I want to make a pinned comment here because this video is OLD and I don't entirely agree with what I said in it anymore. I'm not gonna go over everything I think I was wrong about here but overall I think I took some criticisms a little too far and would do it differently if I was making this video today.
Regular people: Use the phase locket in order to avoid taking damage Me an intellectual (?: Spams the phase locket in mid air to make a recovery when falling from moving platforms
Yeah, I rarely used the phase locket, really. I guess even knowing I had a tool like that, I didn't use it because I enjoyed actually the challenge of fighting enemies and bosses. Likewise, I liked the Mobile Gear. Meanwhile, I HATED Chaos Sphere and Alchemy Coin. The latter I felt was far more useless than the Mobile Gear.
I used the phase locket mostly on polar knight's level to avoid the spikes. Never even knew i could spam it, though. Should've tried, but I'm glad i didn't.
I come from that Mega Man school of thought, where there are a lot of tools and options that you get to figure out and use in the best ways possible. To me, it's more fun to try using a variety of methods rather than just always picking the best strategy every time. That's what replayability is all about, I think.
Yeah I was going to suggest he never played Megaman since these "problems" are actually endemic to the whole Megaman franchise. But then it didn't seem likely that he never played any of it. I get his points, you really don't want to place any rules on yourself the first run. But these things seem to be hard to balance to begin with. And what's so bad about breezing through the whole game with the most broken item and then playing again without that same item, just like I do for every Megaman game?
Hey man, don't knock the staff of striking. It has super high damage per second with no charge time which just drains boss life real quick. all you need is an opening at close range to wail on what ever is in your way.
Staff of Striking absolutely demolishes Propeller Knight when he stops to hover in the air on the side of the screen. Fight would've given me hell otherwise.
Hollow Knight does one of my favorite iterations of specter knights heal - it's a heal that requires you to spend a resource plus stand still and regains the resource by attacking enemies. However, Hollow Knight in his base form has a small maximum "darkness" pool, cannot use the heal in midair, and has a lengthy windup.
Eh it's that not hat great. It's kind of a metroidvania game but I found that it doesn't have much pay off for exploration. You hardly find new items, all the areas have the same moody vibe (even if they do have a lot of detail) and you don't feel such a sense of progress when unlocking a new area. A lot of the items you did g et seemed to be pretty useless or just unnoticeable while everything you bought had a high price. Course this could all be just because I heard it was as good as SOTN and also played it right after SOTN.
TheLegless101 could you please tell me how far you have come? I've heard that some people think that the start is a bit too slow, however I had none of the complains that you had. The game was overall satisfing in my experience.
I was close to getting past the first big door (over 3 hours in). I was off put by the fact that there was no armor in the game and also it did not seem like you would ever get a new weapon (I assume you can't).
I used the hammer several times and I kinda agree it's a bit useless. Except when it's not lol. It's good for tight spots but I only had problems in a bossfight or two and thats it.
I felt like the leech liquid was very powerful, but I never used the locket or the will skull, thinking they were garbage. It's quite interesting how the way you play games influences your view on certain mechanics. I was interested in which of the two items you put on the thumbnail was worse, so i was really surprised by the direction the video went.
The staff of Striking is actually amazing in speedruns. Sure otherwise it's useless but since it's a fast attack, it keeps the Damage frames up, aaaaand yeah my wording is poor sorry
I think a lot of the items work really well during the Shovel Knight NG+ Boss Rush, you couldn’t just use the phase locket for an instant, because then you’d be out of Mana for the next boss. You had to strategize which boss needed which item and how much of that item to use. Conserving Mana was a big part of the boss rush, so you had to use a combination of pattern memorization and item use to win.
One of my favorite things in specter of torment was the risk mail: it brought you down to 4 health and you had to break a checkpoint to use it but it gave you a more powerful attack and regenerative darkness
What you said about the Items' optional nature is specifically why I didn't care for Specter Knight nearly as much - his moveset is so powerful as it is that I never have a desire to use the items, meanwhile I consistently use pretty much every item in both Shovel and Plague Knight when running or doing casual speedruns of the game. Most of what you said here genuinely does come down to playstyle, as you said. That's specifically why I _do_ love them, because while I felt the same way you did during my early playthroughs, in the 50 playthroughs and 2 full 100% runs of Shovel Knight/Plague since then, I've fallen in love with most everything. (That's also why I'm holding out before I lock my opinion on Specter Knight, because I haven't cared to go back to him ever since several facets of that campaign soured me on the experience. Funnily enough, Specter Knight's NG+ is what hurt it the most. I feel the constantly-decreasing health bar should've been a separate mode of some sort. That they added it the way they did essentially undercuts the entire previous playthrough to me, and that cheapens Specter's items and replayability. I'd like to be able to play NG+ casually whenever I want to, and experiment with items to learn to love them like I did with the other two, but instead I'm stuck having to start the game fresh every time - and thus missing out on using later curios in older areas - or just pick levels in a near-finished save.)
I'm confused, why does specter knight's NG+ "undercut" the first playthrough? I don't see them as even being related, and what do you mean having to start the game fresh? What's the difference between specter knight having a NG+ mode that's the same as Shovel and Plague, and just replaying old levels in a late-game save file? I like Specter's NG+ because it does more than just give the enemies more damage, it actually changes how the game plays for a second playthrough. Normal NG+ modes usually bore me because the ways they increase difficulty are boring. Specter's NG+ kind of forces you to speedrun the game and limit your curio use to only when you absolutely need it, which I find really fun and challenging. Shovel Knight's NG+ was an absolute breeze because the phase locket is so op that the enemies having more damage doesn't even change anything.
Having a linked magic/health bar that's also constantly decreasing undercuts the game putting such a heavy weight on items in the main campaign, which kills the flow of the NG+ run for me. A separate challenge mode, a special item that specifically has that effect, any other option would've been fine, but they chose to play up the items in Specter's narrative while cutting their viability heavily in subsequent playthroughs. I can't just play New Game + by definition, so I have to level select and skip out on reliving the cutscenes (or what have you), OR start a new file and lose the actual option of picking from every item from the get-go. It's a decidedly closed-minded approach, different for the sake of being different, rather than something designed thoughtfully to fit into the rest of the game and Shovel Knight's other campaigns while being distinct. That's true for most of Specter though, which is what hurts it most to me: The decision to sell the game separately clearly affected the level design; they went back to square one, instead of combining level gimmicks and expanding upon them. Considering that was a problem with Shovel Knight to begin with, it feels even rougher that they didn't take that feedback and use it to improve Specter. (Not to mention how easy Specter is because of how overpowered he is, which plays back into my items/NG+ issue: he's so powerful that I didn't use the items until NG+, similarly to how I played both previous campaigns, but then I was hit with the health/magic decay in NG+ which means items are ONLY viable for that first playthrough, when they're the least necessary.) Anyway, I digress. It's not like it's a huge issue, of course! When we're talking about such a high-quality game, the little things like this are the difference between strongest and weakest. Obviously this won't affect 99% of players too, since players generally beat the game once if that. This is just for the ones like me who play the game over and over again...and then play it even more lol
He has such a strong, varied moveset, and his attacks are already so quick to come out, that it was actively more time consuming to use the curios for me. I still used them to try them (after all, they have their uses in the other two campaigns!), but that plus the New Game + combining your magic with your health and adding a health decay meant that there was even _less_ incentive to use them to me.
This is a great video, but you have to keep in mind some items are useful for speedrunning, seeing that yacht club games knows of them. The staff of striking is good for bosses and the orb and bouncy thing in specter knights campaign are good for platforming and bosses respectively. This is a great and we'll put together video/essay type thing. I would just like you to think about different types of playing, as it seems you are thinking from one perspective, which is still fine.
Aidankirbs 665 You're right, I never really thought to look into the speedrunning side of things! In future shovel knight videos I'll be sure to do some more research into the other ways the game is played.
Not the Bees Thanks! While I don't completely agree with the points brought up, I have speedran SoT and it was so much fun. From what I have seen you have not done a video on armour unless I am dense. The rail armour is great and I suggest you find your favourite pieces of armour or least favorite. This was a great video. 🤗
Honestly, the Staff of Striking is actually one of my favorites from Plague's arsenal. Yeah, its attack range is hilariously short, but the combination of mid-air hovering for as long as you manage to chain it and the fastest DPS out of any item in the game, and it absolutely *eviscerates* airborne bosses. I can shave off half of Specter or Propeller's health with one bar of power with this thing. Saved my ass against Black Knight's final fight. Actually, I ended up at least tolerating half of the arcana Plague had. Bait Bomb's useful for puzzles, Vat and Staff of Surging are good for recovery, and Leech Brew's good in a pinch as long as you know how to dodge. Although, in his case, you really don't need Arcana that often due to the combined benefits of the loadout(side note: who regularly uses a burst that isn't Float?). As for Shovel Knight, I will agree on Mobile Gear, and Alchemy Coin sucks, but the others have uses. War Horn's crowd control, Flare Rod's a solid projectile, Throwing Anchor's a good piercing, Propeller Dagger's great for platforming and chaining combos, and Dust Knuckles are just *fun*. It's just fun to punch through lines of dirt piles with that thing. Actually, Specter Knight's loadout is probably the most mixed for me, as most of the upgrades(rendered very cheap by the fact that nothing else requires currency if you're the exploring type and thus likely have a mountain of gold)pretty much eliminate most, if not all drawbacks to item usage. And honestly, only ones I used regularly were the Will Skull for pickups, the heat seeking slash attack because *oh my God that's awesome*, the shadow clone to pick up items at zero darkness cost, the hover for invincibility and platforming, and the skull sentry thing for when I want to eviscerate certain minibosses. Everything else was just too bland or too situational.
In my opinion the "Just don't use them" argument is completely valid. I know for a fact in my first run of the game I used the phase locket like twice through the whole thing. The phase locket was probably meant for little kids to have a crutch. If you use the crutch even though you know It's wrong to do so, that's on you. It's like if you used a wheelchair ramp instead of the stairs just because you didn't feel like climbing them.
