Accumulator - Best performance mod you don't know about - Motive Tech
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Why we had the accumulator out of our R32 GT-R to be cleaned, we thought it was a good chance to talk about accumulators , how they work, why they are awesome and why every performance car should have one.
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Aircraft technology ,gotta love the many applications on performance cars.
These are great. Lost an engine due to oil issues first test laps on track, even though fitted with road race sump. Fitted accumulator and engine did 8 hard years on track, bearings all fine when stripped for freshen up.
I Need an Electrical Accumulator, Not an oil accumulator !!! ! !!!
Accumulator has several uses. You can also use it to break-in your engine. 99% of street cars do not need a dry stump. There are more affordable ways to cut down on windage. I'm glad you have decided to educate your audience about this badly misunderstood product.
I've been debating on one of these for a while. Any chance you guys could do an install video?
After some google search it's such a novice install. Almost as easy as installing a spark plug. If you're not running an oil cooler its literally one line off an oil sandwich block.
Ztuned even if you are
Just run a one way valve and a t and boom
What an awesome bit of tech. Not being into racing other than the armchair type but being a fabricator this looks like something I could achieve for my own car.
I don't have a race car, but this just made me want one anyway. Lpl
Great for getting the oil up to pressure before starting as well!
You guys have really been killing it lately with bang on content! Keep it coming so I can slurp up that good shit!
I agree needs a install video with it as well. Sounds like a goer for my new race car.
I just had one of these installed into my RB30 GTR. Sounds like I made a good choice.
Nice video! We recently spoke the the guys at Mountune who used one in a British Touring car. Nice piece of kit. - Ben
Yeah, the new Mountune era of engineers that are useless (The old boys that I knew from the WRC era would never run this crap), like Lotus back in the elise s2 years and Mclaren when it was starting with the mp412c an P1, they couldn't design their own engine (like lotus) so had to recycle a 30yo indycar era engine design from RICARDO engineering XD still running port injection in the era of Direct Injection! XD God its so funny!! So are you still grinding off the shot peened finish on connecting rods to "balance" them? XDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXDXD FFS you youtube princesses are hilarious.
@@ValladolidArde this setup was used due to the BTCC rule book. It will be easy for you to find more information on that outside of RUclips.
Not a bad rant though although there is room for improvement. 4/10, needs more facts and/or dragons 😅 - Taz.
Ran my record braking 34GTR with neither, just ran a 11 Litre Sump with associated pickup and never had surge issue in over 6 years of Motorsport events and it was tracked quite a few times per year.
Good timing, I have been thinking about getting one of these for the last few months. If you do a video on them they must be worth it!!
You need your own TV show man... Your videos are that informative and edited well 👍
Perfect just ordered one!
Perfect timing, looking at one of these for my 4g63 which suffers from a loss of oil pressure under heavy braking. Not a total loss but down to around 30psi which is less than it would be normally at the same RPMs
This also solves the issue I have with cold starts. The engine is fine, it's just the realisation that the engine for a moment grinds metal to metal. I feel like it will provide me peace of mind.
agreed- this is what i like most about it- i want to pair this w/ a block heater to eliminate wear altogether on 'cold' starts
Yep, you've convinced me. I definitely need one of these for .. wait I don't even have a car.
That was very informative, thank you.
Great channel. Very informative.
So its kinda like an oil capacitor? I gotta say between this and the mechanical fuel pump video you guys are becoming my new fav! Keep them coming.
My R32 GTR is mostly stock eongine-wise so I'd definitely want one of these if I join my friends for a track day. Oil starvation with the stock sump is almost guaranteed.
I nought my first one (a Canton 3 qt) in 1979 and still have it today. In 1993 I sent it back to Canton to get it checked out and they said it was fine but replaced the o-ring on the piston because of its age and did it all free. I originally used a selenoid from a Coke dispenser to open/close it with ignition switch, but replaced it with a Moroso unit after The Canton checkup. The Moroso unit worked the same pbut didnt use as much power and didnt do the loud "clunk" every time. I credit mine with the 608,000 miles I got out of the engine (aluminum V8) in my old mercedes 380SL.
Great content 👍
Great video glad I watched it. The accumulator seems to be a great yet simple small design to keep your engine healthy under any and all driving conditions. Seems to me this is one of those things that should be mandated on cars, not backup cameras.
after the engine pull down you did, i was sold..
Capaciter but for your engine
Spoken like an electrician who is a car enthusiast as well
Hydraulic capacitor.
Definitely run one in my dragster. Well worth the $$
Hey Andrew, love this video! Can you give some more details on the setup on the GTR like the pre-charge etc
Soo good!!
Great video.
