybody is losing theirs you straight"
i think its a parody of a famous quote. its "“If you can keep your head when all about you. Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too" by rudyard kipling
Also forgot to mention that the Ballas pulled up in a Voodoo so they wouldn't initially look like the Ballas common cars you see around most of Los Santos.
You're right! when he questions Big Smoke about things like moving out of the Grove and him hesitating when they got takeout, You can sense his suspicions growing. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
yeah; but he probably thought Sweet was some sort of informant or that he was making some (small-time) deals with the corrupt cops; he never thought his betrayal would be THAT big/crazy.
Another special mention is the license plate on Big Smoke's Glendale, we know he drove a blue Glendale with a white roof, if you look at the license plate, it reads A2TMFK, it's a acronym for "A two-timing MF'er", which is a reference for his betrayal.
It could also mean "a two ton mfer" which also works since he's fat and all. But it having a double meaning works since it's meant to throw you off since that's what Smoke is trying to do the entire time to avoid suspicion.
Smoke was in your house waiting for Sweet, while everyone was at the funeral. He was gonna kill Sweet with the bat. At the end of the scene he throws the bat on momz picture, breaking it. It tells u from the first mission that Smoke is a snake
Alot of people say this but there's a back-door in the kitchen. It's plausible that he saw someone he didn't initially recognise enter the house then stuck around back to catch the "theif" off guard. It's also possible he was intentionally left out of the funeral as he was second in command of Grove Street and so had to look over it while the main boss attended the funeral.
If he was expecting Sweet why would he scream "you picked the wrong house, fool!". I think he genuinely though it was a burglar otherwise it makes no sense for him to say that if he was planning for Sweet
@@TheDeathOmen literally no else is around to hear it. And why would he use a bat? Sweet would be way more likely to survive it than to use a gun. And it would be way more messy. There would be no way to convince anyone it was an accident if sweet were to survive because he's mostly likely have to take multiple swings
I think every "non sense" thing he said actually have a meaning. The stuff he says about choices might be a hint to CRASH forcing him to betray GS. Also, Tenpenny says fat fuck "finally" began seeing stuff their way in the introduction movie. He was greedy indeed but money alone will not be strong enough to make an underboss betray, i think. His dislike against Sweet maybe played a role too.
@@burakmuslu6392 I saw an in-depth video on smoke from another popular channel describing how smoke was sort of blackmailed by crash, so it makes even more sense with some of the poetry smoke read and about sometimes having no choices at all.
I find it really interesting the tone of voice that Big Smoke has after Ryder talks about who could have killed cj's mom, saying "yeah, well people like to talk don't they?" Almost as if Big Smoke is telling Ryder to drop the subject from all further conversations.
It makes alot of sense. He ran interference so that the planned second attempt hit had a better chance of happening. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
That WOULD make sense, but no body would wait for someone to do a drive by in a car they are literally sitting in. It would make sense if Big Smoke got out, but to wait for someone to shoot up the car you're sitting in is definitely questionable.
Very well put! Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
What's most interesting to me is the way Smoke treats CJ. He knew Carl was an outcast amongst his group, everyone else was with Sweet and looked down on Carl as someone who left them. Smoke thought if he killed Sweet Carl may have joined his side because of how much he treated him better than the rest of the group.
Another hint of Smoke's being a snake was when you got into his car, his preset radio station is 'Bounce FM', which is the favourite radio station of the Ballas as Grove Fam listens to Radio Los Santos.
3:39 I know this Comment is very late but Ryder was not meant to betray The grove street It was due to mishappenings Of the Voice actor (his name MC 8) or something Left the game at very early stage Leading rockstar to change their plot of their whole game. The Problem with the voice actors is the main reason why CJ wont appear in hd world Cuz Rockstar treat their voice actors like shit and Voiceactors in also sone cases are too greedy
While Big Smoke is mostly viewed as a meme character, he has a lot of depth to him when you look deeper into the story of the game. A fantastic character and a fantastic villain for a fantastic game.
@@specialagentbob6633 Cj was too stubborn actually. If cj was smart he would have picked up or at least suspected that smoke is a rat earlier in the story.
It just hit me that there are even subtle hints at his betrayal in his very name because the writers intended his name to actually be a literal play on words, it’s a deliberate pun on the phrase “smokescreen” which means to go to great lengths to conceal the truth from someone. So his hood name “Big Smoke” in this foreshadowing context is literally means “a big smokescreen” because that’s what he’s been doing to Carl and by extension the entire audience throughout the whole entire game!
nah, get on top of the train and getting those Vagos is a nice way... that is Pro. Now... flying car cheat and that is Hacker. Noobs just stay at the side of the train.
When smoke caught cj in that house he was actually waiting for sweet to try and get rid of him, since the drive by didn’t go as plan. His plan was to purposely mistaken him as an robber to say it was an accident but cj showed up unexpectedly...
I find it weird how Big Smoke was in CJ's house instead of being in CJ'S mother's funeral. What's more is that he seemed very scared or at least in a panic state where he brought his baseball bat.
I think he was just watching the house. And he didnt know that Cj was coming. Thats why he took that bat. If you lived in ghetto and somebody just walked in your house you would take some weapon to defend yourself.
All of Smoke's Metaphors aren't just random nor nonsense. He was actively giving the hints that he's ready to betray/sell them out. Notably giving warnings about it. *"The streets is cold, dog. Like it says in the book, we are blessed and cursed."* - blessed is on a high status in the hood, but cursed that he had to be the traitor for his own gains. That's why the streets are "cold", it's unfair. *"People have to open their eyes, and their hearts, CJ... I'm talking about the choices all men face, brother. Sometimes, they seem real, but other times there's no choice at all."* -Perfectly hinting that they don't understand that he's being blackmailed, and they aren't aware of it. "choices all men face, brother. Sometimes, they seem real, but other times there's no choice at all" is an elephant in the room that he had no other choice but to kill sweet, and take over, selling out the family, at first he tried to persuade them, with the quote aligning to the "they seem real". but when carl arrived and ruin everything for him, he had no other choice but to do the one thing he may regret. with the quote "but other times there's no choice at all". *"I admire you, Carl. You're a leader, a visionary. Remember me when you get to the top."* -He knows that even if sweet got killed, he will take over, but since carl got back to the picture, he knows that carl WILL someday challenge his authority over the hood. He is aware of CJ's capability and doesn't underestimate him unlike sweet, tenpenny, pulaski, and ryder. That's why when CJ enters his room at the last mission, he says that. "I was wondering when you'd show up". He knows carl is coming for him, and he will make the most of his last moments before fighting his old dog. This is my theory, this is just to clarify that his metaphors weren't crappy nonsense words, it meant something deep and be a hidden clue in a glass.
When smoke says "if you can eat your food, while everyone is losing theirs, and blaming you, you straight homie", he's literally giving you his justification on betraying Grove. If you can prosper and gain, aka eat, while everyone is losing their money and hood and prosperity, and blaming you (for betrayal).
Did you notice at the end of the game where Smoke and CJ met where Smoke was about to get killed he was wearing a bulletproof vest clarifying more about what you said about the "I was wondering when you would show up" comment?
@@Emulysse Yeah he was, but when he realised it wasn’t Sweet he acted like the house was his and because CJ had been gone for soo long it took him time to recognise him
I always thought Smoke saw someone enter the house, took the back door and charged. I mean why else would he have said "You picked the wrong house fool"? But maybe he was already in there for some reason idk.
@@Underworlder5 thank you I literally keep trying to tell people this they rip on me and say its the best gta with the best story. Best gameplay no doubt. But it does go all over lol. You have all the hood stuff then you just get dumped off in the country helping conspiracy nuts and playing with remote control choppers 😂. Sweet calls a few times and CJ remembers he was trying to make money for his bail.
@@lethalassassin1754 my biggest issue is how inconsistent CJ is. one time he is a good man doing bad things to support his family, another time he buries a foreman alive because some construction workers insulted his sister. the toreno missions are quite fun, but also completely break the story. CJ works for one of the most powerful men in the country and singlehandedly stole a top secret prototype from a military base, yet is still intimidated by two street cops (sure, sweet is in jail and can be transferred to a cell with inmates who hate him, but toreno has far more power than tenpenny, and specifically needs sweet intact because CJ is a useful asset)
@@CookieThug Saddly, I imagine thats what also happened To Johnny in the years between Gta4 and 5. Too bad he didnt have someone like CJ to bust in and stop him as well. Maybe if Jim had survived.
