What a Spirit filled man.. i started following Mr Pageau after seeing his interview with Jordan and M Hidjab.. His attitude just showed class, humility and self control
In Tarkovsky's film ANDRE RUBLEV, about a Medieval Russian icon painter, the ending is a revelation, an epiphany, about this form of art. Johnathan's art.
Great conversation! I really enjoy Jonathan Pageau. He’s inspired me to finally write my first book, and he has really helped restore my love of God’s creation and design in the world, and especially in art. You’re both right; it can be so hard to enjoy art and creating beautiful things in Protestantism, even though our Lord is the Original Creator!!
As a fellow Christian and an aspiring writer, I am curious what kind of book you are writing: Is it fiction or non-fiction? Is the intended audience Christian or broad? I would love to get a conversation going about that.
“Being shaped into the Image of The Son” is the Father’s greatest desire. And you’re right, Ruslan. Chisels hurt. Sandpaper hurts. But the finished product is greater than we could have ever imagined in our own strength. Praise Him for his Grace and Mercy and in remembering we are but dust!
As A Christian Hip Hop Artist I am Thankful for channels like these the more I study Church History shows me how much I am lacking in my understanding of the body of Christ. After touring and even reaching over 2 million + streams I did not hesitate to stop making music and start searching for more truth as far as Christianity. I realized how closed minded I was as far as what I had been taught since a kid growing up in a Pentecostal church. Reality is that we have been taught we have the truth and everyone els is wrong. I definitely feel refreshed with these videos and have gained a lot of knowledge and understanding. Blessings bro🙏🏽
I am blessed to finally know more of the background story of this man who seems to always be at Jordan Peterson's right hand! Thank you for having guests like this!
Art is a gift from God to us to worship Him through it. Be it music, visual arts, dance, theatre. Because all of it can reflect beauty, His beauty. I am Catholic, and when I get to participate in a Mass where the art in the church, the music, the senses, like smell with the incense, the paintings and icons, everything is summed up to the worship of God in total beauty. I get why God made us creative beings. Because to worship Him we do it by immersing ourselves in the gifts He has given us, the liturgy of the word; sight, hearing, mind and the liturgy of the Eucharist, taste, heart, soul.
I really enjoyed listening to Jonathan Pageau's life journey. It'll be interesting to see how God continues to work in his life in the days and years to come.
Ruslan in order to understand what Johnathan is talking about i highly recommend you read these both books, James B jordan through new eyes and language of creation by Matthieu Pageau who happens to be Johnathans brother. These books will blow your mind guaranteed.
@@matews We bow down and kiss that person depicted in relationship to God. So yes. Idolatry is a state of the heart that fails to see how matter participates in and points to God. So you shouldn't judge people for venerating icons if you struggle to see how icons participate in God.
@@matews Intellectually one believing in an idol is idolatry. It’s as simple as this, there’s no need to bow down/worship an idol. Jesus Christ, who is King of Kings, is LORD of all. The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, worship God Almighty
Orthodoxy is the one and true church. The one and only church God created and promised to preserve until the end of times. Truth will always shine. Glory to God ❤
Thanks for decent content and quality conversation. Top notch and appreciated. Side note - Jonathan mentions "My wife didn't work...(while you were 'poor and homeschooling)..."didn't work" ??? I bet she 'worked every waking moment of the day'...as did my home educating wife... please rephrase it to "was not in 'fiscally paid' employment'. Let's give our women due honor and appreciate their phenomenal sacrifices of love...which includes their work. Reframing our paradigm
I love it!.. that's it. God is saving "human making" and transforming it to His Good. That's the Catholic Church, the body of Christ made up of broken humans who participate in their man made form to be transformed by God. The Catholic Church is transformed by God, it's not just a man-made religion.
Love this man. He lead me to Orthodoxy. Thanks for having him. Many will get to see where to find the depths of the Christian faith by hearing this man.
Illiteracy is high now imagine pre reformation Christianity. The fact of history is that art was used to translate the gospel which is why churches and cathedrals taught the masses the gospel visually and the priests and bishops who were taught the bible conveyed the responsibility of teaching to those who could not read or lacked the scriptures. The text was read in the churches one OT text, One NT text and a gospel to the masses.
"Orthodox arm of the Church." I know Jonathan is extremely charitable and kind, but that's certainly not how we view things. The Orthodox Church is just the Church.
