that minced surface on the flywheel really just boosts my theory that most Ironhead reliability problems are caused by people not correctly assembling them correctly or within tolerance
That is some outstanding work my friend! You make it look almost do-able even for me but I guess there's a bunch of stuff you can't possibly show in a video. Anyway it's fun watching and I learn a lot too. Thanks!
I’ve had several Ironhead motors rebuilt since the mid ‘80’s but never saw a mechanic go through the process of truing up a set of wheels. A really nice video to see as I’m getting ready to put a ‘68 XLCH motor back together
I just picked up a truing stand. Set up a shovelhead crank using used parts from my stash to practice with. Your video helped alot. Got it under a thousandth in about an hour. Thanks and keep the videos coming.
The techniques you implemented in your video are great. This type of knowledge needs to be preserved so younger generations can have this and do rebuilds the right way.
I have yet to watch a video that made this process, this black art, look easy. I am about one C-hair away from reassembling my 1985 Ironhead-- from this very point forward. Thank you for your contribution, investment, to the art of harley mechanics.
I just finished assembling my flywheels with new s&s rods and crank pin etc. made sure to flip my thrust washers and steak them in the flywheels. Crank pin nuts are at full torque but I have 0.028" end play between the con rod big end boss and the thrust washer measured with a feeler guage. I believe book says 0.006-.010 what am I missing?
You're probably not missing anything. Crankpins are not identical and some seat less or more deeply in the taper than others. Thrust washers are available in different thicknesses. 23972-72, .062 thick and 23972-72B, .067 thick. A little extra side to side in the rods probably won't hurt anything.
Could someone please explain how the flywheel doesn’t go right back out of spec as soon and the downforce from the pistons is applied when the engine is running? It just seems like it would easily move.
The down and up force is captured and distributed within the rotational movements of the bearings and flywheel mass. The full directional force never really bottoms out so to speak since it is rotational In motion/design. At least that is my theory. I guess the best way to test it is to correctly balance/true the flywheels and run the motor under load in a road test. Then disassemble the motor and recheck the flywheels for runout. It certainly would be very interesting to see the results. Another Great video Gary.
Great video. I’m a dirtbike rider and need to do some crank truing. Is that crank holding stand you’re using a custom tool? If not, where can you buy those?
It's called "pinch & bow". I don't know why people don't indicate both shafts at the same time. It makes seeing the overall picture quicker and easier.
Because you need two indicators equals extra $$$$. And, personally I can't watch two indicators at once. Takes but a few seconds to move the indicator from one side to the other...
@@IronHeadCycle ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,many guys from back in the day were successful and fine using the sweeping indicators that came with the Rowe truing stand ; I also bought the extra long center ; for checking shaft runout...............A heavy Lead hammer is needed ; making one is no fun...............
wow......were did they grow you? hello my name is Richie. i want to thank you ssssssoooooo much for your video. I HAVE NEVER seen such a detailed, explained youtube video. in my life, no joke. Let alone on FLYWHEELS!! this is gold!! subscibed, in a sec! I have a 2005 95' 15 anniv. fatboy, my indy put a S&S fly wheel in my bike. unfortunitley he read the indicator over a phone video and it read .002 out of the crate, is that ok??? i never seen anyone like youself, who is so tedious on detail !! i love it, thats how i am -DETAIL!! ty in advance my good man. ps bike runs good, but sounds like am old 350 chevy, ya know lol. I do have Andrews g 37 gear drive, so im sure that sounds contributes?? am i right? ty again! pss...my run out is now .005. i do not do burns out, but i do get on her!
I don't have a 2005 manual. but I do have a 2007 manual, the book says the limit is .002 for 2007, so it is probably the same for 2005. Good luck with your project...
When I've seen this done before Ive always seen the crank pin torqued all the way first and then the alignment done, since as youve shown when you do it in stages it tends to walk out. Is there a benefit to torquing in stages and truing in between each stage or were you doing that for demonstration purposes?
Good question. The Harley manual is vague. It just seems to make sense to me to bring them true in stages. Yes, they do walk out a bit and must be brought back in. Yes, the final few smacks are at very nearly full torque.