Its true! Its like something was just off about him and CJ couldnt put his finger on it. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
12:24 I agree with that comparison. I worked in retail too and I deal with customers like that too, some wanted to scam me or pressure me to give them a discount or something when they were being too friendly to me compared to other workers. Either way, they were not always successful but yeh when someone is too friendly to you than normal, its a red flag.
Facts; just by the way CJ would respond to Big Smoke like he was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Even in the one mission when CJ was giving BS a ride home on the motor bike, BS was like as a fool and CJ’s response was that’s why I’m asking you.
I hear you. sounded a little too eager to try and get on CJs good side. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
@@kennymichaelalanya7134 when I first played this game I was mad af that Smoke was the “villain” he seemed so sweet and brotherly like to CJ and the crew.
@@Pink_pr1ncess When I first started playing GTA: San Andreas me and my brother thought Ryder was trying to get CJ killed, but it was the other way around.
@@nova_apex9864 What about, he got a close connection wit the main character & he's hilarious, but then his betrayal is the saddest in the series to this day?
@@watema3381 friends become enemies, "same thing makes us laugh makes us cry" or it could the gangster lifestyle they was living.. Like inrl its all fun n games until its all over..
It was completely out of left field, but the story blew me away, and I still cherish the memories with Smoke. I also grew to love Sweet & Ceasar for their devoted loyalty & true friendship. It took a lot of balls for Ceasar to throw his life on the line for someone he only just met, like Carl.
@@whyiseverysinglehandletaken2 not brother in law bruh he was just boyfriend and relationships are not permanent so why he would look him as brother in law
@@johanliebert6859 In one of the missions near the end of the game, Caesar asks Carl if he can pop the question to Kendl. So after the events of the game, they most likely became brothers-in-law.
My favorite thing about Big Smoke is his final words, after Carl kills him in End of the Line. He says that everyone will remember his name when he's gone. The reason it's my favorite is that Big Smoke's character bringing some comic relief as well as his order being the most well-known San Andreas meme by a landslide, even us players remember Big Smoke to this day, making his final words that much more meaningful. He is remembered, not just in-universe, but in the real world as well.
at the very beginning in cj's house, smoke was actually waiting for sweet to come home and bat his ass out but unfortunately turns out to be cj fun fact: tenpenny kinda arrested cj behind cj's house (which is kinda ironic since big smoke can see throught the window since all of it are happening exactly hehind the house) and threw him to the ballas territory expecting cj to be beaten up by ballas gang members to buy time for smoke
@@youvatassiga998 this is kinda my theory but i think he knows cj is coming but he didn't know when And as we can see in the cutscene he is in the kitchen(probably eating) and when he hears the door opens he thinks that someone is breaking to the house, that's why he is preparing and waiting for his time to attack, and when he attack, at first he didn't recognize cj because he is away from home for a long time, that's why cj said "hey hey big smoke it's me carl ,chill chill" Well that's just my theory
6:03 Ryder says ”you chubby mother fucker! Next time you better start blasting or I’ll blast you myself!” Basically telling Big Smoke does he want to get expose for not blasting at Ballas? So that Sweet and CJ would be suspicious on Big Smoke
that is exactly what i took from that dialogue when i played the 2nd time. Ryder breifly uttering the green sabre while Smoke was all " hey Ryder, shut the fuck up bout the green sabre."
I really feel bad for Big Smoke tbh, he's such a well-written antagonist. I also love how there are a few flaws in his character, such as blackmailing Ryder just like how Tempenny blackmailed him even though he's supposed to be the victim, flaws like these makes his character feel human and real
I hope Pro does this with more games. Speaking about the different details in the story of a games after he plays through it. Hopefully he does 1 or 2 more of these videos about GTA San Andreas.
@@holycrusader7829 Agreed. But still i do want him to finish the Trilogy by playing Mafia 3 yes most of the songs are Copyrighted but i still want to see his reaction and all that, plus he can talk about what was back then. He did say though that the 1920's Mafia was better.
Thank you everyone for the support on this video. It means alot to me. I didn't expect this video to blow up this much and I am very grateful to everyone for their support. If you guys enjoyed my big smoke video then please check out my San Andreas playlist. I played through the whole game recently and I also did some more San Andreas top 5s. ruclips.net/p/PLwXLuIQsiAxzy5KFMZOlaeUDt1m6w30mp
GOOD VIDEO BRUV!!
Thanks for the content bro!
i dont know who the hell that have never played or at least heard of gta san andreas.
You did an excellent job man. Deserves recognition. probably’ make it a series?
break down the social life of GTA characters and their ties to the protagonist.
All and all, excellent. 🔥👌🏽
Also wanted to point out that if you actually think about what he says, he literally gives you hints when he's supposedly talking nonsense. The quote "If you can eat your food while everyone else is losing their's and blaming you, you straight, homie." Is him basically saying that he's fine with betraying his friends if it means he's able to survive. Then there's the other quote: "I'm talking about the choices all men face, brother. Sometimes, they seem real, but other times there's no choice at all." This probably means he chose to side with the drug dealers thinking it'll make grove Street rich, but got too far into it and became a pawn to tenpenny and could not make his own choices anymore. It might explain why his missions make no sense and seem to benefit no one. It was probably tenpenny telling him to do these things and CJ just happened to be along for the ride.
There's also the theory that Smoke's order is so big is because he's trying to buy time for the drive-by.
That makes so much sense
@@user-cum2421 and smoke manipulate the entire internet to make memes of this
@@user-cum2421 perfect sense .. but he did eat his food and everyone else’s lol
@@adilsonsilva751 well he was saying the truth with his last words "Everyone's gonna remember my name, Big Smoke"
We remember him... As a joke
And ended up with atleast 3 days worth of food in one order
Also noticing that CJ is always skeptical. He’s smarter than he looks.
CJ came out of the whole gangster life all by himself, giving his family a better life outside of The Santos, CJ is way smarter than any credit he gets... Now, Sweet on the other side? Sweet is a terrible leader and by the end of the game he is putting CJ down.
They have no emotion on those PS2 faces though lmao
@@nicoyosh8159
Nah sweet is a good guy, he just cares about his family. Which to him includes everyone in the grove.
CJ is op he knows how to use heavy weapons yet jumped of a plane to another plane
@@Graknorke sweet is a good guy
Not a good leader
CJ: literally grieving about his mother dying
Smoke: *DAMN THATS CRAZY MY FRIES GETTING COLD*
LOL
Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah LetS eAt
@@sakthivinoth1034 smoke I mean you wide man, you WIDE
@@jlara2003 WIDE SMOKE
Homies gotta eat
“I didn’t know she was hit till it was over, yeah right right right let’s eat” cant get no more disrespectful than that 🤦🏾♂️
Damn, can't get more disrespectful than that! I would have put a hole on his head if he said that to me lol.
I kind of assumed that Big Smoke, playong up his "fat friendly guy" persona, was trying to keep the mood light while also keeping CJ and Sweet from thinking on it together too much (so they couldn't figure anything out)
@@HomekittyL2true but he could’ve at least just said “hey cheer up the food is here”.
That always seemed suspicious to me
I agree and its because he FAT
The missions CJ did with Smoke weren't helping GSF, but Ryder's missions did. Which means Ryder was never meant to betray CJ.
I agree. He WAS still probably meant to die tho, most likely in The Green Sabre
@@themenacingsloth I'd rather have him end up dying than him ending up being a traitor
@@AvrahamDiallo Yeah, I liked homie. He was a asshole....but a funny one. RIP Lance Wilson
@@themenacingsloth f for respect
@@lerandompersononline3746 ALL the Fs
Big Smoke is the definition of "Damn bro that's crazy but I didn't ask"
"that's big, cuz I don't care"
421st like 😳
And cj's like "The world doesn't revolve around you"
@@ayowhatthehell7955 hes big enough to create his own gravity so the world might just revolve around him lol
That's crazy lmao
I just realised that whenever CJ talks about CRASH, ballas or moms Big smoke would just answer with some poetry shit
"Right, right, right, right, right, let's eat"
“If you can eat your food why everyone losing theirs and blaming you straight homie”
@Leo Man I thought at first he was that one guy you get that is extremely nice, acceptable but says stupid things that does not make sense and acts dumb. It wad only until my 2nd playthrough I realized he literally changed the subject each time and acted stupid to remain anonymous. Smoke was pretty smart not gonna lie but he is a sneaky prick too.
@@w.c2255 "Pretty smart" is an understatement. By the end, that Ahole was sitting in a mansion playing video games, being guarded by an army of ballas!
@@adityashandilya2789 Ya he did. Out of all Gta characters Smoke was really written good. He wasn't really an obvious villian in game as literally nothing connected him to being a traitor. His missions might of been a little sus but not to the point I suspected him as a traitor. Lol but you are right " Smart in an understatement" man played us the whole time.
