I still don't understand why they can't just make the Tyrant a cool fighty hero that does tons of damage or buffs other ogres' damage. We're still doing the pitiful 5 attacks huh?
As a 40k player (not really huge on AoS as a whole but it's still kinda interesting), you are seeing the same treatment we had a year ago; The Index armies for 10th Edition were a spectrum to say the least, as some armies (Custodes, Craftworld Eldar, etc) had fluffy rules with decent crunch behind them, but others (Adeptus Mechanicus and Death Guard) were clearly not playtested and almost seem as though they were designed by people who do not understand the armies they were writing the rules for. AdMech for instance went from a semi-elite ranged army to a weird horde strategy that it was never designed for. When the Codices came out, some (Orks, Sisters of Battle) were clearly designed by people who know these armies, how they play and what their players are looking for, with armies that are both good and fun to play, sweet! But then you get some (AdMech, Custodes, Dark Angels) that either kept all of the problems they had in their index, or were nerfed so hard into the ground that they can feel Beijing rumbling above them.
@@KC-kl6qc I feel like your comment is accurate- even care definitely was not paid to all indexes at launch. The more popular (read: profitable) lines definitely got more love. However, Ogres' issues run deeper than that, the problems we see here have been around for all 4 editions, and somehow seem to be getting worse with time.
@@AnthonyPaoliMasakiSays I won't say as I know exactly what those Ogre problems are, like I said I don't play AoS, I was just commenting that it seems AoS and 40k are getting dumbed down and losing a lot of flavour. Even though these are essentially beta rules for Ogres going into 4th ed, they already seem so much more simplified, dumber one may say.
Love to see the constructive criticism! My last hope for BCR is the actual battletome, I'm sad BCR just got wrecked by the index rules. Hopefully Matt Rose pulls through for the battletome!
It's very disappointing to see GW still don't know what they want to do with Ogors after 4 editions. You would think they would have double down on the indomitable Big Bois that dominate the areas they are in. But foot Ogors are too fragile - what exactly is that massive gut plate protecting if they're on such a poor save? - to T-Pose on objectives to win, and Beastclaw aren't anything anymore. Bizzare decisions, maybe they should sculpt pointy ears on the new sculpts so as to trick the rules writers in to giving them good rules?
Heya, coming here from the Poorhammer 4th edition video. Getting into AoS with Spearhead this edition, which seems fun. Working on Sylvaneth as they are cool sculpt, shame about their rules lets hope the book fixes them. Stuff like all Monster Heroes getting the Lady of Vines thing and those being Awakened Wildwood for all effects. Also making Nighthaunt spearhead as I enjoy their look. As on Ogors, time to give my uninformed opinion as thinking about game design is fun, and frankly they seem to need more battle traits. Maybe play on the fun of the Slaughter Master maybe and make a mechanic Ogors gain “Fullness” or Food tokens that make them tougher and make their charges better. Perhaps they can spend them to heal and/or get defensive effects. If we gotta do a “Pre-Feast” and “Post-Feast” mechanics, make it matter more. Give -most- warscrolls an actual ability and then a bonus for being post feast. Frankly Food tokens seem more fun. The Hunter being a Monster hunter I think can be fixed with a slight change in identity. Lean into being a -hunter- feeding his people. If you take the food token idea, make him give those in an aura when he kills something and give more when killing Monsters. Make killing Monsters a -bonus-. The fact the Tyrant doesn’t do the reaction on fighting, make an ally within combat fight feels very dumb. Maybe make him buff Gnoblars in an aura instead of making it a tax? Beastfang Raiders identity seems to be outlasting the storm, leaving nothing behind. Make a blizzard effect that makes enemies weaker and them stronger. Or hell, as Everwinter follows them, give them a Battle Trait that all Beastfang Models give an effect in aura. Like lowering enemies to hit because the snow gets in their eyes or something. It would help make them tougher. I also enjoy HeyWoah’s “blizzard tokens on enemies and/or allies”. Maybe they apply different things depending on who they are on. Hell make the Army Rule that units with Blizzard Tokens make an Aura that give -1 to hit for enemy units that have it. And if allied unit have enemies within the an Aura take damage or get -1 to Wound. As for a thing to do for Yetis, maybe make them Blizzard Token spreaders? An ability where in the Combat Phase they can apply a Blizzard Token for free? Like to all models in combat to them (enemy and ally). If Blizzard tokens matter then maybe it will make them matter. Anyway, the fact they weren’t Legends’d like Beasts of Chaos or Bonesplitterz makes me feel they will get an army box and range update when their book comes out. Lets hope its good.
