@dekay1428 I understand that this is a monumental task, but he could do a whole series of videos. Focusing on each class showing how to build, mechanics and also items that complement that build. It would get a lot of views.
Cavalier's fun to play, but the game makes mounted characters more of a hassle then they need to be. After every cut scene you're dismounted. And, if you're in combat, it takes a full turn to mount. When you enter an area from the map, you're dismounted and have tor remount. Small stuff, but it gets kinda old after the millionth time. Great video!
Love the vid. To add to the Shifter section, Dragonblood shifter used to be worse than Effigy (Courtesy of what you get being a worse version of what other classes have), but with the latest patch they have been buffed/fixed to actually get a better version.
Funniest thing ever is hearing almost all the Archetypes I picked show up as worst options. I love summoning in RPGs as well as damage mitigation classes. It is what it is though! Very informative vid! 😂
Mort is a good reviewer and gamer, but his opinion isn't always spot on especially when personal bias comes in to play. If you succeeded at your playthrough and had fun that's all that matters
@@MortismalGaming no worries dude! It was more them showing up back to back than anything else! I'm about to do a Mammoth Shifter run soon, so this will help me choose custom party members for Archetypes I never looked at before!
If you go Azata, pick ascended summons ability and a bunch of other stuff I think you can become a one-person army and really overwhelm enemies. But you really have to commit to summoning completely, which most people dont want to.
Divine Hunter (Hunter, not Paladin.) is one of my favourite Archetypes. It allows you to add Cleric Domain spells to your spellbook - that's +2 extra spells per domain per level. Combine this with impossible domain and suddenly you'll have a very broad and customisable spellbook while maintaining your animal companion. Combine with Mythic Trick Lore Religion for even more spells.
This is especially great for Lahn who has high Wisdom and a class allowing to use Wisdom for his chance to hit. Give him Impossible domain community and possibly several more domains and he brings a lot of value (good range attack, strong companion, domain spammer ...)
I feel like giving a small shout-out to Inciter Skald. It gives up very little, and lets you share Sneak Attack with your whole party. Since you'd probably only use Skalds on melee heavy parties anyway, this feels really nice to have. It also lets you choose Archetypes without Sneak Attack for other party members (Judge for Inquisitor over Sanctified Slayer being a favorite trade of mine).
Looked into everything Inciter gets after reading this and *dang*. That’s a lotta cool stuff. Perfect fit for my animal companion-heavy Azata nature playthrough.
@@zangatsubankai For real. Only issue I’m having atm is that I have a Skald and a Brown Fur and neither have a companion. I know I can get Bismuth in Act 2, but I was hoping to end up with six animals total.
@@nestorgamer9746 Yeeah, I do know that. I do have the game on the top of the list. Right now just no-lifing Factorio, but will have a go at Pathfinder soon, I have it on my Library already.
I feel like summons are often slept on because of them being weak compared to the enemies, but... they do also provide crowd control by giving the enemies decoys to soak up attacks while the main cast whales on them.
I made a bard for summoning tons of things and then my mage hastes all of them. They are not bad with a boat load of attacks. Also yer right using them as a mimic beacon is great
Nice video, gave me some ideas for archetypes I forgot about. Still I think this video shows why I stick to the lower difficulties since a lot of my favorite archetypes are the weak ones
Very happy to see the video ! Love the WOTR content anyway. Little thing because you pointed it out, the Gendarme end with a closed "e" so the end sound is more like "harm" :) I have to make a shout out to my last run and the Titan Fighter. It's gross, Double wielding greatsword with crit on a 17+ (1/5 chance) doing 7 attack base that double strength bonus on damage... it's just nuts. I'm also playing angel and with some basic buffs and good item (the one you get by just playing tho, not hunting for loot), I start at near +60 to hit, with an average of 150-170 damage per hit, and 450 on crit. Currently, with some heaven sword upgrade, I have 8 attacks, and I've delt in a single turn, in the average of 2 to 3000 damage. And that's without adding the Seize the Moment feat that just proc like crazy. It's just ridiculous. And I'm sure that going kitsune to get pounce, and mythic charge could get some even crazier damage.
Another fact = Kinetic Sharpshooter has far more potential for damage, shooting 2 times, and burn management. I've tested 2 Level 20 Kineticists of the same attributes stats; one being normal Kineticist and the other being the Sharpshooter and the difference is obvious. Damage of Kinetic Sharpshooter also scales with the bow that you are using. Plus, when you create a Kinetic Quiver, you make Ammo based on your Constitution. That means 1 burn gives you MORE THAN 1 SHOT. I made a Kineticist Sharpshooter with 20 in Constitution and at Level 20, the Kinetic Quiver gave me around 33 ammo. That IS HELLA COST EFFICIENT. PLUS the class restricted infusions are all ABSOLUTELY MARVELOUS. There is LITERALLY AN INFUSION that allows you shots to IGNORE DAMAGE REDUCTION of the target. Chain shots infusion also SLAYS!!!! I AM LOVING THIS SUBCLASS!!!!!!
Monster Tactician ain't half bad. Early game summons are a win fight button and even at the end of the game I had Ice Giants caving in skulls at core difficulty, but I go hard in to specializing in to summoning. Losing judgments I don't think is a big deal, because you can easily have too many swift actions to the point fight's don't last long enough for you to activate them. This is especially the case if you go Aeon as it's the best mythic for monster tactician. Personally I think Faith Hunter is the worst. You lose a domain for another swift action on a swift action loaded class.
Instinct barb 2, Titan Fighter 9, STR, x2 Glaives Goes online at the end of Act 1 when you start getting stat items/buffs. Works 100% without cheese, but if you want you can get archmage armor with mythic shenanigans. Alternative Forbidden Sauce: DEX, Elf stat variant, Mythic Finesse, x2 Elven curved blades.
You’re the best. I run an Incense Alchemist and have the ability to prevent friendly fire splash damage. So I think Grenadier is not the only one that gets that. Gonna triple down on how awesome IS is. Their Incense buff is alchemical which is unique and stacks on top of all other buffs. Very useful. And while you could pair them with a bard for tons of buffs, if you only have room for one I prefer an IS for their bomb damage. Touch attacks rule the Unfair day. Cheers.
