Psychologist Discusses Karen & Michael Murray's Case (Severe Neglect & Death of their Mother)
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- Опубликовано: 1 июл 2024
- In this video, Dr. Berry discusses the tragic legal case of Karen and Michael Murray. They were charged after the death of their mother. The details of this case are disturbing and may not be appropriate for everyone. This is not a psychological evaluation and is for educational purposes only.
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Full Videos:
Sonja Henry (sister) • Brother & Sister Murde...
Doctor's Testimony: • Tearful Doctor Testifi...
Defense Closing Part 1: • Brother & Sister Murde...
Defense Closing Part 2: • Brother & Sister Murde...
Verdict: • VERDICT: Brother & Sis...
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I think the sister could have inquired more about the condition of her mom. If anyone knows the mental condition of her siblings it would be her. If I knew my mother was in the care of my aging father and two possibly mentally impaired siblings there's NO WAY I wouldn't intervene, no ones hands are clean in this situation.
Exactly!!! She is culpable. If the emt's police etc smelled that mess she did too! If the mother was a skeleton her face would show that as well so the excuse "I only saw her from the neck up" isn't going to fly either. I think she should be charged as well.
@@rennieden6130 That was exactly my impression as soon as she started responding to the questions…
The sister - “OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND”
💯 She never pulled back the covers on the mother so she could see for myself.
All 3 of the children must have hated their mother. Slow or not..😣
this reminds me of those parents who left their daughter on the sofa for so long "sick" that she was fused to the material
Yes same!
i immediately thought omg lacey fletcher!!! whoa, human beings can be so cruel its heartbreaking!! and this is family!!
Thank you for covering this! There is barely any coverage about this case. I’m a healthcare worker and am a little torn about how I feel on this one. Everyone is quick to jump on the sister who doesn’t live there, but we don’t know what she has been through. I’m the family member of my family who went to college and never looked back. We don’t know what she has been through. Then again I don’t know how I fully feel about it becuase she did visit!
@@Karissa214 I feel like the sister who testified moved far away from her family for a reason. Now whether it’s a valid reason (something like abuse) or not valid (embarrassed of her siblings, thought she was better than them) I think there’s a lot more to this story.
Something isn’t right here. I feel like the father was in charge of the decision-making and the two siblings are paying the price since he is deceased. They obviously have mental issues or disorders themselves.
Man this was a tough one as a healthcare worker. I think the brother and sister have some issues and while they should be held accountable for their part I hope they've had evaluations done on them. They look like they need care themselves.
I feel like this could be appealable. It's concerning due to the possibility that they might have some delays.
I think their diagnoses may come up during sentencing or in the pre-sentencing report
I have to look up more on this case, but the clues so far suggest to me that one or both may be neurodivergent and have higher support needs than were being met. Both ASD and ADHD (which can occur together) tend to come with executive dysfunction. The unkempt home could be a symptom of this. Of course, there could also be other mental health issues in play.
@@bcpr9812 from what I’ve seen, their specific diagnoses haven’t been released to the public. Let me know if you find something before the sentencing 🙌🏾
This case is heartbreaking on so many levels. Her suffering is beyond imagination. Denial is powerful enough, even before considering the neurodivergent caregivers and financial insecurity. I was the primary caregiver for both my father and sister, and it is no small task. What a crisis 😢 If only people knew how to get support when they're out of their depth.
Not murder for sure…as a medical social worker this is not uncommon sadly.
What a tragedy. It breaks my heart that the mother suffered so terribly.
Mistrust of the medical and social services system may have been a really big factor here. A medical social worker would have been able to guide them through available services, government and otherwise; however, there is SO much stigma about bringing in a social worker. Thank you for covering this one. This case was gut wrenching and tragic. I hope the children get the help and support they need.
