my own opinion and why sprint is actually a good thing. >can escape ambushes and outnumbered by the enemy >it makes you THINK when to use sprint and if you used it incorrectly that is your fault when you get killed
Old time halo player here, the first time I played halo was after the Armistice was signed on November 11 1918. The first thing I did after I returned from deployment was pop halo 3 in on the Xbox 360
Saying that sprint should be in gameplay because Spartans can obviously sprint is like saying that there should be a toilet mechanic in halo because Spartans have to poop too
@@chriskatz2355 Because the suit is over 1000 pounds, because sprint as a base mechanic permanently affects map design, because being able to move at top speed and shoot at the same time is better then that being separated, because every weapon in the sandbox has to become too op and kill time lowers, because camping is annoying, I could go on.
@@adenjones1802 For the last time; something cannot make the game less competetive if EVERY player has the ability. You can sprint too, in case you didn't realise that, and when others are sprinting they are more vulnerable. What you mean is you've developed a play style that relies on people being unable to move quickly, and now you're struggling to adapt to the improved game mechanics of the new titles. Well, dittums
@@buenolar1214 Wait, you mean I can sprint too? HOLY SHIT I HAD NO IDEA. YOU HAVE BLOWN MY MIND. I always though the game was programmed so that my specific copy came without sprint. My bad, that fixes everything I mentioned about weapons having lower time to kill, how camping is incentivised, map stretching etc. "something cannot make the game less competitive if EVERY player has the ability." Let me ask you then, if every player always spawned with a sniper every match, would that be a competitive game? Yes. Would that be a fun game? No. I don't know why you brought it up. I never said being more or less competitive was a good thing you just projected that onto me. What you really mean is that you have developed a play style that relies on the game playing like Call of Duty or any other generic shooter, and now you're struggling to adapt to the improved game mechanics of the older titles. Well, dittums.
@@Lanay_ I mean he stated that in the video saying in halo 3 you get cornered by grenades because you cant run away from or dodge them like halo 5. The clip in the vid of the perfect kill afterwards sums it up.
Even some people who where introduced to the series by Halo 5. After Playing all the older games. Feel like Halos original gameplay is more fun. Hell im one of those Schmucks!
The funny thing about "story being in service to the gameplay" is that you can use story and lore to explain certain gameplay elements. Things like Spartans being able run and shoot accurately at the same time like they've done throughout the original trilogy. Tanks have had turret stabilization for over 50 years now, it's 100% likely that 500 years in the future we'll be able to implement that functionality into a suit of armor for infantry.
Veteran Halo player here, been playing CE since the age of 3. Because of this my opinion is above all others and my veterancy status has the last say. If you disagree with my objective facts then you are a noob and not a true Halo fan. I represent all Halo veterans, even those who think I am wrong. They simply don't know what they want. I hereby declare that sprint is
Sprint is in Call of Duty 4 because it is a tactical shooter. You see the same thing appearing in other more tactically oriented games like Battlefield 2, or Rainbow Six prior to CoD4. By having sprint, ADS, and movement bloom you create an environment where you trade off movement speed for accuracy. Standing still and aiming gives you maximum accuracy and damage, sprinting completely strips you of the ability to shoot but let's you move fast. Moving normally limits your accuracy but still lets you shoot, for example for prefiring around a corner. Together with a fast ttk, it creates an environment where sprinting from cover to cover and taking up a good firing position ahead of time is rewarded, while mindlessly running around is punished. It makes the game about static, tactical positioning. The first level in CoD4 has a skillgate (e.g. you have to crouch under this thing to progress to prove you can crouch) where you must take cover behind some sandbags while some enemies run by and shoot them in the back. All the multiplayer maps are designed around sightlines, static power positions, and open areas. It takes the principles of a realistic, tactical shooter, simplifies it, and then turns all the dials up to 11. It's not Tom Clancy's, but Michael Bay's Rainbow Six. Meanwhile Halo, and other classic shooters like Doom, are all about dynamic movement and evasion, running and gunning like an action hero, rather than tactical positioning. It doesn't make sense for that gameplay to slow you down to aim, or take away your weapons to move.
Sprint worked in COD because it was very fast paced. Sacrificing the ability to aim for extra speed was worth it, especially with the slow walk speed. You can't walk through enemy fire, but you can sprint through it. Most guns were also pretty inaccurate without ADS and would only reliably hit stuff right in front of you. ADS makes your gun laser accurate, so that makes it worthwhile. You kind of had to do it in COD and COD also had very sticky aim assist, so ADS would also usually snap you right onto target. All of this makes ADS an important part of gameplay. Meanwhile, Halo just wasn't originally designed for ADS in its gameplay. Could it adapt? Sure... But why fix what isn't broken? There was nothing wrong with there not being sprint. Just make the default speed faster if people and their crap attention spans are whining so much. I'd prefer that.
I like how 343's take to all this is just slow sprint judging by the infinite gameplay demo to make it completely useless in anything beyond traversal because halo doesn't have vehicles or anything to travel around the open world faster than base movement speed.
Actually no, your moving about the same speed the bigger difference is the base speed is faster so it doesn't seem like as big as boost, which balances out the mechanic, it still functions pretty much the exact same way as 5, which is what I meant, it still serves the same purpose for being a catalyst for slide and crossing long gaps, not that it was faster, I was pointing out that OP made out like sprint in 5 devalidated vehichles which I don't agree with, I think there's different variables that contributed into making people think that way
I hate when people say "oh Halo needs to evolve." Well, obviously it does but there are thousands of other ways to do this and have it still feel like Halo. Just look at the innovations in the original trilogy: New weapons, new vehicles, vehicle boarding, turrets, detachable turrets, equipment, duel wielding, online multiplayer, character customization, new game modes, forge, firefight, custom games, theater, new enemy types, new enemy interactions, etc etc etc.
@@SacredWo1f04 read my comment again. A lot of those things I listed were introduced in Halo 2. Besides, it's not like Halo Infinite is having any problems coming up with new sandbox items and interactions.
i know how to solve the issue just make it so that you are always sprinting and do every you normally can when not sprinting. oh wait that's every halo before reach.
the dumbest argument for sprint is that supersoldiers should sprint. bruh the default walk in halo has been perfect from 1 to odst. the only reason it feels slow is because of the tight fov
At this point the lack of sprint would be an innovation. You can tell someone has no idea what they're talking about when they think innovation is just adding more features, even if those features have already been done in other games. To be innovative is to come up with something new in a positive way, not just copying shit from other games regardless whether or not it works in your own. Copying Titanfall wasn't innovative. So yeah that argument is getting old. Finally Infinite seems to have actual innovative features, including a modified sprint that doesn't destroy the pacing of the game but still allows for other forms of mobility.
The majority of FPS games on the market feature sprint. It is a must have for the genre. So cry all you want, it’s staying for the long haul. Since this comment was made 5 months ago you probably have seen/played halo infinite with its updated sprint system. THAT is the way to make sprint. They don’t need to stretch the maps out because the speed is only slightly faster than your average speedwalking Spartan. It makes it a feature that me and many others with enjoy having. But not make it necessary for you to use.
in·no·va·tion /ˌinəˈvāSH(ə)n/ noun the action or process of innovating. "innovation is crucial to the continuing success of any organization" Similar: change alteration revolution upheaval transformation metamorphosis reorganization restructuring rearrangement recasting remodeling renovation restyling variation new measures new methods new devices novelty newness unconventionality modernization modernism a break with tradition a shift of emphasis a departure a change of direction a shake up a shakedown transmogrification a new method, idea, product, etc. plural noun: innovations "technological innovations designed to save energy"
Game design shouldn't and indeed truly can't be dictated on the basis of 'reality'. Games aren't real and attempts to render them realistic would severely curtail their freedom of design. Game design shouldn't be about trying to recreate reality; it should be about whatever serves good *gameplay*. Arguing otherwise is short-sighted to say the least.
Defending the use of sprint because of cutscenes and the fact they’re super soldiers was and always has been a flawed argument. This can be used on any game, even outside FPS. The lack of sprint is due to the design around the flow of the maps, it’s never been that deep. Why can’t link in the old games sprint? Why can’t any of the Team Fortress or Overwatch characters run? Good grief
I do find it funny when people say the original Doom games had separate running and walking speeds. Are these people not playing Doom without run enabled all the time? Sure, there's that dumb level where you have to tiptoe over narrow ledges so of course you will slow down but usually you're set as run by default.
I guess I'm part of an extreme minority. I don't necessarily find the effects of Sprint on gameplay to be appealing, but as someone who loves to just go into theater and screw around, get cool screenshots and clips, that added variation of character animation for some angles is very valuable to me, and it's something that I think works well for those who'd rather make machinimas than play multiplayer on 'normal' circumstances. I want Sprint around for the more creative prospects it can bring to the table, rather than it's detriments to gameplay by being fundamentally integrated. If you asked me, I'd keep Sprint, but only in custom games. Let the multiplayer be as refined as it can be, but let those previously existing mechanics like Sprint, AAs, even Advanced Mobility all exist in a custom games environment. The potential for expansion with this is unfathomable.
A simple solution for halos movement issue: Single digit percent autorun when not firing for a few seconds moving forward, with a zero recovery frame weapons sway. Looks like sprint, feels like it, has the big map or uncontested map traversal benefit. Does not affect scaling significantly and is not effective in gunfights. A small base movement speed increase would also be nice. Succesfull crouch jumps could have a zero recovery frame weapon bob animation to simulate clamber and indicate succesful jumps. The Crouch jump height increase could be bigger. Thrusters could return in a toned down fashion. An extra dodge function that has to be timed has utility in halo.
I think a lot of the debate around ADS in Halo stems from the fact that the fanbase is divided. To oversimplify, there are the fans who know what an "arena shooter" is and the fans who grew up in the "COD era" of gaming. The COD era fans just grew up expecting ADS. The people who understand Halo is supposed to be an arena shooter are probably the ones hating on ADS. It's very much a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" feeling for us.
The sprint folks have only one good point. The movement speed in halo 3, reach, and 4, are all too slow. I would like about 120% of halo 3 movement speed.
It's because almost 60% of the video is spent avoiding any valid point and using people's opinion pieces to make the one point he did tackle seem more illegitimate
@@JBzucc This is hardly the only sprint video on the internet but ok. What point would you like to be made on behalf of the pro sprint side? What arguments do you believe were left out?
