Psychology of a Hero: SPIDER-MAN (Tom Holland)
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2022
- How much responsibility is too much? How do you face challenges in the wake of loss?
Licensed therapist Jonathan Decker and filmmaker Alan Seawright take a look at the coming of age story of Tom Holland's Spider-Man. As he faces the massive pressure from Tony Stark and the Avengers to help save the world, then loses mentor after mentor (some to death and some because they lose his respect), he makes mistakes and succumbs to feelings of anger and revenge. But, we see how good friends and mentors can help us through grief and struggles, and how Peter Parker steps into the role of a leader. And we cry, a lot.
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Written by: Megan Seawright, Jonathan Decker, and Alan Seawright
Produced by: Jonathan Decker, Megan Seawright, and Alan Seawright
Edited by: Sophie Téllez
Director of Photography: Bradley Olsen
English Transcription by: Anna Preis
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Unpopular opinion here, I know. I dont like that he doesn't tell them the truth. He made a promise and he went back on it. I think it would have been a great example of him acknowledging that you cant take someones choice from them. I dont think thats mature. And i think Ned will become a villian because he betrayed him.
Cant't wait for the Spider-Verse movie, that's my favourite Spider-Man movie! Great video guys, congrats on 1 million subs, you deserve it!
Hey Internet Dads! Can you do Jessica Jones character analysis ???
Out of curiosity, why do you keep accepting better help as a sponsor with all the current controversy about them, especially regarding better help and care dash? Johnathon, how can you accept better help as a sponsor while as a therapist knowing they are stealing other therapists, and possibly your own, information, and using it on care dash to force potential patients to use better help and to not go with that actual therapist? Other therapists are complaining that Care dash has stolen their information, including personal cell phone numbers, having a button to book time with the therapist, but saying they are not taking new patients without ever contacting the therapist and saying they can use better help instead.
I love your guys videos, but given all the recent news with better help, i'm surprised you guys are still accepting their sponsorship. I know its possible that you filmed this video before the news broke, but why haven't you addressed the issues?
Day 165 of asking: Do you think you guys could do a video on Steel Magnolias or The Joy Luck Club? They are some heart-wrenched movies that deal with grief and family bonds and womanhood that I absolutely adore.
"We treat people with respect not because of who they are but because of who we are" is such a simple but powerful message.
Perhaps it's powerful *because* it's simple.
@@NapoleonCalland both.
This was a big realization for me as a teenager. I had a truly awful principal who had it out for me. (He would later be arrested for embezzling from the school). I know he was a jerk. How could I respect him? I found myself tempted to engage in petty rebellion. But at some point I realized that I could respect someone’s position without respecting their character or choices. My parents worked hard to put me in a better school and get me out of a failing school district. My teachers worked hard to give me a challenging education. My debate coach taught me so much and opened so many doors for me, I don’t think I could ever thank her enough. I could respect that he was a cog in a machine - the best that little school in the middle of nowhere could do at that moment, and by not picking stupid fights, and trusting that my teachers’ complaints to the board would do more than my teenage rebellion made the last two years of high school much easier than the first two.
@@alexh4935 As a leader, I once responded to implicit snobbery from someone here in France who said "One does not speak to the President the way one speaks to the caissière (female checkout attendant)" with *We say "Your Excellency" to the President because they're the President, and "Madame" to the caissière because she's a lady"*
I think Jonathan Decker's point about treating people with respect because of who *you* are resonates as strongly with people who know what authority is supposed to look like, as opposed to say, people who get bullied by "petty tyrants" as you did, and show respect nonetheless, perhaps because you had healthy examples of (reasonable) authority figures and "realized that I could respect someone’s position without respecting their character or choice". I'd also like to say thank you for paying tribute to your parents and teachers, because it's a testimony in itself to the values and skills you learned from them, and will encourage others to do likewise. 🙂
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Problem is when they demand respect but don’t teach you how to give respect
Jono, when you said, "We don't treat people with respect because of who they are. We treat people with respect because of who we are." That really got me. Probably because that's who I try to be every day.
: )
I absolutely loved this quote. I've never thought of it that way before but it'd a revelation
AMEN!
Same here. I try treat everyone with respect, because it's just simply better, and benefits everyone.
With the addition of "Some adults don't deserve respect" - that is a lesson I had to learn and finally I don't let people trample over me because "they're adults and deserve respect". That's so important to know.
The scene in Homecoming when he’s trapped in the rubble and having a panic attack made me cry, it was so well acted. It felt so real and drove it home that he was just a kid who was scared. So well done.
I still struggle watching that scene. It's so raw and heartbreaking
tom holland should win an award just for that scene. not many scenes can make me want to run in and pull rubble off of a movie character...thats actually never happened it was hard to watch at first but it was so rewarding
It brought the sheer weight of that “I’m free” comic panel to life. It was a great homage
same here, he is alone, he is a kid, and he is freaking terrified...so he makes the move, he is brave, and acts like an Adult. This is really a story about a Boy, a Spider-Boy, becoming a Man, a *Spider-man*
for real
One thing they should've talked about when talking about his mentors is how in NWH, Doctor Strange doesn't act like one, he acts like a colleague, and respects Peter as such, even when he's mad at him he's not paternalizing, but rather pissed off by his flaws. Strange is that one grown up that sees us as grown ups when we start to fly out of our nests, let it be a college teacher, a boss or simply a friend.
This is such a great point it honestly upsets me that this one managed to get lost in the cracks.
I think that's actually a bad thing. I believe Peter clearly need an authority figure to restrict him because him rebelling against Dr. Strange ultimately made things worse to the point Peter needed to sacrifice himself in order to fix things. Dr. Strange should've questioned Peter's plan, questioned his motives, asked if he thought it through using legal channels before resorting to magic that overrides people's judgement.
Peter Parker is talented and has the potential to be a great hero but he's still young.
This also somewhat fits the the whole "Call me Stephen" bit. And since Peter is still not quite there it "Sounds strange" when he does call him by his name.
@@wesleywallace4426 you've got some great points there and I agree with you but I think part of the reason that Dr Strange didn't question Peter is just because of his own track record. Dr. Strange seems to have a habit of getting himself into situations that have major consequences.
Yet this was ultimately a mistake. It's not something to be glorified, but it is reflective of adult/child dynamics in 2022. Kids teach adults as much as adults teach kids today, which is stupid. It ultimately led to disaster in the film. Good lesson
I still like Andrew as spidey the most, but every time we are reminded that Tom's spidey is a teenager and very out of his depth, he sells it so heartbreakingly well.