Cavalier of the Paw is awesome! I'm currently playing one in my new Azata playthrough after I gave up on my first Angel Cleric in Act3. I just picked it for the name because I wanted something that fits something RP wise for the Azata theme and a Halfling riding a dog + a Succubus fawning over a short king, that is half her size, sounded like a lot of fun. So much better than my first abandoned playthrough.
i really loved Witch of the Veil. in game, its great. if it was tabletop, it would be totally busted. 100% uptime on greater invis, and personal dimension door on tap. unlimited per day. you give up 3 hexes for. shrouded step at 2nd level. invis for rounds equal to int bonus, as a swift action. 8th level, its dimension door+invis. 12th level is dimension door+greater invis. this is incredibly powerful to get your witch into position to cast spells round 1. she can dive forward, and slumber/weird in range. or attack then stealth. and once its g invis, you can dive forward, and cast from invisibility without it breaking. additionally, with fright presence fear aura and the like. close range for the witch with the defense of being invisible. and then, cast dimension door as a swift action every single turn. the mobility is insane. narratively, it does not actually reflect your witch being invisible 100% of the time, cackling.. locks the witch into deception domain, which is angelic aspect, weird, invis, displacement, phan web, confusion. decent spells. access to weird is great.
For Paladin I'd actually go with the base class. Better than the sub-classes IMO. In fact I have gone with that for my current play-through, currently in Chapter 3.
Am about to dip my toes into wotr so really appreciate updated content. Rules and complexity is manageable being an old Rolemaster addict 😊(TTRPG if someone remembers it). I do not really want to play Oracle/Angel do-goder as a playthrough so all new content giving ideas are great! Keep it coming
I don't have any interest/have never played Pathfinder, but I enjoy listening to your longform videos, and it's extremely satisfying to listen and watch. Hope you are having a great Fourth, and thanks as always for your hard work!
Idno, I generally agree with all the conclusions you're making, generally, pretty easy to say one is better than another in general within the bubble of it's own class. But higher up in difficulty it'd be more important to distinguish which "archetype" (including the core class) is more useful in multi-classing, identifying which classes or archetypes are best as a pure investment of 20 levels, but also, comparing classes and archetypes even against each other for performing specific roles, like healing or archery. Maybe that's a much more convoluted and MUCH longer video but if we're talking Hard+ and especially Unfair difficulty, that's kind of required. But good video for people starting to learn the game that just want to know what's generally good, I don't watch too much of your stuff, maybe you covered what I'm talking about in other videos. Keep up the great work and thanks for the vid, glad you're still going strong with WotR!
yeah, that's how i felt as well. its all and good to say one archetype is great based on its full kit. but in a game like this, where you either dont have access to some of its later tools(he does adress some of this in the video), or how many builds will often just dip a couple of levels into other archetypes to push a build design further.
I´m so glad I watched this video. Titan fighter FINALLY solves my dilemma: Getting "greater dual wielding" on my strength-based true legend/ Tandem executioner going for shield bashing. Time for attempt number 4! Let´s ride that kitten into battle
I'm surprised no one is looking into bloodrager more. I kinda like it, to be honest! Having fun handicapping myself with an elven spelleater bloodrager 😂
I started a Sword Saint playthrough as a result of your first video about 2 weeks ago and I've just started Act Four. It's SO much more fun & more effective than playing Fighter (which I did my first time) and I honestly think the game exaggerates the complexity, especially since the class gives you options you just don't have as Fighter such as "Mirror Image" and AOE damage ranged spells whilst still having reasonably decent AC. I'm gonna watch this one anyway since you might give me an idea of what class to try when I do a Lich run next.
While it didn't get mentioned as good or bad, my favorite Archetype is easily Invulnerable Rager for Barbarian, but I freely admit that it's largely because of a character I played at the table who was an absolute blast to play
the funny thing is... i just started playing the dlc's after your guide a few days ago and just today i let your old Video about best and worst archtypes play as i went about my day^^. Thanks for the content
Primalist is so good, letting you pick and choose between bloodline powers and babarian totems, so you can take (two!) totem every 4 lvl or get your bloodline powers. Getting whatever is best suited for your build when it suits you is pretty sweet. So you might skip a bonus to acid resistance for two totems, but you'll be sure to take your serpentine reach at lvl 12!
what's make it insane is that you can take a mythical ability to have 2 bloodlines... then you gain double feats and double abilities, letting you combine all of the massive bonuses from rage power with bloodline benefits on top of it. By act V, my bloodrager MC could slash bosses to death in 1 turn... Bascially the barbarian, just a lot better in every way.
I understand that claim for sure but in my experience I've found Instinctual warrior barbarian easier to play on higher difficulties than Primalist. They're essentially two sides of the same coin where as Primalist focuses on the raw damage viability aspect Instinctual warrior is better for defense and hitting concealed Targets.
yeah my biggest issue with the genre is how much foresight is needed to play them. it reminds me of when i tried playing divinity original sin 1. and i cant remember how many times i restarted, simply because i never felt like i picked a good starting party. the issue is how the progression makes your early decision feel much more heavy. its the same issue i had with neverwinter nights. where in order to test a build viability, i had to make a character in the dlc that bumped your level to 15. and then see who was able to survive the first gauntlet of enemies. ironically, MANY of the characters that were far better earlier on in the original campaign, would get killed easily. like barbarians, fighters and even some paladins. the only class that i felt was really good at both the early game, and the early dlc test ended up being the cleric. but that's besides the point.
It's sad that they didn't port the Spirit Guide oracle archetype from the tabletop. It sacrifices some revelations for the wandering spirit shaman ability, and a hex from the spirit you pick. The spells you get scale with your caster level instead of your class level. That means it would be great to multiclass with. I only recently got into the tabletop, and this is my favorite archetype so far. It's not only really flavorful, but mechanically cool too!
Had a lot of fun with the Magic Deciever Arcanist making weird spell combos. I also like to give paladins a dip in Titan fighter so they can combine a two handed Weapon with a shield
One thing I would like to say is that Steelblood Bloodrager makes for an excellent dip for Arcane casters, because the 1st level feature that eliminates Arcane Spell Failure for Bloodrager spells instead works for ALL Arcane spells in WoTR.
