Dude, 3:00 , the suspension on the 800 NK is not "unbranded" , it is KYB short for Kayaba ( Japan ) same suspension you will find on the Aprilia Rs 660 and other CFmoto models ( CLX Sport/Heritage, 800 MT, etc ) .
As a Super duke RR 2023 and a Super adventure S 2023 owner i can say KTM is so overpriced and ridiculous in what they lock behind a paywall. For the price you pay all should be available. On the RR everything is unlocked but on the adventure i had to pay 1500 for the techpack 😅 for something that was already on the bike. And that bike was already a whooping 25.500 euro
1500$ for the tech pack? Id say your dealer is the crook. I paid 300$ but yeah charging for stuff that is there is crazy. Still love my superduke though
CFmoto and KTM designed by Kiska design studio, from Austria. Because they are very very simillar. If I remember correct KTM and CFmoto collaborates since 2011, and also KTM 790 have CFmoto Engine, I own CFmoto already 3+ years ^
@@ChiquenTenderz I stand corrected, you are right 👍... I was completely misremembering something I'd read a few months ago - on checking back it actually states that CFMoto had increased it's stake in Pierer Mobility stock to 2%, further strengthening the relationship 😉
@@MotoGoatono they are not they have a joint venture business that CF Moto owns 51% of and 49% owned by KTM. CF Moto builds most of motors for both bikes.
The 790 motor has been so rigorously tested that they eliminated any problems that developed while running 790 engines nonstop, when one seized, they took it apart and kept fixing the issues. I would love the 790 engine in a sport bike with clip ons so if CFMOTO does that, I’ll be probably trading in my 390 Duke for one.
I said that same thing too. CFmoto has a sports bike overseas. But could you imagine this in the 450SS body but with like a single sider? That would be amazing.
I've got the 800nk Premium addition in white. comes with quick shifter , steering stabilizer and the giant tablet dash . I have been riding it for 5 months now and cannot complain . @Spite If you get the chance to ride the upgraded version . please share your thoughts on it .
In China, the 790 known as "newbie killer" is significantly more expensive than the NK. Which means the NK is much more affordable for more riders especially those inexperienced one. I think that's why CFMOTO has to tune the exact same engine more friendly to ride on the NK.
Of course it is. But it added adjustable suspension and that would make CFMoto even more better buy given that it's cheaper. Edit: This is non-EU version of 790 with 105 hp. EU version has exactly the same power as CFMoto 800 nk.
Not a KTM guy, so I almost skipped this video, but wow, I really like the back-to-back comparo in-a-single-video format! I would like to see more of these.
both great bikes but the 800NK just looks way better to me. the Duke 790 looks more plasticky. the TFT and cruise control are nice extras as well. the 790 should be the cheaper bike here tbh, or they should be the same price at least.
Is this from first hand observation and not just through videos? Just asking because I was in the market a couple of months back for a small displacement bike and went to a dealer that had both brands. I compared the 390duke vs 450nk; I also looked at the 790duke vs 800nk. The KTM bikes for both categories look better in person and the CF moto ones look more plasticky. I mean they're both plasticky, but KTM does looks better in terms of material, texture, and finish. For me at least. (I bought the 390duke, btw)
@@julianlora_ both from first hand observation and in videos the 800NK looks more premium to me. i prefer the style and the colors too. i haven't seen the 450NK in person as it's not in my country yet, but in videos i like the black version more than the 390 Duke. i wouldn't be surprised if the 450NK looks better in person as well tbh. not that any of them look bad btw. the 800NK and the 790 Duke are among my favorites.
@@julianlora_ are you implying that the poor specs ktm is better? cheaply built ktm is same as a pile of cheap trash while sticking a ktm sticker on it would still be defined as cheap. if your duke is outdated and poorly made parts. that the definition of disgusting. dont be fooled by famous brand. you will end up fighting over a trash one day. hahaha
@@UNBIASEDCOMMENT first of all, i'm not saying ktm is better, i'm saying ktm felt more right for me and looked better for me in person. secondly, not everyone goes by specs when purchasing bikes and cars. so what if the duke has an older design? does that make it "outdated" and less valid as a choice? what about the countless other bikes that are "outdated" that are still in the market? should we all just be buying the latest and greatest? the duke being outdated is an insane assertion. i think maybe your disdain for anything ktm is showing there. and while we're on the subject people give too much fscks about specs anyway. check your ego at the door and just enjoy the ride with whatever you have that makes you feel good.
@@julianlora_ if i would get the chance which bike might be enjoyable to ride the most, ofcourse the cfmoto dash is more premium looking than the cheaply built ktm. it is about every day use and for long travel's. not just spending too much for a lightweight trackbike that is cheaply built. eveything will be faster if is made with light cheap materials. ktm is fooling you by making it light and cut cost to be fast. wahahahaha. the specs are so poorly built. not worthy of being so expensive.
I wonder if the NK means "Not a KTM". :-D On a more serious note: We are going to have to take products from Asian markets more serious. They are emerging as a tech hub and that means they are ready to go head to head with the leading brands. People called Japanize brands inferior at one point and a lot of people prefer Japanize cars and motorcycles for their build quality, fit and finish, and resale over others. CF Moto seems to be entering new markets by copying what is already there. That isn't anything new, it's actually widely done and usually to good effect. They are adding direct competition and that is what a lot of people are really afraid of is that someone other than their favorite brand may actually have a comparable or possibly even better product. Better product is subjective, better for the individual. Like Spite said, the 800NK is a better a daily rider and the Duke 790 is better track bike. At the end of the day a rider could buy either and do both. That is good for the market. I'm going to keep loading up the miles on my R1250GSA, there really isn't anything on the market I'd trade it for right now. (I don't buy the first year of any model, maybe after a couple of years I'll trade up to an R1300 once we get a better look at them.)
