Mailbag: Did we OVERRATE Jokic? Anthony Edwards wild potential, Wolves-Nuggets over? | Hoops Tonight
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- Jason Timpf answers listener questions during an NBA Mailbag segment. Jason discusses why we have not overrated Nikola Jokic as one of the best players in NBA history, despite his disappointing playoff performances in the Nuggets series vs. Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves. Later, Jason breaks down what the Los Angeles Lakers must do this offseason to return to championship status and who LeBron James could join to increase his chances of winning another title. Jason continues by discussing his expectations for Timberwolves-Nuggets Game 3, how this series could impact Jokic and Denver's legacy, and whether the Wolves defense is the best he's seen in recent memory.
Timeline:
00:00 - Introduction
01:45 - We have NOT overrated Jokic
06:45 - Jokic defense must improve
07:38 - What music does Jason enjoy?
09:54 - How Lakers improve this offseason
17:00 - Who LeBron should join to win championship
18:46 - Will Clippers move on from Kawhi Leonard?
19:30 - Should NBA have suspended Jamal Murray?
20:34 - Have Wolves changed roster construction mentality in NBA?
20:58 - 3 Skills to look for in prospects
22:17 - Will Nuggets show fight in Game 3?
23:36 - Are Jokic & Nuggets ruining their legacy?
26:50 - Could NBA players play in the NFL?
28:35 - Why Jokic peak is still the best ever
29:36 - Is Wolves defense the best in recent memory?
30:37 - Jokic or Anthony Edwards best player in world?
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Overrate Jokic? No. Underrate the Wolves? YES.
WILDLY OVERRATED JOKIC. How does an "all-time great" get Bullied by 6th Man of the Year??? Jokic is a great passer in the new wide open lane and spread floor. He has I would say earned his MVPs. But when you try to imagine him playing against actual ALL-TIME GREATS, and you watch NAZ REID dismantle him, just imagine what Shaq, Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, even Robert Parrish would do to him. Jokic is the playing the EASIEST and WEAKEST era for Bigs in NBA history. And he has made the most of it. Hats off to him.
Yup. Wolves are dmn good. Everyone is surprise in the playoffs cuz no one watches them in the regular season. They been this team. True ballheads know
That's a good point. It's really hard to put into context what's happening to the Nuggets because we don't know how good the Twolves will finish this playoff run.
If the Twolves just destroy the rest of the league in the WCF and Finals and become champs then we will probably give the Nuggets some slack. On the other hand if the Twolves lose to Dallas or the Thunders then that will really hurt what we though of Jokic and the Nuggets
@@TheGreatness-gg1jx 📠 got stopped by SLO-Mo also, imagine him playing in the 2000s when he had a bruiser going against him every night. KG, Webber, Dwight, Mutumbo, Sheed, JOneal, ZBO, Ben Wallace, Yao, Duncan, Robinson, Pau, Amare Antonio Davis Dale Davis PJ brown Boozer etc, dude would tire out by the end of the season
This entire thread is pure blasphemy
No Jokic is not overrated
He very overrated. Dont play no defense at all. Dude got mvp as low seeds when there was honestly a couple better options
@@franknatti5367 I can understand it if he won it once, but he won it 3 TIMES. At this point is there really a better option?
Depends on how you rate him. I still put him above guys like Durant , but he's not knocking on the door of guys like Olajuwon and Shaq anymore.
Last yr, Giannis averaged 31, 11 and 5.4 assists. Khris Middleton missed 50 games. The Bucks had the best overall record while Denver was ranked 4th in the seeding. Jockic also avenged 24, 11, and 9.8 assists but he was voted the MVP over Giannis. This yr, Giannis made a history as the only player ever to put up 30 points on 61% shooting but that doesnt matter right? Damian Lillard also been a big problem for the Bucks. Giannis had to play defense, scored and keep the Bucks together. Jokic has Jamal Murray, Michael Porter Jr who as been incredible, Gordon was is a great defender, KCP who is a good defender and Reggie Jackson whi can score and defend as well. Has is Jokic the MVP over Giannis?