Nobody ever talks abhout Witch of the Veil, so I have no idea what the class' general perception is, but it is my favorite Witch archetype and super fun to play.
Their shrouded step ability is by FAR my favourite feature I've had across multiple spellcasters in these games. Now you see me, now you don't! Later, demons!!!!
I recently used the scale monk and lone strider oracle to increase my base movement to 50/100. Also, I haven't seen anyone mention that if you are an Oracle and combine that with the Angel mythic path, you get all the best divine spells available for use all the time.
Conversely I think the Beast Tamer is fantastic. It isn't as expensive feat wise to make a good summoner with a Beast Tamer cause you get some of the most important stuff for your summons for free when you level up. Beast Tamer and Monster Tactician are two of the only archetypes that make summoning actually viable, on any difficulty, in my humble opinion.
Regarding Summoning - Toybox allows you to control summons, which can make summoning archetypes much more useful. I also use it for Gestalt classing which can make some archetypes that are normally useless very useful when added along with another. Regarding Shamans - I tried the possessed shaman. The wandering skill abilities et. al. didn't work right. Didn't count as class skills etc. It might have been fixed recently but wasn't as of 8 months or so ago.
The "e" at the end of Gendarme is silent....it is a French expression and actually a contraction of "gens d´armes" literally basically meaning "men at arms" and that contraction "Gendarme" was originally used exclusively for "mounted troopers/members of the cavallery" in 15 Hundreds France and in that sense it is used in Wrath...in the 17th century it became the term for the French military police and since the 19th century it is the term for the regular French police.
hagbound is an archetype that to me feels like it was made for gestalt games. You run hagbound as your second class on say, a titan mauler fighter for those bumps to your str and grab hexes like Iceplant for the bit of added survivability. On its own, I have no idea who would take it lol
Shadow shaman was great for a "do everything" playthrough. Air / Stone + Battle spirits Tiefling for bite Claw hex + demon horns 1 level dip for monk + flurry of blows + Wisdom to AC Demon (mythic level 1 + 2) --> Angel --> Gold Dragon Respec before Gold Dragon to max and min your stats (Gold Dragon increases all you stats to a minimum of 14 then later 18, so dump away lol) Was a great character for a non-unfair run- full attack (flurry of blows + claw + bite + horns) was hilarious with sneak attack, then being a full caster with Angel spells, was so much fun
I would love and really appreciate something like a BG3-style class deep dive videos that would go through all the archetypes and the general class to help people like me, who plan to start this game finally and have no idea what to choose. I know it would require a lot of work, but it would be great content for a lot of people, I believe. 🙂
If you have time on your final playthrough, i would be curious to see a build guide or two using some of the newer archtypes. Magic deceiver, bloodseeker and winter child all seem super fun!
Which Mythic are you planning to choose, Devil? Lich will be difficult with not being able to select Necromancy spells (Or Transmutation for that matter, but having another caster buffing the party is still a good possibility)
Would be great to get a similar video on your favourite / your recommendation for classes for each Mythic Path. Think you did one awhile back, but would be good to see an update. E.G> Crusader Cleric for Angel etc.
I recently did and am like 15-20 hours in now. I’ve never been so paralyzed by choice. 😁 dear god, with all the DLC installed, there’s too many classes to keep track of. Then my ranger hit level 4, and wait I have to choose between like 20 pets? And then I do choose, and wtf, my pet is another character that I need to pick a class and feats for? 😆
@@TechnoLawyerI understand what you mean. I spent forever in the character creator because I didn't know what to pick. Ended up going with a sword saint magus.
I wonder if playing BG3 might have helped my understanding of this game now. Maybe I'll dig in again at some point. Initially, I found it too overwhelming and granular, but it might click.
Thank you for your work. I love all the subclasses for replay value but I get lost in the weeds a lot trying to pick one and worry about the calss being broken.
I like to use toy box to multiclass a bunch and then up the difficulty. I'm currently playing a Dhampir that has a mix of Bloodseeker/Primalist/Sword Saint and Mutation Warrior. Really wanted to go for a deadly vampire swordsman build. Really liking it so far, and some of those new blood abilities in Bloodseeker look awesome! You get a cool mix of the 1 handed sword use with claw and bite attacks, it's quite fun. And I like to headcanon that his mutagens are actually blood vials
Yo mort don't sleep on Inciter Skald. loses lore buffs, 2 rage powers (still can get enough using bonus feats) and some worthless songs but gets sneak attack that can be given to your entire party, what's more the inciters' sneak attack bonus feats apply to the whole party too. In martial heavy party you will absolutely delete everything.
Hagbound is oddly a good class for the gold dragon mythic path. As a low BAB, high strength, natural weapon, full caster they get the most benefit from the gold dragon abilities.
I ended up rolling Slayer Executioner for my Through the Ashes playthrough (which I'm doing first). For the main campaign I was thinking Paladin, but the presence of Seelah made that redundant. Instead, I'm thinking of going core Cavalier. Lawful Good, Order of the Lion, all that good stuff.
Not a big fan of archetypes where you just give up your defining class feature to play essentially another class as a hybrid - Sanctified Slayer feels like more of a Slayer than an Inquisitor and while hybrids can be fun, sometimes when I play an Inquisitor I just want to actually be an Inquisitor.
to me, archetypes SHOULD all ditch the defining class feature, for a VARIANT of that archetype. that's what should set them apart. for example, lets say you have a shifter class that is all about transforming. this is the main gimmick of the class. there should be an archetype that isntead of completely shifting, it instead shift parts of your body. other archetypes should focus on shifting on specific monster types. giving you more bonus when you do shift into them, at the cost of only being able to transform into that type. and that's how many of the archetypes here work. they lose something, or limit them. the issue is, they dont offer an equivalent exchange. if you are limiting the class into what it does, you better make something else it does MUCH better. It shouldnt be slightly inferior, or just the same. it should be a massive upgrade to that aspect of the class, since you are sacrificing something core to its identity.
