10 MORE MLB Hall Of Fame SNUBS (11-20) Who Should Be in The HALL OF FAME...
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- Опубликовано: 28 авг 2024
- AND THE snubs CONTINUE.... as a follow-up to my popular TOP 10 MLB HOF SNUBS Of All Time, this video continues with TEN MORE SNUBS!!! This list OMITS Steroid Users and Banned Players, since at least we know WHY those players are not in the Hall of Fame.
I couldn't mention EVERY ONE; look for more videos on more SNUBS coming soon!!!
TOP 10 SNUBS: • TOP 10 MLB Hall Of Fam...
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Mattingly's Batting career batting average is over .300 despite his bad back. Never struck out more than 43 times in a season. The year he hit 35 HR and 145 RBIs, he struck out just 41 times. In his prime he was among the toughest out there ever was.
The Hit Man was GREAT !
I've been screaming for years about him being snubbed. He deserves to be in.
The guy is one of the biggest "What if?"
I have grumbled about this for years also that Mattingly is one of the biggest HOF snubs ever and I'm not a Yankees fan either. Also he shares the single season record for Grand Slams
His prime, he was Tony Gwynn with slugging. People today tend to point to him not having 40+ homers to say he wasn't a power hitter, but he led the league in slugging over the 4 years from 1984-1987. He was the definition of a doubles machine.
Thank you for including my baseball idol on this one with Dale Murphy. Not only was he my favorite MLB player, Murphy was the reason Alex Rodriguez wore number 3 during his time with Seattle and Texas as he was also A-Rod's favorite player. Alex Rodriguez confirmed this in one of his RUclips videos.
Murph was the best.
Dwight Evans is a definite snub. He's a three time all star, 8 time gold glover (in right field in Fenway Park, a notoriously tough right field to play), two silver sluggers and four top 10 finishes for MVP. His WAR rating of 67.1 is 14th all time for players who primarily played right field.
So is Darrell Evans (no relation)
Yes indeed, and Humm Baby Baseball also snubbed Dewey twice in a row - he wasn't on the first list of snubs either! Dwight Evans was hands down the best right fielder in baseball during his career, but was overshadowed by Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Dave Parker and others who got more headlines.
@@bezllama3325 His 414 career home runs make him an interesting case, especially since 400 home runs was the "magic number" at one time. But, he also had a career .248 batting average. That alone could be keeping him out. Dave Kingman had a similar career. 400+ homers (442), sub .250 batting average (.236).
@@stevegallo8483 but Kingman couldn't field and struck out a lot.
I wonder if winning the WS in 1986 could have made a difference for his HOF case.
I've been in a personal campaign to get Kenny Lofton into the HOF. He had such impact upon games with his glove, bat, and legs, much more than someone like Mazeroski or Rizzuto (who should be in for broadcasting). Not really a home run hitter but, damn, he hit them at important times. Him being on the bases made life so much easier on hitters like Belle, Thome, and Manny Ramirez. His robbing Surhoff of a home run is the greatest of the "robbery" type.
Rizzuto is the most overrated player in the hall of fame it it a joke he is in the hall of fame
@@charleynewman4783 in that case neither does Reese or Stanky…..
Kenny’s teams got into the postseason. Definitely should be in.
I find it interesting to look at Garvey's strikeout totals. Currently, sluggers frequently strikeout up to 175 times per season(or even over 200). Some of Garvey's season totals were: 70, 59, 49, 64, etc. He struck out only about 10% of the time.
Agreed! I'm one of those people that thinks the strikeout for a batter is downright embarrassing and pathetic. Striking out 200 times in a season says a lot about a players pitch recognition. They must be more skilled than this. Hitting 40 home runs doesn't make up for the fact that the ball is not being put into play enough.
@Chief Chimp well it's not pathetic so maybe rethink the way you think about it. It's a very common outcome of an at bat.
He grounded out alot. That's how he got out basically.
@@brandons4301Doesn’t have to be though
Steve would've made it for sure and maybe broke Lou Gehrig's record if he hadn't broken his stupid thumb...
Orel Hershiser is certainly a hall of famer in my opinion. Counting stats dont blow you away, but he is one of the most clutch post season pitchers of all time.
if you pitch 200 innings and have a 4.45 era, you're not HOF material. He had 4 years of that.
The injury he had in 1990 sapped what should have been his prime. In a way he was kind of like Mattingly, a would be HOFer whose chance got ruined by injury.
@@Iamhungey fu#k you talking about? He was drafted in 1979 and was already 31 in 1990, his better years were behind him. Yet he still played 18 seasons. He just wasnt good enough for the hall kid.
@@erichvonmanstein6876 He had a torn labrum on his shoulder in 1990 that ended his season after few starts and you acted as if players usually fall off as soon as they hit 30. Even players in their 20s would have a sharp decline with the same injury that the guy had in 1990, how about you actually learn something before you start flapping your gums kid.
Hershisdr cost indians 1997 as if he wouldn't had two of his worst post season stars indians would a won the series
Older Cards fans i know swear by Roger Maris as a great, winning, all-around player. And that was at the end of his career. Just the cherry on top, when you consider his domination with the Yanks in the early 60s
Lou Whitaker has better stats than a lot of 2B already in the HOF.
He should be in over Alomar
@@VicRattleHead28they both should be in
@@VicRattleHead28 Alomar is deserving as well bud.
A good case could be made for Whitaker. His WAR is a bit above the average 2nd in the Hall, and his JAWS is just a bit under.
@@Iamhungey i know. Sweet Lou should be in though.