I disagree, because that analogy implies that it's clear immediately upon starting the game that items are supposed to be a crutch. If that was the intention then it should be made clear, and it isn't (See also: GMTK's video on Celeste's Assist Mode). In fact you'll only know that items are optional once you get through a majority of the game without being forced to use them, or look it up online. I only realized it in hindsight. For example, the Invincibility Leaf in Super Mario 3D World makes you invincible forever, but only appears after you die a bunch on one level and it makes it clear with a dialog box that this is a tool to help struggling players and not the game's intended difficulty. Shovel Knight's items do not do this. They appear just like any other feature in the game and you won't know about how much they impact the game's difficulty until you've used them a lot. Hell, the first time playing, they might be mandatory for all you know, the game never tells you! Calling me out for using the baby item when I wanted more challenge is like blindfolding me and telling me to pick a path, and then taking off the blindfold and saying "haha dummy you took the wheelchair ramp if you wanted a challenge you should have taken the stairs!" I was blindfolded how was I supposed to know that this path was so much easier?! I can go back and take the stairs now but only after having to blindly choose the first time. Or, to put it more succinctly: Just because something is optional that doesn't make it immune to criticism.
+Hyve Minds Why bitch about something entirely OPTIONAL when you can just ignore it entirely. Just saying that given that it is optional, aren't YOU the one ruining your own fun by choosing to use them?
I know very little about Shovel Knight, but I did find your comments on how overpowered items can put a damper on the game interesting. You're incentivized to use them because they're good, so obviously you're gonna use them. That logic is why I don't like Nioh's spells.
It's the same reason I'm not a fan of the new pokemon games. They buffed the exp share so now every pokemon in your party gets a shit ton of exp for every kill, so its super easy to just show up to every gym over leveled as hell and just beat them down first try. And yeah, I COULD just not use it but that doesn't change the fact that it's THERE and that it's DUMB.
This is much more of a problem in the Gen 6 games than in Sun/Moon though. They balance the levels and difficulty in Gen 7 pretty well around the assumption you'll be using the EXP Share, so it just makes things more convenient without sacrificing challenge.
That DOES explain why I had trouble with some of the totems. I was one of the people who refused to have the exp share on at all times, but it makes a lot of sense that Gen 7 was designed around the assumption you're using the EXP share, as opposed to X&Y where there wasn't that assumption, so you just destroyed all the gyms.
You'd be surprised to see how many players just forgot that they had the phase locket because it was so powerful they didn't want to use it to skip challenges.
Surely you’d have realised the phase locket was detrimental to your experience after the first (or first few) times using it. If you made the active choice to keep using it after that point, I think that’s a problem you’ve created yourself.
4:56 - From what I've seen, speedrunners use that item every time at some point or another. But even in my own personal experience, it's one of the best ways to fight Propeller knight, because if you time the attacks JUUUUUUUUST right, you can attack each time he thrusts, and not take damage or get knocked back, which is VITAL since Plague Knight's knockback distance is RE-DICULOUS!
Fun video! I enjoyed used the Judgment Rush in the Specter Knight campaign a lot - it allows you to bypass a lot of tricky platforming, particularly in my second run-through in the difficult mode where time really matters.
Interesting. I found the smoke bomb to be the most OP of the three in my playthrough because you get a much longer period of invulnerability and you can have it up almost 100% of the time.
one thing I need to say about the mobile gear is that at times there are places where I need to have another block to get up there but again that is just for treasure
Great video! I completely agree with you on everything but personally I never used the phase locket during boss fights, it just never occurred to me and I just didn't use any curio often, so I ended up having a blast fighting each boss and learning their patterns and over coming them. Also, thats a very interesting fact about the mobile gear. I literally never used it and I think that was really funny that it could 1 shot tinker knight.
Since shovel of hope was spoiled for me I flat out refused to use the phase locket pretty much all the time. except when it was required and yes that means I beat plauge knight,s timed rematch in challenge mode without a phase to my name.(I still remember my brother screaming at me) Same goes for the smoke bomb and sorta the will skull (I only rarely used it).
You say the fun comes from winning, but something that helps you win detracts from the fun for you? I think you REALLY find the fun from playing, and thus it is your fault that you aren't having fun because you can choose to not use items. It's only your "it's all about winning, NOT playing" mindset that prevented you from having fun.
The fun in the game does come from playing, and from overcoming a challenge. The presence of an item that negates a large amount of that challenge, whether or not I choose to use it, cheapens the experience simply by existing. I'm not critiquing one playthrough of the game, I'm critiquing it's overall design. And I've enjoyed later playthroughs of Shovel and Plague more than I did the first time playing because I chose not to rely on items. Like I said in the video, if a game had a "WIN GAME" button on the main menu, I probably wouldn't use it, but I would still criticize it's inclusion. Also, never once did I say I didn't have fun with Shovel Knight. I had fun basically every moment I was playing but that doesn't make it immune to criticism, and that doesn't mean I couldn't have been having potentially MORE fun if certain things were designed differently. Hope that all makes sense. Thanks for watching and for your comment, I'm always happy to see dissenting opinions, it helps me improve my arguments.
A much more mature video than the first one but a little bit exclusionary. I demand speedrunner mode! :D No, I mean like for real, I guess a countless number of people already told you that the Staff of striking may be the most useful Arcana from a speedrunner standpoint. It is the only one used in the current most populat route of Plague of Shadows. Also, I agree about the gear...mostly. Also from a speedrunner's standpoint I could say that it offers a few very interesting skips and I do not even mean the big ones but instead small skips worth a few seconds and it also hits for 1 damage instead of 0.5 which makes it pretty useful in boss battles. Of course speedrunners are a minority but still, I think it was worth to have another point of view. Oh...you wonder what the worst item is for me? Hmmm, well, the Caltrops. Hahahahaha. No, really, all of the items could serve you well. It totally depends on your playstyle and the way you want to play. I totally abused the Locket, Knuckles, Propeller Dagger and Hover Plume as well as the Staff of Surging and Vat. However, I think that even the Chronos Coin (of Specter) and the Coin (which is already proven to be truth by TAS Bot and a few runners) could be very useful if they fit your mentality well.
I will go ahead and mention that the arcana I remember using the most were the following Bait bomb: good early game tool for fighting basic knights as I find most bomb powders struggle to best them until sparkler cascade and cluster Vat: I use this to take full advantage of plague knights aerial capability Big boom: another useful range tool for damaging enimies in ways the bait bomb or casings struggle. Also useful for specter knight. Beserkers brew: I use it in one scenario with the attacking platforms right before the enchantress Smoke bomb: ehh really only for spikes Life essence: I only use it in new game plus as it’s a lifesaver once you get the pattern down
When I first used the phase locket I didn't have that much mana, and I got scared of using it, so I ended up ignoring it, even when I could bear the cost. Also I found out recently that I was using it wrong, activating it a second to early, leaving it mostly used up by the time I did what I wanted to do with it.
I personally enjoyed figuring out what situations certain items are very useful in. For example, I rarely ever used the Horn with Shovel Knight, but it absolutely tears through his last dream sequence and that earns you a ton of money. Figuring out that interaction requires the player to be paying attention to what items do and resourceful in how to apply them, and it rewards you for doing so. By the end of the game I had certain sorts of situations in which I'd use certain items, such as the claw on annoying enemies with shields so quickly deal with them or using the bouncy orb on a boss in a way that deals a lot of damage. It's satisfying in the same was as figuring out and countering a boss' pattern is, only this relies on the player actively using the correct item rather than reactively responding to a boss' pattern with your own attacks. Also, I think the Smoke Bomb/Phase Locket should be counted as platforming aids since they let you circumvent instakill spikes as well as other damaging environmental hazards that hinder platforming.
Great video! It really brought a new perspective on things, that I never thought about. I really hope you make a video on the best/worst boss in this style! Here are MY oppinions, and remember, this is ONLY from a gameplay and game design perspective, no story /design or anything like that. Anyway, here we go! BEST: Treasure Knight - Shovel of Hope. Bet you didn't expect that one! Treasure Knight from Shovel of Hope is in my opinion the best designed boss in the game. His SoT counterpart is a little worse with its new attacks being a little weird and specific to dodge, but he's still great! What makes him so good is that it's a reactionary battle; for both of you! You can manipulate TKs attack patterns by standing in certain places but you still have to react fast and be on your toes, because he might surprise you with his multiple approaches to your acctions! WORST: Polar Knight - Shovel of Hope. Oh boy. Story? Visual design? Top freakin' notch. But, as I said, we're not talking about that. While Propeller Knight is just a bit bland, this guy seriously doesn't know what he's doing: too paternized, AND too unpredictable at the same time. The first phase is... okay... but there are so many ways to fail, and unlike Plague Knight where every hit feels (mostly) justified, this guy loves to trap you into a corner, litteraly and figuratively. Then, the kaizo, golden reflex crap you have to dodge is outright bad, getting new players and veterans alike! I see what they where going for, but, as hard it is for me to say this, noone ain't perfect, not even Yacht Club. SPECIAL: Plague of Shadows - Plague of Shadows. SPOILERS (obviously). I just had to mention this guy: he's just goddamn GOLD. I don't know what it is about him, I just LOVE IT - yet it is a guilty pleasure. Remember Plague Knight? Well now he's stronger, and his arena more accurately matches him (it's crazy)! Now, remember Plague Knight? Well now you're playing as him! And he's just as spaztic to control as he is to fight! It all just leads to a glorious golden mess I had to mention. NOTES: SoH and PoS: Black Knight is... Good... I guess. King Knight is great! Not much to say there... Specter Knight is good, but a way to paternized. Plague Knight is... weird... he's a... GOOD spaztic boss?! (Yes. Yes he is.) Mole Knight is mostly good, but sadly destroyed by that fire droplet attack. Tinker Knight could be better, but... Eh. Propeller Knight is pretty crap... few attacks, and even then, they're not all that good: too specific... Polar Knight is just like Propeler Knight The Big Creep is surprisingly good! Black Knight (Tower of Fate) is another really good one! Enchantress is pretty great, even if I hate her. Remminance of Fate: A bit too boring, only one or two attacks, and admit it, the hole Shield Knight gimmick gets a little old after a while. Plague of Shadows: HA! Just no. Corrupted Essence: I admit it: I LOVE this boss! Every attack is greatly designed and extremely fun to dodge! Except for that downward swipe of projectiles. It catches me off guard, and he seems to use it while I'm in the air, making me fall on it immediatly. SoT: again... procrastination... ( And I have quite a bit of homework to do...) KoC: King of Pridemoor seems really good, similar to TK and CorruptedE!
