My thoughts exactly. Even on the same bike, changing the rear setup by small increments can give a significantly different feel to the front end. #HeadScratching
@@wesleyhanson1457 they really should have said that at the start of the video. Was confusing and he covered a lot of technical stuff so leaving that out is weird.
totally agree. but i think that if you are skilled and have lots if experience you can tell if the difference that you are feeling are down to the fork or the bike
As much as that'd be nice, a rhythm fork only comes as OEM, meaning the people that video would be relevant to would be a smaller group than some other comparison, say revelation to bomber z2, therefore it wouldn't be as effective as making a comparison that applies to everyone.
The Rhythm and the Revelation are surprisingly good forks. Those forks came on a demo Santa Cruz Hightower (RS) and Stumpjumper (Fox). I recently bought a used Rhythm.
@@yoondaman316 i know i know! i just switched from a pike rc to a 34 rythm doing a mullet conversion! I think for most people a comparison between budget/oem-spec forks would be way more interesting. :)
@@adamneulander im not sure... most people are riding oem-speced bikes and are *not* considering spending a grand on a new fork. But if youre planning on buying a new bike you often have to chose between RS or Fox parts so it would be good to know their strenghts and weaknesses to make a better decision when choosing what new bike you want to buy
Big fan of the 36...but I got a lyric on my second bike and found it much easier to work with and an easier riding feel. Same appears to be between the 38 and the Zeb. Id gladly spend my $$ on a Zeb, save some weight, and time in fiddling the setup. It also looks a bit better, more modern lines in the the design than the fox.
Unless you are an EWC/UCI-DH-level basher or/and a 100+kg advanced rider - you'll be unable to make a difference between these 38mm forks and the 36/lyrik forks and it also takes a pro Enduro or DH racer to be capable of properly test these forks - not just a mid-skilled jurno (no offence). for 80% ppl 34/pike is more than enough... a valid application for the 38mm forks would be aggressive ebikes, like Commencal Meta Power.
@@onemanmob6756 I m definitely a random not super skilled or heavy rider. Still there is a big difference for me between a Pike and a 36. With the 38 ZEB its probably overkill, if you are not living next to a bikepark.
Whoa! Difficult assignment there. And nicely done. I’m pretty sure which one would feel better to me - thanks to your detailled evaluations. Thanks. And good luck. Nice videography also.
Nice test mate. Good tech content and explanations. Excellent neutral assessments and verdict. So everybody can set their own priorities and decide based on their preferences and riding style. Ans as you stated there are really no winners or loosers here. These forks are so well developed that the vast majority of people (and I include myself) could not even find or analyse those minute differences.
I currently am running rockshox both front and rear but i still miss the suspension of my old bike. the rockshox is good but nothing beats fox if you ask me. but to be honest. i'm on the lyric fork and the positives the fox have aren't big compared to the lyric. but the rear shock however makes a bigger difference. so big in fact that i'm seriously considering spending the money to get a fox rear shock for my bike instead of the "special" rockshox shock. it is the shock that rockshox and trek worked together to make but i still haven't fallen in love with it even after over a year of riding.
In my opinion, its not worth the extra money, the performance difference is marginal. If you compare the 950$ fox 38 with the 950$ rockshox zeb, the zeb is just better. To me its the same fork.
Rythym feels just about exactly the same as a fox performance, it just has a heavier chassis. Yari uses the motion control damper which is old and not very good, but the fork still feels buttery and the air spring is great.
Yari is aftermarket fork while rhythm is OEM only with a lot of limitation in options department. And pink bike is not exactly a "make a wish" channel. For cheaper forks your only option is to watch what is on YT, no one is making comparisons as a viewer request content as they're not hype enough products
I'm a big fan with both brand as with my first mtb comes with a fox suspension but ended up liking more the perf and quality of Rs after years.. And that's why Zeb is better IMO faster to dialed, top tier perf and better aesthetics😊👍🏻👊 btw great comparison👍🏻👍🏻
Well their geometry is almost identical (only 0.5° or less different in seat tube and headtube angles) and they have the same rear shock, so the differences shouldn't be too different. Having the same frame would have probably been a good idea though (Nukeproof even makes a Rockshox equipped version: the RS, although then the rear shock would have changed as well).
Agreed.. The Cool kid in me wants to like the Fox more, but the reality is I’ve been hassle free with my ZEB on my Megatower LT for the last 5months! Simple to setup and get feeling good on the trail in minimal time.. No CSU clicking either.. Huge Positive!
@@jamble7k well I’d say the same.. just sent my fox 36 back to the factory 3 times last year only to get it back and have it creek again.. so I took my chances on the ZEB and can say I must have hit the lottery kuz no issues after 5-6 months of hard abuse
@@TeamCykelhold yea but a bike that is ment to run these forks is going to be around 30 pounds no matter what you do to save weight so does it really matter in the end
It adds up. if you keep thinking weight doesn't matter at all, your 30 pnd will become 37 and it most certainly will matter when you pedal it. I'm not saying it's the most important factor, but it does matter. For me, i'd much rather have a mezzer than both of these forks. It's stiff enough (37mm stanchions) and it weighs 2kg, and the damper is great.