Thanks for adding our Dale Murphy. People don’t get how important he was for Atlanta. He was everything for over a decade, like, he was the Braves! Being in the stadium during a Murphy at bat was deafening. Plus, he was so clean on and off the field, the guy is saint-like. COME ON HOF, let Murph in during his lifetime, and during mine too!
Agree about Dale Murphy. He was the guy in Atlanta for a whole era in the 80s...it wasn't his fault they were crummy during that era before they had their run with all of those great pitchers.
He fizzled out a bit later on his career but he had a long enough run as an all star slugger to be HOF worthy. Same with Don Mattingly.
I disagree about Maris though. His lifetime stats and longevity just aren't there. Yes, he hit 61 HR in one year but he only had a couple more seasons that were all star caliber.
He had a good career with one amazing season. If you take that one year away his HOF chances would be zero.
I think the Veteran's Committee will continue to reward borderline candidates as long as they have no association with PEDs. Heck, I don't even expect Bonds and Clemens to appear on the ballot in December!
I think the worst thing that ever happened to him was getting sent here to Philadelphia.
So to you guys if you just have 8 good years out of 20 you belong in HoF. These guys on this list are bums when you compare their stats to Ruth, Gehrig, Mantle, DiMaggio.
@@ricogomez4020 So.... we skip 50 years of the game?⚾️
I love the Kenny Lofton nod. Spot on, Kenny should be in the Hall! 👍🏼
Kenny was my favorite player, he got screwed over big time by the writers
Kenny and Vizquel should be in.
Growing up playing those old school PC and PlayStation baseball games everyone tried to get Kenny lofton as their lead off hitter. If we go back the last 30 years who are the best leadoff hitters? It’s ichiro, lofton, then who? I think guys with that kind of skill set are much harder to find then your average power hitter.
@@stevenjohnson6699 Ricky Henderson is the greatest leadoff hitter of all time
Duh
Great list, I think Dwight Evans, Todd Helton, Paul Konerko, Albert Belle, Carlos Delgado, and Juan Gonzalez should have gotten more hall of fame votes.
Todd Helton most definately: OPS .953 OPS > 1.000 5X, outstanding.
I would say Todd Helton belongs in the Hall, the others not so much.
Todd Helton belongs in the hall of fame. Albert Belle was to much of a asshole for the writers to ever vote for. Extremely talented, but also a very cocky arrogant son of a bitch
Juan Gonzalez, if you believe Jose Canseco? In his book juiced Canseco talks about introducing Juan Gonzalez to steriods? Juan Gonzalez also didn't have the career numbers.
Evans was robbed of the MVP in 81. He was was a better defensive player than Rice.
Dave Stieb. Check out Dork Town's four videos on him.
Stieb > Jack Morris...... I hate the veterans committee, it's so political and easy to get 12 out of 16 as we found out when Baines got elected with a rigged vet committee full of people who managed him.
I can't voice an opinion on the early player you mentioned but, you are spot on once again. I'm a Met fan but, Mattingly is one of my all time favorites along with Kenny Loften.
Agree on Lofton; one of the best CF's and leadoff hitters of his era. I hope he gets in one day.
Is Lofton on the same level of Rickey Henderson, Lou Brock or Ty Cobb?
@@ricogomez4020 I'd put them in this order: Cobb, Rickey, Lofton, then Brock. Between Lofton and Brock, Lofton is a far better fielder, and his caught stealing % is better than Brock.
Ray Smith, I not sure why Vada Pinson doesn’t get more respect. He ended his career with over 2,700 hits,besides Willy Mays and Micky Mantle Vada was the top center fielder in Baseball, from 1959 - 1966 led the league several times in stolen bases and chances in the outfield, unfortunately he played in Willy Mays shadow but so did everyone else. His lifetime stats are better than alot of hall of famers,just don’t know why he doesn’t get more attention
Good case also as veteran or historic player.
Mark Grace: .303 career average, .383 OBP, 4x Gold Gloves, multiple All-Star selections, WS winner, over 1100 RBIs, over 2400 hits and *THE MOST hits and doubles by any player during the 1990's*. That the most hits and doubles by any player over an entire decade. That's a 10-year stretch that he outhit Tony Gwynn and Wade Boggs-two of the widely-regarded best contact hitters of that era and first-ballot hall of famers, yet Grace is a first-ballot drop-off.
Maybe it was because he was a 1B and it's expected for you to hit with power from that position. Or maybe it was because he never had that flashy league-leading season to make people take notice. But he was the epitome of consistency in a contact hitter putting up really good numbers year after year to make a league-leading decade all while being outstanding on the defensive side of the game as well.
He also had a big playoff series in 1989 when he and Will Clark put on a show for their respective teams. I hadn't really thought about it but after seeing your list I think he could be a consideration. Very good on defense. He was also a smart player and he was an excellent base runner for a somewhat slow guy. He was just very heads up when he got on base and didn't get himself doubled off or picked off and made a line drive go through before breaking for the next base. I'm glad he went to Arizona and got a ring.
I just became a fan of Steve Garvey! 10 gold gloves! he deserves to be in the Hall of Fame!
Garvey has improved in my opinion - very possibly yes on Garvey.
1974 MVP. 2 TIMEAll-Star MVP. OVER 1300 CONSECUTIVE games played. 6 Time 200 Hits, 5 Times World Series winning in 1981. .357 Avg . in post season. Steve should be in.
GOODY TWO SHOES BASTARD.
@@rufust.firefly4890 You think you're funny but you're not, you Groucho Marx wannabee.
