@@orbea Yea sweet ride, whats the retail cost on this exact set up? or can you post a link to it? i looked on your website an there are lots of Orca options.
Been using Force axs for over 6 months now, it's great. From new the cassette is a bit noisy but now with some wear and micro shifting the rear derailleur it's become quieter. Not a single dropped chain. Shorter battery life than di2 however knowing that keeps me alert to check battery status every few weeks. Been over some rough terrain the damper works well. Precise shifting all the time even under load. No issues with the app, few firmware updates all fine.Happy with this groupset.
@@hankschrader2353 Yes Hank, still happy with the Force Axs, working just the same after roughly 8000 miles of use, still on the original chain too. Only minor niggle was the shifter batteries dying during a ride. When i set off the shifter led's were lit green (battery ok) but ran out. They'd been there for roughly 18 months. Shifter batteries last that long like Di2 it's easy to forget about them LOL
Great Intro - can you do a performance comparison force AXS to Di2. Shifting performance, braking performance, battery life, the functionality of gearing, ease of use and whatever would set them apart to help choose which one to get.
When Matt left, I left GCN for a while. Just wasn't the same. Si has actually always been my favorite, and since he was still here, I came back. If he leaves, I would probably be done with GCN.
@@Enigma71559 Matt, Si, Dan and Tom were Gcn. It's lost what I loved about it. Now its a commercially produced, impersonal and just another market orientated marketing tool. All riding €5,000+ bikes forgetting that not everyone can afford these.
Hey Si , Ken here . I switched from 105 group set to Sram force AXE , OK the new bike(Specialized Tarmac Pro disc) I bought last month came with it, I gotta say that it's friggin awesome the way it works and I love the how it compensates shifting from the big to smaller ring or visa versa . Thanks for a very informative video .
The nice thing is that probably some bike manufacturers are asking for this, because it allows for more freedom in tube and frame design, especially with the rising popularity of hydro discs. There's hope!
I have this groupset on my new ORBEA ORCA OMX, and I can say it works really well. I used to mount Shimano Ultegra DI2, and all I can say is that I am very satisfied with my new groupset.
Glad the road shifters work with Eagle MTB rear mech, that's my current Di2 1x setup, road group with XT mech and big cassette, may go SRAM wireless on my next build.
I was a Shimano Di2 U6870 till DA9100 user before going Full eTap since launch. The SRAM adoption was largely due to innovation wireless tech and the reasonably priced components. And I guess this was the right strategy that propelled SRAM to the top of the 3 brands in groupset sale. This new AXS eTap pricing will likely be the starter-Domino to bring SRAM back down. Now I can't wait for Shimano to go wireless and price it lower than SRAM .... and that will be it. : )
Have the Liv Devote Advanced Pro with Force etap and it’s a dream to ride. The gear changes are smooth and the compensation when you shift up & down the front chainrings is a great feature.
Just watched this video! Great stuff. I have the Orbea Terra which is amazing. I commute, club ride and go up mountains on it. Change wheels and or tyres and off I go 🚴♀️🤘
@@cd0u50c9 it's even more expensive than the old MSRP red etap............. They should have called this red. and the new red as another "flagship" name for competitors with sponsorships.
Agreed. just wish they made a bigger cassette 38,39 or 40 tooth in the rear and I would jump at the chance but for now that 11 speed it way superior even if it cost the same amount.
I'd buy it in a heart beat. To me wireless is a no brainer over wired Di2. No fishing cables through the frame no worries about the cable coming loose (just ask T. Pinot about that one). It's got to be the way to go! My guess would be that in a little while the price will come down when the discounters get their teeth into it. Also what will be more important to the majority of us is the price when fitted by a bike manufacturer. Will there be a big price differential or will it be smaller given that they will have less work to do when fitting the system?
Did my first race last night and Got demolished by everyone lol They were all 25+ where Im only just 18. But I learned a lot in terms of changing gears on corners and sprints instead of staying the same gear for the whole race.
This is pretty exciting. They seemed to fix the things that most people were worrying about with the Red AXS, and done it for $1000 less. Even though that's still a stupendous amount of money to pay for a groupset, its nice that you can get what feels like a top level groupset for a lot less and the only concession is a few grams. It's definitely nowhere near an actual 'budget' groupset, but it's nice that the top level tech is working it's way to cheaper options.
i dont think im the only one that was hoping for a Force 11speed etap groupset to come out rather than this, would love to have etap, but don twant to get all new wheels as well.
Matthias Schmitt that’s not fully right. It needs a new free hub body to fit, but the free hub body fits in the standard drop out width of 135 QR / 142 TA. The only problem with the free hub body is most companies don’t make an XdR version.
I was hoping for basically a faster shifting version of sram red etap 11 speed, rebranded to force and sold at the same price as Ultegra di2. Looks like I'll remain in the Shimano camp for a while yet.
still waiting for a similar review of the new Campagnolo 12x EPS system. Now officially being presented. We now know EVERYTHING about new SRAM and Shimano groupset, I am sure that just a bit of coverage on Campagnolo will not damage GCN sponsors that much....
Luca Olivieri problem is people don’t buy Campagnolo because they’re so damn expensive. How does Record EPS 12spd cost over 2500 bucks? Why does Super Record even exist?
@@ritzk79 i) I have Campagnolo EPS and I love it ii) the new SRAM Etap is equally expensive iii) Super Record, Record and Chorus are so similar that they only differ on materials, so it's industrially easy to have 3 high end groupsets for them iv) I believe that the ONLY reason why Campagnolo does not get more coverage on youtube channels is a commercial one (they refuse to sponsor social media platforms other than their own) and to be clear this makes me challenge how genuine these videos really are. One last thing, EVERYONE would like a Campagnolo groupset
@@9psi well this is a good point. Campagnolo ergonomics is something that you either love or hate. Period. On spare parts, I am relatively lucky as DeRosa does all extraordinary maintenance on my bike at reasonable cost. I understand that in some places spare parts can be difficult to find at reasonable prices. Nevertheless, it would be great to have a look at similar videos on their products as well, regardless on our tastes and preferences. Let's not forget that there are more world tour teams using Campagnolo than Sram (4-2 if not mistaken)
I notice there are a lot of videos about SRAM and Shimano groupsets, but none about Campagnolo groupsets. That's a shame! Please do some videos on Campa groupsets
I'm well impressed with the shifting of Sram Force Etap Axs, an the whole lay out. But what I find disappointing is the noisy drivetrain. It's unreal. I took it back to LBS where the mechanic is top notch and he tried a few tweaks, but alas it still sounds tinny or whatever.. It's a pity as everything else is more than perfect 👍
same noisy experience here despite any micro-adjustment, didn't have the fortune to turn the bike back, now I'm stack with it, they kinda rushed it to the market
I'm sticking with the old eTap. I just purchased the old kit for a new Emonda SLR frame set that I'm building. I just wished the old eTap had the App stuff, too. I thought the prices would've dropped heavily, but they have not, but I finally found a good deal. I guess stock is low and many have decided to go with the old eTap system. Oh well, Sram just keep pushing and forcing different technology.
