Pathfinder: WotR - Five Classes We Didn't Get
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- Talking about a few classes that I think would have been cool additions but for various reasons weren't added.
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
01:33 Summoner
03:32 Omdura
05:05 Antipaladin
06:57 Brawler
08:30 Mesmerist
11:00 Wrap Up
Intro Music By Juan Andrés Matos, www.juanmatosmusic.com/
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Investigator getting cut so Camellia isn't caught in the prologue is my favorite (fake) explanation.
I woulda wished for brawler because I woulda liked an unarmed class that wasnt forced into being lawful
Brawler and summoner are both classes i'd love to see..
I've heard they're gonna make the alcoholic monk archetype not locked to lawful.
They gonna allow Drunken Master to be Chaotic in one of the future updates , so there's hope.
Yeah closest you can get for a really good "unarmed" melee is a shifter.
SAME!
The Call of the Wild mod for Kingmaker added Summoner, Antipaladin and Brawler.
That was part of my surprise when Shifter was added instead in Last Sarkorians. The planar connection of the revised Summoner just made so much sense with WotR’s themes…
There's a mod called Making Friends for WotR that adds Summoner.
And Investigator. And Occultist. And Spiritualist. And ... what a great mod!
I think a mythic ability/feat that let antipaladins smite anything would've been sufficient to make them not awful.
antipaladin also has insinuator subclass that gets smite impudence, which lets you smite anything outside the alignment of the deity you negotiated your powers from, so you can still smite chaotic evil.
Occultist is the number one, it even fits nicely into the narrative. If a moder did a relatively good job of implementing in Kingmaker Owlcat could have made it.
Occultist was going to be my next character on tabletop but my group switch to DnD5e... it's such a cool tool box class
@@jacobwaskow3301oof, my condolences. 5e is rough. I'm not a fan of PF2e either, but it would have been better at least.
It's my favourite class. A lot of micromanagement for the Owlcat interface, though, so I don't mind it staying in tabletop. Same schtick with Medium, which I also love.
I would have liked to see Gunslinger and a mythic path built around arming the crusade with firearms. Pike and Shot VS Demons just really speaks to me for some reason.
I'm fond of Swashbuckler. The Duelist prestige class extended to a whole class by adding grit abilities from gunslinger. Closest you'd get to a gunslinger in this game.
Rowdy Rogue with a heavy Crossbow spamming Vital Strike, pretend the 1 attack per round is reloading your musket.
The gunslinger 😢
I always felt like Gunslinger was relatively unlikely, since it would have required and revolved around adding a whole new weapon type into the game, distributing that weapon type properly throughout the game, etc. Everything they are would revolve around that specific weapon pretty much by definition. On the other hand, we did get Mantis Zealot and the sawtooth sabers, but that didn't require changing up a bunch of chests and enemies to distribute sawtooth sabers throughout the game like gunslingers would.
@@neodav00001 That's what I was thinking as well. But then there's swashbuckler, which is very similar in mechanics to the gunslinger and doesn't require any new weapons. Owlcat could reutilize a lot of coding for these two classes since they share some abilities and mechanics, so it feels like a bit of a missed opportunity there.
No Gunslinger. No Swashbuckler. I guess Panache/Grit would be too hard to code?
@@neodav00001 and how complocated it is. A weapon can't be too complex to code, and distributing 5 or 6 items across the game does not seem like an hercukean task. Hell, you can just add a single new merchant and call it a day.
@@neodav00001 Developers when they need to develop something
Would loved to have seen the Summoner and Antipaladin, makes me want to see Owlcst do an Evil Campaign like Way of the Wicked
I call dibs on a hypothetical "Five Mythic Paths We Didn't Get" video: Protean, Psychopomp/Sahkil, Elemental, Green Man, Daemon :p
Agathion
I think that they should have used Psychopomp in the place of swarm, for me makes more sense.
What we clearly lack is a Kaiju or Titan mythic path.
Dominion of the Black / Dark Tapestry, Qlippoth, Archon
The summoner was in the Call of the Wild mod for Kingmaker. Was pretty neat.
