No one ever brings up Lou Whitaker, he should have went in with Trammell. Whitaker's numbers stack up with most other second basemen in the Hall and he and Trammell retired as the all time double play duo.
@@rickallanolsen not to be an annoying corrector but I dunno where you got that info from but it's 100% not true. There are at least 20 2b in hall of fame and a bunch of them got better numbers. One of them is a career 358 batter with 2 triple crowns for God's sake lol
Steve Garvey belongs in the HOF. Zero scandals, one of the best all around players of the 70's, numerous All-Star games, accolades and awards both offensivley and defensively. How he's not in the HOF is beyond me.
Gotta disagree. Only 272 homers (only one 30 HR season), 117 OPS+ and .329 OBP all very low for a first baseman. All-Star games are just a popularity contest, and he played for LA, a major media market. His 3 All-Star appearances with the Padres were not deserved -- I know, b/c I'm a lifelong Padre fan. (FTR, his game 4 HR against the Cubs in the 84 NLCS is still a cherished memory for me, but I still don't think he belongs in the HOF.)
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r I agree. His career parallels Dwight Gooden's quite closely. Blazing start, then tailed off rather quickly but still managed to carve out good careers, if not what their beginnings indicated.
Dave Stieb. The channel Secret Base did a 4 part series on him and his career and using analytics on how good he actually was during his career. He should be on the list.
He wasn't even as good as his contemporary Campy Campaneris, who's never getting in. Plus, Concepcion had several HOF'ers in the Reds lineup whose presence guaranteed he would get great pitches to hit, but he still wasn't that good of an offensive player. Very good player, but not HOF material. Plus he played half his games on astroturf, which almost always guaranteed nice bounces on grounders.
Hearing someone outside of Atlanta say Murphey deserves to be in is nice to hear. He won back to back MVP's, but he was a much better person than player, hope Murph gets in someday, because his speech will be great. Jones deserves to get in as well. Willie Mays said he was the best defensive centerfielder he had ever seen, that says it all right there, plus he was on all those division championship teams.
There are some points to show he did his best. But you never know and I guess that's why he's not in. They said he was in on it and they can't prove he wasn't. Not definitely anyway. I'm not disagreeing I just see why he's not.
Pls look at sweet Lou career he is better then almost 90% of the second basemen who are in the hall .yes he is in as a team with tram ( the best double play combo ) .for us tiger fans he should be in .
@@anthonytropiano6650 Fair point. That's why these videos are fun. Like to hear other opinions as long as they're respectful. Whitaker was a really good player for sure.
No one talks about one old time player that is a more worthy candidate than several on your list. Bob Johnson played from 1933 - 1945. In his 13 seasons he had 100 RBIs, or more, 8 times. 7 times he did this in consecutive years, He had more lifetime RBIs in 13 years (1283) than Dale Murphy had in 18. He has a lifetime OPS of .899. His OPS+ is 139. His lifetime on base percentage is an amazing .393. He hit 288 HRs in those 13 years. He was thought of as an excellent fielder. He played for mostly bad teams and was overshadowed by other stars of the era. It has always amazed me that his name is never brought up. He deserves to be in the HOF. As Casey Stengel once said, "You could look it up".
Good Player for sure. Not sure he's better than several on this list but then again this list isn't about whether they should or shouldn't be in the Hall. That being said his numbers were good.
I guess it is a matter of opinion. He is the least talked about legitimate candidate for the HOF. His numbers are better than some already in. Read about him and I bet you will change your mind. He was extremely well regarded by his fellow players. His numbers are HOF worthy. He played for the As when Mack had sold off most of the stars and he had little around him. Makes his numbers even more remarkable to me. I did like your video.@@birdlandnetwork83
Bob Johnson had the misfortune of Playing for the Philadelphia A's in the 1930's. He is without doubt one of the best left-fielders to every play baseball and during his time put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers with a team that was miserable and never had a winning season while he played for them. Not many people even know who he is today and I doubt the modern A's even know much about him. He is one of the lost players in baseball.
Will Clark? Cons: only 2176 career hits, 284 HRS. So longevity stats are a bit low due to not extending his MLB career as long as he could have. Pros: .303 lifetime BA, outstanding combo of power and BA, led SF to the World Series, was a dynamic clutch star, one of a kind batting style, great role model, retired early to devote himself to his autistic son. Will Clark has my vote, he was singlehandedly worth the price of admission!
Also an .880 OPS and 137 OPS+ ...... and a 56.5 WAR which is higher than Hall of Famers like Harold Baines and Tony Oliva. Had Clark played 5 more seasons he'd have made the HOF.
Ummm...no, Manny Ramirez does not hold the Major League or American League record for RBI's in a season. That would be Hack Wilson and Lou Gehrig respectively.
Ummmm........thanks captain obvious. That is correct. Hack Wilson holds the record with 191. Manny isn't even in the top 10 all time for a single season. I didn't say he held the all time record for a single season. Either way the record is Hack Wilson. The way I said it definitely sounds like I meant all time but I didn't. Thanks for pointing out the possible error in the video.
@@birdlandnetwork83 if you judge the years Vada Pinson played with Frank Robinson you would think he was a sure HOFer/ He never hit the same after Robby became an O and while good he was just a average hitter.
Dick was a fan favorite in Chicago. If he had a longer career and applied himself he would have been a shoe in for the hall. Anyone who hits two inside the park homeruns in the same game, and blasts one over the 445 foot center field wall in cavernous old Sox Park belongs in the HOF.
Jim Edmonds? Cons: just under 2k hits, so longevity wasn’t achieved. Pros: 393 HRS. Arguably the best defensive CF in MLB history. See his greatest catches video clips, no CF was better…
DWIGHT EVANS, if Ozzie Smith is in the hall of fame for his defense then Evans should be too, he was a decent hitter too. One of the best right field ever , great arm!
SAMMY SOSA, is the only player with 60 Home Runs in 3 straight seasons....AVERAGED over 55 HR six straight, and had 9 straight 100 RBI seasons where he averaged j127 RBI
To hell with the writers and the veterans committee. I think there should be certain milestones that automatically gain a spot in the HOF. They are 500 home runs, 3,000 strikeouts, 300 wins, four awards such as MVP or Cy Young, 10 times picked for the All Star Game or ,300 lifetime batting average for a career of 15 years. If you hit any of those marks, you should be in, not subject to the whims of sportswriters.
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r Don't knock the Rock...the bat incident in the stands with the person assaulting his Father has a bearing on this...I would have done the same thing if someone did that to my Father
They say he was a bad teammate, sorry to the writers and loved the Devils dandruff a little too much.. 😂. But he could hit and he had that Velcro glove at first base so yeah I kinda agree
@@MIKIEEYEZ1975 lol yeah… rumors that the 86 met team was snorting the field lines before the game..😭 I mean I’ve saw that was part of the Cardinals issues with him…most of baseball used greenies back then , amphetamines just in case your young and never heard of them. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion but…
Beltran is only in his second year of eligibility on the HoF ballot. And he's already getting like 50+% of votes, he'll get in within a couple more votes.
Shoeless Joe my #1 with Rose #2 , and Clemens #3 , Bonds #4 and #5 would be Dick Allen , a very good 1st Baseman . The best American League player for two years.
Thank you for listing Shoeless Joe Jackson. He was given a lifetime ban...he is dead & since no longer alive...hasn't he served his sentence of a lifetime ban? Time to do the right thing and he belongs in the HOF...he was that good
How about Bill Buckner? His lifetime stats certainly put him in HOF territory. He is unfortunately best remembered for that dribbler that went between his bad ankles in the 1988 world series.
For all the times the Character Clause has been invoked to keep a borderline candidate out (Dick Allen, Omar Vizquel, etc.), I can't think of a single time it's been invoked to get a borderline candidate in. And there's one borderline candidate whose character should've been enough: Dale Murphy.
Agree completely on Dale Murphy…and Andruw Jones. Both were a bit inconsistent at the plate at times…but both belong in the hall. Some say Jones may be the best defensive outfielder ever. Murphy was the heart and soul of the Braves for years.
Many on this list either juiced (and got busted, see Palmeiro and Ramirez, respectively), admitted to juicing (ARod, who was suspended for it) a/o were accused of juicing based on their insane numbers late in their careers (Bonds and Clemens). Two gambled a/o took money to lose, though w/ Jackson I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. With Rose, not so much. Andruw Jones and Dick Allen still have a chance (w/ either the BBWAA a/o a future Vets Committee). Murphy was impressive in the 80s, but stalled out.
Tired of hearing about the juice it was ok when doctors gave it to them to heal quicker, it was ok when Maguire & Sosa were battling for home run record ( Sosa didn't do steroids) then all sudden its bad. Bonds was walked, intentionally walked was lucky to see a strike in AB. The percentage of the times he was on it was unbelievable . Steroids might have made it go farther but didn't have anything to do with timing or hitting the ball. Bonds needs to be in. HOF isn't full of good people so stop acting like saints
@@maddie0270 how could you prove that? Not saying he did but he opened the door to huge issues of being in position to influence the outcomes of games.