Premium optics is nothing. Luxury features are nothing. Less weight combined with midrange power is everything. Hence, I got the 790 Duke. Not for the racetrack. For grin on my face when others are executed on my commute. ;)
little note that the 384 lb weight on the duke is in fact dry (though I found one site listing that as "weight with all fluids minus fuel"), and the wet, ready to ride weight is actually listed at 417 lbs. KTM worked some magic getting the bike to feel as light as it does.
CFMoto has no IMU, no lean angle ABS, no Traction Control what so ever, no track mode, no launch control, no supermoto ABS mode, no switchable throttle mapping ... it's fair to say it's electronics package is lacking compared to the KTM. The NK does come with cruise control which is a paid extra on the 790 - and it also has budget adjustable KYB suspension where the Duke has WP Apex suspension with only has adjustment on the rear. In the UK right now they are the same price.
I guess that's not a bad thing, as people who want that will pay extra for the KTM. For me personally, I wouldn't need any of those but cruise control is good. And the cfmoto comes with that
it depends on your own personal use case but I don't see cruise control as being overly relevant on a naked bike ... for me thats more a comfy long range touring bike thing. Owned a 790 Duke for over 4 years and never once felt the need for cruise control - but then I don't commute or tour on it.
Incorrect. The CFMOTO 800NK has a 6D IMU and has switchable throttle mapping standard. With the free CFMOTO app, it also has turn by turn navigation on the display, ride tracking, location tracking, OTA updates, etc. On the KTM, many of the electronic aids are a paid subscription. I suspect most people wanting the extras of the 790 will upgrade to the 890.
@@Clinky1 Nope, you're wrong ... literally every review states the base model 800NK has no IMU at all and CFMoto make no claims as to it having an IMU on their website or any of their merchandising material. It does have selectable riding modes but no selectable throttle maps within those modes. The more expensive '800NK Advanced' model may come with an IMU but the base model most certainly does not. EDIT .... nope ... it appears even the Advanced model doesn't have an IMU - just checked CFMoto website .. no IMU or corner sensing functions listed for the bikes features ....
CFmoto is something we need. All the companies have been too comfortable for too long. When a company like CFmoto comes in, giver the people what they want at affordable pricing and with good reliability and customer service. These other companies will eventually have to change when they lose market share.
Paranoia about China will make that difficult. I'm Aussie and I genuinely have most of the guys I ride with say "I will not buy a China bike (or anything else if avoidable)". I of course note that we can't exist without all the Chinese made products in our lives (or trading with them, generally) and yes, Australia is extremely racist towards China and yes, my mates and much of this country are small-minded ID10Ts. BUT ... that hate for China will take a while for CF Moto to break through here. I love the bigger bikes they're finally producing now, and most brands are packed with Chinese made components anyway.
@@simpletonballsackthey have been exploding in the states. their dealer network has quadrupled in size in just a couple years. i think they'll catch on especially at the price points. they just need to hold out long enough to prove their reliability so people can't keep saying stuff about it. I've had no issues at all despite riding mine literally every day
@@simpletonballsackI live in the U.S., so take this with a grain of salt, but what I think hurts Chinese companies is that when people think of "Made in China," they think all the cheap products that they sell in dollar stores and Walmart. Kind of like how the U.S. vastly underestimated Japan at the start of World War 2, people now think China can't make quality products because, typically, we don't see those quality products on a day to day basis.
@@csolivais1979 That attitude towards Chinese made was fully justified not that long ago. They produced lots of cheap shit. We all knew it because we bought it as it was cheap and by possessing these cheap goods, we confirmed that they were indeed shit. China profited hugely from this and has greatly increased the quality of their output, to their credit and our gain! Hell, they even produce huge numbers of parts and components for every other bike brand, so we really should just see every bike as globally-produced.
pretty sure CFMoto manufactures KTM engines - they have a partnership too which cf owns the majority of so they probably are just offering a more affordable version
daskopocalypse lol Personally I am glad they detuned and chilled out that mid-range torque on this bike. KTM makes fun stuff but for those of us who want something fun AND practical, it's nice to have something a bit more chilled out. Let me get that hit of power when I rev it up. Thats all good. It really is neat to see how different these are. Also a good example that lighter doesnt always mean better.
CFMOTO probably detuned the engine a little to prolong its life. There's evidence of that in the 650's that are a little low on power compared to the Kawasaki equivalent. KTM, on the other hand, don't care if the motor grenades itself as long as it's just outside the warranty period. On the dash comparison it's a pity the US doesn't get the 800NK Advanced model with its massive 8" touchscreen. Having a full size dash display plus maps, phone controls and multimedia playback all on one screen at the same time would show how woeful the KTM dash really is.
Gotta admit KTM motors grenading themselves and their owners talking about it on Reddit seems to be a thing. And KTM seems horribly over-represented on that front. However, I do wonder if the relatively recent trend to chase wheelies has something to do with that. Unless you have oil pickups on both front and rear of the oil sump, chasing wheelies blows engines.
I would not be surprised if it was detuned a little bit to give it a little more reliability. The last thing that CF Moto needs is an unreliable motor so the haters have something to point at. it's also in a bike that has a different sort of vibe and we'll probably be used really differently so it probably will last longer than it's KTM counterpart.
Hey Spite, thanks for the awesome content! I was wondering if you could actually measure the seat height for the 800nk? On paper it says 795mm. But when I sat on it when it was on display here in Malaysia, it felt a lot taller than even my MT07. Even taller than the MT09 actually and some reviewers say it's closer to 820mm. It's been on my mind a lot because I'm like 5'3, 5'4 and weaving in and out of traffic jams in Malaysia is tough. Even on my mt07, I have to tip toe and maneuver around cars. Would be great if you could actually get an accurate measurement. Thanks!
It looks like the Cfmoto has the controls off the Super Duke just blacked out. The CFmoto also looks better. I think overall the Cfmoto is a lot better deal and a better day to day bike.