Now this is something that you’d think yours see more off-road but.. I guess not lmao
I definitely want one in my rig now
Awesome video Andrew. So true, these are so underestimated and even better... They're pretty affordable
Where’s the vr videos at
@@Nickrpm Hahaha I'm trying to get them edited mate!😏
When he said mainly V8 guys use them and import guys don't but they do I think his accent explains it all. Not sure if Aussie or New Zealand but that's where V8 muscle meets JDM import so it's no surprise the two interchange ways of doing things
Aircraft use pneudraulic accumulators to store energy for starting, emergency steering and braking, and extending landing gear when the regular hydraulic system experiences a failure. :D
They have them for turbo's too to keep pressure after shut down//during spool down, prevents excessive wear/coking of carbon.
Awesome
very interesting! the title couldnt be more correct hahaha. never heard of one.
Top stuff!!
Andrew I have one to go into my gtr and well put one in my 260rs. Could you put up a diagram on how you install it. Mine in the big on too😊
Awesome video as always. Never had one of these but think it's a good reason to get one. Can we buy them on your web site mate?
Always ran one on our road racing Vettes.
hey andrew , just noticed in the video , that in your GTR the brackets are inboard from the ends of the canister , @2:14 and that can cause deformation , causing the pistons to not be able to travel and or consistently through their range of movement and can cause hang ups and wear to the O-ings . just a heads up . see how in Jett200 @ 0:33 they are at the ends of the tank . that's how the manuf suggests. just a heads up . im sure you dont go too crazy with tightening , but still . steel clamps n an aluminum thin walled tube. they work great , i'll run one in my SR22 powered R32 . itll be used as a pre charge for cold starts , and on the electronic solenoid Canton offers . i worked with them several years ago with the SR20 pan they had offered, think now discontinued . great company , great products for sure . .
twistymcslide2 canton one in GT-R has thin end plates. Thinner than a clamp, so you have no choice but to clamp tube. It’s not tight enough to effect it
Moroso one in JET200 has thicker ends so can do it that way.
When investing xxxx of $ in to an engine this is a must, this and inline oil filters.
If there were a loss in oil pressure due to oil pump failure, the accumulator would provide relief, then the ecu would see no oil pressure and initiate engine protection. If it were the other way around, the engine protection would initiate every time the accumulator was required. Which I doesn't, because engine protection cant operate that quickly. Never the less, accumulators are worth every penny.
You can tell the ECU you want a certain amount of time before it shuts engine off, ie, below 20psi for over a second, or 0psi instantly etc
^pilot or aviation engineer, or hobby pilot.
The Subaru guys here in the US use these things often. Reason being is the factory oil pickups had a tendency to...desolder themselves under heat and vibration.
Many cars do. Some Mercedes tear the o ring sealing the pickup
Could you use an accumulator to upgrade your attesa system and an aftermarket G sensor/ecu to replace the old components in the trunk?
"...we pulled this one for cleaning after engine failure... "
Me - SOLD! Where can I buy one.
Im pretty sure this was after the 32 had piston failure. Not oil related.
check it out:
ruclips.net/video/wC8muFVAND8/видео.html
If oil pressure were to spike out the relief valve on your manual set up, what would you guys do?
Good info, insurance for your engine.
I have a Hi-Octane 10ltr oil sump, do i still need this ? Thanks
Good for if you can't install a dry sump...but seems like a bit of regular upkeep. Perhaps a little messy as well. I could only see using this for a street car as a safety for like you said, those shitty oil pumps in the RB's. Track car, I'd look for a more permanent solution.
Best Lee Sin NA solved our time attack cars oil surge problems 🤷♂️
@@MotiveVideo if it works, don't fix it until it breaks haha. I have a secondary oil pump that is timing chain driven and the clutch for the gear is oil pressure driven. I'll get a little lag if the oil pressure drops, but it's bullet proof with the Goliath of a timing chain and gear setup on there. Had to make a larger timing chain cover. On my RB's I just use dry sump with a G-force gate so the oil pump is never starved.
Aren't there automatic ones that can prime your engine and turbos? And also provide oil to the turbo while it still spinning durong shutdown?
Can this solve the 2ZZ oil issue?
Great advice! Do you have one on your WRX?
Jack Campbell not yet but it doesn’t need one yet as no oil surge problems.....yet
Where did you guys install the accumulator for the R32? The trunk? Somewhere in the engine bay?
And does the accumulator introduce another step when doing an oil change?
yuuup. lost one engine from starvation and haven't since i've installed an accusump
Do you open the manual valve in the 200 prior to starting laps and leave it open for the duration of the time on track? Good video mate.
Open to prime then close. Start engine. Then open it as we pull out of pit garage. Crew chief points at accumulator and i point at bonnet pins and we both thumbs up as last check before driving out.
Why not just leave it on the whole time?
Sold.
So I’m guessing you have to overfill your engine with a few extra litres when you first install this accumulator right?
