What do you think about Seb's test? Have you been lucky enough to ride one of these forks? Let us know what you think should be the winner in the comments! 🍴
After watching this video (which was very interesting by the way) I only realize I need to learn a lot more about how suspensions really work instead of just fiddling with the knobs and hope for the best... 🙄
Best review on the internet... At last a review with understandable insight and technical backup. Not a "review" to just get one early in, but something of value.
I have similar rebound settings on my dhx2 like you had on the 38. I have no clue why fox's tune is so weird that you open lsr completely and close hsr nearly completely. Little weird balance /tune
Seb - you are by the the most competent, coherent, comprehensive and entertaining reviewer/tester of MTB products on RUclips. Not overly dumbed down down (most reviews are sucking eggs really), some nice pro-tips and lateral comments which are honest and good to know (e.g. how much stiffness makes a difference in fork vs wheel/tyre) and price consideations or how the Lyrik would still be the better buy in many circumstances. Hope someone at BikeRadar gives you a raise & allows you to dedicate more of your working hours to these sorts of more intricate tests (e.g. for rims or tyres/compounds, cockpit setup, bike sizing, different progressivity's of coils etc).
Yes this type of review with more technical details is what every magazine should do.who is interested can pick up important details who is no can only be focused on riding characteristics. Please continue :)
Unique approach to quality control 😂😂 finally someone who says it how it is. Watch some of hambini's videos and they'll ruin your opinion of your favourite brands
@@erich8258 The fact is with pressfit on bike BBs you get more often than not crooked and misaligned bearing surfaces, therefore threaded BBs are actually less problematic overall. Pressfit could be better, but not with these manufacturing tolerances.
@@erich8258 agree with you, but at the end, all we want is less issues, more creak free riding. noone cares about theoretically better solution if practice is different...
please, dont let anyone else on bikeradar (Ok, Tom Marvin is also good) test mtb equipment. You are soo spot on in your analysis and personally you are one of my go to sources for reliable product information.
I think it was one of the better MTB reviews I’ve watched so far. Very detail, but to the point that it keeps it interesting and not boring at all. Very Clear with great explanation. Not too long, but not to short ether. Great job! Much Appreciated !!! P.S. Subscribed ✅
@@sebstott3573 Hi seb great review. Its sad to hear that you left bikeradar. Are you still gonna be tester/presenter somewhere on youtobe? I have also couple questions for you connected with the test result. Have your opinion changed since the review? Are you still rating Lyrik as the fork you would buy for your own money? Do you think light (160lbs with gear) riders would benefit from 38mm stansions? I have also read that fox don't have enough rebound adjustments for light riders do you have any information about it? I will be gratefull if you find a moment to answer those questions. Cheers mate
Seb's videos are my favourite! I would love reviews on less mainstream products, like that Privateer, or a comparison between the zeb, 38, mezzer and era, or even selva.
Absolute best reviewer in the business. He provides and opinion that is backed by solid, creative and “empirical” testing. His suspension reviews are just spot on. Seb, since you love those long and slack bikes, you own a machine, and have a relationship with Mojo... when are you giving us a detail comparison between your machine and the G1?? Keep making this quality content!
I love the technical analysis! Most bike reviews are just spooky magic placebo, and it's really nice to see things actually being measured. I'd love more technical analysis for tire grip and stuff like that. (Also rolling resistance, but bicyclerollingresistance already does a great job with that)
Thanks. Bicycle rolling resistance is a great resource. I've done many roll down tests and constant power tests in the past, but it's difficult to keep all the variables constant (wind and temperature etc.). I'm not sure if testing rolling resistance on a drum is all that useful for MTB, due to the more concave shape of the contact patch on the drum than on the ground, and the fact that bumps can't be simulated realistically. Quantifying grip is even harder!
@@sebstott3573 I'd think you'd be able to get somewhere by putting a constant weight on a bike, and seeing how much force it takes to pull the bike forward with the brakes locked up, on a consistent surface. That's perhaps quite far from "real world" but i'd think that that would allow you to compare tires quite well.
