Home Video History of the Batman Films (1989-1997)
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- Опубликовано: 21 июл 2024
- #batman #homevideohistory #physicalmedia
And overview of the primary USA NTSC home video releases of the original four Batman films up to the current 4K UHD editions. I also discuss the transfer history of each film in picture and sound to highlight how they have been presented over the years…not to mention the issues with the current UHDs.
00:00 intro goof
00:00:20 introduction
00:01:08 Batman 89 vhs beta and laserdisc
00:03:15:23 89 LD
00:04:32:21 vhs
06:40 beta
00:08:21:28 89 technical transfer aspects
17:52 note about Japan 89 LD audio
18:02 Batman Returns
18:09 Batman Returns Laserdisc
22:20 Batman Returns VHS
24:00 Batman Returns theatrical 2.0 SR and Dolby Digital launch film
28:51 Batman Forever, the Laserdisc and the importance of the 2.0 matrixed audio track
34:13 Forever VHS
36:08 Forever video master summary
37:46 Batman and Robin Laserdisc
42:26 Batman and Robin VHS
43:52 B&R audio tracks discussion
45:08 1998 letterbox vhs tape reissue
47:38 1997 DVD release snapper case flipper discs and 2000 Legacy Boxset
56:47 2005 Anthology DVD boxset Special Edition remasters
01:09:03 Blu-ray releases
01:15:55 4K UHD releases
01:35:59 Final Summary 
Кино
NOTE: It was only after I finished and uploaded this video that I realized I forgot to mention WB's presenting all four films slightly opened up to 1.78:1 on both DVD releases and the Blu-rays from their theatrical 1.85:1 ratio. This was standard WB video practice at that time. The UHDs revert back to presenting the theatrically accurate 1.85:1 ratio.
As with all letterboxing on Laserdisc the ratios do vary a little bit but are generally close to theatrical matting ratios.
You are forgiven
Just a little question i wanted to ask: Is your Stereo/Surround system Hi Fi compatible in relation to VHS Hi Fi vs PCM? Since VHS Hi Fi is known for extremely dynamic sound and is a technology that is much closer to the original magnetic source, wouldn't it actually sound quite a bit better than PCM? Especially since PCM being Digital has a mandated resolution that cuts off further potential frequencies of the source and is very speculative by it's nature. Think like how Vinyl ends up sounding noticeably superior to CD which uses the same PCM signal that Laserdisc does.
I'm typically not a stickler for 1.85:1 movies being slightly opened to 1.78:1 or perfect 16:9, so I didn't even catch this.
When Batman '89 had its awful Atmos remix, I wasn't thinking "Well, at least the picture doesn't touch all four corners of my screen".
Spencer, thanks for another great series review. You've inspired me to watch '89 tonight and you're right about the sound (and picture). It's rich and deep. Loads of bass, especially when Bruce sees Vicky from across the room in the casino and moments later in the armory room. (Hilarious scene!) I've got my copy weighing in at 1.76:1 with the picture touching the top and bottom perfectly with thin pillar-box bars on each side. I needed to pan the frame down -5 on the horizontal with no overscan to centre it though. - not unusual for LD, as you say in the video.
Beautiful WB print. Thanks again! 👍😎🇦🇺
@@subliminalvibes thank you!!! Glad you spun it up! Yeah, the LD framing is somewhere around there. It’s the hardest thing to try and figure out the exact aspect ratio of Laserdisc or any old standard def widescreen presentation. Sometimes I’ve tried to do it by getting a yardstick and going across my TV screen and trying to figure it out.
I'll be honest... when I found out the '89 4K _didn't_ have the 80s gun SFX that was the clincher for me. I can kind of live with the palette, but give me my classic cartoon gun SFX damnit!
I also hate the 4K color grade so I’m sticking with my old Blu-ray’s. That was more of a sin than the audio.
@@thischannelisdeletedColor grading issues are very mild at worst in Batman 89, not anything too serious. The color innacuracy in Batman Returns is a far bigger deal.
see this men Batman (1989) - Blu-Ray/4K Audio Differences
ruclips.net/video/ETng0BkrLOU/видео.html
I’m 100% for film preservation but some of these changes are insidiously subtle that it would take us regular folks a while before we even notice them. Generally, it’s easier to spot something that is wrong than to spot something that’s different. That’s why I’m glad we have someone like you to fight the good fight for us. How you retained all these info in your head is remarkable! 😂
Thanks!
Yes I’m really fun at parties…I can rattle off video and audio mix differences….
Are you high?
It's also extremely inconsistent. They messed with the color timing and sound mix on the first two films, but couldn't be bothered to fix obvious errors (like the top-down shot of the Batman "blob" viewing the robbers running away in the opening of '89 before turning around and walking away, or the stunt double for Pfeiffer shown just before Shreck's Department Store explodes in Returns) that stick out like more of a sore thumb on 4K.
And worse yet, there's a ton of vintage features for '89 and Returns that have never shown up on any home media release. Myspleen has an entire archive of rare featurettes and interviews that have been freely collected by fans and make up a better extras package, and yet no one at WB could be bothered to boost what is arguably one of their most successful titles ever?
@@crazyrabbits They probably didn’t want to pay for the rights. They don’t pay their employees properly anyway, so this wouldn’t be a surprise if true.
@@crazyrabbits It's not a huge issue for me but on the 4K Batman 89 disc it's much more obvious when it's not Keaton in the suit but his movement double Carl Newman.