I was too young to understand how beautiful the story of GTA SA actually is
Same here! I remember gta 4’s story well as I was in like middle school but I was really young when I best gta sa….but I did beat it! Truly an amazing story especially looking back as an adult!
Same but that’s because the game was meant for adults 😂. I was in middle school just trying to beat the game and unlock cool things
@@Gonzalo.Escobarfacts
Wtf
Same I remember 🎴 this 🎮 I didn't understand but now we know everything does where the ☢️ 🛑
I was like 8 and I just assumed he was the homie. I still got trust issues to this day...
Dang same here....
I was in 4th grade and after struggling w/ wrong side of the tracks and hearing Smokes line that would get memed yrs later. I developed a burning hatred for Smoke so when I finally got to Green Sabre. I was more hurt that Ryder betrays you b/c I loved Ryder and how he constantly nagged CJ which made me laugh and I remember when I got to pier 69 and kill Ryder appeared on my screen. I couldn’t do it and I let him escape during the boat chase but then after I failed. I was like I gotta kill him so I did and I felt like shit after but when I got to end of the line (also didn’t mention I got stuck on flight school for almost 2 yrs b/c I had moved house and my SA and memory card got lost during the move so I moved on to other games and then I found my SA two yrs later finally passed flight school and then breezed through the game.) but when I got to end of the line and had to kill Smoke. I did not hesitate and after he died. I was like yay he’s dead then I went on to kill ten penny and finished the game after a 2 yr hiatus. Now I have beaten SA probably about 30+ times (have it on xbox 360, ps2 and mobile) and this game will always be a classic to me.
@@pyr1412 to be honest that mission isn't even that hard
@@pyr1412 I heard some rumors that before the game was released, Rockstar had planned that Ryder would not betray CJ and he would also help CJ kill Big Smoke at the end of the story. But Rockstar and Ryder’s Voice Actor have some conflicts, and left the company after that so Rockstar had to change the storyline.
💯🤣
I was 13 years old and barely spoke english when I first played San Andreas and even back then Big Smokes house being out of Grove Street was suspicious to me.
when i was kid, i was actually skipping all the cutscenes cuz i dont have clue what they are talking about, cuz english is not my first language
@@sky_5 😂
I remember saying the n word many times playing this game not knowing what it means lmao
@@frhn707 bruh Lol At Least It wasn't intended
@@sky_5 I did that too but I knew what they said and I just didn't want to waste time so I skipped all of them but my cousin said don't do that because *it reveals the story*
“What I’m sayin is...I’m hungry!” lol smooth transition there Big Smoke
lol
yeah I actually know he was proposely ordering food to stoll them so the ballers can do drive by and assaint them
I never thought about it that way... Wow... Big smoke that bitch...
not just that he also haired the Russian to assassinati cj and I can imagine what he sayd
OK cj s coming just like we plan your going to kill him but the Russian failed and big smoke s plan backfird at him so the Russian start shooting on both on cj and big smoke
@@badreedinedjellali1328 and he was hungry
I’ll always believe that they never intended Ryder to be a traitor, but something happened in development that changed the story.
@bwontheblocc you would be correct, Ryder's Va was not being paid what he was owed, so he left during development, which got the story changed due to rockstar bs.
Idk replaying it’s all there that he’s gonna betray him
@@Thiccazroach no it was confirmed Ryder was never a traitor rs didn't pay his voice actor so he left. Which is why Ryder had the same repetitive dialogue in the last few missions and appearances.
@bwontheblocc his VA had a problem w RS developers so they did that to him 😂
@@WestSideBarson in what missions was he repetitive?
When Ryder said "they was going for Sweet" and Smoke cut him off super fast, I remember thinking that something wasn't right.
Omm I was knew something was wrong that sad your own homie
Which mission when Ryder said that? I forgot
@@ismailridwan6489 the drive by mission
Yeah, in the trailer smoke actually makes ryder to betray GFS in a cutscene where they are talking in Ryders house and Smoke made him that way
@@creeperball9780 , " Drive Thru " ...
All of Ryders missions were to help and improve the Grove and their influence. Big Smokes missions were only benefitting him and the Ballas. They did Ryder dirty and I’m still mad...
Ryder could be the first one to know that Big Smoke was betraying the street. But Rockstar did him dirty
Ryder's voice actor left halfway through the game so rockstar probably panicked and made some questionable decisions but I Don't just blame them for how Ryder ended up
Fr. Ryder seemed to be the most loyal member he even told smoke in that burger mission that if he’ll kill him if he doesn’t see him shooting back at the ballas. Ryder being a traitor is very out of character
I thought it worked because of how much he smoked and Big Smoke used his addiction against him.
Bullshit. Ryder' missions helping the hood is not a good argument for him not being a traitor. His missions were all about collecting guns and ammo. That would've been useful either way because the gang ended up working for Smoke eventually. Ryder's hatred for CJ, his PCP addiction, him running away in house party are all indications that he was a traitor.
It’s so funny how we don’t see these things when we are young but as you get older shit everything just starts to make sense.
Lol we was too young to be playing this shit or understand it
Same over here now everything make sense
Ong you right on that shit because we are young it block out reals shit
That's why I'm replaying it , and gta 4
I payed almost zero attention to the actual story as kid but it's a different experience playing this game now.
Another subtle hint of Smoke’s betrayal is the default radio station in his car. The default radio station in his car is Bounce FM, which is the same default station of a car driven by the Ballas. However, the default radio station for GSF including Sweet’s and Ryder’s car is Radio Los Santos.
Edit: My mistake. Sometimes the default radio station in Sweet’s car is Radio Los Santos and sometimes it’s Bounce FM. Generally cars around Grove Street play Radio Los Santos while cars around Ballas territories play Bounce FM.
I think sweets car also plays bounce th and Ryder is the only one who plays l.s radio
Where's K JAH West?
I got into Ryder's el Camino and had country music playing. Then again though homie was smoking PCP cigarettes the whole game
Sweet'a car is always on Bounce FM by default. Ryder's is Radio Los Santos tho
I still remember GTA San Andreas roads better than my hometown's.
Facts.. I dont even need the map from Grove street to Hispanic neighborhood (forgot the gang name) 🥶
Vagos
I know Los Santos and San Fierro better than Las Venturas 😅
Same bro, i still remember every street and part of los santos
@@peters10456170 vagos
Ryder let the sabre comment slip and smoke reminded him to stfu
I had a feeling it could be that too
Nah men rockstar did me drity i didn't wan't to betray grove street
@@ryder8237 ay man wanna get a number 45 with extra dip or how about a number 9 large with cheese?
No Ryder wasn’t actually with the ballas early big smoke threatened ryder and ryder was scared and he cared more about his life than his homies Ryder betrayed grove street later than big smoke
@@tendobaby.2003 yeah cause Ryder was shooting the ballas in the mission drive thru and his missions were meant to help the grove but later on he betrayed cause tenpenny showed up in his house too
Wasn't Smoke gonna hit Sweet with the bat at the beginning, but then realized it was CJ. Maybe he was plotting on hitting Sweet himself but CJ ruined the moment.
Nah sweet was already in the cemetery in that instance. I think at that moment he just thought someone is here to rob the place
@@ryan5752 No. He was waiting for sweet to come back but it was CJ also because he saw that CJ had a chair so he could defend himself he knew he had no choice but to play along. Also he got pissed so he broke his mom's Picture.
yeah I think he thought it was sweet and when cj came big smoke was actually more pissed off because cj came that ruin he's plans
@@MariusBoss11458 but he said ‘you picked the wrong house’ that doesn’t really make sense if he was planning to hit Sweet
makes a lot of since, since he was planning to wack Sweet in his house alone to not cause a public scene outside.
The mission green Sabre was a turning point as CJ sees the betrayal for the first time... Thanks to Ceasar. Kendel chose a keeper...
Facts
Caesar is the goat just like cj
everybody needs a friend like ceasar
there a theory that ceasar was with smoke and crash to how he know everything come now he got scared bc he knew cj was a train killer so he use Cj to kill all his opps so he can be on the top how did ceasar know about crash n the green sabre, he got angry because they tried smash kendl, ryder betray em bc he couldnt get kendl so why u think he always slick side say terrible ish to cj read the lines of the streets ceasar knew wat get cj tick off that y he said alot of stuff but didnt nothing he got cj to do it bc he was setting him up n that why he send cj to his crazy cousin the mission impossible thar could got cj killed then he knew where smoke n them meeting are at everytime come on now
Thanks
I like to think Big Smoke being "Hungry" was also an allegory for him being overly ambitious.