Garvey is my favorite player of all-time but he didn't win 10 gold gloves. Only four. He probably could of if Keith Hernandez wasn't playing in the middle to late 70s and early 80s. What hurts Garvey and a few others mentioned in this video is that BS stat called WAR.
How about Gator Guidry. At age 27 he had a 25-3 season with a 1.74 ERA and 16 complete games, 9 shutouts with 248 strike outs. At 32 he was 21-9 with 21complete games and at 34 he put up a 22-6 with a 3.27 ERA.
Ron Guidry certainly was a dominant lefty for a decade with an unreal slider and a fast ball with as much ride as any you have seen, just insane movement. Despite only having 170 wins he had 95 complete games. He certainly deserves the hall and this is from a die hard Sox fan
Agree one of the best pictures of the late seventies and early eighties. Slim build but could fire 🔥 that ball
Louisiana Lightning was great! He was also the Ace on W.S. Champions
Bill Freehan snubbed!
Good pick. People living today forget about him. Easy to put in people with the 80s inflated stat totals... But was a great catcher, not a Johnny Bench but very solid.
Appreciate your inclusion of Dale Murphy in your HOF snubs.
As a Mets fan, I completely agree. He had so much talent in the field and at the plate.
He hit a homerun off Dwight Gooden in the mid 80's at Fulton County Stadium I watched in awe as I was in attendance. It was just as high as it was far.
I would like Dale Murphy to enter the hall of fame so my dozen or so rookie cards increase in value lol
Dale Murphy should have been arrested for all the money he stole at the end of his career.
I bet Joe is a blast to be friends with.
Both lists are fantastic but Albert Belle should also be on your list. 9 consecutive seasons over 100 RBI, 8 consecutive seasons over 30 HR, and everyone knows he should have won MVP in 1995 but was snubbed because he hated the media. His career was short due to injury like Mattingly and he was hated by the media like Allen, but he was one of the best hitters of the 90's.
Corked bat didn't help.
Yes, should be a haller, if it was just about character it would be a much smaller building, the guy could rake,
The only (Or first) player to hit 50/50 club. 50 Home run and 52 double.
The media issue wasn't Joey's only problem. Chasing down trick or treaters in his car after they egged his house, pegging a ball into the stands at a fan, charging the mound, punching people out, etc.
@@GeeEm1313
If behavioral standards are to be used in HOF qualification than players like Babe Ruth and Ty Cobb would be disqualified from membership.
Albert Belle's numbers far surpass those of Kirby Puckett who was known for his sweet smile and politeness. He defo belongs in the Hall.
Even you snubbed Dave Concepcion. He was the dominant SS in the seventies; the defensive glue of the Big Red Machine in the 70's. He should make your next list.
Streaky fielder. Someone from the Reds nicknamed him Elmer because the box scores often had E. Concepcion in it.
Davey also could come through with some clutch hits when it counted the most
Steve Garvey was the first baseman when Aaron broke the home run record, and Pete Rose broke the hits record.
How about Luis Tiant? He had nearly identical stats to at least two other pitchers in the HOF: Jim "Catfish" Hunter and Jim Bunning.
Tiant should be in for his wind up alone.
The problem is that Catfish Hunter shouldn't be in the hall of fame and Jim Bunning is a rather borderline case. Tiant has the 44th best WAR of all time. Tucked in between John Smoltz and Roy Halladay. There are only five eligible pitchers with ratings higher not in the hall of fame: Roger Clemens, Curt Schilling, Jim McCormick, Kevin Brown, and Rick Reuschel. Clemens, Schilling, and Brown should be in. McCormick and Reuschel are more interesting. McCormick pitched from 1878-87.. ten years, and averaged around 500 innings/year until he blew his arm out before 30 like a lot of nineteenth century pitchers. Most of his value lies in pitching every game of the season back in the dark ages so we can eliminate him, Reuschel just.. doesn't seem like a hall of famer honestly.. He was like the Harold Baines of pitchers. So you could well say Luis Tiant is the best over looked pitcher not in the hall of fame. The next lower pitchers besides Tiant not in the hall of fame are Tommy John and Bobby Wallace, another 19th century pitcher. Since Tommy John pretty much defines the line between hall of famer and just not quite good enough.. you can safely end it there. So of pitchers not in it's..
1. Roger Clemens
2. Curt Schilling
3. Kevin Brown
4. Luis Tiant
5. Tommy John (the cutoff)
So maybe Tiant is good enough to be in. but he'd be towards the bottom of the pack. That's the comparison I'd make if I were making the case for him. But honestly when he was playing nobody was thinking about him as a potential hall of famer, there was no discussion at all. Much like Bert Blyleven. But then Blyleven got in based on stats so what do I know?
TIANT HAS COMPARABLE STATS with Drysdale who never pitched in the 70s, out of bb by age 32-3. Tiant endured. He has said he doesn't want to go in posthumously. told his family to reject the award if he is not around. Same thing w/Rocky Colavito. Schilling has been snubbed because he spoke his mind. Wasn't PC(NOR SHOULD HE HAVE BEEN)
How about Carlos Delgado&Juan Gonzalez?.
What about Vida Blue and Milt Pappas Vida blues record basically identical to Catfish Hunter so you would have to put all three of those pitchers jn
As a Dodger fan I want to thank you for mentioning Steve Garvey. Another amazing first baseman I feel that has been snubbed is #22 Will Clark. If he didn't have a Hall Of Fame career he sure as heck had a first ballot HOF swing. Much respect to you and your channel.
