Also a very useful guide. I find all the non-ascended endings meh save for the Angel so this is essential! Also something you might not be aware of but if you play a female MC Areelu will talk about her daughter, basically the version of child closer to you, therefore reminding her of her child with respect to you, depending on whether you chose to play as a female or male, i.e. daughter or son.
I dunno, i like Dragon and Trickster. The former because it's basically "F you all, i'm doing what's right" and the latter because it's crazy enough to reverse Regill's bleaching.
@@ilejovcevski79 I don't like the legend ending because of how you go about becoming one, strikes me as... extremely cruel, once you know the context around what you are actually doing.
@@spellandshield It's explained in the ending slides of the true Trickster ending that when Regill hears of/finds out about your chaotic actions, he becomes so enraged that he reverses his Bleaching to some degree out of sheer will to stick around longer to bring order to your chaos, or something like that
I really love how the game enhances the pathfinder adventure path it was based on. They really modified the story for the better and tied it together much more tightly than the original.
@@Kepesk I've run it a half a dozen times. It's a great AP. I've pulled a lot of new NPCs and storyline from the game for the more recent times I've run it though. Owlcat did a great job with the adaptation.
You remind me how much credit Owlcat deserves for their writing/creativity. In the original AP Areelu was motivated purely by base revenge for being imprisoned for doing magic. Here Owlcat gives her this very fully fleshed out character in terms of motivation, and also leans much harder into her being a mad scientist who does experiments for actual knowledge versus primarily as torture. She's no less monstrous, but she's more compelling and even relatable in her motives if not her methods.
Very helpful guide for the secret ending and even better that it also gives context for why these choices and action matter to the secret ending. Thanks Mortismal, another great video.
A thing to mention about the trickster path is that there's a similar but different option to get a fresh crystal, which is by getting it through Socothbenoth her brother instead. This is achieved by not pranking her and instead telling her about it and then you end up fighting the council instead of her.
god i remember when i did this (it was one of those "no spoiler" guides which makes it worse), i think the reason so few people do it its because you will most likely know this is possible after the first playthrough and then depending on the source keeping track of all this is kinda stressful i really like how they make these secret endings though, they are actually mostly logical if you are paying attention and actually thinking about the story (kinda impossible on the first run though, which is fine)
@@karolduch1 No, Baphomet literally says in conversation there, if you don't pick essentially "fuck you, lemme out" that his daughters souls, like all his descendants, belong to him, and when they die their soul just goes where you are.
I gotta say though that even if it works, lore wise it shouldn't. Once you kill Baphomet and Deskari you have a year each before killing them the second time would not actually kill them permanently and allow you to take their realms. Anything past 4717 is almost 100% gonna be past that year mark.
@@MortismalGaming Probably lorewise. And depends when you finish act 4. I personally couldn't finish act 4, act 3 earlier so I didn't have time to finish act 5 in 4717 (april or march). Also depends if you finish act 4 before the date. If after the date, lorewise there is nothing to contradict doing it in 4718.
Very convoluted & cryptic way to get to the "secret" ending tbh. In fact it is so convoluted that I have even heard an opinion that conditions to meet are so "unfair" that a lot of people were apparently using some save editor tool to alter in-game date so it would unlock the ending (which apparently works). But what I absolutely love about WotR endings is that non of the ending is truly "the best" ending. Even the secret one, especially if you think about the consequences has a lot of downsides. I mean I was fine with ascending to Dragonhood. Why do I need to be a God or Demigod if I can quite literately become a "true" Dragon ? That is what I love about Pathfider. The amount of power level it gives you. No other D&D/Pathfider crpg did something like this. Maybe Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark came close, but it was nothing compared to WotR. The only flaw of Pathfinder I can think of is that it seems like it was rushed and many mythic paths are not as impactful as they should be. Mythic path imho should start way sooner & give you more choices at the early game, so that late game would become unique to the mythic patch u chose. Gold Dragon mythic path is a prime example as lore & story wise it is awesome, but all you really get is "some" dialogue options that alter stuff in a minimal way and Mechanic wise it is not unique as Dragon polymorphs are very easy to get from other sources. It seems like they added too many ideas into the game and as a result there are mythic paths that are clearly better than others. I do hope that in next Pathfider game, they will sort this mess out and not necessarily expand mythic paths, but polish them and give them greater meaning.
Compared to Rogue Trader, this is incredibly cryptic. Rogue Trader practically spells it out for you with quest markers and objectives. You're very unlikely to miss it, unless you're rushing the game.
I think Mythic Paths were probably a one-off, the Mythic ruleset was pretty niche in the Pathfinder TTRPG, and only ever appeared in the one Adventure Path. If Owlcat gets the opportunity to do more Pathfinder APs, though, it'd be cool to see what else they incorporate.
@@Vrathal I don't think it went over that well, which is why they didn't use it for any more. However, some mythic creatures show up in other AP. Baba Yaga for instance, is Mythic 10 in the Reign of Winter path.
I was disappointed they didn't have a convoluted path to the secret ending in Rogue Trader, I was fully prepared to have to jump through the most obscure hoops again but instead I just need to talk to a cogitator and make like 4 key choices and that was it.
I managed to get this ending on my first playtrought as an Aeon. It was quite interesting to figure out. Although I only ascended Areelu and myself, it was still an amazing achievement to do all these little things that at first may've seem insignificant. Owlcat really did an amazing job...
@@yoursonisold8743 This was a long time ago, but there is a certain research that you have to do in order to get the hint. Astronomer's "something" if my memory serves me correctly.
@@yoursonisold8743 It says "the third week of this specific month in this year the power of the worldwound is strongest" However I didn't find a real calender ingame so I had to look up one on the Internet.
I'd recommend staying away from online content on wrath while you play. The game is masterful at foreshadowing and there's always some new mystery that asks more questions after you've answered a previous one
@@Jereb343 nah don't worry about it. I've played through the game fully as all the act 1 mythic paths. Owlcat wrote well enough that whether you know what happens or not, it's equally well written. If you are playing for the first time, half of every sentence is forboding. If you know what happens already, the OTHER half is blatantly winking at you.
in games i tend to do and explore and pick up everything which accidentally tends to bring me close to secret endings but this specific time requirement is a total bs that i would never figure out
Specific time moments is one shitty aspect (they're mentioned after doing research), but specific dialogue options is beyond imaginable levels of bs :(
@@JustLoveHnS in pillars of eternity 2 there was a possible crew member that required to explore certain island only on specific DAY OF A MONTH and then choose specific conversation options and finish it with ensuring that character will survive battle at first time i did it on accident and when during second playthrough i was unable to repeat that then if not for crew list on wiki i would begin to question my mental state
@@JustLoveHnS I think the dialogue options required are quite fair in this case. It's mostly just being very curious and observant. The date is total BS though. I love how KC almost goes meta when she says "Yeah I came here on this specific day for a reason", even though before going to Threshold there is no way she has any idea about vital details necessary to connect that date to any kind of plan.
