My theory for a future spider-man movie, the loss of Peter from Ned’s memories will eventually turn him into the hob goblin and the hand shake will be done after Peter finds a way to give those memories back
This list is tragically missing Nat and Clint. Yeah, not 'bros' but that is a platonic relationship that I ride hard for. It's so rare that male/female relationships are allowed to be close and powerful while not crowbarring romance into it. Nat and Clint are my #1... okay, Steve and Bucky and Nat and Clint are tied.
Marvel’s approach to normalizing healthy, emotionally open and vulnerable male friendships is something I think it deserves more credit for. In the blockbuster action movie landscape, it’s honestly a rare thing to see a franchise be so consistent about.
You know, just now watching Bucky save Steve’s neck in the alley for the first time since the movie came out, I feel like Bucky’s reaction is actually really honorable. He stopped the fight, and instead of pursuing the guy he let it go and went back to Steve. Clearly, he’s not in it for the fight.
Frankly, between Cap and Bucky, Bucky might actually be the more perfect human being. Cap always has this desire to proof himself. But Bucky, Bucky has no ego at all. Even when he realises that after being all the time the guy in the spotlight he suddenly comes second to Steve, he takes it with a shrug and supports Steve all the way. Which makes what Hydra did to him so much more heart-breaking, because Bucky is such a caring person.
@swanpride That’s why I hope Bucky becomes Cap one day. Sam was a good choice now since Bucky is still damaged and it’s good for storytelling to have a different kind of Captain America socially with different power too, and we get to know Sam more. But it would fit Bucky’s arc and his core character so well if he got the mantle, and usually I don’t even like legacy heroes. I hope they do Death of Captain America storyline with Sam and then Bucky will become Cap. And maybe Sam returns since that happens with comic storylines.
@@swanpride Someone else pointed out that when Steve asked him about getting his deployment orders, Bucky started and took a deep breath. That's a sign of nervousness. He didn't actually *want* to go, he didn't want to leave Steve, but he was conscripted and so had no choice. Bucky seems cocky but a lot of the time he's kind of putting on a brave face because he knows Steve looks up to him and he doesn't want to show how scared he is in front of his friend. He needs to be strong for others.
Ok, so, I didn’t think “he’s undervaluing how much his friendship adds to their life” would hit me as hard as it is. I think I need to meditate on this for a bit.
Even in the first film, Rocket and Groot’s relationship felt like a parental one. The scene where Rocket berates Groot for drinking fountain water gave me the impression of a dad trying to keep his kid from sticking a fork in the electric outlet and getting exasperated.
If I remember correctly, local law enforcement in the movie described Groot as Rocket's "pet". While I don't think that's their exact relationship, I think it could be a similar power dynamic. I recognize my pets are adults and their own individuals, but at the same time we both recognize that they are reliant on me for access to resources and certain freedoms (namely going through doors). There's also a communication barrier that Rocket has learned to interpret through experience whereas people who don't live with Groot are more likely to not understand. On a similar note, Rocket scolds Groot for doing things that are mostly safe but go against human[noid] sensibilities of politeness or hygiene - like drinking from a toilet, puddle or decorative fountain. This power imbalance also has some parallels to how a young adult's relationship can be with their parents and if we assume that Original Groot was similarly raised from a cutting or seed by Rocket that's probably the stage they're at as well. Since Groot has human-like intelligence but has priorities and capabilities that are very much not human their relationship is probably somewhere in the middle.
Scott Lang and Luis are a great pair too. They became friends in prison and stuck together once they got out in order to help each other succeed and eventually to stay out of trouble. Not only are they good friends, but they help to enrich the life of the other as well as guide the other to better life decisions.
I love the call back to Sam being a leader for veteran support groups. Bucky has literally been a solider for decades, and not all of them willingly. Honestly, I don't think anyone else on the roster could have gotten through to him like Sam does in that scene. Certainly not the therapist lady.
I really do agree (I also like how Sam didn't judge when Bucky told him there were a couple of names that needed closure and Sam was really good about it just being like "that's cool just start with one").
And yet he can’t give two shits abt John Walker, also a veteran. If Marvel had been consistent, Sam would have sat down and talk to John Walker and slowly make him understand why the Shield doesn’t fit him or sth, instead of, you know, talking and sympathizing with a fcking terrorist
Honestly, Bucky's therapist is kind of terrible. I get that his situation is incredibly unique, but I feel like she should approach it more like someone who has escaped from a cult instead of someone with an addiction. Should he make amends? Sure. There's people, like Yori, who need closure only Bucky can give him. But unlike someone with an addiction there was never a choice Bucky made that then led him to do harmful things.
@@youtubedj9298 that's not homophobic, bromance is an innocent name for close man friendship, tge only one who turns it into homophobic here is you and that's literally the title of the video, why do you pick on the random comment instead of the video?
I think part of the reason the therapist is as stern as she was with Sam and Bucky, is that they're soldiers. First and foremost that's a massive part of who they are, and so she's talking to them in a way they recognize and can more easily respond to
And she’s a military therapist too, if I remember right. Her job is to make sure Bucky’s safe to be in the public. So I think that’s another reason she’s tough on him.
Yes! I want the real therapist versus movie therapist run down! I work in mental health and this is something I am constantly having to explain to people.
I had honestly forgotten about Good Will Hunting.... I did just rewatch it though. Yes, Jono listed some attributes of good therapy and yes that portrayal of a therapist is great. However, there's a lot of bad therapy portrayed out there. Hell, right now people all over media and the real world are calling all sorts of things "therapy" that isn't even close. So yup, that video was a good start but I think we need more and I'd love to see that. 😊
"If he was wrong about you, then he was wrong about me" makes the tears burst from my eyes every time! It's up there on my list of insta-cry, right after Iroh: "I was never angry with you. I was sad because I was afraid you'd lost your way."
@@emmacameron4401 have they not done that? Because if not, they definitely should. There’s a lot of relationships in the last airbender with character growth written in to be explored and explained between Alan and Jono.
@@DropIt56 i dont think so. but it would be so interesting and cool if they dove into Irohs ideology, explored Kataras grief, Toph disability and "overcoming" it, or the freaking genocide of aangs people and how he deal with it. there is so much to the series, and i love it so much.
oh my gosh missed opportunity! I hope the guys highlight some male/female friendships in a video, I know they're rarer but there are definitely examples of good ones
People keep saying this but, no. A bromance is specifically and literally a platonic friendship between men. There's a pretty damned obvious reason why this doesn't apply to Nat and Clint.
So many good scenes between Steve and Bucky, honestly same with Steve and Sam and Steve and Natasha…cap movies (Russo brothers) are just so well written and he builds such relationships with these people
I ADORE the bromance between Sam and Bucky, because they had to work for it. They not only had to put aside their differences in order to collaborate professionally, but in order to do so, they had to work on themselves as people, i.e. Sam not believing himself enough and Bucky carrying guilt. In the end, they ended up with the start of a beautiful friendship. Not based on how they knew Steve, but because ultimately, they got to know each other. :)
Probably because a "love interest" is shoehorned into almost every movie, so we've learned to just ignore a lot of romances outside of their own genre as something hollywood just does.
Bromances just tend to depend on chemistry rather than relationships; the goal of a bromance is to showcase chemistry between the characters rather than chemistry often taking a backstep when it concerns a love interest, at least in my eyes.
thats probably because love stories are usually forced into the story, and the time between meeting the person and them falling in love is very fast, and therefore unrealistic. plus, a lot of films show toxic relationships and pass them on as romantic
What I love about Steve and Bucky is the genuine warmth between them. While other BroTPs use snark, sass, or witty banter to establish “we are besties,” Steve and Bucky are always very warm, sometimes a little humorous, but I’d say never witty/snarky. And it’s been that way forever. Even back in the 40’s when Bucky is essentially everything Steve wants to be (strong, soldier, and good with ladies), there’s never any feeling of Bucky being better, he never talks down to Steve, the only picking at each other you really ever see is regarding Steve trying to (illegally) enlist and Bucky being the voice of reason. … which I also think plays into Civil War where we really get to see how much of a daredevil Steve really is 😂 and how much he needs Bucky to reign in his kamikaze self. But yeah, I mean Bucky shows up at Steve’s place after his mom dies and is like hey I’m here, you’re not going through this alone, I won’t let you. Hard not to root for people who genuinely care and express their care. ❤ Also, I’ve met Anthony Mackey and Sebastian Stan and I’m 100% convinced all the banter in Falcon & The Winter Soldier is just them improvising 😂
Isn’t it a part of what makes Hydra so creepy, that it’s cyborg and mind control program came between Bucky and Steve but the one thing Hydra’s programming that already had fanatical devotion in its agents wasn’t prepared for was … Steve refusing to do it all day with Bucky?
Hmm... "Don't do something stupid" "How could I? You're taking all the stupid with you!" "Jerk" "Punk" I dunno, I think they're plenty snarky, tbh. But, true, in another way than most of the rest.
@@Sigart That isn't snark. They aren't being critical of eachother or rude. They they are calling to parts of their relationship they know will communicate love, without having to directly state it.
I would LOVE to see a video about the psychology of Bucky/the Winter Soldier. There’s definitely a lot to look at as his story is spread across loads of movies.
Comments have been asking for a Bucky Barnes episode dealing with PTSD and trauma for years now. They usually do a Psychology of a Hero episode when the characters' story is complete and Sebastian Stan's not leaving the MCU for a while. He's got 2-3 films on his contract still; depending on if FATWS was negotiated separately to the existing contract or not.
You guys should also do a reaction to “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe” (2005). Maybe it could be about sibling rivalry and how they mature and stick together? It’s just such a great movie, I’d give anything to see you guys react to it! Jono can analyze the siblings’ relationship and growth, and Alan can talk about the music, special effects, and Liam Neeson’s epic voice. Such a classic movie 👌🏻
To me, Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson's relationship is the best Marvel bromance. Just seeing them work together to create their own law firm and support one another through every challenge thrown at them is incredible to watch. Not to mention the sheer amount of sarcasm between the two of them!😂
Talking about friendships.... I really liked the friendship between Steve and Natasha. Like how it evolved and where it went. It's really nice to see a friendship between a woman and a man that doesn't have a romantic aspect.
it was actually cute to see how Nat cares for Steve. Like, she was trying to get him a date in Winter Soldier. I think it was a nice call back in Endgame when Steve said that they need to get a life and she says "You first"
I wish it was romantic though. I loved the idea of her being the one to help Steve move on rather than him pinning for Peggy the rest of his life. "But strong male and female friendships are so refreshing!" Agreed, but that's what her and Clint's relationship is for.
@@oliviarogers2808 well, they tried to pair Nat with Bruce in Age of Ultron, but the idea kinda got lost after Thor Ragnarok. You think it would be better if they never had a romance, but it would be with Steve instead?
The thing about Peter's choice to not to tell MJ and Ned is honestly pretty complicated, mainly due to one thing: the recent events are still fresh in his mind. Ned and MJ have been in danger multiple times. I mean, MJ would have died, if another Spider-Man hadn't been paying attention. That's the big thing here. He knows them. He knows they'll be there for him in the hardest of times. But he's also painfully aware that being there for him could very well get them killed. And he doesn't think he's worth them sacrificing their lives. This is a young hero who is still reeling from Tony's loss. And we saw how he initially handled that, coupled with what Mysterio did. There's a very real possibility he feels like an imposter. That he doesn't belong beside the Avengers or any other hero. And that's not even mentioning what the reveal of his secret identity did to their lives. And, of course, Aunt May. I get the feeling we're going to get a much more initially isolationist Spider-Man in the upcoming films. In his eyes, everyone who has gotten involved with him being Spider-Man has either died, nearly died, or had their life torn apart due to his presence. EDIT: As for Steve and Bucky, something people often overlook is that Steve is a man out of time. All anyone knows him for in modern day is Captain America. But Bucky knew him when he was just some scrawny kid from Brooklyn. He's the only one who knows who Steve truly is. And adding to that, Steve feels responsible for Bucky becoming The Winter Soldier in the first place. Is their friendship sometimes unhealthy? Yes. But even in those times, Steve is willing to give Bucky benefit of the doubt because the two are brothers in all but blood. He knows Bucky doesn't want to kill people. He knows Bucky is acting against his own will. He wants people to see Bucky Barnes, not The Winter Soldier. Because that's the big thing. Steve knows how it feels to not be seen behind public perception of you. Even Tony only saw Cap, not Steve underneath the costume.
Peter response is pretty realistic. Yes. And you can understand perfectly why he didn't tell them. And yes, we all understand why Peter made that mistake. But is still a mistake. He is a teenager grieving and that kind of people often don't make the best choices. That doesn't make him a bad written character, but humanizes him.
I think Peter was just deciding to take things slowly. Let the friendships come back on their own and then tell them. That was my first thought in the theater. Am I the only one who thinks so?
@@jensenrogers6611 Not exactly but I Thought it might be one thing on his mind. I think the fact that he also knows they get in danger and the recent things are also on his mind. And he saw the two are great friends and happy, I think that is another reason why he would not go in there right now. In the end, I think he should do it, and we have to wait if he will or won't bring them back in his life. I even thought he might want to grow as a hero - so to speak - because he saw what the other two Spidermans where like, what they went through, and maybe sees reason to improve himself to better protect them once he told them. Because that is the one thing that is pretty clear: Garfields Spiderman accepted that another person wanted to be in his life, but she paid the highest possible price for it. I think she was very aware of that risk and took it, but still, he lost her so to speak, and Holland's Spiderman saw that he still suffered due to that loss. (that made the scene where Garfield saved MJ so strong) What I disagree on is that he undervalued their help in things, because I never got the feeling he did that. I just felt there were alot of variables that made him wait a bit. I hope that he will do it, since he gave them his word, but I feel like letting some time flow by to change some things isn't the worst thing to do. He has the responsibility to do it when the time is right, so for me it felt like a mature decision due to the situation.
@@Rakshiir I wouldn't say he undervalued their help, but HIS meaning on their lives. And, to be fair, this is the MCU. A universe full of dangers at every corner where people are at existencial risk every couple of months. This same two kids were erased from existence on IW and got trapped in the Battle of NY on Avengers 1. Even if we take into account Homecoming and Far From Home, Vulture had already made their city dangerous by selling ultra weapons and Mysterio was endangering people anyways. Not to forget Thanos sent his goons to NY previously. What I'm saying is that, in a world like this, nobody is really safe, heroes' acquaintances or not, and by having them in his life, he could not only honor their wishes but protect them better. That's the lesson Toby Spiderman learned from SM2 and, in the end, he is the best adjusted of the three, managing to have a life and being a Hero. I'd say that's the point of the ending. Peter isn't taking this decision purely from love, but for guilt. He seems himself as a hazard to others. I'm confident the next Spiderman film will be about him learning to connect with people once more and not letting his fears of endangering others isolate him.