Mole knight in shovel of hope is my favorite shovel knight boss because it utilizes the stages item, the dust knuckles, in such a way that you can punch through his projectile attacks making the fight more interesting and time based along side the timed jumps on top of him when he dove from wall to wall
When I was playing with Shovel, I thought that the locket was - A - not usable mid-air and - B - stoppable while its ghost animation was playing. I felt really stupid firstly, but now I think I might've done myself a favor by that.
I used that burst the whole way through because I am a scrub. Haha, no regrets! But yeah, it definitely negates the point of Plague Knight, being designed for much more skilled players.
ItZed At least you figured it out There are still occasional posts on /r/ShovelKnight complaining about Plague Knight being too slow and clunky, because they're using the float burst
Have in mind that you may not have finished Plague campaign at all if it was not for the Float Burst. I guess the put it in there so that people could initially get into Plague. After getting good it is only normal to stop using it because better players will get frustrated with how slow it makes you. I myself tend to use the Screw Attack...burst mostly now and I am not good at the campaign at all. I think I have beaten it 3 times and I already have gotten good enough to drop the Float Burst.
Excellent analysis on items. I agree with the notion that those items are overpowered and that handicapping yourself to have fun again is counter intuitive. Will look forward for more content
Thank god I didn’t manage to discover phase locket the first time I played shovel knight, I managed to study patterns of the bosses and know how they work. I actually played shovel knight without any item and it was actually challenging.
For boss fights in Shovel of Hope I mostly used the green bouncing weapon and used the phase locket for Frost knight, and the Enchantress (or when I was on low health). But the real problem with that item is that the fish god has a juice that makes you invincible for ten seconds and it is made useless because of that locket.
Funny, I used the phase locket a decent amount throughout the game, and used chaos spheres (the green things) when polar knight came around. It’s like half of his health went to get milk with your dad
Instead of items you could've called them what they're called in Castlevania: Sub-Weapons. Also, I think you forgot to mention another group of people: People who are both skilled at combat AND platforming, thus are not particularly biased toward a specific relic to help them with either. They can literally just use whatever they think is the most fun, which is exactly what I did. And that is why Chaos Sphere, Staff of Striking, and Dread Talon are my most used relic in each campaign. Dread Talon once upgraded is just a nice way to instantly delete a troublesome enemy if you're trying to pass through quickly since it one-shots most everything, ignores defenses, and gives you super-armor so you can't be prevented from doing so. Also you can kind of use it to help you platform a little bit if you're too lazy to swap weapons since it pauses your vertical movement, and then nudges you forward a little bit. It also tends to reap a fair bit of darkness per hit against tougher enemies.
Funnily enough, I'm psyched for the Mobile Gear's application in Rivals of Aether, where it's going to be an amazing Neutral tool for Shovel knight where he forces foes to jump over it or such.
Personally, I didn't have many problems with items being overpowered for the simple fact that I sort of "challenged" myself to not use them that much. With Shovel, I often just used the fire rod to attack a bit from a distance, and that's it With Plague, I found myself often using the big bomb for double damage and outrageous range With Specter, I spammed the skull at first (remember tough that specter's campaign has less food than the others) and, when I got familiar with the controls, I started using the Spider sickle for how strong it is when upgraded (but it still requires a bit of skill for good placement, or you won't get more than 1 hit with it) For King, I often used the glove for fast damage, the horns when i didn't know what to use but still wanted some extra damage. Having said that, I can see how some items aren't well balanced and become too powerful, but it's really just an easy getaway to avoid rage-quitting because of harder parts.
I loved the bouncy ball and considered him a battle companion for Shovel's story, I never realized how easy it was to manipulate the gear but would use it to give higher jumps at times. For Plague, I relied on the Leech Liquid a lot, as I typically only used the potion things when I couldn't collect more. As for Specter, well... I guess I used the float feather and rush attack more often than others. I hated using the Dust Knuckles, the staff attack, and the wall bouncing soul.
It’s interesting to see this. I honestly almost never used the phase locket or any of the other similar items in the other campaigns. I think it’s because as an item and as a utility, I wasn’t nearly as interested in it as I was the other items. I always favored the ones that offered some new form of mobility or an attacking item with a unique range or attribute. I understand now that I probably made the campaigns much harder on myself for not exploiting the phase locket or will skull, but I played in a way that made the most sense to me.
Certain items are actually REALLY good, but your standard loadout is just way better. The Staff of Striking actually has insane DPS if you can get close enough.
Nich White Very true, pretty much every item has SOME case where it's useful, which is why I added "too specific" as another reason for an item to be category 1. It all comes back to items being optional. Yeah, I COULD use the barrier lantern to block this lava drip... Or I could just wait half a second.
Shovel Knight is my favorite game so i just had to watch this video. I like that you mentioned that the items being this way is fine, but you'd have more fun if it were more challenging - that's straight up good presentation. Also i like how you separated the video in chapters. And yea, the gear is the worst item.
I actually had to use Phase Locket to traverse a gap where the enemy that gave me a boost wouldn’t appear for some reason, since I didn’t have the Propeller Dagger. (I was in Propeller Knight’s stage on the screen after the second point.)
Fish-bomb and fishing pole give you endless health--- super powerful. The Alchemy Coin does double-damage and can be re-shot at the enemy endless times for no extra mana-cost. SUPER-POWERFUL!! The digging-gauntlet may be hard to land a shot with, but since it grants you invulverability, it means that it can allow you chain combos. It is SUPER POWERFUL. The staff of striking gives PlaK a melee attack that is faster than any other knight's! SUPER USEFUL!!
2- This means freedom of player choice. Do you really want to be forced to wield 7 or 8 spells and understand their mechanics? Oh, OK. That was just to preface 3... 3- There's also ShK's Mobile Gear, which is much faster than the PD. Super useful for running through towns, or for navigating spikey rooms carefree. It could even be used to get through most of the forest of phasing. It's true that the shovel/scythe/bomb gets the job done, but magic makes things faster, more dynamic, and more fun.
Honestly, the Leeching Liquid and Berserker's Brew were very well-intentioned attempts at the "Phase Locket" type item. The Leeching Liquid can reward you with potentially HUGE amounts of health, but you need to hit your bombs. It's a real risk-reward item, but it is limited, as you said, by how many heals Plague of Shadows throw at you. Berserker's Brew is extremely cool, because it is a phase locket that ONLY works on contact damage, and not other sources, which means that it doesn't just shred bosses. It even offers a fun risk-reward by allowing you to damage enemies by touching them, which can turn fights into a question of "should I go in for another hit, or stay back so my brew doesn't wear off at a bad time". TLDR, Plague of Shadows has my personal favorite spread of Sub weapons.
I didn't use the phase locket at all in my first playthrough of shovel knight, because it thought that the cost was too much. I didn't really use the items in shovel of hope that much and went mostly vanilla, despite buying or finding all of them. It was a pretty great experience anyway.
The phase locket is a difficult situation for me. While I see that it is very overpowered, I absolutely suck at using it, and usually refer to the flare wand and chaos orb instead. The alchemy coin doesn’t exactly seem like an item to use conventionally. I personally found it very useful for grinding in Plains (which I did quite a bit. To the point that I have all three Plains memorized quite well) Another item that kinda sucks is the war horn. While it seems useful on paper, it costs so much magic that I never used it, except for the duet in the airship. In terms of plague knight, the staff of striking it useless in the main stages. But I found it damn near essential for the final boss. Also the potions. They just suck. Specter knight’s will skull didn’t exactly ruin the experience for me. But that’s probably cause I suck at games. And I didn’t realize how stupidly OP the skele sentry was until after I beat the main game. Let’s just hope that king knight’s heirlooms are useful, but not too OP.
Alright, so here's the Heirlooms that King of Cards brings: - *Healing Hammer:* A slow hammer attack that draws out a heart - *Propeller Jousteed:* A conveniently cheap piercing projectile. - *Rat Bombardier:* A rat that carries a fairly strong bomb. Can be redirected or bashed away. - *Dueling Glove:* Fast close-range attack with a cheap cost. - *Turn Coat:* Barrier that blocks attacks and in turn fires projectiles. - *Bubble Frog:* Suspends King Knight in a bubble that he can bash out of. - *Scepter of Swiftness:* A strong rushing attack that can go a long way. - *Scorching Saber:* A rising attack that slams down with a fiery shockwave. - *Gyro Boots:* Makes King Knight spin for a while, hopping up against walls on contact. - *Horns of Heralding:* Shoots confetti that damages foes and reclaims lost gold.
I just recently bought Shovel Knight Treasure Trove, and while I am seasoned gamer, Specter of Torment had me raging because of the Specter Knight's movement. The wall climb felt like it happened whenever it wanted to, and the ability to fling yourself off of objects and enemies, was at times locking onto the wrong targets. Nothing like throwing yourself into a bottomless pit over and over again because of a random projectile or Specter not wanting to let go of a ledge the right way. I was so happy to get the hover and judgement skills.
It's interesting that most of the reasons you dislike the items, I feel in love with them. Most items I've found have a specific level or instance where they make gameplay slightly easier for the player, but not outright so. If you're a newer player who finds platforming games difficult, you may rely on them (Which I don't believe you focused on enough in your video), but if you're an experienced player, then you can breeze through without the items. It's the perfect balance. At the very least, I greatly appreciate you never using the term objective throughout your review, and that you kept things very opinionated and allowed room for others opinions as well! Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching and I appreciate the comment! But in response to your point, I don't think that is a perfect balance. Maybe as a more skilled player I'd also like to use items without feeling like I'm getting a watered down, too easy experience. It's another reason I don't like when people tell me "if you don't like it don't use it." Well maybe I WANT to use it but the way it's designed lessens the fun for me. And yeah, I'm of the mindset that any discussion of a game is inherently subjective and trying to be objective is usually pretty pointless.
When I first played new game plus and beat the first boss in the boss rush stage and opened the food tray and saw a bomb, I knew I'd be spamming the phase locket and smoke bomb a lot.
Honestly, I found the soul skull to be a lot more fun and intuitive than you'd think. I used it not just as a healing item- but as an air-staller and a way to get through difficult platforming sections.
