What destroyed skating for me and for other viewers I know was the judging scandals and the subsequent scoring changes. Viewers want to understand the scoring. When a skater receives mostly 5.4 marks, you know he or she didn't do too well. When he or she gets 5.9s or 6.0s, they did great. But when a skater receives 235 points, what does that mean? It's only relevant to the other skaters scores. How do we know the judges are not cheating? If a Russian judge gives her country's skaters high scores and better skaters low scores, we will never know. Tonya Harding did not ruin skating. The ISU did.
As far as i’m concerned the Russians are buring skating even further with this recent doping scandal. Worse than that they’re becoming like womens gymnastics where they’res rampant abuse of young ladies by the Russian skating federation.
Nah, the IJS is okay. Fans enjoy studying the score sheets to compare elements across competitions and between skaters. But biased scoring has made the objectivity pointless. PCS makes no sense and -5+5 means more room to manipulate scores. You're spot on about the ISU being a reason for the rot though.. they need to improve to reduce biased scoring.
Tonya Harding was a talented Country Girl surrounded by a lot of narcissistic fools. They were the ones who f**ked her up! Her little "hurricane 🌀 in a bottle 🍼" was an one-of-a-kind "freak show" which wasn't what dealt skating a debilitating blow. It was the ISU! They upended the sport with the scoring controversy of the mid 1990s!
No, the 2002 pairs scandal and vote fixing was exposed was the worst thing that happened to the sport. Once they went to that new scoring system the no one could understand, people lost interest.
Jose Hill I think the worst thing that happened to this sport was the rigged ladies competition in Sochi. Russia had no shame, we'll both are the worst things that happened to this sport.
I think the new scoring system is a lot more fair to skaters, but it took me a while to get used to it as a spectator. It is also more transparent, and it is only recently that I've adjusted to glancing at the box in the upper left corner, seeing how each group of elements is graded. At first I thought it took some drama out of the scoring but now it doesn't bother me. However, I understand that it is possible how the new system is too complicated for casual viewers and therefore has reduced the audience for figure skating. Could it be that one reason people don't watch skating as much, or attend professional shows, is that since 2005 and RUclips was born, and there were other online sites for people to watch skating competitions so conveniently, people get their fill that way? It is saturation. Also, the internet has opened up whole new worlds to explore, interact and perform. Young skaters in the US used to be isolated by becoming figure skaters. Besides school, skating was so time consuming they didn't even know what else was out there. And talk about chaining them to a grindstone, compulsory figures were the most expensive, time-consuming and limiting of all skating activities, yet they were required for many skaters. I account for the ascendance of Russian and Japanese skaters as having to do with coaching methods. While many American coaches still seem to be disoriented over the loss of the idiotic compulsory figures, Russian, Japanese and Canadian coaches have moved on and employed the most advanced scientific developments in studying jump and spin techniques, and producing better skaters. Rather than a coach teaching just what was taught to them when they were skaters, coaches are studying the science behind these things. The role of the choreographer has also gone up.
Don't blame Tonya. It's not her fault. The new scoring system ruined everything. I lost interest after the scoring change, the judging scandal, etc are what ruined skating.
For someone so involved in skating, Hamilton seems to have no idea whatsoever what really led to the demise of his sport. Mr. Hamilton, don't blame Tonya Harding. Blame the International Skating Union and the Skating Federations that allowed the scandal of Salt Lake in 2002 to happen. It was post Olympics in Salt Lake 2002, that skating went completely downhill. People left the sport because they realized that not only was a lot of the sport "fixed", but the people in charge supported the deception, and turned a blind eye to allow it to happen. A couple of years after Salt Lake, one of the greatest marketing assets that figure skating had (the 6.0 marking system), was abandoned. It was replaced by a complicated, non-transparent system that confused and alienated people. Arenas emptied, sponsors left, networks balked, and thus....the sport is a shell of itself because, instead of getting rid of the corrupt judges and officials, it changed its business model and marking system. This drove the fans, and sponsors away for good. None of this was Tonya Harding's doing, and Hamilton can't fool those who know better and used to be fans of the sport from blaming Tonya Harding. Maybe those who know nothing about skating will believe you, but people who used to follow the sport know that you haven't got a clue about why figure skating really died.
Galileocan g I agree it would be ridiculous to blame the Tonya H/Nancy K scandal for the demise of figure skating. Ironically Tonya Harding was banned for life yet corrupt, crooked judges were forgiven and allowed to return. Whistle blowers got punished for speaking up. That didn’t exactly make the powers that be in this sport look like they cared about sportsmanship. For me those scandals did more damage than the Harding mess. Though I kind of see what he was saying drawing links from the sudden surge in viewership in 94 to longer term economic changes affecting the sport. Really the title sounds more overdramatized than his actual words.
I don't know. It sounds as if the ratings boom led to unrealistically high expectations for the future and the money people overinvested, after which there was a sharp correction. I'm sure Salt Lake didn't help, but I stopped watching in the late 90 s and I don't remember there being a lot of prime time figure skating on anymore by then. I missed Johnny Weir's entire career!
Exactly, that is what killed it, that stupid scoring. Because now everything is how many position changes can I get in one turn. The artistry has about died
The US Skating association destroyed skating by reserving it only for Stepford wife's daughters. Tonya Harding did not fit into what they wanted to project as an image of US skating, therefore they were systematically downgrading her. Shame on US skating officials.
Yes! I listened to a pod cast about Tonya Harding today. In it they called figure skating a snob sport because even though Tonya and Nancy’s economic backgrounds weren’t THAT far apart, Nancy had the figure skating princess look and Tonya didn’t. And they looked down on her for it and they treated her like she didn’t belong cause she didn’t fit their mold. And they scored her according to their feelings for her instead of for her talent.
Why do so many pretend that Tonya was the poor victim of a snobby elitist figure skating community?? Her trailer-trash ass won the US Championship in 1991! She won a silver medal in the World Championship that same year!! She fell in the rankings afterwards because her performances were not up to her 91 brilliance, plain and simple. It had nothing to with her love of trucks and flannel and lack of Vera Wang costumes. She simply stopped delivering the goods after her awesome peak.
the ISU did all this. Eligible/ineligible. It's all crap. If you're not skating for medals, there is no life for you other than teaching. Ice Capades, Champions on Ice, and Ice Follies no longer exist. Stars on Ice, originally started by Scott himself in 1986, is on its last legs. Professional doesn't exist. It's dead once you leave what used to be the amateur side. It's wretched. I've been in this sport since 1976, I am bored to tears with what's happened.
uky1985 ... Me Too !....I just like most people tuned in for the figure skating segment of the Olympics that year to see the "Showdown" between Harding and Kerrigan. The media did a great job as it relates to 'ratings' with hyping up the drama to be "Settled on the ice" between these two based on the scandal, But I got [like you say] "Turned-off" not by the scandal, But by the vote. The Russian chick Oksana had flaws in her performance as was shown via countless angles of replays, but still managed to win gold ! Nancy Kerrigan got cheated ! I was through with figure skating after that point !!!...You're correct, the voting was definitely a "Fix" !!!
came here to say the same thing! sure the kerrigan/Harding scandal was a big ducking deal, but the scoring was the real bullshit. so many skaters were robbed. this guy? is being a little bitch.
And so for those reasons, I stopped watching because the judges constantly marked good skaters like Tanya Harding down! It got worse when black skaters Debbie Thomas and Surya Boboli came on the scene they were black balled because of their race! The racism was so obvious! Since then there have only been 2-3 good black skaters! Parents don't invest in sports where their children are cheated! Shame on ice skating world! Next to their sex scandals, they need reform!
Andso Kerrigan didn't get cheated, she messed up and doubled her opening triple, and Baiul changed her long program and added an extra triple double combination at the end (which is harder, as one is tired then). This pretty much forced the judges to make the decisions they made on technicals. If Kerrigan had added another triple after missing the first one, she probably would have won...
Fredricka27 In the Olympics that year Surya Bonaly fell on her opening jump, that had nothing to do with her race (and I believe she still placed 4th despite the fall). Also, Debbie Thomas was good and medaled in '88 but Katarina Witt was better- Katarina also beat out a whole lot of white skaters too, not just Debbie Thomas. The problem is that American media hype up American athletes, and Americans are always bitter when their athletes don't win, but Americans do win a lot though, even non-whites like Yamaguchi in 1992. And no, Lipinski didn't beat Kwan because of race issues either, but because she had a more complicated technical program, and she skated faster.
Funny how he says the Harding/Kerrigan scandal destroyed professional skating, but that didn't prevent him from reaping the subsequent rewards because of the scandal.
@@ravenel2 they weren't televised. The compulsories were around for decades, and they were a requirement. If you didn't do well at the compulsories, you didn't even get the chance to do the short program or the long program. The compulsories usually weren't even done in front of an audience .
@@JustGigi319 I am old and have seen the compulsories on TV when I was much younger and they were so dull to watch. I am not sure if this was in the 70's or 80's.I was too young to understand what they were doing just know that they skated a figure 8 slowly.
Such a miss leading headline...I agree with what he says about amateur and pro...very true...but the incident with Tonya and Nancy did not kill Figure Skating or American Figure Skating at all! You want to blame someone, blame the governing body “USFSA” for failing to train its coaches and athletes properly and educate them on the constant change of the code of points! The governing body is still holding onto the past and what made American skaters so dominate, and that kind of skating doesn’t work for the current state of the sport
Although Scott speaks calmly and tries to insert complicated lingo, his argument is pretty incoherent and rambling. It wasn't Tonya Harding or that scandal that "destroyed" figure skating, it was a bunch of subsequent decisions made by the International Skating Union and the declining quality of performers post-Michelle Kwan/Sasha Cohen.
In terms of "professional competition", I'm assuming he's indirectly discussing Tara Lipinski's decision to only rarely appear in the remaining pro competitions of the late 1990s into the 2000s (and even then, her programs were heavily watered down and not terribly interesting choreographically) and Michelle Kwan and Todd Eldredge's decision to remain at the amateur level through Salt Lake in 2002. Plenty of skaters went "pro" after Nagano -- just not the ones that mattered and not the ones who would push the technical envelope. Skaters, in 1998, retired from the Olympic level to skate an occasional double axel for cash, not to hold up their technical level, luring people in. Post-Lillehamer, you had many MANY female skaters still going after Triple Lutzes, pushing technical boundaries. By the mid-2000s (I'm thinking primarily of Ice Wars), pro level competitions had almost no technical requirements and, as such, ratings to match.
I never paid attention to ice skating before the Tonya/Nancy scandal so I have to disagree with him. The new scoring system ruined skating... doing away with figures didn't help. Skaters that were competing in the 90s were still taught how to do them when they were learning and it paid off. I would give anything to see a proper take off on a flip or a lutz. Skaters today have shitty form.
I never liked Sasha and thought she was overrated but I agree. Michelle Kwan IMO was the last great USA skater. Sarah was great too but up to Michelle's last Olympics the USA has a strong group of ladies over the 80s and 90s.
Jib Wangler he appeared professionally. He took over the Ice Capades and attempted to keep skating on top. This man has spent his life giving to the sport and he nailed exactly what happened. You people who say he is incoherent must be drinking or doping or both. When the guy was not fighting cancer which did hit him twice that I know of, it's a wonder he ever skated again!
I dont so much about what he is saying and even though what happened to Nancy K was a very bad thing, it also put figure skating on the map. Got me to watch and then I saw Michelle Kwan and that was that and I followed her for a decade. That level of artistic talent is long gone thanks to the new rules. . its just run around and jump, jump again, and jump again. Once Michelle was done, so was I.
Scot Wilson I felt the same with Yuna Kim, since she retire (in the worst winter Olympics ever aka Sochi) I was done. Figure skating it's not the same anymore...
Karen Reed I could be still in love with this sport if it was fair or have a good scoring system, but since it's so biased and they gave scores without real fundament, I just can't.
Yes, Tanya met some bad people, listened to the wrong things and took some ugly turns in her life, but destroy figure skating?...she did not! She was one of the top female athletes at the time, she changed the face of the sport with her spectacular physical strength and creative tenacity. She did more for the sport than anyone during her reign. She ruined her career, but not the sport. I hope she made some money off that movie.
If you watch every other report on the subject, Harding was the best thing to ever happen to skating. Yes, the incident was terrible. However, the televised 1994 Olympic match-up, with Harding and Kerrigan was the 6th most viewed television program in history, up to that point. Not the 6th most watched sporting event. The 6th most watched thing on television, ever. The top 5 were: The final episode of MASH, Who shot JR?, one episode of Roots and two of the Superbowls. As a result, skating went from some once every four year, B-level event, people watched only during the Olympics, to a multi-million dollar industry. The end result of all this was: several million more people became fans of the sport.
