Thomas another great unbiased review, I listen & watched all your info. And payed attention to the charts, plus watched your video with “Bob” on game improvement irons, then went for club fitting tested Callaway TaylorMade Mizuno & Titleist irons, to my surprise Titleist T300 irons came out best on feel, distance & dispersion and orders a set 7iron to 48deg wedge with graphite shafts (2deg up, +1”) i am a senior golfer off 9hcp and never played Titleist clubs, Thanks for reviews and thank Bob for all his shots, Dickey
Love your channel! Here is a suggestion. It would be interesting to repeating this test in a few weeks with a golfer who really struggles with his /her irons on the course and see what the overlap looks like in dispersion and numbers? I'll bet there are at least a few hundred average golfers within a 50 mi radius of your store who come in for fittings every day that your fitters can tell you fit in the GI category! ;)
Man I’d like to see a video with someone like myself who plays 5 x a year, but is ready for a new set of irons get fitted. Get average people with inconsistent swings and speeds. That video would sell clubs and would be the true test. Love this channel
I'll tell you what.. I haven't really gotten into the game until this year.. I have old clubs from early 2000s. Played a couple times a year before this year. I decided it was time to start upgrading my gear since I want to play more. Went and got fitted for a g425 driver and a new (used) putter. WOW. I'm not a great golfer by any means but they make a huge difference. If you want to play more, have dated clubs, and can spend the money.. Definitely go get fitted or get some new clubs. They won't make you a "better golfer" but they will help you play better and enjoy the game more!
My 2021 Titleist TSI3 driver is more forgiving, straighter and longer by 40 yds than my 2014 Ping G25 driver. Better in every way. Vs a 2000 or 2005 driver? 🤣
Love my T300 irons great feeling clubs ,distance are very consistent and shots hold the greens and stop on the greens better than any game improvement iron I have tried or used. Titleist hit it out of the park with the T300 👍
Great job, thanks. I just got my custom Wilson D9 irons and love them, so much better than my Cobra T-RAIL irons were! By the way I got the D9 irons and traded the T-RAIL from 2nd Swing!
@@2ndswing 2nd Swing Golf has ALWAYS given me the best deals on New and used clubs and the BEST TRADE-INS PROGRAM in the business? THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOU DO FOR GOLF.
If you really want to focus on the imperfect shots, then you should remove all the well hit shots, even if the result is that you only have one or two poorly hit shots. By leaving some well hit shots in the mix, you are distorting the stats. You really need to hit far more shots, in order to get a sufficient data set. What we need to know is what happens when the contact is 10mm away from the sweet spot. Also, the players that these clubs are aimed at, probably aren't swining at 88 mph. This will have a huge impact on spin, carry and shot shape.
Great to see this kind of video, but it's not much use when the person hitting the ball is a scratch or near as golfer. Need a 16 hcp or so hitting the clubs.
The results would be as inconsistent as a high handicapper just isn't reliable and it will have no real meaning. By having a good ball striker who is consistant will show the true nature of the irons. However, as with any iron review, if you put a different golfer in there, you will get different results.
I just got fitted with PING G425 with graphite Alta CB slate shaft. I found them so easy to hit and they were going straight. I’m 53 and could hit them 180 yds and ball speed of 120. Also hit the T300s, like the irons but didn’t feel they were the right ones for me.
I love this channel, but........ wouldn't it be better to actually use golfers that fit these kind of clubs to see and how they will actually react to their slower swing speed and hits being all over the face? My swing isn't close to Thomas's, so I know the clubs will react to my swings and contact all over the face way differently than a strike literally being one dimple off of center and it being called a miss hit, lol. Is it ego that Thomas has to be the one to hit almost everything, unless it's a fitting video for someone? C'mon guys, we would like to be able to learn from these kind of videos, we already know that Thomas is a machine!
Thomas, sorry but you really don't qualify as a player to be mis-hitting shots, average players don't mishit shots that still fly 90 plus percent of the full carry and are only 10-15 yards offline, find a high (10-18) handicapper to conduct this test with to really see which of these clubs is providing the better help on mishits
Thomas’s test and swing is akin or close to robot testing. What can show up are the tendencies of each club. From that one can draw some conclusions on relative forgiveness on each of the tested clubs.