Bonds never tested positive. Writers bringing their own biases into the voting kept him out. I'll never understand why writers think these guys have to be your friends. Bonds has admitted lately he should have probably handled the press better.
I Think Tacoma Park's Steve Barber had a chance top ,make the Hall of Fame had he not injured his arm in 1966. For the rest of his career he had trouble winning games or staying healthy. Rafael Palmeiro has the HOF numbers but no chance of gong into the Hall. He is one of only seven players in MLB history to be a member of both the 500 home run club (569) and the 3,000 hit club, (3020) He also has 586 doubles
Funny enough I knew his son John Barber. Used to work with him at Kibby's restaurant a very long time ago. Good pitcher for sure. Palmeiro put up good numbers but the PEDs will always be a black mark for him.
@@birdlandnetwork83 I met Jim Gentile's son once. Was not happy when his dad was traded to KC for Norm Siebern. As it turned out neither one of them would last long in the majors.
I love the crazy Bonds stat where one season he had more total bases than official at bats thanks to 232 base on balls. 373 official at bats and got on base 376 times!
@@birdlandnetwork83 I'm more amazed at his walks records. Intentionally walked like 17 times with bases loaded. Intentionally walked with nobody on. Dude had the best eye in the history of baseball. Might get one pitch all night and crush it to go along with four walks
@@ThomasBragdon-cm2jz whether at the end of their careers or not doesn't make it right. If you're old and you can't play anymore then it is what it is. Accept it and move on . Be happy with the career you had. Nope they couldn't do that. Greed clouds judgement. EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!
Haven't seen Bowa's come up yet. Not sure I'd link him with Ozzie Smith. Smith has the highest defensive WAR ever with a 44.2 to go along with 13GG. Bowa's Defensive WAR is 19.1 which is 57th with 2GG. The comparison to Mazeroski I get but not Ozzie. Especially if we're talking defensive only. Plus this video isn't about whether or not they should be in the HOF. It's simply a list of the 10 best players NOT in the Hall, not if they deserve to be or not. Thanks for the comments.
I like Campaneris . Same lifetime batting average and homers as Maz , a great fielder , base stealer and clutch hitter in the post season . I would rather have team players like Maz , Campy , Brett Butler and Robby Thomson on my team than selfish Rickey Henderson , who attempted to steal bases when the Oakland A's were winning by 9 runs or trailing by 9 runs just to set base stealing records . That isn't baseball . That is showing up the other team !
@@birdlandnetwork83 no doubt he was. Just think in 1985 Mississippi State had him,Will Clark,Jeff Brantley and Bobby Thigpen. Lost in the last elimination game at the CWS on a walk off grand slam by Miami.
Pujols and Ichiro didn't make the list because they're not eligible for the Hall of Fame yet and when they are they're getting in. Thank you for watching.
@@birdlandnetwork83 sorry, I didn't remember hearing that your list was only players that were eligible. I just went strictly off the title. Either way, thanks for sharing.
I used to believe in the reasons to ban Pete Rose, but nowadays every major sport leagues are willing to kill to get their hands on that online gambling money. Do we really need to be so cruel to let an old man suffer while still having lead the history of baseball in total hits?
Fair points. I said this with a few other comments. The issue with Rose is he agreed to the lifetime ban. Part of the ban was he in ineligible to be elected. I don't know if he did or didn't be on the Reds. All I know is he's not in. He was great though. Plus I will say this. Actions require accountability. Sometimes cruel is what's needed for the lesson to be learned. Otherwise it keeps happening. Love the comments though. Have a great day.
@@birdlandnetwork83and not to mention that possibly Ichiro Suzuki if he played all his years in the Major Leagues i think he would have shattered Roses hit record. I agree with you about consequences totally 👍✌
If you want the PED guys in the Hall of Fame, start a PED league and you won't be as bored with the rash of most major league teams today. The PED guys took baseball to it's ultimate popularity in history, and the owners were happy raking in all the money. When Jim Brown ruled the National Football League for nine years, nobody accused him of using any PEDs or anything else. He stood miles above any of his competition; some people are like that. Bo Jackson would have been one of those had he not got hurt...he'd be the only man who was capable of making both the baseball and football Hall of Fame ! Baseball has become so boring that a few more PED users would help the game. All Ped users don't always rise to the top of their sport; you still need talent !
I honestly can't agree. Jim Brown was head and shoulders above the rest but he didn't use PEDs these guys did. It's one thing to be accused of PEDs it's another to be found guilty or linked to them. I also don't agree that the game is boring. I absolutely love baseball because it's not all video game numbers. It's about pitching, defense, move runners over, get em in. strategy is back in the game it's not just about who hits the most home rungs. Baseball is such a hard sport. Nothing is harder in sports than trying to hit a baseball. That's why you can fail 7 out of 10 times and still be considered great. They were extremely talented I agree 100% but that wasn't enough for them. They wanted more so they used PEDs. Greed clouds judgement every single time!! I do agree with you on Bo Jackson. I saw him play. He was amazing.
Confusing disqualified players with those just not voted in. By the way, Jackson played long enough to be in Hall, but was disqualified. Jackson took money, admitted it. No one said he did not play to win, but clearly took the money and admitted it. If you actually visit Cooperstown, Jackson is referenced throughout the building. Certainly not forgotten.
Not confusing disqualified with those just not voted in. The whole point of the video was to list the 10 best players not in the Hall of Fame. This isn't about why they're not in or if they should be!!! I've been to the Hall of fame four times (twice for inductions) and I know Jackson is throughout but his plaque isn't on that wall.
1 - Pete Rose 2 - Shoeless Joe Jackson 3 - Rocky Colavito 4 - Smokey Joe Wood 5 - Maury Wills 6 - Richie Allen 7 - Roy Face 8 - Bucky Walters 9 - Heinie Groh 10 - Luis Tiant 11 - Ken Boyer 12 - Tommy John 13 - Don Newcombe 14 - Larry Doyle 15 - Carl Furillo
@@birdlandnetwork83 Thanks . And i even left off Stan Hack , Babe Adams , Steve Garvey , Mickey Lolich , Dale Murphy , Ken Williams Ed Reulbach , Dick Groat , Bill Freehan , Jimmy Wynn and Jerry Grote , players i also believe should be in the hof . And there are even more .
@@birdlandnetwork83 Jerry Grote for defense , like old timer Ray Schalk . Remember , the 1960s was the 2nd dead ball era with all of the great hof pitchers .
I agree. I never actually said Dale Murphy belonged in the Hall of Fame. I actually didn't say any of the players on my list belong in the Hall of Fame. That wasn't the point of the video. It's just a list of the 10 best NOT in. Nothing more nothing less.
@@paulzumbo agreed! He didn't use PEDs. That being said these players on my list were amazing players who took it too far. Even if they hadn't used PEDs I'd take them. Some of them were generational players who allowed greed and fame to cloud their judgement and they've paid the price.
How in the hell is Dale Murphy NOT in the Hall? I didn't know he got snubbed. If you grew up in the 80's you had Dale Murphy in your top 5 best players EVERY YEAR!!! Whether you liked him or not. He was just that good, you hated playing against him and loved him playing for ya! But, ya, Dale belongs in the Hall. Even more than anyone else on this. Clemens is 2nd. A guy who's NEVER admitted using steroids. Congress couldn't say he did. Just some idiot who was trying to take the attention away from himself. That's it, no one else. No other evidence. But, banned for life. TWO 20 strikeout games. 7 Cy Youngs. 6 TIME 20 game winner. Ya, SEVEN!!! Several seasons with CRAZY ERA'S!!! The rest of the guys who've been left out because of steroids I can TOTALLY understand, BUT not Clemens. He risked going to jail for a long time by testifying in front of congress and DENTING ALL STEROUD ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIM!! But, people already didn't like him, and that was enough for them to exact a little revenge.
You should take the PED guys off your list, and Pete Rose for that matter. Everyone knows the obvious guys not in and why. Albert Belle had a dominant career, and he belongs on your list.
Thanks for the input but if you actually watched the video which I'm pretty sure you didn't, you'd know The video isn't about whether they should or shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. It's just a list of the 10 best players in my opinion that aren't in. Nothing more or nothing less. Belle was good but didn't make my list. H
You have to release a second part because many players left who deserve to be named, such as: Gary Sheffield, Kenny Lofton, Billy Wagner, Visquel, Carlos Delgado, Beltran, Abreu and many more
Absolutely agree that Lofton should be in. It's shameful that he was only on the ballot one year. He was one of the best lead off hitters in his generation, plus a superior defensive player and a fantastic base stealer. I hope that he gets a second chance.
Manny Ramirez is not in the Hall of fame because of steroid use accusations. His numbers are way more than Hall of Fame worthy. Same with several others such as Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Alex Rodriguez and Roger Clemens. Their numbers are all Hall of Fame worthy.
Nobody ever mentions a former player who had a career that was Hall of Fame worthy, or at least very close. That's "Indian" Bob Johnson. Only an amateur baseball historian knows anything about his career. He's easy to find in Baseball Reference and you can see why he deserves mentioning.