Things would've been so different if he had stayed in San Francisco. He'd have gotten loads more pitches to hit and put up big time numbers because pitchers would be so terrified of Barry Bonds on deck.
If he stays in SF and gets along with Bonds, my money says Will Clark has 3000 hits and 500 home runs.
Nice video. For me the biggest snubs are men from the 1800s who played decades before the HOF was realized. Players like Ross Barnes, Harry Stovey, Jim McCormick, Paul Hines, Bill Dahlen, Tommy Bond, Hardy Richardson, George Van Haltren would get my vote as well as pioneers like Nick Young, Dickey Pearce and Joe Start.
Dahlen, Bond, and Stovey are especially of note in that group
I'm all in with you on Parker, Lofton and especially Edmonds. Growing up playing centerfield and having speed, Lofton and Edmonds were two people I wanted to be like. If the ball was in the air, you could almost count on them to get to it no matter where it was hit. They deserve their spot in the Hall.
Its a joke Dave Parker is not in the HOF
Dave Parker had it all. Maybe comming to the Pirates after Roberto created to many comparisins. But there wasnt a baseball skill he lacked.
Just put great players who played 15 years or more and ended up with solid numbers. Enough of these players like Parker , Murphy, Dick Allen, Edmonds who put up 5 great years and then went so-so for 10.
Edmonds combo of incredible defense with power hitting and on base skills warranted at the least more consideration. Thanks for including him on this list.
How about Al Oliver , lifetime BA of around.300 with close to 3000 hits, sounds like a HOF to me…..
He was always underated. Great player every play.
Mark Grace
@@commonsense7787 Grace had a GREAT career too. MORE hits and doubles than any other player in the decade of the 90's. back in 1989, a Sun times/sportswriter called Grace, the next Bill Buckner. he came very, very close.
Great point, Al Oliver was great, as he hit over .300 for twelve seasons. Both Al Oliver and Mark Grace ended up with a .303 BA. You guys are all on the same page.
Al Oliver had such a fluid swing that was a beauty 2 watch. He was also an above-average fielder.
Dave Stieb, please, best WAR of any AL pitcher during the eighties. And, let alone the lost back to back no nos with two out, I'd forgotten about the 3 consecutive shutouts. There is an exceedingly good four part production on RUclips by Dorktown called " meet Dave - Captain Ahab: The Story of Dave Stieb. " He pitched in the early eighties before the closer support of Tom Henke and at times in a four man rotation with Jim Clancy, Luis Leal and Jim Gott. He put the Jays on the map. Enjoy the baseball everybody!
Thank you for including Omar and Kenny on your list. They were amazing at their positions and a whole lotta fun to watch.
You're welcome!
Roger Maris. 2 time MVP led the team in RBI in 1960,51,and 62. Injured in 63 and early 1964. It wasn't the harmonica that got the yankees to world series in 64. It was Maris coming off the DL and replacing Mantle in centerfield. Was the best player in the AL from mid-June to end of season. Along with Mel Stottlemyre coming from minors. Had a career changing injury in 65 in a home plate collision. Also, fans were not booing Maris in 61. The reporters were. Watch the video of him hitting 61st homer. Who is booing?
OK, you just shocked me that Dale Murphy isn't in the Hall.
Yeah he just sort of disappeared, and then the Braves became the dominant team of the National League throughout the 90's after his career is over.
Al Oliver needs some love. One of the great underrated players in history. Over 2700 hits and a batting Title
Him...Cecil cooper, Tommy John , vada Pinson? Verne stephens? Mattingly?? Guidry??
MATTINGLY and Garvey belong in the HOF MATTINGLY ALSO WON 9 GOLD GLOVES AND HIT 6 GRAND SLAMS IN ONE SEASON MAJOR LEAGUE RECORD
@@winstonjames2583 Wow, Vada Pinson, haven't heard that name in decades. Pinson played for the Angels when I attended my very first game ever as an eight year old at Anaheim Stadium in 1972.
Played before ESPN started showing games so not much video of him exist..... Yes, I forgot about him, he should be in if they are allowing all this so-so players from 80s and 90s in now.
@@robertpaciullo1540 And Mattingly never hit a grand slam in any other season....... His career total is 6... One of the most odd stats in baseball history
Great list. I am still not sure about Jim Edmonds, but you included Dave Parker and Dale Murphy so you are excellent on your analysis.
Jim Edmonds was the Best CF of his time era. A late start and injuries at the beginning of his career and end kept him from getting milestone numbers. I'll never forget some of the catches he made
Bite your tongue.
My take on Roger Maris is that he’s MLB’s Joe Namath. I say that for the fact both are pretty much best known for one huge accomplishment, but said accomplishment is gigantic in their game. And if Namath is enshrined in Canton, then surely Maris deserves a plaque in Cooperstown.
I see what you're saying and to an extent you're right but even though looking back at his numbers today they don't seem special, Namath was one of the best QBs in the league when he played and it was also more of a running league back then as well. Although was never the best in the game, to me he compares more with Mantle because his knees were ruined by the time he got to the NFL so who knows what he could have been. He also played on a lot of mediocre to bad Jet teams in the 70s.
Maris was also a two-time MVP.
Namath and KenStabler overrated. check their stats.
Perhaps a career, over-shadowed, by that epic season. Maris just remembered for greatest but forgotten for his great career.
@@rufust.firefly4890 Well Rufus they played a different game , with different rules.
Great vid but if maris hit 59 home runs in 1961, you wouldn’t even know his name. He isn’t a HOFer
There are tons of guys in the hall that are basically unknowns today.