krnone no actually. They would make some trade offs like no buttons on the hoods, no textured hood, alloy cranks, ect... so you would be more inclined towards buying Ultegra or DA
I have been on eTap almost 2 years now and don't understand why people say Wired is better? Why? How? ETap for me has proven flawless, much cleaner without junction boxes, and wires all over, I rode Di2 and racers say it shifts faster but I personally didn't like it.(shift speed now faster with axs) I am guessing a lot of people who are here with negative things to say about it have never installed eTap themselves or ridden it.
If you could program your phone to shift into certain gear ratios at different speeds for you instead of manually. That would be neat, almost automatic but you could set the shift pattern's as the terrain changes.
Looks good, but given you can now get the original Red eTap groupset (not including brakes) for under £1000, I'd be going for that (as I already have it on my SuperSix, and it's great).
Looks good...but as a TTer, I don’t want a 10t sprocket...too much resistance. I want is a Wireless 1X 12speed groupset with 12-28 compatible with an aero 54 or 55T chainset.
Hi Si , Ken here. Thankx for this video, I bought my 2020 Tarmac Pro with Sram Force after watching this video . Seriously it's so quite all I hear is tyre noise plus they have a youtube channel if you need help with your set up .
But are shimano cranks any sexier? I say not by much. My r7000 2019 105 crank looks okay, but it looks heavy and bulky. Not ''road'' looking to me. More like mountain bike equipment. xD
Jaime iz Real 4 arm design, smooth surface and glossy. What isn’t there to like? Have you ever seen a Dura Ace 9100 crankset? It’s so shiny and pro looking.
Love SRAM. Have Rival 22 on one bike, Force/Red on another. I don't need electronic, but when do I'll go with Sram. Wireless is a no brainer in 2019. The price isn't bad, either.
Mr Si "I love x1" when it came out now would go with the X2 on the paid promotion. Great, I went with the Apex X1 on your recommendation only to find the jumps between gears to be too great. Thanks mate. Note to self look at independent reviews in future.
Hi James, as I said in the video, I still would run 1x for CX if I was choosing new Force, but the addition of the clutch rear mech for 2X and the lack of a 10-42 cassette means that option looks really good. Just because something new has come out doesn’t mean that suddenly your Apex is any less good. I still have older Force 1X on two bikes and it’s still great.
I'm struggling with the large jumps between the gear ratios. And apex X1 seems to drift out of alignment quite frequently. It was running great before we left for northern Ireland, but had drifted out by the time we were half way around the border.
@@stephenm8270 I guess bigger jumps in the cassette is always going to be a compromise with it. Personally I don't find it any more annoying that an 11-30, which is to say that every now and then I'll struggle to find the optimal gear, but I know plenty of people who do miss the smaller jumps. As for the alignment stuff, that sounds a bit odd. Was it just a bit of cable stretch?
@@stephenm8270 Tip to get used to bigger gears. Go mountain biking a few times or ride a single speed/fixie. I don't mind big jumps and in fact I often shit 2-3 gears just because I can't be bothered with the small gaps in the middle of my cassette. I credit not minding to the fact that I used to ride a single speed mountainbike and now use sram eagle on my current mountainbike while commuting on a single speed.
@@simonrichardson5259 Its done lejog and a few other big miles, should have finished stretching by now. I'll take it apart clean and have a play again - try to fall in love with it ! Think I'm maybe just a Shimano man. Keep making the great content, you guys are doing a great job.
Prices Will inevitably plummet once the online discounters get involved and then it becomes an awesome addition to the bike. Etap is Way better than di2 even in its first iteration and this 12 speed is a genuine game changer
Very nice groupset... Is Sram ever gonna make 12speed cassettes with ratios for us mere mortals? Just remember us ordinary cyclists actually buy stuff with our own money... How about a 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28-32-36 combined with 52-36 chain rings...
@@filipsoltys5504 Not gonna help since sram only makes up to a 33 which if you like really like gears for hills but you still need or want some bigger gears or if you like me want to run a 1x and still need something for high speed sprints and racing.
I will be really interested to see how Shimano react to this. I have Ultegra R8070 on my Canyon Aeroad and when I eventually replace it, if Shimano don't go 12 speed (or possibly 13 by that time!?) I would be tempted to go SRAM for the 1st time, I love what they've done with the smaller chainring sizes and the 10T sprocket.
I understand that things keep progressing but at the same time it is weird that you need to "charge" a bicycle. What I like about bicycles is that you only need yourself to move forward and with all this new technology we are depending more and more on external energy. I prefer Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed, no batteries, no worries!
Shifter is not considered as power source of movement. That's why even those picky UCI allows it. And you'll absolutely love it once you actually tried it in certain period of time
@@ChromeStrand I know! that's not my point. I said you can't stop progress. And I know it shifts much better. It is about not being dependent on extra sources besides your muscles. You need electricity to charge the batteries and to produce electricity you pollute the planet. A little but if you consider all the bikes that have this it just adds... Maybe I'm too old fashion. Give me Campagnolo any day....
@@willemniehorster9836 and you're replying youtube with abacus right? Just kidding, i get the point of yours. Sometimes it's more tasteful with Analogue style. Like prefering a bows and arrows than gun or even crossbow.
Then prefers a knife to kill onions than motorized slicers 😛 like myself! But yeah, i think even most analogue lovers tend to find e-shifters are acceptable. We are simply living in the future.