Maybe
Maybe
Love your channel
That makes sense! R☆ doesn't include vague things inside. Smoke's behavior matches with his behavior as well as of being more ambitious.
What are u doing here lol
Honestly it worked tho
TheProfessional: “Big Smoke never argues with CJ or insults him”
Big Smoke: “All we had to do was follow the damn train, CJ!”
Don't forget the bike segment of Just Business. They bicker like a couple.
Failing that mission isn't canon.
"YOU PICKED THE WRONG HOUSE, FOOL!!"
How is that an insult, though?
@@lucasmartinez5703 if felt like it...
Lets not forget that Big Smoke was for some reason in Sweet's & Carl's house whilst Sweet was at the funeral.
After all these years I never even thought of that
My theory was that Smoke was expecting Sweet to enter his mother's home after the funeral then he was going to use his bat to finish Sweet off but CJ entered her house before so Smoke missed his chance to kill Sweet & decide to take CJ to the funeral
@@uncleruckus714 i dunno, that would raise a lot of questions. Smoke isn't at the funeral, yet comes running out of Sweet's mom's house right after Sweet is murdered. I feel like that would be too risky
@@dominikblack8943 yeah, but without CJ, the only person living in Grove Street is Ryder (a traitor), so there's not much problem into his escape. Actually, Sweet was supossed to die in the drive by while leaving the cemetery, since BS had no courage to do the job himself
@@uncleruckus714 makes sense after all. Because ten penny said kill sweet to big smoke. For money. And drugs.
There is one obvious metaphor about big smoke's betray. When CJ came home for the first time, Big Smoke thought CJ was a invader so he tried to hit him with a bat. After knowing he was CJ, Big Smoke threw the bat away and gave him a hug. THAT BAT JUST HIT AND CRACK THE PHOTO OF CJ'S MOM! R star even gave a close-up shot, which strongly suggest who murdered CJ's mom
Also why the fuck was Smoke even in that house to begin with? 🤔
@@asimb0mb I've always wondered that shit too
@@asimb0mb Ambush for Sweet. He was going to kill Sweet when he got home and pretend it was an accident if he got caught.
Man I never thought san Andreas' story was much deep
Probably because Carl saw him and grabbed the chair he couldn’t risk him telling everyone else.
One of my favorite hints of Big Smoke's betrayal is why is Big Smoke in Johnson's house in the first place. He was planning to kill Sweet when he gets back from the funeral but the moment he saw CJ, he has to act friendly to him because he was not expecting CJ to come back.
Through my 3rd playthrough actaully I also found it weird why he was in the house and thought he was probably planning something or stealing something from the house. However now that I saw this video and think about the intro of game it made me realize that Smoke did want to kill Sweet and Tenpenny helped him plan it. Remember the arrest at the beginning when Tenpenny arrested CJ and dropped him off at the Ballas gang? Tenpenny knew CJ was gonna head for that area and waited for CJ, so when they arrested him Tenpenny notified Big Smoke CJ is in the other gang and that he can kill Sweet but unfortunately CJ got there faster. A lot of people say Smoke saw the arrest through the back house window as part of plan but I also think Tenpenny notified him. Either way Smoke played us all dirty and its this little things that make us realize how good this game was written
He actually recognized CJ, and he wanted to attack him, but when CJ grabbed the chair, Smoke backed off, because CJ would've injured smoke with the chair if Smoke drew any closer.
DanX, BS reacted with words "You've picked the wrong house". Either he didn't recognize CJ and expected burglars for some reason, or presence of BS was suspicious indeed, so he did put a show for CJ with no intention of killing him
C.R.A.S.H. met up with Mr. BS before the plane landed. Cops pulled over the taxi, and the fatso in his house within the same day? Aw shit. Here we go again.
Oops, I just read the comment. Yes. Mine's a summary of the initial comment 😆
"Don't ask a wise man, ask a fool"
"That's what I was doing."
did my man dirty bro
"apply water to burned area"
Busta carl
And he said so calm 😂😂 "that's what I was doing"
something is burning and it's not my CPU
20:35 "The second time your re-play it you start to notice a lot of these things"
Me in 4th playthrough: Ohh so that's why CJ got back to LS.. His moms got killed!
I’m deceased, funny
Hahaha
😂😂
🤣
I'm exactly the same as this hahaha very good.
Big smokes motive wasn't to betray the hood but to remove Sweet out of the picture.
Big Smoke was waiting at the house for Sweet to return after the funeral to off him. But to his surprise, CJ was the one to walk through the door.
I can see that as a viable theory, I wouldn't be surprised if in the lore it worked that way. Smoke is a manipulator from beginning to end.
Big Smoke is kinda like Dimitri from GTA 4. 'cause Dimitri betrayed Niko after Niko killed Faustin and then later Dimitri betrayed and killed Jimmy Pegorino(In the deal ending). Big Smoke similarly betrayed cj because like he said he got caught up in the money and the power he could've had.
I've always wondered why smoke is in the johnson's house
There's a video that talks about Smoke being in there mom's house.
Ultimately when it's broken down the most likely reason was that he heard CJ was in town and maybe offered to wait for him there and give CJ a ride to a funeral to meet up with everyone else.
First he tried to convince Sweet to bring GSF into the dope business. When that failed he decided to betray Sweet, and you can see by his conversations with CJ that he was fishing to know where Cj’s heart was.
I still hate how Ryder had to turn into a bad guy due to voice acting issues
Yeah they could have killed him off a different way
Yeah like idk trying to help you in pier 69 and getting gunned down by ballas like that driver in vice city heist
It would have taken more effort, but they could have just gotten a new voice actor. Yeah I know the model is supposed to look a little like the voice actor, but they could have changed that too. Then they could have kept their intentions for him.
Ryder was always a buster a straight up busta!
@@azlanazitiz8683 rockstar is the buster here
You know the Game is a gem when people still talk about it after many years.
One of the greatest video games of all time
@@johngittings4673 major facts
17 years….. great story.. 😶
@@johngittings4673 It's the greatest video game of all time.
@@niklassule-unofficial4200 along with vice city
Shame they made Ryder a traitor because it’s pretty obvious he wasn’t supposed to be.
in the beta he was not meant to be a traitor
Yeah making him a traitor put quite a flaw in the story
. He didn't even go down in an epic way 😭😭. i love ryder, the best side character i could ever ask for
Couldnt agree more! Infact its kinda obvious with how they just reuse regular dialog for his final words. I made a Lore Video on Both Ryder and Smoke discussing their true potential as characters. You should check it out and let me know what you think!
Ha! Rockstar made him a traitor because the voice actor left R*
Should have just had him die at some point
For a game released in 2004, and we're still talking about it in 2023, this is just epic.
SA is a timeless masterpiece
im ngl as a kid, this shit broke my heart, lmao this is when i first find out that there's fake friends that will do you dirty
Ong fr I felt so betrayed
Right
Totally. I’ve had people stab me in the back about that badly in real life.
yes! 😭 i took it to the heart like wow! it still breaks my heart tho lol
When video games teach you stuff they don't at school....
This is why I think SA is one of the best stories ever written in a game. Even in 2021 we still have people making theories, giving evidence and discussing it.
i hope the gta sa haters don't attack you
@@MythicalExplains Up to them. Sure it's not perfect and you can argue there are other games (like VC or a different game, Metal Gear Solid imo) but I don't see them getting as much attention as SA. Just story recaps or someone explaining the plot/lore.
uhhh... no
Its the most polished game ever made other then rdr 2
@@UnsoundQuill which game?
I like how their names fit their characters: Sweet is in fact sweet, a man of moral principles who cares about his family, Smoke is shady and hard to understand, while Ryder is the typical weak guy who rides the wagon of whoever tries to manipulate him. Other examples: B-Dup trying to “beat up” his rivals by leading them into drug addiction, Big Bear as an innocent circus bear who ultimately revolts against his tamer, and so on.
Great insight
@@Sgreenenov13 thanks
And Carl the name of a man who literally been through the roughest life
whoah what great use of symbolism
Great insight man
Big Smoke is also shown to hint at his betrayal through his weird metaphors, he even kinda threatens Ryder in Introduction using metaphors and forcing him to join him.
I'm pretty sure Ryder wasn't supposed to be an antagonist but because of the conflict between Rockstar and the Ryder's voice actor they couldn't continue the story.
I remember watching a video where it was about how Ryder's character should have ended and it would have been when sweet got shot Ryder would have died there
@@hakaishinkaioshintaverz4843 they should've used tht instead for Ryder rather than having him turn on CJ too.