That would be a quite difficult thing to do. The "gods" on Eora were just amalgamations of Engwithian population that they created because there were no real gods to be found. On Golarion (and other planes) there are multiple of gods and even if you put Eora and Pillars after the end of the multiverse (when Groetus ends times), there should be a survivor deity (just as Pharasma was).
The only mythic path i purposely not take the secret ending is when i take the demon mythic path where i let nocticula become redeemer, taking the secret ending blocks that part of her ending.
Whenever I think about this ending I’m reminded why WOTR is my favorite RPG to date. There’s just so much insane depth and the writing is so tight and interesting. Great video coverage as always king, appreciate your hard work
Now i'm wondering if my third playthrough should be a Legend MP, or the secret ending playthrough. So many plans burned along with the discovery of this ending, and so many are still yet to burn.
Regarding True Aeon, if you do the work for the secret ending and do a save before the last rift, you can essentially do both. Plus True Aeon can recover the knife if destroyed.
Is there a lore reason why you have to beat the game before a certain date? I played through the game and I don't remember much of anything being related to a calendar date like that
Explained the why at the end. Those are the days the worldwound is at the height of it's power which you need to channel through the crystals to perform the ascension properly.
Thanks for the video. Kind of invites the question of which is more impressive: the maze builder, or the maze master. I kid. Onward to 400k. All glory to the algorithm.
I gotta say though that even if it works, lore wise it shouldn't. Once you kill Baphomet and Deskari you have a year each before killing them the second time would not actually kill them permanently and allow you to take their realms. Anything past 4717 is almost 100% gonna be past that year mark.
@@MortismalGaming shouldn't work on baphomet, but you kill deskari right before threshold. Could also just say Nocticula killed him again, since she declared war on both of them.
Have they ever fixed the Research Projects descriptions that failed to display what was supposed to be important clues for unlocking the secret ending?
You should always be able to tell what you missed by where the conversation with Areelu stops if you messed something up (you didnt convince her you are like her child, or didnt present all the research etc)
Damn, I think I took the protection spell on my Azata run, and definitely didn't catch the alchemist fire thing during the gargoyle scene, maybe I'll do it for my Trickster run.
My first playthrough was blind, and I managed to meet every condition for this aside from saving suture in areelus lab, I just assumed “demon wants power book, so bad”, and killed him there lol. Whoops
It's funny, because he doesnt try to take the book at all if you treated him normally. He is specifically tasked to lead you to it and give it to you, so I never understood how it could come to that.
@@yoursonisold8743 yeah if I recall it’s because I was like “nah I don’t want this book from the evil witch lady” and so he was like “well…if that’s the case…can I have it” and my response was like lol I’m not making another enemy to fight, and killed him there
i wasted the midnight bolts when I got them and so dont have enough in act 4 to get the secret ending now that I know about it. Oh well, I also dont have another 200 hours to play through again just to get it. Good thing youtube is here for the rescue.
One thing, and it is not 100% clear but I don't think you simply ascend to demigod. I would say it's a full deity like Iomadae, just a different method. The main reason that makes me think this, is that Pharasma completely stops interfering once you do. Because deities will only interfere with other deities if it is extremely necessary. Plus if you ascend with Areelu, it's implied that Pharasma can not do anything about either of you at that very moment. And since she is a full deity, if you were only a demigod, that wouldn't be a problem.
I'm 99% sure Areelu specifically says you become a demigod, and it makes sense because the demon princes are on that level and you ascended by grabbing their power. The ending where you save Areelu from Pharasma is weird in any case - even a full deity shouldn't be able to contest Pharasma in her own realm since she's one of the strongest beings in the multiverse
Grabbing multiple points of power from demon lords though, i would say youre on a path to a greater power than jusy demigod considering youre combining them all. @exantiuse497
It's not THAT out there tbh. A lot of the confusion is because there was supposed to be hints in-game, via the crusade projects, on what you're supposed to do, but they were unobtainable on launch, and also some of the triggers for the final dialogue were bugged which made it harder than it was supposed to be. It's not that cryptic now
It's actually completely logical, you're just not supposed to get it first time. But when you beat the game for the first time you should already know how to get the secret ending the second time because all the notes and books and projects tell you. I think saving Suture's the only part there's no clues for.
@@acrab6527 I'd argue if you are interested in everything related to Areelu (which anyone getting the Secret Edning "naturally" should be), you would not try to kill her minion who is actually being rather helpful.
@@yoursonisold8743 yeah but you have to not only "not kill him" but also "free him from the nexus" "free him from slavery" and "notice he's following Areelu invisible every time you see her"
@@acrab6527 You get main quests at the Fleshmarket. Seeing that he is being enslaved is incredibly hard to miss as the game directly tells you if you talk to the slaver. If the game gives you an option to buy his freedfom for money that is a pretty big hint that this will have an effect. Though to be honest, if you don't slaughter the entire slave market I would consider you a weirdo. Noticing him with Areelu just requires high perception. A trait you should always level no matter what playthrough you do.
Idk why everyone hates that the secret ending is so convoluted. It kinda makes sense for it to be. If you managed to do all of this perfectly then like ya…maybe you are her son reincarnated. Like idk I think it’s cool story wise.
Really helpful video, for people who don't know 🙂 I skipped this quest knowingly on my playthrough, because I'd never cooperate with the person who was responsible for all the misery in this game. So yeah, no achievement for me. 🙂
Just a note, depending on if you have the midnight isles dlc and if you follow trickster, it's possible to get 8 total crystals. So it is possible to fight Deskari and Bahomet at the end and not need their crystals in order to have everyone ascend as you'll have 6 crystals before that point. Another thing, if you ascend, Nocticula will not become the redeemer queen. If you let her have Baphomet's first crystal and don't ascend (so going legend or other path that doesn't ascend), she will ascend to the redeemer queen.
