Y’all should appreciate this. I spent 2 years and 30,000$ to go to school for this level of instruction and what we call “theory”. This is how we’re taught in school to be techs. Pay attention and appreciate this. You sir are doing good things. Thank you.
Man, this guy is so effective with conveying his knowledge and I am very thankful for all of it! Great information, thanks to putting in the time and effort to make educational videos.
Kevin, your advice has been invaluable in guiding me to make my 01 FXDX into my perfect ride. I went with gear drive, forged cam plate, new oil pump, Jagg cooler, .510 cams. Sorry, I just saw that we can buy parts through your shop. From now on, that's what I'll do. You're my go to program, along with Gixxer Foo for all my information. THANKS!!
Way too many people think they can just buy a kit and throw in a gear drive, and they do not understand all of the different tolerances involved. This is an excellent explanation of why you really can't just do that. I've seen shops that do it and it doesn't take long for things to go very bad.
i'm one of those low budget guys. i replaced my cam tensioners on my 2002 Electra glide classic with the stock tenioners. they lasted 28k miles & i figured i probably wouldn't put another 10k miles on this bike. i didn't want to cut the pushrods , so i disassembled from top down. it came out good, all new gaskets, 'o' rings where needed & the stock oil pump was good. i did the whole job for less than $200. i enjoyed your video & you explained it very well...
What a great technical lesson Kevin is giving us here. I still think this raises serious questions about the engine design and the old fashioned crankshaft arrangement.
I stumbled across this video just recently. In my opinion Kevin gave an excellent explanation as to the twin cam drive problem. On my last 2 twin cam bikes, the first thing I did was to bring them to my mechanic (Who I thoroughly trust) and convert to gear drive. My mechanic is the kind of guy who will not sell you something if it is not going to work. I currently ride a 2003 Electra Glide Classic. It my be 16 years old but it will out run most new bikes. It's all in the step by step build up approach. Below is my build. Torque & HP are unbelievable. I live in North Carolina and I would not hesitate to jump on it and go cross country. Ported & Polished Heads KibbleWhite Black Diamond Performance Valves (Intake & Exhaust) KibbleWhite High Lift Springs, Collars, & Keeps Ampco Valve Guides S&S 9.7/1 Pistons S&S Rocker Arms S&S Rocker Shafts Andrews EZ Install Chrome/Moly Push Rods HD High Performance Lifters Delkron Cam Plate Andrews Gear Drive Set Andrews 54G Gear Drive Cam HD Stage 1 EFI Kit Big Sucker Air Filter Dynojet Power Commander Power Tuner Rhinehart True Dual Exhaust Baker DD6 Six Speed Transmission Braided Clutch & Throttle Cables Muller Power Clutch Hats off to Kevin. Great Tech Talk and I have just subscribed to your channel.
Wow it must be nice to be able to afford that kind of build, Unfortunately I have been unemployed since I got Hep c in 2015, it took me 3 years to come up with the 100,000 for the cure, depleted my savings, and now, well lets just say I am scraping by with my 03 soft tail, and Ill be lucky to be in a position to fix it to ride this year....maybe the Harley Gods will intervene...LOL .....but I doubt it
I put S&S gear drive in my 2001 Deuce. When the motor was opened the chain tensioner were fine at 15000 mi. I loved the S&S gear drive. I put over 50k miles on it before trading it in. It took me out west twice from Kentucky. I remember the little test display by S&S sent to builders. It showed the difference in the drag on the motor. The gear drives, they were selling, turned a lot easier the cam chain tensioner system.
Great lesson in cam plates, runout, and the options one has for timing upgrades and repairs. Great video. Very easy to understand a very complex issue. Well done! Thank you for taking time to make this video
My second video, and probably my 20th on this subject, but this is the best one by a good measure. Now, if I can find someone with this level of knowledge to do mine.
Kevin, that was fantastic. I have never seen your channel or any of your videos but very glad that this one popped up on my page. I had cams and a gear drive installed on my ’04 TC at around 20k miles. I still smile when I’m riding and think about those cam tensioners being gone….peace of mind. I’m a retired professor and I’d like to commend you on a job well done. A lot of videos are auditory with very poor visuals if even present. The level of visual that you add to your clear, concise auditory makes for an excellent, informative video…you’re a born teacher. I have subscribed to your channel and plan to watch more of your videos. Thanks
I taught some math and some business but mostly Information Technology. In the '90s, as the Director of Networking, I developed a networking program that encompassed UNIX, Novell, Microsoft, Linux and several other technologies. That industry was/is very certification driven so as part of the program we helped students obtain those certification to make them more marketable as graduates. Ended up as an odd profession for me because growing up I hated school, hahaha. I didn't end up finishing my college education until my early 30's but prior to that I built custom cars for around 10 years. Working on engines was by far my favorite part. I specialized in Ford 427 Side Oilers and other Ford FE's. Just finished watching the Timken conversion, excellent!
Great video Kevin. I cant tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge with those of us who enjoy doing our own wrenching. I have never watched any of your videos with out coming away with a pearl of info. Good job.
I certainly appreciate your technical breakdown on these v-twins. Very concise. Especially for those of us whom have all the interest but never took or had the time to gather our own tangible knowledge. Your material has tremendous value. Great instruction. Thanks again.
Absolutely the best commentary on cam solutions on the internet! I've been lucky enough to run gear drive cams for the last 12k miles or so with no abnormal noises. Thanks for your excellent explanation of various options Kevin!
Awesome video. I went with a Screaming Eagle hydraulic kit on my 06 Ultra Classic. My oil pressure greatly improved even at idle. And thanks to the guy who pulled up beside me on the street and gave me a heads up on the potential issues with these model years. I had no idea. Back to the video, it was a great learning experience, as I love to learn how things work. Thank you for taking the time.
What you don’t know is... there’s heavy casting flash inside the case oil passenges. The camp late had a pressure leak at the bypass valve. They had you buy a corrected design part to fix there “recall parts!” They didn’t do you any favors bra!! Yo make things even worst. Flyby wire throttle plain suck!! They claim there’s “performance, normal and bad weather modes. I’m calling “ bulls&”):!! Just a variable $1.00 resistors built into the ecm. Nothing against you!! .. Just Harley got us good this time!! Larry
Looking strongly at a 2001 Night Train with about 16k miles on it. Was very concerned about this issue, but this video definitely helped me understand it much better. Awesome detail and thoughtfully laid out. Happy to subscribe to your channel and very much appreciate you sharing your obviously deep knowledge!
Thank you sir , you are very good at explaining what is going on and what needs to be done . I appreciate you and look forward to learning what i can from you. Thanks again
yup this is why I LOVE my OLD panheads and my shovels too. You may be faster with your TC and M8 but I just keep putting along. put put put . LOL. Did I mention I have a few ironheads? OL SKOOL.
Kevin, of all the RUclips videos I have seen on bike repair, your videos are by far the most informative. You are putting out some very, very useful information for the rest of us shade tree mechanics. Wish you were not so far away or I would bring in my bike for some improvements.
Extremely helpful video lesson, thank you. I have visited 2 dealers with my 16000 mile 2003 Road King. Neither could give me any information I could use to make a decision on which solution would be best for me. I enjoy learning about the workings of my engine.
sounds good to me i own a 2000 fatboy with 1500 actual miles and am a retired mold maker machinist with full roller cabinet of starett tools. so of course all the instructions must be followed and measurements taken which i would have not known without viewing the video. now i know what to check and when to check it to prevent my engine parts from scattering out on the road. thankyou and may the force be with you. will definately inspect the tensionizers when needed.
The 2007-2016 Twin Cams with hydraulic chain tensioners were a great motor. I sold my 2007 Road King to have a down payment on a 2020 Road Glide. I am getting use to the Road Glide but I miss that Road King a lot.
Very nicely done and so informative. This gives me more information of things to check out when I open things up in the winter months as a preventative measure and upgrading ideas. Keep doing what you're doing!