Interesting. My new bike is coming with a 38 (and a fox coil). I really value ease of set up (now that I have kids/job and would rather ride than tinker) I don't want to fiddle with suspension I just want to set it up and forget about it. I don't have time anyone to learn the dark arts of suspension wizardry. I'm disappointed to hear fox recommend settings are pants at such a price point I'd expect it to be idiot proof and no tinkering. On my work tools I now only buy stuff that has constant repeatable reliable set up vs have to double check alignment etc everytime you move something. Check for shipping damage/defects when I first get them is about as much as I can bear!
Put in coils in either fork and now we're talking!!! That said I've always preferred Rockshox. From the first Judys(circa 1995) to the Boxxers on my old DH rig, they've always been bomber (Hmm, Marzocchi coils are excellent too).
Did you use both forks on the same bike ? I'm asking because the headtube angle seems different between the 2 bikes in this video. Imho this might also influence the behaviour of the forks...
fax, performace elite is just as good, looks better imo, and is cheaper. From what’ve heard, kashima reduces friction by less then 1% so basicly you cant notice it, no matter how good you are.
But it does look way nicer, so there's that. In all seriousness, the best explanation I've heard is that Factory and Performance Elite feel identical when new/freshly serviced, but Kashima feels better/smoother for longer between servicing, theoretically allowing you to go a little longer between services. Is that enough to warrant the price difference? Not really, but if you want to blow that extra money, at least you're technically getting something back for it.
that is common if you're a lighter rider or don't push your bike very hard because the charger dampers are too overdamped for those scenarios. RockShox's fault really
@@pathfindr_ I think that’s more to do with the air spring. The 38 new air spring is just simply a better design from just about every comparison and it’s a bit more tunable whereas most people find themselves with 0 tokens in the RS Zeb/Lyrik and still have a fairly high ramp up at end of travel. I’ve really liked my lyrik with HC97 but I’m trying the 38 on my new frame whenever it comes. The better sensitivity and improved air spring design sound impressive.
Interesting to see you arrive at a different conclusion than some other head to head videos favoring the Fox, which reinforces the notion that they're close on performance.
Most head to head comparisons focus almost entirely on their performance, where the 38 has the edge (as mentioned in the end of this video). But Pinkbike have reasoned that unless you're a pro, you'll probably appreciate the easier setup and lower price of the Zeb more than any performance difference. If I remember correctly, WWC and The Lost Co. both considered this comparison basically a draw depending on what you prefer; outright performance, or value and ease of use.
@@gpearce11 WWC and Lost Co are cool groups, but they are also trying to sell product. Especially since many brands are selling out this year, it wouldn’t make sense for them to favor a product.
@@mikes.8305 While that is very true, I do appreciate that even after they always say "they're both great, and you can't go wrong with either", both Chris from WWC and Mike from TLC make sure to tell us which product they personally prefer. Mike, for example, was very clear that the Zeb is the better choice of you're happy with a fork that feels 95% dialed, and is very quick to get to 95%. But he also said that his preference was the Fox 38, because even though it takes way longer to purposely set up, he can get it 100% dialed (he actually said almost exactly the same thing about the Super Deluxe vs Float X2, so this may be a more general Rockshox vs Fox thing). Ironically, in an earlier 36 vs 38 video he said that because he a small rider he actually still prefers the lighter 36, finding the 38 to stiff, which was a nice reminder that not every latest and greatest product is actually better for everyone.
I’m pretty sure if I were getting one of those I’d go for the zeb dual air. I currently have a lyrik dual air and very much like the travel drop feature for climbing.
I think you're correct, and that's why I prefer the Zeb. Many reviews I've seen/read give the 38 the tiniest edge in overall performance once set up properly, but for 99% of riders the simpler and faster set-up, not to mention lower weight and price, are more important that an almost unnoticeable performance difference.
I would trust the rockshox more for reliability and consistency. The Fox is great if you like playing with adjustments and sending it away for repairs. ive never had a Fox fork or shock that wasn't a pain in my ass
I definitely don't feel like my 38 rides low in the travel, as was mentioned. The fork sits up so much so that I had to reduce the travel on mine. I normally overfork my bikes due to the riding I do.
Yes was surprised to hear that. Was wondering if there was something wrong with his fork? I ride the new 36. I run it well below recommended pressure (75 vs 82psi) and doesn’t ride low especially with a little LSC.
Solid video. Appreciate all the details and opinions. I'm researching a replacement for a Yari Ultimate on my Trek Rail 9.7. It would be cool and nice to have the bleed ports that are on both of the latest of these models, however I'll be just fine with a 22' Zeb for just over $700 US.
Most of the complaints seem to be that the fox is harder to setup. I can only assume that’s aimed at the grip2 damper that has more settings, this can’t exactly be used as a bad point. The charger 3 has virtually the same adjustments now. Between equivalent forks there’s no major difference between them, zeb vs 38/lyrik vs 36 etc. You cannot compare the fork without factoring in which damper it is.