You don't need to let her get Baphomet's crystal for her to ascend. She will become Redeemer Queen as long as you did Ember's side-quest and let her talk to Nocticula (and you don't ascend yourself of course). In the original lore Nocticula didn't need any kind of ritual to ascend, she was powerful enough and just needed to reject her demon nature. The explanation for why she doesnt ascend in the game if you do it is because the Worldwound is technically not closed and she becomes paranoid about an invasion.
@@yoursonisold8743 Either I ran into a bug or that's not true, because I've had Ember talk to her and did Ember's full side quest on several different runs and every time I ascended, Nocticula did not even though Ember's quest was successfully completed in the good method. The only time Nocticula ascended was when I did not ascend.
@@csdn4483 Yeah... read my post again? I just told you, _you_ can't ascend. And I even told you the explanation why. I was just correcting you on the crystal. Nocticula does not need it. Trust me, I picked up all the crystals I could get, but if you don't ascend, Nocticula will, as long as you did the Ember quest.
I will miss it because I have only time to play such big games once and not gonna spoil myself here. But I remembering missing the secret ending in kingmaker just because I killed two bosses in the wrong order and choose the wrong NPC romance. I assume here it is the same, no way to achieve it blindly. On the one hand I don't like secret endings that are behind such a specific path. On the other hand in kingmaker the other endings where rewarding enough that I did not have the feel, to missed the "best" ending.
Just got the secret ending last night and can confirm the year does not matter. I wasted a lot of time seeing what kind of crusade events might happen. Don't judge me, I'm a demi-god.
I lost the purple knife in my first playthrough and still got the ending. I don't blame Morti from blocking enigma from his memory :D but there is another crystal there.
@@MortismalGaming It's fine as a one-time experience at least. And remember, party members who don't finish their personal questline don't ascend, so if you want demigod Nenio to terrorize women with dead rats you need to free her from Areshkagal at least on your Secret Ending run anyway.
Got this one once, never again. She doesn't deserve to think she might be right. Plus, the oddity that none of my friends seem to think it's cool to get god-like power.
For some reason Regill of all people was the only one of my companions who seemed to think it was a good idea! Weird. I kinda wish there had been more of an impact on ending slides. Surely as a god Lann would not be limited by mongrel lifespan and do a bit more with his time, just as an example.
Why its not cool? And why Areelu not right? She thought - first - to be free from gods authority - you must be powerful enough, so you must become a godlike himself. Seems logical. Second - she found the way how to do this. And in this ending - she actually succeed. She became powerful, became free, save her child. Might - is right...Simple.
Personally, i prefer being a Gold Dragon. Though they seem to have forgotten the whole "the worldwound will eventually kill you" on that one and it just doesn't for no explained reason.
Good video, even tho i already completed this ending multiple times it's great someone somewhat popular is making a guide on it. Because the only one who made a yt guide on it so far is slandered gaming
The conversation with Areelu at the end is the biggest source of in game hints, but I believe data mining revealed the last few pieces people were missing when it first launched.
Does it really matter at the beginning of the game when you have to choose between the scroll and the crossbow? I mean if you choose the scroll, Areelu and the Suture will still fire the midnight bolt on Deskari, so you will still find the purple knive and the midnightbolt on market square. Actually nothing changes, but if you chose the scroll the tutorial is a bit easier, because you have the false life buff.
Its one of 7 things you can do to show Areelu you are like her child of which you are required to do 5 of them. So I mean technically, no you dont have too, but it is by far the easiest of the required interactions.
huh... I think on one of my playthroughs I almost got the secret ending by accident :D but I never looked at the date I entered threshold. okay... soooo one more playthrough
I gotta say though that even if it works, lore wise it shouldn't. Once you kill Baphomet and Deskari you have a year each before killing them the second time would not actually kill them permanently and allow you to take their realms. Anything past 4717 is almost 100% gonna be past that year mark.
I want to take a stab at this but I'm struggling through an unfair run right now. Any tips on how to not pull my hair out?? Made it to siege of drezen before starting a new character last attempt
@@leqeque7383 It's Pathfinder lore. Mortals who became gods like Aroden and Iomedae had to do the Star Stone trials to ascend. And yes, the game mentions these several times.
Thanks for the guide! I find the path to get the secret ending way too convoluted. I really don't like the secret perception checks! I had a character optimised for perception (high wisdom, inquisitor...) and still failed the Nura checks! When I heard about them, it was too late, I didn't want to go back...
Recruit a mage general because damaging spells are OP, also don't fight battles where you're bound to exceed the infirmary bar. Infirmary bar increases with general levels, feats and buildings. Do rank up decrees ASAP to unlock better units. Alternatively turn down the crusade battle difficulty because the crusader mode is not that well made and honestly quite boring.
I recommend making the first 3 out of the 4 forts into eco set ups, then doing the troop buildings in later forts. Mage gen Stack of Archers, the ones you get at the start, I upgrade them into snipers. Clerics, buy them from mercs. Footmen, buy them from the start, upgrade into champions, if you get a big stack, they do massive damage later. Cav unit, have a few options, hellknights are something you can get access to early so easy to stack. Only buy and stack those 4 units from act 2 into 3. I buy a 2nd mage gen in act 3 that holds trash units, they are there for when armies march against you and your main is far away.
Honestly, I could not care less about the secret ending since the regular "Legend" ending fit my role-play purposes just fine. Similar in Kingmaker, I did not fight the final boss - when he wanted to make a certain deal in the end, I was "Yea, sure, go for it, I'm not going to bet my odds against you for such a measly gain". Of course, it's fine that such endings exist, but the issue is I am not a fan of the whole "fate" concept in games. Furthermore, the absurd requirements to unlock them are more tedious and a chore than fun. Since these games are also bugged like hell in their release state, the sheer thought of having to redo 70% of my playthrough due to something potentially not registering correctly is absolutely horrible as a concept. In its current state, these seem like bait for completionists and I think Owlcat should rethink their approach to them. I am fine with very strict and detailed requirements, as long as they are not overly grindy on the experience, or at the very least, more concentrated only in the final chapter, giving more flexibility.
Don't you also have to keep the bracers from Areelu on you? I didn't see that mentioned in this video but they represent the promise she made to bring her child back.