I suspect the reason the fox is substantially stiffer longitudinally is the fact it uses an elliptical steerer tube at the press fit interface with the crown. The rockshox uses a standard circular tube at the same interface
clarkie005 like to see a stiffness comparison between the zeb and 38 on a machine. He mentions the 38 is a lot stiffer than the the 36 but is it actually stiffer than the zeb? Everyone always thought the 36 was stiffer than the lyrik which isn’t true, the lyrik is actually much stiffer, manitous testing for the mezzer showed that. The mezzer was only just stiffer than the lyrik in the end but a lot more than the 36
Got a Fox Factory 38 (not the latest) coming in the post for my Commencal Clash (mullet'ed, so a 29er fork). It's replacing a '20 Fox Factory 36 (Orange) 🧡 Can't wait to see how it performs 🤘
holy cow this is an awesome piece. great work seb. i really wish there was enough time to get your thoughts on all sus forks, including your thoughts on air vs coil, memorable forks, and more. perhaps a multipart bikeradar podcast on this, much like the suspension tuning episode. I've not found any other media that matches the thoroughness of your testing procedures, nor as open about subjective vs objective, and pitfalls in testing methodology. This is the kind content that keeps me coming back for more. Give this man a raise, this is pure quality.
Finally some informative review I love this style of reviews! The only thing what I'm missing here is comparison with Manitue Mezzer as this is potentially best SC fork on the market.
Fantastic review. Amazing to see actual measured data to validate your observations... this is the first ZEB vs. 38 review video that provided real, useful info for a prospective buyer (like me).
This is exactly the review people need when trying to figure out what is better to buy out there. Looking forward to seeing more of this, maybe comparing shocks also. Anyway, hats of mister Seb.
Best 38 to ZEB comparison out there. I was waiting for the rebound settings of the 38 and got myself confirmed in running the low speed rebound of my 36 faster than the high speed rebound... pretty much as with my X2 at the rear. Rebound is really the setting, where I don’t wanna miss the separate high and low speed adjusters, whereas the compression damping gets weird when low and high speed settings are too much apart. Thx for the super nice review, keep up the good work 👍🏻
I loved absolutely everything of this video. The level of detail and the explanatory vocabulary was perfect. All personal inputs were very objective and super appreciated. You were able to transmit all of your points very well using spot on words. Exactly what I personaly would want to know to make a very well educated decision. Thank you very much!
Really nice indepth review, with someone actually knowing hiw different factors affect each other and not somebody only reading the datasheet and going for how they 'feel'.
Great review! A detailed techy review is the only way I want to spend my time watching a review. Any idiot could claim that a certain product is great if they didn't have to explain why.
Great report and testing! You hit the nail on the head regarding the urban legend "the fore-aft flex offers more grip and less fatigue". More fore-aft flex offers only more friction on the bushings and the wipers, therefore worse small bumps compliance, because the stanchions are not diving into the bushings axially. I ride the 38 and I agree that in corners you do not feel the stiffness difference that much - if you even feel any. On the contrary, in steep sections you feel big difference in the maneuverability of the bike - it feels more accurate in steering - and it allows you to drive faster and safer. This a a very nice upgrade - if you neglect the additional cost.... Never rode the ZEB though - I am really curious to test it now.
I can confirm what he said about the air spring on the zeb. Too harsh over light and mid sized bumps, but it hasnt got enough support in the super steep stuff and heavy braking zones. Im looking foreward to buy the formula foam volume spacers, which woul give the zeb the same spring caracteristics as the fox 38. This guy knows what hes talking about!
More nerdy stuff! Seb I really appreciate your evidence-based, logical approach to your reviews and info vids. More generally you guys (across YT and your podcasts) have become my go to for MTB and road info. Keep it up!!
Great review here. I really enjoy getting into the specifics of suspension performance and setups as it relates to mountain biking. Please keep doing reviews like this. I know a lot about suspension but there is always more I can learn. Also, I completely agree that Fox’s rebound recommendations are on the slow side for the 38. I found this to be the case setting up my 38, but the recommendations for previous forks were pretty spot on, so something to keep in mind for new 38 owners.
Nice review. I have the Fox 38 on my bike and a Fox rear damper. I love them. Unfortunately, th eprice difference between Rockshox and Fox has become unbearable. In Germany, I could buy the Zeb for 700€, while the Fox retails for the double price. Even though I love the 38 and don't need tokens for the Parc, etc, I hate the fact to pay 1 grand more for the bike, just because it has Fox written on the suspension!
Excellent review, Im 200 pounds and own AllMTN e-bike , Stock fork was 160 mm yari and I replaced with 180mm ZeB fork Best investment ever . I think anyone Who’s an aggressive Rider, has heavy bike and or weighs over 200 pounds needs a 38mm fork
Amazing review. It is always good to have done more info, technical stuff cause in the end there will be plenty of similar videos, but you can get most value giving us the most info and also comparison as you did some with other forks and money wise, etc.