Except he won the MVP the year before on a team with Berra, Ford & Mantle. Not too many two-time MVPs have been left out.
Maris was a fine ballplayer but not even close to HOF caliber.
If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle
Would love to see Thurman Munson get in the hall someday.
My favorite player growing up
No question how do list 20 guys without Thurman
Na not H.O.F. , Hall of very good.
career too short, sadly
@@erickennedy8534 definitely hall of fame,
I thought Garvey was already in. That is surprising. The massive Garvey forearms are hof worthy
I thought he was in also. Shocking.
Since you've mentioned George Van Haltren, I'd like to also mention a slew of other very fine 19th C. ball players that might also just as well deserve Hall inclusion: Harry Stovey, Paul Hines, George Gore, Jack Glasscock, Tony Mullane, Hardy Richardson, Charlie Bennett, and Pete Browning. Clearly this is a very underrepresented era in the Baseball Hall of Fame.
I put Jack Glasscock on my next video and your comment is shown; it will be live this week!
@@HummBabyBaseball 19th players got overlooked because when the Hall first started, they had a huge backlog of past players to go through. By the time they caught up, those players were often forgotten and people who seen them play were dead.
Dave Parker was better than 100 players in the Hall. Steve Garvey should be in.
Another issue is they blame Drug use for Parker’s drop off but his worse years 81 and 82 he suffered bad knees and arm and hand injuries. He played hurt much of the time. Once he became healthy and got clean he was dominant through his mid and late thirties, that is hard to do. He’s got the stats, awards, longevity and big moments especially in the All star games.
Dave Parker is still legend and should be in the hall of fame
All star selections shouldn’t be a consideration for the HOF because essentially it’s a popularity contest where players are voted in by fans
Exactly because jt realmuto should been a all star last year
2 great videos! Love that you show light on George Van Haltren and Jimmy Ryan. Joe Carter should get some consideration. 10 seasons of 100+ rbis, including 1994 season (115 games). Shame that Jason Varitek and Jorge Posada lasted only one year on HOF ballot.
These lists are great. Many of these players had points in their careers it was assumed hall of Fame. At Least dominance. Dale Murphy is a great example feared by pitchers, consistent.
Dave Stieb: seven-time All-Star, won 140 games in the 1980s, the second-highest total by a pitcher in that decade. 176-137
Earned run average
3.44, 1,669 strikeouts …
Love your content. For your 30-21 list consider Bernie Williams. While his .297 career BA may miss .300 by .003, his 5 All star appearances, 4 gold glove awards, 1 silver slugger,, 1 league championship MVP, and being the absolute leader in postseason RBI and 3rd all time in postseason HRs to help the NYY win 4 World Series should push him over the edge, all while remaining clean in the steroid era.
And a great jazz guitar player too. Also remembered for accusing George Costanza for booking the Yankees at a Ramada in Milwaukee too.
This list breaks my heart and baffles my mind. All are well deserved of the HOF
Mattingly swing was dope! bent his knees, nice swing and lefty!!!
Great video. Seeing your opinion on Roger Maris, I think you'd consider Lefty O'Doul. He is another player who doesn't really have the counting stats due to limited playing time, but in his prime he was one of the biggest stars in baseball and he retired with a gaudy batting average. His impact off the field was even greater though, as he was an influential figure in bringing baseball to the Japan.
I like walking across the Lefty O'Doul bridge going to Giants games
4.25 career ERA isn't exactly HOF worthy but Jaime Moyer racked up 269 wins and was an effective MLB pitcher until he was nearly 50 years old and had an amazing season at age 45 (16-7, 3.71 ERA, 199 IP).
I would agree watch this guy for years with Seattle.
Hell no!
Win total is one of the worst criteria to judge HOF worthiness on.
@@fuzzywarble I agree to certain extent however at certain point it does indicate success on long term scale... most of today's best active pitchers with far better advanced stats are unlikely to reach 250 wins.
Moyer is an excellent choice. I don't know much about his career, but as a Phillies player, he got a ring and a penet. He grew up near Philadelphia, so he loved it here. He had such command of the ball, all the Aces were always learning from him.
Ken Boyer should be in the Hall of Fame. His career started two years late because of military service. Once he joined the Cardinals in 1955 he was one of the premier players in the game for 11 years. Five Gold Gloves against stiff competition from Eddie Mathews. Boyer's offensive numbers, averaged annually, exceeded those of Brooks Robinson, a Hall of Famer himself. He also was MVP in 1964, led the majors in RBI that year and led the Cardinals to the World Series championship. He was a true five-tool player, who also played center field in 1957.
You could use the Sandy Koufax Argument. He dominated for a six year stretch. With Maris and Murphy
Wait....how is Sandy Koufax not in there?
@@robertcooney1938 Koufax is in. He’s saying that like how Koufax’s peak was so good, despite a short career, to get him enshrinement the peaks of Maris & Murphy should do the same.
I would also add Mattingly who is more like Koufax in that injuries forced his early retirement.
Maris had two great years, but other than those two he was just very good, and sometimes average. For 5 years, Koufax was the best pitcher on the planet, maybe even the best ever. Even in Maris' best year, his teammate Mantle was his equal. No one was Sandy's equal in the first half of the 60s.
@@nicholasschroeder3678
Maris had FIVE good years and two great ones. If the Yankees hadn't lied to him about his broken hand (which he tried to play through), he'd be an all-time great.
