The way you based your video on empirical results is much appreciated. Also much appreciated is that your high-quality narration did not contain a single Uuuuuhhhh, AaaaaHhhhh, or DuuuuHhhhh, all of which are highly irritating utterances and plague the speech of most RUclips presenters. Good job, Sir !
Very well made and narrated. Thanks for spending your time and resources for the sake of great educational videos for us brothers of the shotgun. I found this information to be invaluable when it comes to making a choice regarding shotgun ammo. I will subscribe and please keep em' coming!
A well run test. I must point out though that I heard you mention geese. I don't know if you know or not, but under current regulations, no matter what it is plated with, it is a violation of law to hunt waterfowl with ammunition containing lead in the U.S.A, Canada, and now I believe the U.K.. That is in or out of a steel shot zone.
I agree with what you say but just yesterday we were running coyotes with dogs and there was a coyote on top a ridge at around 55 yards and the Hornady rolled him backwards down the ridge to the bottom.
yes the 6 to 9 inches of penetration shown here on the 40 yard shot May be to shallow if we were talking SD against a human but plenty of good medicine for a coyote. however I would only take clean broad side shots and only if I felt I could consistently get at least around 10 to 15 pellets or more in the torso of the coyote and it seems by going on is 40 yard results it could be quite possible
Very much appreciate you subscribing! Sadly I think my gelatin testing days are all in the past, hope you find useful the approach I've been taking in more recent years in more recent episodes! Cheers, and thanks for watching.
I just purchased some S&B “buckshot” #BB load at 2 3/4 in shells. I’m curious if these would be a decent load for home defense if over penetration is a concern? Thanks so much. Keep the shotgun content coming! 🤠👍🏻
Don't know anything about home-defence, but know that I would not feel comfy taking any form of BB load out deer hunting! Thanks for watching and cheers.
Very well reasoned. I'd be curious to know how much tin and antimony are in those shot before they plated it. That matters too. I remember reading a guy's forum post somewhere where he showed that one brand of plated shot was quite a bit softer than another brand's. IMO, any brand with a good product should claim not just plated or hardened, but list the shot along with plating and a brinell rating. Then you could really know what you are buying. (A cheaper alloy can be hardened by a tempering process, so the recipe is less relevant to the user than the final hardness. On the other hand, some people use shot to "sweeten" a bullet alloy, so the recipe matters to some customers too.)
You want to tighten up those patterns,you'll have to go to the Browning BPS with the invector-Plus choke system (over-bored barrel) and use the super-turkey full choke by Hastings.
I fired a round of this stuff from a franchi affinity with a 28" barrel and a IC choke, as per hornady's directive/recommendation, and I had 30 pellets on a square of cardboard 12"x12". Not sure if that's good, bad, or indifferent. Just my experience. One thing about penetration- you're testing everything through a riot barrel. You're dropping off your velocity considerably. I wonder what would happen if you used a longer barrel, penetration-wise?
Recommend you chrono some shotgun loads….my experience is that after about 14 inches (I have done a bunch of chromo work with barrels ranging form 8 inches all the way up to 28 inches), shotgun loads typically don't build any more velocity.
Longer barrels don't increase velocity. They also don't increase range. Longer barrels are used for tracking moving targets. That why most ppl will use longer barrels for wing shooting. It allows for smoother tracking of your target and that it. The only increase in distance in a 28" barrel from a 20" barrel is 8". I use these rounds too and they are good. I have better patterns in my mod choke then my cylinder. Getting an IC soon to try it. I tried a full and turkey choke to see what happens and it just keeps getting worse.
How is the recoil and blast with this load? I've heard that Hornady's predator #4 buck has a hell of a blast (noise and light) that might adversely effect a defensive shooter.