WotR also has a Summoner mod available: Making Friends
Antipaladin was a missed opportunity. Double so because Staunton in the tabletop AP also was an Antipaladin. Owlcat making him into a Warpriest is like making Seelah into a Warpriest. Similar, but not quite...
I wanted to play this as second playthrough in kingmaker. Not only is the antipaladin missing, but the normal paladin has this stupid alignment restriction. Luckily....there are mods for both problems. Good to play on pc.
Antipaladin also fits the undead queen better
IDK about classes, but I REALLY wanted to play as a Wyvaran
closest thing to Dragonborn pathfinder system has
Thank you for all you do, especially your recent videos. I've been playing Pathfinder since I was in middle school and have always loved the system albeit have also always been able to admit it's downsides. I was so ecstatic when I found out about Kingmaker, and have absolutely loved both games. I'm glad to see someone making content and loving it just as much if not more so.
One archetype WotR honestly direly needed is the Planar Extremist: a non-Neutral (ex-)Druid, getting a choice between a Cleric's alignmental domains or a Summoner's eidolon, as well as certain outsider Bloodrager bloodlines. Would have been beautifully useful for Angel, Demon, Devil and Azata...
Investigator (my beloved)
Gunslinger is the one I've always wanted. Especially with their love of Numeria. Hopefully if they do another Pathfinder game, now that they've broken the wall between guns and fantasy with Rogue Trader. Especially since I'd really like to see them tackle Skull and Shackles. And that's mandatory, IMHO, for that AP.
There is actually a new mod called Making Friends for WotR that adds the Summoner class
I've heard though, they didn't add the class because it would've been more work than most classes combined
Shadow Dancer prestige class was so flavorful but not very powerful mechanically
Love this format. I'd appreciate videos on features and feats we could (or should) have gotten.
The one I would have liked was Oathbreaker, though it is available via the Expanded Content 2022 mod. Brawler and Dreadknight are also available via mods.
All of the classes that use the Psychic spellbook, like the Mesmerist. There are level 9 and level 4 variant classes of that as well. The Gunslinger, their archetypes and other gun-based archetypes of other classes like Fighter.
I knew they'd never add it, but I kept hoping for Crimson Templar to show up as a Prestige Class. Ragathiel is my favorite deity-like being in Pathfinder, and it would have fit the campaign's flavor.
Same thing! Crazy it didn’t make it there, especially given that they have stuffed the Mantis zealot in. Also, crazy that they didn’t add switching class clothes
Gunslinger would have been really cool, the PF1e is super fun! Ancestry wise Kobold would have been great!
Anti paladin was definietly the one I would be hyped most. I use to love tyrant (devil/LE variant) and the undead one (I don't remember the name) variants in pnp. Would work really well with the story.
edit. also shadow dancer prestige class tho owlcat would have to remake it.
The Microscopic Content Expansion mod has the Knight of the Sepulcher archetype for undead Antipaladin vileness :)
I would have legit traded half of wotr classes for just the summoner...
Summoner done properly would take so much extra work from both a coding standpoint and an art standpoint.
@@Flagonborn i'd take them not being done properly because i'd pkay synthesist anyway lol.
Also, i think unchained shoukd be much easier considering it use fixed bodytypes. They can just take a bunch of models they already have and change them a bit.
@@noukan42 ah not familiar with that, the only time I played one it was basically an almost unregulated build your own pokemon style class. It was extremely cool, but most of its flavor I feel would be lost with the limitations of the engine.
Thanks for the video. I can't say there's a class in particular I wanted to see, but something Witcher adjacent might've been neat. Onward to 400k. All glory to the algorithm.
All the Five Classes We Didn't Get youtube Jazz
I've really enjoyed some of the modded archetypes. Drake rider cavalier is my Regil build right now.
Vigilante with warlock subclass would have been a lot of fun imo. My personal favorite aside from shadow dancer
i hope we see more Pathfinder from owlcat games but to be honest since im a fan of Warhammer and consider Rogue trader one of my favorites CRPGs im hoping we get a Warhammer Fantasy CRPG or Dark Heresy Crpg in the future!