So pleased that they finally brought out Force eTap, but it's tainted with the fact that it will need a new free hub body to all existing wheelsets too!
After my sixth ride with my new Orbea Orca I must say that the Force AXS is a mechanical catastrophe. The chain sometimes just fall over the big chainring to the outside. The front derallieur is setup according to SRAMs installation guide. Everything is exactly setup like in the guide. Shifting works very good most of the time, but for no apparent reason the chain sometimes falls off. I already had a chain suck with the chain falling to the inside. The results were destroyed protection stickers and scratches on the frame. No recommendations from me.
I have the exact same issues with my 2020 orca OMR with sram force AXS. My chain drops to the inside almost every ride and I have had it aligned by 2 professional LBS who have all claimed to be sram experts. This groupset is a joke and should never have been released. Add to that the extremely noisy rear cassette and its a waste of money! I used to have the chain throwing to the outside however have found that if i keep pressure while chaing up to big ring it will not throw it over, however if you release pressure it tended to do this. Since that I have never thrown the chain over the outside. However if you keep pressure while changing down to small ring I end up munching my frame with a chain drop. I am going ot try a sram chain spotter to see if it fixes it- although you should not have to use a chain spotter on a $3.5k groupset!!!!
Thanks for the forecast! 📊 Just a small off-topic question: 😅 I have a set of words 🤷♂️. (behave today finger ski upon boy assault summer exhaust beauty stereo over). Can someone explain what this is? 😅
It’s more affordable, only if you compare it to the grossly over-expensive Red Axs. It’s roughly the same as 1st gen Red eTap, if comparing shifter/derailleur costs, but ridiculously expensive when you factor in the costs of new cranks, bb, and cassette, and converting your wheels to take the new cassette design.
if you factor in the extra weight, and the less efficient drivetrain, because of the smaller rings, sprockets., you'll end up with no gain at all. I have Force 22 and not on the earth can Sram talk me into this or the other AXS. Just a nonsense pricing, and total incompatiblity with everything (yet): Unfortunately Shimano has to jump on the 12spd bandwagon also, but we will have to see, how they will solve it. I think if one has a groupset from the 11 speed level from any manufacturer, then there is absolutely no hussle to upgrade. BUt if one is buying a new bike, then one has to stick with Ultegra Di2 for best perfromance for his money.
There are manufacturers who sell 2019 bikes for close to 2000 EUR with R5800 crankset. To me, that is unacceptable. I am looking for a new bike in Alu, full R7000. 105 is just good.
@@caliniaru1673 If you're on a massive budget, then get an 'ebay special'. I still have my ebay Chinese carbon frame (it has random old shimano parts on it, runs fine) and it's still strong and secure. Owned it for over 3 years now (I only use it in winter now because I have a new bike). This Chinese carbon frame was used in minus 40c weather for 2 winters now, NO PROBLEMS! Just don't use gears in super cold weather. Fixies all the way for super cold. Good luck finding your new bike Calin. Take your time shopping. :D
My god, I really like my tiagra, what does it do you ask? It changes gears in a road bike. That's it, no more no less. And by the way it's running now for more than 10 years.
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the benefit here over Di2 that it’s totally wireless and doesn’t require a junction box and wires going to the mechs? If so that’s awesome
I think they should have at least offered the 50t front chainring option to retain the same functionality as Red or Shimano groupsets running a 54 or 55 front chainring on an 11t cassette.
I just ordered one, but without a chain, a cassette and a crank to replace the Tiagra (yes, I know! 😏) My beautiful Salsa Warbird comes furnished with (Salsa doesn't sell the Sram Rival version here in Europe). I guess, I'll have to upgrade the Shimano 10-speed cassette to a 12-speed Sram. But the bloody thing is so expensive! Can anyone answer the following questions: - Are there more affordable 12-speed cassettes I can use with Sram Force eTap AXS derailleurs? - Do I have to use a flattop chain - or can I get away with a regular one? - Will Shimano chainrings work with Sram Force eTap AXS derailleurs / cassette / chain combination? - Will a cheaper Sram crankset work with the Force eTap AXS groupset? - Are AbsoluteBlack, Rotor, etc. narrow-wide OVAL chainrings compatible with the Sram Force eTap AXS groupset? - What does "AXS" stand for? I imagine, with a proprietary technology that has to do with the flattop chain? Questions, questions, questions...
Thinner sprockets and chain worn out faster, so you need to replace your drivetrain more often. Especially on 1x system because of chain curvature on easiest and hardest gears. Worth for racing only. Or you have extra money. Or sponsorship.
What’s interesting is that the sprockets aren’t thinner, it’s the gaps between them that are. And then the chain has larger rollers and more material for the flat top. Time will tell on durability of course but I’m not sure you’re quite right.
Going wireless sounds and looks great in all but in my opinion there's certain things that are better off left without tech. The only tech I need on my bike is my rechargeable front/rear lights, and what I would want is a wahoo or garmin computer because my looks to big around my bars.
No matter how many times I see the flat top chain, still looks so strange to me. As for CX, I would absolutely stick with my 1X setup and go MTB derailleur and cassette rather than go to the 2X....way less chance of chain jumps in the front even with the clutch. If you stick with the force AXS and 1X then you really have to know the course and adjust your front chainring for each specific course to maximize your potential which can be annoying when you just wanna ride and not be constantly tinkering.
Seems odd that Force AXS equipped complete bikes are being listed at quite a lower price point than the same complete bike equipped with Ultegra Di2 (Orbea and Rose). Or they are the same price - with an upgraded carbon handlebar for the Force bike and and alloy one for the Ultegra bike (Specialized).
This is soooo much better than the RED AXS. Seriously, even if I had the money for RED I'd buy the Force Crank. Simply so I can swap the chainring without the power meter. The Force cassette looks really nice in black as well. Honestly, why would you buy the red? 400 grams....whatever.
Put SRAM red e-tap groupset on my home built S-works, it was cool but the novelty wore off quick and the price was stupid so I took it off after 180miles and sold it now I'm back to ultegra mechanical and dont really miss the electric group. Its designed for pros and people that like to show off their money no real world gains. The bicycle component market like the dimond market prices dont actually match the value.