There are several secret dialogue lines based on what equipment you have and how many artifacts you restore with the Storyteller, but none of them are vital for the ending. However, they are almost all related to Areelu (obvious exceptions are Terendelev's scale, Finnean the talking sword and the masks from the Enigma questline). The Bracers you get from the start, which she will comment on in Act 4 ("So you kept them, I made them to keep you safe"). Even though she is clearly pleased it doesn't raise her child resemblance counter. If you restore Areelu's cloak and have it with you, then you can actually start an entire dialogue tree about it in Act 5 during your conversation in Iz. She goes into detail how the cloak doesnt prevent her from dying from the wound that her Transformation gave her and that the goddess it is related to might not be powerful enough to close it. The Stern Gauntlets or whatever they are called are directly related to the ghost of the Inquisitor who imprisoned Areelu who you can talk to about it in the secret lab. The Elemental ring you can reforge belonged to the mage who betrayed Areelu and whose ghost you can also talk to in the lab and he says he believes you are worthy of doing good with it, so you should keep it. The only item that is relevant for the secret ending are a pair of gloves you can get in the secret lab if you inspect objects in the right order. But you dont actually need to keep the gloves, Areelu was observing you in the lab anyway and just needed to know that you went for the gloves first, just like her child. You can mention it to her and it will add to the child resemblance counter. I bet there are even more hidden equipment specific lines.
Tried it on my second play-through. Despite following a guide, I missed something as it's not triggering the extra dialogue in final confrontation. Such a bummer after so many hours.
If you don't mind using mods, you can use toybox to fix the thing you missed and still get the ending. As long as you have a save before the last fight, you can do the fix right there.
The portrait for Nocticula does not look like the default game portraits. What is the source or how did you change it. I know how to add custom portraits to my character and how to change them for companions by editing the save file. How to change for NPCs?
I always thought Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous are super cool for rewarding players who read and engage in absolutely everything in the game The secret ending seems like a super reward for these kind of players and I couldn't imagine finding this out of my own
People didn't find it out, they used registry keys and data mining to discover it. Without these strategies it might still be a mystery, because the game isn't jotting down that info for you or keeping track of it.
The thing that continually puts me off this game is how the mechanics work. I started DnD with 5e and everytime I have the feeling I finally get how this works, suddenly there's a bizarre rule that I didn't know that seems to make my character useless. I really ran out of patience.
@@Khindrex That sucks and all, but not every game is for everyone. 5e is infinitely more popular for a reason, no sense in driving yourself crazy over a ruleset you clearly don't care for.
The thought of someone missing the window and waiting an entire in game year is CRAZY 😭
Please do a story explained on this game! You must know it like the back of your hand.
He’s working on that
It'll come out relatively soon
This
I could see this game being turned into a few movies. The story was incredible.
He said he was in the first lines of the video
Also a very useful guide. I find all the non-ascended endings meh save for the Angel so this is essential! Also something you might not be aware of but if you play a female MC Areelu will talk about her daughter, basically the version of child closer to you, therefore reminding her of her child with respect to you, depending on whether you chose to play as a female or male, i.e. daughter or son.
I dunno, i like Dragon and Trickster. The former because it's basically "F you all, i'm doing what's right" and the latter because it's crazy enough to reverse Regill's bleaching.
@@ilejovcevski79 I don't like the legend ending because of how you go about becoming one, strikes me as... extremely cruel, once you know the context around what you are actually doing.
I had wondered about that - if I played a female character, if the son would be a daughter.
@@Llortnerof Wait, you can reverse Regill's Bleaching as a Trickster?
@@spellandshield It's explained in the ending slides of the true Trickster ending that when Regill hears of/finds out about your chaotic actions, he becomes so enraged that he reverses his Bleaching to some degree out of sheer will to stick around longer to bring order to your chaos, or something like that
I really love how the game enhances the pathfinder adventure path it was based on. They really modified the story for the better and tied it together much more tightly than the original.
I've never played the AP, but I've heard it was good. I've also heard this game makes the story much better in a few ways.
@@Kepesk I've run it a half a dozen times. It's a great AP. I've pulled a lot of new NPCs and storyline from the game for the more recent times I've run it though. Owlcat did a great job with the adaptation.
I think they made Areelu much much better. she was just an evil scientist in the adventure path
You remind me how much credit Owlcat deserves for their writing/creativity. In the original AP Areelu was motivated purely by base revenge for being imprisoned for doing magic. Here Owlcat gives her this very fully fleshed out character in terms of motivation, and also leans much harder into her being a mad scientist who does experiments for actual knowledge versus primarily as torture. She's no less monstrous, but she's more compelling and even relatable in her motives if not her methods.
most straight forward pathfinder playthrough
Very helpful guide for the secret ending and even better that it also gives context for why these choices and action matter to the secret ending. Thanks Mortismal, another great video.
A thing to mention about the trickster path is that there's a similar but different option to get a fresh crystal, which is by getting it through Socothbenoth her brother instead. This is achieved by not pranking her and instead telling her about it and then you end up fighting the council instead of her.
god i remember when i did this (it was one of those "no spoiler" guides which makes it worse), i think the reason so few people do it its because you will most likely know this is possible after the first playthrough and then depending on the source keeping track of all this is kinda stressful
i really like how they make these secret endings though, they are actually mostly logical if you are paying attention and actually thinking about the story (kinda impossible on the first run though, which is fine)
Talking to ghost Hepzamirah requires luck or priori game knowledge.
@@karolduch1 Or being very OCD about “no part of the map goes unexplored!”
The old Doom was a great way to make people obsessive about exploring. 🤪
@@kingleech16 she only shows herself after area boss is dead, so exploring whole map doesn't help
@@karolduch1 You do get a hint about a presence if you go there though.
@@karolduch1 No, Baphomet literally says in conversation there, if you don't pick essentially "fuck you, lemme out" that his daughters souls, like all his descendants, belong to him, and when they die their soul just goes where you are.
God the amount of content WotR has is just mind boggeling.
Thank you, this was really useful and a lot more clear than any of the other guides I've seen for this
I did test it out, the year doesn't matter just the day and month.
Me too didn't managed to reach the year date. Had to wait another year to do the secret ending.
I gotta say though that even if it works, lore wise it shouldn't. Once you kill Baphomet and Deskari you have a year each before killing them the second time would not actually kill them permanently and allow you to take their realms. Anything past 4717 is almost 100% gonna be past that year mark.
