What are your thoughts on the matter? Should DS4's be banned as well? Gafrobox website: gafro.stores.jp/ More info on the Gafrobox on twitter: twitter.com/Gafrohair Daigo explaining his buttons: ruclips.net/video/Du42I4VKNyg/видео.html
Yes Or at least until someone finds a way to force it into neutral cleaning with a port or something, but since it's wireless I doubt it because if they did it's the same as banning it out right since I'm pretty sure that it will cause input delay.
The more I think about this, the more that I think there needs to be hammered out guidelines on what can and can't be on a custom made stick. Back in the USF4 days, Tokido had extra buttons on his arcade stick as well. One was mapped to Up which allowed for instant Ultra 2.
You left out the important part where the gafrobox type Daigo used was allowed previously at tournaments (by other players), and that he specifically contacted TO's (including ones from Combo Breaker) and asked if they had okayed the gafroboxes in the past and they said yes. Although this is Capcom's ruling and not Combo Breaker's, but Daigo did do his homework.
Then you are missing the point, those other tournaments were small in comparison to a Capcom sponsor Pro Tour venue. You think there are over thousands of dollars on the line, and nobody's going to call bullshit?
@@ww-pw6di 1k? You small-time little boy, these tournaments go up to half a million dollars. You can't even count money, get back to your lemonade stand lol
Capcom did not offer any actual reason for why the Hit Box is banned, people are only speculating. Multiple buttons performing the same action has never been banned in the FGC prior, so it's ridiculous to assume this is the reason. Sako uses extra buttons and has for years, if that was the reason the Hit Box was banned then Sako would have been banned. As explained in the video, the pad can also do the same SOCD input for things like Sonic Booms. Nuckledu has been doing it since SF4. Capcom basically banned the Gafrobox because of all of the controversy about the controller and they wanted to look like they were doing something about it, but needed more time to think about what the proper solution should be. Either the ban is going to get reversed, or controller rules are going to get real topsy turvy real quick and they'll need to do things like ban pads, ban Sako's stick, ban mods, ban custom controllers, do all sorts of wacky stuff.
I agree that's exactly what happened. But I don't think they will change any rules. They will leave everything as is. Avoid rocking the boat. Business as usual.
@randomguy8196 The game foes have SOCD cleaning, and it's a similar method to Daigo's Gafro box. Except instead of it picking the second input of left+right, it instead opts to forward, which gives you a lot of the same results, however because it's tied to the game logic of forward, it basically option selects the direction you input for you. That's how the game natively works.
it's because of the mob mentality. the pressure from people got capcom confused and didn't have the time to actually study it so they just said "ban it. we will look at it later".
It's because hitboxes are flat out superior to fight sticks. Thing is, beat em up games are closely related to fightstick manufacturer. I assume the companies put pressure on capcom, at least until they ajusted to the market and sold of most of the fightstick stock while having a hitbox lineup ready. Usually this takes less then a years.
That's not "reverse psychology." If it were, that would mean he wants people to leave a dislike if they didn't like the video. "Reverse psychology" is when you tell someone to do or not do the opposite of what you really want them to do or not do.
New Rules: All participants are required to use a single mouse to play the game. Figuring out how to make it work is not our problem Addendem: Mice are now banned from tournaments due to the function of the scroll wheel, all participants are now required to hold street fights in front of the building to determine winners Addendum: Now participant over 150lbs is allowed to participate in the tournament street fight in front of the building, all fighters must weigh in before pools Addendum: All participants are required to be over the age of 18 to enter the tournament. Addendum: Capcom will now randomly select one winner from all entrants and no one will fight anyone, in game or otherwise.
nope. what i did notice is he does not speak a word of junk in this video, every single sentence is detail that is accurate, to the point, and very clear. great video for novice and pros alike
@The Big Game Theory He said nothing about PS4 vs daigos controller. He is right tho, all contestants should have a level playing field, which means standardized controllers. This just means that in addition to the now banned controller, people using the PS4 one have an actual advantage over people who don't use them. Is that ok? Or is your stance on that just buy one as well?
I think people should be allowed to bring a modded controller as long as it follows the rules because conforming players to the same controller may not allow them to play to their best abilities. In smash ultimate most players on competitive will play with a game cube controller because it’s comfortable for them and it has a little less input lag. If we forced everyone to play on pro controller, we instantly see that players muscle memory go to shit as they can’t make the frame tight inputs needed to tech a hit or parry. They should just have a more defined rule set for modding the controllers.
@@kingace1713 all kinds really, was mostly into single player before i got a pc. Now i pretty much just play online multiplayer games. OW, For Honor, Rust.
The game engine should handle SOCD not the controller. So long as a controller is not using macros I don't see a problem. I get wrist ache using an arcade stick so I'd like to get a hitbox eventually.
most games do. the problem is in SFV The socd is whatever button you pressed last, this allows for OSes with SOCD inputs. in other games like guilty gear or UNIST, the socd defaults to neutral when you have multiple buttons pressed. this means that you dont have any oses that a joystick player wouldnt have. there is also the problem that sfv has a bunch of really silly special shortcuts, like f, df, f for dp when most other games require that a z (dp) complete down input before the fwd at the end
Xionical turning left and right on the steering wheel doesn’t do anything in a fighting game, so in theory he’s just using a funky looking ps4 controller for jokes. core A gaming made a while video on him using the controller
I don't know what the difference is between a keyboard and an arcade stick minus the stick part I mean the buttons are actually closer together making it more comfortable than an arcade sticks
@@bland9876 that's the thing, I've played on both and man oh man they keyboard sure feels way easy. Also macros can be set on keyboard which is obviously cheating
@@neminemii6366 its not very hard to vet a keyboard user and discover if they are using some sort of macro and from your line of argument 8 face buttons should be banned bc people can use them for different actions such as movement or a combination of buttons
@@jinfrozenfire Yeah not a band wagon anything. Daigo sucks at sf5. He doesnt win anymore. Dont care how good he was at third strike or sf4. He cant hang anymore. WOMP womp yuou 09'er
ds4 is the same as DS$. the debate is not hitboxes not alowed, neither no 2 of the same imput. But custom made vs arcade controller manufacturers lobby.