I think they have other mountain bike options smaller than the 50, he just mentioned that to show how big you can go. I assume they have a range of mountain bike gearing that is all compatible.
@@joshtipton7417 No not really the only cassette for mountain biking that is compatible is the eagle cassette 10-50 and the eagle derailleur (MASSIVE) and for road that's the thing 11-33 is the biggest cassette. "Sighs" you've messed this one up Sram you've messed it up badly.
I wish they made force compatible with up to 40 and a cassette that would range from either 10-38 or 10-39 so it would basically be like they're 11 speed 11-36 but with an extra ring... I guess 10-36 could also work pretty well
The mountain cassette is just an 11 speed 10-42 with a 50 tooth ring on it... so you can basically run exactly what you would on 11 speed 10-42 but then you get a 50 tooth bail out gear 🤷♂️
HOW MUCH? :O That's not exactly budget considering you can get a Shimano R8070 hydraulic Di2 groupset for less than half that! Plus charging 1 battery is a lot easier than charging 4 or however many eTAP needs. I honestly don't get the need for wireless anyway, nobody complained when mechanical groupsets were the only option, except perhaps that cable stretch was annoying.
It's 4 Batteries in total. One CR2032 in every shifter and 1 SRAM rechargeable battery in each the front and back derailleur. The ones in the shifters hold for an eternity though.
No one complained about Mech groupsets then because without anything to compare to, didn’t know any better. And 2nd those batteries last a loooong time. Plus side, if rear derailleur goes flat... swap out the front one👌
@@darbycurrie3391 oh yeah, they last a looooong time, and then they die the day before a race, like they did to one Polish PRO triathlete yesterday. Because he'd never had to replace them, he didn't even think to have spares... very lucky this didn't happen on race day.
Will the new 12 speed Force AXS system work with a Red 22 crankset? Can't wait to see this new groupset in action at this years Belgian Waffle race in California in a few weeks. I'll be riding 7800 Dura Ace with 9-speed XT rear mech and 11-34 cassette. Riding partner will be on the new Force AXS. He had an Ultegra Di2 failure last year that nearly took him out of the race. Hoping for better luck with Force AXS. I agree with most that it is way to expensive.
I dunno guys, I have a feeling they're gonna sell a tonne of these, but maybe not as separate group-sets. I suspect that the group-set market is actually quite small - I'd think most people buy a bike with the group-set they want already on it (therefore at a fraction of the price), and as a result, I'd expect to see this group-set on bikes retailing around the £3.5 - £4k mark in a year or so (I'm thinking Trek 7.0, Canyon SLX 8.0 etc.). I think they've priced the Red for pros who don't pay for it and posers who will pay anything to own the most expensive bike on their Sunday coffee ride.
Still no 180mm crank length option. Got to wait for Dura Ace to go 12-speed and use a Dura Ace crank with a Force groupset like I am doing with 11 speed.
Thanks for the review, I took the plunge and will have Force AXS installed on my ride in 2 weeks
That chain with the completely flat outer edge looks amazing
Yeah. I'm seeing this 12 speed 'flat-top' chain everywhere. Looks alright, I gotta get used of it though, haha.
Chain looks good, the rest a little less I'd say.
I actually hate the flat look
That matte black Orbea is an absolute treat to look at.
We thought so...
@@gcn Really enjoy the inreactions you have with your viewers on the platform, too. Keep up the good work, team GCN !
Thank you! :)
@@orbea Yea sweet ride, whats the retail cost on this exact set up? or can you post a link to it? i looked on your website an there are lots of Orca options.
Absolute stunner
Been using Force axs for over 6 months now, it's great. From new the cassette is a bit noisy but now with some wear and micro shifting the rear derailleur it's become quieter. Not a single dropped chain. Shorter battery life than di2 however knowing that keeps me alert to check battery status every few weeks. Been over some rough terrain the damper works well. Precise shifting all the time even under load. No issues with the app, few firmware updates all fine.Happy with this groupset.
Hey Carl are you still happy with it after over a year?
@@hankschrader2353 Yes Hank, still happy with the Force Axs, working just the same after roughly 8000 miles of use, still on the original chain too. Only minor niggle was the shifter batteries dying during a ride. When i set off the shifter led's were lit green (battery ok) but ran out. They'd been there for roughly 18 months. Shifter batteries last that long like Di2 it's easy to forget about them LOL
@@nemeanf27 thanks man! Great to hear, as I'm currently trying to decide between force and Ultegra and sometimes I read mixed opinions.
Great Intro - can you do a performance comparison force AXS to Di2. Shifting performance, braking performance, battery life, the functionality of gearing, ease of use and whatever would set them apart to help choose which one to get.
Is one of the original presenters and still the best
Agreed
@LetsTalkSense1 If he ever leaves GCN (God forbid) I can see that being an option for him
When Matt left, I left GCN for a while. Just wasn't the same. Si has actually always been my favorite, and since he was still here, I came back. If he leaves, I would probably be done with GCN.
@@Enigma71559 Matt, Si, Dan and Tom were Gcn. It's lost what I loved about it. Now its a commercially produced, impersonal and just another market orientated marketing tool. All riding €5,000+ bikes forgetting that not everyone can afford these.
@@foxdmulder Sad, but true.
Hey Si , Ken here . I switched from 105 group set to Sram force AXE , OK the new bike(Specialized Tarmac Pro disc) I bought last month came with it, I gotta say that it's friggin awesome the way it works and I love the how it compensates shifting from the big to smaller ring or visa versa . Thanks for a very informative video .
Think I’d just upgrade my Ultegra to DI2 for £800 and spend the rest on a cycling holiday 😉
Just the time for a 105 di2
The nice thing is that probably some bike manufacturers are asking for this, because it allows for more freedom in tube and frame design, especially with the rising popularity of hydro discs. There's hope!
I will stick to 105 for sure.
Bravo Sram. About time. Now work on dropping the price.
Now there’s another new Force groupset!
I have this groupset on my new ORBEA ORCA OMX, and I can say it works really well. I used to mount Shimano Ultegra DI2, and all I can say is that I am very satisfied with my new groupset.
What about 50 in front ? Is ir to small ?.isnt it ?
Glad the road shifters work with Eagle MTB rear mech, that's my current Di2 1x setup, road group with XT mech and big cassette, may go SRAM wireless on my next build.