Why didn't you use the SIM2 Max OS, and the Mavrik Max. If you're looking for the most forgiving set of irons why not select each brands most forgiving set of irons to test? I have watched a similar test on another RUclips channel and frankly I trust their results more.
If you hit the ball all over the clubface, you will get different fitting results on any given day. They should use a mid-capper on two different days just so people will stop asking for it.
I know this video is about forgiveness with clubs, but I'm always amazed by how inefficient my swing is by comparison. I can swing at 88 mph with these clubs on a trackman indoors, but 125 BS is a good, out of the middle shot for me.
What are the exact lofts on the 7 iron of g425 and t300. Would it be fair to say that with a slower speed swing you want the most height you can get the mist spin you can get so that the ball runs out the least. You agree? Much appreciated
Tremendous vid!!!! Is the Mitsubishi fubuki MV 50 48 grams an upgrade charge? I was fitted yesterday and this lite shaft A flex did best for me. Got spin to Ave of 5500. I assume I need to learn to compact the ball better to get that spin rate at 6000? My ball speed is about mid 90s swing speed about mid 70s. I am in my mid 60s . Do you agree with this shaft choice just by what I have said ? Much appreciated. Best regards
@@2ndswing thanks I just went and got the vokey Sm8 52 54 and 56°. And an new Maverick driver with an extra stiff shaft .... dont tell my wife. I had to tell someone though hahaha
Just couldn't bag a game improvement iron due to looks alone. I got the srixon z585s this year and they are amazing, great looks with forgivness and distance
Sim 2’s are less bulky than speedzones but speed zones are cheaper and maybe more forgiving. Sim 2’s are really good feeling but can burn a hole in your wallet.
Not really a "test" if you don't draw any meaningful conclusions. More of an 'intro' (advert) to the various clubs. And I agree with the consensus in that a high handicapper doing the hitting would have interesting.
Great to see you guys and what you do for golf . I need some advice on irons i bought locally. Its old i think but in immaculate condition. Just want to ask your opinion. It is Srixon i601 with regular shafts. looks almost new.
It appears that the spin from all of the shots is extremely low from 3500-4500 and the smash factor is exceptionally high (driver range) on almost shots which increases the carry probably 20-40 yards or so. Typical range is around 6000-7000 spine and mid 1.3’s for a 7 iron. What do you think caused such a low spin rate and high smash? It seems misleading to be hitting 210+ yard carries when the spin and smash is way out of the typical range for a high level player swinging at those speeds. Is this a launch monitor issue? What would you expect to see for carry on the course? New to the launch monitor community and trying to better understand how my simulator game compares to the course! Love the video, just ordered some T300’s!
Interesting .. the most underrated and less popular Irons are the Best .. i still play Wilson D7 and looking forward for my new D9 Setup .. excellent Clubs with a huge price- performance ratio .. And if you have a look on the Wilson Staff CB Irons for better/ low handicap players .. . the look of that irons are amazing .. But i play Cobra F8 Driver and Fairway Woods instead of the Wilson, cause i think there are better Woods than the Wilson out there .. Thank you for the detailed comparison of all the GI Irons out there !!
I swing my 7i (i210 - 31.5 degrees) at 85 mph and get 170 yds of carry. You are swinging at about 88 mph and getting 200 yds of carry. How is swinging 3 mph faster getting you an additional 30 yds over what I get?
I can shoot most 7 irons (taylormade sim2 max, callaway mavrik, others) about 165 yards with only 65 mph. The contact with the ball is way more important than the swing speed.
10mins through the video and I'm realizing this isn't a good test. For one, he's an experienced golfer who consistently hits the middle of the face and secondly, he's only hitting 8 balls with each club. That isn't enough to get a good sample size for a test like this. Fatigue plays a role in miss hits.
Thanks for watching Noah! Of course, none of our tests are perfect. And of course fatigue plays a role in mis-hits. We use a sample size similar to the amount of shots hit during our award-winning Tour Van club fittings.