Yes he is. Can’t BITW and ass on defense
Timberwolves beat them so bad people started questioning a 3 time mvp's legacy
They literally changed the rules and effectively the game mid-season drastically helping physical teams and defense in general and now they want to call the man overrated?
SGA should have won this year... that's a fact im glad the wolves making the mvp voters look like morons
@@Swervedaplumberyour saltiness is beautiful to see. I love your pain. Love it 💯💯💯💯💯😉🤫
@@Swervedaplumbersalt oh my god😭keep crying brother. It’s amazing to see💯
They also question a 4 times champion/FMVP and 10 times NBA finalists's legacy. That's Just a show. People need things to say. Coherence is not a requirement.
I’m a Wolves fan and think it’s ridiculous to call Jokic overrated. What you are seeing is one of the best defenses ever exposing the rest of the Nuggets. Jokic is literally the only guy on the Nuggets that can create his own offense. The rest of the team relies on Jokic to create a gravity field towards himself allowing them to have a much easier time getting open shots.
Throughout the year, the difference between Jokic having historic efficiency and just really good efficiency is Jamal playing alongside him. It's going to be even more noticible in the playoffs (especially when playing against likely a top 3 defense ever). When Jamal is playing like the 2nd coming of Killian Hayes, it makes it very hard for Denver to actually play basketball... let alone Jokic be able to beat the defense alone.
Bro the man had 16 points in a must win yet hes creating his offense 😂
@@reggiemoore21 down 1-0 going into game 2 is hardly a "must win"
That’s a lie. Jokic gets open floaters & jumpers cuz of Murray’s gravity coming off screens. Since Murray can’t get separation everyone else is struggling to get good looks
Murray needs to know when he’s off. If you’re a PG that can’t create for others when you shots don’t fall then you’re a detriment to your team.
"the dream would be Andre Drummond". Never in my life did I thought I would hear those words. Lol
Jokic carrying a team to the championship with no All-Stars is undeniable. Anyone not recognizing that as a amazing feat doesn’t have a clue what it takes to win a championship.
Number of all stars doesn’t mean that much. It’s the overall construction of the team; besides Murray in past playoffs has played like a second team all nba player.
@@mattschurenko3032 Then how come it hasn't been done before? Jokić is the only MVP to never have had an All-Star, All-NBA or All-Defense teammate, and led his team to a championship. Jokic makes everyone around him better, yes he isn't playing as good as last year and yes Minnesota is doing well against him, no doubt about it, but overrated, hell no. All-stars do play a role how a team will perform on average, Stop the cap.
@@ChaoticJiggle there’s always an exception to every rule and Murray in the playoffs is that exception. You can’t tell me he wasn’t an elite player in last year’s playoffs.
Pump brakes there, All-Stars is a popularity contest, Murray last year played good enough to be a teams first option
@@mattschurenko3032 I agree Murray should be an all star, but he is a borderline all star, yes he elevates in the playoffs. But if Murray didn't have Jokic for their two-man game we wouldn't know how good Murray could play. But we do know how Jokic could play without Murray. Jokic has already proven he can take them to ECF. Yes I believe Murray is an all-star, but the point still stands. No All-Stars that's just how it is, but even then no ALL NBA, no ALL DEFENSE, yes Jokic isn't as good as last year, but overrated cmon now 🤣
The Guy has won 3 MVP’s and a Finals MVP in the last 4 years, while doing things NO ONE else has ever done in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE. And he’s done it all without a having a single teammate who’s been an All Star. He has to prove nothing to no one. 😂
15,000+ PTS
8,000+ REB
5,000+ AST
1x Finals MVP
3x Season MVP
He’s the only player in the history of the NBA to reach each of those milestones before turning 30 years old. Did we over rate him?
Jason needs content, I guess. 🙄 So he’s going to call the best player in the world overrated.
@@ksanauhrich1098 So much watching what he actually had to say about it huh?
@@ksanauhrich1098u look so goofy watch the video first lol
Shameful!!! 🤮😤
Yes I believe in jokic but he's not the best in the world please 😂😂😂
We overrated the supporting cast. As a denver fan, the group fits very well but lets not pretend this group even makes the playoffs without him.