Animated Miles Morales - favourite growth arc and favourite mentorship.
Andrew - favourite spiderman, favourite romance, Gwen is so strong and smart!
Toby - I just ... he was too goofy and all MJ did was scream and it was annoying, however, it had my favourite hero moment with the train so that's something. Also, that upside-down kiss was weird and no one can convince me it was sexy.
Tom - Favourite Peter Parker, favourite friendships, favourite villains.
Completely agree
I would say that Tom Holland is the best high school and early college Spider-Man, because he embodies that whole still figuring things out Gen-z teenage energy.
While Garfield is the best post-college, constantly on the verge of a panic attack because oh god everything is on fire but you have to pretend like everything's fine because it's what everyone expects of you because you're an "adult" now and you have a limited number of people who can/will help you (if any at all), possibly bisexual (Garfield is, apparently, and a lot of people picked up on this in his performance in NWH) mid-twenties to early thirties Millenial energy.
And as a bisexual Millenial with possible (but very, most likely) undiagnosed ADHD who is just trying to live my life, but other people keep SETTING IT ON GODDAMNED FIRE, Garfield Spider-Man just completely resonated in my very SOUL. Even though I'm a woman, I was, personality-wise, pretty much him until I hit my mid-thirties (and honestly still can lapse back into him at times, at least internally).
Andrew Garfield was/is the best Peter Parker AND Spider-Man as far.
I know that the Tobey Macguire shills are going to get me b*nned from RUclips for daring to write this down (and I love Tobey's Spider-Man) but Garfield's take unto the character has a balance of their both personaes.
Tom Holland's Spiderman is by far my favourite.
“Don’t be in a rush for adulthood.”
Reminds me of that C.S. Lewis quote about putting away childish things. “When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”
There's no point in being grown up if you don't act childish sometimes.
Since it's about the journey and not the destination.
We are all going to live the rest of our short lives from beginning to end as naive children in comparison of this wide ancient universe.
No matter how much we think we know, there's always something we don't know.
...etcetera...
True but there's a difference between childishness and being a child at heart. I think the CS Lewis quote was referring to maturity, and he's also the one who wrote (I think in the dedication for one of the narnia books) "I hope someday you'll be old enough to start reading fairy tales again."
@@caseyoung1527 the child-friendly sugarcoated versions with the happy ending or the original versions with the grim ending?
@@bittersprout3694 they said fairytales, not grimm brothers stories
@@dione__fernnn fair point, but they're still magical tales that teaches lessons. One through promises of rewards the other through warnings of consequences.
In a lot of ways, Tom Holland's Peter Parker blends the best traits of Tony Stark with the best traits of Steve Rodgers.
Peter is everything Steve and Tony could never be. He can inspire people in ways they never could.
That's so true. He's got the genius of Tony and the kind mentality of steve
@@MMZERO9 could you elaborate on that please?
@@no-2929 Tony is more confident than Peter.
@@twistedyogert No teenager is confident, it's something that's built. It's not surprising total-nerd-geek-teenager-scientist- has an actual secret identity with a lot on the line if anyone finds out- Peter Parker has very little confidence compared to playboy-philanthropist-billionare-adult with no real secret identity Tony Stark
I think Andrew was probably the closest "Spider-man". Tobey basically embodied Adult Peter Parker. And Tom Holland was the perfect iteration of Young Peter and Spiderman. Each of them brought a different energy to the roles, and all three of them killed it as their respective iterations. I love it, honestly.
Agreed!
Yeah I believe I have said that Tobey is about being peter and how that is affected by being spiderman Andrew is about being spiderman and how that is affected by being peter. Tobey had to figure out how to live as peter with the responsibility of being spiderman and even lost his powers and even lost his friend. Andrew had to figure out how to act as a hero and ended up losing Gwen because he was also peter. Even their stories about what happened as they described in no way home where Tobey stopped being spiderman and Andrew just started hitting harder as the hero was a great example of their differences. Tom is a mix but is easier due to his younger age as opposed to Tobey.
Absolutely!
"Never apologize for being the smartest person in the room." - The one piece of genuine advice Beck gives Peter in the whole movie.
He gave lots of good advice and thats why he was so nefarious.
Dangerous, too. That sounds so fucking arrogant
He's literally speaking from his own narcissism, thats not good advice its telling
I assumed in that line he might have not meant it and only said it to get peter to like him more. I agree though on half of it, like he doesn't need to apologize for asking questions or wanting to know more like he was doing
@@lissy_love64 I agree. It’s foreshadowing his true motivation, so we can believe this cool nice guy is actually a villain. Beside the fact that he’s freakin mysterio!!
Tom Holland’s Peter Parker is one of my favorite teenage characters ever.
There is always this weird portrayal of teens in media being inherently selfish, over-emotional, and self-destructive. And yeah, that can be true for a teen (even Peter in some aspects) but that’s also true for adults as well.
But teenagers have a lot of idealism and hope that a lot of us lose overtime. Peter is an extremely compassionate person who can be selfish and irresponsible, but like most teenagers he wants to do GOOD. He wants simple things like to hang out with his girlfriend or ask his crush to Homecoming. He wants to please his mentor, but also look out for the little guy. He wants to minimize his responsibilities because it’s so much pressure and he doesn’t believe in his own abilities.
Teenagers struggle so much because growing up and making sacrifices is so hard. Like other teens, Peter had to learn in the end that responsibilities are inevitable and constantly changing. There is always more work to do.
I highly concur. Tom's Peter seems a little more down to earth than the previous Spidermen. He does his best to look out for everyone, even if it takes an emotional toll on him. Plus, it helps that Tom Holland actually looks young enough to pass as a teenager, being 19 when he was cast.
This comment hits hard and idk why haha
I doubt that most teenagers want to do good. I don't think you notice how rough teen bullying can be.
I think they do an amazing job at depicting the kids just in general. Even Flash was grounded in reality more, and stuff like the morning announcements, morbid jokes, taking almost everything light heartedly, the insecurities, the selfishness and irresponsibility, trying to be an “adult”, etc.
I really enjoyed all of them.
AGREED.
26:30 Don't forget-- he's obviously at some point lost his parents. We never see that loss, but we know he is a figure born into loss.