Ruslan, thank you for the excellent interview. You probably have reasons for your wardrobe choice (a form of art), but taking some cues from Jonathan and JP would help you “properly fit together”. 😊
😅. No matter how orthodoxs and roman catholics try to twist the scriptures regarding images. If they truly worship and believe in the God of the Bible and He tells us to not do something (regardless if we know and understand the reason or not) Just don't do it! Don't try to find all kind of excuses under the Sun to justify it. It's that simple. 1 Samuel 15:22 AMP Samuel said, “Has the LORD as great a delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obedience to the voice of the LORD? Behold, TO OBEY IS BETTER THAN SACRIFICE , And to heed [is better] than the fat of rams. God wants us to obey Him. If He tells us to make an image of Him than we make an image of Him. If He says do not make any image of any sort that represents the things of the spiritual Nature to venerate/ worship and so on. Then we obey it's that simple. We shouldn't say, oh once God said to make a craven image so that means we should always make graven images now? I'll give an example of how that logic does not work. How many times has God said to make an ark. Only that one time with Noah, it hasn't been done ever since. God requires obedience. Why is the world in the state it is. We live in a fallen curse world because of disobedience. I hope anyone (Christians) who are genuinely seeking the truth of God understand this and stop mixing paganism with Christianity. Abraham was obedient to God and through Him, He made the nation of Israel and Jesus came through that nation. Why?! because of obedience. Glory to God forever 🙏
@@plokijplok4072 Thank you! obedience to God is one an great virtue! But do not pick and choose! We do not make images of God! He is incarnated In Jesus Christ! He maked a Image of himself! And what about: This is my Body! This is my Blood! Luke 22, 18:20! Are we obeying or interpreting here?
@@plokijplok4072 and yes, the Holy Scriptures that you refer to are put together from the Chatolich Curch few Centuries after the Apostles! Just saying! The first Belivers belived what Ortadox and Chatolics belive till today! Read the Church Fathers from First Centuries! you won’t find a evangelical among dem!
@11antun I don't understand what you mean by : This is my body, this is my blood, if we are obeying or interpreting it? And about picking and choosing? All I was pointing at was obedience above all. As you said "do not make images, I will make an image" mic drop. That's a total disobediance. Doing the complete opposite.
On RUclips there are some excellent videos about sacred geometry which can be related to the patterns Jonathan speaks of, like the helix in the sunflower. In a way, the creative artist is more profound than the student of sacred geometry, because his art integrates pattern within this living world, and creates or discovers the emergent meaning expressed materially. He stands the gap, beyond the virtuality of language.
I've listened to a lot of Pageau, and fractals are awesome and ive gained aot from his insight. But, ive never heard of him talk about God or supernatural outside of symbolism. Like i get the impression he wouldn't believe a being could take form beside us and start talking
He's talked about miracles, healing, Christ's physical presence on earth, his death and resurrection etc, and acted like he believes it all happened. He's pretty hardcore Christian, supernatural beliefs and all
Symbolism in the ancient context means the point where two rivers meet. It's the place where Heaven and Earth meet. It's not Metaphor. So when he's talking about symbolism, in the realest sense possible he's talking about a world that modern people are largely divorced from-a place where the Incarnation of the Godman is more real than real.
It sounds like his talent is informing his theology... of course, an artist wouldn't have a problem with icons in the Church... makes his positions less authentic
For those who insist icon=image=idol. 158 THE SYNOD OF JERUSALEM 1672 And if some say we commit idolatry in adoring the Saints, and the Eikons of the Saints, and the other things, we regard it as foolish and frivolous. For we worship with *LATRIA* the only God in Trinity, and none other ; but the Saints we honour upon two accounts : firstly, for their relation to God, since we honour them for His sake ; and for themselves, because they are living images of God. But that which is for themselves hath been defined as of *DULIA* . But the holy Eikons [we adore] relatively, since the honour paid to them is referred to their PROTOTYPES. For he that adoreth the Εikon doth, through the Εikon, adore the prototype ; and the honour paid to the Εikon is not at all divided, or at all separated from that of him that is pourtrayed, and is done unto the same, like that done unto a royal embassy.