Harding didn't destroy skating............. Notwithstanding Harding and her boyfriend's obvious trailer park element and crime............. What HAS hurt figure skating and this speaks chiefly to the women is the painfully open fix-is-in judging, USFSA politics and the rest as carried forward by NBC Sports that has claimed the fix-is-in winner before the SP, all the more LP.
You have no idea of my background and you make your remark. I have to be in Colorado Springs about 40% of a given work year. You are aware of what is in Colorado Springs, and what takes place there, right? Do. The. Math.
Really? Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for the tip. When was that? Certainly it wouldn't have been just before trails in Detroit, back in '94 via two contract attackers as per Jeff Gillooly. Whew knew.......?
I had a bigger problem with the judging in 1994 than the Tonya Harding incident. The Eastern bloc judges against the Western judges. There were 5 Easterners and 4 Westeners .Change the number to 5-4 Western and Nancy Kerrigan wins the gold. The Cold War was still on. Nancy Kerrigan really outskated Oksana Baiul for the gold, but the 5 crooked Eastern judges prevailed. They were always cheating Americans in the summer and winter Olympics. The absolute worse I have ever seen was the 1972 basketball game. They were going to keep playing those last three seconds over and over until the Soviets got that winning basket. The 1994 figure skating was rigged as well. Oksana skated so mediocre with those bad landings that the Eastern judges looked the other way on that and two of the Western judges saw it and placed her 3rd behind Liu Chen of China. I have less respect for them than I have for Tonya Harding.
Thanks for publishing Scott Hamilton's insights. I appreciate hearing his perspectives. It’s always challenging when sport and art are commingled. At the same time, that “commingling” attracts people who are not particularly engaged by sport alone, but long to see elements of beauty as well. One can argue whether or not these judged elements are proper to sport, but the reality is that we have admitted some to these beauty-“tainted” sports to the arena. That said, the problem with figure skating is not easily remedied. Granted, the current scoring system is hackneyed and had taken the “sport” in a direction that many-including me-find less than desirable (to say the least). But, there are many factors. Scott Hamilton touches on some of them. The scoring system-which (I would contend) covered up inept nationalistic judging rather than remedying it, no matter how well-intentioned (or not ) it may have been-was part of it, but there was also the elimination of compulsory figures, which made the athletes into jumping beans. The admittance of vocal music seems to me to have cheapened the sport and made it too populist. (I admit that that’s just my opinion, take it or leave it. The sport seems less beautiful and, therefore, less appealing to me in its wake, but that’s ONLY my opinion.) I also think that the Boitano Rule damaged the sport. I think that its admission was reactionary, and the “natural” (I am using that adjective, although it may not be entirely appropriate) progression from amateur to professional statue to be unfortunately short circuited. So, speaking for myself, I am left with a less beautiful, less engaging, less interesting, and (heaven knows!) a sport that is more “quantitatve” than “qualitative”. That’s fine if that’s what you prefer. Just count me out. But, I don’t think I’m alone.
I guess I see Scott's point about the money that was pumped in allowing amateurs to not turn pro, but Scott fails to mention that his own show, Stars on Ice, did its part in riding the Harding wave, killing traditional ice shows, and profiting to the tune of millions and millions of dollars. It turns out there was a new audience who wanted to see stars only, instead of traditional shows, and the Harding incident helped fuel that. Aside from TV networks and associations, Scott may have been the individual who profited most from the Harding incident, along with, ironically, Nancy Kerrigan. Ordinarily, an Olympic silver medalist was relegated to a low-paying star spot with Ice Capades. Nancy earned eight million in a few years. There are other factors which have changed skating other than: elimination of figures, the Harding incident, changes in amateur/pro status, judging scandals, and changes to the scoring system. First there was the proliferation of TV channels/networks, including channels devoted to sports, like ESPN. Then there was the home VCR. The impact of the internet has been huge, and it is hard to estimate how it has changed skating. Maybe its beneficial effect was mostly temporary, but I think the Harding incident shifted the ice princess phenomenon (set on fire by Sonja Henie) more toward ice warrior, and it indirectly benefited male skaters, who before Tonya, often had trouble attracting the audience or salary that an ice princess could attract. Audiences became more aware of the subterfuge in competitions, and the difficulty of skating moves. I think part of that has lasted. I understand how Scott feels personally attached to figures. Without them, he would have lost to Brian Orser in the Olympics and probably never had the opportunity to start his own show and make the large mark that he has in the skating world as an entertainer and promoter. Even with his hyper-masculine demeanor and ultra butch costumes, Scott failed to permanently restore masculinity to skating though. That was his mission for a short period. What a character!
Are you calling Scott Hamilton "hyper-masculine>" Nah. A gifted skater? Absolutely. The greatest ever (besides Boitano?) 100%. The pinnacle of masculinity? Nah, fam.
@@j.w.tompkins7440 Ms. Hamilton tried to be masculine by wearing a speed skaters type outfit...but only made her look like she was trying to hide something.
Ernesto quite frankly neither one was great. Nancy was consistent and competitively driven and Tanya had the athleticism but honestly neither of them were great skaters which is way oksana took the gold medal.
In order to win the skating competition, five or more out of nine judges must place a skater in 1st place. Baiul had five judges, all from the former Iron Curtain countries (Poland, Czech Republic, Ukraine, China, Germany) placing her 1st, two judges (USA, Japan) placing her 2nd, and two judges (Great Britain, Canada) placing her 3rd. Kerrigan had four judges placing her 1st and five judges placing her 2nd. Baiul won by the slimmest margin possible with one judge from the former East Germany giving her 0.1 points higher in the subjective Presentation score than Kerrigan. So Kerrigan is just as good as Baiul but only 0.1 points less.
I watched both Tonya and Nancy & other skaters, skating is still a great sport to watch, Tonya worked hard to reach the top in her sport, so give her due credit, and likewise, so did Nancy. We are aware of Tonya's mistake, and she paid her debt to Nancy and society, so do NOT blame Tonya anymore. Tonya was ordered to pay Nancy $100,000 and do probation that is a steep fine , and then, to me, ILLEGALLY told she could no longer skate. God , we have murderers running loose as probation absconders, and fugatives, and rapists, child molesters, thieves, who number tens of thousands in each U.S.A. state (FACT), and we have many prisoners in prison who have never worked a hard day in their lives. So, I do not feel any one man or woman , is God, nor a JUDGE to force Tonya to give up her livlihood. We the taxpayers know oh too well the deep pockets of corruption in America. God bless our lovely Tonya Harding and all athletes who strived to reach the top and gave all they had to give in their sport. Never judge a person by one mistake in their lives, you don't have that right. This video. I shall NOT watch. You have no right to attack Tonya throughout her lifetime. fan of Tonya Harding, she was a fine , olympic skater, give her credit for the good she has accomplished.
1besieged you are delusional if you think that she shouldn’t have been banned from the sport. She actually hindered the investigation and mostly played a role in what happened. She is very lucky she didn’t have to serve hard time and she should count her blessings. With the new movie Out people who weren’t around at the time are getting a misguided observation. Despite her family issues and the psychological and detrimental effect it might have had it does not excuse what happened.
1besieged and evidence that points to Harding not even being aware the plot had materialized. I never saw her as one to go after another skater out of spots. I wouldn't be surprised if some one other than Hastings ex husband conspirated the attack. Look what it did for nancy? And look what it did to harding. Harding had to know they'd point the finger right at her. She would never risk it. No, I think they exploited her and framed her. Because she was unarguably the best skater of her time. Thoes triple axels..... Kerrigan wasn't talented enough to master the triple axel. But Harding was, and did!
Kristeen Izzio she admitted on video in an interview how she knew a few days after it happened. Change of story from what she said back then. She's not credible.
Reading the comments below, both are right. Tonya absolutely destroyed skating. So did the scoring changes. But so did what was important to score. Footwork was out. Jumps were in. The beauty died in favor of athleticism.
I really miss him doing the commentary. He gave fun, intelligent, insightful chat. All Tara Lipinski & Weir do are giggle & dress up like halloween while talking like nasty girls in hs. NOT a fan. Had to mute them at the Olympics and didn't bother tuning in past one day.
Nancy Kerrigan always reminded me of the spoiled sorority sister, a Regina George of skating. Don't think I'd have liked her at all. Never could stand those types of girls. Tanya on the other hand, was just a girl from the wrong side of town who had one shot to make it out. The judges didn't want Tanya. She wasn't enough of an ice princess. I've heard they treated her like trash.
cocokai this is such utter BS!! Nancy gained her strength and fortitude because her family struggled as well. She does not come from money. Why would anyone celebrate someone like Tanya who was involved in criminal activity over someone who took the right path and worked her ass off??
She reminded you of a spoiled sorority sister? Maybe you watch too many movies. Or you're just a judgmental person. To me, she just reminded me of a competitive figure skater...
Pro figure skaters received unbelievable contracts after Lillehammer, the Harding scandal actually helped those skaters who were able to strike while the iron was hot. I think it was awful how they kicked Harding to the curb never letting her make any kind of a living after this. There has to be a time for forgiveness and moving on. It's not like she committed murder for goodness sake. There has always been drama in figure skating.
I agree with that assessment. She should have gone to jail. But since she did not, I am of a mind for forgiveness, blacklisting her did not do skating any good. It's all water under the bridge now though.
Not sure she should have gone to jail for what was essentially a simple assault and battery. It wasn't even a class C felony. A simple assault & battery means you either pay a fine or go on probation. No gun was involved and no murder or mayhem ocurred. Harding paid a fine.
I think Harding's punishment was fair. To me nothing is worse in sports than cheating....Nancy could have gotten her knee broken. Tonya planned this and deserved what she got
A few things killed the sport. Number one was knowing exactly who would win every competition (Michelle Kwan, for example) because it was expected. The sport was rather stagnant, too. Remember how every single Todd Eldridge programme ended ? Same exact spin. You could call his entire programme with-out even watching it because it was choreographed exactly the same with different music. People aren't stupid; that's boring. Also, he mentioned this: it's cyclical. Skating will never a super-popular sport because it tends to reach a very specific audience -- namely, those who can afford it. When I was a skater at the Junior level in the 90s, the cost per year was close to $20,000 and that was on the lower end. I had to teach group-classes, tutor, baby-sit, walk dogs, give lessons to adult skaters, sell home-made cookies, etc. just so my parents wouldn't get buried under the cost. When you have a sport that is beautiful to watch on TV, then decide you want to try it only to realise affordability is nearly impossible, then the sport will suffer. The new scoring system also plays a role. Every skater is putting in crazy jumps at the half-way mark and every number has become predictable. There is no excitement in it anymore -- it's skate-by-numbers, so to speak. Watch the Russian ladies this year. They all have the same lines, same look, same type of programme. Nothing note-worthy or exciting, other than their interpretation of the music. Skating is a sport, but is also an artistic endeavour. When you know exactly what's coming with every step, you lose an element of excitement and get bored. I would also like to touch on the economy itself. US economy has been awful since early 2000s. People are struggling, depressed, and suffering, so they're not exactly paying attention to a sport like skating. The sport started losing its popularity around the same time that the economy tanked, and I've occasionally wondered if there is any correlation there.
You do what you have to do if you love a sport. Teaching adult skaters allowed me to not pay for one of my lessons per week. Walking dogs paid for my spins and jumps coach. Baby-sitting helped off-set the cost of another lesson a week so my parents only paid $150/week instead of $250. That’s a pretty big deal.
They are emerging. Zhou has a world title but at the junior level. He's debuting this season on the senior level. Chen debut at the senior level last season. He withdrew from the World Juniors two seasons ago. He won Four Continents but placed 6th at the Worlds last season. This season, he won one Challenger Series and two Grand Prix series. He will be competing in the Grand Prix finals in a week.
Tonya and Midori Ito were ahead of their time as world-class women athletes in ice skating. Such tragic success. I hope Tonya finally gets her long overdue recognition as one of the world's best ice skaters in history. Check out her face-off skating video vs Scott Hamilton! It puts her outstanding athletic ability in a whole new light.
Tanya was an athlete ONLY. she was ever an artist. Her heart never developed past jealousy and the lowest common denominator. She couldn’t compete with the likes of Hamilton, or any of the all Stars on Ice crew. Each one of them could take your breath away with the athletic along with the beauty of those routines. Kerrigan couldn’t either, Tanya and Suri Bonaly were never refined skaters. I miss the true artistic nature of the “sport”. It never recovered after the point system became all about the jumps alone. Boring now.
Never an artist and was arrested for domestic violence, 4 DUI’s, release of a sex tape with her ex-husband, trying to earn $$ women’s boxing and wrestling! Yeah, she is simply a disgusting person!!
Although he makes good points, and probably does believe what he is saying, he's forgetting that the whole world was changing during that time. Corporations were becoming more and more greedy and leaving employees behind, negotiating better deals for themselves and not worrying about their obligation to anyone outside the boardroom. It was no different in the world of sports. In fact, look at it today. Never have so few made so much, while the rest of us happily hand over our money for the "privilege" to watch it.