At least with the 2018 video game, I'm not sure how much of the comics it really follows, but there is an aside in I think May's office where Peter says, "My parents were government agents, but no one can ever know."
@@uncreative5766 I hope they never pursue that in the movie. (I know they toyed with it in Andrew Garfields movies) but it just doesn't fit with the vibe.
I always thought that, like in the Spectacular Spiderman series, that Peter’s parents died in some sort of accident, like a plane crash
@@uncreative5766 iirc, in the comics Peter's parents and Uncle Ben were, I think, S.H.I.E.L.D agents.
I know it’s minor but something I’ve always loved about Peter and Tony’s dynamic is that for all Peter thinks his messages and reports are being ignored Tony casually mentions that he is genuinely paying attention to the, to the extent that he knows what clubs Peter is a part of
And the lady that gift him a churro
@@NerveUnderscore churros are pretty good, especially ones made by someones abuela after hearing someone is hungry for one
@@calebb5106 My favorites are sopaipillas tho, churros kinda make me sick xD
I love how in the end, he's broke, he's alone, but it's not a sad ending. The music as he swings in the night is beautiful, epic, and the script says "Peter Parker is no more, but Spider-Man lives on". Brings tears to my eyes to know how beautiful life can be when we do our best to help others.
idk sounds pretty depressing to me
Hm.
Yeah, cause it’s an ending full of possibility and hope. Yeah he’s not in the best position ever, but he has the power and the freedom to change that. There’s no one else to tell him how to live or how to be Peter Parker or Spider-Man. He’s finally his own man and he can make decisions for himself, and that means starting from zero.
@@gothicMCRgirl Indeed.
I wept bitter tears of rage at the end of that movie. In my eyes it was such an overwhelmingly depressing ending that it ruined everything that came before it. Interesting that there can be such wildly different takes from it
2:50 Fun fact about this line: Tom was supposed to move his leg but he forgot the blocking for the scene, so RDJ corrected him in the most Tony Stark way. Everyone loved it so much more than the original blocking, so they kept it in the final cut
wasnt the same situation in the car, where he thinks RDJ is going for a hug?
@@mr.hanfblatt9152 I think that was in the script, but the leg story was unscripted, they talked about it in multiple interviews.
I love that the "move the leg, I'm going to sit here" and the car hug exchange were impromptu RDJ shenanigans. He's phenomenal.
I came to the comments partly to see if anyone mentioned that. RDJ is so great at ad lib and Holland (who apparently had forgotten what came next) played along like a champ.
They both could have just cracked up and needed another take. Instead they created a great scene.
Tom Holland's crying acting is just devastating. There's something so vulnerable about it.
The title "No Way Home", is extremely symbolic at the end, knowing that Peter has nobody, including MJ, Ned and Aunt May, who knows his secret. He literally and figuratively has no home to go back to.
And as Peter learns how to have to navigate himself
@@Firegen1 Precisely, he's shown sewing his own suit, studying for his GED, and living alone in a dingy apartment, living with the cost of being Spiderman, and having all of his loved ones torn away from him.
@@trinaq The GED thing is the only thing that gets to me. Like come on have some mercy and give him the diploma he rightfully earned at least. But it does fit the character at this point so...
@@kmodo93 oh I KNOW I was like "he had such a bright future, and it was just all torn away THIS SUCKS!" but it's Peter. He'll figure his way around the world.
@@TheRibottoStudios That is why Toms' Spidey is my favorite. He shows the reality of life. Even adults can relate to him. Despite the character being a teenager, an adult can relate to "sh!t happens and you just have to find another way around to it". Even if you get your diploma and work hard and demonstrate all of your abilities, the reality is everything will always be given to someone else who never worked truly a day in his/her life and everything always given him/her because of nepotism or other bureaucratic BS!
Tom’s Spider-Man is the most underrated due to the fact that his struggles isn’t what “fans” go through. People forget that he is a teenager and as a teen myself his problems apply to my generation. The older generation hates this Spider-Man cause simply they don’t get it. They think we have everything, we have the technology, and everything is laid out for us but it’s not that easy. We go through the pressure of having to be successful to the point we lose ourselves trying to reach a standard that adults set for us. We are just kids but are expected to change the world. Sometimes transitioning into adulthood ain’t easy, it may take sacrifice of your youthful innocence but it’s life, and MCU Spider-Man is the one that gets this the most.
As someone who's getting older, but is still midway between generations, I'm definitely relating to this version of Spider-man. I went through a rough time as a teenager for reasons, and only as an adult now have I had to face things I typically would've faced years ago
^And along that way, I've come to really dislike the mentality of people (especially adults) "not getting X". It's not just a way to understand and connect with others, it seems like basic common sense; if you don't understand something, you go to learn about it - including, ideally, putting yourself in their shoes for a moment - not shut it out and pretend you do know (and/or judge based on your ignorance). Something I think a lot of people forget as they get older, whereas I've always made the effort to try and understand/put myself in the other person's shoes for anything I've not experienced/don't get.
If I don't know, what value do I get in pretending? Avoiding looking stupid? That'll happen regardless once people figure out I know nothing. And sticking to what I do know? As safe as that is, safe won't necessarily get you through life; you can't stay in one place forever, physically, mentally, or life-wise, no matter how much we might wish otherwise.
Furthermore, Tom’s Spider-Man came of age to fix the problems made by people of an older generation. That is a pretty unique Spider-Man - that is literally a feeling more for 40 years old and younger. They would never get Spider-Man’a struggle.
@@iantaakalla8180 Yes, because how could someone older than 40 EVER understand the writing and acting behind the MCU Spiderman...we can barely figure out how to work the internet without a dial-up modem. *EYE ROLL*
So, you're going through what every generation as had to go through, as far as older generations thinking you have/have been given everything, you're lazy and don't value anything, take everything for granted, expect the world on a platter...I'm probably forgetting some, but as a Gen Xer I've heard it all before and forgotten it because while it impeded and devalued anything I tried to achieve, I still tried to achieve/and achieved reagardless.
Before you continue your ageist rant, remember that not everyone older than you is dumber than you, and that you too will one day be old...and looked as a dumb and the cause of all the problems in the world - so enjoy your superior view on things while you can.