The devs did such a bad job here. Gluttons hitting hard does not make up for so much bad and so much feels bad. They cannot convince me that anyone play tested this and said it was ok. My cope is that they just didn't even try because they intend to basically wholly rewrite this army along with a completely revamped model range as one of the earlier battletome releases in 4e. Well, I mean, my real cope is playing death factions instead, but still. If the AoS devs cared so little about ogors I don't understand why the old world devs weren't allowed to play with them.
Honestly separating BCR and gut busters with the current model range doesn't really work. BCR is literally two kits. One kit has two monster variants, with character variants for each. That's it. That's not really much of an *army*.
Agree. Each half would be a pretty small army if you dropped the finecast. Guts would have like no heroes and BCR would have only monsters and mournfang.
As an alternative option for fixing thundertusks give them a defensive aura of some kind. I.E. all BCR within 12” are at -1 to hit or for really spicy make it a ward aura.
I wish I understood why they decided to move the Frostlord from a 3+ save to 4+. The loss of the 5++ Ward already reduced the durability of every Stonehorn but Frostlords not having a good save when they have so little health is just strange. In my only game with ogors so far my FLoSH basically died to a unit of Blood Warriors and a Bloodsecrator. He was great for capturing while he was alive, but that was about it. I did win the game, but mostly because my opponent was playtesting a really weird (and as it turned sub-optimal) build.
It's more annoying to me seeing that they just did the solution to this with splitting up Ironjawz and Kruleboyz. Are the two halves of Ogres so similar that they couldn't possibly split the book in half? I don't think any BCR player would have a problem with only being able to run a few shared units along with all their big monster trucks on legs if it meant they could have much better written rules.
As a sylvaneth player. I would like to stop referencing us as wanting to hug terrain. We want less of that as well - and we have to cast them onto the board in daft gaps. We’d be happy strike and fade happening anywhere on the battle 😂😂
Great commentary as always, one thing I thought was maybe bloodpelt hunter's shots could reduce attacks of companion weapons? I feel like this might effectively convey the "beast hunter" persona and maybe be a bit more useful because it also targets cav.
IRONBLASTER COSTS MORE THAN 200??? The Cities Cannon has a similar profile, better range (24' which they can get up to 27') and cost 130, *130*. It's not an straight up upgrade, but none of the downsides actually mater for an artillery.
random attacks and random damage are both bad. rolls to hit and to wound and to save and to ward are already too many tolls to go through for each attack sequence. ideally there should only be one offensive roll and one defensive roll, but in the mean time at the very least nothing should be adding /more/ rolls. either do away with random attacks or at least make anything with random attacks automatically hit so that you aren't adding rolls. either do away with random damage or at least make anything with random damage wound automatically so that you aren't adding rolls.
it does kinda feel like the balance just wants you to spam butchers and gluttons with the wizard detachment... the other 3 detachments are mediocre at best even building around them and none of the other units really stand out compared to the brutal efficiency of just spamming butchers and gluttons
GW did an absolutely incredible job making one of the objectively most fun armies; Beastclaw monster trucks, become the least fun army! I really scratch my head when you see Lumineth cavalry get an even better Ogor Charge on 3+ but against infantry and don’t get why Beastclaw couldn’t have got something similar; and the loss of the ward was just plain weird when every demon, even skaven demons, have a 5+! 😢
he wanted them to not be be big damage and anvils and fast all at the same time because it was the only unit you had to run in the book, now they aren't insanely fast or tough and this is what that looks like, instant regret.
![Ogor Mawtribes Review - Faction Focus Guide [Age of Sigmar]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zumwYOgZJoI/mqdefault.jpg)
![Ogor Mawtribes Review - Faction Focus Guide [Age of Sigmar]](/img/tr.png)
BIG FIRST COMMENT
I still don't understand why they can't just make the Tyrant a cool fighty hero that does tons of damage or buffs other ogres' damage. We're still doing the pitiful 5 attacks huh?
As a 40k player (not really huge on AoS as a whole but it's still kinda interesting), you are seeing the same treatment we had a year ago;
The Index armies for 10th Edition were a spectrum to say the least, as some armies (Custodes, Craftworld Eldar, etc) had fluffy rules with decent crunch behind them, but others (Adeptus Mechanicus and Death Guard) were clearly not playtested and almost seem as though they were designed by people who do not understand the armies they were writing the rules for.
AdMech for instance went from a semi-elite ranged army to a weird horde strategy that it was never designed for.
When the Codices came out, some (Orks, Sisters of Battle) were clearly designed by people who know these armies, how they play and what their players are looking for, with armies that are both good and fun to play, sweet!
But then you get some (AdMech, Custodes, Dark Angels) that either kept all of the problems they had in their index, or were nerfed so hard into the ground that they can feel Beijing rumbling above them.