This ammomis good stuff for sure! Your problem is first using the improved cylinder versus the Remington modified choke tube. Your leakage was likely from it being improved cylinder. Try the rem modified choke tube and betting your results are better. Hornday recommends either but I have found the modified tube to be better. Not many shotgun loads a going to be a consistent 60 yard coyote killer, the best I have sued has been Hevi shot but at those prices today 50.00 plus per 10 I am more than Happy with the Hornady loads. I also like 4 Buck probably the most consistent shotgun round for coyotes out there. The issues being who makes it anymore besides Remington? Then harder to find as well. I have not seen just 100's of coyotes killed with a shotgun but well over a 1,000 coyotes as I did full time predator control out west for a period of year and from the airplanes 4 Buck due to results and cost was the round of choice. Steel shot just sucks and looses a lot of penetration past 25 yards, horrible results, the Hornady load for den calling is good stuff. Love the nickel plate better than copper for added penetration. Again try this test again with a modified choke and see if your results are not better. Happy Hunting.
you would be correct with standard wad loads going for a tighter choke however most flight control wads actually pattern tighter with more open chokes so actually the opposite. he would probably be better going for a more open cylinder choke rather than the already quite open improved cylinder choke he is using. only flight control wad I know of that actually responds better to tighter choking is Winchesters diamond cut chokes because they don't have the petals on the rear that the tighter chokes suppress opening and cause drag on the wad suppressing there maximum performance like the Versatite wads used here in this particular Hornady load have.
Many of us in the coyote hunting world would love to see this same test on the Heavy shot dead coyote in both T shot and #4 buck. Any chance of a video on that would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks..
Would love to test out some heavy-shot T and #4, but sadly with work and kids keeping me super-busy I suspect my gelatin testing days are behind me. Sorry for the bad news!
@@FORDEVR I can't remember which forum it was on, but a guy shot a doe broadside at 40 yds with Kent #1 tungsten goose load and he had three pellets that made a complete pass thru. Needless to say the deer dropped in her tracks.
Probably be better to use a modified or full choke to get a tighter pattern at those distances but as far as penetration that's a different story. You'd think their boasting of using a higher antimony amount with the lead wouldn't allow it to deform so easy. Weird.
Love your videos. With all your testing which BB ammo do you feel is best for penetration on coyotes and what is your choice for a second Ammo as far as the one that patterns the tightest?
Great video. exactly what I was looking for. The only thing I wanted to point out: do you usually have your finger on the trigger when loading you shotgun? Not trying to be a troll. Just sometimes things go unnoticed until a 3rd party points it out!
David America I was pointing out the fact that he had his finger on the trigger. Thats not criticizing, thats pointing out he was doing something that could get himself or someone else shot. Gun safety is priority one. The more accidents there are from negligence, the more people shoot themselves and give ammo to gun grabbing liberals who can point to those kinds of situations as an example of why to disarm us.
I was watching your video this morning while researching bb loads for coyote. I noticed the photo that you have at the beginning of the video, clearly shows the shells are not using a hornady versatite wad. The photo shows a federal flitecontrol wad. Just wanting to bring it to your attention.
Just went out to the garage and pulled then disassembled a new round from a new box of hornady varmint express BB (I bought a whole case when I made the video)...I can assure you the wad is as-pictured in the video. I suspect whoever invented the flite-control wad licensed it to both federal and hornady.
Can't comment on personal situations as I've never been in one and hope I stay that way! What I do have experience with is that #4 buck kills coyotes better than BB, and 00 buck kills deer better than #4.
These actually make excellent home self defense rounds. And at 10 yards or under they could be lethal, pump a couple of rounds into the intruder/assailant, and they are either going down for the count permanently, or if they do survive they are going to wish they didn't, because they are going to go through excruciating pain during and after a surgeon spends hours digging all of those bb's out of their body & face.
You have major vocal talent. I would slow down just slightly in delivery. This was a very well thought out concise video. I'll be sure to check out your other videos. Thanks!
Checking on Hornady's site they still list these as available - I would suspect any Hornady dealer should be able to get them for you (Hornady SKU 86222).
i would like to start reloading shells with BB lead, i want to pretty much copy this load, do you know the specifics? like the charge and primer and wad they use?
Have done lots of testing in this regard...the only advantage of a longer barrel in a shotgun is increased sight radius and reduced noise . Velocity from the shorter barrels is virtually the same.
Everyone thinks I'm crazy but i swear i put this load through 4 shotguns with various chokes and it performed the best with an open bore by far. Incredibly disappointed.
Feel like this is wad-dependant - with hornady's version of the flight control wad I think they recommend you go cylinder for the tightest pattern. Stripping this particular wad off too early is detrimental to the overall pattern.
The way you based your video on empirical results is much appreciated. Also much appreciated is that your high-quality narration did not contain a single Uuuuuhhhh, AaaaaHhhhh, or DuuuuHhhhh, all of which are highly irritating utterances and plague the speech of most RUclips presenters. Good job, Sir !