@@MortismalGaming Probably lorewise. And depends when you finish act 4. I personally couldn't finish act 4, act 3 earlier so I didn't have time to finish act 5 in 4717 (april or march).
Also depends if you finish act 4 before the date. If after the date, lorewise there is nothing to contradict doing it in 4718.
Very convoluted & cryptic way to get to the "secret" ending tbh. In fact it is so convoluted that I have even heard an opinion that conditions to meet are so "unfair" that a lot of people were apparently using some save editor tool to alter in-game date so it would unlock the ending (which apparently works). But what I absolutely love about WotR endings is that non of the ending is truly "the best" ending. Even the secret one, especially if you think about the consequences has a lot of downsides. I mean I was fine with ascending to Dragonhood. Why do I need to be a God or Demigod if I can quite literately become a "true" Dragon ? That is what I love about Pathfider. The amount of power level it gives you. No other D&D/Pathfider crpg did something like this. Maybe Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark came close, but it was nothing compared to WotR.
The only flaw of Pathfinder I can think of is that it seems like it was rushed and many mythic paths are not as impactful as they should be. Mythic path imho should start way sooner & give you more choices at the early game, so that late game would become unique to the mythic patch u chose. Gold Dragon mythic path is a prime example as lore & story wise it is awesome, but all you really get is "some" dialogue options that alter stuff in a minimal way and Mechanic wise it is not unique as Dragon polymorphs are very easy to get from other sources. It seems like they added too many ideas into the game and as a result there are mythic paths that are clearly better than others.
I do hope that in next Pathfider game, they will sort this mess out and not necessarily expand mythic paths, but polish them and give them greater meaning.
thats just what owlcat are doing.
It was the same in kingmaker
Compared to Rogue Trader, this is incredibly cryptic.
Rogue Trader practically spells it out for you with quest markers and objectives. You're very unlikely to miss it, unless you're rushing the game.
I think Mythic Paths were probably a one-off, the Mythic ruleset was pretty niche in the Pathfinder TTRPG, and only ever appeared in the one Adventure Path. If Owlcat gets the opportunity to do more Pathfinder APs, though, it'd be cool to see what else they incorporate.
@@Vrathal I don't think it went over that well, which is why they didn't use it for any more. However, some mythic creatures show up in other AP. Baba Yaga for instance, is Mythic 10 in the Reign of Winter path.
Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer would be my bet over Hordes. Both are Epic level play, so your milage may vary.
Most interesting ending and really great culmination of whole story, especially as demon...
I was disappointed they didn't have a convoluted path to the secret ending in Rogue Trader, I was fully prepared to have to jump through the most obscure hoops again but instead I just need to talk to a cogitator and make like 4 key choices and that was it.
Yeah I was surprised the secret ending there is essentially just a side quest.
They know their audience, 40k players are not fans of subtlety!
I enjoyed the tidbits of lore you get along the way more than the actual ending itself. Worth doing once for that alone despite the headache.
I managed to get this ending on my first playtrought as an Aeon. It was quite interesting to figure out. Although I only ascended Areelu and myself, it was still an amazing achievement to do all these little things that at first may've seem insignificant. Owlcat really did an amazing job...
Tell me, how or why did you think to go to the final dungeon on that specific date? Unless you just used a guide of course.
@@yoursonisold8743 This was a long time ago, but there is a certain research that you have to do in order to get the hint. Astronomer's "something" if my memory serves me correctly.
@@stefeeNRG Yes, the research you get from Pulara's Fall. However, it doesnt state a day as far as I am aware. Only the year.
@@yoursonisold8743 ut was updated in a patch a while ago, it now gives you a proper date
@@yoursonisold8743 It says "the third week of this specific month in this year the power of the worldwound is strongest" However I didn't find a real calender ingame so I had to look up one on the Internet.
I just bought Wrath of the Righteous on your recommendation. Love your channel!
Oh ur gonna love it , enjoy
I'd recommend staying away from online content on wrath while you play. The game is masterful at foreshadowing and there's always some new mystery that asks more questions after you've answered a previous one
@@Jereb343 especially on Nenio's / other puzzle quests lol ))
@@Jereb343 yeah dude, i also love the feeling when I accidentally misses a flag and a quest just gets ruined.
@@Jereb343 nah don't worry about it. I've played through the game fully as all the act 1 mythic paths. Owlcat wrote well enough that whether you know what happens or not, it's equally well written.
If you are playing for the first time, half of every sentence is forboding. If you know what happens already, the OTHER half is blatantly winking at you.
I love this game, and this channel.
in games i tend to do and explore and pick up everything which accidentally tends to bring me close to secret endings but this specific time requirement is a total bs that i would never figure out
Specific time moments is one shitty aspect (they're mentioned after doing research), but specific dialogue options is beyond imaginable levels of bs :(
@@JustLoveHnS in pillars of eternity 2 there was a possible crew member that required to explore certain island only on specific DAY OF A MONTH and then choose specific conversation options and finish it with ensuring that character will survive battle
at first time i did it on accident and when during second playthrough i was unable to repeat that then if not for crew list on wiki i would begin to question my mental state
@@JustLoveHnS I think the dialogue options required are quite fair in this case. It's mostly just being very curious and observant. The date is total BS though. I love how KC almost goes meta when she says "Yeah I came here on this specific day for a reason", even though before going to Threshold there is no way she has any idea about vital details necessary to connect that date to any kind of plan.
I was thinking about the Blood Lords suggestion. It would be tricky to link them all up but it definitely would be cool.
My personal headcannon is that wrath of the righteous is secretly a very long prequel to pillars of eternity
That would be a quite difficult thing to do. The "gods" on Eora were just amalgamations of Engwithian population that they created because there were no real gods to be found. On Golarion (and other planes) there are multiple of gods and even if you put Eora and Pillars after the end of the multiverse (when Groetus ends times), there should be a survivor deity (just as Pharasma was).
Thank you for this, I just barely beat Baphomet and didn't use a midnight bolt. It made me reload my save and get the crystal.
Thanks, getting this ending is a pain in the ass and I didn't find any clear, straightforward guides.
Thanks for this video! Currently doing an Angel playthrough trying to achieve the secret ending.
I actually got this secret ending on my first playthrough. I had also taken the Gold Dragon path.
The only mythic path i purposely not take the secret ending is when i take the demon mythic path where i let nocticula become redeemer, taking the secret ending blocks that part of her ending.