Gotta remember. This list isn't about who should be in or who shouldn't. It's just my list of the ten best players NOT in the Hall of Fame. Nothing more or less. Whether they deserve to get in or not is a video for another day.
Dick Allen, for me, gets in on the "eye test", this guy was a flat-out monster. If you watched him play for his entire career, you know what I mean. He didn't compile high enough career numbers, and he was a "controversial" figure in his time, which didn't help his cause. The BBWAA are a bunch of clowns, and if they didn't like you, that was it. If you didn't hit any of the "magic numbers" like 500 home runs, 3000 hits or a 300 career BA, you were not going to get in if they didn't like you. Dale Murphy is the poster child for a "borderline" case, his numbers are right there. For my money, I think Dick Allen is a better pure hitter than Dale Murphy, so if Allen isn't in, I don't think Murphy should be in, either.
Fair enough. Of course this list isn't about whether or not they should be in. It's just my list of the ten best players NOT in the Hall. Nothing more nothing less.
@@birdlandnetwork83 Absolutely, you're totally on solid ground. It's just that when people see a list like this, their first instinct is to do what I did and start comparing. Jim Rice, who obviously is "in", made it on his fifteenth and last attempt, which was absurd. He was a dominant hitter in his era, Dick Allen and then some, although I think he could be "pitched to" more than Allen. Goes to my point about the BBWAA.
I don't think writers should be picking who get in. How many games have they ever played in? Maybe retired coaches or someone who knows what it takes to play that level year in and year out. Not someone's who's hardest job is to spell someone's name right.
The writers have always been the ones to pick the Hall of Famers. For the most part they've gotten it right. Plus many of them have been around the game a very long time and know the game. You don't have to be a player or coach to recognize talent. The system is flawed I agree but I think they do a good job.
@birdlandnetwork83 when Willie Mays says A.Jones is the best center fielder he has ever seen but the writer's has it wrong. And Dale Murphy with two MVP plus what he did on and off the field and they still get it wrong. Some players on the list had or have off field problems these two are the best a person could be.
@@guyray1504Ok agreed!! Again....as I said before.....FOR THE MOST PART.....the writers get it right. There are far more players in or not in that they got right than players in or not in that they got wrong. Can't argue that point. Whether it's the writers, coaches, players or whoever there will be mistakes made. NO SYSTEM IS FULL PROOF!!
Even in this video people are to wrapped up in stats vs stats from different eras. I look at dominance in the players era more. You cant compare steriod and todays ball vs the late 60s to mid 70s HR totals. It was a different game. Leading the league is leading the league. 36 to 44 hrs is the same as having 60 in Bonds and McGwire era. If a guy bats .330 in 1935 and another bats .305 in 1968 . But the .305 guy is higher on the league avg that year. The .305 guy had a betrer season. Something to think about.
Stats are what anyone and everyone is measured by. 3000 hits, 500 HR, 300 wins, ERA, Batting Average etc. How dominant you were means little in the grand scheme of things. Look at Eddie Murray, Cal Ripken, Derek Jeter and guys like that. They never DOMINATED the game but they were great players who were put up great numbers throughout their careers. Baseball is different than most sports. The game has evolved but hitting a baseball has been and still is the hardest thing to do in professional sports........PERIOD!! Anyone who tells me the elite players from the 1920s can't play today isn't looking close enough. Baseball is a game of adjustments, a game predicated on motor skills not power, height, speed. Don't get me wrong all those things help but someone like Jose Altuve, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez or Ichiro prove that you don't have to be big and strong to be great at this game. Great success over long period of time defines your career. The one who dominated are there but it's not the rule. Those guys who dominated in their era are the exception. IMHO. Thanks for the comments and for watching.
I totally agree with this list and I guess in time and when all is said and done and the dust is settled put them all in the Hall of Fame. As far as Pete Rose goes you can debate it forever but the way I understand it he bet on his team to WIN. The MLB HOF is based on individual statistics and these players were incredibly great.
As for Rose, the rule did not differentiate on how you bet. You were forbidden from betting on baseball while working within MLB in any capacity, with banishment as penalty. Pretty simple; he is ineligible and should be. Don't break the main rule when you have seen that posting on the clubhouse door more than just about any other human being.
Bonds was great , I was a Griffey guy but you can’t deny he was great before his body and head swoll up. Best baseball story of the 80s had Pirates manager watching him and a skinny Bonds hit 5 consecutive hrs during batting practice in the spring and Leyland says anyone can pull 5 hrs so Bonds hit the next 5 to the opposite field and made the team out of spring training… I didn’t like him whatsoever but he 100% deserves to be in along with Clemens and Palmeiro. Today they seem to be inducting guys who’d never got a sniff 40 yrs ago and leaving out guys who did it for years. You being a Baltimore guy gotta ask if you believe the 1996 50 hr season of the sideburns was Met rx as he claimed or steroids? He was big and cut but not nearly as bulky but more than likely he did. Palmeiro cut his own throat with the finger pointing I’ve never speech then testing positive and disappearing.
Good Points. Definitely think Brady was on something, Had the one season of 50 and never came close again. Of course Davey Johnson hit like 45 for the Mets one year. That doesn't necessarily mean he was using. Love the conversation.
In hindsight the trade was one of the worst in Orioles history (the Eddie Murray trade was the worst to me) because they traded away Pete Harnisch, Steve Finley and Curt Schilling. Schilling is a borderline HOFer, Finley had a marvelous career and Harnisch was pretty good. At the time the trade made sense. Trade for proven commodity in Davis who was 29 and in his prime and was hitting 30hr/season in the cavernous Astro dome for three guys that were promising but unproven. The trade is a bad one for sure. Wish we could have that one back.
Pete Rose. But noone banned from baseball for life has ever been reinstated. And noone banned from baseball gor for life is in the Hall of Fame. Isnt even eligible for the Hall of Fame under current rules.
my boy Bill Buckner, got MORE career hits than 70% of the players in the HOF. Buckner got MORE hits than any player on that 86 Mets team. Dale Murphy like Buckner with the Cubs. played on A LOT of BAD teams in Atlanta. there numbers/Buckner, and Murphy, would have been even better on contending/BETTER teams.
Buckner was a good hitter. There's a case for him here I agree. He didn't do anything great but did get hits. He wasn't a home run hitter, he wasn't an RBI guy, He wasn't a stolen base guy, he wasn't great defensively but he did get hits and his lifetime average is good. It's not a knock on him it's just he's one of those guys that was good, and consistent but didn't do anything great. I think that's why he's forgotten alot. Thanks for the comments.
I wouldn't even say Buckner qualifies for Hall of very good. He racked up some hits but even though he played like 22 or 23 years he only ended up with 2700+. He never put up a season higher than 3.7 WAR, only had 3 seasons with a WAR over 3.0 and only 15.0 career WAR. He didn't have much in terms of power, no speed, not great defense, he was a very one dimensional player.
Well is you saw him do them first hand which I'm assuming you did because you worked there then I would agree. That said if you're just assuming he did then I can't agree.
Dave Concepcion should be in . He was the best SS of the 1970s You can't tell me that Trammell & Whit was better than Concepion & Morgan ain't no way .The Big Red Machine should have there entire infield in the Hall of Fame Cooperstown IMO Is Racist
You forgot Donnie baseball who never cheated the game with steroids and should of been MVP twice with his stats. Don’t forget what a great defensive 1st baseman he was too.
Very good player. Didn't forget him he just doesn't make my list. Whether or not he should be in the Hall of Fame is a debate for another video. That's not what this video was about anyway.
@@birdlandnetwork83 okay I understand that and really appreciate your response but there are other players that should be in the hall that you didn’t mention that should be that didn’t use steroids. Baseball like other games is supposed to be about integrity and sportsmanship. That’s why if you cheat the game and you know it for personal gain or glory then we just should throw out the rules and regulations that keeps the game with integrity and honor. Cheating is cheating and it’s not like the players don’t know the rules. It’s similar to politicians when they get involved with cheating the nation taking bribes and caught doing dishonest things that they know is unlawful. They also must pay the consequences too. Although it maybe different professions by principle rules and regulations are the same.
@@ernieramos-dm1bt I understand your point and agree that these guys don't belong in the Hall of Fame because they used PEDs and they've paid the price for that. They're not in!!! That being said players like Bonds, Clemens, Arod, Manny and the others I listed are incredible players even without the PEDs and are clearly the best players not in the Hall. The other players who did not use are to be commended but they're still not better than those guys even if those guys didn't use. Just my opinion. BTW you are 100% correct it is about integrity, honesty and sportsmanship and those guys didn't have it and again.....that's why they're not in. Great conversation.