@@TheBatugan77 Or at least gotten 2,000 hits which could have given him enough benefit of doubt from the voters. Plus people forgotten that he was a great defender as well.
On Mattingly, 100% should be in. He was a absolutely one of the most feared hitters in his time. I felt so bad he retired right before the Yanks started winning championships. His 1 playoff appearance rejuvenated his spirit and physical abilities because he was so excited to be in the post season., he hit over .400.
The best argument for Mattingly is Kirby Puckett..go look at the numbers…they are identical in the same era over the same number of years. Putting on one and not the other is criminal.
@@davemal15 the we ring too
Mattingly was never the same after his back surgery.
@@terrenceliburd8655 as someone whose had back surgery, you are never the same. There's no arguments, he should be in. His dominance lasted long enough. I think just about anyone would take Mattingly over Pucket during his reign of terror on the AL! It's like defense isn't even part of the game knowing how good he made fielders look. It's just my opinion, but if he hung around for a few seasons as the batboy and won a few rings, this would be a moot point..... 2 playoff appearance is what is keeping him out
@@davemal15 Puckett was an outfielder.
Don Mattingly, Jeff Kent yes . RON GUIDRY TOO
I'd like to stand up for Danny Murtaugh...as a manager!
Won 2 World Series with the Pittsburgh Pirates.
1. 1960, the Pirates won in 7 games against the powerful and elite New York Yankees.
2. 1971, the Pirates won again against my All-Time favorite team, 3X defending AL champs and defending World Series champion Baltimore Orioles.
His health preventing him from having big win career totals, but for 2 different yrs, 11yrs apart...He put the Pirates on top!!
Thanks, Danny! R.I.P.
Roger Maris was a terrific ballplayer with a Canon for an arm!!!
I watched this to see if Steve Garvey would be on the list. I have something you missed and is very impressive.
Steve Garvey had 200+ hits in a season 6 times, more times than the great Tony Gwynn. To me this is an exceptional feat and should alone gain him entry into the HOF
Edmonds and Lofton getting no love for HOF votes was shocker... they were the best CF in their time and should be in the hall.
Do you think Dwight Evans could be on one of these lists? I believe he led MLB in XBH in the 80s, was an elite defensive RF with a gun for an arm, 67.2 career baseball reference WAR with a 127 OPS+.
His numbers are very similar to Jim Rice and was better on the field.
@@timothy4664 Jim Rice wasn’t Irish, that’s why he doesn’t get a statue in Boston
@@anthonypopola5773 Are you drunk? Who is talking about statues and race? Jim Rice is in the hall of fame and Dewey isn't. I was arguing that they are similar but Dwight has better defensive stats. Take that race baiting nonsense elsewhere. I am not interested.
Based strictly on overall numbers, I never considered Roger Maris a all of famer. However after your presentation I am taking a deeper look at his career stats.
My short list of snubs:
1. Curt Schilling
2. Bobby Grich
3. Fred McGriff
****************
Great list. To me Dave Parker is a must. Great hitter and you didn't run on his arm. Mattingly, Lofton, and Garvey are no brainer Hall of Famers.
Luis Tiant! Over a five year period with the Red Sox, '72 - '76, he won 96 games! Three out of those five years he won 20 + games. Over his career he was 229-172, a .571 won-lost percentage, with 2,416 Ks. His stats parallel or exceed Catfish Hunter who is in the HoF. .
Pump ur brakes, Catfish was a Cy Young Winner, 5x World Series Champion, ERA Champion and pitched a Perfect game
Dale Murphy's biggest problem was that he came right before the steriod era.
A lot of these guys unfortunately don’t pass the WAR test, including my all-time favorite player Donny Baseball. Lofton, at 14th all-time in the centerfield WAR rankings, absolutely needs to be in the hall. Great video, thanks for making it!🙏🏿
The 94 strike probably has hurt Mattingly's chance a lot. Probably the best Yankee team he was on, and he sort of reinvented himself at the time, hitting for good avg and OBP.
Mattingly, Munson, Mcgriff, Murphy, Cash
Norm Cash..... hummm, 3rd most RBI's of any player in the 60s in the AL only trailed Killebrew and Brooks Robinson.. Killebrew was not a first ballot HOFer.... Tougher back then to get in.
Mark Grace is my choice. Never wore batting gloves that I know of. I thought that was interesting.
Most hits and doubles out of any player in the 1990's. Dude was automatic.
Thanks. He was always overlooked and I was sad when he went to Arizona.
Mattingly was snubbed of his 2nd MVP when Clemens was given it . People don’t think about that
Roger Clemens didn’t deserve shit
Wow!
Bernie Williams belongs in the HOF more than any ball player on this list.None of these great ball players achieved the same status.He made things happen when they needed to happen.
He was the personification of clutch…played in 6 World Series winning 4 times winning the MVP in 1998 ( Yanks won 125 games that year and crushed everyone in the playoffs)
.297 Lifetime BA, 2400 hits, 1300 RBIs, 1400 runs scored , 5 All Star appearances, 4 gold gloves…450 doubles ,55 triples, 287 hrs,batted over .300 8 times (.339/.342 ) !
121 post season appearances
22 post season HRs, 80 post season RBIs…The Yankee Dynasty of the late 90s /early 2Ks…arguably the greatest ensemble of MLB talent ever… would not have succeeded without him.
How is he NOT in the HOF?
Totally Agree … he was the guy teams worried about not Jeter.. AROD was right about that.
I wonder how things could have gone if it weren't for knee injury in 2003 that caused his decline to become more drastic.