I like the fact I slept with her and she came and saved me from judgement.
Thanks for this video. Information on this ending is convoluted and sometimes wrong when I've looked it up in the past.
Thank you very much for the effort you put into this.
Whenever I think about this ending I’m reminded why WOTR is my favorite RPG to date. There’s just so much insane depth and the writing is so tight and interesting. Great video coverage as always king, appreciate your hard work
Now i'm wondering if my third playthrough should be a Legend MP, or the secret ending playthrough.
So many plans burned along with the discovery of this ending, and so many are still yet to burn.
Man , when some1 make a GREAT game , i re- play it like 10 times now , dont know is rogue trader this good
Many thanks! I downloaded a save just to see it but interesting to learn what needs to be done to get it myself.
Very useful, thanks Mort. Gonna try this soonish.
Regarding True Aeon, if you do the work for the secret ending and do a save before the last rift, you can essentially do both. Plus True Aeon can recover the knife if destroyed.
Love your videos mort, i wish you make a video where you rank your favorite levels.
The one advantage with having a horrible memory is I won't remember any of this by the time I get around to playing this
i know this is a gaming channel, but have you read any Pathfinder novels? some of them are fun and, as you know, the lore is amazing :)
Not the novels really, I keep up with the Adventure Paths though
excellent! i just started a new playthrough, so this is perfect!
Is there a lore reason why you have to beat the game before a certain date? I played through the game and I don't remember much of anything being related to a calendar date like that
Explained the why at the end. Those are the days the worldwound is at the height of it's power which you need to channel through the crystals to perform the ascension properly.
Hey, i think you are a really good person. Love your videos. Regards from Mexico.
Thanks for the video. Kind of invites the question of which is more impressive: the maze builder, or the maze master. I kid. Onward to 400k. All glory to the algorithm.
I've done the secret ending but this is the best I've seen it laid out. It's def the best ending
I’m saving this one for later
Can’t watch this yet because spoilers seem inevitable but if I need this after a few playthroughs I’ll watch it anyway for sure
Looking forward to the story recap. I don't remember any of this. I just latched onto characters, but not so much the story.
Yes Mort. any year works as long as it is done on 16-21st of Gozran ANY Year ! I did it myself in 4718. Regards
I gotta say though that even if it works, lore wise it shouldn't. Once you kill Baphomet and Deskari you have a year each before killing them the second time would not actually kill them permanently and allow you to take their realms. Anything past 4717 is almost 100% gonna be past that year mark.
@@MortismalGaming shouldn't work on baphomet, but you kill deskari right before threshold.
Could also just say Nocticula killed him again, since she declared war on both of them.
Thanks for this, my third playtrough will be aimed to achive this ending (just after i finish my second playtrough of kingmaker) 😂
Brroooooo, where was this video two days ago when I picked the wrong option 40 hours in and didn't notice. :(
Also, great video, thanks!
Have they ever fixed the Research Projects descriptions that failed to display what was supposed to be important clues for unlocking the secret ending?
Yes, that was fixed many patches ago.
Great, I literally just finished my run with secret ending as a demon. LOL
Still a good guide!
Hell has its laws. Effects and their cause.
thx man. i ll try another run to get the secret ending... sometime...... maybe 32 feb...,
RUclips jazz to celebrate a well constructed guide 🎶
Awesome thank you this is a huge help now the last dlc is out
Now that's content!
I don't understand how people might not like the crusade mode. It's the best part of the game
Thank you very much for making this video. Just yesterday i failed the secret ending and have 0 idea at which point i fucked it up.
You should always be able to tell what you missed by where the conversation with Areelu stops if you messed something up (you didnt convince her you are like her child, or didnt present all the research etc)
I’ve achieved the secret ending, and I still learned a few things
Damn, I think I took the protection spell on my Azata run, and definitely didn't catch the alchemist fire thing during the gargoyle scene, maybe I'll do it for my Trickster run.
My first playthrough was blind, and I managed to meet every condition for this aside from saving suture in areelus lab, I just assumed “demon wants power book, so bad”, and killed him there lol. Whoops
It's funny, because he doesnt try to take the book at all if you treated him normally. He is specifically tasked to lead you to it and give it to you, so I never understood how it could come to that.
@@yoursonisold8743 yeah if I recall it’s because I was like “nah I don’t want this book from the evil witch lady” and so he was like “well…if that’s the case…can I have it” and my response was like lol I’m not making another enemy to fight, and killed him there
Gonna do this for my third playthrough (650 hours in the game already)
i wasted the midnight bolts when I got them and so dont have enough in act 4 to get the secret ending now that I know about it. Oh well, I also dont have another 200 hours to play through again just to get it. Good thing youtube is here for the rescue.
There are Midnight Bolts past Act 4. You only need a single one to get this ending.
Oh no... I've locked myself out. I used the midnight arrows
One thing, and it is not 100% clear but I don't think you simply ascend to demigod. I would say it's a full deity like Iomadae, just a different method. The main reason that makes me think this, is that Pharasma completely stops interfering once you do. Because deities will only interfere with other deities if it is extremely necessary. Plus if you ascend with Areelu, it's implied that Pharasma can not do anything about either of you at that very moment. And since she is a full deity, if you were only a demigod, that wouldn't be a problem.
I'm 99% sure Areelu specifically says you become a demigod, and it makes sense because the demon princes are on that level and you ascended by grabbing their power. The ending where you save Areelu from Pharasma is weird in any case - even a full deity shouldn't be able to contest Pharasma in her own realm since she's one of the strongest beings in the multiverse
Grabbing multiple points of power from demon lords though, i would say youre on a path to a greater power than jusy demigod considering youre combining them all. @exantiuse497
@@exantiuse497 I don't really remember her saying that tbh. But if she did, alright. Still, we can do what Nocticula did after the fact.
You can see in this video that it specifies demigod in game, and even the achievement for doing it says demigod.
Owlcat must have been adventure game developers in a past life since there's so much moon logic required to get this ending
It's not THAT out there tbh. A lot of the confusion is because there was supposed to be hints in-game, via the crusade projects, on what you're supposed to do, but they were unobtainable on launch, and also some of the triggers for the final dialogue were bugged which made it harder than it was supposed to be. It's not that cryptic now
It's actually completely logical, you're just not supposed to get it first time. But when you beat the game for the first time you should already know how to get the secret ending the second time because all the notes and books and projects tell you.