Most of the men at that time did not have a triple axel - Tonya came later and still most of the woman do not do them either way - Jumps are not everything - ice dancers do not jump and are far surfier pure skaters than most of the singles athletes.
@@baritonebynight Midori was the greatest jumper and technical skater of all time. At the Albertville Olympics, Scott rated Tonya the 2nd best technical skater in the world behind Midori.
Very interesting listening to Scott Hamilton, such a respected member of this field. What really turned me away after being enthralled growing up in the 60s, 70s, and 80s was when they went to the strictly compulsory programs even in the free skate: it was all about compulsory elements and they just got incredibly boring. I still remember when the free skates in the seventies and eighties were so exciting because anything was possible and you would see any number of unusual elements. But I believe in the late 80s and 90s I don't know exactly when it happened when compulsory elements led to everyone doing the same thing.
Even after listening to his explanation, I don't see how Harding/Kerrigan scandal is to blame...These developments would have occured that way anyway...I loved figure skating until the late 1990's and now I don't due to: no more exciting figure skaters around, they are bland and somehow all the same and really boring to watch; the unfair judges that made me start disliking the sport; the new scoring system; the fact that it is just about jumping now; the fact that the sport is dominated by little girls, there are no more women skating in the championships...Those things killed figure skating, Harding/Kerrigan had nothing to do with it.
The reason I quit watching figure skating is that you are no longer allowed to just watch the skating in peace. The commentary never stops. The music coupled with the art in ice is ruined with NON STOP BLABBING.
That scandal put figure skating on the map. But people just got sick of the golden girls being crowned before they ever stepped on the ice. And the vote fixing - long after Tonya skated.
Oh, be quiet, Scott. I used to admire you so much. First you said getting rid of compulsory figures would "kill the sport" (and I agree they are a loss); then you became Mr. Supermacho, making homophobic and frat-boy statements, acting arrogant like you're God's gift to women, etc. Please spare us your "It's all gone to crap" crap. The ISU has been killing the sport for a long time and you did nothing while it was happening.
At present, it is very difficult to find any coverage of figure skating, either in print or on television.I miss being able to read about the current year's crop of promising skaters and to see their performances.
Tonya Harding is the reason way more eyes were glued to the tv. However the quality of skating, the style of that era was so much better then today. Routines are too full of fast changing elements, flailing arms and really crappy music.
Lack of scoring credibility has, and still does, hurt this sport. Bargains made, and corruption in judging, etc. Did you know that in 1998 the US judge voted for Kwan over Lipinski? Tara was clearly more deserving, but even bias with US judges exists, not just "Russian" and Chinese judging. Even with the scoring methods changing dramatically, cheaters have found work-arounds for what should be, correct scoring. These days, judging is manipulated through alleged 'under rotations' and 'grades of execution' which take what could be a quantifiable result into a dubious result (here's a hint: US skaters are always accused of under rotation, Russians apparently never under rotate, LOLOLOL; another one is the Flutz vs Lutz (US skaters Flutz, Russians, Lutz), LOL. I still watch, don't get me wrong and thanks to Dick Button over the last 40 years, I know quite a bit about skating. But I think the results are largely fixed in advance by corrupt people who should have nothing to do with the sport. During the Olympics, watch the results in the team competition to see which countries are in bed with which countries.... make those deals, and keep hiring judges caught fixing outcomes... SMH
If you're talking about the Ladies Figure Skating event at the 1998 Winter Olympic Games in Nagano. Lipinski got ranked number 1 by 6 out of 9 judges. The remaining three judges ranked her number 2. The judge from the U.S. was in that minority. But what counts in the scoring system at that time is only the lowest majority: the number 1s from the 6 judges. The scores from the minority judges which includes the U.S. judge did not matter. If there were to be a tie in the lowest majority, then they add the numbers from only the lowest majority judges to form the total lowest majority score. If there were still a tie of the total lowest majority score, then they add the numbers from all 9 judges to form the total of all the ordinals. The lowest total wins.
I knew that but thanks for replying. How the US judge or any of the other 2 placed Tara 2nd is ridiculous. Tara’s 3L3L and other combo alone should have been enough for unanimous 1st place placements, especially since Tara also possessed grace and style
All except one of Lipinski's technical marks: 5.9 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.9 were higher than all except one of Kwan's technical marks: 5.7 5.7 5.8 5.7 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.8 Lipinski would have still won were there only five judges ranking her number 1. And she would have still won were she to place 3rd in the Short Program instead of 2nd. The television-viewing audience has the benefit of the best angles from several cameras to watch a figure skater no matter where she is on the rink. The nine judges are spread out along one side of the rink and get only their sole angle to watch a skater with no video playback (at the time). So what you have seen on television may not be necessary exactly what one judge at the far side of the rink has seen.
I'm not going to pretend that I know as much from the professional side of figure skating as you do but, as a viewer, what I remember about the Lipinski/Kwan matchup was that Tara was adorable but looked like a little perky jumping bean while Michelle showed both the grace AND athleticism that I loved about skating. I remember watching those Olympics and feeling sad because it was sort of the moment when it became more about the jumps than the overall performance.
Hi there - Michelle Kwan had years to increase her difficulty and chose to not do so; Tara was a former US and World Champion when she won that Olympics having beaten Michelle before in major competitions and from a skating perspective, Tara was very expressive with strong skating skills. As great as Michelle was, I do think the judges coddled her - if she skated cleanly, she won, even if others took more risks and also skated cleanly. How truly great Michelle Kwan could have been both artistically and technically is gone because of that judging coddling. In 1998 Michelle was taught a lesson by Tara; she proved she didn't learn it in 2002 when Sara Hughes was finally given credit for the amazing skater she was. I'm not a Michelle hater, I cheered for Michelle, but to reduce Tara and Sara as jumping beans is inaccurate. Michelle was also not the most athletic (that would have gone to Bonaly or Slutskaya); but Michelle was a wonderful ambassador for the sport, an all-time great, and certainly should only reflect on her career with enormous pride.
Wow Scott, clearly showing with the direct/indirect insults to Harding the true prejudice that existed in the sport. He clearly dislikes her personally, to say the least, which is weird considering all the benefits that you acquired after the incident. Maybe a thank you and apology to Harding would suffice at least? To discredit her amazing skating ability is a massive disservice to figure skating and to her. Everyone wanted someone to hate, and they latched onto Harding who they viewed as the easiest one to do it too. Shame on those people.
@@acousticshadow4032 Because of something she may have had no involvement in? The skating comittee was already against her from the start. She didn't fit into their 'ideal skater' aesthetic/performance and if they could have removed her at any point they would have. This was an easy out for them and ruined one of the things Tonya loved most in life, skating. All she wanted to do was skate & they took that because of something someone else did. Doesn't seem very justified?
@@starace4031 ~ Are your meds up to date? Of course she claimed ignorance of the plot to assault Nancy Kerrigan, and that was dubious at best (a flat-out lie, imho). But even so, Tonya made the (bad) choice to run with those guys. So, yes - she is to blame. The 'ideal skater' part of your narrative is BS, and irrelevant. Tonya's problem was in her head, not her skates.
@@acousticshadow4032 wow...seems like you might need to speak to someone about all this pent up anger. I mean after all, we'll never know what truly happened. Sure we can assume that she knew/didn't know what was going on but we weren't there so cannot be factually correct. I hope making that comment helped release some of that. Maybe get some meds of your own before lashing out at others. Hope you feel better.
I would suggest a psychosocial explanation for the impact of the Harding/Karrigan scandal. I think there was an innocence, beauty and purity associated (consciously and subconsciously) with figure skating. The ugliness and brutality of the Harding/Karrigan scandal destroyed that innocence, beauty and purity. As a result, people were profoundly less interested in watching it as doing so brought up something ugly and brutal inside themselves.
Scott Hamilton also said [getting rid of compulsory] figures could kill the sport." ruclips.net/video/ieRF2skq5Cw/видео.html When the judging system changed in 2004 that pretty much killed the sport. Programs now all look pretty much alike: it's like what watching compulsory figures used to be like: formulaic.
People did pay to see her box, also to promote wrestling. Maybe if she was promoting figure skating instead it would have helped them instead of boxing and wrestling.
She wasn't banned from professional competitions. The reason she didn't participate in much professional skating was because her own peers in the industry refused to work with her. Even if you don't believe any of the things that the idiots associated with her ex-husband had to say about her involvement, Tonya admitted herself that she knew that they were involved in the attack when she got back to Portland after the Nationals and didn't say anything. That's why usfsa banned her for life, they felt she betrayed a fellow competitor and the sport's governing body in the United States.
@@Nettiezoo that's not correct. She was banned from the official sport of figure skating, meaning the amateur Olympic eligible world. Professional competitions were not sanctioned by the ISU and she did compete in a couple of them in I think 1999
No, what turned me off was Tara Limpinski and Johnny Weir becoming the NBC skating commentators PLUS the stupid "team" competition that was added to the Olympic medal competition - what a joke!!!
I have had it up to here with direct and indirect insults toward Tonya Harding... BUT, what Scott says about a bubble economy makes sense. The monstrous hype that Hard Copy, etc. created around the 1994 scandal created instability in this sport. I do think that pro figure skating has become a place where more expressive skaters, like Johnny Weir, can find a home, when they are inevitably disenfranchised by amateur skating (stuffy judges, puppetmasters of the IOC, and so forth). I wish that pro skating had been there in that way for Surya Bonaly, for example. But she was in the mix too early.
Gymnastics implemented a new scoring system as well yet is doing incredibly well. With figure skating, I know there’s little to know accountability and the scores cannot be trusted. Gymnastics is even more difficult to understand that figure skating, yet it wasn’t hurt by the new scoring system. Let’s face it. Figure skating has little to no credibility at this point because the system lacks integrity and everyone can sense it. For instance, if a gymnast did what Medvedeva does and cheated their elements, they would quickly be thrown to the bottom of the pile and become irrelevant within a couple competitions. But I’m figure skating, her cheated jumps go uncalled and she held up by dubious program component scores.
Yes, the scoring changes destroyed skating! First, nobody understands the notion of a "personal best", or how many points constitute a good or great score. That is confusing to most viewers. Also, it's truly heinous that judges are not held to account for faulty or biased scoring, with anonymity of their scores to hide behind. Now, they award points for "transitions"-but who in the non-skating public even knows what that means? Next, (and for me, the worst), is that, due to the urgent need to rack up as many points as possible, the skaters' programs all look the same...It's really boring: all jump-jump-jump, and- hey, let's throw a half dozen different positions into this single spin! I long for the days when a skater could hold a beautiful layback position or sit spin and you could admire the beauty for more than a millisecond. (sigh) I used to be a competitor and avid watcher, but it's so dull now that I rarely view competitions or exhibitions.
Exactly! Also, because of the incessant need to keep on adding technical difficulty into a program, a skater's competitive career is cut very short. They all get injured so fast. Or, they're only able to perform the tricks when they're still prepubescent, but once their body changes, goodbye! Thus, there are no icons of the sport anymore, like Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Kristi Yamaguchi, all of whom competed for years at a very high level.
I highly disagree with Scott Hamilton!!! I think what ultimately hurt skating were the horrible judging scandals!!! The scoring system may have been easier to understand before, but that old system was horribly unfair and blatantly dishonest!!! The old system, with the school figures was used to rewards certain skaters the judges liked while holding back skaters they didn’t like!!!
Speaking as a person who never followed skating TWICE Tonya and Nancy brought in the non fan to look into this sport. The second was iTonya for the newer generation.
So why is he blaming Tonya Harding for the demise of skating? Because a rush of money came into the future skating association, and they rewarded skaters for staying amateur? How is that her fault?
He's just butthurt that the success of amateur skating killed pro skating (and thus also hurt him financially). He's always been very petty and narcisstic in that regard.
It seems impossible to me that Scott feels that the Tonya Harding scandal destroyed skating. That's giving her way too much power. I still enjoy it very much.
Michelle Kwan's the most known figure skater in the world now so how did the bottom fall out? She was after Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding. Michelle's been in Campbell commercial with Nicole Bobek and Tara Lipinski. also Michelle Kwan in another one with Kristi Yamagucci. Tara Lipinski also showed up on seventh Heaven TV show.
Actually Michelle Kwan is a PERFECT example of someone who continued to skate way past her prime because there was no way of turning pro. If she'd have gone out on top, she would be regarded as the best skater of all time, for sure. The last Olympics she competed in, she didn't even make the cut to BE in the Olympics and petitioned the board to let her go based on past merits. Then she didn't do well. No athlete wants that.
Jenn, some of your facts are wrong. Michelle did petition to go to the Olympics and she tried out in front of those in charge. She made the team. However, she had to pull out at the last minute because of injury.
Professional status allowed a skater to make money when amateur status prevented them from doing so. But when Olympic-eligible status allowed competitions with prize money, there was no need for a skater to turn pro.