So the second commandment "to have no graven images" is not telling us not to have graven images but to not treat those images as equal to or greater than God. Okay. But then that posses the question of how is the second commandment any different from the first "I am the Lord you God you shall have no other Gods before me."? To understand this better we need to understand the ten commandments better. When God gave the ten commandments to Moses he did not a list of ten points. God gave Moses a single message written on two stone tablets. Now this single message contained 12 or 13 (depending on how you count it) thou shall and thou shall not statements (as well as some statements of fact), but the Bible refers to this as the ten commandments, So how do we know how they are supposed to be numbered? Well, we don't. Different churches number them and understand them differently, Jews one way, Catholics another, Orthodox another, and Protestants another. Catholics in particular do not consider the statement about graven images to be the second command and receive a lot of criticism for it. It is often said that they are trying to hide that commandment and split up the tenth to hide it. But this is not the case, similarly to how Mr. Pageau so eloquently articulated Catholics believe that statement about graven images is not a condemnation of images but a condemnation of treating things of this world like God. What Catholics believe is that the statement about graven images was not a second and distinct commandment but God restating and reemphasizing the first commandment do to the Israelites tendency to this particular form of idolatry. The reason Catholic consider the statement about coveting your neighbors goods and coveting your neighbors is because while both are about coveting they are different sins. Coveting your neighbors goods is the sin of greed and gluttony while coveting your neighbors wife is the sin of lust and thus are distinct from each other. So I wanna pose the question from the start of my comment. If the the commandment about graven images is not a condemnation of images outright and is actually a condemnation of treating images like God than how is that different from the first commandment "you shall have no other Gods before me"? I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this, I love learning more about what other people believe and how they understand Scripture. God Bless.
It's an interesting question. Check out Michael Heiser's work and you may get your answer. Additionally, whenever there's questions of this nature, I'd seek an deeper review of the original text language (Hebrew, in this case) and the full context surrounding it culturally and historically. A question like yours could take weeks to fully examine. But you can expect the effort to be rewarding.
I really like this video. Jonathan Pageau is amazing to me. Thanks to him and Jordan Peterson, I’m closer to God. I like some of your videos but some are hard for me, they are too preachy for secular people. Maybe you are aiming only to a Christian audience. If not, these two great minds are great examples on how to help and bring people closer to God. You can embody the purpose and manifest truth without isolating people.
I like this channel, but the interviewer spoils it by saying "mm-hm" or "uh-hu" or "yeah, yeah, yeah" into the mic like every 0.7 seconds. Once you hear it, it's all you hear.
Proverbs 16:6 "6 By mercy and truth iniquity(:the desire to seek lawlessness against God) is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil." Psalms 85:10-13 "Mercy and truth are met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth shall spring out of the earth; And righteousness shall look down from heaven. Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; And our land shall yield her increase." Isaiah 55:6 "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:" Revelations 3:20 "20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" The man who died on Calvary 2000+ years ago, Jesus of Nazareth was the Word of God made flesh and is the way to truth to abundant life. Pray to him to talk to the Heavenly Father that your understanding would increase.Proverbs 16:6 "6 By mercy and truth iniquity(:the desire to seek lawlessness against God) is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil." Psalms 85:10-13 "Mercy and truth are met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth shall spring out of the earth; And righteousness shall look down from heaven. Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; And our land shall yield her increase." Isaiah 55:6 "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:" Revelations 3:20 "20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" The man who died on Calvary 2000+ years ago, Jesus of Nazareth was the Word of God made flesh and is the way to truth to abundant life. Pray to him to talk to the Heavenly Father that your understanding would increase.
Jonathan I PRAYED SO SERIOUSLY FOR Jordan Peterson’s SPIRIT!!! I DO FEEL GOD ANSWERED MY PRAYERS, through you and others. I AM PRAYING that the direction of the PETERSONs’ understanding WILL BYPASS ROMAN Catholicism. AND YOU KNOW about THE VEIL AND PRIESTHOOD BEING DISSOLVED PERMANENTLY THROUGH YESHUA’s DEATH AND RESURRECTION. Tammy was healed via a rosary and she prayed to MARY per her testimony. Satan loves this PERFECT DECEPTION. Yes !!! Something got confused. MARY DOES NOT HEAL US. Despite EVERY LIE THE RC CHURCH PURPORTS. They ARE SATANIC THROUGH AND THROUGH!!! YESHUA IS THE ONLY PRIEST!!! NO MORE ALTERS!!! NO MORE SACRIFICING!!! NO MORE EVIL CATHOLIC SYMBOLS AND PRACTICES!!! YESHUA HAMASHIACH IS THE ONLY ROCK!!! PLEASE CLARIFY THIS IN HIS HOLY NAME!! NOT MARY’S
Good interview, but please pay homage to this light by silence not by continually making acclamatory noises in which there is too much self adulation. An interviewer is a prompter not a condscendant receiver.