PING G425 and T300 have been very consistent in the fitting bay for our customers for forgiveness, but it will really come down to the players preference. They all are great! - Thomas
Sample size isn’t anywhere near large enough to draw any meaningful conclusions about distribution. The pings would be my pick from these. The maveriks and other strong-lofted irons are just fooling you into thinking you have more distance than you do and giving you gapping issues with your wedges.
Dispersion is going to be player dependent and will rely heavily on how well each shot is hit. That's why it's important if your interested in these clubs to complete a fitting and compare yourself. Certain golfers deliver the clubs differently than others for some golfers there may be gapping issues but for others they could be the perfect fit - Thomas
I'm sorry, how is that an informative test? Hits should only be counted if they are struck outside of the centre half inch circle almost all of your bad hits are still very much inside and regarded as very good strikes by higher handicappers to which these irons are aimed at.
Using yourself as the test subject for bad shot forgiveness is the equivalent of you personally testing out child car seats--you don't fit these clubs even on your "bad" shots
Great observation Ryan! If you go back in time, the strategy for game improvement has always been to move weight out and around the sweet spot which is opposite physics of a muscle back. Cast cavity backs are the clubs that really started the GI trend. Names like Spalding and early Cobra oversize. TaylorMade burner. All used the same idea of mass movement around the perimeter of the face.... Today the amount of technology marketing hype is absurd. Marketing mangers are running out of terminology.... ie. Ping's "Spinsistency" ? With the new face technologies hollow forged faces, the sound and feel have been traded off hence all sorts of cavity fillers and ways to make faces thin help add to the ugliness. The welding process almost guarantees a thicker top line! This evolved to a rush to figure out how to do what frankly a really simple forged cavity back can do just as well with jacked up lofts and some tungsten in the sole / perimeters. Nice looking can still be done seen with Sub70 699 irons as well as Mizzy JPX line that look and feel great. It would be better for folks to PRACTICE with a forged cavity back IMHO on the range than chase "Game Improvement" irons in the store looking for a miracle.
Great one again! Absolutely the best golf channel at the moment
Thank you so much!!!
Thomas another great unbiased review, I listen & watched all your info. And payed attention to the charts, plus watched your video with “Bob” on game improvement irons, then went for club fitting tested Callaway TaylorMade Mizuno & Titleist irons, to my surprise Titleist T300 irons came out best on feel, distance & dispersion and orders a set 7iron to 48deg wedge with graphite shafts
(2deg up, +1”) i am a senior golfer off 9hcp and never played Titleist clubs, Thanks for reviews and thank Bob for all his shots, Dickey
Love your channel! Here is a suggestion. It would be interesting to repeating this test in a few weeks with a golfer who really struggles with his /her irons on the course and see what the overlap looks like in dispersion and numbers? I'll bet there are at least a few hundred average golfers within a 50 mi radius of your store who come in for fittings every day that your fitters can tell you fit in the GI category! ;)
They never do that. This guy hits the ball beautifully.
Man I’d like to see a video with someone like myself who plays 5 x a year, but is ready for a new set of irons get fitted. Get average people with inconsistent swings and speeds. That video would sell clubs and would be the true test. Love this channel
I'll tell you what.. I haven't really gotten into the game until this year.. I have old clubs from early 2000s. Played a couple times a year before this year. I decided it was time to start upgrading my gear since I want to play more. Went and got fitted for a g425 driver and a new (used) putter. WOW. I'm not a great golfer by any means but they make a huge difference. If you want to play more, have dated clubs, and can spend the money.. Definitely go get fitted or get some new clubs. They won't make you a "better golfer" but they will help you play better and enjoy the game more!
@@GageDrums that’s exactly what it’s all about for me. Great advice!
My 2021 Titleist TSI3 driver is more forgiving, straighter and longer by 40 yds than my 2014 Ping G25 driver. Better in every way. Vs a 2000 or 2005 driver? 🤣
next time get an average joe to do the test. it would be better to see the difference.
Love my T300 irons great feeling clubs ,distance are very consistent and shots hold the greens and stop on the greens better than any game improvement iron I have tried or used. Titleist hit it out of the park with the T300 👍
This was a great video, thank you!