Any issues with that at all?
Been used in heavily tuned cars in sweden for years.. So in atleast in parts of europe this is well known.
Tbh the only reason I haven't got one. Is room. Ive almost run out of room to put one
So it's kinda like the remote ressies on shocks with the compressed air to keep oil in them from cavitating
No
@@SpenserRoger it keeps oil in it doesnt it with compressed air I didn't say exactly like
Random questions,
Do these overfill the engine when at low revs when the oil pressure is lower anyway?
Do they cause less than ideal pressure when the engine is going from low revs to high and the pump is trying to fill the accumulator and supply oil pressure?
What pressure do you run these at and do you have to bleed the acculator/line going to it? can imagine there is a lot of volume in a -10 line going fron the engine to the boot.
Always thought these were more of a tack on for cars that didnt have properly sorted oil systems, interesting video.
I asked my engine builder who has an evo 6 and has been in multiple WTAC events, he is not a fan. They do overfill the sump and when the sump is overfilled you have more potential for blow by. I was about to buy a dry sump setup and then I saw this video so I asked my builder and he advised me to spend the extra money for true security of engine longevity.
Your right about accumulators, they are just a band-aid for a poorly sorted oiling system.
These work amazing when properly setup. Video has some blatant wrong info about it. I road race these because we are not allowed drysumps, and they make motors live 5x longer or more. Data log your oil pressure at a cam passage and you will be amazed how poor oiling does on a road course. You have to understand how to deal with dynamic oil level, they DO NOT create a higher oil level in your pan when racing when done right.
@@kwasg3 so, get a dry sump so you don't have to deal with all that.
@@alexstromberg7696 did you read his comment? He stated he cannot run a dry sump as he is not allowed by his road race rules.
Thinking about fitting one of these to my RB. Loads of good reviews with this setup, except recently I heard from a guy who used to run one on his RB who said that even with an accumulator he still had starvation issues and that the time it takes for the accumulator to address an issue it can be too late?
It seems like you have evidence to the contrary though? If several track car has zero issues and I guess didn't even show signs of bearing wear?
Accumulators work instantly. They are a bandaid in some cases but a very good one.
Main issue with the RB engines are the oil drain passageways from the head to the sump are underdimensioned, badly positioned or too few. Or some kind of combination of all of those.
Essentially, the oil does not drain fast enough back down into the sump. Exposing the pickup tube to air and then failure due to loss of oil pressure.
The accumulator reacts instantly(continiously)
Just think of it like if someone would stand next to the engine holding a big ass syringe filled with oil and with a hose connected to the oil gallery on the engine.
All of the time when the engine is running, this person is applying pressure to the plunger. In that way if the oil pressure in the engine would drop, the plunger and oil would start to go in instantly.
But even if you have an accumulator installed you can still experience oil starvation.
1. If you have to little oil in the system as a whole. (For instance if you forget to shut the accumulator valve before shutting down the engine)
If you then measure your oil level, it would not be correct. And when you then start up the engine again, the accumulator gets filled again and the oil level inside the sump will drop down.
2. Wrong size accumulator/ wrongly adjusted precharge.
Even with the accumulator functioning as intended it will not make the oil drain faster into the sump. 🤷🏼♂️
How did he come to the conclusion that he still has starvation issues?
I have accumulator in my R32 GT-R. Well spent few hundred bucks.
Do i need to use more oil using this ? Do the car get low oil when its fillit, sorry for my english
Yes you need more oil.
Tornado intake? I should but I haven't.
who needs an accumulator when you have an engine polarizer. Great idea tho, someone sat in their shed hard that day
I think I should get one for my GTR. That short nose crank scares me
@@zyoungson215 if my pump goes it would buy my engine enough time.
Sorry just finished watching te video, didnt think of ecu shutting down
Would this make sense on a low to mid power build with a 2jz? Seen as the oil flow is soo good on the 2jzs I was wonder if this would be an over kill or not most people I talk too say it’s not necessary but better safe than sorry right?
No, 2js are bulletproof dont even worry about an oil pressure gauge just send it.
As he said, in case of an oil pump failure this will save you a lot of dollars. I'm not intimately familiar with the pick up system on the 2js, so you'll have to ask people who track race them (as opposed to drag race them) how they handle prolonged sideways G forces, if that is applicable to what you want to do.
Good video but you didn’t explain exactly how to know when to release the oil. Do you release it when you see the pressure drop or is there a sensor.
It does it automatically. Almost like a dampener.
Can the filters anti-drain back valve function as a check valve?
yes
@@danieldelabarra2121 yeh
So it supplies oil when pressure drops, it's precharged with compressed air, and it uses a one way valve so once the oil gets out it's not getting in again, so it can run out of oil/pressure.