I enjoyed the video Kevin thank you. I already have the s&s 509 gear cams in my 2000 RG (which I love). And I'm chomping at the bit to compliment them with the s&s cam plate/oil pump. Also I appreciate the ballpark figures that you give on the products. It lets me know what I'm looking forward to. LOL
Ralf Headstrom I agree with your perspective completely. It's as if HD used it's customers for cost-effective R&D. From what I know about HD it's how they've been doing business since way BACK!! Also says why they have not been dependable!! That being said I got my 99' E-glide in for Gear Drive cam upgrade now and hope they are respectable enough to do their du-dilagence on the run outs and backlash inspections. I'm told it's a respectable shop out of Elgin IL. But first time customer. Kevin.....thanks, your video helps me tremendously. If it's noisy and Whinny it's probably not done right huh? I'll get back to you in that.....
this video, teaching about cam plate and cam-drive options is invaluable. years later I still refer back to it. if I lived in GA. I would drop my 01Electra glide off to you for a cam chest update. tks so much for sharing, keep em coming, and happy holidays.
How do you check the crank 'runout,' without removing the crank from the engine? The polishing wheel on a sander sounds good... The guy from S&S said you can just use 600 grit emery cloth, to polish and smooth the edges of the timing chain... The important thing being to clean, smooth and remove all the post manufacturing burrs and rough edges. That will save a tensioner shoe for a longer time!
Hi Kevin just want to say this as been massively helpful thanks for taking the time to make the video :) Learnt a load wasn't aware of the issue on the later cranks, had an 883 iron briefly before I got made redundant when the litho print company shut. Used to have to deal with backlash on gears on Heidelbergs put a smile on my face listening about that. Was just loking at tc88 engined bikes glad I watched your video before deciding what to get next Harley wise!
Thanks for the kind words. Please be sure to check out the other videos about exhaust, efi tuning, and engine oils. By your user name, you may be interested in my latest project. A modern powerplant in a 1956 Manx.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks Kevin yep I'm 30 and use a 650ss as a daily rider and am rebuilding my Norton-Villiers 68 Commando at the moment (previous owner left blast media in the cylinder head) luckily takes a bit to kill these Norton's so I caught it just in time. Looking forward to seeing how the manxious project progresses! I'll check the other videos out never stop learning in life :)
As a dedicated Harley Touring bike owner, listening to this and many other tech problem solvers (all with the best intentions) makes me want to trade my baby in on a Honda.
Thanks Kevin. That video was very well explained and super informative. I own a 2008 twin cam and just bought a 2019 114 m8. But looking as a former mechanic to get into bikes on the side for some extra cash and to help those with older bike's that dealers are shying away from cause bike's to old thank's again well explained
Thank you for this video! This reinforces why I don't ride or own Harley's. I've owned and still own imports and have had no problems in thousands of miles. Too much mechanical drama with Harley.
I came across your channel and thought... This guy is pretty sharp... then I thought... Pro Twin Performance... that sounds familiar... Turns out that your shop was just down the street and you sold me some parts to finish my handle bar swap and threw in some pointers and how to's for free...Top Notch.
When Harley Davidson Knew they had trouble with the chain tension on the 1999 to 2006 they should of had a recall , but no they let it fall on the Buyer . the Crank shaft eating out the crankcase when the end play was over 5th the Timken bearings wobble . They let all this fall on the guys & Gals, they knew at 40 thousand miles it fail . Same with the Compensating spring . Clutch hubs . 40,000 miles is not half the life span . They should of did a recall no matter the miles , And Harley is running them self in the Hole , last 3 years they have been in the Red . I have owned 3 evo engine Trouble free till 80 - 90,000 miles rebuild Im glad I did not get the 2008 TC Ultra glide . it had 8 thousand miles for 12 grand . to rebuild everything looking at 10 grand more . Its a Shame when you know it will fail but let it go on the road till its out of warranty .
Those are the exact reasons why Harley will never make a come back!! They used “screamin eagles” line to sell design correction parts. We’ve moved on and so should Harley. Larry
The throttle body butterfly shafts also fail, and the parts are discontinued, although HD took six months to let us know. Another year off the road, what a joke of a company, totally reliant on independent engineers and after-market suppliers to pick up their woeful mess.
So fuckin true put a recall out! So we can fix the shit before the big money. $1850 than $2250 over bearings they knew would fail, and the tensioner would fail, I heard that thru RUclips i changed it. Now when you purchase a bike you better look at the history thank god for you tube and the techs getting us the info.
@@KevinBaxter My local Cycle Shop is a brother and we are checking crank runout Monday. I get to work with him and learn. If the runout is .003 or less were ordering a complete S&S geardrive, camchest upgrade. I have a 2003 FXDWG with 11k on clock. I was hearing so much about the 510 cams, but I dont twist it often. I like the low go torque, so thinking the 509 cams.. What would you suggest ? Thanks !!
Good job. I would only note that true way to get 100% accurate valve timing would be a cam and lifter directly under the push rod cup end of the rocker arm. Twin cam was an improvement over the Evo's pushrod angle but since the penny pinchers at HD added 4 more valves and an oil cooler to the M8 lets forget all the marketing about the more accurate valve timing that second cam provided and they went back to one cam. I also like the earlier design of the cam plate that accommodated bearings. You dont know how many guys that wanted gear drives cams and I had to pop their bubble about their pinion shat run out. Convincing them of all the work that had to be done to true the crank was a whole ordeal
@@KevinBaxter Looking at doing s&s .583 cams in my 2014 Wide Glide. Was already planning on chain drive because of the issues you talked about. But now I know to check run out regardless. Do you suggest putting a new compensator in while doing cams? Looking at Baker compensator.
I have been thinking since the first cam tensioner replacement, I want a gear driven set up. Awesome explanation on pros and cons. BTW I have a 99 twin cam with 100K miles and no real issues
When I bought my 05 Dyna I knew that for piece of mind I would have to address the tensioner issue . After researching the hydraulic vs gear drive solutions I looked at the Screaming eagle billet cam plate setup and it seemed to me to be the best solution for me because I'm not that interested in ultimate horsepower what I needed was longevity. So not having to deal with problems with backlash with a gear drive was not something I wanted to deal with . I ran a gear drive in a small block Chevy and it was noisy and I felt the roller chain would be fine with what I wanted to achieve which was reliability and long engine life so I'm happy with my decision . If my goals were more performance oriented then gears would have been the way I would have gone . After watching this video and finding out about the cheaper option of polishing the chain I'm still convinced I did the right thing for me . Great video 👍
Properly set up, gear drive can be very quiet but as you said, it's not absolutely necessary and not a requirement for every build or budget. Thanks for watching.
When I was watching Kevins video I was thinking about that small block chevy set up with the gears on each side of the driven and drive gears. I think a setup like that on a smaller scale, to fit a harley, might solve the problem of runout. As far as noise......its a Harley....they are loud!
Harley twin cam should have come straight from the factory with gear drives and not chain drive chain drive are a messy way to run an engine and when they go break there goes your engine all my got bikes died from cam chain disease my gear Drive Sportster has 350 thousand miles on her bike still runs great
Im glad for your straightforwardness, your videos. Whats been bother me is my "sloppy cam sprocket" on the crank pinion. Even whem measuring run out since you can see visibly that end is worn from the sprocket. Rn im in a dilema as what to do, i have two motors trying to make one solid one. The issue ive mentioned, im yet to decide what to do. Also i am definitely on a budget so this is a very slow build.
not really a cheap way to fix that. if the pinion is worn and a new sprocket doesnt cure it....it's time for a crank. not aware of anyone that makes a "tighter" fitting one....depends on how bad it is.
I try to read all the comments and your replies to see if my questions has already been answered (and there are always diamonds hidden in there).... But So Many comments on this one!!!! That said; I'm in San Diego (year round riding) and have known about the Run Out issues for a while. Question - How do I find a mechanic/motorcycle shop that I can trust to know the right way to check crank run out? Are there questions I can ask them that will reveal their knowledge base or commitment to quality? I would really like to know the status of my engine for future plans and to know what the future holds longevity wise.