To many white sox fans too. He quit and our team's Hope's fell. Our owner wasn't rich and sold off all his best players that helped other teams get to the world series. The Yankees and the Dodgers. Loss : Rich Gossage, Terry Forster , Bucky Dent , Brian Downing.and our manager Chuck Tanner went to Pittsburgh and won in 79
He is mine. I loved him when he came to the White Sox in 72 by signing a 4 year contract and they were contending . Players got hurt in 73 and 74 and than he just quit , retired in the beginning September 74.. Contracts were coming up in 76,and 77 and the owner was not wealthy and saw FREE AGENCY COMING IN 1976. TRADED, VETERANS AND UP AND COMING SUPERSTARS. THE FORMER WHITE SOX HELPED THE 77, 78 YANKEES, 77,78 DODGERS AND 79 PIRATES TO THE WORLD SERIES. THE PIRATES HIRED OUR MANAGER
All the PED stars need a wing in the HOF because seriously…..You can give these current guys the juice now and they will NOT put up AROD or Bonds Numbers. Those guys are special.
It's hard to get in if you played less than 15yrs. Dick Allen 's played just 11 full years and than quit. Wasn't any good after taking 1 or 2 yrs off. There are many I saw from the 1970's who played from 65-85 era who are deserving and more qualified than others on steroid .15 men can be listed, maybe 20. ROSE , T. JOHN, S. GARVEY , WITHAKER , MATTINGLY, GUIDREY , D Stieb , Bernie Williams, Jeff Kent. , K Hernsndez, of course Joe Jackson, Pete Rose. Will Clark
Thanks for the comments but if you watched the whole video I absolutely mentions PEDs. That being said this video isn't about whether they should be in the HOF or not. It's just a list of the 10 best players NOT in the Hall. Nothing more nothing less.
@@birdlandnetwork83 Great player . Better than Maris and Kaline and better than Frank Robinson after Robby's 1966 season , as Robby was just a good player from 67 to 71 .
@@birdlandnetwork83 At least all 3 of them were much better than selfish non - team player Rickey Henderson , who attempted to steal bases when the Oakland A's were 9 runs ahead or 9 runs behind just to set stolen base records . That isn't baseball , that is showing the other team up . Rickey wouldn't last a month in the NL in the 1960s . Bob Gibson , Don Drysdale , Juan Marichal , Jim Maloney , Warren Spahn , Ferguson Jenkins and Jim Bunning would see his selfish attitude and constantly knock him down. And Rickey wouldn't steal many bases against great defensive catchers like Johnny Bench , Jerry Grote , Randy Hundley , Del Crandall , Tom Haller , Clay Dalrymple and Johnny Roseboro .
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r for some reason you really don't like Rickey Henderson. Either way he was a great ballplayer and a Hall of Famer. Sorry to disagree again but Rickey is better than those guys as well. He's the greatest base stealer every, was a good outfielder and probably the greatest leadoff hitter of all time. I don't like him either but the guy was amazing. Stolen bases were a big thing back then and he was the best at it. His job was to get on and steal and he did it better than anyone.
No one ever brings up Lou Whitaker, he should have went in with Trammell. Whitaker's numbers stack up with most other second basemen in the Hall and he and Trammell retired as the all time double play duo.
I can't disagree. Good points on Whitaker.
There are six second basemen in the Hall Of Fame. Lou has better numbers than all of them.
Not only is he not in the hall of fame. His voting tallies were outrageously low. It's borderline a crime
@@rickallanolsen not to be an annoying corrector but I dunno where you got that info from but it's 100% not true. There are at least 20 2b in hall of fame and a bunch of them got better numbers. One of them is a career 358 batter with 2 triple crowns for God's sake lol
@@rickallanolsenAll xcpt Joe Morgan.
Steve Garvey belongs in the HOF. Zero scandals, one of the best all around players of the 70's, numerous All-Star games, accolades and awards both offensivley and defensively. How he's not in the HOF is beyond me.
Garvey absolutely should be in the HOF
Good Choice
Gotta disagree. Only 272 homers (only one 30 HR season), 117 OPS+ and .329 OBP all very low for a first baseman. All-Star games are just a popularity contest, and he played for LA, a major media market. His 3 All-Star appearances with the Padres were not deserved -- I know, b/c I'm a lifelong Padre fan. (FTR, his game 4 HR against the Cubs in the 84 NLCS is still a cherished memory for me, but I still don't think he belongs in the HOF.)
Garvey sure as heck doesn't belong in the U. S. Senate
@@greghoadley1815 Garvey has a lot of 200 hit seasons, more than a lot of people in the HOF
Steve Garvey Lou Whitaker, Dave Parker, Luis Tiant, Vida Blue always come to mind for me
There are good players on that list. Thanks for sharing
Vida may not have the longevity as a top pitcher to make the hof .
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r I agree. His career parallels Dwight Gooden's quite closely.
Blazing start, then tailed off rather quickly but still managed to carve out good careers, if not what their beginnings indicated.
Dave Stieb. The channel Secret Base did a 4 part series on him and his career and using analytics on how good he actually was during his career. He should be on the list.
He was good. no doubt.
How about Dave Concepcion?
He was the best SS I ever saw play.
He also invented the bounce throw to 1st.
Good hitter and could steal/run.
That's a great choice. Awesome player for sure. Thanks for watching.
Bounce was because his arm wasn't the best and if he didn't launch it high it wouldn't make it.
he only has a WAR of 40.1 267 hitter is not that good when there is very little power
He wasn't even as good as his contemporary Campy Campaneris, who's never getting in. Plus, Concepcion had several HOF'ers in the Reds lineup whose presence guaranteed he would get great pitches to hit, but he still wasn't that good of an offensive player. Very good player, but not HOF material. Plus he played half his games on astroturf, which almost always guaranteed nice bounces on grounders.
Ozzie Smith was a significantly better short stop than Davey.
Hearing someone outside of Atlanta say Murphey deserves to be in is nice to hear. He won back to back MVP's, but he was a much better person than player, hope Murph gets in someday, because his speech will be great. Jones deserves to get in as well. Willie Mays said he was the best defensive centerfielder he had ever seen, that says it all right there, plus he was on all those division championship teams.
Thank you for the comments. Dale Murphy was awesome. He is so underrated. He was great!!
Even if i hadn't seen A. Jones bat i think his outfield play is good enough to get into the HOF.
Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in the hall of fame because if he was trying to lose the game he was doing a bad job he hit over .400 in that series
There are some points to show he did his best. But you never know and I guess that's why he's not in. They said he was in on it and they can't prove he wasn't. Not definitely anyway. I'm not disagreeing I just see why he's not.
Pls look at sweet Lou career he is better then almost 90% of the second basemen who are in the hall .yes he is in as a team with tram ( the best double play combo ) .for us tiger fans he should be in .
@@anthonytropiano6650 Fair point. That's why these videos are fun. Like to hear other opinions as long as they're respectful. Whitaker was a really good player for sure.
Look at his numbers in the games they lost. The ones they were dumping. He didn't hit .400 in those. Or even .200, if I'm remembering right
besides Shoeless Joe the most obvious choice is Pete Rose!
No one talks about one old time player that is a more worthy candidate than several on your list. Bob Johnson played from 1933 - 1945. In his 13 seasons he had 100 RBIs, or more, 8 times. 7 times he did this in consecutive years, He had more lifetime RBIs in 13 years (1283) than Dale Murphy had in 18. He has a lifetime OPS of .899. His OPS+ is 139. His lifetime on base percentage is an amazing .393. He hit 288 HRs in those 13 years. He was thought of as an excellent fielder. He played for mostly bad teams and was overshadowed by other stars of the era. It has always amazed me that his name is never brought up. He deserves to be in the HOF. As Casey Stengel once said, "You could look it up".
Good Player for sure. Not sure he's better than several on this list but then again this list isn't about whether they should or shouldn't be in the Hall. That being said his numbers were good.
I guess it is a matter of opinion. He is the least talked about legitimate candidate for the HOF. His numbers are better than some already in. Read about him and I bet you will change your mind. He was extremely well regarded by his fellow players. His numbers are HOF worthy. He played for the As when Mack had sold off most of the stars and he had little around him. Makes his numbers even more remarkable to me. I did like your video.@@birdlandnetwork83
Ok
@@birdlandnetwork83 Dale Murphy played catcher his first few years with the Braves as did Craig Biggio for Houston.
Bob Johnson had the misfortune of Playing for the Philadelphia A's in the 1930's. He is without doubt one of the best left-fielders to every play baseball and during his time put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers with a team that was miserable and never had a winning season while he played for them. Not many people even know who he is today and I doubt the modern A's even know much about him. He is one of the lost players in baseball.
Will Clark?
Cons: only 2176 career hits, 284 HRS. So longevity stats are a bit low due to not extending his MLB career as long as he could have.
Pros: .303 lifetime BA, outstanding combo of power and BA, led SF to the World Series, was a dynamic clutch star, one of a kind batting style, great role model, retired early to devote himself to his autistic son.
Will Clark has my vote, he was singlehandedly worth the price of admission!
He was pretty awesome. Love Will Clark.
The thrill was exactly what you wanted a baseball hero to be.
And he only called teammates the n-word once in a while. Not every day.
Also an .880 OPS and 137 OPS+ ...... and a 56.5 WAR which is higher than Hall of Famers like Harold Baines and Tony Oliva. Had Clark played 5 more seasons he'd have made the HOF.