Greetings From Siberia . As always I hope the two of you are doing well and that the koala Bear build is coming along without too much frustration . Another first class video production from the crew at I.H.C. world headquarters . What happened to the mic guy?, did he slip by and is now protected because he is in the union and got his sag card or did you have to give him a tune-up . This was a very good tutorial of how to do this very important step in the rebuild process .Very good explanation of pinched and bowed so that anyone could understand the process, professor . You are providing a great service to those that want to learn more about their bikes even if they don't do their own work at least they will have a better understanding of the process of different repairs . One of my mentors years ago thought that the nut locks were now unnecessary since the advent of threadlocker , I think Harley did away with them during the end of the Ironhead production run . I know that some people put a tack weld on the nuts but for most people this is unnecessary .I have never heard of anyone having a issue with the nuts coming loose and if they did I would think it would be because of not paying attention to detail on assembly .I know that some people have real issues trying to true flywheels with some aftermarket rods form some manufacturers, but there are some good ones as well .Patience and cleanliness are two key factors when assembling flywheels . I look forward to the next installment of the Koala Kronichles or Down Under Thunder . Take care my Friends . From The North. Siberian Cycles Gary
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. The hard parts are all done (I hope) on the Aussie engine. Yes, people say you don't need the lock plates. Geeze the nuts are torqued to 150 foot pounds. Hard to imagine a number 10 screw and a piece of tin will keep one on if it decides to break loose... But, the hole is already there, I just cant bring myself to leave the lock off. Yeah, my newest ironhead parts book, 79-82, does not show the lock plates. I have heard that the racing guys (XR) tack welded the nuts to the shafts. I too have had issues truing the chineseum rod and crankpin sets. I think the tapers on the crankpin are sometimes incorrect. And a couple of ten thousandths is all it takes to throw one off. It is 17F in Texas today, not much work s getting done in the unheated workshops. Take care...
I saw someone else set up the flywheels! He got those gages so spot on, that there was No movement at all?! He did the last bit of adjustment by using a wedge between the wheels. Must admit, I never seen anyone get them that perfect ! But, I beleave perfection is possible. 👍🔧🇬🇧 PS, NEVER hit the flywheels, when it is in the truing jig !?!? Take it out each time, you use the bonkomiter.
Great job brother! Where can I get my hands on that truing stand you have? I balance and true two stroke kit bike cranks and that stand would help tons!!
I honestly don't remember where I got that one. Just google "flywheel truing stand" there are a boatload of different styles out there. For a long time I used a home made one made out of welded up steel channel.
So... I hear people say to not split my cases if my tolerances are ok when I check the flywheel still in the cases. (I don't know what tolerances to check or how to do it yet, but I am researching still. You checked the tolerances on the truing stand and I thought I heard you say they looked pretty good.... Yet you took the flywheel apart anyway and found some damage that I thought you said might make them not salvagable. That tells me I should split my cases no matter what, on my 73 sporster engine rebuild. What would your advice be ?? Thanks for taking the time to teach the rest of us.... your efforts are appreciated.
If I have split the cases for any reason, I'm probably going to split the flywheels. It will never be easier, you've already got it apart. But, unless the rods are sloppy, I will NOT split the case. The old adage applies, if it ain't broke don't fix it. So if your rod bearings are good, leave it alone.
It's no wonder the old Harleys have so many inherent issues. What a lousy way to make a crank pin, using a thin jam nut to hold it in place rather than a pressed in pin. I guess they wanted it easy to replace the rod quickly. I find lead hammers to work better, they don't bounce off, all the energy is transferred to where you hit it...
And yet I've never seen a crank pin nut come loose. However I've seen the sprocket shaft shear the key and spin on those engine that don't use the key. I may get a lead hammer someday. Thanks for the comment!
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Very few people would even try to get it to .001
Nice job, glad to see somebody cares about their work !
The goal, of course, is .000. I did one once where one side was .000 but the other side was just less than .001.
that minced surface on the flywheel really just boosts my theory that most Ironhead reliability problems are caused by people not correctly assembling them correctly or within tolerance
Yep....
That is some outstanding work my friend! You make it look almost do-able even for me but I guess there's a bunch of stuff you can't possibly show in a video. Anyway it's fun watching and I learn a lot too. Thanks!
thank You!!!
You would have made a great teacher Gary. I wish I had your patience.
Wow, thanks!!!
I’ve had several Ironhead motors rebuilt since the mid ‘80’s but never saw a mechanic go through the process of truing up a set of wheels. A really nice video to see as I’m getting ready to put a ‘68 XLCH motor back together
I just picked up a truing stand. Set up a shovelhead crank using used parts from my stash to practice with. Your video helped alot. Got it under a thousandth in about an hour. Thanks and keep the videos coming.
Glad it helped. It does take some practice, BUT, you will run into sets of flywheels that will just kick your ass...
The techniques you implemented in your video are great. This type of knowledge needs to be preserved so younger generations can have this and do rebuilds the right way.
The younger generation is only interested if it has USB or bluetooth...
@@IronHeadCycle ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,true,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,let ride the jap junk throw away stuff........................