Seems like you got too many spacers in the 38, which will prevent a complete use of the travel, but also moves the "working area" deeper down the travel. With less spacers and maybe even a little less sag this could probably have been fixed.
the sr suntour epicon/epixon makes the 32 look like utter garbage.. the 32 flexes too much when it hits a medium sized rock when braking but idk abt the sid i never tried one before
It is normal that my foc 38 grip 2 vvc has only 7 high compression clicks if in the manual I have seen that it has 8? I have opened the cartridge and the guide it has for the clicks is well mounted and I only manage to get the 7 clicks out of it, is it normal? Thank you
I like to think I ride pretty hard, but the 38 just wasn’t much better than my already excellent 36. Not worth the upgrade unless your running at least 180mm travel or you weight much more than my 175lbs. Looks cool though.
@@jorisressing3626 lol you missed the entire marketing campaign behind the 38. I’m telling you dampening and air spring feel very similar in my experience, and while I can’t usually ride a 34 because of flex, I have never thought about a 36 being to flexible.
@@mikes.8305 well on one side you could just believe marketing crap or you could look at what actually makes a difference which is the revised air spring which is better for lighter riders (funnily enough) and the revisions to the grip 2 damper (not exclusive to the 38 though).
@@jorisressing3626 haha so true! I’m just saying after running both for a few months back to back the dampening felt very similar between the “new” 36 and the 38. The air pressures were different, but they felt about the same riding. All I know if for me I prefer to save weight with the 36 or swap out the air spring for a “smash pot”
He told us the settings he ended up (which is a good think and thank you) but he never said us: 1. Forks travel 2. His weight. Unless i missed that. So could you also share the above info?
I dont need any of these forks for my type of riding, but the zeb ultimate had a discount of 250$ off! I'm looking at the marzocchi z1 and zeb ultimate, why are they the same price. I just click and bought the zeb.
Any Clyde's on here test them both? I upgrade from a 36 to a 38 and the fork pressures are around max for me to almost reach sag. I'm 120kg kitted out on a Devinci AC. I'm assuming due to the Zeb air spring the pressures wouldn't be as high.
Im the same weight as you and run my zeb select plus at 60psi with one token at 22% sag, amazing how little pressure this fork needs, oh and i got it for $1100 nearly new whereas the cheapest second hand 38 ive seen was $2100...
@@samc821 I didn't pay retail thankfully, thanks for confirming my thoughts though. I would definitely by the zeb if upgrading again..... Happy trails.
I would love either fork, currently riding lyrik on my YT decoy, I want to upgrade but not sure whether to get new Zeb or 38 or convert my lyrik with vorsuprung smashpot coil.
I love Fox, both for their performance and that sexy, sexy Kashima, and if money was no object I'd run a 38 Factory (plus Float X2 Factory shock and Transfer Factory dropper, mostly for aesthetic reasons). However, for my own (limited) funds and skills, I'd take the Zeb. The Select+ and Ultimate are both cheaper and lighter than their Performance Elite and Factory equivalents, and it's possible to do a Yari/Revelation to Lyrik/Pike conversion equivalent, by buying the noticeably cheaper Zeb Charger RC and later upgrading to the Ultimate's Charger 2.1. I also appreciate the Rockshox noticeably simpler and faster set up, both because slightly less adjustments is easier for someone with less than pro level skills (i.e. me), and because literally everyone should include a sag guide on the stanchions (has RS trademarked this, or is everyone else just lazy?).
Every fox shock or fork ive owned has had too many issues. Ive sent a 2 yr old x2 back 4 times. Finally sent me a new one and its already got air in the damper 2 months old. Fox takes care of customers but issues are are too often
using it is what counts. i met a kid in mexico with a crappy bike just laughing at all foreigners who couldn't keep up with their 5k plus bikes (he was the guide by the way)
I think mentioning personal suspension settings is a bit of a waste of time. I run a 170mm travel Fox 38 and initially used the standard settings but I’m now running no tokens, as they made it feel harsh, and I’m running about 10psi less than the recommended settings and I’m also 75kg fully kitted. How your running up to 110psi I have no idea 🤷🏼♂️ The static sag setting must be way off.
Well, it depends on the source. If you see the video from bikeradar, with a lot more fork models, Fox 38 comes as a winner. And I have to say that I have a Fox 36 Rythmn and it performs better that a Lyrik R from 2 of my friends.
@@micaelpereira953 I think Pink made the right decision here. Most comparisons I've seen or read, including the bikeradar one, give the 38 the edge in performance, and Dan even said in the end of this video that once set up correctly the 38 does perform better than the Zeb (albeit not by much). However, unless you're a pro, you probably aren't skilled enough to really notice or properly appreciate the difference, and the Zeb's lower price and much simpler overall setup are more noticeable advantages for most riders. TLDR; the better performing (but more expensive and harder to set up) Fox 38 is arguably the better option for Pro EWS riders (although Sam Hill may disagree), but the average rider would be better served with the cheaper, lighter, easier to setup, Rockshox Zeb.
The presenter places a lot of weight on ease of setup. It makes sense since most people are not very good with fork setup. The Grip 2 really needs a rider that understands it IMO.
@@Dude-Smellmyhelmet I actually disagree. As someone who works at a shop and is the main suspension guy, Fox products last really long. I find that forks/rear shocks from Rockshox can degrade much faster in a year than a Fox fork.