Great job, thanks. I just got my custom Wilson D9 irons and love them, so much better than my Cobra T-RAIL irons were! By the way I got the D9 irons and traded the T-RAIL from 2nd Swing!
Very nice! Taking advantage of our trade in! Glad you found a set that fits you well!!! Thank you for watching!
@@2ndswing 2nd Swing Golf has ALWAYS given me the best deals on New and used clubs and the BEST TRADE-INS PROGRAM in the business? THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOU DO FOR GOLF.
@@greghoutchens2395 Thank you so much for your support Greg!!
Think we need to spin him around and blindfold him to mimic high handicap hitters that use these clubs. I'm in that group 😁
And a few drinks wouldn’t hurt either 😁
If you really want to focus on the imperfect shots, then you should remove all the well hit shots, even if the result is that you only have one or two poorly hit shots. By leaving some well hit shots in the mix, you are distorting the stats. You really need to hit far more shots, in order to get a sufficient data set. What we need to know is what happens when the contact is 10mm away from the sweet spot. Also, the players that these clubs are aimed at, probably aren't swining at 88 mph. This will have a huge impact on spin, carry and shot shape.
I own many iron sets Mizunos, Titleist, Callaways, Cleveland BUT Wilson D7s is by far and away miles ahead (pun intended), no contest
Great to see this kind of video, but it's not much use when the person hitting the ball is a scratch or near as golfer. Need a 16 hcp or so hitting the clubs.
Thank you for watching!
Perfect video thank you and keep up the great work!
Thank you for watching!!
I think this test would be more relevant if you got a real high handicap golfer, or maybe hit left handed.
The results would be as inconsistent as a high handicapper just isn't reliable and it will have no real meaning. By having a good ball striker who is consistant will show the true nature of the irons. However, as with any iron review, if you put a different golfer in there, you will get different results.
Lol impact location mishit 6mm off center. For this category you need someone with a high handicap hitting shots to get relevant data
I just got fitted with PING G425 with graphite Alta CB slate shaft. I found them so easy to hit and they were going straight.
I’m 53 and could hit them 180 yds and ball speed of 120.
Also hit the T300s, like the irons but didn’t feel they were the right ones for me.
Ping is nice, bit ugly.
I love this channel, but........ wouldn't it be better to actually use golfers that fit these kind of clubs to see and how they will actually react to their slower swing speed and hits being all over the face? My swing isn't close to Thomas's, so I know the clubs will react to my swings and contact all over the face way differently than a strike literally being one dimple off of center and it being called a miss hit, lol. Is it ego that Thomas has to be the one to hit almost everything, unless it's a fitting video for someone? C'mon guys, we would like to be able to learn from these kind of videos, we already know that Thomas is a machine!
You ever do any testing with the new PXG 2021 0211 irons?
feel like the sim 2 was sorta ignored...? it had the tightest grouping with almost no outliers. Thing was like a sniper.
Would you guys buy the sim2 max? Found some in great condition for a good price. Trying to get my first set of real irons.
Great work! How about adding PXG gen4 Iron?
Thomas, sorry but you really don't qualify as a player to be mis-hitting shots, average players don't mishit shots that still fly 90 plus percent of the full carry and are only 10-15 yards offline, find a high (10-18) handicapper to conduct this test with to really see which of these clubs is providing the better help on mishits
Thomas’s test and swing is akin or close to robot testing. What can show up are the tendencies of each club. From that one can draw some conclusions on relative forgiveness on each of the tested clubs.
Why didn't you use the SIM2 Max OS, and the Mavrik Max. If you're looking for the most forgiving set of irons why not select each brands most forgiving set of irons to test? I have watched a similar test on another RUclips channel and frankly I trust their results more.
If you hit the ball all over the clubface, you will get different fitting results on any given day. They should use a mid-capper on two different days just so people will stop asking for it.
Results are always going to be player dependent some players hit certain irons way better than others - Thomas
I know this video is about forgiveness with clubs, but I'm always amazed by how inefficient my swing is by comparison. I can swing at 88 mph with these clubs on a trackman indoors, but 125 BS is a good, out of the middle shot for me.