Release the Schumacher cut!!🦇
The 1997 dvds are my favorite versions of Batman 1989, Batman Returns and Batman Forever
I love the fact you can get the fullscreen editions on the other side. Thats a rarity these days
@user-jy2qu7pu9r i know right what's why i love the early wb snapper case dvd releases for that reason. I converted my 1997 dvds Batman 1989 & Batman Returns to digital so i can watch them anytime i want on any device plus early wb dvd releases have a bad reputation of disc riot
Great video. I've seen 89 in 70mm...the DVD 1997 5.1 track is just about spot on...just a couple different EQ choices but once applied, totally fantastic and truly what a few of us got to hear in select theaters.
The 4K set is proof that Warner (and honestly many studios) are really missing people who are cognizant of film history when preparing their releases. I don't know what it's going to take for people to speak up and make a change but we are venturing into a bad territory when a studio has totally revisionist thinking in regards to their library. What a shame, and crime against cinema.
VCD versions worth a mention. Also the Japanese Laserdiscs for the Burton and Schumacher films have gatefold jackets. Great video.
I would’ve included those if I did releases outside the US market. Although if I included every foreign release, I don’t think I would be finished with making this video yet…😂
That’s a good point about the Japanese releases having gatefolds. They were always really good about that I guess because they weren’t as cheap as Warner when they made jackets here in the USA. 🤣
You have spoilt us with these new videos this weekend, I have the JP 89 and Forever with dual audio that just keeps the stereo mixes and drops the ac-3
I really love these Home Video History videos you’ve done! It’s really great to get an overview of what’s out there and get a rundown of the good and bad of each release. I hope you’re able to do more videos like this!
Thank you! This is the type of information I accumulate over the years and I’m constantly researching so it’s nice to have a way to share. I do have one for Double Indemnity that I’ll be posting this weekend!
Great overview of the various releases of one of my favorite film franchises.
Exactly.
Holy shit, I'm going to watch this ENTIRE video, aren't I?
Batman Returns is actually my favorite live-action Batman film, and third favorite overall.
My top 5 Batman films are:
1. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
2. Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker (Uncut Version)
3. Batman Returns
4. Batman, 1989.
5. Batman Begins/The Dark Knight (It's a tie).
I followed you on Twitter while watching this video. I love all the nerdy info. I’m hoping you have done (or will do in the future) a similar video on the home video history on the Back to the Future trilogy. All 3 films in this trilogy are among my very favorites!
Great overview. Diehard 89/92 fanboy here. I haven't been impressed with any of the packaging designs since the snap case DVDs as they are the last release to feature the original VHS/poster artwork relatively unaltered. The 2005 DVDs have them but that terrible silver font on them kind of kills the look. The 4K cases are easily the worst designs we've recieved so far.
As I was watching, I saw that the image/poster artwork on the cover of the B89 DVD snapper case is reversed compared to the VHS and LD covers. How odd! ... Great video as always!
Also noticed this. Any other version past LD and VHS is reversed. The poster reflects what's on the VHS and LD. Geez No QC!
A note on the Beta section, Betamax stopped getting major retail releases in 1992. With the last players rolling off the assembly line in 1993. However, it was still possible to special order a Betamax copy from a video rental store or retail store. Just more expensive. They stopped doing this after 1996 or so. I don't know if Warner did this, but I know for a fact Disney did. It's how "Snow White", "The Lion King", and "The Aristocats" got Betamax releases. They're extremely rare and hard to find because they were manufactured in extremely limited quantities and made for special orders.
Hope this helps !! 😊
Thanks! I knew it seemed to have stopped somewhere around there for most studios but never knew a specific date. That really helps and aside from Disney I think Paramount was the only other entity to stick around in super limited quantities and they lasted until 1996.
Great video dude, really enjoyed it... now time for the Robocop home video history video!
yes please!
+1
Thanks Spence, SO close yet so far.I have the lds/dvds/blu rays/4ks. I would love to be able to make my own 4ks with the better audio synced to them.
Thanks. Great information, I learned a lot.
I just got my hands on the original Batman 1997 dvd and once again you were completely right about the soundtrack. Watching the full screen matted version almost made me weep from nostalgia.
I got the full nostalgia burst when I looked at the open presentations again. It also shows how the overall framing quality can differ on open transfers. If you look carefully some of the four films handle maintaining compositions better while others don’t do quite as well. It’s fascinating that open matte transfers can vary wildly in this even for films of the same series.
Do you suppose that is a result of the open matte transfers not being taken seriously, or on the contrary being catered to each film specifically?@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
@@bertrand9055 I just think it’s a matter of some getting more attention paid to them by whoever the mastering engineer was at the time. It’s the same thing with panning and scanning, where back in the day certain engineers would try to preserve the original ratio as much as possible, in spite of being ordered to pan and scan versus others who wouldn’t and at the absolute worst where it would basically be just left on automatic.
The same thing applies to pretty much any old-school analog video transfer. Part of what I enjoy about watching Laserdisc is not only having the best quality presentation of these older masters, but that feeling of never knowing exactly what you’re going to get transfer wise when you put the disc in. Sometimes they had to use an older print source, or the source can vary because they had to mix print sources, and sometimes this can result in a gnarly video experience, but there’s a fun factor which I refer to as sort of being a video archaeologist.