I really like the look of the NK. The only problem at the moment in the UK is that you can get the 790 Duke for 500 cheaper than the base NK or 1000 cheaper than the advance. Plus the dealer situation is not great. Got to take my clx 700 sport for a service and the nearest dealer is 130 miles away
Embrace it. It's the only way the other companies will finally hear the people about good products at affordable pricing. Honda has been sitting too comfortable for decades the same with Kawasaki and Harley. It's not till someone comes in and shakes the whole damn thing up that these companies will finally listen when they lose market share.
@@tyrant1178 Here here-CFMOTO is an upstart that once people start buying in larger quantities the complacent established brands will be forced to adjust. Have 3k miles on my 300NK and very impatiently waiting a couple months for my next buy, which will likely be the 700CLX.
The CFMoto looks better. Great headlight which you don't show. I hate the TFT on my 390 Duke. Much nicer dash on the 800 than the 790. Overall, I prefer the 800. It can't be much slower. And, as you say, the extra weight can be an advantage: stability etc. Excellent review. Nick
I have been interested in CF Moto since they dropped their clx700. This is the one I will buy. It's the power I want, with good ergos, and a nice size tank. I am in
@@switcherlp780 I have seen the vids and I think it's amazing but I am counting on what we have currently as opposed to what I wish we could have. If it comes to the US before I buy I may get that
Don't you mean camshafts? I know the RC8c engines (790/890) have cam lobe wear because of improper hardening etc but didn't know the crahkshaft have problems also.
Looking forward to test riding one of these at Daytona bike week. CFMoto is on a roll and I hope their success continues. It's really shaking up the competition in which everybody wins.
I am sure KTM would have said do not give the optimum performance because you are running a licensed version of our engine, I have a CF Moto300 sr and am impressed by its performance for the price.
Owner of the EU Advanced version. QS, Stearing stabilizer and a lot more... I love this motorcycle. Hey Spite if you wanna try the Advanced version you have to come to france. Got beer in the fridge ;)
Suzuki Gsx 8s or the Cf moto Nk for a daily ride in the very curvy east Tennessee mountains with tons of interstate between cities? Also which one will hold up better after many years of use possibly the last bike ill buy due to my being over 60.
China is perfectly capable of building high quality products. As long as their factories use quality materials and their quality control is on point (like what a lot of western companies demand from their producing factories) it's all good. That's why a lot of our tech made in china basically is absolutely fine.
I have 2 cfmoto atvs, they are great machines. Besides some ignition problems. My concern with them is always getting parts. Is there gonna be a ecu tune for these bikes? Aftermarket support, ect. Those kinds of things may be a little more difficult to come by with the cfmotos. But a lot has changed in the last few years.
Based on the comparison I would choose the KTM. It's more suited to the tight, twisty roads where I live in the vicinity of Malibu. I'd choose the Cfmoto if I lived where the roads were straighter and cruise control would be more useful.
Good impressions, just some mentions, the suspensions are KYB not unbranded and the brakes, J.JUAN, Bfrembo bought J.Juan, it is the same technology now ✌✌
Fun fact for de duke 790 , You have the option for cruisecontrole + you have track mode that means you have a one to one ratio between your hand and youre throttle
The ONLY thing I don't like about the 800 is how it doesn't have any room for a passenger. I could live with having no luggage options, but I would need a passenger seat and the CFMoto 800MT seems less appealing :/
On the KTM just set up the short cuts on the buttons. (Favorites) You rode the D890R before and complained about the same thing. 😂 On mine one press of the up button opens the ride modes. Pick one. Close the throttle and it's done. Press the down button and it opens trip 1. Simple.
My wife got me a 2023 duke 790, and man oh man I fuggin LOVE it, absolutely no complaints from me. Out of all the bikes I've had / rode, the duke feels absolutely perfect like it was tailored specifically to me.
If they both have those cheap press-on crush fit cam lobes , then both won’t last long like all the others on RUclips , dropping like flys from that cheap manufacturing process.
Either I am crazy or there are contradictions. I could have sworn you said the NK has larger front rotor and 2 pot rear caliper vs ktm smaller front rotor and single pot caliper but THEN later you say they have the SAME brakes....dude? seriously??
The CFMoto residual value is indeed shockingly low, as many former CFMoto owners have attested to. It seems to be less than half of the MSRP value after just one year. However, the good news is that leftover NEW CFMoto's seem to go for slightly more than half the value.
KTM looks better. Quick shifter, great fun ride that you could see the difference in his joy and the best thing is the Duke is light. If you're older like me the lighter the better 🎉🎉🎉.
@@carlosvejar3938 it was at Carter's on a friday and Saturday. I came from LA to catch it. I went to the one in redondo beach earlier this year but the one in vegas had the newer bikes - the nk 800, nk 400 and the newer version of the Papio
@@tdizzle7685 the people at Carter's are the best. It's great. I am really disappointed that I missed it. I am going to get this bike in the spring. CF Moto has some really nice bikes now
Two big reasons for that, price and government regulations. For those who care, to me turn signals fall into one of those things that people will change with aftermarket parts.
@@csolivais1979 I feel like I’d have to sniff it every time I got on my bike to make sure nobody abused her. Imagine waking up to your bike and seeing some dude just bent in half backed up to it 😂😂😂💀💀💀 “I fell”
I’m seriously looking at this bike. The value for money is insane in New Zealand. There are a couple of things that bother me about this bike though. Mainly the fake carbon fiber, the “riding machine” stickers on the back and most importantly, the have tablet screen. The standard screen on that bike you rode looks really good but in New Zealand they only have the Advanced model which is great EXCEPT for that ugly ass screen. I’ll still put it on my list but I dunno if I can bare the screen and some of the plasticky/tacky cosmetics.