AG gets shut down without a consistent jumper vs size, KCP is a hustle guy but primarily a spot up shooter, Jamal is literally never healthy. MPJ is the one bright spot but he only scores off screens and after the defense has already collapsed and he can pump fake and go.
I think in general people were sleeping on MIN. DPOY center with what most people agree is the best perimeter defender in the league. The ONLY point of contention with them was their offence, but with Ant making a jump in the post season, there are no questions to me. They are most definitely in the "can win a chip now" tier
Jamal is a solid #2 and the role players fill crucial needs. I think they’re a legit championship team but not an early dynasty
So it's jokic he should be able to play with gp3 and still do his thing if your the best in the world f the supporting cast kobe never cared about who the supporting cast was he just took over games can jokic do that he'll nah he needs a supporting cast 😂😂😂
As a Wolves fan, I honestly was not worried at all in game 2 when Aaron Gordon could not miss at the beginning of the game because I knew that’s not his game and it wasn’t sustainable.
The goal posts get moved on Jokic to discredit anything he does
Maybe because he’s white?
@@michaelshanahan4965 absolutely why
@@michaelshanahan4965 I pretty sure Jason is white
I think it's holding him accountable if it was lebron bro would be getting murdered prime Bron not 39
@benjaminbrown9459 Can't give him a 3rd mvp because he hasn't won a chip. He wins his chip and finals mvp. Minnesota was built to stop the nuggets by the same man who built the nuggets.
It takes 3 7 footers and 2 no.1 picks to defend Joker…He is not overrated.
2 7 footers, naz Reid is not 7ft 😂but good point tho
And it took the whole dam team to stop Shaq stopppp
@@therealkrisrose7982 and four all stars in their prime to beat bron
Who’s the 3rd 7 footer? I’m a Wolves fan. We have Rudy and KAT. I think the next tallest is Jaden McDaniels and Naz Reid at 6’9 (both of them).
@@okeythegoat2332Not 7ft but has basically the same wingspan as KAT
2 weeks ago this story about Jokic was totally opposite
That’s what being overrated looks like. “Dynasty” “he’s better than Shaq/Duncan /Hakeem ” with only 1 ring
One of the annoying parts about the playoffs is the narrative every game is the team should be broken up if they lost the last game and they are a dynasty if they won it.
Yup and if the nuggets were somehow to win the series they would suddenly start talking about how they always knew joker was gonna get it done.
Flat out disagree with you on Jamal Murray. No suspension may not set a dangerous precedent, because that kind bs was basically non-existent in the NBA until now, but a fine simply is not enough here. He needs to see his inability to control his emotions in that moment have a profoundly negative effect on his team.
Showed his maturity at that moment
That’s just it for me. Earlier this season, Rudy Gobert was fined $100k for making the money gesture to the officials. That set a precedent. By this fine, the NBA is basically saying that the towel throw and the heat pack throw were basically worth nothing. I know he missed (like he missed just about everything else Monday night), but this was an extremely dangerous act that could have (and thankfully didn’t) resulted in a serious injury. If you or I would’ve done something like that at an NBA game, we would have been ejected and almost certainly banned for life. Also, I don’t think $100k was nearly enough to send a message, especially since that’s all they did. In terms of fine to annual salary ratio, this was the equivalent of someone making $60k a year getting fined approximately $180. This is nothing more than a slap on the wrist.
Now, as a Wolves fan, I agree that I want to beat the Nuggets with Murray on the court. With the way he’s looked in this series, it might have been better for Denver if they were forced to sit him for a game 🤷♂️
@@aaronkrause7595 I could be wrong, but someone online mentioned that 100k is the max for fines.
Should have been suspended one game
@@MrKurbek if that is true, and I have no reason to believe it isn’t, then fine, but then you have to suspend him, playoffs be damned.
You deserve so many more followers. Great breakdowns. Keep up the good work!
Love the show!! Still remember when you started the channel in the summer you said "hope to get this to 10k by the end of the season". Huge congrats 👏🏻.
Would love to see you with Nick wright on a Pod, think he's a little wild but has good analysis. Maybe Colin could arrange that?
Also dream pod would be you and JJ.
Keep growing and crushing it!
This wolves team has historically great defense. Any other team would’ve suffered the same fate.