It's his truth. His story. Not yours. Doesn't matter whether you agree or even disagree. You weren't surrounded in Olympic-Level competitive ice skating like he was for years.
What destroyed it for me. Is the stacking of jumps. over artistry, & fast beautiful spins. Most spins now are slow, & labored. All emphasis is now placed. 0n one element. It is no longer interesting to watch. Individual personality, style, & flair. Almost nonexistent. It has mostly become a series of jumps. Every other component has been left to atrophy. In terms of singles at least.
Seriously, I think the wording is a bit wrong. Tonya herself didn't ruin skating, the scandal did. If you think about it how can you market skating after such a horrible event to top that? And this new judging system is awful! It's so confusing. The 6.0 system was a lot easier to understand by the casual fan.
I don't think a casual fan would understand ordinals, lowest majority, total factored placements, etc. that is in the 6.0 system. It is still used in local competitions. The 6.0 scoring system is simpler, but the detail used to come up with the marks was hidden behind the scenes. The current point-based system brought all that detail (in the form of the protocol sheet) to the forefront.
Not entirely correct. True that the ultimate placements were based on a few factors, but the specific mark given by each judge (5.7 for example) evaluating the performance was straightforward, on-the-spot, and often based on quick perception along with some advance knowledge of program content. With all marks being relative and based on a perfect 6.0, this is ALL a viewer needs to see to have a better understanding before everything is calculated for a final placement; viewers understand there is more than one judge. The current protocol sheet is NOT seen by TV or audience viewers and adds nothing to the understanding of the sport for the casual viewer.
The protocol sheet is not shown on television, but it is definitely accessible online on the competition's website for anyone to view and it shows all the detail that is calculated to arrive at the final score. In contrast on the 6.0 system, no such detail is kept to account how a technical mark is calculated.
The 6.0 is too subjective you are ranking the players on only two marks technical and artistic. The second is very subjective. The new system gives you credit for what you actually do and how you do it. The second mark can still be manipulated but it is more difficult. Sale and Pelletier may have looked better as no one made noticeable mistakes. The program of the Russians was more difficult and more complete. Also they weren't repeating the same program three years in a row.
No, the opposite actually happened and the scandal infused the sport with new viewership (and thus more $, more shows, more opportunities for the skaters, etc.). Marketing wasn't a big concern when people couldn't get enough of the sport, for a time. I agree with you that Tonya herself didn't ruin skating, and I find it amusing that Scott threw her under the bus when he was one of the people who profited the most from the scandal.
I really like Scott Hamilton but I disagree. The media made a circus out of a Yarding/Kerrigan debacle. Network ratings and greed is what happened to figure skating.
This guy certainly didnt help skating in the long run. He always had the same cast of buddies on his shows. Where was place for new champions to perform? Did he support young skaters in any way? In the end about 20 skaters profited the rest got very little.
FitThickChic if memory serves, there was great excitement for these two to compete. They were both world class athletes, very different from each other = tv viewership. Seems figure skating would have been up for that but I guess you never know.
The change from the 6.0 system to the current "Code of Points" is what has killed the sport. Since the name of the game is to collect as many points in order to win, the skaters are practically doing the same technical routines as the next skater. Gone are the days when artistry and innovative choreography ruled the sport. Moreover, since skaters are always trying to push their technical content further (to amass more points), prepubescent girls have now dominated the sport. It's easier to land quads when you weigh 65 lbs. Thus, all we see today are kids on skates. If you want a certain demographic -- say, adults in their 30s or above and with disposable income -- to buy tickets at these competitions, the sport needs evolve in order to cater to them more. This age group isn't interested in watching little girls compete. They want to see maturity, elegance, and style on the ice.
I think it is often forgotten how Scott Hamilton won Olympic gold but his skating when he won gold was no longer top notch. He had been replaced skating wise by Brian Orser. It was kt haind of sad. Yes, Brian didn't have the school figures but people loved the skating and sadly as charming as Scott tried to be he was second class at skating
In all things, I think there's an element of covert actions and nothing is perfect. Sometimes the best doesnt win, sometimes, it's beyond their control. I have always thought there was an undercurrent of favoritism for one skater or another, amonst the judges, but I dont know that for sure. I think that also applies to beauty contests, and other competitive things.
skaterboy3718 You are right Scott even discussed this in his book Landing It. He knew both Brian Orser and Brian Boitano were far superior technical skaters and it was best to retire.
What a great point! I honestly FORGOT about professional skating. I used to watch it all the time as a young figure skater myself. And it IS sad to see the great athletes play or skate long after their peak. He's totally correct.
I was a huge fan of men and women's figure skating back in the 80's and 90's but started losing interest when the men began trying to land quads unsuccessfully. Clean routines were replaced by a crash fest. Not fun to watch.
I would watch a lot more skating if NBC would broadcast it. And when they do it is just a couple of hours showing just the toop skaters a couple times a year. In my opinion it is the networks who have destroyed the audience for skating.
It really did …. I remember Olympic skating was about the only thing we watched Olympic wise. Figure skating was IT. There was so much excitement. Then Harding and Kerrigan kinda just it’s lost it’s magic somehow.
He's gotta know that people aren't watching TV so much anymore. The mid to late 90s is when the internet took off. Professional skating was done in because of the internet, not so much the scandal.
No Scott Tonya put skating on the map. The corrupt ISU and the ridiculous new score system that focus on nothing but points and jumps is what's ruined the sport. The Olympics start this Thursday and I'm not excited at all.
Winter Olympics also has skiing, snow boarding, hockey, speed skating, etc. not just about figure skating. Summer Olympic has other sports Track and field, wrestling, tennis, Badminton, horse jumping, swimming, high diving into water, gymnastics, etc.
We need another Tonya Harding for today to help put figure skating back on the map! The ISU needs to allow Tonya Harding to coach at least! Imagine all the press coverage buzz she would bring to any event where one of her students is participating...given her past something may go down so you'll definitely tune in live!
I see this as an old post with more recent comments and with the Olympics 2018 coming up, I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth from a long time fan. Having watched figure skating for years, including live shows and competitions but not watching or attending events much any longer, here are my top reasons (no particular order) why I am no longer as interested as I once was and Tonya is not one of them. I still watch, still love it, but I’m not as drawn in. I most often record the program, then use the FF and Mute to get through the show. I no longer attend live events. 1. Judging: corrupt, anonymous, blocks, favorites, predetermined, no credibility, collusion 2. Choreography: 2-3 year old programs skated over and over or skated to new music with a new costume, “theme” skating (I’m a bird, a plane, a car etc.), backloading the jumps (makes the program lop sided and leads to other issues, as in quick but throw away transitions and not holding the form long enough) 3. Music: lyrics, screechy, overused songs (Carmen, Bolero, Scheherazade) and any song that has to do with birds4. Skating form: very Robotic, no holding the form or element long enough, sometimes a quick but throwaway transition, round backs on sit or other spins, no pointed toes 5. Announcing: Johnny and Tara talking and commenting during the entire program 6. Facial expressions: pained constipated faces, furrowed brows and drama faces all for (real?) emotion7. No joy: many programs are skated to sad, dramatic, depressing music with few smiles or joy
No that's not true, it was immensely popular up until about 2003. Arenas were packed and skaters were getting standing ovations and people literally getting up and clapping along to their music. Then the scoring change happened and it became a jumping contest once again as well as the networks being finnicky about broadcasting it and then it started going down the tubes.
Starting at 2:30, Scott has a good point why Tonya-Nancy has hurt skating. This is especially true with U.S. skaters that no major new talent has emerged since Michelle Kwan retired.
He has no right to state such a thing. Harding was never given the opportunity to skate as a professional. If skating died blame himself. He never gave Tonya Harding an opportunity to recoup or salvage a career. He didn't innovate anything he didn't diversify. He took no risks. His business model was stale. He didn't open up his platform to international champions. He didn't respond to the changes he clung to the past in the face of change. Instead he hired People like Sara Hughes, Michelle Kwan, Evan Lysacek, Sasha Cohen and Tara Lipinski . Under the old rules all of these were Olympic champions and each were given shows that he built around them and should have done well. But they did not. . Not everyone can hold a box office just because they win an Olympic medal or Olympic & world gold medals. Not everyone is a "star." The bottom fell out because they were promoting his skaters by tearing down other champions who could hold a box office. Say what you will Harding could draw audiences. She was BANNED from every pro event. Don't blame Harding.
What destroyed skating for me and for other viewers I know was the judging scandals and the subsequent scoring changes. Viewers want to understand the scoring. When a skater receives mostly 5.4 marks, you know he or she didn't do too well. When he or she gets 5.9s or 6.0s, they did great. But when a skater receives 235 points, what does that mean? It's only relevant to the other skaters scores. How do we know the judges are not cheating? If a Russian judge gives her country's skaters high scores and better skaters low scores, we will never know. Tonya Harding did not ruin skating. The ISU did.
As far as i’m concerned the Russians are buring skating even further with this recent doping scandal. Worse than that they’re becoming like womens gymnastics where they’res rampant abuse of young ladies by the Russian skating federation.
Nah, the IJS is okay. Fans enjoy studying the score sheets to compare elements across competitions and between skaters.
But biased scoring has made the objectivity pointless. PCS makes no sense and -5+5 means more room to manipulate scores. You're spot on about the ISU being a reason for the rot though.. they need to improve to reduce biased scoring.
Tonya Harding was a talented Country Girl surrounded by a lot of narcissistic fools. They were the ones who f**ked her up! Her little "hurricane 🌀 in a bottle 🍼" was an one-of-a-kind "freak show" which wasn't what dealt skating a debilitating blow. It was the ISU! They upended the sport with the scoring controversy of the mid 1990s!
There is room for lots of manipulation through GOE. Remember Chanflation? Patrick Chan could fall 3 times in his free skate and still win.
Agree
No, the 2002 pairs scandal and vote fixing was exposed was the worst thing that happened to the sport. Once they went to that new scoring system the no one could understand, people lost interest.
If you understand math you will understand the system.
Jose Hill I think the worst thing that happened to this sport was the rigged ladies competition in Sochi. Russia had no shame, we'll both are the worst things that happened to this sport.
I think the new scoring system is a lot more fair to skaters, but it took me a while to get used to it as a spectator. It is also more transparent, and it is only recently that I've adjusted to glancing at the box in the upper left corner, seeing how each group of elements is graded. At first I thought it took some drama out of the scoring but now it doesn't bother me. However, I understand that it is possible how the new system is too complicated for casual viewers and therefore has reduced the audience for figure skating.
Could it be that one reason people don't watch skating as much, or attend professional shows, is that since 2005 and RUclips was born, and there were other online sites for people to watch skating competitions so conveniently, people get their fill that way? It is saturation. Also, the internet has opened up whole new worlds to explore, interact and perform.
Young skaters in the US used to be isolated by becoming figure skaters. Besides school, skating was so time consuming they didn't even know what else was out there. And talk about chaining them to a grindstone, compulsory figures were the most expensive, time-consuming and limiting of all skating activities, yet they were required for many skaters.
I account for the ascendance of Russian and Japanese skaters as having to do with coaching methods. While many American coaches still seem to be disoriented over the loss of the idiotic compulsory figures, Russian, Japanese and Canadian coaches have moved on and employed the most advanced scientific developments in studying jump and spin techniques, and producing better skaters. Rather than a coach teaching just what was taught to them when they were skaters, coaches are studying the science behind these things. The role of the choreographer has also gone up.
I cannot stand Scott Hamilton.
@@sheriffburfordt.justice4488 why not?
The scandalous judging and favouritism over skillful skating is what turned he away from watching skating. Same thing with gymnastics.
Same
SO very true!!!
Exactly!
So true and I could not have stated It any better!!!
Don't blame Tonya. It's not her fault. The new scoring system ruined everything. I lost interest after the scoring change, the judging scandal, etc are what ruined skating.
Its Tonya and the scandal too
Yes, do blame Tonya. Ms Anything to Win
S
Don’t. You must be joking. Of course she’s guilty.
It's not Tonya's fault.
Did they ever put Compulsory Figures back in?
The late 80s & early 90s were absolutely fantastic when it came to figure skating. I'm happy I got to grow up during that era.
92 Olympics skaters falling on ice?
Me too!
Yeah, there was Ice Capades, Champions on Ice and Stars on Ice. Now in America it’s just Stars on Ice. Skaters have to tour in Asia now to make money.
Same!!