Everything is on point, I ride a ZEB fork and I felt that, I never tried a fox 38 to compare tho. BUT I would like to add that there is a way to make the ZEB super comfortable by adding 3/4 tokens and reducing considerably the pressure, way lower than “recommended” settings. It used to be super harsh at the beginning of the travel, now it is softer and comfy. Tokens are indispensable or else you just bottom out every jump with low pressure. Try this fork again with these kinds of settings, it feels like a fully different (and better) fork.
Super-nerdy is Über good. Thanks a lot. Your review has the ring of truth to it. And I’ve watched it through at least twice now. It seems to me that deciding which fork you prefer is probably easy, given enough testing time. Being able to coherently articulate those differences so others can make use of your findings is where the real skill - if not genius - shows. More super-nerdy stuff. Yes, please. And good luck to you.
Interesting to compare this review with pink bike, since they end up on kind of the opposite sides of the fence. My own view is that the differences between these forks are so subtle and marginal that they end up being pretty difficult to distinguish in terms of actual ride. Which is really the bottom line in both pink bike and this review as well. But it’s always fun to compare!
Very detailed review. Seemed to give a balanced opinion and he clearly understand how suspension works and how to tune it. Interestingly the comments about the Zeb I have experienced the same with my 2020 Lyric Ultimate. Good to know he rates it highly though
The best review so for and I would say almost impossible to beat by another bike channel, you should try the fox 38 performance, everybody is just focusing on the high end stuff and theres a bunch of people that we are the set it and forget it type, I personally own a fox 38 performance but have no clue how it compares to others or at least some feedback about how it performs.
Solid review that presents really useful data and I like that the final decision was - let's save a few bucks because they're both so good. Please continue with this format!
I really enjoyed the review. The technical stuff was great! I am currently looking at getting a Commencal Meta Power SX Race that comes with the Zeb Ultimate. It sounds like the 38 is better and the Zeb struggles a little bit with controlling it's travel. I dont think it'll stop me from buying the bike as I'm sure it's still a great fork, just not the best.
Best reviews on YT! Thanks Seb for your diligence and scientific approach and not rushing to be the first one to post their 'reviews'. On the new 38mm diameter forks in general - personally, I believe that unless one is really heavy and/or a world-class, super aggro rider (e.g. Richie Rude), one will not be able to fully unleash the potential of these new forks, nor will they be able to tell a difference (in a blind test) between these and the Fox 36 / Lyrik. One other realistic application for these new forks may be e-bikes, where e.g. fox 36, with the 34 internals was struggling. I personally am happy that the appearance of these 38mm forks takes the edge (marketing- and price-wise) off the fox 36 /Lyrik, making them moreaffordable
Really like these type of tests and Seb you are great at these btw. So many reviews fail to mention the cost. In the real world most people are governed by that as THE most limiting factor. I recently upgraded my fork on my Levo to the ZEB. In truth I would have liked to go for the Fox but the £400 (at least) difference has gone to upgrading my shock. Early days with the ZEB and still tuning but I find it feels way more stable than old fork, early stroke not as noticeable but still playing with the set-up. Def more support deep into the travel and seems to change direction more willingly (but that might be in my head).
Fantastic review, Seb. Absolutely love the very detailed technical analysis, the subjective ride feel and the real world comments. This way everybody can decide if the costs are worth it to you. Keep up the wonderful work. I really appreciate the effort you put into it. AndyB
Sounds like the Zeb needed a volume spacer. It sounds just like my 2019 36 with no spacers, firmer at the top and blows through the mid. I've experimented at ton with the 36 and it needs 2 volume spacers to work well imo. It allows for lower pressure making it softer on the to and gave the mid and end more support, especially noticeable on the steeps.
This is by far the most objective review of these two forks on RUclips. Great work you guys! I have three questions though. 1. Can the results, especially the more comfortable feeling of the 38 be transferred to a heavier rider (100kg) on a heavier eMTB? On eMTBs I actually heard the exact opposite, ZEB being the more comfortable fork. 2. How does rider weight generally affect the behavior of the fork especially in the first part of the travel? This question also refers to your thoughts on the 2021 debonair spring. 3. I'm currently riding a 2020 Specialized Levo with a 2020 Lyrik Ultimate 150 up front and am I'm getting hand fatigue on rocky and rooty sections pretty quickly. Unfortunately the previous owner of the bike cut the fork very short so that I'm actually riding a 18mm lower cockpit than on my previous Levo I got stolen in August. So with my current setup I can't go up with spacers, nor with stem or bar, since I run a single clamp Intend stem that only allows up to 20mm rise. I was thinking about upgrading to a 160mm 2021 airspring to compensate around 20mm in ride height (10mm more travel + airspring letting the fork run around 10mm higher in it's travel) and trying this setup, before upgrading to a ZEB or 38. Your review made me thinking to eventually keep the Lyrik and upgrade to a 2020 160 or 170 airspring. I don't wanna lose climbing capabilities though. It's a tough one. I really liked the Lyrik over my previous 36 Performance on softer terrain. Thanks in advance Seb!