@@vegasponyyeah people act like China isn't a leading superpower on the edge of technology with one of the best quantum computers in the world....but motorcycles engines. NA..like ok😅👍
Sorry just won't buy a Chinese big dollar product. I have to do that virtually every other product. Yamaha has joined the CFMoto agreement so expect copies of those as well
It's ridiculous to not include cruise control on a modern bike. If it has throttle by wire and ABS, it's only missing $10 worth of switches and some software to add cruise.
I'm going to have a tough decision next year, i want one of these of a tuono 660, there are a few 660s by me used and by the time you pay dealer fees on the CFMoto it will cost the same as a used 660, I'll have to spend time with both and see which I'm more comfortable on.
I saw someone online cursing their Triumph 660 because it's broken down more than it ran. Meanwhile there's a growing fan base of CFMoto riders in my country that swears that their bikes are reliable. Maybe you could try out the cfmoto since it's new over a used bike.
@pepe9565 I want something sporty, I have a harley street glide for the long comfortable rides, I also have a cfmoto 650NK right now, only think I want is more power and cruise.
At the price point you better be sure you want to keep that CFMoto until the wheels fall off and burn because whatever you think you saved on the purchase price you will lose x3 on the backside. Maybe even more. Ok probably more. Buyer's perception being what it is I would just say wait a year and buy that CFMoto used at a 50% discount. You're not going to find that kind of depreciation in the "not Chinese name brand" world. Hey, I don't make the rules...
Very true. It’ll stay that way for the foreseeable future. I think the NK800 is probably the better bike but as you say you should plan on keeping it. If you chop and change you will lose massive amounts of money.
Dude, 3:00 , the suspension on the 800 NK is not "unbranded" , it is KYB short for Kayaba ( Japan ) same suspension you will find on the Aprilia Rs 660 and other CFmoto models ( CLX Sport/Heritage, 800 MT, etc ) .
Yeah he kind of showed lack of knowledge here...
The new Suzuki Gsx 8s has also Kayaba Suspension.
Tracer 9 GT +
As a Super duke RR 2023 and a Super adventure S 2023 owner i can say KTM is so overpriced and ridiculous in what they lock behind a paywall. For the price you pay all should be available. On the RR everything is unlocked but on the adventure i had to pay 1500 for the techpack 😅 for something that was already on the bike. And that bike was already a whooping 25.500 euro
its even more over priced in china we have to pay 20000usd for a 890duke so we are happy to see more competitions so we can get cheaper bike
1500$ for the tech pack? Id say your dealer is the crook. I paid 300$ but yeah charging for stuff that is there is crazy. Still love my superduke though
CFmoto and KTM designed by Kiska design studio, from Austria. Because they are very very simillar. If I remember correct KTM and CFmoto collaborates since 2011, and also KTM 790 have CFmoto Engine, I own CFmoto already 3+ years ^
CFMoto and KTM are both owned by the same company. the KTM 790 bikes are now all made in china by CFMoto under KTM supervision
@@MotoGoato They're not owned by the same company. KTM is owned by Pierer Mobility AG, CFmoto is independent. They have a manufacturing partnership.
@@ChiquenTenderz I stand corrected, you are right 👍... I was completely misremembering something I'd read a few months ago - on checking back it actually states that CFMoto had increased it's stake in Pierer Mobility stock to 2%, further strengthening the relationship 😉
This bike was not designed by Kiska (the CFMOTO adventure bikes are). This bike was designed by Modena40, CFMOTO’s European R&D house.
@@MotoGoatono they are not they have a joint venture business that CF Moto owns 51% of and 49% owned by KTM. CF Moto builds most of motors for both bikes.
The 790 motor has been so rigorously tested that they eliminated any problems that developed while running 790 engines nonstop, when one seized, they took it apart and kept fixing the issues.
I would love the 790 engine in a sport bike with clip ons so if CFMOTO does that, I’ll be probably trading in my 390 Duke for one.
I said that same thing too. CFmoto has a sports bike overseas. But could you imagine this in the 450SS body but with like a single sider? That would be amazing.
Isn't that just the rc 8c?
@@augustinhooo yes and no. KTM hasn't really been making the RC8s
Pay attention to the 675SR/SS, this will be a 100hp triple that I am VERY interested in, and likely launches as a 2025 model.
@@switcherlp780I’m excited for this as I’m a huge fan for triples
That "unbranded source" of suspension is KYB. As stated on their website.
I've got the 800nk Premium addition in white.
comes with quick shifter , steering stabilizer and the giant tablet dash .
I have been riding it for 5 months now and cannot complain .
@Spite
If you get the chance to ride the upgraded version . please share your thoughts on it .
Are you in the US? Can't seem to find the one with the big screen.
Even here in Costa Rica we have the NK800 Full extras
Aren’t the CFMOTO bikes built in the same factory at the KTM 790 Duke ???
Yes, KTM partnered with CF Moto
wouldn't surprise me if they even rolled of the same production line...
Yes
NO lol.....no no NO
The joint-venture company is known as CFMOTO-KTMR2R in which CFMOTO holds a majority share of 51 per cent
After test riding a bunch of CFs including the NK700, def have to go NK
With all the added features such as fully adjustable suspension, more stable and a lower price I'd go with the CF Moto !!
If you are the one guy that never wants to sell your bike, I agree. CFMoto has trouble selling them new.
Great decision. We all know that chinese products ofers great quality
😂😂😂
@@podunkman2709 but KTM is a chinese product as well? Man, wake up.
Always amazed at how capable the KTM 790 is on the race track. The handling is phenomenal.
In China, the 790 known as "newbie killer" is significantly more expensive than the NK. Which means the NK is much more affordable for more riders especially those inexperienced one. I think that's why CFMOTO has to tune the exact same engine more friendly to ride on the NK.
The difference in power between the two is minimal. I highly recommend first time riders don't get this.
@@spitescorner800 NK is also known as the 'newbie killer' in china, they are cheap and powerful and have no TC (previous versions).