@@adenjones1802 well I'm sure you wouldn't need me to explain it when there are videos covering it, an over simplification of what annoys me in these videos is a lot of these facts are misconceptions or emotionally charged opinion pieces holding a biased towards the anti sprint side, cause yeah you look at the comparison between the two clips that everyone uses in every anti sprint video but that's like the surface level example of how sprint works, with sprint and slide, it adds another layer, having clamber it adds another, the excuses people use are most of the time people claiming the mechanics are bad with only have a basic understanding of how they function within the sandbox I know I didn't give an actual example but I'm sure other people who know more about how these mechanics work would do a better job like Shyway, but if you insist I will elaborate with more detailed issues, I just didn't want to write a novel
@@JBzucc Honestly, go for the novel. I'm here for it. I have seen skyways videos and he doesn't address what would be the biggest issues in my opinion and that would be that the weapon damage has to increase and projectile weapons get thrown out. For example, if the brute shot doesn't come back in Halo infinite, we know why.
@@adenjones1802 Hmm that's interesting cause I think projectiles can still work, I think what made it worse was having thrust which I'm personally glad is not gonna be in infinite, with projectile weapons I can still see that working, i think the issue is the accuracy, if they keep the brute shot the same as halo 3 which if it does return I'm sure it will be balanced within the sandbox, the issue isn't the movement so much but I think the weapons as well, something like what they did with the H5 AR is probably needed which is adding a crit head shot multiplayer, giving it viability within the new meta, I'm distressing quite a bit but you get my point, I think it could work and agree I am worried they might not be able to pull it off but I don't think it's solely the movement that has made them last viable, ever since 3 the brute shot has never really been something I've seen anyone really use in MP, you could possible add a mechanic like a bleed or playthrough that damages through shields but is fairly inaccurate when your getting to mid and long range, not sure if that would be totally balanced but it could work to compensate for it being projectile based weapon
Common misconception I noticed: Halo 3 has the same move speed as Halo 2, which has the same forward move speed as CE (though iirc slower acceleration and a lower jump)
That shyway video is so fucking stupid. He just proves that 343 have taken the basic ability of moving and perfoming combat and turned it into a convoluted button combo mess. And on top of that, most of the advanced mobility and combat combos that he shows off only work when moving in the direction you're facing. Watch some Halo 3 MLG and you'll see players crouch jumping and navigating the map while aiming away from the maps geometry. They've developed the skill of memorizing jumps and the maps' layout so they can get from point A to B while moving backwards. You cant do that in Halo 5 because you need to be facing a ledge to clamber it. Not to mention how this advanced mobility trash murders the sandbox by nerfing vehicles and removes certain weapons utility factor, pro sprinters never seem to address 90% of the issues.
I think Halo Reach did sprint the best to balance both the pros and cons of with sprint and without sprint. My reasons are simple, 1. It was an optional ability to pick up, 2. It had to recharge, which means that it isn't unlimited like in the later 343 games and 3. You can't shoot when running and takes a second or two just to place your weapon to shoot. Let's also not forget that strategy wise, the player has to choose between say a bubble shield or sprint, the player can have one ability to carry and would need to think about the pros and cons of using one over the other. Of course because the developers that made sprint balanced, it didn't satisfy either side of the topic of sprint in Halo or video games.
[Game] veteran here, this objectively bad game or mechanic is actually good or the best in the series! *check their account or learn that they're 15 and we're like -10 when the originals came out* Every single time
Yeah halo 3 was 17 years ago. The people talking online about this stuff are kids who just don’t even know what they’re talking about because the never actually played the old games in their prime
Idea: How about if you go forwards for long enough, you gradually go from base speed to something like 1.5x speed over the course of 10 or 15 seconds or so. To balance it, make the timer reset when you take damage and you don't strafe fast. No putting your gun down to run and no bitching out of gunfights.
Halo newbie here, only been playing since the PC MCC launch- I'm indifferent to sprint mostly, but I will admit it definitely changed the vibe of Halo and if I were making a game I'd probably just use whatever input that would normally be used for sprint on something else. Like sprint in Halo won't ruin Halo for me, but to me it's like ADS- it's a tactical thing, you're exchanging one thing for another. In this case, it's swapping your offensive options for added mobility, making you prioritize whether or not you should run or fight. And I don't mind having to make that decision in Halo, but at the same time in my mind Spartans shouldn't have to choose between mobility and offense exactly *because* they're Spartans and should be easily able to do both.
I’m not subscribed and only watched that one video that blew up, but still this got recommended to me. So theirs a chance the same thing is gonna happen lol
ShreddedNerd with his car example not connecting to lore* Me as a car person this is funny. Having a MK4 Supra fully tuned in a Forza game freely driving around isn't realistic at all, the Supra or any fully tuned car in general like a drift tuned FC RX7 or rally tuned Subaru, no matter what the care it would take a shit if Forza or need for speed was connected to "lore". The lore argument for sprint in Halo is just a stuiped defense for it.
Exactly what i was thinking, doom is the perfect example of retaining the core gameplay of their older games and reincarnating it into the new ones, even doom eternals artsyle isnt different from the older dooms from like 30 years ago
At risk of sounding idiotic, I think that Halo is in a way the thinking mans FPS. Most others are basically hide and seek where the victor in a 1 on 1 encounter is whoever shoots first. The slower pace and higher time to kill in halo helps you take advantage of its huge sandbox and options in different types of situations including those in which you are not the first to shoot or spot an enemy. A high IQ player can even dominate against mutiple better equipped players. There aren't many modern shooters with the same style of gameplay.
Okay, to answer the question of "why do you like sprint?", because character go fast and dopamine rushes. Might just be adhd, but I like being able to rush from point A to point B, and I don't get that feeling when just pushing a joystick forwards. Feels like my only option to accelerate further is rocket jumping with a brute shot or something.
@@zeyode no not really. Games are meant to be within fulfillment. Not replicate the chemical responses of drugs and gambling bud. Otherwise by that logic, lootboxes were good
@@fkdaybreak3626 which is fine. It’s perfectly fine to enjoy Halo 5 in its own merits, but you would be lying to ur self if u said it provided the same kind of experience the trilogy was known for. It’s a different food all together. And that is where the problem lies
My take on sprinting is that it makes me feel more powerful in game. It's true that base movement speed is faster in older titles and on paper it is awesome. Being able to move at top speed and shoot no matter what direction you are running is great objectively but in game it doesn't feel as strong. I feel powerful in Halo when I sprint as fast as an olympian and soar through the air to land some fat melee attacks. Makes me feel like Master Chief in that Halo 3 trailer way back in the day. Probably for this reason, I favor Reach and H4 more than the other games. I really appreciate your perspective, especially the consideration of the mechanics and effects on gameplay overall. You're absolutely right that sprint needs to be balanced for multiplayer gameplay. In response to anyone who says that Halo Reach, 4, and 5 don't feel like Halo games I would say that each game is just a different pair of glasses to experience the Halo universe with. That is why we have books and movies too. There is something for everyone to enjoy. Stick to the ones you like and hope for new content that fits your style.
With sprint, I can move faster than someone who shoots. I am able to avoid enemy bullets/projectiles with an ease. In the old games, if someone started shooting me, I was always in a disadvantage and had to hope that my teammates would make the 1v1 an 1v2 in our favour. In the old games, stacking was too effective, and as a result you could be a wanker that sticks to your teammates and have an unfair advantage for that. I hate how you can’t win an 1v4 in old halo (unless you have a proper weapon). In the old games, if someone disconnected, you would be in a numerical disadvantage and defeat was 99% certain. Why even try then? Also, I never played Halo 5 but I can definitely see why clamber was added. Many people claim it is unnecessary by using Valve games as examples. However, Valve games has a much lower mid-air time and air strafing. As someone who grew up with Valve games, I feel like a sack of potatoes every time I jump in Halo. A new player will inevitably bump in the platform he wanted to jump on, which show how inaccessible classic Halo is. Edit: on a side note, this video did a terrible job at explaining why people loved sprint, it only shows why people claim to do so, but there is a significant difference that shows how underrated sprint is in Halo.
You absolutely can win a 1v4 in the old games. thats one of the many things that makes the old games great. Having the "proper weapon is kind of the point of a *SANDBOX* driven game. How exactly would adding sprint fix a numbers advantage lol? Also it is the pro sprint fans that never listen to our arguments. This video had pictures of comments from people making these arguments so unless he photoshopped them..... He listened. If you have any other arguments let me know but could you also do us the courtesy of addressing our arguments. Because thats literally never been done. Ever..... like not even once. I'm literally scouring the internet to find a sprint fan that actually addresses our points and has an argument against them. Other than like maybe shyway but he just explains why sprint synergises well with other mechanics like thrust etc. Not why it on its own makes for good halo gameplay.
Considering you tried to say the video did a bad job explaining why people love it, you did too. You can win a 1v4 with no issues if you're good enough. You don't have to be a Halo master to do that either.
15:32 quake and unreal tournament place a premium on ALL skills. map control, aim, reaction time, shit talking, movement, and prediction of other players movement are all huge parts of those games. you also had to master 4 different aiming styles (flicking projectile hitscan and tracking projectile and hitscan)
I PERSONALLY am indifferent to sprint, it has its ups and downs. I think either a faster base speed in Infinite or sprint is necessary for an open world map because you might find yourself without a vehicle sometimes. In 3,2 or CE no its simply not necessary. I’d much prefer the just faster movement speed over sprint but it depends on the game. But it can be UNNECESSARY or Bad: cough : Halo5: cough cough.
I'm fine with Sprint in the context of Reach's equipment system, as it's an easily-communicated function that has real utility, but because it can be traded out, the levels can't be built with it specifically in mind, encouraging more of that combat-sandbox feel.
Exactly. So many people blame reach for adding sprint. But due to halo reaches level design and equipment system, picking sprint usually left you at a disadvantage. Jetpack gave you way more mobility options. Love or hate armor lock, it offered much more utility than sprint. Only noobs and bad player terminally used sprint. It simply wasn’t that good… expect for when you had an energy sword then it was op lol
Really enjoy the points you make in your video. I've been arguing the sprint mechanic for years now. Halo waypoint is the worst place to go lol. Its full of those who defend 343i and their arguments are trash to say the very least.
Yeah the people hanging on to Halo Waypoint are always the most fervent defenders of 343. Ironically its those same people who freak out the most whenever 343 inevitably fucks up.
Personally, in an arena game, I prefer smaller, tighter maps with slower movement speed. In Halo, I like BTB because the vehicles make up for the difference. Not a fan of sprint as a mechanic personally because it requires much larger maps to accommodate, debases the role of vehicles, and it makes movement too forgiving. For instance of the last point, I find that in Halo 3 if one finds themselves caught out-in-the-open you might be doomed without a lucky plasma grenade because you cannot simply sprint to cover. Also, isn't sprint sort of a skinner box? It seems that whenever sprint is included it just becomes a button that one mash whenever they move. It's just sort of pointless imo unless you're dealing with some sort of high one-shot-to-kill military simulator game where the half second of weapon readying might be the difference between life and death.