I have yet to watch a video that made this process, this black art, look easy. I am about one C-hair away from reassembling my 1985 Ironhead-- from this very point forward. Thank you for your contribution, investment, to the art of harley mechanics.
You are most welcome...
Very much enjoyed the lesson. Looking forward to the next one. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Master at work .
Thank you!!!
Great video most people doesn't have the patience to do a job like that correctly.👍
Yes, it does take patience.
best video eye ever watched on truing flywheels. eye completely understand wutz goin on now. thanx boss!
u rock gar!
🤘😎🤘
Glad you liked it!
@@IronHeadCycle
✌😀
Very nicely done keep up the great work 👍
Thanks, will do!
Fine stuff Gary. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it...
Good video , you covered the topic well ........... again
Thank You...
I just finished assembling my flywheels with new s&s rods and crank pin etc. made sure to flip my thrust washers and steak them in the flywheels. Crank pin nuts are at full torque but I have 0.028" end play between the con rod big end boss and the thrust washer measured with a feeler guage. I believe book says 0.006-.010 what am I missing?
You're probably not missing anything. Crankpins are not identical and some seat less or more deeply in the taper than others. Thrust washers are available in different thicknesses. 23972-72, .062 thick and 23972-72B, .067 thick. A little extra side to side in the rods probably won't hurt anything.
I always enjoy your videos and learn from them as well, thank you.
Glad you like them!
Busy with this issue at the moment, good stuff Gary
Thank You!!!
Thanks for keepin it real...sometimes they true themselves, other times you fight them for a couple hours or disassemble and start over! Peace..
That's the truth...
I would just like to know because of someone doing the same thing. Is what size of socket you're using for that nut
1-3/8" socket
👍😎 love the channel
Thanks 👍
Could someone please explain how the flywheel doesn’t go right back out of spec as soon and the downforce from the pistons is applied when the engine is running? It just seems like it would easily move.
That is a good question.
@@IronHeadCycle haha If you know I would love to learn why!
The down and up force is captured and distributed within the rotational movements of the bearings and flywheel mass. The full directional force never really bottoms out so to speak since it is rotational In motion/design. At least that is my theory.
I guess the best way to test it is to correctly balance/true the flywheels and run the motor under load in a road test. Then disassemble the motor and recheck the flywheels for runout. It certainly would be very interesting to see the results.
Another Great video Gary.
Great video. I’m a dirtbike rider and need to do some crank truing. Is that crank holding stand you’re using a custom tool? If not, where can you buy those?
It is off the shelf and available for around $2000.00. Contact me directly through link beleow if you think you may be interested.
thanks for the video helps, Tork specs are very helpful
Glad it helped
😎👍😎
thanks, I always learn from for videos.
Glad to hear it!
I would want you working myenginr
I'd be glad to...
Súper video .
Thank You!
Thank you for sharing knowledge.
Thank You!!!
It's called "pinch & bow". I don't know why people don't indicate both shafts at the same time. It makes seeing the overall picture quicker and easier.
Because you need two indicators equals extra $$$$. And, personally I can't watch two indicators at once. Takes but a few seconds to move the indicator from one side to the other...
@@IronHeadCycle ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,many guys from back in the day were successful and fine using the sweeping indicators that came with the Rowe truing stand ; I also bought the extra long center ; for checking shaft runout...............A heavy Lead hammer is needed ; making one is no fun...............
@@ThomasELeClair Yes, the lead hammer works great...
wow......were did they grow you?
hello my name is Richie. i want to thank you ssssssoooooo much for your video. I HAVE NEVER seen such a detailed, explained youtube video. in my life, no joke. Let alone on FLYWHEELS!! this is gold!!
subscibed, in a sec!
I have a 2005 95' 15 anniv. fatboy, my indy put a S&S fly wheel in my bike. unfortunitley he read the indicator over a phone video and it read .002 out of the crate, is that ok??? i never seen anyone like youself, who is so tedious on detail !! i love it, thats how i am -DETAIL!! ty in advance my good man.
ps bike runs good, but sounds like am old 350 chevy, ya know lol. I do have Andrews g 37 gear drive, so im sure that sounds contributes?? am i right? ty again!
pss...my run out is now .005. i do not do burns out, but i do get on her!
I don't have a 2005 manual. but I do have a 2007 manual, the book says the limit is .002 for 2007, so it is probably the same for 2005. Good luck with your project...
When I've seen this done before Ive always seen the crank pin torqued all the way first and then the alignment done, since as youve shown when you do it in stages it tends to walk out. Is there a benefit to torquing in stages and truing in between each stage or were you doing that for demonstration purposes?