Haven't played a Brown Fur as a main but I don't see why it wouldn't be fun. Playing a decently strength based caster who uses magic to get even more swole and tear apart enemies with his great club, and at later levels, becoming a frikin dragon and tearing around in combat. Seems pretty fun to me. You may not be the party's main dps but that's nor a requirement for having fun with an MC.
On the fun scale, I thought it was hilarious to play a Mad Dog Barbarian Halfling charging into battle on his Mammoth. Next I want to make a fighter who dual wields two handed weapons. Any tips on which weapon to weapon focus in? Maybe (a) build guide (s) for the alternate story line would be useful as well?
For your Titan Fighter build, Elven curve blade and fauchard have the best crit ranges (both require exotic proficiency). Elven curve blade looks the best, while fauchard has reach. If you want to be a frontliner, take ECB. If you want to hide behind your tanks, take fauchard. Two notes: First, with the new heavy armor mythic feats, you don't really need to hide behind your tanks, and second, you probably won't want to dual wield your two-handed weapons until Mythic 2, when you can take Mythic Two-Weapon Fighting. Before that, the penalties are a little too high, so you'll probably want a shield in your offhand (or at least a small weapon). [EDIT: Oh, falchion also has a high crit range, but I don't really like the available options, so I tend to overlook it.]
I'd love to see a video outlining your thoughts on base classes, with no archetype chosen. I find in a lot of games that go down the specialist rabbit hole, people end up dismissing the base class, which means there's not a lot of info out there about them.
Off the top of my head there are two cases (Kineticist and Paladin) where there is a good argument to just take the base class. Otherwise the archetypes are usually the way to go.
@@MortismalGaming Thanks for the reply Mort. Putting aside "effectiveness", how about class fantasy? I usually find that a lot of these archetypes diverge quite a lot from that. Then again, I don't know how familiar you are with it, but I'm one of those oddballs who prefers playing "Core" Warrior in Guild Wars 2, because no matter what anyone says about effectiveness, it's the one Warrior variant that I enjoy playing the most, and the one that feels closest to the class fantasy.
On my way to become a Lich with Sylvan Sorcerer (1st playtrough) 😊 can't wait to try merged spell book . Will probably try Dual cursed Oracle for good playtrough 😊
I made a divine scion paladin of abadar with 3 levels in sable company marine so he can ride a hippogriff. One of abadars servents is a hippogriff named old cob that probably gives out parking citations. I love pathfinder lore.
If you’re looking at sorcerers I think Sylvan is arguably the most powerful. Animal companions are so busted in this game since they can easily get teamwork feats. You don’t even have to raise their int to qualify just put on a +int headband. For that matter any class or archetype that has access to an animal companion is busted
There's still a good case to be picking spirit hunter. Yeah Camellia has it but it's a pretty versatile class. Further more if someone's running a good aligned party there's really decent reason to suggest *spoilers* camellia wouldn't stay in the roster the whole game
Only one type of summon that I found useful and it is the necromancy type that summons skeletons. These skelly bois can act immediately once they been summoned. Meaning that you can IMMEDIATELY SURROUND an enemy with them and they will start to move & act right away. They are great distraction.
Didn’t know I missed Mort talking about WoTR classes so much.
I must have spent hours studying his videos in the lead up to Wrath's release. Love that the subclasses never end in this game.
Can we ask for new beginers builds. It would be nice to have one for each class
Can we also get build for each mythic path. And also update for beginers guide.
I would love that, and it would take a while since the gear, testing, and compatability "in the field". So I am not confident he will anytime soon.
@dekay1428 I understand that this is a monumental task, but he could do a whole series of videos. Focusing on each class showing how to build, mechanics and also items that complement that build. It would get a lot of views.
Also composition of the team.
I agree it would be nice, but the time it would take would be enormous This isn't the only game he covers. He works hard to give us content as it is.
Cavalier's fun to play, but the game makes mounted characters more of a hassle then they need to be. After every cut scene you're dismounted. And, if you're in combat, it takes a full turn to mount. When you enter an area from the map, you're dismounted and have tor remount. Small stuff, but it gets kinda old after the millionth time.
Great video!
Can never get enough of your Wrath coverage!
But it's always dangerous for me to watch these as I get new ideas for yet another startup character 😮
I totally relate 😂 I'm not done with my Witch run yet, I shouldn't be here! I want to try a Druid now lol
Love the vid. To add to the Shifter section, Dragonblood shifter used to be worse than Effigy (Courtesy of what you get being a worse version of what other classes have), but with the latest patch they have been buffed/fixed to actually get a better version.
Funniest thing ever is hearing almost all the Archetypes I picked show up as worst options. I love summoning in RPGs as well as damage mitigation classes. It is what it is though! Very informative vid! 😂
Mort is a good reviewer and gamer, but his opinion isn't always spot on especially when personal bias comes in to play. If you succeeded at your playthrough and had fun that's all that matters
Like I said at the beginning, its all fine on normal and the best one is ultimately the one you want to play.
@@MortismalGaming no worries dude! It was more them showing up back to back than anything else! I'm about to do a Mammoth Shifter run soon, so this will help me choose custom party members for Archetypes I never looked at before!
Summonings are good for keeping bosses occupied while you pound on them with archers and tanks.
If you go Azata, pick ascended summons ability and a bunch of other stuff I think you can become a one-person army and really overwhelm enemies. But you really have to commit to summoning completely, which most people dont want to.
Great video. Thank you for updating this. 13:05 FYI: Gendarme is French so the E is silent at the end.
And the E at the beginning sounds kind of like an O in the word "done". French is just different that way 😅
Well obviously before. After was al gendarmes and dick stitches lana.
Thanks for updating! I'm getting back into wotr and I know a lot of the videos out there are outdated
Divine Hunter (Hunter, not Paladin.) is one of my favourite Archetypes. It allows you to add Cleric Domain spells to your spellbook - that's +2 extra spells per domain per level. Combine this with impossible domain and suddenly you'll have a very broad and customisable spellbook while maintaining your animal companion.
Combine with Mythic Trick Lore Religion for even more spells.
This is especially great for Lahn who has high Wisdom and a class allowing to use Wisdom for his chance to hit. Give him Impossible domain community and possibly several more domains and he brings a lot of value (good range attack, strong companion, domain spammer ...)