The nurse practitioner Tracy Roman lied on the stand she said she was fine two weeks before the 911 call, how can she get away with lying, that injury was 2 months old and she had been there numerous times, so she lied
Thanks for going over this! And maybe it’s a good example of why we shouldn’t rely on family to care for sick people. :/
Especially if they aren’t great at caring for themselves when everyone is healthy 😞
@@DrPatriceBerry Yep. But even for stuff like disabilities, people lose benefits if they are married, because the assumption is their spouse will do it. But why do we have that assumption? Why do we say “Oh, they have someone, so that absolves us from having to help them?” I don’t particularly care for that!
Honestly when I caught a part of this trial the other day, I didn't know they were in their 40s. They could pass as naive young adults.
They come across child like to me…the state tried to portray them as capable and the defense for Michael seemed to suggest limitations.
40s? Wow!
@@vickimayfieldcamacho8455 I know right! Karen is the oldest and Michael is the youngest. A lot of people assume the sister who testified is the oldest. My heart truly breaks for this family.
I don’t understand how you can think that the sister didn’t know how bd the situation was. Even IF the mother was covered with a sheet she would’ve smelled the fecal matter and urine. She knew how her family lived and had to be aware of the horrific situation. No way she didn’t know!
Dad was a police officer for decades! I believe that once Sheila became non-verbal, the 3 of them decided to write her off, so to speak. Not to mention the Father, Edwin aka Tony, was 71 y.o. with his own health issues, & still working part time as a Security officer. So what were his instructions to his adult children before he would leave for his job?? He was the,"decision-maker," after all.
Sonya didn’t know, but she certainly didn’t attempt to know-even though by her own admission, she didn’t think her family was up to task of taking care of their mother.
Everyone in this family let this woman down. Husband and ALL of her children.
💯
They mustve hated this woman
There is no way she didn't know or at least have suspicions. She didn't want to deal with it
Eldest sister knew. No one in the right mind would just look at there mother. Instead of pulling covers and throughly making sure your mother is doing well. Plus odor. You have to has smelled something that close. She did not want to be bothered.
We had to convince my dad that Mom had to go to the nursing home for proper care. My mom never laid in her waste and we had done our best to care for her. But she nearly choked to death at the dinner table in front of her 7 children (youngest age 4). I later worked as a nurses aide and found out about invalid care. Noone had taught us that care when Mom was at home. I just don't understand how the victim's family could neglect their loved one that way.
This is a sad story. It’s unfortunate no one knew enough to call adult protective services. They would have stepped in even if the family refused. I got my boyfriend out of assisted living because staff were neglecting him and Dr had him over medicated. His family didn’t care. I am a paraplegic and I take full care of him because past aids stole and performed the bare minimum. I’ll get an aide when I need help and when I can’t care for him anymore with help I’ll visit him everyday in a facility.
Also if the house was so bad the sister would stay in a hotel how and why is that ok for your mom to be in? ??!!!! Lets think critically and not emotionally. If the father was retired navy and police they should have had good health care/insurance. Speaking from experience my father was a retired police officer and now is deceased and my mom still gets part of his pension and excellent health care and had excellent coverage when he was alive and retired.
Dr. Berry's on top of all the cases! Thank you for all the coverage!
Thanks for watching 🙌🏾
I think the Dad was responsible to make sure the wife was getting the medical care she needed. How are these “kids” responsible? By the way, this brings up a larger question of legal responsibilities of children to care for their aging parents.
It really does. It sounds like they were apart of her care plan and supposed to be taking care of her. I think the state felt that all the caregivers in the home failed her and sought justice
The kids are responsible from a humane perspective! They saw every day her condition!! Did you hear how her breast was when she was taken into the hospital?!?
Just a hypothetical question:
If your sister has children and one of them is very sick to the point of needing care, and you do nothing about it and that child passes away, do you sit back and do nothing because it’s your sister kid or do you step in and get that child help??
Legally are her kids your responsibility, no, BUT morally and ethically is it your responsibility to do something about it? HECK YES!!