This is a fascinating listen. Even though it is dense and filled with rapid fire information, your enthusiasm and sincerity come through making it very listenable.
I could be crazy, but I went to caps-a-holic to compare the old blu, remastered blu, and 4k of Batman and Robin. The new master is beautiful and shows more detail, but I noticed that some of Poison Ivy's green was different and Mr. Freeze's blue was different. When I zoomed in I noticed Poison Ivy's green had some blue mixed in and Mr. Freezes blues had some green and yellow mixed in. I'm guessing this could be examples of more modern day "tealing"? Or they could just be bringing the colors down to a more neutral look. I don't know. Thanks again for the video!
Just recently starting following the channel, and as luck would have it, just found Batman & Robin on LD (I’m not a fan, but my wife likes it, so happy spouse). I did spin it up in my Pioneer player (non-optical or AC-3) and I do have to say, that sound mix was pretty sweet. Played over my LG 5.1.2 soundbar set at just digital stereo, and holy crap! I was surprised I didn’t get complaints from neighbors in my apartment. I’m on the hunt for the others in LD. I’m a completist so will eventually get the UHDs, but that stinks that the sound mixes were changed on those. This video was very informative and I know what to expect sonically. It’s a pain that the smaller boutique labels can get original audio (looking at you, Arrow and Synapse Films!) but larger studios simply don’t care.
The audio tracks really got heavily processed over the years. The 2.0 matrix LD mixes are all great and the one on B&R is extremely good and not found on later releases. Batman Forever’s 2.0 matrix is really better mixed than the ac3 5.1 so just wait until you turn that LD up!
Great video and collection ! ! !
But you forgot the UMD Discs
I’ve never gotten into the UMD format as I never owned a PSP, but they were derived from the 2005 DVD masters and compressed down for those releases.
I have no idea how your Batman & Robin VHS copy has a printed label. Mine doesn’t and neither does any of the ones I see on eBay.
Keep doing what you're doing
Awesome Video
info like this is getting harder and harder to come by as time goes so i definitely appreciate these videos. Im curious do you know if any of the motion picture scores/ soundtracks have the "warm" feel you mention from the vhs releases (89)? im paranoid of overusing my VHS copies lol
I think when you listen to the film version of the 89 score it feels a little bit more full bodied, which sounds like the mix I prefer on the older releases. If you’re worried about wearing out tapes, you could always switch over to the Laserdisc digital track or just pick up the 1997 DVDs which have those matrix stereo tracks in discrete on the Burton films.
1:22:23 “As you can tell this sort of gets me hot and bothered. And oh, would you look at that, I’ve went and disintegrated this corner of the case and slipcover from clenching it in my fist so hard.”
😂😂
Batman Forever was the first Live Action Batman movie I saw it was on vhs
Excellent video. I am a huge fan of the old school Batman films (at least Burton's two Batman flicks and even Batman Forever), and I used to own the Anthology DVD set from 2005 before I eventually upgraded to the Blu-ray collection.
I also own the 4K UHDs for 1989 and Forever, and I was considering getting Returns, but after watching this video as well as the UHDs I own, I have no desire to purchase Returns anymore, especially if it's that bad. Plus, it's bad enough the sound mixes on the 4Ks for 1989 and Forever were botched, plus, the fact that the old sound mixes were left out of the discs for some asinine reason.
For a while, I have been curious about owning previous releases such as the 1997 DVDs and the 2005 set once more, despite how aged they seem to be (especially the 1997 DVDs). It's also worth noting that the 1997 DVDs being in both full-frame and widescreen was pretty common for early releases from Warner Home Video and even New Line Home Video. I can definitely confirm this since I own some old New Line titles like Mortal Kombat (1995) and The Mask, both of which have incredibly dated widescreen transfers as well as somewhat crisper 4x3 full frame options, mostly down to those DVDs being early launch titles that still used the old Laserdisc/VHS masters as sources, much like the old school Batman films.
Still, this video was very entertaining, and it encouraged me to seek out the other editions that I currently don't own just to see how each edition look, sound and ultimately compare to each other.
It’s a shame Warner are handled the UHDs improperly. The new source scans themselves are great and are much higher quality than what we’ve had before. But the color timing and encoding and lack of original audio really kill them for me.
What’s great about the older video editions is that nowadays they are very inexpensive so you can pick up different format editions and try them out.
I used to have "Batman & Robin" on VHS but I lost it, and now the only versions of the movies I have is the 4 Film Favorites version on DVD.
The 4 film favorites edition gives you the widescreen sides of the 1997 DVDs.
This was great. I'm a big fan of the Burton/Schumacher films, Batman 89 in particular, so I've collected many forms of them all on physical media over the years. Not too long ago, I even found an unused display for the Batman 89 VHS release that would have been in video/department stores on it's initial release. I was only 3 in 89 so I missed out on the hype, but I really appreciate the history of it and the impact it had on pop culture.
As for the most recent 4k releases, they obviously leave much to be desired. The sound certainly being the biggest issue. The picture on both 89 and Returns is still off. New special features would be nice. Getting Keaton for a commentary track for his two films would be great. Lastly, the artwork. It's atrocious. If you think the ones on the regular release is bad, the best buy steel book set is even worse. Obviously, would have been better if they just used the original theatrical one sheets, but even then, I'm a bit bored with those. All of those films are so visually interesting, with the right artist, they could make some great art for the covers. I wish a company like Arrow Video could get their hands on the license. I'd feel pretty confident in all of those issues getting rectified if they did.