Seeing you getting hyped about WotR again is getting ME hyped for it again. Third playthrough here we go! Thanks Mort! We appreciate you, sir
It’s amazing to see how much some of these classes change over the years.
I feel like giving a small shout-out to Inciter Skald. It gives up very little, and lets you share Sneak Attack with your whole party. Since you'd probably only use Skalds on melee heavy parties anyway, this feels really nice to have. It also lets you choose Archetypes without Sneak Attack for other party members (Judge for Inquisitor over Sanctified Slayer being a favorite trade of mine).
Looked into everything Inciter gets after reading this and *dang*. That’s a lotta cool stuff. Perfect fit for my animal companion-heavy Azata nature playthrough.
@@Ezghiel It's pretty nuts, isn't it? I'm pretty happy to have it in the game.
@@zangatsubankai For real. Only issue I’m having atm is that I have a Skald and a Brown Fur and neither have a companion. I know I can get Bismuth in Act 2, but I was hoping to end up with six animals total.
@@Ezghiel I'm not sure if it'd be the most effective option, but you could always dip Sable Marine or Demonslayer.
@@zangatsubankai True, yeah. Those are both pretty good.
Never played Pathfinder, possibly never will. Am I still gonna watch a 50 minute video from Mort? - Yes.
You are really missing out
@@nestorgamer9746 Yeeah, I do know that. I do have the game on the top of the list. Right now just no-lifing Factorio, but will have a go at Pathfinder soon, I have it on my Library already.
you are missing anything.
@@GrimnirLaguz28 did you perish or did you give pathfinder wotr a go? besides bg3 it's the best crpg I've played
I feel like summons are often slept on because of them being weak compared to the enemies, but... they do also provide crowd control by giving the enemies decoys to soak up attacks while the main cast whales on them.
I made a bard for summoning tons of things and then my mage hastes all of them. They are not bad with a boat load of attacks. Also yer right using them as a mimic beacon is great
Nice video, gave me some ideas for archetypes I forgot about. Still I think this video shows why I stick to the lower difficulties since a lot of my favorite archetypes are the weak ones
Very happy to see the video ! Love the WOTR content anyway.
Little thing because you pointed it out, the Gendarme end with a closed "e" so the end sound is more like "harm" :)
I have to make a shout out to my last run and the Titan Fighter. It's gross, Double wielding greatsword with crit on a 17+ (1/5 chance) doing 7 attack base that double strength bonus on damage... it's just nuts. I'm also playing angel and with some basic buffs and good item (the one you get by just playing tho, not hunting for loot), I start at near +60 to hit, with an average of 150-170 damage per hit, and 450 on crit. Currently, with some heaven sword upgrade, I have 8 attacks, and I've delt in a single turn, in the average of 2 to 3000 damage. And that's without adding the Seize the Moment feat that just proc like crazy. It's just ridiculous. And I'm sure that going kitsune to get pounce, and mythic charge could get some even crazier damage.
Will watch this in couple of months when I'll do a 2nd playthrough.
Hey dude, thank you for the updated video!!! You're the undisputed goat when it comes to WOTRA
Another fact = Kinetic Sharpshooter has far more potential for damage, shooting 2 times, and burn management. I've tested 2 Level 20 Kineticists of the same attributes stats; one being normal Kineticist and the other being the Sharpshooter and the difference is obvious. Damage of Kinetic Sharpshooter also scales with the bow that you are using. Plus, when you create a Kinetic Quiver, you make Ammo based on your Constitution. That means 1 burn gives you MORE THAN 1 SHOT. I made a Kineticist Sharpshooter with 20 in Constitution and at Level 20, the Kinetic Quiver gave me around 33 ammo. That IS HELLA COST EFFICIENT. PLUS the class restricted infusions are all ABSOLUTELY MARVELOUS. There is LITERALLY AN INFUSION that allows you shots to IGNORE DAMAGE REDUCTION of the target. Chain shots infusion also SLAYS!!!! I AM LOVING THIS SUBCLASS!!!!!!
Monster Tactician ain't half bad. Early game summons are a win fight button and even at the end of the game I had Ice Giants caving in skulls at core difficulty, but I go hard in to specializing in to summoning.
Losing judgments I don't think is a big deal, because you can easily have too many swift actions to the point fight's don't last long enough for you to activate them. This is especially the case if you go Aeon as it's the best mythic for monster tactician.
Personally I think Faith Hunter is the worst. You lose a domain for another swift action on a swift action loaded class.
Best archetype: the animal companion one
Worst archetype: the one I like probably
Instinct barb 2, Titan Fighter 9, STR, x2 Glaives
Goes online at the end of Act 1 when you start getting stat items/buffs. Works 100% without cheese, but if you want you can get archmage armor with mythic shenanigans.
Alternative Forbidden Sauce: DEX, Elf stat variant, Mythic Finesse, x2 Elven curved blades.
You’re the best.
I run an Incense Alchemist and have the ability to prevent friendly fire splash damage. So I think Grenadier is not the only one that gets that.
Gonna triple down on how awesome IS is. Their Incense buff is alchemical which is unique and stacks on top of all other buffs. Very useful. And while you could pair them with a bard for tons of buffs, if you only have room for one I prefer an IS for their bomb damage. Touch attacks rule the Unfair day.
Cheers.
Cavalier of the Paw is awesome! I'm currently playing one in my new Azata playthrough after I gave up on my first Angel Cleric in Act3. I just picked it for the name because I wanted something that fits something RP wise for the Azata theme and a Halfling riding a dog + a Succubus fawning over a short king, that is half her size, sounded like a lot of fun. So much better than my first abandoned playthrough.
i really loved Witch of the Veil. in game, its great. if it was tabletop, it would be totally busted. 100% uptime on greater invis, and personal dimension door on tap. unlimited per day.
you give up 3 hexes for. shrouded step at 2nd level. invis for rounds equal to int bonus, as a swift action. 8th level, its dimension door+invis. 12th level is dimension door+greater invis.
this is incredibly powerful to get your witch into position to cast spells round 1. she can dive forward, and slumber/weird in range. or attack then stealth. and once its g invis, you can dive forward, and cast from invisibility without it breaking. additionally, with fright presence fear aura and the like. close range for the witch with the defense of being invisible.
and then, cast dimension door as a swift action every single turn. the mobility is insane.
narratively, it does not actually reflect your witch being invisible 100% of the time, cackling..
locks the witch into deception domain, which is
angelic aspect, weird, invis, displacement, phan web, confusion. decent spells. access to weird is great.