I would hope that if you called any shop and tell them you want gear drive installed, they would tell you without you having to ask, that they need to check run out first, and give you other options. If they don't, ask what all they do when they install it.
After going in my cam chest three times to check pump install, replace spring and polish plunger. This video has me convinced that my runout or .008 is my issue with oil pressure at idle.
@@mobilemechanix1 yea. I ended up finding the issue. It was the ring that goes around the crank shaft, the camate didn’t have it so it was unable to build pressure. Shop didn’t take responsibility for the install of a defective part. Harley master mechanic confirmed.
You really got me thinking now. I currently have 2007 FLHRC and I'm about to up grade to the S&S 107ci or 110ci kit. Cam plate pump heads the whole 9yrds and I was looking at Andrews 67h gear driven cams.
Subbed. I get it now, perfectly. My tensioners are excellent right now, but will look to gear drive when time to replace. My RK has 50K miles right now. Excellent instruction video, thank you!
@Jim Edward my hydraulic tensioners at 68K miles looked like they should have been replaced a while ago. deep groves into the shoes, I am certain it was affecting timing.
@@jimedward8908 yes. actually My crank ended up being out of spec on my 09 TC and Kevin is getting my cases this week and building a blueprinted 107" for me with a Man O War Darkhorse Crank, S&S cam chest (gear drives), etc. That livestream on cranks that he just did with John from Darkhorse was awesome. Lengthy, but such good information. Hard to get guys like this in a room and then get them to tell you all you ever wanted to know about motor building like that. I'm super stoked.
@@hdlstns wow, you will get a big fun-factor bump in your riding once you twist the throttle on the new motor. I agree, to get exposure to their knowledge is incredible. Have fun on your new 107!
Great background information. Well done! I have been looking into options as I own two TC bikes. On inspection, my 2003 RK at 20K miles still looks good, very little wear. My 2005 Deluxe only has 9K miles, so I have not inspected. Nice to have options for the fix, but my understanding is the hydraulic tensioners will wear at 50K miles, so with that mod you may still be looking at problems down the road. Although I have enjoyed both bikes, I believe this is something HD should have fixed for their customers. I am looking at buying my next bike in soon and I will not even consider HD. Great way for a company to lose repeat business.
I view my '99 TC engine and transmission as an oil distribution assembly. Some of the oil is for internal components, some is to stop the baking trays under it from going rusty.
Great video Kevin. Thanks for the knowledge. As an older mechanic and machine builder my question is this. Are there any pre 06 models that do not have tensioner wear ? Such as having better chains installed at the factory. My 04 with 48,000 probably should come apart. Simple enough. Thanks again.
Good question. I'm hesitant to answer with fear some will read it and disregard concern. That being said, I dont recall exactly which year, I think it was 04, they seemed to have changed the manufacturing process for the cam chains. The links had less of a rough edge from the die stamping process for the individual links. Didnt seem to be as rough. Regardless, check em at 20,000 miles.
Awesome video. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Really enjoyed it. I’m considering buying a 2000-2006 Harley and going through the engine. Your video saved me many head scratches and headaches. Thank you.
You're welcome Tim. Thanks for watching. I would highly recommend an 06 over all years. EFI was great. Trans great. Primary great. Yeah an 02 had Timken bearing cases, but if you're going thru the engine anyway, I wouldnt sweat that. Too many reasons to list why on the 06 really.
@@jezzr4431 yes, we were down on cape cod in hyannnis ma., went into what i thought was a harley dealer on main st and it turned out to be a clothing store. the kid behind the counter didn't know much about bikes.
Great learning curve..for me it was anyway..i love learning new things like this..its like learning a new "trick of the trade" thanks mate..They say it's what you learn after you already know everything that counts👍👍
On that conversion for earlier twin cam, cam plate. I have a 2001 twin cam engine with the 2007 later cam plate set up in it, with the roller chains, sprockets,hydraulic tenshinors,high volume oil pump and went with Fueling Reaper 543 conversion cam they make to fit the early twin cam engine, cam journels. Works fine.
@@steveperry1344 I used these. www.ebay.com/i/141300109678?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=141300109678&targetid=484372169279&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9011742&poi=&campaignid=8085362375&mkgroupid=83473594796&rlsatarget=pla-484372169279&abcId=1139446&merchantid=6331264&gclid=CjwKCAiA3uDwBRBFEiwA1VsajKiD_dt2zIAvLC-qHuC1jI1sHuM7a0rnpipqtpRFYBv6YmFbKrayNBoC8xUQAvD_BwE
Harley stopped using the timken bearing on the left side to save costs, it supported the output shaft much better. They had problems with the compensator failing also with there cam tensioners failing. Wouldn't be better if they put a solid forged crank, and side by side connecting rods on one journal, and babbitt bearings with a high volume oil pump? Keep the 45 degree angle and single crank pin for that sound. You would be able to build them up without flywheels pressed together shifting.
Great Video and very informative in more ways than one. with so much variation in the amount of runout in the crank shaft, between 3 - 12 thousandths of an inch, is this a reflection on HD's inability to machine to tolerances. I mean its not even close. How do you know if the HD that you've bought has an out of balance crank and is slowly destroying your engine without stripping it down and checking for excessive runout ? Realistically, for what you are paying for a HD, these problems shouldn't exist. You convert to gear drive to overcome a shitty chain drive and tensioner and there's no guarantee you can, because HD did a shitty job on your crank and it has too much runout.
I couldnt agree more Stuart. And that was my point from the get go. I have no problem saying they build complete shit period. They have been living off of a myth for years. The only reason they even exist now is due to all the wananbes who spent money on them in the 80's and 90's. Now that all of thoses people dont have money the market got flooded with used Hardleys dirt cheap. If even a 1/4 of those posers rode more than 1500 miles in five years they would have been exposed even sooner. Ive been riding all my life. And I have had about 1 of almost every brand. The bottom line is I ride because its my choice of transportation. So to me its no different than buying a car. I like performance so that takes a big bite out of the choices i prefer. If you want a good car and like something that performs you would buy a Yogo would you? exactly. So Why would i buy a hardley? The last thing i want to do when i need to go somewhere is half to work on my ride for 2 hrs before i can leave. And dont think for a minute they dont have the option. They have chose to produce shit because profits are bigger and relying on people to continue to buy your shit because the image is cool can only last so long. Sorry old faithful patriots I am American as they come. Even more reason to say what i am. they have a choice and so do I . They are the typical American as sad as it is to say GREED AND NO PRIDE Fuck Harley, when they produce a bike worth my hard earned cash I may consider but truth be told not a fuckin chance ill be dead before they come close to getting it right.
@@ednorton1853 I've often wondered why when you go online to look at bikes for sale, there are twice as many Harleys for sale than any other brand.... I agree with your comments whole heartedly, it's why I ride a V Star 1300, Just thumb the starter and go. Harleys in Australia are insanely expensive for what you get, then you have to spend a shit load on them to get the same performance as a stock M109R. At more than half the price. $20k buys a lot of gas. 😁😁
Went direct chain drive new gears rods, cranks everything was totally worth it my mechanic is a1 nutz and bolts in Spfld, Mo next to Kevin no better had 88 TC runs like top no worry’s now
Thank you for all your time and efforts that you have and continue to upload great videos.Kevin if things have improved over there with logistic issues would you be prepared to ship parts to Australia ?, Alex
Super fantastic video Kevin!. Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge. you cover so many angles for different budgets its crazy, wealth of knowledge right here in this video, about to do a cam upgrade and was looking for more info about run-out and couldn't be more happier to find this. i am now subbed. Riding an M8 2019 Streetglide with 15,000miles on it and say i have 0.0029 run out, i have the budget and i would like to go gear drive, you mentioned it would last, BUT wouldn't wear & tear increase my run out over the next few years and cause problems to my gear set-up? TIA
as long as the crank doesnt shift, it should stay where it is now. Backlash setup will be critical. I did a part 2 to this video explaining that. When you decide to pull the trigger, please consider us when you decide to buy the parts. Glad to hear the runout is in spec and thank you for the kind words.
