With rose quartz and iroh it's also that iroh is an active character in the story and rose is not. By the time audience finds out about his past, they have seen him do a lot of good things, and he continues to do good things afterwards. Rose is gone before the story started. And at first audience only gets to see her good side. And then her actions as pink diamond get revealed. With each new bad thing watchers find about her, her good deeds get more and more muted for them. And since Rose's dead, she can't take responsibility, apologize for lying, hurting volleyball, etc. Worse, it becomes Stevens responsibility to take care of her mistakes again and again. Rose's actions continue to hurt others, which makes it harder to see her good person, while iroh leaves impression that his dark past is truly in the past.
Right! The dead can't speak, err I mean the G O N E can't speak! That's truly the prevailing consensus about the Pink vs Iroh thing. To add onto that, I mentioned that a part of redemption is acknowledging what you've done is bad. And sadly with Pink she couldn't take accountability for what she did in her current state. It makes me wonder though if she's the kind of gem to bury the past. In her VHS tape to steven, she knew what was going to happen with her becoming steven but she chose to stay silent about her past and hoped Pearl would too. A part of me believes that if Pink was still around, she would've taken accountability if her past came back to haunt her. But truly we'll never know ahhhhh! Anyways great comment!!!
It makes it even more difficult that the more Steven learns about the bad sides of pink the more he mirrors her, hurting himself and others in the process. It blurs the line of how much she is gone and how much Steven is her son vs is literaly her after transitioning (gender & species) & now has to contend with the the past and family that brought out the worst in them after years of no contact. Its way more complex then I think even the show writers were able to handle. And its made worse by the fact Pink is idolized so intensely at the start and we see her character growth in reverse
That and rose never faced the consequences of her actions. Pink diamond just found ways to abandon her problems and run off under a new identity, first by becoming rose and then by having a kid and becoming part of them. She had years to do something about any of the problems she left behind as pink and she never did. Unlike iroh who does see some consequences for what he did in the past and his choice to rebel in the present of the show. People call iroh out on his actions, he's an exiled and wanted fugative because he chose to stand by zuko, even when he has a chance to live out a calm life in a tea shop it doesn't last long because of who he is and how his and zuko's past and lineage follows them. Iroh even faces betrayal from the one family member he could still depend on and had to be imprisoned until he could help take back the city he once warred against. Iroh suffered enough throughout the show for people to say he earned his redemption. And most importantly to me, Iroh fought as himself. He didn't try and play both sides of the conflict. He started off as a soldier for the fire nation and made a choice to go against them despite how badly that could affect him. Pink was still acting as a diamond while playing the role of the crystal gems leader. She was sending the gems to fight against her own troops that she could've just called off had she not chosen to hide. Gems like jasper wouldn't have even been fighting against them if pink rebelled as pink. She probably could've negotiated for the earth to be a safe planet had she not faked her death. The only reason they gave her the earth in the first place was to appease her. All she would have needed to do was ask to keep the world without stripmining it. But her main goal wasn't the earths safety, it was to get away from it all and that's why she faked her death and caused the diamonds to get serious. I feel like Pink would've been a much more palatable character if the writers had found a way to add conflict to the show without always tying it back to her. Almost everything steven and the other characters went through was always, in some way shape or form, roses fault.
Pink diamond is truley a child growing up, or trying to. She was a kid throwing tantrums, not really disecting the good and bad yet. She possibly came out overcooked, leading to the diamonds not letting her take on the responsibilities she was literally born to do: Lead. After begging, she gets a colony, but white fully expects her to fail, and to rub it in her face. That's what the "did you get it all out of your system?" Talk was. Pink managed to find a way to do what she was programmed to do in a different way. But she also did it without the support of her family, so I imagine that could have played a part in her bad desicions, kind of like a sheltered kid being thrust into the real world. She was never given the resources to even practice leadership because no one expected her to.
I'd like to say (Regarding Pink Diamond) that, towards the recent parts of her arc, it felt like she just became a plot device to blame everything on since she's not around to do anything about it.
@Rosemadi.artist TRUST, I'd cackle too. But lemme cook for a sec- PEARL forgot Spinel too and Spinel's lack of a brain is what caused her to stand STILL for 6000 years like??? I'd give it one year and peace out
NAWRRR cause spinel was so locked in 😭😭 in it to win it, i would've bounced too and im sure Pink thought that too. I wonder what year she realized she was being cucked but stuck by hoping pink would come back with a gold medal
I think what separates a good redemption arc from a bad redemption arc is three things: 1: Having the person called out for the bad actions, 2: Having the person either start the story regretting their actions or come to regret their actions and want to change, and 3: Having the person actually repent and fully make up for their actions. I think why redemption arcs can be so bad is the fact in a lot of cases they either just get away with it because they did one good thing that might not even collate to their wrongdoing, or they have a sad backstory and that's used as an excuse for their actions and they just get forgiven immediately. In my opinion, to make a good redemption arc you need to put any sad backstory aside (though there are exceptions), call out the character for their terrible actions, make the character regret their actions and want to be better, and have them actually repent and repay for what they've done in the past, proving to the characters and the audience that they have fully changed. It feels like some redemption arcs just feel hollow and makes the audience question why they wouldn't just go back to doing bad things, and makes the audience think the characters are stupid for trusting them. I just wanted to add my two senses to this conversation, I ramble a lot!
Omfg yessssss! I forgot about that cringe aspect of some characters using their sob story as a reason they're bad 😭😭😭 it's so terrible cause usually their crimes are worse than their sad story. Anyways these are all good points for a good redemption!!!
I would LOVE to see an attempted and failed redemption. Like, characters tried to help the big bad go good, but the bad just couldn't. But don't make it feel like a surefire thing like chloe in miraculous to just pull the rug... huh. That might actually be hard to pull off... I mean, the collector kind of did in the finale with belos.
Omg im sure it exists somewhere out there, I just can't remember exactly who. I mean the closest I can think of is when Katara tried to help Zuko and he relapsed back into bad before being good again 😭😭 the collectors story was interesting tbh, I wish we knew more about him
Batman: The Animated Series has so many great examples of failed redemption~ From The Penguin in Birds of a Feather to The Riddler in Riddler's Reform, to even Catwoman! Yes, that show has many, many examples of failed redemption... which makes the very few episodes where true redemption does happen (It's Never Too Late, Double Talk) so much more special
There was recently something like that in an event on Tattared World (an avatar dress up site, of all places). One of the villains from previous events was dying, but he wanted to use his death as a way to redeem himself and be remembered as something more like a hero sacrificing himself to save everyone from a greater evil. Unfortunately the event relied on user participation and the vast majority of users speaking up in the event threads absolutely trashed his attempt. He did still die and tried to save everyone with his death, but the consensus seem to be "good riddance, we're still not forgiving the bastard".
"How many people does it take to deliver a message." "Just one." That cemented Shangyu as irredeemable for me, before the rest of the stuff even happened
Wasn't ready for the Rose Quartz jumpscare... I respect Rebecca for managing to write someone so complex in a kids show though. Frankly that goes for most of the characters though.