How do they compare to the Manitou MEZZER EXPERT which is about 15% less expensive? 160mm travel and all the same features as RockShox and Fox. Yeah, there are other options - especially for those building their own bikes.
I’m not a racer and I don’t set records, as I used the fox 36 and will stay on it, this is an excellent fork and certainly no worse than 38. Stifer forks aren't always that good.
I don't know what people are talking about. I love the presenter. Easy to understand and very informative.
Testing forks on two bikes with different geometry ... Seems legit
My thoughts exactly. Even on the same bike, changing the rear setup by small increments can give a significantly different feel to the front end. #HeadScratching
They only used the two bikes for filming. All testing was done on the RAAW. Check out the article on pinkbike
@@wesleyhanson1457 they really should have said that at the start of the video. Was confusing and he covered a lot of technical stuff so leaving that out is weird.
😂😂😂😂
@Blah Blah well, admittedly, fox works better in small increments hands down, BUT I would always pick RS since its cheaper to buy and service tbh
would it not of made more sense to use the exact same bike, wheels, tyre pressures etc (no hate)
have*
@@rasmusvedel of is the verb
totally agree. but i think that if you are skilled and have lots if experience you can tell if the difference that you are feeling are down to the fork or the bike
How about the same travel? Fox 170mm, ZEB 180mm
@@dylanmartin6405 that is not true. Would it not have is the correct way to write it.
i'd like to see a similar test for the cheaper rythm/performance/RC models from fox/rockshox!
As much as that'd be nice, a rhythm fork only comes as OEM, meaning the people that video would be relevant to would be a smaller group than some other comparison, say revelation to bomber z2, therefore it wouldn't be as effective as making a comparison that applies to everyone.
The Rhythm and the Revelation are surprisingly good forks. Those forks came on a demo Santa Cruz Hightower (RS) and Stumpjumper (Fox). I recently bought a used Rhythm.
@@yoondaman316 I've heard of people buying takeoff rhythms, is that worth it over buying a bomber z2 or z1
@@yoondaman316 i know i know!
i just switched from a pike rc to a 34 rythm doing a mullet conversion!
I think for most people a comparison between budget/oem-spec forks would be way more interesting. :)
@@adamneulander im not sure... most people are riding oem-speced bikes and are *not* considering spending a grand on a new fork.
But if youre planning on buying a new bike you often have to chose between RS or Fox parts so it would be good to know their strenghts and weaknesses to make a better decision when choosing what new bike you want to buy
Super looking track, great to see some European content coming through!!!
would love to see more like this in the future
Rockshox are so easy to set up, and often cheaper and lighter
Not that weight matters if you are buying a zeb
I have never had a Fox fork or shock that didn't give me tons of problems.
There is also the fact that Rockshox give you twice as long a warranty compared to fox.
But fox offers more stiffness and support, feels more safe I think, I like fox more.Not about looking
@@joshporter5773 they're basically Fox rhythm forks sooo... no thanks
The Zeb is the sickest Fork in my opinion 😍😍
*opinion
Have you used both?
@@pgbmxrler crickets... LOL
1:46 here it starts to become Obvious that the presenter didnt get enough sleep last night
adding to fall asleep playlist
Big fan of the 36...but I got a lyric on my second bike and found it much easier to work with and an easier riding feel. Same appears to be between the 38 and the Zeb. Id gladly spend my $$ on a Zeb, save some weight, and time in fiddling the setup. It also looks a bit better, more modern lines in the the design than the fox.
0:14 that’s what she said
thats... kinda the joke
Ahhh, Nice 👌
I love how im watching this as if I need either of these forks when my local trails need a fox 34 or rockshocks pike at most 😂
Who cares what trails you ride bigger is better always;)
Right!? I have a Pike and it's more than enough for 99% of the trails I ride. It's just cool to listen to and keep up with the Fork wars!
Unless you are an EWC/UCI-DH-level basher or/and a 100+kg advanced rider - you'll be unable to make a difference between these 38mm forks and the 36/lyrik forks and it also takes a pro Enduro or DH racer to be capable of properly test these forks - not just a mid-skilled jurno (no offence).
for 80% ppl 34/pike is more than enough...
a valid application for the 38mm forks would be aggressive ebikes, like Commencal Meta Power.
@@onemanmob6756 I m definitely a random not super skilled or heavy rider. Still there is a big difference for me between a Pike and a 36. With the 38 ZEB its probably overkill, if you are not living next to a bikepark.
@@gesundheitstips2197 You must then be within those remaining 20% - savour it 🙂
love the fox 38 it just sticks to the ground really well
Let's just admit that their both extremely high end and well performing forks from two of the leading brands
Whoa! Difficult assignment there. And nicely done. I’m pretty sure which one would feel better to me - thanks to your detailled evaluations. Thanks. And good luck. Nice videography also.
Nice test mate. Good tech content and explanations. Excellent neutral assessments and verdict. So everybody can set their own priorities and decide based on their preferences and riding style. Ans as you stated there are really no winners or loosers here. These forks are so well developed that the vast majority of people (and I include myself) could not even find or analyse those minute differences.