Best review on youtube. I bought the 38s and watched them all. I wasn't ever really sure the difference between the two even after watching a coupple dozen videos. Everyone else just goes over the details on spec but never talk about what they feel on the trails. Perhaps they just don't know how to explain it. Great job.. Ps loose that black box. The feel Mos all you need if you know how to test.
Not too nerdy at all! Enjoyed the review, and the specific differences, both subjective and measured. Respectfully disagree with regard to the idea that fork stiffness can't create harshness.... i've (subjectively) found my DVO Onyx dual crown to be less harsh than a Fox 40.... and previous versions of the 40 were more harsh than the newer versions, which were actually modified to be less stiff for that exact reason. You may be correct in the single crown arena though.... maybe we can't (yet) create a single crown that is too stiff to the point of harshness... I suspect it's more about resonant frequencies and vibration than flex though... although slight deflection of the fork can be better than deflection of the whole bike (knocked off line).
Seb is the best reviewer out there! While I've never owned one, why is there so little info on Manitou Suntour or some of the less common (in the 'premium variant) brands? What if they are actually better and no one is telling us?
Great review! I already bought the 38 Performance Elite for my Trek Slash, but it’s always good to try and understand the actual, on the trail, differences between these two burly forks. I love needing out on MTB spec lol
good points. you did not mention your high and low speed compression setting on the 38. Im planning to copy your suspension set up on the 38 and maybe tweak it a little bit from there. I feel like i dont get much small bump sensitivity on the 38.
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What do you think about Seb's test? Have you been lucky enough to ride one of these forks? Let us know what you think should be the winner in the comments! 🍴
After watching this video (which was very interesting by the way) I only realize I need to learn a lot more about how suspensions really work instead of just fiddling with the knobs and hope for the best... 🙄
I love this Technical analysis! Do more!
Best review on the internet... At last a review with understandable insight and technical backup. Not a "review" to just get one early in, but something of value.
Please more detailed setup and tech reviews. We've enough basic setup videos about sag and then trying out for yourself.
I have similar rebound settings on my dhx2 like you had on the 38.
I have no clue why fox's tune is so weird that you open lsr completely and close hsr nearly completely. Little weird balance /tune
This guy is the best in the suspension department. What he says is usually what's true
MORE OF NERDY REVIEWS!!!!! Its way more interesting than "oh this feels good" "oh this feels bad"
Sometimes I want to say English please when he gets really into it
Seb - you are by the the most competent, coherent, comprehensive and entertaining reviewer/tester of MTB products on RUclips. Not overly dumbed down down (most reviews are sucking eggs really), some nice pro-tips and lateral comments which are honest and good to know (e.g. how much stiffness makes a difference in fork vs wheel/tyre) and price consideations or how the Lyrik would still be the better buy in many circumstances. Hope someone at BikeRadar gives you a raise & allows you to dedicate more of your working hours to these sorts of more intricate tests (e.g. for rims or tyres/compounds, cockpit setup, bike sizing, different progressivity's of coils etc).
Well said.
Yes this type of review with more technical details is what every magazine should do.who is interested can pick up important details who is no can only be focused on riding characteristics. Please continue :)
Unique approach to quality control 😂😂 finally someone who says it how it is. Watch some of hambini's videos and they'll ruin your opinion of your favourite brands
Exactly, and you'll roll your eyes every time someone talks about the superiority of threaded bottom brackets.
@@erich8258 The fact is with pressfit on bike BBs you get more often than not crooked and misaligned bearing surfaces, therefore threaded BBs are actually less problematic overall. Pressfit could be better, but not with these manufacturing tolerances.
@@silentsnipercbdk this is only because of bad QC, which is the point of the original comment.
@@erich8258 agree with you, but at the end, all we want is less issues, more creak free riding. noone cares about theoretically better solution if practice is different...
please, dont let anyone else on bikeradar (Ok, Tom Marvin is also good) test mtb equipment. You are soo spot on in your analysis and personally you are one of my go to sources for reliable product information.
I think it was one of the better MTB reviews I’ve watched so far.
Very detail, but to the point that it keeps it interesting and not boring at all. Very Clear with great explanation. Not too long, but not to short ether.
Great job!
Much Appreciated !!!
P.S.