Yeah, I used the phase locket and will skull in a similar way on occasion. But the hover plume is just straight up better for helping with platforming. Most of the time I had hover plume during the level and then immediately switched to will skull for bosses.
I think the point you made at around 10:00 is the best case for the items in the game. Without them, it would be hard for some people to beat the game. I didn't use the phase locket much, but you better believe I used a bunch of other items.
I actually agree with some of the stuff you said. I think this game compares to castlevania 4 where you don’t actually use items. In Castlevania 4 you mainly just use your whip cause you get 8 directions to choose from, so there’s really no certainty to use that knife or axe to use hearts on because your just as powerful.
I actually never used the phase locket too much in the main story. Only for a few screens in the Explodatorium and on Polar Knight's boss fight. That's probably a reason I thought the campaign was fairly difficult from beginning to end.
i used the smoke bomb twice during the whole campain i only used the will skull when i was at like 1 health and sometime just to get to max health for bonuses the phase locked i used the most, but still i only used it in rare situations where, for example, last fight with the enchantress where she does the atack that goes through the entire screen while shield knight is on the other side of the room i think i neglected most of the items because i felt like running out of magic was way worse than it actually is
There’s no “No Curio Run” achievement for Spectre Knight because you will get a curio once you start the flashback levels. The Caltrops, while an optional pickup in the first flashback, is given to you during the second one, and since you can’t skip the flashback levels it would be impossible to not have any curios at the end of the game.
I don't necessarily agree with your view on the will skull tbh. Sure, it can be overpowered when it comes to bosses, but that's not the whole game. It's not an automatic win the game button like you compared it to. You can still die while using it, whether it be falling down a pit in a stage or certain boss fights, or not being able to use it fast enough. The phase locket does more or less fit that description, though, as the only thing that can kill you while using it is pits if I'm correct? If they even can? I'm not sure, I never used it until going back for music sheets. That was a while ago. I do think it's a bit unfair to judge them for being overpowered if, like you mentioned in the video, they're completely optional. There's a difference between applying house rules and choosing not to spam an overpowered item if you don't like it. If they break the game so much you can, again, choose not to use them, or only use them in a pinch. Keeps the challenge to the game completely by your own choice. And, keep in mind, there are some people(myself included) who like making the game easier in those ways; whether it be they are just unskilled or just like playing for fun. In my case it's kinda a mix of both, I'll admit. I dunno, video was ok even if I didn't agree with it entirely.
The win game button is just an analogy. I'm not actually comparing these items to a win game button, I'm using it as a hypothetical to show that just because something is optional that doesn't make it immune to criticism. Admittedly, I could have gone into more detail in that section and phrased things better so people wouldn't get so hung up on that particular line.
Good analysis - I like how you touched on your opinion of how items could have been handled better, but also that you recognized the possible reason behind why it was done the way it was, to be a more accessible game to the largest audience. From my perspective I'm not a very skilled gamer so the items are helpful for me for the platforming where I don't have to worry as much about being attacked, but at the same time I'm a spaz so I'm not as coordinated at using the items and end up just doing without them in boss fights where I need to worry about being targeted. Interesting. Also "opined" lol.
First off, amazing video! I enjoyed listening to your argument and it really got me thinking about the items in Shovel Knight and made me realize that they definitely do fall into those 2 categories you mentioned. It wasn't until I started trying to speed run the game (for the achievement and for fun) that I really got an appreciation for the level design and how intricate some of the platforming can be without skipping the difficult parts via propeller dagger or phase locket. Honestly to me my favorite item ended up being the chaos orb, which I find is a semi-decent medium between useless an overpowered. My first play through I never bothered to use it and didn't think much of it. It wasn't until speed running that its potential really became clear. Although its use can be very niche, when it becomes useful it's extremely powerful, especially in boss battles. Honestly it's a bit too good on bosses, but there are a lot of parts in levels where a well placed Chaos Orb can take care of 2-3 annoying enemies. I don't know. Just my two cents. Either way I think you're correct. Shovel Knights fun can definitely be undercut by its items if you let it. (That's not to say it isn't fun at all, I extremely enjoyed my first play through of the game, but to say it withholds it from its max potential).
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! You're one of several people to mention that speedrunning the game changed your outlook on it, which I find fascinating. Speedrunning is always something I've enjoyed watching but never felt I had the skill to do myself, but your comment really makes me want to try it. I at least want to see if I can go fast enough to get the Hurry Up! feat but I feel like I might end up just abusing the items again. Depends how it's routed I suppose.
You really should! It's not really too hard, you just need to make sure you break enough checkpoints to buy the required items and not die when you have no checkpoints lol. If you just want the hurry up achievement, you can actually have quite a few deaths and still get it.
Personally i think the items are perfect the way they are, if you arnt skilled, then you have the choice to decide to get good on your own or have help, and same for skilled players, uf you want a challenge. Why complain about something that isint ment for you?
12:05 ... tinker knight: did you just killed me with my own attack? tinker knight: this doesn't count right/ *surely this doesn't count.* tinker knight: that's does it *TIME TO DIE!* *mech intesefy*
To be honest, I ended up never using the Phase Locket and using extremely rarely the Will Skull. I see them as items created to help you go through parts of levels or boss fights that you just can't understand, to avoid you raging for hours because you don't understand the timing etc. It never really occurred to me that you could use them to cheese entire levels, and I think that they were intended to be so obviously powerful that players, by themselves, could understand that they were not meant to be used as regularly as the Anchor, the Boomerang Scythe etc.
I never really used the phase locket. It kind of threw off my flow when I used it because of the momentary screen freezing and then fighting my urge to dodge things for a moment while also trying to be aware of how long it will last. It was just easier for me to dodge on my own. xD
When I first played shovel knights campaign I didn’t realize the phase locket being overpowered most of the items I didn’t use because I was trying to save Mana I really only used it when I got in a serious challenge even durning the final boss fight I kind of forgot some of the items existed I really enjoyed the video good job.
i only used the vat for Plague Knight, ooooh boy i was falling into cliffs like nobody's busyness till i got the Ward Guard (no pushback when taking damage) plus the Vat (instant platform to charge the burst jump) and the Floating feature on the burst jump just in case XD
"by that logic it would be okay to put a button that one hundred percents the game in the menu" has it really been so long people forgot what cheat codes are?
@@dragonusmolamola4140 yeah that makes it even sillier tbh. Like, by his logic he should be using every code he knows every game since not using them in an artificial handicap
cheat codes are outside of the primary intended experience, they're literally called _cheat_ codes. The Phase Locket is in the main game and very abusable
I played megaman a lot and mapped my key according to that game almost always and used propeller dagger as replacement for dash. That made the game a lot fun for me and honestly completely broke the final phase of the last boss. I used that and phase almost exclusively.
Concerning the "don't like it don't use it" argument, the biggest problem I have with it is: That same item that I don't want to use...could have been an item that I DID want to use. The Phase Locket could have been an item that didn't feel like a cheap win, the will skull could have been an item that was much more interesting to use instead. I feel it's fair to criticize even that which is optional, because of what it could have been instead.
I just wish you could deactivate certain items, change their cycle order, or map different ones to different buttons. The cycling became a hindrance my first playthrough because half the items I didn't use.
I want to make a pinned comment here because this video is OLD and I don't entirely agree with what I said in it anymore. I'm not gonna go over everything I think I was wrong about here but overall I think I took some criticisms a little too far and would do it differently if I was making this video today.
was still a good video ngl
Regular people: Use the phase locket in order to avoid taking damage
Me an intellectual (?: Spams the phase locket in mid air to make a recovery when falling from moving platforms
bruh everybody does that
Me: *rarely ever uses the Phase Locker, and uses the Flare Wand more often.*
@@baconvideo8413 me too
XD when I first played the flame wand was the only item I used XD
i think almost everyone does that
I straight up forgot I had the phase locket when I did Shovel Knight's campaign, so I never used it. I abused the crap out of the will skull though.
Colby Allen Same, probably why spectre knight's campaign seemed so much easier. :p
Funnily enough, I barely used it to actually heal. I would use it to save myself from a mistimed jump more than anything
Yeah, I rarely used the phase locket, really. I guess even knowing I had a tool like that, I didn't use it because I enjoyed actually the challenge of fighting enemies and bosses.
Likewise, I liked the Mobile Gear. Meanwhile, I HATED Chaos Sphere and Alchemy Coin. The latter I felt was far more useless than the Mobile Gear.
Specter knight was my favorite
I used the phase locket mostly on polar knight's level to avoid the spikes. Never even knew i could spam it, though. Should've tried, but I'm glad i didn't.
I come from that Mega Man school of thought, where there are a lot of tools and options that you get to figure out and use in the best ways possible. To me, it's more fun to try using a variety of methods rather than just always picking the best strategy every time. That's what replayability is all about, I think.
Yeah I was going to suggest he never played Megaman since these "problems" are actually endemic to the whole Megaman franchise. But then it didn't seem likely that he never played any of it. I get his points, you really don't want to place any rules on yourself the first run. But these things seem to be hard to balance to begin with. And what's so bad about breezing through the whole game with the most broken item and then playing again without that same item, just like I do for every Megaman game?
*Metal blade intensifies*
I never used weapons other than the buster, except when i got to a boss.
@@Manas-co8wl Not unless you’re playing Mega Man Zero lol
(If you don’t feel bothered farming cyber crystals just to get cyber elves)
@@cardboardhawks6783 mega man 2 is just a bad game.
After watching this video I think that King Knight's healing "item" (it's more so a move than an item) is done really well.
It's also really ridiculous looking. He just pulls put a long squeaky hammer and smacks the enemy. It is silly and I love it.
@@seabassthegamer6644 That's great too, but I actually meant when you hold down you can restore 5 hearts by crying.
@@Balibali418 The best part is is that it's installed by a mechanic.
King knight is a robot
Seabass the Gamer king knight has a mother who gives him food
@@surfyplayer8231 King Knight is adopted. Problem solved!
Also not to mention I'm kinda kidding
Staff of Striking SHREDS certain bosses when spammed
Like that stupid final boss with the exploding monas
Samuel Mitschele-Dauenhauer I see you are of the intellectual type as well
Yes
It's by far my favorite plague knight item, because he has sooo much movement anyway
It helped me immensely against Propeller knight when I first fought him as plague boi
Hey man, don't knock the staff of striking. It has super high damage per second with no charge time which just drains boss life real quick. all you need is an opening at close range to wail on what ever is in your way.