That makes more sense with his character considering how Die Hard Ryder is for the Family.
They killed him off like they do all the VAs that get into it with them lol
@@FreshPrincex4 from what I heard Ryder was planned to be the Main characther for spin of game called GTA San Andreas Story, and it will be similiar to Vice City Stories and Liberty City Stories (released on PSP and takes places before the main game). But due to PSP technical limitation and Ryder VA conflict the game was scrapped
@@ftheweebs6799 GTA San Andreas Stories was never a thing, it was just a lie from some youtuber
#1: his aim on the train mission
Hp love craft cat name
just dont be too close to the train and his aim is going in +
i mean dont be to near on the side
@@advanced2780 you have to be on the little patch of train where there's no track
😂😂😂😂, man and at the emmet mission he was hitting all his shots but on the train mission his accuracy is gone
@Hungry Santa I’ve heard that so many times
He decided to betray CJ when he couldn't follow the damn train
I always thought he didn't shoot them on purpose hoping one of them would kill CJ. They weren't shooting at Smoke as well.
@@Amansalwan on my playthrough, big smoke died
@@Amansalwan nah its the ai also big smoke Is being shot at but not usually cuz your the driver
Lmao I'm so glad this became a meme, I legit thought I was dogshit when I was a kid! Failed it so many times lol
Good one
A little foreshadowing I noticed, when CJ first sees Big Smoke after 5 years in the mission “Big Smoke”, when he realizes it’s CJ, he throws aside his bat onto the picture of CJ’s mom, cracking the glass, hinting at his involvement.
Along with the line “ you pick the wrong house fool “ indicating he was there to meet and tie up the loose end of the balla who shot CJs house instead of Sweets
Dude. You seriously just blew my mind. That's not a bad theroy at all
One example of big smoke being too friendly is how he never gets mad at cj for crashing the car. Notice how sweet and Ryder make comments about cj’s driving, but big smoke doesn’t say anything
@@equanimity92 I’ll check them out
@@equanimity92 and now you’re just trying too hard
@@smartii3s he's being too nice, giving me Smoke vibes
@@dannyclub09 😂
@@dannyclub09 LMAO
I wish that Ryder wasn’t a traitor. He was so wild and reckless and his missions were a lot of fun. It would have been fun to have a mentally unstable psycho as a “good guy”
He wasn’t supposed to be 😭
Ryder is a traitor tho? i thought only big smoke 😢
@@anty7242 yup problems arose while they were developing the game with Ryder's va so they had to scratch the ori idea
btw Ryder in real life is actually a rapper lol
The mentally unstable psycho part that's what we got trevor for
I think the reason that none of Big Smoke's missions helped the Grove is because they were meant to get CJ killed. He didn't pay CJ much mind when he first came home but once CJ started getting the Grove together, he started to pose a threat. Every mission Big Smoke took CJ on was something random and arbitrary where smoke instigated the situation to the point of it being deadly. He could always blame CJ's death on the vagos or Russians. And we can see at the end of the game that sweet was eventually very defeated and broken and almost gave in to doing drugs himself. I think if he lost CJ early on so soon after losing his mother, he would have hit rock bottom much sooner, allowing smoke to take over without having to kill him.
Why are you so smart
@@h.marian4695 grown man
@@h.marian4695 smh
W Analysis
Damn Smoke is such a snake.
13:06
B.S. = Big Smoke
B.S. = Bullsh*t
Never thought of that, clever.
I thought it ment Big Snake lmao
@@nwadiogoanumba2809
Technically, he is a snake.
Or Back Stabber
I think it's back slash
I think it's Ballas Street
I still don't know what Big Smoke was doing at my house when he tried to sneak attack me in the beginning of the game
Cooking burgers
Cooking burgers
I imagine he was gonna try and kill sweet when he got back from the funeral
@@thechanglingprince1853 damn that’s actually a pretty dark but interesting theory
Cooking burgers
Big smoke was literally clowning cj through the whole game some of us was just to blinded to notice
Well his name basically translates as Big Misdirection/Lie
@@LegendStormcrow pov: as a kid thinking he's big smoke because he stay with the munchies and thats why he stay eating
@@broskiyeets1599 Thats the in universe reason. He ate a lot cuz of weed
Big smokes character is so damn well made
He had big plans, Thats for sure! But I think he tried to win over CJs trust but noticed that it wouldnt work and he might become a threat later so he bided his time. A real schemer and mastermind if you ask me. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
What if Smoke was already a crack dealer and got caught and the police basically turned him into an informant
I had that in my mind too
Imo its that big smoke was forced to be a crack dealer by the police you have to remember these games are based after reagen, and a lot of black people were addicted to crack by the goverment and mass incarcerated to pretty much work as slaves to private business, mass incarceration was and still is a pretty big thing
Yo, that's just like Sleeping Dogs. Crack dealer gets arrested, becomes a informant and betrays his own gang. So much like Sleeping Dogs
@@Benjaminc11
I think this is closer to being true. My take is that smoke was always into dealing drugs generally (like that time he gets you to pick up weed for him), and then the police offered to help him grow his empire if he took out the rest of the Grove Street OGs and started dealing crack. Since they knew Sweet, CJ and Ryder (before he was written in as a villain) wouldn't stand for it and needed to be taken out of the picture, but Smoke was a weak link because of his love of notoriety and money. So they convinced him to turn on the rest, saying he was being held back, then after the big bust where GS gets mostly killed or flushed out of town, Smoke is free to deal all the crack and make all the money in the world.
@@Benjaminc11 they were mass incarcerated by joe biden
It's sad that if you know abt Smokes betrayal, you see his suspicious behaviour right from the start in basically every interaction with him
That was intended for replay value. Back then when these types of twists happened they left subtle nods to it not for new players to explore, but for second, third, forth runs for them to discover the hints and revisit the twist differently.
This is also how one of the big OG FFVII twists is hidden. FFX has some too, but only one is actually hidden.
Actually I think CJ had a feeling something was off, but he trusted Big smoke, and big smoke knew that made sure to play his hand close.
Yea how cj just casually said yea and Ight when big smoke says sum bs
Had to make sure someone said it. The biggest giveaway is CJ himself. Like you said it’s like he knew but ain’t wanna believe it because he’s supposed to be “family”.
I think its cuz they ain’t really have a plan for CJ coming back and being thrown into the thick of it. It’s like planning a surprise for someone and everything is in place and then an old friend comes back to town and so they have nothing but questions. I don’t think the game would’ve been as long if the Johnson brothers talked about how shifty Big Smoke was.
Wait so did cj know that big smoke is the one that kill his mom and brother
No but he cj had a feeling something was off
future 60 year old me.
grandchild : have you ever been in a gang, granpa?
old ass me : yes son. Grove Street, Home
*Homie*
Atleast it was before i fucked everything up
LMAO!!! Exchanging war story's too
@@Ihacksthisll and I haven't represented grove street in 30 years
@Jared Walker the yay leaving San Fiero, right?
Most of ryders missions actually benefit grove street, I saw a long time ago that there was a lot of evidence that ryder was never meant to betray cj, they just added it in last minute
Very well put! Couldnt agree more! Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
Most of Ryder's missions benefit the Ballas actually. Everytime they got guns, never delivered them to Grove.
@Joker Damn really? The Ballas literally get weak during the first part of the game, and Ryder's missions pretty much benefit GSF.
@@abadalfa GSF members did starting using Tec-9 after the Robbing Uncle Sam mission tho. Before that they only had 9mm
@@abadalfa the guns actually gets delivered to the groves they get better weapons when you complete ryder's missions
One more sign
When big smoke is placing his order you can notice him checking the rear view mirror to look if the ballas have arrived yet
Yeah you can definitely was up to something
I think Ryder mentioned the green sabre because hes so drugged up that he just straight up forgot he was a traitor too until big smoke reminded him
Nah apparently he wasn’t meant to be a traitor but the voice actor had issues with rockstar
@@anon3600 I notice when you kill ryder they dont have much dialogue for him. I noticed that the other playing it and kinda seemed odd
Nope Ryder was supposed to die in a shootout with the cops. The voice actor quit and they had to kill Ryder off.... which is why when he died, CJ doesn’t mention him, he only mentions smoke.....
@@ch33zybreadtrellie4 it make sense . The only thing he said to CJ before he was killed was "im a f'kg genius ". No more dialogue. It sounded like one of his early phrases from the game when you bump into him
Ryder VA never left R*, Its About the album problems.