The chain that he is showing from the first-year twin cams is a hypho chain of the same type used to connect crankshaft with transmission in Japanese motorcycles also used in a lot of Automotive applications very reliable except in Harley's case Harley went to chain drive so they could use substandard parts and crank out 30,000 more bikes a year winter gear drive and pushrods like an EVO your engine parts have to be much more strict engine parts that are too tall or Too Short the chain tensioner takes up the slack cheap and nasty way of running a valve train and when the chain goes snap the Piston comes and kisses the valve that will ruin your Jay for sure
after watching this video for the second time thru, when you said "there is really no substitute for 100% accurate valve timing" it sunk in why I should want gear drive cams, especially on a perfect crank
Royal Enfield got around this (in their singles) by using eccentric bushes w/locknuts so you could individually adjust the backlash for each cam and the pump drive in the gearset. But I suppose chains are cheaper.
That was a great informative video...and it makes me want to go out and hug my 98 Harley springer with the tried and true 80 evo, thanks again it sure does bring light to the engines produced from 99 to 07.
I was about to do the g.drive, until I realized the flywheel is pressed together.im returning it. That just seems like the f.wheels could be a serious problem.. another great video Kevin.
I’m an old guy and have not owned a Harley for at least 25 years. In my early days I had connections in Mexico and would import old Harley's' from there. It was a fun side business for me, importing Knuckle heads, Pan heads, Shovel heads, even a couple of old Indians. Yeah, some of it was crap and some of it was really nice. I did a lot of wrenching in those days, but I gave it all up and settled into real career and raising a family. I retired a few years back and I’ve been debating with myself whether I should get another bike. My best friend recently found an old dusty shovel head and he’s about to buy it. That did it for me...Now I’ve got the hots for another bike. I have spent the past month on the internet looking at late model Harley's' with low mileage. I’ve been away for so long, it’s all new technology, twin cam engines, 5 and 6 speed transmissions, monster motors, cruise control, all of it is totally amazing to me...I'm like a kid in a candy store! I’ve picked out maybe 20 or 30 bikes that fit my budget and had the looks I liked. I purposely avoided the older bikes because I don't want to spend my time wrenching, I want to ride. I finally settled on a 2005 Fat Boy CVO. The price is where I can afford it and it has only 12,000 miles on it. I have the cash in hand, ready to close the deal and NOW I SEE THIS VIDEO! GREAT VIDEO, my compliments to Kevin Baxter of Pro Twin Performance… But what a GREAT BIG RED FLAG on buying a late model Harley...NOT A CHANCE!!!
Go get that shovel before your bud get is. I got 77shovel in aftermarket frame and a wide springer. Those big inch motors ain't shit my motor is pretty worked to run and be able to take a beating and stay together and I just cleaned up some clown on a 103" bagger darn fool pulls next to me at a light and starts revving. Well the light went green and the Andrews F grind was gone hit rev limiter 1st-3rd never seen him again
@@kurtking5913 Hi Kurt This is Mike, I recently picked up a beautifully customized 1996 Heritage. The motor has been reworked and it flys! I mean fast beyond belief! I don’t know anything about what has been done to the motor, but performance wise, it’s amazing... But it has a problem, it vibrates horribly above 3500 rpm. I have looked into possible causes and have come up with a list of about 20 items that might be corrected without taking the motor apart. I have talked to one of the better known aftermarket HD mechanics in the San Diego area and he thinks that I should first check all the items on my list and then if nothing fixes the problem, he suggests that it is the inherent weakness in the Harley Flywheels. According to him they are notorious for getting out of “true” if they are over-revved. And if that is the problem, then the best fix is to do a teardown and replace the wheels with a set of S&S wheels. Beautiful bike, great disappointment so far... Oh well, it’s only money...
Excellent presentation of the problems and the multiple solutions available considering budget constraints. Now a question regarding model years. I am in the market for a Heritage Softail and because the budget will only allow an older model, what model years based on experience should I avoid knowing that I will have to do one of the three options you spoke about to correct the inherent flawed design and manufacture defect?
Great question. 02 was a great year. 06 was also a great year. I'd suggest pre 2007 because you can get great deals. No crank issues. 5spd was good. Avoid magneti morelli EFI.
@@KevinBaxter Thank you Kevin, that will substantially help to narrow the field. Considering I am 72 and have been riding for many years, I think if I can get something that will not require major rebuild for 50,000 miles I will consider it a lifetime warranty. lol
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Y’all should appreciate this. I spent 2 years and 30,000$ to go to school for this level of instruction and what we call “theory”. This is how we’re taught in school to be techs. Pay attention and appreciate this. You sir are doing good things. Thank you.
Thank you very much sir. I appreciate the kind words.
Yea thanks I'm thinking of making the change .Found a deal on some after market gear driven cams
Kevin Baxter. How I wish you were my local mechanic!
Thank you sir.
Man, this guy is so effective with conveying his knowledge and I am very thankful for all of it! Great information, thanks to putting in the time and effort to make educational videos.
Kevin, your advice has been invaluable in guiding me to make my 01 FXDX into my perfect ride. I went with gear drive, forged cam plate, new oil pump, Jagg cooler, .510 cams. Sorry, I just saw that we can buy parts through your shop. From now on, that's what I'll do. You're my go to program, along with Gixxer Foo for all my information. THANKS!!
Way too many people think they can just buy a kit and throw in a gear drive, and they do not understand all of the different tolerances involved. This is an excellent explanation of why you really can't just do that. I've seen shops that do it and it doesn't take long for things to go very bad.
i'm one of those low budget guys. i replaced my cam tensioners on my 2002 Electra glide classic with the stock tenioners. they lasted 28k miles & i figured i probably wouldn't put another 10k miles on this bike. i didn't want to cut the pushrods , so i disassembled from top down. it came out good, all new gaskets, 'o' rings where needed & the stock oil pump was good. i did the whole job for less than $200. i enjoyed your video & you explained it very well...
great job terry. thanks for posting!
What a great technical lesson Kevin is giving us here. I still think this raises serious questions about the engine design and the old fashioned crankshaft arrangement.
I stumbled across this video just recently. In my opinion Kevin gave an excellent explanation as to the twin cam drive problem. On my last 2 twin cam bikes, the first thing I did was to bring them to my mechanic (Who I thoroughly trust) and convert to gear drive. My mechanic is the kind of guy who will not sell you something if it is not going to work.
I currently ride a 2003 Electra Glide Classic. It my be 16 years old but it will out run most new bikes. It's all in the step by step build up approach. Below is my build. Torque & HP are unbelievable. I live in North Carolina and I would not hesitate to jump on it and go cross country.
Ported & Polished Heads
KibbleWhite Black Diamond Performance Valves (Intake & Exhaust)
KibbleWhite High Lift Springs, Collars, & Keeps
Ampco Valve Guides
S&S 9.7/1 Pistons
S&S Rocker Arms
S&S Rocker Shafts
Andrews EZ Install Chrome/Moly Push Rods
HD High Performance Lifters
Delkron Cam Plate
Andrews Gear Drive Set
Andrews 54G Gear Drive Cam
HD Stage 1 EFI Kit
Big Sucker Air Filter
Dynojet Power Commander Power Tuner
Rhinehart True Dual Exhaust
Baker DD6 Six Speed Transmission
Braided Clutch & Throttle Cables
Muller Power Clutch
Hats off to Kevin. Great Tech Talk and I have just subscribed to your channel.
Thanks for the kind words and for following the channel Paul. Good on ya for keeping that 2003 rolling. I kick myself everyday for selling my 2006.