For someone so involved in skating, Hamilton seems to have no idea whatsoever what really led to the demise of his sport. Mr. Hamilton, don't blame Tonya Harding. Blame the International Skating Union and the Skating Federations that allowed the scandal of Salt Lake in 2002 to happen. It was post Olympics in Salt Lake 2002, that skating went completely downhill. People left the sport because they realized that not only was a lot of the sport "fixed", but the people in charge supported the deception, and turned a blind eye to allow it to happen. A couple of years after Salt Lake, one of the greatest marketing assets that figure skating had (the 6.0 marking system), was abandoned. It was replaced by a complicated, non-transparent system that confused and alienated people. Arenas emptied, sponsors left, networks balked, and thus....the sport is a shell of itself because, instead of getting rid of the corrupt judges and officials, it changed its business model and marking system. This drove the fans, and sponsors away for good. None of this was Tonya Harding's doing, and Hamilton can't fool those who know better and used to be fans of the sport from blaming Tonya Harding. Maybe those who know nothing about skating will believe you, but people who used to follow the sport know that you haven't got a clue about why figure skating really died.
Have you actually met anyone that said, 'Oh, I'm never going to watch figure skating because of that new scoring system."?
Galileocan g damn!!! You just kicked some serious knowledge.
Galileocan g I agree it would be ridiculous to blame the Tonya H/Nancy K scandal for the demise of figure skating. Ironically Tonya Harding was banned for life yet corrupt, crooked judges were forgiven and allowed to return. Whistle blowers got punished for speaking up. That didn’t exactly make the powers that be in this sport look like they cared about sportsmanship. For me those scandals did more damage than the Harding mess.
Though I kind of see what he was saying drawing links from the sudden surge in viewership in 94 to longer term economic changes affecting the sport. Really the title sounds more overdramatized than his actual words.
I don't know. It sounds as if the ratings boom led to unrealistically high expectations for the future and the money people overinvested, after which there was a sharp correction. I'm sure Salt Lake didn't help, but I stopped watching in the late 90 s and I don't remember there being a lot of prime time figure skating on anymore by then. I missed Johnny Weir's entire career!
neoisis yes. The title is misleading. But you clicked on it, and so did I :/ #clickbait
The new point system was what killed the sport; Tonya only made it widely popular. I remember in 1996, skating was on TV 24/7.
@Tress Braga
Skating was widely popular way before Tonya got there and continued after her downfall.
It started with Brian Boitano.
And we have Scott to thank for the crappy new scoring
yes scott killed figure skating!!!
Exactly, that is what killed it, that stupid scoring. Because now everything is how many position changes can I get in one turn. The artistry has about died
Graham is, by far, the best interviewer in the business because he asks questions and then listens and doesn't feel it necessary to talk, talk, talk.
What turned me off of figure skating is when the took out 'figure' and 'skating.' Now it is all jump jump jump, forget the footwork.
There is a figure skating discipline where it is all about the footwork and no jumps, it's called ice dancing.
I agree, there was a beauty in the precision work of the figures. I was sad when they took them out.
Jumping beans. No compulsory figures
The US Skating association destroyed skating by reserving it only for Stepford wife's daughters. Tonya Harding did not fit into what they wanted to project as an image of US skating, therefore they were systematically downgrading her. Shame on US skating officials.
Anna Warner I love that Stepford wive’s daughters” LOL
Yes! I listened to a pod cast about Tonya Harding today. In it they called figure skating a snob sport because even though Tonya and Nancy’s economic backgrounds weren’t THAT far apart, Nancy had the figure skating princess look and Tonya didn’t. And they looked down on her for it and they treated her like she didn’t belong cause she didn’t fit their mold. And they scored her according to their feelings for her instead of for her talent.
Why do so many pretend that Tonya was the poor victim of a snobby elitist figure skating community?? Her trailer-trash ass won the US Championship in 1991! She won a silver medal in the World Championship that same year!! She fell in the rankings afterwards because her performances were not up to her 91 brilliance, plain and simple. It had nothing to with her love of trucks and flannel and lack of Vera Wang costumes. She simply stopped delivering the goods after her awesome peak.
@@erika9763she got lazy
I liked Tonya & enjoyed her talent. I don't know anything of background admin attitudes. However,her actions were absolutely atrocious.
It was the "fixing" scandals that killed it.
Fred Dalkeith When they left the 6.0 system, I lost interest.
the ISU did all this. Eligible/ineligible. It's all crap. If you're not skating for medals, there is no life for you other than teaching. Ice Capades, Champions on Ice, and Ice Follies no longer exist. Stars on Ice, originally started by Scott himself in 1986, is on its last legs. Professional doesn't exist. It's dead once you leave what used to be the amateur side. It's wretched. I've been in this sport since 1976, I am bored to tears with what's happened.
Same here. I stopped watching skating years ago because of all of the mess that skating has become.
Disney sometimes still does ice shows, last I knew anyway.
What turned me off to figure skating as whole was the scandals and the vote fixing.
uky1985 ... Me Too !....I just like most people tuned in for the figure skating segment of the Olympics that year to see the "Showdown" between Harding and Kerrigan. The media did a great job as it relates to 'ratings' with hyping up the drama to be "Settled on the ice" between these two based on the scandal, But I got [like you say] "Turned-off" not by the scandal, But by the vote. The Russian chick Oksana had flaws in her performance as was shown via countless angles of replays, but still managed to win gold ! Nancy Kerrigan got cheated ! I was through with figure skating after that point !!!...You're correct, the voting was definitely a "Fix" !!!
came here to say the same thing! sure the kerrigan/Harding scandal was a big ducking deal, but the scoring was the real bullshit. so many skaters were robbed. this guy? is being a little bitch.
And so for those reasons, I stopped watching because the judges constantly marked good skaters like Tanya Harding down! It got worse when black skaters Debbie Thomas and Surya Boboli came on the scene they were black balled because of their race! The racism was so obvious! Since then there have only been 2-3 good black skaters! Parents don't invest in sports where their children are cheated! Shame on ice skating world! Next to their sex scandals, they need reform!
Andso Kerrigan didn't get cheated, she messed up and doubled her opening triple, and Baiul changed her long program and added an extra triple double combination at the end (which is harder, as one is tired then). This pretty much forced the judges to make the decisions they made on technicals. If Kerrigan had added another triple after missing the first one, she probably would have won...
Fredricka27 In the Olympics that year Surya Bonaly fell on her opening jump, that had nothing to do with her race (and I believe she still placed 4th despite the fall). Also, Debbie Thomas was good and medaled in '88 but Katarina Witt was better- Katarina also beat out a whole lot of white skaters too, not just Debbie Thomas. The problem is that American media hype up American athletes, and Americans are always bitter when their athletes don't win, but Americans do win a lot though, even non-whites like Yamaguchi in 1992. And no, Lipinski didn't beat Kwan because of race issues either, but because she had a more complicated technical program, and she skated faster.
Funny how he says the Harding/Kerrigan scandal destroyed professional skating, but that didn't prevent him from reaping the subsequent rewards because of the scandal.
He admits he seriously cashed in from the Harding/Kerrigan scandal
Can you say lapdog for the ISU? He can spin this all he wants, but backroom deals and an erroneously corrupt scoring system killed the sport.
Hamilton has been very critical of the ISU.
The downfall of figure skating was eliminating compulsory figures followed by a decade of horrible judges.
Good riddance to compulsory figures. Hardly anyone cared for them.
Yeah, I kinda felt compulsory skating only benefited the non-athletic skaters. Its a sport for Christ's sakes!
Say what? I watched skating throughout the 90s and I have never seen anyone do compulsory figures in my life.
@@ravenel2 they weren't televised. The compulsories were around for decades, and they were a requirement. If you didn't do well at the compulsories, you didn't even get the chance to do the short program or the long program. The compulsories usually weren't even done in front of an audience
.
@@JustGigi319 I am old and have seen the compulsories on TV when I was much younger and they were so dull to watch. I am not sure if this was in the 70's or 80's.I was too young to understand what they were doing just know that they skated a figure 8 slowly.
Such a miss leading headline...I agree with what he says about amateur and pro...very true...but the incident with Tonya and Nancy did not kill Figure Skating or American Figure Skating at all! You want to blame someone, blame the governing body “USFSA” for failing to train its coaches and athletes properly and educate them on the constant change of the code of points! The governing body is still holding onto the past and what made American skaters so dominate, and that kind of skating doesn’t work for the current state of the sport
Although Scott speaks calmly and tries to insert complicated lingo, his argument is pretty incoherent and rambling. It wasn't Tonya Harding or that scandal that "destroyed" figure skating, it was a bunch of subsequent decisions made by the International Skating Union and the declining quality of performers post-Michelle Kwan/Sasha Cohen.
In terms of "professional competition", I'm assuming he's indirectly discussing Tara Lipinski's decision to only rarely appear in the remaining pro competitions of the late 1990s into the 2000s (and even then, her programs were heavily watered down and not terribly interesting choreographically) and Michelle Kwan and Todd Eldredge's decision to remain at the amateur level through Salt Lake in 2002.
Plenty of skaters went "pro" after Nagano -- just not the ones that mattered and not the ones who would push the technical envelope. Skaters, in 1998, retired from the Olympic level to skate an occasional double axel for cash, not to hold up their technical level, luring people in. Post-Lillehamer, you had many MANY female skaters still going after Triple Lutzes, pushing technical boundaries. By the mid-2000s (I'm thinking primarily of Ice Wars), pro level competitions had almost no technical requirements and, as such, ratings to match.
Alot of fans miss the old scoring system,esp.after the mess in Salt Lake City.
I never paid attention to ice skating before the Tonya/Nancy scandal so I have to disagree with him. The new scoring system ruined skating... doing away with figures didn't help. Skaters that were competing in the 90s were still taught how to do them when they were learning and it paid off. I would give anything to see a proper take off on a flip or a lutz. Skaters today have shitty form.
I never liked Sasha and thought she was overrated but I agree. Michelle Kwan IMO was the last great USA skater. Sarah was great too but up to Michelle's last Olympics the USA has a strong group of ladies over the 80s and 90s.
Jib Wangler he appeared professionally. He took over the Ice Capades and attempted to keep skating on top. This man has spent his life giving to the sport and he nailed exactly what happened. You people who say he is incoherent must be drinking or doping or both. When the guy was not fighting cancer which did hit him twice that I know of, it's a wonder he ever skated again!
I dont so much about what he is saying and even though what happened to Nancy K was a very bad thing, it also put figure skating on the map. Got me to watch and then I saw Michelle Kwan and that was that and I followed her for a decade. That level of artistic talent is long gone thanks to the new rules. . its just run around and jump, jump again, and jump again. Once Michelle was done, so was I.
Scot Wilson I felt the same with Yuna Kim, since she retire (in the worst winter Olympics ever aka Sochi) I was done. Figure skating it's not the same anymore...
Karen Reed I could be still in love with this sport if it was fair or have a good scoring system, but since it's so biased and they gave scores without real fundament, I just can't.
Yes, Tanya met some bad people, listened to the wrong things and took some ugly turns in her life, but destroy figure skating?...she did not! She was one of the top female athletes at the time, she changed the face of the sport with her spectacular physical strength and creative tenacity. She did more for the sport than anyone during her reign. She ruined her career, but not the sport. I hope she made some money off that movie.
If you watch every other report on the subject, Harding was the best thing to ever happen to skating. Yes, the incident was terrible. However, the televised 1994 Olympic match-up, with Harding and Kerrigan was the 6th most viewed television program in history, up to that point. Not the 6th most watched sporting event. The 6th most watched thing on television, ever. The top 5 were: The final episode of MASH, Who shot JR?, one episode of Roots and two of the Superbowls. As a result, skating went from some once every four year, B-level event, people watched only during the Olympics, to a multi-million dollar industry. The end result of all this was: several million more people became fans of the sport.
Harding didn't destroy skating............. Notwithstanding Harding and her boyfriend's obvious trailer park element and crime............. What HAS hurt figure skating and this speaks chiefly to the women is the painfully open fix-is-in judging, USFSA politics and the rest as carried forward by NBC Sports that has claimed the fix-is-in winner before the SP, all the more LP.
You have no idea of my background and you make your remark. I have to be in Colorado Springs about 40% of a given work year. You are aware of what is in Colorado Springs, and what takes place there, right?
Do. The. Math.
death2pc Harding's ex husband attacked Karigan
Really? Wow, I had no idea. Thanks for the tip. When was that? Certainly it wouldn't have been just before trails in Detroit, back in '94 via two contract attackers as per Jeff Gillooly. Whew knew.......?
I had a bigger problem with the judging in 1994 than the Tonya Harding incident. The Eastern bloc judges against the Western judges. There were 5 Easterners and 4 Westeners .Change the number to 5-4 Western and Nancy Kerrigan wins the gold. The Cold War was still on. Nancy Kerrigan really outskated Oksana Baiul for the gold, but the 5 crooked Eastern judges prevailed. They were always cheating Americans in the summer and winter Olympics. The absolute worse I have ever seen was the 1972 basketball game. They were going to keep playing those last three seconds over and over until the Soviets got that winning basket. The 1994 figure skating was rigged as well. Oksana skated so mediocre with those bad landings that the Eastern judges looked the other way on that and two of the Western judges saw it and placed her 3rd behind Liu Chen of China. I have less respect for them than I have for Tonya Harding.