15:08 I have watched so many videos on character redemptions and no one has mentions this! I think this divides into the topic of redemption vs. healing, character intention vs. world intention. Realistically speaking, every person who betters themself all have vastly different approaches and motivations. There are people who have done horrible things (murder, war crimes… you name it) who go onto be average, or even good people simply because they wanted an easier life, or perhaps to impress someone they love, or even to just make money. People don’t always improve themselves for the selfless reason of “being good makes me feel good”. Healing yourself often starts with a more personal, or even petty reason. And then you eventually like the feeling of doing good things so you keep doing them anyways. (I used to be a lie and steal a lot. But I became much more honest and gave things away simply because stealing became stupid. I didn’t actually use all of the things I had because having them in public would get me caught and they took up too much space in my room. Plus, why have all these different things (clothes, fidgets, etc.) when I could just have one or a couple that’s specific to me with rich history? So much cooler, y’know? I improved myself only for me but it was a win for everyone.) And redemption is simply a reaction from the characters around them. So it completely depends on what the characters do and don’t know. A war criminal could assimilate into normal life as an average, or even good person, and no one would know (this is surprisingly common in real life). But do they deserve to be redeemed? Many people would say no, that they deserve to be killed or spend the rest of their life in prison, but others would say that if they want a second chance to be genuinely good then they deserve it. Societal redemption, or even small group redemption is a very grey area, but in terms of healing, almost anyone can heal themselves. In terms of fiction, I think more writers should mess around with what the characters do or don’t know about the morally questionable character. Would knowing their bad past (or present?) change their perception of the character? Does this character make up excuses for what they did or are they honest and ashamed? Are they honest with some things but not others (Squid School I’m lookin at you…)? Or do we the audience know of the horrible things they did but not anyone else? Think about the people you know in real life or historical figures, there’s more to learn from them then fiction tbh
(I mention Squid School because it’s common for people to be honest about some aspects of a specific bad thing (ie. History of violence, sexual misconduct, etc.) to hide the fact that they did much worse. It’s to make it look like they are bold for confessing and have moved on, that this is the worst thing they did. What happened with Squid School was that, in his dating advice livestream, he talked about throwing rocks at a girl he liked when he was a kid, that he wasn’t good with relationships. It sounded like it was a hard confession for him to make, something he was ashamed of. And I don’t doubt that. But little did any of us know that he made far worse decisions later, even having his ex have a restraining order against him. This made part of his fan base doubt what he did (not me lol you should always believe the victim), that he’s innocent until proven guilty, although the evidence has proved otherwise… And he hasn’t said a word on social media in months. Yeah, it was pretty bad. I mean he actually made some great videos and did have genuinely good writing advice. Very smart guy. But boy were we fooled.)
That's so true! I think one that I remember was some 100-year-old n*zi being tried and imprisoned after being unproblematic in society for literal decades. I believe that people should take accountability, but I also believe that people can learn from the past and do better. Everyone acts so high and mighty as if they've never made a mistake before and take it into their own hands to serve justice, which is so toxic and destructive. Justice always gets served regardless, but it's not everyone's court to administer it. Idk, my opinion! 😭 Not to be that goober, but how can toxicity be fought with toxicity? Anyways, like you said, you realized over time that stealing was stupid. Everyone knows it's wrong, I'm sure other people told you it was wrong, but you took it upon yourself to realize that. And your own intuition and worldview prevailed at the end. And I agree when it comes to writing! It's so interesting to have characters who seemingly hide their past. More writers should be less afraid to make flawed characters. To be honest, this is my first time hearing about this squid school character 😬, but ironically, this isn't my first time hearing this kind of story. It's a tale as old as time here on the internet. If it's anything like the Projared situation, omg. That's why you should never wrong people online or in person. You think no one will ever say anything, but they will once they receive courage. Your apology will be ignored, and silence will be an assumed admission of guilt. Reading more about the situation, it's sad all around. Tragic for the victims, pity to the squid. The last court you ever want to be involved in is the court of public opinion. Especially if it's the Twitter kind.
Something I've seen that not many others mention is that we both see Iroh and Rose with reverse character development. We see their character development stripped away through flashbacks and lore hints, eventually leading to their farthest point from where they are at the beginning of the show. The difference is that Iroh has foreword character development, too. Each mention of who he used to be is contrasted with how far he's come, showing that he's bettered as a person. Since Rose is gone, we don't get that, we're just shown how bad she was and not how far she went away from that.
Yeah there's so much ambiguity when it comes to how Pink feels about her past! We know that Iroh hates his path, and often spoke to other characters about how much he wanted to distance himself from that. But when it comes to pink. She's G O N EEEEE!! Know one really knows what she thought about it, and ofc she kept silent on the matter too.
also your moon cass opinion is not a very hot take from what I've seen, although upon rewatch I think it's a fairly solid arc that gave us some banger songs. mostly varian was robbed of his pitched spinoff show and also season 1 screen time 😤
Tangled the series fans are few but very passionate 😭😭😭 omg that's so true! We need more people from that universe traumatized or vengeful, so we can get some more good music!!!! I listen to nothing left to lose everyday like no joke! Anyways I don't hate Cassandra's arc and I kinda like how she flip flops from good to bad lmao but yeah I just like varians arc a tad bit more x'DD
The huge problem with Pink is that we see her redemption ark backwards, she’s long gone by the start of the show and all we know is what others say or how they perceived her actions- Pink was not innocent but saying she’s an evil mastermind undeserving of a redemption ark is kinda stupid but unfortunately that’s how a lot of the fandom saw her after everything she used to do or every irreversible thing she’s done despite the entire point of a redemption ark is changing for better which she did-
Nuance was dead the moment Pinks past was revealed, but yeah I have a feeling that if she was still alive, she wouldn't have condoned her past behavior. But yeah the "gone" can't speak 😬
I know it has barely anything to do with the video but yeah 10:18 The universe hated this child. I understand what he did was wrong but jeez he had a point about the rocks. Ngl I thought Fredrick was going to be the main villain of season 1….
I love this video SO MUCH!! This is AMAZING!!! Your voice is very relaxing, and I love your editing! I'm actually going to have a semi-non lineal redemption arch for my MC! My MC's name is Madeline, and she's going to start the story seeming very normal. All the audience will see is a perfect woman with a perfect life with a perfect sister, because this is what MADELINE sees. Madeline is a toxically positive individual. She needs EVERYTHING in her life to be positive. It doesn't matter if it's not. She will MAKE it be positive. Of course, the reason for this is that nothing in Madeline's life is positive. Her family tragically died, and at only 19 she was left to care for her 11 year old sister, Evangeline. (Who she truly cares for, and actually DOES have a positive relationship with.) But the thing is...Madeline does not remember the death of her family. (Parents and brother). All she remembers is waking up a few days later, and being interogated about it. Madeline WAS the one who killed her family. They abused her and abused her little sister. So she snapped and killed them, then used her magic to make her and her little sister forget. And even if that's not inherently bad, what happens next is. Because, well, even if she doesn't remember why, Madeline has become alot more powerful (The trauma of the event caused her magic to develope, but I dont want to info dump anymore then I already have.) And Madeline...Madeline really loves the feeling of being in control of people. Even more then that, she wants everything in her world to be happy. So she MAKES everything be happy, and makes SURE everyone is perfectly happy. She IS going to be redeemed, but I don't want to info dump anymore, so just let me know if you want to hear! :D
Yes I want to hear! Omg I have a lot of comments so forgive me if I reply super slow! But anyways your OC Madeline sounds super intriguing! Kinda scary too haha, there's truly nothing like a character who hides their past while trying to present themselves as perfect to others! There's a lot of room for good redemption here!
I’m writing a book where a character has a redemption arc! I love this video, great tips that I will definitely be applying to my character’s redemption. The bad thing she does is bullying, and overall being a sort of horrible person because she hates herself, and then hates on others. But she try’s. At least when her best friend is gone, because shes the real jerk. Like a murderer kind of jerk. She’s manipulative, insane, and knows what she is doing is wrong, but doesn’t care because it’s for the greater good. She eventually dies in an epic fight, where the character with a redemption will decide to either stand with murder friend or the other group of people she bullied. She decides to stand with her other friends. There’s only one person in that group who is willing to help her grow better and not be a jerk. Idk what I just wrote wait- I have more to that story like a lot- but also I really love this video. Thanks for the tips again have a nice day :D
Omg I'm glad you liked the video XD and omg omg the lore runs deep with this redemption arc, I can tell you're trying to summarize for the sake of it being in the comment section, but this is super interesting! Usually redeemed characters are still alive or have already died, so it's so intriguing to have one that actually dies midway through the story!