@@josefernandez4423 Hi man, I'm a Tekken player so I don't know much about why controller, especially hitbox is so significant for him. And as you said that Daigo said he would consider pad. Can you please explain a bit why is stick not suitable for him? What's the limitation in stick? What can you do in Street Fighter that can't be done , or is very hard to perform on a stick as compared to a pad or hitbox. Thanks
@@HATL201 this hitbox would allow instant dashes and faster charges of some moves. It at the same time would skip neutral when going from left to right. The inputs are more instant too as an arcade stick requires logically more movement. Daigo will still be fine tho since he's been using arcade sticks for decades now
This is ridiculous how people make a big deal about a hitbox so it doesn't have a socd cleaner neither do stock ps4 controllers nuckledu has been doing this on pad for years and no one cares.
@@ninjapandathethird6241 "being daigo" has shit to do with it Daigo said himself that he had 3 "UP" keys on his Gafrobox, along with another key macro'd to V-Trigger i really dont understand why people keep praising Daigo for "getting a controller banned just for being Daigo" Hitboxes are pretty much fancy keyboards when it comes to the key speed and such, but the Gafrobox specifically, is cheating shit
The issue was most people in tournaments werent playing on keyboard for tournaments. Hit box got popular so alot of the issues surrounding opposing inputs have started to show up
Daigo plays guile. You can keep charging booms while throwing a boom with this setup which is probably why it was banned. The only weird thing is you can do this on a DualShock as well..
I dont think this would be an issue if guile was not daigo's main...if he used zangief or even ryu for example then his hit box will be less effective which would not lead to a ban....Daigo is a superb street fighter player....but he became one of the worlds best players with guile....his moves are very charge heavy which maximizes the abilities of this hitbox and puts other players at a disadvantage....its not fair to ban someone who has figured out how to maximize his/her character
no the problem is misinformation and misunderstanding how these things function and daigo is just proving that no one understands how this works by using it lol also notice how this is only a problem with SFV and not any other fighting game
The stick on a dull shock is no where near as precise as the buttons on a hitbox. The dullshock stick also has trouble returning to neutral. It likes to bounce past which creates extra inputs.
Igniting a custom made arcade controllers debate. It was not banned for being a hitbox, if it was all others would be banned. Its was not banned for having several inputs. It was banned for being custom made. It happens all the time, only this was a famous player.
I wouldn't ban the hitbox. He still has to presses buttons. If the hitbox had automated inputs, that'd be cheating. But, having more button options, may be an advantage, but no one is limited from getting one themselves. I'd legalize it.
My perspective exactly. Macros are definitely cheating. Having more button options is an advantage, and anyone can customize their hitbox to have them just like the Gafrobox in question. So TBH, anyone can make this monstrosity to use haha... Legal? Yes. Shady? Somewhat.
Cool! Your video came up on my stream and I’m so happy it did. Very interesting stuff! Definitely worth a sub! Also, glad to see all the views it’s generating!
A bit of a correction on hitboxes being able to block in both ways in Marvel vs Capcom. If you have a typical custom hitbox where you just wire the D-Pad to four buttons and press both left and right you will get the "last win" behavior on everything as far back as PS2 (in my experience of building them), perhaps even further. The ability to block in both directions comes to wiring one direction to the D-Pad and the other direction to the analog stick. This is not only something the controllers can do, but I'll say it's something that they can do better than a hitbox. This is because if (for example) you choose to wire your right button to analog right, and the rest of your buttons to everything else, you then loose the ability to throw fireballs or dragon punches in the right direction. You would need extra buttons (like on Daigo's stick) to effectively block in both directions. I'll also comment that in my opinion SODC (what I refer to as Simultaneous Opposing Direction Cancels, not cleaning) is effectively worthless. There's not a single fighter on PC with native PC controls that I know of which behaves that way. It's because it's a bad experience and does not behave the way a player will expect it to behave. The "last winner" behavior is the way to go and is essential for these controls to remain competitive (not give a competitive advantage) with other controllers. As a long time keyboard (hitbox) player this is something I hope the community gets over soon. Especially considering the Official Xbox Elite controller, which I think most people would accept as official legal, is able to perform all these techniques even easier than a hitbox or keyboard; and again I'll mention is the exact behavior developer choose to officially support in the PC versions of their games. I'll even insist they choose to officially support in the console versions because as you mention you can do this on a controller anyway (just not ergonomically convenient, except with the elite controller).
I remember when arcade tournaments were done with the standard controls on the cabinet. These days it seems like anyone can bring a controller box in the design of vomit as long as it is approved. Either not ban anything or supply a standard arcade stick and/or standard gamepad.
Hey this guy gets it (imho). I have played in tournaments on actual arcade cabs standing shoulder to shoulder with my opponent on genuine arcade hardware. Fair playing field. If the arcade machine does not have button bound to dash, three forwards, four extra punch buttons, five extra kicks, two ups, 3k, 3p and a half dozen other macros- how about players play on the same hardware like those Vewlix cabinets? That is a level playing field, we can send a get-well card to those that practiced for a year with the Power-Glove and Guitar-Hero controllers. side note= I'd be fine if Capcom official cabinet had hitbox style set up instead of a stick- would shake things up a bit and perhaps calm people down. I doubt they would put several extra forwards, backs and kicks on an official machine. Happy Gaming!
This should be solved by the devs in their software. If you can "cheat" the game using a different controller, I consider this to be an issue the devs overlooked.