I always just thaught marris, mattingly, garvey, murphy and parker were in the hall , mind u i was born in 81 so these names were talked about like they were legends
They were
Charlie Grimm definitely deserves it, his managing career and playing career combine to make a very overwhelming case
Charlie Grimm was a baseball lifer who's ashes were scattered at Wrigley Field
This was a very entertaining, well-reasoned and persuasive program. It convinced me that fielding excellence just doesn't much matter to HoF voters. I recall, by the way, that in the '62 Series, his throwing skills kept Mays (or was it McCovey?) at third base in the ninth inning of Game Seven, helping to save the day for the Yankees.
Check your history. McCovey made the last out.
It was Matty Alou that took the wide turn at third, and then decided to go back and give McCovey a crack! Willie Mays was the one that hit the ball into the right field corner!
OMG, I assumed Parker & Garvey were in, Dale Murphy is a First Ballot Statomatic HOFer, Omar NO Doubt, great job. Also Garvey deserves to go in w the whole Dodger in feild as the GR8ST EVR
Fred Clarke was also a manager and that has a lot to do with his induction
don mattingly one of my favorite player ever
Steve Finley is one of only two players in major league history to hit at least 300 homers, 425 doubles, and 100 triples, and steal at least 300 bases. The other is Willie Mays.
Wow, almost forgot about Finley. The Orioles traded Finley, Schilling and another player for Glenn Davis. Davis was a total bust and Finley and Schilling went on to have stellar careers.
Thanks for mentioning Murphy. I agree you cant talk about his era without him because he was the best. This is Mike Schmidt time and it belonged to Nurphy
I think Dale Murphy had he stayed in Atlanta would have had been voted in...
I still can't believe Barry Larkin got in the Hall of Fame and Dave Concepcion is not.. Dave Concepcion belongs in the Hall. But voters today look at different numbers such as homers, and the shortstop position was different then. He was innovative defensive player and could steal bases and clutch in the playoffs.
Well people need to look into that because there are so many people that need to be in the Hall of Fame.
Like Cesar Cedeno, Jim Edmonds, Kenny Lofton and so many more who had a lot of hits, gold glove awards and MVPs
Orel Hershiser needs to also be in the Hall of Fame as well. He was dominant for a good long time.
Probably had THE most dominate pitching season EVER in 1988
He us a tweener. Orel played for some so so teams that kept his win toral an percentage marginal. Due to no fault of his. Number lookers gey to stuck on just numbers.
good job ill have to check out your other video. Just subscribed. Like your channel.
Love the list. One I think you’re missing is Dwight Evans. Had a very consistent career hitting over 20 HRs 11 times. Bunch of gold gloves. Has very good WAR. I don’t think he gets enough credit for how disciplined a hitter he was. Has a ton of BBs. He played in a time where starters would chase complete games but his discipline destroyed pitch counts with his long ABs. He also did this in pre steroid era. Another player to mention Craig nettles another high WAR guy. Played a more premium defensive position so I think deserves a little slack.
I got one that isn’t really talked about currently on the ballot. Torii Hunter. His lifetime stats remind me of Edmonds and Andruw Jones. Especially at CF. He got over 2000 hit unlike those two. In fact he got like 2400 if I remember correctly. 9 straight GG. 8 is impressive for Edmonds. 10 is impressive for Andruw. 9 is right up there for me. Damn near 400 bombs too. And the great moment with Barry in the ASG. Come on. Put him in.
Yeah lets put all the "almost good enough" guys in so we can have a hall of good players instead of hall of fame players🤨
@@erichvonmanstein6876 if you wanna put andruw and Edmonds in for defense based on GGs with 10 and 8, Hunter has to be in the conversation with 9. And, arguably, better lifetime numbers. Andruw’s peak was way better don’t get me wrong. I just think you can’t leave these people out when mentioning all the other people at their position. Also I’m a braves fan. Can’t call me biased either 😂
@@jacobredmond4127 you're a braves fan, how do you figure we cant call you biased? You do know jones came in with Atlanta and played his first ELEVEN SEASONS there right🤨
@@jacobredmond4127 gold gloves are a non factor in hall of fame criteria. If they meant anything omar vizquel would be in. These guys dont have hall of fame numbers. They are where they should be, on a list of good to very good players but not in the hall of fame.
@@jacobredmond4127 edmonds defensive war is 6.4👎
Andruw jones is (by this measure) the best defensive centerfielder of alltime with a war of 24.4. if he would have had just a couple more good years on offense he would ,out of the 3, most likely be in. He has 434 hrs but he doesnt even have 2000 hits, bats an abysmal .254 lifetime with barley over 1000 runs and rbis scored. Nothing about that says hall of fame. But like i say if he could of tacked on a couple more good years he may have made it.
got to give you a thumbs down because you still have not GIVEN THURMAN MUNSON HIS DO!
Steve Garvey, Brett Butler, Jeff Kent, Dale Murphy, Dave Concepcion, Fernando Valenzuela, Denny Martinez, Jim Edmonds, Bobby Murcer, and Andruw Jones, Jamie Moyer, "Bad-Jose" Canceco, "Will The Thrill" Clark, Bill Russell, and Dave "The Cobra" Parker....
I didn't quite think it possible to firmly agree with a RUclipsr on every single sentence in a 16 minute video. Most of these guys belong in the Hall even more than the Top 10.
Roger Maris does not warrant HOF consideration. He hit 36% (100) of his career home run total in his 2 mvp seasons. 175 in his other 10, and he couldn't hit for avg (.260). Need to have either HR total, a decent avg, or once in a generation defense
Example- jim rice hit 382 hr, batted .298 career, and barely got into the hall in his 15th year of eligibility.