@ not midway, actually near the end, and she’s the bad one who doesn’t get redeemed. I’m sorry, this was very hard to read 😅 thanks for replying and have a nice day
this video ended up remembering me of a oc i have that literally went to a hospice and two years later returned to society. He doesn't remember what he did to get there and the people around town just isolate him because he's "crazy" (btw he's besties with the daughter of one of the most influentials guys in town)
Another interesting example of a character's past coming back for them is Damian Wayne in the comic series Robin: Son of Batman 2015. Essentially, Damian is going on a journey of redemption and meets Maya Ducard who is the daughter of a man Damian killed in a previous story (and I can go off about that too because her dad is from Damian's dad's dark past) and she wants revenge. Damian essentially makes a deal with her that she can kill him after he has gone on his journey and over the next few issues, we see Damian redeem himself alongside Maya and grow and become a better person. At the end, Damian has only one thing left to atone for and that is the murder of Maya's father. He asks for her forgiveness but doesn't expect to from her and Maya reflects on things and forgives him, saying that he gained a sister. It's a beautiful and powerful moment and I cannot recommend the series enough because my brief summary does not do it any justice.
Omg ill definitely have to give this a read sometime! I like the batman series in general so I'll check it out! But this is for sure a good example of a past coming back to haunt!
One of my favorite redemption arcs is actually one we(audience/gamers) play a part in, Joshua Graham from the video game Fallout New Vegas. He's another example of someone who's done truly horrific things. Just look up The Legion in Fallout lore if you wanna know more. Major Spoilers ahead for Fallout NV and the Honest Hearts DLC btw! Oh and note my use of tribes does not mean Native Americans, Fallout is just a universe where many groups of people call themselves tribes. Also prepare for a long af read, yay, I suck at summaries. Unlike Iroh(whom I also love), we do see more through interactions with the Legion, hearing stories about what he's done, meeting the dictator he once founded the Legion alongside(Caesar), how the Wasteland has suffered and continues to suffer because of the Legion's existence, etc. One could argue however that a form of karma and justice has already come for Joshua, via what happened after he failed Caesar but one time. Despite them having been friends once, all they'd built up together, and the fact Joshua turned his back on his faith and previous life to join Caesar in the beginning, like with all dictators before him there was no room for failure. Joshua was covered in pitch, lit on fire, then thrown into the Grand Canyon. Somehow, by some stroke of luck or pure miracle, Joshua survived this, and proceeded to drag himself out of that canyon after realizing through deep near death introspection that he had been wrong, done wrong, and needed to be better. Eventually after three months he made it back to the community and family he'd once forsaken and shamed with his actions, only to be welcomed as though he'd never left at all. Through their love and forgiveness he returns to his faith and continues to go on missions. Even though he has to now switch bandages every night for the rest of his life because the third degree burns all over his body would never heal, forever burning. Unfortunately Caesar finds out Joshua is alive, but rather than admit to his own failure, quietly sends assassins out to kill him. One manages to find him and uses a local tribe(White Legs) that was occasionally raiding Joshua's home already, to eventually sack it. Teaching them to use sub machine guns and better tactics that led to the deaths of many in Joshua's community, no one was spared unless they were among those who did escape. Joshua himself being among them, though his own family is implied to have been among the brutally killed. He went on to carry that grief and anger with him into Zion Canyon with a tribe called the Dead Horses(he'd met them in his youth whilst hanging with Caesar but I can't recall if it was before or during the Legion)after he discovers a friend of his who also survived, is having trouble protecting another tribe(Sorrows) from the White Legs. So he and the Dead Horses(who named him War Chief out of respect and reverence to him) go to try and help them out. Sometime later(unspecified) the player meets Joshua in Zion during the events of the Honest Hearts DLC. Joshua wants to fight back against the White Legs so no one has to leave, whilst Daniel would rather leave to avoid more violence and bloodshed. However, Joshua's reasons go beyond just that. Daniel already suspects what Joshua actually wants is to wipe them out, and Joshua later quoting violent sounding scripture to you just proves that. He does want to protect Zion from another tragedy, but he also desires revenge for what was done to his home and family. From here the story can end in several different ways depending who you side with on the matter. One ending sees Joshua regress to his Legion self after getting that revenge, another sees the Sorrows and Daniel dying, if you the player kill the White Legs leader the Sorrows believe violence is the only way to solve problems and turn on Dead Horses one day only to fail, then you have this last one. In this ending after defeating the White Legs leader, by beating the second highest speech check in the game, you can convince Joshua to turn away from this path. Get him to realize that his anger is nothing righteous or good, that it isn't God's anger either, it's simply his own. From there he realizes that though his past, the burning, and the wildfire anger he struggles with will always be a part of him, but he doesn't have to and shouldn't let it control him. He shows mercy to the White Legs leader and chooses to see where true karma will take them one day. The Sorrows in turn learn that defending themselves is crucial(despite what Daniel thinks), but that they must remember to showcase mercy and never forget their humanity. Joshua himself, slowly becomes a kinder man as the years pass according to the narration at the end as well.
Ugh this makes me so angry cause like I received a copy of fallout for Christmas about a year ago and the game did not work whatsoever! Like the code just straight up didn't work! Anyways this game and its view on redemption sound both entertaining and intriguing! I like how it depicts redemption as some kind of negative loop cycle, where now people who are thought to have good intentions, are now doing irredeemable stuff themselves! I need a new copy of fallout!!!
@Rosemadi.artist Highly recommend it, just note Honest Hearts suffered a lot of cuts before players got a hold of it. There's lots of videos discussing that.
When I saw the title for this video, I KNEW you were gonna be talking about Varian. I’m sorry the brainrot is consuming me…… but his redemption arc is SO GOOD AUUGHHHH!!! I have so many Thoughts about him. ANYWAYS!!!! Me and my friends recently wrote a play that we are trying to make a prequel, sequel, AND rewrite for. (The directors messed everything up rippp) and there’s this one character who KILLS A 14 YEAR OLD’S MOTHER. He’s so silly tho like lil bro was just stuck in an apocalypse and had to dimension hop.. like a savior complex is just a side effect!! :( another character, the one I wrote and played, has kind of a comedic relief to villain to redemption arc. I’m being so fr when I say I stole his personality from Varian, Hyde from the glass scientists, and GIR from invader zim. I can’t stop the brainrot OH LU GODDDDDNDJMCNC!!!
Omg am I becoming that predictable that he's not even on the thumbnail but it's obvious I was gonna bring up varian 😭😭😭😭 AND OMG YOUR CHARACTERS SOUND SO CHAOTIC BUT CHAOTIC IN THE GOOD WAY
While I like Pink Diamond’s character arc, I would KILL for an alternate universe where she never died (Steven would born full human/adopted?). Imaging living peacefully on an alien planet for thousands of years, then one day, one by one, each of your sins comes back to haunt you and your remaining friends realize who you used to be. That would be delicious from a writing standpoint.
ONG!!!! I would for sure love like an official AU of this and there's so many different possibilities this plot could go! What'd she say to the diamonds, or bismuth, or spinel, or even steven!?