NO he didn't ......
watch ANYTHING TO WIN and you can get it straight
Thanks for publishing Scott Hamilton's insights. I appreciate hearing his perspectives.
It’s always challenging when sport and art are commingled. At the same time, that “commingling” attracts people who are not particularly engaged by sport alone, but long to see elements of beauty as well. One can argue whether or not these judged elements are proper to sport, but the reality is that we have admitted some to these beauty-“tainted” sports to the arena.
That said, the problem with figure skating is not easily remedied. Granted, the current scoring system is hackneyed and had taken the “sport” in a direction that many-including me-find less than desirable (to say the least). But, there are many factors. Scott Hamilton touches on some of them. The scoring system-which (I would contend) covered up inept nationalistic judging rather than remedying it, no matter how well-intentioned (or not ) it may have been-was part of it, but there was also the elimination of compulsory figures, which made the athletes into jumping beans. The admittance of vocal music seems to me to have cheapened the sport and made it too populist. (I admit that that’s just my opinion, take it or leave it. The sport seems less beautiful and, therefore, less appealing to me in its wake, but that’s ONLY my opinion.)
I also think that the Boitano Rule damaged the sport. I think that its admission was reactionary, and the “natural” (I am using that adjective, although it may not be entirely appropriate) progression from amateur to professional statue to be unfortunately short circuited.
So, speaking for myself, I am left with a less beautiful, less engaging, less interesting, and (heaven knows!) a sport that is more “quantitatve” than “qualitative”. That’s fine if that’s what you prefer. Just count me out. But, I don’t think I’m alone.
I guess I see Scott's point about the money that was pumped in allowing amateurs to not turn pro, but Scott fails to mention that his own show, Stars on Ice, did its part in riding the Harding wave, killing traditional ice shows, and profiting to the tune of millions and millions of dollars.
It turns out there was a new audience who wanted to see stars only, instead of traditional shows, and the Harding incident helped fuel that. Aside from TV networks and associations, Scott may have been the individual who profited most from the Harding incident, along with, ironically, Nancy Kerrigan. Ordinarily, an Olympic silver medalist was relegated to a low-paying star spot with Ice Capades. Nancy earned eight million in a few years.
There are other factors which have changed skating other than: elimination of figures, the Harding incident, changes in amateur/pro status, judging scandals, and changes to the scoring system. First there was the proliferation of TV channels/networks, including channels devoted to sports, like ESPN. Then there was the home VCR. The impact of the internet has been huge, and it is hard to estimate how it has changed skating.
Maybe its beneficial effect was mostly temporary, but I think the Harding incident shifted the ice princess phenomenon (set on fire by Sonja Henie) more toward ice warrior, and it indirectly benefited male skaters, who before Tonya, often had trouble attracting the audience or salary that an ice princess could attract. Audiences became more aware of the subterfuge in competitions, and the difficulty of skating moves. I think part of that has lasted.
I understand how Scott feels personally attached to figures. Without them, he would have lost to Brian Orser in the Olympics and probably never had the opportunity to start his own show and make the large mark that he has in the skating world as an entertainer and promoter. Even with his hyper-masculine demeanor and ultra butch costumes, Scott failed to permanently restore masculinity to skating though. That was his mission for a short period. What a character!
Are you calling Scott Hamilton "hyper-masculine>"
Nah. A gifted skater? Absolutely. The greatest ever (besides Boitano?) 100%. The pinnacle of masculinity? Nah, fam.
@@j.w.tompkins7440 Ms. Hamilton tried to be masculine by wearing a speed skaters type outfit...but only made her look like she was trying to hide something.
Yeah, right! Tonya made it exciting when she started doing the Triple Axl. Kerrigan was dull as hell.
Harding could not successfully complete triple axels in competition after 1991. Her competitive results started to decline in 1992.
Ernesto quite frankly neither one was great. Nancy was consistent and competitively driven and Tanya had the athleticism but honestly neither of them were great skaters which is way oksana took the gold medal.
In order to win the skating competition, five or more out of nine judges must place a skater in 1st place. Baiul had five judges, all from the former Iron Curtain countries (Poland, Czech Republic, Ukraine, China, Germany) placing her 1st, two judges (USA, Japan) placing her 2nd, and two judges (Great Britain, Canada) placing her 3rd. Kerrigan had four judges placing her 1st and five judges placing her 2nd. Baiul won by the slimmest margin possible with one judge from the former East Germany giving her 0.1 points higher in the subjective Presentation score than Kerrigan. So Kerrigan is just as good as Baiul but only 0.1 points less.
I agree but Kerrigan was beautiful in her Vera Wang costume in 1992.
RaymondHng Actually what you are saying is that pro-American countries voted for Kerrigan (UK, Canada, USA, Japan) and everyone else voted for Baiul.
I watched both Tonya and Nancy & other skaters, skating is still a great sport to watch, Tonya worked hard to reach the top in her sport, so give her due credit, and likewise, so did Nancy. We are aware of Tonya's mistake, and she paid her debt to Nancy and society, so do NOT blame Tonya anymore. Tonya was ordered to pay Nancy $100,000 and do probation that is a steep fine , and then, to me, ILLEGALLY told she could no longer skate. God , we have murderers running loose as probation absconders, and fugatives, and rapists, child molesters, thieves, who number tens of thousands in each U.S.A. state (FACT), and we have many prisoners in prison who have never worked a hard day in their lives. So, I do not feel any one man or woman , is God, nor a JUDGE to force Tonya to give up her livlihood. We the taxpayers know oh too well the deep pockets of corruption in America.
God bless our lovely Tonya Harding and all athletes who strived to reach the top and gave all they had to give in their sport.
Never judge a person by one mistake in their lives, you don't have that right. This video. I shall NOT watch.
You have no right to attack Tonya throughout her lifetime.
fan of Tonya Harding, she was a fine , olympic skater, give her credit for the good she has accomplished.
1besieged you are delusional if you think that she shouldn’t have been banned from the sport. She actually hindered the investigation and mostly played a role in what happened. She is very lucky she didn’t have to serve hard time and she should count her blessings. With the new movie Out people who weren’t around at the time are getting a misguided observation. Despite her family issues and the psychological and detrimental effect it might have had it does not excuse what happened.
1besieged and evidence that points to Harding not even being aware the plot had materialized. I never saw her as one to go after another skater out of spots. I wouldn't be surprised if some one other than Hastings ex husband conspirated the attack. Look what it did for nancy? And look what it did to harding. Harding had to know they'd point the finger right at her. She would never risk it. No, I think they exploited her and framed her. Because she was unarguably the best skater of her time. Thoes triple axels..... Kerrigan wasn't talented enough to master the triple axel. But Harding was, and did!
Kristeen Izzio she admitted on video in an interview how she knew a few days after it happened. Change of story from what she said back then. She's not credible.
Reading the comments below, both are right. Tonya absolutely destroyed skating. So did the scoring changes. But so did what was important to score. Footwork was out. Jumps were in. The beauty died in favor of athleticism.
I really miss him doing the commentary. He gave fun, intelligent, insightful chat. All Tara Lipinski & Weir do are giggle & dress up like halloween while talking like nasty girls in hs. NOT a fan. Had to mute them at the Olympics and didn't bother tuning in past one day.
Doesn't Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamil, Kristi Yamagucci, or Michelle Kwan ever commentary any more?
Nancy Kerrigan always reminded me of the spoiled sorority sister, a Regina George of skating. Don't think I'd have liked her at all. Never could stand those types of girls. Tanya on the other hand, was just a girl from the wrong side of town who had one shot to make it out. The judges didn't want Tanya. She wasn't enough of an ice princess. I've heard they treated her like trash.
cocokai this is such utter BS!! Nancy gained her strength and fortitude because her family struggled as well. She does not come from money. Why would anyone celebrate someone like Tanya who was involved in criminal activity over someone who took the right path and worked her ass off??
i completely agree 100% with cocokai
Nancy was never good as gordeeva and grinkov. Nobody ever was.
She reminded you of a spoiled sorority sister? Maybe you watch too many movies. Or you're just a judgmental person. To me, she just reminded me of a competitive figure skater...
uhm singles vs. pairs....apples and oranges. @leonie Ladner
Pro figure skaters received unbelievable contracts after Lillehammer, the Harding scandal actually helped those skaters who were able to strike while the iron was hot. I think it was awful how they kicked Harding to the curb never letting her make any kind of a living after this. There has to be a time for forgiveness and moving on. It's not like she committed murder for goodness sake. There has always been drama in figure skating.
I agree with that assessment. She should have gone to jail. But since she did not, I am of a mind for forgiveness, blacklisting her did not do skating any good. It's all water under the bridge now though.
Not sure she should have gone to jail for what was essentially a simple assault and battery. It wasn't even a class C felony. A simple assault & battery means you either pay a fine or go on probation. No gun was involved and no murder or mayhem ocurred. Harding paid a fine.
I think Harding's punishment was fair. To me nothing is worse in sports than cheating....Nancy could have gotten her knee broken. Tonya planned this and deserved what she got
How do you know Tonya planned it? We'll never know.
Miki b
A few things killed the sport. Number one was knowing exactly who would win every competition (Michelle Kwan, for example) because it was expected. The sport was rather stagnant, too. Remember how every single Todd Eldridge programme ended ? Same exact spin. You could call his entire programme with-out even watching it because it was choreographed exactly the same with different music. People aren't stupid; that's boring. Also, he mentioned this: it's cyclical. Skating will never a super-popular sport because it tends to reach a very specific audience -- namely, those who can afford it. When I was a skater at the Junior level in the 90s, the cost per year was close to $20,000 and that was on the lower end. I had to teach group-classes, tutor, baby-sit, walk dogs, give lessons to adult skaters, sell home-made cookies, etc. just so my parents wouldn't get buried under the cost. When you have a sport that is beautiful to watch on TV, then decide you want to try it only to realise affordability is nearly impossible, then the sport will suffer.
The new scoring system also plays a role. Every skater is putting in crazy jumps at the half-way mark and every number has become predictable. There is no excitement in it anymore -- it's skate-by-numbers, so to speak. Watch the Russian ladies this year. They all have the same lines, same look, same type of programme. Nothing note-worthy or exciting, other than their interpretation of the music. Skating is a sport, but is also an artistic endeavour. When you know exactly what's coming with every step, you lose an element of excitement and get bored.
I would also like to touch on the economy itself. US economy has been awful since early 2000s. People are struggling, depressed, and suffering, so they're not exactly paying attention to a sport like skating. The sport started losing its popularity around the same time that the economy tanked, and I've occasionally wondered if there is any correlation there.
Wow--walk dogs and give lessons to adult skaters--all in one breath.
You do what you have to do if you love a sport. Teaching adult skaters allowed me to not pay for one of my lessons per week. Walking dogs paid for my spins and jumps coach. Baby-sitting helped off-set the cost of another lesson a week so my parents only paid $150/week instead of $250. That’s a pretty big deal.
What I would like to know, Scott, is what has happened to US skating. Hardly any are reaching the very top in international competitions.
Um ... what about Nathen Chen and Vincent Zhou?
YES the US skaters are very poor
They are emerging. Zhou has a world title but at the junior level. He's debuting this season on the senior level. Chen debut at the senior level last season. He withdrew from the World Juniors two seasons ago. He won Four Continents but placed 6th at the Worlds last season. This season, he won one Challenger Series and two Grand Prix series. He will be competing in the Grand Prix finals in a week.
When the US is likely to medal they get more viewership. lately no one cares about US skating because we don't have the top skaters.
American ice skating had its day, you can't be at the top forever.
Tonya and Midori Ito were ahead of their time as world-class women athletes in ice skating. Such tragic success. I hope Tonya finally gets her long overdue recognition as one of the world's best ice skaters in history. Check out her face-off skating video vs Scott Hamilton! It puts her outstanding athletic ability in a whole new light.
G ligetimuse - the video is no longer on youtube. can you put it back up.
Do you mean Tonya Harding??? If so, please go back 3 spaces & lose 1 turn.
Tanya was an athlete ONLY. she was ever an artist. Her heart never developed past jealousy and the lowest common denominator. She couldn’t compete with the likes of Hamilton, or any of the all Stars on Ice crew. Each one of them could take your breath away with the athletic along with the beauty of those routines. Kerrigan couldn’t either, Tanya and Suri Bonaly were never refined skaters. I miss the true artistic nature of the “sport”. It never recovered after the point system became all about the jumps alone. Boring now.
Never an artist and was arrested for domestic violence, 4 DUI’s, release of a sex tape with her ex-husband, trying to earn $$ women’s boxing and wrestling! Yeah, she is simply a disgusting person!!
Although he makes good points, and probably does believe what he is saying, he's forgetting that the whole world was changing during that time. Corporations were becoming more and more greedy and leaving employees behind, negotiating better deals for themselves and not worrying about their obligation to anyone outside the boardroom. It was no different in the world of sports. In fact, look at it today. Never have so few made so much, while the rest of us happily hand over our money for the "privilege" to watch it.