Batman Forever was the first film 13 year old me bought with his own money on VHS. Interesting that they printed directly onto the cassette in the US. My UK PAL version had a beautiful full-colour printed label with the poster art. I also much prefer the UK artwork on the SE DVDs/Blurays. Infinitely better than the lacklustre artwork on the 4K steelbooks.
Ever thought doing a history on the video releases of the Wizard of Oz? That's the movie I'd like to take the discs of and make a custom set. It looks like all the releases have something unique to them that other miss (i.e. commentaries or features)
That's a good idea since there are soooo many versions and masters, audio presentations and as you say all the different extras that have appeared and disappeared over the years.
I love these deep dives. No PSP versions? Darker films were often also brightened to defeat the video auto gain controls built in to the VHS recorders on 'budget' VHS recording 'farms', which were sometimes racks of domestic recorders.
Thank you! I keep forgetting about UMDs and until a short while ago I never realized just how many films were released on the format for PSP‘s. I knew Batman Begins got one and the Batman 66 film but didn’t realize 89 had also gotten one.
Looking at images online eyes think they just made a lower bit rate copy of the 2005 DVD but it credits a stereo track so they may have just made a fold down of the 5.1 I would guess.
I think all the Batman movies got UMDs, except The Dark Knight Rises, and the Pattinson, as they're too new for the format. @@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader
Great video. I never noticed the changes in the Atmos mixes (looking into that now), but I immediately noticed the color grading on 89 and Returns. Especially 89 looks off to me, it's completely teal. Looks horrible. I know HDR impacts the look of a film a little, but they definitely screwed something up in the mastering process. Whenever I mention it about it first movie people act like I'm crazy. Ironically I think Batman & Robin looks absolutely jawdropping in 4K. Like it was made for the format: shot on film, colorful, full of details and sequins, full of darkness and light. Really demo disc material.
I think you have mistaken Batman 89 with Batman Returns. Batman 89 has a bit of teal, but nothing too bad overall, it's still great overall. Batman Returns is the one that truly got bathed in teal significantly.
@@matheus5230 Yeah Batman Returns looks bad too but again, not as bad as 89 to me. 😂 This is exactly what I mean, seems to be incredibly subjective what people find looks off.
@@rsolsjoIf I'm not mistaken, the color timing in Batman 89 is objectively FAR more accurate, far more correct, than Batman Returns. You are basically saying that the more accurate disc looks worse. This is not pure subjectivity. There is a correct color timing for the artistic intent in each movie, and Batman 89 comes far closer to the original theatrical color timing than Batman Returns. Batman Returns has far more teal than Batman 89 in the 4K discs. Is your TV properly calibrated?
I really enjoyed this even though most of this technical information is somewhat over my head. It was nostalgic for me to see the letterbox VHS versions discussed. I remember paying quite a lot extra to buy Batman & Robin in this format. It's surprising to me learning how half @ssed Warner has been and still currently is in the putting together of their physical media releases.
I used to have the UK equivalents of the 97' DVDs (I don't think we got them until 1999 though). Even in the mid 2000s when I got them, they looked pretty ropey (plus Returns and Forever were cut). I bought the 2 disc edition of 89, but never got the others. I did eventually upgrade to the Blu-Ray set and later the individual 4K releases.
Yeah, they definitely looked ropey in the 2000s so nowadays especially upscales they are beyond ropey looking. Even though we didn’t get a later laserdisc pressing when I compare on my CRT set up the older LD pressings look much better because they don’t have all of the early DVD ropiness and the master source is still pretty much identical. The 5.1 on the 97 DVDs plus having the 1.33 versions is the real draw to those discs.
I do remember Batman 89 being sellthrough.
Only got returns on 4K because I love it and the 5.1 mix they have on the disc sound like the “proper” mix they made while the atmos is just an expansion of that since it sounds very flat for an atmos mix imo.
I have the lds & dvds for all except Batman forever. I’m thinking of getting the diamond luxe edition for Batman but don’t know if the transfer is based off the new 4K scan they did like gremlins was.
Yeah all four remixes because they're catalog titles will never be the full "Atmos experience" so to try and bring them into that was stupid in the first place.
Every BD of 89 is the same BD disc. That diamond luxe edition merely changed packaging and added the 2nd disc with the 25m featurette which is now on WB's youtube channel.
Just pickup the 4 pack BD set which usually goes for as cheap as $10 and eventually you can get the other UHDs on sale in order to have every transfer if you wanted to do a custom version.
I gave the '97 DVD of BATMAN a watch after this video and was pleasantly surprised how much a 384 kbps Dolby mix held up. Bright and lively, and the Blu-ray was no slouch either, imho. The TrueHD's tamed a little, but without A-B'ing back and forth I'm not disappointed. The 4K I sampled via streaming, I still have not paid money for a physical copy because in spite of a gorgeous picture transfer that looks more like the theatrical presentation than ever before on video, the audio is the furthest thing from it. It's an ugly patchwork of new effects layered on old effects, volume level tweaking and EQ like what soured me on the Blade Runner 4K's Atmos. Frustrating as hell for someone who just wants a definitive release.
Exactly that’s why the UHDs pain me so much because finally we get new should be perfect transfers only to be ruined by poor handling in color grades and audio.