Thank you!
Very well made and narrated. Thanks for spending your time and resources for the sake of great educational videos for us brothers of the shotgun. I found this information to be invaluable when it comes to making a choice regarding shotgun ammo. I will subscribe and please keep em' coming!
With your presentation and dara format being this nice i cant see why your not more popular
Guess it is not for everyone. Feel like I even took it up a couple notches this year, but sadly, very limited audience.
This is a tremendously useful video. Thanks!
Thank you!
@@Brobee223 any plan to ever start making videos again?
I love your format for testing effective spread and penetration. Keep up the Good work?
A well run test. I must point out though that I heard you mention geese. I don't know if you know or not, but under current regulations, no matter what it is plated with, it is a violation of law to hunt waterfowl with ammunition containing lead in the U.S.A, Canada, and now I believe the U.K.. That is in or out of a steel shot zone.
Excellent video. Well done Sir.
Sadly it appears you’ve stopped making videos. This was one of the best and most informative channels on YT.
Managed to make and upload one for fall of 2022, have some ideas for another this coming 2023 year! Hope it comes to pass.
This video made me subscribe. Good work, I had only recently heard of this load and you already have a test!
Love these videos, man! Great job!
Thanks!
Well executed video..very informative....Thank you
Glad it was helpful! Thanks.
I agree with what you say but just yesterday we were running coyotes with dogs and there was a coyote on top a ridge at around 55 yards and the Hornady rolled him backwards down the ridge to the bottom.
+OhioFurtakers 15 That's sweet! Glad it worked out great for you.
yes the 6 to 9 inches of penetration shown here on the 40 yard shot May be to shallow if we were talking SD against a human but plenty of good medicine for a coyote. however I would only take clean broad side shots and only if I felt I could consistently get at least around 10 to 15 pellets or more in the torso of the coyote and it seems by going on is 40 yard results it could be quite possible
@@greatbasintrapper557 6-9 inches will penetrate the heart and lungs in a human with ease.
Very well done. Helpful and informative. Many thanks. Subscribed.
Very much appreciate you subscribing! Sadly I think my gelatin testing days are all in the past, hope you find useful the approach I've been taking in more recent years in more recent episodes! Cheers, and thanks for watching.
I just purchased some S&B “buckshot” #BB load at 2 3/4 in shells. I’m curious if these would be a decent load for home defense if over penetration is a concern? Thanks so much. Keep the shotgun content coming! 🤠👍🏻
Don't know anything about home-defence, but know that I would not feel comfy taking any form of BB load out deer hunting! Thanks for watching and cheers.
If you're hypothetical defense distance is 20yd or less, BB should work well judging by the results of this test.
Very well reasoned. I'd be curious to know how much tin and antimony are in those shot before they plated it. That matters too. I remember reading a guy's forum post somewhere where he showed that one brand of plated shot was quite a bit softer than another brand's. IMO, any brand with a good product should claim not just plated or hardened, but list the shot along with plating and a brinell rating. Then you could really know what you are buying. (A cheaper alloy can be hardened by a tempering process, so the recipe is less relevant to the user than the final hardness. On the other hand, some people use shot to "sweeten" a bullet alloy, so the recipe matters to some customers too.)
Wow. Learned a little bit about what happens during with the shot inside the barrel. Interesting.
Me too! It surprised me.
I bought same shell exactly the same EXCEPT mine is 00 buck. Didn't know they had different shots for their magnum coyote shells.
Nicely done!
You want to tighten up those patterns,you'll have to go to the Browning BPS with the invector-Plus choke system (over-bored barrel) and use the super-turkey full choke by Hastings.
+MrMjsmith626 Hard BB shot might actually perform better with more open choke like mod or imp mod. turkey full are for #4,5,6 shot size.
Is that a tattoo barrell? #3 or # 5 outliner😉🤙🏻
I fired a round of this stuff from a franchi affinity with a 28" barrel and a IC choke, as per hornady's directive/recommendation, and I had 30 pellets on a square of cardboard 12"x12". Not sure if that's good, bad, or indifferent. Just my experience.
One thing about penetration- you're testing everything through a riot barrel. You're dropping off your velocity considerably. I wonder what would happen if you used a longer barrel, penetration-wise?