Tonya Harding was a much better skater than Scot Hamilton. He never had a triple axel.
Well Tonya is the top of her skill level. Acting a fool on True TV
Most of the men at that time did not have a triple axel - Tonya came later and still most of the woman do not do them either way - Jumps are not everything - ice dancers do not jump and are far surfier pure skaters than most of the singles athletes.
Jumps are the most exciting part of figure skating. Tonya Harding was the greatest of them all.
Not to mention that Tonya was also an exquisite and powerful spinner. Plus, her edges were always clean and deep.
@@baritonebynight Midori was the greatest jumper and technical skater of all time. At the Albertville Olympics, Scott rated Tonya the 2nd best technical skater in the world behind Midori.
Very interesting listening to Scott Hamilton, such a respected member of this field. What really turned me away after being enthralled growing up in the 60s, 70s, and 80s was when they went to the strictly compulsory programs even in the free skate: it was all about compulsory elements and they just got incredibly boring. I still remember when the free skates in the seventies and eighties were so exciting because anything was possible and you would see any number of unusual elements. But I believe in the late 80s and 90s I don't know exactly when it happened when compulsory elements led to everyone doing the same thing.
Skating is boring nowadays. They all dress the same. You watch one you watch another. And its true the winners are picked out before they skate.
Even after listening to his explanation, I don't see how Harding/Kerrigan scandal is to blame...These developments would have occured that way anyway...I loved figure skating until the late 1990's and now I don't due to: no more exciting figure skaters around, they are bland and somehow all the same and really boring to watch; the unfair judges that made me start disliking the sport; the new scoring system; the fact that it is just about jumping now; the fact that the sport is dominated by little girls, there are no more women skating in the championships...Those things killed figure skating, Harding/Kerrigan had nothing to do with it.
The reason I quit watching figure skating is that you are no longer allowed to just watch the skating in peace. The commentary never stops. The music coupled with the art in ice is ruined with NON STOP BLABBING.
That scandal put figure skating on the map. But people just got sick of the golden girls being crowned before they ever stepped on the ice. And the vote fixing - long after Tonya skated.
Oh, be quiet, Scott. I used to admire you so much. First you said getting rid of compulsory figures would "kill the sport" (and I agree they are a loss); then you became Mr. Supermacho, making homophobic and frat-boy statements, acting arrogant like you're God's gift to women, etc. Please spare us your "It's all gone to crap" crap. The ISU has been killing the sport for a long time and you did nothing while it was happening.
I can’t believe Scott Hamilton would be making Homophobic remarks.
horribly misleading headline
I thought exactly the same thing and was about to post a comment when I saw you already had.
yes. incredibly misleading headline. i can't imagine scott hamilton saying something so awful, and he didn't.
Michael Andrews he was referring to the Kerrigan-Harding incident as a whole, and said "it's honestly what destroyed skating."
oh, i get that...the headline is what i found misleading, that tonya harding destroyed skating, that's all.
Not really. Scott says flat out claims the Harding/Kerrigan incident killed skating.
At present, it is very difficult to find any coverage of figure skating, either in print or on television.I miss being able to read about the current year's crop of promising skaters and to see their performances.
Tonya Harding is the reason way more eyes were glued to the tv. However the quality of skating, the style of that era was so much better then today. Routines are too full of fast changing elements, flailing arms and really crappy music.
Scott you are still the best skater that every hit the ice none better
Lack of scoring credibility has, and still does, hurt this sport. Bargains made, and corruption in judging, etc. Did you know that in 1998 the US judge voted for Kwan over Lipinski? Tara was clearly more deserving, but even bias with US judges exists, not just "Russian" and Chinese judging. Even with the scoring methods changing dramatically, cheaters have found work-arounds for what should be, correct scoring. These days, judging is manipulated through alleged 'under rotations' and 'grades of execution' which take what could be a quantifiable result into a dubious result (here's a hint: US skaters are always accused of under rotation, Russians apparently never under rotate, LOLOLOL; another one is the Flutz vs Lutz (US skaters Flutz, Russians, Lutz), LOL. I still watch, don't get me wrong and thanks to Dick Button over the last 40 years, I know quite a bit about skating. But I think the results are largely fixed in advance by corrupt people who should have nothing to do with the sport. During the Olympics, watch the results in the team competition to see which countries are in bed with which countries.... make those deals, and keep hiring judges caught fixing outcomes... SMH
If you're talking about the Ladies Figure Skating event at the 1998 Winter Olympic Games in Nagano. Lipinski got ranked number 1 by 6 out of 9 judges. The remaining three judges ranked her number 2. The judge from the U.S. was in that minority. But what counts in the scoring system at that time is only the lowest majority: the number 1s from the 6 judges. The scores from the minority judges which includes the U.S. judge did not matter. If there were to be a tie in the lowest majority, then they add the numbers from only the lowest majority judges to form the total lowest majority score. If there were still a tie of the total lowest majority score, then they add the numbers from all 9 judges to form the total of all the ordinals. The lowest total wins.
I knew that but thanks for replying. How the US judge or any of the other 2 placed Tara 2nd is ridiculous. Tara’s 3L3L and other combo alone should have been enough for unanimous 1st place placements, especially since Tara also possessed grace and style
All except one of Lipinski's technical marks:
5.9 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.8 5.9 5.9 5.8 5.9
were higher than all except one of Kwan's technical marks:
5.7 5.7 5.8 5.7 5.8 5.8 5.7 5.7 5.8
Lipinski would have still won were there only five judges ranking her number 1. And she would have still won were she to place 3rd in the Short Program instead of 2nd.
The television-viewing audience has the benefit of the best angles from several cameras to watch a figure skater no matter where she is on the rink. The nine judges are spread out along one side of the rink and get only their sole angle to watch a skater with no video playback (at the time). So what you have seen on television may not be necessary exactly what one judge at the far side of the rink has seen.
I'm not going to pretend that I know as much from the professional side of figure skating as you do but, as a viewer, what I remember about the Lipinski/Kwan matchup was that Tara was adorable but looked like a little perky jumping bean while Michelle showed both the grace AND athleticism that I loved about skating. I remember watching those Olympics and feeling sad because it was sort of the moment when it became more about the jumps than the overall performance.
Hi there - Michelle Kwan had years to increase her difficulty and chose to not do so; Tara was a former US and World Champion when she won that Olympics having beaten Michelle before in major competitions and from a skating perspective, Tara was very expressive with strong skating skills. As great as Michelle was, I do think the judges coddled her - if she skated cleanly, she won, even if others took more risks and also skated cleanly. How truly great Michelle Kwan could have been both artistically and technically is gone because of that judging coddling. In 1998 Michelle was taught a lesson by Tara; she proved she didn't learn it in 2002 when Sara Hughes was finally given credit for the amazing skater she was. I'm not a Michelle hater, I cheered for Michelle, but to reduce Tara and Sara as jumping beans is inaccurate. Michelle was also not the most athletic (that would have gone to Bonaly or Slutskaya); but Michelle was a wonderful ambassador for the sport, an all-time great, and certainly should only reflect on her career with enormous pride.
Wow Scott, clearly showing with the direct/indirect insults to Harding the true prejudice that existed in the sport. He clearly dislikes her personally, to say the least, which is weird considering all the benefits that you acquired after the incident. Maybe a thank you and apology to Harding would suffice at least? To discredit her amazing skating ability is a massive disservice to figure skating and to her. Everyone wanted someone to hate, and they latched onto Harding who they viewed as the easiest one to do it too. Shame on those people.
Ms. Hamilton is just a jealous old crone that she was out skated by a REAL woman.
Couldn't disagree with you more. Tonya Harding should have never been allowed to skate again after the incident.
@@acousticshadow4032 Because of something she may have had no involvement in?
The skating comittee was already against her from the start. She didn't fit into their 'ideal skater' aesthetic/performance and if they could have removed her at any point they would have. This was an easy out for them and ruined one of the things Tonya loved most in life, skating. All she wanted to do was skate & they took that because of something someone else did.
Doesn't seem very justified?
@@starace4031 ~ Are your meds up to date? Of course she claimed ignorance of the plot to assault Nancy Kerrigan, and that was dubious at best (a flat-out lie, imho). But even so, Tonya made the (bad) choice to run with those guys. So, yes - she is to blame. The 'ideal skater' part of your narrative is BS, and irrelevant. Tonya's problem was in her head, not her skates.
@@acousticshadow4032 wow...seems like you might need to speak to someone about all this pent up anger.
I mean after all, we'll never know what truly happened. Sure we can assume that she knew/didn't know what was going on but we weren't there so cannot be factually correct.
I hope making that comment helped release some of that. Maybe get some meds of your own before lashing out at others.
Hope you feel better.
I would suggest a psychosocial explanation for the impact of the Harding/Karrigan scandal. I think there was an innocence, beauty and purity associated (consciously and subconsciously) with figure skating. The ugliness and brutality of the Harding/Karrigan scandal destroyed that innocence, beauty and purity. As a result, people were profoundly less interested in watching it as doing so brought up something ugly and brutal inside themselves.
It kind of put it in the map...and I think Ekaterina Gordeava and Sergei Grinkoff restored some of the heart of it
Scott Hamilton also said [getting rid of compulsory] figures could kill the sport." ruclips.net/video/ieRF2skq5Cw/видео.html
When the judging system changed in 2004 that pretty much killed the sport. Programs now all look pretty much alike: it's like what watching compulsory figures used to be like: formulaic.
they where dummies for banning Tonya - people would have paid to see her -- her and Nancy could have had the redemption program -
alamance The sentence did not fit her part in the crime. At all.
People did pay to see her box, also to promote wrestling. Maybe if she was promoting figure skating instead it would have helped them instead of boxing and wrestling.
She wasn't banned from professional competitions. The reason she didn't participate in much professional skating was because her own peers in the industry refused to work with her. Even if you don't believe any of the things that the idiots associated with her ex-husband had to say about her involvement, Tonya admitted herself that she knew that they were involved in the attack when she got back to Portland after the Nationals and didn't say anything. That's why usfsa banned her for life, they felt she betrayed a fellow competitor and the sport's governing body in the United States.
@@mikeg4576 she was banned for life from professional ice skating
@@Nettiezoo that's not correct. She was banned from the official sport of figure skating, meaning the amateur Olympic eligible world. Professional competitions were not sanctioned by the ISU and she did compete in a couple of them in I think 1999
Scott is right. If you've followed the history of skating what he's saying is obvious.
No, what turned me off was Tara Limpinski and Johnny Weir becoming the NBC skating commentators PLUS the stupid "team" competition that was added to the Olympic medal competition - what a joke!!!
I have had it up to here with direct and indirect insults toward Tonya Harding... BUT, what Scott says about a bubble economy makes sense. The monstrous hype that Hard Copy, etc. created around the 1994 scandal created instability in this sport. I do think that pro figure skating has become a place where more expressive skaters, like Johnny Weir, can find a home, when they are inevitably disenfranchised by amateur skating (stuffy judges, puppetmasters of the IOC, and so forth). I wish that pro skating had been there in that way for Surya Bonaly, for example. But she was in the mix too early.
Naw it tripled the ratings skating. More people watched Kerrigan and Harding’s performances at the Olympics than any other Winter Olympics
Nah, ice skating being lily-white, elitist, and prejudice is what destroyed skating. Harding was treated as a pariah and it came back to haunt them.
Gee Dee sounds like the racist is you
Gymnastics implemented a new scoring system as well yet is doing incredibly well.
With figure skating, I know there’s little to know accountability and the scores cannot be trusted. Gymnastics is even more difficult to understand that figure skating, yet it wasn’t hurt by the new scoring system.
Let’s face it. Figure skating has little to no credibility at this point because the system lacks integrity and everyone can sense it.
For instance, if a gymnast did what Medvedeva does and cheated their elements, they would quickly be thrown to the bottom of the pile and become irrelevant within a couple competitions. But I’m figure skating, her cheated jumps go uncalled and she held up by dubious program component scores.
Yes, the scoring changes destroyed skating! First, nobody understands the notion of a "personal best", or how many points constitute a good or great score. That is confusing to most viewers. Also, it's truly heinous that judges are not held to account for faulty or biased scoring, with anonymity of their scores to hide behind. Now, they award points for "transitions"-but who in the non-skating public even knows what that means? Next, (and for me, the worst), is that, due to the urgent need to rack up as many points as possible, the skaters' programs all look the same...It's really boring: all jump-jump-jump, and- hey, let's throw a half dozen different positions into this single spin! I long for the days when a skater could hold a beautiful layback position or sit spin and you could admire the beauty for more than a millisecond. (sigh) I used to be a competitor and avid watcher, but it's so dull now that I rarely view competitions or exhibitions.