@@Walamonga1313 at least in this case, it is a matter of how the game reads opposite directional commands. There may be a case that will contradict my statement, but I believe it is valid for this matter
I agree. Imagine if FPS games did not properly code their reload and firing so you could fire and reload and throw a grenade at the same time. Poor coding. Capcom has been doing that for years and no one seems to remember.
Hideous? That’s perhaps the coolest hitbox I’ve seen in my life! The white hitbox looks clean and neat for noobies and beginners but his looks like what a final boss would use. Dayyum wish i have one! Still love your videos dude. It’s clear and easy to understand
@@killaken2000 im not sure the rules are posted anywhere. I am pretty sure there is a set standard of rules and venues are allowed to add to them as long as it doesnt deplete the spirit of the game(so to say) i feel that games should have different divisions. there should be modded competition. even competition involving macros. we already know we can restrict things to a point to get a relatively even competition, why have we never explored the other direction? remember when street fighter was first modded to rainbow edition, it is a lot of the reason street fighter is what it is now. This should happen to all games. We should stop limiting ourselves and find where a slightly controlled creativity will take us.
@@PhirstPlays I want a division were 2 ppl program an AI and they go head to head. The only rule is no input reading, not that that would be possible with an external AI at a tournament. Whoever ToDs the other AI first wins.
He was definitely pushing his luck with that insane hitbox.. but let's be honest, this whole thing is only being talked about cuz it was Daigo. I personally really like hitboxes, and at least with the standard layout ones it's only one button per input, only 4 directional buttons and not like 4 up buttons or something, and proper SOCD cleaning too. That makes it more standardized and acceptable, but people will hate no matter what, even the people who've never used hitbox style controllers.
it's not because of daigo but rather the fact that the TO, this came into attention to the FGC as a whole because capcom normally doesn't have clear cut rules for gafro box, this whole thing caught attention mainly with Tekken TO and players trashing how a major allows the gafro box to be legal since alot of Tekken TO doesn't allowed a late cleaning box because of the extreamly unfair advantage it gives to mishima players since it literally makes the difficult execution of EWGF into a joke. as for arguments of it's the same as pad, as far as i know you can't plink direction and OSs on a pad. at least not consistently afaik. we might as well allowed macros if that's the case since hey since that's just a step up from turbo controllers.
If I were in a position to organize a Street Fighter tournament, there would be one arcade cabinet there, and that's it. People could bring their own controllers if they wanted to, but they wouldn't have much luck finding a place on the arcade cabinet to plug them in.
This is why intentional input complexity is pointless. It's only pushing more advanced HARDWARE solutions and gatekeeping people who need accessibility options.
Uh, thought the whole reason to have arcade sticks was so you could have a real arcade joystick like we had playing the SF games back in the 90's at arcades
didnt evo okay a similar controller to diagos but has 2 MORE buttons. the tekken community was in an uproar cause a kid who played tekken for the first time did 22 electrics in a row while a professional said after 15 odd years of playing he could barely do that.
Awesome video. A really in-depth explanation (At least for someone who is not experienced in competitive level) to understand the whole Daigo-Hitbox fuss.. Thank you, dude!
I play with a DS4, I guess I'm screwed. BTW I didn't knew anything about all the shenanigans before I came across this video. I guess they should just correct this in games, so in a way not stopping anyone to use anything.
As long as players have freedom in modifying their own controllers or pads the debate whether there are cheaters or not will never end. The only real solution to this is the organizers (like CombroBreaker) inform the players that they will be using a Joysticks that THEY WILL PROVIDE and nothing else. (like the old days)
5 лет назад+4
It wasn't his Hitbox that was banned, but his Gafrobox. That hitbox in the picture is the one he actually used on the tournament, that hitbox (the company) give to him afterwards.
You probably could do the same with the wheel, the steering wheel controller isn't really turned mid-game because it'd be a bit hard to control precisely, but the thing is played using the D-pad and buttons, so you could hold left, turn the wheel right, and then let go of the button if you really wanted to and it'd probably be way easier to do than it would be on a standard PS controller.
Great explanation. And it makes a lot of sense. My 2 cents: what’s next? Testing players for dipping? Come on it’s a game. If they are worried than make it standard to all players at tournaments to use the same stick, hit box, controller. Problem solved
I think daigo do a "good" thing. He comunicate with the organizer first to know what their reaction. And beside that, because daigo name, many organizer and capcom will do more research about this. Maybe we need more time to know the final decision for the other tourney.
What about keyboard? I play fighting game on keyby and its really easy to play charge characters on kb... Specially on 3rd strike I can perry than quickly go for a sholder tackle...
Mixbox has an option to switch from SOCD cleaning to SOCD last win. But I think the reason for banning Diago's Gafrobox is not strong enough to warrant a ban since you already mentioned about the DS4 having an extra directional analogue stick.
Didn't even know this was an issue until I saw this today. Thanks for all this great info... Now I can casually name-drop 'SOCD' and sound like a proper FGC boss. 😂
On the switch Joy con yeah. But the dualshock Xbox controller and most actual dpad controllers won't work because a dpad is one piece if you push left the right button goes up if that makes sense.
Paul The Pertifier I dont think you get what I mean. Say you push the joy stick left your character goes left, you push your dpad right you go right. You push them both at the same time and boom🤯 I actually do it all the time to super t bag lol
its really annoying really, never actually people complain over hitbox or mixbox in this case. but suddenly daigo has the curiosity to use Hitbox..everyone goes crazy. i have a mixbox, and most people around me called it "Cheatbox" as a joke. but knowing this i feel this can cause many controversy....JUST because of hitbox in general :/
I walked into this video completely uninitiated, not being a fan of fighting games, but researching controller customization and modding. You dropped a heapload of knowledge on me in a way that was instantly accessible and digestible- thank you!