I don’t think the reason some people in older generations hate Spider-man is because he is a teenager. You’re talking like adults didn’t go through puberty and teenage years, we know how difficult and awkward those years can be. The reasons I’ve encountered are that they describe him as “iron boy” and not having some of the difficulties of the Spider-Man in the comics. Like Jono said it took him 3 movies to get where Spider-Man really is, broke, alone, without iron man tech, etc. But I agree that his Spider-Man is underrated, imo he is amazing. I totally love him and can’t wait to see what they do with his Spider-Man.
Idk if anyones mentioned it yet but that moment where Andrew stops them with “I love you guys” it wasn’t scripted and that’s why they look so shocked. Just love that moment 🥰
I dont think thats true…
@@Alex_agamer Andrew himself confirmed that.
I personally love Tom as Spider-Man. He truly brings that teenager feeling to the character. I also love that Tom Holland is like Peter Parker in real life. If you watch interviews with him and the rest of the Avengers cast, he has that same sort of goofy, out-of-his-league energy with all these older, more experienced actors. And I personally love that him and RDJ have that same dynamic as they do in the movies. I think Tom is just the best Spider-Man and has the most growth in the series.
That entire scene with Peter being stopped from killing Green Goblin by Peter 2...that just had so much character from both of them. What an amazing coming of age story, this trilogy!
Love when people say that tobey was amazing in that scene (not harping cause the scene was great), but his acting was basically just 😐
I agree, but I also feel it took agency away from Holland's Spidey. Stopping him from killing isn't the same as him deciding not to kill... if you follow me.
@@lizardog to be fair, that was his lowest moment, there's nothing wrong with needing help from friends
@@lizardog Tobey's look was "I know how you feel. I nearly killed him too after he tried to kill Mary Jane, my Aunt May and a tram full of kids but he's insane and can't help himself."
@@lizardog Tobey's Spiderman isn't exactly guilt free from that.
He killed a guy the first movie, and took pleasure in trying to kill Sandman that May had to tell him that Spiderman never kills people.
The scene where he decides not to tell his friends pivots really cleverly on a small moment. When MJ first cut her head and Peter asked if she was okay, she said "It doesn't hurt". When he asks her at the cafe, she says "It doesn't hurt any more". Maybe he's just remembering she was hurt through helping him, or maybe also realises she'd lied to him so he wouldn't stop to look after her. His life hurts those around him, but his friends won't stop that happening because what he does is too important. Like with Aunt May, they'll tell him everything is okay even when it isn't, so the only chance to make sure they're actually okay is to keep them far away from him.
On the one hand I love the maturity he shows by prioritising her safety over his own happiness. But. It does really frustrate me that he betrays MJ's trust by going back on his promise to find her and tell her who he was. Trying to keep her safe is admirable, but she was literally begging him in tears to find her and fix things, and he didn't do it. Wanting to protect her is understandable, but when it comes at the expense of her agency and goes against her wishes, I feel conflicted about it.
Ok but like, i don't know, I think he made the promise in order to make her feel better. Like an empty promise that he will someday fulfill but no where soon. Mostly to keep her safe and out of the disaster zone but does suck that he had to break his promise.
@@robbiesmith8055 If the moment is just him remembering she got hurt then I totally agree that he was taking that choice back from her and it's an ironically selfish decision. If he was realising she'd been hiding her pain from him, it makes a lot more sense and is less selfish as he was making a new decision based on new information that she'd hidden from him. She's still getting no say in the matter, so I agree it's not fair, but it was the better choice and it was not possible to ask her again without making it so there was no way to take it back.
@@Brook_55 Except he really did intend to do it up until that moment. He'd written a speech, gone to the cafe and was all set to introduce himself, and then changed his mind. I agree it sucks, but he made an honest promise, started to follow through on it and then found out new information that made him change his mind.
Yeah true
I love how freaking awkward and cute Tom Holland's spiderman is. And I've also loved seeing him grow. Tom and the writers are doing amazing
Tom Holland's spiderman is one of the most emotionally riveting characters in cinema I've seen in a while. Can't wait to see what else he gets to do
I am so unbelievably excited to see where they take his character in the next 2-3 movies. I really hope the next movie is him and Daredevil taking on Kingpin and Tombstone. His arc could be him discovering that new york is riddled with evil, rotten people but when he's spider-man, he gets to be the best he can be and save all the good people and the people that matter to him. Kingpin and Tombstone are such evil, awful people and them both being crime bosses actively seeking to make NYC worse would be so interesting to see Peter go up against them with Daredevil- and maybe he would even be reluctant to trust him given everything he's gone through before, but he'd learn to trust him after Matt saves him despite Matt being in mortal danger. I think Matt Murdock and Peter's friendship in the comics is one of the sweetest things and so fun to read.
Tom Holland's spiderman is exactly what I had imagined him to be. A teen hero with flaws imperfection. A little silly and very emotional teenager who has gone through more trauma and heartbreak than he deserves. He is not perfect he makes poor choice but that's what sells the story well. He is young he learning he is bound to make mistakes. However, his heart is always in the right place.
I like that Peter chooses not to tell MJ and Ned who he really is at the end. So many innocent people, such as Aunt May, have died because they know that he's Spiderman, so ultimately they're better off not knowing him, sad to say.
And it’s the same decision that the original Peter Parker made at the end of the first Spider-Man movie when he rejected Mary-Jane Watson for her own safety.
At the same time, Peter makes people’s lives better by existing.
Peter’s job unfortunately calls for others around him to shoulder the responsibility that he carries. However, Peter has been responsible for more lives being saved than lost.
There is also an argument to be made that Peter doesn’t really have the right to eliminate Ned and MJ’s opportunity to remember him. But that’s a whole other thing. 😅
@@tariqthomas9090 yeah, they did explicitly want to see him again. But while they do want it and he makes the decision for them, against their wishes, it’s also a lot to ask of him as well. All of them would have to go through a lot to make it work, since Peter has to restart his relationships with them all over again.
I'll like it in the story if later on through shenanigans MJ gets all or part of her memory back and has the line. "I told you what I wanted and you ignored me!". She did say she figured it out on her own and she'd do it again.
@@tariqthomas9090 I ran into that arguement in a Star Trek novel. We are, we are who we are, because of what we've been thru and what we've thought about it. Take away any part of our memories and you've taken away part of our selves.
Do you (rhetorical) wish to be4 less than you?
"You can't be a friendly neighborhood spiderman if there's no neighborhood."
That line still reminds me of something Batman says in the first couple episodes of Justice League: Unlimited. Green Arrow just wants to look out for the little guy and leave the giant monsters to people like Superman, but Batman tells him that the little guys Arrow is trying to protect tend to get squished by giant monsters.