Before I watch this, I think it's pretty funny to have a video on why Halo players love sprint despite a lot of hatred for it. Personally, I love it. It makes Spartans feel more like the books. I'll shut up and watch then add an edit when I'm done.
Veteran here :p Truth is halo isn't halo anymore. It's evolved too much. Started turning with reach and hasn't looked back. In Halo 1 through 3... Move your thumbstick all the way forward, you are now sprinting. I will defend this statement. Those who want a specific type of shooter, there are games for you. High frag respawn sim - COD, tactical shooters Swat or arguably R6 Seige, Party Shooter - Halo, Esports shooter - Counter Strike, Battle Royal - Fort Night or Pubg, MOBA like - R6 Siege or Overeatch. You want to make a MOBA make a MOBA, you want to make a tactical shooter then make one. But don't make a tactical shooter and then as an example throw halo on it. This is just dumb design and it's why many of these ventures are bleeding revenue. They listen to a minor majority of players saying they want halo to be fast paced and eSports like. This alienates millions of dollars and millions of potential players and then runs a once popular franchise into the ground. Halo isn't cod and shouldn't be. COD isn't halo and shouldn't be. If devs want to make a halo game, they should make a halo game, like it was originally intended, just like any other property. If you want to make a halo game that is like COD with all the craziness, make a new title established in the Halo universe but do not make it Halo. Halo is dieing because it's changed too much, that's just a fact. I can understand some people want that fast paced experience and that's cool but everyone can agree it's not original halo design. These new halo games should have been named something different because they aren't halo and that is once again just fact Everyone out there who enjoys them then that is awesome but I know the entire of Xbox group I played with hasn't boughten a copy since 4. Just my group alone has over 40 people in it. That's a decent chunk of change to throw away chasing trends that a minor faction of the halo base wants devs to implement.
My favorite part of this is that there's a video of a someone getting it working, but in place of a proper animation the Spartan just keeps flipping two birds.
Sprint rewards bad plays, constricts gun time, and disrupts the flow of the maps. Halo should've kept its unique identity instead of copying fps trends.
Ironically enough sprint nowadays sprint seems to be more of an outdated gamedesign trope than reloading... CoD is nearly as old as Halo. Sprint is nothing new. And to call it modern gamedesign while saying Halo is outdated game design. Is a special kind of arrogance. (Halo CE, 2001) (CoD: United Offensive, 2004) Even worse Infinite proved that sprint does not need to serve an gameplay purpose for people to be happy. It's an animation that makes you feel faster. Smoke and Mirrors. Age Matters little in reality. Doom & Doom likes are still fun, CoD is still fun and Halo is still fun!
The argument that Halo needs to evolve is so obviously bunk. Halo was at its absolute peak when it played in the most refined version of its classic gameplay, that being Halo 3. Every game since then has been more divisive due to, 'evolving' and reduced the community to ashes. And the ones who are left are STILL fighting over topics like these. Face it, people. Halo, 'evolving' is what led to the entire series dying.
I think your misrepresenting games like quake and portraying them as mindless mechanical skill. Quake has both a high mechanical and game sense skill celling, with map control. And the point about people still playing tf2 and comp tf2 is canceled out by the fact that everyone hates crits, and that in competive, all random elements are disabled. TF2 still fits the point as a popular casual game but crits don't factor into that as they even harm the casual experience. I feel like your misinterpreting both people and games that value mechanical skill and viewing it as inherently contradictory to gamesense, even though a game like quake or most fighting games have an incredibly high skill celling in both regards. The point that halo 5 sacrifices gamesense for mechanical skill might be true, but you're still acting as if they inherently contradict.
It's interesting that the problem is primarily multiplayer, I'm guessing a significant proportion of defenders prioritized single player. Explains the "lore" response. I only ever played SP, and I never had a problem with it in that context. But your video explains why it caused a lot of knock on problems in MP.
For some history, Bungie tested sprint in Halo 2 and ended up removing it. They tried again with armor abilities in Reach and it wasn't well received there either. Halo was always a console simplified arena shooter and that was when it was at its peak. Now we get derivative trend chasing slop.
Well it’s been a few months, still think the multiplayer doesn’t feel like halo. Hell sprint has taken a backseat for the new gadgets like the grapple hook. It’s been implemented absolutely perfectly. Not too fast that maps have to be adjusted but not too slow that it feels like I’m playing a game from 2001. Plus with no time delay between sprinting and firing it’s basically nestled right into the sandbox. Anyone at this point screaming about sprint either wasn’t invited to the flights or is just doing it to get views on RUclips. It’s finally been implemented almost perfectly.
I'm somewhat of a game dev and have been playing halo games for a lot of my life; I do see good reasons on both sides of this argument. I think sprinting could work in halo, I don't see myself as someone who wants it just because most "New" games have it or because it's a high demand mechanic. I see it as a good implementation if properly added to a game. For instance, Apex legends does a really good job of implementing sprint as like you said, the character is already sprinting, it just feels slower. However, in apex, using movement sensitivity, your able to slow the character down based on that. Apex also has landing penalty, Damage slows you down, and your able to use equipment whilst at max speed. Now I don't doubt that possibly one or more halo games have this. Like I said before, I'm on both sides. Currently I'm working on a game myself which I included a form of sprint. I ran into the exact problem that you said in this video and the previous one about this topic which includes small map design based around walking. Although it is true that it's not efficient building your small map design alongside a sprint mechanic, I found a workaround for the mechanic as a form of short bursts of speed. This type of sprint is also in the game "Phasmophobia" which shares small map design with a few of the maps. even in those small maps it was incredibly useful especially running from the ghost or in some cases, skill-based movement which relies on your ability to time the sprint burst. so even in halo, I could see the burst method to be a well-rounded mechanic as it doesn't pose a threat to smaller map designs, it gives you a slight amount of boost, it could add new forms of skill to the table, and it fits well with the character you play as based on the points that both sides have discussed and my own research into games and mechanics. both these solutions for "Sprinting" can add much to the game as I stated previously. So yes, I do agree with somewhat of what you're saying, but I also see the other side to have good points as well.
Adding sprint to halo was akin to gta removing car jacking, or cod removing sprint. You have an established, beloved, fully functionally consistent formula, and than completely change it. Makes perfect fucking sense huh. Halo went from tens of millions of players, to maybe 5000 since adding sprint, yet people are making arguments in favor of the mechanic as if its proven itself viable for halo. Bottom line- sprint isn't a part of halo, sprint didn't add anything to halo, sprint needs to get the fuck out of halo.
Then boi you better pucker up and put on that lipstick because sprint is going to use you like it’s own personal bitch from here on out. They are never going back to the old days of “brisk speedwalking”
@@unknownwill4th549 There's bigger issues w infinite. Much bigger issues. Pc performance is awful, hitboxes are too small for m&k to compete w aim assist/controller. Footstep and incoming damage audio is chalked. Literally doesn't work at all. The menus are convoluted and messy. The battlepass system is awful, as is the challenge system. There's no 0-50 ranking, no permanent service record system built into the game, no forge at launch, no campaign coop at launch, no xp system at launch.. I mean, these are important things if u want a game to a: draw in a massive player base, and b: keep em playing. Zero incentive to play once the initial (this is new) dopamine rush fades away. I have tons of friends that are signed up for the beta right now, and are still playing other games. This is a massive problem. Games prob gonna be doa as it stands right now. Especially if battlefield 2042 is any good. I'm worried.
@@Bytrl hella agree. In halo infinite, people were able to go into the custom games and it has a lot of options. Even if forge doesn't launch with the game, i hope we still get custom game browsers at launch
I find sprint was unecessary. Is another trend that appeared, and Bungie tested it with Reach. Yet it was a power up, not part of the base mechanics. By itself, Master Chief and all spartans should be fast, and honestly it brings nothing to gameplay, is something more 343 brought to imitate other fps'es, like always.
Hot Take: Halo 5 advanced movement is the best "4th pillar" in the Halo sandboxes. Better than equipment or armor abilities. Unlike those examples it respects and evolves how shooting grenades and melee all interact.
I personally really like being able to sprint, but I see that I enjoy the games that don’t have it more. Not that I hate Reach, 4 and 5. I love those games flaws and all. Sprint, in a modern Halo retrospective is needed. A lot of new players would look at the classic halo and wonder “how tf do i sprint?” especially since it’s a modern shooter, which most of them do have a sprint button But the classic games, no sprint had a really nice feel and identity. ODST especially. It feels like Halo, the gameplay is nice and people understand how it’s different from other games. The inclusion of sprint really makes you think of other games, and really changes the identity of the Mp
Halo reach did sprint right, limited time and recharge and the sprint to fire time takes a second, but in the older games their sandbox being built with no sprint is good, the maps are smaller, and are built for slower movement. And bigger maps had vehicles so it all worked, but in reach the maps were increased in size and built around faster movement. Whether halo has sprint or not, if it feels good around the ENTIRE sandbox, then honestly it doesnt really matter.
Overall sprint works really well with campaign (I’m imagining of not having it on halo reach legendary) But causes a lot of problems with the multiplayer sandbox
There are valid reasons for people to like sprint, but the majority of people I see advocating for it to stay are mindless drones using those same talking points
@@mfspectacular WE HAVE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT IT. Everyone hated armour lock back in the day and still hate it today. Its just that there is no argument there. We all agree. Armour lock was removed. Sprint is the controversial mechanic.
@@adenjones1802 i mentioned the jetpack (in reach & 4) & (5's) spartan abilities. Sprint doesnt got sht on those 2 in breaking combat & maps. You can literally fly around- to varying degrees in the 3 games lol, not just a quick jog. Armor lock is a meme more than anything, a hindrance compared to all the movement abilities. Dont get why you brought it up
@@mfspectacular Yes and we have talked about all of them. Sprint is the only one most people are willing to fight us back on because they are used to it from other games. Also I like how you say "no one talks about it" and then when people talk about it your like "Dont get why you brought it up."