Im surprised no my little pony redeemed villains appeared in this video, especially sunset shimmer! Sunset shimmers immediate forgiveness for destroying half the school and hypnotizing a bunch of teens, and her only consequence was having to fix a wall is a little weird but ehhh(if you know what im talking about, then thank u lol)
That's because I haven't watched MLP, should I watch it or is it too late? 😭 but anyways idk what you're talking about, but just from hearing it, that's a terrible punishment
To be fair here there is missing context. Yes Sunset Shimmer was ultimately forgiven BUT the only ones that showed her immediate forgiveness were the (hu)mane 6. The rest of the student body were another story as we see gets followed up in the sequel film Rainbow Rocks, where nobody wants to associate with Sunset even though she’s trying her hardest to do good and learn about friendship. So I think in addition to having to clean up the mess she made, Sunset also had to deal with the consequences by being completely stripped of her social status as queen bee and constantly being viewed as a monster by her peers (the song My Past is Not Today shows how she struggles with this) Starlight Glimmer on the other hand is the one who has a messy redemption arc, girl literally created a cult and tried changing the past so that Twilight wouldn’t meet her friends all because… her childhood friend got his cutie mark before she did? 😭Only to be immediately forgiven afterwards. I can’t say the show handled her “redemption arc” well since Starlight doesn’t really face any repercussions for her actions iirc
I must admit, it's quite captivating to watch the way you draw plus animate at the background! It looks super cool! Along with your view on Pink Diamond, since, Pink Diamond just beats down a lot by pretty much everyone. As someone who extremely loves flawed characters, it kind of sucks sometimes. I do have a tendency of liking characters that everyone doesn't like. Like, Unicorn from the game named Will You Snail. Ehe. Tho, it seems like I'm going off trail because it's not related to redemption at all. Regarding redemption, I have a main villain where I believe doesn't deserve redemption named Occult. Guy really sacrifices and controls a lot of fish, (Fish, because the whole world is fish) plans to do more eviler stuffs in the future towards the main character (s), commit to it, and pays for it by being trapped to rot in prison. Tho, one of the main character wants to help Occult redeem, then he got convince that Occult isn't worth redeeming. And I got the other characters named Onyx, he is pretty much like Occult's ex-student. Considering Occult's behavior, Onyx isn't spared from being mind controlled either. Got forced to sacrifice a lot of fish, and turns against his own people. Onyx just snapped because Occult asked him to sacrifice his bestie, backstabbed Occult, and swims away! Tho, Onyx did goes insane back home and caused one of his friends trapped in the dungeon, while the other got under his control for years. After Onyx gets a pretty much life changing experience (Death, and got revived) it helps Onyx with finally changing to the better. Onyx just started to make a moss farm with his friend that he sees as a sister, the same character that he puts in the dungeon, also the same character Occult asked Onyx to sacrifice, lol.
Haha 20 videos in and I think you're the first person to bring it up 😂 They're pages from my web novel! But yeah anyways, I like Pink Diamond as well! I can acknowledge what she did as bad, but I can still see her growth. Even if it's buried behind a lot of mess. anyways both Occult and Onyx sound like really complex and interesting characters! Very well fleshed out as well! There's so much drama under the sea haha, or under water, I should say underwater. Anyways I like that Onyx has his own personal dilemmas such as not wanting to sacrifice a friend to make him act the way he does!
Really, With That, I Like to Bring in Another Character that is Actually Terrible Enough Not to Deserve Any Sort of Redemption. And That is Actually Sheryl Godspeed from Final Space. And, Really, Throughout There, She Not Only Abandoned her Own Son Since his Father's Demise. But, Also: -Tried to Harm and Kill Him Multiple Times -Nearly Sold Him to a Psychopath in a Tellitubbies Suit -Nearly Tried to Kill Her Son's Own Lover Out if Spite -PUT A GLOCK IN HIS HEAD -NEARLY COMMITTED GENOCIDE TO THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE......For One Guy...... Also, Even when she Actually Tried to Have her Own Redemption Prior to Season 3, Not Only was it Rushed. But, She Barely did Anything to Help Make Up for Things Such as: -Barely Had Any Moments With her Son -Barely Gave Any Advice to her Son with his Relationship -Barely Even Defended Him from his Friend Ash from Blaming Him for One of Their Friends' Demise. Really, She was Still Just a Terrible Person. Even Before she Met her Love John, She Actually Did Terrible Things Since she Works For an Organization. And Even After her Lover's Demise. So, Really......
I feel like a decent redemption story is to have someone put at an all time low. Make them feel regret. Example of good redemption - doki doki pretty cure's regina Example of someone who doesnt deserve redemption or even to be satisfied - miraculous's hawk moth (he did too much for him to even get redeemed. My friend said somehow he got redeemed in the show..... seriously??? Id say the movie yes it was good. At least he received reprecautions for his actions in the movie. Meanwhile the show fears to punish their favourite characters. I really hate the show but love the movie because writing quality)
Yeah I totally agree with you here! A good redemption story should involve the character feeling some sort of remorse! Also if that hawk moth dude actually does get a redemption, I think imma scream!
This topic was interesting and I like your analysis on it, but I feel like a lot of people have to understand that nobody in this world is good or bad. We’re just morally gray. We are just humans trying to live our lives the best way we can make every day a little more tolerable than the last humans fuck up and make mistakes really shitty mistakes, but that doesn’t automatically make them a bad person that just makes them heavily shitty and there is no justification for heavily shitty actions to be honest, but not everybody in this world is good as well
I thought by reverse redemption arc you meant character going from good to bad. Like something slowly corrupting them, but I guess that’s a corruption arc isn’t it?
That's essentially what a reverse redemption arc is! But I would call that more of a "fall from grace" or like you said a "corruption arc" Idk if there's an actual word for what I'm describing 😭😭but it's essentially seeing their redemption arc in reverse. reverse in terms of progression not morality!
Lol It's really interesting when you go and research it. It was a need for survival back in the day to be a part of a community! I'm kinda like you where I'm fine being by myself, and I don't care to be around anyone. But still even so there should be a balance!
The things pink diamond did can not be forgiven... She had that chance to change but lost it. Her arc was backwards and she is a terrible friend and is very toxic. When Steven said that he is a fraud and monster so pink diamond is a fraud and monster plus she lied to everyone and hurt everyone and she left her mess for Steven to clean and he went through a lot because of it. So pink diamond is the one person you could not forgive for she doesn't deserve it and she never admits that she is wrong. So in the end of Steven universe no one talks about her anymore and for good reason too.
@hannahbecker2309 Yes you did. You said her arc was backwards, and that's the point. We actually saw her redemption arc in a non-linear form. She starts off as destructive and selfish then realizes that Earth needed to be defended. She saved billions of humans and creatures from destruction. And as for the "she left Steven to deal with it" no she didn't. It was stated multiple times that Steven was just meant to be her son, not the magical fix to all her problems.
It's possible to have a character redeemed by some and irredeemable to others. Depending on the context and person, some people find some actions more excusable than others. Even in the show we can see it bismuth, pearl, Steven, Greg, or even the diamonds
With rose quartz and iroh it's also that iroh is an active character in the story and rose is not. By the time audience finds out about his past, they have seen him do a lot of good things, and he continues to do good things afterwards.
Rose is gone before the story started. And at first audience only gets to see her good side. And then her actions as pink diamond get revealed. With each new bad thing watchers find about her, her good deeds get more and more muted for them. And since Rose's dead, she can't take responsibility, apologize for lying, hurting volleyball, etc. Worse, it becomes Stevens responsibility to take care of her mistakes again and again.
Rose's actions continue to hurt others, which makes it harder to see her good person, while iroh leaves impression that his dark past is truly in the past.
Right! The dead can't speak, err I mean the G O N E can't speak! That's truly the prevailing consensus about the Pink vs Iroh thing. To add onto that, I mentioned that a part of redemption is acknowledging what you've done is bad. And sadly with Pink she couldn't take accountability for what she did in her current state. It makes me wonder though if she's the kind of gem to bury the past. In her VHS tape to steven, she knew what was going to happen with her becoming steven but she chose to stay silent about her past and hoped Pearl would too.
A part of me believes that if Pink was still around, she would've taken accountability if her past came back to haunt her. But truly we'll never know ahhhhh! Anyways great comment!!!
Very well explained ^^
It makes it even more difficult that the more Steven learns about the bad sides of pink the more he mirrors her, hurting himself and others in the process. It blurs the line of how much she is gone and how much Steven is her son vs is literaly her after transitioning (gender & species) & now has to contend with the the past and family that brought out the worst in them after years of no contact. Its way more complex then I think even the show writers were able to handle. And its made worse by the fact Pink is idolized so intensely at the start and we see her character growth in reverse
That and rose never faced the consequences of her actions. Pink diamond just found ways to abandon her problems and run off under a new identity, first by becoming rose and then by having a kid and becoming part of them. She had years to do something about any of the problems she left behind as pink and she never did. Unlike iroh who does see some consequences for what he did in the past and his choice to rebel in the present of the show. People call iroh out on his actions, he's an exiled and wanted fugative because he chose to stand by zuko, even when he has a chance to live out a calm life in a tea shop it doesn't last long because of who he is and how his and zuko's past and lineage follows them. Iroh even faces betrayal from the one family member he could still depend on and had to be imprisoned until he could help take back the city he once warred against. Iroh suffered enough throughout the show for people to say he earned his redemption.