If we only know why chinese products are cheaper 🤔
@@podunkman2709China produces all components within China so they have a better resource supply. Like America did in its fledgling years.
Of course it is. But it added adjustable suspension and that would make CFMoto even more better buy given that it's cheaper.
Edit: This is non-EU version of 790 with 105 hp. EU version has exactly the same power as CFMoto 800 nk.
Not a KTM guy, so I almost skipped this video, but wow, I really like the back-to-back comparo in-a-single-video format! I would like to see more of these.
Welp, time to ditch my 650NK and upgrade to the 800NK.
doit
I would too!
Im holding out for their version of the 1290.
@@chucksherron i wanna see the liter sportbike
face it. CFMoto is the cool bike now 😂
both great bikes but the 800NK just looks way better to me. the Duke 790 looks more plasticky.
the TFT and cruise control are nice extras as well. the 790 should be the cheaper bike here tbh, or they should be the same price at least.
Is this from first hand observation and not just through videos? Just asking because I was in the market a couple of months back for a small displacement bike and went to a dealer that had both brands. I compared the 390duke vs 450nk; I also looked at the 790duke vs 800nk. The KTM bikes for both categories look better in person and the CF moto ones look more plasticky. I mean they're both plasticky, but KTM does looks better in terms of material, texture, and finish. For me at least. (I bought the 390duke, btw)
@@julianlora_ both from first hand observation and in videos the 800NK looks more premium to me. i prefer the style and the colors too. i haven't seen the 450NK in person as it's not in my country yet, but in videos i like the black version more than the 390 Duke. i wouldn't be surprised if the 450NK looks better in person as well tbh.
not that any of them look bad btw.
the 800NK and the 790 Duke are among my favorites.
@@julianlora_ are you implying that the poor specs ktm is better? cheaply built ktm is same as a pile of cheap trash while sticking a ktm sticker on it would still be defined as cheap. if your duke is outdated and poorly made parts. that the definition of disgusting. dont be fooled by famous brand. you will end up fighting over a trash one day. hahaha
@@UNBIASEDCOMMENT first of all, i'm not saying ktm is better, i'm saying ktm felt more right for me and looked better for me in person.
secondly, not everyone goes by specs when purchasing bikes and cars. so what if the duke has an older design? does that make it "outdated" and less valid as a choice? what about the countless other bikes that are "outdated" that are still in the market? should we all just be buying the latest and greatest? the duke being outdated is an insane assertion.
i think maybe your disdain for anything ktm is showing there. and while we're on the subject people give too much fscks about specs anyway. check your ego at the door and just enjoy the ride with whatever you have that makes you feel good.
@@julianlora_ if i would get the chance which bike might be enjoyable to ride the most, ofcourse the cfmoto dash is more premium looking than the cheaply built ktm. it is about every day use and for long travel's. not just spending too much for a lightweight trackbike that is cheaply built. eveything will be faster if is made with light cheap materials. ktm is fooling you by making it light and cut cost to be fast. wahahahaha. the specs are so poorly built. not worthy of being so expensive.
I wonder if the NK means "Not a KTM". :-D
On a more serious note: We are going to have to take products from Asian markets more serious. They are emerging as a tech hub and that means they are ready to go head to head with the leading brands. People called Japanize brands inferior at one point and a lot of people prefer Japanize cars and motorcycles for their build quality, fit and finish, and resale over others.
CF Moto seems to be entering new markets by copying what is already there. That isn't anything new, it's actually widely done and usually to good effect. They are adding direct competition and that is what a lot of people are really afraid of is that someone other than their favorite brand may actually have a comparable or possibly even better product. Better product is subjective, better for the individual. Like Spite said, the 800NK is a better a daily rider and the Duke 790 is better track bike. At the end of the day a rider could buy either and do both. That is good for the market.
I'm going to keep loading up the miles on my R1250GSA, there really isn't anything on the market I'd trade it for right now. (I don't buy the first year of any model, maybe after a couple of years I'll trade up to an R1300 once we get a better look at them.)
Premium optics is nothing.
Luxury features are nothing.
Less weight combined with midrange power is everything.
Hence, I got the 790 Duke.
Not for the racetrack.
For grin on my face when others are executed on my commute. ;)
little note that the 384 lb weight on the duke is in fact dry (though I found one site listing that as "weight with all fluids minus fuel"), and the wet, ready to ride weight is actually listed at 417 lbs. KTM worked some magic getting the bike to feel as light as it does.
If that's the case, I applaud KTM. It's the lightest feeling bike north of 400lbs ever
20:13 you can add Cruise Control to the 790, most dealers will fit it with no labour charge when you buy the bike
CFMoto has no IMU, no lean angle ABS, no Traction Control what so ever, no track mode, no launch control, no supermoto ABS mode, no switchable throttle mapping ... it's fair to say it's electronics package is lacking compared to the KTM. The NK does come with cruise control which is a paid extra on the 790 - and it also has budget adjustable KYB suspension where the Duke has WP Apex suspension with only has adjustment on the rear. In the UK right now they are the same price.
I guess that's not a bad thing, as people who want that will pay extra for the KTM. For me personally, I wouldn't need any of those but cruise control is good. And the cfmoto comes with that
it depends on your own personal use case but I don't see cruise control as being overly relevant on a naked bike ... for me thats more a comfy long range touring bike thing. Owned a 790 Duke for over 4 years and never once felt the need for cruise control - but then I don't commute or tour on it.
Incorrect. The CFMOTO 800NK has a 6D IMU and has switchable throttle mapping standard. With the free CFMOTO app, it also has turn by turn navigation on the display, ride tracking, location tracking, OTA updates, etc. On the KTM, many of the electronic aids are a paid subscription. I suspect most people wanting the extras of the 790 will upgrade to the 890.