Great video!
While a Prestige class (and not the best one): The only missing class in Vanilla Pathfinder (1st edition): Arcane Archer
Only for Evles and half elves, gain 7 spell levels (at 2-4. 5-8 and 10). Needs an attack bonus about +6, needs to be able to cast arance spells of level 1 and 3 specific feats: Weapon focus for Long or shortbows, point blank shot and precise shot. The main ability is to improve arrows: At level 1 they get a + 1 (attack and damage), at level 3 they can infuse them with an element (+1d6 damage on that element, can only be changed after a long rest). At Level 5 they gain double range. At level 7 they improve the element dealing more damage on a crit (1d10 on normal weapons, weapons with *3 crit damage gain 2d10, with *4 3d10) and on Level 9 they can infuse them with their alignment to deal 2d6 bonus damage to creatures with the opposite alignment of that arrow.
They also gain other abilities on Level 2,4,6,8 and 10. At Level 2 they can use their bow to "shoot" an AOE Spell as a standard action (still uses the spell slot). With that they can use AOE where the caster is in the center, because now the location where the arrow hits is the center instead.
At level 4, as long if something is in range, they can shoot a target once per long rest, even if it is around a corner and concealed with their full attack roll and no miss chance. They can +1 use for every 2 additional Level, with 4 uses at Level 10.
At Level 6 they can shoot once per long rest through walls and ignore make a touch attack instead. Gains once more use for every 2 additional Level, with 3 uses at Level 10.
At Level 8 they can once per day they can instead of attacking normal, attack all enemies in range with their full attack roll. Every enemy can only get hot once.
At Level 10 (i will rework that here, so that it can work in a video game). Once very long rest they can shot an arrow of death. The Target has to make a toughness check that is 20 + Modifier of their caster Attribute (or Charisma, in the standard issue). If the Target fails that safe it will die.
They would be a really good class to dip into (at least until level 3), but most other rewards are not worth it in my eyes to get futher into that class, but the Level 2 Ability is really usefull, and if you you are an arcane caster who is using bows, the Level 3 one is not bad well and you only loose one caster Level.
Some of Neverwinter Nights 2 prestige classes are very cool but they have to reimplemented so that their class features and bonuses are compatible with WotR
I know you don't use mods but the Brawler is great in WOTR!
I might try that one on my next playthrough, I'm a big fan of the brawler on the tabletop. Also nice to see you here.
@@rb98769 Defintely worth it! Two best ones are the Wild Child (Pet Brawler) and the Mutagenic Mauler (like Mutation Warrior but with fists).
Mesmerist would have been a lot of fun. I enjoy classes with mental/psionic powers and stuff like that.
I really wish there was a true Warlock class, Kineticist just doesn't scratch the itch completely, it's not the same.
Pathfinder's "true Warlock" is an archetype of the Vigilante base class. Basically plays like a supervillain instead of its superhero parent class.
Mechanically its the Kinetisist, flavor wise its the witch (or Oracle).
Also, isn't Insinuator(aPala arch) quite Warlock like?
I think they did a pretty good job regarding classes and archetypes. Any more and it would have become overwhelming. :)
Artificer!!!! I know it wouldn't fit that well thematically, but if we can be whole dragons, lich kings, etc. we could have also brought a bit of low tech for our wannabe Tony Stark characters as well.
I played Kingmaker mit Summoner from The Call of the Wild mod, was fun
Summoner is my all-time favorite Pathfinder class
The summoner's eidolon isn't just a complicated model, but as a fully sentient creature they'd require alll that writing
Familiars are also sentient and intelligent. But I think they get ignored
@@icarue993 yeah but the difference is not many people mind that.
Like, imagine if the desna dragon companion had no dilogue in the whole game. Or if Wenduag was mute.
@@McFatson Neither Hag of Gyronna's night hag sidekick nor the Bladebound's black blade have any sort of dialogues despite being sentient. Or the Swarm's clones for that matter. Summoner wouldn't get any either I reckon.
@@McFatson The issue I see is that its YOUR eidolon. YOU set how it should behave, like your character. Which would be complicated to say the least.