@@adenjones1802 lies, the entire community focuses on sprint & ignores the ability to fly around- which has been in halo just as long. You bringing up armor lock & not adding onto or aruging (just ignoring) what i said with the jetpack/abilities only proves that Mfs wouldnt be so focused on sprint if bungie simply had its' speed be a variable, having it changable like jump height & all that. Gonna be interesting to see how people adapt the the grapple shot compared to the jetpack & abilities either way. Or that shield thing that reflects projectiles, as it was shown to give a bit of a boost like the hammer (imagine that in say, mint blitz' hands)
Main reason i dont care for it is cause i like going nuts with the hammer, especially against vehicles. Being able to literally fly around has been in halo just as long as sprint & screws w gameplay much more. Yet a majority of the community focused on the lesser of the 2 for a decade now lol
I played the Halos on the 360 and after a long time the Anniversary Edition on PC, and I'm playing Infinite currently. I never played the MP, I just don't like it, so I can't say how it affects it. I never considered Halo games as good shooters because of the non-standard Halo controls, and I've always seen the lack of sprint as a flaw. But Infinite is one of the best shooters I've ever played, after DOOM: Eternal. And I'm playing it like Eternal. High risk combat with the grapple hook, and running and climbing around meleeing the grunts, it's so satisfying.
I'm just watching this for the entertainment value because you're funny. I'm personally neutral to sprint. I don't care if it's in or out of the game. I played Halo 3 a shit ton, but also Reach and 5. If it's a fun game to me, it's a fun game. That's all that matters
I just replayed halo 4 yesterday for the first time in a long time. Man the writing does not hold up. There's a lot of potential that just squandered for a rush to try to prove themselves as being better the bungie. The point on movement though, I agree with the fact that sprint doesn't make sense. Especially in halo 4. You have no options out of it aside from melee which was significantly weakened from the previous games. Levels don't feel better with it. and levels with actual scale make better use of vehicles for movement then sprint does. That being said, things I did like regarding movement. I actually do enjoy both variants of the thrusters, the quick burst movement and the jet back. My biggest compliant since halo ce was elites (and brutes from halo 2) onward having an instant F your shot, F your grenade I'm out. Having something similar to a brief burst mobility for better positioning I like. And you the player even get all the same weakness they have when doing so. There was also Halo 2 the brutes being able to jet around the battle field yet somehow the unsc didn't have also have an answer for it with their best super soilders to hunt them down or have better escape options or positioning options for things like say sniping. Lore wise it bothered me. These things I did like, being limited to only sometimes having them is a pain, but it does make the places you can use them feel special for it. My other issue was the fact sprint had an internal cool down. Why? It literally made no sense and would constantly break any form of immersion to the point I just stopped bothering with sprint altogether, and utilize rapid weapon switching or fidgeting with whatever armor mod I had to break up the long unnecessary sprint sections. These guys are super soldiers with armor that in low handles literally all their needs. What do you mean sprinting tires him out? As people have said, If I want better movement options that's what vehicles are for, and typically even in halo 4 vehicles are mostly a plenty.
I love games with more mobility, but it's a bad fit for Halo. It works in Titanfall because the low-ttk, low-recoil sandbox is made for it. Mobility, whether as sprint, double jump, wall-running, or any other mechanic, is a defensive upgrade, so unless there is a matching attack upgrade, it will slow the game down and punish aggression. Sure, you move and expend other actions faster, but the kills are spread further apart. And if you only counteract mobility with damage, you create a situation where anyone who does not used the evasive tools as much as possible will be playing with a health nerf due to the damage hitting them just the same as the ninja types. I like sprint and other movement options in swat, because it gives some defensive options to counter the deliberately extreme damage, but it's certainly not worth the damage it does to the rest of the game balance. I think sprint sticks around purely to comfort bad players who don't want to feel punished with "wasted" time as the run back to the fight. They like the urgency of the animation because it mirrors their emotions.
I un respectfully disagree with most of your closing points Nothing disrespectful But there is a fundamental abundance of opportunities for miscommunications and understandings in this video that has caused me to lose respect for the presentation I have work but I might elaborate on my thoughts further as I DO LOVE the way things are organized
I was under the impression Halo 5 had such larger maps because it was the first Halo game developed specifically for 8th gen consoles and they wanted to flex their technical power on bigger map sizes that could support more active players, not because you can travel faster with sprint.
As a developer (not on halo though). I can assure you that we don't just build a massive map for no reason other than to flex. Every design decision has to carry weight. Everytime we move to implement something, it costs the project. We only have so much budget, there is a target we need to hit. The maps are larger because it is a necessity not a luxury.
the reason why being able to have different movement modes like walk vs sprint feels "right" in games is because even in a "fantasy shooter" as you call it a baseline of realism is expected. you are a humanoid figure in a familiar gravity based environment. these are basic on a different level than "bodily functions". its on the level of general physics. you assume it is supposed to be roughly 1g gravity unless stated otherwise. so your brain has expectations on how fast objects fall, how a jump of a certain speed will follow a parabolic arc. if this doesnt match up your "fantasy" needs to give you reasons why or your head will constantly be torn between what it expects to happen and what happens on screen. there is perceived movement speed due to your brain innately referencing the terrain moving past you based on real world experience. you know what it "feels" like to run and if the game gives you the impression that you are moving slower than you should based on jump trajectories and the assumption that the spartan should be at least as fast as a regular human if not faster. take crouching for example: by your argument you could balance your game around not being able to crouch, but still have passages that you can shoot through if aligned standing from the right position and look big enough that you could fit through IF ONLY you could crouch. or half height cover that that does serve the purpose of blocking an angle into a flight of stairs but also could grant you cover from other angles IF ONLY you could crouch. the game will feel constantly feel like it is missing something because it is depriving the player of a seemingly possible action. you can only avoid this feeling by sufficiently depriving your brain from familiar concepts like by putting you into a spaceship in space with close to no environmental reference points for speed.
You are putting too much thought into it. A big argument I see here is why is that realism os needed in Halo other than feeling real. Does it make the game more fun? Does it add to the gameplay in a positive way? Sure it's realistic but I've been shot in real life and it hurt like hell after the shock wore off. Realism isn't always fun is what I'm trying to say. Your analogy about sprinting and the feeling of it but look at my being shot. Just because my character in the game is being shot doesn't mean me not feeling that detracts from the experience. The same can be said for having a variable sprint mechanic. Sprint made maps larger. Halo has a long time to kill, sprint allows players to run from a fight rather than going toe to toe in a dance of death. As a party game, which halo is, being forced to flight was all part of the fun of it. Now, as the maps are larger, play styles have dramatically changed from core halo experiences. Sprint damaged halo as a brand so I understand their argument. I understand yours too but the other side of this is at least explaining why it makes the game unfun and they have many valid points. All I see for support of sprint is that it's realistic. Halo 3 carried high player activity for years, Reach carried for a while but not like 3. Ever since 4, the player base has vanished. Millions show up to buy the new releases praying for a Halo game. Then after they see it's not halo they move on. This did not happen with 1 - 3 and they did not have variable sprint. They did have sprint though, that was the max move speed of your character.
@@adenjones1802 What about it? The only thing that would rally need to be increased is Covenant projectile speed to account for increased player speed. Tho I personally wouldn't change much from Halo 3's perfected formula. Maybe keep armor abilities, but limit them to active use(like the plasma deflect) and avoid movement based ones. Halo would actually stand a chance if it just stayed close to it's casual and chill roots instead of trying to be it's competitors.
I think that it would be easier to balance sprint if halo had ADS (not saying Halo SHOULD have ADS), it would give the devs more tools to balance how useful/powerful sprint is in games
Join the Discord: discord.gg/VkxuQ6axFA
You sound like the guy who would hate The Last Jedi
my own opinion and why sprint is actually a good thing.
>can escape ambushes and outnumbered by the enemy
>it makes you THINK when to use sprint and if you used it incorrectly that is your fault when you get killed
@@cesruhf2605thats so true
Old time halo player here, the first time I played halo was after the Armistice was signed on November 11 1918. The first thing I did after I returned from deployment was pop halo 3 in on the Xbox 360
Very interesting name and comment there
Cool story bro
@@Greg-gf5jc In my heart I believe that their full username is Big Boss.
Saying that sprint should be in gameplay because Spartans can obviously sprint is like saying that there should be a toilet mechanic in halo because Spartans have to poop too
But do they?
Its a game...but you can also say why would he not be able to run at his own speed in his own suit, why does it have to be picked up?
@@chriskatz2355 Because the suit is over 1000 pounds, because sprint as a base mechanic permanently affects map design, because being able to move at top speed and shoot at the same time is better then that being separated, because every weapon in the sandbox has to become too op and kill time lowers, because camping is annoying, I could go on.
@@adenjones1802 For the last time; something cannot make the game less competetive if EVERY player has the ability. You can sprint too, in case you didn't realise that, and when others are sprinting they are more vulnerable. What you mean is you've developed a play style that relies on people being unable to move quickly, and now you're struggling to adapt to the improved game mechanics of the new titles. Well, dittums
@@buenolar1214 Wait, you mean I can sprint too? HOLY SHIT I HAD NO IDEA. YOU HAVE BLOWN MY MIND. I always though the game was programmed so that my specific copy came without sprint. My bad, that fixes everything I mentioned about weapons having lower time to kill, how camping is incentivised, map stretching etc.
"something cannot make the game less competitive if EVERY player has the ability."
Let me ask you then, if every player always spawned with a sniper every match, would that be a competitive game? Yes. Would that be a fun game? No. I don't know why you brought it up. I never said being more or less competitive was a good thing you just projected that onto me. What you really mean is that you have developed a play style that relies on the game playing like Call of Duty or any other generic shooter, and now you're struggling to adapt to the improved game mechanics of the older titles. Well, dittums.
All the Halo fans advocating for sprint need to realise you can’t run away from your problems forever
You also can't stay behind and fight forever.
@@kass_3110 I respect the attempt but that wasn't nearly as funny
exaclty, we can run towards them, beat them up, and maybe run over them as well just to make sure
@@Lanay_ I mean he stated that in the video saying in halo 3 you get cornered by grenades because you cant run away from or dodge them like halo 5. The clip in the vid of the perfect kill afterwards sums it up.
@@kass_3110 without sprint, you can run and fight
The "halo must evolve" reason I disagree like you said. It doesn't make you a "boomer" to enjoy something that doesn't have newer features
Even some people who where introduced to the series by Halo 5. After Playing all the older games. Feel like Halos original gameplay is more fun.
Hell im one of those Schmucks!
The funny thing about "story being in service to the gameplay" is that you can use story and lore to explain certain gameplay elements. Things like Spartans being able run and shoot accurately at the same time like they've done throughout the original trilogy. Tanks have had turret stabilization for over 50 years now, it's 100% likely that 500 years in the future we'll be able to implement that functionality into a suit of armor for infantry.
I don't think you get it bro. Realism > Quality of gameplay
Duh
Battlefield 5 followed that too closely with the tanks
Veteran Halo player here, been playing CE since the age of 3. Because of this my opinion is above all others and my veterancy status has the last say. If you disagree with my objective facts then you are a noob and not a true Halo fan. I represent all Halo veterans, even those who think I am wrong. They simply don't know what they want. I hereby declare that sprint is
So true lmao
We may not know what his opinion would've been, but we can be sure that it would've been correct, and that's what matters.