I think saving Suture's the only part there's no clues for.
@@acrab6527 I'd argue if you are interested in everything related to Areelu (which anyone getting the Secret Edning "naturally" should be), you would not try to kill her minion who is actually being rather helpful.
@@yoursonisold8743 yeah but you have to not only "not kill him" but also "free him from the nexus" "free him from slavery" and "notice he's following Areelu invisible every time you see her"
@@acrab6527 You get main quests at the Fleshmarket. Seeing that he is being enslaved is incredibly hard to miss as the game directly tells you if you talk to the slaver. If the game gives you an option to buy his freedfom for money that is a pretty big hint that this will have an effect. Though to be honest, if you don't slaughter the entire slave market I would consider you a weirdo.
Noticing him with Areelu just requires high perception. A trait you should always level no matter what playthrough you do.
Idk why everyone hates that the secret ending is so convoluted. It kinda makes sense for it to be. If you managed to do all of this perfectly then like ya…maybe you are her son reincarnated. Like idk I think it’s cool story wise.
Really helpful video, for people who don't know 🙂
I skipped this quest knowingly on my playthrough, because I'd never cooperate with the person who was responsible for all the misery in this game. So yeah, no achievement for me. 🙂
You can ascend without taking Areelu with you. She can die and go to face Phrasma's judgement like any other playthrough
I think ascending and just letting her face Pharasma is appropriate.
Just a note, depending on if you have the midnight isles dlc and if you follow trickster, it's possible to get 8 total crystals. So it is possible to fight Deskari and Bahomet at the end and not need their crystals in order to have everyone ascend as you'll have 6 crystals before that point.
Another thing, if you ascend, Nocticula will not become the redeemer queen. If you let her have Baphomet's first crystal and don't ascend (so going legend or other path that doesn't ascend), she will ascend to the redeemer queen.
You don't need to let her get Baphomet's crystal for her to ascend. She will become Redeemer Queen as long as you did Ember's side-quest and let her talk to Nocticula (and you don't ascend yourself of course).
In the original lore Nocticula didn't need any kind of ritual to ascend, she was powerful enough and just needed to reject her demon nature. The explanation for why she doesnt ascend in the game if you do it is because the Worldwound is technically not closed and she becomes paranoid about an invasion.
@@yoursonisold8743 Either I ran into a bug or that's not true, because I've had Ember talk to her and did Ember's full side quest on several different runs and every time I ascended, Nocticula did not even though Ember's quest was successfully completed in the good method. The only time Nocticula ascended was when I did not ascend.
@@csdn4483 Yeah... read my post again? I just told you, _you_ can't ascend. And I even told you the explanation why.
I was just correcting you on the crystal. Nocticula does not need it. Trust me, I picked up all the crystals I could get, but if you don't ascend, Nocticula will, as long as you did the Ember quest.
I will miss it because I have only time to play such big games once and not gonna spoil myself here. But I remembering missing the secret ending in kingmaker just because I killed two bosses in the wrong order and choose the wrong NPC romance. I assume here it is the same, no way to achieve it blindly. On the one hand I don't like secret endings that are behind such a specific path. On the other hand in kingmaker the other endings where rewarding enough that I did not have the feel, to missed the "best" ending.
Imagine if Mortismal simply didn't know the secret ending even existed and made this video in realizing multible years later.
Just got the secret ending last night and can confirm the year does not matter. I wasted a lot of time seeing what kind of crusade events might happen. Don't judge me, I'm a demi-god.
I lost the purple knife in my first playthrough and still got the ending. I don't blame Morti from blocking enigma from his memory :D but there is another crystal there.
I said you could find others via side content which was referring to Enigma, but I can not in good faith ever recommend anyone do that dungeon.
@@MortismalGaming It's fine as a one-time experience at least. And remember, party members who don't finish their personal questline don't ascend, so if you want demigod Nenio to terrorize women with dead rats you need to free her from Areshkagal at least on your Secret Ending run anyway.
Got this one once, never again. She doesn't deserve to think she might be right. Plus, the oddity that none of my friends seem to think it's cool to get god-like power.
For some reason Regill of all people was the only one of my companions who seemed to think it was a good idea! Weird.
I kinda wish there had been more of an impact on ending slides. Surely as a god Lann would not be limited by mongrel lifespan and do a bit more with his time, just as an example.
Why its not cool? And why Areelu not right? She thought - first - to be free from gods authority - you must be powerful enough, so you must become a godlike himself. Seems logical. Second - she found the way how to do this. And in this ending - she actually succeed. She became powerful, became free, save her child. Might - is right...Simple.
Personally, i prefer being a Gold Dragon. Though they seem to have forgotten the whole "the worldwound will eventually kill you" on that one and it just doesn't for no explained reason.
Morti! Mantis Heretic has to be the most op build ever in a crpg.
Way of the Charlatan Magic Deceiver says hi. zippy magic 30d6 chain lightning+ 60d6 disintegrate as many times as you want.
@@acrab6527 have you not seen that ridiculous aoe cc every kill?
Amazing
Good video, even tho i already completed this ending multiple times it's great someone somewhat popular is making a guide on it. Because the only one who made a yt guide on it so far is slandered gaming
Man, that's a lot of moving parts. No wonder I missed it. How do people figure this stuff out.
The conversation with Areelu at the end is the biggest source of in game hints, but I believe data mining revealed the last few pieces people were missing when it first launched.
Great stuff
Does it really matter at the beginning of the game when you have to choose between the scroll and the crossbow?
I mean if you choose the scroll, Areelu and the Suture will still fire the midnight bolt on Deskari, so you will still find the purple knive and the midnightbolt on market square. Actually nothing changes, but if you chose the scroll the tutorial is a bit easier, because you have the false life buff.
Its one of 7 things you can do to show Areelu you are like her child of which you are required to do 5 of them. So I mean technically, no you dont have too, but it is by far the easiest of the required interactions.
I resent that I can’t pursue Legend mechanics without spiting best mom Areelu
Good show sir
sounds easy as pie......maybe ill get banana pie!
huh... I think on one of my playthroughs I almost got the secret ending by accident :D but I never looked at the date I entered threshold. okay... soooo one more playthrough
The month is the only thing that matters not the year
I gotta say though that even if it works, lore wise it shouldn't. Once you kill Baphomet and Deskari you have a year each before killing them the second time would not actually kill them permanently and allow you to take their realms. Anything past 4717 is almost 100% gonna be past that year mark.