Im fine with ULTEGRA. Have been for years and would never switch.
SRAM will price themselves out of the market....well done!!! Great product Worst pricing strategy . . .
get a job at a bike shop, buy it at close to cost, then quit
@@mikes1984 Or buy a Canyon when they start equipping their bikes with it. They're usually priced very well.
They do like apple iPhone .. but yes it’s to expensive
I was a Shimano Di2 U6870 till DA9100 user before going Full eTap since launch. The SRAM adoption was largely due to innovation wireless tech and the reasonably priced components. And I guess this was the right strategy that propelled SRAM to the top of the 3 brands in groupset sale. This new AXS eTap pricing will likely be the starter-Domino to bring SRAM back down. Now I can't wait for Shimano to go wireless and price it lower than SRAM .... and that will be it. : )
@@33Nautiboy That should make Sram drop their prices.
Have the Liv Devote Advanced Pro with Force etap and it’s a dream to ride. The gear changes are smooth and the compensation when you shift up & down the front chainrings is a great feature.
Sram groupset looks amazing, the flat top chain looks effin awesome.
Just watched this video! Great stuff. I have the Orbea Terra which is amazing. I commute, club ride and go up mountains on it. Change wheels and or tyres and off I go 🚴♀️🤘
Awesome they've offered AXS at a lower price, but they've really made the force look pretty budget in terms of appearance
I agree with that point, it is still much more expensive than the Shimano equivalent, while looking significantly cheaper...
@@cd0u50c9 it's even more expensive than the old MSRP red etap............. They should have called this red. and the new red as another "flagship" name for competitors with sponsorships.
Also, love how Si called this “affordable”...I’ll stick with my trusty old Shimano Ultegra, thanks very much.
@Click Bait With current 10 speed, it indeed works well with a little weight penalty.
I'd totally love a 2020 Scott Speedster 20 (Tiagra, blue frame with tan walled tires 😍 )
That Sram ETAP is Wicked Pissah Cool!
My rule is you buy quality and you’re never disappointed!
Go red!
@@dsdf_fdp1858 then buy what? 9 speed? R3000 sora?
The sequential feature sounds great
Can't wait to make my monster 1x system. 12 gears are plenty
Agreed. just wish they made a bigger cassette 38,39 or 40 tooth in the rear and I would jump at the chance but for now that 11 speed it way superior even if it cost the same amount.
I'd buy it in a heart beat. To me wireless is a no brainer over wired Di2. No fishing cables through the frame no worries about the cable coming loose (just ask T. Pinot about that one). It's got to be the way to go! My guess would be that in a little while the price will come down when the discounters get their teeth into it. Also what will be more important to the majority of us is the price when fitted by a bike manufacturer. Will there be a big price differential or will it be smaller given that they will have less work to do when fitting the system?
Did my first race last night and Got demolished by everyone lol
They were all 25+ where Im only just 18.
But I learned a lot in terms of changing gears on corners and sprints instead of staying the same gear for the whole race.
This is pretty exciting. They seemed to fix the things that most people were worrying about with the Red AXS, and done it for $1000 less. Even though that's still a stupendous amount of money to pay for a groupset, its nice that you can get what feels like a top level groupset for a lot less and the only concession is a few grams. It's definitely nowhere near an actual 'budget' groupset, but it's nice that the top level tech is working it's way to cheaper options.
Shimano would be loving these prices!
Good video. What I learned from this - cycling gets more and more complicated.
i dont think im the only one that was hoping for a Force 11speed etap groupset to come out rather than this, would love to have etap, but don twant to get all new wheels as well.
You don't need too. Sram and Campy 12 Speed cassettes fit on 11 speed hubs
Sram 12 speed Cassettes use the XDR driver body, which is newer and not avaiable with most hubs.
Matthias Schmitt that’s not fully right. It needs a new free hub body to fit, but the free hub body fits in the standard drop out width of 135 QR / 142 TA. The only problem with the free hub body is most companies don’t make an XdR version.
I really like that background music you use. 💖
I just got this on my Canyon Ultimate very nice, way better than Shimano, no wires.....worth it.
I was hoping for basically a faster shifting version of sram red etap 11 speed, rebranded to force and sold at the same price as Ultegra di2.
Looks like I'll remain in the Shimano camp for a while yet.
still waiting for a similar review of the new Campagnolo 12x EPS system. Now officially being presented. We now know EVERYTHING about new SRAM and Shimano groupset, I am sure that just a bit of coverage on Campagnolo will not damage GCN sponsors that much....
Luca Olivieri problem is people don’t buy Campagnolo because they’re so damn expensive. How does Record EPS 12spd cost over 2500 bucks? Why does Super Record even exist?
@@ritzk79 i) I have Campagnolo EPS and I love it ii) the new SRAM Etap is equally expensive iii) Super Record, Record and Chorus are so similar that they only differ on materials, so it's industrially easy to have 3 high end groupsets for them iv) I believe that the ONLY reason why Campagnolo does not get more coverage on youtube channels is a commercial one (they refuse to sponsor social media platforms other than their own) and to be clear this makes me challenge how genuine these videos really are. One last thing, EVERYONE would like a Campagnolo groupset
I’d like campag but I can’t reach the thumb shifter from the drops.....and the hideously expensive spare parts
@@9psi well this is a good point. Campagnolo ergonomics is something that you either love or hate. Period. On spare parts, I am relatively lucky as DeRosa does all extraordinary maintenance on my bike at reasonable cost. I understand that in some places spare parts can be difficult to find at reasonable prices. Nevertheless, it would be great to have a look at similar videos on their products as well, regardless on our tastes and preferences. Let's not forget that there are more world tour teams using Campagnolo than Sram (4-2 if not mistaken)
Luca Olivieri I’d love to have campag and every few years I try it out to see if my thumbs have grown ;)
Great review Si.
Thanks Tom!
I notice there are a lot of videos about SRAM and Shimano groupsets, but none about Campagnolo groupsets. That's a shame! Please do some videos on Campa groupsets
Super nice! Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!!