I can hold left and right at the same time on the ps4 dpad alone. It sounds like they banned his controller for not actually breaking the rules if going by "chipset". If that situation occurs I'd say you have to allow it that time and then examine a revision to the rules AFTER the tournament. The last response from Mark Stevens on that Daigo tweet was great
What are your thoughts on the matter? Should DS4's be banned as well?
Gafrobox website: gafro.stores.jp/
More info on the Gafrobox on twitter: twitter.com/Gafrohair
Daigo explaining his buttons:
ruclips.net/video/Du42I4VKNyg/видео.html
Dual Shock 4's are banned in some TO's.
Yes
Or at least until someone finds a way to force it into neutral cleaning with a port or something, but since it's wireless I doubt it because if they did it's the same as banning it out right since I'm pretty sure that it will cause input delay.
I think all controllers should be banned except the racing will
Mr. Sujano what's the need in it? But i am probably not allowed to speak, i play on keyboard
The more I think about this, the more that I think there needs to be hammered out guidelines on what can and can't be on a custom made stick. Back in the USF4 days, Tokido had extra buttons on his arcade stick as well. One was mapped to Up which allowed for instant Ultra 2.
i got banned by using my opponents controller to not block my mix up
xD wtf
Lol,sounds like my Lil brother in umvc3
Thats definitely cheating
Woudln't have expected less from a smash 4 player.
@@bb97979 Oof
Daigo will get banned even if he uses classic Nintendo controller.
HaHAA
Uses a an Atari controller
lmao..nes controller
brogo ram ikr
Nice.
You left out the important part where the gafrobox type Daigo used was allowed previously at tournaments (by other players), and that he specifically contacted TO's (including ones from Combo Breaker) and asked if they had okayed the gafroboxes in the past and they said yes. Although this is Capcom's ruling and not Combo Breaker's, but Daigo did do his homework.
making the entire banning even more BS.
Not a single one of the previous things matter if CB will just ban it regardless.
Then you are missing the point, those other tournaments were small in comparison to a Capcom sponsor Pro Tour venue. You think there are over thousands of dollars on the line, and nobody's going to call bullshit?
Combo Breaker is secretly holding to the rules of DBZ tournaments; "No gods allowed at tournaments".
@@shindean If a thousand buckeroos is gonna get you all triggered then it might be due time to leave the neet cave and get a job.
@@ww-pw6di 1k? You small-time little boy, these tournaments go up to half a million dollars. You can't even count money, get back to your lemonade stand lol
Capcom did not offer any actual reason for why the Hit Box is banned, people are only speculating. Multiple buttons performing the same action has never been banned in the FGC prior, so it's ridiculous to assume this is the reason. Sako uses extra buttons and has for years, if that was the reason the Hit Box was banned then Sako would have been banned. As explained in the video, the pad can also do the same SOCD input for things like Sonic Booms. Nuckledu has been doing it since SF4. Capcom basically banned the Gafrobox because of all of the controversy about the controller and they wanted to look like they were doing something about it, but needed more time to think about what the proper solution should be. Either the ban is going to get reversed, or controller rules are going to get real topsy turvy real quick and they'll need to do things like ban pads, ban Sako's stick, ban mods, ban custom controllers, do all sorts of wacky stuff.
Thanks for watching! I agree with what you're saying. Capcom has potentially created a mess on their hands if the decision isn't reversed.
I agree that's exactly what happened. But I don't think they will change any rules. They will leave everything as is. Avoid rocking the boat. Business as usual.
@randomguy8196 The game foes have SOCD cleaning, and it's a similar method to Daigo's Gafro box. Except instead of it picking the second input of left+right, it instead opts to forward, which gives you a lot of the same results, however because it's tied to the game logic of forward, it basically option selects the direction you input for you. That's how the game natively works.
it's because of the mob mentality. the pressure from people got capcom confused and didn't have the time to actually study it so they just said "ban it. we will look at it later".
It's because hitboxes are flat out superior to fight sticks.
Thing is, beat em up games are closely related to fightstick manufacturer.
I assume the companies put pressure on capcom, at least until they ajusted to the market and sold of most of the fightstick stock while having a hitbox lineup ready.
Usually this takes less then a years.
"If you didn't like the video, leave a like"
some reverse psycology here
He also use hitbox hhhhh lik and don't like same time
That's not "reverse psychology." If it were, that would mean he wants people to leave a dislike if they didn't like the video. "Reverse psychology" is when you tell someone to do or not do the opposite of what you really want them to do or not do.
i never disliked a video so fast lol
New Rules: All participants are required to use a single mouse to play the game. Figuring out how to make it work is not our problem
Addendem: Mice are now banned from tournaments due to the function of the scroll wheel, all participants are now required to hold street fights in front of the building to determine winners
Addendum: Now participant over 150lbs is allowed to participate in the tournament street fight in front of the building, all fighters must weigh in before pools
Addendum: All participants are required to be over the age of 18 to enter the tournament.
Addendum: Capcom will now randomly select one winner from all entrants and no one will fight anyone, in game or otherwise.
Chrono Triggerhappy
That last Addendum... 🤣
The mice would have been banned due to certain mice having additional buttons. So everyone would need to use a specific make.
"How Capcom edged out the UFC for the largest MMA tournament: a Documentary"
That sounds like RNJesus bullshit
Whew...! Thank goodness for that last addendum. My chances to win FGC tournament have now been, what, quadrupled now?
daigo should use wireless buttons attached to his toes.
Lmfao
PoMtL yes
Why? So he can literally dance the dance of death?
@Doodoointernet bruh I made this comment ages ago. Props on you for responding
This guy's voice is so nice, he can explain why paint dries in 8 hours 34 minutes, and I'd happily listen to it in peace.
Ikr? Very well spoken and charismatic. Explains everything well on the top of a great voice. Woof.
@@Doktormustache idk what hes even talking about but I'm still watching lmaooooo
@@Doktormustache It's not the best voice but it's just so well toned, calm, it's great on the ears.