I want to take a stab at this but I'm struggling through an unfair run right now. Any tips on how to not pull my hair out?? Made it to siege of drezen before starting a new character last attempt
What i hate about this is it having only a 3 day window in the whole game, it's crazy. Both kingmaker and rogue trader have a much easier access to it
You're ascending to godhood without the star stone. Of course all the planets have to be aligned
@@acrab6527 star stone? That wasn't in the game on release, I don't think
@@leqeque7383 It's Pathfinder lore. Mortals who became gods like Aroden and Iomedae had to do the Star Stone trials to ascend. And yes, the game mentions these several times.
Anyways, great guide :)
Thanks for the guide! I find the path to get the secret ending way too convoluted. I really don't like the secret perception checks! I had a character optimised for perception (high wisdom, inquisitor...) and still failed the Nura checks! When I heard about them, it was too late, I didn't want to go back...
Nura isn't needed for the secret ending, she just lets you save the priests while also getting the needed research
Nurah is just helpful, not required, if she's not there you just have to let the priests die
Nurah seems bugged in my latest playthroughs. Can’t seem to get the trickster option to trigger.
Would really love a crusade mode guide, I always try to use it at the start of runs but get confused and turn it off...
Recruit a mage general because damaging spells are OP, also don't fight battles where you're bound to exceed the infirmary bar. Infirmary bar increases with general levels, feats and buildings. Do rank up decrees ASAP to unlock better units. Alternatively turn down the crusade battle difficulty because the crusader mode is not that well made and honestly quite boring.
1. Recuit mage generals
2. build barracks/stables/archery range + hospital in every fort.
3. Profit.
I recommend making the first 3 out of the 4 forts into eco set ups, then doing the troop buildings in later forts.
Mage gen
Stack of Archers, the ones you get at the start, I upgrade them into snipers.
Clerics, buy them from mercs.
Footmen, buy them from the start, upgrade into champions, if you get a big stack, they do massive damage later.
Cav unit, have a few options, hellknights are something you can get access to early so easy to stack.
Only buy and stack those 4 units from act 2 into 3. I buy a 2nd mage gen in act 3 that holds trash units, they are there for when armies march against you and your main is far away.
Honestly, I could not care less about the secret ending since the regular "Legend" ending fit my role-play purposes just fine. Similar in Kingmaker, I did not fight the final boss - when he wanted to make a certain deal in the end, I was "Yea, sure, go for it, I'm not going to bet my odds against you for such a measly gain". Of course, it's fine that such endings exist, but the issue is I am not a fan of the whole "fate" concept in games. Furthermore, the absurd requirements to unlock them are more tedious and a chore than fun. Since these games are also bugged like hell in their release state, the sheer thought of having to redo 70% of my playthrough due to something potentially not registering correctly is absolutely horrible as a concept. In its current state, these seem like bait for completionists and I think Owlcat should rethink their approach to them. I am fine with very strict and detailed requirements, as long as they are not overly grindy on the experience, or at the very least, more concentrated only in the final chapter, giving more flexibility.
Don't you also have to keep the bracers from Areelu on you? I didn't see that mentioned in this video but they represent the promise she made to bring her child back.
No, she'll comment about it if you have them on in Act 4 when you talk to her, but it's not part of this
There are several secret dialogue lines based on what equipment you have and how many artifacts you restore with the Storyteller, but none of them are vital for the ending. However, they are almost all related to Areelu (obvious exceptions are Terendelev's scale, Finnean the talking sword and the masks from the Enigma questline).
The Bracers you get from the start, which she will comment on in Act 4 ("So you kept them, I made them to keep you safe"). Even though she is clearly pleased it doesn't raise her child resemblance counter.
If you restore Areelu's cloak and have it with you, then you can actually start an entire dialogue tree about it in Act 5 during your conversation in Iz. She goes into detail how the cloak doesnt prevent her from dying from the wound that her Transformation gave her and that the goddess it is related to might not be powerful enough to close it.
The Stern Gauntlets or whatever they are called are directly related to the ghost of the Inquisitor who imprisoned Areelu who you can talk to about it in the secret lab.
The Elemental ring you can reforge belonged to the mage who betrayed Areelu and whose ghost you can also talk to in the lab and he says he believes you are worthy of doing good with it, so you should keep it.
The only item that is relevant for the secret ending are a pair of gloves you can get in the secret lab if you inspect objects in the right order. But you dont actually need to keep the gloves, Areelu was observing you in the lab anyway and just needed to know that you went for the gloves first, just like her child. You can mention it to her and it will add to the child resemblance counter.
I bet there are even more hidden equipment specific lines.
Any Dragon Mythic Path enjoyers here? How is the Path I’ve yet to do it myself
You can also get a crystal by doing Nenio's Quest and Killing ArushKagal .. (sp_
Yeah that was the side content I referred to perhaps too broadly
Tried it on my second play-through. Despite following a guide, I missed something as it's not triggering the extra dialogue in final confrontation. Such a bummer after so many hours.
If you don't mind using mods, you can use toybox to fix the thing you missed and still get the ending. As long as you have a save before the last fight, you can do the fix right there.
All that youtube jazz
The portrait for Nocticula does not look like the default game portraits. What is the source or how did you change it. I know how to add custom portraits to my character and how to change them for companions by editing the save file. How to change for NPCs?
That is her default portrait.
I always thought Kingmaker and Wrath of the Righteous are super cool for rewarding players who read and engage in absolutely everything in the game
The secret ending seems like a super reward for these kind of players and I couldn't imagine finding this out of my own
People didn't find it out, they used registry keys and data mining to discover it. Without these strategies it might still be a mystery, because the game isn't jotting down that info for you or keeping track of it.
The thing that continually puts me off this game is how the mechanics work. I started DnD with 5e and everytime I have the feeling I finally get how this works, suddenly there's a bizarre rule that I didn't know that seems to make my character useless. I really ran out of patience.
Well funnily enough Pathfinder 1e that this game uses is just an expanded version of DnD's 3.5e
Thats great and all, but it does't change the problem.
@@Khindrex That sucks and all, but not every game is for everyone. 5e is infinitely more popular for a reason, no sense in driving yourself crazy over a ruleset you clearly don't care for.