I'm well impressed with the shifting of Sram Force Etap Axs, an the whole lay out. But what I find disappointing is the noisy drivetrain. It's unreal. I took it back to LBS where the mechanic is top notch and he tried a few tweaks, but alas it still sounds tinny or whatever.. It's a pity as everything else is more than perfect 👍
same noisy experience here despite any micro-adjustment, didn't have the fortune to turn the bike back, now I'm stack with it, they kinda rushed it to the market
@@quantaloop4002 , any luck with the noise?
I'm sticking with the old eTap. I just purchased the old kit for a new Emonda SLR frame set that I'm building. I just wished the old eTap had the App stuff, too. I thought the prices would've dropped heavily, but they have not, but I finally found a good deal. I guess stock is low and many have decided to go with the old eTap system. Oh well, Sram just keep pushing and forcing different technology.
The price isnt for me.... Im still using claris and im happy! great video though, hope i can afford this one later on!
More affordable... but still way way more then DI2 and way out of reach for a good number of riders. When does the budget budget groupset come out?
105 Di2? I think it is at least a few years out.
Maxwaehrens if they made a 105 Di2 and priced it at 850 bucks Shimano would absolutely kill others in the market
@@ritzk79 And would kill higher Di2 groupsets. Wouldn't they?
krnone no actually. They would make some trade offs like no buttons on the hoods, no textured hood, alloy cranks, ect... so you would be more inclined towards buying Ultegra or DA
GREAT VIDEO INFORMATION IS SPOT ON!!!
I have been on eTap almost 2 years now and don't understand why people say Wired is better? Why? How? ETap for me has proven flawless, much cleaner without junction boxes, and wires all over, I rode Di2 and racers say it shifts faster but I personally didn't like it.(shift speed now faster with axs) I am guessing a lot of people who are here with negative things to say about it have never installed eTap themselves or ridden it.
So nice Hi-technique. Like it, and no Q :D thanks a lot for TODAY VIDEO.
If you could program your phone to shift into certain gear ratios at different speeds for you instead of manually. That would be neat, almost automatic but you could set the shift pattern's as the terrain changes.
Looks good, but given you can now get the original Red eTap groupset (not including brakes) for under £1000, I'd be going for that (as I already have it on my SuperSix, and it's great).
Looks good...but as a TTer, I don’t want a 10t sprocket...too much resistance. I want is a Wireless 1X 12speed groupset with 12-28 compatible with an aero 54 or 55T chainset.
James Ryan Last gen Red Etap Aero should do it for you then
Hi Si , Ken here. Thankx for this video, I bought my 2020 Tarmac Pro with Sram Force after watching this video . Seriously it's so quite all I hear is tyre noise plus they have a youtube channel if you need help with your set up .
Wireless? Smoother? oh my.
A 105 groupset is smoother than axs force and also quieter.
Yes, please.
Wow, impressive, they managed to make the sram force crankset look even uglier than the sram red
That's not hard as I actually really like the look of the red AXS, unlike this Force thing.
But are shimano cranks any sexier? I say not by much. My r7000 2019 105 crank looks okay, but it looks heavy and bulky. Not ''road'' looking to me. More like mountain bike equipment. xD
@@sergarlantyrell7847 The new Red cranks/chain are beautiful.
Jaime iz Real 4 arm design, smooth surface and glossy. What isn’t there to like? Have you ever seen a Dura Ace 9100 crankset? It’s so shiny and pro looking.
This groupset looks ghastly. I was eagerly awaiting this, now I'm just thinking: no way is this getting on my bike... 😔
Love SRAM. Have Rival 22 on one bike, Force/Red on another. I don't need electronic, but when do I'll go with Sram. Wireless is a no brainer in 2019. The price isn't bad, either.
I'm a SRAM man, too.
Mr Si "I love x1" when it came out now would go with the X2 on the paid promotion. Great, I went with the Apex X1 on your recommendation only to find the jumps between gears to be too great. Thanks mate.
Note to self look at independent reviews in future.
Hi James, as I said in the video, I still would run 1x for CX if I was choosing new Force, but the addition of the clutch rear mech for 2X and the lack of a 10-42 cassette means that option looks really good. Just because something new has come out doesn’t mean that suddenly your Apex is any less good. I still have older Force 1X on two bikes and it’s still great.
I'm struggling with the large jumps between the gear ratios. And apex X1 seems to drift out of alignment quite frequently. It was running great before we left for northern Ireland, but had drifted out by the time we were half way around the border.
@@stephenm8270 I guess bigger jumps in the cassette is always going to be a compromise with it. Personally I don't find it any more annoying that an 11-30, which is to say that every now and then I'll struggle to find the optimal gear, but I know plenty of people who do miss the smaller jumps.
As for the alignment stuff, that sounds a bit odd. Was it just a bit of cable stretch?
@@stephenm8270 Tip to get used to bigger gears. Go mountain biking a few times or ride a single speed/fixie.
I don't mind big jumps and in fact I often shit 2-3 gears just because I can't be bothered with the small gaps in the middle of my cassette.
I credit not minding to the fact that I used to ride a single speed mountainbike and now use sram eagle on my current mountainbike while commuting on a single speed.
@@simonrichardson5259 Its done lejog and a few other big miles, should have finished stretching by now. I'll take it apart clean and have a play again - try to fall in love with it ! Think I'm maybe just a Shimano man.
Keep making the great content, you guys are doing a great job.
Think I'm gonna hold out until the make wireless braking.
lol
I think Fred Flinstone style is technically
wireless
Imagine descending Sa Calobra and your battery suddenly dies 😱
Fixed gear bikes technically have wireless rear wheel braking
With hydro disc there are no cables - just hoses :)
Marvelous technology
Thanks, I have a question wich is better for you force etap axs or the new shimano ultegra 12?
Prices Will inevitably plummet once the online discounters get involved and then it becomes an awesome addition to the bike. Etap is Way better than di2 even in its first iteration and this 12 speed is a genuine game changer
Very nice groupset... Is Sram ever gonna make 12speed cassettes with ratios for us mere mortals? Just remember us ordinary cyclists actually buy stuff with our own money... How about a 12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28-32-36 combined with 52-36 chain rings...
gear-calculator.com
You’d think with all the money they charge they can afford a decent focus group.
Have you checked out gcn.eu/smallergears ?
36-36 is the same as 33-33.