@@Squeaky245 OP got shot by a jackal sniper before he could finish
Gay?
@@IanThatMetalBassist That had me dying.
Sprint is in Call of Duty 4 because it is a tactical shooter. You see the same thing appearing in other more tactically oriented games like Battlefield 2, or Rainbow Six prior to CoD4. By having sprint, ADS, and movement bloom you create an environment where you trade off movement speed for accuracy. Standing still and aiming gives you maximum accuracy and damage, sprinting completely strips you of the ability to shoot but let's you move fast. Moving normally limits your accuracy but still lets you shoot, for example for prefiring around a corner. Together with a fast ttk, it creates an environment where sprinting from cover to cover and taking up a good firing position ahead of time is rewarded, while mindlessly running around is punished. It makes the game about static, tactical positioning. The first level in CoD4 has a skillgate (e.g. you have to crouch under this thing to progress to prove you can crouch) where you must take cover behind some sandbags while some enemies run by and shoot them in the back. All the multiplayer maps are designed around sightlines, static power positions, and open areas. It takes the principles of a realistic, tactical shooter, simplifies it, and then turns all the dials up to 11. It's not Tom Clancy's, but Michael Bay's Rainbow Six.
Meanwhile Halo, and other classic shooters like Doom, are all about dynamic movement and evasion, running and gunning like an action hero, rather than tactical positioning. It doesn't make sense for that gameplay to slow you down to aim, or take away your weapons to move.
Shower
Well said. I just got done beating the CoD 4 campaign on Hardened difficulty and I definitely played the game like you described.
Sprint worked in COD because it was very fast paced. Sacrificing the ability to aim for extra speed was worth it, especially with the slow walk speed. You can't walk through enemy fire, but you can sprint through it. Most guns were also pretty inaccurate without ADS and would only reliably hit stuff right in front of you. ADS makes your gun laser accurate, so that makes it worthwhile. You kind of had to do it in COD and COD also had very sticky aim assist, so ADS would also usually snap you right onto target. All of this makes ADS an important part of gameplay.
Meanwhile, Halo just wasn't originally designed for ADS in its gameplay. Could it adapt? Sure... But why fix what isn't broken? There was nothing wrong with there not being sprint. Just make the default speed faster if people and their crap attention spans are whining so much. I'd prefer that.
I like how 343's take to all this is just slow sprint
judging by the infinite gameplay demo to make it completely useless in anything beyond traversal
because halo doesn't have vehicles or anything to travel around the open world faster than base movement speed.
Not really, sprint is about the same as in 5
@@JBzucc not at all, it literally is slower.
@@JBzucc yeah sry ur wrong, it should indeed be faster.
Actually no, your moving about the same speed the bigger difference is the base speed is faster so it doesn't seem like as big as boost, which balances out the mechanic, it still functions pretty much the exact same way as 5, which is what I meant, it still serves the same purpose for being a catalyst for slide and crossing long gaps, not that it was faster, I was pointing out that OP made out like sprint in 5 devalidated vehichles which I don't agree with, I think there's different variables that contributed into making people think that way
@@JBzucc indeed. It’s still balanced now and I’d rather have sprint anyway just for the placebo effect of feeling like I’m moving faster than walking.
Kids, you don't have to sprint if you're always running.
Very true
Then why not run faster?
I hate when people say "oh Halo needs to evolve." Well, obviously it does but there are thousands of other ways to do this and have it still feel like Halo. Just look at the innovations in the original trilogy: New weapons, new vehicles, vehicle boarding, turrets, detachable turrets, equipment, duel wielding, online multiplayer, character customization, new game modes, forge, firefight, custom games, theater, new enemy types, new enemy interactions, etc etc etc.
Ok name something that can be added besides sprint that doest already exist, such as new weapons and a new coat of paint like they did with CE and H2
@@SacredWo1f04 read my comment again. A lot of those things I listed were introduced in Halo 2. Besides, it's not like Halo Infinite is having any problems coming up with new sandbox items and interactions.
My point is that there is much els to add that isnt repeated overe and over again
i know how to solve the issue
just make it so that you are always sprinting and do every you normally can when not sprinting.
oh wait that's every halo before reach.
momentum changes the pace of the game
Doom is so slow bro!
clearly yt see the sprint augment as a topic all must see.
the dumbest argument for sprint is that supersoldiers should sprint. bruh the default walk in halo has been perfect from 1 to odst. the only reason it feels slow is because of the tight fov
I agree with everything in this video. I always get annoyed when sprint fans say "ThE gAmE HaS To InNoVaTe." Its not even an innovation.
At this point the lack of sprint would be an innovation. You can tell someone has no idea what they're talking about when they think innovation is just adding more features, even if those features have already been done in other games. To be innovative is to come up with something new in a positive way, not just copying shit from other games regardless whether or not it works in your own. Copying Titanfall wasn't innovative. So yeah that argument is getting old. Finally Infinite seems to have actual innovative features, including a modified sprint that doesn't destroy the pacing of the game but still allows for other forms of mobility.
The majority of FPS games on the market feature sprint.
It is a must have for the genre.
So cry all you want, it’s staying for the long haul.
Since this comment was made 5 months ago you probably have seen/played halo infinite with its updated sprint system. THAT is the way to make sprint. They don’t need to stretch the maps out because the speed is only slightly faster than your average speedwalking Spartan. It makes it a feature that me and many others with enjoy having. But not make it necessary for you to use.
@@PeterMuskrat6968 "It is a must have for the genre."
laughs in doom eternal and cs:go
in·no·va·tion
/ˌinəˈvāSH(ə)n/
noun
the action or process of innovating.
"innovation is crucial to the continuing success of any organization"
Similar:
change
alteration
revolution
upheaval
transformation
metamorphosis
reorganization
restructuring
rearrangement
recasting
remodeling
renovation
restyling
variation
new measures
new methods
new devices
novelty
newness
unconventionality
modernization
modernism
a break with tradition
a shift of emphasis
a departure
a change of direction
a shake up
a shakedown
transmogrification
a new method, idea, product, etc.
plural noun: innovations
"technological innovations designed to save energy"
@@SacredWo1f04 And your point is?
Game design shouldn't and indeed truly can't be dictated on the basis of 'reality'. Games aren't real and attempts to render them realistic would severely curtail their freedom of design. Game design shouldn't be about trying to recreate reality; it should be about whatever serves good *gameplay*. Arguing otherwise is short-sighted to say the least.
I was a sprinter in highschool and I HATE sprint in Halo
Defending the use of sprint because of cutscenes and the fact they’re super soldiers was and always has been a flawed argument. This can be used on any game, even outside FPS. The lack of sprint is due to the design around the flow of the maps, it’s never been that deep. Why can’t link in the old games sprint? Why can’t any of the Team Fortress or Overwatch characters run? Good grief
also in tf2 and classic halo, they are canonically running, the only difference is there is no animation for it.
I do find it funny when people say the original Doom games had separate running and walking speeds. Are these people not playing Doom without run enabled all the time? Sure, there's that dumb level where you have to tiptoe over narrow ledges so of course you will slow down but usually you're set as run by default.
Facts, idk a single classic doom player that doesn't have autorun enabled
I guess I'm part of an extreme minority. I don't necessarily find the effects of Sprint on gameplay to be appealing, but as someone who loves to just go into theater and screw around, get cool screenshots and clips, that added variation of character animation for some angles is very valuable to me, and it's something that I think works well for those who'd rather make machinimas than play multiplayer on 'normal' circumstances. I want Sprint around for the more creative prospects it can bring to the table, rather than it's detriments to gameplay by being fundamentally integrated.
If you asked me, I'd keep Sprint, but only in custom games. Let the multiplayer be as refined as it can be, but let those previously existing mechanics like Sprint, AAs, even Advanced Mobility all exist in a custom games environment. The potential for expansion with this is unfathomable.
A toggle o/ off setting would be nice
@@SacredWo1f04 that exists
@@jackpark2736 does it exist in infinite?
@@jackpark2736 i know it does in 5
@@SacredWo1f04 it does exist in infinite, it was also in reach. Not sure about 4 though
A simple solution for halos movement issue:
Single digit percent autorun when not firing for a few seconds moving forward, with a zero recovery frame weapons sway.
Looks like sprint, feels like it, has the big map or uncontested map traversal benefit. Does not affect scaling significantly and is not effective in gunfights.
A small base movement speed increase would also be nice.
Succesfull crouch jumps could have a zero recovery frame weapon bob animation to simulate clamber and indicate succesful jumps. The Crouch jump height increase could be bigger.
Thrusters could return in a toned down fashion. An extra dodge function that has to be timed has utility in halo.
I think a lot of the debate around ADS in Halo stems from the fact that the fanbase is divided. To oversimplify, there are the fans who know what an "arena shooter" is and the fans who grew up in the "COD era" of gaming.
The COD era fans just grew up expecting ADS. The people who understand Halo is supposed to be an arena shooter are probably the ones hating on ADS. It's very much a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" feeling for us.
In multiplayer their arguments don’t make sense a super soldier would be cautious against another super soldier.
It's not about removing running, it's about making only one speed, a run speed. Not a sprint but a run, again for balance.
The sprint folks have only one good point. The movement speed in halo 3, reach, and 4, are all too slow. I would like about 120% of halo 3 movement speed.
It's because almost 60% of the video is spent avoiding any valid point and using people's opinion pieces to make the one point he did tackle seem more illegitimate
@@JBzucc This is hardly the only sprint video on the internet but ok. What point would you like to be made on behalf of the pro sprint side? What arguments do you believe were left out?
@@adenjones1802 well I'm sure you wouldn't need me to explain it when there are videos covering it, an over simplification of what annoys me in these videos is a lot of these facts are misconceptions or emotionally charged opinion pieces holding a biased towards the anti sprint side, cause yeah you look at the comparison between the two clips that everyone uses in every anti sprint video but that's like the surface level example of how sprint works, with sprint and slide, it adds another layer, having clamber it adds another, the excuses people use are most of the time people claiming the mechanics are bad with only have a basic understanding of how they function within the sandbox
I know I didn't give an actual example but I'm sure other people who know more about how these mechanics work would do a better job like Shyway, but if you insist I will elaborate with more detailed issues, I just didn't want to write a novel
@@JBzucc Honestly, go for the novel. I'm here for it. I have seen skyways videos and he doesn't address what would be the biggest issues in my opinion and that would be that the weapon damage has to increase and projectile weapons get thrown out. For example, if the brute shot doesn't come back in Halo infinite, we know why.