I just don’t understand this thought process or cop out
Why didn’t they have home health? There should be options for families who want to keep their person at home, but need support, education, and extra hands.
It varies state to state. I'm a paid caregiver in PA.
@elizabethmiller819 maybe if they live this way they were suspicious of authorities. You won't get help if you refuse to ask for it, unless someone reports you
Why make excuses for the other sister? The mother had lost at least 150 lbs., probably much more. I'm sure she knew what was going on and didn't care anymore than the others did, including the father. Poor, poor woman.
Those two deserve to rot in prison just like they allowed their poor mother to rot in her bed 💔
Everyone failed this poor woman. Taking care of an elderly parent who is bedridden is not easy but the neglect of their mom is criminal.
Thank you, you have changed my thinking on this.
Thanks for watching! This is truly a heartbreaking case and I’m interested to see what comes out at sentencing.
Caseworkers in the hospital should have talked with them about options for her care if they took her home. Hospice could have been called and it wouldn’t have cost them anything.
It did come out that the brother was on medication because the sister told the detective when they were questioned that he would sleep all the time because of his medication
Tricare and most state retirement insurance coverage does not cover long term care. Medicare only covers a limited amount of long term care and only medically necessary care but not care once no longer requiring rehabilitation care. That leaves out of pocket and/or Medicaid.
Thanks for adding this!
Always boasting to be the best country in the world makes me so angry and sometimes (like here) physically sick!!! What "greatest country" does not take care of All its people?? I cannot fathom with one fiber of my body that America has no free healthcare system!!! If i want to, i can go to the doctor every single day, several times a day if i want to...for free! In Europe its people/humanity over everything!! Medical help, medical care....must be free, in any and all cases!!! Its a non given and i do not understand the USA here!!! 💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔💔WHY?!
I am 63 y/o, divorced from a retired Navy CPT, and meeting the 20/20/20 requirements to keep all possible benefits. If I ever needed it, one of those benefits is the right to a home assistant that would come every day to help with the basics and make sure I am ok. Maybe this family was not aware of this right, or maybe they did not want anyone coming to the house if it was in such unsanitary conditions.
You’re so sweet and kind and gentle. Your kids are so lucky!
Thanks so much 🙌🏾
This is truly sad from beginning 😢 The system failed them on so many levels.
Thank you soooo much for looking into this very sad case!! And I can’t hear your son at all! No worries here! ( and I have 6 loud grandchildren!) Looking forward to more of your videos!
Thanks so much for the kind words and for watching 🙌🏾🙌🏾
Yikes im sorry to be commenting so much today, but no, that is wrong!! The home was always dirty and messy. Sonya testified to this. She would even stay in a hotel because of the state of the house. It was always like this, absolutely not after the dad died! She never knew it any different!
I want to point out, when the sister came to town, it was known and planned. I am sure the conditions were different from the day to day when they knew she was coming to visit. This did not occur from her June visit to August.
I think they did their best to hide the truth from her…that is just the feeling I get. As a cycle breaker in my own family, I have compassion for her need to provide some space and distance. She said that she offered to have her mother closer to her, but her dad refused.
I agree that the family likely always lived in less than sanitary conditions. So much that when the other sister visited many things appeared “normal” to her. The visiting sister (middle child) moved away for college and never lived back in the home again. I don’t blame her.
I don't think the two kids on trial have the mental capacity to fully function as adults. I get strong intellectual disability vibes from them both. I don't see him staring his sister down. I think he is staring at nothing. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't even following what's going on. I don't understand how they were found competent to even stand trial. I could be completely wrong but I just get the feeling that the two kids are still just kids. And the sister who lived outside of the house knew how bad things were and looked down on her family. The whole thing is heartbreaking to me. I don't feel like this is justice.
the two "kids" on trial are 49yo and 43yo. i agree though, they do not seem mentally healthy and def. should not be standing trial for 1st degree murder. i really hope they appeal and get proper council and Help!!!