Maybe a HOF is needed for the BBWA turndown because they may have had an issue with a player not related to his performance, rather his personality.
Ummm...no, Manny Ramirez does not hold the Major League or American League record for RBI's in a season. That would be Hack Wilson and Lou Gehrig respectively.
Ummmm........thanks captain obvious. That is correct. Hack Wilson holds the record with 191. Manny isn't even in the top 10 all time for a single season. I didn't say he held the all time record for a single season. Either way the record is Hack Wilson. The way I said it definitely sounds like I meant all time but I didn't. Thanks for pointing out the possible error in the video.
Dick Allen and Dale Murphy but no Dwight Evans? The most HRs and Extra Base hits of the 1980s.
That's a good one.
Dewey
@@thomasblackwell462and Chewy! Chewbacca😂
Evans was the best right fielder from about 1975-1988.
As long as crybaby Darrel Evans and his sissy . 248 lifetime batting average never makes it in the hof .
The PED issue will be with us for a while longer. Vada Pinson, Tommy John, Dave Parker, Lou Whitaker, Mark Grace......jus' sayin'
Yes it will be with us forever. Thanks for the comments. Good list.
@@birdlandnetwork83 if you judge the years Vada Pinson played with Frank Robinson you would think he was a sure HOFer/ He never hit the same after Robby became an O and while good he was just a average hitter.
David Concepcion-#13 Big Red Machine better hitter than Ozzie in regular AND postseason.
Smooth with the leather and great base runner.
good points.
Dick Allen - love the man. Him smoking a cigarette for a baseball card. Love it!
LOL
Dick was a fan favorite in Chicago. If he had a longer career and applied himself he would have been a shoe in for the hall. Anyone who hits two inside the park homeruns in the same game, and blasts one over the 445 foot center field wall in cavernous old Sox Park belongs in the HOF.
@@fratzogmoparslol don't forget Greg Luzinskies 2 rooftop shots at old Comisky
@@Mr-Angelo0U812 Luzinski had more than that, and Kittle had 7 rooftop shots.
Re: artificial turf: "If a horse can't eat it, I don't want to play on it.
Ron Santo was at the top of this list for many years, but that’s been resolved.
Fair enough
Andruw Jones, Lou Whitaker, Kenny Lofton
Good picks
Jim Edmonds?
Cons: just under 2k hits, so longevity wasn’t achieved.
Pros: 393 HRS. Arguably the best defensive CF in MLB history. See his greatest catches video clips, no CF was better…
He was very good for sure.
Lofton deserves it. More than the All-Star games (6), gold gloves (4), and stolen base titles (5), he was the best leadoff hitter of the 90s.
Really good player for sure. Didn't make my list though. Awesome leadoff hitter no doubt.
DWIGHT EVANS, if Ozzie Smith is in the hall of fame for his defense then Evans should be too, he was a decent hitter too. One of the best right field ever , great arm!
Agree with this choice BIG Time!!
He's a good one.
Cannon
Elite hitter I think
Here is the entire list of eligible, non-steroid MLB players with 2 MVPs not in the HOF..... Dale Murphy.
Good one
I concur.
@@jimmydabakeri concur with your concurness😂
Roger Maris too.
Maris isn’t never getting in
SAMMY SOSA, is the only player with 60 Home Runs in 3 straight seasons....AVERAGED over 55 HR six straight, and had 9 straight 100 RBI seasons where he averaged j127 RBI
Good player. PED's, corked bats etc don't help his cause.
You mean the only player with 60 Homers 3 times. He chipped in a 50 in between.
To hell with the writers and the veterans committee. I think there should be certain milestones that automatically gain a spot in the HOF. They are 500 home runs, 3,000 strikeouts, 300 wins, four awards such as MVP or Cy Young, 10 times picked for the All Star Game or ,300 lifetime batting average for a career of 15 years. If you hit any of those marks, you should be in, not subject to the whims of sportswriters.
Thanks for the comments.
Lefty O'Doul .
C.mon. Where's Roger Maris?
Maris had three great years and the rest were ok, nothing special. Doesn't make my list.
@@birdlandnetwork83 Rocky Colavito .
Dick Allan was not a good fielder
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r Don't knock the Rock...the bat incident in the stands with the person assaulting his Father has a bearing on this...I would have done the same thing if someone did that to my Father
Has no one mentioned Keith Hernandez? Far and away, the greatest defensive 1st baseman in the last 50 years.
Great defensive 1st baseman. His name has come up
And a great actor playing himself on "Seinfeld".
They say he was a bad teammate, sorry to the writers and loved the Devils dandruff a little too much.. 😂. But he could hit and he had that Velcro glove at first base so yeah I kinda agree
@@jaynash2645” Devil’s Dsndruf as in Blow? 😂😂😂😂
@@MIKIEEYEZ1975 lol yeah… rumors that the 86 met team was snorting the field lines before the game..😭 I mean I’ve saw that was part of the Cardinals issues with him…most of baseball used greenies back then , amphetamines just in case your young and never heard of them. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion but…
Dale Murphy , Cobra , Keith Hernandez , Curt Schilling, Billy Wagner , Beltran , D Allen
Some good ones on there. I think Wagner will get in next year.
Beltran is only in his second year of eligibility on the HoF ballot. And he's already getting like 50+% of votes, he'll get in within a couple more votes.
@@unkledoda420 strong possibility for sure.
Curt Shilling for sure
Roger Clemens?
Shoeless Joe my #1 with Rose #2 , and Clemens #3 , Bonds #4 and #5 would be Dick Allen , a very good 1st Baseman . The best American League player for two years.
Good list.
How about JOHN FRANCO who finished with over 400 saves, the most by a lefthanded closer in MLB history?? HE DESERVES TO BE IN THE HALL OF FAME.
Maybe so. I can't put him on my list though.
I agree with your list wholeheartedly. You did quite a bit of homework. There were so many great ballplayers to choose from.
Thank you for the kind words. Hope you come back and watch more. Have a great day
Thank you for listing Shoeless Joe Jackson. He was given a lifetime ban...he is dead & since no longer alive...hasn't he served his sentence of a lifetime ban? Time to do the right thing and he belongs in the HOF...he was that good
He definitely was that good. Thanks for watching.
Ichiro would have broke every record in the book if he had played those first years in the US.
He was amazing no doubt.
Dick Allen while playing left field with the Dodgers threw out two runners at the plate in The Same Inning!
Cool.
How about Bill Buckner? His lifetime stats certainly put him in HOF territory. He is unfortunately best remembered for that dribbler that went between his bad ankles in the 1988 world series.
There have been several comments on him.
That would be 86 World Series
It was 1986 the Redsox lost the world series to the Mets
@@mifan67karaokeandsingalong15 please, don’t remind me
1986 W.S. Douche!! 😂😂😂😂
For all the times the Character Clause has been invoked to keep a borderline candidate out (Dick Allen, Omar Vizquel, etc.), I can't think of a single time it's been invoked to get a borderline candidate in. And there's one borderline candidate whose character should've been enough: Dale Murphy.
Really good guy. No doubt.
Agree completely on Dale Murphy…and Andruw Jones. Both were a bit inconsistent at the plate at times…but both belong in the hall. Some say Jones may be the best defensive outfielder ever. Murphy was the heart and soul of the Braves for years.
Thanks for watching.
Many on this list either juiced (and got busted, see Palmeiro and Ramirez, respectively), admitted to juicing (ARod, who was suspended for it) a/o were accused of juicing based on their insane numbers late in their careers (Bonds and Clemens). Two gambled a/o took money to lose, though w/ Jackson I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. With Rose, not so much. Andruw Jones and Dick Allen still have a chance (w/ either the BBWAA a/o a future Vets Committee). Murphy was impressive in the 80s, but stalled out.
All very good point.s
Tired of hearing about the juice it was ok when doctors gave it to them to heal quicker, it was ok when Maguire & Sosa were battling for home run record ( Sosa didn't do steroids) then all sudden its bad. Bonds was walked, intentionally walked was lucky to see a strike in AB. The percentage of the times he was on it was unbelievable . Steroids might have made it go farther but didn't have anything to do with timing or hitting the ball. Bonds needs to be in. HOF isn't full of good people so stop acting like saints
Rose never bet against his team
@@maddie0270 how could you prove that? Not saying he did but he opened the door to huge issues of being in position to influence the outcomes of games.
Bonds never tested positive. Writers bringing their own biases into the voting kept him out. I'll never understand why writers think these guys have to be your friends. Bonds has admitted lately he should have probably handled the press better.
No H all for drug abusers and cheaters. Absolutely. Forever.
I agree! The sad part is many of them were darn good without PEDs.
I Think Tacoma Park's Steve Barber had a chance top ,make the Hall of Fame had he not injured his arm in 1966. For the rest of his career he had trouble winning games or staying healthy.