Good question. The Harley manual is vague. It just seems to make sense to me to bring them true in stages. Yes, they do walk out a bit and must be brought back in. Yes, the final few smacks are at very nearly full torque.
Greetings From Siberia . As always I hope the two of you are doing well and that the koala Bear build is coming along without too much frustration . Another first class video production from the crew at I.H.C. world headquarters . What happened to the mic guy?, did he slip by and is now protected because he is in the union and got his sag card or did you have to give him a tune-up . This was a very good tutorial of how to do this very important step in the rebuild process .Very good explanation of pinched and bowed so that anyone could understand the process, professor . You are providing a great service to those that want to learn more about their bikes even if they don't do their own work at least they will have a better understanding of the process of different repairs . One of my mentors years ago thought that the nut locks were now unnecessary since the advent of threadlocker , I think Harley did away with them during the end of the Ironhead production run . I know that some people put a tack weld on the nuts but for most people this is unnecessary .I have never heard of anyone having a issue with the nuts coming loose and if they did I would think it would be because of not paying attention to detail on assembly .I know that some people have real issues trying to true flywheels with some aftermarket rods form some manufacturers, but there are some good ones as well .Patience and cleanliness are two key factors when assembling flywheels . I look forward to the next installment of the Koala Kronichles or Down Under Thunder . Take care my Friends . From The North. Siberian Cycles Gary
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary. The hard parts are all done (I hope) on the Aussie engine. Yes, people say you don't need the lock plates. Geeze the nuts are torqued to 150 foot pounds. Hard to imagine a number 10 screw and a piece of tin will keep one on if it decides to break loose... But, the hole is already there, I just cant bring myself to leave the lock off. Yeah, my newest ironhead parts book, 79-82, does not show the lock plates. I have heard that the racing guys (XR) tack welded the nuts to the shafts. I too have had issues truing the chineseum rod and crankpin sets. I think the tapers on the crankpin are sometimes incorrect. And a couple of ten thousandths is all it takes to throw one off. It is 17F in Texas today, not much work s getting done in the unheated workshops. Take care...
I saw someone else set up the flywheels! He got those gages so spot on, that there was No movement at all?! He did the last bit of adjustment by using a wedge between the wheels.
Must admit, I never seen anyone get them that perfect !
But, I beleave perfection is possible. 👍🔧🇬🇧
PS, NEVER hit the flywheels, when it is in the truing jig !?!?
Take it out each time, you use the bonkomiter.
Master truer explained and shown in simple form. Thank you for shareing your expertise and craft ingenuity.Much appreciated. IH1977
You are very welcome
Great job brother! Where can I get my hands on that truing stand you have? I balance and true two stroke kit bike cranks and that stand would help tons!!
I honestly don't remember where I got that one. Just google "flywheel truing stand" there are a boatload of different styles out there. For a long time I used a home made one made out of welded up steel channel.
Good video, thanks. Could you tell me the taper angle on a big twin big end pin ?
No idea
Cool video... I had no idea that you had to "true" it like that
Glad you liked it!
So... I hear people say to not split my cases if my tolerances are ok when I check the flywheel still in the cases. (I don't know what tolerances to check or how to do it yet, but I am researching still.
You checked the tolerances on the truing stand and I thought I heard you say they looked pretty good....
Yet you took the flywheel apart anyway and found some damage that I thought you said might make them not salvagable.
That tells me I should split my cases no matter what, on my 73 sporster engine rebuild. What would your advice be ??
Thanks for taking the time to teach the rest of us.... your efforts are appreciated.
If I have split the cases for any reason, I'm probably going to split the flywheels. It will never be easier, you've already got it apart. But, unless the rods are sloppy, I will NOT split the case. The old adage applies, if it ain't broke don't fix it. So if your rod bearings are good, leave it alone.
@@IronHeadCycle Appreciated
Ironheads are the best sounding Harley Engine.
Super ok👍👍
Thank you 👍
It's no wonder the old Harleys have so many inherent issues. What a lousy way to make a crank pin, using a thin jam nut to hold it in place rather than a pressed in pin. I guess they wanted it easy to replace the rod quickly. I find lead hammers to work better, they don't bounce off, all the energy is transferred to where you hit it...
And yet I've never seen a crank pin nut come loose. However I've seen the sprocket shaft shear the key and spin on those engine that don't use the key. I may get a lead hammer someday. Thanks for the comment!
Anyone know of someone that does this in North Carolina
The first time I hear "Fuck" in one of these machining videos. Of course, it had to come from a machining nerd with a background in Harleys.
It won't be the last.