I currently am running rockshox both front and rear but i still miss the suspension of my old bike. the rockshox is good but nothing beats fox if you ask me.
but to be honest. i'm on the lyric fork and the positives the fox have aren't big compared to the lyric. but the rear shock however makes a bigger difference. so big in fact that i'm seriously considering spending the money to get a fox rear shock for my bike instead of the "special" rockshox shock. it is the shock that rockshox and trek worked together to make but i still haven't fallen in love with it even after over a year of riding.
FOX 38 FOR SURE!!! Easy Win!
In my opinion, its not worth the extra money, the performance difference is marginal. If you compare the 950$ fox 38 with the 950$ rockshox zeb, the zeb is just better. To me its the same fork.
I think you have to watch the video again.
@@hannesnohl8627 He's entitled to his opinion, as is everyone. Mine is that Fox wins....easy! :D I love my Fox Forks.
@@theferociousmuncher1771 if you are buying the fork alone sure, bikes equipped with the zeb ultimate or 38 factory are usually close in price tho
@@jamble7k and in performance
Someone get this guy some CAFFINE !!!
And some caffeine as well !!
@@ifonly4486 and maybe some more caffeine
@@TheNuclearBolton and a side of caffeine
Try some Kaphagne.
Pls make a video where you compare the Yari with the Rhythm
Rythym feels just about exactly the same as a fox performance, it just has a heavier chassis. Yari uses the motion control damper which is old and not very good, but the fork still feels buttery and the air spring is great.
Sell either fork. If you need to keep either one, keep the fox. Based off the performance version from fox.
@@jamesbeauchamp7934 You can upgrade both of them to whatever damper/coil you want, so that's not really an issue either.
Yari is aftermarket fork while rhythm is OEM only with a lot of limitation in options department. And pink bike is not exactly a "make a wish" channel. For cheaper forks your only option is to watch what is on YT, no one is making comparisons as a viewer request content as they're not hype enough products
I'm a big fan with both brand as with my first mtb comes with a fox suspension but ended up liking more the perf and quality of Rs after years.. And that's why Zeb is better IMO faster to dialed, top tier perf and better aesthetics😊👍🏻👊 btw great comparison👍🏻👍🏻
A lot of MTBers that I know say that Fox is overrated. But I have not used one, so I don't easily know what to respond but "I have not idea."
Another quality PB video. Testing TWO different forks on TWO different bikes. Gotta love PB's "feel facts"
Well their geometry is almost identical (only 0.5° or less different in seat tube and headtube angles) and they have the same rear shock, so the differences shouldn't be too different.
Having the same frame would have probably been a good idea though (Nukeproof even makes a Rockshox equipped version: the RS, although then the rear shock would have changed as well).
@@gpearce11 swap forks bike to bike mid-day
Agreed.. The Cool kid in me wants to like the Fox more, but the reality is I’ve been hassle free with my ZEB on my Megatower LT for the last 5months!
Simple to setup and get feeling good on the trail in minimal time..
No CSU clicking either.. Huge Positive!
csu creak can happen on the zeb also, it's just pot luck
@@jamble7k well I’d say the same.. just sent my fox 36 back to the factory 3 times last year only to get it back and have it creek again.. so I took my chances on the ZEB and can say I must have hit the lottery kuz no issues after 5-6 months of hard abuse
I think if your concerned about weight while picking a fork with 38 mil stantions then you might be on the wrong bike
10% weight increase is 10% no matter if it's heavy to begin.
@@TeamCykelhold yea but a bike that is ment to run these forks is going to be around 30 pounds no matter what you do to save weight so does it really matter in the end
It adds up. if you keep thinking weight doesn't matter at all, your 30 pnd will become 37 and it most certainly will matter when you pedal it. I'm not saying it's the most important factor, but it does matter. For me, i'd much rather have a mezzer than both of these forks. It's stiff enough (37mm stanchions) and it weighs 2kg, and the damper is great.
@@TeamCykelhold ok
Great video guys! 💪🏻
Interesting. My new bike is coming with a 38 (and a fox coil). I really value ease of set up (now that I have kids/job and would rather ride than tinker) I don't want to fiddle with suspension I just want to set it up and forget about it. I don't have time anyone to learn the dark arts of suspension wizardry. I'm disappointed to hear fox recommend settings are pants at such a price point I'd expect it to be idiot proof and no tinkering.
On my work tools I now only buy stuff that has constant repeatable reliable set up vs have to double check alignment etc everytime you move something. Check for shipping damage/defects when I first get them is about as much as I can bear!
Thank you for this clear explanation. I tried the two forks. You might agree with me if we talk about durability. Fox is clearly superior
38 is my favorite fork of all time
why exactly? :)
Put in coils in either fork and now we're talking!!! That said I've always preferred Rockshox. From the first Judys(circa 1995) to the Boxxers on my old DH rig, they've always been bomber (Hmm, Marzocchi coils are excellent too).
Why two different bikes...?
This is what I needed I don’t know which one to get
same!