Rafael Palmeiro has the HOF numbers but no chance of gong into the Hall. He is one of only seven players in MLB history to be a member of both the 500 home run club (569) and the 3,000 hit club, (3020) He also has 586 doubles
Funny enough I knew his son John Barber. Used to work with him at Kibby's restaurant a very long time ago. Good pitcher for sure. Palmeiro put up good numbers but the PEDs will always be a black mark for him.
@@birdlandnetwork83 I met Jim Gentile's son once. Was not happy when his dad was traded to KC for Norm Siebern. As it turned out neither one of them would last long in the majors.
I love the crazy Bonds stat where one season he had more total bases than official at bats thanks to 232 base on balls. 373 official at bats and got on base 376 times!
There was a time when everyone was scared to pitch to him.
@@birdlandnetwork83 I'm more amazed at his walks records. Intentionally walked like 17 times with bases loaded. Intentionally walked with nobody on. Dude had the best eye in the history of baseball. Might get one pitch all night and crush it to go along with four walks
What year was that
Crazy thing is he only hit 11 grand slams
@@charleynewman4783 2004.
Before Manny Ramirez imploded, he was the odds-on favorite to break Lou Gehrig's Grand Slam record-- which A-Rod eventually broke.
He was on his way no doubt. He's still third though. A Rod, Gehrig, Manny and Murray
@@birdlandnetwork83Robin Ventura hit a lot also
Manny should be in the greatest 2 strike hitter in baseball. Roger also if they did ped it was at the end of career because of age and injuries
@@ThomasBragdon-cm2jz whether at the end of their careers or not doesn't make it right. If you're old and you can't play anymore then it is what it is. Accept it and move on . Be happy with the career you had. Nope they couldn't do that. Greed clouds judgement. EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!
Grand slams are kinda of overrated tbh
Got one for you...TED KLUSZEWSKI!...Between 1953-1957, he was BEST Total hitter in the National League!
FORGET DALE MURPHY!
Good player for sure. At least for a four year stretch.
One other Black Sox, Eddie Cicotte was probably on his way to the hall.
Good choice.
What about David Concepción? I think he belongs in the Hall of fame...
Not sure. Didn't make my list.
Steve garvey
He's come up alot.
Alex Rodriguez had 30 Homers FIFTEEN times, not 14. Tied with Henry Aaron for the most.
Yep. You're right. I miscounted.
Larry Bowa. If Mazeroski and Ozzie Smith are in the Hall of Fame based on defense, then he should be also
Haven't seen Bowa's come up yet. Not sure I'd link him with Ozzie Smith. Smith has the highest defensive WAR ever with a 44.2 to go along with 13GG. Bowa's Defensive WAR is 19.1 which is 57th with 2GG. The comparison to Mazeroski I get but not Ozzie. Especially if we're talking defensive only. Plus this video isn't about whether or not they should be in the HOF. It's simply a list of the 10 best players NOT in the Hall, not if they deserve to be or not. Thanks for the comments.
I like Campaneris .
Same lifetime batting average and homers as Maz , a great fielder , base stealer and clutch hitter in the post season .
I would rather have team players like Maz , Campy , Brett Butler and Robby Thomson on my team than selfish Rickey Henderson , who attempted to steal bases when the Oakland A's were winning by 9 runs or trailing by 9 runs just to set base stealing records .
That isn't baseball .
That is showing up the other team !
Murphy was better than Harold Blaine’s and Mauer
Fair point.
Palmeiro dug his own grave after testifying in front of congress saying he never did roids and then almost immediately testing positive.
Still a heck of a ballplayer. Not in and shouldn't be in but deserves to be on this list.
@@birdlandnetwork83 no doubt he was. Just think in 1985 Mississippi State had him,Will Clark,Jeff Brantley and Bobby Thigpen. Lost in the last elimination game at the CWS on a walk off grand slam by Miami.
Murph was one of the best CF, also......He should be in HOF!!!!
Whether or not he should be in I won't argue. I just know he was pretty awesome.
Decent list, I would add Albert Pujols and Ichiro.
Pujols and Ichiro didn't make the list because they're not eligible for the Hall of Fame yet and when they are they're getting in. Thank you for watching.
@@birdlandnetwork83 sorry, I didn't remember hearing that your list was only players that were eligible. I just went strictly off the title. Either way, thanks for sharing.
Eight Men Out came out in 1988 which means there were still people who could have seen that movie who saw Shoeless Joe Jackson play in person.
There's a possibility for sure.
Did anybody mention Mark McGwire? Incredible numbers.
Not many have mentioned him. Some have
@@birdlandnetwork83 Sosa and McGwire = The best home run race of all time. Fun to be a baseball fan that year
Incredible STEROIDS!! 😂😂😂😂💩💩💩💩😎
I respect some of your list
Thank you?
I understand those 1919 white Sox players who agreed to throw that world series were stiffed concerning the money they were promised
Maybe. Who knows
@@birdlandnetwork83 that's what I heard 😐
@@charlescline8943I didn't realize you were there. LOL!! I'm kidding.
I used to believe in the reasons to ban Pete Rose, but nowadays every major sport leagues are willing to kill to get their hands on that online gambling money. Do we really need to be so cruel to let an old man suffer while still having lead the history of baseball in total hits?
Fair points. I said this with a few other comments. The issue with Rose is he agreed to the lifetime ban. Part of the ban was he in ineligible to be elected. I don't know if he did or didn't be on the Reds. All I know is he's not in. He was great though. Plus I will say this. Actions require accountability. Sometimes cruel is what's needed for the lesson to be learned. Otherwise it keeps happening. Love the comments though. Have a great day.
@@birdlandnetwork83and not to mention that possibly Ichiro Suzuki if he played all his years in the Major Leagues i think he would have shattered Roses hit record. I agree with you about consequences totally 👍✌
Great video. ⚾💯
Thank you very much.
If you want the PED guys in the Hall of Fame, start a PED league and you won't be as bored with the rash of most major league teams today. The PED guys took baseball to it's ultimate popularity in history, and the owners were happy raking in all the money. When Jim Brown ruled the National Football League for nine years, nobody accused him of using any PEDs or anything else. He stood miles above any of his competition; some people are like that. Bo Jackson would have been one of those had he not got hurt...he'd be the only man who was capable of making both the baseball and football Hall of Fame ! Baseball has become so boring that a few more PED users would help the game. All Ped users don't always rise to the top of their sport; you still need talent !
I honestly can't agree. Jim Brown was head and shoulders above the rest but he didn't use PEDs these guys did. It's one thing to be accused of PEDs it's another to be found guilty or linked to them. I also don't agree that the game is boring. I absolutely love baseball because it's not all video game numbers. It's about pitching, defense, move runners over, get em in. strategy is back in the game it's not just about who hits the most home rungs. Baseball is such a hard sport. Nothing is harder in sports than trying to hit a baseball. That's why you can fail 7 out of 10 times and still be considered great. They were extremely talented I agree 100% but that wasn't enough for them. They wanted more so they used PEDs. Greed clouds judgement every single time!! I do agree with you on Bo Jackson. I saw him play. He was amazing.
Confusing disqualified players with those just not voted in. By the way, Jackson played long enough to be in Hall, but was disqualified. Jackson took money, admitted it. No one said he did not play to win, but clearly took the money and admitted it. If you actually visit Cooperstown, Jackson is referenced throughout the building. Certainly not forgotten.
Not confusing disqualified with those just not voted in. The whole point of the video was to list the 10 best players not in the Hall of Fame. This isn't about why they're not in or if they should be!!! I've been to the Hall of fame four times (twice for inductions) and I know Jackson is throughout but his plaque isn't on that wall.
@@birdlandnetwork83that's cool you went to 2 inductions. Which players?
Jackson did not take the money.read the facts.
@@Mr-Angelo0U812Well I'm an Orioles fan so I was there for Eddie Murray and Cal Ripken
1 - Pete Rose
2 - Shoeless Joe Jackson
3 - Rocky Colavito
4 - Smokey Joe Wood
5 - Maury Wills
6 - Richie Allen
7 - Roy Face
8 - Bucky Walters
9 - Heinie Groh
10 - Luis Tiant
11 - Ken Boyer
12 - Tommy John
13 - Don Newcombe
14 - Larry Doyle
15 - Carl Furillo
Good list
@@birdlandnetwork83 Thanks .
And i even left off Stan Hack , Babe Adams , Steve Garvey , Mickey Lolich , Dale Murphy , Ken Williams Ed Reulbach , Dick Groat , Bill Freehan , Jimmy Wynn and Jerry Grote , players i also believe should be in the hof .
And there are even more .
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r remember though it's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Everybody. Great players get in only.
@@birdlandnetwork83 Jerry Grote for defense , like old timer Ray Schalk .
Remember , the 1960s was the 2nd dead ball era with all of the great hof pitchers .
Bill Mazo should not be in
barry pete should be in steve gravey fred lynn dave concepcion dale murphey were great players and should be in
Can't let everyone in. It's the Hall of Fame for a reason. Not the Hall of Very Good
Palmeiro testified in front of Congress that he didn't juice. Right or wrong, that sealed his HOF fate.
I agree.