Aivu (Desna Dragon) works because she is a character. She reacts as she would. How would your companion react is up to you, which is too open to program.
@@Schlumpsha nah man. Fully voiced, backstory origin, romance subplot available. I'll gladly let half this game's cast wallow in the shadow realm if I couls get me a fully fleshed out eidolon.
Was really hoping for Swashbuckler with the new classes added, mostly because it's the only class I've played in the only Pathfinder tabletop I've played, hahah. Hopefully if Owlcat does another TTRPG-based game, it's Starfinder - Was super hoping that was what Rogue Trader was going to be, alas.
The summoner was also infamously overpowered compared to several other base classes. It was very easy to make the multitrack eidolon that immediately outshined the fighter, at least for a while. The joke at my table was “I’m playing the eidolon. The summoner is a nice bonus.”
That's exactly my impression of it in Call of the Wild. Your char is just here to cast some buff, debuff, cc and the main star is the Eido itself. Not a big fan of such concepts tbh. If you want Summoner mech and something more useful / cool:
Primal Companion Hunter. That is nuts and very fun!
I would have loved if they included psionic classes and/or path of war classes.
Summoner would have been great. I'd like to have seen Gunslingers too. I suspect Gunslingers weren't added for the same reason as Ninja and Samurai, it didn't fit with Owlcats view of the module, such classes would have been stupid rare in the Crusades
I know it isn't a huge thing from 1e but I do think at least one of the other occult classes deserves a chance in the future. Spiritualist in particular is interesting to me, though who knows how well that really fits into a tailored experience as compared to a fairly open tabletop setting.
Call of the Wild!
Yep. It's probably not a coincidence that we only got the one occult class that has no spell casting feature.
craziest thing about Pathfinder, is that there are classes we didn't get in WoTR. Yeesh.
I think vigilante would have been extremely cool especially if owlcat made a companion with that class
I only really have 2 major issues, that they never added dlc races and that wild shape was lack luster as someone who primarily plays a druid with a focus on shapeshiftin both in games and the tabletop it was disappointin that they offered a limited selection. The classes were ok otherwise but some archetypes were either very samey or kinda pointless as opposed to others. Great game will certainly do more playthroughs just have my nit picks
the omdura might have rights issues, if i remember correctly it was made for a comic tie in
I think Antipaladin is the primary one I am surprised doesn't exist. It would have been perfect thematically, especially for a certain couple NPCs giving it usefulness even beyond a PC option.
Nobody has ever suggested, until now, that we should get rid of some of the class gloat. Really smart idea. They should consider this if they ever come back to Pathfinder
I have been waiting for the Summoner class to get this. I guess I will probably never get it now...
In which PF1 book can I find the Omdura?
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Niobe. It was a limited run crossover supplement book between the Niobe comic and Paizo during a past kickstarter.
Replacing the Paladin with the Champion in 2e was a good move, although it did take until the remaster to give it reasonable non-good options. Hilariously, I think even if we get 2e games, Summoner might still be two complex.
Summoners and a few other archetypes and classes got modded into Kingmaker. Here's hoping that'll eventually get ported into WotR.
there is a summoner mod for wotr, it's pretty cool. I believe it's called "making friends".
Personally, I wish they would have added all the classes from Occult Adventures, specifically:
Medium
Mesmerist
Occultist
Psychic
Spiritualist
Good thing at least they added Kineticist to the game from there.
I kind of doubt it's something you would want, but just in case.
It would be amazing if you could ask the developers questions about the game. A kind of interview.
I'm sure they love the game they made and would be happy to work with you considering what you've done to promote their game.
I really wanted swashbuckler
Note: Call of the Wild for Kingmaker has a metric ton of missing classes(no Mesmer and Swashbuckler, unfortunately ; Swash available in another mod, but that one requires ProperFlanking, so that is most likely a divisive topic) and it has by FAR better class, archetype etc balance.
I can't recommend Call of the Wild version of Kingmaker enough.