@@filipsoltys5504 Not gonna help since sram only makes up to a 33 which if you like really like gears for hills but you still need or want some bigger gears or if you like me want to run a 1x and still need something for high speed sprints and racing.
I will be really interested to see how Shimano react to this. I have Ultegra R8070 on my Canyon Aeroad and when I eventually replace it, if Shimano don't go 12 speed (or possibly 13 by that time!?) I would be tempted to go SRAM for the 1st time, I love what they've done with the smaller chainring sizes and the 10T sprocket.
Shimano 9100/Sram Red 2008 + external cables. Cheap, fast, precise, easy to service and robust.
Ultegra all day long at that price
now check out the new Rival axs price. s*ts all over the Ultegra Di2
I understand that things keep progressing but at the same time it is weird that you need to "charge" a bicycle. What I like about bicycles is that you only need yourself to move forward and with all this new technology we are depending more and more on external energy. I prefer Campagnolo Chorus 11 speed, no batteries, no worries!
Shifter is not considered as power source of movement. That's why even those picky UCI allows it. And you'll absolutely love it once you actually tried it in certain period of time
@@ChromeStrand I know! that's not my point. I said you can't stop progress. And I know it shifts much better. It is about not being dependent on extra sources besides your muscles. You need electricity to charge the batteries and to produce electricity you pollute the planet. A little but if you consider all the bikes that have this it just adds... Maybe I'm too old fashion. Give me Campagnolo any day....
@@willemniehorster9836 and you're replying youtube with abacus right? Just kidding, i get the point of yours. Sometimes it's more tasteful with Analogue style. Like prefering a bows and arrows than gun or even crossbow.
@@ChromeStrand Actually I'm a vegetarian... :-)
Then prefers a knife to kill onions than motorized slicers 😛 like myself!
But yeah, i think even most analogue lovers tend to find e-shifters are acceptable. We are simply living in the future.
So pleased that they finally brought out Force eTap, but it's tainted with the fact that it will need a new free hub body to all existing wheelsets too!
Great video !
Thanks buddy!
So do the road shifters work with myb derailleurs? Shimano doesn't allow it?
After my sixth ride with my new Orbea Orca I must say that the Force AXS is a mechanical catastrophe. The chain sometimes just fall over the big chainring to the outside. The front derallieur is setup according to SRAMs installation guide. Everything is exactly setup like in the guide. Shifting works very good most of the time, but for no apparent reason the chain sometimes falls off. I already had a chain suck with the chain falling to the inside. The results were destroyed protection stickers and scratches on the frame. No recommendations from me.
I have the exact same issues with my 2020 orca OMR with sram force AXS. My chain drops to the inside almost every ride and I have had it aligned by 2 professional LBS who have all claimed to be sram experts. This groupset is a joke and should never have been released. Add to that the extremely noisy rear cassette and its a waste of money! I used to have the chain throwing to the outside however have found that if i keep pressure while chaing up to big ring it will not throw it over, however if you release pressure it tended to do this. Since that I have never thrown the chain over the outside. However if you keep pressure while changing down to small ring I end up munching my frame with a chain drop. I am going ot try a sram chain spotter to see if it fixes it- although you should not have to use a chain spotter on a $3.5k groupset!!!!
Love you guys the numbers at the end dont match what presenter said
Glad I watched, learned a lot more.. I mean, wireless means no wires and no cables??? Whodathunkit?
I literally finished building my new bike just yesterday... Damn you SRAM!
Thanks for the forecast! 📊 Just a small off-topic question: 😅 I have a set of words 🤷♂️. (behave today finger ski upon boy assault summer exhaust beauty stereo over). Can someone explain what this is? 😅
That's Super Nice!
It’s more affordable, only if you compare it to the grossly over-expensive Red Axs. It’s roughly the same as 1st gen Red eTap, if comparing shifter/derailleur costs, but ridiculously expensive when you factor in the costs of new cranks, bb, and cassette, and converting your wheels to take the new cassette design.
I think these groupsets are presently the most expensive marginal gain available. Possibly Ceramic Speed may beat it.
if you factor in the extra weight, and the less efficient drivetrain, because of the smaller rings, sprockets., you'll end up with no gain at all. I have Force 22 and not on the earth can Sram talk me into this or the other AXS. Just a nonsense pricing, and total incompatiblity with everything (yet):
Unfortunately Shimano has to jump on the 12spd bandwagon also, but we will have to see, how they will solve it.
I think if one has a groupset from the 11 speed level from any manufacturer, then there is absolutely no hussle to upgrade. BUt if one is buying a new bike, then one has to stick with Ultegra Di2 for best perfromance for his money.
Big Sram fan. Not a fan of their prices though. Shimano for me then (I have 105 r7000).
There are manufacturers who sell 2019 bikes for close to 2000 EUR with R5800 crankset. To me, that is unacceptable. I am looking for a new bike in Alu, full R7000. 105 is just good.
@@caliniaru1673 If you're on a massive budget, then get an 'ebay special'. I still have my ebay Chinese carbon frame (it has random old shimano parts on it, runs fine) and it's still strong and secure. Owned it for over 3 years now (I only use it in winter now because I have a new bike).
This Chinese carbon frame was used in minus 40c weather for 2 winters now, NO PROBLEMS! Just don't use gears in super cold weather. Fixies all the way for super cold.
Good luck finding your new bike Calin. Take your time shopping. :D
I think this equipment might justify the asking price were it not mass produced in China.
My god, I really like my tiagra, what does it do you ask?
It changes gears in a road bike. That's it, no more no less.
And by the way it's running now for more than 10 years.
Nice bit of kit, As others said can’t see the value of purchasing Di2 :(
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the benefit here over Di2 that it’s totally wireless and doesn’t require a junction box and wires going to the mechs? If so that’s awesome
a little birdy told me that Shimano Dura-Ace...
To improve your audio you could use a e- Scooter.
Love the idea of the 1x .. wish there was more of climber friendly (not pro) setup though... or am I missing something?
I think they should have at least offered the 50t front chainring option to retain the same functionality as Red or Shimano groupsets running a 54 or 55 front chainring on an 11t cassette.
I just ordered one, but without a chain, a cassette and a crank to replace the Tiagra (yes, I know! 😏) My beautiful Salsa Warbird comes furnished with (Salsa doesn't sell the Sram Rival version here in Europe).