Old ac3 tracks at 384kbps are pretty much what you would get on a Laserdisc. In fact most early DVDs are not only Laserdisc ports but if the audio is also 384 it’s pretty much exactly the Laserdisc audio track which is why I made the point about the canceled AC3 Laserdiscs of the Burton films. You wouldn’t think that such a tiny file size for a multi channel track could pack that kind of punch but when you’re talking about untouched theatrical mixes or upmixes done before they started EQing everything to hell and back they can absolutely knock your socks off in spite of the tiny size.
Unfortunately this didn’t last long and not only did it get bumped up to 448 for most DVDs that’s when they started remixing tracks more frequently. So then you couldn’t even count on it being the same audio as the LD or theatrical untouched, even when they were porting a Laserdisc video master.
There are some 5.1 tracks for this era on Laserdisc and early DVD ports that contain the definitive audio presentations of the film across all of home video. That’s the sad part. For example, one is the mission impossible 5.1 I rave about and another would be the 5.1 they did of top gun around that time which turned up on the Laserdisc and the first DVD port. And there’s another example right there where you have two paramount films with great 5.1 Laserdisc audio and one was transferred to DVD and the other was remixed for DVD.
This is why I've thankfully kept all the previous Blade Runner Laserdiscs and the original Directors Cut DVD on hand. You can have the most accurate transfer of a movie ever, but if the audio doesn't match the tone and spirit of what was originally intended, its immediately not worth the money in my opinion.
@@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r I should do a whole BR video editions video. It’ll be long but ultimately worth it. For audio nothing beats the DC CAV laserdisc.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader That would be awesome to see. I've been itching for a full breakdown of the numerous BR home editions for a while now
@@Eva01-jy2qu7pu9r the sad truth is I can rattle off everything from memory for all the USA editions…
I preemptively sold my SE DVD box set when we got the UHD announcement.
They announced the altered soundtrack early on, but mentioned you would have a choice of the original soundtrack as an option in a press release. This obviously didn’t happen, despite the option being present on HBO Max. New soundtracks are a hard pass for me.
If they don’t eventually fix the issue for Batman’s 35th anniversary, I’m just going with the original Blu-ray set and calling it a day.
I’d say just grab the 4 film favorites Blu-ray set when it’s under $10. Same exact discs as the set for dirt cheap.
Sometimes I'll still watch the old '97 DVD's in full screen and pretend that I'm watching in IMAX, I mean if you can still see more picture top and bottom why not, right? Another note to mention the old VHS Letterbox release of Batman '89 had the framing slightly askew which I thought was annoying, I can't comment on the other films in Letterbox as I didn't have those.
Thanks for that, I’ve never heard anyone talk about the widescreen VHS editions, and what the quality may have been like. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was a slight framing problem as I’m sure they made those tapes very quickly and in such small quantities.
Best thing online
The new colour grades are just as egregious as the new mixes.
Batman Returns is the egregious one. Batman 89 is not really too bad.
Returns is the one that kills me. 89 has it to some degree but thankfully it’s nowhere near Returns and the Schumacher films have little.
Though thinking more about it, it could be worse… Ritrovata could’ve been involved somehow…The horror.
89 actually looks closer to 35mm on the 4k, the new audio is garbage all over tho
The Batman Returns mix is mostly the same.
@@dvdmike007Way too blue in some scenes.
18:10, can you scan laserdisc? I need it.
I wonder if, besides adding the original audio, fans have fixed the teal color timing in Batman Returns' UHD. Probably yes.
Batman 89 is still a pretty good UHD, color timing is not perfect, but not bad. A situation more like Raiders Of The Lost Ark's UHD: not perfectly accurate, but still looks really great, nothing too bad, nothing really serious.
I have the 2005 DVDs.
Here in Mexico, the Returns VHS cassette tape was blue.
I like your content, I’m a nerd for this shit.
It’s great if you’re a fan of film & TV.
The original 2009 Blu-ray’s (for 89 and Returns) are my go-to transfers. They have the best color grade. The color timing is worst than the audio mix. The audio doesn’t bother me too much. It’s mostly about the picture.
Were any of the movies released on VCD or 8mm Video8? I just ordered the VHS of 1989 to see the open format and to look cool on my shelf.
I believe in some other countries and territories yes.
I dont know if it has been confirmed but I do notice teal in both Batman Forever abd Batman & Robin just not nearly as much. Check out when Batman and Robin run in front if the Bat signal. The light coming from the Batmobile engine as well as the close shot of the wheel also have teal. When Batman runs through the flames after Two Face shoots at him, it looks awful compared to the other transfers. Blurry and darkened. Have no idea what happened here. The shot of Batman, Robin and Batgirl turning around just as they batarang up onto the telescope seems too dark compared to other transfers. The ending run on B&R also has teal. These may be just hiccups in otherwise much improved transfers since Warner has no QC.
It wouldn’t surprise me. I don’t really watch them because of the remixes, and first picked up the releases before I had 4K capability. So I was first looking at the new Blu-rays which I know are not as well done as the UHDs and kind of magnify color issues. Since I’ve gotten a 4K set up, I’ve skimmed through and spot checked through the UHD‘s once or twice, but I’m going to do a full review on them specifically with my current method of putting a disk under the microscope, and putting it through its paces to fully evaluate the image on all fronts.