@@adenjones1802 Hmm that's interesting cause I think projectiles can still work, I think what made it worse was having thrust which I'm personally glad is not gonna be in infinite, with projectile weapons I can still see that working, i think the issue is the accuracy, if they keep the brute shot the same as halo 3 which if it does return I'm sure it will be balanced within the sandbox, the issue isn't the movement so much but I think the weapons as well, something like what they did with the H5 AR is probably needed which is adding a crit head shot multiplayer, giving it viability within the new meta, I'm distressing quite a bit but you get my point, I think it could work and agree I am worried they might not be able to pull it off but I don't think it's solely the movement that has made them last viable, ever since 3 the brute shot has never really been something I've seen anyone really use in MP, you could possible add a mechanic like a bleed or playthrough that damages through shields but is fairly inaccurate when your getting to mid and long range, not sure if that would be totally balanced but it could work to compensate for it being projectile based weapon
Common misconception I noticed: Halo 3 has the same move speed as Halo 2, which has the same forward move speed as CE (though iirc slower acceleration and a lower jump)
Sprint is the bane of my existence.
@User 905 Apples to oranges
That shyway video is so fucking stupid. He just proves that 343 have taken the basic ability of moving and perfoming combat and turned it into a convoluted button combo mess. And on top of that, most of the advanced mobility and combat combos that he shows off only work when moving in the direction you're facing. Watch some Halo 3 MLG and you'll see players crouch jumping and navigating the map while aiming away from the maps geometry. They've developed the skill of memorizing jumps and the maps' layout so they can get from point A to B while moving backwards. You cant do that in Halo 5 because you need to be facing a ledge to clamber it. Not to mention how this advanced mobility trash murders the sandbox by nerfing vehicles and removes certain weapons utility factor, pro sprinters never seem to address 90% of the issues.
I think Halo Reach did sprint the best to balance both the pros and cons of with sprint and without sprint. My reasons are simple, 1. It was an optional ability to pick up, 2. It had to recharge, which means that it isn't unlimited like in the later 343 games and 3. You can't shoot when running and takes a second or two just to place your weapon to shoot. Let's also not forget that strategy wise, the player has to choose between say a bubble shield or sprint, the player can have one ability to carry and would need to think about the pros and cons of using one over the other. Of course because the developers that made sprint balanced, it didn't satisfy either side of the topic of sprint in Halo or video games.
[Game] veteran here, this objectively bad game or mechanic is actually good or the best in the series!
*check their account or learn that they're 15 and we're like -10 when the originals came out*
Every single time
Yeah halo 3 was 17 years ago. The people talking online about this stuff are kids who just don’t even know what they’re talking about because the never actually played the old games in their prime
Idea: How about if you go forwards for long enough, you gradually go from base speed to something like 1.5x speed over the course of 10 or 15 seconds or so. To balance it, make the timer reset when you take damage and you don't strafe fast. No putting your gun down to run and no bitching out of gunfights.
"If it's not fun, why bother?"-Nintendo Guy
In the original trilogy, you could sprint... yet you were holding your gun up like a badass the whole time :)
“Bad aim? Drive”
Can’t play 8v8 because it takes too long to find a game? Get screwed.
Halo newbie here, only been playing since the PC MCC launch- I'm indifferent to sprint mostly, but I will admit it definitely changed the vibe of Halo and if I were making a game I'd probably just use whatever input that would normally be used for sprint on something else. Like sprint in Halo won't ruin Halo for me, but to me it's like ADS- it's a tactical thing, you're exchanging one thing for another. In this case, it's swapping your offensive options for added mobility, making you prioritize whether or not you should run or fight. And I don't mind having to make that decision in Halo, but at the same time in my mind Spartans shouldn't have to choose between mobility and offense exactly *because* they're Spartans and should be easily able to do both.
I’m not subscribed and only watched that one video that blew up, but still this got recommended to me. So theirs a chance the same thing is gonna happen lol
powerful
Would have been better if The sprint mechanic allows you to still fire your weapons and reload while running
i actually hate when i throw a nade and people run past it as if its not a ticking time bomb.
ShreddedNerd with his car example not connecting to lore*
Me as a car person this is funny. Having a MK4 Supra fully tuned in a Forza game freely driving around isn't realistic at all, the Supra or any fully tuned car in general like a drift tuned FC RX7 or rally tuned Subaru, no matter what the care it would take a shit if Forza or need for speed was connected to "lore". The lore argument for sprint in Halo is just a stuiped defense for it.
Sprint is from the devil. The devil wants our maps to suck and our guns to be boring
The power of Christ compels sprint to fuck off.
Real quick, just as a formality: Shreddednerd dislikes halo-related fat jokes because he requires a mobility scooter to get to his fridge. Proceed...
we could just have a movement speed like doom 2016 but then every weapon would have to be hitscan.
Exactly what i was thinking, doom is the perfect example of retaining the core gameplay of their older games and reincarnating it into the new ones, even doom eternals artsyle isnt different from the older dooms from like 30 years ago
@@ca9inec0mic58 idk about that last part, half of the floor textures werent blue carpet
Halo is not fast paced like doom though
@@justablindman1443 exactly why sprint doesnt work
At risk of sounding idiotic, I think that Halo is in a way the thinking mans FPS.
Most others are basically hide and seek where the victor in a 1 on 1 encounter is whoever shoots first.
The slower pace and higher time to kill in halo helps you take advantage of its huge sandbox and options in different types of situations including those in which you are not the first to shoot or spot an enemy.
A high IQ player can even dominate against mutiple better equipped players.
There aren't many modern shooters with the same style of gameplay.
Thank you for your valuable words. Still begging for no sprint since 2010.
Okay, to answer the question of "why do you like sprint?", because character go fast and dopamine rushes. Might just be adhd, but I like being able to rush from point A to point B, and I don't get that feeling when just pushing a joystick forwards. Feels like my only option to accelerate further is rocket jumping with a brute shot or something.
Ok that’s not good bud. I’m sorry when the only real defense for a mechanic is that it creates the same chemical reactions as a drug, that’s a problem
@@kingorange7739 It's the happy drug that your body naturally produces when having fun, not cocaine. Isn't that kinda the point of games?
@@zeyode no not really. Games are meant to be within fulfillment. Not replicate the chemical responses of drugs and gambling bud. Otherwise by that logic, lootboxes were good
@@fkdaybreak3626 it’s also down to how affects the design of the game
@@fkdaybreak3626 which is fine. It’s perfectly fine to enjoy Halo 5 in its own merits, but you would be lying to ur self if u said it provided the same kind of experience the trilogy was known for. It’s a different food all together. And that is where the problem lies
You should seriously have a 1v1 debate with shyway in a RUclips video together.
i always thought that the fastest walking speed in the original trilogy was the spartans "sprint"
My take on sprinting is that it makes me feel more powerful in game. It's true that base movement speed is faster in older titles and on paper it is awesome. Being able to move at top speed and shoot no matter what direction you are running is great objectively but in game it doesn't feel as strong. I feel powerful in Halo when I sprint as fast as an olympian and soar through the air to land some fat melee attacks. Makes me feel like Master Chief in that Halo 3 trailer way back in the day. Probably for this reason, I favor Reach and H4 more than the other games.
I really appreciate your perspective, especially the consideration of the mechanics and effects on gameplay overall. You're absolutely right that sprint needs to be balanced for multiplayer gameplay.
In response to anyone who says that Halo Reach, 4, and 5 don't feel like Halo games I would say that each game is just a different pair of glasses to experience the Halo universe with. That is why we have books and movies too. There is something for everyone to enjoy. Stick to the ones you like and hope for new content that fits your style.
exactly. i spartan charge the nerds who can't sprint away
With sprint, I can move faster than someone who shoots. I am able to avoid enemy bullets/projectiles with an ease.
In the old games, if someone started shooting me, I was always in a disadvantage and had to hope that my teammates would make the 1v1 an 1v2 in our favour.
In the old games, stacking was too effective, and as a result you could be a wanker that sticks to your teammates and have an unfair advantage for that.
I hate how you can’t win an 1v4 in old halo (unless you have a proper weapon).
In the old games, if someone disconnected, you would be in a numerical disadvantage and defeat was 99% certain. Why even try then?
Also, I never played Halo 5 but I can definitely see why clamber was added. Many people claim it is unnecessary by using Valve games as examples. However, Valve games has a much lower mid-air time and air strafing. As someone who grew up with Valve games, I feel like a sack of potatoes every time I jump in Halo. A new player will inevitably bump in the platform he wanted to jump on, which show how inaccessible classic Halo is.
Edit: on a side note, this video did a terrible job at explaining why people loved sprint, it only shows why people claim to do so, but there is a significant difference that shows how underrated sprint is in Halo.
You absolutely can win a 1v4 in the old games. thats one of the many things that makes the old games great. Having the "proper weapon is kind of the point of a *SANDBOX* driven game. How exactly would adding sprint fix a numbers advantage lol?
Also it is the pro sprint fans that never listen to our arguments. This video had pictures of comments from people making these arguments so unless he photoshopped them..... He listened. If you have any other arguments let me know but could you also do us the courtesy of addressing our arguments. Because thats literally never been done. Ever..... like not even once. I'm literally scouring the internet to find a sprint fan that actually addresses our points and has an argument against them. Other than like maybe shyway but he just explains why sprint synergises well with other mechanics like thrust etc. Not why it on its own makes for good halo gameplay.
Considering you tried to say the video did a bad job explaining why people love it, you did too. You can win a 1v4 with no issues if you're good enough. You don't have to be a Halo master to do that either.
You were trash rank 30 garbage player if you couldnt win a 1v4 in old Halo
15:32 quake and unreal tournament place a premium on ALL skills. map control, aim, reaction time, shit talking, movement, and prediction of other players movement are all huge parts of those games. you also had to master 4 different aiming styles (flicking projectile hitscan and tracking projectile and hitscan)
I PERSONALLY am indifferent to sprint, it has its ups and downs. I think either a faster base speed in Infinite or sprint is necessary for an open world map because you might find yourself without a vehicle sometimes. In 3,2 or CE no its simply not necessary. I’d much prefer the just faster movement speed over sprint but it depends on the game. But it can be UNNECESSARY or Bad: cough : Halo5: cough cough.
Nice, a video blows up so you’re open to the glue-eaters that are the average RUclips commenters
I'm fine with Sprint in the context of Reach's equipment system, as it's an easily-communicated function that has real utility, but because it can be traded out, the levels can't be built with it specifically in mind, encouraging more of that combat-sandbox feel.