Man, so many people have been saying this about the staff of striking! I'll have to go back and try it again.
now I kinda want to do a Staff of Striking only run on Plague Knight (input the cheat code for it so that you have it when you start, maybe.)
Staff of Striking absolutely demolishes Propeller Knight when he stops to hover in the air on the side of the screen. Fight would've given me hell otherwise.
i like the staff of striking and glove from king knight's campaign because they give you access to a more straightforward attack when you need it
@@HyveMindsGames Watch speedruns, you see the staff of striking all over the shop
Hollow Knight does one of my favorite iterations of specter knights heal - it's a heal that requires you to spend a resource plus stand still and regains the resource by attacking enemies. However, Hollow Knight in his base form has a small maximum "darkness" pool, cannot use the heal in midair, and has a lengthy windup.
I completely agree. My first playthough w/ specter was easy, but playing hollow knight, my favorite game, was gratifying and tons of fun.
I'll have to check out Hollow Knight at some point. Heard a ton of good things about but never got around to actually playing it.
Eh it's that not hat great. It's kind of a metroidvania game but I found that it doesn't have much pay off for exploration. You hardly find new items, all the areas have the same moody vibe (even if they do have a lot of detail) and you don't feel such a sense of progress when unlocking a new area. A lot of the items you did g et seemed to be pretty useless or just unnoticeable while everything you bought had a high price. Course this could all be just because I heard it was as good as SOTN and also played it right after SOTN.
TheLegless101 could you please tell me how far you have come?
I've heard that some people think that the start is a bit too slow, however I had none of the complains that you had.
The game was overall satisfing in my experience.
I was close to getting past the first big door (over 3 hours in). I was off put by the fact that there was no armor in the game and also it did not seem like you would ever get a new weapon (I assume you can't).
King of cards might have their own item of this sort. That item being the heart hammer, a hammer that, if it hits the enemy, they drop hearts.
It is kinda slow
Trust me, I never use it.
I used the hammer several times and I kinda agree it's a bit useless. Except when it's not lol. It's good for tight spots but I only had problems in a bossfight or two and thats it.
The 146th Walnut the only item like these in king knight is the bubble and even that’s not as bad as the vat
I felt like the leech liquid was very powerful, but I never used the locket or the will skull, thinking they were garbage. It's quite interesting how the way you play games influences your view on certain mechanics. I was interested in which of the two items you put on the thumbnail was worse, so i was really surprised by the direction the video went.
The staff of Striking is actually amazing in speedruns. Sure otherwise it's useless but since it's a fast attack, it keeps the Damage frames up, aaaaand yeah my wording is poor sorry
Fuck that I'm a casual player and I love SOS. It's god tier at all levels of the game.
I think a lot of the items work really well during the Shovel Knight NG+ Boss Rush, you couldn’t just use the phase locket for an instant, because then you’d be out of Mana for the next boss. You had to strategize which boss needed which item and how much of that item to use. Conserving Mana was a big part of the boss rush, so you had to use a combination of pattern memorization and item use to win.
VeinerSchnoozle unless you used the purple armor like someone who doesn't suck at shovel Knight
One of my favorite things in specter of torment was the risk mail: it brought you down to 4 health and you had to break a checkpoint to use it but it gave you a more powerful attack and regenerative darkness
I never used the phase locket but i used the will skull like there was no tommorow
7:17 awesome music sync up w/ the smashing snowball
Woooow :0 so *cool*
What you said about the Items' optional nature is specifically why I didn't care for Specter Knight nearly as much - his moveset is so powerful as it is that I never have a desire to use the items, meanwhile I consistently use pretty much every item in both Shovel and Plague Knight when running or doing casual speedruns of the game.
Most of what you said here genuinely does come down to playstyle, as you said. That's specifically why I _do_ love them, because while I felt the same way you did during my early playthroughs, in the 50 playthroughs and 2 full 100% runs of Shovel Knight/Plague since then, I've fallen in love with most everything. (That's also why I'm holding out before I lock my opinion on Specter Knight, because I haven't cared to go back to him ever since several facets of that campaign soured me on the experience. Funnily enough, Specter Knight's NG+ is what hurt it the most. I feel the constantly-decreasing health bar should've been a separate mode of some sort. That they added it the way they did essentially undercuts the entire previous playthrough to me, and that cheapens Specter's items and replayability. I'd like to be able to play NG+ casually whenever I want to, and experiment with items to learn to love them like I did with the other two, but instead I'm stuck having to start the game fresh every time - and thus missing out on using later curios in older areas - or just pick levels in a near-finished save.)
I'm confused, why does specter knight's NG+ "undercut" the first playthrough? I don't see them as even being related, and what do you mean having to start the game fresh? What's the difference between specter knight having a NG+ mode that's the same as Shovel and Plague, and just replaying old levels in a late-game save file?
I like Specter's NG+ because it does more than just give the enemies more damage, it actually changes how the game plays for a second playthrough. Normal NG+ modes usually bore me because the ways they increase difficulty are boring. Specter's NG+ kind of forces you to speedrun the game and limit your curio use to only when you absolutely need it, which I find really fun and challenging. Shovel Knight's NG+ was an absolute breeze because the phase locket is so op that the enemies having more damage doesn't even change anything.
Having a linked magic/health bar that's also constantly decreasing undercuts the game putting such a heavy weight on items in the main campaign, which kills the flow of the NG+ run for me. A separate challenge mode, a special item that specifically has that effect, any other option would've been fine, but they chose to play up the items in Specter's narrative while cutting their viability heavily in subsequent playthroughs. I can't just play New Game + by definition, so I have to level select and skip out on reliving the cutscenes (or what have you), OR start a new file and lose the actual option of picking from every item from the get-go. It's a decidedly closed-minded approach, different for the sake of being different, rather than something designed thoughtfully to fit into the rest of the game and Shovel Knight's other campaigns while being distinct.
That's true for most of Specter though, which is what hurts it most to me: The decision to sell the game separately clearly affected the level design; they went back to square one, instead of combining level gimmicks and expanding upon them. Considering that was a problem with Shovel Knight to begin with, it feels even rougher that they didn't take that feedback and use it to improve Specter. (Not to mention how easy Specter is because of how overpowered he is, which plays back into my items/NG+ issue: he's so powerful that I didn't use the items until NG+, similarly to how I played both previous campaigns, but then I was hit with the health/magic decay in NG+ which means items are ONLY viable for that first playthrough, when they're the least necessary.)
Anyway, I digress. It's not like it's a huge issue, of course! When we're talking about such a high-quality game, the little things like this are the difference between strongest and weakest. Obviously this won't affect 99% of players too, since players generally beat the game once if that. This is just for the ones like me who play the game over and over again...and then play it even more lol
Really? I used Specter Knight's items the most of the three campaigns
He has such a strong, varied moveset, and his attacks are already so quick to come out, that it was actively more time consuming to use the curios for me. I still used them to try them (after all, they have their uses in the other two campaigns!), but that plus the New Game + combining your magic with your health and adding a health decay meant that there was even _less_ incentive to use them to me.
The Golden Bolt's Game Reviews The feather and time slowing curios were awesome. So was the barrier lantern thing
This is a great video, but you have to keep in mind some items are useful for speedrunning, seeing that yacht club games knows of them. The staff of striking is good for bosses and the orb and bouncy thing in specter knights campaign are good for platforming and bosses respectively. This is a great and we'll put together video/essay type thing. I would just like you to think about different types of playing, as it seems you are thinking from one perspective, which is still fine.
Aidankirbs 665 You're right, I never really thought to look into the speedrunning side of things! In future shovel knight videos I'll be sure to do some more research into the other ways the game is played.
Not the Bees Thanks! While I don't completely agree with the points brought up, I have speedran SoT and it was so much fun. From what I have seen you have not done a video on armour unless I am dense. The rail armour is great and I suggest you find your favourite pieces of armour or least favorite. This was a great video. 🤗
Honestly, the Staff of Striking is actually one of my favorites from Plague's arsenal. Yeah, its attack range is hilariously short, but the combination of mid-air hovering for as long as you manage to chain it and the fastest DPS out of any item in the game, and it absolutely *eviscerates* airborne bosses. I can shave off half of Specter or Propeller's health with one bar of power with this thing. Saved my ass against Black Knight's final fight.
Actually, I ended up at least tolerating half of the arcana Plague had. Bait Bomb's useful for puzzles, Vat and Staff of Surging are good for recovery, and Leech Brew's good in a pinch as long as you know how to dodge. Although, in his case, you really don't need Arcana that often due to the combined benefits of the loadout(side note: who regularly uses a burst that isn't Float?).
As for Shovel Knight, I will agree on Mobile Gear, and Alchemy Coin sucks, but the others have uses. War Horn's crowd control, Flare Rod's a solid projectile, Throwing Anchor's a good piercing, Propeller Dagger's great for platforming and chaining combos, and Dust Knuckles are just *fun*. It's just fun to punch through lines of dirt piles with that thing.
Actually, Specter Knight's loadout is probably the most mixed for me, as most of the upgrades(rendered very cheap by the fact that nothing else requires currency if you're the exploring type and thus likely have a mountain of gold)pretty much eliminate most, if not all drawbacks to item usage. And honestly, only ones I used regularly were the Will Skull for pickups, the heat seeking slash attack because *oh my God that's awesome*, the shadow clone to pick up items at zero darkness cost, the hover for invincibility and platforming, and the skull sentry thing for when I want to eviscerate certain minibosses. Everything else was just too bland or too situational.
In my opinion the "Just don't use them" argument is completely valid. I know for a fact in my first run of the game I used the phase locket like twice through the whole thing. The phase locket was probably meant for little kids to have a crutch. If you use the crutch even though you know It's wrong to do so, that's on you.
It's like if you used a wheelchair ramp instead of the stairs just because you didn't feel like climbing them.
I disagree, because that analogy implies that it's clear immediately upon starting the game that items are supposed to be a crutch. If that was the intention then it should be made clear, and it isn't (See also: GMTK's video on Celeste's Assist Mode). In fact you'll only know that items are optional once you get through a majority of the game without being forced to use them, or look it up online. I only realized it in hindsight.