And most importantly to me, Iroh fought as himself. He didn't try and play both sides of the conflict. He started off as a soldier for the fire nation and made a choice to go against them despite how badly that could affect him. Pink was still acting as a diamond while playing the role of the crystal gems leader. She was sending the gems to fight against her own troops that she could've just called off had she not chosen to hide. Gems like jasper wouldn't have even been fighting against them if pink rebelled as pink. She probably could've negotiated for the earth to be a safe planet had she not faked her death. The only reason they gave her the earth in the first place was to appease her. All she would have needed to do was ask to keep the world without stripmining it. But her main goal wasn't the earths safety, it was to get away from it all and that's why she faked her death and caused the diamonds to get serious.
I feel like Pink would've been a much more palatable character if the writers had found a way to add conflict to the show without always tying it back to her. Almost everything steven and the other characters went through was always, in some way shape or form, roses fault.
Pink diamond is truley a child growing up, or trying to.
She was a kid throwing tantrums, not really disecting the good and bad yet.
She possibly came out overcooked, leading to the diamonds not letting her take on the responsibilities she was literally born to do: Lead.
After begging, she gets a colony, but white fully expects her to fail, and to rub it in her face. That's what the "did you get it all out of your system?" Talk was.
Pink managed to find a way to do what she was programmed to do in a different way. But she also did it without the support of her family, so I imagine that could have played a part in her bad desicions, kind of like a sheltered kid being thrust into the real world. She was never given the resources to even practice leadership because no one expected her to.
Yeah truly trial by fire with Pink 😬
I'd like to say (Regarding Pink Diamond) that, towards the recent parts of her arc, it felt like she just became a plot device to blame everything on since she's not around to do anything about it.
I know this comment isn't meant to be funny but I laughed anyways 😭😭 you're right, especially when it came to spinels lore
@Rosemadi.artist TRUST, I'd cackle too. But lemme cook for a sec- PEARL forgot Spinel too and Spinel's lack of a brain is what caused her to stand STILL for 6000 years like??? I'd give it one year and peace out
NAWRRR cause spinel was so locked in 😭😭 in it to win it, i would've bounced too and im sure Pink thought that too. I wonder what year she realized she was being cucked but stuck by hoping pink would come back with a gold medal
@@Rosemadi.artist LOL FR LIKE...GIRL LETS BFFR 👏😂
@@ravenr0cksI had a fan theory that gems physically can’t ignore their diamond, so Spinel couldn’t move
I think what separates a good redemption arc from a bad redemption arc is three things: 1: Having the person called out for the bad actions, 2: Having the person either start the story regretting their actions or come to regret their actions and want to change, and 3: Having the person actually repent and fully make up for their actions. I think why redemption arcs can be so bad is the fact in a lot of cases they either just get away with it because they did one good thing that might not even collate to their wrongdoing, or they have a sad backstory and that's used as an excuse for their actions and they just get forgiven immediately. In my opinion, to make a good redemption arc you need to put any sad backstory aside (though there are exceptions), call out the character for their terrible actions, make the character regret their actions and want to be better, and have them actually repent and repay for what they've done in the past, proving to the characters and the audience that they have fully changed. It feels like some redemption arcs just feel hollow and makes the audience question why they wouldn't just go back to doing bad things, and makes the audience think the characters are stupid for trusting them.
I just wanted to add my two senses to this conversation, I ramble a lot!
Omfg yessssss! I forgot about that cringe aspect of some characters using their sob story as a reason they're bad 😭😭😭 it's so terrible cause usually their crimes are worse than their sad story. Anyways these are all good points for a good redemption!!!
“Your apology should be as loud as your disrespect was.” -a random google image my chorus teacher’s wall, right beside Homer Simpson.
I would LOVE to see an attempted and failed redemption. Like, characters tried to help the big bad go good, but the bad just couldn't. But don't make it feel like a surefire thing like chloe in miraculous to just pull the rug... huh. That might actually be hard to pull off...
I mean, the collector kind of did in the finale with belos.
Omg im sure it exists somewhere out there, I just can't remember exactly who. I mean the closest I can think of is when Katara tried to help Zuko and he relapsed back into bad before being good again 😭😭 the collectors story was interesting tbh, I wish we knew more about him
Batman: The Animated Series has so many great examples of failed redemption~ From The Penguin in Birds of a Feather to The Riddler in Riddler's Reform, to even Catwoman! Yes, that show has many, many examples of failed redemption... which makes the very few episodes where true redemption does happen (It's Never Too Late, Double Talk) so much more special
There was recently something like that in an event on Tattared World (an avatar dress up site, of all places). One of the villains from previous events was dying, but he wanted to use his death as a way to redeem himself and be remembered as something more like a hero sacrificing himself to save everyone from a greater evil. Unfortunately the event relied on user participation and the vast majority of users speaking up in the event threads absolutely trashed his attempt.
He did still die and tried to save everyone with his death, but the consensus seem to be "good riddance, we're still not forgiving the bastard".
"How many people does it take to deliver a message." "Just one."
That cemented Shangyu as irredeemable for me, before the rest of the stuff even happened
Exactly! It's just so chilling. It was established early on to be irredeemable
Wasn't ready for the Rose Quartz jumpscare... I respect Rebecca for managing to write someone so complex in a kids show though. Frankly that goes for most of the characters though.
Honestly, and a complex woman nonetheless!!!!
@@Rosemadi.artistRebecca surger herself also said that pink diamond is not a good person and like people would say her arc was backwards
15:08 I have watched so many videos on character redemptions and no one has mentions this! I think this divides into the topic of redemption vs. healing, character intention vs. world intention. Realistically speaking, every person who betters themself all have vastly different approaches and motivations. There are people who have done horrible things (murder, war crimes… you name it) who go onto be average, or even good people simply because they wanted an easier life, or perhaps to impress someone they love, or even to just make money. People don’t always improve themselves for the selfless reason of “being good makes me feel good”. Healing yourself often starts with a more personal, or even petty reason. And then you eventually like the feeling of doing good things so you keep doing them anyways. (I used to be a lie and steal a lot. But I became much more honest and gave things away simply because stealing became stupid. I didn’t actually use all of the things I had because having them in public would get me caught and they took up too much space in my room. Plus, why have all these different things (clothes, fidgets, etc.) when I could just have one or a couple that’s specific to me with rich history? So much cooler, y’know? I improved myself only for me but it was a win for everyone.)
And redemption is simply a reaction from the characters around them. So it completely depends on what the characters do and don’t know. A war criminal could assimilate into normal life as an average, or even good person, and no one would know (this is surprisingly common in real life). But do they deserve to be redeemed? Many people would say no, that they deserve to be killed or spend the rest of their life in prison, but others would say that if they want a second chance to be genuinely good then they deserve it. Societal redemption, or even small group redemption is a very grey area, but in terms of healing, almost anyone can heal themselves.
In terms of fiction, I think more writers should mess around with what the characters do or don’t know about the morally questionable character. Would knowing their bad past (or present?) change their perception of the character? Does this character make up excuses for what they did or are they honest and ashamed? Are they honest with some things but not others (Squid School I’m lookin at you…)? Or do we the audience know of the horrible things they did but not anyone else? Think about the people you know in real life or historical figures, there’s more to learn from them then fiction tbh
(I mention Squid School because it’s common for people to be honest about some aspects of a specific bad thing (ie. History of violence, sexual misconduct, etc.) to hide the fact that they did much worse. It’s to make it look like they are bold for confessing and have moved on, that this is the worst thing they did. What happened with Squid School was that, in his dating advice livestream, he talked about throwing rocks at a girl he liked when he was a kid, that he wasn’t good with relationships. It sounded like it was a hard confession for him to make, something he was ashamed of. And I don’t doubt that. But little did any of us know that he made far worse decisions later, even having his ex have a restraining order against him. This made part of his fan base doubt what he did (not me lol you should always believe the victim), that he’s innocent until proven guilty, although the evidence has proved otherwise… And he hasn’t said a word on social media in months. Yeah, it was pretty bad. I mean he actually made some great videos and did have genuinely good writing advice. Very smart guy. But boy were we fooled.)