You just don't understand anything outside of American protestantism. We Orthodox say Christ much more often than Jesus in conversation. We say it constantly and we're always pointing out how things must be done through and witn Christ. Jonathan is no different in that regard. Pay attention.
@@joshuatrott193 Yes he said Christ but he didn’t say Jesus . I did hear him say it later in the Video. I didn’t finish the video so I dont know if he considers Jesus God or not. I didn’t get the impression that he did but I couldn’t finish the video cause I had to go somewhere. I’ll finish watching later
I don't see art as specifically purposeful...it might foster emotion and it might be exploratory but it seems like Jonathan is speaking more about anything that is created with purpose in mind.
That’s exactly the definition of art he has a problem with, art to him is the process of creating anything with respect to its purpose and modern art is purposefully divorced from any purpose
Art traditionally had deep purpose and meaning. That was its function. Art for arts sake is a very modern invention and its existence is extremely short in comparison. A fraction of a fraction of the time of the former
Well I would disagree, because for example if somebody can make some art to depict how people in the Bible lived that can serve a great purpose in understanding scriptural perception
@@nealpohl6730 exactly for virtually ALL of human history it’s been that way. This art without a purpose stuff began in the last hundred years. Maybe less TBH
🤝: Check Out The Bless God Prayer Journal Here: blessgodprayer.shop
Your thumbnail guy did Jonathan dirty, very dirty haha
What a Spirit filled man.. i started following Mr Pageau after seeing his interview with Jordan and M Hidjab.. His attitude just showed class, humility and self control
In Tarkovsky's film ANDRE RUBLEV, about a Medieval Russian icon painter, the ending is a revelation, an epiphany, about this form of art. Johnathan's art.
This is the best material I've ever heard from Ruslan. Major kudos. Worth a re-listen.
His point about art is what C.S. Lewis said about writing, which is also an art. I believe by art we are saying creativity, which is a gift.
Great conversation! I really enjoy Jonathan Pageau. He’s inspired me to finally write my first book, and he has really helped restore my love of God’s creation and design in the world, and especially in art. You’re both right; it can be so hard to enjoy art and creating beautiful things in Protestantism, even though our Lord is the Original Creator!!
Congratulations on writing a book! What's it called?
As a fellow Christian and an aspiring writer, I am curious what kind of book you are writing: Is it fiction or non-fiction? Is the intended audience Christian or broad? I would love to get a conversation going about that.
What are you writing about in your book?
“Being shaped into the Image of The Son” is the Father’s greatest desire. And you’re right, Ruslan. Chisels hurt. Sandpaper hurts. But the finished product is greater than we could have ever imagined in our own strength. Praise Him for his Grace and Mercy and in remembering we are but dust!
As A Christian Hip Hop Artist I am Thankful for channels like these the more I study Church History shows me how much I am lacking in my understanding of the body of Christ. After touring and even reaching over 2 million + streams I did not hesitate to stop making music and start searching for more truth as far as Christianity. I realized how closed minded I was as far as what I had been taught since a kid growing up in a Pentecostal church. Reality is that we have been taught we have the truth and everyone els is wrong. I definitely feel refreshed with these videos and have gained a lot of knowledge and understanding. Blessings bro🙏🏽
🙏🤍
An idol is a psychic battery which absorbs energy and acquires "presence." An icon is a window.
No
@@jbsikes6841 not the modern meaning of icon, the icons Jonathan paints in the Orthodox tradition.
@@mondopinion3777 THANK YOU! What insight. X
I am blessed to finally know more of the background story of this man who seems to always be at Jordan Peterson's right hand! Thank you for having guests like this!
Art is a gift from God to us to worship Him through it. Be it music, visual arts, dance, theatre. Because all of it can reflect beauty, His beauty. I am Catholic, and when I get to participate in a Mass where the art in the church, the music, the senses, like smell with the incense, the paintings and icons, everything is summed up to the worship of God in total beauty. I get why God made us creative beings. Because to worship Him we do it by immersing ourselves in the gifts He has given us, the liturgy of the word; sight, hearing, mind and the liturgy of the Eucharist, taste, heart, soul.
Beautiful comment.
Great conversation. Pageau is next level artisan.
I see so many bridges being built!
I wrote that, and then you two start mentioning bridges!
Brilliant interview. God Bless. Jesus is Alive
Always enjoy what Jonathan has to say.