Recommend you chrono some shotgun loads….my experience is that after about 14 inches (I have done a bunch of chromo work with barrels ranging form 8 inches all the way up to 28 inches), shotgun loads typically don't build any more velocity.
Longer barrels don't increase velocity. They also don't increase range. Longer barrels are used for tracking moving targets. That why most ppl will use longer barrels for wing shooting. It allows for smoother tracking of your target and that it. The only increase in distance in a 28" barrel from a 20" barrel is 8". I use these rounds too and they are good. I have better patterns in my mod choke then my cylinder. Getting an IC soon to try it. I tried a full and turkey choke to see what happens and it just keeps getting worse.
How is the recoil and blast with this load? I've heard that Hornady's predator #4 buck has a hell of a blast (noise and light) that might adversely effect a defensive shooter.
Can't comment at all about suitability for defensive load, but I know I would not hunt deer with lead BB.
@@Brobee223 if you were within 10 yards you don't think that would drop a deer?
Precious and informative, thanks 🙏🏼
Thanks!
This ammomis good stuff for sure! Your problem is first using the improved cylinder versus the Remington modified choke tube. Your leakage was likely from it being improved cylinder. Try the rem modified choke tube and betting your results are better. Hornday recommends either but I have found the modified tube to be better. Not many shotgun loads a going to be a consistent 60 yard coyote killer, the best I have sued has been Hevi shot but at those prices today 50.00 plus per 10 I am more than Happy with the Hornady loads. I also like 4 Buck probably the most consistent shotgun round for coyotes out there. The issues being who makes it anymore besides Remington? Then harder to find as well. I have not seen just 100's of coyotes killed with a shotgun but well over a 1,000 coyotes as I did full time predator control out west for a period of year and from the airplanes 4 Buck due to results and cost was the round of choice. Steel shot just sucks and looses a lot of penetration past 25 yards, horrible results, the Hornady load for den calling is good stuff. Love the nickel plate better than copper for added penetration. Again try this test again with a modified choke and see if your results are not better. Happy Hunting.
you would be correct with standard wad loads going for a tighter choke however most flight control wads actually pattern tighter with more open chokes so actually the opposite. he would probably be better going for a more open cylinder choke rather than the already quite open improved cylinder choke he is using. only flight control wad I know of that actually responds better to tighter choking is Winchesters diamond cut chokes because they don't have the petals on the rear that the tighter chokes suppress opening and cause drag on the wad suppressing there maximum performance like the Versatite wads used here in this particular Hornady load have.
Would you say that Lead BB shot would be a decent home defense load of over penetration is a concern? 10yds or less ? Thanks
Many of us in the coyote hunting world would love to see this same test on the Heavy shot dead coyote in both T shot and #4 buck. Any chance of a video on that would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks..
Would love to test out some heavy-shot T and #4, but sadly with work and kids keeping me super-busy I suspect my gelatin testing days are behind me. Sorry for the bad news!
What I might do, if I can find some Heavy-Shot #4 buckshot, is a deer hunting video with them.
Please take the gel out of retirement to do the hevi shot coyote in T or BB. Love to see your take on it. Awesome videos
@@FORDEVR I can't remember which forum it was on, but a guy shot a doe broadside at 40 yds with Kent #1 tungsten goose load and he had three pellets that made a complete pass thru. Needless to say the deer dropped in her tracks.
The 49 yd shot-on-Target would be corrected by a tighter choke
Most likely you are right.
Probably be better to use a modified or full choke to get a tighter pattern at those distances but as far as penetration that's a different story. You'd think their boasting of using a higher antimony amount with the lead wouldn't allow it to deform so easy. Weird.
Love your videos. With all your testing which BB ammo do you feel is best for penetration on coyotes and what is your choice for a second Ammo as far as the one that patterns the tightest?
Thanks for your comment! For coyotes, I actually prefer #4 buckshot - something like Hornady's varmint express.
Brobee223 better penetration than BB or better pattern, or both?
Great video. exactly what I was looking for. The only thing I wanted to point out: do you usually have your finger on the trigger when loading you shotgun? Not trying to be a troll. Just sometimes things go unnoticed until a 3rd party points it out!