That's so true! I think one that I remember was some 100-year-old n*zi being tried and imprisoned after being unproblematic in society for literal decades. I believe that people should take accountability, but I also believe that people can learn from the past and do better. Everyone acts so high and mighty as if they've never made a mistake before and take it into their own hands to serve justice, which is so toxic and destructive. Justice always gets served regardless, but it's not everyone's court to administer it. Idk, my opinion! 😭 Not to be that goober, but how can toxicity be fought with toxicity? Anyways, like you said, you realized over time that stealing was stupid. Everyone knows it's wrong, I'm sure other people told you it was wrong, but you took it upon yourself to realize that. And your own intuition and worldview prevailed at the end.
And I agree when it comes to writing! It's so interesting to have characters who seemingly hide their past. More writers should be less afraid to make flawed characters.
To be honest, this is my first time hearing about this squid school character 😬, but ironically, this isn't my first time hearing this kind of story. It's a tale as old as time here on the internet. If it's anything like the Projared situation, omg. That's why you should never wrong people online or in person. You think no one will ever say anything, but they will once they receive courage. Your apology will be ignored, and silence will be an assumed admission of guilt. Reading more about the situation, it's sad all around. Tragic for the victims, pity to the squid. The last court you ever want to be involved in is the court of public opinion. Especially if it's the Twitter kind.
"Give your character a flaw, a normal flaw that isn't genocide or war crimes"
Me: Laughs in Dalinar Kholin
That guy fits into the next section 😭😭😭 he's not allotted the redemption just the reverse redemption
Something I've seen that not many others mention is that we both see Iroh and Rose with reverse character development.
We see their character development stripped away through flashbacks and lore hints, eventually leading to their farthest point from where they are at the beginning of the show.
The difference is that Iroh has foreword character development, too. Each mention of who he used to be is contrasted with how far he's come, showing that he's bettered as a person.
Since Rose is gone, we don't get that, we're just shown how bad she was and not how far she went away from that.
Yeah there's so much ambiguity when it comes to how Pink feels about her past! We know that Iroh hates his path, and often spoke to other characters about how much he wanted to distance himself from that. But when it comes to pink. She's G O N EEEEE!! Know one really knows what she thought about it, and ofc she kept silent on the matter too.
the way i was jumpscared by your mention of varian omg
I was pretty sure I was the last surviving member of the tangled fandom 😭
also your moon cass opinion is not a very hot take from what I've seen, although upon rewatch I think it's a fairly solid arc that gave us some banger songs. mostly varian was robbed of his pitched spinoff show and also season 1 screen time 😤
Tangled the series fans are few but very passionate 😭😭😭 omg that's so true! We need more people from that universe traumatized or vengeful, so we can get some more good music!!!! I listen to nothing left to lose everyday like no joke! Anyways I don't hate Cassandra's arc and I kinda like how she flip flops from good to bad lmao but yeah I just like varians arc a tad bit more x'DD
Oh oh yeah! We were 100% robbed from the varian show, we've been robbed from so much varian content and lore 😭😭
I will never forget how we could’ve had vat7k. ALSO YR PFP IS SO REAL OMG 😭
The huge problem with Pink is that we see her redemption ark backwards, she’s long gone by the start of the show and all we know is what others say or how they perceived her actions- Pink was not innocent but saying she’s an evil mastermind undeserving of a redemption ark is kinda stupid but unfortunately that’s how a lot of the fandom saw her after everything she used to do or every irreversible thing she’s done despite the entire point of a redemption ark is changing for better which she did-
Tho this is just my opinion- I feel like Pink is way overhated compared to every other character in the show-
Nuance was dead the moment Pinks past was revealed, but yeah I have a feeling that if she was still alive, she wouldn't have condoned her past behavior. But yeah the "gone" can't speak 😬
I know it has barely anything to do with the video but yeah
10:18
The universe hated this child.
I understand what he did was wrong but jeez he had a point about the rocks.
Ngl I thought Fredrick was going to be the main villain of season 1….
The butterfly effect in its purest form. He started out wanting to save corona just to get arrested by corona omg
@ also really sad
I love this video SO MUCH!! This is AMAZING!!! Your voice is very relaxing, and I love your editing!
I'm actually going to have a semi-non lineal redemption arch for my MC!
My MC's name is Madeline, and she's going to start the story seeming very normal.
All the audience will see is a perfect woman with a perfect life with a perfect sister, because this is what MADELINE sees. Madeline is a toxically positive individual. She needs EVERYTHING in her life to be positive.
It doesn't matter if it's not. She will MAKE it be positive.
Of course, the reason for this is that nothing in Madeline's life is positive. Her family tragically died, and at only 19 she was left to care for her 11 year old sister, Evangeline.
(Who she truly cares for, and actually DOES have a positive relationship with.)
But the thing is...Madeline does not remember the death of her family. (Parents and brother). All she remembers is waking up a few days later, and being interogated about it.
Madeline WAS the one who killed her family. They abused her and abused her little sister. So she snapped and killed them, then used her magic to make her and her little sister forget.
And even if that's not inherently bad, what happens next is.
Because, well, even if she doesn't remember why, Madeline has become alot more powerful (The trauma of the event caused her magic to develope, but I dont want to info dump anymore then I already have.)
And Madeline...Madeline really loves the feeling of being in control of people.
Even more then that, she wants everything in her world to be happy.
So she MAKES everything be happy, and makes SURE everyone is perfectly happy.
She IS going to be redeemed, but I don't want to info dump anymore, so just let me know if you want to hear! :D
Yes I want to hear! Omg I have a lot of comments so forgive me if I reply super slow! But anyways your OC Madeline sounds super intriguing! Kinda scary too haha, there's truly nothing like a character who hides their past while trying to present themselves as perfect to others! There's a lot of room for good redemption here!
I like your take on redemption archs! It's very helpful!
Omg omg omg, I'm glad you liked it haha! I really tried to cover topics in redemption that aren't talked about often!
YESS I was just thinking about your hair symbolism video when this popped up!! I think it's a sign that I should've subbed ages agoo
Omg yay welcome back and thanks for the sub 😭💕But yes a massive shout out to all of these types of characters and may their growth come eventually!
What about Catra from She Ra and The Princesses Of Power
I need to watch She Ra 😭😭 but it's on my watch list!
I’m writing a book where a character has a redemption arc! I love this video, great tips that I will definitely be applying to my character’s redemption. The bad thing she does is bullying, and overall being a sort of horrible person because she hates herself, and then hates on others. But she try’s. At least when her best friend is gone, because shes the real jerk. Like a murderer kind of jerk. She’s manipulative, insane, and knows what she is doing is wrong, but doesn’t care because it’s for the greater good. She eventually dies in an epic fight, where the character with a redemption will decide to either stand with murder friend or the other group of people she bullied. She decides to stand with her other friends. There’s only one person in that group who is willing to help her grow better and not be a jerk. Idk what I just wrote wait-
I have more to that story like a lot- but also I really love this video.
Thanks for the tips again have a nice day :D
Omg I'm glad you liked the video XD and omg omg the lore runs deep with this redemption arc, I can tell you're trying to summarize for the sake of it being in the comment section, but this is super interesting! Usually redeemed characters are still alive or have already died, so it's so intriguing to have one that actually dies midway through the story!
@ not midway, actually near the end, and she’s the bad one who doesn’t get redeemed. I’m sorry, this was very hard to read 😅 thanks for replying and have a nice day
this video ended up remembering me of a oc i have that literally went to a hospice and two years later returned to society. He doesn't remember what he did to get there and the people around town just isolate him because he's "crazy" (btw he's besties with the daughter of one of the most influentials guys in town)
OOOO your OC sounds interesting, omg I feel so bad for their circumstance though
@Rosemadi.artist me too,but he's fine tho (i hope)
@Jubscreuda_UwU.cookie that's so ominous omg
Another interesting example of a character's past coming back for them is Damian Wayne in the comic series Robin: Son of Batman 2015. Essentially, Damian is going on a journey of redemption and meets Maya Ducard who is the daughter of a man Damian killed in a previous story (and I can go off about that too because her dad is from Damian's dad's dark past) and she wants revenge. Damian essentially makes a deal with her that she can kill him after he has gone on his journey and over the next few issues, we see Damian redeem himself alongside Maya and grow and become a better person. At the end, Damian has only one thing left to atone for and that is the murder of Maya's father. He asks for her forgiveness but doesn't expect to from her and Maya reflects on things and forgives him, saying that he gained a sister. It's a beautiful and powerful moment and I cannot recommend the series enough because my brief summary does not do it any justice.