I always love a Sam Gamgee reference. He is the best friend anyone could have. I hope you'll do another video on Marvel bromances/friendships. I'd love to see Clint and Natasha, Tony and Bruce, Tony and Happy, and maybe Nick Fury and Coulson (also Coulson and Melinda May if possible).
@@hendrikscheepers4144 there’s a difference between Purpose and Job. His Job was to be a gardener at the Baggins house. His purpose was to stick with his friend Frodo on a terrifying, way past either of their abilities or understanding adventure so that by their humility and determination they could accomplish together what not even Gandalf could have handled alone world saving quest. When Sam thought his friend had died, he took the ring to try to accomplish the quest in his stead. When Sam found his friend alive, he was able to give up the ring despite all its temptations. And at the foot of Mount Doom when Frodo couldn’t go another step on his own, Sam carried his friend up the mountain. Sam is a hero. I won’t stand for this slander /light hearted ^_^
I love Strange and Wong because Strange is so arrogant that he needed someone who will hold him accountable, and he has the authority to back it up. Arrogance can truly be a fatal flaw and sometimes the greatest show of love is helping someone realize their flaws so they can grow.
This is a really good point! The first Dr Strange film really drives home that his arrogance consistently alienates him, so his ideal complement is someone who helps him work on that.
The actor that plays Bucky does an AWESOME job with his reaction to Cap's "I'm with you to the end of the line." The combination of shock, horror, admiration, and indecision is really well portrayed.
Absolutely! It's such a phenomenal bit of acting that's so subtle yet so intense, there's so much going on at the same time and not one percent of it feels out of place or forced. Sebastian Stan does an amazing job
You can see that subtle change in his eyes when he switches from WS to Bucky. Sebastian Stan is one of a very few actors who can tell a story without any lines....
@MerelvandenHurk He takes it even further in the beginning of S1 E4 of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It is a flashback of when he was in Wakanda getting deprogrammed, and Ayo of the Dora Milaje tests the effectiveness of that deprogramming on Bucky. If you don't have tears in your eyes by the end of this scene, you may want to get help.....most tortured soul in the MCU, and he just knocks it out of the park. He deserved an Emmy for that scene alone. Florence Kasumba is so great as Ayo as well as she makes it very clear she cares a lot for this poor man.
What I like about Rocket and Groot is that their relationship arc grows from friends to father and son. It really hurt in Infinity War when Groot started to dust away and James Gunn actually translated Groot's words to reveal Groot calling Rocket, Dad.
It's actually 2 different relationships. Original groot and new groot are not the same as confirmed by the director. Rocket basically adopted his dead best friend's son.
20:44 Sounding off in the comments again about something my wife and I call the Spider-Man move. Breaking up a friendship or a relationship with someone because you are “too much” or “ruining their life” is disrespectful to them and their choice and their agency. Thanks for acknowledging this, Cinema Therapy.
I can understand it might seem unhealthy, the relationship between Steve and Bucky at that one point when Bucky was pretty much out for his neck, but I think that's what makes this friendship even more profound and strong, because Steve saw Bucky for who he truly was. No one in this era knew Bucky anymore, except for Steve, and if Steve couldn't even differentiate between the Winter Soldier and the real Bucky, then who could, and without that loyalty and trust, how would Bucky make the recovery and to regain the self he lost from all the experiments and controlling from Hydra? Steve was stubborn in his mission to save his friend, but it's also him trying to keep the one piece of himself that was buried with time and lost and death. That was his best friend who he lost once, and to lose someone a second time would only hammer in the thought that he could never do right by them even given a second chance. It's not really unhealthy(?) if we take the context and think about it thoroughly, and a friendship that actually stands the test of time.
I understand what you are saying but i somewhat disagree. Steve has a tendency, especially after finding out Bucky is alive, to put Bucky above all else and I believe that goes to an unhealthy level. Steve himself says something about it in the beginning of civil war after Rumlow mentions Bucky as a way of distracting Steve. I mean, the clip they use is literally Steve letting Bucky (granted, he is the winter soldier here and doesn't remember Steve) seriously injure him in hopes of getting through to him. While it is a superhero movie and things aren't going to be totally realistic, letting someone injure you (physically, mentally, emotionally) in the name of friendship (or love in general) isn't healthy.
@@diabeticsrule1763 Except, I think its being taken out of context. It was a *fight* Its not like an abusive relationship and Steve is letting Bucky beat on him for the hell of it. He's already saved the world. He's tried everything, that line was the last resort. Short of shooting Bucky in the face, which ... he's not gonna do (especiallly since the Avengers have *won* by this point and it would be against Steve's moral code to kill a defeated opponent) there was no other way. Or to put it another way, Bucky once sacrificed his own life to protect Steve and Steve is... returning the favour. In way. Risking himself to save Bucky. Also that scene with Rumlow. Rumlow's not trying to distract Steve. He's trying to get his attention because he wanted to blow himself up and take Steve with him. Again he knew he was beaten and that was his revenge. Its like taunting your adversary at the last minute so they'll do something stupid.
Right! I think its meant to mirror how Bucky sacrificed himself to protect Steve in The First Avenger. Steve sacrifices himslf to save Bucky in TWS - and Steve belives in Second chancs. A lot of characters in the MCU had one. Why not Bucky?
The "He didn't honor their choices" argument for Spiderman is so interesting to me. Because if I took the time to put myself in Peter's shoes, I think what he did is completely rational and understandable. But from an audience member POV, I see what these young kids went through and I just want them to have each other to lean on again.
First I've heard of this myself and while yeah he didn't honor their choice, he's also a party to that choice and thus gets a say as well; and at the end of the day as the one who has to actually enact those choices, he gets final say. To me this was more a sign of how much he'd matured. Initially neither he nor they understood the danger they would be in by being in his life and they all kinda dove in head first. Now though he understands the potential consequences much better and it makes him pause to weight the danger to their lives against his desire to have friends again...because don't forget, they are no longer his friends at this point. Even if he does tell them what they once meant to one another, they will never be those people again because they will no longer share all those experiences that made them friends in the first place.
@@RoninXDarknight Counterpoint: while Peter has a hard veto as the only one who can enact the decision, Ned and MJ are the people most directly affected by that decision, so they should have more of a say in the matter. It's a major recurring trope in superhero stories generally - "I have to lie to you, gaslight you, and make decisions for you without your input because if you knew my secret identity, you would be at risk". There is an argument in favour of treating someone like you're their abusive spouse, but there's also an argument in favour of treating someone like an adult capable of making their own choices about what risks to take rather than taking their choices away from them. Yes, they didn't know what their lives would be like without knowing Peter Parker, so Peter, at the point of decision, has information they didn't, but he doesn't know what having him as a friend meant to them subjectively - and we can never know how our decisions will actually turn out, so perfect information is, at best, a mirage. The bottom line is that Ned and MJ, knowing the risks of being friends with Spiderman, chose to accept those risks in order to be friends with Peter, and Peter decided to take that decision away from them.
@@RoninXDarknight I would argue he did get to have his say. It was when he was discussing what was about to happen with them forgetting. His say at the time was "I promise to come find you and restore our friendship". You're trying to suggest both "Peter deserves an equal say because it affects him" but also" Peter should get the only say in something that affects Ned and MJ". Those are two completely different sets of rules. Ned and MJ deserved to have a say when he was changing his mind. If he told them "we used to be friends and it put you in danger and I think we shouldn't be friends anymore" and they agreed, THEN it's okay for him to walk away. Likewise if Peter told them upfront "I'm not coming back for you, I want you to go live your lives without me", then it's okay for him to walk away. But objectively they made one decision as a group and then Peter makes a completely different decision after the fact without any input from the other two. By your own argument, they're a party to that choice and thus get a say as well.
I've seen arguments for this online, and I have to say I agree with them: In media, a lot of the time, women's agency has been taken from them by men, a lot of the time 'to do what's best for them'. And they've shown and told the audience multiple times that MJ is slow to trust people, she actively wants Peter in her life, she says she's a better person with him around, and then for him to see that cut on her cheek, something that would heal within a week, probably, and decide to take away what he'd promised her, what she had withheld their first kiss for, what she'd begged him to do in their last moments together, is Hollywood yet again taking the agency from a woman because 'she doesn't know what's best for her'.
@@RoninXDarknight I do agree a lot with this, but to me it seems like Ned and MJ are not only fine with being in Peter's life and being exposed to the dangers associated with that, but they do actually enjoy it. Ned loves being the man in the chair, and he's always super excited when anything interesting happens, whether it be danger or some sort of progress or other good thing. That's also a really good point at the end though: if Peter were to try to become friends with them again, the friendship would not be the same and it would likely be much weaker, since Peter had known Ned for years prior, and a big part of building their friendship more was Ned helping Peter figure out his powers and stuff when he first got them. Right now, Peter already has a great handle on his powers and doesn't need much help from Ned anymore.
I also think Bucky and Steve’s relationship was the strongest because they are able to be vulnerable with each other, they have helped each other when they were at their lowest, and you can just tell they have had this warm friendship with each other for a long time! (Plus “till the end of the line” is probably the most ICONIC bromance line I have ever hear!!!!!) (Their banter is also visible different from some of the other bromances because it’s almost never snarky or arrogant but very playful and soft, like it never comes across sharp, if that makes sense.)
Sam and Bucky's bromance is my favourite and the most emotional to me because they had to put in the work to actually get to that point. . They started as enemies, then were sort of forced to work together but were still one-upping each other each step of the way, then they had to set their differences aside to fight a bigger threat (Thanos), then they were abandoned by the friend who had got them together in the first place. They were understandably kind of adrift at first, dealing with lots of issues, and the fact that deep down they still cared for each other and were able to see past those issues and finally become true friends and allies, that's real growth to me. Also, let's give more credit to Sam, he was almost killed at least twice by the WS and he still was able to put that aside and help Steve look for Bucky, then work with him, and finally accept him as part of his life. If he was kinda snippy with him at first... who can blame him? i used to love Steve and Bucky's friendship, but not gonna lie, the way Steve just up and left Bucky to go live in the past broke my heart and made me see Steve in a different light. I would no longer rate their bromance on the top spot because of wehat Steve did, no matter the reasons he may have had.
yeah, steve's ending was super out of character. marvel didn't care about staying true to his writing, they just wanted to give the mindless masses in the audience the perfect cliche, white cis male ending.
@@MonAhgasInsomniAroELF I mean, wasn't expecting marvel to make Steve and Bucky an actual romantic pair, if that's what you mean, I'm a sucker for non-toxic male friendships and bromance so I wouldn't have liked that either, what I meant is that there was no real growth for Steve, he was never able to let go of the past, to the point that he chose to go back to it and leave the people who sacrificed so much for him behind. And as much as I know he had a right to think about himself first, the way he did it didn't sit well with me, even if I get that the writers needed a good reason to get Chris Evans out of the movies since he wasn't going to continue with the character.
@@magickelfgirl oh no, i never expect a canon queer pairing between main characters tbh, especially coming from marvel. so while imo that would have been the _best_ outcome, with sam wilson filling the best friend role (since nat is gone 😭), i wasn't at all expecting anything like that to happen. but i did expect characters to stay true to the way they've been characterized for years, and for steve to get a healthy ending that he deserved. so ship aside, yeah i totally agree in that sense. i think there was definitely ways they could have had steve pass the mantle without the character regression we got instead. steve simply could have passed the shield to sam and taken off on a soul-searching journey, riding off into the sunset with his sketch pad on his motorcycle to find a new life goal. that would have been such a hopeful, positive ending with a good message, maybe even could have gotten a cameo from him in future movies, peeking in on his new life as an artist or a teacher or an architect or a counselor or *_something._* and quite honestly, i even would have rathered he died in the last battle than the ending he got. 😑 the reason i mentioned it being a cliche cis white male ending, is because getting the girl and moving into a house with a white picket fence and raising 2.5 kids and living happily ever after is the "dream"/expectation for white american men, and the pushing of that narrative not only hurts the chances to have queer characters (steve is bi btw, ships aside, idc what anyone says and canon can suck it), it also hurts our chances of having more non-toxic, loving platonic relationships between men, and between men and women in media. basically, the curse of heteronormativity hurts all of is, even the straights, and it's why we didn't get a better ending for steve. 😔
I would argue Tony and Rhodey have a better friendship, because when Rhodey comes back a completely different person, Tony accepts him for who he is. Truly a beautiful friendship.
They also forgot Tony's friendship with Happy. Especially in End Game, Happy remembering how much Tony loved cheeseburger is definitely a punch in the gut
“If he wrong about you, he was wrong about me” and “Then finish it. Because im with you til the end of the line” are, in my opinion, some of the strongest lines in the MCU. Also this video reminded me of how good the writing and overall quality of the MCU movies used to have.
Both those moments are really carried by Sebastian Stan's performance. The helicarrier fight is one of the best in the MCU, and Winter Soldier is one of the best films overall due to the emotional drama taking precedence over the spectacle. I mean, there's all this CGI destruction going on around them, but all the viewer cares about is if Bucky will remember Steve. It's a forgone conclusion that Steve will save the day; all tho, the film does an excellent job of pushing the tension to the last possible moment, making it very rewatchable. The core of the film is, 'Can Bucky be saved?' Sam and Bucky feel like bickering brothers who don't get along. Sam's jabs are actually really mean at times. Especially since as a VA counselor, he better than most, should know that Bucky's staring 'freaking cyborg brain' issues are all symptoms of his severe PTSD. But, in Sam's defense, he's really annoyed and angry with Bucky (and Steve) at the beginning of the show.
@@melissaharris3389 I don't think Sam being angry is an excuse for literally mocking someone's disability and trauma. Sorry no matter how angry you are it is never acceptable to mock or taunt someone on the basis of immutable characteristics. Its like if Bucky used a r*cist slur against Sam. That would never be acceptable, but it goes both ways. Also, just to add its possible the starting thing isn't related to Bucky's PTSD but to brain damage which some canon sources say he had. It might even be a form of disassociation. EIther way its wrong to mock it and giving the impression such things are OK is one of the worst aspects of the show.
Gosh I hope Jono is ok after the sneezing. Of course, we'll respect your family's privacy but I can't imagine how hard that must be and just know that we all love you and support you. You can get through this.
@@annielovesu1 for anyone curious, here's the video. 4 minutes long. John Green is a gem and must be protected at all costs. ruclips.net/video/g6ipMj8HDDM/видео.html
I'd be really interested in seeing a breakdown on Bucky's therapist as well as his therapy in general because to me, she always seemed a little too harsh on him, telling him to stop fighting, telling him to apologize, etc. But what he actually ends up landing on is, in the very end, finally saying , "I had no choice" he finally admits outloud that he was a victim. I don't think he said that for the whole series until the very end, he was so focused on all the wrong he did when what he really needed to do was admit that he'd been hurt.