I think OKC and Boston have the roster to beat Minnesota but if the refs let Minnesota bully OKC and if Tatum doesn't get it together they will lose
@@Christopher._Mwolves are better than both
@@Christopher._M The Celtics r actually better with tatum.not being what he has in the past
@@bpina2170How is it conclusive that the Wolves are better than both, especially the Celtics?
@@bpina2170You're basing that off their matchup against Denver. Different matchups, different problems against those other teams.
I've talked trash once or twice when i thought you were being unfair to the Wolves. I do really like your content and you've made me a smarter basketball fan. So Thank You
No we haven't overrated Jokic. Media pundits who are on his jock overrated him
Mailbag Question: Hey jason I've been watching your show since it was part of the colin's show on volume and i love and enjoy every part of your analysis.
So my question is with the gap between talent getting lesser every year do you think that the value of a top tier super star is diminish?
Like before having a top seven player was the first step to win a championship now even if you have a guy between 8 to 20 who can match those superstar shot for shot and you have a better cast around that lowere level player its still good enough maybe more viable due to the new cba.
We've seen so many example of this with boston, heat knick, wolves even okc. Nobody has figured it out yet but the teams like boston, Minnesota and okc are the closest we've seen to perfect this formula. What are your thoughts on this take
The fact is that you have been claiming Jokic is BY FAR the best player in the world and that was absolutely overrating him.
It would be very fun to see a practice or game of the kids Jason coaches, not only for the things they learn from him, but also to see all those moms drooling over the coach 😅. Jason is the best basketball analyst these days.
MAILBAG QUESTION: I really enjoyed your Lakers offseason outlook. Curious what you think the Warriors should be prioritizing this offseason and what the ideal moves look like for them? Thanks so much love the show.
Hey Jason love your content but why do you value jokic well above Giannis? If it’s because of availability then I understand but if not can you explain. You just said 2022 Celtics is just a notch unde this wolves defense and Giannis had to face that for 7 games and never put up that sorry effort like jokic, offensively or defensively. Would love to hear your thoughts.
i like the question abt roster construction - you need 5 guys that do everything meaning : two-way, dribble-pass-shoot, w the qualities jason mentioned - size, strength, athleticism, physicality, toughness
ive always thought den falls short of that criteria relative to bos okc n min
Currently the only statistical difference between Tatum and Ant is that Ant is making his PU and Tatum misses them. This is a sample of 6 games as oppose to the entire season (and career) where Tatum was better. Is this 6 game sample enough to for you to say that Ant is better or are you jumping on the opportunity to diminish Tatum?
There is a bit of the eye test as well going on. Ant just looks a bit better by his game movements and creativity
You cannot build a culture when there is a old star with a big ego on your roster. He vetoes your play calls, and won't show up to practice half the time because he's old and needs to load manage.
The problem is the media. The media are too easily influenced by the most recent events, drawing absurd conclusions from a single game. Unfortunately as fans, we've grown accustomed to it.
Jason, how can we say ant is better than tatum when tatum is only 19?
Nikola Jokic is the Lionfish of the NBA. He capitalized on an NBA that had no natural predators for him. As the league shifts to more post defenders he will be significantly diminished. That’s not meant to takeaway from how great he is but more to encapsulate why he was so dominant so fast and why it’s looking challenged so quickly.
Jokic is an all-time great, but people got WAY too excited and started lauding him as a top 10 player, “the best offensive player ever,” the Nuggets a dynasty, etc. He had a great championship run last year, albeit against four teams who all had less than 46 wins, but I think we should wait a few more seasons before anointing him & the Nuggets.
Tbh I didn't expect ANT to be this polished
Exactly 1 championship now im hearing “best offensive player ever” like the fuck dirk won a chip also didnt hear all this bullshit
dude the Nuggets and the Grizzlies were the ONLY teams in the west that had 50+ wins, would them beating the Grizzlies which the Lakers beat convincingly in the first round solidify their run more? that 50+ wins take is retarded if you don't see the scope of the whole playoffs in that year.
So Jokic is to blame for Jamal Murray being the WORST player in the playoffs? Or Denver Nuggets being THE WORST 3pt shooting team in the playoffs?