We see Peter cry in every one of his solo movies. We haven't seen that from any other Marvel character. I think it's an incredible look into Peter's growth as a person and a hero. This situations are meaningful to him. He's scared. He's regretful. He's learning. He's grieving. Becoming a hero is hard. Becoming an adult is harder. What a great character for kids to look up to.
I didn't realize how much Andrew was MY Spiderman until he caught MJ and I teared up in the theater. The pain and relief on his face was heartbreaking.
Oh my gawd I made the most embarrassing choking sob noise in the theater because of that moment!! That scene just shattered me.
That scene wrecked me. Andrew (and Zendaya) absolutely nailed that scene. It was so beautiful and heartbreaking at the same time.
My entire theater erupted in cheers when he caught her, and I was bawling 😭😭
@@mark.daniel who tf is Zoe? 😂
But yeah, Spidey 3 catching her to make up for his own failure. Good redemption
@@kantpredict ah! I meant Zendaya, the actress who plays MJ.
I grew up w Toby but LOVED Andrew since he was the closest to how spiderman is in the comics but Tom has that actual teen energy and u really FEEL that merging into his adulthood and watching him grow and mature. Spidermans perseverance and morality of everything is awe-inspiring
Thank u for doing this and can't wait for the spiderverse video!😄😄
Yup! Nailed it
25:22 God, I LOVE the way Andrew Garfield says "Peter Three" when they're counting off which Peter Parker they are. The resignation & the shrugging of his shoulders, as if to say, "Yes, I KNOW I'm Peter Three. I've seen the box office returns." It's the most Peter Parker thing ever.
But honestly, every Peter in that bunch should secretly think that they're the worst Peter.
As a teen myself, Peter Parker has definitely got to be one of the most relatable superheros. Purely because he's a young, naive, teenager who's trying to do good in the world. A world with adults who, unfortunately, might try to put him down or hurt him.
I love that in the closed captions when they both speak, it identifies the speakers as "Internet Dads". These two are amazing and the conversations you have about mental health, healing, and filmmaking just make my whole day.
I was one of those that instantly loved the more teenage Spider-Man in Civil War. It was just so much more fun than the other portrayals for me; like Alan said, he's Spider-Man but he's still just a kid who's had his powers for less than a year. And that felt like a true Spider-Man to me.
A lot of people that were leaving my theater the night I saw it were audibly complaining about the "childish" portrayal of their favorite hero, and I'm not a comics person, but from what I understand, that's quite literally the story. A teenager, a kid, gains powers and then has to learn how to be an adult pretty damn fast. The other two iterations didn't feel like that, at least for me.
Love to Tobey and Andrew for their portrayals and ESPECIALLY their work in No Way Home, but Tom's is the one I love most.
My favorite part of the end scene with MJ is that, even when it's painfully obvious she has no idea who Peter Parker is, he has every intention of pushing through the awkwardness to keep his promise and "explain everything." It's only when he sees MJ is genuinely optimistic about her future for the first time and notices the bandaid over the cut on her forehead that he realizes how much bringing her back into the Spiderverse would cost her. She and Ned sacrificed their future helping him, and now that there's no memory of them as FOS, they're free to go to MIT and do whatever they want.
When MJ tells Peter, *"It doesn't really hurt anymore"* he reads that as *"losing you as my friend/boyfriend doesn't hurt anymore."* So he can finally be at peace that Ned and MJ will be happy living his dream, step back, and thank MJ for everything that she's done. Peter might stop by every few weeks as a casual customer (and might even ask MJ what she and "her friend" want to study at MIT), but he won't get any closer to keep them safe. In order for Spider-Man to live on, Peter Parker must disappear.
The line "We don't treat people with respect because of who they are. We treat people with respect because of who we are." That hit deep
While I understand how he's growing into adulthood by not telling his friends what happened, I think it shows how adulthood can go too far. Independence is important, but so is the ability to know when you need to ask for help. To know that it's okay to need people in your life you can rely on
He will learn it and frankly it's an issue of society. Individualism encouraging hyper independence and self sacrifice.
Ultra-independence is an indictment of society. We have been told to "look out for number 1," and the cost has been that anything done for altruism is just looked down upon as being a "wuss."
@@uncreative5766 Agreed! Selfishness, callousness, cruelty, rudeness, and the like are seen as cool and so is being an edgelord. It's embarrassing. It's either that or destroy yourself trying to make everyone else happy.
Plus that's not good for his Mental Health either given enough trauma and isolation and the results will not be good.
In the episode about tobey's spiderman they say, by keeping everything a secret and distancing himself from MJ he doesn't respect her and takes away her choice, that really resonated with me. So I hated the end of NWH because again, I feel like he disrespects his best friend and love of his life by taking away their ability to make a decision, whether they want to be involved in his life or not. But apparently here they think it's brave and responsible and adult, so kinda confusing tbh.
When Tom Holland's Spider-Man had to forge his own way at the end of "No Way Home" living in a dingy apartment, applying to get his GED, sewing his own suit, and making the sacrifice saving everyone, but everyone forgetting him... that is when his character began for me.
I am excited for what his future in the MCU will be, especially if they stay true to the comics and have him mentored by Matt Murdock.
Agreed, I love how far Tom has come in the MCU, and I can't wait to see his next major projects.
@@trinaq it's been well executed so far. I truly hope that the Spider-Man films continue to mature as his character does. I do not know how the movie could have paved the way for that possibility better.
Totally agree, initially, I wasn't too fond on the MCU Spider-man when he first appeared. But that changed after No way Home, which reminded me why Spider-man is such a great character.
Overall, I felt that Peter's story in the MCU was meant to be a deconstruction of his character, ending with him truly arriving as Spider-Man
Same. I was completely satisfied with Hollands acting, but I just wasn't feeling his Peter Parker/Spider-Man because none of his movies felt like a origin story unlike how it usually is in the first film. When I saw the ending of NWH that's when I knew his story was just getting started and he finally got his origin story.
See that's Spiderman!
I like that Tony doesn’t get angry or pressure Peter when he rejects his initial invitation to join the Avengers. He understands that Peter’s still just a kid and respects that he wants to stay as New York’s friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man for a while.