That's what annoyed me with the series. It really played up the idea that Bucky was a willing participant or simply *bad*, and never really acknowledged how much of a victim he was. Everyone, including Sam spent most of the series acting as though The Winter Soldier was just Bucky's evil alter-ego waiting beneath the surface to re-emerge when that was never the case. I personally don't think he should have been made to apologize but rather simply encouraged to confess to victims families, because apologizing is acting like it was his fault and his choice. HYDRA were the victimizers, not him.
I'm hoping they include Matt and Foggy because they technically are part of the MCU now. Their friendship is so great, they even have 1 whole episode just to show how deep their connection and finally at the end of season 3 they accepting one of the other.
I would love one on female friendships! and maybe have sophie as a guest for it to have a female perspective. I always find that female friendships in film can be so complex bc of male writers not understanding how to even write a female character and many other factors. Even looking at the MCU, its only just recently that marvel have started to explore true female friendships/sisterhoods (whether they're great or not is subjective).
The problem is that outside of Gamora and Nebula, I can’t think of another two women who are bromancing. Captain Marvel and her African American friend (who’s name I obviously can’t remember)? Jane Foster and Kat Denning’s character? Jane Foster and Valkyrie?
@@shinankoku2 Yh I had a similar thought too that's why I think its better to explore the idea of female friendships more broadly in film than just the mcu. Its apparent that Marvel has not valued female dynamics (especially friendships) as much as they do for male friendships/bromances. And I think the reason for that can be attributed to how they write or position their female characters (more so in earlier MCU projects than the later ones) in their movies. Natasha didn't get a movie until AFTER her character died, we already know people's thoughts on captain marvel and any other female character that is given any sort of proper attention in the mcu has only just happened on a larger scale in phase 4.
@@shinankoku2 Yeah. The best developed Marvel relationships between women are semi-sister relationships, and I don't know if that counts as the same category. Gamora and Nebula, and the Black Widow sisters are the best told female friendships and they still don't hold up to the male friendships in this episode.
Marvel is still a male dominated audience. The problem with female friendships in my opinion is, if the said females aren’t fighting each other then they turn them into potential lovers. This appeals to the male audience. I’d love to see female friendships too, as a female marvel fan. I’ve also noticed if the female character isn’t scantily clad then she also “must not like men”..🙄🙄eye roll city!!
I think it could be argued that without the friendship from Steve, Bucky would never have overcome the brainwashing he endured. He would've just been another bad guy defeated. Steve acknowledging the fact that the Winter Soldier and Bucky were actually two different people was the ultimate act of friendship. He had seen the spark of recognition in Bucky's eyes and knew that his friend was still in there somewhere. He then risked his own life for Bucky to overcome what had been done to him. I think your ranking was perfect. Great video, as usual, guys!!!
I would like them to just do ones on best friends in general, including some of these bromances and including pairs like Clint and Nat, Shang-chi and Katy, T'challa and Okoye, etc.
The soul-gazing thing is used as an acting excercise quite bit...just look into each others eyes for 3 minutes without saying anything and try not to manufacture a reaction but let it happen. It's astounding what it does for connecting actually. It really does work if both parties involved are willing.
Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson are great examples of a bromance. Like Cap and Bucky, they went through the shitter together. Season 2 of Daredevil (and Matt's alleged death in Defenders) tore them up so bad it really hurt to see. It was really heart warming to see them back together before Daredevil was cancelled and taken off of Netflix.
True, and even till this day, that scene where Foggy found out about Matt's identity was actually one of the most gut wrenching "secret identity gets find out" moments I've seen in superhero movies/series. The actors' performance also brought the best out of that scene. Others would usually portray identity reveals as mostly a shocking and/or funny moment, but nah, the Netflix series (imperfect as some of them may be), brought out the darker, more solemn, and more melancholic tones of the MCU and this scene, and the entire DD series, did a great example demonstrating those said tones. Sadly enough, the marvel disney plus series would likely never live up to series like Daredevil and the Punisher. It really was a shitty move to cancel them.
@@kai_winchester_66 yh their progression from kinda competing of being "steve's number 1" to being really supportive friends is very well done. And the banter and bickering they do just feels so natural and it makes me smile every time
Tony and Rhodey’s bromance will always be number 1 for me. I think it has to do with that quiet support they have for each other that makes my heart ache. Through all of Tony’s shenanigans Rhodey really demonstrates a love and fondness for him.
@@marcuslobo5765 Tony really does that with all his close relationships for the first couple movies. He takes them for granted, stretches their patience and comes around with unreasonable expectations. Part of that is that he doesn't really respect people's time and property including his own. Trying not to do that is part of his character growth and he's still working on it throughout his entire presence in the franchise. He gets better at it with Rhodey and Pepper, less so with Happy.
I would love to see a video talking about movie therapists! I’d also love to see separate videos on Bucky and his PTSD, as well as Sam (who is also clearly dealing with PTSD, and impostor syndrome, and the complexities of being a Black man who now carries the mantle of Captain America). ALSO (sorry, I have so many ideas 😅) a video exploring MCU sibling relationships would be fascinating. I especially love Shuri and T’Challa’s dynamic, and that would be so cool if you could look at them as well as Nat and Yelena, Thor and Loki, Gamora and Nebula ☺️
I wish you would have included Natasha and Clint. Here me out, no Natasha isn't a man, BUT their relationship has EVERY hallmark of a bromance outlined in this video and the MCU. And it would have been cool to see you go through their bromance.
Since you mentioned other bromances, I’d love to see an episode on Road to El Dorado with Miguel and Tulio, or one that ranks bromances with them alongside other animated films like the Ice Age trio, Emperor Kuzco and Pascha, Mike and Sully, Woody and Buzz, Lightning and Mater, Timon and Pumba, Mr Incredible and Frozone, etc
This made me realize the lack of female friendships in the MCU. I can only name like two?...carol and maria, and maybe okoye and nat? We had our sister relationships like Nebula and Gamora, and Natasha and Yelena but sadly those didn't last. It's a shame that Nat and Wanda never had any scenes together where it was just them, considering they were the only female avengers. I really hope we get more female friendships in the future. I like the recent additions Shuri and RiRi, and maybe the Marvels will form a little bestie/sisterhood trio. I hope we also get Kate and Yelena - these two have CRAZY CHEMISTRY. I mean cmon, they're basically the new Black Widow/Hawkeye duo - it just makes sense for them to be besties like their predecessors. Maybe with the new roster of heroes being more m/f balanced we'll get more.
I think one of the main reasons we didn't see much friendship between women is, as your last line implied, there just weren't many other women on the team to talk to. On the other hand, I think it would feel artificial if they made two female characters friendly just because they both happen to be women. Wanda and Nat had scenes together and even lived in the same compound for a while, but outside of work they just never clicked. They had great relationships with other people. And throwing in a scene with all the women just for the sake of inclusion would only come off as delivering fanservice. It works great in a big action scene (see the girl power scene in End Game), but not in establishing characters as genuine people. Carol and Maria works pretty well because they have history. (The execution is a little bland.) Shuri has nuanced relationships with multiple women some of whom are family. Natasha is equally capable of deep, rich friendships. But most of her close friends happen to be men because her job takes up most of her time and she works in a male dominated industry.
Yess, I agree with all of this. I think Shuri and Nakia could work but absolutely Shuri and Riri worked together great and Kate and Yelena were an absolute joy to watch. I hope we get a lot more of them!
@@sross9501 so true, I hope marvel realizes their greatest assett is these actors and the character interactions. That's what made these films so beloved in the first place. Don't take for granted the acting treasures you have in these franchises.
1000% I would love to see not just Jono breaking down movie therapists but Alan breaking down meta-cinema or just films about making films or about filmmakers- that kinda vibe :DDD
I wish y'all added Nat and Clint to the list. They have a great bond like siblings which is very rare to see a platonic friendship. Also, I would love to see y'all cover Wakanda Forever and make a list of parent/child relationships in the MCU.
I highly agree with Jonathan's opinion about how therapist are being portrayed on movies being so stiff and sometimes even seems rude or doesn't give too much interest about their clients. Please do a video discussing this more! I would really like to hear more about this!
Very true. I do believe certain therapist get portrayed based on where they work. So with Bucky, he is dealing with a military therapist, and my theory a therapist who is trying to get him back to work, thus the Thunderbolts.
I love Susan Sarandons portrayal of the therapist in Rick and Morty! I’d totally watch an episode on the differences with real life, and with tips on how to find a good one would be great! I’ve tried therapy a few times, had two really amazing ones before I moved, and after a lot of disinterested cold ones that give zero prompting or guidance. It’s stressful of thinking of starting a new one when you could be wasting your time and money in the end of you don’t click with them.
I have the same feelings and views on Peter not telling them, BUT I will also say that Peter not bringing his friends back into the fold of his life is still a good decision. While he adds value to their life and vice versa, it's ultimately a decision of whether or not he can withstand the burden of being a friend that constantly puts his loved ones in danger. I think it's heart breaking all around no matter what he does.
And here's a little perspective to consider: I'm severely mentally ill. For most of my life, my mental illnesses have made me callous and mean and manipulative and toxic. For years I refused to recognize that I was the problem, but when I did, I suddenly found myself NOT WANTING to have friends, NOT WANTING to see people, not even really wanting to be around my own family, because I had come to recognize how much hurt and harm I had caused the people around me. It's hard to want to have friends when every friendship you've ever had, crashed and burned because of you. It's painfully lonely but I'm more afraid of hurting the people I love and care about than I am of being forever alone and isolated.
I had a brother who was schizophrenic, and also mentally retarded. It was really difficult to cope with his episodes, but he was still my brother. The baseline for life isn’t the veneer of happy niceness. It’s pain and suffering. He died six years ago, and I still miss him. I miss the quirky way he walked, and the genuine affection he had for people. It was still a rocky relationship. I guess my point is don’t make your family’s decisions for them. They’re adults too, and should have at least some say in deciding if they want to go through the pain of being in a relationship with you, or the pain without.
I love the 'sisterhood of travelling pantses' :) between Carol and Maria. The way Carol always had her back and when Carol was fighting to find her identity, Maria reminded her who she really is. I think this one of the most treasured moments, cause that's what a true friend does, they help us see ourselves for who we really are and remind us of our true identity. Would love if you'll guys do a video of 'The Marvels' at the end of the year.
Bucky is my favorite character in the MCU! THANKS FOR HAVING HIM HERE. I would love to see more MCU relationships that you guys analyze. If you're looking for other examples of intense friendships in the MCU, the Daredevil series might be next. The dynamics of the friendship between the three main characters - Matt, Foggy, and Karen are really something to behold.
I feel that Steve is staying with Bucky even when he became toxic is akin to helping a friend going through a hard substance abuse problem. He's not leaving him alone with that weight.
I disagree that Steve is an enabler in that metaphor. If anything, Bucky was kidnapped, drugged against his will, forced to do things he never consented to and then further drugged to keep him from resisting. Steve if anything is someone that got his captors away from him, stuck by Bucky through detoxing and has done everything he can to help Bucky find people that have the skills and experience to not just continue being clean, but also provide him with the guidance to mentally recover from his trauma. Or to quote the previous episode "this is my family. It is small and broken, but still good."
I would love to see you talk about early Science Bros. Obviously during/after Ragnarok Bruce Banner's character got majorly side-lined for the sake of cheap comic relief, but in the early Avengers movies he was incredibly complex, and his relationship with Tony has so much material to break down. Tony was the only person on the helicarrier who wasn't afraid of Bruce. There's a really sweet moment (props to Mark Ruffalo) where Tony intentionally tries to get a rise out of Bruce by prodding him with something sharp, and even when Cap is addressing Tony, Bruce is smiling to himself. With zero dialogue, you can see how genuinely comfortable Bruce is around Tony, and he's so happy to be treated like any other person on board. Small moments like that, all the way up to the big moments, like when Tony was the only person who knew Bruce was going to show up for the Battle of Manhattan, make for such an incredible dynamic.
The bit about Peter undervaluing his worth in their friendship is so true in my case. I always thought of my friends as greater people than me and I always found the good in them even when they couldn't. I just didn't realize that they viewed me the same way, until one day we were all talking and we brought up what we liked each other. I had so much to say for everyone else but when it came to me, they were all saying these great qualities about me that I didn't even know. I was uncomfortable but thanked them to be polite, which would have got the conversation moving if it were anybody else. No, these precious friends of mine immediately could tell that I didn't believe them and each gave me an example of something I did which supported each of their points. This went on until they knew I started to believe. I am not one to cry in front of others, I always hid and cried but that day I teared up because I finally felt seen and valued. Those friends I made sure to never let them go because I knew 100% that each of them has my back. It's been many years since that day, and we have all managed to stay strong together. I'm so glad that God managed to cross our paths so that we could meet and become best friends.
oh my god didnt think a random commentors story on youtube would be making me cry today 😭you are so, so blessed to have found people like those, your comment reminds me of my own friends, who I love just as much. Ugh, good friends are just so precious 🥺🥺
You know what I love about you guys and this channel, it’s one of the few places on the internet right now that is positive and real. It’s like a light in the dark! Me and my partner love watching you guys. Thank you ❤
@@CinemaTherapyShow I would actually be quite interested in your thought process behind how this therapist in Falcon and the Winter Solider was written and portrayed. I perceived it as an intentional decision to write her as stern or abrasive because they wanted to write Sam as a supporting role for Bucky's inside life, but at the same time, I feel as if they DEFINITELY could have written her to be more...OPEN. More caring, not in a romantic way, but in a way that says, "I DO genuinely want to be able to help you," instead of "you're being difficult and closed off, and I'm not being paid enough to be kind." EDIT: and as a word of encouragement, I have found your videos to be quite thoughtful and considerate while holding heart, and not being judgemental. Keep up the good work, guys!
@@CinemaTherapyShow AND Maybe you could even do a breakdown of The Winter soldier's character, too, I'm definitely seen a lot of people in the comment asking for that.
@@a9h4n6 TBH, patient/therapist relationships have boundaries. Even if the therapist is a fun, upbeat person, Bucky still had a lot to gain from Falcon that therapy sessions just can’t substitute for.