@@mynameiseve.1I'm well aware of their age. But age doesn't equal ability for everyone. I think they have always been and can only be kids.
@@JessCatlessiprobably
they could have had home health
This is so sad. This mom gave her life to this family and this is how her children and husband treated her in the end. Sadly it’s not uncommon for adult kids not to want to bother with taking care of their dying parents when they’re old. It’s an eye opener for parents for sure. Use that inheritance money for your senior care instead if your adult kids aren’t the type to take care of you in the end.
We need better resources.
Thanks for this. Not sure how I stumbled upon this case, but its the saddest thing I've seen in a long time. I'm sad for Mrs. Murray, she deserved so much better. She herself wanted to be home. Those were her wishes. I think her husband tried to honor them to the best of his abilities. Those which are the abilities of a 71 year old still working and being the only bread winner of the home. So one FT income ever, as Mrs. Murray was a stay at home Mom. Whatever work Karen and Michael had, I can pretty much guess it was part time and through a program. I cant imagine anything more.
For ANYONE to have been in that home over the past 6 to 9 months before her death....Home nurse, or the Sister that distanced herself from the situation. Absolutely NO WAY they didn't know there was a lack of care. Not saying they were aware of the severity, but definitely enough to report, or do something about it. Based on how bad the conditions were in the house, I don't believe for a second that they cleaned that up for any visits. Were talking months of feces, urine, decaying flesh. If your able to live in those conditions, there's something terribly wrong.
I'm heartbroken for the children, unsure how they're even fit to stand trial. I watched the opening arguments, and it took less than 5 min to know something was going on with both Karen and Michael. I get not releasing their diagnosis to the public, but how are we this far, and why does it seem to be a nonfactor? I wish their Father knew what to do sooner, and was here to stand up for his children. So many people failed by so many people.
I’m with you on the brother. There’s something wrong there. He reminds me of my Schizophrenic/schizoaffective brothers when they were too medicated. The stares look blank, the face is just in one position. The swaying, the fidgets with the hair. His eyes keep darting around. To me, this looks like untreated for years schizophrenia, but medicated to calm it down. There may be something else, but he looks fairly catatonic… it’s just hard to say what the affect is coming from.
I hope they both get a thorough psych evaluation. I would’ve had a hard time convicting the two sibling of aggravated. They were dependent on their father, and it was the father’s choice to keep her at home. I don’t think he was aware of what kind of shape she was truly in, but I suspect he didn’t want help either. There are plenty of services that could have stepped in
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙌🏾
I am glad you are speaking on this matter from a professional perspective. I was shocked when these defendants were found guilty of murder. The siblings, especially Michael, did not appear to be competent to be charged with murder! I believed the sister, Sonya's, testimony was disingenuous at best. Not as caring as she should gave been. Kind of out of sight out of mind behavior. Sad case. I was shocked when the brother and sister were found guilty. Heartbreaking verdict. Heartbreaking also was the last days of Mrs. Murray but I don't think the defendants should have been found guilty of murder. They were in over their heads. Michael won't even know he is in jail. So sad.
Michael Murray, has mental and cognitive issues and he is heavily medicated that caused him to sleep alot and sleep late in the day. Majority if the care was on Karen Murray and she was unavailable to do it by herself
I do understand that so many Americans have Financial struggles but the dad was a retired police officer a retired Navy person they never bought a new home according to the sisters testimony they lived in that home all their lives so they were there for 40 plus years
This verdict doesn't seem like justice to me. This is so sad. These two don't seem capable of caring about themselves, much less someone else.
I saw somewhere that the other sister is married with 3 childre. I've also seen people talk about the victim's husband being involved somehow, but can't find any sources.
Yes the victim’s husand was in charge of her care and he died three months after his wife. He likely would have been charged as well if he hadn’t passed.
How is the state not equally responsible for this allowing her to go into the care of people obviously not capable of caring for her. They could barely look after themselves.