Subscribed ✅
Thanks! 👍
@@sebstott3573 Hi seb great review. Its sad to hear that you left bikeradar. Are you still gonna be tester/presenter somewhere on youtobe? I have also couple questions for you connected with the test result. Have your opinion changed since the review? Are you still rating Lyrik as the fork you would buy for your own money? Do you think light (160lbs with gear) riders would benefit from 38mm stansions? I have also read that fox don't have enough rebound adjustments for light riders do you have any information about it? I will be gratefull if you find a moment to answer those questions. Cheers mate
I really like your reviews 👌 honest 👏
Thanks for watching our reviews!
Fantastic technical review. No silly music and effects! Thanks!!
Seb's videos are my favourite! I would love reviews on less mainstream products, like that Privateer, or a comparison between the zeb, 38, mezzer and era, or even selva.
Really loved this comparison! Can't wait to see how they do against the lyrik and 36 respectively!
not to be mean to the other guys doing their reviews, but your description of these forks really helps in the decision. awesome work
Really enjoyed the technical comparison! Being an engineer first and a rider second, I really appreciate the more scientific approach
We need more of this kind of test .
Absolute best reviewer in the business. He provides and opinion that is backed by solid, creative and “empirical” testing. His suspension reviews are just spot on.
Seb, since you love those long and slack bikes, you own a machine, and have a relationship with Mojo... when are you giving us a detail comparison between your machine and the G1??
Keep making this quality content!
I love the technical analysis! Most bike reviews are just spooky magic placebo, and it's really nice to see things actually being measured.
I'd love more technical analysis for tire grip and stuff like that. (Also rolling resistance, but bicyclerollingresistance already does a great job with that)
Thanks. Bicycle rolling resistance is a great resource. I've done many roll down tests and constant power tests in the past, but it's difficult to keep all the variables constant (wind and temperature etc.). I'm not sure if testing rolling resistance on a drum is all that useful for MTB, due to the more concave shape of the contact patch on the drum than on the ground, and the fact that bumps can't be simulated realistically. Quantifying grip is even harder!
@@sebstott3573 I'd think you'd be able to get somewhere by putting a constant weight on a bike, and seeing how much force it takes to pull the bike forward with the brakes locked up, on a consistent surface.
That's perhaps quite far from "real world" but i'd think that that would allow you to compare tires quite well.
Good format, liked the detail. Missed a few graphs of that suspension data. Loved the conclusion (Lyrik owner here) :D
I suspect the reason the fox is substantially stiffer longitudinally is the fact it uses an elliptical steerer tube at the press fit interface with the crown. The rockshox uses a standard circular tube at the same interface
clarkie005 like to see a stiffness comparison between the zeb and 38 on a machine. He mentions the 38 is a lot stiffer than the the 36 but is it actually stiffer than the zeb? Everyone always thought the 36 was stiffer than the lyrik which isn’t true, the lyrik is actually much stiffer, manitous testing for the mezzer showed that. The mezzer was only just stiffer than the lyrik in the end but a lot more than the 36
Keep up the nerdy stuff. 👌
Thanks for the feedback, we're sure to have more in-depth nerdy videos in the future!
The most accurate and objective comparison that one can find.. Good job!
Got a Fox Factory 38 (not the latest) coming in the post for my Commencal Clash (mullet'ed, so a 29er fork).
It's replacing a '20 Fox Factory 36 (Orange) 🧡
Can't wait to see how it performs 🤘
holy cow this is an awesome piece. great work seb. i really wish there was enough time to get your thoughts on all sus forks, including your thoughts on air vs coil, memorable forks, and more. perhaps a multipart bikeradar podcast on this, much like the suspension tuning episode.
I've not found any other media that matches the thoroughness of your testing procedures, nor as open about subjective vs objective, and pitfalls in testing methodology. This is the kind content that keeps me coming back for more.
Give this man a raise, this is pure quality.
i think this is exactly how a good fork test should be, we can actually be confident in your opinion, perfect, now please do the same for brakes :)
FIne! the 38's better, but damn that ZEB looks way better
And its like half the price (in the real world, not msrp)
Agree!
Yea
fox 38 looks great in black
@@pizzagorgonzola it’s more of the boxed arch compared to the 38’s rounded one. And the decals as well
This video finally explained me what fox floating axle is for. thanks
One of the best bike part reviews I have seen, plenty of detail amd honesty. Keep it up.
Finally some informative review I love this style of reviews! The only thing what I'm missing here is comparison with Manitue Mezzer as this is potentially best SC fork on the market.