Sam and Bucky's friendship reminds me of me and my best friend. When we were very young we had the same best friend and we did not like each other, after a few years that mutual friend moved states away. So we kind of fell into friendship and it's been strong for 20ish years 💜
One thing y'all are forgetting to take into account regarding Peter not telling Ned and MJ at the end of NWH, is the fact that Peter is just a kid! He is on the Avengers, lost Tony, lost Aunt May, watched his best friend and girlfriend's lives turned upside down and almost die on multiple occasions, likely has PTSD, and had to make a decision that any adult would struggle with and force everyone he knows and cares about to forget him in order to save their lives. He is 18 years old while dealing with all of this. An 18 year old that knows he is going to continue putting his life at risk is guaranteed to struggle with the decision of, do I tell them or don't I, when multiple adults go back and forth on it after having months+ to think about and debate it. Plus there is the problem of, how do you convince 2 "strangers" that you are actually best friends, and the reason they don't know this is because a wizard did a spell to force them to forget about you in order to save the world? So let's go back to being how I remember us even though there is no way for you to do that because there is no way for you to get those memories back. Personally, I think his only choice was to let them go to college and live their lives, and hope that someday in the future they run into each other again and start a new friendship that is not dependent on Peter's memories, but memories that they create in this new reality. Only after building that friendship should he tell them, because then they are more likely to believe him.
Yes, I would be interested in a video about the therapist from Falcon&Winter Soldier and maybe of Sam, cause he is also kind of a thearapist. Maybe you could rank other MCU relationships in future videos. Maybe with focus on blood relationsship or "master and apprentice" or actual love couples. I know a lot of people read many MCU Bromances as actual love couples. I like that you ranked them in terms of healthyness and loyality.
I think a part of Peter's choice to not tell Ned and MJ was that he was scared there was no room for him in their lives anymore. They both got accepted to MIT, they have a future and plans that have nothing to do with him and he's just a nobody who happens to be Spider Man. They memories with him entirely edited out. All the emotional bonding was erased. I think he might tell himself that he did it for their sakes, but deep down, after all the loss he has suffered, he's afraid to be rejected and turned away by the few people he cares about that are left.
I think the reason the therapist in F&WS is because she's a former Shield agent/veteran or something like that. Also she's assumedly been dealing with both of them maybe since they started working with shield. But that last part is mostly a theory
I want an analysis of the relationship between Steve and Tony, because Tony's anger and distrust towards Steve - while arguably unfair - is so completely real and understandable.
@@ratking1608 The MCU story line started going downhill when they decided to not have Tony or JARVIS help Cap in CA:TWS, before CA:CW he's ok as a character, not my favorite but I didn't hate him. After CW I can't stand MCU!Steve. The more I think about CA:CW, the more I Hate it.
A bromance video is not something I thought I didn’t need but I LOVE it. Can you please do a Guardians of the Galaxy video about found family and analyze their group dynamic? 🙏🙏🙏
Bucky and Steve are one of my favourite on screen bromances. Steve was alone with no one else who'd lived through WWII, been frozen, and was trying to make sense of the modern world until Bucky came along but Steve has to deal with his guilt for feeling like he abandoned his best friend. They have shared experiences no one else could understand.
@@CaptainPikeachu It seemed to me like Bucky was happy for him and supported him in his choice. Throughout the films his thoughts keep going back to Peggy and the dance he never had with her. It felt like Steve was both passing on the shield and Bucky to Sam and trusting in Bucky to look out for Sam. That was the end of the line for Steve.
Number one is Tony and Rhodey. It is the healthiest relationship of all those presented here. Rhodey in particular is an amazing best friend. He's not afraid to tell Tony when he's wrong, he's firm when he needs to be, but he's always there with Tony to help him when needed. Rhodey is no stranger to Tony's failures, but neither is he to his successes or his good intentions. When Rhodey messes up, Tony is there for him. They support each other, comfort each other and are there for each other. For me, it is the best example of a healthy adult relationship. They have what Steve and Bucky lacks. The loyalty between them is unquestionable. But they are not able to help themselves, nor are they aware of the mistakes the other. Steve only saw Bucky and not his winter soldier persona, or everything he had done over the years. He was unable to help Bucky deal with the consequences and get over the trauma. In fact, Steve left it alone to handle it. Bucky also couldn't help Steve see his inner worth and look for other alternatives to military service at the start of Captain America. I don't doubt their mutual devotion, but I don't think their relationship is the healthiest in the MCU.
One I would love to see you guys talk about, especially since you have already talked on him a bit before, is the Loki show, specifically, the relationship between Loki and Mobius. I find it absolutely fascinating and where they end up at the end of the season I think was really beautiful.
Awesome video! Wish there were female friendships like these in the MCU. The only female-female relationships I can think of off the top of my head are Natasha/Yelena and Gamora/Nebula and those are familial relationships, so I don’t really count them. Kind of a sad realization. 😢 I will say I do enjoy the friendships between Natasha/Clint and Natasha/Steve, since they’re platonic friendships between men/woman which is nice to see! Also something we should see more of! 😊
I wish there was a deep, developed friendship between Natasha and Pepper, they were both in so many movies together, it was an untapped resource! And maybe Gamora and Mantis too 🤔
Jono: Now, I know there are fans who are saying the subtext is there, and the fanfic is definitely there. Alan: Of course it is. (Sophie made us do ALL the research).
I just watched every single video of yours over the last few weeks and I want to thank you. I’m a film-trained writer myself who was raised by therapists and helped them run a clinic in San Francisco for a while, so this channel really combines all the things I love. Currently, I’m living in Spain and caring for my grandmother who has Alzheimer’s and dementia. Even without the immigration aspect, this would be the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Have you considered doing a video on The Father? Hollywood’s made so many depictions of Alzheimer’s and dementia (Coco, This is Us, The Notebook) that are well-meaning but frankly, complete bull. But The Father, even though it was advertised as a horror film, is the most accurate, most empathetic depiction I’ve ever seen and I’d love to get your take on both the perspective of the person with Alzheimer’s and of the caretaker. Thanks again! Hope you’re all doing well 💚
I wish you had also kept the original "I"m with you til the end of the line" scene because that really explains why Bucky and Steve love one another, with Steve having lost his mother and thinking he had to be alone, wanting to have a stiff upper lip, and Bucky coming in with that pure and genuine emotional support. Even though they did have their toxic time in the middle, the way they show up for each other both emotionally and physically is unparalleled. So I think they are #1. Others I would've added: Nat and Clint (I wish it didn't have to be just dudes!), Nat and Steve, Banner and Stark, Banner and Thor (come on by Endgame they were SO SWEET and grew so much).
I really don't see what's toxic about it. Its literally just the movie trope of being prepared to sacrifice all of yourself for your loved one, die for them if needs be.
5:51 I'd quite like an episode on Jonno doing his favourite therapists in media. I want to open it up to media in general so he doesn't feel confined. It would help a lot of people in knowing good traits to seek. Also my old therapist mentioned you in his blog post recently.
I remember he's only said that he liked the therapist from Good Will Hunting. I'd say the therapist on the show "This is Us" is good too. I'm a mental health professional and it's SO hard to find good representations of my job in the media. They either do the basically "illegal" trope of "advice giving"(which good therapists are trained to NOT do), or they're like cold, arrogant, condescending know-it-alls. Have only seen a few decent ones in media.
They've done an episode on the movie "What About Bob" where they look at Bob's new therapist, Dr. Leo Marvin (ruclips.net/video/tXBB9ADIyTo/видео.html) and in Psychology of a Hero: MOON KNIGHT and Dissociative Identity Disorder, They talk about the "fake therapist" (Harrow, the psychiatrist) in Marc's internal mental asylum (at ruclips.net/video/Yr6tO2j5v9g/видео.html)
@Brian Bortner I loved both pf those episodes. I think it would be nice to go a little further into traits Jonno thinks are essential for good therapy. I mean he has on his other channel but it hasn't got a great following. So often in comments on this channel people talk about trauma directly related to how their therapist handled their support. It would just be nice to hear Jonno talk about inspiring therapy instead.
Have we ranked sibling relationships? I love seeing great healthy sibling relationships in movies and tv, because so many sibling relationships on screen are antagonistic. So many of my favourite movies are about siblings - In Her Shoes, and Raising Helen, for example.
I still think Peter did the right thing not telling them. After MJ only avoided death because another superhero was in the area, he learned that another universe’s Peter lost his girlfriend by being the hero, and especially because Aunt May died because of his choices, he realized that their safety was worth more than his promise to find them. Sure, it sucks that they lose one of the people they’re closest to without even realizing it, but they’re young; they have a whole lifetime of fulfilling friendships ahead of them. And Peter knew if they reforged the relationship with him, that life that they should have would be in danger at every single moment. Also what are the odds they believe him?
Please do an episode about Rick and Evie from The Mummy! They have the healthiest marriage I have ever seen in a film and I would love to hear you talk about them!
I always read the Peter Parker/Ned/MJ thing as him waiting for them to get to know him in time rather than just giving them up and not trying to be friends again.
Love this! on the topic of Bromances, but the other way round, I have been dying to see an episode on the Banshees of Inisherin! So much to unpack there for you guys!
To me Peter’s goodbye to Ned hits harder than his goodbye to MJ just because a friendship like that is so hard to come by they’ve clearly been friends for so long where Peter and MJ haven’t really
I'd absolutely love a video on just bucky and his ptsd, there's so many scenes of his I'd love to you guys react to of him and also analyzing bucky's therapy scene and his therapist.
Holy sh*t! I can't believe Jono hasn't already done a break down of the couple's therapy scene from Falcon and Winter Soldier. Not just that, but Bucky's entire therapy arc. Please do!
Steve and Bucky’s friendship is similar to having a friend with addiction or ptsd and staying by their side through it. Not the healthiest at times but the amount of loyalty and forgiveness is healing in THIS story.
Saying its toxic is a misunderstanding. Bucky and Steve are brothers. They would die and give everything for each other. What's wrong with that? Other characters in the MCU are like that and nobody calls them toxic.
I've been following this channel for over a year now and I'd like to thank you for so much that you have taught us as audience. As a Spanish native speaker I'd love to show your videos to my family, but they don't know English. I've been able to show them some videos that have cations in Spanish, it would be absolutely enriching to have more videos with a wider language variety. Love you so much, guys, keep doing an amazing job and for not having the "curse of knowledge".
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
Peter and Ned have such a sweet friendship NWH broke me when they did the handshake one last time
I have a feeling it won't be the last time, I hope I'm right about that
@@bellaknightR597 Definitely hope that you’re right
Honestly that's why I'm never going to finish no way home lol
My theory for a future spider-man movie, the loss of Peter from Ned’s memories will eventually turn him into the hob goblin and the hand shake will be done after Peter finds a way to give those memories back
@@mr2oxking that sounds insanely awesome
This list is tragically missing Nat and Clint. Yeah, not 'bros' but that is a platonic relationship that I ride hard for. It's so rare that male/female relationships are allowed to be close and powerful while not crowbarring romance into it. Nat and Clint are my #1... okay, Steve and Bucky and Nat and Clint are tied.
I completely agree, I expected them to be on the list
Absolutely. I loved their friendship
maybe they should do a separate ranking video for friendships between boys and girls !!! That would be so fun to watch
I'd add Steve and Nat to that list. Amazing trust and understanding between them. Best part of Winter Soldier, imo.
Absolutely agree with everything you just said
Marvel’s approach to normalizing healthy, emotionally open and vulnerable male friendships is something I think it deserves more credit for. In the blockbuster action movie landscape, it’s honestly a rare thing to see a franchise be so consistent about.
You know, just now watching Bucky save Steve’s neck in the alley for the first time since the movie came out, I feel like Bucky’s reaction is actually really honorable. He stopped the fight, and instead of pursuing the guy he let it go and went back to Steve. Clearly, he’s not in it for the fight.
The punk had to go get someone his size. Buck’s too big for him.
Frankly, between Cap and Bucky, Bucky might actually be the more perfect human being. Cap always has this desire to proof himself. But Bucky, Bucky has no ego at all. Even when he realises that after being all the time the guy in the spotlight he suddenly comes second to Steve, he takes it with a shrug and supports Steve all the way. Which makes what Hydra did to him so much more heart-breaking, because Bucky is such a caring person.
@swanpride
That’s why I hope Bucky becomes Cap one day. Sam was a good choice now since Bucky is still damaged and it’s good for storytelling to have a different kind of Captain America socially with different power too, and we get to know Sam more. But it would fit Bucky’s arc and his core character so well if he got the mantle, and usually I don’t even like legacy heroes. I hope they do Death of Captain America storyline with Sam and then Bucky will become Cap. And maybe Sam returns since that happens with comic storylines.
I just rewatched that movie and totally missed that. It’s a good observation though.
@@swanpride Someone else pointed out that when Steve asked him about getting his deployment orders, Bucky started and took a deep breath. That's a sign of nervousness. He didn't actually *want* to go, he didn't want to leave Steve, but he was conscripted and so had no choice.
Bucky seems cocky but a lot of the time he's kind of putting on a brave face because he knows Steve looks up to him and he doesn't want to show how scared he is in front of his friend. He needs to be strong for others.
Ok, so, I didn’t think “he’s undervaluing how much his friendship adds to their life” would hit me as hard as it is. I think I need to meditate on this for a bit.
Yeah, that's the take I haven't thought of and I like it.
I’ve watched this video so many times since it first came out and that still breaks me every time
Even in the first film, Rocket and Groot’s relationship felt like a parental one. The scene where Rocket berates Groot for drinking fountain water gave me the impression of a dad trying to keep his kid from sticking a fork in the electric outlet and getting exasperated.
If I remember correctly, local law enforcement in the movie described Groot as Rocket's "pet". While I don't think that's their exact relationship, I think it could be a similar power dynamic. I recognize my pets are adults and their own individuals, but at the same time we both recognize that they are reliant on me for access to resources and certain freedoms (namely going through doors). There's also a communication barrier that Rocket has learned to interpret through experience whereas people who don't live with Groot are more likely to not understand. On a similar note, Rocket scolds Groot for doing things that are mostly safe but go against human[noid] sensibilities of politeness or hygiene - like drinking from a toilet, puddle or decorative fountain.
This power imbalance also has some parallels to how a young adult's relationship can be with their parents and if we assume that Original Groot was similarly raised from a cutting or seed by Rocket that's probably the stage they're at as well. Since Groot has human-like intelligence but has priorities and capabilities that are very much not human their relationship is probably somewhere in the middle.
Also, Groot says "dad" to Rocket when he dusts away. So, you are right
@@thejaded the second Groot isn’t the same as the first though. Baby Groot is the first Groot’s son :)
@@megthemouse Is that confirmed or? Cus that's kinda cute lol
@@thejaded yeah James Gunn confirmed it! A little sad because it means the Old Groot did actually die but very cute that he left behind Baby Groot
Scott Lang and Luis are a great pair too. They became friends in prison and stuck together once they got out in order to help each other succeed and eventually to stay out of trouble. Not only are they good friends, but they help to enrich the life of the other as well as guide the other to better life decisions.
I see a part 2 in the future
He's not even in the third film.
That's one of the many good things in the ant man series that's overlooked and tbh also was missing in the third one... How could they not have Luis!
@@Vent69420 true but so much of the film was in the quantum realm. but they could’ve squeezed him into the intro….