4 months later and I’m etching this for the 40th time and I’m not joking
nope. what i did notice is he does not speak a word of junk in this video, every single sentence is detail that is accurate, to the point, and very clear. great video for novice and pros alike
2:13 The real reason it got banned.
There is a video on Daigo explaining his Gafrobox setup and funnily enough he tells that he actually has 3 up buttons in his setup :kek:
Someone showed me that! I linked the video in the pinned comments
Yeah he knows what he was doing
@@MrSujano no comments are pinned, you're just liking them i.e. no priority comments shows at the top of the comment section.
If you've seen any of his streams hes been going ham learning his new stix, I watched him spend 20 mins counting frames on a fwd dash.
u mean this guy or daigo?
He means Daigo
Be a real man, use a DDR pad for Fighting games.
Lukas Peruzovic ddr pad is the only way to play a game right so I agree all the way
That’s what I’m talking about right there
Nah man, use a rockband drum kit
Donkey Konga drums only
Use a steering wheel combo if you a real G
Daigo gets an hitbox.
Realizing that the input priority would make him more powerful, people cried wolf to get it banned
@The Big Game Theory He said nothing about PS4 vs daigos controller. He is right tho, all contestants should have a level playing field, which means standardized controllers. This just means that in addition to the now banned controller, people using the PS4 one have an actual advantage over people who don't use them. Is that ok? Or is your stance on that just buy one as well?
I think people should be allowed to bring a modded controller as long as it follows the rules because conforming players to the same controller may not allow them to play to their best abilities. In smash ultimate most players on competitive will play with a game cube controller because it’s comfortable for them and it has a little less input lag. If we forced everyone to play on pro controller, we instantly see that players muscle memory go to shit as they can’t make the frame tight inputs needed to tech a hit or parry. They should just have a more defined rule set for modding the controllers.
Frax the majority by a large margin of players uses pad imagine wanting pads banned
i was not aware of the cleaning this was a very informative video thanks!
i dont play fighting games but i found this interesting... youtube at it again, knowing what i like before i even know
You would live core-a videos as well, I recommend him
Jessica Blurg what type of games are you into?
@@kingace1713 all kinds really, was mostly into single player before i got a pc. Now i pretty much just play online multiplayer games. OW, For Honor, Rust.
The game engine should handle SOCD not the controller. So long as a controller is not using macros I don't see a problem. I get wrist ache using an arcade stick so I'd like to get a hitbox eventually.
most games do. the problem is in SFV The socd is whatever button you pressed last, this allows for OSes with SOCD inputs. in other games like guilty gear or UNIST, the socd defaults to neutral when you have multiple buttons pressed. this means that you dont have any oses that a joystick player wouldnt have. there is also the problem that sfv has a bunch of really silly special shortcuts, like f, df, f for dp when most other games require that a z (dp) complete down input before the fwd at the end
The reason why Inital T's racing wheel isn't banned is because people see it as a handicap for it being unorthodox.
Yeah someone busted out a custom guitar hero for a GG tournament
@@SasoSasori- That's hilarious an oddly fitting for GG
steering wouldn’t input anything so in reality he’s just playing on a funky pad
@@schmoopDJ ?
Xionical turning left and right on the steering wheel doesn’t do anything in a fighting game, so in theory he’s just using a funky looking ps4 controller for jokes. core A gaming made a while video on him using the controller
And?..... they banned me for using a 2001 logitech keyboard
You deserved it then 🤣
Keyboard bans are understandable. People can easily use macros on them.
I don't know what the difference is between a keyboard and an arcade stick minus the stick part I mean the buttons are actually closer together making it more comfortable than an arcade sticks
@@bland9876 that's the thing, I've played on both and man oh man they keyboard sure feels way easy. Also macros can be set on keyboard which is obviously cheating
@@neminemii6366 its not very hard to vet a keyboard user and discover if they are using some sort of macro and from your line of argument 8 face buttons should be banned bc people can use them for different actions such as movement or a combination of buttons
Daigo too OP
*_PLEASE NERFFF_*
*capcom* _I gotcha fam_
when was the last time he won anything?
Some random guy right here is a total bandwagon. He doesn't even know how extraordinary Daigo is
@@jinfrozenfire Yeah not a band wagon anything. Daigo sucks at sf5. He doesnt win anymore. Dont care how good he was at third strike or sf4. He cant hang anymore. WOMP womp yuou 09'er
@@octaviogonzalez8794 exactly my thoughts. Thank you for both your gorgeous magnificent Logic and spirit 🙏❤ Respect
@@timscheuermann2554
Booooo
NuckleDu uses the boom charge with 2 sticks on DS4. It makes no sense to ban Daigo’s box.
What the hell is a nuckledu? Nuckle dont
ds4 is the same as DS$.
the debate is not hitboxes not alowed, neither no 2 of the same imput.
But custom made vs arcade controller manufacturers lobby.
In his stream Daigo was talking about how he was preparing for the ban and practicing stick, he’ll probably do ok
he said he would consider using a pad. he feels that he can't improve anymore using the stick. his experience with the hitbox revitalized him.
@@josefernandez4423 Hi man, I'm a Tekken player so I don't know much about why controller, especially hitbox is so significant for him. And as you said that Daigo said he would consider pad. Can you please explain a bit why is stick not suitable for him? What's the limitation in stick? What can you do in Street Fighter that can't be done , or is very hard to perform on a stick as compared to a pad or hitbox. Thanks
@@HATL201 this hitbox would allow instant dashes and faster charges of some moves. It at the same time would skip neutral when going from left to right. The inputs are more instant too as an arcade stick requires logically more movement. Daigo will still be fine tho since he's been using arcade sticks for decades now
@@zakki9491 Alright thanks a lot for explaining man :)
@@HATL201 Economy of Motion. Using a stick requires arm motion, which is slower than fingers.