Don’t write off the DVO Onyx, a seriously impressive third option
ruclips.net/video/LlcCiPj74KQ/видео.html
zeb for buget, fox performance elite otherwise. kashima is for money-no-object/snobs.
@Joplin Murphy yep, the BikeRadar comparison is far better.
Did you use both forks on the same bike ? I'm asking because the headtube angle seems different between the 2 bikes in this video. Imho this might also influence the behaviour of the forks...
1 isn't better than the other. it's just what he likes
No levy or kaz?
kashima is marketing hype imo
fax, performace elite is just as good, looks better imo, and is cheaper. From what’ve heard, kashima reduces friction by less then 1% so basicly you cant notice it, no matter how good you are.
But it does look way nicer, so there's that. In all seriousness, the best explanation I've heard is that Factory and Performance Elite feel identical when new/freshly serviced, but Kashima feels better/smoother for longer between servicing, theoretically allowing you to go a little longer between services.
Is that enough to warrant the price difference? Not really, but if you want to blow that extra money, at least you're technically getting something back for it.
@@gpearce11 for me they look like rusty stantions
I bought the 38. I feel the damping on the rockshox was to harsh. Small bump sensitive wasn't there for me.
that is common if you're a lighter rider or don't push your bike very hard because the charger dampers are too overdamped for those scenarios. RockShox's fault really
which damping?
@@pathfindr_ I think that’s more to do with the air spring. The 38 new air spring is just simply a better design from just about every comparison and it’s a bit more tunable whereas most people find themselves with 0 tokens in the RS Zeb/Lyrik and still have a fairly high ramp up at end of travel. I’ve really liked my lyrik with HC97 but I’m trying the 38 on my new frame whenever it comes. The better sensitivity and improved air spring design sound impressive.
Hmm, that's usually a common complaint I see of the fox not the RS. And having used both, I feel the same. All fox forks are too harsh in my opinion
I just ordered a bike with the zeb and I am very excited to give it a try.
I just got mine... its unbelievably good!!
@@daveybmtb same
Better then the 38?
@@bert3566 honestly from what I have heard I would say the zeb is about the same if not better because of the zebs price.
Interesting to see you arrive at a different conclusion than some other head to head videos favoring the Fox, which reinforces the notion that they're close on performance.
Most head to head comparisons focus almost entirely on their performance, where the 38 has the edge (as mentioned in the end of this video). But Pinkbike have reasoned that unless you're a pro, you'll probably appreciate the easier setup and lower price of the Zeb more than any performance difference.
If I remember correctly, WWC and The Lost Co. both considered this comparison basically a draw depending on what you prefer; outright performance, or value and ease of use.
@@gpearce11 WWC and Lost Co are cool groups, but they are also trying to sell product. Especially since many brands are selling out this year, it wouldn’t make sense for them to favor a product.
@@mikes.8305 While that is very true, I do appreciate that even after they always say "they're both great, and you can't go wrong with either", both Chris from WWC and Mike from TLC make sure to tell us which product they personally prefer.
Mike, for example, was very clear that the Zeb is the better choice of you're happy with a fork that feels 95% dialed, and is very quick to get to 95%. But he also said that his preference was the Fox 38, because even though it takes way longer to purposely set up, he can get it 100% dialed (he actually said almost exactly the same thing about the Super Deluxe vs Float X2, so this may be a more general Rockshox vs Fox thing).
Ironically, in an earlier 36 vs 38 video he said that because he a small rider he actually still prefers the lighter 36, finding the 38 to stiff, which was a nice reminder that not every latest and greatest product is actually better for everyone.
And Im still with my Totem rc2hd, to which I cant see any reasonable successor
Pretty sorry for you then, cuz the lyric ive been using over the last few years is not even a comparsion to that old turd youre using
@@Beli4l youre blessed with "I dont know what Im talking about" man ;) Im happy for you :)
The servicing time window would make the choice for me ... .
I’m pretty sure if I were getting one of those I’d go for the zeb dual air. I currently have a lyrik dual air and very much like the travel drop feature for climbing.
I don’t think you can get the zeb in duel air
Well, makes me feel that I bought my Zeb for the right reasons. Can't wait for mine to show up!
at this point in time i genuinely feel only pros would notice the differnence between both forks there are both so good
I think you're correct, and that's why I prefer the Zeb. Many reviews I've seen/read give the 38 the tiniest edge in overall performance once set up properly, but for 99% of riders the simpler and faster set-up, not to mention lower weight and price, are more important that an almost unnoticeable performance difference.
I would trust the rockshox more for reliability and consistency. The Fox is great if you like playing with adjustments and sending it away for repairs. ive never had a Fox fork or shock that wasn't a pain in my ass
@@Dude-Smellmyhelmet with the fox do you have to always send it away
@@basicmtber3840 Everything can be done at home but you'd need to locate a bunch of weird tools and of course all the parts and lubes
@@Dude-Smellmyhelmet oh right yeah with the rockshox i believe you only need the specific tool for that top cap thing
That’s interesting,I took my 38 out of the box,used the setup instructions on the website and it’s perfect 🤔
@@lewisnotgriffin maybe i did🤭
Fox is super hard to get perfect. But they pay off once you do
"Bolt on fender is Available" I mean... Maybe "available" isn't the best word for that right about now...