I feel like there’s a Pierre differential though at least how it’s depicted in the movies, like Scott doesn’t REALLY respect Luis?
I love the call back to Sam being a leader for veteran support groups. Bucky has literally been a solider for decades, and not all of them willingly. Honestly, I don't think anyone else on the roster could have gotten through to him like Sam does in that scene. Certainly not the therapist lady.
I really do agree (I also like how Sam didn't judge when Bucky told him there were a couple of names that needed closure and Sam was really good about it just being like "that's cool just start with one").
And yet he can’t give two shits abt John Walker, also a veteran. If Marvel had been consistent, Sam would have sat down and talk to John Walker and slowly make him understand why the Shield doesn’t fit him or sth, instead of, you know, talking and sympathizing with a fcking terrorist
Honestly, Bucky's therapist is kind of terrible. I get that his situation is incredibly unique, but I feel like she should approach it more like someone who has escaped from a cult instead of someone with an addiction. Should he make amends? Sure. There's people, like Yori, who need closure only Bucky can give him. But unlike someone with an addiction there was never a choice Bucky made that then led him to do harmful things.
@@echoingvistas I never thought of it like that, but yeah, it's like Bucky was in a cult. There was even *literal* brainwashing.
@@melissaharris3389 commentary? If so, then that makes perfect sense because I despised her character.
Let’s be honest, Jonathan and Alan are the true Bromance of the century
Why do we have to turn being friends into a homophobic joke?
@@youtubedj9298 that's not homophobic, bromance is an innocent name for close man friendship, tge only one who turns it into homophobic here is you and that's literally the title of the video, why do you pick on the random comment instead of the video?
@@АлександраГришина-с5р bro + romance.
Yes, making a joke about dudes being gay is homophobic because the joke is that gay people are terrible.
I was actually just thinking that!
@@Stuff-is-cool stop bugging people.
I think part of the reason the therapist is as stern as she was with Sam and Bucky, is that they're soldiers. First and foremost that's a massive part of who they are, and so she's talking to them in a way they recognize and can more easily respond to
Exactly, she was as well. I always looked at her as the bad cop to Sam's good cop. Sam's tough love worked a lot better than "the notebook thing" lol
And she’s a military therapist too, if I remember right.
Her job is to make sure Bucky’s safe to be in the public. So I think that’s another reason she’s tough on him.
All very good points as to why the "stern therapist" worked for this scenario.
I can go along with this
Interesting take
Yes! I want the real therapist versus movie therapist run down! I work in mental health and this is something I am constantly having to explain to people.
Preach!
Didn't they kinda do that with Good Will Hunting?
Watch the episode where they talk about Robin William's performance as a therapist in Good Will Hunting. It's one of their best.
My immediate thought when Alan asked that was yes
I had honestly forgotten about Good Will Hunting.... I did just rewatch it though. Yes, Jono listed some attributes of good therapy and yes that portrayal of a therapist is great. However, there's a lot of bad therapy portrayed out there. Hell, right now people all over media and the real world are calling all sorts of things "therapy" that isn't even close. So yup, that video was a good start but I think we need more and I'd love to see that. 😊
"If he was wrong about you, then he was wrong about me" makes the tears burst from my eyes every time! It's up there on my list of insta-cry, right after Iroh: "I was never angry with you. I was sad because I was afraid you'd lost your way."
Now that you mentioned it, i need the interet dads to react to Avatar the last airbender. Like that would be awesome!
@@emmacameron4401 have they not done that? Because if not, they definitely should. There’s a lot of relationships in the last airbender with character growth written in to be explored and explained between Alan and Jono.
Leave from the vines
@@DropIt56 i dont think so. but it would be so interesting and cool if they dove into Irohs ideology, explored Kataras grief, Toph disability and "overcoming" it, or the freaking genocide of aangs people and how he deal with it. there is so much to the series, and i love it so much.
💯%
I feel like Nat and Clint definitely have a healthy bromance. 🤷
They really do! I'd never thought of it that way
oh my gosh missed opportunity! I hope the guys highlight some male/female friendships in a video, I know they're rarer but there are definitely examples of good ones
I thought they would be here! Both Nat and Steve / Nat and Clint
They're not "bros" though. So I think a different video with platonic guy/girl relationships would suffice.
People keep saying this but, no. A bromance is specifically and literally a platonic friendship between men. There's a pretty damned obvious reason why this doesn't apply to Nat and Clint.
I wish they’d shown that little clip of Bucky comforting Steve after his mom’s funeral. That’s a good friend there.
So many good scenes between Steve and Bucky, honestly same with Steve and Sam and Steve and Natasha…cap movies (Russo brothers) are just so well written and he builds such relationships with these people
I ADORE the bromance between Sam and Bucky, because they had to work for it. They not only had to put aside their differences in order to collaborate professionally, but in order to do so, they had to work on themselves as people, i.e. Sam not believing himself enough and Bucky carrying guilt. In the end, they ended up with the start of a beautiful friendship. Not based on how they knew Steve, but because ultimately, they got to know each other. :)
Exactly. There bromance is wonderful and hard earned.
Wish I could like this multiple times
Bromances are somehow more heartwarming and sweet than romances
Probably because a "love interest" is shoehorned into almost every movie, so we've learned to just ignore a lot of romances outside of their own genre as something hollywood just does.
Bromances just tend to depend on chemistry rather than relationships; the goal of a bromance is to showcase chemistry between the characters rather than chemistry often taking a backstep when it concerns a love interest, at least in my eyes.
There isn't as much pressure behind a bromance, and therefore, it can evolve more naturally and feel more real.
That's because romance is overrated
thats probably because love stories are usually forced into the story, and the time between meeting the person and them falling in love is very fast, and therefore unrealistic. plus, a lot of films show toxic relationships and pass them on as romantic
What I love about Steve and Bucky is the genuine warmth between them. While other BroTPs use snark, sass, or witty banter to establish “we are besties,” Steve and Bucky are always very warm, sometimes a little humorous, but I’d say never witty/snarky. And it’s been that way forever. Even back in the 40’s when Bucky is essentially everything Steve wants to be (strong, soldier, and good with ladies), there’s never any feeling of Bucky being better, he never talks down to Steve, the only picking at each other you really ever see is regarding Steve trying to (illegally) enlist and Bucky being the voice of reason. … which I also think plays into Civil War where we really get to see how much of a daredevil Steve really is 😂 and how much he needs Bucky to reign in his kamikaze self. But yeah, I mean Bucky shows up at Steve’s place after his mom dies and is like hey I’m here, you’re not going through this alone, I won’t let you. Hard not to root for people who genuinely care and express their care. ❤
Also, I’ve met Anthony Mackey and Sebastian Stan and I’m 100% convinced all the banter in Falcon & The Winter Soldier is just them improvising 😂
yh that's a great way to put it. Just watching them makes you feel warmer and happier inside.
also you've met them??! that must have been fun
Lol watch them in interviews. They are so funny with each other
Isn’t it a part of what makes Hydra so creepy, that it’s cyborg and mind control program came between Bucky and Steve but the one thing Hydra’s programming that already had fanatical devotion in its agents wasn’t prepared for was … Steve refusing to do it all day with Bucky?
Hmm...
"Don't do something stupid"
"How could I? You're taking all the stupid with you!"
"Jerk"
"Punk"
I dunno, I think they're plenty snarky, tbh. But, true, in another way than most of the rest.
@@Sigart That isn't snark. They aren't being critical of eachother or rude. They they are calling to parts of their relationship they know will communicate love, without having to directly state it.
I would LOVE to see a video about the psychology of Bucky/the Winter Soldier. There’s definitely a lot to look at as his story is spread across loads of movies.
YES
Comments have been asking for a Bucky Barnes episode dealing with PTSD and trauma for years now.
They usually do a Psychology of a Hero episode when the characters' story is complete and Sebastian Stan's not leaving the MCU for a while. He's got 2-3 films on his contract still; depending on if FATWS was negotiated separately to the existing contract or not.
AGREED!!!
The way that he can't help but beat himself up over things even though he knows more than anyone how little control he had as the soldier.
PLEASE
"But look at how he cradles the raccoon!"
"I knoOowWw... it's so adorable!"
Alan and Jonathan best, most healthy bromance. Hands down.
You guys should also do a reaction to “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe” (2005). Maybe it could be about sibling rivalry and how they mature and stick together? It’s just such a great movie, I’d give anything to see you guys react to it! Jono can analyze the siblings’ relationship and growth, and Alan can talk about the music, special effects, and Liam Neeson’s epic voice. Such a classic movie 👌🏻
To me, Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson's relationship is the best Marvel bromance. Just seeing them work together to create their own law firm and support one another through every challenge thrown at them is incredible to watch. Not to mention the sheer amount of sarcasm between the two of them!😂
Best damn avocados!! 👊
Oh I love that Daredevil and Foggy! Though if we're talking healthy friendships again, they get extremely rocky.
@@ann_sullivan avocados at law! 🥑
@Nogitsune they really do. Not always the healthiest on their end, but I think the circumstances are understandable. 😂
Frank and Curtis too
Talking about friendships.... I really liked the friendship between Steve and Natasha. Like how it evolved and where it went. It's really nice to see a friendship between a woman and a man that doesn't have a romantic aspect.
I like that too. But Clint and Natasha are my number 1.
it was actually cute to see how Nat cares for Steve. Like, she was trying to get him a date in Winter Soldier. I think it was a nice call back in Endgame when Steve said that they need to get a life and she says "You first"
Yes! I ESPECIALLY love how his wife and Nat are friends, and how she trusts Nat will always bring him home. I love their whole dynamics ❤
I wish it was romantic though. I loved the idea of her being the one to help Steve move on rather than him pinning for Peggy the rest of his life. "But strong male and female friendships are so refreshing!" Agreed, but that's what her and Clint's relationship is for.
@@oliviarogers2808 well, they tried to pair Nat with Bruce in Age of Ultron, but the idea kinda got lost after Thor Ragnarok. You think it would be better if they never had a romance, but it would be with Steve instead?
The thing about Peter's choice to not to tell MJ and Ned is honestly pretty complicated, mainly due to one thing: the recent events are still fresh in his mind. Ned and MJ have been in danger multiple times. I mean, MJ would have died, if another Spider-Man hadn't been paying attention.
That's the big thing here. He knows them. He knows they'll be there for him in the hardest of times. But he's also painfully aware that being there for him could very well get them killed. And he doesn't think he's worth them sacrificing their lives. This is a young hero who is still reeling from Tony's loss. And we saw how he initially handled that, coupled with what Mysterio did.
There's a very real possibility he feels like an imposter. That he doesn't belong beside the Avengers or any other hero. And that's not even mentioning what the reveal of his secret identity did to their lives.
And, of course, Aunt May. I get the feeling we're going to get a much more initially isolationist Spider-Man in the upcoming films. In his eyes, everyone who has gotten involved with him being Spider-Man has either died, nearly died, or had their life torn apart due to his presence.
EDIT: As for Steve and Bucky, something people often overlook is that Steve is a man out of time. All anyone knows him for in modern day is Captain America. But Bucky knew him when he was just some scrawny kid from Brooklyn. He's the only one who knows who Steve truly is. And adding to that, Steve feels responsible for Bucky becoming The Winter Soldier in the first place. Is their friendship sometimes unhealthy? Yes. But even in those times, Steve is willing to give Bucky benefit of the doubt because the two are brothers in all but blood.
He knows Bucky doesn't want to kill people. He knows Bucky is acting against his own will. He wants people to see Bucky Barnes, not The Winter Soldier. Because that's the big thing. Steve knows how it feels to not be seen behind public perception of you. Even Tony only saw Cap, not Steve underneath the costume.
Peter response is pretty realistic. Yes. And you can understand perfectly why he didn't tell them. And yes, we all understand why Peter made that mistake. But is still a mistake. He is a teenager grieving and that kind of people often don't make the best choices. That doesn't make him a bad written character, but humanizes him.
Regarding Steve and Bucky yesssss I feel like what you said encapsulates a lot about them 👏
I think Peter was just deciding to take things slowly. Let the friendships come back on their own and then tell them. That was my first thought in the theater. Am I the only one who thinks so?
@@jensenrogers6611 Not exactly but I Thought it might be one thing on his mind.
I think the fact that he also knows they get in danger and the recent things are also on his mind. And he saw the two are great friends and happy, I think that is another reason why he would not go in there right now.
In the end, I think he should do it, and we have to wait if he will or won't bring them back in his life.
I even thought he might want to grow as a hero - so to speak - because he saw what the other two Spidermans where like, what they went through, and maybe sees reason to improve himself to better protect them once he told them. Because that is the one thing that is pretty clear: Garfields Spiderman accepted that another person wanted to be in his life, but she paid the highest possible price for it. I think she was very aware of that risk and took it, but still, he lost her so to speak, and Holland's Spiderman saw that he still suffered due to that loss. (that made the scene where Garfield saved MJ so strong)
What I disagree on is that he undervalued their help in things, because I never got the feeling he did that. I just felt there were alot of variables that made him wait a bit. I hope that he will do it, since he gave them his word, but I feel like letting some time flow by to change some things isn't the worst thing to do. He has the responsibility to do it when the time is right, so for me it felt like a mature decision due to the situation.
@@Rakshiir I wouldn't say he undervalued their help, but HIS meaning on their lives. And, to be fair, this is the MCU. A universe full of dangers at every corner where people are at existencial risk every couple of months. This same two kids were erased from existence on IW and got trapped in the Battle of NY on Avengers 1. Even if we take into account Homecoming and Far From Home, Vulture had already made their city dangerous by selling ultra weapons and Mysterio was endangering people anyways. Not to forget Thanos sent his goons to NY previously. What I'm saying is that, in a world like this, nobody is really safe, heroes' acquaintances or not, and by having them in his life, he could not only honor their wishes but protect them better. That's the lesson Toby Spiderman learned from SM2 and, in the end, he is the best adjusted of the three, managing to have a life and being a Hero.
I'd say that's the point of the ending. Peter isn't taking this decision purely from love, but for guilt. He seems himself as a hazard to others. I'm confident the next Spiderman film will be about him learning to connect with people once more and not letting his fears of endangering others isolate him.
I always love a Sam Gamgee reference. He is the best friend anyone could have. I hope you'll do another video on Marvel bromances/friendships. I'd love to see Clint and Natasha, Tony and Bruce, Tony and Happy, and maybe Nick Fury and Coulson (also Coulson and Melinda May if possible).
Coulson and May! Would love some praise dropped on them ^_^
@@Nortarachanges anything Coulson! I loved him before I knew the rest of the MCU in Agents of Shield. Always so cool and collected.