Wow it must be nice to be able to afford that kind of build, Unfortunately I have been unemployed since I got Hep c in 2015, it took me 3 years to come up with the 100,000 for the cure, depleted my savings, and now, well lets just say I am scraping by with my 03 soft tail, and Ill be lucky to be in a position to fix it to ride this year....maybe the Harley Gods will intervene...LOL .....but I doubt it
Another fantastic class at Baxter University - thank you, Professor! 👍
I put S&S gear drive in my 2001 Deuce. When the motor was opened the chain tensioner were fine at 15000 mi. I loved the S&S gear drive. I put over 50k miles on it before trading it in. It took me out west twice from Kentucky. I remember the little test display by S&S sent to builders. It showed the difference in the drag on the motor. The gear drives, they were selling, turned a lot easier the cam chain tensioner system.
Great lesson in cam plates, runout, and the options one has for timing upgrades and repairs. Great video. Very easy to understand a very complex issue. Well done! Thank you for taking time to make this video
Thank you for taking the time to comment and for your kind words. Glad it was useful. Have many many more videos posted.
@@KevinBaxter I liked and subscribed! I'll search for others and keep an eye on any new ones you make for sure! Thanks again!
The MOST in depth explanation of flywheel runout,thanks so much
You are welcome! Thank you for watching. Glad it helps.
My second video, and probably my 20th on this subject, but this is the best one by a good measure. Now, if I can find someone with this level of knowledge to do mine.
Kevin, that was fantastic. I have never seen your channel or any of your videos but very glad that this one popped up on my page.
I had cams and a gear drive installed on my ’04 TC at around 20k miles. I still smile when I’m riding and think about those cam tensioners being gone….peace of mind.
I’m a retired professor and I’d like to commend you on a job well done. A lot of videos are auditory with very poor visuals if even present. The level of visual that you add to your clear, concise auditory makes for an excellent, informative video…you’re a born teacher.
I have subscribed to your channel and plan to watch more of your videos.
Thanks
Very kind words Sir....thank you! If I may ask, what was your chosen career subject as a professor?
I taught some math and some business but mostly Information Technology. In the '90s, as the Director of Networking, I developed a networking program that encompassed UNIX, Novell, Microsoft, Linux and several other technologies. That industry was/is very certification driven so as part of the program we helped students obtain those certification to make them more marketable as graduates.
Ended up as an odd profession for me because growing up I hated school, hahaha. I didn't end up finishing my college education until my early 30's but prior to that I built custom cars for around 10 years. Working on engines was by far my favorite part. I specialized in Ford 427 Side Oilers and other Ford FE's.
Just finished watching the Timken conversion, excellent!
Great video Kevin. I cant tell you how much I appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge with those of us who enjoy doing our own wrenching. I have never watched any of your videos with out coming away with a pearl of info. Good job.
Thank you very much for the kind words, following, and sharing sir. I greatly appreciate it.
I certainly appreciate your technical breakdown on these v-twins. Very concise. Especially for those of us whom have all the interest but never took or had the time to gather our own tangible knowledge. Your material has tremendous value. Great instruction. Thanks again.
Absolutely the best commentary on cam solutions on the internet! I've been lucky enough to run gear drive cams for the last 12k miles or so with no abnormal noises. Thanks for your excellent explanation of various options Kevin!
Thank you for the kind words and for following! Please check out my others on various topics.
Awesome video. I went with a Screaming Eagle hydraulic kit on my 06 Ultra Classic. My oil pressure greatly improved even at idle. And thanks to the guy who pulled up beside me on the street and gave me a heads up on the potential issues with these model years. I had no idea. Back to the video, it was a great learning experience, as I love to learn how things work. Thank you for taking the time.
Thanks for watching and for the kind words. Appreciate it.
What you don’t know is... there’s heavy casting flash inside the case oil passenges.
The camp late had a pressure leak at the bypass valve.
They had you buy a corrected design part to fix there “recall parts!”
They didn’t do you any favors bra!!
Yo make things even worst. Flyby wire throttle plain suck!! They claim there’s “performance, normal and bad weather modes. I’m calling “ bulls&”):!! Just a variable $1.00 resistors built into the ecm. Nothing against you!!
.. Just Harley got us good this time!!
Larry
Such a great video!
Thanks Kevin, for your knowledge!
(My eyes and ears, are just like glued to your experience/explanations/videos!)
Chain drive is ultimately more forgiving of H-D's poor manufacturing...thank you for this great video!
Looking strongly at a 2001 Night Train with about 16k miles on it. Was very concerned about this issue, but this video definitely helped me understand it much better. Awesome detail and thoughtfully laid out. Happy to subscribe to your channel and very much appreciate you sharing your obviously deep knowledge!
Thank you sir , you are very good at explaining what is going on and what needs to be done . I appreciate you and look forward to learning what i can from you. Thanks again
yup this is why I LOVE my OLD panheads and my shovels too. You may be faster with your TC and M8 but I just keep putting along. put put put . LOL. Did I mention I have a few ironheads? OL SKOOL.
Kevin, of all the RUclips videos I have seen on bike repair, your videos are by far the most informative. You are putting out some very, very useful information for the rest of us shade tree mechanics. Wish you were not so far away or I would bring in my bike for some improvements.
Thanks a million for the kind words and for the sub. Hope it continues to help you. All the best!
Extremely helpful video lesson, thank you. I have visited 2 dealers with my 16000 mile 2003 Road King. Neither could give me any information I could use to make a decision on which solution would be best for me. I enjoy learning about the workings of my engine.
@ 29:32 Exactly what i was thinking , why not polish the chain !! Great work Kevin.
Wow you just gave us a college level education course. Thank you so much please keep the vids coming. Thank you also for not fluffing the videos🙏🙏🙏🤘🤘🤘
sounds good to me i own a 2000 fatboy with 1500 actual miles and am a retired mold maker machinist with full roller cabinet of starett tools. so of course all the instructions must be followed and measurements taken which i would have not known without viewing the video. now i know what to check and when to check it to prevent my engine parts from scattering out on the road. thankyou and may the force be with you. will definately inspect the tensionizers when needed.
Thanks Kevin. I appreciate you look at budgets. For some of us that is a key determining factor it what we do. Great information.
The 2007-2016 Twin Cams with hydraulic chain tensioners were a great motor. I sold my 2007 Road King to have a down payment on a 2020 Road Glide. I am getting use to the Road Glide but I miss that Road King a lot.
Very nicely done and so informative. This gives me more information of things to check out when I open things up in the winter months as a preventative measure and upgrading ideas. Keep doing what you're doing!
Glad it was helpful!
Loads of excellent info. I know it takes time/effort to publish this stuff but it really helps some of us civilians so thank you sir!
Thanks for the kind words and for subscribing.
Thank you Sir! I love all your educational videos. You are a great instructor and I’m learning so much from you.
This is the most thorough, best explanation of this issue.
Thank you sir.
Great explanations. Thoroughly enjoyed .. worth watching and listening repeatedly
Very much worth the time to watch the entire video!
I enjoyed the video Kevin thank you.
I already have the s&s 509 gear cams in my 2000 RG (which I love).
And I'm chomping at the bit to compliment them with the s&s cam plate/oil pump. Also I appreciate the ballpark figures that you give on the products. It lets me know what I'm looking forward to. LOL
Ralf Headstrom I agree with your perspective completely. It's as if HD used it's customers for cost-effective R&D. From what I know about HD it's how they've been doing business since way BACK!! Also says why they have not been dependable!! That being said I got my 99' E-glide in for Gear Drive cam upgrade now and hope they are respectable enough to do their du-dilagence on the run outs and backlash inspections. I'm told it's a respectable shop out of Elgin IL. But first time customer. Kevin.....thanks, your video helps me tremendously. If it's noisy and Whinny it's probably not done right huh? I'll get back to you in that.....
this video, teaching about cam plate and cam-drive options is invaluable. years later I still refer back to it. if I lived in GA. I would drop my 01Electra glide off to you for a cam chest update. tks so much for sharing, keep em coming, and happy holidays.