Top notch review cheers!
I’m surprised you need 12psi more than recommended on the 38. I need 12psi less than recommended to get to barely 10% sag.
Anyone else had that experience?
I definitely don't feel like my 38 rides low in the travel, as was mentioned. The fork sits up so much so that I had to reduce the travel on mine. I normally overfork my bikes due to the riding I do.
Yes was surprised to hear that. Was wondering if there was something wrong with his fork? I ride the new 36. I run it well below recommended pressure (75 vs 82psi) and doesn’t ride low especially with a little LSC.
He was testing in Chambery which is super steep terrain and could account for a little higher pressure, but happy to hear I am not the only one..
I also ride it with less pressure than recommended. It now has 30% sag and if i hit big jumps etc. there is still 15mm travel left
shouldnt they put it on the same bike?
Well I was sure I wanted the 38 and now I gotta start thinking it over again lol
Everyone compares the fox 38 factory with the zeb, but, one mentions which Zeb. There’s Zeb ultimate, Zeb select, and Zeb select plus!
Are those clicks "jordi-clicks" (from fully closed) or do you count them from fully open like shown in this clip?
Hi, do you test the ZEB with Tokens?
Great comparison. Cheers! 👍
Solid video. Appreciate all the details and opinions. I'm researching a replacement for a Yari Ultimate on my Trek Rail 9.7. It would be cool and nice to have the bleed ports that are on both of the latest of these models, however I'll be just fine with a 22' Zeb for just over $700 US.
Well done, nice comparison. I would ride both ^^
Sorry mate what's your weight? To have a better reference or yout settings?
That’s just great, as if I needed another component to add to the wish list 😆
Most of the complaints seem to be that the fox is harder to setup. I can only assume that’s aimed at the grip2 damper that has more settings, this can’t exactly be used as a bad point. The charger 3 has virtually the same adjustments now. Between equivalent forks there’s no major difference between them, zeb vs 38/lyrik vs 36 etc. You cannot compare the fork without factoring in which damper it is.
Seems like you got too many spacers in the 38, which will prevent a complete use of the travel, but also moves the "working area" deeper down the travel. With less spacers and maybe even a little less sag this could probably have been fixed.
I have a Trek.Procaliber 9.7 with Rockshock Reba that did not work from the start so they made a Debon air upgrade. And man is this fork great.
I would love and XC version of this, with the SID and 32
the sr suntour epicon/epixon makes the 32 look like utter garbage.. the 32 flexes too much when it hits a medium sized rock when braking but idk abt the sid i never tried one before
Nice work 👊
Would you not use a hard tail since your testing the front suspension, so the back doesn’t distract you?
Thanks for this good vidéo 👌
It is normal that my foc 38 grip 2 vvc has only 7 high compression clicks if in the manual I have seen that it has 8? I have opened the cartridge and the guide it has for the clicks is well mounted and I only manage to get the 7 clicks out of it, is it normal? Thank you
which is softer the fox or the zeb?
Can you run the nukeproof mega 290, with 180mm fork and coil on the rear ?
Is that the sram centerline 2 piece rotor up front on the zeb? If so where can I find one in 200mm the largest I have been able to find is 180mm
Great video! Would have loved to see some break-down of either fork in the b-roll
I like to think I ride pretty hard, but the 38 just wasn’t much better than my already excellent 36. Not worth the upgrade unless your running at least 180mm travel or you weight much more than my 175lbs. Looks cool though.
The 38 is not really about stiffness but more about the different airspring it allows
@@jorisressing3626 lol you missed the entire marketing campaign behind the 38. I’m telling you dampening and air spring feel very similar in my experience, and while I can’t usually ride a 34 because of flex, I have never thought about a 36 being to flexible.
@@mikes.8305 well on one side you could just believe marketing crap or you could look at what actually makes a difference which is the revised air spring which is better for lighter riders (funnily enough) and the revisions to the grip 2 damper (not exclusive to the 38 though).
@@jorisressing3626 haha so true! I’m just saying after running both for a few months back to back the dampening felt very similar between the “new” 36 and the 38. The air pressures were different, but they felt about the same riding. All I know if for me I prefer to save weight with the 36 or swap out the air spring for a “smash pot”
I love rockshox!!, La mejor! 🙌 👍🏻 💕
Is it weird if I run rockshox front fox rear
I like Dan
He told us the settings he ended up (which is a good think and thank you) but he never said us:
1. Forks travel
2. His weight.
Unless i missed that.
So could you also share the above info?
On the pinkbike article it says he's 75kg
Hey guys i have a GT SENSOR COMP ALLOY 2020 and i would like to upgrade the fork and i'm thinking about getting the ZEB, would it fit in my bike?
this is great in depth vid.. but only wanna know what they feel like... my head is spinning rn with all these specs lol
I dont need any of these forks for my type of riding, but the zeb ultimate had a discount of 250$ off! I'm looking at the marzocchi z1 and zeb ultimate, why are they the same price. I just click and bought the zeb.
Just curious why not use the same bikes?