This is ridiculous how people make a big deal about a hitbox so it doesn't have a socd cleaner neither do stock ps4 controllers nuckledu has been doing this on pad for years and no one cares.
He is not daigo though
@@ninjapandathethird6241 "being daigo" has shit to do with it
Daigo said himself that he had 3 "UP" keys on his Gafrobox, along with another key macro'd to V-Trigger
i really dont understand why people keep praising Daigo for "getting a controller banned just for being Daigo"
Hitboxes are pretty much fancy keyboards when it comes to the key speed and such, but the Gafrobox specifically, is cheating shit
So because daigo is daigo he gets special restrictions placed on him? Bullshit if you ask me
Exactly people just got scared of daigo
people have been complaining about these inputs since 2008. Its just there are so few of them, like myself, that it doens't cause a blip on the radar.
That man said “if you didn’t like the video, leave a like “ 😂
Imma start pulling up with the GameCube keyboard controller to see what Capcom gotta say about that
We find out gc controller has negative input lag
This was about removing Diago and nothing more. The guy complaining the most was using a PS4 controller.
I think everyone should use the exact same standard joystick
I've been using this tech since sf4 on pc keyboard......
The issue was most people in tournaments werent playing on keyboard for tournaments. Hit box got popular so alot of the issues surrounding opposing inputs have started to show up
and still an online warrior 🤣
@@Brynhildrify Nope, i only play vs AI
@enzo gabriel not really , they arent ergonomic enough
MvC3 patched it's left right block problem before UMvC3 came out.
Daigo plays guile. You can keep charging booms while throwing a boom with this setup which is probably why it was banned. The only weird thing is you can do this on a DualShock as well..
Because their names are not DAIGO.
@@PegimampooS
In other words "I'm afraid of daigo and have no interest in actual fairness"
That's all I needed to know about your position
No excessive intro and straight to the point. Liked and subed, ty
I dont think this would be an issue if guile was not daigo's main...if he used zangief or even ryu for example then his hit box will be less effective which would not lead to a ban....Daigo is a superb street fighter player....but he became one of the worlds best players with guile....his moves are very charge heavy which maximizes the abilities of this hitbox and puts other players at a disadvantage....its not fair to ban someone who has figured out how to maximize his/her character
No, thats not true.
Life is not fair and people use their brain for advantage.
Should we ban smart people?
When a beast uses this controller thats when we have problems.
no the problem is misinformation and misunderstanding how these things function and daigo is just proving that no one understands how this works by using it lol also notice how this is only a problem with SFV and not any other fighting game
Thank you sir for explaining such weird controversy.
The stick on a dull shock is no where near as precise as the buttons on a hitbox. The dullshock stick also has trouble returning to neutral. It likes to bounce past which creates extra inputs.
Daigo knows exactly what he's doing with that setup.
Igniting a custom made arcade controllers debate.
It was not banned for being a hitbox, if it was all others would be banned.
Its was not banned for having several inputs.
It was banned for being custom made.
It happens all the time, only this was a famous player.
i'm going to the next tournament using a kinect. Wish me luck.
I’ll join you with my wii rifle
I wouldn't ban the hitbox. He still has to presses buttons. If the hitbox had automated inputs, that'd be cheating. But, having more button options, may be an advantage, but no one is limited from getting one themselves. I'd legalize it.
My perspective exactly. Macros are definitely cheating. Having more button options is an advantage, and anyone can customize their hitbox to have them just like the Gafrobox in question. So TBH, anyone can make this monstrosity to use haha... Legal? Yes. Shady? Somewhat.
9 minute video for 3 1/2 minutes of content. Still got what I needed out of it though, thanks.
If this can be done on a legal controller then it should be allowed on the hitbox as well.
You can use hitbox just fine, unless your name is Daigo.
Its like nba banned dunk for kareem jabbar..
Cool! Your video came up on my stream and I’m so happy it did. Very interesting stuff! Definitely worth a sub! Also, glad to see all the views it’s generating!
Can they use the Kinect to play fighting games?
It is unresponsive and easily interfered with by the opponent, also it is easy for the opponent to read.
NewYorkBlack its the only way I play fighting games
@@doombybbr r/wooosh
I prefer a wii rifle.
A bit of a correction on hitboxes being able to block in both ways in Marvel vs Capcom. If you have a typical custom hitbox where you just wire the D-Pad to four buttons and press both left and right you will get the "last win" behavior on everything as far back as PS2 (in my experience of building them), perhaps even further. The ability to block in both directions comes to wiring one direction to the D-Pad and the other direction to the analog stick.
This is not only something the controllers can do, but I'll say it's something that they can do better than a hitbox. This is because if (for example) you choose to wire your right button to analog right, and the rest of your buttons to everything else, you then loose the ability to throw fireballs or dragon punches in the right direction. You would need extra buttons (like on Daigo's stick) to effectively block in both directions.
I'll also comment that in my opinion SODC (what I refer to as Simultaneous Opposing Direction Cancels, not cleaning) is effectively worthless. There's not a single fighter on PC with native PC controls that I know of which behaves that way. It's because it's a bad experience and does not behave the way a player will expect it to behave. The "last winner" behavior is the way to go and is essential for these controls to remain competitive (not give a competitive advantage) with other controllers.
As a long time keyboard (hitbox) player this is something I hope the community gets over soon. Especially considering the Official Xbox Elite controller, which I think most people would accept as official legal, is able to perform all these techniques even easier than a hitbox or keyboard; and again I'll mention is the exact behavior developer choose to officially support in the PC versions of their games. I'll even insist they choose to officially support in the console versions because as you mention you can do this on a controller anyway (just not ergonomically convenient, except with the elite controller).
This is one of the reasons hitboxes got popular. Some people, including me, just assumed "so good it gets banned at tournaments"
They should just add a “socd cleaner” before the usb input.
I remember when arcade tournaments were done with the standard controls on the cabinet.
These days it seems like anyone can bring a controller box in the design of vomit as long as it is approved.