Excellent video,,amazing that people don’t consider runout in any crankshaft measurement both sides also..
Thank you for the video
You've saved me a lot of money and bad decisions. Bought my first harley 2 days ago and needed to get some info
How do you check the crank 'runout,' without removing the crank from the engine?
The polishing wheel on a sander sounds good... The guy from S&S said you can just use 600 grit emery cloth, to polish and smooth the edges of the timing chain...
The important thing being to clean, smooth and remove all the post manufacturing burrs and rough edges. That will save a tensioner shoe for a longer time!
Removing the cam plate, then place a dial indicator on the pinion shaft where it goes thru the cam plate. Agree on the second part.
@@KevinBaxter So, you put the dial on the end of the pinion and turn it to see the throw outs and throw ins?
Exactly.
Hi Kevin just want to say this as been massively helpful thanks for taking the time to make the video :) Learnt a load wasn't aware of the issue on the later cranks, had an 883 iron briefly before I got made redundant when the litho print company shut. Used to have to deal with backlash on gears on Heidelbergs put a smile on my face listening about that. Was just loking at tc88 engined bikes glad I watched your video before deciding what to get next Harley wise!
Thanks for the kind words. Please be sure to check out the other videos about exhaust, efi tuning, and engine oils. By your user name, you may be interested in my latest project. A modern powerplant in a 1956 Manx.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks Kevin yep I'm 30 and use a 650ss as a daily rider and am rebuilding my Norton-Villiers 68 Commando at the moment (previous owner left blast media in the cylinder head) luckily takes a bit to kill these Norton's so I caught it just in time. Looking forward to seeing how the manxious project progresses! I'll check the other videos out never stop learning in life :)
Used to have a '41 chief, alot more dependable than ANY other motorcycle I ever owned- wish I had it now!
Watching your videos from over here in Germany. Your amount of knowledge is amazing. Thank you for the information. 😁
Thank you sir! Appreciate your support.
As a dedicated Harley Touring bike owner, listening to this and many other tech problem solvers (all with the best intentions) makes me want to trade my baby in on a Honda.
No American feeling with Honda ..ok?..
Great teacher. Easy to follow and very informative!!
Thanks Kevin. That video was very well explained and super informative. I own a 2008 twin cam and just bought a 2019 114 m8. But looking as a former mechanic to get into bikes on the side for some extra cash and to help those with older bike's that dealers are shying away from cause bike's to old thank's again well explained
Thank you sir!
Thank you for this video! This reinforces why I don't ride or own Harley's. I've owned and still own imports and have had no problems in thousands of miles. Too much mechanical drama with Harley.
Thanks for watching and following
I came across your channel and thought... This guy is pretty sharp... then I thought... Pro Twin Performance... that sounds familiar... Turns out that your shop was just down the street and you sold me some parts to finish my handle bar swap and threw in some pointers and how to's for free...Top Notch.
Thank you sir!
When Harley Davidson Knew they had trouble with the chain tension on the 1999 to 2006 they should of had a recall , but no they let it fall on the Buyer . the Crank shaft eating out the crankcase when the end play was over 5th the Timken bearings wobble . They let all this fall on the guys & Gals, they knew at 40 thousand miles it fail . Same with the Compensating spring . Clutch hubs . 40,000 miles is not half the life span . They should of did a recall no matter the miles , And Harley is running them self in the Hole , last 3 years they have been in the Red . I have owned 3 evo engine Trouble free till 80 - 90,000 miles rebuild Im glad I did not get the 2008 TC Ultra glide . it had 8 thousand miles for 12 grand . to rebuild everything looking at 10 grand more . Its a Shame when you know it will fail but let it go on the road till its out of warranty .
Those are the exact reasons why Harley will never make a come back!!
They used “screamin eagles” line to sell design correction parts.
We’ve moved on and so should Harley.
Larry
The throttle body butterfly shafts also fail, and the parts are discontinued, although HD took six months to let us know. Another year off the road, what a joke of a company, totally reliant on independent engineers and after-market suppliers to pick up their woeful mess.
Wow! That's a lot of money to fix someone else's mistakes. What a way to treat the people who pay your wages. Glad I don't own a Hardly.
I still have my evo FXR, but I walked away from Harley otherwise years ago. My modern triumph has been problem free since day one.
So fuckin true put a recall out! So we can fix the shit before the big money. $1850 than $2250 over bearings they knew would fail, and the tensioner would fail, I heard that thru RUclips i changed it. Now when you purchase a bike you better look at the history thank god for you tube and the techs getting us the info.
Absolutely, the best description and information ever !
Glad you think so! Thank you sir.
@@KevinBaxter My local Cycle Shop is a brother and we are checking crank runout Monday. I get to work with him and learn. If the runout is .003 or less were ordering a complete S&S geardrive, camchest upgrade. I have a 2003 FXDWG with 11k on clock. I was hearing so much about the 510 cams, but I dont twist it often. I like the low go torque, so thinking the 509 cams.. What would you suggest ? Thanks !!
I did the runout today. It was, at or just above, .0025 .. Everything was looking very clean and no scoring on cam lobes.
Good job. I would only note that true way to get 100% accurate valve timing would be a cam and lifter directly under the push rod cup end of the rocker arm. Twin cam was an improvement over the Evo's pushrod angle but since the penny pinchers at HD added 4 more valves and an oil cooler to the M8 lets forget all the marketing about the more accurate valve timing that second cam provided and they went back to one cam. I also like the earlier design of the cam plate that accommodated bearings. You dont know how many guys that wanted gear drives cams and I had to pop their bubble about their pinion shat run out. Convincing them of all the work that had to be done to true the crank was a whole ordeal
What a great video, got a much better understanding of whats going on in my motor now. Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
@@KevinBaxter Looking at doing s&s .583 cams in my 2014 Wide Glide. Was already planning on chain drive because of the issues you talked about. But now I know to check run out regardless. Do you suggest putting a new compensator in while doing cams? Looking at Baker compensator.
If its clunky or worn, absolutely. Otherwise, run what you have for a while. Itll need one at some point.
I have been thinking since the first cam tensioner replacement, I want a gear driven set up. Awesome explanation on pros and cons. BTW I have a 99 twin cam with 100K miles and no real issues
When I bought my 05 Dyna I knew that for piece of mind I would have to address the tensioner issue .
After researching the hydraulic vs gear drive solutions I looked at the Screaming eagle billet cam plate setup and it seemed to me to be the best solution for me because I'm not that interested in ultimate horsepower what I needed was longevity.
So not having to deal with problems with backlash with a gear drive was not something I wanted to deal with .
I ran a gear drive in a small block Chevy and it was noisy and I felt the roller chain would be fine with what I wanted to achieve which was reliability and long engine life so I'm happy with my decision .
If my goals were more performance oriented then gears would have been the way I would have gone .
After watching this video and finding out about the cheaper option of polishing the chain I'm still convinced I did the right thing for me .
Great video 👍
Properly set up, gear drive can be very quiet but as you said, it's not absolutely necessary and not a requirement for every build or budget. Thanks for watching.
When I was watching Kevins video I was thinking about that small block chevy set up with the gears on each side of the driven and drive gears. I think a setup like that on a smaller scale, to fit a harley, might solve the problem of runout. As far as noise......its a Harley....they are loud!
Harley twin cam should have come straight from the factory with gear drives and not chain drive chain drive are a messy way to run an engine and when they go break there goes your engine all my got bikes died from cam chain disease my gear Drive Sportster has 350 thousand miles on her bike still runs great
Im glad for your straightforwardness, your videos. Whats been bother me is my "sloppy cam sprocket" on the crank pinion. Even whem measuring run out since you can see visibly that end is worn from the sprocket. Rn im in a dilema as what to do, i have two motors trying to make one solid one. The issue ive mentioned, im yet to decide what to do. Also i am definitely on a budget so this is a very slow build.
not really a cheap way to fix that. if the pinion is worn and a new sprocket doesnt cure it....it's time for a crank. not aware of anyone that makes a "tighter" fitting one....depends on how bad it is.