For example, the Invincibility Leaf in Super Mario 3D World makes you invincible forever, but only appears after you die a bunch on one level and it makes it clear with a dialog box that this is a tool to help struggling players and not the game's intended difficulty. Shovel Knight's items do not do this. They appear just like any other feature in the game and you won't know about how much they impact the game's difficulty until you've used them a lot. Hell, the first time playing, they might be mandatory for all you know, the game never tells you!
Calling me out for using the baby item when I wanted more challenge is like blindfolding me and telling me to pick a path, and then taking off the blindfold and saying "haha dummy you took the wheelchair ramp if you wanted a challenge you should have taken the stairs!" I was blindfolded how was I supposed to know that this path was so much easier?! I can go back and take the stairs now but only after having to blindly choose the first time.
Or, to put it more succinctly: Just because something is optional that doesn't make it immune to criticism.
+Hyve Minds Why bitch about something entirely OPTIONAL when you can just ignore it entirely. Just saying that given that it is optional, aren't YOU the one ruining your own fun by choosing to use them?
I know very little about Shovel Knight, but I did find your comments on how overpowered items can put a damper on the game interesting. You're incentivized to use them because they're good, so obviously you're gonna use them. That logic is why I don't like Nioh's spells.
It's the same reason I'm not a fan of the new pokemon games. They buffed the exp share so now every pokemon in your party gets a shit ton of exp for every kill, so its super easy to just show up to every gym over leveled as hell and just beat them down first try. And yeah, I COULD just not use it but that doesn't change the fact that it's THERE and that it's DUMB.
This is much more of a problem in the Gen 6 games than in Sun/Moon though. They balance the levels and difficulty in Gen 7 pretty well around the assumption you'll be using the EXP Share, so it just makes things more convenient without sacrificing challenge.
That DOES explain why I had trouble with some of the totems. I was one of the people who refused to have the exp share on at all times, but it makes a lot of sense that Gen 7 was designed around the assumption you're using the EXP share, as opposed to X&Y where there wasn't that assumption, so you just destroyed all the gyms.
You'd be surprised to see how many players just forgot that they had the phase locket because it was so powerful they didn't want to use it to skip challenges.
Surely you’d have realised the phase locket was detrimental to your experience after the first (or first few) times using it. If you made the active choice to keep using it after that point, I think that’s a problem you’ve created yourself.
4:56 - From what I've seen, speedrunners use that item every time at some point or another. But even in my own personal experience, it's one of the best ways to fight Propeller knight, because if you time the attacks JUUUUUUUUST right, you can attack each time he thrusts, and not take damage or get knocked back, which is VITAL since Plague Knight's knockback distance is RE-DICULOUS!
Fun video! I enjoyed used the Judgment Rush in the Specter Knight campaign a lot - it allows you to bypass a lot of tricky platforming, particularly in my second run-through in the difficult mode where time really matters.
Judgement Rush trivializes that annoying platforming race in the hub where you're rushing to climb that tower.
Interesting. I found the smoke bomb to be the most OP of the three in my playthrough because you get a much longer period of invulnerability and you can have it up almost 100% of the time.
Came back to this video after a year, and just now realized you still only have 4k subs. wtf? These are all so well done, you definitely deserve more.
one thing I need to say about the mobile gear is that at times there are places where I need to have another block to get up there but again that is just for treasure
Just subbed, you are completely underrated
Thanks man, much appreciated!
agree
so true
I went into shovel knight first time and started only using phase locket when I needed to
The fact that the 2 best items in the game are In the thumbnail
Great video! I completely agree with you on everything but personally I never used the phase locket during boss fights, it just never occurred to me and I just didn't use any curio often, so I ended up having a blast fighting each boss and learning their patterns and over coming them. Also, thats a very interesting fact about the mobile gear. I literally never used it and I think that was really funny that it could 1 shot tinker knight.
Since shovel of hope was spoiled for me I flat out refused to use the phase locket pretty much all the time. except when it was required and yes that means I beat plauge knight,s timed rematch in challenge mode without a phase to my name.(I still remember my brother screaming at me) Same goes for the smoke bomb and sorta the will skull (I only rarely used it).
You say the fun comes from winning, but something that helps you win detracts from the fun for you? I think you REALLY find the fun from playing, and thus it is your fault that you aren't having fun because you can choose to not use items. It's only your "it's all about winning, NOT playing" mindset that prevented you from having fun.
The fun in the game does come from playing, and from overcoming a challenge. The presence of an item that negates a large amount of that challenge, whether or not I choose to use it, cheapens the experience simply by existing. I'm not critiquing one playthrough of the game, I'm critiquing it's overall design. And I've enjoyed later playthroughs of Shovel and Plague more than I did the first time playing because I chose not to rely on items.
Like I said in the video, if a game had a "WIN GAME" button on the main menu, I probably wouldn't use it, but I would still criticize it's inclusion.
Also, never once did I say I didn't have fun with Shovel Knight. I had fun basically every moment I was playing but that doesn't make it immune to criticism, and that doesn't mean I couldn't have been having potentially MORE fun if certain things were designed differently.
Hope that all makes sense. Thanks for watching and for your comment, I'm always happy to see dissenting opinions, it helps me improve my arguments.
Hyve Minds thats what you say casul
I never really used the phase locket, I instead opted to spam the gauntlet on bosses whenever there was an opening.
A much more mature video than the first one but a little bit exclusionary. I demand speedrunner mode! :D No, I mean like for real, I guess a countless number of people already told you that the Staff of striking may be the most useful Arcana from a speedrunner standpoint. It is the only one used in the current most populat route of Plague of Shadows.
Also, I agree about the gear...mostly. Also from a speedrunner's standpoint I could say that it offers a few very interesting skips and I do not even mean the big ones but instead small skips worth a few seconds and it also hits for 1 damage instead of 0.5 which makes it pretty useful in boss battles.
Of course speedrunners are a minority but still, I think it was worth to have another point of view.
Oh...you wonder what the worst item is for me? Hmmm, well, the Caltrops. Hahahahaha. No, really, all of the items could serve you well. It totally depends on your playstyle and the way you want to play. I totally abused the Locket, Knuckles, Propeller Dagger and Hover Plume as well as the Staff of Surging and Vat. However, I think that even the Chronos Coin (of Specter) and the Coin (which is already proven to be truth by TAS Bot and a few runners) could be very useful if they fit your mentality well.
I will go ahead and mention that the arcana I remember using the most were the following
Bait bomb: good early game tool for fighting basic knights as I find most bomb powders struggle to best them until sparkler cascade and cluster
Vat: I use this to take full advantage of plague knights aerial capability
Big boom: another useful range tool for damaging enimies in ways the bait bomb or casings struggle. Also useful for specter knight.
Beserkers brew: I use it in one scenario with the attacking platforms right before the enchantress
Smoke bomb: ehh really only for spikes
Life essence: I only use it in new game plus as it’s a lifesaver once you get the pattern down
When I first used the phase locket I didn't have that much mana, and I got scared of using it, so I ended up ignoring it, even when I could bear the cost. Also I found out recently that I was using it wrong, activating it a second to early, leaving it mostly used up by the time I did what I wanted to do with it.
I personally enjoyed figuring out what situations certain items are very useful in.
For example, I rarely ever used the Horn with Shovel Knight, but it absolutely tears through his last dream sequence and that earns you a ton of money. Figuring out that interaction requires the player to be paying attention to what items do and resourceful in how to apply them, and it rewards you for doing so. By the end of the game I had certain sorts of situations in which I'd use certain items, such as the claw on annoying enemies with shields so quickly deal with them or using the bouncy orb on a boss in a way that deals a lot of damage.
It's satisfying in the same was as figuring out and countering a boss' pattern is, only this relies on the player actively using the correct item rather than reactively responding to a boss' pattern with your own attacks.
Also, I think the Smoke Bomb/Phase Locket should be counted as platforming aids since they let you circumvent instakill spikes as well as other damaging environmental hazards that hinder platforming.
Great video! It really brought a new perspective on things, that I never thought about.
I really hope you make a video on the best/worst boss in this style!
Here are MY oppinions, and remember, this is ONLY from a gameplay and game design perspective, no story /design or anything like that. Anyway, here we go!
BEST: Treasure Knight - Shovel of Hope.
Bet you didn't expect that one! Treasure Knight from Shovel of Hope is in my opinion the best designed boss in the game. His SoT counterpart is a little worse with its new attacks being a little weird and specific to dodge, but he's still great!
What makes him so good is that it's a reactionary battle; for both of you! You can manipulate TKs attack patterns by standing in certain places but you still have to react fast and be on your toes, because he might surprise you with his multiple approaches to your acctions!
WORST: Polar Knight - Shovel of Hope. Oh boy. Story? Visual design? Top freakin' notch. But, as I said, we're not talking about that. While Propeller Knight is just a bit bland, this guy seriously doesn't know what he's doing: too paternized, AND too unpredictable at the same time. The first phase is... okay... but there are so many ways to fail, and unlike Plague Knight where every hit feels (mostly) justified, this guy loves to trap you into a corner, litteraly and figuratively. Then, the kaizo, golden reflex crap you have to dodge is outright bad, getting new players and veterans alike! I see what they where going for, but, as hard it is for me to say this, noone ain't perfect, not even Yacht Club.
SPECIAL: Plague of Shadows - Plague of Shadows. SPOILERS (obviously). I just had to mention this guy: he's just goddamn GOLD. I don't know what it is about him, I just LOVE IT - yet it is a guilty pleasure. Remember Plague Knight? Well now he's stronger, and his arena more accurately matches him (it's crazy)! Now, remember Plague Knight? Well now you're playing as him! And he's just as spaztic to control as he is to fight! It all just leads to a glorious golden mess I had to mention.
NOTES: SoH and PoS:
Black Knight is... Good... I guess.
King Knight is great! Not much to say there...
Specter Knight is good, but a way to paternized.
Plague Knight is... weird... he's a... GOOD spaztic boss?! (Yes. Yes he is.)
Mole Knight is mostly good, but sadly destroyed by that fire droplet attack.
Tinker Knight could be better, but... Eh.
Propeller Knight is pretty crap... few attacks, and even then, they're not all that good: too specific...
Polar Knight is just like Propeler Knight
The Big Creep is surprisingly good!