Never understood Jeff Kent not making it either... sometimes I think the writers make it personal rather than making it about the numbers, which is very unfortunate
Ofcourse they do, come on man.
@@erichvonmanstein6876 well I guess I'm stating the obvious here? Some people don't know why Curt Schilling was kept out... I've been asked? Dude was apart of a Dynasty a curse breaking Dynasty has a 11-2 record in the post season and struck out 3,000 batters, and the writers were like but excuse me he likes Donald Trump and asked to not get into the hall and it's like fuck you guys... tell the story
@@gadbammit4736 they all know about how Bonds is done dirty. The same writers/voters that voted him MVP 7 Times are the same ones who not voting him into the hall. So even though (they think,) but even though they "knew" then about him and PEDs his numbers were still good enough for them to vote him the best player in the league an unprecedented 7 times but those same numbers arent worthy of the hall because now "hes cheating"🤨
@@gadbammit4736 thats what happens when you let desk jockeys and camera monkeys vote on a game that NONE of them have played. The Hall of Fame has nothing to do with MLB anyway. Meaning it has no affiliation with the league it is an entirely separate entity. So in my mind i dont give a sh#t about the hall of fame it means nothing. Like " oh no! These fat, stupid people who NEVER PLAYED PRO BALL wont let Worthy ballplayers in their building because of whatever dumba$$ reason that suits them at the time." .........who gives a sh#t. A REAL fan knows who is "hall worthy" or not. We dont need anyones vote to tell us.
@@gadbammit4736 i mean think about it.....how did somebody NOT vote for ken griffey jr? How did he not get 100%? Like what asinine reason could anyone have to not vote junior in? Or cal ripken jr or rickey Henderson, or Babe Ruth? You phuking kidding me? How did Babe Ruth not get 100%? S#it is rediculous
Kenny Lofton was my favorite player growing up. Incredible that they first year bounced him. 9th best WAR ever! I checked out of the HOF after this.
Great video and great list, I agree with you 💯 on your list. I grew up watching Donnie Baseball ⚾️ and he definitely belongs in HOF he always gets over looked. If it wasn’t for him there definitely would have been no crowds in the Bronx in the 80’s- 90’s before 95. I don’t know what do you think should Lance Berkman be in the HOF? I do I think he gets over looked as well. 6x Allstar 366 HR 1,234 RBI, 293 BA and 1x World Series Champion. I know his numbers don’t jump out at you but what he did for the teams he played with. Please let me know what you think thanks.
Another Jeff Kent fun fact - he's the all time home run leader among second basemen. He should be in 100%.
The reason Kent isn't in the hall of fame has to do with his attitude and his numbers aren't quite good enough. He was a Prima Donna and a red ass. He benefitted from Bonds in the line up by geting mostly fastballs to hit when he batted in front of him. Just like Robby Thompson. He wasn't a .300 hitter, didn't have 3,000 hits and his OBP was just .356. He was good, like Steve Garvey, but he wasn't great.
Roger Maris definitely belongs in the Hall of Fame. He played with a broken hand/injured wrist in 1965 with team management refusing to tell him they had proof of his injury. The hand/wrist never mended properly and he played four years with this problem. If the hand had been surgically corrected he could have played up to about 1970 and hit at least another 100 career HRs. As for why he did not win more golden gloves, that's because Al Kaline played in those years and he was the league's best in the modern era.
Great list. All of these great players belong in the HOF.
I am glad you showed Lou Piniella in the Lofton segment. I remember the 95 ALCS, and it seemed like my Mariners started every game a run behind just because of him.
I like your list and your arguments.
I think you should think of Dwight Evans and Juan Gonzales
One thing I don't think gets brought up.enough is how the 94-95 strike impacted the HOF arguments for so many great players. There are guys who are very close to haggling HOF worthy numbers, but fall just short. And they missed out on 63-65 games (depending on how many they played in 94 before the strike began)
An excellent example of this was Fred McGriff, who thankfully was finally inducted. He was 7 HR shy of 500 and likely first ballot entry. And he missed out on over 60 games in a period where he was at his best power wise. In 257 games in 94-95, he had 61 homers. He was at 34 with 59 to go when the strike began. Barring injury, there is just zero chance he doesn't hit at least 7 in the 65 games he lost to the strike. He probably hits an extra 15+, maybe even gets to 512 and surpasses Mel Ott.
Another player hurt was Matt Williams, who was on a near historic HR pace and easily missed out on 20 homers, which would have gotten him to about 400, giving him a better case. 400 career homers and potentially a single season record is a compelling argument.
I've been lucky enough to play golf with Dave Parker a few times. He is incredibly humble and just a really cool dude. The first time I played with him I had no idea who he was. I was only 15, once I found out who he was I couldn't wait to play with him again.
I agree, the steroid era has screwed over some great players who didn't take the juice. Agree with Edmonds, Mattingly, Parker and Garvey. Ashame they aren't in yet. They are no brainers in my opinion.
Agreed
Here's a vote for Donny Baseball....and that's coming from a long time Red Sox fan!!
Wow !
Let's also get Juan Gonzalez some recognition! Two time M V P in the American league, over 400 plus home runs .
He was the steroid king
Dale Murphy - Most Total Bases in the 80's
Another guy to consider: Lance Berkman. He had an excellent peak with solid career stats. If we're comparing outfielders, he was certainly a step above Maris.