@@Clinky1 Nope, you're wrong ... literally every review states the base model 800NK has no IMU at all and CFMoto make no claims as to it having an IMU on their website or any of their merchandising material. It does have selectable riding modes but no selectable throttle maps within those modes. The more expensive '800NK Advanced' model may come with an IMU but the base model most certainly does not. EDIT .... nope ... it appears even the Advanced model doesn't have an IMU - just checked CFMoto website .. no IMU or corner sensing functions listed for the bikes features ....
Cfmoto advance model. Quick shifter, 8” touch screen… to name a few. Ironically, the KTM 790 is actually built by Cfmoto 😉
but comes expensive after they stick a ktm sticker to it wahahaha.
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in my country malaysia, cf moto 800nk package with steering damper. 8 inches TFT meter. and the prices wayy cheaper than duke 790
CFmoto is something we need. All the companies have been too comfortable for too long. When a company like CFmoto comes in, giver the people what they want at affordable pricing and with good reliability and customer service. These other companies will eventually have to change when they lose market share.
Paranoia about China will make that difficult. I'm Aussie and I genuinely have most of the guys I ride with say "I will not buy a China bike (or anything else if avoidable)". I of course note that we can't exist without all the Chinese made products in our lives (or trading with them, generally) and yes, Australia is extremely racist towards China and yes, my mates and much of this country are small-minded ID10Ts. BUT ... that hate for China will take a while for CF Moto to break through here. I love the bigger bikes they're finally producing now, and most brands are packed with Chinese made components anyway.
@@simpletonballsackthey have been exploding in the states. their dealer network has quadrupled in size in just a couple years. i think they'll catch on especially at the price points.
they just need to hold out long enough to prove their reliability so people can't keep saying stuff about it. I've had no issues at all despite riding mine literally every day
@@simpletonballsackI live in the U.S., so take this with a grain of salt, but what I think hurts Chinese companies is that when people think of "Made in China," they think all the cheap products that they sell in dollar stores and Walmart. Kind of like how the U.S. vastly underestimated Japan at the start of World War 2, people now think China can't make quality products because, typically, we don't see those quality products on a day to day basis.
@@csolivais1979 That attitude towards Chinese made was fully justified not that long ago. They produced lots of cheap shit. We all knew it because we bought it as it was cheap and by possessing these cheap goods, we confirmed that they were indeed shit. China profited hugely from this and has greatly increased the quality of their output, to their credit and our gain! Hell, they even produce huge numbers of parts and components for every other bike brand, so we really should just see every bike as globally-produced.
@@SummitCoyote "exploding in the states" is a funny/ironic way to describe it, but I get what you mean 😂
pretty sure CFMoto manufactures KTM engines - they have a partnership too which cf owns the majority of so they probably are just offering a more affordable version
daskopocalypse lol Personally I am glad they detuned and chilled out that mid-range torque on this bike. KTM makes fun stuff but for those of us who want something fun AND practical, it's nice to have something a bit more chilled out. Let me get that hit of power when I rev it up. Thats all good. It really is neat to see how different these are. Also a good example that lighter doesnt always mean better.
I thought it comes with some electronics that lets you neuter it with a push of a button. I think they call it rider modes.
CFMOTO probably detuned the engine a little to prolong its life. There's evidence of that in the 650's that are a little low on power compared to the Kawasaki equivalent. KTM, on the other hand, don't care if the motor grenades itself as long as it's just outside the warranty period.
On the dash comparison it's a pity the US doesn't get the 800NK Advanced model with its massive 8" touchscreen. Having a full size dash display plus maps, phone controls and multimedia playback all on one screen at the same time would show how woeful the KTM dash really is.
wait that exists!? woah. yeah we neeed that
I don't know why we don't have the Advanced model. That seems dumb.
@@spitescorner Maybe it's an anti-competition license deal with KTM? The Duke 790 hasn't been available in Australia for a few years.
Gotta admit KTM motors grenading themselves and their owners talking about it on Reddit seems to be a thing. And KTM seems horribly over-represented on that front. However, I do wonder if the relatively recent trend to chase wheelies has something to do with that. Unless you have oil pickups on both front and rear of the oil sump, chasing wheelies blows engines.
I would not be surprised if it was detuned a little bit to give it a little more reliability. The last thing that CF Moto needs is an unreliable motor so the haters have something to point at.
it's also in a bike that has a different sort of vibe and we'll probably be used really differently so it probably will last longer than it's KTM counterpart.
The ktm weighs (WITHOUT FUEL) 174 kg
The Cfmoto weighs (WITH LIQUIDS) 186/189 kg
so its pretty much the same:D
Hey Spite, thanks for the awesome content! I was wondering if you could actually measure the seat height for the 800nk? On paper it says 795mm. But when I sat on it when it was on display here in Malaysia, it felt a lot taller than even my MT07. Even taller than the MT09 actually and some reviewers say it's closer to 820mm. It's been on my mind a lot because I'm like 5'3, 5'4 and weaving in and out of traffic jams in Malaysia is tough. Even on my mt07, I have to tip toe and maneuver around cars. Would be great if you could actually get an accurate measurement. Thanks!
Both kinda nice but Ill take the Griso over either one of them anyday.
It looks like the Cfmoto has the controls off the Super Duke just blacked out. The CFmoto also looks better. I think overall the Cfmoto is a lot better deal and a better day to day bike.
Its chinese...sorry but i've had chineseium crap twice, never gonna trust the Bonk.
I agree, back to back comparison, I'd take the CF Moto.
Lol you for real? The Cf looks ugly af. It looks like as if it hit a concrete wall. chinese shit
I really like the look of the NK. The only problem at the moment in the UK is that you can get the 790 Duke for 500 cheaper than the base NK or 1000 cheaper than the advance. Plus the dealer situation is not great.
Got to take my clx 700 sport for a service and the nearest dealer is 130 miles away
I wouldn't buy either, for different reasons. Overrated Austrian shite vs poor quality chinese shite, imo.