What an absolutely refreshing take on Spider-Man. Spider-Man has been my favorite superhero all my life and I have heard all sort of people break down great moments but all sort start to sound the same after awhile and this video took such as nice angle on it. Just want to say great work and keep it up. Thank you.
That means a lot. Thank you!
YES. 100 times yes.
peter parker represents morality despite loss. thats my take on it. tom hollands peter did it so phenomenally well
No Way Home had me crying uncontrollably in the theaters. The ending hurts but I love and respect the decision he has to make. I just hate that he loses everyone he loves.
Same. I had tears just dripping off my face. I was such a mess. Usually it isn't hard for me to cry and not make a sound but it was practically impossible.
Same was just straight sobbing almost the whole movie. I cry often at movies but that one just hit the hardest and my mom noticed at some point and tried to offer me a tissue. It genuinely was that bad
@@leiamarker2825 my brother kept glancing over and mouthing "are you okay?" He's so used to it now though it mostly amuses him.
@@brighidmcmullen9577 my brother just makes fun of me saying it wasn’t that sad and I’m sitting like “oh yeah the kid who lost his mother figure isn’t sad at all I’m so stupid for crying”. But overall everyone just leaves me be to sob
@@leiamarker2825 I'm sorry your brother is like that but I'm glad you don't take it to heart and let his opinion dictate your actions/emotions. Considering my much younger brother and I have a marvel movie pact (we always see them together or not at all) and I usually pay for the movie (not always and he has paid for me a few times) he knows better than to judge. Also, growing up with 2 sisters, both older, and no brothers, he's used to my more emotional temperament and I also was kinda a 3rd parent and I raised him to be respectful. Lol
"When you lose people, there's always more people who can be there to help you" 22:42 True. I have from my own life, noticed, that when one friend goes away, there is someone else to help. I am never left alone for long.
Tom Holland can be so funny and lighthearted, but when he has heartbreak, he really breaks your heart. I still cannot get through his performance in Infinity Wars where he says "I don't want to go" it breaks me
Spiderman always gets me man, I grew up with Toby but absolutely loved both Garfield and Holland as spiderman, they both brought different stuff to the character.. But seeing spiderman be alone at the end of the movie absolutely broke my heart, he's still just a kid you know..
Since you're covering Marvel and DC, I'd love it if you ever wanted to talk about the anger and the need for revenge as well as the abandonment issues of the character of Jason Todd AKA the Red Hood in the incredible DC film Batman: Under the Red Hood.
Yes! _Under the Red Hood_ is so good!
Omg yes!
Yes yes yes
I would love that
I'm gonna make my own comment but I also want to see them dig in to the mindset of The Punisher
“We treat people with respect not because of who they are but because of who we are.” So profound and so true!
I always tell people the reason I love Tom Holland as Spidey IS that scene of him trapped under the rubble. Because that one scene more than anything really made me think of him not just as a superhero but as a kid.
One day, my oldest son (6 years old at that time) asked me "What it is to be a grown up?". And I didn't want to get into the dull part, like talking about taxes and boring, impossible to understand things like that for a child so young...
So, I just said "Being a grown up... is making choices and living with the consequences."
To this day, I still know adults (people who aged above 18) that are still not "grown up" if we take that sentence as a reference. I don't know how much this answer will help my son in his life. I just hope I said it right.
But, honestly, being an adult sucks. I'm just happy we get movies like the spideman's to entertain us while teaching us such valuable life's lessons. 💖
You're a good parent
@@PhotonBeast You think so? Thanks! I try my best, but, sometimes, it just feels so overwhelming.
Fun fact: The moment where Tony says "I'm going to sit here so you move the leg" was unscripted. Tom Holland missed his mark, so RDJ just threw that in so he'd scoot over and he could sit.
For me, Tobey, Andrew and Tom represent different aspects of Spider-Man
Tobey: Peter Parker
Andrew: The suit/Spider-Man himself
Tom: The balance between both of his identities.
Of course this is just how I see it🤷♂
All of them did fantastic in their roles and I like them all. Hopefully we get to see more in the future!
Doesn't make sense though.
Since Tobey more than any of them battled with duel identity especially in Spider-Man 2.
Much more so than Andrew and Tom.
Congratulations Cinema Therapy, it’s been a long journey. As a guys that’s been here for a while, I’m so glad to see you hit one million. Excited for the future for you guys.
Thank you!
That’s so sweet that you’ve been there since the beginning!
Andrew admitting him not holding back, and killing his oppents got to me. His emotion, his pain, made me cry
I remember in Justice League(the TV show) they where trying to get Green Arrow to join. And he said, "I'm just a guy with a bow. I don't fight big threats, I just look out for the little guy." And the response was. "Those big threats often step on the little guys." That sums up Spiderman. He's always looking out for, thinking of, the little guy. In his fights he gets hurt and causes lots of accidental damage, but that's because even in them he's trying to find a way to take out his foe without hurting them too much, and stopping things that are going to hurt other people. Spiderman takes his responsibility seriously. That's why we all love him.
Folks forget just how stupidly strong Parker really is. He's always pulling his punches. Always.
I forget what comic it was, but I think it was Octavius ends up body swapped with him and damned near kills someone with a backhanded slap then has an "oh shit" moment when he realizes just how thick Peter's kid gloves are.
@@SinHurr yeah. In several comics, his enemies s**t themselves cause he stops talking, stops making jokes, and it FREAKS them out. Cause that means he's finally getting serious.
Honestly I love how everything that Quinton Beck does around Spiderman is a lesson for him. He teaches him exactly what he needs to succeed in the future of his superhero career whether he intended to or not. This includes the reveal of his identity to the public as it shows how he has to keep his identities as Peter Parker and Spiderman separate from each other because if he doesn't then that means that those who he loves will get hurt. Beck is amazing at teaching superheroes lessons despite being a supervillain even if it's just Peter Parker that he teaches.
One of my favorite things is noticing Tobey helping Holland through the grief, like when he noticed he didn't want to work on the goblin cure or just knowing to say that getting what you want won't make you feel better always.
Dude, we need Spiderverse up in here. Not only because it's set in winter, came out around Christmas, and is getting a well deserved sequel next year, but because it's a damn fine movie.
After seeing the sequel I must say both movies are incredible. The art, the characters, everything is so alive. I love the energy, I love the color, I love the styles, and I love the story. Spider-Man is an amazing character, just amazing in all four of these different performances.