Which one was the most forgiving???
Great video. Just order a set of Rad Speed Irons in the Matte Black
Very nice! Thanks for watching!
What are the exact lofts on the 7 iron of g425 and t300.
Would it be fair to say that with a slower speed swing you want the most height you can get the mist spin you can get so that the ball runs out the least. You agree?
Much appreciated
Tremendous vid!!!! Is the Mitsubishi fubuki MV 50 48 grams an upgrade charge? I was fitted yesterday and this lite shaft A flex did best for me. Got spin to Ave of 5500. I assume I need to learn to compact the ball better to get that spin rate at 6000?
My ball speed is about mid 90s swing speed about mid 70s. I am in my mid 60s .
Do you agree with this shaft choice just by what I have said ?
Much appreciated. Best regards
Meant to say these results were with the 7 iron
Just ordered the D9s. 2 days have never felt longer haha
We know that feeling for sure! Congrats on your new set!
@@2ndswing thanks I just went and got the vokey Sm8 52 54 and 56°. And an new Maverick driver with an extra stiff shaft .... dont tell my wife. I had to tell someone though hahaha
Just couldn't bag a game improvement iron due to looks alone. I got the srixon z585s this year and they are amazing, great looks with forgivness and distance
Cool.
Can you share the data spreadsheet?
why did you take the callaway mavrik and not the callaway mavrik max? The mavrik (without the max) isn't really a cavity back iron...
Currently deciding between speed zones and Taylor made sim max 2’s. Thoughts?
Sim 2’s are less bulky than speedzones but speed zones are cheaper and maybe more forgiving. Sim 2’s are really good feeling but can burn a hole in your wallet.
Not really a "test" if you don't draw any meaningful conclusions. More of an 'intro' (advert) to the various clubs. And I agree with the consensus in that a high handicapper doing the hitting would have interesting.
What iron manufacturer produce hybrid looking irons
Cleveland & Cobra offer hybrid looking irons. Yes those models are extra forgiving. - Thomas
Would still like to hear which one you personally liked the best
@t bone fisher no doubt
Great to see you guys and what you do for golf . I need some advice on irons i bought locally. Its old i think but in immaculate condition. Just want to ask your opinion. It is Srixon i601 with regular shafts. looks almost new.
It appears that the spin from all of the shots is extremely low from 3500-4500 and the smash factor is exceptionally high (driver range) on almost shots which increases the carry probably 20-40 yards or so. Typical range is around 6000-7000 spine and mid 1.3’s for a 7 iron. What do you think caused such a low spin rate and high smash? It seems misleading to be hitting 210+ yard carries when the spin and smash is way out of the typical range for a high level player swinging at those speeds. Is this a launch monitor issue? What would you expect to see for carry on the course? New to the launch monitor community and trying to better understand how my simulator game compares to the course! Love the video, just ordered some T300’s!
Interesting .. the most underrated and less popular Irons are the Best .. i still play Wilson D7 and looking forward for my new D9 Setup .. excellent Clubs with a huge price- performance ratio ..
And if you have a look on the Wilson Staff CB Irons for better/ low handicap players .. . the look of that irons are amazing ..
But i play Cobra F8 Driver and Fairway Woods instead of the Wilson, cause i think there are better Woods than the Wilson out there ..
Thank you for the detailed comparison of all the GI Irons out there !!
would of loved to see the big bertha b21 in the test
We will add this to our list!
I swing my 7i (i210 - 31.5 degrees) at 85 mph and get 170 yds of carry. You are swinging at about 88 mph and getting 200 yds of carry. How is swinging 3 mph faster getting you an additional 30 yds over what I get?
Not all 7 irons Have the same loft, even within the same manufacturers.
Settings on the launch monitor (elevation, temp, barometrics, etc), they're all options as settings on the computer.
I can shoot most 7 irons (taylormade sim2 max, callaway mavrik, others) about 165 yards with only 65 mph. The contact with the ball is way more important than the swing speed.