It was never brought to the attention of the state. Families are able to care for their loved ones…it sounds like it was never brought to the attention of APS (adult protective services) or her medical team. It sounds like her care significantly got worse the last months of her life but may have been adequate before when she was more mobile and verbal.
i dunno about sonya😬 i lost my mom (my everything and all) when i was 16yo, moved to germany, became an addict to H, was in and out of prison, had a baby in jail and sorted out my life. i am doing very well financially now and well mentally so due to my life experience i am very involved in my free time with the homeless and drug addicts. i like, can and want to help and imo they are very misunderstood, badly treated human beings. when a human body is in decay/rotting, the smell is very intense and very different to an intense urine smell. sonya the middle child was NO WAY oblivious to the state of her mom i am 100% sure!! i am not giving her blame, she did ask to take her mom in, but that statement....i didnt know the severity, NO WAY!!!!!
What about Sony Murray Henry the sister that knew what was going on that testified against them, she knew the condition of her mother and the condition she was living in
This is a very sad case i feel so sorry for the siblings I don't think they knew what to do was overwhelming for for them I think for this case compassion needs to be applied here
I hope you feel better.
The two younger adult children do not seem right. Did they live in a very rural area? It is possible they held some resentment towards their mother? That when her care became difficult they weren't interested.
They might have been living off of parent's retirement so they needed to keep her at home. Between the various policies, there should have been enough to take care of her.
If the two suffered some mental disorders it is sad the homecare nurse did not refer the mother to insurance? They often do annual reports and report to insurance, supervisors.
A lot depends on the state sadly. I had a regular health aide when my illness was worse. It is wrong she only had help every three months? With all of that insurance?
The adults at home had to manage daily expenses but if dad was so controlling? He might not have taught them what needs to be cared for.
I sadly see the older sister might have had disagreements with parents so stayed away. I am surprised she wasn't on her younger siblings about the house?
Though, if they were unresponsive? She had her family, probably work, so couldn't handle the stress of nagging at them.
It is sad though because she must have known those two didn't take care of things well.
I think there are things that didn't come out in trial.
The sister who testified is actually the middle child. Karen is the oldest and Michael is the youngest. I’m not sure if it was rural, survival, or urban. Thanks for your concern, my throat gets dry towards the end of videos lol, I normally keep water at my desk but was all out.
You’re just a sweetheart ❤
These adult children don't seem capable of caring for themselves much less a incapacitated bedridden person regardless of them not having no diagnoses. Dad was the initial caregiver who knew he and his kids weren't capable he was a retired Cop.
.Both Dad and Sis knew but he clearly was a control freak and the eldest had to step back and I don't blame her either it's sad all the way around say what you will those adult children are not alright every bit of business since Dad died I'm sure was taken care of by the eldest
As a veteran, i know that Edwin had VA benefits available to his spouse. There is little or no cost for these services. It seems like money didn't have to be an issue. Was he too proud to ask for VA services? Or too controlling...
I’m getting the feeling that he wanted to care, provide, and keep her home. Sadly, I don’t think they were capable.
Dr. Berry, you are so kind. Try as I might, I can't find it in me to give such grace. I feel the rainwaters knowing that there are folks like you in the world. 🕊 Peace.
He would have had VA benefits + Social Security+ pension from being a cop. He held jobs for decades. There is Medicare for the wife …
Something is just not adding up.
I really feel the other sister could of went in that room and seen about her mother, because i know i would have .
I think they were probably getting benefits for caring for her. That would go away if they asked for help. Also i think the elder daughter probably escaped the authority of her father because her mom protected her. As he got older he probably became more autocratic until the 2 younger were unable to break their childhood training. The sons flat affect may be learnt behavior to avoid abuse
Fairy tale
@@patriciajohnson6434 maybe. But I've seen it happen. Fairy tales are there to remind you where the real monsters are
Why didnt sonya murray henry not notice or look at her mother? Conveniently she only seen her from the neck up? Pleaaaaaseeeee, she knew sh ecould smell the urine
What is going on with Karen’s eyes. Only one eye blinks.?