What is he suposted to do? Shoot over double teams?😂😂😂
The fact that he won a championship before ever playing with All Star teammate(when was the last time you saw that) tell me that he is UNDERRATED!
You put any other superstar on that LIMITED team and they don't even make the playoffs!
@@realone296Lebron has won championships with situations like that 😂
Mailbag question - thanks for all the fantastic content all season and especially during the playoffs! Q1 - do you think the change in officiating put the full court press on the table as a viable NBA strategy? Q2 - don’t the Nuggets need to respond to the Wolves’ full court press by answering in kind? I’m hearing a lot about “fight” and “heart” and “effort,” and my favorite platitude, “play better.” Seems to me like what they need is a strategy shift by giving the Wolves the same disruption. If they’re going to hold us to 80, we have to hold them to 75. Thanks!
No players with Jokics achievements would get a free pass like he seems to be getting rn
Best nba analysis out there
When you ignore defense, you would get a 3 time mvp with 1 ring.
Jason talked after the 2nd game about how the referees have completely changed the way they are calling the game. This looks like NBA basketball from the 80’s and 90’s.
Teams like the Knicks and t wolves benefit from.that
I dont think Jokic is overrated but he clearly doesnt have the same motor or drive other mvps have. This year feels like he wants the season to be over so he can go back to Serbia and be with his family and horses.
When people started saying Jokic might be better than prime Shaq….he started becoming overrated
Curry always got questioned about if he could play in a more physical era. My question is did Jokic have the advantage of coming along when everyone was trying to perfect their “small ball “ lineups?
There are some old players saying he could
Nuggets have been praising the Twolves since last season, emphasizing that it was their toughest match, while everyone underestimated the Twolves. Now suddenly after two games, when the Nuggets are straggling, everyone "open eyes", and trowing shit through Nuggets and Nikola.
Yeah because the best player in the world should be able to overcome .pretty simple 😂😂
Jokic will bounce back but the other players will need to be great, which I don't see happening.
The losses to the Timberwolves may have had people doubt Jokic's greatness but it was Murray's antics that definitely turned other teams' fans into Timberwolves fans.
It took 3 years for Jokic to finally get praise. And the moment he's down 0-2, NOT EVEN LOST THE SERIES YET, you bums want to instantly move on to another player?
One thing I regret John Madden never doing was getting a team to sit him down and produce a series of vids on understanding the game - beginner (like for a European audience new to the game), intermediate (US casual fans), and advanced, given how intricate and jargon-drenched football is (George Orwell’s comments on language and jargon come to mind...)
Anyway, same can be said for basketball. Would love to see you consider such a project.
One title. Bad on defense. Hasn’t beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs yet. Great player but nothing makes him head and shoulders above Giannis at this point in time. If he ends up with 4-5 MVPs it’s going to look stupid historically but it won’t matter. If he loses to Wolves this year he won’t be criticized by most media members.
Look stupid historically? Let me guess, you'd rather he bounce around the NBA making super teams for his legacy?
@@MikeMike-qb6oy not sure how you got to this point. At this point he doesn’t stack up with anyone on the list with 3 career mvps in terms of titles, dominance or overall play. It’s a bad look historically if he doesn’t win at least two more titles .
And he won’t be winning two or more titles because he won’t even be in the league in three years. Before last years win we watched Jokic be lazy, temperamental, and a loser in the playoffs. He is complacent and all of that is coming back until he quits in like three years. He is done.
Awww shiit, my music mailbag question at 7:40
Very nice, very nice, saw all the people you listed at some point except Marcus King. Dead and Co on the "final" tour Fenway, ABB at All Good 2012, Gary Clark Jr at Freshgrass 2022, Warren Haynes a couple times with Govt Mule and most recently Derek Trucks with Phish at SPAC a few months ago. If improv is your thing, imo Phish still the best out there- google 12/31/93 Harry Hood and listen with headphones, the last 3+ minutes are my favorite guitar solo of all time.
I gotta say you always have a fair, never over reacting take. Even when I don’t agree. The media flips out anytime there is an opportunity to get views. “The joker” is done, nuggets are “ish”. The Joker’s had all of what, a week or two of poor play over the last 3 years. The timing wasn’t ideal this year but let’s not make a mountain out of a mohill. I bet the series is 2-1 after tonight. One more nuggs win in Minny and the series is tied up going back to Denver. Or maybe the nuggs lose, but a bad series is not tue end of their legacy.