Fantastic review. Amazing to see actual measured data to validate your observations... this is the first ZEB vs. 38 review video that provided real, useful info for a prospective buyer (like me).
This is exactly the review people need when trying to figure out what is better to buy out there. Looking forward to seeing more of this, maybe comparing shocks also. Anyway, hats of mister Seb.
Best 38 to ZEB comparison out there. I was waiting for the rebound settings of the 38 and got myself confirmed in running the low speed rebound of my 36 faster than the high speed rebound... pretty much as with my X2 at the rear. Rebound is really the setting, where I don’t wanna miss the separate high and low speed adjusters, whereas the compression damping gets weird when low and high speed settings are too much apart.
Thx for the super nice review, keep up the good work 👍🏻
I loved absolutely everything of this video. The level of detail and the explanatory vocabulary was perfect. All personal inputs were very objective and super appreciated. You were able to transmit all of your points very well using spot on words. Exactly what I personaly would want to know to make a very well educated decision. Thank you very much!
Thanks for watching, we're glad you enjoyed it! From all at BikeRadar.
Really nice indepth review, with someone actually knowing hiw different factors affect each other and not somebody only reading the datasheet and going for how they 'feel'.
Great review! A detailed techy review is the only way I want to spend my time watching a review. Any idiot could claim that a certain product is great if they didn't have to explain why.
Great to see the "feel" first, followed by "sciencing" and seeing how the two then correlate together. Very good reviewing there folks.
Great report and testing! You hit the nail on the head regarding the urban legend "the fore-aft flex offers more grip and less fatigue". More fore-aft flex offers only more friction on the bushings and the wipers, therefore worse small bumps compliance, because the stanchions are not diving into the bushings axially.
I ride the 38 and I agree that in corners you do not feel the stiffness difference that much - if you even feel any. On the contrary, in steep sections you feel big difference in the maneuverability of the bike - it feels more accurate in steering - and it allows you to drive faster and safer. This a a very nice upgrade - if you neglect the additional cost.... Never rode the ZEB though - I am really curious to test it now.
I can confirm what he said about the air spring on the zeb. Too harsh over light and mid sized bumps, but it hasnt got enough support in the super steep stuff and heavy braking zones. Im looking foreward to buy the formula foam volume spacers, which woul give the zeb the same spring caracteristics as the fox 38. This guy knows what hes talking about!
What a difference to other reviews. I like your calm and sorted attitude! Thanks!
Like the style, like the tech detail. More of it please, really like hearing from people who clearly have a wealth of testing experience and knowledge
More nerdy stuff! Seb I really appreciate your evidence-based, logical approach to your reviews and info vids. More generally you guys (across YT and your podcasts) have become my go to for MTB and road info. Keep it up!!
This type of review is exactly what I look for and their just aren’t enough out there so more of these please
Great review here. I really enjoy getting into the specifics of suspension performance and setups as it relates to mountain biking. Please keep doing reviews like this. I know a lot about suspension but there is always more I can learn. Also, I completely agree that Fox’s rebound recommendations are on the slow side for the 38. I found this to be the case setting up my 38, but the recommendations for previous forks were pretty spot on, so something to keep in mind for new 38 owners.
I Loved this review. It was the perfect balance of technical stuff without getting too techy.
Nice review. I have the Fox 38 on my bike and a Fox rear damper. I love them. Unfortunately, th eprice difference between Rockshox and Fox has become unbearable. In Germany, I could buy the Zeb for 700€, while the Fox retails for the double price. Even though I love the 38 and don't need tokens for the Parc, etc, I hate the fact to pay 1 grand more for the bike, just because it has Fox written on the suspension!
Seb does the most in-depth reviews on the net. Period!
I’ve watched many comparative test between these two forks and this is by far the best, very objective and scientific one! Good job 👏🏻
Excellent review, Im 200 pounds and own AllMTN e-bike , Stock fork was 160 mm yari and I replaced with 180mm ZeB fork Best investment ever . I think anyone Who’s an aggressive Rider, has heavy bike and or weighs over 200 pounds needs a 38mm fork
respect, how much love you put into the detailed testings and try to balance between your feels and the pure data! Regards from Hannover (GER)!
10000 views in one day. I find this is really good, the mountain bike world is fire these days
Amazing review. It is always good to have done more info, technical stuff cause in the end there will be plenty of similar videos, but you can get most value giving us the most info and also comparison as you did some with other forks and money wise, etc.
So between the zeb and the 38 just buy a Lyrik
Everything is on point, I ride a ZEB fork and I felt that, I never tried a fox 38 to compare tho.