David America
I was pointing out the fact that he had his finger on the trigger. Thats not criticizing, thats pointing out he was doing something that could get himself or someone else shot. Gun safety is priority one. The more accidents there are from negligence, the more people shoot themselves and give ammo to gun grabbing liberals who can point to those kinds of situations as an example of why to disarm us.
Excellent
Thank you! Cheers!
Could you test this same ammo with a longer barrel and a modified choke?
Unfortunately I think my days of gelatin testing are done...:(
I was watching your video this morning while researching bb loads for coyote. I noticed the photo that you have at the beginning of the video, clearly shows the shells are not using a hornady versatite wad. The photo shows a federal flitecontrol wad. Just wanting to bring it to your attention.
Just went out to the garage and pulled then disassembled a new round from a new box of hornady varmint express BB (I bought a whole case when I made the video)...I can assure you the wad is as-pictured in the video. I suspect whoever invented the flite-control wad licensed it to both federal and hornady.
Well there’s a little fun fact.🤔
Seems like you might test this with a choke for long range use
Paul Caldwell this load has the versa tite wad and will work better with les choke restriction
I can attest to that. I’ve tried it with factory chokes, pattern master chokes and Carlson coyote chokes. It prefers Les 😜constriction.
Agree, the wad is designed to make the tightest patterns with the most open choke.
God bless you sir
You too!
Would this be effective in personal situations
Can't comment on personal situations as I've never been in one and hope I stay that way! What I do have experience with is that #4 buck kills coyotes better than BB, and 00 buck kills deer better than #4.
These actually make excellent home self defense rounds.
And at 10 yards or under they could be lethal, pump a couple of rounds into the intruder/assailant, and they are either going down for the count permanently, or if they do survive they are going to wish they didn't, because they are going to go through excruciating pain during and after a surgeon spends hours digging all of those bb's out of their body & face.
Scan you do this test with steel, black cloud, heavy metal, & blind side?
Have done this test, unfortunately did not film it. There was little difference in penetration between the three.
You have major vocal talent. I would slow down just slightly in delivery. This was a very well thought out concise video. I'll be sure to check out your other videos. Thanks!
would loading up steel bb's you use in a bb gun work any better?
Don't think so - steel is not as dense as lead, hence it does not penetrate as well. Thanks for your comment!
Imagine what that would do to a person.
Yechy! Hope to never be there.
I wonder how far it could shoot a Canadian Goose.
Celcius? Where he hell are you?
Canada
@Brobee223 on this note I'd like to thank you for using yards instead of meters. Thank you neighbor. 🇺🇲🇨🇦
can you still buy these and where can i find them if you can still buy them
Checking on Hornady's site they still list these as available - I would suspect any Hornady dealer should be able to get them for you (Hornady SKU 86222).
i would like to start reloading shells with BB lead, i want to pretty much copy this load, do you know the specifics? like the charge and primer and wad they use?
Next time use a field barrel not a security thats only good for close range
Have done lots of testing in this regard...the only advantage of a longer barrel in a shotgun is increased sight radius and reduced noise . Velocity from the shorter barrels is virtually the same.
Everyone thinks I'm crazy but i swear i put this load through 4 shotguns with various chokes and it performed the best with an open bore by far. Incredibly disappointed.
Ahhh...the frustration of trying to find a favourite shotgun load. So wish I could be done with that!
BB? Is that 4,5mm?
+VicariousReality7 You becha....each pellet diameter is. 0.177 inches or 4.5mm.
Yah sure👍
Great vid, sub'd!
Would of been better if you would of used a modified choke which is way better and way more common for hunting
Feel like this is wad-dependant - with hornady's version of the flight control wad I think they recommend you go cylinder for the tightest pattern. Stripping this particular wad off too early is detrimental to the overall pattern.
This test freaks out "Birdshot is no good for home defense" people.
Hope I never have to find out!
Use a 3" #9 tungsten turkey load with IC choke. That will stop anyone.
@@jimmoseley2983 I didnt know they made turkey loads that small in shot size.
@@Followme556 Federal also makes a 3.5" version. It will drop a turkey at 60 yds.
@@jimmoseley2983 I'll bet!
Yeah, and not fixed.
Your voice reminds me of the Dave Chappelle 911 emergency call lmao. "Hi!" ruclips.net/video/46UtFFWPPp0/видео.html
Ummmmm
Ok Mr.Rogers lol