You can customize the arrow buttons on the 790. I have my UP button set to riding modes.
I'd pass on both, and get a KTM 890. If money was tight, a Suzuki 8S or Yamaha MT07/09 etc
So which one has longer seat to footpeg distance?
I have always liked the Duke. The price in my country is $8.5k for cfmoto but $13.5k for the Duke. Definitely cfmoto is the only choice we have
Since KTM license their engine to CFMoto, maybe KTM could license CFMoto's design. The NK looks so much better!
also the cfmotos are 4 year warranty
"Looks". End of story
KTM makes some of the ugliest bikes it blows my mind people think they look good haha
It feels weird wanting a cfmoto
Embrace it. It's the only way the other companies will finally hear the people about good products at affordable pricing. Honda has been sitting too comfortable for decades the same with Kawasaki and Harley. It's not till someone comes in and shakes the whole damn thing up that these companies will finally listen when they lose market share.
Very true
@@tyrant1178 Here here-CFMOTO is an upstart that once people start buying in larger quantities the complacent established brands will be forced to adjust. Have 3k miles on my 300NK and very impatiently waiting a couple months for my next buy, which will likely be the 700CLX.
no its not, chinese bike will soon be the best believe it or not
The CFMoto looks better. Great headlight which you don't show. I hate the TFT on my 390 Duke. Much nicer dash on the 800 than the 790. Overall, I prefer the 800. It can't be much slower. And, as you say, the extra weight can be an advantage: stability etc.
Excellent review. Nick
I have been interested in CF Moto since they dropped their clx700. This is the one I will buy. It's the power I want, with good ergos, and a nice size tank. I am in
I feel the exact same way.
Have you seen any vids on the Advanced model? They are not in the USA yet as far as I have seen, but man do you get a lot more with that one.
@@switcherlp780 I have seen the vids and I think it's amazing but I am counting on what we have currently as opposed to what I wish we could have. If it comes to the US before I buy I may get that
These KTM 790/890 engines eat their camshafts alive. Might want to mention that.
Don't you mean camshafts? I know the RC8c engines (790/890) have cam lobe wear because of improper hardening etc but didn't know the crahkshaft have problems also.
@@ruysk thank you for the correction! Camshafts*
The sole purpose these two bikes are made for is for pure fun, so buy the bigger fun. KTM hands down. Unsolicited advice from a 890R owner.. :)
Is this the same motor they will be sticking in the Svarrtpilen 801?
probably
StrickenChips ruined the Dasko Fiasko
Looking forward to test riding one of these at Daytona bike week. CFMoto is on a roll and I hope their success continues. It's really shaking up the competition in which everybody wins.
This guy gets it
As far as i know, duke 790 haves some features like, ABS cornering, traction,,, does 800NK have those?
I am sure KTM would have said do not give the optimum performance because you are running a licensed version of our engine, I have a CF Moto300 sr and am impressed by its performance for the price.
Owner of the EU Advanced version. QS, Stearing stabilizer and a lot more... I love this motorcycle. Hey Spite if you wanna try the Advanced version you have to come to france. Got beer in the fridge ;)
Suzuki Gsx 8s or the Cf moto Nk for a daily ride in the very curvy east Tennessee mountains with tons of interstate between cities? Also which one will hold up better after many years of use possibly the last bike ill buy due to my being over 60.
I would get the CFM but if both were in front of a cliff and I could pick one for free I would take the pricier one still.
China is perfectly capable of building high quality products. As long as their factories use quality materials and their quality control is on point (like what a lot of western companies demand from their producing factories) it's all good. That's why a lot of our tech made in china basically is absolutely fine.
I have 2 cfmoto atvs, they are great machines. Besides some ignition problems. My concern with them is always getting parts. Is there gonna be a ecu tune for these bikes? Aftermarket support, ect. Those kinds of things may be a little more difficult to come by with the cfmotos. But a lot has changed in the last few years.
The Chinese may finally wake the Japanese up. How do bikes like the trans alp and 800 Vstrom not have cruise control?
Based on the comparison I would choose the KTM. It's more suited to the tight, twisty roads where I live in the vicinity of Malibu. I'd choose the Cfmoto if I lived where the roads were straighter and cruise control would be more useful.
Good impressions, just some mentions, the suspensions are KYB not unbranded and the brakes, J.JUAN, Bfrembo bought J.Juan, it is the same technology now ✌✌
In the KTM you have various shortcuts to have the ride modes handy if you need to change them often, no need to go that deep into the menu.
Fun fact for de duke 790 ,
You have the option for cruisecontrole + you have track mode that means you have a one to one ratio between your hand and youre throttle
The ONLY thing I don't like about the 800 is how it doesn't have any room for a passenger.
I could live with having no luggage options, but I would need a passenger seat and the CFMoto 800MT seems less appealing :/
On the KTM just set up the short cuts on the buttons.
(Favorites)
You rode the D890R before and complained about the same thing. 😂
On mine one press of the up button opens the ride modes.
Pick one.
Close the throttle and it's done.
Press the down button and it opens trip 1.
Simple.
I agree the 800NK looks more premium.
My wife got me a 2023 duke 790, and man oh man I fuggin LOVE it, absolutely no complaints from me. Out of all the bikes I've had / rode, the duke feels absolutely perfect like it was tailored specifically to me.
😮 your wife got you a 790 duke 😮 any chance we can swap mine will bring you food 😂😂
If they both have those cheap press-on crush fit cam lobes , then both won’t last long like all the others on RUclips , dropping like flys from that cheap manufacturing process.
Either I am crazy or there are contradictions. I could have sworn you said the NK has larger front rotor and 2 pot rear caliper vs ktm smaller front rotor and single pot caliper but THEN later you say they have the SAME brakes....dude? seriously??
The 790 Duke is now in Europe only available with 95 Hp , the 105hp is history ......