Exactly. So many people blame reach for adding sprint. But due to halo reaches level design and equipment system, picking sprint usually left you at a disadvantage. Jetpack gave you way more mobility options. Love or hate armor lock, it offered much more utility than sprint. Only noobs and bad player terminally used sprint. It simply wasn’t that good… expect for when you had an energy sword then it was op lol
Really enjoy the points you make in your video. I've been arguing the sprint mechanic for years now. Halo waypoint is the worst place to go lol. Its full of those who defend 343i and their arguments are trash to say the very least.
Yeah the people hanging on to Halo Waypoint are always the most fervent defenders of 343. Ironically its those same people who freak out the most whenever 343 inevitably fucks up.
Personally, in an arena game, I prefer smaller, tighter maps with slower movement speed. In Halo, I like BTB because the vehicles make up for the difference.
Not a fan of sprint as a mechanic personally because it requires much larger maps to accommodate, debases the role of vehicles, and it makes movement too forgiving. For instance of the last point, I find that in Halo 3 if one finds themselves caught out-in-the-open you might be doomed without a lucky plasma grenade because you cannot simply sprint to cover.
Also, isn't sprint sort of a skinner box? It seems that whenever sprint is included it just becomes a button that one mash whenever they move. It's just sort of pointless imo unless you're dealing with some sort of high one-shot-to-kill military simulator game where the half second of weapon readying might be the difference between life and death.
Before I watch this, I think it's pretty funny to have a video on why Halo players love sprint despite a lot of hatred for it. Personally, I love it. It makes Spartans feel more like the books. I'll shut up and watch then add an edit when I'm done.
Veteran here :p
Truth is halo isn't halo anymore. It's evolved too much. Started turning with reach and hasn't looked back. In Halo 1 through 3... Move your thumbstick all the way forward, you are now sprinting. I will defend this statement. Those who want a specific type of shooter, there are games for you. High frag respawn sim - COD, tactical shooters Swat or arguably R6 Seige, Party Shooter - Halo, Esports shooter - Counter Strike, Battle Royal - Fort Night or Pubg, MOBA like - R6 Siege or Overeatch.
You want to make a MOBA make a MOBA, you want to make a tactical shooter then make one. But don't make a tactical shooter and then as an example throw halo on it. This is just dumb design and it's why many of these ventures are bleeding revenue. They listen to a minor majority of players saying they want halo to be fast paced and eSports like. This alienates millions of dollars and millions of potential players and then runs a once popular franchise into the ground.
Halo isn't cod and shouldn't be. COD isn't halo and shouldn't be. If devs want to make a halo game, they should make a halo game, like it was originally intended, just like any other property. If you want to make a halo game that is like COD with all the craziness, make a new title established in the Halo universe but do not make it Halo.
Halo is dieing because it's changed too much, that's just a fact.
I can understand some people want that fast paced experience and that's cool but everyone can agree it's not original halo design. These new halo games should have been named something different because they aren't halo and that is once again just fact
Everyone out there who enjoys them then that is awesome but I know the entire of Xbox group I played with hasn't boughten a copy since 4. Just my group alone has over 40 people in it. That's a decent chunk of change to throw away chasing trends that a minor faction of the halo base wants devs to implement.
Fun fact: Halo 2 was supposed to have sprint, and leftovers of it still exist in the MCC
Wow
My favorite part of this is that there's a video of a someone getting it working, but in place of a proper animation the Spartan just keeps flipping two birds.
It wasn't "supposed to have sprint". They tried it, decided it didn't work and scrapped it.
Sprint rewards bad plays, constricts gun time, and disrupts the flow of the maps. Halo should've kept its unique identity instead of copying fps trends.
Ironically enough sprint nowadays sprint seems to be more of an outdated gamedesign trope than reloading... CoD is nearly as old as Halo. Sprint is nothing new. And to call it modern gamedesign while saying Halo is outdated game design. Is a special kind of arrogance. (Halo CE, 2001) (CoD: United Offensive, 2004)
Even worse Infinite proved that sprint does not need to serve an gameplay purpose for people to be happy. It's an animation that makes you feel faster. Smoke and Mirrors.
Age Matters little in reality. Doom & Doom likes are still fun, CoD is still fun and Halo is still fun!
The argument that Halo needs to evolve is so obviously bunk. Halo was at its absolute peak when it played in the most refined version of its classic gameplay, that being Halo 3. Every game since then has been more divisive due to, 'evolving' and reduced the community to ashes. And the ones who are left are STILL fighting over topics like these. Face it, people. Halo, 'evolving' is what led to the entire series dying.
I personally don't mind sprint. It's not a deal breaker for me, but sprint did hurt the franchise.
I mean I don't mind sprint but I always find the games without sprint more fun
This is the best video regarding sprint in Halo.
And it's got less views than both of my other ones.
Making sense and realistic are two very different things
I think your misrepresenting games like quake and portraying them as mindless mechanical skill. Quake has both a high mechanical and game sense skill celling, with map control. And the point about people still playing tf2 and comp tf2 is canceled out by the fact that everyone hates crits, and that in competive, all random elements are disabled. TF2 still fits the point as a popular casual game but crits don't factor into that as they even harm the casual experience. I feel like your misinterpreting both people and games that value mechanical skill and viewing it as inherently contradictory to gamesense, even though a game like quake or most fighting games have an incredibly high skill celling in both regards. The point that halo 5 sacrifices gamesense for mechanical skill might be true, but you're still acting as if they inherently contradict.
What about the hecking movies television shows books and comicarinos
It's interesting that the problem is primarily multiplayer, I'm guessing a significant proportion of defenders prioritized single player. Explains the "lore" response. I only ever played SP, and I never had a problem with it in that context. But your video explains why it caused a lot of knock on problems in MP.
For some history, Bungie tested sprint in Halo 2 and ended up removing it. They tried again with armor abilities in Reach and it wasn't well received there either. Halo was always a console simplified arena shooter and that was when it was at its peak. Now we get derivative trend chasing slop.
I seriously doubt halo infinite multiplayer will feel like halo. sprint and clamber are too game changing.
Nah because maps halo 5 where also built to use clamber and no clamber
@@justablindman1443 Are you suggesting that the halo 6 devs should not balance the maps to account for sprint and clamber?
Well it’s been a few months, still think the multiplayer doesn’t feel like halo.
Hell sprint has taken a backseat for the new gadgets like the grapple hook. It’s been implemented absolutely perfectly. Not too fast that maps have to be adjusted but not too slow that it feels like I’m playing a game from 2001.
Plus with no time delay between sprinting and firing it’s basically nestled right into the sandbox. Anyone at this point screaming about sprint either wasn’t invited to the flights or is just doing it to get views on RUclips. It’s finally been implemented almost perfectly.
I'm somewhat of a game dev and have been playing halo games for a lot of my life; I do see good reasons on both sides of this argument. I think sprinting could work in halo, I don't see myself as someone who wants it just because most "New" games have it or because it's a high demand mechanic. I see it as a good implementation if properly added to a game. For instance, Apex legends does a really good job of implementing sprint as like you said, the character is already sprinting, it just feels slower. However, in apex, using movement sensitivity, your able to slow the character down based on that. Apex also has landing penalty, Damage slows you down, and your able to use equipment whilst at max speed. Now I don't doubt that possibly one or more halo games have this. Like I said before, I'm on both sides. Currently I'm working on a game myself which I included a form of sprint. I ran into the exact problem that you said in this video and the previous one about this topic which includes small map design based around walking. Although it is true that it's not efficient building your small map design alongside a sprint mechanic, I found a workaround for the mechanic as a form of short bursts of speed. This type of sprint is also in the game "Phasmophobia" which shares small map design with a few of the maps. even in those small maps it was incredibly useful especially running from the ghost or in some cases, skill-based movement which relies on your ability to time the sprint burst. so even in halo, I could see the burst method to be a well-rounded mechanic as it doesn't pose a threat to smaller map designs, it gives you a slight amount of boost, it could add new forms of skill to the table, and it fits well with the character you play as based on the points that both sides have discussed and my own research into games and mechanics. both these solutions for "Sprinting" can add much to the game as I stated previously. So yes, I do agree with somewhat of what you're saying, but I also see the other side to have good points as well.
Adding sprint to halo was akin to gta removing car jacking, or cod removing sprint. You have an established, beloved, fully functionally consistent formula, and than completely change it. Makes perfect fucking sense huh. Halo went from tens of millions of players, to maybe 5000 since adding sprint, yet people are making arguments in favor of the mechanic as if its proven itself viable for halo. Bottom line- sprint isn't a part of halo, sprint didn't add anything to halo, sprint needs to get the fuck out of halo.
What do you think about sprint in infinite?
Then boi you better pucker up and put on that lipstick because sprint is going to use you like it’s own personal bitch from here on out. They are never going back to the old days of “brisk speedwalking”
@@unknownwill4th549 There's bigger issues w infinite. Much bigger issues. Pc performance is awful, hitboxes are too small for m&k to compete w aim assist/controller. Footstep and incoming damage audio is chalked. Literally doesn't work at all. The menus are convoluted and messy. The battlepass system is awful, as is the challenge system. There's no 0-50 ranking, no permanent service record system built into the game, no forge at launch, no campaign coop at launch, no xp system at launch.. I mean, these are important things if u want a game to a: draw in a massive player base, and b: keep em playing. Zero incentive to play once the initial (this is new) dopamine rush fades away. I have tons of friends that are signed up for the beta right now, and are still playing other games. This is a massive problem. Games prob gonna be doa as it stands right now. Especially if battlefield 2042 is any good. I'm worried.
@@Bytrl hella agree. In halo infinite, people were able to go into the custom games and it has a lot of options. Even if forge doesn't launch with the game, i hope we still get custom game browsers at launch
change in speed gives you a feel of acceleration
You only need to add momentum to characters to get a similar effect.
I find sprint was unecessary. Is another trend that appeared, and Bungie tested it with Reach. Yet it was a power up, not part of the base mechanics.
By itself, Master Chief and all spartans should be fast, and honestly it brings nothing to gameplay, is something more 343 brought to imitate other fps'es, like always.
Your argument seems to just be one of turning the opposing side's into ad absurdum
Hot Take: Halo 5 advanced movement is the best "4th pillar" in the Halo sandboxes. Better than equipment or armor abilities. Unlike those examples it respects and evolves how shooting grenades and melee all interact.
Hot Take: No
In all seriousness would you say for example, think spartan charge was a good evolution on melee?
I personally really like being able to sprint, but I see that I enjoy the games that don’t have it more.
Not that I hate Reach, 4 and 5. I love those games flaws and all.