So what is the best for a bad golfer ? Plays very little but needs to be ok for charity tours
You are in the right category with all these irons. PING G425, Titleist T300 & Callaway Mavrik would be my top 3 - Thomas
T300 seems to be best overall performer
I wish you would have answered the question.
Lol....I must admit I was looking for a definitive answer as well. Lol lol
@@jzm5014 I think the T300 all rounder for forgiveness
@@stephengarner4428 Thank you for your help!
@@jzm5014 titleist also do the t400 but the top line is horrendous! They look too forgiving to me!
@@stephengarner4428 Gotcha lol....I'm going to go look at irons this weekend
Wouldn't thes best game improvement option be to get lessons and put in work at the range?
Definitely don't neglect the technique and lessons will help with that. You get back what you put in - Thomas
Great video as always for comparisons. Might be good to set the loft angles all the same to see how they perform apples to apples
Should’ve toss in the PXG 211 irons
What about the xxio
I hate how no one has the balls to do a conclusion and single out “ the best “ even though it’s in every title of every video.
10mins through the video and I'm realizing this isn't a good test. For one, he's an experienced golfer who consistently hits the middle of the face and secondly, he's only hitting 8 balls with each club. That isn't enough to get a good sample size for a test like this. Fatigue plays a role in miss hits.
Thanks for watching Noah! Of course, none of our tests are perfect. And of course fatigue plays a role in mis-hits. We use a sample size similar to the amount of shots hit during our award-winning Tour Van club fittings.
From ur test those 7 which is forgiving
PING G425 and T300 have been very consistent in the fitting bay for our customers for forgiveness, but it will really come down to the players preference. They all are great! - Thomas
Sample size isn’t anywhere near large enough to draw any meaningful conclusions about distribution.
The pings would be my pick from these. The maveriks and other strong-lofted irons are just fooling you into thinking you have more distance than you do and giving you gapping issues with your wedges.
Dispersion is going to be player dependent and will rely heavily on how well each shot is hit. That's why it's important if your interested in these clubs to complete a fitting and compare yourself. Certain golfers deliver the clubs differently than others for some golfers there may be gapping issues but for others they could be the perfect fit - Thomas
most of average golfer would prefer remove the bad shot, not the good shot for this test.
Got to stop moving the pointer in circles. Gave me a headache trying to follow your data points.
A crime you didn't put in Srixon zx4's
Curious to know if you used the same shaft for each iron head...?
I'm sorry, how is that an informative test? Hits should only be counted if they are struck outside of the centre half inch circle almost all of your bad hits are still very much inside and regarded as very good strikes by higher handicappers to which these irons are aimed at.
How can you test game improvement irons if your a low handicap golfer. This test is meaningless.
You should of lt the camera guy do the tests
Stay tuned we have had our camera guys hit a few shots for us as well - Thomas
Using yourself as the test subject for bad shot forgiveness is the equivalent of you personally testing out child car seats--you don't fit these clubs even on your "bad" shots
Does every game improvement iron have to be so ugly?
I totally get what your saying but think they have gotten alot better then the past. I may be biased but think the JPX takes it in the looks.
Great observation Ryan! If you go back in time, the strategy for game improvement has always been to move weight out and around the sweet spot which is opposite physics of a muscle back. Cast cavity backs are the clubs that really started the GI trend. Names like Spalding and early Cobra oversize. TaylorMade burner. All used the same idea of mass movement around the perimeter of the face.... Today the amount of technology marketing hype is absurd. Marketing mangers are running out of terminology.... ie. Ping's "Spinsistency" ? With the new face technologies hollow forged faces, the sound and feel have been traded off hence all sorts of cavity fillers and ways to make faces thin help add to the ugliness. The welding process almost guarantees a thicker top line! This evolved to a rush to figure out how to do what frankly a really simple forged cavity back can do just as well with jacked up lofts and some tungsten in the sole / perimeters. Nice looking can still be done seen with Sub70 699 irons as well as Mizzy JPX line that look and feel great. It would be better for folks to PRACTICE with a forged cavity back IMHO on the range than chase "Game Improvement" irons in the store looking for a miracle.
Yes.