Thanks!
Now I'm an expert on explaining this thank you so much Kevin. I think I might ship my bike to you from my country if I needed the change.. :)
I try to read all the comments and your replies to see if my questions has already been answered (and there are always diamonds hidden in there).... But So Many comments on this one!!!! That said; I'm in San Diego (year round riding) and have known about the Run Out issues for a while. Question - How do I find a mechanic/motorcycle shop that I can trust to know the right way to check crank run out? Are there questions I can ask them that will reveal their knowledge base or commitment to quality? I would really like to know the status of my engine for future plans and to know what the future holds longevity wise.
I would hope that if you called any shop and tell them you want gear drive installed, they would tell you without you having to ask, that they need to check run out first, and give you other options. If they don't, ask what all they do when they install it.
I now understand ‘runout’.
Big Thank You!
Youre welcome. Glad it was helpful.
Better to learn about run-out in the video than through a bad motor.
Great explaination! I always learn a lot of your video’s. Thankyou! You sure have great knowledge of it all. Keep on with this good stuff. 👍👍
After going in my cam chest three times to check pump install, replace spring and polish plunger. This video has me convinced that my runout or .008 is my issue with oil pressure at idle.
most likely is.....or a contributing factor for sure.
Have you tried thicker oil?
@@mobilemechanix1 yea. I ended up finding the issue. It was the ring that goes around the crank shaft, the camate didn’t have it so it was unable to build pressure. Shop didn’t take responsibility for the install of a defective part.
Harley master mechanic confirmed.
You really got me thinking now. I currently have 2007 FLHRC and I'm about to up grade to the S&S 107ci or 110ci kit. Cam plate pump heads the whole 9yrds and I was looking at Andrews 67h gear driven cams.
Subbed. I get it now, perfectly. My tensioners are excellent right now, but will look to gear drive when time to replace. My RK has 50K miles right now. Excellent instruction video, thank you!
Thank you!
@Jim Edward my hydraulic tensioners at 68K miles looked like they should have been replaced a while ago. deep groves into the shoes, I am certain it was affecting timing.
@@hdlstns are you thinking of changing over to the gear drive and maybe installing some different cams while in there?
@@jimedward8908 yes. actually My crank ended up being out of spec on my 09 TC and Kevin is getting my cases this week and building a blueprinted 107" for me with a Man O War Darkhorse Crank, S&S cam chest (gear drives), etc. That livestream on cranks that he just did with John from Darkhorse was awesome. Lengthy, but such good information. Hard to get guys like this in a room and then get them to tell you all you ever wanted to know about motor building like that. I'm super stoked.
@@hdlstns wow, you will get a big fun-factor bump in your riding once you twist the throttle on the new motor. I agree, to get exposure to their knowledge is incredible. Have fun on your new 107!
Very informative,love the knowledge you share,fantastic
Very informative! Very well presented! Very easy to understand! Thank you so much Kevin for sharing your knowledge.
Glad you enjoyed it! Youre welcome. Thanks for the kind words and for following.
I've learnt alot from you mate. Your content is epic. Much love from Australia
Nicely done. The visual aids helps explain why the run-out is crucial
Great background information. Well done! I have been looking into options as I own two TC bikes. On inspection, my 2003 RK at 20K miles still looks good, very little wear. My 2005 Deluxe only has 9K miles, so I have not inspected. Nice to have options for the fix, but my understanding is the hydraulic tensioners will wear at 50K miles, so with that mod you may still be looking at problems down the road. Although I have enjoyed both bikes, I believe this is something HD should have fixed for their customers. I am looking at buying my next bike in soon and I will not even consider HD. Great way for a company to lose repeat business.
Thank you very much
Starcade 85 talk radio but which model
I view my '99 TC engine and transmission as an oil distribution assembly.
Some of the oil is for internal components, some is to stop the baking trays under it from going rusty.
Love these videos! Learning a lot!
I had my 06 flhtcui upgraded with the screaming eagle Hydraulic Cam chain tension plate
Great video Kevin. Thanks for the knowledge. As an older mechanic and machine builder my question is this. Are there any pre 06 models that do not have tensioner wear ? Such as having better chains installed at the factory. My 04 with 48,000 probably should come apart. Simple enough. Thanks again.
Good question. I'm hesitant to answer with fear some will read it and disregard concern. That being said, I dont recall exactly which year, I think it was 04, they seemed to have changed the manufacturing process for the cam chains. The links had less of a rough edge from the die stamping process for the individual links. Didnt seem to be as rough. Regardless, check em at 20,000 miles.
Thank you sir. Great breakdown and explanation.
You're welcome. Thanks for watching. Theres a ton more content on the channel if you havent browsed it yet. I appreciate the kind words.
Awesome video. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Really enjoyed it. I’m considering buying a 2000-2006 Harley and going through the engine. Your video saved me many head scratches and headaches. Thank you.
You're welcome Tim. Thanks for watching. I would highly recommend an 06 over all years. EFI was great. Trans great. Primary great. Yeah an 02 had Timken bearing cases, but if you're going thru the engine anyway, I wouldnt sweat that. Too many reasons to list why on the 06 really.
@@KevinBaxter what in 06 model that you like? Thinking of buying an 06 Street Glide. Thanks.
thnx for the info but it's too bad hd didn't get it right in the first place. i have an 02 heritage and this has been on my mind.
In the perfect world.. HD should do a recall.. A little more investing in the engine, and a little less investing in the clothing and head scarves...
@@jezzr4431 yes, we were down on cape cod in hyannnis ma., went into what i thought was a harley dealer on main st and it turned out to be a clothing store. the kid behind the counter didn't know much about bikes.
Great learning curve..for me it was anyway..i love learning new things like this..its like learning a new "trick of the trade" thanks mate..They say it's what you learn after you already know everything that counts👍👍
Thank you.
On that conversion for earlier twin cam, cam plate.
I have a 2001 twin cam engine with the 2007 later cam plate set up in it, with the roller chains, sprockets,hydraulic tenshinors,high volume oil pump and went with Fueling Reaper 543 conversion cam they make to fit the early twin cam engine, cam journels. Works fine.
does that kit still use the plastic shoe pads only hydraulic instead of springs?
@@steveperry1344 I used these.
www.ebay.com/i/141300109678?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=141300109678&targetid=484372169279&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=9011742&poi=&campaignid=8085362375&mkgroupid=83473594796&rlsatarget=pla-484372169279&abcId=1139446&merchantid=6331264&gclid=CjwKCAiA3uDwBRBFEiwA1VsajKiD_dt2zIAvLC-qHuC1jI1sHuM7a0rnpipqtpRFYBv6YmFbKrayNBoC8xUQAvD_BwE
Harley stopped using the timken bearing on the left side to save costs, it supported the output shaft much better. They had problems with the compensator failing also with there cam tensioners failing. Wouldn't be better if they put a solid forged crank, and side by side connecting rods on one journal, and babbitt bearings with a high volume oil pump? Keep the 45 degree angle and single crank pin for that sound. You would be able to build them up without flywheels pressed together shifting.
Great Video and very informative in more ways than one. with so much variation in the amount of runout in the crank shaft, between 3 - 12 thousandths of an inch, is this a reflection on HD's inability to machine to tolerances. I mean its not even close. How do you know if the HD that you've bought has an out of balance crank and is slowly destroying your engine without stripping it down and checking for excessive runout ? Realistically, for what you are paying for a HD, these problems shouldn't exist. You convert to gear drive to overcome a shitty chain drive and tensioner and there's no guarantee you can, because HD did a shitty job on your crank and it has too much runout.