The biggest improvement on all four is the brand new scan, which is far beyond the HD master that dates back to the 2005 DVD. And the Schumacher films benefit extraordinarily from the increase in detail and visual range and it does restore some of the darker inherently filmic qualities of what was on the original source versus the early video transfers, so that is part of the slightly darker appearance in certain moments.
Looking forward to seeing your breakdown of the Nolan Batman physical media. 😂
Nah Nolan's trilogy is overrated and boring.....
@@ChemicalCorpse91 Your opinion, which you’re entitled, but not the consensus.
@@ChemicalCorpse91Your opinion is the consensus.
19:53 Did you happen to take note when the reel changes occurred in Batman Returns?
Do you know anything about the 1989 VHS that was a coke promo? I got it at a garage sale as a kid and always wondered what that was about. It was the full film
Yes the vhs opened with the Diet Coke ad and for a lot of us that ad is now part of our memory associated with the film.
Great video as always. I'd seen others comment on the 4K releases atmos mixes and colour grading on the first 2 movies so I knew you were going to rip into them.
So basically laserdisc for Batman & Returns and 4K with laserdisc audio synced for Forever and B&R?
The color grading innacuracy issues in Batman 89 UHD's discs are much more mild than in Returns. I recommend you to watch the first two discs to see how much the color timing inaccuracy bothers you. You probably won't be too bothered with Batman 89, the issues are very mild, and it's still a 4K transfer after all.
The new 4K source scans are great for all four films, which really makes it a shame how they release turned out. As the comment pointed out I was trying to say the 89 color issues are far lesser than Returns. They’re also better handled on the UHD than the BD disc-but if you’re sensitive to color issues you’ll definitely see them still.
It’s hard to recommend one particular release for all four films because none are perfect. If one was to sync several older audio tracks to the UHDs and redo the color grading yourself that would be the way to go.
Anyone know where I can find Laserdisc rip or capture of Batman and Batman Returns in MKV format? I want to experience the original theatrical mix. All I have is the region 4 DVDs and 4K/Blu-ray of those films. Not a fan of the remastered Atmos mix.
Buy a laserdisc player and the movies :)
@Ninjastar202 No LD players and discs available in Fiji. Most sellers on Amazon and eBay don't ship here as well.
@@Ninjastar202Or buy the 1997 DVDs since the audio's practically the same.
@@HBarnill The 1997 DVDs are kind of difficult to obtain in excellent condition and another issue is they're region 1 and won't play on my Panasonic DP-UB820.
Got The Second Release For Batman Saga, Also Have The Christopher Nolan Trilogy Steel Books -Got Them Cheap From Walmart For About $8.75 Each + Tax😊
Does anybody know if the 2007 dvd releases are the same prints at the 1997? Only differences seem to be 1997s are snapper cases, and 2007s are regular cases.
Yes I think those are reprints of the 1997 discs with keep cases.
Thanks for the reply!
I’m curious; where did you have an opportunity to see Batman ‘89 in 16mm?
My local arthouse did a summer screening program for a year or two where they would mix in 16mm prints with 35mm prints sometimes. The two I got to see in 16mm were 89 and the 1.33 version of Psycho which amusingly has the matting bars placed in the shower sequence to cover any potential nudity.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader That’s cool. When I was a kid I owned a Super 8 digest version of Psycho in 1:33:1. It was definitely an interesting version for a 10 year old boy to watch with his buddies. I really regret selling off my Super 8 collection!
So is the Laserdisc the last time that the 2.0 was available for 1989?
@@matthewgaudet4064 yep LD and vhs only but the 1997 flipper dvd 5.1 is the same track but in discrete.
UHD for video
1997 DVD for audio
Seems logical
Yeah that would solve most everything except you’d have to use the 4:3 version of 89 to not have the jump cut and I’d also add in the 2.0 tracks from the LD’s to have both versions.
Concerning the Batman ‘89 4K audio issue: Alternatively, you can have your Bluray player run the 2015 Bluray with audio only, and run the 4K disc on your 4K player for video only. Yeah, still dumb but at least it’s easier than trying to dupe a new disc.
That’s possible to do with two different discs and I know I certainly have tried to sync up different players and different formats running the same film to do quick audio comparisons. However, trying to get everything lined up is a pain considering player delay and different logos and all kinds of different things.
In any case, dubbing is so much more practical.. I did it once, but synchronizing with two players is a pain
They ruined the 4K color grades for Batman 89 and Returns… 😥
Batman 89 is still pretty good overall, Batman Returns is the one with really serious color grading issues.
@@matheus523089 is way too blue in a few odd scenes (the joker parade/finale). But yes, Returns is totally unwatchable.
Allow me to correct you for a second, Batman forever and Batman and Robin were remixes extracted from their original stems just like the Burton but however they were done closely to the original mixes that you be forgiven for mistaking them for the original AC3/ original '90s DVD counterparts. That's why I said they're not as good as the original 90s DVDs.
You think Warner Brothers would actually treat this one like garbage on the 2005 DVD's but I believe they might have had input from Burton and Schumacher, including the audio mixes.
I think it was overall a new audio harvest done in 2005 from whatever sources they were working with. I’ve never been able to find out what their process was but from what I can tell they did similar work on all four from original sources and that meant the resulting 5.1 tracks on the 2005 releases and thus the eventual BDs were slightly different in overall EQ, levels and presentation.