This game deserves a prequel. Back with the whole together. Sweet mentions a bunch of memebers who are already buried when they are in the graveyard, they could all be characters. A prequel could show how the gang started, how CJ's mom was, what exactly drove CJ away and how Big Smoke started drifting away from the gang.
This should be a Netflix series with 39cents
Someone remembers the cancelled SA Stories? Damn what a waste...
I would prefer a remake for ps5
@@manolo4372 I don't remember shit, can you tell me please?
@@luviathan9706 They were going to make a san andreas stories basically explaining everything that happened but instead they made a 15 minute video called "the introduction" to explain everything for us... not sure why they scrapped it.
Notice how the C.R.A.S.H music continues playing when Tenpenny is off screen and CJ is talking to Smoke
Good observation
Damn that's deep
Another thing to note is once you get to San Fierro and Tenpenny and Pulaski start becoming more abusive and menacing towards CJ and his friends, the CRASH theme doesn't play anymore.
I dont understand,please explain :((((
@@maiko8585 the CRASH theme continues playing after they leave because Smoke is working with them so CJ is still talking to a member of CRASH
There are two videos on RUclips which explain this, and they also explain how Ryder wasn't supposed to betray Carl. Smoke was threatened by Tenpenny to collaborate with them since the beginning of the game, to convince Sweet to get in the drug business or kill him, but Smoke didn't want to kill his friend, so he tried first to convince Sweet to collaborate with him on the drug business, and Sweet refused. Then, when Smoke didn't have a choice, he hired two ballas in the green sabre and they shot at Sweet's house, while thinking they killed Sweet, they actually killed his mom.
The creators of the game wanted to make the Ryder the good guy, who doesn't betray CJ, but it seems the actor who voiced Ryder was in a conflict with the creators and he left before the game was finished, so they didn't know how to continue the story of Ryder. In the videos, it is assumed that Ryder was going to get killed by Smoke during the storyline, and then CJ would revenge his death. The fact that Ryder's home was in the same neighbourhood with CJ, while Smoke's home was in the ballas neighbourhood makes this theory more believable. In the green dabre mission, where CJ finds out that Smoke was working with Tenpenny, CJ mentions only Smoke's name, while Ryder is never mentioned, as if he is not there at all (both of them are there talking with Tenpenny and some ballas). From then until the mission where Ryder is killed, nobody mentions Ryder's name, while in that mission, Ryder only repeats some phrases that he has spoken in the beginning of the game, he never responds to CJ while CJ is yelling at him, even when CJ kills him, there is no cutscene where they could talk to each other in Ryder's final moments, like with Smoke. Plus, when you play missions with Ryder, those missions have the purpose to serve you to improve, when you play missions with Smoke, those missions have the purpose to serve Smoke, Tenpenny and the ballas, while CJ never wins anything there.
I like how CJ's responses sound like he's suspicious of Big Smoke whenever he gives a bullshit answer.
Facts you can hear the sarcasm in cjs voice
Yeah I noticed that
That's Basically How I Am Whenever I Hear An Bullshit Answer Given
He was definitely gaslighting yeah
"If you can eat your food while everybody losing theirs, you straight homie" so you see this dialouge may look like nonesense but when you read it after knowing what smoke did he was getting powerfull while the others losing theirs and he was straight
And don't forget the "People had to open their eyes and hearts" part in here smoke means they have to look at the situation from another angle, and then he says " I'm talking about the choices that man face, some times they seem real but there ain't no choice at all" in this dialouge he means some times you face with choices that you don't want to do but have to do.
@@a5tr3x53 as if he is taking blame off himself. You can tell Big Smoke had been loyal at some point and he is trying to give CJ a hint that none of this was personal or not all of his own making. Maybe he didn't want CJ to be a part of this mess. Tempenny was the one who kept going out of his way to hurt or kill CJ while Big Smoke seemed to still care about him.
@@laurocoman i think it's more he's trying to win cj over so that when he eventually finds out (smoke knew cj was too smart not too) he'd side with him considering cj's return had been causing major problems to his operations despite the few times cj helped out unknowingly.
@@AnonKiesura makes sense
@@a5tr3x53 so technically speaking its the definition of"THE HARDEST CHOICE REQUIRE THE STRONGEST WILL"?
Ryder wasn’t supposed to betray cj Ryders voice actor in real life was doing other things like movies and making his own album so he couldn’t record anymore lines. so rockstar just killed him off. Also if you pay close attention to Ryder last mission rockstar reuse the same lines that was already recorded.
I though it was a dispute over money?
@@cole590 if he would’ve gotten paid enough he wouldn’t have leave the project
@@khaleevafauzi9690 yeah but he said he was busy doing other things in his life which prevented him from recording more lines. I've also read before that he felt the character was too comical and thought it would hurt his image. Either way tho it sucks bc Ryders character seemed badly written with the way it ended. Its one of the very few complaints I have about the game
I'm pretty sure he left because he didn't get paid enough, just like everyone else
when I found out about that I wondered why they couldn't have just found someone new and rerecorded the lines, it was such a waste of a good character, it's a shame really
A detail that went unnoticed is that if you steal a car from the ballas the radio will be on bounce FM, in Big smoke's car the radio that is playing is also bounce FM
How can u see something like this?
Is like in real 🧬 you 🙈🙉 that ☢️🛑 that's give you a wake up call
@@hititmanify I was playing and I noticed that gang members listen to specific radio stations, Groove street members listen to Los Santos FM and the ballas listen to bounce FM
@@naotenhonome1337 never noticed that though 😲
Listen closely to Smoke's words after the Drive-Thru mission
"If you can eat yo food while everybody's losing theirs you straight"
Translation
"If you can live yo life while everybody is losing theirs you straight"
That's dope
Holy shit, if only CJ understood him at the right time, maybe he would do something with that hint
Not really...he just ate everyone’s food in the car while they were shooting .his order was so long tho to give the ballas time to roll up on them
That make sense now
i think its a parody of a famous quote. its "“If you can keep your head when all about you. Are losing theirs and blaming it on you, If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, But make allowance for their doubting too" by rudyard kipling
The reason why big smoke took forever to make his order was to stall giving enough time for the ballas to pull up
Yea. Also how is it that the ballas always knows where they are. Smoke tells them.
Also forgot to mention that the Ballas pulled up in a Voodoo so they wouldn't initially look like the Ballas common cars you see around most of Los Santos.
@@ethanrogers1389 they broke their cover by painting it pink lkao
But he was ordering for every one else too. Other characters say what they want first, and then Smoke repeats jt to the speaker
@@norbertmosorzewski6501 but like he ate everything during the shootout so he basically just ordered for himself
I like how cj actually starts to catch on cuz he sounds like he knows something is wrong later on
You're right! when he questions Big Smoke about things like moving out of the Grove and him hesitating when they got takeout, You can sense his suspicions growing. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
yeah; but he probably thought Sweet was some sort of informant or that he was making some (small-time) deals with the corrupt cops; he never thought his betrayal would be THAT big/crazy.
Why weren't 🌠 big smoke and rider you can tell there was a ☢️🛑 that's the ♥️ flag telling you betrayal is coming
Another special mention is the license plate on Big Smoke's Glendale, we know he drove a blue Glendale with a white roof, if you look at the license plate, it reads A2TMFK, it's a acronym for "A two-timing MF'er", which is a reference for his betrayal.
mean “A to the motherfucking K” like the cypress hill song
It could also mean "a two ton mfer" which also works since he's fat and all. But it having a double meaning works since it's meant to throw you off since that's what Smoke is trying to do the entire time to avoid suspicion.
Smoke was in your house waiting for Sweet, while everyone was at the funeral. He was gonna kill Sweet with the bat. At the end of the scene he throws the bat on momz picture, breaking it. It tells u from the first mission that Smoke is a snake
Alot of people say this but there's a back-door in the kitchen.
It's plausible that he saw someone he didn't initially recognise enter the house then stuck around back to catch the "theif" off guard.
It's also possible he was intentionally left out of the funeral as he was second in command of Grove Street and so had to look over it while the main boss attended the funeral.
If he was expecting Sweet why would he scream "you picked the wrong house, fool!". I think he genuinely though it was a burglar otherwise it makes no sense for him to say that if he was planning for Sweet
@@ssickhead1 Probably for plausible deniability if for some reason his attempt failed.