I couldnt agree more Stuart. And that was my point from the get go. I have no problem saying they build complete shit period. They have been living off of a myth for years. The only reason they even exist now is due to all the wananbes who spent money on them in the 80's and 90's. Now that all of thoses people dont have money the market got flooded with used Hardleys dirt cheap. If even a 1/4 of those posers rode more than 1500 miles in five years they would have been exposed even sooner. Ive been riding all my life. And I have had about 1 of almost every brand. The bottom line is I ride because its my choice of transportation. So to me its no different than buying a car. I like performance so that takes a big bite out of the choices i prefer. If you want a good car and like something that performs you would buy a Yogo would you? exactly. So Why would i buy a hardley? The last thing i want to do when i need to go somewhere is half to work on my ride for 2 hrs before i can leave. And dont think for a minute they dont have the option. They have chose to produce shit because profits are bigger and relying on people to continue to buy your shit because the image is cool can only last so long. Sorry old faithful patriots I am American as they come. Even more reason to say what i am. they have a choice and so do I . They are the typical American as sad as it is to say GREED AND NO PRIDE Fuck Harley, when they produce a bike worth my hard earned cash I may consider but truth be told not a fuckin chance ill be dead before they come close to getting it right.
@@ednorton1853 I've often wondered why when you go online to look at bikes for sale, there are twice as many Harleys for sale than any other brand.... I agree with your comments whole heartedly, it's why I ride a
V Star 1300, Just thumb the starter and go. Harleys in Australia are insanely expensive for what you get, then you have to spend a shit load on them to get the same performance as a stock M109R. At more than half the price. $20k buys a lot of gas. 😁😁
Thanxx for the video man awesome video man didn't know about run out. And if I should run gear drive or not.
That was an awesome explanation of the flywheel and cam
Thank you sir. Be sure to subscribe as well.
Went direct chain drive new gears rods, cranks everything was totally worth it my mechanic is a1 nutz and bolts in Spfld, Mo next to Kevin no better had 88 TC runs like top no worry’s now
Thanks! I just bought a 01 Fatboy that had gear drive cams installed at the dealership. Should I trust that the mechanic measured the runout?
Great info! No bluster, B.S. or sales pitch. Thanks!
Thank you for all your time and efforts that you have and continue to upload great videos.Kevin if things have improved over there with logistic issues would you be prepared to ship parts to Australia ?, Alex
Super fantastic video Kevin!. Thank you so much for sharing all your knowledge. you cover so many angles for different budgets its crazy, wealth of knowledge right here in this video, about to do a cam upgrade and was looking for more info about run-out and couldn't be more happier to find this. i am now subbed. Riding an M8 2019 Streetglide with 15,000miles on it and say i have 0.0029 run out, i have the budget and i would like to go gear drive, you mentioned it would last, BUT wouldn't wear & tear increase my run out over the next few years and cause problems to my gear set-up? TIA
as long as the crank doesnt shift, it should stay where it is now. Backlash setup will be critical. I did a part 2 to this video explaining that. When you decide to pull the trigger, please consider us when you decide to buy the parts. Glad to hear the runout is in spec and thank you for the kind words.
@@KevinBaxter will do have a great weekend!
you too sir. thank you.
The chain that he is showing from the first-year twin cams is a hypho chain of the same type used to connect crankshaft with transmission in Japanese motorcycles also used in a lot of Automotive applications very reliable except in Harley's case Harley went to chain drive so they could use substandard parts and crank out 30,000 more bikes a year winter gear drive and pushrods like an EVO your engine parts have to be much more strict engine parts that are too tall or Too Short the chain tensioner takes up the slack cheap and nasty way of running a valve train and when the chain goes snap the Piston comes and kisses the valve that will ruin your Jay for sure
Thank you for sharing knowledge.
Thanks for this video. It is very helpful for me.
Glad it was helpful!
Wow ur very knowledgeable about hd's, impressive commentary...
Thanks a ton
What is mileage usually seen to much run out ?
I have a 2010 fatboy lo 96ci 6,000 miles
after watching this video for the second time thru, when you said "there is really no substitute for 100% accurate valve timing" it sunk in why I should want gear drive cams, especially on a perfect crank
Excellent
What should be the maximum runout on the sprocket side of the crank in consideration of the purchase of a new crank ?
Kevin your videos are awsome. Keep them coming legend
Royal Enfield got around this (in their singles) by using eccentric bushes w/locknuts so you could individually adjust the backlash for each cam and the pump drive in the gearset. But I suppose chains are cheaper.
That was a great informative video...and it makes me want to go out and hug my 98 Harley springer with the tried and true 80 evo, thanks again it sure does bring light to the engines produced from 99 to 07.
Thanks for following
I was about to do the g.drive, until I realized the flywheel is pressed together.im returning it. That just seems like the f.wheels could be a serious problem.. another great video Kevin.
I’m an old guy and have not owned a Harley for at least 25 years. In my early days I had connections in Mexico and would import old Harley's' from there. It was a fun side business for me, importing Knuckle heads, Pan heads, Shovel heads, even a couple of old Indians. Yeah, some of it was crap and some of it was really nice. I did a lot of wrenching in those days, but I gave it all up and settled into real career and raising a family.
I retired a few years back and I’ve been debating with myself whether I should get another bike. My best friend recently found an old dusty shovel head and he’s about to buy it.
That did it for me...Now I’ve got the hots for another bike. I have spent the past month on the internet looking at late model Harley's' with low mileage. I’ve been away for so long, it’s all new technology, twin cam engines, 5 and 6 speed transmissions, monster motors, cruise control, all of it is totally amazing to me...I'm like a kid in a candy store!
I’ve picked out maybe 20 or 30 bikes that fit my budget and had the looks I liked. I purposely avoided the older bikes because I don't want to spend my time wrenching, I want to ride. I finally settled on a
2005 Fat Boy CVO. The price is where I can afford it and it has only 12,000 miles on it.
I have the cash in hand, ready to close the deal and NOW I SEE THIS VIDEO!
GREAT VIDEO, my compliments to Kevin Baxter of Pro Twin Performance…
But what a GREAT BIG RED FLAG on buying a late model Harley...NOT A CHANCE!!!
Go get that shovel before your bud get is. I got 77shovel in aftermarket frame and a wide springer. Those big inch motors ain't shit my motor is pretty worked to run and be able to take a beating and stay together and I just cleaned up some clown on a 103" bagger darn fool pulls next to me at a light and starts revving. Well the light went green and the Andrews F grind was gone hit rev limiter 1st-3rd never seen him again
@@kurtking5913 Hi
Kurt
This is Mike, I recently picked up a beautifully customized 1996 Heritage. The motor has been reworked and it flys!
I mean fast beyond belief! I don’t know anything about what has been done to the motor, but performance wise, it’s amazing...
But it has a problem, it vibrates horribly above 3500 rpm. I have looked into possible causes and have come up with a list of about 20 items that might be corrected without taking the motor apart.
I have talked to one of the better known aftermarket HD mechanics in the San Diego area and he thinks that I should first check all the items on my list and then if nothing fixes the problem, he suggests that it is the inherent weakness in the Harley Flywheels.
According to him they are notorious for getting out of “true” if they are over-revved. And if that is the problem, then the best fix is to do a teardown and replace the wheels with a set of S&S wheels.
Beautiful bike, great disappointment so far...
Oh well, it’s only money...
Excellent presentation of the problems and the multiple solutions available considering budget constraints. Now a question regarding model years. I am in the market for a Heritage Softail and because the budget will only allow an older model, what model years based on experience should I avoid knowing that I will have to do one of the three options you spoke about to correct the inherent flawed design and manufacture defect?
Great question. 02 was a great year. 06 was also a great year. I'd suggest pre 2007 because you can get great deals. No crank issues. 5spd was good. Avoid magneti morelli EFI.
@@KevinBaxter Thank you Kevin, that will substantially help to narrow the field. Considering I am 72 and have been riding for many years, I think if I can get something that will not require major rebuild for 50,000 miles I will consider it a lifetime warranty. lol
Great video man. Very well done and complete.
Much appreciated!