Joe Carter. 1445 rbi
Harold Baines 1624 rbi
Bert Blyleven 3701 k’s
Lou Whitaker 2470 r+rbi
Dick Allen
Good list
Top 3 for me are Bonds, Clemens and ARod. Ask me to make the best starting 9 since ww2, I put all 3 on it.
I would agree.
Dave Parker...nuff said!
Good Player.
Rusty Staub belongs in the HOF. Prolific hitter.
Good hitter.
A lot of players have similar totals to Dale Murphy and you're not in the Hall of Fame
I agree. I never actually said Dale Murphy belonged in the Hall of Fame. I actually didn't say any of the players on my list belong in the Hall of Fame. That wasn't the point of the video. It's just a list of the 10 best NOT in. Nothing more nothing less.
No Don Mattingly?
Nope. Not on my list. These 10 are better. In my humble opinion. Mattingly was awesome but just misses for me.
@@birdlandnetwork83he never cheated
@@paulzumbo agreed! He didn't use PEDs. That being said these players on my list were amazing players who took it too far. Even if they hadn't used PEDs I'd take them. Some of them were generational players who allowed greed and fame to cloud their judgement and they've paid the price.
How in the hell is Dale Murphy NOT in the Hall? I didn't know he got snubbed. If you grew up in the 80's you had Dale Murphy in your top 5 best players EVERY YEAR!!! Whether you liked him or not. He was just that good, you hated playing against him and loved him playing for ya! But, ya, Dale belongs in the Hall. Even more than anyone else on this. Clemens is 2nd. A guy who's NEVER admitted using steroids. Congress couldn't say he did. Just some idiot who was trying to take the attention away from himself. That's it, no one else. No other evidence. But, banned for life. TWO 20 strikeout games. 7 Cy Youngs. 6 TIME 20 game winner. Ya, SEVEN!!! Several seasons with CRAZY ERA'S!!! The rest of the guys who've been left out because of steroids I can TOTALLY understand, BUT not Clemens. He risked going to jail for a long time by testifying in front of congress and DENTING ALL STEROUD ALLEGATIONS AGAINST HIM!! But, people already didn't like him, and that was enough for them to exact a little revenge.
Murphy isn't in but he is an Awesome player and person. Clemens.....I won't get into it with you.
What about Curt Schilling?
His name has come up alot in the comments
You should take the PED guys off your list, and Pete Rose for that matter. Everyone knows the obvious guys not in and why. Albert Belle had a dominant career, and he belongs on your list.
Thanks for the input but if you actually watched the video which I'm pretty sure you didn't, you'd know The video isn't about whether they should or shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. It's just a list of the 10 best players in my opinion that aren't in. Nothing more or nothing less. Belle was good but didn't make my list. H
You have to release a second part because many players left who deserve to be named, such as: Gary Sheffield, Kenny Lofton, Billy Wagner, Visquel, Carlos Delgado, Beltran, Abreu and many more
Good list of players.
Absolutely agree that Lofton should be in. It's shameful that he was only on the ballot one year. He was one of the best lead off hitters in his generation, plus a superior defensive player and a fantastic base stealer. I hope that he gets a second chance.
Ken Caminiti
Dick Allen also has a 156 OPS+ which is the 21st best in history. I'm not counting the Negro League guys.
Good ballplayer no doubt.
Manny Ramirez is not in the Hall of fame because of steroid use accusations. His numbers are way more than Hall of Fame worthy. Same with several others such as Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mark McGwire, Rafael Palmeiro, Alex Rodriguez and Roger Clemens. Their numbers are all Hall of Fame worthy.
Andruw Jones was an all-time great defensively as an outfielder. If Bill Mazeroski can get in on defense alone, then why not Andruw Jones?
Nobody ever mentions a former player who had a career that was Hall of Fame worthy, or at least very close. That's "Indian" Bob Johnson. Only an amateur baseball historian knows anything about his career. He's easy to find in Baseball Reference and you can see why he deserves mentioning.
Others who are worthy include Lou Whitaker and Albert Belle.
Gotta remember. This list isn't about who should be in or who shouldn't. It's just my list of the ten best players NOT in the Hall of Fame. Nothing more or less. Whether they deserve to get in or not is a video for another day.
Add Steve Garvey and Kirk Shilling.....11+12
good ones
Yes on Andruw Jones! Harold Baines was a professional hitter. But that's all he was.
Agreed
great job
Thanks Pete!
The Hall of Fame doesn't take in consideration on how a player affected the game outside the stats.
Fair point
Dick Allen, for me, gets in on the "eye test", this guy was a flat-out monster. If you watched him play for his entire career, you know what I mean. He didn't compile high enough career numbers, and he was a "controversial" figure in his time, which didn't help his cause. The BBWAA are a bunch of clowns, and if they didn't like you, that was it. If you didn't hit any of the "magic numbers" like 500 home runs, 3000 hits or a 300 career BA, you were not going to get in if they didn't like you. Dale Murphy is the poster child for a "borderline" case, his numbers are right there. For my money, I think Dick Allen is a better pure hitter than Dale Murphy, so if Allen isn't in, I don't think Murphy should be in, either.
Fair enough. Of course this list isn't about whether or not they should be in. It's just my list of the ten best players NOT in the Hall. Nothing more nothing less.
@@birdlandnetwork83 Absolutely, you're totally on solid ground. It's just that when people see a list like this, their first instinct is to do what I did and start comparing.
Jim Rice, who obviously is "in", made it on his fifteenth and last attempt, which was absurd. He was a dominant hitter in his era, Dick Allen and then some, although I think he could be "pitched to" more than Allen.
Goes to my point about the BBWAA.
I don't think writers should be picking who get in. How many games have they ever played in? Maybe retired coaches or someone who knows what it takes to play that level year in and year out. Not someone's who's hardest job is to spell someone's name right.
The writers have always been the ones to pick the Hall of Famers. For the most part they've gotten it right. Plus many of them have been around the game a very long time and know the game. You don't have to be a player or coach to recognize talent. The system is flawed I agree but I think they do a good job.
@birdlandnetwork83 when Willie Mays says A.Jones is the best center fielder he has ever seen but the writer's has it wrong. And Dale Murphy with two MVP plus what he did on and off the field and they still get it wrong. Some players on the list had or have off field problems these two are the best a person could be.
@@guyray1504Ok agreed!! Again....as I said before.....FOR THE MOST PART.....the writers get it right. There are far more players in or not in that they got right than players in or not in that they got wrong. Can't argue that point. Whether it's the writers, coaches, players or whoever there will be mistakes made. NO SYSTEM IS FULL PROOF!!
Lou Whitaker. He didn’t play nice with reporters and it cost him. He should have been first eligible in. Sweet Lou
Good Player for sure.
Even in this video people are to wrapped up in stats vs stats from different eras. I look at dominance in the players era more. You cant compare steriod and todays ball vs the late 60s to mid 70s HR totals. It was a different game. Leading the league is leading the league. 36 to 44 hrs is the same as having 60 in Bonds and McGwire era. If a guy bats .330 in 1935 and another bats .305 in 1968 . But the .305 guy is higher on the league avg that year. The .305 guy had a betrer season. Something to think about.
Stats are what anyone and everyone is measured by. 3000 hits, 500 HR, 300 wins, ERA, Batting Average etc. How dominant you were means little in the grand scheme of things. Look at Eddie Murray, Cal Ripken, Derek Jeter and guys like that. They never DOMINATED the game but they were great players who were put up great numbers throughout their careers. Baseball is different than most sports. The game has evolved but hitting a baseball has been and still is the hardest thing to do in professional sports........PERIOD!! Anyone who tells me the elite players from the 1920s can't play today isn't looking close enough. Baseball is a game of adjustments, a game predicated on motor skills not power, height, speed. Don't get me wrong all those things help but someone like Jose Altuve, Greg Maddux, Pedro Martinez or Ichiro prove that you don't have to be big and strong to be great at this game. Great success over long period of time defines your career. The one who dominated are there but it's not the rule. Those guys who dominated in their era are the exception. IMHO. Thanks for the comments and for watching.
I totally agree with this list and I guess in time and when all is said and done and the dust is settled put them all in the Hall of Fame. As far as Pete Rose goes you can debate it forever but the way I understand it he bet on his team to WIN.
The MLB HOF is based on individual statistics and these players were incredibly great.
Thanks for the comments. Great thoughts
As for Rose, the rule did not differentiate on how you bet. You were forbidden from betting on baseball while working within MLB in any capacity, with banishment as penalty. Pretty simple; he is ineligible and should be. Don't break the main rule when you have seen that posting on the clubhouse door more than just about any other human being.
Pete Rose can go in when Bart Giamatti gets up out of his grave that Rose put him in to award him the plaque.