That scene under the rubble, is one of my favourites for Peter. So much weight and great acting. I love it so much
so. much. *weight*
@@SinHurr when I sent the comment I realised the accidental pun xD
@@SinHurr and its from a very iconic comic and comic cover :D
I just finished the Tobey Maguire Spiderman trilogy and watched the first Andrew Garfield Spiderman film and they were so powerful, I had tears in my eyes. I think Tom Holland makes a wonderful Spiderman, so comedic, but also so relatable.
One thing I loved about Pete and him being ‘neighborhood friendly Spider-Man’ was that he had this perspective of helping people, the little guy, that some of the other heroes seem to forget sometimes. Not like they are bad heroes or anything! Just when you are saving the world or a whole nation, it’s hard to imagine everyone. To see the effect their work has on a personal level. Spidey always had that with New York. Like New York City is a character in Spidey’s story. I don’t know how else to say it. Spider-Man was always my favorite hero because he always felt like a person just doing their best. Like the rest of us.
I just moved into college today, and this hit different for me. It was just what I needed. Thank you guys so much for what you do❤️
Our pleasure!
Welcome to college :)
No Way Home is the best Spider-Man movie, second only the Spider-Man 2. Into the Spider-Verse is third on my list. Seeing Tom, Andrew, and Tobey on the same screen still feels like a dream only it came true. Only by losing his support system did he learn the true meaning of responsibility.
Green Goblin was at his most terrifying here. That condo fight had me on the edge of my seat and was scarier than any horror movie I’ve seen in the last several years. No matter what reality he calls home, Goblin will always be Spider-Man’s worst enemy. He gets whisked away to another reality, sees an alternate Peter and decides to ruin his life. Beats the shit out of him and kills the only mother he had.
Objectively speaking yeah, subjectively, NGL NWH is my favorite superhero film of all time.
It's my favorite film in the MCU, it's my favorite Spiderman film.
He's just the best!
One great shot is Tobey's face when the goblin's maniacal laughter is heard in NWH. Brought me back to the early 2000s for their first encounter. Green Goblin ALWAYS instilled horror in me. Most horrifying supervillain especially with the psychological thriller aspects with the wavering sanity.
It still blows my mind that they even got the other 2 legacy actors in No Way Home to do the things was such a cinematic joy and did everything I ever wanted. So good.
Public service meets fanservice done correctly
22:30 I took it as that Peter didn’t find a new mentor with the other peters but he found a new mentor in himself thus why at the end he’s alone because he can do it
I remember that scene in the first MCU spidey movie where Peter is stuck under the rubble and in that moment, Toms acting was so good my heart genuinely broke for Peter - in that moment I saw him as just a young boy
One of the things that really interested my about Tony in Civil War is that, while being at war with Cap, Tony essentially adopts... Cap. Spiderman is another of those kids with that instinctive, innocent morality. (One major difference, of course, is that Peter is naive and sometimes has stunningly poor judgment and planning skills.)
Really love Tom Hollands development over the movies. Looking forward to what they do next, that is if they continue…
Looking forward to the Spider-Man into the multiverse video.
RUclips recommended this channel to me yesterday and I have since been binge watching your videos. It's so fascinating to listen to such in depth discussions about your favourite characters. This channel is so unique. Great work, guys. Thanks a lot. Much love from India ♥️
Welcome aboard! Thanks for watching!
"Come on, Spiderman!"
"When you can do the things I can do, but you don't, and then the bad things happen, they happen because of you."
My favourite lines by Peter.
yes! Tom Holland is my favorite Spiderman and I grew up with the Tobey Maguire Spiderman so I'm so happy they're analyzing this movie...
Oh wow, this video was uploaded with the most perfect timing for me. I'm going to start college next week and I couldn't relate more to Peter's journey (minus the superhero part, unfortunately), so it is such a relief to hear you guys talk about this movie and what the journey from adolescent into adulthood is like. It makes me feel understood and a little bit more confident in facing adulthood, which I have realized to be actually quite scary and nervewrecking. Thank you, and also a great video as always!
You got this! Thanks for watching! :)
College is a great transition point because you're not fully off training wheels on the bike of adulthood/life yet. You'll still have structure (class times), food (dining halls), and a blooming social life (yay everyone experiencing similar life on campus and in school), but the time management/homework responsibility piece is now more on your shoulders, as is the self care/basic needs, and the advocacy if you have a challenging professor or roommate, etc. You'll have an advisor and an RA you can go to for questions, but you'll have to seek them out versus a school counselor in high school seeking you out. Have the best time, stay organized, and do your best!
You took the thoughts regarding Tom Holland out of my head and turned them into words, Alan. The other two were just not kid enough.
15:08 "Some people might not deserve respect, but we treat them with respect not because of who they are but because of who WE are."
THIS IS WHY I WATCH THIS CHANNEL!!!!!!
You guys should cover Tim Burton's Big Fish, I'd love to hear Jonathan's opinion on the relationship between the father and son with the father's stories, and Alan's take on the film itself, it's one of my favorites ☺️
I LOVE that movie, it so fabulous. My friend and I (who both have terrible relationships with our dad) sobbed ourselves stupid in the theater. I would LOVE to see the Internet Dads cover it. plus it's a fun, silly, whimsical movie. Great rec, friend!
Ummm they did it already
We did! Check it out here: ruclips.net/video/O30JHhigHI0/видео.html
Yeah they already covered it but do check it out.
Omg you're right! Sorry! I thought I had seen all their videos, but I guess not 🤦🏽♀️ I'll go watch it! ❤️
"We treat people with respect not because of who they are, but because of who we are."
I like that. I like that insight a lot. I need it on a t-shirt. I need it on a sticker, enamel pins, water bottles, laptop covers, backpacks, bags, everything and anything that I carry around. I will absolutely use this with the population I work with and in my career going forward.
Big ups to the writers and Watts for letting Aunt May say the great power/great responsibility line. It was well earned, perfectly acted, and a hundred percent deserved. Oh, and Marisa Tomei is still a dime.
The scene in homecoming where Tony said I'd hope you'd be better always gets me
I hope that as much as you have heard this from a million other people, you realize just how much you have helped people like me who have been struggling with our own obstacles. So, thank you from the bottom of my heart.
I was so happy they made Mysterio a villian. I knew even in the trailers where they were showing him "saving the day" that this was all a front because I know Mysterio from the shows and games. There was no way they were going to make him a wholesome mentor with no strings attached and I felt so justified when it was revealed to be all a grand illusion.