Omg ill definitely have to give this a read sometime! I like the batman series in general so I'll check it out! But this is for sure a good example of a past coming back to haunt!
One of my favorite redemption arcs is actually one we(audience/gamers) play a part in, Joshua Graham from the video game Fallout New Vegas. He's another example of someone who's done truly horrific things. Just look up The Legion in Fallout lore if you wanna know more. Major Spoilers ahead for Fallout NV and the Honest Hearts DLC btw! Oh and note my use of tribes does not mean Native Americans, Fallout is just a universe where many groups of people call themselves tribes. Also prepare for a long af read, yay, I suck at summaries.
Unlike Iroh(whom I also love), we do see more through interactions with the Legion, hearing stories about what he's done, meeting the dictator he once founded the Legion alongside(Caesar), how the Wasteland has suffered and continues to suffer because of the Legion's existence, etc. One could argue however that a form of karma and justice has already come for Joshua, via what happened after he failed Caesar but one time. Despite them having been friends once, all they'd built up together, and the fact Joshua turned his back on his faith and previous life to join Caesar in the beginning, like with all dictators before him there was no room for failure. Joshua was covered in pitch, lit on fire, then thrown into the Grand Canyon. Somehow, by some stroke of luck or pure miracle, Joshua survived this, and proceeded to drag himself out of that canyon after realizing through deep near death introspection that he had been wrong, done wrong, and needed to be better. Eventually after three months he made it back to the community and family he'd once forsaken and shamed with his actions, only to be welcomed as though he'd never left at all. Through their love and forgiveness he returns to his faith and continues to go on missions. Even though he has to now switch bandages every night for the rest of his life because the third degree burns all over his body would never heal, forever burning.
Unfortunately Caesar finds out Joshua is alive, but rather than admit to his own failure, quietly sends assassins out to kill him. One manages to find him and uses a local tribe(White Legs) that was occasionally raiding Joshua's home already, to eventually sack it. Teaching them to use sub machine guns and better tactics that led to the deaths of many in Joshua's community, no one was spared unless they were among those who did escape. Joshua himself being among them, though his own family is implied to have been among the brutally killed. He went on to carry that grief and anger with him into Zion Canyon with a tribe called the Dead Horses(he'd met them in his youth whilst hanging with Caesar but I can't recall if it was before or during the Legion)after he discovers a friend of his who also survived, is having trouble protecting another tribe(Sorrows) from the White Legs. So he and the Dead Horses(who named him War Chief out of respect and reverence to him) go to try and help them out. Sometime later(unspecified) the player meets Joshua in Zion during the events of the Honest Hearts DLC. Joshua wants to fight back against the White Legs so no one has to leave, whilst Daniel would rather leave to avoid more violence and bloodshed. However, Joshua's reasons go beyond just that. Daniel already suspects what Joshua actually wants is to wipe them out, and Joshua later quoting violent sounding scripture to you just proves that. He does want to protect Zion from another tragedy, but he also desires revenge for what was done to his home and family. From here the story can end in several different ways depending who you side with on the matter. One ending sees Joshua regress to his Legion self after getting that revenge, another sees the Sorrows and Daniel dying, if you the player kill the White Legs leader the Sorrows believe violence is the only way to solve problems and turn on Dead Horses one day only to fail, then you have this last one. In this ending after defeating the White Legs leader, by beating the second highest speech check in the game, you can convince Joshua to turn away from this path. Get him to realize that his anger is nothing righteous or good, that it isn't God's anger either, it's simply his own. From there he realizes that though his past, the burning, and the wildfire anger he struggles with will always be a part of him, but he doesn't have to and shouldn't let it control him. He shows mercy to the White Legs leader and chooses to see where true karma will take them one day. The Sorrows in turn learn that defending themselves is crucial(despite what Daniel thinks), but that they must remember to showcase mercy and never forget their humanity. Joshua himself, slowly becomes a kinder man as the years pass according to the narration at the end as well.
Ugh this makes me so angry cause like I received a copy of fallout for Christmas about a year ago and the game did not work whatsoever! Like the code just straight up didn't work! Anyways this game and its view on redemption sound both entertaining and intriguing! I like how it depicts redemption as some kind of negative loop cycle, where now people who are thought to have good intentions, are now doing irredeemable stuff themselves! I need a new copy of fallout!!!
@Rosemadi.artist Highly recommend it, just note Honest Hearts suffered a lot of cuts before players got a hold of it. There's lots of videos discussing that.
I wasn't ready for the 24/hr Walmart wound to be reopened so soon in the video XD
pfffffffft I'm so upset about it! I'm upset about it now just merely being reminded!! 😂😂😂 Also hey Taylor!!! Thanks for checking out my video haha!
I SEE PINK DIAMOND, I CLICK!
Lmaoooo 😭😭😭
When I saw the title for this video, I KNEW you were gonna be talking about Varian. I’m sorry the brainrot is consuming me…… but his redemption arc is SO GOOD AUUGHHHH!!! I have so many Thoughts about him. ANYWAYS!!!! Me and my friends recently wrote a play that we are trying to make a prequel, sequel, AND rewrite for. (The directors messed everything up rippp) and there’s this one character who KILLS A 14 YEAR OLD’S MOTHER. He’s so silly tho like lil bro was just stuck in an apocalypse and had to dimension hop.. like a savior complex is just a side effect!! :( another character, the one I wrote and played, has kind of a comedic relief to villain to redemption arc. I’m being so fr when I say I stole his personality from Varian, Hyde from the glass scientists, and GIR from invader zim. I can’t stop the brainrot OH LU GODDDDDNDJMCNC!!!
Omg am I becoming that predictable that he's not even on the thumbnail but it's obvious I was gonna bring up varian 😭😭😭😭 AND OMG YOUR CHARACTERS SOUND SO CHAOTIC BUT CHAOTIC IN THE GOOD WAY
also im making another message cause the original got cut off, but anyways i like the idea of having a comedic relief to the villian thats so fun 😭😭💕💕
@@Rosemadi.artist THANK YIUUUU LMAO IVE BEEN ROTATING THEXE GUYS IN MY HEAD LIKE THR MIVROWAVE 😭😭
LMAOOOO NOT THE M I V R O W A V E 💀💀💀💀
While I like Pink Diamond’s character arc, I would KILL for an alternate universe where she never died (Steven would born full human/adopted?). Imaging living peacefully on an alien planet for thousands of years, then one day, one by one, each of your sins comes back to haunt you and your remaining friends realize who you used to be. That would be delicious from a writing standpoint.
ONG!!!! I would for sure love like an official AU of this and there's so many different possibilities this plot could go! What'd she say to the diamonds, or bismuth, or spinel, or even steven!?