Bonds was great , I was a Griffey guy but you can’t deny he was great before his body and head swoll up. Best baseball story of the 80s had Pirates manager watching him and a skinny Bonds hit 5 consecutive hrs during batting practice in the spring and Leyland says anyone can pull 5 hrs so Bonds hit the next 5 to the opposite field and made the team out of spring training… I didn’t like him whatsoever but he 100% deserves to be in along with Clemens and Palmeiro. Today they seem to be inducting guys who’d never got a sniff 40 yrs ago and leaving out guys who did it for years. You being a Baltimore guy gotta ask if you believe the 1996 50 hr season of the sideburns was Met rx as he claimed or steroids? He was big and cut but not nearly as bulky but more than likely he did. Palmeiro cut his own throat with the finger pointing I’ve never speech then testing positive and disappearing.
Good Points. Definitely think Brady was on something, Had the one season of 50 and never came close again. Of course Davey Johnson hit like 45 for the Mets one year. That doesn't necessarily mean he was using. Love the conversation.
As you are an 0s fan what thoughts on the G.Davis trade?
In hindsight the trade was one of the worst in Orioles history (the Eddie Murray trade was the worst to me) because they traded away Pete Harnisch, Steve Finley and Curt Schilling. Schilling is a borderline HOFer, Finley had a marvelous career and Harnisch was pretty good. At the time the trade made sense. Trade for proven commodity in Davis who was 29 and in his prime and was hitting 30hr/season in the cavernous Astro dome for three guys that were promising but unproven. The trade is a bad one for sure. Wish we could have that one back.
Pete Rose.
But noone banned from baseball for life has ever been reinstated.
And noone banned from baseball gor for life is in the Hall of Fame.
Isnt even eligible for the Hall of Fame under current rules.
I agree!
How about Joey Albert Belle for a 10-year career almost 400 home runs in 10 years
Scary player for a decade for sure.
How about the ten lousiest players who ARE in the HOF?
That's a good one. I'm going to look into that one.
my boy Bill Buckner, got MORE career hits than 70% of the players in the HOF. Buckner got MORE hits than any player on that 86 Mets team. Dale Murphy like Buckner with the Cubs. played on A LOT of BAD teams in Atlanta. there numbers/Buckner, and Murphy, would have been even better on contending/BETTER teams.
Buckner got MORE hits in the 70's and 80's. than ALL other players doing that time...except, Pete Rose.
Buckner was a good hitter. There's a case for him here I agree. He didn't do anything great but did get hits. He wasn't a home run hitter, he wasn't an RBI guy, He wasn't a stolen base guy, he wasn't great defensively but he did get hits and his lifetime average is good. It's not a knock on him it's just he's one of those guys that was good, and consistent but didn't do anything great. I think that's why he's forgotten alot. Thanks for the comments.
Did Buckner have more hits than Rod Carew? Maybe, but I can't believe that.
@@Dominos-el7qr No. Buckner had over 1700 hits. Carew was over 3000 for their careers.
I wouldn't even say Buckner qualifies for Hall of very good. He racked up some hits but even though he played like 22 or 23 years he only ended up with 2700+. He never put up a season higher than 3.7 WAR, only had 3 seasons with a WAR over 3.0 and only 15.0 career WAR. He didn't have much in terms of power, no speed, not great defense, he was a very one dimensional player.
If Piazza is in, then EVERY 'roid user who is worthy should be in. I worked at Dodger stadium during his time there. He absolutely did steriods .
Well is you saw him do them first hand which I'm assuming you did because you worked there then I would agree. That said if you're just assuming he did then I can't agree.
3 from the same country… Juan Gonzalez, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado
Good ones. Surprisingly I think you're the first person to mention Beltran in the comments.
The HOF used to be special but the writers fragile ego's have ruined it .
👍
Right .
Baseball belongs to the fans , so let us real baseball fans vote for the hof .
My first vote is for Pete Rose !
It’s been said that two thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third was covered by Andrew Jones.
LOL!! Good one
What about Steve Garvey
Really good player. Not on my list though.
Dave Concepcion should be in . He was the best SS of the 1970s You can't tell me that Trammell & Whit was better than Concepion & Morgan ain't no way .The Big Red Machine should have there entire infield in the Hall of Fame Cooperstown IMO Is Racist
Good Pick in Concepcion.
Everything with you people is racism. Must be a horrible existence
You forgot Donnie baseball who never cheated the game with steroids and should of been MVP twice with his stats. Don’t forget what a great defensive 1st baseman he was too.
Very good player. Didn't forget him he just doesn't make my list. Whether or not he should be in the Hall of Fame is a debate for another video. That's not what this video was about anyway.
@@birdlandnetwork83 okay I understand that and really appreciate your response but there are other players that should be in the hall that you didn’t mention that should be that didn’t use steroids. Baseball like other games is supposed to be about integrity and sportsmanship. That’s why if you cheat the game and you know it for personal gain or glory then we just should throw out the rules and regulations that keeps the game with integrity and honor. Cheating is cheating and it’s not like the players don’t know the rules. It’s similar to politicians when they get involved with cheating the nation taking bribes and caught doing dishonest things that they know is unlawful. They also must pay the consequences too. Although it maybe different professions by principle rules and regulations are the same.
@@ernieramos-dm1bt I understand your point and agree that these guys don't belong in the Hall of Fame because they used PEDs and they've paid the price for that. They're not in!!! That being said players like Bonds, Clemens, Arod, Manny and the others I listed are incredible players even without the PEDs and are clearly the best players not in the Hall. The other players who did not use are to be commended but they're still not better than those guys even if those guys didn't use. Just my opinion. BTW you are 100% correct it is about integrity, honesty and sportsmanship and those guys didn't have it and again.....that's why they're not in. Great conversation.
Steroids should have it's own ticket in the hall of fame.
There are many that agree with you.
We'll call it The Hall of Shame
I think Richie Allen became an enemy of the writers
Could be
To many white sox fans too. He quit and our team's Hope's fell. Our owner wasn't rich and sold off all his best players that helped other teams get to the world series. The Yankees and the Dodgers. Loss : Rich Gossage, Terry Forster , Bucky Dent , Brian Downing.and our manager Chuck Tanner went to Pittsburgh and won in 79
He is mine. I loved him when he came to the White Sox in 72 by signing a 4 year contract and they were contending . Players got hurt in 73 and 74 and than he just quit , retired in the beginning September 74.. Contracts were coming up in 76,and 77 and the owner was not wealthy and saw FREE AGENCY COMING IN 1976. TRADED, VETERANS AND UP AND COMING SUPERSTARS. THE FORMER WHITE SOX HELPED THE 77, 78 YANKEES, 77,78 DODGERS AND 79 PIRATES TO THE WORLD SERIES. THE PIRATES HIRED OUR MANAGER
All the PED stars need a wing in the HOF because seriously…..You can give these current guys the juice now and they will NOT put up AROD or Bonds Numbers. Those guys are special.
Sad part is those guys didn't even need to use PEDs and they were special. Sad just sad!! Greed and Fame does that to people.
@@birdlandnetwork83Dave (King Kong) Kingman never needed any anything either back in the day to hit some incredible bombs.
It's hard to get in if you played less than 15yrs. Dick Allen 's played just 11 full years and than quit. Wasn't any good after taking 1 or 2 yrs off. There are many I saw from the 1970's who played from 65-85 era who are deserving and more qualified than others on steroid .15 men can be listed, maybe 20. ROSE , T. JOHN, S. GARVEY , WITHAKER , MATTINGLY, GUIDREY , D Stieb , Bernie Williams, Jeff Kent. , K Hernsndez, of course Joe Jackson, Pete Rose. Will Clark
Good names on that list.
You are not mentioning the elephant in the HOF : steriods!
Thanks for the comments but if you watched the whole video I absolutely mentions PEDs. That being said this video isn't about whether they should be in the HOF or not. It's just a list of the 10 best players NOT in the Hall. Nothing more nothing less.
You forgot Rocky Colavito
Good Player.
@@birdlandnetwork83 Great player .
Better than Maris and Kaline and better than Frank Robinson after Robby's 1966 season , as Robby was just a good player from 67 to 71 .
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r certainly your opinion but he wasn't better than Kaline or Frank at any point in his career. My opinion back.
@@birdlandnetwork83 At least all 3 of them were much better than selfish non - team player Rickey Henderson , who attempted to steal bases when the Oakland A's were 9 runs ahead or 9 runs behind just to set stolen base records .
That isn't baseball , that is showing the other team up .
Rickey wouldn't last a month in the NL in the 1960s .
Bob Gibson , Don Drysdale , Juan Marichal , Jim Maloney , Warren Spahn , Ferguson Jenkins and Jim Bunning would see his selfish attitude and constantly knock him down.
And Rickey wouldn't steal many bases against great defensive catchers like Johnny Bench , Jerry Grote , Randy Hundley , Del Crandall , Tom Haller , Clay Dalrymple and Johnny Roseboro .
@@RobertStambaugh-l5r for some reason you really don't like Rickey Henderson. Either way he was a great ballplayer and a Hall of Famer. Sorry to disagree again but Rickey is better than those guys as well. He's the greatest base stealer every, was a good outfielder and probably the greatest leadoff hitter of all time. I don't like him either but the guy was amazing. Stolen bases were a big thing back then and he was the best at it. His job was to get on and steal and he did it better than anyone.