Summoner would have been my pick of the 5 listed, since I'm all about the Animal Companions, as they're like a 7th party member. Heck, the only reason I don't give everyone of the companions one is because that would be annoying to level them up, plus I like to let them have their 'canon' power sets.
But yeah, it's obvious that that one would be OP in this setup of an engine, given all the things you can do to it, and he only talks about mostly the martial side of things, the Eidelons can do a HUGE amount of other things, which would have been really annoying to implement for a single class feature.
Though Gunslinger would have been fun, too.
how are the changes to the companion pets compare to the older ones?
Pretty good, smoothed a lot of them out mostly, made an effort to make all them viable instead of everyone just picking smilodon, wolf, dog every time
@@MortismalGaming would love a new ranking and your thoughts on them.
Oh yeah, a summoner would definitely be on the top when it comes to classes I wish were in the game.
Personally, I liked the Spiritualist, Investigator and Occultist.
Very interesting video
Just because I love the fantasy and the mechanics and can't play pathfinder irl, I would have loved Investigator, Occultist & others classes from occult rule book.
Is there no gunslinger or gunpowder/engineer something close to Artifcer in Pathfinder?
1e has the Experimental Gunsmith racial archetype for Gunslinger gnomes. 2e has the Inventor class.
Watching all of your new WotR content makes me want to splurge and buy the season passes...
While summoner would've been cool, t could get complicated with the writing, seeing how an eidolon is their own person so to speak.
Everyone thinks about eidolon with summoners, but let me tell you. The actual summon spells they get access to are pretty strong
Master Summoner: ignore eidolon, brings 100 eagles
@@icarue993Master Summoner: DM(and everyone else) has left the table.
@@goransekulic3671 Yeap, its generally banned in most of the tables I played. I was the one to push the idea on new tables (a slight push, basically: just read it).
I can understand why they didn't put the Summoner in. It would have been very difficult to implement evolutions, especially with how they impact the appearance of the eidolons. They probably could have simplified it though, and have each different type of eidolon have it's own evolution path with perhaps some minor choices.
The really hard part would have been the Eidolons themselves. Unlike the animal companions, eidolons are intelligent, so they would have had to write a whole bunch of different companions for just one class. Which would have been a LOT of work.
It's a shame they didn't do it though, especially with how the eidolons could have interacted with the Mythic Paths. Unchained summoners get access to Aeon, Angel, Azata, Demon and Devil eidolons (amongst a variety of others). You could have some very interesting scenes if your eidolon was opposed to your mythic path.
Where can we watch your gamepaly videos of pathfunder wotr?
I did a live stream of the full game for a competition back when it launched
@@MortismalGaming you should make another channel with only walktrough where we can watch you 100% games.
Missed opportunities but maybe a possibility for the next Pathfinder game? :)
I really wish Summoner was in the game, with Synth Summoner as an archetype. My own Synth is stylized like a Power Ranger, and Gold Dragon would be a perfect Zord for him.
reminds me with Guild Wars 1 Mesmer
I played a summoner (forget the name of the archtype, essentially wore my eidolon, very cool) in a homebrew campaign for years, would have loved to play one here. Oh well, Owlcat, maybe next game... right?
Twinned Summoner: Check out Call of the Wild mod for Kingmaker!
Imagine a class that gets a domain, 6th level spells, simple, martial and heavy armor proficiency, and the ability to smite and use your wisdom modifiers with it. Nothing else. Do you think it'd be OP?
I thought with the introduction of the drunken master, they would have relaxed the alignment restrictions on the monk class. I was disappointed that a Drunken Master can't choose Cailen Cayden as their patron god. I never figured out why a monk has to be lawful. Your power comes from your training, not a patron of some sort.
Imagine if they added the Medium class, I can imagine the mess that would have been from a devs perspective lol
Summoner and gunslinger would have been nice to see (guns in general, since I’ve had a concept for a gun mage character inspired by the Iron Kingdoms that would have been an excellent fit for the ranged magus archetype rattling around in my head for awhile), and going back to a system based on 3.5 D&D reminded me of just how much the Paladin benefitted from D&D’s moving away from the alignment system.