Im surprised no my little pony redeemed villains appeared in this video, especially sunset shimmer! Sunset shimmers immediate forgiveness for destroying half the school and hypnotizing a bunch of teens, and her only consequence was having to fix a wall is a little weird but ehhh(if you know what im talking about, then thank u lol)
That's because I haven't watched MLP, should I watch it or is it too late? 😭 but anyways idk what you're talking about, but just from hearing it, that's a terrible punishment
To be fair here there is missing context. Yes Sunset Shimmer was ultimately forgiven BUT the only ones that showed her immediate forgiveness were the (hu)mane 6. The rest of the student body were another story as we see gets followed up in the sequel film Rainbow Rocks, where nobody wants to associate with Sunset even though she’s trying her hardest to do good and learn about friendship. So I think in addition to having to clean up the mess she made, Sunset also had to deal with the consequences by being completely stripped of her social status as queen bee and constantly being viewed as a monster by her peers (the song My Past is Not Today shows how she struggles with this)
Starlight Glimmer on the other hand is the one who has a messy redemption arc, girl literally created a cult and tried changing the past so that Twilight wouldn’t meet her friends all because… her childhood friend got his cutie mark before she did? 😭Only to be immediately forgiven afterwards. I can’t say the show handled her “redemption arc” well since Starlight doesn’t really face any repercussions for her actions iirc
I must admit, it's quite captivating to watch the way you draw plus animate at the background! It looks super cool! Along with your view on Pink Diamond, since, Pink Diamond just beats down a lot by pretty much everyone. As someone who extremely loves flawed characters, it kind of sucks sometimes. I do have a tendency of liking characters that everyone doesn't like. Like, Unicorn from the game named Will You Snail. Ehe. Tho, it seems like I'm going off trail because it's not related to redemption at all.
Regarding redemption, I have a main villain where I believe doesn't deserve redemption named Occult. Guy really sacrifices and controls a lot of fish, (Fish, because the whole world is fish) plans to do more eviler stuffs in the future towards the main character (s), commit to it, and pays for it by being trapped to rot in prison. Tho, one of the main character wants to help Occult redeem, then he got convince that Occult isn't worth redeeming.
And I got the other characters named Onyx, he is pretty much like Occult's ex-student. Considering Occult's behavior, Onyx isn't spared from being mind controlled either. Got forced to sacrifice a lot of fish, and turns against his own people. Onyx just snapped because Occult asked him to sacrifice his bestie, backstabbed Occult, and swims away! Tho, Onyx did goes insane back home and caused one of his friends trapped in the dungeon, while the other got under his control for years. After Onyx gets a pretty much life changing experience (Death, and got revived) it helps Onyx with finally changing to the better. Onyx just started to make a moss farm with his friend that he sees as a sister, the same character that he puts in the dungeon, also the same character Occult asked Onyx to sacrifice, lol.
Haha 20 videos in and I think you're the first person to bring it up 😂 They're pages from my web novel! But yeah anyways, I like Pink Diamond as well! I can acknowledge what she did as bad, but I can still see her growth. Even if it's buried behind a lot of mess.
anyways both Occult and Onyx sound like really complex and interesting characters! Very well fleshed out as well! There's so much drama under the sea haha, or under water, I should say underwater. Anyways I like that Onyx has his own personal dilemmas such as not wanting to sacrifice a friend to make him act the way he does!
I'm gonna comment more to help the algorithm!
Your book sounds super cool!! Where can I read it?
Omg thanks so much haha! My book is on my website in the video's description!
rosemadi.com/
Really, With That, I Like to Bring in Another Character that is Actually Terrible Enough Not to Deserve Any Sort of Redemption. And That is Actually Sheryl Godspeed from Final Space. And, Really, Throughout There, She Not Only Abandoned her Own Son Since his Father's Demise. But, Also:
-Tried to Harm and Kill Him Multiple Times
-Nearly Sold Him to a Psychopath in a Tellitubbies Suit
-Nearly Tried to Kill Her Son's Own Lover Out if Spite
-PUT A GLOCK IN HIS HEAD
-NEARLY COMMITTED GENOCIDE TO THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE......For One Guy......
Also, Even when she Actually Tried to Have her Own Redemption Prior to Season 3, Not Only was it Rushed. But, She Barely did Anything to Help Make Up for Things Such as:
-Barely Had Any Moments With her Son
-Barely Gave Any Advice to her Son with his Relationship
-Barely Even Defended Him from his Friend Ash from Blaming Him for One of Their Friends' Demise.
Really, She was Still Just a Terrible Person. Even Before she Met her Love John, She Actually Did Terrible Things Since she Works For an Organization. And Even After her Lover's Demise. So, Really......
OOOh I really need to watch Final Space, I never knew that all of that was going on, but Sheryl sounds awful omg
@Rosemadi.artist She Definitely Is. Really, Her Actions are Even Inexcusable......Really......
I feel like a decent redemption story is to have someone put at an all time low. Make them feel regret.
Example of good redemption - doki doki pretty cure's regina
Example of someone who doesnt deserve redemption or even to be satisfied - miraculous's hawk moth (he did too much for him to even get redeemed. My friend said somehow he got redeemed in the show..... seriously??? Id say the movie yes it was good. At least he received reprecautions for his actions in the movie. Meanwhile the show fears to punish their favourite characters. I really hate the show but love the movie because writing quality)
Yeah I totally agree with you here! A good redemption story should involve the character feeling some sort of remorse! Also if that hawk moth dude actually does get a redemption, I think imma scream!
@Rosemadi.artist thanks for agreeing with me. If a character is an immoral monster then there goes that redemption.
This topic was interesting and I like your analysis on it, but I feel like a lot of people have to understand that nobody in this world is good or bad. We’re just morally gray. We are just humans trying to live our lives the best way we can make every day a little more tolerable than the last humans fuck up and make mistakes really shitty mistakes, but that doesn’t automatically make them a bad person that just makes them heavily shitty and there is no justification for heavily shitty actions to be honest, but not everybody in this world is good as well
Yeah, i pretty much agree with you there!
@@Rosemadi.artist ty
RAHHHH VARIAN MENTION 😱😰😫
I'LL MAKE YOU PROUDDDD
HE IS REAL!!! LOOK AT HIM GO!!!
I WILL MAKE YOU HAVE FAITH IN ME
I WILL PROVE THAT THE WAY I USED TO BEEE IS ALL IN THE PAAAAAST
Nice. Really Nice.
Many many thanks!!
GUYS ROSEMADI JUST POSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YAY
Fr
aweee!!! 😭😭💕💕
I thought by reverse redemption arc you meant character going from good to bad. Like something slowly corrupting them, but I guess that’s a corruption arc isn’t it?
That's essentially what a reverse redemption arc is! But I would call that more of a "fall from grace" or like you said a "corruption arc" Idk if there's an actual word for what I'm describing 😭😭but it's essentially seeing their redemption arc in reverse. reverse in terms of progression not morality!
Can I find your book on Amazon so I can request my library to get it back
I only have the digital copy on my website sadly 😭
@@Rosemadi.artist dang well if you do print let me know I love to request my library to get books so that hopefully others can discover great stories
Awe thanks so much that's so sweet 😭😭💕💕 you'll be the first person I let know!
@@Rosemadi.artist thank you
i never understand why people want to be loved and accepted.im fine not to be eather but i ges im not that much of a humen in that case
Lol It's really interesting when you go and research it. It was a need for survival back in the day to be a part of a community! I'm kinda like you where I'm fine being by myself, and I don't care to be around anyone. But still even so there should be a balance!
The things pink diamond did can not be forgiven... She had that chance to change but lost it. Her arc was backwards and she is a terrible friend and is very toxic. When Steven said that he is a fraud and monster so pink diamond is a fraud and monster plus she lied to everyone and hurt everyone and she left her mess for Steven to clean and he went through a lot because of it. So pink diamond is the one person you could not forgive for she doesn't deserve it and she never admits that she is wrong. So in the end of Steven universe no one talks about her anymore and for good reason too.
You completely missed the point of her arc
@Pinka13 no I didn't miss anything.... If I had then I would learn more but I have not miss anything and besides pink diamond did more harm than good
@hannahbecker2309 Yes you did. You said her arc was backwards, and that's the point. We actually saw her redemption arc in a non-linear form. She starts off as destructive and selfish then realizes that Earth needed to be defended. She saved billions of humans and creatures from destruction. And as for the "she left Steven to deal with it" no she didn't. It was stated multiple times that Steven was just meant to be her son, not the magical fix to all her problems.
@@Pinka13 I am afraid I have to disagree with you on that
It's possible to have a character redeemed by some and irredeemable to others. Depending on the context and person, some people find some actions more excusable than others. Even in the show we can see it bismuth, pearl, Steven, Greg, or even the diamonds