@@hendrikscheepers4144 there’s a difference between Purpose and Job. His Job was to be a gardener at the Baggins house. His purpose was to stick with his friend Frodo on a terrifying, way past either of their abilities or understanding adventure so that by their humility and determination they could accomplish together what not even Gandalf could have handled alone world saving quest. When Sam thought his friend had died, he took the ring to try to accomplish the quest in his stead. When Sam found his friend alive, he was able to give up the ring despite all its temptations. And at the foot of Mount Doom when Frodo couldn’t go another step on his own, Sam carried his friend up the mountain. Sam is a hero. I won’t stand for this slander /light hearted ^_^
Loki and Mobius too.
I love Strange and Wong because Strange is so arrogant that he needed someone who will hold him accountable, and he has the authority to back it up. Arrogance can truly be a fatal flaw and sometimes the greatest show of love is helping someone realize their flaws so they can grow.
This is a really good point! The first Dr Strange film really drives home that his arrogance consistently alienates him, so his ideal complement is someone who helps him work on that.
It's the John to his Sherlock 🥰
The actor that plays Bucky does an AWESOME job with his reaction to Cap's "I'm with you to the end of the line."
The combination of shock, horror, admiration, and indecision is really well portrayed.
Absolutely! It's such a phenomenal bit of acting that's so subtle yet so intense, there's so much going on at the same time and not one percent of it feels out of place or forced. Sebastian Stan does an amazing job
Sebastien Stan 😍
You can see that subtle change in his eyes when he switches from WS to Bucky. Sebastian Stan is one of a very few actors who can tell a story without any lines....
That's one of my favorites moments of the whole MCU.
@MerelvandenHurk He takes it even further in the beginning of S1 E4 of Falcon and the Winter Soldier. It is a flashback of when he was in Wakanda getting deprogrammed, and Ayo of the Dora Milaje tests the effectiveness of that deprogramming on Bucky. If you don't have tears in your eyes by the end of this scene, you may want to get help.....most tortured soul in the MCU, and he just knocks it out of the park. He deserved an Emmy for that scene alone. Florence Kasumba is so great as Ayo as well as she makes it very clear she cares a lot for this poor man.
Two videos in the span of 3 days? Oh, we’re being FED 😮💨
What I like about Rocket and Groot is that their relationship arc grows from friends to father and son. It really hurt in Infinity War when Groot started to dust away and James Gunn actually translated Groot's words to reveal Groot calling Rocket, Dad.
Thanks, now I'm crying into my cat.
It's actually 2 different relationships. Original groot and new groot are not the same as confirmed by the director. Rocket basically adopted his dead best friend's son.
@@user-re6xt2xf3k there needs to be more films like that, dude raises his dead best friend's kid would be awesome for couples night and stuff.
20:44 Sounding off in the comments again about something my wife and I call the Spider-Man move. Breaking up a friendship or a relationship with someone because you are “too much” or “ruining their life” is disrespectful to them and their choice and their agency. Thanks for acknowledging this, Cinema Therapy.
I can understand it might seem unhealthy, the relationship between Steve and Bucky at that one point when Bucky was pretty much out for his neck, but I think that's what makes this friendship even more profound and strong, because Steve saw Bucky for who he truly was. No one in this era knew Bucky anymore, except for Steve, and if Steve couldn't even differentiate between the Winter Soldier and the real Bucky, then who could, and without that loyalty and trust, how would Bucky make the recovery and to regain the self he lost from all the experiments and controlling from Hydra? Steve was stubborn in his mission to save his friend, but it's also him trying to keep the one piece of himself that was buried with time and lost and death. That was his best friend who he lost once, and to lose someone a second time would only hammer in the thought that he could never do right by them even given a second chance. It's not really unhealthy(?) if we take the context and think about it thoroughly, and a friendship that actually stands the test of time.
I understand what you are saying but i somewhat disagree. Steve has a tendency, especially after finding out Bucky is alive, to put Bucky above all else and I believe that goes to an unhealthy level. Steve himself says something about it in the beginning of civil war after Rumlow mentions Bucky as a way of distracting Steve. I mean, the clip they use is literally Steve letting Bucky (granted, he is the winter soldier here and doesn't remember Steve) seriously injure him in hopes of getting through to him. While it is a superhero movie and things aren't going to be totally realistic, letting someone injure you (physically, mentally, emotionally) in the name of friendship (or love in general) isn't healthy.
@@diabeticsrule1763 Except, I think its being taken out of context. It was a *fight* Its not like an abusive relationship and Steve is letting Bucky beat on him for the hell of it. He's already saved the world. He's tried everything, that line was the last resort. Short of shooting Bucky in the face, which ... he's not gonna do (especiallly since the Avengers have *won* by this point and it would be against Steve's moral code to kill a defeated opponent) there was no other way.
Or to put it another way, Bucky once sacrificed his own life to protect Steve and Steve is... returning the favour. In way. Risking himself to save Bucky.
Also that scene with Rumlow. Rumlow's not trying to distract Steve. He's trying to get his attention because he wanted to blow himself up and take Steve with him. Again he knew he was beaten and that was his revenge. Its like taunting your adversary at the last minute so they'll do something stupid.
Right! I think its meant to mirror how Bucky sacrificed himself to protect Steve in The First Avenger. Steve sacrifices himslf to save Bucky in TWS - and Steve belives in Second chancs. A lot of characters in the MCU had one. Why not Bucky?
The "He didn't honor their choices" argument for Spiderman is so interesting to me. Because if I took the time to put myself in Peter's shoes, I think what he did is completely rational and understandable. But from an audience member POV, I see what these young kids went through and I just want them to have each other to lean on again.
First I've heard of this myself and while yeah he didn't honor their choice, he's also a party to that choice and thus gets a say as well; and at the end of the day as the one who has to actually enact those choices, he gets final say. To me this was more a sign of how much he'd matured. Initially neither he nor they understood the danger they would be in by being in his life and they all kinda dove in head first.
Now though he understands the potential consequences much better and it makes him pause to weight the danger to their lives against his desire to have friends again...because don't forget, they are no longer his friends at this point. Even if he does tell them what they once meant to one another, they will never be those people again because they will no longer share all those experiences that made them friends in the first place.
@@RoninXDarknight Counterpoint: while Peter has a hard veto as the only one who can enact the decision, Ned and MJ are the people most directly affected by that decision, so they should have more of a say in the matter.
It's a major recurring trope in superhero stories generally - "I have to lie to you, gaslight you, and make decisions for you without your input because if you knew my secret identity, you would be at risk". There is an argument in favour of treating someone like you're their abusive spouse, but there's also an argument in favour of treating someone like an adult capable of making their own choices about what risks to take rather than taking their choices away from them.
Yes, they didn't know what their lives would be like without knowing Peter Parker, so Peter, at the point of decision, has information they didn't, but he doesn't know what having him as a friend meant to them subjectively - and we can never know how our decisions will actually turn out, so perfect information is, at best, a mirage.
The bottom line is that Ned and MJ, knowing the risks of being friends with Spiderman, chose to accept those risks in order to be friends with Peter, and Peter decided to take that decision away from them.
@@RoninXDarknight I would argue he did get to have his say. It was when he was discussing what was about to happen with them forgetting. His say at the time was "I promise to come find you and restore our friendship". You're trying to suggest both "Peter deserves an equal say because it affects him" but also" Peter should get the only say in something that affects Ned and MJ". Those are two completely different sets of rules.
Ned and MJ deserved to have a say when he was changing his mind. If he told them "we used to be friends and it put you in danger and I think we shouldn't be friends anymore" and they agreed, THEN it's okay for him to walk away. Likewise if Peter told them upfront "I'm not coming back for you, I want you to go live your lives without me", then it's okay for him to walk away. But objectively they made one decision as a group and then Peter makes a completely different decision after the fact without any input from the other two. By your own argument, they're a party to that choice and thus get a say as well.
I've seen arguments for this online, and I have to say I agree with them: In media, a lot of the time, women's agency has been taken from them by men, a lot of the time 'to do what's best for them'. And they've shown and told the audience multiple times that MJ is slow to trust people, she actively wants Peter in her life, she says she's a better person with him around, and then for him to see that cut on her cheek, something that would heal within a week, probably, and decide to take away what he'd promised her, what she had withheld their first kiss for, what she'd begged him to do in their last moments together, is Hollywood yet again taking the agency from a woman because 'she doesn't know what's best for her'.
@@RoninXDarknight I do agree a lot with this, but to me it seems like Ned and MJ are not only fine with being in Peter's life and being exposed to the dangers associated with that, but they do actually enjoy it. Ned loves being the man in the chair, and he's always super excited when anything interesting happens, whether it be danger or some sort of progress or other good thing.
That's also a really good point at the end though: if Peter were to try to become friends with them again, the friendship would not be the same and it would likely be much weaker, since Peter had known Ned for years prior, and a big part of building their friendship more was Ned helping Peter figure out his powers and stuff when he first got them. Right now, Peter already has a great handle on his powers and doesn't need much help from Ned anymore.
The recent Antman movie made me want to see a list of Marvel parents. I think that would be fun to see you two rank!
Love this idea!
I second this!
You have my vote :D
I support literally anything marvel related, please talk about my favorite movies more.
They did an Ant Man episode focusing on blended families, but yeah, that could be built into a series of parent videos!
Sophie's editing is becoming more unhinged every episode and I am absolutely here for it
I also think Bucky and Steve’s relationship was the strongest because they are able to be vulnerable with each other, they have helped each other when they were at their lowest, and you can just tell they have had this warm friendship with each other for a long time! (Plus “till the end of the line” is probably the most ICONIC bromance line I have ever hear!!!!!)
(Their banter is also visible different from some of the other bromances because it’s almost never snarky or arrogant but very playful and soft, like it never comes across sharp, if that makes sense.)
Sam and Bucky's bromance is my favourite and the most emotional to me because they had to put in the work to actually get to that point. . They started as enemies, then were sort of forced to work together but were still one-upping each other each step of the way, then they had to set their differences aside to fight a bigger threat (Thanos), then they were abandoned by the friend who had got them together in the first place. They were understandably kind of adrift at first, dealing with lots of issues, and the fact that deep down they still cared for each other and were able to see past those issues and finally become true friends and allies, that's real growth to me. Also, let's give more credit to Sam, he was almost killed at least twice by the WS and he still was able to put that aside and help Steve look for Bucky, then work with him, and finally accept him as part of his life. If he was kinda snippy with him at first... who can blame him?
i used to love Steve and Bucky's friendship, but not gonna lie, the way Steve just up and left Bucky to go live in the past broke my heart and made me see Steve in a different light. I would no longer rate their bromance on the top spot because of wehat Steve did, no matter the reasons he may have had.
What I liked was that Bucky wasn't jealous that Steve gave Sam the shield.
yeah, steve's ending was super out of character. marvel didn't care about staying true to his writing, they just wanted to give the mindless masses in the audience the perfect cliche, white cis male ending.
o.o
@@MonAhgasInsomniAroELF I mean, wasn't expecting marvel to make Steve and Bucky an actual romantic pair, if that's what you mean, I'm a sucker for non-toxic male friendships and bromance so I wouldn't have liked that either, what I meant is that there was no real growth for Steve, he was never able to let go of the past, to the point that he chose to go back to it and leave the people who sacrificed so much for him behind. And as much as I know he had a right to think about himself first, the way he did it didn't sit well with me, even if I get that the writers needed a good reason to get Chris Evans out of the movies since he wasn't going to continue with the character.
@@magickelfgirl oh no, i never expect a canon queer pairing between main characters tbh, especially coming from marvel. so while imo that would have been the _best_ outcome, with sam wilson filling the best friend role (since nat is gone 😭), i wasn't at all expecting anything like that to happen. but i did expect characters to stay true to the way they've been characterized for years, and for steve to get a healthy ending that he deserved. so ship aside, yeah i totally agree in that sense. i think there was definitely ways they could have had steve pass the mantle without the character regression we got instead. steve simply could have passed the shield to sam and taken off on a soul-searching journey, riding off into the sunset with his sketch pad on his motorcycle to find a new life goal. that would have been such a hopeful, positive ending with a good message, maybe even could have gotten a cameo from him in future movies, peeking in on his new life as an artist or a teacher or an architect or a counselor or *_something._* and quite honestly, i even would have rathered he died in the last battle than the ending he got. 😑 the reason i mentioned it being a cliche cis white male ending, is because getting the girl and moving into a house with a white picket fence and raising 2.5 kids and living happily ever after is the "dream"/expectation for white american men, and the pushing of that narrative not only hurts the chances to have queer characters (steve is bi btw, ships aside, idc what anyone says and canon can suck it), it also hurts our chances of having more non-toxic, loving platonic relationships between men, and between men and women in media. basically, the curse of heteronormativity hurts all of is, even the straights, and it's why we didn't get a better ending for steve. 😔
I would argue Tony and Rhodey have a better friendship, because when Rhodey comes back a completely different person, Tony accepts him for who he is. Truly a beautiful friendship.
Tony just dealt with that
Hahaha this is true!
They also forgot Tony's friendship with Happy. Especially in End Game, Happy remembering how much Tony loved cheeseburger is definitely a punch in the gut
“If he wrong about you, he was wrong about me” and “Then finish it. Because im with you til the end of the line” are, in my opinion, some of the strongest lines in the MCU. Also this video reminded me of how good the writing and overall quality of the MCU movies used to have.
Both those moments are really carried by Sebastian Stan's performance.
The helicarrier fight is one of the best in the MCU, and Winter Soldier is one of the best films overall due to the emotional drama taking precedence over the spectacle. I mean, there's all this CGI destruction going on around them, but all the viewer cares about is if Bucky will remember Steve.
It's a forgone conclusion that Steve will save the day; all tho, the film does an excellent job of pushing the tension to the last possible moment, making it very rewatchable. The core of the film is, 'Can Bucky be saved?'
Sam and Bucky feel like bickering brothers who don't get along. Sam's jabs are actually really mean at times. Especially since as a VA counselor, he better than most, should know that Bucky's staring 'freaking cyborg brain' issues are all symptoms of his severe PTSD. But, in Sam's defense, he's really annoyed and angry with Bucky (and Steve) at the beginning of the show.
@@melissaharris3389 I don't think Sam being angry is an excuse for literally mocking someone's disability and trauma. Sorry no matter how angry you are it is never acceptable to mock or taunt someone on the basis of immutable characteristics. Its like if Bucky used a r*cist slur against Sam. That would never be acceptable, but it goes both ways.
Also, just to add its possible the starting thing isn't related to Bucky's PTSD but to brain damage which some canon sources say he had. It might even be a form of disassociation. EIther way its wrong to mock it and giving the impression such things are OK is one of the worst aspects of the show.
Gosh I hope Jono is ok after the sneezing. Of course, we'll respect your family's privacy but I can't imagine how hard that must be and just know that we all love you and support you. You can get through this.