Any Clyde's on here test them both? I upgrade from a 36 to a 38 and the fork pressures are around max for me to almost reach sag. I'm 120kg kitted out on a Devinci AC.
I'm assuming due to the Zeb air spring the pressures wouldn't be as high.
Im the same weight as you and run my zeb select plus at 60psi with one token at 22% sag, amazing how little pressure this fork needs, oh and i got it for $1100 nearly new whereas the cheapest second hand 38 ive seen was $2100...
@@samc821 I didn't pay retail thankfully, thanks for confirming my thoughts though. I would definitely by the zeb if upgrading again..... Happy trails.
I would love either fork, currently riding lyrik on my YT decoy, I want to upgrade but not sure whether to get new Zeb or 38 or convert my lyrik with vorsuprung smashpot coil.
Buen video, gracias por la información!!!
I love Fox, both for their performance and that sexy, sexy Kashima, and if money was no object I'd run a 38 Factory (plus Float X2 Factory shock and Transfer Factory dropper, mostly for aesthetic reasons).
However, for my own (limited) funds and skills, I'd take the Zeb. The Select+ and Ultimate are both cheaper and lighter than their Performance Elite and Factory equivalents, and it's possible to do a Yari/Revelation to Lyrik/Pike conversion equivalent, by buying the noticeably cheaper Zeb Charger RC and later upgrading to the Ultimate's Charger 2.1.
I also appreciate the Rockshox noticeably simpler and faster set up, both because slightly less adjustments is easier for someone with less than pro level skills (i.e. me), and because literally everyone should include a sag guide on the stanchions (has RS trademarked this, or is everyone else just lazy?).
Every fox shock or fork ive owned has had too many issues. Ive sent a 2 yr old x2 back 4 times. Finally sent me a new one and its already got air in the damper 2 months old. Fox takes care of customers but issues are are too often
These forks be more than my bike
using it is what counts. i met a kid in mexico with a crappy bike just laughing at all foreigners who couldn't keep up with their 5k plus bikes (he was the guide by the way)
For the Zeb I need adaptors to disk brakes ?
nope you don't need for 200mm but you can't run 180mm
Why don't more manufacturers offer a choice in which one you want?
Somebody understood where exactli in Switzerland he is?
Interesting that the Fox is lacking mid support, when all of the rest of its offerings are known for superior mid support!
F 38 is great seems like the adjustment is getting out of hand tho
agreed
My Z1 Has The Sweep Works Awesome Adj On The Fly😎
That was great!
Great comparison content.
Thanks.
Now compare apples and oranges with a Zeb vs Z1 coil. ;)
The bolt on Fender is sano. .
I think mentioning personal suspension settings is a bit of a waste of time. I run a 170mm travel Fox 38 and initially used the standard settings but I’m now running no tokens, as they made it feel harsh, and I’m running about 10psi less than the recommended settings and I’m also 75kg fully kitted. How your running up to 110psi I have no idea 🤷🏼♂️ The static sag setting must be way off.
Like you said. Waste of time lol
Dang I would've expected the 38 to win that shootout.
Well, it depends on the source. If you see the video from bikeradar, with a lot more fork models, Fox 38 comes as a winner. And I have to say that I have a Fox 36 Rythmn and it performs better that a Lyrik R from 2 of my friends.
@@micaelpereira953 I think Pink made the right decision here. Most comparisons I've seen or read, including the bikeradar one, give the 38 the edge in performance, and Dan even said in the end of this video that once set up correctly the 38 does perform better than the Zeb (albeit not by much).
However, unless you're a pro, you probably aren't skilled enough to really notice or properly appreciate the difference, and the Zeb's lower price and much simpler overall setup are more noticeable advantages for most riders.
TLDR; the better performing (but more expensive and harder to set up) Fox 38 is arguably the better option for Pro EWS riders (although Sam Hill may disagree), but the average rider would be better served with the cheaper, lighter, easier to setup, Rockshox Zeb.
The presenter places a lot of weight on ease of setup. It makes sense since most people are not very good with fork setup. The Grip 2 really needs a rider that understands it IMO.
Rockshox is more reliable. Much more. Fox is great if you like playing with adjustments and doing maintenance or sending it away for repairs
@@Dude-Smellmyhelmet I actually disagree. As someone who works at a shop and is the main suspension guy, Fox products last really long. I find that forks/rear shocks from Rockshox can degrade much faster in a year than a Fox fork.
Price aside, i prefer the 38, it matches my riding style more.
OH MY GAWD, I want to ride there.
Rockshox is the best🔥
Simple tunning and simple for maintenance 👍
RXF 38 M.2 for the win!
How do they compare to the Manitou MEZZER EXPERT which is about 15% less expensive? 160mm travel and all the same features as RockShox and Fox. Yeah, there are other options - especially for those building their own bikes.
Excellent video! Can relate to the rockshox lowers being tight for hubs and having to spread the lowers to get the tire in!
I’m not a racer and I don’t set records, as I used the fox 36 and will stay on it, this is an excellent fork and certainly no worse than 38. Stifer forks aren't always that good.
0:14 is that a sex joke?
Sam you are not a ninja turtle.
Accept your Human hull.
Quite fancy myself the manitou Mezzer