For Paladin I'd actually go with the base class. Better than the sub-classes IMO. In fact I have gone with that for my current play-through, currently in Chapter 3.
Perfect timing. I was just thinking about diving back into the game. Maybe this time I'll stick with my choice and finish the game!
Am about to dip my toes into wotr so really appreciate updated content. Rules and complexity is manageable being an old Rolemaster addict 😊(TTRPG if someone remembers it).
I do not really want to play Oracle/Angel do-goder as a playthrough so all new content giving ideas are great! Keep it coming
back to the roots of the channel. and right when i was getting ready to do a new run having not played since before the first dlc. always the goat.
Just finished my first playthrough on normal and I'm planning to do a second on Core as an Aeon, so this is a ton of help. Thanks!
I don't have any interest/have never played Pathfinder, but I enjoy listening to your longform videos, and it's extremely satisfying to listen and watch. Hope you are having a great Fourth, and thanks as always for your hard work!
Idno, I generally agree with all the conclusions you're making, generally, pretty easy to say one is better than another in general within the bubble of it's own class. But higher up in difficulty it'd be more important to distinguish which "archetype" (including the core class) is more useful in multi-classing, identifying which classes or archetypes are best as a pure investment of 20 levels, but also, comparing classes and archetypes even against each other for performing specific roles, like healing or archery. Maybe that's a much more convoluted and MUCH longer video but if we're talking Hard+ and especially Unfair difficulty, that's kind of required.
But good video for people starting to learn the game that just want to know what's generally good, I don't watch too much of your stuff, maybe you covered what I'm talking about in other videos. Keep up the great work and thanks for the vid, glad you're still going strong with WotR!
yeah, that's how i felt as well. its all and good to say one archetype is great based on its full kit. but in a game like this, where you either dont have access to some of its later tools(he does adress some of this in the video), or how many builds will often just dip a couple of levels into other archetypes to push a build design further.
I´m so glad I watched this video. Titan fighter FINALLY solves my dilemma: Getting "greater dual wielding" on my strength-based true legend/ Tandem executioner going for shield bashing. Time for attempt number 4! Let´s ride that kitten into battle
I'm surprised no one is looking into bloodrager more. I kinda like it, to be honest! Having fun handicapping myself with an elven spelleater bloodrager 😂
I started a Sword Saint playthrough as a result of your first video about 2 weeks ago and I've just started Act Four. It's SO much more fun & more effective than playing Fighter (which I did my first time) and I honestly think the game exaggerates the complexity, especially since the class gives you options you just don't have as Fighter such as "Mirror Image" and AOE damage ranged spells whilst still having reasonably decent AC.
I'm gonna watch this one anyway since you might give me an idea of what class to try when I do a Lich run next.
Thank you. I'm so glad you like Blight Druid too. I was even able to clear Water Elemental with it at the start on Harder difficulties :D
While it didn't get mentioned as good or bad, my favorite Archetype is easily Invulnerable Rager for Barbarian, but I freely admit that it's largely because of a character I played at the table who was an absolute blast to play
the funny thing is... i just started playing the dlc's after your guide a few days ago and just today i let your old Video about best and worst archtypes play as i went about my day^^. Thanks for the content
Thanks for the update! I'm glad to see so many of the new archetypes are strong, interesting or both. I'm loving the game.
Honestly surprised you didn't even mention Primalist when I've heard multiple people claim it's the best archetype in the entire game.
Primalist is so good, letting you pick and choose between bloodline powers and babarian totems, so you can take (two!) totem every 4 lvl or get your bloodline powers. Getting whatever is best suited for your build when it suits you is pretty sweet. So you might skip a bonus to acid resistance for two totems, but you'll be sure to take your serpentine reach at lvl 12!
what's make it insane is that you can take a mythical ability to have 2 bloodlines... then you gain double feats and double abilities, letting you combine all of the massive bonuses from rage power with bloodline benefits on top of it. By act V, my bloodrager MC could slash bosses to death in 1 turn...
Bascially the barbarian, just a lot better in every way.
It was my pick for my demon play, it was awesome.
I understand that claim for sure but in my experience I've found Instinctual warrior barbarian easier to play on higher difficulties than Primalist. They're essentially two sides of the same coin where as Primalist focuses on the raw damage viability aspect Instinctual warrior is better for defense and hitting concealed Targets.
@@SpaceVENTINGI’ve had a lot of fun with a Instinctual Warrior/Drunken Monk, very fun
I just got this game from the summer sale, its pretty daunting tbh, glad there are videos like these that go so in depth
yeah my biggest issue with the genre is how much foresight is needed to play them. it reminds me of when i tried playing divinity original sin 1. and i cant remember how many times i restarted, simply because i never felt like i picked a good starting party.
the issue is how the progression makes your early decision feel much more heavy.
its the same issue i had with neverwinter nights. where in order to test a build viability, i had to make a character in the dlc that bumped your level to 15. and then see who was able to survive the first gauntlet of enemies.
ironically, MANY of the characters that were far better earlier on in the original campaign, would get killed easily. like barbarians, fighters and even some paladins. the only class that i felt was really good at both the early game, and the early dlc test ended up being the cleric. but that's besides the point.
It's sad that they didn't port the Spirit Guide oracle archetype from the tabletop. It sacrifices some revelations for the wandering spirit shaman ability, and a hex from the spirit you pick. The spells you get scale with your caster level instead of your class level. That means it would be great to multiclass with.
I only recently got into the tabletop, and this is my favorite archetype so far. It's not only really flavorful, but mechanically cool too!