And remember according to John and Hank green sneezing is not normal
@@annielovesu1 That is the first thing I thought LOL
@@annielovesu1 for anyone curious, here's the video. 4 minutes long. John Green is a gem and must be protected at all costs.
ruclips.net/video/g6ipMj8HDDM/видео.html
Thoughts and prayers and healing energy, for sure.
I'm out of the loop on this one, why can't jono sneeze?
I'd be really interested in seeing a breakdown on Bucky's therapist as well as his therapy in general because to me, she always seemed a little too harsh on him, telling him to stop fighting, telling him to apologize, etc. But what he actually ends up landing on is, in the very end, finally saying , "I had no choice" he finally admits outloud that he was a victim. I don't think he said that for the whole series until the very end, he was so focused on all the wrong he did when what he really needed to do was admit that he'd been hurt.
That's what annoyed me with the series. It really played up the idea that Bucky was a willing participant or simply *bad*, and never really acknowledged how much of a victim he was. Everyone, including Sam spent most of the series acting as though The Winter Soldier was just Bucky's evil alter-ego waiting beneath the surface to re-emerge when that was never the case. I personally don't think he should have been made to apologize but rather simply encouraged to confess to victims families, because apologizing is acting like it was his fault and his choice. HYDRA were the victimizers, not him.
I'm hoping they include Matt and Foggy because they technically are part of the MCU now. Their friendship is so great, they even have 1 whole episode just to show how deep their connection and finally at the end of season 3 they accepting one of the other.
Yessss!!!!
I would love one on female friendships! and maybe have sophie as a guest for it to have a female perspective. I always find that female friendships in film can be so complex bc of male writers not understanding how to even write a female character and many other factors. Even looking at the MCU, its only just recently that marvel have started to explore true female friendships/sisterhoods (whether they're great or not is subjective).
The problem is that outside of Gamora and Nebula, I can’t think of another two women who are bromancing. Captain Marvel and her African American friend (who’s name I obviously can’t remember)? Jane Foster and Kat Denning’s character? Jane Foster and Valkyrie?
@@shinankoku2 Yh I had a similar thought too that's why I think its better to explore the idea of female friendships more broadly in film than just the mcu. Its apparent that Marvel has not valued female dynamics (especially friendships) as much as they do for male friendships/bromances. And I think the reason for that can be attributed to how they write or position their female characters (more so in earlier MCU projects than the later ones) in their movies. Natasha didn't get a movie until AFTER her character died, we already know people's thoughts on captain marvel and any other female character that is given any sort of proper attention in the mcu has only just happened on a larger scale in phase 4.
@@shinankoku2 Yeah. The best developed Marvel relationships between women are semi-sister relationships, and I don't know if that counts as the same category. Gamora and Nebula, and the Black Widow sisters are the best told female friendships and they still don't hold up to the male friendships in this episode.
Marvel is still a male dominated audience. The problem with female friendships in my opinion is, if the said females aren’t fighting each other then they turn them into potential lovers. This appeals to the male audience. I’d love to see female friendships too, as a female marvel fan. I’ve also noticed if the female character isn’t scantily clad then she also “must not like men”..🙄🙄eye roll city!!
@@blumoon12 yeah man. Also her most screen time was with men, cap and Clint. Shame we didn't get to see more of her and yelena. We were robbed.
I think it could be argued that without the friendship from Steve, Bucky would never have overcome the brainwashing he endured. He would've just been another bad guy defeated. Steve acknowledging the fact that the Winter Soldier and Bucky were actually two different people was the ultimate act of friendship. He had seen the spark of recognition in Bucky's eyes and knew that his friend was still in there somewhere. He then risked his own life for Bucky to overcome what had been done to him. I think your ranking was perfect. Great video, as usual, guys!!!
I would like them to just do ones on best friends in general, including some of these bromances and including pairs like Clint and Nat, Shang-chi and Katy, T'challa and Okoye, etc.
Yes! I agree 👍🏻
The soul-gazing thing is used as an acting excercise quite bit...just look into each others eyes for 3 minutes without saying anything and try not to manufacture a reaction but let it happen. It's astounding what it does for connecting actually. It really does work if both parties involved are willing.
As am introvert, this seems like literal hell 😅
What do you mean by "try not to manufacture a reaction but let it happen"? Because I know if i was doing this I would start cackling 5 seconds in
I would love to have you do an episode on Bucky handling trauma from his past.
Matt Murdock and Foggy Nelson are great examples of a bromance. Like Cap and Bucky, they went through the shitter together. Season 2 of Daredevil (and Matt's alleged death in Defenders) tore them up so bad it really hurt to see. It was really heart warming to see them back together before Daredevil was cancelled and taken off of Netflix.
True, and even till this day, that scene where Foggy found out about Matt's identity was actually one of the most gut wrenching "secret identity gets find out" moments I've seen in superhero movies/series. The actors' performance also brought the best out of that scene.
Others would usually portray identity reveals as mostly a shocking and/or funny moment, but nah, the Netflix series (imperfect as some of them may be), brought out the darker, more solemn, and more melancholic tones of the MCU and this scene, and the entire DD series, did a great example demonstrating those said tones.
Sadly enough, the marvel disney plus series would likely never live up to series like Daredevil and the Punisher. It really was a shitty move to cancel them.
Not enough talk on this topic, it’s a great bromance, or even just regular friendship
sam and bucky will forever be my favorite bromance, but they are all sooo good
I love how Sam and Bucky went from having a mutual friend in Steve to having a real strong friendship by the end of TFATWS.
@@kai_winchester_66 yh their progression from kinda competing of being "steve's number 1" to being really supportive friends is very well done. And the banter and bickering they do just feels so natural and it makes me smile every time
Tony and Rhodey’s bromance will always be number 1 for me. I think it has to do with that quiet support they have for each other that makes my heart ache. Through all of Tony’s shenanigans Rhodey really demonstrates a love and fondness for him.
Actually what pegs their bromance down is the fact that tony kinda falls short and kinda takes rhodey for granted for too long
@@marcuslobo5765
Tony really does that with all his close relationships for the first couple movies. He takes them for granted, stretches their patience and comes around with unreasonable expectations. Part of that is that he doesn't really respect people's time and property including his own. Trying not to do that is part of his character growth and he's still working on it throughout his entire presence in the franchise. He gets better at it with Rhodey and Pepper, less so with Happy.
I would love to see a video talking about movie therapists! I’d also love to see separate videos on Bucky and his PTSD, as well as Sam (who is also clearly dealing with PTSD, and impostor syndrome, and the complexities of being a Black man who now carries the mantle of Captain America). ALSO (sorry, I have so many ideas 😅) a video exploring MCU sibling relationships would be fascinating. I especially love Shuri and T’Challa’s dynamic, and that would be so cool if you could look at them as well as Nat and Yelena, Thor and Loki, Gamora and Nebula ☺️
Peoople have been asking for a seperate Bucky video for ages, but we still have not had it!
Would love to hear your thoughts on Loki and Mobius! The development of their friendship was one of my favourite aspects of the show
I wish you would have included Natasha and Clint. Here me out, no Natasha isn't a man, BUT their relationship has EVERY hallmark of a bromance outlined in this video and the MCU. And it would have been cool to see you go through their bromance.
I think they should rank opposite sex friendships to show that they can happen and they not be at all romantic.
Bromance Nat isn’t a man
Since you mentioned other bromances, I’d love to see an episode on Road to El Dorado with Miguel and Tulio, or one that ranks bromances with them alongside other animated films like the Ice Age trio, Emperor Kuzco and Pascha, Mike and Sully, Woody and Buzz, Lightning and Mater, Timon and Pumba, Mr Incredible and Frozone, etc
Disney bromances sounds like a great suggestion
OMG YES!!!!
Especially Miguel and Tulio or even just a road to el dorado episode.
wow I really like this idea
@@lizzeh that's dream works but yeah
This made me realize the lack of female friendships in the MCU. I can only name like two?...carol and maria, and maybe okoye and nat? We had our sister relationships like Nebula and Gamora, and Natasha and Yelena but sadly those didn't last. It's a shame that Nat and Wanda never had any scenes together where it was just them, considering they were the only female avengers. I really hope we get more female friendships in the future. I like the recent additions Shuri and RiRi, and maybe the Marvels will form a little bestie/sisterhood trio. I hope we also get Kate and Yelena - these two have CRAZY CHEMISTRY. I mean cmon, they're basically the new Black Widow/Hawkeye duo - it just makes sense for them to be besties like their predecessors. Maybe with the new roster of heroes being more m/f balanced we'll get more.
I think one of the main reasons we didn't see much friendship between women is, as your last line implied, there just weren't many other women on the team to talk to. On the other hand, I think it would feel artificial if they made two female characters friendly just because they both happen to be women.
Wanda and Nat had scenes together and even lived in the same compound for a while, but outside of work they just never clicked. They had great relationships with other people. And throwing in a scene with all the women just for the sake of inclusion would only come off as delivering fanservice. It works great in a big action scene (see the girl power scene in End Game), but not in establishing characters as genuine people.
Carol and Maria works pretty well because they have history. (The execution is a little bland.) Shuri has nuanced relationships with multiple women some of whom are family. Natasha is equally capable of deep, rich friendships. But most of her close friends happen to be men because her job takes up most of her time and she works in a male dominated industry.
Yess, I agree with all of this. I think Shuri and Nakia could work but absolutely Shuri and Riri worked together great and Kate and Yelena were an absolute joy to watch. I hope we get a lot more of them!
@@BonaparteBardithion completely agree
@@sross9501 so true, I hope marvel realizes their greatest assett is these actors and the character interactions. That's what made these films so beloved in the first place. Don't take for granted the acting treasures you have in these franchises.
1000% I would love to see not just Jono breaking down movie therapists but Alan breaking down meta-cinema or just films about making films or about filmmakers- that kinda vibe :DDD
Second!
I wish y'all added Nat and Clint to the list. They have a great bond like siblings which is very rare to see a platonic friendship. Also, I would love to see y'all cover Wakanda Forever and make a list of parent/child relationships in the MCU.
Sam and bucky are my favorite because of the growth. Their friendship gets it's own arc.
I highly agree with Jonathan's opinion about how therapist are being portrayed on movies being so stiff and sometimes even seems rude or doesn't give too much interest about their clients. Please do a video discussing this more! I would really like to hear more about this!
Yeah so far, as movie therapists go, Sean McGuire from Good Will Hunting is, bar none, the most infested movie therapist ever
Very true. I do believe certain therapist get portrayed based on where they work. So with Bucky, he is dealing with a military therapist, and my theory a therapist who is trying to get him back to work, thus the Thunderbolts.
I love Susan Sarandons portrayal of the therapist in Rick and Morty! I’d totally watch an episode on the differences with real life, and with tips on how to find a good one would be great! I’ve tried therapy a few times, had two really amazing ones before I moved, and after a lot of disinterested cold ones that give zero prompting or guidance. It’s stressful of thinking of starting a new one when you could be wasting your time and money in the end of you don’t click with them.
@@ItsBAndBees If we're stepping to television shows, Monk's therapist is one of the tops.
I think the therapist in Modern Family was pretty good
I have the same feelings and views on Peter not telling them, BUT I will also say that Peter not bringing his friends back into the fold of his life is still a good decision. While he adds value to their life and vice versa, it's ultimately a decision of whether or not he can withstand the burden of being a friend that constantly puts his loved ones in danger. I think it's heart breaking all around no matter what he does.
And here's a little perspective to consider: I'm severely mentally ill. For most of my life, my mental illnesses have made me callous and mean and manipulative and toxic. For years I refused to recognize that I was the problem, but when I did, I suddenly found myself NOT WANTING to have friends, NOT WANTING to see people, not even really wanting to be around my own family, because I had come to recognize how much hurt and harm I had caused the people around me. It's hard to want to have friends when every friendship you've ever had, crashed and burned because of you. It's painfully lonely but I'm more afraid of hurting the people I love and care about than I am of being forever alone and isolated.
I had a brother who was schizophrenic, and also mentally retarded. It was really difficult to cope with his episodes, but he was still my brother. The baseline for life isn’t the veneer of happy niceness. It’s pain and suffering. He died six years ago, and I still miss him. I miss the quirky way he walked, and the genuine affection he had for people. It was still a rocky relationship.
I guess my point is don’t make your family’s decisions for them. They’re adults too, and should have at least some say in deciding if they want to go through the pain of being in a relationship with you, or the pain without.
I love the 'sisterhood of travelling pantses' :) between Carol and Maria. The way Carol always had her back and when Carol was fighting to find her identity, Maria reminded her who she really is. I think this one of the most treasured moments, cause that's what a true friend does, they help us see ourselves for who we really are and remind us of our true identity. Would love if you'll guys do a video of 'The Marvels' at the end of the year.
Bucky is my favorite character in the MCU! THANKS FOR HAVING HIM HERE. I would love to see more MCU relationships that you guys analyze. If you're looking for other examples of intense friendships in the MCU, the Daredevil series might be next. The dynamics of the friendship between the three main characters - Matt, Foggy, and Karen are really something to behold.
I feel that Steve is staying with Bucky even when he became toxic is akin to helping a friend going through a hard substance abuse problem. He's not leaving him alone with that weight.
I felt like was enabling him which is the opposite of what you should do. You should show them love, but don't be an enabler.
@@reneecoons5057 Not to say I disagree, I just don't see it. Enabling, how? In what way?
I disagree that Steve is an enabler in that metaphor. If anything, Bucky was kidnapped, drugged against his will, forced to do things he never consented to and then further drugged to keep him from resisting. Steve if anything is someone that got his captors away from him, stuck by Bucky through detoxing and has done everything he can to help Bucky find people that have the skills and experience to not just continue being clean, but also provide him with the guidance to mentally recover from his trauma.
Or to quote the previous episode "this is my family. It is small and broken, but still good."
@@richardwarnercool1 Thanks.
Now the onion-cutting ninjas are back in my apartment...
@@richardwarnercool1 Agree 💯
I would love to see you talk about early Science Bros. Obviously during/after Ragnarok Bruce Banner's character got majorly side-lined for the sake of cheap comic relief, but in the early Avengers movies he was incredibly complex, and his relationship with Tony has so much material to break down. Tony was the only person on the helicarrier who wasn't afraid of Bruce. There's a really sweet moment (props to Mark Ruffalo) where Tony intentionally tries to get a rise out of Bruce by prodding him with something sharp, and even when Cap is addressing Tony, Bruce is smiling to himself. With zero dialogue, you can see how genuinely comfortable Bruce is around Tony, and he's so happy to be treated like any other person on board. Small moments like that, all the way up to the big moments, like when Tony was the only person who knew Bruce was going to show up for the Battle of Manhattan, make for such an incredible dynamic.
I was really hoping Tony and Bruce would make this list 😢
Came here to to get therapy. Ended up crying when Steve said "I'm with you till the end of the line"
Absolutely screaming at 23:31, the editing and song choice is IMMACULATE 😄😄
The "We are Groot" gets me every time
The bit about Peter undervaluing his worth in their friendship is so true in my case.