@@TheDeathOmen literally no else is around to hear it. And why would he use a bat? Sweet would be way more likely to survive it than to use a gun. And it would be way more messy. There would be no way to convince anyone it was an accident if sweet were to survive because he's mostly likely have to take multiple swings
E
The line he said about eating while everyone else is loosing food is a hint also it represents his greed for wealth and to be dominant
I think every "non sense" thing he said actually have a meaning. The stuff he says about choices might be a hint to CRASH forcing him to betray GS. Also, Tenpenny says fat fuck "finally" began seeing stuff their way in the introduction movie. He was greedy indeed but money alone will not be strong enough to make an underboss betray, i think. His dislike against Sweet maybe played a role too.
@@burakmuslu6392 I saw an in-depth video on smoke from another popular channel describing how smoke was sort of blackmailed by crash, so it makes even more sense with some of the poetry smoke read and about sometimes having no choices at all.
I find it really interesting the tone of voice that Big Smoke has after Ryder talks about who could have killed cj's mom, saying "yeah, well people like to talk don't they?" Almost as if Big Smoke is telling Ryder to drop the subject from all further conversations.
Yeah he was
Yep
s
I think even if I hadn't known about the betrayal going in my first time, Tenpenny and Pulaski frequenting Smoke's place was definitely suspicious.
I had a feeling about that about big smoke there was something acting very suspiciouuuuuuussssss yeah you can tell
I always assumed the reason Big Smoke makes such a big order is because he is stalling for the ballas to come attack
and also when he ate, he didn't shoot at them
edit: and why he didn't shoot at them? because he didn't wanted his gang to die
@@anty7242 he literally said it in the fucking video
It makes alot of sense. He ran interference so that the planned second attempt hit had a better chance of happening. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
That WOULD make sense, but no body would wait for someone to do a drive by in a car they are literally sitting in. It would make sense if Big Smoke got out, but to wait for someone to shoot up the car you're sitting in is definitely questionable.
Also, Smoke's insatiable appetite could be seen as an allegory for the sin of Greed, and Greed has made many a man turn traitor.
Very well put! Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
True
@@equanimity92 let's partner up in yt or something like affiliate marketing
💯💯💯
The sin of eating too much is gluttony though.
What's most interesting to me is the way Smoke treats CJ. He knew Carl was an outcast amongst his group, everyone else was with Sweet and looked down on Carl as someone who left them. Smoke thought if he killed Sweet Carl may have joined his side because of how much he treated him better than the rest of the group.
Fr!
Good point
I thought that once fr
sweet was stupid asf, just a brainless gangbanger... i always liked smoke for making it out of the hood
damn this is FR
Another hint of Smoke's being a snake was when you got into his car, his preset radio station is 'Bounce FM', which is the favourite radio station of the Ballas as Grove Fam listens to Radio Los Santos.
Very detail observation man 👏
Wtf lol 🤣🤣🤣 I didn't notice that
We're not stupid, we just gave him a blind eye because we liked him.
We like him but he betray us
I never liked him lol
@@mjrule8445 liar.
777 likes
3:39 I know this Comment is very late but
Ryder was not meant to betray The grove street
It was due to mishappenings Of the Voice actor (his name MC 8) or something Left the game at very early stage Leading rockstar to change their plot of their whole game.
The Problem with the voice actors is the main reason why CJ wont appear in hd world
Cuz Rockstar treat their voice actors like shit and Voiceactors in also sone cases are too greedy
While Big Smoke is mostly viewed as a meme character, he has a lot of depth to him when you look deeper into the story of the game. A fantastic character and a fantastic villain for a fantastic game.
"Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well 😌."
Bruh he is a meme.
With his damn order XD
I think smoke was feeling out cj to determine his willingness to roll with hin rather than against
Xactly
Smoke wanted to turn Cj, but Cj didn't budge
@@watema3381 cj was too smart
@@specialagentbob6633 Cj was too stubborn actually. If cj was smart he would have picked up or at least suspected that smoke is a rat earlier in the story.
@@johnnyboy2065 cj had doubts and wad hoping for the best though..
It just hit me that there are even subtle hints at his betrayal in his very name because the writers intended his name to actually be a literal play on words, it’s a deliberate pun on the phrase “smokescreen” which means to go to great lengths to conceal the truth from someone. So his hood name “Big Smoke” in this foreshadowing context is literally means “a big smokescreen” because that’s what he’s been doing to Carl and by extension the entire audience throughout the whole entire game!
lol you dont know what a pun is
Nah you reaching
The biggest sign was big smoke not being able to hit the vagos on the train, and me driving like a God
nah, get on top of the train and getting those Vagos is a nice way... that is Pro.
Now... flying car cheat and that is Hacker.
Noobs just stay at the side of the train.
@@nekotranslates try staying on the side and dont be to close to the train
Lmao same my smoothest drive was on that mission and I still failed twice
@@nekotranslates no, pro is driving ahead of the train, getting off the bike, and shooting them as they come towards you
I think I am the luckiest person I beat it on my first try lol
When smoke caught cj in that house he was actually waiting for sweet to try and get rid of him, since the drive by didn’t go as plan. His plan was to purposely mistaken him as an robber to say it was an accident but cj showed up unexpectedly...
Why are you talking in 3rd person CJ you better be following the dam train
"all you had to do was follow the damn train cj"
Big smoke
This is my theory too, why would Smoke be chilling with a bat in someone elses house
SHIT
@@howdoichangemyprofilepictu5359 aren't you stuck in a time loop how you here
I find it weird how Big Smoke was in CJ's house instead of being in CJ'S mother's funeral. What's more is that he seemed very scared or at least in a panic state where he brought his baseball bat.
I always got the impression that he was watching the house when I was younger.
There's a theory that big smoke was gonna kill sweet with the bat after the ballas accidentally shot his mom,that's why he was in the house
I think he was just watching the house. And he didnt know that Cj was coming. Thats why he took that bat. If you lived in ghetto and somebody just walked in your house you would take some weapon to defend yourself.
Probably waiting for cj to arrive. They knew he was coming home
@@darealepic But that theory does not explain why big smoke would scream "you picked the wrong house fool" it doesn't make any sense.
All of Smoke's Metaphors aren't just random nor nonsense. He was actively giving the hints that he's ready to betray/sell them out. Notably giving warnings about it.
*"The streets is cold, dog. Like it says in the book, we are blessed and cursed."*
- blessed is on a high status in the hood, but cursed that he had to be the traitor for his own gains. That's why the streets are "cold", it's unfair.
*"People have to open their eyes, and their hearts, CJ... I'm talking about the choices all men face, brother. Sometimes, they seem real, but other times there's no choice at all."*
-Perfectly hinting that they don't understand that he's being blackmailed, and they aren't aware of it. "choices all men face, brother. Sometimes, they seem real, but other times there's no choice at all" is an elephant in the room that he had no other choice but to kill sweet, and take over, selling out the family, at first he tried to persuade them, with the quote aligning to the "they seem real". but when carl arrived and ruin everything for him, he had no other choice but to do the one thing he may regret. with the quote "but other times there's no choice at all".
*"I admire you, Carl. You're a leader, a visionary. Remember me when you get to the top."*
-He knows that even if sweet got killed, he will take over, but since carl got back to the picture, he knows that carl WILL someday challenge his authority over the hood. He is aware of CJ's capability and doesn't underestimate him unlike sweet, tenpenny, pulaski, and ryder. That's why when CJ enters his room at the last mission, he says that. "I was wondering when you'd show up". He knows carl is coming for him, and he will make the most of his last moments before fighting his old dog.
This is my theory, this is just to clarify that his metaphors weren't crappy nonsense words, it meant something deep and be a hidden clue in a glass.
When smoke says "if you can eat your food, while everyone is losing theirs, and blaming you, you straight homie", he's literally giving you his justification on betraying Grove. If you can prosper and gain, aka eat, while everyone is losing their money and hood and prosperity, and blaming you (for betrayal).
Did you notice at the end of the game where Smoke and CJ met where Smoke was about to get killed he was wearing a bulletproof vest clarifying more about what you said about the "I was wondering when you would show up" comment?
I probably would’ve paid more attention to the story had I not been 12
me too...
Ikr
Exactly. It's a completely different experience playing it now.
13yr old me was more worried about running over crackheads and bouncing cars
True
Also what was Smoke doing in CJ's mom's house while everyone was gathering at the funeral?
He was waiting to kill Sweet with the bat
@@ha1up wait rly?
@@Emulysse Yeah he was, but when he realised it wasn’t Sweet he acted like the house was his and because CJ had been gone for soo long it took him time to recognise him
@@ha1up well maybe you got a point there
I always thought Smoke saw someone enter the house, took the back door and charged. I mean why else would he have said "You picked the wrong house fool"? But maybe he was already in there for some reason idk.