@@KC-kl6qc I feel like your comment is accurate- even care definitely was not paid to all indexes at launch. The more popular (read: profitable) lines definitely got more love.
However, Ogres' issues run deeper than that, the problems we see here have been around for all 4 editions, and somehow seem to be getting worse with time.
@@AnthonyPaoliMasakiSays I won't say as I know exactly what those Ogre problems are, like I said I don't play AoS, I was just commenting that it seems AoS and 40k are getting dumbed down and losing a lot of flavour. Even though these are essentially beta rules for Ogres going into 4th ed, they already seem so much more simplified, dumber one may say.
Fingers crossed for a big range update, tbh that'd get me to pull the trigger on AoS
Love to see the constructive criticism! My last hope for BCR is the actual battletome, I'm sad BCR just got wrecked by the index rules. Hopefully Matt Rose pulls through for the battletome!
Getting in on that RUclips video meta. Big 🙌🏻
It's very disappointing to see GW still don't know what they want to do with Ogors after 4 editions. You would think they would have double down on the indomitable Big Bois that dominate the areas they are in. But foot Ogors are too fragile - what exactly is that massive gut plate protecting if they're on such a poor save? - to T-Pose on objectives to win, and Beastclaw aren't anything anymore. Bizzare decisions, maybe they should sculpt pointy ears on the new sculpts so as to trick the rules writers in to giving them good rules?
If gluttons had saves and their speed and damage and control you'd have 12 of them on the board.
@@rotm4447 funnily enough that's what Ogor players are already doing and winning.
i really feel for you, Mr. Big. this is not how loyalty should be repaid.
Heya, coming here from the Poorhammer 4th edition video. Getting into AoS with Spearhead this edition, which seems fun. Working on Sylvaneth as they are cool sculpt, shame about their rules lets hope the book fixes them. Stuff like all Monster Heroes getting the Lady of Vines thing and those being Awakened Wildwood for all effects. Also making Nighthaunt spearhead as I enjoy their look.
As on Ogors, time to give my uninformed opinion as thinking about game design is fun, and frankly they seem to need more battle traits. Maybe play on the fun of the Slaughter Master maybe and make a mechanic Ogors gain “Fullness” or Food tokens that make them tougher and make their charges better. Perhaps they can spend them to heal and/or get defensive effects. If we gotta do a “Pre-Feast” and “Post-Feast” mechanics, make it matter more. Give -most- warscrolls an actual ability and then a bonus for being post feast. Frankly Food tokens seem more fun.
The Hunter being a Monster hunter I think can be fixed with a slight change in identity. Lean into being a -hunter- feeding his people. If you take the food token idea, make him give those in an aura when he kills something and give more when killing Monsters. Make killing Monsters a -bonus-.
The fact the Tyrant doesn’t do the reaction on fighting, make an ally within combat fight feels very dumb. Maybe make him buff Gnoblars in an aura instead of making it a tax?
Beastfang Raiders identity seems to be outlasting the storm, leaving nothing behind. Make a blizzard effect that makes enemies weaker and them stronger. Or hell, as Everwinter follows them, give them a Battle Trait that all Beastfang Models give an effect in aura. Like lowering enemies to hit because the snow gets in their eyes or something. It would help make them tougher. I also enjoy HeyWoah’s “blizzard tokens on enemies and/or allies”. Maybe they apply different things depending on who they are on. Hell make the Army Rule that units with Blizzard Tokens make an Aura that give -1 to hit for enemy units that have it. And if allied unit have enemies within the an Aura take damage or get -1 to Wound.
As for a thing to do for Yetis, maybe make them Blizzard Token spreaders? An ability where in the Combat Phase they can apply a Blizzard Token for free? Like to all models in combat to them (enemy and ally). If Blizzard tokens matter then maybe it will make them matter.
Anyway, the fact they weren’t Legends’d like Beasts of Chaos or Bonesplitterz makes me feel they will get an army box and range update when their book comes out. Lets hope its good.
The devs did such a bad job here. Gluttons hitting hard does not make up for so much bad and so much feels bad. They cannot convince me that anyone play tested this and said it was ok. My cope is that they just didn't even try because they intend to basically wholly rewrite this army along with a completely revamped model range as one of the earlier battletome releases in 4e.
Well, I mean, my real cope is playing death factions instead, but still. If the AoS devs cared so little about ogors I don't understand why the old world devs weren't allowed to play with them.
A new video!?
In this economy?
Honestly separating BCR and gut busters with the current model range doesn't really work. BCR is literally two kits. One kit has two monster variants, with character variants for each. That's it. That's not really much of an *army*.
Agree. Each half would be a pretty small army if you dropped the finecast. Guts would have like no heroes and BCR would have only monsters and mournfang.