Still, yeah, a ton of game in this game, so as you essentially said in your intro, complaining feels a bit silly ;)
Gunslinger or Swashbuckler would have been epic.
Surprised we didn't get the Thaumaturge.
I'm not sure, Mort. Going through the wiki, for the first time in my life, I think we may have enough classes.
44 seconds ago is crazy
Is the Omdura in Archives of Nethyrs?
No, it's from a paizo approved supplement book
Kinda wish they did adaptive shifter instead of wild effigy
I will pray to the mod gods for the summoner class to be made real.
If the next game is indeed in 2ed then instead we will get a chance to see Thaumaturge and Inventor and those might be a lot of fun to mess around with.
Who am I kidding, I'll play Wizards as I always do.
The psionic classes would have been cool, shame paizo never got around to them. Dread is cool beans and sonis the aegis
Pie in the sky, something with Psionics might have been a fun add, but on the other hand, the game didn't really need even more possible mechanics to engage with.
I heard behind these scenes it's not as much as it is hard to do certain things in Pathfinder, but that it was not exactly set up well and it's a nightmare to work with. Because if it was just possibility, then modders had proven time and time again thar you can add classes in Pathfinder games and it's possible. But modders are crazy people and they are not responsible for deadlines or keeping the whole game together by tape and good intentions.
They summon eidolons. They didn't want to argue with Square Enix. Sadly.
Curious why you dont think they will make another 1E pathfinder title? They have pretty much said that they dont like 2e?
I dont expect they'll get the okay to make another 1e title frankly
SUMMONER NUMBER ONE
I think Paizo sins by excess when it comes to classes. In 1e we had classes that turned other classes completely useless like the bloodrager with the barbarian and classes that fulfill a fantasy already could be fulfilled like the ninja with rogue
Agree
To be fair that's an issue inherited from 3.5e in general. Lots of bloat with useless feats, classes/variants, spells, prestige classes, and just about everything else. But Paizo certainly did go all into it as well even when they had a bit of hindsight about the system's weaknesses.
The released unchained classes did a lot to remedy many of these issues, but then Paizo just dropped PF1 before we could get them all and moved on to PF2.
would rather the bloat than 5e lack of choice, want class fantasy. Mounted cavalier/shield bash build strength mele build.
@@rb98769 they have 3 classes for the same function, arcanist, sorcerer, wizard, next is what, magician? with the difference is that now they use wisdom instead of charisma or intelligence, and then another mixture of those 4 with a slightly different mechanic that in the end its just the same... honestly I wouldnt mind if the fluff or lore made sense but it doesnt, its just generalizad fantasy lingo, it all loses coherence and meaning for me.
I prefer it, I get why some people dislike it, but I love the overwhelming choice of 3.X. I started pen and paper with 5e, and moved to 3.5 about two years ago, maybe one and some change. Couldn't be happier. But the great thing about TTRPGS, is there is something for everyone. 5e and PF2e still exists for those who like the modern game design, and I'll always have 3.X.
I need an in-depth video on how not to get a play through stuck in Act 3. 200+ hours and 3 characters all sitting around wondering what to do and how to use all the feats and equipment acquired.
I don't think I'd heard of the Omdura before this video, and given that my physical collection of Pathfinder 1E rules supplements is near complete, that's saying something.
So I did some digging. Turns out the Omdura is from a third party supplement, which is probably the exact reason it never made it to the video games. Well, that and it's apparently brokenly powerful, which is typical of 3rd party stuff.
Omdura is 1st party Paizo material, but not in Golarion like that vampire slayer class. It's also kinda bad.
From "Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Niobe ©2019, Paizo Inc.; Authors: Sebastian A. Jones, Darrell May, Joshua Cozine, and Luis Loza."
I'll say it, WOTR is horribly balanced class wise.
A great example is the monster tactician Inquisitor class, god help you if you are good aligned, cause it's summons are almost all lightning spamming monster from the mid tier onwards, good luck in a game with lightning immune demons everywhere.
And this isn't the only such example.
I feel like they didn't look at all at the classes from Kingmaker and just copy pasted them in.
Gronk!
Whats going on Mort, everybody here.