That is one minty fresh t-shirt!
I think media did slightly overrate Jokic because they did not meet a team last year who could punish the Nuggets gimmicky defense built around hiding Jokic. His main weakness is that he turns into a traffic cone against an elite perimeter threat. That's why he got cooked by curry, was struggling against Suns last year even though they had way more talent and now can't do anything to stop Ant. He has an obvious flaw you can attack with right personell and everyone kinda forgot about it.
Jason you literally just named all my faborite bands... Check out Joe Russos Almost Dead, youd love em
I’m a wolves fan but that 2004 pistons defense was better, the wolves make it hard to score those pistons made scoring feel like winning
WE DON’T OVERRATE JOKIC BUT WE GIVE HIM ALL THE CREDIT FOR HIS SUPPORTING CAST
dude we have the same taste in music! what’s your favorite live album from the dead and/or the Allman Brothers?
Jokic is not overated the rest of Nuggets are. When we say Jok had bad game we are talking about 16 points 16 rebrounds and 9 assist 😅😂. First game he scored 32 points. Problem is that Jokic is finess player and when you allow 2 big guys holding him against bascketball rulles he is in problem because he is not like Saq that can dunk with 2 guys on him. What Duncan whould be if he had 2 players guarding him non stop, but yea you couldnt done that to him, because he had 3 half of fame players playing with him.
Jokic is big center guy he can not like MJ take ball and go hole court alone. What Saq would look like if he didnt had Kobe or Wade or Peny?! Saq also needed to get the ball down, same as Jok. Lets be fair here... Jok is playing bad yes but that do not erase all he done and he did a lot. Jok is not top 10 of all time because he only have 1 ring, but he is the guy who did some thing we never sow from guy on his position. He changed the ligue like Stef. In that perspective he is great player one of the best, but untill he has 4 or 5 rings he will not be top 10 players. He and Janis are on same spot between top 15 to 20 players all time. They need to win more to get top 10.
Jason great stuff and thank you for your content, well done man 😊👏
I just can’t see this team being a title contender with AD playing the 5 and LBJ at the 4 (maybe if we can get one more reliable big that plays a major role off the bench with Hayes). We will repeat the last couple seasons if we don’t focus on going big/mimicking the rotation we had in 2020. My dream lineup would be:
Capela (via trade w/ Rui)
AD
LBJ
KCP or similar player (or finesse Hunter from Atl in Capela trade)
Reaves
OR
Hartenstein (mid level)
AD
LBJ
Murray (via trade)
Reaves
Bench:
Gabe, Christie, Vando, Woods, Hayes
What are Jordan's ugly moments in the playoffs?! Getting beat by great stacked teams like the Pistons and Celtics when your second best player is Charles Oakley or for losing to the Magic after a 1.5 year layoff and having only 17 games to get in shape for the playoffs?!! I mean if we're going to count that against MJ then how brutal do we have to be when analyzing other top 10 all time players...
It’s a good point about opponents records being misleading but Miami was a pretty easy finals matchup. It doesn’t diminish what they did last year but it wasn’t one of the harder championships.
“We” didn’t overrate him YOU did Jason 😂
jokic wasnt good against lakers either. AD got whatever he wanted at the rim
Seeing dead and co at the Sphere in a month. Will be first time I’ve seen them
I disagree on the Jamal Murray take. What he did was genuinely dangerous and players have been suspended for much less. Being embarrassed isn’t enough
Joker doesn't play defense on purpose most of the time. He's too important to his team to foul out. Good coaching.
Denver is definitely going out kinda shitty here. But it seems like everybody is forgetting they will probably get a few more cracks at it over the next 3 to 6 seasons.
All time greats with bad playoff runs.