Fun Fact: If you play as the Hag of Gyronna Witch, you can curse Hulrun for what he did to Ember in the past.
thank you i need lists like this to decide what to play and ive been waiting for an update
Had a lot of fun with the Magic Deciever Arcanist making weird spell combos. I also like to give paladins a dip in Titan fighter so they can combine a two handed
Weapon with a shield
One thing I would like to say is that Steelblood Bloodrager makes for an excellent dip for Arcane casters, because the 1st level feature that eliminates Arcane Spell Failure for Bloodrager spells instead works for ALL Arcane spells in WoTR.
Love the video! This gave me some ideas for some stuff to try. Always nice seeing u cover WotR!
Nobody ever talks abhout Witch of the Veil, so I have no idea what the class' general perception is, but it is my favorite Witch archetype and super fun to play.
Their shrouded step ability is by FAR my favourite feature I've had across multiple spellcasters in these games. Now you see me, now you don't! Later, demons!!!!
It really stinks seeing all the best archetypes from Kingmaker (it’s the ones that summon or had an animal companion) not scale well in WotR.
Reminds me of how powerful shut-down builds in BG2 were compared to much worse they are in BG3.
I just started playing this game and full on raw doggin it, so this helps alot
I recently used the scale monk and lone strider oracle to increase my base movement to 50/100. Also, I haven't seen anyone mention that if you are an Oracle and combine that with the Angel mythic path, you get all the best divine spells available for use all the time.
Just what doctor ordered, as I'm preparing to finally start my WotR playthrough. 😎
I've never even played this game but honestly all this fantasy class info is super interesting
Conversely I think the Beast Tamer is fantastic. It isn't as expensive feat wise to make a good summoner with a Beast Tamer cause you get some of the most important stuff for your summons for free when you level up. Beast Tamer and Monster Tactician are two of the only archetypes that make summoning actually viable, on any difficulty, in my humble opinion.
just finished a titan knight legend playthrough, It was tons of fun to dual wield falchions
Regarding Summoning - Toybox allows you to control summons, which can make summoning archetypes much more useful. I also use it for Gestalt classing which can make some archetypes that are normally useless very useful when added along with another. Regarding Shamans - I tried the possessed shaman. The wandering skill abilities et. al. didn't work right. Didn't count as class skills etc. It might have been fixed recently but wasn't as of 8 months or so ago.
The "e" at the end of Gendarme is silent....it is a French expression and actually a contraction of "gens d´armes" literally basically meaning "men at arms" and that contraction "Gendarme" was originally used exclusively for "mounted troopers/members of the cavallery" in 15 Hundreds France and in that sense it is used in Wrath...in the 17th century it became the term for the French military police and since the 19th century it is the term for the regular French police.
I only played through it once before all the DLC's dropped and Magus into Lich, into Legend into Fighter was so busted.
hagbound is an archetype that to me feels like it was made for gestalt games. You run hagbound as your second class on say, a titan mauler fighter for those bumps to your str and grab hexes like Iceplant for the bit of added survivability. On its own, I have no idea who would take it lol
Ive tried to make use of it, because it seems really cool on the surface, but man I just cant make it work.
Shadow shaman was great for a "do everything" playthrough.
Air / Stone + Battle spirits
Tiefling for bite
Claw hex + demon horns
1 level dip for monk + flurry of blows + Wisdom to AC
Demon (mythic level 1 + 2) --> Angel --> Gold Dragon
Respec before Gold Dragon to max and min your stats (Gold Dragon increases all you stats to a minimum of 14 then later 18, so dump away lol)
Was a great character for a non-unfair run- full attack (flurry of blows + claw + bite + horns) was hilarious with sneak attack, then being a full caster with Angel spells, was so much fun
Awesome video, really informative about the best and worst archetypes. A shame so many of weakest archetypes try to make you have beast forms.
"In every way but actually being good, I am a wolf."
Even though I have zero interest in re-installing either Pathfinder game, I know you love the game which makes it enjoyable to watch/listen to.
I would love and really appreciate something like a BG3-style class deep dive videos that would go through all the archetypes and the general class to help people like me, who plan to start this game finally and have no idea what to choose. I know it would require a lot of work, but it would be great content for a lot of people, I believe. 🙂
If you have time on your final playthrough, i would be curious to see a build guide or two using some of the newer archtypes. Magic deceiver, bloodseeker and winter child all seem super fun!
For wizards I absolutely love thassilonian specialist enchantment. Get to be a super persuasive wizard, and have incredible DC on control spells.
Which Mythic are you planning to choose, Devil? Lich will be difficult with not being able to select Necromancy spells (Or Transmutation for that matter, but having another caster buffing the party is still a good possibility)
No love for Wildland Shaman? Full pet progression is very strong for a full divine caster.
No way the video I asked for on the beginning of the end video. Don't know if you did it because of tha but thanks all the same!
Well not just you, a lot of people had been asking for one that included the new archetypes etc
@@MortismalGaming Either way you are awesome mate keep up the great work.
Would be great to get a similar video on your favourite / your recommendation for classes for each Mythic Path. Think you did one awhile back, but would be good to see an update. E.G> Crusader Cleric for Angel etc.
Can't believe they murdered Grave Singer
Just bought the game today. Excellent timing!
I recently did and am like 15-20 hours in now.
I’ve never been so paralyzed by choice. 😁 dear god, with all the DLC installed, there’s too many classes to keep track of.
Then my ranger hit level 4, and wait I have to choose between like 20 pets? And then I do choose, and wtf, my pet is another character that I need to pick a class and feats for? 😆
@@TechnoLawyerI understand what you mean. I spent forever in the character creator because I didn't know what to pick. Ended up going with a sword saint magus.
I wonder if playing BG3 might have helped my understanding of this game now. Maybe I'll dig in again at some point. Initially, I found it too overwhelming and granular, but it might click.
Thank you for your work. I love all the subclasses for replay value but I get lost in the weeds a lot trying to pick one and worry about the calss being broken.
It would be nice a video regarding party composition, and classes to choose for you and companions. Thanks for the video
I like to use toy box to multiclass a bunch and then up the difficulty. I'm currently playing a Dhampir that has a mix of Bloodseeker/Primalist/Sword Saint and Mutation Warrior. Really wanted to go for a deadly vampire swordsman build. Really liking it so far, and some of those new blood abilities in Bloodseeker look awesome! You get a cool mix of the 1 handed sword use with claw and bite attacks, it's quite fun. And I like to headcanon that his mutagens are actually blood vials
Feels like a blast to the past!!