I can tell you for one thing, the 4Ks along with the sound mixes No matter how good the transfers may be conceptually we're not approved by the directors. (At least I think the two Burton films were, They might have gotten input from Schumacher for his films for the transfer, but yet left the mix they did on the '05 DVD without the new codec or bother to upmix 7.1 Atmos for those two films.) Of the 05 DVD and 09 Blu-ray were approved transfers by the two directors. No matter how much DNR the Forever SE DVD/1St BD had, no matter how much LFE the first two films lost, No matter how much the brightness was turn up on all four films which wasn't a whole lot compared to the old VHS and laserdisc, I believe they were somewhat approved by the directors.
Now director approved 4ks would have been the original color timing on Returns, No Teal/blue tint getting in the way in 89, the 05 mixes presented in DTS Master audio, and not the abomination we got currently, an option for the 70 mm mix in 5.1 for 89, the original 5.1 for Returns, the original Dolby Stereo for both of them presented in lossless MA 2.0, and the original 5.1 for The Schumacher films. I would put a new behind the scene documentary on all 4 films. I would let the WAC label handle the 1080p discs, and dig up new deleted scenes for Batman forever for a director's cut. (Yeah I would have the 1080p discs come out first, in a new studio line then of new 4K disc)
Is the 5.1 on the UHD the older mix or the new atmos mix? Jeeeez the real is badddd
All I want for my 35th is a Warner Archive release of Returns…I’m still watching the UHD in horror. Teal snow wtf?
It's the new mix
@@philipcoghill4648 depressing
Unfortunately, it’s a downmix of the remix. Prior to the release everyone thought it would be the 5.1 track from the Blu-rays in some form but sadly it’s not.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader well I just nabbed the 2010 set…might just not buy any studio UHD’s unless they get nigh spotless reviews going forward
I have Batman & Robin on bluray
Sorry for the random question now, but I would like to know if you think that a lot of the reviewers who gave The Godfather 4K set rave reviews were paid by Paramount to lie.
The Godfather 4K set is perhaps the most baffling 4K release, even though far from the worst on purely absolute terms, because these are insanely iconic films, and the releases happened in 2022, not so early anymore in 4K disc releases. And yet they feel like very early releases made by people still trying to learn how to do properly the new format. It really is an anomaly in the far higher average quality standard that UHDs have in comparison to blu-rays and DVDs, also due to UHDs being far more niche.
I hope the films get new 4K transfers in the 55th anniversary, in 2027, though I wouldn't be too surprised if it takes till 2032 for this happen, in the 60th anniversary. Specially as TVs get better and better, exposing more the flaws, even in the streaming versions (which are obviously worse than discs, so transfer's flaws can often be disguised as streaming flaws). However long it takes, I'll wait for the new 4K transfers and 4K discs someday. I wish these studios were far faster in adressing these issues, but it is what it is.
I have no idea honestly why it got positive reviews. I don't think anyone was paid to give a positive review as that seems outside of the realm of studios caring about physical media enough to try and sway consumers in such an underhanded fashion.
I do think many who get sent free review copies or are worried about what the studio's reaction might be certainly will just give anything a pass. Then there are those who continue to show they have zero knowledge about film or disc releases so I do think there is a good degree of incompetence among the worst reviewers. The abysmal articles and videos that generally pass themselves off as supposed "disc reviews" are the whole reason why I started doing my own. It also makes it frustrating for those who actually care about getting their reviews correct and doing the best that they can.
And I would say that anyone who gave the Godfather set a positive review needs their head examined or at least to explain why they either ignored or overlooked the hideous flaws on display. I don't claim to catch everything but I try my darnedest to be as comprehensive as possible.
The Godfather trilogy needs a brand new master ASAP. Whomever might get the opportunity to do so only needs to take the source scans and redo everything yourself from the ground up with proper encoding, HDR and a full restoration of the original audio presented in lossless without any of the crap audio remixes and then you can look into creating new extras alongside porting all the legacy materials.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader There are many reviewers who often don't know what they are talking about (Films At Home has already an infamous reputation). But there are also others who, at least in some of their other reviews, are able to point out even the most nitpicky issues, which these reviewers also make clear about being not major issues of any regard, very minor. So, if they can spot these nitpicks in other releases, how the hell were they able to not see any of the issues in The Godfather 4K?
The Godfather films needs new transfers ASAP, but it's very unlikely this will happen now, as it should. I really hope new transfers will happen till 2027 max, but I wouldn't be too surprised if we have to wait till 2032 or more. But I will try to be optimistic nevertheless. Not to mention that issues of HDR being way over-the-top are lost in most TVs that can't do proper HDR anyway, so Paramount can still get away with those The Godfather transfer issues for some years. But as better and bigger TVs become more and more common. I expect plenty of transfers of major studios, specially the ones without Dolby Vision, to eventually do what Sony has been doing: using the opportunity of adding Dolby Vision to also adress color and HDR grading issues. All of these issues in the discs plague streaming and digital versions, so that's a major reason to do new transfers within the next 10 or 15 years years max, and release them on disc in anniversary year. I will wait decades if I have to (as many films already did, before finally getting definitive transfers only in the last years), but I really believe we won't have to wait that long from now on.
Random comment: Sony's Lawrence Of Arabia 4K disc received rave reviews across the board, and while it is one of the best catalogue releases out there on absolute terms of picture quality, there is still a feeling that it looks "only" 90% or 95% as good as it can be, for a variety of reasons: the HDR exposes artefacts from the 2012 4K restoration, such as frozen grain and noise, that had previously been hidden in SDR, mainly in skies, though still far from any atrocity, to be clear (and to an extent unavoidable due to the source's limitations, the restoration of the film was an insanely hard and expensive effort).