Either not ban anything or supply a standard arcade stick and/or standard gamepad.
Hey this guy gets it (imho). I have played in tournaments on actual arcade cabs standing shoulder to shoulder with my opponent on genuine arcade hardware. Fair playing field. If the arcade machine does not have button bound to dash, three forwards, four extra punch buttons, five extra kicks, two ups, 3k, 3p and a half dozen other macros- how about players play on the same hardware like those Vewlix cabinets? That is a level playing field, we can send a get-well card to those that practiced for a year with the Power-Glove and Guitar-Hero controllers.
side note= I'd be fine if Capcom official cabinet had hitbox style set up instead of a stick- would shake things up a bit and perhaps calm people down. I doubt they would put several extra forwards, backs and kicks on an official machine.
Happy Gaming!
This should be solved by the devs in their software. If you can "cheat" the game using a different controller, I consider this to be an issue the devs overlooked.
Guilherme Rubio not a dev issue when the hardware is released after the software
"It's the dev's fault that people can use other controllers" lol
@@Walamonga1313 at least in this case, it is a matter of how the game reads opposite directional commands. There may be a case that will contradict my statement, but I believe it is valid for this matter
I agree. Imagine if FPS games did not properly code their reload and firing so you could fire and reload and throw a grenade at the same time.
Poor coding. Capcom has been doing that for years and no one seems to remember.
Came here to say this. The software is the final arbiter. Patch the game and problem is solved.
😂😂😂😂😂
Daigo bringing hit box to ultra instinct levels
That type of hitbox has been around for years now with the player Gafro creating them. Daigo just got one of his to try it out
Hideous? That’s perhaps the coolest hitbox I’ve seen in my life! The white hitbox looks clean and neat for noobies and beginners but his looks like what a final boss would use. Dayyum wish i have one! Still love your videos dude. It’s clear and easy to understand
Arcade sticks with no sticks? The modern marvels of gaming.
I was gonna comment about the dualshock 4.
Good think you brought it up!
nothing should be banned, we should be exploring this as far as we can.
Fuu Chan then ill use a modded automatic wave dash perfect imput controller then
@@killaken2000 im not sure the rules are posted anywhere. I am pretty sure there is a set standard of rules and venues are allowed to add to them as long as it doesnt deplete the spirit of the game(so to say)
i feel that games should have different divisions. there should be modded competition. even competition involving macros.
we already know we can restrict things to a point to get a relatively even competition, why have we never explored the other direction? remember when street fighter was first modded to rainbow edition, it is a lot of the reason street fighter is what it is now. This should happen to all games. We should stop limiting ourselves and find where a slightly controlled creativity will take us.
@@PhirstPlays I want a division were 2 ppl program an AI and they go head to head. The only rule is no input reading, not that that would be possible with an external AI at a tournament. Whoever ToDs the other AI first wins.
He was definitely pushing his luck with that insane hitbox.. but let's be honest, this whole thing is only being talked about cuz it was Daigo.
I personally really like hitboxes, and at least with the standard layout ones it's only one button per input, only 4 directional buttons and not like 4 up buttons or something, and proper SOCD cleaning too. That makes it more standardized and acceptable, but people will hate no matter what, even the people who've never used hitbox style controllers.
pad can literaly do the same stuff.
He said on his own stream that he did it to force TOs to clear up the murky rules atm.
it's not because of daigo but rather the fact that the TO, this came into attention to the FGC as a whole because capcom normally doesn't have clear cut rules for gafro box, this whole thing caught attention mainly with Tekken TO and players trashing how a major allows the gafro box to be legal since alot of Tekken TO doesn't allowed a late cleaning box because of the extreamly unfair advantage it gives to mishima players since it literally makes the difficult execution of EWGF into a joke.
as for arguments of it's the same as pad, as far as i know you can't plink direction and OSs on a pad. at least not consistently afaik.
we might as well allowed macros if that's the case since hey since that's just a step up from turbo controllers.
But arent the pro controllers with the back buttons that can be remapped to anything able do this? And those are allowed.
They aren't? But aren't specifically targeted to pro gamers?
They’re specifically targeted for people with inflated egos who think they should be going pro, but their hardware’s dragging them down.
@@sergioontiveros4984 FPS games mostly, but anyone can tell you skill takes precedent over all
@@sergioontiveros4984 hardware is not equal to skill
@@TheDsRequiem i never said it was i just said its possible.
If I were in a position to organize a Street Fighter tournament, there would be one arcade cabinet there, and that's it. People could bring their own controllers if they wanted to, but they wouldn't have much luck finding a place on the arcade cabinet to plug them in.
This is why intentional input complexity is pointless. It's only pushing more advanced HARDWARE solutions and gatekeeping people who need accessibility options.
😂😂😂😂😂
Whole situation summarized
Everyone - hit box is broken
Daigo - hold my gafrobox
Everyone - he's cheating
mythical orange don’t forget about DualShock
@@tokyopinokyo are dual shocks that op
@@platinumorange1034 they can do the same
Uh, thought the whole reason to have arcade sticks was so you could have a real arcade joystick like we had playing the SF games back in the 90's at arcades
Not whem moneys on the line
didnt evo okay a similar controller to diagos but has 2 MORE buttons. the tekken community was in an uproar cause a kid who played tekken for the first time did 22 electrics in a row while a professional said after 15 odd years of playing he could barely do that.
Awesome video. A really in-depth explanation (At least for someone who is not experienced in competitive level) to understand the whole Daigo-Hitbox fuss.. Thank you, dude!
I play with a DS4, I guess I'm screwed.
BTW I didn't knew anything about all the shenanigans before I came across this video. I guess they should just correct this in games, so in a way not stopping anyone to use anything.
The SOCD cleaning should be implemented on software level, in the game basically to remove any issue about these unfair buffers for charge characters.
This is a really well put together and informative video.
This video is great and very informative (if played on 1.25 speed).
2x speed
Great job explaining the hitbox situation!
I think these tournaments just need to use their own controllers and just give multiple choises for competitors.
People get used to the controller they are practicing with. Even things like how it has worn out can impact you slightly.
thanks for the info bro. straight up. mad love
I had no idea about this happening but I’m interested
As long as players have freedom in modifying their own controllers or pads the debate whether there are cheaters or not will never end. The only real solution to this is the organizers (like CombroBreaker) inform the players that they will be using a Joysticks that THEY WILL PROVIDE and nothing else. (like the old days)
It wasn't his Hitbox that was banned, but his Gafrobox. That hitbox in the picture is the one he actually used on the tournament, that hitbox (the company) give to him afterwards.
He played on his te2 afair
What's shocking to me about all this is that there's a man alive with the balls to tell Daigo he can't do something.
SOCD cleaning?? I’ve only heard of OCD cleaning.
The S stands for 'super'
You probably could do the same with the wheel, the steering wheel controller isn't really turned mid-game because it'd be a bit hard to control precisely, but the thing is played using the D-pad and buttons, so you could hold left, turn the wheel right, and then let go of the button if you really wanted to and it'd probably be way easier to do than it would be on a standard PS controller.
The craziest part of this is that Daigo actually used something other than an arcade stick
Great explanation. And it makes a lot of sense. My 2 cents: what’s next? Testing players for dipping? Come on it’s a game. If they are worried than make it standard to all players at tournaments to use the same stick, hit box, controller. Problem solved
8:40 "If you liked the video, leave a like, if you didn't like the video leave a like"
I guess there is only one thing I can do, then.
I think daigo do a "good" thing. He comunicate with the organizer first to know what their reaction. And beside that, because daigo name, many organizer and capcom will do more research about this. Maybe we need more time to know the final decision for the other tourney.
Wow, I never thought of using a DS4 controller in that way. Now I can abuse that on my brothers. :)
Very informative, and good use of visuals.
What about keyboard?
I play fighting game on keyby and its really easy to play charge characters on kb...
Specially on 3rd strike I can perry than quickly go for a sholder tackle...
No one uses keyboard in competition,thats why it was overlooked
There is player called Keyboard freddy...He is a professional kb player...uses modded keyboard...
You can pretty much use anything (without automated assistance like macros/turbo) so long as you're not a famous personality and don't ask in advance.
Mixbox has an option to switch from SOCD cleaning to SOCD last win. But I think the reason for banning Diago's Gafrobox is not strong enough to warrant a ban since you already mentioned about the DS4 having an extra directional analogue stick.
How on earth is this tournament called "Combo Breaker" yet doesn't feature Killer Instinct in it???
because dragonball nerds can stay dragonball nerds elsewhere :) jk xd
He means Killer Instinct.... the game....
it actually does feature KI
COZ XBLOX EXKLUSIV BIHHH.
NOBODY GAF ABPUT XBOX
Didn't even know this was an issue until I saw this today.
Thanks for all this great info... Now I can casually name-drop 'SOCD' and sound like a proper FGC boss. 😂
When you don't nerf characters but nerf players
I didn't even know what SOCD was before this video. Articulated very well.
I got banned for using my televisions remote control saying it was too OP
Is this a joke?
Van Dagylon no it isn’t he is very serious :^)
Van Dagylon haha I’m only joking
@@ZaryPhotography I actually used to pretend to play fighting games I saw on tv with my tv remote
@@ZaryPhotography dont lie you werent joking
well done on this, concise clear & informative
You actually can push left and right at the same time on a pad too tho, if you play claw you can push the stick one way and the d-pad another ?
On the switch Joy con yeah. But the dualshock Xbox controller and most actual dpad controllers won't work because a dpad is one piece if you push left the right button goes up if that makes sense.
Paul The Pertifier I dont think you get what I mean. Say you push the joy stick left your character goes left, you push your dpad right you go right. You push them both at the same time and boom🤯 I actually do it all the time to super t bag lol
@@PaulDaHeadBanger at 7:30 he explains you can do the same thing with a regular controller
That thing is the pinnacle of function over form
That is not Daigo's layout, it actually has three up buttons. You can find that out at FGC Translated.
Doesn't seem fair if one controller can do it and the other controller can't.
SOOOO I can't bring my own keyboard??
Lol ikr
its really annoying really, never actually people complain over hitbox or mixbox in this case. but suddenly daigo has the curiosity to use Hitbox..everyone goes crazy. i have a mixbox, and most people around me called it "Cheatbox" as a joke. but knowing this i feel this can cause many controversy....JUST because of hitbox in general :/
You can, unless your name is Daigo.
Thats a big NO!
I walked into this video completely uninitiated, not being a fan of fighting games, but researching controller customization and modding. You dropped a heapload of knowledge on me in a way that was instantly accessible and digestible- thank you!
Glad I could help!
Why not just allow two sticks for a stick player?
New drinking game: take a shot every time he says "socd cleaning" alcohol poisoning before the 7 minute mark.
I think you all are just scared Daigo is gonna smash you at everything he plays
Great vid dude. Thanks for the knowledge!
So do we ban keybords to? I dont get the issue and i use a normal tekken 7 fight stick.
I can hold left and right at the same time on the ps4 dpad alone. It sounds like they banned his controller for not actually breaking the rules if going by "chipset". If that situation occurs I'd say you have to allow it that time and then examine a revision to the rules AFTER the tournament.
The last response from Mark Stevens on that Daigo tweet was great
FrankieTheWop no you cant
@@richardsmith3273 no i can't what?
FrankieTheWop press left+right at the same time on the ds4 dpad
@@richardsmith3273 funny, i've done it several times
@@Ryfinius but it will have no input unlike what he is describing
Should set a rule that pad users can only use analog stick or direction buttons . Not both