I think there may be some type of eye, neurological, or some other condition. I’m not sure, I’m thinking it may come up in sentencing
@DrPatriceBerry I asked because Ive only seen this is people with cerebral palsy or on anit psychotic medications. This whole situation is incredibly sad.
smell was prob necrosis
Edwin was a COP!!! He wasnt just in the navy, not that that matters at all!! This is one of the disturbing things about patriarchy....wtf??!! Adults, aka Mom and Dad should have the same say in the family!!! When is this bs gonna stop?? Its so dangerous folks😳Teach your children common sense and strength and courage to speak up loud and a healthy own opinion!! Pleeease!!!! Thanks Dr. B💜!
Thanks for the engagement! I lived in Europe and Japan and know that USA is def not the best country in the world. I’m thankful to be here and yet I know that other countries do things better. This case breaks my heart!
27:55 how much weight did she lose??
@@specialkl4792 I’ve seen in the comments it was 150 but I didn’t hear exactly how much.
I do wonder what their IQ was too, where they mentally fit to be carers? How much did they understand the complex needs of such a patient? This seems horrific but so preventable and responsibility\culpability on just these 2 seems wrongly weighted. Are either Michael or Karen developmentally challenged? It is possible to hold a job with a developmental deficit, they would’ve been able to help around the house etc too but would they have been able to recognise the care deficit for themselves?
Their IQ and ability could come into sentencing. I hope a full psych eval is ordered…they may also appear more impaired than they actually are and be on strong medication. I’ve seen people in psych facilities on very strong meds.
@@DrPatriceBerry good point, although they do hint that Michaels care role was pretty much physical, I worry that as the result was so heinous, the fact that the jury needs to find someone responsible will mean their capability to recognise the problem, may be overlooked. American healthcare is so different than in Australia, here professional care, even at home, would’ve been supervised by the state, then if professionals neglected their duty of care, criminal culpability would clearly fall on those paid to make sure the client was looked after and to support the family, rather than the family itself. We have had an horrific case where the care was not provided as it should be here in my state, but those held responsible were the paid carer and the company supervising her care as well as our state gov, who it was decided was not doing enough to monitor what their care providers were doing either. The actual carer was charged with murder/ negligence as well as the company employing her to do the job. If I were to want to take a non verbal, health compromised patient home to care for them myself, it would require assessment by health care professionals of both my home and capabilities, then they would provide aids like lifters, and other care equipment such as a hospital bed or air mattress to relieve pressure sores, plus a district nurse to oversee medications at home before that could happen. Plus rehabilitation plans etc. My best friend died of cancer at home in her own bed but we had daily nurse visits to oversee her palliative care at home and they always checked on how we were coping too. The concept of letting a family where the patient seemed to be the major carer before her strokes cope at home by themselves, with a three monthly checkup, when she was such required such a high level of care, is so incredibly foreign to me.
A lot of people failed this poor woman. I don'/t CARE what the dad wanted or thought!!! If someone was in the home (home health aid) and saw and smelled what everyone else did and saw these kids. It is clear something is not right with them. I, in good conscience could not sign off on she's ok and her care is adequate.
To my understanding home health care doesn't come every 3 months she might have had a social worker assigned to her from the hospital but home health care doesn't come every 3 months
Along with the husband, I believe the state failed Mrs. Murray making Karen and Michael the scapegoats.
Their father was head of the household so you going to punish the disabled adults children severely. Where they trained as healthcare workers? No visiting nurse?
Had to stop listening as was feeling so nauseous 🤢 when you started reading the condition of the lady’s body - trigger warning at the beginning would have been helpful 😢
Do you have an email address that I can email you, I have reached out to the Innocence project of Tennessee and others for help with these two cases