I always thought of my friends as greater people than me and I always found the good in them even when they couldn't. I just didn't realize that they viewed me the same way, until one day we were all talking and we brought up what we liked each other.
I had so much to say for everyone else but when it came to me, they were all saying these great qualities about me that I didn't even know. I was uncomfortable but thanked them to be polite, which would have got the conversation moving if it were anybody else.
No, these precious friends of mine immediately could tell that I didn't believe them and each gave me an example of something I did which supported each of their points. This went on until they knew I started to believe.
I am not one to cry in front of others, I always hid and cried but that day I teared up because I finally felt seen and valued.
Those friends I made sure to never let them go because I knew 100% that each of them has my back. It's been many years since that day, and we have all managed to stay strong together.
I'm so glad that God managed to cross our paths so that we could meet and become best friends.
🥹😭❤️❤️❤️
That is so sweet. I'm really happy you have people in your life who can read you so well. 💛
oh my god didnt think a random commentors story on youtube would be making me cry today 😭you are so, so blessed to have found people like those, your comment reminds me of my own friends, who I love just as much. Ugh, good friends are just so precious 🥺🥺
You are very blessed, and I'm glad you could recognize that.
You know what I love about you guys and this channel, it’s one of the few places on the internet right now that is positive and real. It’s like a light in the dark! Me and my partner love watching you guys. Thank you ❤
Wow, thank you so much! 😊
@@CinemaTherapyShow
I would actually be quite interested in your thought process behind how this therapist in Falcon and the Winter Solider was written and portrayed.
I perceived it as an intentional decision to write her as stern or abrasive because they wanted to write Sam as a supporting role for Bucky's inside life, but at the same time, I feel as if they DEFINITELY could have written her to be more...OPEN. More caring, not in a romantic way, but in a way that says, "I DO genuinely want to be able to help you," instead of "you're being difficult and closed off, and I'm not being paid enough to be kind."
EDIT: and as a word of encouragement, I have found your videos to be quite thoughtful and considerate while holding heart, and not being judgemental. Keep up the good work, guys!
@@CinemaTherapyShow AND
Maybe you could even do a breakdown of The Winter soldier's character, too, I'm definitely seen a lot of people in the comment asking for that.
@@a9h4n6 TBH, patient/therapist relationships have boundaries. Even if the therapist is a fun, upbeat person, Bucky still had a lot to gain from Falcon that therapy sessions just can’t substitute for.
@@CinemaTherapyShow
How do I tag you guys, outside of someone else's comment?
There is an account impersonating you. I just 'Reported' them.
Sam and Bucky's friendship reminds me of me and my best friend. When we were very young we had the same best friend and we did not like each other, after a few years that mutual friend moved states away. So we kind of fell into friendship and it's been strong for 20ish years 💜
That’s awesome!
One thing y'all are forgetting to take into account regarding Peter not telling Ned and MJ at the end of NWH, is the fact that Peter is just a kid! He is on the Avengers, lost Tony, lost Aunt May, watched his best friend and girlfriend's lives turned upside down and almost die on multiple occasions, likely has PTSD, and had to make a decision that any adult would struggle with and force everyone he knows and cares about to forget him in order to save their lives. He is 18 years old while dealing with all of this. An 18 year old that knows he is going to continue putting his life at risk is guaranteed to struggle with the decision of, do I tell them or don't I, when multiple adults go back and forth on it after having months+ to think about and debate it.
Plus there is the problem of, how do you convince 2 "strangers" that you are actually best friends, and the reason they don't know this is because a wizard did a spell to force them to forget about you in order to save the world? So let's go back to being how I remember us even though there is no way for you to do that because there is no way for you to get those memories back.
Personally, I think his only choice was to let them go to college and live their lives, and hope that someday in the future they run into each other again and start a new friendship that is not dependent on Peter's memories, but memories that they create in this new reality. Only after building that friendship should he tell them, because then they are more likely to believe him.
Yes, I would be interested in a video about the therapist from Falcon&Winter Soldier and maybe of Sam, cause he is also kind of a thearapist.
Maybe you could rank other MCU relationships in future videos. Maybe with focus on blood relationsship or "master and apprentice" or actual love couples.
I know a lot of people read many MCU Bromances as actual love couples. I like that you ranked them in terms of healthyness and loyality.
I would love to see a ranking of mentor/student relationships in animated movies. Interesting dynamics at play.
All i can say is there can't be anything positive to say about dumbledores mentoring style
I think a part of Peter's choice to not tell Ned and MJ was that he was scared there was no room for him in their lives anymore. They both got accepted to MIT, they have a future and plans that have nothing to do with him and he's just a nobody who happens to be Spider Man. They memories with him entirely edited out. All the emotional bonding was erased. I think he might tell himself that he did it for their sakes, but deep down, after all the loss he has suffered, he's afraid to be rejected and turned away by the few people he cares about that are left.
A very interesting way to put it. After all, Peter is a deeply traumatized kid by the end of NWH
I think the reason the therapist in F&WS is because she's a former Shield agent/veteran or something like that. Also she's assumedly been dealing with both of them maybe since they started working with shield. But that last part is mostly a theory
A breakdown of movie therapy vs. real therapy would be fantastic! Would watch immediately! 💯
I feel like cinema dads could do a whole ranking of Holmes & Watsons. But they usually don’t do old movies. But it would be fun!!!!
I want an analysis of the relationship between Steve and Tony, because Tony's anger and distrust towards Steve - while arguably unfair - is so completely real and understandable.
Yes this would be such a good video!!
Steve and Tony are an example of a frenemy relationship
I'm sorry, which one hid the murder of the other's Parents again? That's right, _Steve_ is the distrustful one, and And Tony is completely justified.
@Oturan20 Don't misunderstand me, I'm fully on Tony's side for that part of Civil War. It's why I like Steve less as a character than Tony.
@@ratking1608 The MCU story line started going downhill when they decided to not have Tony or JARVIS help Cap in CA:TWS, before CA:CW he's ok as a character, not my favorite but I didn't hate him. After CW I can't stand MCU!Steve. The more I think about CA:CW, the more I Hate it.
A bromance video is not something I thought I didn’t need but I LOVE it. Can you please do a Guardians of the Galaxy video about found family and analyze their group dynamic? 🙏🙏🙏
Bucky and Steve are one of my favourite on screen bromances. Steve was alone with no one else who'd lived through WWII, been frozen, and was trying to make sense of the modern world until Bucky came along but Steve has to deal with his guilt for feeling like he abandoned his best friend. They have shared experiences no one else could understand.
And then he actually did abandon that best friend to go chase a girl who had already lived her full life
@@CaptainPikeachu It seemed to me like Bucky was happy for him and supported him in his choice. Throughout the films his thoughts keep going back to Peggy and the dance he never had with her. It felt like Steve was both passing on the shield and Bucky to Sam and trusting in Bucky to look out for Sam. That was the end of the line for Steve.
Steve even says it. "It's hard to find someone with shared experiences."
Number one is Tony and Rhodey. It is the healthiest relationship of all those presented here. Rhodey in particular is an amazing best friend. He's not afraid to tell Tony when he's wrong, he's firm when he needs to be, but he's always there with Tony to help him when needed. Rhodey is no stranger to Tony's failures, but neither is he to his successes or his good intentions. When Rhodey messes up, Tony is there for him.
They support each other, comfort each other and are there for each other. For me, it is the best example of a healthy adult relationship.
They have what Steve and Bucky lacks. The loyalty between them is unquestionable. But they are not able to help themselves, nor are they aware of the mistakes the other. Steve only saw Bucky and not his winter soldier persona, or everything he had done over the years. He was unable to help Bucky deal with the consequences and get over the trauma. In fact, Steve left it alone to handle it. Bucky also couldn't help Steve see his inner worth and look for other alternatives to military service at the start of Captain America. I don't doubt their mutual devotion, but I don't think their relationship is the healthiest in the MCU.
One I would love to see you guys talk about, especially since you have already talked on him a bit before, is the Loki show, specifically, the relationship between Loki and Mobius. I find it absolutely fascinating and where they end up at the end of the season I think was really beautiful.
Awesome video! Wish there were female friendships like these in the MCU. The only female-female relationships I can think of off the top of my head are Natasha/Yelena and Gamora/Nebula and those are familial relationships, so I don’t really count them. Kind of a sad realization. 😢 I will say I do enjoy the friendships between Natasha/Clint and Natasha/Steve, since they’re platonic friendships between men/woman which is nice to see! Also something we should see more of! 😊
You forgot carol and Maria, unfortunately we didn’t see much of them
Don't forget Okoye and Shuri or Nakia and Shuri
@@Sophie-gn8jw yeah 🥲 and Maria isn’t a main marvel hero so it can’t compare to these bromances that span over multiple movies
I wish there was a deep, developed friendship between Natasha and Pepper, they were both in so many movies together, it was an untapped resource! And maybe Gamora and Mantis too 🤔
@@pinkhouse248 still need to watch the latest movie 😣
Jono: Now, I know there are fans who are saying the subtext is there, and the fanfic is definitely there.
Alan: Of course it is. (Sophie made us do ALL the research).
You two ARE the real bromance! I love watching and learning from your friendship :)
Thank you! 😊
Thor and Loki would be interesting. I don't how much it's a bromance rather than actual brotherhood, but they're definitely an interesting duo.
I just watched every single video of yours over the last few weeks and I want to thank you. I’m a film-trained writer myself who was raised by therapists and helped them run a clinic in San Francisco for a while, so this channel really combines all the things I love.
Currently, I’m living in Spain and caring for my grandmother who has Alzheimer’s and dementia. Even without the immigration aspect, this would be the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Have you considered doing a video on The Father? Hollywood’s made so many depictions of Alzheimer’s and dementia (Coco, This is Us, The Notebook) that are well-meaning but frankly, complete bull. But The Father, even though it was advertised as a horror film, is the most accurate, most empathetic depiction I’ve ever seen and I’d love to get your take on both the perspective of the person with Alzheimer’s and of the caretaker.
Thanks again! Hope you’re all doing well 💚
I wish you had also kept the original "I"m with you til the end of the line" scene because that really explains why Bucky and Steve love one another, with Steve having lost his mother and thinking he had to be alone, wanting to have a stiff upper lip, and Bucky coming in with that pure and genuine emotional support. Even though they did have their toxic time in the middle, the way they show up for each other both emotionally and physically is unparalleled. So I think they are #1.
Others I would've added: Nat and Clint (I wish it didn't have to be just dudes!), Nat and Steve, Banner and Stark, Banner and Thor (come on by Endgame they were SO SWEET and grew so much).
I really don't see what's toxic about it. Its literally just the movie trope of being prepared to sacrifice all of yourself for your loved one, die for them if needs be.
5:51 I'd quite like an episode on Jonno doing his favourite therapists in media. I want to open it up to media in general so he doesn't feel confined. It would help a lot of people in knowing good traits to seek.
Also my old therapist mentioned you in his blog post recently.
I second this motion.
I'd love to hear his thoughts on the Wednesday therapist. From what I've heard from other therapist react channels, she's not great
I remember he's only said that he liked the therapist from Good Will Hunting. I'd say the therapist on the show "This is Us" is good too. I'm a mental health professional and it's SO hard to find good representations of my job in the media. They either do the basically "illegal" trope of "advice giving"(which good therapists are trained to NOT do), or they're like cold, arrogant, condescending know-it-alls. Have only seen a few decent ones in media.
They've done an episode on the movie "What About Bob" where they look at Bob's new therapist, Dr. Leo Marvin (ruclips.net/video/tXBB9ADIyTo/видео.html) and in Psychology of a Hero: MOON KNIGHT and Dissociative Identity Disorder, They talk about the "fake therapist" (Harrow, the psychiatrist) in Marc's internal mental asylum (at ruclips.net/video/Yr6tO2j5v9g/видео.html)
@Brian Bortner I loved both pf those episodes. I think it would be nice to go a little further into traits Jonno thinks are essential for good therapy. I mean he has on his other channel but it hasn't got a great following.
So often in comments on this channel people talk about trauma directly related to how their therapist handled their support. It would just be nice to hear Jonno talk about inspiring therapy instead.
Have we ranked sibling relationships? I love seeing great healthy sibling relationships in movies and tv, because so many sibling relationships on screen are antagonistic. So many of my favourite movies are about siblings - In Her Shoes, and Raising Helen, for example.
The comment of "A man in uniform owww" at 22:22 is so good. It's all of us honestly
I still think Peter did the right thing not telling them. After MJ only avoided death because another superhero was in the area, he learned that another universe’s Peter lost his girlfriend by being the hero, and especially because Aunt May died because of his choices, he realized that their safety was worth more than his promise to find them. Sure, it sucks that they lose one of the people they’re closest to without even realizing it, but they’re young; they have a whole lifetime of fulfilling friendships ahead of them. And Peter knew if they reforged the relationship with him, that life that they should have would be in danger at every single moment.
Also what are the odds they believe him?
Please do an episode about Rick and Evie from The Mummy! They have the healthiest marriage I have ever seen in a film and I would love to hear you talk about them!
I always read the Peter Parker/Ned/MJ thing as him waiting for them to get to know him in time rather than just giving them up and not trying to be friends again.
I think the difference between riding out a hard time with a friend compared to needing to leave an abusive relationship should be made clearer.
Love this! on the topic of Bromances, but the other way round, I have been dying to see an episode on the Banshees of Inisherin! So much to unpack there for you guys!
Toothless and Hiccup are an amazing bromance
To me Peter’s goodbye to Ned hits harder than his goodbye to MJ just because a friendship like that is so hard to come by they’ve clearly been friends for so long where Peter and MJ haven’t really
I'd absolutely love a video on just bucky and his ptsd, there's so many scenes of his I'd love to you guys react to of him and also analyzing bucky's therapy scene and his therapist.
Holy sh*t! I can't believe Jono hasn't already done a break down of the couple's therapy scene from Falcon and Winter Soldier. Not just that, but Bucky's entire therapy arc. Please do!
Steve and Bucky’s friendship is similar to having a friend with addiction or ptsd and staying by their side through it. Not the healthiest at times but the amount of loyalty and forgiveness is healing in THIS story.
Saying its toxic is a misunderstanding. Bucky and Steve are brothers. They would die and give everything for each other. What's wrong with that? Other characters in the MCU are like that and nobody calls them toxic.
I've been following this channel for over a year now and I'd like to thank you for so much that you have taught us as audience. As a Spanish native speaker I'd love to show your videos to my family, but they don't know English. I've been able to show them some videos that have cations in Spanish, it would be absolutely enriching to have more videos with a wider language variety. Love you so much, guys, keep doing an amazing job and for not having the "curse of knowledge".