Sprint, in a modern Halo retrospective is needed. A lot of new players would look at the classic halo and wonder “how tf do i sprint?” especially since it’s a modern shooter, which most of them do have a sprint button
But the classic games, no sprint had a really nice feel and identity. ODST especially. It feels like Halo, the gameplay is nice and people understand how it’s different from other games.
The inclusion of sprint really makes you think of other games, and really changes the identity of the Mp
Yeah
Halo reach did sprint right, limited time and recharge and the sprint to fire time takes a second, but in the older games their sandbox being built with no sprint is good, the maps are smaller, and are built for slower movement. And bigger maps had vehicles so it all worked, but in reach the maps were increased in size and built around faster movement. Whether halo has sprint or not, if it feels good around the ENTIRE sandbox, then honestly it doesnt really matter.
Overall sprint works really well with campaign (I’m imagining of not having it on halo reach legendary)
But causes a lot of problems with the multiplayer sandbox
too slow too which is dangerous for dmr, sniper, etc
18:00 Random crits in TF2 are the bane of most players existence and all competitive settings have that garbage turned off
Yeah I Don't think I illustrated that point well. People will still play, and enjoy, the game despite seemingly unfair features such as random crits.
Such a underated video , love you're content
There are valid reasons for people to like sprint, but the majority of people I see advocating for it to stay are mindless drones using those same talking points
CS never has and never was supposed to be 100% accurate on the first shot.
for all of the heavy sprint advocates, i have two words, Game balancing.
and that's coming from someone who likes sprint.
The jetpack & spartan abilities screwed with balance much more, yet noone ever talks about it
@@mfspectacular WE HAVE ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT IT. Everyone hated armour lock back in the day and still hate it today. Its just that there is no argument there. We all agree. Armour lock was removed. Sprint is the controversial mechanic.
@@adenjones1802 i mentioned the jetpack (in reach & 4) & (5's) spartan abilities. Sprint doesnt got sht on those 2 in breaking combat & maps. You can literally fly around- to varying degrees in the 3 games lol, not just a quick jog. Armor lock is a meme more than anything, a hindrance compared to all the movement abilities. Dont get why you brought it up
@@mfspectacular Yes and we have talked about all of them. Sprint is the only one most people are willing to fight us back on because they are used to it from other games. Also I like how you say "no one talks about it" and then when people talk about it your like "Dont get why you brought it up."
@@adenjones1802 lies, the entire community focuses on sprint & ignores the ability to fly around- which has been in halo just as long. You bringing up armor lock & not adding onto or aruging (just ignoring) what i said with the jetpack/abilities only proves that
Mfs wouldnt be so focused on sprint if bungie simply had its' speed be a variable, having it changable like jump height & all that. Gonna be interesting to see how people adapt the the grapple shot compared to the jetpack & abilities either way. Or that shield thing that reflects projectiles, as it was shown to give a bit of a boost like the hammer (imagine that in say, mint blitz' hands)
I fucking absolutely hate sprint in halo.
Main reason i dont care for it is cause i like going nuts with the hammer, especially against vehicles. Being able to literally fly around has been in halo just as long as sprint & screws w gameplay much more. Yet a majority of the community focused on the lesser of the 2 for a decade now lol
I played the Halos on the 360 and after a long time the Anniversary Edition on PC, and I'm playing Infinite currently. I never played the MP, I just don't like it, so I can't say how it affects it.
I never considered Halo games as good shooters because of the non-standard Halo controls, and I've always seen the lack of sprint as a flaw. But Infinite is one of the best shooters I've ever played, after DOOM: Eternal. And I'm playing it like Eternal. High risk combat with the grapple hook, and running and climbing around meleeing the grunts, it's so satisfying.
I'm just watching this for the entertainment value because you're funny. I'm personally neutral to sprint. I don't care if it's in or out of the game. I played Halo 3 a shit ton, but also Reach and 5. If it's a fun game to me, it's a fun game. That's all that matters
Halo 2 player here. I've been looking for a replacement since it went off on console.
I just replayed halo 4 yesterday for the first time in a long time. Man the writing does not hold up. There's a lot of potential that just squandered for a rush to try to prove themselves as being better the bungie. The point on movement though, I agree with the fact that sprint doesn't make sense. Especially in halo 4. You have no options out of it aside from melee which was significantly weakened from the previous games. Levels don't feel better with it. and levels with actual scale make better use of vehicles for movement then sprint does. That being said, things I did like regarding movement. I actually do enjoy both variants of the thrusters, the quick burst movement and the jet back. My biggest compliant since halo ce was elites (and brutes from halo 2) onward having an instant F your shot, F your grenade I'm out. Having something similar to a brief burst mobility for better positioning I like. And you the player even get all the same weakness they have when doing so. There was also Halo 2 the brutes being able to jet around the battle field yet somehow the unsc didn't have also have an answer for it with their best super soilders to hunt them down or have better escape options or positioning options for things like say sniping. Lore wise it bothered me. These things I did like, being limited to only sometimes having them is a pain, but it does make the places you can use them feel special for it.
My other issue was the fact sprint had an internal cool down. Why? It literally made no sense and would constantly break any form of immersion to the point I just stopped bothering with sprint altogether, and utilize rapid weapon switching or fidgeting with whatever armor mod I had to break up the long unnecessary sprint sections. These guys are super soldiers with armor that in low handles literally all their needs. What do you mean sprinting tires him out? As people have said, If I want better movement options that's what vehicles are for, and typically even in halo 4 vehicles are mostly a plenty.
I love games with more mobility, but it's a bad fit for Halo. It works in Titanfall because the low-ttk, low-recoil sandbox is made for it.
Mobility, whether as sprint, double jump, wall-running, or any other mechanic, is a defensive upgrade, so unless there is a matching attack upgrade, it will slow the game down and punish aggression. Sure, you move and expend other actions faster, but the kills are spread further apart. And if you only counteract mobility with damage, you create a situation where anyone who does not used the evasive tools as much as possible will be playing with a health nerf due to the damage hitting them just the same as the ninja types.
I like sprint and other movement options in swat, because it gives some defensive options to counter the deliberately extreme damage, but it's certainly not worth the damage it does to the rest of the game balance.
I think sprint sticks around purely to comfort bad players who don't want to feel punished with "wasted" time as the run back to the fight. They like the urgency of the animation because it mirrors their emotions.
Make a separate playlist w no sprint. 🤷🏻
the biggest atrocity is using a centered reticle
I un respectfully disagree with most of your closing points
Nothing disrespectful
But there is a fundamental abundance of opportunities for miscommunications and understandings in this video that has caused me to lose respect for the presentation
I have work but I might elaborate on my thoughts further as I DO LOVE the way things are organized
Lmfao ong this video is such a fucken nothing video to me bro just read some comments and reddit posts for 20 minutes
I was under the impression Halo 5 had such larger maps because it was the first Halo game developed specifically for 8th gen consoles and they wanted to flex their technical power on bigger map sizes that could support more active players, not because you can travel faster with sprint.
As a developer (not on halo though). I can assure you that we don't just build a massive map for no reason other than to flex. Every design decision has to carry weight. Everytime we move to implement something, it costs the project. We only have so much budget, there is a target we need to hit.
The maps are larger because it is a necessity not a luxury.
the reason why being able to have different movement modes like walk vs sprint feels "right" in games is because even in a "fantasy shooter" as you call it a baseline of realism is expected. you are a humanoid figure in a familiar gravity based environment. these are basic on a different level than "bodily functions". its on the level of general physics. you assume it is supposed to be roughly 1g gravity unless stated otherwise. so your brain has expectations on how fast objects fall, how a jump of a certain speed will follow a parabolic arc. if this doesnt match up your "fantasy" needs to give you reasons why or your head will constantly be torn between what it expects to happen and what happens on screen. there is perceived movement speed due to your brain innately referencing the terrain moving past you based on real world experience.
you know what it "feels" like to run and if the game gives you the impression that you are moving slower than you should based on jump trajectories and the assumption that the spartan should be at least as fast as a regular human if not faster.
take crouching for example: by your argument you could balance your game around not being able to crouch, but still have passages that you can shoot through if aligned standing from the right position and look big enough that you could fit through IF ONLY you could crouch. or half height cover that that does serve the purpose of blocking an angle into a flight of stairs but also could grant you cover from other angles IF ONLY you could crouch. the game will feel constantly feel like it is missing something because it is depriving the player of a seemingly possible action.
you can only avoid this feeling by sufficiently depriving your brain from familiar concepts like by putting you into a spaceship in space with close to no environmental reference points for speed.
You are putting too much thought into it. A big argument I see here is why is that realism os needed in Halo other than feeling real. Does it make the game more fun? Does it add to the gameplay in a positive way? Sure it's realistic but I've been shot in real life and it hurt like hell after the shock wore off. Realism isn't always fun is what I'm trying to say.
Your analogy about sprinting and the feeling of it but look at my being shot. Just because my character in the game is being shot doesn't mean me not feeling that detracts from the experience. The same can be said for having a variable sprint mechanic.
Sprint made maps larger. Halo has a long time to kill, sprint allows players to run from a fight rather than going toe to toe in a dance of death. As a party game, which halo is, being forced to flight was all part of the fun of it. Now, as the maps are larger, play styles have dramatically changed from core halo experiences. Sprint damaged halo as a brand so I understand their argument. I understand yours too but the other side of this is at least explaining why it makes the game unfun and they have many valid points. All I see for support of sprint is that it's realistic.
Halo 3 carried high player activity for years, Reach carried for a while but not like 3. Ever since 4, the player base has vanished. Millions show up to buy the new releases praying for a Halo game. Then after they see it's not halo they move on. This did not happen with 1 - 3 and they did not have variable sprint. They did have sprint though, that was the max move speed of your character.
Just make default run speed faster if the maps are big.
What about the weapon balance
@@adenjones1802 What about it? The only thing that would rally need to be increased is Covenant projectile speed to account for increased player speed.
Tho I personally wouldn't change much from Halo 3's perfected formula. Maybe keep armor abilities, but limit them to active use(like the plasma deflect) and avoid movement based ones. Halo would actually stand a chance if it just stayed close to it's casual and chill roots instead of trying to be it's competitors.
I think that it would be easier to balance sprint if halo had ADS (not saying Halo SHOULD have ADS), it would give the devs more tools to balance how useful/powerful sprint is in games
Wait why am I watching this vid even do I dont play halo
Play it
@@unknownwill4th549 damn, but i have australian internet soo uhh, i dont fancy waiting 10 days to play halo
So many of these arguments for sprints are... not arguments
With you up until TF2. Crits in TF2 are literally cancerous.
Seriously though good vids.