Exactly! Also, because of the incessant need to keep on adding technical difficulty into a program, a skater's competitive career is cut very short. They all get injured so fast. Or, they're only able to perform the tricks when they're still prepubescent, but once their body changes, goodbye! Thus, there are no icons of the sport anymore, like Michelle Kwan, Sasha Cohen, Kristi Yamaguchi, all of whom competed for years at a very high level.
That is a very good point!@@pueraeternus111
I highly disagree with Scott Hamilton!!! I think what ultimately hurt skating were the horrible judging scandals!!! The scoring system may have been easier to understand before, but that old system was horribly unfair and blatantly dishonest!!! The old system, with the school figures was used to rewards certain skaters the judges liked while holding back skaters they didn’t like!!!
I love watching figure skating. My best gift I was given was getting tickets to see stars on ice live.
Speaking as a person who never followed skating TWICE Tonya and Nancy brought in the non fan to look into this sport. The second was iTonya for the newer generation.
I loved watching figure skating back in the early to mid 90s.....now it’s so boring.
So why is he blaming Tonya Harding for the demise of skating? Because a rush of money came into the future skating association, and they rewarded skaters for staying amateur? How is that her fault?
He's just butthurt that the success of amateur skating killed pro skating (and thus also hurt him financially). He's always been very petty and narcisstic in that regard.
It seems impossible to me that Scott feels that the Tonya Harding scandal destroyed skating. That's giving her way too much power. I still enjoy it very much.
Nothing lasts forever Scott, not even you.
Michelle Kwan's the most known figure skater in the world now so how did the bottom fall out? She was after Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding. Michelle's been in Campbell commercial with Nicole Bobek and Tara Lipinski. also Michelle Kwan in another one with Kristi Yamagucci. Tara Lipinski also showed up on seventh Heaven TV show.
hydrolito he's just making a point
Actually Michelle Kwan is a PERFECT example of someone who continued to skate way past her prime because there was no way of turning pro. If she'd have gone out on top, she would be regarded as the best skater of all time, for sure. The last Olympics she competed in, she didn't even make the cut to BE in the Olympics and petitioned the board to let her go based on past merits. Then she didn't do well. No athlete wants that.
Jenn, some of your facts are wrong. Michelle did petition to go to the Olympics and she tried out in front of those in charge. She made the team. However, she had to pull out at the last minute because of injury.
Professional status allowed a skater to make money when amateur status prevented them from doing so. But when Olympic-eligible status allowed competitions with prize money, there was no need for a skater to turn pro.
Kwan is still the most decorated figure skater. She has won five World titles, one Grand Prix title, and nine National titles.
Disagree, Scott! Not true.
It's his truth. His story. Not yours. Doesn't matter whether you agree or even disagree. You weren't surrounded in Olympic-Level competitive ice skating like he was for years.
LOL! It actually put skating on the map! One of the strangest sport scandals in history.
What turned me on to figure skating was watching this man do his stuff!
What destroyed it for me. Is the stacking of jumps. over artistry, & fast beautiful spins. Most spins now are slow, & labored. All emphasis is now placed. 0n one element. It is no longer interesting to watch. Individual personality, style, & flair. Almost nonexistent. It has mostly become a series of jumps. Every other component has been left to atrophy. In terms of singles at least.
Seriously, I think the wording is a bit wrong. Tonya herself didn't ruin skating, the scandal did. If you think about it how can you market skating after such a horrible event to top that? And this new judging system is awful! It's so confusing. The 6.0 system was a lot easier to understand by the casual fan.
I don't think a casual fan would understand ordinals, lowest majority, total factored placements, etc. that is in the 6.0 system. It is still used in local competitions. The 6.0 scoring system is simpler, but the detail used to come up with the marks was hidden behind the scenes. The current point-based system brought all that detail (in the form of the protocol sheet) to the forefront.
Not entirely correct. True that the ultimate placements were based on a few factors, but the specific mark given by each judge (5.7 for example) evaluating the performance was straightforward, on-the-spot, and often based on quick perception along with some advance knowledge of program content. With all marks being relative and based on a perfect 6.0, this is ALL a viewer needs to see to have a better understanding before everything is calculated for a final placement; viewers understand there is more than one judge.
The current protocol sheet is NOT seen by TV or audience viewers and adds nothing to the understanding of the sport for the casual viewer.
The protocol sheet is not shown on television, but it is definitely accessible online on the competition's website for anyone to view and it shows all the detail that is calculated to arrive at the final score. In contrast on the 6.0 system, no such detail is kept to account how a technical mark is calculated.
The 6.0 is too subjective you are ranking the players on only two marks technical and artistic. The second is very subjective. The new system gives you credit for what you actually do and how you do it. The second mark can still be manipulated but it is more difficult. Sale and Pelletier may have looked better as no one made noticeable mistakes. The program of the Russians was more difficult and more complete. Also they weren't repeating the same program three years in a row.
No, the opposite actually happened and the scandal infused the sport with new viewership (and thus more $, more shows, more opportunities for the skaters, etc.). Marketing wasn't a big concern when people couldn't get enough of the sport, for a time. I agree with you that Tonya herself didn't ruin skating, and I find it amusing that Scott threw her under the bus when he was one of the people who profited the most from the scandal.
I really like Scott Hamilton but I disagree. The media made a circus out of a Yarding/Kerrigan debacle. Network ratings and greed is what happened to figure skating.
If he thinks Tonya H destroyed skating I wonder how her feels about Kamila Valieva?!
"I'm Mr. Optimist." I'm glad to live in a world that has a Scott Hamilton in it. :')
This guy certainly didnt help skating in the long run. He always had the same cast of buddies on his shows. Where was place for new champions to perform? Did he support young skaters in any way? In the end about 20 skaters profited the rest got very little.
Tonya Harding put skating back on the map in the 90s! She was sensational :)
Alex Tsahalis if she was sensational, why did she have to have someone club her closest competitor in the knee ?
We don't know if she did that for sure
Koala 911 apparently there was enough to implicate her with a lifetime ban from competitive skating.
Harding at least had some star power & a name that could draw an audience.
FitThickChic if memory serves, there was great excitement for these two to compete. They were both world class athletes, very different from each other = tv viewership. Seems figure skating would have been up for that but I guess you never know.
The change from the 6.0 system to the current "Code of Points" is what has killed the sport. Since the name of the game is to collect as many points in order to win, the skaters are practically doing the same technical routines as the next skater. Gone are the days when artistry and innovative choreography ruled the sport. Moreover, since skaters are always trying to push their technical content further (to amass more points), prepubescent girls have now dominated the sport. It's easier to land quads when you weigh 65 lbs. Thus, all we see today are kids on skates. If you want a certain demographic -- say, adults in their 30s or above and with disposable income -- to buy tickets at these competitions, the sport needs evolve in order to cater to them more. This age group isn't interested in watching little girls compete. They want to see maturity, elegance, and style on the ice.
I think it is often forgotten how Scott Hamilton won Olympic gold but his skating when he won gold was no longer top notch. He had been replaced skating wise by Brian Orser. It was kt haind of sad. Yes, Brian didn't have the school figures but people loved the skating and sadly as charming as Scott tried to be he was second class at skating
In all things, I think there's an element of covert actions and nothing is perfect. Sometimes the best doesnt win, sometimes, it's beyond their control. I have always thought there was an undercurrent of favoritism for one skater or another, amonst the judges, but I dont know that for sure. I think that also applies to beauty contests, and other competitive things.
skaterboy3718 You are right Scott even discussed this in his book Landing It. He knew both Brian Orser and Brian Boitano were far superior technical skaters and it was best to retire.
What a great point! I honestly FORGOT about professional skating. I used to watch it all the time as a young figure skater myself. And it IS sad to see the great athletes play or skate long after their peak. He's totally correct.
I was a huge fan of men and women's figure skating back in the 80's and 90's but started losing interest when the men began trying to land quads unsuccessfully. Clean routines were replaced by a crash fest. Not fun to watch.
I would watch a lot more skating if NBC would broadcast it. And when they do it is just a couple of hours showing just the toop skaters a couple times a year. In my opinion it is the networks who have destroyed the audience for skating.
It really did …. I remember Olympic skating was about the only thing we watched Olympic wise. Figure skating was IT. There was so much excitement. Then Harding and Kerrigan kinda just it’s lost it’s magic somehow.
Not only was it a scandal but also poor sportsmanship .😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮😮
The quad and the CoP scoring killed men's figure skating. We see mainly the Japanese on the medal podium.
What a smart guy. He's very insightful and business minded. Hooray for Scott Hamilton.
He's jealous that Harding could out skate him
I never liked that guy. What does he think he did for skating when he fat shamed Tonya while commentating on 1992 skate Canada?
😂😂😂 you are funny! Scott is what made the sport great.
He's gotta know that people aren't watching TV so much anymore. The mid to late 90s is when the internet took off. Professional skating was done in because of the internet, not so much the scandal.
No Scott Tonya put skating on the map. The corrupt ISU and the ridiculous new score system that focus on nothing but points and jumps is what's ruined the sport. The Olympics start this Thursday and I'm not excited at all.
Winter Olympics also has skiing, snow boarding, hockey, speed skating, etc. not just about figure skating. Summer Olympic has other sports Track and field, wrestling, tennis, Badminton, horse jumping, swimming, high diving into water, gymnastics, etc.
We need another Tonya Harding for today to help put figure skating back on the map!
The ISU needs to allow Tonya Harding to coach at least! Imagine all the press coverage buzz she would bring to any event where one of her students is participating...given her past something may go down so you'll definitely tune in live!
I like Tonya but I don't think coaching is for her.
Tonya could train her skaters in hunting, boxing, mixed martial arts, and knee-capping. Why bother with a middleman?
Going to assume you're being facetious. If not...smdh
I see this as an old post with more recent comments and with the Olympics 2018 coming up, I just wanted to add my 2 cents worth from a long time fan. Having watched figure skating for years, including live shows and competitions but not watching or attending events much any longer, here are my top reasons (no particular order) why I am no longer as interested as I once was and Tonya is not one of them. I still watch, still love it, but I’m not as drawn in. I most often record the program, then use the FF and Mute to get through the show. I no longer attend live events. 1. Judging: corrupt, anonymous, blocks, favorites, predetermined, no credibility, collusion 2. Choreography: 2-3 year old programs skated over and over or skated to new music with a new costume, “theme” skating (I’m a bird, a plane, a car etc.), backloading the jumps (makes the program lop sided and leads to other issues, as in quick but throw away transitions and not holding the form long enough) 3. Music: lyrics, screechy, overused songs (Carmen, Bolero, Scheherazade) and any song that has to do with birds4. Skating form: very Robotic, no holding the form or element long enough, sometimes a quick but throwaway transition, round backs on sit or other spins, no pointed toes 5. Announcing: Johnny and Tara talking and commenting during the entire program 6. Facial expressions: pained constipated faces, furrowed brows and drama faces all for (real?) emotion7. No joy: many programs are skated to sad, dramatic, depressing music with few smiles or joy
A man that has been in business over 30 years must know what he is talking about!
Nope. Scott and your demanding a change to the "new" scoring system killed the figure skating pro circuit. 😔
tonya harding was simply outstanding, she was better than nancy kerringan, and she putted ice skating back onto the sptlight
I've noticed that no one really turns pro anymore. They retire after they make or don't make the Olympics.
FS skating isn’t dead, it’s just never been popular EXCEPT during the Olympics, same as gymnastics. Nothing new.
No that's not true, it was immensely popular up until about 2003. Arenas were packed and skaters were getting standing ovations and people literally getting up and clapping along to their music. Then the scoring change happened and it became a jumping contest once again as well as the networks being finnicky about broadcasting it and then it started going down the tubes.
I don't care what Americans think about the sport. I love and will always love the international figure skating scene.
Starting at 2:30, Scott has a good point why Tonya-Nancy has hurt skating. This is especially true with U.S. skaters that no major new talent has emerged since Michelle Kwan retired.
Sasha Cohen, Kimmy Meissner, Tracy Gold, Ashley Wagner, Mirai Nagasu, Alysa Liu, also pair and ice dancers.
NATHAN.
He has no right to state such a thing. Harding was never given the opportunity to skate as a professional. If skating died blame himself. He never gave Tonya Harding an opportunity to recoup or salvage a career. He didn't innovate anything he didn't diversify. He took no risks. His business model was stale. He didn't open up his platform to international champions. He didn't respond to the changes he clung to the past in the face of change. Instead he hired People like Sara Hughes, Michelle Kwan, Evan Lysacek, Sasha Cohen and Tara Lipinski . Under the old rules all of these were Olympic champions and each were given shows that he built around them and should have done well. But they did not. . Not everyone can hold a box office just because they win an Olympic medal or Olympic & world gold medals. Not everyone is a "star." The bottom fell out because they were promoting his skaters by tearing down other champions who could hold a box office. Say what you will Harding could draw audiences. She was BANNED from every pro event. Don't blame Harding.
Is that Scott's home where interview conducted?