Nice to hear a little more of his personal story this time.
Wowsers! Just checked out his carvings... stunning! His jewellery crosses are gorgeous!! What a talent. Wish i had the funds...❤ 🇬🇧
Where are his carvings? All I can find is his RUclips channels store.
@@daniebeth I just googled his name, found home page, gallery, carvings, jewellery. 😃
I really enjoyed listening to Jonathan Pageau's life journey. It'll be interesting to see how God continues to work in his life in the days and years to come.
Ruslan in order to understand what Johnathan is talking about i highly recommend you read these both books, James B jordan through new eyes and language of creation by Matthieu Pageau who happens to be Johnathans brother. These books will blow your mind guaranteed.
It’s so amazing to hear actually how life goes in practice ! Thank you both ! Christ is King
This was great conversation
Im subbing and hope we get more Orthodox talks. Wouldnt mind another stop with trent horn or if we could get a james white to.
I loved this. I'm an artist, but also a Franciscan Anglo Catholic who believes in the sacramental nature of all of life, but especially Art.
☦️
I like that… an idol replaces God… an icon points to God.
So if someone bows down to an icon and kisses an icon, is that pointing to God?
@@matewsYep
@@matews Yes, you are honoring a person who is a reflection of Christ, and you are giving thanks to God for that person.
@@matews We bow down and kiss that person depicted in relationship to God. So yes.
Idolatry is a state of the heart that fails to see how matter participates in and points to God.
So you shouldn't judge people for venerating icons if you struggle to see how icons participate in God.
@@matews Intellectually one believing in an idol is idolatry.
It’s as simple as this, there’s no need to bow down/worship an idol. Jesus Christ, who is King of Kings, is LORD of all. The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit, worship God Almighty
Orthodoxy is the one and true church. The one and only church God created and promised to preserve until the end of times. Truth will always shine. Glory to God ❤
Hi from Montreal God Bless you
I did not know that Mr. Pageau was from the same place as me ! He is Right Quebec was super catholic back in the day !
Excellent video - brilliant to see Jonathan on your channel!
What an awesome conversation. I appreciate it.
Thanks for decent content and quality conversation. Top notch and appreciated. Side note - Jonathan mentions "My wife didn't work...(while you were 'poor and homeschooling)..."didn't work" ??? I bet she 'worked every waking moment of the day'...as did my home educating wife... please rephrase it to "was not in 'fiscally paid' employment'. Let's give our women due honor and appreciate their phenomenal sacrifices of love...which includes their work. Reframing our paradigm
I love it!.. that's it. God is saving "human making" and transforming it to His Good. That's the Catholic Church, the body of Christ made up of broken humans who participate in their man made form to be transformed by God. The Catholic Church is transformed by God, it's not just a man-made religion.
Love this man. He lead me to Orthodoxy. Thanks for having him. Many will get to see where to find the depths of the Christian faith by hearing this man.
Johnathan Pageau is helping a brand new generation of people to better understand the Bible. God bless!
Thank you both
This was surprisingly so good.
Thank you so much!
Beautiful! Thank you ❤
Saw Jonathan speak here in Savannah, he is amazing
Loved this conversation. ❤
Illiteracy is high now imagine pre reformation Christianity. The fact of history is that art was used to translate the gospel which is why churches and cathedrals taught the masses the gospel visually and the priests and bishops who were taught the bible conveyed the responsibility of teaching to those who could not read or lacked the scriptures. The text was read in the churches one OT text, One NT text and a gospel to the masses.
Epic!!!!!!!
Thanks for the info. I’m going ti try to watch the rest of the video
Thanks.
All who love Christ are the Church. The Church is universal. The Church is Catholic.
False
Very true✝️🙏🏻
Thankyou
Ruslan I love you bro❤❤❤❤
Read his brother's book. "The Language of Creation "
So hard to listen to when the host is constantly saying Hmm mhh mmmm uh hmmmhummm hmmmm hmmmmmmmmm ummhummmmm.
"Orthodox arm of the Church." I know Jonathan is extremely charitable and kind, but that's certainly not how we view things. The Orthodox Church is just the Church.
Ruslan, thank you for the excellent interview. You probably have reasons for your wardrobe choice (a form of art), but taking some cues from Jonathan and JP would help you “properly fit together”. 😊
" yep mhmm ok yep ok ok ok yep mmhm" dang Ruslan I can't even hear the dude talk!!!!
Fr bro😂😂😂 mhm mhm mhm mhm mhm mhm mhm
You noticed too))) lol
„do not make images, I will make an Image…“ 🎤 drop
Well you'd better get off youube then - it's full of images.
😅. No matter how orthodoxs and roman catholics try to twist the scriptures regarding images.
If they truly worship and believe in the God of the Bible and He tells us to not do something (regardless if we know and understand the reason or not)
Just don't do it!
Don't try to find all kind of excuses under the Sun to justify it.
It's that simple.
1 Samuel 15:22 AMP
Samuel said, “Has the LORD as great a delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices As in obedience to the voice of the LORD? Behold,
TO OBEY IS BETTER THAN SACRIFICE
, And to heed [is better] than the fat of rams.
God wants us to obey Him. If He tells us to make an image of Him than we make an image of Him.
If He says do not make any image of any sort that represents the things of the spiritual Nature to venerate/ worship and so on.
Then we obey it's that simple.
We shouldn't say, oh once God said to make a craven image so that means we should always make graven images now?
I'll give an example of how that logic does not work.
How many times has God said to make an ark.
Only that one time with Noah, it hasn't been done ever since.
God requires obedience. Why is the world in the state it is. We live in a fallen curse world because of disobedience.
I hope anyone (Christians) who are genuinely seeking the truth of God understand this and stop mixing paganism with Christianity.
Abraham was obedient to God and through Him, He made the nation of Israel and Jesus came through that nation. Why?! because of obedience.
Glory to God forever 🙏
@@plokijplok4072 Thank you! obedience to God is one an great virtue! But do not pick and choose! We do not make images of God! He is incarnated In Jesus Christ! He maked a Image of himself!
And what about: This is my Body! This is my Blood! Luke 22, 18:20! Are we obeying or interpreting here?
@@plokijplok4072 and yes, the Holy Scriptures that you refer to are put together from the Chatolich Curch few Centuries after the Apostles! Just saying! The first Belivers belived what Ortadox and Chatolics belive till today! Read the Church Fathers from First Centuries! you won’t find a evangelical among dem!
@11antun I don't understand what you mean by :
This is my body, this is my blood,
if we are obeying or interpreting it? And about picking and choosing?
All I was pointing at was obedience above all.
As you said
"do not make images, I will make an image" mic drop.
That's a total disobediance.
Doing the complete opposite.
On RUclips there are some excellent videos about sacred geometry which can be related to the patterns Jonathan speaks of, like the helix in the sunflower. In a way, the creative artist is more profound than the student of sacred geometry, because his art integrates pattern within this living world, and creates or discovers the emergent meaning expressed materially. He stands the gap, beyond the virtuality of language.
Maybe talk to Jordan Peterson next if possible?
No just keep talking to Jonathon
@@nealpohl6730 why not?
Pageau and Peterson 😄
I've listened to a lot of Pageau, and fractals are awesome and ive gained aot from his insight. But, ive never heard of him talk about God or supernatural outside of symbolism. Like i get the impression he wouldn't believe a being could take form beside us and start talking
Well, he definitely does. He’s Eastern Orthodox.
He's talked about miracles, healing, Christ's physical presence on earth, his death and resurrection etc, and acted like he believes it all happened. He's pretty hardcore Christian, supernatural beliefs and all
You still don't understand what he means by symbolism then.
Symbolism in the ancient context means the point where two rivers meet.
It's the place where Heaven and Earth meet.
It's not Metaphor.
So when he's talking about symbolism, in the realest sense possible he's talking about a world that modern people are largely divorced from-a place where the Incarnation of the Godman is more real than real.
@@anothercat1300 Truth. Meta-real
Jonathan is very cool guy respect 👍
☦️☦️☦️
Liking and commenting
It the like button it helps spread the message. I hit them in the beginning, you can always remove them.
Hit
I now see how there’s a difference. But I feel like most orthodox and Catholics go farther than letting the icon turn you to God
Just because one may feel or have a sense of something, doesn’t mean its true. God bless!
If you want to see how Protestants (and others) can talk and live out faith and art, look up The Rabbit Room.
It sounds like his talent is informing his theology... of course, an artist wouldn't have a problem with icons in the Church... makes his positions less authentic
For those who insist icon=image=idol.
158 THE SYNOD OF JERUSALEM 1672
And if some say we commit idolatry in
adoring the Saints, and the Eikons of the
Saints, and the other things, we regard it as
foolish and frivolous. For we worship with
*LATRIA* the only God in Trinity, and none
other ; but the Saints we honour upon two
accounts : firstly, for their relation to God,
since we honour them for His sake ; and for
themselves, because they are living images of
God. But that which is for themselves
hath been defined as of *DULIA* . But the holy
Eikons [we adore] relatively, since the honour
paid to them is referred to their PROTOTYPES.
For he that adoreth the Εikon doth, through
the Εikon, adore the prototype ; and the
honour paid to the Εikon is not at all divided,
or at all separated from that of him that is
pourtrayed, and is done unto the same, like that done unto a royal embassy.
30:25 The second commandment; "make no image.." does exo25:18 contradict 20:4
58:01 theres no such thing as the alt right
So the second commandment "to have no graven images" is not telling us not to have graven images but to not treat those images as equal to or greater than God. Okay.
But then that posses the question of how is the second commandment any different from the first "I am the Lord you God you shall have no other Gods before me."?
To understand this better we need to understand the ten commandments better. When God gave the ten commandments to Moses he did not a list of ten points. God gave Moses a single message written on two stone tablets. Now this single message contained 12 or 13 (depending on how you count it) thou shall and thou shall not statements (as well as some statements of fact), but the Bible refers to this as the ten commandments, So how do we know how they are supposed to be numbered? Well, we don't. Different churches number them and understand them differently, Jews one way, Catholics another, Orthodox another, and Protestants another.
Catholics in particular do not consider the statement about graven images to be the second command and receive a lot of criticism for it. It is often said that they are trying to hide that commandment and split up the tenth to hide it. But this is not the case, similarly to how Mr. Pageau so eloquently articulated Catholics believe that statement about graven images is not a condemnation of images but a condemnation of treating things of this world like God. What Catholics believe is that the statement about graven images was not a second and distinct commandment but God restating and reemphasizing the first commandment do to the Israelites tendency to this particular form of idolatry. The reason Catholic consider the statement about coveting your neighbors goods and coveting your neighbors is because while both are about coveting they are different sins. Coveting your neighbors goods is the sin of greed and gluttony while coveting your neighbors wife is the sin of lust and thus are distinct from each other.
So I wanna pose the question from the start of my comment. If the the commandment about graven images is not a condemnation of images outright and is actually a condemnation of treating images like God than how is that different from the first commandment "you shall have no other Gods before me"?
I would love to hear anyone's thoughts on this, I love learning more about what other people believe and how they understand Scripture. God Bless.
It's an interesting question. Check out Michael Heiser's work and you may get your answer. Additionally, whenever there's questions of this nature, I'd seek an deeper review of the original text language (Hebrew, in this case) and the full context surrounding it culturally and historically. A question like yours could take weeks to fully examine. But you can expect the effort to be rewarding.
Is it just me or is this vid sped up? Had to check my playback speed, and it's at normal
The AI thumbnail is wild
Can u react to James white vs Trent horn on purgatory
What happened to the video about the flat earth debate???
hmmm..
i think i fit the orthodox glasses😮
Afraid your shoe example does not hold. In fact, it is dangerous. Appreciation often is an excuse.
Cool…
I really like this video. Jonathan Pageau is amazing to me. Thanks to him and Jordan Peterson, I’m closer to God. I like some of your videos but some are hard for me, they are too preachy for secular people. Maybe you are aiming only to a Christian audience. If not, these two great minds are great examples on how to help and bring people closer to God. You can embody the purpose and manifest truth without isolating people.
I like this channel, but the interviewer spoils it by saying "mm-hm" or "uh-hu" or "yeah, yeah, yeah" into the mic like every 0.7 seconds. Once you hear it, it's all you hear.
Proverbs 16:6 "6 By mercy and truth iniquity(:the desire to seek lawlessness against God) is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil." Psalms 85:10-13 "Mercy and truth are met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth shall spring out of the earth; And righteousness shall look down from heaven. Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; And our land shall yield her increase." Isaiah 55:6 "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:" Revelations 3:20 "20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" The man who died on Calvary 2000+ years ago, Jesus of Nazareth was the Word of God made flesh and is the way to truth to abundant life. Pray to him to talk to the Heavenly Father that your understanding would increase.Proverbs 16:6 "6 By mercy and truth iniquity(:the desire to seek lawlessness against God) is purged: and by the fear of the Lord men depart from evil." Psalms 85:10-13 "Mercy and truth are met together; Righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Truth shall spring out of the earth; And righteousness shall look down from heaven. Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; And our land shall yield her increase." Isaiah 55:6 "Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:" Revelations 3:20 "20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me" The man who died on Calvary 2000+ years ago, Jesus of Nazareth was the Word of God made flesh and is the way to truth to abundant life. Pray to him to talk to the Heavenly Father that your understanding would increase.
Why was Ruslan so nervous?
"Tools profane the altar" -Moses
Dude the confirmation bias of Ruslan is insane! lol. He really don't like the Fundies.
Can Ruslan not agree with what Jonathan says every second. It's so distracting from what Jonathan is saying. It's like he isn't even listening.
Jonathan
I PRAYED SO SERIOUSLY FOR Jordan Peterson’s SPIRIT!!! I DO FEEL GOD ANSWERED MY PRAYERS, through you and others.
I AM PRAYING that the direction of the PETERSONs’ understanding WILL BYPASS ROMAN Catholicism. AND YOU KNOW about THE VEIL AND PRIESTHOOD BEING DISSOLVED PERMANENTLY THROUGH YESHUA’s DEATH AND RESURRECTION.
Tammy was healed via a rosary and she prayed to MARY per her testimony.
Satan loves this PERFECT DECEPTION. Yes !!!
Something got confused.
MARY DOES NOT HEAL US. Despite EVERY LIE THE RC CHURCH PURPORTS. They ARE SATANIC THROUGH AND THROUGH!!!
YESHUA IS THE ONLY PRIEST!!! NO MORE ALTERS!!! NO MORE SACRIFICING!!! NO MORE EVIL CATHOLIC SYMBOLS AND PRACTICES!!! YESHUA HAMASHIACH IS THE ONLY ROCK!!!
PLEASE CLARIFY THIS
IN HIS HOLY NAME!!
NOT MARY’S
Good interview, but please pay homage to this light by silence not by continually making acclamatory noises in which there is too much self adulation. An interviewer is a prompter not a condscendant receiver.
Some moments I couldn’t pay attention to Jonathan speaking because the interviewer kept saying “Uh huh” after every word Jonathan said 🤣
"NOBODY HAS SEEN"? That is a lie. How would ruslan know?! He can't know.
I haven’t finished watching but so far I get sis when people won’t say JESUS!
He says Christ in the first 3 minutes.
You get upset when people don't say Jesus?
You just don't understand anything outside of American protestantism. We Orthodox say Christ much more often than Jesus in conversation. We say it constantly and we're always pointing out how things must be done through and witn Christ. Jonathan is no different in that regard. Pay attention.
Even with the exclamation sign?
@@joshuatrott193 Yes he said Christ but he didn’t say Jesus . I did hear him say it later in the Video. I didn’t finish the video so I dont know if he considers Jesus God or not. I didn’t get the impression that he did but I couldn’t finish the video cause I had to go somewhere. I’ll finish watching later
I never thought I was nitpicky but the constant mhms by the host make this really hard to listen to for me lol
uh huh uh huh hmm uh huh uh huh hmmm... dude please stop LOL
Guy sounds like he’s doing a parody of Andrew Schulz. He also does the random switching to ebonics voice like Schulz
You guys are really worked up about that huh? Lol
@@MegaMerdeux why you like it
I don't see art as specifically purposeful...it might foster emotion and it might be exploratory but it seems like Jonathan is speaking more about anything that is created with purpose in mind.
He is saying art was always understood to have a purpose.
That’s exactly the definition of art he has a problem with, art to him is the process of creating anything with respect to its purpose and modern art is purposefully divorced from any purpose
Art traditionally had deep purpose and meaning. That was its function. Art for arts sake is a very modern invention and its existence is extremely short in comparison. A fraction of a fraction of the time of the former
Well I would disagree, because for example if somebody can make some art to depict how people in the Bible lived that can serve a great purpose in understanding scriptural perception
@@nealpohl6730 exactly for virtually ALL of human history it’s been that way. This art without a purpose stuff began in the last hundred years. Maybe less TBH
Dang slow down my man! I can't even hear the dude talk!
Iconogrophist!!
Convert.
Bro, worst thumbnail caption and photograph ever, lol. 😂😂😂
Just saying. God Bless.
Host gotta chill on his Andrew Schulz-isms
Nope. To all this, nope.
stop speaking on things if you’re too lazy to even google it before.
also stop blasting those bright lights pls
MMMmmmmmm yep yep yep