Seems like a cheap dry sump alternative with drawbacks.
Peterowsky that’s not exactly how it works, it close
What’s the drawback?
Amazing !!!!
This should be factory equipment!
But.... If I'm thinking of factory equipment quality, I think it will be more broken and leaking, then working. :))
Andrew your way of talking to the camera is better than 99.9% of the internet, keep it up mate the web will notice you soon :)
RUclips said that the Ad would finish in 5 seconds.
Once oil pressure dips how long does it take this thing to react? Are you able to set a oil pressure value for this thing to dump it’s oil contents at?
Its instant.
@@MotiveVideo thanks for the response. I found out that this thing stabilizes the oil system at the value you set. Initially I was thinking it waited for a dip in pressure then emptied its contents
@@frederickcook87 how to you set the psi value ?
@@daskamu on the gauge
Best performance mod you don't know about - Stage 2 kits for Audi RS3's - "destroying barra owner's lives"
Sure, one flying rod at a time.
I'd argue that the REAL poor man's dry sump is just using a 2 stroke engine
nowadays since theyre so rare a 2 stroke engine is a rich mans dry sump
I had A prototype that made it possible to advance the timing to the maximum possible adjustment on A 1998 Mazda Protege.
Made A video before I destroyed the prototype.
Probably will build A new one in the future anyways.
What
@@SpenserRoger Most gasoline powered engines do not run at the perfect ignition timing due to knock or pinging. Higher octane fuel helps to reduce pinging and knocking but it is costly, especially buying racing fuel.
My prototype allowed for better optimization of the ICE. Higher MPG and better horsepower are A result of that optimization.
Engines built with my prototype included from the beginning could be even further optimized.
So how much horsepower does the blue one add?
Patty one overnighted from Japan adds atleast 20hp domestic one only 10hp
Is a oil accumulator the same as a surge tank?
Thought a surge tank was for fuel.
no- a surge tank is for fuel.
Why have you put the clamps towards the middle of the canister in the GTR. They are supposed to be right on edge on each end to avoid deforming the canister.
why haven't i got one in my car? i drive a diesel van :(
Why havent i got one in my car? The accumulator is worth more than the engine
WHERE CAN I BUY ONE? I LIVE IN CANADA
Nunavut
accumulators will save your engine, heres one we are cleaning after an engine failure
An engine failure can be pretty much anything, not just oil related.
If you'd have followed the series, you'd know the engine failed because an aftermarket piston broke
Yeah just sounded ironic is all,
Hahaha I thought the same thing 😂
Sam taylor bearings were still intact 🤷♂️😁
The real question is how many times did you say "accumulator" lol
Only thing I don't like about it is taking away from the factory look, even if it's in the boot.
It for race cars and drag cars not everyday drivers
welp....i guess im buying an oil accumulator
Why can't I see the comments?
i haven't got 1 in my car because i'm broke :(
chebly well can’t be that broke if you own a car
I dont have one coz I’m driving my mums Hyundai i20. Not really required haha
Be surprised lol
How else do people keep their mad beats from dimming the lights?
Thumbs up for saying GTR and not GDR.
I prefer GDR over here in straya
#straya
#bogan
Boyles law
More like blinkerfluid storage
Well blinker fluid is stored in residual dual resistance cap pods these days...so just replace the pod and your good to go and no more storage tanks like the old days.
Stupid idea if you have a oil issue then set it up properly,i.e baffles,head returns,external pump or dry sump.
Not all engines have aftermarket baffles and big sumps available so this is a good otion. not everyone can afford dry sump with unlimited budget. plus, as we said in video, NASCAR and Sprint cars use them. Go tell them to do things properly :)
@@MotiveVideo arr nascar have drysump setups,what iam saying if u have a circuit car or drag car and you know your gonna get oil surge you design a sump/pickup system where you dont get that issue it only takes a second to drop oil pressure and it's all ova,why use a bandaid/accumulator to do this job,when u can go drysump and never have a issue,do u really think a driver doin 200kph is say oh we dropped oil pressure let's just turn on the accumulator to save the engine??? Not a great way,and yes you can get an aux ch on the haltech to turn it on if pressure drops,but I say get rid of oil surge vs you saying wait for surge the turn ur lever...
essentially wouldn't an oil cooler be a similar but more efficient approach?
How would an oil cooler maintain oil pressure? It's a little bit of extra oil in the system but not pressurized.
@@NotnaRed actually it would be pressurized from the pump and would prevent a little starvation depending on how big the oil cooler is. Although it isn't pressurized by air it is condensed by the cooling effect and more oil can pass through the system. And it wouldn't be something that is computer controlled or switch controlled. But I can see the benefit of an air pressurized accumulator and maybe a hybrid system with a cooler.
Andrew "Whats up everyone" Hawkins.