Ogors just need a whole range refresh in general tbh
As an alternative option for fixing thundertusks give them a defensive aura of some kind. I.E. all BCR within 12” are at -1 to hit or for really spicy make it a ward aura.
Gah Dayum the Slaughtermaster could be such a good model, can't wait for that new sculpt
I wish I understood why they decided to move the Frostlord from a 3+ save to 4+. The loss of the 5++ Ward already reduced the durability of every Stonehorn but Frostlords not having a good save when they have so little health is just strange.
In my only game with ogors so far my FLoSH basically died to a unit of Blood Warriors and a Bloodsecrator. He was great for capturing while he was alive, but that was about it. I did win the game, but mostly because my opponent was playtesting a really weird (and as it turned sub-optimal) build.
It feels like Mawtribes being ogre soup hurts them because it waters down their faction abilities.
It's more annoying to me seeing that they just did the solution to this with splitting up Ironjawz and Kruleboyz. Are the two halves of Ogres so similar that they couldn't possibly split the book in half? I don't think any BCR player would have a problem with only being able to run a few shared units along with all their big monster trucks on legs if it meant they could have much better written rules.
Ogors would absolutely NOT work as two separate factions, short of a whole range refresh/a bunch of new models
@@o7_AP I mean they absolutely could, range refresh would be ideal but they have more to work with than other factions have in the past
"Shoot in combat" if it means u can shoot in close combat makes leadbealchers sick
I'm sorry for your loss
As a sylvaneth player. I would like to stop referencing us as wanting to hug terrain. We want less of that as well - and we have to cast them onto the board in daft gaps.
We’d be happy strike and fade happening anywhere on the battle 😂😂
maybe "is forced to, sadly" is more correct
Great commentary as always, one thing I thought was maybe bloodpelt hunter's shots could reduce attacks of companion weapons? I feel like this might effectively convey the "beast hunter" persona and maybe be a bit more useful because it also targets cav.
big video, can’t wait for more 4th ed heywoah vidyas
When I ask myself what BCR should be like, I end up basically thinking about IDK, but maybe with less speed and more durability
Maybe make mournfang the durable pinning one, like chaos knights ended up being, while the monsters smash idk
Another reason why ravenous brutes and feast on flesh are bad is because narratively it suggests that ogres can be satiated.
IRONBLASTER COSTS MORE THAN 200???
The Cities Cannon has a similar profile, better range (24' which they can get up to 27') and cost 130, *130*.
It's not an straight up upgrade, but none of the downsides actually mater for an artillery.
I forgot to mention but a Fusil-Major can give them +1 to hit and he doesn't cost a drop if you use a Freeguild Marshal.
random attacks and random damage are both bad. rolls to hit and to wound and to save and to ward are already too many tolls to go through for each attack sequence. ideally there should only be one offensive roll and one defensive roll, but in the mean time at the very least nothing should be adding /more/ rolls.
either do away with random attacks or at least make anything with random attacks automatically hit so that you aren't adding rolls. either do away with random damage or at least make anything with random damage wound automatically so that you aren't adding rolls.
GW employees don't play Ogors and it shows
it does kinda feel like the balance just wants you to spam butchers and gluttons with the wizard detachment... the other 3 detachments are mediocre at best even building around them and none of the other units really stand out compared to the brutal efficiency of just spamming butchers and gluttons
Am I missing something with the Tyrant/Gnoblars? Can't you just take the Gnoblars as an Auxiliary without needing the Tyrant?
BIG TIME!
Beastclaw should have nighthaunt in combat charges and impact hits
welcome to the meat train
come on and jam
hope GW sees this, you've basically done half their homework for them already
Someone send this to GW… PLEASE!
Huge!
GW did an absolutely incredible job making one of the objectively most fun armies; Beastclaw monster trucks, become the least fun army! I really scratch my head when you see Lumineth cavalry get an even better Ogor Charge on 3+ but against infantry and don’t get why Beastclaw couldn’t have got something similar; and the loss of the ward was just plain weird when every demon, even skaven demons, have a 5+! 😢
Don't look at Kruleboyz' Boss on vulture warscroll
GW has never sufficiently play tested their game
he wanted them to not be be big damage and anvils and fast all at the same time because it was the only unit you had to run in the book, now they aren't insanely fast or tough and this is what that looks like, instant regret.
@@rotm4447 I don’t even understand what this comment has to do with the conversation.
Commenting in appreciation of the thumbnail
BIG
I wonder how many people like me your videos have gotten to play AoS, and the company keeps treating your lads this way
@@kellyhoesing2573 I can't understand why they released so much underworlds/warcry content for ogors, but no kits for the main game...