Its cheaper but i wonder what the resell values? Probably low on both bikes XD
The CFMoto residual value is indeed shockingly low, as many former CFMoto owners have attested to. It seems to be less than half of the MSRP value after just one year. However, the good news is that leftover NEW CFMoto's seem to go for slightly more than half the value.
KTM looks better. Quick shifter, great fun ride that you could see the difference in his joy and the best thing is the Duke is light. If you're older like me the lighter the better 🎉🎉🎉.
The original intent of GAS GAS was to make a more affordable alternative to KTM, so why aren't these new Chinese bike's GAS GAS's?
You guys know cf has made engines since 89 but they hold a contract for KTM and build KTM motorcycle so both bikes come put of same factory
Why aren't you using quick shifter, Im lucky my 19 790 was made in Austria
I rode that bike a couple a weeks ago at the cfmoto demo in vegas and i was very impressed! I'm 6-5 and its a comfortable and very smooth ride
Damn it there was a demo in Vegas! I missed it. Where was it at? Boulder, Rancho or Carter's?
@@carlosvejar3938 it was at Carter's on a friday and Saturday. I came from LA to catch it. I went to the one in redondo beach earlier this year but the one in vegas had the newer bikes - the nk 800, nk 400 and the newer version of the Papio
@@tdizzle7685 the people at Carter's are the best. It's great. I am really disappointed that I missed it. I am going to get this bike in the spring. CF Moto has some really nice bikes now
I think you really slighted the viewers by failing to WEIGH these two bikes to quote the actual real weight ....i just have to go somewhere else now
Under every reliable chineese vike lies a stolen copy from a popular manufacturer. Chineese cant make good bikes unless they copy someone. Bugmen
So the new KTM is Chinese.... why wouldn't you expect for there to be other models on the same engine.
There is a cruise control option on ktm 790&890 in Europe … obviously at extra cost
I tried to go buy a new CF Moto and they tacked on almost 3 grand in fuck you charges so i definitely will never be buying a brand new bike
It’s fascinating to me so many bikes still have those butt plug front turn signals
Two big reasons for that, price and government regulations. For those who care, to me turn signals fall into one of those things that people will change with aftermarket parts.
@@csolivais1979 I feel like I’d have to sniff it every time I got on my bike to make sure nobody abused her. Imagine waking up to your bike and seeing some dude just bent in half backed up to it 😂😂😂💀💀💀
“I fell”
I’m seriously looking at this bike. The value for money is insane in New Zealand. There are a couple of things that bother me about this bike though. Mainly the fake carbon fiber, the “riding machine” stickers on the back and most importantly, the have tablet screen. The standard screen on that bike you rode looks really good but in New Zealand they only have the Advanced model which is great EXCEPT for that ugly ass screen. I’ll still put it on my list but I dunno if I can bare the screen and some of the plasticky/tacky cosmetics.
Looking at this two, I would get an MT09, made in japan, every day.
Funny how KTM have China make the 790 Duke!
For mine China is a joke on the west!
Cf moto is my favorite bike i have bought. Every other brand is a paid logo sticker
A Chinese copy of a KTM motor. I am sure reliability will not be a problem.
That's a kool looking scarcasm
Lol for real. Why copy the least reliable motor out.
what's up, fellow people still living in 2010
@@vegasponyyeah people act like China isn't a leading superpower on the edge of technology with one of the best quantum computers in the world....but motorcycles engines. NA..like ok😅👍
It is one of the most tested motors that has ever been put in a motorcycle.
Oh, why can't they just put a full fairing on these?
i would buy the cf moto, just tune the ecu + exhaust meaby intake it would prob be perfect
Sorry just won't buy a Chinese big dollar product. I have to do that virtually every other product. Yamaha has joined the CFMoto agreement so expect copies of those as well
interesting prolly mt07 with cruise control im guessin.....
Man you guys are hating on china so whats up with that , i give the Chinese credit for willing to wrestle there way in the big four
CFmoto has KYB suspension, hardly unbranded....
It's ridiculous to not include cruise control on a modern bike. If it has throttle by wire and ABS, it's only missing $10 worth of switches and some software to add cruise.
Cf Moto for me.
I enjoy my Duke it's a lot of fun
The seat does bug ya a little but it's fun to throw this around
it's a rebadge like BMW do the same thing with their 300 and other companies do the some thing
Chinese ktm , makes sense as they both are poor at manufacturing while great at selling the gullible
I'm going to have a tough decision next year, i want one of these of a tuono 660, there are a few 660s by me used and by the time you pay dealer fees on the CFMoto it will cost the same as a used 660, I'll have to spend time with both and see which I'm more comfortable on.
I saw someone online cursing their Triumph 660 because it's broken down more than it ran. Meanwhile there's a growing fan base of CFMoto riders in my country that swears that their bikes are reliable.
Maybe you could try out the cfmoto since it's new over a used bike.
Or get the Honda Transalp 750, the safest choice. I've tried it and I liked it.
@pepe9565 I want something sporty, I have a harley street glide for the long comfortable rides, I also have a cfmoto 650NK right now, only think I want is more power and cruise.
U where on sport mode? No quick shifter? Great review!!
What about gear changes? Not a strong point for Chinese bikes...
How is the 790 not have adjustable suspension but the 390 does
At the price point you better be sure you want to keep that CFMoto until the wheels fall off and burn because whatever you think you saved on the purchase price you will lose x3 on the backside. Maybe even more. Ok probably more.
Buyer's perception being what it is I would just say wait a year and buy that CFMoto used at a 50% discount. You're not going to find that kind of depreciation in the "not Chinese name brand" world. Hey, I don't make the rules...
Very true. It’ll stay that way for the foreseeable future. I think the NK800 is probably the better bike but as you say you should plan on keeping it. If you chop and change you will lose massive amounts of money.
working with chinese company is just like taking steroids
How tall are you? For comparison, i think its a small bike