When Peter is about to remind MJ who he is, and then she says, "It doesn't really hurt anymore"... that line gets me every time. It hits hard with the double meaning that only Peter is aware of. That sudden realization that *he* brings pain to the people he loves, so he has to walk away to keep them safe and happy... ugh, gut wrenching!
Also, I am *so excited* that you're doing Spider-Verse next, as it's my favorite movie of all time! (Most recently tied with Everything, Everywhere, All At Once.)
Watching this is... surprisingly healing. I grew up with parents who wanted me to be independent, yet didn't like it that I had my own opinions, my own interests, and wanted to do things differently. I wanted to go to uni, but not the course they wanted. I wanted to learn to cook, just not their dishes. I'm still being scolded even now in my late 20s, for trying new things. I don't know how to deal with my parents. But its good to hear again that I have the right to just, do things.
There were a lot of expectations for me to succeed in life. But I fell flat in uni. Because I didn't know how to manage my emotions, I wasn't taught to do that. My parents have invalidated me, so I thought I just shouldn't have emotions and have no right to feel negative feelings towards them. I now know that I can release it by finding support groups, renting spaces, talking to my parents about them etc. I'm preparing myself for the longer road ahead.
I'm pretty sure the "I'm gonna sit here now so you gotta move the leg" was unscripted. Tom forgot his stage direction and RDJ was trying to keep it going. That they left it in is just perfect though.
Yes!
Every time I see that scene where they say “with great power comes great responsibility” I get chills
I hope he stays on for more spider man stuff because he's really grown into this role and his acting is by far my favorite in that movie. When I saw it for the first time I could not stop thinking about it for days. No way home gave me so many emotions
Peter to me has the most potential to be a great hero. He is essentially what you get when combine Tony’s intellect, ingenuity, and resourcefulness with Steve Roger’s Morality, Integrity, and Loyalty. All he lacks is the maturity and life experience that comes with age.
oh boy I can already feel the tears
If you've never seen Jim Carrey's "Yes Man," I'd be very interested to see your response to the theme behind it. The book helped me when I was depressed back in the day.
let's not talk about jim carrey :/
@@sarahheri7027 Why not?
@@Papacarrot idk maybe it's childish, i always liked his movies, but since i found out about him kissing alicia silverstone visibly against her will at that award show (back in 97, so i was maybe 6 and had never heard of it) i really don't want to talk about jim carrey anymore 😕 he was very verbal about will smith slapping chris rock, but forced himself onto a minor on stage when he was in his late 20 or early 30... it's kind of hard to wrap my head around this...
@@sarahheri7027 Wow, I had no idea that happened. I just watched a clip of it and most people in the comments mention how she actually wasn't a minor, supposedly she was around 19 years old at the time, but it's still disgusting that he did that. Do you know if he ever talked about it afterwards?
@@Papacarrot ok i'm not sure how the rules are, i thought in the states it's until 21 - but still - 19 years!!! and he just got away w it and people applauded him! she is trying to push him away and everything... don't know, i'm having a hard time with this since i found out a few weeks back 😕 again, i always liked his movies and still think he's a great actor, but this really bothers me...
I always think that the 3 Peters are like 3 brothers going on a trip
Tom - the younger brother that has everything prepared and scheduled
Andrew - the middle brother who is just happy to be there with his brothers
Tobby - the older brother who probably already has been there but is happy to now be back with is brothers. Also he is there to take care of them
I love how every Cinema Therapy video I watch I learn something about myself.
I know its movies that you both look at and analyse. But would really love for you to react to Gravity Falls and to look at the themes and opinions of growing up and fear of the future, between Dipper and Mabel. Would really love for you both to talk about their fears relating to growing up and maybe if what is shown are real examples of diagnosis. Either on this channel or on Mended Light? Would be really awesome!
Tom's Spider Man is my favorite MCU Character. The movie came out shortly after my dad died and although I always liked Tom's Spidey, the last movie hit me pretty hard. I was angry at the world and wanted someone to pay for my father's death, for the pain it caused me. Although, of course, I knew that my father allowed me (wish) to have a nice and good young life.
This film gives me so much and is extremely important and significant to me when I am threatening to arrive from MY path.
I have to agree with Mr. Alan here. Andrew Garfield absolutely was THE sarcastic Spiderman. McGuire was the emotions, Garfield was the sarcasm, and Holland was the look and innocence. If we could somehow combine all three it would make the perfect spiderman
quick shout-out to whoever does the captions bc they're not only accurate and describe things well but they're also really entertaining
Awww, thank you for the shout-out! I'm so happy that they are as enjoyable as they are useful ❤
Next up …psychology of a hero …ROCKY.
(So many great moments in that film. The talk to Marie, the confrontation in the gym, argument with Mickey at Rocky’s place, meat packing interview/cut with Apollo’s team, training montage, the scene in the ring when he can’t speak as he’s getting choked up, the fight, the ending, where’s your hat)
Just make sure you have a box of tissues as you will get emotional talking about it/watching it.
Honestly I love all three live action portrayals of Spider-Man but Tom Holland’s is the one I relate to the most. Spider-Man is my favorite hero and character of all time and I just feel that Holland’s Spider-Man really captures what the character is as well as how I was as a kid. I’m only 22 and I find myself still going through basically everything that Holland’s Spider-Man goes through in less super ways but still going through them. I’m trying to figure out everything, I am still growing up and until recently, I never realized how much the grown ups in my life really saw that I was both naive is several areas but I was also much more wise than most that were my age.
I had no idea how much I needed all three Peters together in one movie.
Andrew and Toby are amazing - I will give them the props they deserve.
My favorite is hands down Tom Holland. He's just.... everything Spiderman. That guy IS Spiderman.
"I have the skillset to help people so what happens if I don't?" Jonathan saying that...
I wish everyone felt that way. I really do.
I cried when they all started swinging together i was like🥹 “they’re gonna make a multiplayer spiderman game”😭😭
9:20 I know they don't typically talk about the comics, but this scene is a homage to one of the most iconic and formative moments for Peter in the comics and it would have added so much to their discussion of it if they had known.
I love Tom Holland's spiderman precisely because he is a teenager who's trying to figure it all out. He's not perfect and he makes mistakes but he has a good heart and just wants to do the right thing. Out of all the superheroes he's the most relatable. Even as an adult I'm still trying to figure it out!