Lebron got owned by the Mavs 2011 (and this years crappy Denver team)
Tragic Johnson 1984
Bird swept second round by bucks 1983
Jordan got beat by a team that got swept in the finals 1995
Kobe looked awful in 2004 finals
Duncan lost by 39 and 29 in the final two games in 2001
Shaq got swept 6 times
Kareem missed the playoffs as that seasons MVP 1976
Wilt got benched in game 7 4th quarter 1969
Like bad moments are a thing for great players. And Nikola hasn’t reached that level yet. But he has a chance to. Even if he gets his ass kicked this year. It doesn’t mean he can’t bounce back.
The 95 playoffs for MJ is a weird thing to believe. He had very few games to get in basketball shape after being in baseball shape. The 2 sports use completely different muscles.
You gotta check out JJ Grey & Mofro
I feel like a lot of the talk abt Jokic now is a result of it being forced down our throats that the best player in the world wasn’t even a conversation when in my opinion Jokic never clearly passed Giannis
Yikes, now that's an all-time terrible take
Love your content but an odd statement to make comparing Jordan losing in the playoffs in 1995 vs what is currently happening to the Nuggets and Jokic in this playoff run. Jokic didn’t come back towards the end of the season…he just won MVP. I don’t understand that comparison. If the argument is this is part of the story of Jokic’s career and everybody’s story has some rough patches …ok… but that didn’t seem like the argument being made at least not through an honest and context-based assessment. Yes, Jordan got bounced in the 1995 playoffs in the 2nd round but he wasn’t coming off an MVP season where his team was the defending champions. Context matters and saying or implying equivalency seems disingenuous.
Who care he was in his prime, 31 or 32 i believe, coming back from 1 and half year of retirement after 3peating, and it’s not like he couldn’t prepare himself before or didn’t play enough games with the BULLS, if Lebron retired in 2014 and came back in 2016 i wouldn’t use it as an excuse if he lost to Shaq and Penny, it’s ok man sometimes even the best have bad games or series, and MJ wasn’t even that bad … So no excuses, he was fresh, no injuris he only played 17 games in that regular season, and its not like he went to a new team, it was still the same BULLS, with the same Pippen thyjust added Roadman and Kukoc i believe so no excuses
Love these mailbag sections!
Congratulations Jokic on your 3rd MVP!
Well deserved!! 👍👏🥳🥳🔥🔥
Did we overrate Jokic? No. Wolves-Nuggets over? Yes. Isn't that contradictory? Nah, not with the context of the whole season. It's actually Occam's razor here.
Difference is there is 2000+ spots in the nfl nba is 400-500 spots. So just number a wise a nba player would have a better chance to get on practice squad then a nba player get on a bench
Saying Jokic's peak is higher than Steph or KD's because they never had a significant gap between them and other great players during their peak doesn't hit home considering Curry, and KD were at their peaks around the same time and you can add a peak Lebron to that mix.
It took jokic 6-7 years of playing in the NBA to peak. He was drafted 2015 or 2016?
@@vladimirsempio2134 2014
While overall I don’t think Jokic was overrated all that much, his defence very much was.
He was never a good defender, and he was rarely if ever even neutral. People who tried to act like he was good on that end were lying through their teeth.
What’s your view of Phish?
no we overrated murray
"The worth of the vanquished lends glory to the victor"
All of these rankings and legacy narratives are mostly based on the above -> Denver is a great team obviously, but who's the best they've beaten 🤔
Love the content Jason.
The anolitics back up jok as the best player in the league over last few years not being overrated now jok def need to be more assertive in game 3 i do agree jok not giving the same effort in deffense this year like he was last year
Reminds me of when I was at Notre Dame for a year in grad school back in the 1990s and went to the rec center one day and was hanging around the gym where some pickup basketball games were going on. On one of the courts there were some black guys hooping and oh my god could they jump and dunk. In fact, it was so unreal that I had to stop and think about it -- these weren't just normal athletic dunks that you see at any gym. This was like having the NBA slam dunk contest happening on the next court over. The thought of being on the court trying to play pickup ball with those guys was laughable -- it would have have been like taking the Prius out for a drive and finding yourself on the Indy 500 speedway, with four cars passing you on the left just as you've half realized that one passed you on the right. I guess they were Notre Dame football players and were some of the top athletes in the country.
Can’t be “best player in the world” if you’re a cone and liability on defense
The title of this vid is what I’d expect from a LeLaker fan.