For a 2004 video game the story written here was absolutely crazy. Had this script been turned into a film it would have opened #1 at the box office.
eh, the writing is all over the place, but the first act is certainly well written
@@Underworlder5 thank you I literally keep trying to tell people this they rip on me and say its the best gta with the best story. Best gameplay no doubt. But it does go all over lol. You have all the hood stuff then you just get dumped off in the country helping conspiracy nuts and playing with remote control choppers 😂. Sweet calls a few times and CJ remembers he was trying to make money for his bail.
@@lethalassassin1754 my biggest issue is how inconsistent CJ is. one time he is a good man doing bad things to support his family, another time he buries a foreman alive because some construction workers insulted his sister. the toreno missions are quite fun, but also completely break the story. CJ works for one of the most powerful men in the country and singlehandedly stole a top secret prototype from a military base, yet is still intimidated by two street cops (sure, sweet is in jail and can be transferred to a cell with inmates who hate him, but toreno has far more power than tenpenny, and specifically needs sweet intact because CJ is a useful asset)
You can't cram a GTA story into a 2 hour film, comment is non sense
@@Underworlder5 the characters are still cleverly written though
His name being Big Smoke also can refer to "smoke and mirrors" meaning to mislead or obscure the truth.
the saddest part in the whole game is when Sweet ALMOST hit the crack pipe
Cj saved him there lol
@@aland7234 yup it’s jus crazy after all the complaining Sweet does, i can’t believe he would even contemplate it
@@CookieThug Saddly, I imagine thats what also happened To Johnny in the years between Gta4 and 5. Too bad he didnt have someone like CJ to bust in and stop him as well. Maybe if Jim had survived.
What mission was this?
@@itiswhatitis2597 Beat Down on B Dup... but watch it with caution it’s very sad
You can even tell CJ's hesitant of Big Smoke in the way he interacts with him
Its true! Its like something was just off about him and CJ couldnt put his finger on it. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
There’s also a joke that the devs put in that ironically spoils Smokes character his license plate is ‘A2TMFK’ otherwise known as ‘a two timing f*ck’
No its
Haha I love rockstar 🤣
I think for ryders license plate I noticed it said sherm 🤔
Wow never noticed that, thanks
@@GQ45 what does that mean
12:24
I agree with that comparison. I worked in retail too and I deal with customers like that too, some wanted to scam me or pressure me to give them a discount or something when they were being too friendly to me compared to other workers. Either way, they were not always successful but yeh when someone is too friendly to you than normal, its a red flag.
It like something telling me that big smoke was Up to something acting very suspiciouuuuuuussssss
CJ was already sus of him every time smoke said he would do anything for him cj just says whatever u say man
Facts; just by the way CJ would respond to Big Smoke like he was waiting for the other shoe to drop. Even in the one mission when CJ was giving BS a ride home on the motor bike, BS was like as a fool and CJ’s response was that’s why I’m asking you.
I hear you. sounded a little too eager to try and get on CJs good side. Hey by the way, I've been making GTA SA Lore Videos which I think you might enjoy! I recently made one on Big Bear. I also did one one Big Smoke and Ryder, and I plan to do many more on the other characters too! You should come swing by my channel and check them out when you get a chance! Would be kinda amazing if I could get your thoughts on them!
CJ was blinded by Loyalty and love for his crew.
Too bad Big Smoke was too ambitious and greedy because he was such a funny and iconic character
@@kennymichaelalanya7134 when I first played this game I was mad af that Smoke was the “villain” he seemed so sweet and brotherly like to CJ and the crew.
@@Pink_pr1ncess When I first started playing GTA: San Andreas me and my brother thought Ryder was trying to get CJ killed, but it was the other way around.
When Big Smoke says 'Same things make us laugh. Make us cry' Is letting you know what's to come. From GTA San Andreas.
Please elaborate
@@watema3381 big smoke is a meme (laugh) but he also died in the last mission (cry)
@@nova_apex9864 Oh wow that makes sense. Thank you!
@@nova_apex9864 What about, he got a close connection wit the main character & he's hilarious, but then his betrayal is the saddest in the series to this day?
@@watema3381 friends become enemies, "same thing makes us laugh makes us cry" or it could the gangster lifestyle they was living.. Like inrl its all fun n games until its all over..
It was completely out of left field, but the story blew me away, and I still cherish the memories with Smoke. I also grew to love Sweet & Ceasar for their devoted loyalty & true friendship. It took a lot of balls for Ceasar to throw his life on the line for someone he only just met, like Carl.
Carl was his brother in law tho
@@whyiseverysinglehandletaken2 not brother in law bruh he was just boyfriend and relationships are not permanent so why he would look him as brother in law
@@whyiseverysinglehandletaken2 he and kendl weren't married yet so technically, not a brother-in-law
@@johanliebert6859 In one of the missions near the end of the game, Caesar asks Carl if he can pop the question to Kendl. So after the events of the game, they most likely became brothers-in-law.
"anything for a friend to bang his sister" -Cesar
It's funny how CJ always gives a skeptical response to Smoke but rides with him in the end.
My favorite thing about Big Smoke is his final words, after Carl kills him in End of the Line. He says that everyone will remember his name when he's gone. The reason it's my favorite is that Big Smoke's character bringing some comic relief as well as his order being the most well-known San Andreas meme by a landslide, even us players remember Big Smoke to this day, making his final words that much more meaningful. He is remembered, not just in-universe, but in the real world as well.
so he basically predicted the future
@@Emulysse kinda
@@kartikahluwalia4795 especially when he said "remember me when you get to the top"
@@Emulysse maybe he knew that the road he chose ,lol it's not gonna end well because he knew cj was a tough mfer.
@@kartikahluwalia4795 yea maybe Big Smoke is observant
at the very beginning in cj's house, smoke was actually waiting for sweet to come home and bat his ass out but unfortunately turns out to be cj
fun fact: tenpenny kinda arrested cj behind cj's house (which is kinda ironic since big smoke can see throught the window since all of it are happening exactly hehind the house) and threw him to the ballas territory expecting cj to be beaten up by ballas gang members to buy time for smoke
damn
Exactly that’s what I always noticed. He was trying to kill Sweet.
I think not
He might just thought that there are a robber in the house
@@_lynxninja_4783 but why would he be at CJ's house when everyone is at the cemetery
@@youvatassiga998 this is kinda my theory but i think he knows cj is coming but he didn't know when
And as we can see in the cutscene he is in the kitchen(probably eating) and when he hears the door opens he thinks that someone is breaking to the house, that's why he is preparing and waiting for his time to attack, and when he attack, at first he didn't recognize cj because he is away from home for a long time, that's why cj said "hey hey big smoke it's me carl ,chill chill"
Well that's just my theory
4:26 big smoke says "people like to talk, dont they" basically telling Ryder to stfu, Ryder than agrees to shut up.
6:03 Ryder says ”you chubby mother fucker! Next time you better start blasting or I’ll blast you myself!” Basically telling Big Smoke does he want to get expose for not blasting at Ballas? So that Sweet and CJ would be suspicious on Big Smoke
that is exactly what i took from that dialogue when i played the 2nd time. Ryder breifly uttering the green sabre while Smoke was all " hey Ryder, shut the fuck up bout the green sabre."
Took me years to catch that but when I did I had goosebumps
Or how Ryder said they was going for sweet
@@Eeep_Z1 Imagine If Ryder Exposed Big Smoke Shit Would Be Fucking Wild
I really feel bad for Big Smoke tbh, he's such a well-written antagonist. I also love how there are a few flaws in his character, such as blackmailing Ryder just like how Tempenny blackmailed him even though he's supposed to be the victim, flaws like these makes his character feel human and real
I noticed as soon as you drop off smoke at his house for the first time
Right he was sus from the get go for me too
He was major sus for me after tenpenny left his crib
Even more sus when he's wanna go hit the Russian Mafia.
Every big smoke mission was a plan to get CJ killed but CJ was too OP
@@ExplorerST2023 not og loc
I hope Pro does this with more games. Speaking about the different details in the story of a games after he plays through it. Hopefully he does 1 or 2 more of these videos about GTA San Andreas.
@@holycrusader7829 Agreed. But still i do want him to finish the Trilogy by playing Mafia 3 yes most of the songs are Copyrighted but i still want to see his reaction and all that, plus he can talk about what was back then. He did say though that the 1920's Mafia was better.
#1 sign of Smoke's betrayal is that drive thru orders. He ordered it for Tenpenny and his allies.
imo he was buying time for the Ballas to drive by and try and kill Sweet, CJ and Ryder at that time
He ate as to not shoot at the Ballas.
Lol no
@@jk4675 Yes
@@truffle6082 Makes sense too.