Black Knight (Tower of Fate)
is another really good one!
Enchantress is pretty great, even if I hate her.
Remminance of Fate: A bit too boring, only one or two attacks, and admit it, the hole Shield Knight gimmick gets a little old after a while.
Plague of Shadows: HA! Just no.
Corrupted Essence: I admit it: I LOVE this boss! Every attack is greatly designed and extremely fun to dodge!
Except for that downward swipe of projectiles. It catches me off guard, and he seems to use it while I'm in the air, making me fall on it immediatly.
SoT: again... procrastination... ( And I have quite a bit of homework to do...)
KoC:
King of Pridemoor seems really good, similar to TK and CorruptedE!
Mole knight in shovel of hope is my favorite shovel knight boss because it utilizes the stages item, the dust knuckles, in such a way that you can punch through his projectile attacks making the fight more interesting and time based along side the timed jumps on top of him when he dove from wall to wall
When I was playing with Shovel, I thought that the locket was - A - not usable mid-air and - B - stoppable while its ghost animation was playing. I felt really stupid firstly, but now I think I might've done myself a favor by that.
It took me way to long to realise you could spam items like knuckle dusters to break through the row of dirt
Make an hour long documentary about the Float Burst and how it makes Plague Knight boring in EVERY possible way
Aka the Win Game Burst
I used that burst the whole way through because I am a scrub. Haha, no regrets! But yeah, it definitely negates the point of Plague Knight, being designed for much more skilled players.
ItZed At least you figured it out
There are still occasional posts on /r/ShovelKnight complaining about Plague Knight being too slow and clunky, because they're using the float burst
Have in mind that you may not have finished Plague campaign at all if it was not for the Float Burst. I guess the put it in there so that people could initially get into Plague. After getting good it is only normal to stop using it because better players will get frustrated with how slow it makes you. I myself tend to use the Screw Attack...burst mostly now and I am not good at the campaign at all. I think I have beaten it 3 times and I already have gotten good enough to drop the Float Burst.
The fact that the float burst makes plague's movements slower kinda ruins his personality. He's supposed be an insane alchemist with a fast pace.
Excellent analysis on items. I agree with the notion that those items are overpowered and that handicapping yourself to have fun again is counter intuitive.
Will look forward for more content
I didn’t even realize there were so many items I just suffered through most and probably will continue
Thank god I didn’t manage to discover phase locket the first time I played shovel knight, I managed to study patterns of the bosses and know how they work. I actually played shovel knight without any item and it was actually challenging.
For boss fights in Shovel of Hope I mostly used the green bouncing weapon and used the phase locket for Frost knight, and the Enchantress (or when I was on low health). But the real problem with that item is that the fish god has a juice that makes you invincible for ten seconds and it is made useless because of that locket.
Funny, I used the phase locket a decent amount throughout the game, and used chaos spheres (the green things) when polar knight came around. It’s like half of his health went to get milk with your dad
Instead of items you could've called them what they're called in Castlevania: Sub-Weapons.
Also, I think you forgot to mention another group of people: People who are both skilled at combat AND platforming, thus are not particularly biased toward a specific relic to help them with either. They can literally just use whatever they think is the most fun, which is exactly what I did.
And that is why Chaos Sphere, Staff of Striking, and Dread Talon are my most used relic in each campaign. Dread Talon once upgraded is just a nice way to instantly delete a troublesome enemy if you're trying to pass through quickly since it one-shots most everything, ignores defenses, and gives you super-armor so you can't be prevented from doing so. Also you can kind of use it to help you platform a little bit if you're too lazy to swap weapons since it pauses your vertical movement, and then nudges you forward a little bit.
It also tends to reap a fair bit of darkness per hit against tougher enemies.
I use the flare rod quite a bit in combat.
Funnily enough, I'm psyched for the Mobile Gear's application in Rivals of Aether, where it's going to be an amazing Neutral tool for Shovel knight where he forces foes to jump over it or such.
Personally, I didn't have many problems with items being overpowered for the simple fact that I sort of "challenged" myself to not use them that much.
With Shovel, I often just used the fire rod to attack a bit from a distance, and that's it
With Plague, I found myself often using the big bomb for double damage and outrageous range
With Specter, I spammed the skull at first (remember tough that specter's campaign has less food than the others) and, when I got familiar with the controls, I started using the Spider sickle for how strong it is when upgraded (but it still requires a bit of skill for good placement, or you won't get more than 1 hit with it)
For King, I often used the glove for fast damage, the horns when i didn't know what to use but still wanted some extra damage.
Having said that, I can see how some items aren't well balanced and become too powerful, but it's really just an easy getaway to avoid rage-quitting because of harder parts.
Nice video! Have you already done a video about the bosses? If not, please make it! I would be incredebly interested!!!
I loved the bouncy ball and considered him a battle companion for Shovel's story, I never realized how easy it was to manipulate the gear but would use it to give higher jumps at times. For Plague, I relied on the Leech Liquid a lot, as I typically only used the potion things when I couldn't collect more. As for Specter, well... I guess I used the float feather and rush attack more often than others.
I hated using the Dust Knuckles, the staff attack, and the wall bouncing soul.
I didn't know the Mobile gear could one shot Tinker knight.
Glad someone learned *something* from my ramblings
It’s interesting to see this. I honestly almost never used the phase locket or any of the other similar items in the other campaigns. I think it’s because as an item and as a utility, I wasn’t nearly as interested in it as I was the other items. I always favored the ones that offered some new form of mobility or an attacking item with a unique range or attribute. I understand now that I probably made the campaigns much harder on myself for not exploiting the phase locket or will skull, but I played in a way that made the most sense to me.
Certain items are actually REALLY good, but your standard loadout is just way better. The Staff of Striking actually has insane DPS if you can get close enough.
Nich White Very true, pretty much every item has SOME case where it's useful, which is why I added "too specific" as another reason for an item to be category 1. It all comes back to items being optional. Yeah, I COULD use the barrier lantern to block this lava drip... Or I could just wait half a second.
Yeah man, I use the Staff of Striking and have taken half the health of many bosses with it almost instantly. That item is INSANE
+Hyve Minds I just use the barrier lantern to skip that bullet hell section in the last level
Shovel Knight is my favorite game so i just had to watch this video. I like that you mentioned that the items being this way is fine, but you'd have more fun if it were more challenging - that's straight up good presentation. Also i like how you separated the video in chapters. And yea, the gear is the worst item.
I actually had to use Phase Locket to traverse a gap where the enemy that gave me a boost wouldn’t appear for some reason, since I didn’t have the Propeller Dagger. (I was in Propeller Knight’s stage on the screen after the second point.)
Please do more shovel Knight videos, I find them very interesting and fun to watch. Good video BTW.
More in the works!
I didn't use the Alchemy Coin very much.
What if the phase locket didnt let you attack?
Fish-bomb and fishing pole give you endless health--- super powerful. The Alchemy Coin does double-damage and can be re-shot at the enemy endless times for no extra mana-cost. SUPER-POWERFUL!! The digging-gauntlet may be hard to land a shot with, but since it grants you invulverability, it means that it can allow you chain combos. It is SUPER POWERFUL. The staff of striking gives PlaK a melee attack that is faster than any other knight's! SUPER USEFUL!!
I went through my first playthrough not knowing about the power of the phase locket. Huh, geuss im better than I though I was.
2- This means freedom of player choice. Do you really want to be forced to wield 7 or 8 spells and understand their mechanics? Oh, OK. That was just to preface 3...
3- There's also ShK's Mobile Gear, which is much faster than the PD. Super useful for running through towns, or for navigating spikey rooms carefree. It could even be used to get through most of the forest of phasing. It's true that the shovel/scythe/bomb gets the job done, but magic makes things faster, more dynamic, and more fun.
Honestly, the Leeching Liquid and Berserker's Brew were very well-intentioned attempts at the "Phase Locket" type item.
The Leeching Liquid can reward you with potentially HUGE amounts of health, but you need to hit your bombs. It's a real risk-reward item, but it is limited, as you said, by how many heals Plague of Shadows throw at you.
Berserker's Brew is extremely cool, because it is a phase locket that ONLY works on contact damage, and not other sources, which means that it doesn't just shred bosses. It even offers a fun risk-reward by allowing you to damage enemies by touching them, which can turn fights into a question of "should I go in for another hit, or stay back so my brew doesn't wear off at a bad time".
TLDR, Plague of Shadows has my personal favorite spread of Sub weapons.
I didn't use the phase locket at all in my first playthrough of shovel knight, because it thought that the cost was too much. I didn't really use the items in shovel of hope that much and went mostly vanilla, despite buying or finding all of them. It was a pretty great experience anyway.
At first, I missed the Phase Locket, and RIGHT BEFORE I had to battle the Enchantress, I went back to the Lich Yard and got it
The phase locket is a difficult situation for me. While I see that it is very overpowered, I absolutely suck at using it, and usually refer to the flare wand and chaos orb instead. The alchemy coin doesn’t exactly seem like an item to use conventionally. I personally found it very useful for grinding in Plains (which I did quite a bit. To the point that I have all three Plains memorized quite well)
Another item that kinda sucks is the war horn. While it seems useful on paper, it costs so much magic that I never used it, except for the duet in the airship.
In terms of plague knight, the staff of striking it useless in the main stages. But I found it damn near essential for the final boss. Also the potions. They just suck.
Specter knight’s will skull didn’t exactly ruin the experience for me. But that’s probably cause I suck at games. And I didn’t realize how stupidly OP the skele sentry was until after I beat the main game.
Let’s just hope that king knight’s heirlooms are useful, but not too OP.
Alright, so here's the Heirlooms that King of Cards brings:
- *Healing Hammer:* A slow hammer attack that draws out a heart
- *Propeller Jousteed:* A conveniently cheap piercing projectile.
- *Rat Bombardier:* A rat that carries a fairly strong bomb. Can be redirected or bashed away.
- *Dueling Glove:* Fast close-range attack with a cheap cost.
- *Turn Coat:* Barrier that blocks attacks and in turn fires projectiles.
- *Bubble Frog:* Suspends King Knight in a bubble that he can bash out of.
- *Scepter of Swiftness:* A strong rushing attack that can go a long way.
- *Scorching Saber:* A rising attack that slams down with a fiery shockwave.