I feel like Anthony Edwards could have averaged 33-40 ppg this season, but as someone who watched every game, he’s too unselfish and during the regular season he appeared to just be working on filling out his game. He’s out there trying off the glass 3s, left handed free throws, crazy shit. Then in the playoffs he “locks in” and sticks to what he’s most confident with. When his game is refined in 4-5 years and “final”, he’s going to be a baaaaaaaaad man.
Wolves fan here. Even though we are up 2-0 I still won't count out the Nuggets yet. They just need 1 good game on Friday to get back in the series. They are the defending champs with the MVP. It's not over.
EMBIID DROPPED 50 ON THE TWOLVES DEFENSE
What does Embiid have to do with anything? He's not in the playoffs anymore.
The thing he must learn from Colin and Nick Wright is when to punt on a take, Jokic as a top 10 or 15 all-time is similar to Skip saying Tebow was good, Jokic is the worst defender out of all the top 50 players and cant win if his supporting cast isnt playing well, hes being out played by KAT by far and AD went toe to toe with him, get off this train now!! 😂😂
i think it’s revisionist to say steph and kd never dominated their peers like jokic had cause outside of lebron (who is an outlier as a top two player all time in his prime) that’s absolutely did from 2015-2019 and it wasn’t close
The Tatum hate is crazy has the most point in a game 7 I love ant but ant has won one series in his life
They beat Portland wow insane that was crazy!
jokic is well rated.. i think minnie is unexpectedly very good!!! and i love every thing i'm seeing in these playoffs 😁
lol people still don’t want to call the nuggets time of death and that’s fine they’re the defending champs.
But why are we acting like only the nuggets have agency in this situation? The twolves are not a team to let of the gas
MVP should include at minimum the first rd of the playoffs.
The regular season is a lesser level of play. This is no knock to Jokic. But he has been exposed against the Timberwolves playoff level schemes.
The should ask how they underrated Minnesota
Joker is genius no one can overrated him .. there is a true anecdote that he was literally hidden from European and American scouts at the age of 15 in Serbia while he was going to my high school, until they decided how and what to do with him ..literally!! that's why I don't like all the noise about the 22-year-old ultra talented Ant because he can easily crack under the pressure of the press and public ... most fresh case is tennis Raducanu effect!! every athlete has to mature at his own pace, and that's tennis Djoker effect 420+ weeks no.1 that is mission fu... impossible, but true !! cheers Hoops.. and play us something sometime, hehe...
Great point. Stupid point by Austin Rivers.
Win totals are deceiving...of course a Laker fan's perspective.
Denver played 3 PLAY-IN teams, no NBA has ever had an easier path. That's just a FACT
Edwards physical movement and influence on the game hearkens back to young MJ when he was showing off against Larry and Isaiah, et al.
The Timberwolves are the Pat Riley's Knicks but with Michael Jordan on their side.
Can we relax? The series is not over. When it is over we can talk about how great Joker is or isn't.
It looks pretty over to me. Denver clearly doesn’t believe they can win this series
A WELL DESERVED 3 TIME MVP cannot be overrated. 😅😂
Jokic is inevitable, STILL expect him to bounce back this series! 👍👏🙏🙏
He can the team not so much will see they gotta start off better on offense getting down early aint it
Enough about the team he has a good team but the best player in the world should be able to carry the team
Joker's legacy is on the line in this series.
$100k fine is a joke. Rudy Gobert got the same fine for making a money sign in March. Murray did the same AND through a towel and heat pack on the floor during a game! He should have been suspended and fined $200k!!!
You didn’t really answer my question. If Jokic finishes with ONE(1) ring how in the world is he a top 20 player ever? The guys you mention have 3,4,5 rings. Jokic doesn’t. Stop acting like he does!
The same can be said for Giannis and thousands of others. Barkley is one such player you could ask if he is a top 20 player and he has no rings. It will come down to how dominant was he and did he have a decent team around him. Wilt faced those same questions
Jokic has been unstoppable for over 6 years. Now, finally, a team with huge athletes that was built to stop Jokic, manages to do it and all of a sudden Jokic is overrated? Dumbest question ever.
they constructed the wolves squad to beat Jokic .. hes not overrated