I guess, I'll have to upgrade the Shimano 10-speed cassette to a 12-speed Sram. But the bloody thing is so expensive!
Can anyone answer the following questions:
- Are there more affordable 12-speed cassettes I can use with Sram Force eTap AXS derailleurs?
- Do I have to use a flattop chain - or can I get away with a regular one?
- Will Shimano chainrings work with Sram Force eTap AXS derailleurs / cassette / chain combination?
- Will a cheaper Sram crankset work with the Force eTap AXS groupset?
- Are AbsoluteBlack, Rotor, etc. narrow-wide OVAL chainrings compatible with the Sram Force eTap AXS groupset?
- What does "AXS" stand for? I imagine, with a proprietary technology that has to do with the flattop chain?
Questions, questions, questions...
Thinner sprockets and chain worn out faster, so you need to replace your drivetrain more often. Especially on 1x system because of chain curvature on easiest and hardest gears. Worth for racing only. Or you have extra money. Or sponsorship.
What’s interesting is that the sprockets aren’t thinner, it’s the gaps between them that are. And then the chain has larger rollers and more material for the flat top. Time will tell on durability of course but I’m not sure you’re quite right.
@@simonrichardson5259 oh, if that so, i was wrong about cassette... thanks Si.
Going wireless sounds and looks great in all but in my opinion there's certain things that are better off left without tech. The only tech I need on my bike is my rechargeable front/rear lights, and what I would want is a wahoo or garmin computer because my looks to big around my bars.
Loving the rims tho 😍
There is the GX mtb cassette, 11-50, with lesser gaps between gears
No matter how many times I see the flat top chain, still looks so strange to me.
As for CX, I would absolutely stick with my 1X setup and go MTB derailleur and cassette rather than go to the 2X....way less chance of chain jumps in the front even with the clutch. If you stick with the force AXS and 1X then you really have to know the course and adjust your front chainring for each specific course to maximize your potential which can be annoying when you just wanna ride and not be constantly tinkering.
Seems odd that Force AXS equipped complete bikes are being listed at quite a lower price point than the same complete bike equipped with Ultegra Di2 (Orbea and Rose). Or they are the same price - with an upgraded carbon handlebar for the Force bike and and alloy one for the Ultegra bike (Specialized).
This is soooo much better than the RED AXS. Seriously, even if I had the money for RED I'd buy the Force Crank. Simply so I can swap the chainring without the power meter. The Force cassette looks really nice in black as well. Honestly, why would you buy the red? 400 grams....whatever.
Bendersnatchling if you want the very best you get Red.
Wireless brakes next?
Put SRAM red e-tap groupset on my home built S-works, it was cool but the novelty wore off quick and the price was stupid so I took it off after 180miles and sold it now I'm back to ultegra mechanical and dont really miss the electric group. Its designed for pros and people that like to show off their money no real world gains.
The bicycle component market like the dimond market prices dont actually match the value.
Crazy that SRAM doesn't offer a 12sp 10-42 1x cassette option.
So... this is the same technology that failed Degenkolb and Stuyven in Sanremo?
Yeah haven’t heard a peep since...
Seems a bit odd if you want a x1 system your choices are 10-33 cassette or 10-50 cassette nothing in-between
I think they have other mountain bike options smaller than the 50, he just mentioned that to show how big you can go. I assume they have a range of mountain bike gearing that is all compatible.
@@joshtipton7417 No not really the only cassette for mountain biking that is compatible is the eagle cassette 10-50 and the eagle derailleur (MASSIVE) and for road that's the thing 11-33 is the biggest cassette. "Sighs" you've messed this one up Sram you've messed it up badly.
I wish they made force compatible with up to 40 and a cassette that would range from either 10-38 or 10-39 so it would basically be like they're 11 speed 11-36 but with an extra ring... I guess 10-36 could also work pretty well
The mountain cassette is just an 11 speed 10-42 with a 50 tooth ring on it... so you can basically run exactly what you would on 11 speed 10-42 but then you get a 50 tooth bail out gear 🤷♂️
@@kuma_score7536 Oh my bad. I assumed they would possibly offer a tighter range MTB cassette that was compatible
HOW MUCH? :O That's not exactly budget considering you can get a Shimano R8070 hydraulic Di2 groupset for less than half that!
Plus charging 1 battery is a lot easier than charging 4 or however many eTAP needs. I honestly don't get the need for wireless anyway, nobody complained when mechanical groupsets were the only option, except perhaps that cable stretch was annoying.
It's 4 Batteries in total. One CR2032 in every shifter and 1 SRAM rechargeable battery in each the front and back derailleur.
The ones in the shifters hold for an eternity though.
No one complained about Mech groupsets then because without anything to compare to, didn’t know any better. And 2nd those batteries last a loooong time. Plus side, if rear derailleur goes flat... swap out the front one👌
@@darbycurrie3391 oh yeah, they last a looooong time, and then they die the day before a race, like they did to one Polish PRO triathlete yesterday. Because he'd never had to replace them, he didn't even think to have spares... very lucky this didn't happen on race day.
Rival is on my wish list.
In three-four years that is...😉
this week
Will the new 12 speed Force AXS system work with a Red 22 crankset?
Can't wait to see this new groupset in action at this years Belgian Waffle race in California in a few weeks. I'll be riding 7800 Dura Ace with 9-speed XT rear mech and 11-34 cassette. Riding partner will be on the new Force AXS. He had an Ultegra Di2 failure last year that nearly took him out of the race. Hoping for better luck with Force AXS. I agree with most that it is way to expensive.
I dunno guys, I have a feeling they're gonna sell a tonne of these, but maybe not as separate group-sets. I suspect that the group-set market is actually quite small - I'd think most people buy a bike with the group-set they want already on it (therefore at a fraction of the price), and as a result, I'd expect to see this group-set on bikes retailing around the £3.5 - £4k mark in a year or so (I'm thinking Trek 7.0, Canyon SLX 8.0 etc.). I think they've priced the Red for pros who don't pay for it and posers who will pay anything to own the most expensive bike on their Sunday coffee ride.
Still no 180mm crank length option. Got to wait for Dura Ace to go 12-speed and use a Dura Ace crank with a Force groupset like I am doing with 11 speed.