BUT I would like to add that there is a way to make the ZEB super comfortable by adding 3/4 tokens and reducing considerably the pressure, way lower than “recommended” settings.
It used to be super harsh at the beginning of the travel, now it is softer and comfy.
Tokens are indispensable or else you just bottom out every jump with low pressure.
Try this fork again with these kinds of settings, it feels like a fully different (and better) fork.
Please please please more of these nerdy in depth reviews. Absolutely awesome content and so much opportunity to use this format on other products.
I'd love to see a 2021 grip 2 36 vs 38 video next. Then a Zeb vs Lyrik.
Super-nerdy is Über good. Thanks a lot. Your review has the ring of truth to it. And I’ve watched it through at least twice now.
It seems to me that deciding which fork you prefer is probably easy, given enough testing time.
Being able to coherently articulate those differences so others can make use of your findings is where the real skill - if not genius - shows.
More super-nerdy stuff. Yes, please. And good luck to you.
Interesting to compare this review with pink bike, since they end up on kind of the opposite sides of the fence. My own view is that the differences between these forks are so subtle and marginal that they end up being pretty difficult to distinguish in terms of actual ride. Which is really the bottom line in both pink bike and this review as well. But it’s always fun to compare!
Very detailed review. Seemed to give a balanced opinion and he clearly understand how suspension works and how to tune it. Interestingly the comments about the Zeb I have experienced the same with my 2020 Lyric Ultimate. Good to know he rates it highly though
Best fox 38 vs Zeb review on RUclips hands down
Finally.. was waiting for a back to back test on these 2.
Seb makes the best reviews in the mountain bike industry imo
Fox 38 vs RockShox Zeb
Winner:
RockShox Lyrik
Which was good as thats what i run, so no need to change.
Great review. Best I’ve seen on this. Like to see comparison between fox 36, 36espec, and 38. Cheers; good work.
The best review so for and I would say almost impossible to beat by another bike channel, you should try the fox 38 performance, everybody is just focusing on the high end stuff and theres a bunch of people that we are the set it and forget it type, I personally own a fox 38 performance but have no clue how it compares to others or at least some feedback about how it performs.
Solid review that presents really useful data and I like that the final decision was - let's save a few bucks because they're both so good. Please continue with this format!
I really enjoyed the review. The technical stuff was great! I am currently looking at getting a Commencal Meta Power SX Race that comes with the Zeb Ultimate. It sounds like the 38 is better and the Zeb struggles a little bit with controlling it's travel. I dont think it'll stop me from buying the bike as I'm sure it's still a great fork, just not the best.
Great review and just the right amount of "nerdiness" to be useful for understanding the difference and even for setting up a fork.
Love these suspension test! This is what was searching for!
My 38 came with my new Specialized Enduro, and while I’ve rarely ridden a Rock Shox fork of any kind, this Fox is velvety smooth and so stiff.
Best reviews on YT! Thanks Seb for your diligence and scientific approach and not rushing to be the first one to post their 'reviews'.
On the new 38mm diameter forks in general - personally, I believe that unless one is really heavy and/or a world-class, super aggro rider (e.g. Richie Rude), one will not be able to fully unleash the potential of these new forks, nor will they be able to tell a difference (in a blind test) between these and the Fox 36 / Lyrik.
One other realistic application for these new forks may be e-bikes, where e.g. fox 36, with the 34 internals was struggling.
I personally am happy that the appearance of these 38mm forks takes the edge (marketing- and price-wise) off the fox 36 /Lyrik, making them moreaffordable
I've been waiting for this review for a long time. I can't wait to get home open a beer and watch this video.
Really like these type of tests and Seb you are great at these btw. So many reviews fail to mention the cost. In the real world most people are governed by that as THE most limiting factor. I recently upgraded my fork on my Levo to the ZEB. In truth I would have liked to go for the Fox but the £400 (at least) difference has gone to upgrading my shock. Early days with the ZEB and still tuning but I find it feels way more stable than old fork, early stroke not as noticeable but still playing with the set-up. Def more support deep into the travel and seems to change direction more willingly (but that might be in my head).
Fantastic review, Seb. Absolutely love the very detailed technical analysis, the subjective ride feel and the real world comments. This way everybody can decide if the costs are worth it to you. Keep up the wonderful work. I really appreciate the effort you put into it. AndyB
This is EXACTLY the test I have been looking for. Thanks! SUBSCRIBED!
Sounds like the Zeb needed a volume spacer. It sounds just like my 2019 36 with no spacers, firmer at the top and blows through the mid. I've experimented at ton with the 36 and it needs 2 volume spacers to work well imo. It allows for lower pressure making it softer on the to and gave the mid and end more support, especially noticeable on the steeps.