- *Gyro Boots:* Makes King Knight spin for a while, hopping up against walls on contact.
- *Horns of Heralding:* Shoots confetti that damages foes and reclaims lost gold.
Also Turn Coat is the most broken one. It's literally an invicibility item but for each attack the enemy do to you, you get to counterattack harder.
I just recently bought Shovel Knight Treasure Trove, and while I am seasoned gamer, Specter of Torment had me raging because of the Specter Knight's movement. The wall climb felt like it happened whenever it wanted to, and the ability to fling yourself off of objects and enemies, was at times locking onto the wrong targets. Nothing like throwing yourself into a bottomless pit over and over again because of a random projectile or Specter not wanting to let go of a ledge the right way. I was so happy to get the hover and judgement skills.
It's interesting that most of the reasons you dislike the items, I feel in love with them. Most items I've found have a specific level or instance where they make gameplay slightly easier for the player, but not outright so. If you're a newer player who finds platforming games difficult, you may rely on them (Which I don't believe you focused on enough in your video), but if you're an experienced player, then you can breeze through without the items. It's the perfect balance. At the very least, I greatly appreciate you never using the term objective throughout your review, and that you kept things very opinionated and allowed room for others opinions as well! Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching and I appreciate the comment! But in response to your point, I don't think that is a perfect balance. Maybe as a more skilled player I'd also like to use items without feeling like I'm getting a watered down, too easy experience. It's another reason I don't like when people tell me "if you don't like it don't use it." Well maybe I WANT to use it but the way it's designed lessens the fun for me.
And yeah, I'm of the mindset that any discussion of a game is inherently subjective and trying to be objective is usually pretty pointless.
When I first played new game plus and beat the first boss in the boss rush stage and opened the food tray and saw a bomb, I knew I'd be spamming the phase locket and smoke bomb a lot.
Yeah but... You can use the mobile gear to beat Forest of Phasing without using the Phase Locket. That's pretty cool, imo.
Honestly, I found the soul skull to be a lot more fun and intuitive than you'd think. I used it not just as a healing item- but as an air-staller and a way to get through difficult platforming sections.
Yeah, I used the phase locket and will skull in a similar way on occasion. But the hover plume is just straight up better for helping with platforming. Most of the time I had hover plume during the level and then immediately switched to will skull for bosses.
7:15
And that’s why we used to have cheat codes
I think the point you made at around 10:00 is the best case for the items in the game. Without them, it would be hard for some people to beat the game. I didn't use the phase locket much, but you better believe I used a bunch of other items.
I think the phase locket would be better if you couldn't attack while using it and costed more mana
I actually agree with some of the stuff you said. I think this game compares to castlevania 4 where you don’t actually use items. In Castlevania 4 you mainly just use your whip cause you get 8 directions to choose from, so there’s really no certainty to use that knife or axe to use hearts on because your just as powerful.
Phase locket doesn't break Shovel Knight, it improves it.
I actually never used the phase locket too much in the main story. Only for a few screens in the Explodatorium and on Polar Knight's boss fight. That's probably a reason I thought the campaign was fairly difficult from beginning to end.
i used the smoke bomb twice during the whole campain
i only used the will skull when i was at like 1 health and sometime just to get to max health for bonuses
the phase locked i used the most, but still i only used it in rare situations where, for example, last fight with the enchantress where she does the atack that goes through the entire screen while shield knight is on the other side of the room
i think i neglected most of the items because i felt like running out of magic was way worse than it actually is
I watched this video and was amazed that you only had 791 subs! You just earned another one
There’s no “No Curio Run” achievement for Spectre Knight because you will get a curio once you start the flashback levels. The Caltrops, while an optional pickup in the first flashback, is given to you during the second one, and since you can’t skip the flashback levels it would be impossible to not have any curios at the end of the game.
I don't necessarily agree with your view on the will skull tbh. Sure, it can be overpowered when it comes to bosses, but that's not the whole game. It's not an automatic win the game button like you compared it to. You can still die while using it, whether it be falling down a pit in a stage or certain boss fights, or not being able to use it fast enough.
The phase locket does more or less fit that description, though, as the only thing that can kill you while using it is pits if I'm correct? If they even can? I'm not sure, I never used it until going back for music sheets. That was a while ago.
I do think it's a bit unfair to judge them for being overpowered if, like you mentioned in the video, they're completely optional. There's a difference between applying house rules and choosing not to spam an overpowered item if you don't like it. If they break the game so much you can, again, choose not to use them, or only use them in a pinch. Keeps the challenge to the game completely by your own choice.
And, keep in mind, there are some people(myself included) who like making the game easier in those ways; whether it be they are just unskilled or just like playing for fun. In my case it's kinda a mix of both, I'll admit.
I dunno, video was ok even if I didn't agree with it entirely.
The win game button is just an analogy. I'm not actually comparing these items to a win game button, I'm using it as a hypothetical to show that just because something is optional that doesn't make it immune to criticism. Admittedly, I could have gone into more detail in that section and phrased things better so people wouldn't get so hung up on that particular line.
Good analysis - I like how you touched on your opinion of how items could have been handled better, but also that you recognized the possible reason behind why it was done the way it was, to be a more accessible game to the largest audience. From my perspective I'm not a very skilled gamer so the items are helpful for me for the platforming where I don't have to worry as much about being attacked, but at the same time I'm a spaz so I'm not as coordinated at using the items and end up just doing without them in boss fights where I need to worry about being targeted. Interesting.
Also "opined" lol.
hey, what's wrong with opined!?
First off, amazing video! I enjoyed listening to your argument and it really got me thinking about the items in Shovel Knight and made me realize that they definitely do fall into those 2 categories you mentioned. It wasn't until I started trying to speed run the game (for the achievement and for fun) that I really got an appreciation for the level design and how intricate some of the platforming can be without skipping the difficult parts via propeller dagger or phase locket. Honestly to me my favorite item ended up being the chaos orb, which I find is a semi-decent medium between useless an overpowered. My first play through I never bothered to use it and didn't think much of it. It wasn't until speed running that its potential really became clear. Although its use can be very niche, when it becomes useful it's extremely powerful, especially in boss battles. Honestly it's a bit too good on bosses, but there are a lot of parts in levels where a well placed Chaos Orb can take care of 2-3 annoying enemies. I don't know. Just my two cents. Either way I think you're correct. Shovel Knights fun can definitely be undercut by its items if you let it. (That's not to say it isn't fun at all, I extremely enjoyed my first play through of the game, but to say it withholds it from its max potential).
Thanks, I'm glad you enjoyed the video! You're one of several people to mention that speedrunning the game changed your outlook on it, which I find fascinating. Speedrunning is always something I've enjoyed watching but never felt I had the skill to do myself, but your comment really makes me want to try it. I at least want to see if I can go fast enough to get the Hurry Up! feat but I feel like I might end up just abusing the items again. Depends how it's routed I suppose.
You really should! It's not really too hard, you just need to make sure you break enough checkpoints to buy the required items and not die when you have no checkpoints lol. If you just want the hurry up achievement, you can actually have quite a few deaths and still get it.
Personally i think the items are perfect the way they are, if you arnt skilled, then you have the choice to decide to get good on your own or have help, and same for skilled players, uf you want a challenge. Why complain about something that isint ment for you?
I found that the leech liquid was especially useful during the final boss of plague of Shadows, mainly because I ran out of Health tonics LMAO
12:05
...
tinker knight: did you just killed me with my own attack?
tinker knight: this doesn't count right/ *surely this doesn't count.*
tinker knight: that's does it *TIME TO DIE!*
*mech intesefy*
@Adam Senzai LOL
To be honest, I ended up never using the Phase Locket and using extremely rarely the Will Skull. I see them as items created to help you go through parts of levels or boss fights that you just can't understand, to avoid you raging for hours because you don't understand the timing etc. It never really occurred to me that you could use them to cheese entire levels, and I think that they were intended to be so obviously powerful that players, by themselves, could understand that they were not meant to be used as regularly as the Anchor, the Boomerang Scythe etc.
Phase locket and Will Skull was my favorite items :P Since they were so useful, so I liked them alot, they were too good to pass up on
The Staff of Striking can be BRUTAL if you mash the button, it helped me a lot when i played Plague of Shadows
When I was playing I completely forgot about the mobile gear in my first safe file so I had some challenge
I never really used the phase locket. It kind of threw off my flow when I used it because of the momentary screen freezing and then fighting my urge to dodge things for a moment while also trying to be aware of how long it will last. It was just easier for me to dodge on my own. xD
When I first played shovel knights campaign I didn’t realize the phase locket being overpowered most of the items I didn’t use because I was trying to save Mana I really only used it when I got in a serious challenge even durning the final boss fight I kind of forgot some of the items existed I really enjoyed the video good job.
i only used the vat for Plague Knight, ooooh boy i was falling into cliffs like nobody's busyness till i got the Ward Guard (no pushback when taking damage) plus the Vat (instant platform to charge the burst jump) and the Floating feature on the burst jump just in case XD
Before I got the will skull I fought polar knight and I was freaking raging and I also had to figure out his attack pattern
I didn't even know what the phase locket did on my first playthrough
"by that logic it would be okay to put a button that one hundred percents the game in the menu"
has it really been so long people forgot what cheat codes are?
Arent there like hundreds or even thousands of cheat codes of shovell knight
@@dragonusmolamola4140 yeah that makes it even sillier tbh. Like, by his logic he should be using every code he knows every game since not using them in an artificial handicap
cheat codes are outside of the primary intended experience, they're literally called _cheat_ codes. The Phase Locket is in the main game and very abusable
I played megaman a lot and mapped my key according to that game almost always and used propeller dagger as replacement for dash. That made the game a lot fun for me and honestly completely broke the final phase of the last boss. I used that and phase almost exclusively.
Concerning the "don't like it don't use it" argument, the biggest problem I have with it is: That same item that I don't want to use...could have been an item that I DID want to use. The Phase Locket could have been an item that didn't feel like a cheap win, the will skull could have been an item that was much more interesting to use instead.
I feel it's fair to criticize even that which is optional, because of what it could have been instead.
Very well said.
I just wish you could deactivate certain items, change their cycle order, or map different ones to different buttons. The cycling became a hindrance my first playthrough because half the items I didn't use.