I literally watched the old one this morning x.x
I give a shoutout to Herald of the Horn Skald. Its my favorite of that class.
But really good and helpful video.
Yo mort don't sleep on Inciter Skald. loses lore buffs, 2 rage powers (still can get enough using bonus feats) and some worthless songs but gets sneak attack that can be given to your entire party, what's more the inciters' sneak attack bonus feats apply to the whole party too. In martial heavy party you will absolutely delete everything.
I love eldritch scion, magus with a bloodline and spontaneous casting
If you’re ever in the market to make fun companion builds I think that would be really fun. Add a little spice to the 200th play through lol
I have a couple out, Nenio and Ember off the top of my head
Hagbound is oddly a good class for the gold dragon mythic path. As a low BAB, high strength, natural weapon, full caster they get the most benefit from the gold dragon abilities.
I ended up rolling Slayer Executioner for my Through the Ashes playthrough (which I'm doing first). For the main campaign I was thinking Paladin, but the presence of Seelah made that redundant. Instead, I'm thinking of going core Cavalier. Lawful Good, Order of the Lion, all that good stuff.
Not a big fan of archetypes where you just give up your defining class feature to play essentially another class as a hybrid - Sanctified Slayer feels like more of a Slayer than an Inquisitor and while hybrids can be fun, sometimes when I play an Inquisitor I just want to actually be an Inquisitor.
to me, archetypes SHOULD all ditch the defining class feature, for a VARIANT of that archetype. that's what should set them apart. for example, lets say you have a shifter class that is all about transforming. this is the main gimmick of the class. there should be an archetype that isntead of completely shifting, it instead shift parts of your body. other archetypes should focus on shifting on specific monster types. giving you more bonus when you do shift into them, at the cost of only being able to transform into that type.
and that's how many of the archetypes here work. they lose something, or limit them. the issue is, they dont offer an equivalent exchange. if you are limiting the class into what it does, you better make something else it does MUCH better. It shouldnt be slightly inferior, or just the same. it should be a massive upgrade to that aspect of the class, since you are sacrificing something core to its identity.
Kinetic Sharpshooter looks enticing to me, double-tapping magnetised metal kinetic blasts with enchanted ranged weapon looks like a win.
First time i played P:KM i went kinetic knight cause i didn t know anything and i really enjoyed it also the energy scimitars look dope.
Primalist not a best pick for Bloodrager? Spicy
Haven't played a Brown Fur as a main but I don't see why it wouldn't be fun. Playing a decently strength based caster who uses magic to get even more swole and tear apart enemies with his great club, and at later levels, becoming a frikin dragon and tearing around in combat. Seems pretty fun to me. You may not be the party's main dps but that's nor a requirement for having fun with an MC.
On the fun scale, I thought it was hilarious to play a Mad Dog Barbarian Halfling charging into battle on his Mammoth.
Next I want to make a fighter who dual wields two handed weapons. Any tips on which weapon to weapon focus in?
Maybe (a) build guide (s) for the alternate story line would be useful as well?
For your Titan Fighter build, Elven curve blade and fauchard have the best crit ranges (both require exotic proficiency). Elven curve blade looks the best, while fauchard has reach. If you want to be a frontliner, take ECB. If you want to hide behind your tanks, take fauchard. Two notes: First, with the new heavy armor mythic feats, you don't really need to hide behind your tanks, and second, you probably won't want to dual wield your two-handed weapons until Mythic 2, when you can take Mythic Two-Weapon Fighting. Before that, the penalties are a little too high, so you'll probably want a shield in your offhand (or at least a small weapon). [EDIT: Oh, falchion also has a high crit range, but I don't really like the available options, so I tend to overlook it.]
Race: human (male). Class: fighter. Simple as
I'd love to see a video outlining your thoughts on base classes, with no archetype chosen. I find in a lot of games that go down the specialist rabbit hole, people end up dismissing the base class, which means there's not a lot of info out there about them.
Off the top of my head there are two cases (Kineticist and Paladin) where there is a good argument to just take the base class. Otherwise the archetypes are usually the way to go.
@@MortismalGaming Thanks for the reply Mort.
Putting aside "effectiveness", how about class fantasy?
I usually find that a lot of these archetypes diverge quite a lot from that.
Then again, I don't know how familiar you are with it, but I'm one of those oddballs who prefers playing "Core" Warrior in Guild Wars 2, because no matter what anyone says about effectiveness, it's the one Warrior variant that I enjoy playing the most, and the one that feels closest to the class fantasy.
Great overview, thank you!
On my way to become a Lich with Sylvan Sorcerer (1st playtrough) 😊 can't wait to try merged spell book .
Will probably try Dual cursed Oracle for good playtrough 😊
I made a divine scion paladin of abadar with 3 levels in sable company marine so he can ride a hippogriff. One of abadars servents is a hippogriff named old cob that probably gives out parking citations. I love pathfinder lore.
Thanks for this Dude!!
If you’re looking at sorcerers I think Sylvan is arguably the most powerful. Animal companions are so busted in this game since they can easily get teamwork feats. You don’t even have to raise their int to qualify just put on a +int headband.
For that matter any class or archetype that has access to an animal companion is busted
There's still a good case to be picking spirit hunter. Yeah Camellia has it but it's a pretty versatile class. Further more if someone's running a good aligned party there's really decent reason to suggest
*spoilers*
camellia wouldn't stay in the roster the whole game
Only one type of summon that I found useful and it is the necromancy type that summons skeletons. These skelly bois can act immediately once they been summoned. Meaning that you can IMMEDIATELY SURROUND an enemy with them and they will start to move & act right away. They are great distraction.
with a lich wizard the spell master letting you recharge your lv10 spellslot i up to 5 times is something i loved to do.
So many classes but you’ll never see 99% of them because of how bad the companion respec is in this game
Mixing Sohei with the new Ranger AT Sable Company Marine is a fun one, I promise.