Best review on these two forks I've seen... Very informative. Keep up the good work
You’ve got the perfect guy for this review I was just hanging on every word
This is by far the most objective review of these two forks on RUclips. Great work you guys!
I have three questions though.
1. Can the results, especially the more comfortable feeling of the 38 be transferred to a heavier rider (100kg) on a heavier eMTB? On eMTBs I actually heard the exact opposite, ZEB being the more comfortable fork.
2. How does rider weight generally affect the behavior of the fork especially in the first part of the travel? This question also refers to your thoughts on the 2021 debonair spring.
3. I'm currently riding a 2020 Specialized Levo with a 2020 Lyrik Ultimate 150 up front and am I'm getting hand fatigue on rocky and rooty sections pretty quickly. Unfortunately the previous owner of the bike cut the fork very short so that I'm actually riding a 18mm lower cockpit than on my previous Levo I got stolen in August. So with my current setup I can't go up with spacers, nor with stem or bar, since I run a single clamp Intend stem that only allows up to 20mm rise. I was thinking about upgrading to a 160mm 2021 airspring to compensate around 20mm in ride height (10mm more travel + airspring letting the fork run around 10mm higher in it's travel) and trying this setup, before upgrading to a ZEB or 38.
Your review made me thinking to eventually keep the Lyrik and upgrade to a 2020 160 or 170 airspring. I don't wanna lose climbing capabilities though.
It's a tough one. I really liked the Lyrik over my previous 36 Performance on softer terrain.
Thanks in advance Seb!
Best review on youtube. I bought the 38s and watched them all. I wasn't ever really sure the difference between the two even after watching a coupple dozen videos. Everyone else just goes over the details on spec but never talk about what they feel on the trails. Perhaps they just don't know how to explain it. Great job.. Ps loose that black box. The feel Mos all you need if you know how to test.
Good video, I liked the format and I found it informative. I have purchased a new bike that will come with a Factory 38, I can't wait.
I think it's why a lot of the EWS riders were still using or had gone back to using the Lyrik
Love your detailed reviews not sales pitch reviews 👍.
Best zeb vs fox 38 review by far
Great review. I also agree that fox’s suggested settings tend to be on the slower side
this was way more informative than i expected, thx seb. to be clear this is perhaps the best review on bikeradar ive seen.. or most bike websites
Not too nerdy at all! Enjoyed the review, and the specific differences, both subjective and measured.
Respectfully disagree with regard to the idea that fork stiffness can't create harshness.... i've (subjectively) found my DVO Onyx dual crown to be less harsh than a Fox 40.... and previous versions of the 40 were more harsh than the newer versions, which were actually modified to be less stiff for that exact reason. You may be correct in the single crown arena though.... maybe we can't (yet) create a single crown that is too stiff to the point of harshness... I suspect it's more about resonant frequencies and vibration than flex though... although slight deflection of the fork can be better than deflection of the whole bike (knocked off line).
Seb is the best reviewer out there! While I've never owned one, why is there so little info on Manitou Suntour or some of the less common (in the 'premium variant) brands? What if they are actually better and no one is telling us?
FOX #1 in performance and looks!
this is the format more stuff should be tested in inital impressions and data to back it up and provide a comparison. top work guys keep it up
Thanks. This was the test we were all waiting for.
Great review! I already bought the 38 Performance Elite for my Trek Slash, but it’s always good to try and understand the actual, on the trail, differences between these two burly forks. I love needing out on MTB spec lol
How’s the 38 been on your slash? Currently considering a 38 for my slash 8 because I’m not a fan of the stock yari
@@aoplinger622 Loving the 38 on my slash.
Bought a 38 factory because of this review.
I was waiting for this one. In my opinion, you have the best fork review out there. Year after year. Is there a shock review coming?
Best video ever on this channel. Thanks.
The nerdier the better! Really enjoyed this review.
Very very good review. Much in depth knowledge and interesting details. I very much enjoyed this review. Keep it up!
Great video. Love the content, the opinion and how you justify your observations. More please!
So basically rockshox just made the Zeb coz Fox got the 38. Slam the same internals from the lyrik and hope for the best. Very intuitive review
Need to revisit this test with the 2023 Zeb
Excellent Review and please keep the nerdy style as it adds lot of value
Really great work with this comparison. Keep up the good work.
good points. you did not mention your high and low speed compression setting on the 38. Im planning to copy your suspension set up on the 38 and maybe tweak it a little bit from there. I feel like i dont get much small bump sensitivity on the 38.