It would have been ideal if Sony had returned to the raw 8K scan and reworked the most problematic shots in that regard (such as Ali's arrival). Also, to adress the HDR exposing more rampant grain (even though the HDR and color grading are still among the most respectful from Sony), they gently filtered the grain, in a way to avoid DNR. The result is that super extra fine detail that should be there is not, a very small trace of sharpness was removed because of the filtering, this was clear in comparison to the streaming 4K SDR version. Also, Sony didn't come close to filling the discs, and they over-stuffed the encoding with too many audio tracks, so compression isn't always 100% transparent. Ultimately, as 70mm scanning technology has also progressed a lot since 2012 if I'm not mistaken, a new 4K scan and restoration of Lawrence Of Arabia will be interesting to see eventually, we are not yet at the final frontier of how good the movie can look.
Random question: have you watched the Disney Cinderella 4K? I'm curious if you'll make a video on it, and I'm interested to see the results of Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs' 4K restoration when it gets releases. Cinderella, and also Snow White, are confirmed to have color supervision by Eric Goldberg: he is a legendary Disney animator, and there is probably no one in the world who knows better how these films are supposed to look, and it's great Disney is taking the input of such legends in consideration. It seems like Disney in the last years has finally sorted out their restoration team, at least in 4K.
Disney is releasing right now The Nightmare Before Christmas in 4K, which is getting rave reviews in overall picture quality, with only two complaints (in other areas): the original Touchstone Pictures logo is still absent, and there is no original audio, it seems to be the 3D mix.
Honestly, the best reviewer of 4K discs I've ever found is Geoff D in the blu-ray.com forums. While he often says he can't comment on the exact color accuracy (because he often can't know, he hasn’t seen a good print and so on), his reviews are amazing and balanced, and he really knows his stuff regarding DNR, HDR and so on. I like a lot his reviews of the 4K discs of The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and Superman II, for example (And I learned of all Lawrence Of Arabia 4K disc issues with his review of it). He doesn’t review the audio for the most part because of his hearing limitations, so he only talks about picture quality, where is truly an expert at.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderJust to clarify one thing from my last comment: I know that The Godfather 4K issues aren't just with the color and HDR gradings, my point was that eventually adding Dolby Vision is one of the possible excuses for many films to get new and improved color gradings in the future, and even new transfers when really needed. The part where I said this in my last comment was more of a general statement rather than about The Godfather 4K, which already has Dolby Vision.
@@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusaderOne more thing: if it doesn't bother you, I would like to please know your thoughts and answers to my previous two replies here in this discussion. I'm sorry, I just can't help myself in making these insanely long comments packing as many topics as possible in great detail.
In the case of my two previous replies here, the main topics were about why, when and how The Godfather films will get new 4K transfers (and also trying to understand why the reviews were so positive), the Lawrence Of Arabia 4K disc not being as perfect as it could be for a variety of reasons (though still being spectacular overall on absolute terms), Disney's recent 4K discs of Cinderella and The Nightmare Before Christmas, me asking if you watched Cinderella already, and me saying what the early reviews say about The Nightmare Before Christmas.
I wish you the best.
Are the new 4K editions of The Godfather films that bad? I was just relieved that we didn’t have to look at those initial Blu-ray transfers with the piss yellow filter added to the ENTIRETY of the films.
Open matte versions of movies always confuse me to no end... I just don't get it...
I mean, from a production standpoint it's easy. You want your movie to be wide in cinemas so you shoot anamorphic, use a special format that's wide by design like 70mm of you shoot full frame and crop the top and bottom when projecting it. But why were this versions ever released on home video? I get pan and scan, even though i hate it. TV were smaller in those days so you wouldn't really see Peter O'Toole on his camel in "Laurence of Arabia". You can't really make out his face because of the roughly 480 lines of your TV abut 190 are black bars and the movie itself has about 290 to work with - even less on VHS. Plus: People are stupid and complain about unused real estate on their screens. A theoretical, completely hypothetical open matte version of that movie wouldn't solve anything. Tiny things stay tiny, the important thing still have no detail to them but the black bars are gone and are no replaced by sand and stuff you aren't supposed to see... It's fun in a way but it makes no sense...
Plus: Why did anybody ever have to choose between full screen and widescreen releases of this kind of movie on video or Laserdisc? They just could have released them full frame completely zoomed out - the tiny letterboxes that would create would have been swallowed by the overscan anyway - and start every tape with a quick info about the intended aspect ratio with the number and a visual clue so you could tape or matte off the part of the image you don't want to see. If that had been the way someone would have build a device that sits between the player and the TV and does the matting electronically. So there's only one version which makes it easier for everyone and if you want the widescreen version, you can make it yourself. Wouldn't work with movies really shot widescreen and would have been moot with the DVD anyway but still... why did nobody ever do it that way?
1:25a.m. 4/1/2024
I find streaming so dull...
How many? Zero, I don't collect trash. Your video is interesting though.
Thanks, I’m glad you got something out of it. I know the original four bat films aren’t as popular these days but some of this can apply to other Warner handled films on video around the same time periods.
Thanks for the video, from what I see on your videos I don't have the same taste in movies but it's interesting the different info you supply. @@DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader