I think it's pretty obvious he hasn't seen Avatar: The Last Airbender. He hasn't mentioned it in any of his videos (and some of them ATLA is the perfect example he is talking about), but if anybody doesn't mention Zuko in a video about redemption arcs, then either they haven't seen it, or they're a criminal. LOL
This is a very basic example, but Piccolo and Vegeta in Dragon Ball. They both go from enemies to "just" rivals, allies and finally friends in a pretty natural way for how contrived plots usually are in DB.
Once again, you are batting a thousand. One thing I think should be considered, which is that redemption can't completely heal the character's feeling about the original failure to act or wrong choice. The character might be redeemed as much as 99%, but never 100%. There will always be psychological scars. A redemption arc is a prescriptive arc, but there always will be a cautionary component baked into it. If we show the character getting full and complete redemption, that won't be realistic. The past, itself, can't be undone. What a story should do is placed the character on a path to redemption, show them making progress, and show them reaching very close to that stage of full redemption.
Good examples. I like A Christmas Carol and Voyage of the Dawn Treader as examples of redemption tales. Ebenezer Scrooge in the first and Eustace in the second.
For me Eustace's redemption arc resolution was a bit secondary (like, the purely technical thing); but I was completely caught off guard by the naturalness of the presenting the concept that one shouldn't be necessarily be somehow exceptionally bad, weak, spoiled to commit a betrayal or meanness. And - of course also a bit secondary - how subtle and innocent can evil look and behave baking the temptation. BTW, that's one of major reasons I love hags in the settings like Forgotten Realms.
Kratos from God of War is the epitome of a redemption story. Everything is earned and takes time. He works hard for his redemption and there no cheap sacrifice as a cop out. He must admit his mistakes and live with them and the redemption fits really well with the evil act: after killing his wife and daughter, he must raise a new son and try to be a good father. It's such a beautiful story of.
A very obvious one but the Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2 games. It's clear what redemption looks like to each character, why they choose it and both the good and bad ripple effects it creates. You can choose how you behave and it makes subtle differences to the story and the characters around you are so well developed that you care about the way they think about you. The redemption doesn't start until halfway in, so you're in the mindset of the anti-hero before the agent of change and have to adjust your mentality and go through the changes with the character. I would love to have that experience again for the first time.
One of my favorite redemptions is from the IDW Transformers comics, where Megatron started out wanting to tear down the caste system that kept Cybertronians from being free (they were forced into roles by what they turn into, and could never be anything else) and actually had noble goals in starting the war before going too far and becoming a tyrant. He realizes at one point in the series that he hates who and what he's become, and he renounces the Decepticon cause and actively becomes an Autobot. And despite knowing he can never possibly do enough good to atone for the bad he's done, he tries anyway. Few people like him, fewer still trust him, he has to deal with old Decpticons wanting to kill him for becoming a apostate, and the comics really show him try to move away from "genocidal tyrant" and try to do some good before he's sentenced for his innumerable crimes. The Transformers comics are like the complete antithesis of the godawful Michael Bay movies in that they're well written with strong characterization and themes, and Megatron's attempt at redemption (even knowing he can never receive absolution) is a great example of that, and a fantastic redemption arc for a character who's so much more than the cackling cartoon villain the character is in other incarnations.
Vader's death for me was his heroic act. His crimes in that universe were too much for a life thereafter. His realisation through Luke's belief in his good side is what helps clear that darkside smog and what better than to have his child tell him this, a son that can live in a universe free of his dark reign. A hopeful future. I do find rehabilitation after redemption an interesting path having said this. Or it could be reversed. Because as much as we dont want a cheap change of heart the people left over who were affected wont have that same view either. Thanks for the video.
Usually, redemption arcs are for people who have done terrible things, like Vader. They are written in a way that we are supposed to automatically forgive them because they made the right choice in the end. Which won't fly in today's world. We very much refuse to accept people for the errors of their way. I think the key to redemption arcs needs to adapt to this. Instead of making it seem like all is forgotten like Darth Vader. Instead of all is forgotten, looked at the former vile person working to do their best o make up for all the evil they have done. The mainframe should be that they know it is unlikely they will make up for it.
Great point. Many people have lost the ability to compartmentalize--in other words, they can't accept the idea that a person who has "sinned" can be anything other than a sinner. They can't distinguish a wrongful act from the whole person. In truth, almost all people are a mix of good, bad, and neutral, yet the bad gets all the attention nowadays. With characters, I think it's easier to forgive them because the writer's job is to manipulate the audience's emotions. With Jaime Lannister, I went from hating him in S1-2 to viewing him as my favorite GoT character from S3 onward. Once I understood him better and saw him perform acts of self-sacrifice and heroism, I was able to forgive him for pushing Bran out a window in the first episode. I'm having a similar experience with characters from the show The Boys, although I'm only a couple episodes into S2 so far. That said, I think there's value in making the right choice in the end. Vader killing Palpatine swings the fate of the galaxy. Does it bring back the younglings Anakin personally slaughtered in Ep3? No. Does it rebuild the planets he helped destroy? No. But killing Palpatine and that final admission of "You were right, Luke" still resonates for me. I get why it doesn't work for some (Vader becomes a Force ghost and faces no consequences for decades of destruction), but the alternative is that he could've let Palpatine and the Empire continue to thrive. That has to count for something.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty There reason why people today only see the sin and not the whole person, this is because too many people have changed from one bad public decision or action. They come back proving they changed from that, but there is far worse they still do, because people don't know about it. It is only recently, that we are seeing people being held fully accountable for the majority of bad they have done. This is why redemption arcs need to focus more on attempted redemption. The character needs to know they will not fully be forgiven for their actions, but seek to do as much good as they can in their remaining time.
@@TimRG This would completely go against concept of redemption though. Imagine Jesus, while being crucified, telling the penitent thief "now get down from the cross and go make enough good deeds to outweigh your faults, then we'll have Twitter decide whether you're good enough to be un-canceled with a poll, but you have to accept that you will not be forgiven by everyone and will always go around feeling guilty, and everyone will remind you of that all the time. Everyone will judge you... Morality police is watching. Always." When in Bible, it went like this: Like 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me, when you come into your kingdom." 43 He replied to him, "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise." It doesn't matter what you believe in, that's how Christianity goes and works made by Christian authors will generally reflect that, see Boromir's redemption being just that, repenting right before death. Sure he makes a heroic last stand against Middle-Earth version of russians, but he was already redeemed by that point, self-sacrifice is just adding the biggest Christian virtue on top by the religious author. Servants of Tash get chances of redemption at any point in Narnia, so does the traitor, and he's forgiven before he has a chance to actually do anything... as it should be... I mean, won't it characterize other characters in poor light if they go full Karen and refuse to accept someone who's genuinely sorry and just stand in the corner tapping their foot while waiting for the repenting person to single handedly (literally) save the galaxy, AND THEN still declare them not good enough?) Oh and Star Wars is very blunt at Anakin going to their version of Heaven. Name change is also important because a convert is "a new person". So Vader died when Anakin turned to light side and the guy who yeeted Palatine into a reactor was a different person theologically. Reason it works is because Jesus (in Narnia's case, Aslan) sacrifices himself for others salvation. So people get redeemed without doing shit because somebody else already paid the highest toll. That's not some spiritual belief it's a core doctrine of this religion. Now then authors of different faith and upbringing will have different views on that but this example is very obvious.
@@KasumiRINA, the first redemption arcs have nothing to do with Christianity. Second, referencing Morality Police caused me to lose all interest in what you had to say. Christianity might be the truth to you, but it's not to others. Especially me.
@@TimRG It's an example, not proselytizing. You didn't even address the comment. I guess I can't change your mind, but just know that your view of morality and human redemption is extremely unpopular (yes, even today as your original comment mentioned), and few would find it compelling if it were applied to a story.
I was always a fan of Starlight Glimmer's redemption. Started off doing bad things for what she thought was a good reason, so the desire to do good was always there to be improved upon. Her early episodes had her still use her scheming ways to avoid problems or arrive at what she thought would be good outcomes, but failing to address the problems or truly learning how to get along with others by doing so. She doubted herself hundreds of times and even doubted her teachings at least once but found the resolve to stick to them each time. Her final moment of redemption also cast off her villainous idea that she had to take charge of situations by instead being a supporting player who reminded her teacher she was right to favor redemption in the first place. The end of her journey also inverts her beginning, going from a cult leader forcing her own beliefs onto people to a school administrator that lets other people share their own beliefs.
Great video, Brandon! I have a secondary character in my novel who is a college student that becomes a drug dealer. After witnessing a murder and a young model’s suicide (both his customers) he stops selling and using. He establishes a positive relationship with a supportive woman and returns home to reconnect with his younger brother and sister. The message? There’s always hope.
This is a video on redemption. Now do a video on when a character starts off good, but something happens along the way that they become the villain. Tony Almeida in 24 is a good example. Through five seasons he was good, but after his wife's death, he returns in season 7, initially as a bad guy, but it's quickly discovered he's undercover and then you eventually discover he was a bad guy all along going after the man who orchestrated his wife's murder. His wife's death was the switch. He was such a likeable character that I think people were really hoping he'd get redemption, but it never happened and it's why I loved that character arc.
One of my favorite stories with a redemption arc is the film The Family Man. It's an interesting case though because Jack's starting point is downplayed. He seems to be on top of the world--a rich, powerful executive who lacks nothing. But by the end of the film, he wishes he had made a different choice 13 years ago, and his motivation and behavior completely change.
Thanks for the video Brandon! I especially appreciated the tips at the end and specifically the one about making sure that the redemptive actions are equal to the falling action. One of my biggest pet peeves in stories is the insta redemption or almost worse the insta-corruption. That's my biggest pet peeve in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Anakin's fall is basically like yep I'm a good guy oh wait nope I'm killing kids. Looking forward to your next video!
Thanks! And Anakin's fall was foreshadowed in Episode 2 when he slaughtered the people who captured his mother. The buildup to his fall could've been a lot more compelling, but the pieces are there.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty They also cover more of Anakin's character arc and descent to Vader in Clone Wars, thankfully. I too agree that it still seemed a little sudden, even with the foreshadowing in ep 2. Granted, not the best character writing in the prequel trilogies and also the format of movies being ~2 hours sort of limits what can be shown on screen, though perhaps a few more moments of internal struggle or depictions of desperation might have helped. Anyhow, I think one reason why Star Wars as a whole is so beloved and acclaimed is the story of Anakin's fall and redemption, despite having to die at the end. I'm sure some people argue that his death *was* the punishment and atonement for his past atrocities.
Yeah I can't stand that either. If you're going to have someone changing sides, have it make sense - give them a solid rationale and a good reason to. Almost always for going to the good side, there is character growth behind it. It doesn't feel right if there isn't any. Unless you build them up as willing to change sides for a specific reason ie, amoral as hell but get mad when someone hurts children. (Like the Ravagers.)
I love Negans redemption arc in the walking dead, cause it took him a really long time to change, and he kept kinda falling back into his old ways of thinking
Artimus Fowl is one long redemption series. He spends the later books making up for all the things he did when he was an evil little genius. Heck, he had to TRAVEL BACK IN TIME to save a species he got extinct out of SPITE.
I think "Blood Diamond" is a good example of a redemption arc. Danny Archer is unremittingly selfish and callous and cynical throughout the whole movie. At times, he helps others, but one is always left to suspect that he only does so out of self-interest. Even close to the end, he is harsh and ruthless in his treatment of Solomon Vandy. But at the end, when he's wounded, he knows he's only slowing down Solomon, and he tells Solomon to leave him behind to die: the first unmistakably selfless thing we've ever seen him do.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I'm not sure what was the initial Darth's intention, but since he did not come back - I'll pick up the black banner. 0. A different but related topic: how to make the villain the reasonable protagonist. // that technically most likely assumes that he should finally win. // Trivial way - over the greater evil, but there definitely should other options. Other trivial way - slightly cheat the reader: protagonist isn't really evil, he is just antisocial, unpleasant... for child audiences - Shrek. OK, villain wins 1. How to help the reader to feel satisfied? Things like Call of Cthulhu (TTRGs) come to mind, where in many cases 'winning' means 'staying in reasonably sane mind facing the horror beyond your grasp'. 2. How to help reader to empathize the villain's victory over the protagonist?
With Tony Stark and Darth Vader, Im guessing the character's change of heart can come at any time? Although the arc seems to always conclude at the climax?
@@TrevorDuran3390 I get what you're saying. Vader's arc is more about coming to the realization that it's not too late to change, whereas Tony Stark's arc is about the process of changing himself (not just in the first IM movie, but over the course of the entire original MCU when he goes from self-absorbed to self-sacrificing)
I particularly like the arc of Skylar White in Breaking Bad. She initially gets seduced or emotionally blackmailed into helping Walter, and she's even good at it, but in the end, she can't make the choices he makes, and the safwty of her new baby causes her to leave Walter. That's her redemption, but we see it has a painful price. I like this because it shows that redemption can be a hard road. You fon't just get a ticker tape parade for turning around and becoming one of the good guys.
Interesting. I always saw her more as stuck in the situation than willing to be part of it. She goes through Walt's activities as a way to keep her family together and even a victim.
I can't say the character that gets redeemed without spoiling the show, but let's just say the whole Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and El Camino universe.
GoT spoilers As you said, some audiences don't like when redemption arcs are followed by the death of the character. I believe that's the biggest flaw of 8th season of GoT, as both Theon Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister die right after the end of their redemption arc. These characters are given a way too easy end for the complexity they have reached.
I hated what they did with Jamie at the end. It would have been so much better if he realized he had to kill Ceresei, and then his reputation that was tarnished when he killed the evil king would have been redeemed when he killed the evil queen. But hey, dying under a pile of bricks is cool too. Not
Darth Vader living a normal life after killing Palpatine would have been very interesting. I'd never thought of that before. It seems like a big missed opportunity.
Can a redemption story be the person's reasons for doing what they do? Example: wife or child dying the protagonist vows to do whatever he can to change that. He/she goes on to do awful things. Reader doesn't know why until end.
Yes, motivation can totally change how you view the character, as can be a reveal that they didn't do what it seemed at first. Example is any double or triple agent working for good guys despite pretending to be working for baddies. Think what if Schindler sabotaging ammo production and helping Jews wasn't known until the end. Harry Potter had that with Severus Snape who was sabotaging Voldemort's efforts despite having to feed him some information to look convincing. But think if the change in information will be perceived by the reader. If there's a serial killer then maybe having a sick child won't make him look redeemable... But a thief who looks greedy at first but later is revealed to stealing so she can feed orphans? Totally works.
Great video. What do you feel about a kill the dog moment at the beginning of a redemption arc? My protagonist actually kills a dog on the opening act and I just fear its too unforgivable for some audiences...
There's no redemption for gollum was bound by the ring and it says so in the dialogue he never redeems himself until the very end when he dies with the ring
Hello Brandon! I was wondering: what are your specific sources/documentation for this video? I’m currently working on a project on redemption and that would be helpful!
Prior to writing the script for this video, I watched a few other RUclips videos on the subject of writing redemption stories (there aren't many out there--just search them on RUclips) and also did some Googling. I think I got some ideas from Reddit and author blog posts. The rest is my own input.
Also, my kids used to LOVE the tv series about fairy tale characters. Can’t remember the name of the series, but “Mr. Gold/Rumplestilskin” is endlessly fluctuating. You hate to love him. Love to hate him.
I would probably go for Kratos from God of War. (spoilers) . . . . . After destroying Greece, he builds a new life knowing that deep down he is a monster. By the time we meet him in 2018, he has withdrawn into himself until his wife dies, and he has to go on this major odyssey with his son. Both learn from each other during the journey, and Kratos learns to come to terms with what he has done. Although he relapses when he kills Baldur - a choice that should not have been his to make. Come Ragnarök, he takes the role of the wise sage who knows when to take a life and (more importantly) when not to. He reconciles with Freya, and while trying to avoid the fight with Asgard for most of the game, he finally realizes how to fight the good fight thus earning him the heroic status of a beloved god of peace. I think the reconciliation and reflection are extremely important parts of a redemption arc. Especially with the villain-turned-hero. A moment where they get to look the ones they have wronged in the eyes and - while not necessarily earning their forgiveness - at least reaching an understanding. This is what happens between Kratos and Freya. It is also why I am a bit sceptical about Darth Vader as a redemption arc. Darth Vader's redemption works well as a victory for Luke in terms of him regaining his humanity, but he lacks the reconciliation that would validate him truly redeeming himself. I actually thought about making a video about this if I ever got into making my own video essays.
He's interesting because while he's technically a Mary Sue, he's looking for a good fight, and the fact that he can win with one punch frustrates him. Avoiding making him a.Mary Sue.
Hot take: Anakin’s redemption arc is a shit redemption arc. I hate how the audience treats him as a hero and give him a free pass for doing one act of kindness after million acts of atrocities simply because he is the protagonist of the franchise. Saul Goodman’s redemption is better but that’s not quite a high bar.
It's not a hot take it's just ordinary missing the parallel to the penitent thief story in the Bible. George Lucas grew up Methodist, and while he mixed his beliefs with quasi-Buddhist philosophy, in Christianity, redemption is NOT based on karma. But on your end state. Why? Well good luck going around fixing wrongs when you're already crucified or dying because of injuries.
Darth Vader is character 'redemption' you don't write because he does the whole redemption thing wrong start to finish. Not sympathetic, not understandable, loved murdering people, loved power, and turned because... plot demanded it!
Zuko from "Avatar" has a great classic redemption arc.
I think it's pretty obvious he hasn't seen Avatar: The Last Airbender. He hasn't mentioned it in any of his videos (and some of them ATLA is the perfect example he is talking about), but if anybody doesn't mention Zuko in a video about redemption arcs, then either they haven't seen it, or they're a criminal. LOL
@@5BBassist4Christ and thankfully so, we can at least hear new arguments xD
Of course, right from the first episode, we could see he was an antivillain with a high likelihood of redemption. Unlike Vader.
It’s funny how Zuko has become a “textbook” example of redemption in the last decade and change. Those writers were ON IT.👊🏾🔥
Oh yeah. One of the, if not the, best ever written in my opinion.
This is a very basic example, but Piccolo and Vegeta in Dragon Ball. They both go from enemies to "just" rivals, allies and finally friends in a pretty natural way for how contrived plots usually are in DB.
Avatar the Last Airbender has one of the best redemption arcs I’ve ever seen.
Once again, you are batting a thousand.
One thing I think should be considered, which is that redemption can't completely heal the character's feeling about the original failure to act or wrong choice. The character might be redeemed as much as 99%, but never 100%. There will always be psychological scars.
A redemption arc is a prescriptive arc, but there always will be a cautionary component baked into it.
If we show the character getting full and complete redemption, that won't be realistic. The past, itself, can't be undone. What a story should do is placed the character on a path to redemption, show them making progress, and show them reaching very close to that stage of full redemption.
Thank you--and good point about the original failure leaving a stain
Good examples. I like A Christmas Carol and Voyage of the Dawn Treader as examples of redemption tales. Ebenezer Scrooge in the first and Eustace in the second.
Good call, I almost included Scrooge in this video
OMG Eustace and also Edmond in the Narnia books as well. Really great writing for them both.
For me Eustace's redemption arc resolution was a bit secondary (like, the purely technical thing); but I was completely caught off guard by the naturalness of the presenting the concept that one shouldn't be necessarily be somehow exceptionally bad, weak, spoiled to commit a betrayal or meanness. And - of course also a bit secondary - how subtle and innocent can evil look and behave baking the temptation.
BTW, that's one of major reasons I love hags in the settings like Forgotten Realms.
Kratos from God of War is the epitome of a redemption story. Everything is earned and takes time. He works hard for his redemption and there no cheap sacrifice as a cop out. He must admit his mistakes and live with them and the redemption fits really well with the evil act: after killing his wife and daughter, he must raise a new son and try to be a good father. It's such a beautiful story of.
A very obvious one but the Red Dead Redemption 1 & 2 games. It's clear what redemption looks like to each character, why they choose it and both the good and bad ripple effects it creates. You can choose how you behave and it makes subtle differences to the story and the characters around you are so well developed that you care about the way they think about you. The redemption doesn't start until halfway in, so you're in the mindset of the anti-hero before the agent of change and have to adjust your mentality and go through the changes with the character. I would love to have that experience again for the first time.
One of my favorite redemptions is from the IDW Transformers comics, where Megatron started out wanting to tear down the caste system that kept Cybertronians from being free (they were forced into roles by what they turn into, and could never be anything else) and actually had noble goals in starting the war before going too far and becoming a tyrant. He realizes at one point in the series that he hates who and what he's become, and he renounces the Decepticon cause and actively becomes an Autobot. And despite knowing he can never possibly do enough good to atone for the bad he's done, he tries anyway. Few people like him, fewer still trust him, he has to deal with old Decpticons wanting to kill him for becoming a apostate, and the comics really show him try to move away from "genocidal tyrant" and try to do some good before he's sentenced for his innumerable crimes.
The Transformers comics are like the complete antithesis of the godawful Michael Bay movies in that they're well written with strong characterization and themes, and Megatron's attempt at redemption (even knowing he can never receive absolution) is a great example of that, and a fantastic redemption arc for a character who's so much more than the cackling cartoon villain the character is in other incarnations.
THANK YOU, SOMEONE HAD TO SAY IT ✨️
Such an underrated video and channel, it may be niche but it's so good for people even remotely interested in knowing how to write good stories
Thank you so much!
Im trying to write a redemption arc for one of my characters in my story and this helped me out very much! Thank you!😊😊
Glad to hear it! Please tell others about the channel!
What's your favorite redemption story? Let us know, and be sure to mark for spoilers!
I know its not a finished redemption arc yet, but i like how Endeavor is trying to make amends for what he did to his family in My Hero Academia.
@@SyroNagashi Haven't watched MHA so I'll have to take your word for it
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Earl Hickey from My Name Is Earl. The entire show is a long hilarious redemption arc. :)
Lelouch vi Britannia from Code Geass.
There's a lot of characters with greatly written redemption arcs, but I'm going with Zuko since he's the first that popped up.
Vader's death for me was his heroic act. His crimes in that universe were too much for a life thereafter. His realisation through Luke's belief in his good side is what helps clear that darkside smog and what better than to have his child tell him this, a son that can live in a universe free of his dark reign. A hopeful future.
I do find rehabilitation after redemption an interesting path having said this. Or it could be reversed. Because as much as we dont want a cheap change of heart the people left over who were affected wont have that same view either.
Thanks for the video.
Usually, redemption arcs are for people who have done terrible things, like Vader. They are written in a way that we are supposed to automatically forgive them because they made the right choice in the end. Which won't fly in today's world. We very much refuse to accept people for the errors of their way. I think the key to redemption arcs needs to adapt to this. Instead of making it seem like all is forgotten like Darth Vader. Instead of all is forgotten, looked at the former vile person working to do their best o make up for all the evil they have done. The mainframe should be that they know it is unlikely they will make up for it.
Great point. Many people have lost the ability to compartmentalize--in other words, they can't accept the idea that a person who has "sinned" can be anything other than a sinner. They can't distinguish a wrongful act from the whole person. In truth, almost all people are a mix of good, bad, and neutral, yet the bad gets all the attention nowadays.
With characters, I think it's easier to forgive them because the writer's job is to manipulate the audience's emotions. With Jaime Lannister, I went from hating him in S1-2 to viewing him as my favorite GoT character from S3 onward. Once I understood him better and saw him perform acts of self-sacrifice and heroism, I was able to forgive him for pushing Bran out a window in the first episode. I'm having a similar experience with characters from the show The Boys, although I'm only a couple episodes into S2 so far.
That said, I think there's value in making the right choice in the end. Vader killing Palpatine swings the fate of the galaxy. Does it bring back the younglings Anakin personally slaughtered in Ep3? No. Does it rebuild the planets he helped destroy? No. But killing Palpatine and that final admission of "You were right, Luke" still resonates for me. I get why it doesn't work for some (Vader becomes a Force ghost and faces no consequences for decades of destruction), but the alternative is that he could've let Palpatine and the Empire continue to thrive. That has to count for something.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty There reason why people today only see the sin and not the whole person, this is because too many people have changed from one bad public decision or action. They come back proving they changed from that, but there is far worse they still do, because people don't know about it. It is only recently, that we are seeing people being held fully accountable for the majority of bad they have done. This is why redemption arcs need to focus more on attempted redemption. The character needs to know they will not fully be forgiven for their actions, but seek to do as much good as they can in their remaining time.
@@TimRG This would completely go against concept of redemption though. Imagine Jesus, while being crucified, telling the penitent thief "now get down from the cross and go make enough good deeds to outweigh your faults, then we'll have Twitter decide whether you're good enough to be un-canceled with a poll, but you have to accept that you will not be forgiven by everyone and will always go around feeling guilty, and everyone will remind you of that all the time. Everyone will judge you... Morality police is watching. Always."
When in Bible, it went like this:
Like 23:42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me, when you come into your kingdom."
43 He replied to him, "Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
It doesn't matter what you believe in, that's how Christianity goes and works made by Christian authors will generally reflect that, see Boromir's redemption being just that, repenting right before death.
Sure he makes a heroic last stand against Middle-Earth version of russians, but he was already redeemed by that point, self-sacrifice is just adding the biggest Christian virtue on top by the religious author.
Servants of Tash get chances of redemption at any point in Narnia, so does the traitor, and he's forgiven before he has a chance to actually do anything... as it should be... I mean, won't it characterize other characters in poor light if they go full Karen and refuse to accept someone who's genuinely sorry and just stand in the corner tapping their foot while waiting for the repenting person to single handedly (literally) save the galaxy, AND THEN still declare them not good enough?)
Oh and Star Wars is very blunt at Anakin going to their version of Heaven. Name change is also important because a convert is "a new person". So Vader died when Anakin turned to light side and the guy who yeeted Palatine into a reactor was a different person theologically.
Reason it works is because Jesus (in Narnia's case, Aslan) sacrifices himself for others salvation. So people get redeemed without doing shit because somebody else already paid the highest toll. That's not some spiritual belief it's a core doctrine of this religion.
Now then authors of different faith and upbringing will have different views on that but this example is very obvious.
@@KasumiRINA, the first redemption arcs have nothing to do with Christianity. Second, referencing Morality Police caused me to lose all interest in what you had to say. Christianity might be the truth to you, but it's not to others. Especially me.
@@TimRG It's an example, not proselytizing. You didn't even address the comment. I guess I can't change your mind, but just know that your view of morality and human redemption is extremely unpopular (yes, even today as your original comment mentioned), and few would find it compelling if it were applied to a story.
Hudson from Aliens. Most of the story he is a cowardly jerk, but he goes out like a hero fighting off the aliens
I was always a fan of Starlight Glimmer's redemption. Started off doing bad things for what she thought was a good reason, so the desire to do good was always there to be improved upon. Her early episodes had her still use her scheming ways to avoid problems or arrive at what she thought would be good outcomes, but failing to address the problems or truly learning how to get along with others by doing so. She doubted herself hundreds of times and even doubted her teachings at least once but found the resolve to stick to them each time. Her final moment of redemption also cast off her villainous idea that she had to take charge of situations by instead being a supporting player who reminded her teacher she was right to favor redemption in the first place. The end of her journey also inverts her beginning, going from a cult leader forcing her own beliefs onto people to a school administrator that lets other people share their own beliefs.
Catra's redemption arc from She-ra and the princesses of power reboot
Great video, Brandon! I have a secondary character in my novel who is a college student that becomes a drug dealer. After witnessing a murder and a young model’s suicide (both his customers) he stops selling and using. He establishes a positive relationship with a supportive woman and returns home to reconnect with his younger brother and sister. The message? There’s always hope.
Nice, sounds like a pretty strong subplot--best of luck with your novel!
This is a video on redemption. Now do a video on when a character starts off good, but something happens along the way that they become the villain. Tony Almeida in 24 is a good example. Through five seasons he was good, but after his wife's death, he returns in season 7, initially as a bad guy, but it's quickly discovered he's undercover and then you eventually discover he was a bad guy all along going after the man who orchestrated his wife's murder. His wife's death was the switch. He was such a likeable character that I think people were really hoping he'd get redemption, but it never happened and it's why I loved that character arc.
One of my favorite stories with a redemption arc is the film The Family Man. It's an interesting case though because Jack's starting point is downplayed. He seems to be on top of the world--a rich, powerful executive who lacks nothing. But by the end of the film, he wishes he had made a different choice 13 years ago, and his motivation and behavior completely change.
Great example
Thanks for the video Brandon! I especially appreciated the tips at the end and specifically the one about making sure that the redemptive actions are equal to the falling action.
One of my biggest pet peeves in stories is the insta redemption or almost worse the insta-corruption. That's my biggest pet peeve in the Star Wars prequel trilogy. Anakin's fall is basically like yep I'm a good guy oh wait nope I'm killing kids. Looking forward to your next video!
Thanks! And Anakin's fall was foreshadowed in Episode 2 when he slaughtered the people who captured his mother. The buildup to his fall could've been a lot more compelling, but the pieces are there.
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty They also cover more of Anakin's character arc and descent to Vader in Clone Wars, thankfully. I too agree that it still seemed a little sudden, even with the foreshadowing in ep 2. Granted, not the best character writing in the prequel trilogies and also the format of movies being ~2 hours sort of limits what can be shown on screen, though perhaps a few more moments of internal struggle or depictions of desperation might have helped.
Anyhow, I think one reason why Star Wars as a whole is so beloved and acclaimed is the story of Anakin's fall and redemption, despite having to die at the end. I'm sure some people argue that his death *was* the punishment and atonement for his past atrocities.
@@dianasaurstudio I badly need to check out Clone Wars. Thanks for the reminder!
Yeah I can't stand that either. If you're going to have someone changing sides, have it make sense - give them a solid rationale and a good reason to. Almost always for going to the good side, there is character growth behind it. It doesn't feel right if there isn't any. Unless you build them up as willing to change sides for a specific reason ie, amoral as hell but get mad when someone hurts children. (Like the Ravagers.)
9:07 Imo, this last tip is why the best redemption arcs are in shows/series and not in stand-alone movies. There's more time for them.
John Silver in Treasure Planet
Ben Wade in 3:10 to Yuma
I'd like to see a short video of your analysis of Jenny's redemption in Forest Gump
I just read Jane Eyre (by Charlotte Bronte). Mr Rochester is a good study regarding the topic of redemption vs damnation.
Good call! I read Jane Eyre in college, and you're right--Rochester has a solid redemption arc
Londo Mollari from B5. Five season arc where he becomes an absolute monster but slowly claws his way back.
Incredible character and redemption arc
The Arbiter in Halo 2 was a really good redemption arc and was easily the best part of that game.
Zuko has the best redemption arc
99 percent of the arrowverse redemption arc sucks
Came across Zuko's name a lot while I was researching this topic
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty Got to get to watching that show already
Nah, Catra's is better. There's more depth and complexity
Negan from the Walking Dead universe.
I love Negans redemption arc in the walking dead, cause it took him a really long time to change, and he kept kinda falling back into his old ways of thinking
Artimus Fowl is one long redemption series. He spends the later books making up for all the things he did when he was an evil little genius. Heck, he had to TRAVEL BACK IN TIME to save a species he got extinct out of SPITE.
Such a helpful video. Phenomenal.
Thrilled to hear it. Thanks!
Xena's entire show is her seeking redemption.
I think "Blood Diamond" is a good example of a redemption arc. Danny Archer is unremittingly selfish and callous and cynical throughout the whole movie. At times, he helps others, but one is always left to suspect that he only does so out of self-interest. Even close to the end, he is harsh and ruthless in his treatment of Solomon Vandy. But at the end, when he's wounded, he knows he's only slowing down Solomon, and he tells Solomon to leave him behind to die: the first unmistakably selfless thing we've ever seen him do.
Can you make a video about how to make the villain win in a story
For you, Darth, absolutely. What specifically would you like me to cover in that video?
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty I'm not sure what was the initial Darth's intention, but since he did not come back - I'll pick up the black banner.
0. A different but related topic: how to make the villain the reasonable protagonist. // that technically most likely assumes that he should finally win. // Trivial way - over the greater evil, but there definitely should other options. Other trivial way - slightly cheat the reader: protagonist isn't really evil, he is just antisocial, unpleasant... for child audiences - Shrek.
OK, villain wins
1. How to help the reader to feel satisfied? Things like Call of Cthulhu (TTRGs) come to mind, where in many cases 'winning' means 'staying in reasonably sane mind facing the horror beyond your grasp'.
2. How to help reader to empathize the villain's victory over the protagonist?
With Tony Stark and Darth Vader, Im guessing the character's change of heart can come at any time? Although the arc seems to always conclude at the climax?
By charge of heart, do you mean the moment where they realize they're wrong and need to make amends?
@@WriterBrandonMcNulty yeah, so with vader, his arc seems to be entirely one scene at the climax. But tony stark realizes his error by act 2.
@@TrevorDuran3390 I get what you're saying. Vader's arc is more about coming to the realization that it's not too late to change, whereas Tony Stark's arc is about the process of changing himself (not just in the first IM movie, but over the course of the entire original MCU when he goes from self-absorbed to self-sacrificing)
I'd say Regina/the Evil Queen from the Once Upon a Time TV series. Really great redemption arc there.
Favorite story with redemption ark: The Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe. Or perhaps Dawn Treader
Warrior (2011) Joel Edgerton, Tom Hardy, Nick Nolte
3 powerful redemption arcs from each of the main characters.
I think Kerrigan from StarCraft is a good example of a redemption.
I was actually looking for this💀
Lessgo
Nice! Hope it helps
Kratos of all people got a pretty fleshed out redemption arc.
HAL (the computer in "2001: A Space Odyssey") is redeemed in the sequel "2010: The Year We Make Contact."
I particularly like the arc of Skylar White in Breaking Bad. She initially gets seduced or emotionally blackmailed into helping Walter, and she's even good at it, but in the end, she can't make the choices he makes, and the safwty of her new baby causes her to leave Walter. That's her redemption, but we see it has a painful price.
I like this because it shows that redemption can be a hard road. You fon't just get a ticker tape parade for turning around and becoming one of the good guys.
Interesting. I always saw her more as stuck in the situation than willing to be part of it. She goes through Walt's activities as a way to keep her family together and even a victim.
@@acidjumps At first she was, but she embraced it. The car wash was her idea.
I can't say the character that gets redeemed without spoiling the show, but let's just say the whole Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and El Camino universe.
GoT spoilers
As you said, some audiences don't like when redemption arcs are followed by the death of the character. I believe that's the biggest flaw of 8th season of GoT, as both Theon Greyjoy and Jaime Lannister die right after the end of their redemption arc. These characters are given a way too easy end for the complexity they have reached.
I hated what they did with Jamie at the end. It would have been so much better if he realized he had to kill Ceresei, and then his reputation that was tarnished when he killed the evil king would have been redeemed when he killed the evil queen. But hey, dying under a pile of bricks is cool too. Not
Claire from Jurassic World. She put work first and avoided her nephews. She redeemed herself by saving them, i think.
Darth Vader living a normal life after killing Palpatine would have been very interesting. I'd never thought of that before. It seems like a big missed opportunity.
Can a redemption story be the person's reasons for doing what they do? Example: wife or child dying the protagonist vows to do whatever he can to change that. He/she goes on to do awful things. Reader doesn't know why until end.
Yes, motivation can totally change how you view the character, as can be a reveal that they didn't do what it seemed at first.
Example is any double or triple agent working for good guys despite pretending to be working for baddies. Think what if Schindler sabotaging ammo production and helping Jews wasn't known until the end. Harry Potter had that with Severus Snape who was sabotaging Voldemort's efforts despite having to feed him some information to look convincing.
But think if the change in information will be perceived by the reader. If there's a serial killer then maybe having a sick child won't make him look redeemable... But a thief who looks greedy at first but later is revealed to stealing so she can feed orphans? Totally works.
Great video.
What do you feel about a kill the dog moment at the beginning of a redemption arc?
My protagonist actually kills a dog on the opening act and I just fear its too unforgivable for some audiences...
Googled "writing redemption arks". Got hundreds of Zuko and Vader references. Ok, seems logical 😅
There's no redemption for gollum was bound by the ring and it says so in the dialogue he never redeems himself until the very end when he dies with the ring
My favorite childhood redemption arc is lord garmadon in season 10 of ninjago
My boy Arthur Morgan
Hello Brandon! I was wondering: what are your specific sources/documentation for this video? I’m currently working on a project on redemption and that would be helpful!
Do you mean the sources of the movie clips or the writing advice?
Prior to writing the script for this video, I watched a few other RUclips videos on the subject of writing redemption stories (there aren't many out there--just search them on RUclips) and also did some Googling. I think I got some ideas from Reddit and author blog posts. The rest is my own input.
Asajj Ventress. She needs her story told on screen. Disney + give us anything! A book doesn't cut it.
Also, my kids used to LOVE the tv series about fairy tale characters. Can’t remember the name of the series, but “Mr. Gold/Rumplestilskin” is endlessly fluctuating. You hate to love him. Love to hate him.
Once Upon A Time
I would probably go for Kratos from God of War. (spoilers)
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After destroying Greece, he builds a new life knowing that deep down he is a monster. By the time we meet him in 2018, he has withdrawn into himself until his wife dies, and he has to go on this major odyssey with his son. Both learn from each other during the journey, and Kratos learns to come to terms with what he has done. Although he relapses when he kills Baldur - a choice that should not have been his to make. Come Ragnarök, he takes the role of the wise sage who knows when to take a life and (more importantly) when not to. He reconciles with Freya, and while trying to avoid the fight with Asgard for most of the game, he finally realizes how to fight the good fight thus earning him the heroic status of a beloved god of peace.
I think the reconciliation and reflection are extremely important parts of a redemption arc. Especially with the villain-turned-hero. A moment where they get to look the ones they have wronged in the eyes and - while not necessarily earning their forgiveness - at least reaching an understanding. This is what happens between Kratos and Freya. It is also why I am a bit sceptical about Darth Vader as a redemption arc. Darth Vader's redemption works well as a victory for Luke in terms of him regaining his humanity, but he lacks the reconciliation that would validate him truly redeeming himself.
I actually thought about making a video about this if I ever got into making my own video essays.
Lord Jim.
Yondu had a redemption ark kinda
Jamie Lannister was easily my favourite redemption arc, until the final season completely ruined it.
I feel your pain. Easily my favorite character on the show.
Spoilers, My favourite redemption arcs are Arthur from red dead redemption 2 😂 and Negan from the walkingdead.
🤠👍🏿
Thanks for watching!
I think I missed the bonus tips
The "Final Thoughts" section at 8:17
Draco Malfoy is perfect example of redemption
How to redeem characters the right way.
actually, a good example: one punch man is overpowered as hell, but he's still interesting. Maybe because he's existencial issues lol
He's interesting because while he's technically a Mary Sue, he's looking for a good fight, and the fact that he can win with one punch frustrates him. Avoiding making him a.Mary Sue.
Hot take: Anakin’s redemption arc is a shit redemption arc. I hate how the audience treats him as a hero and give him a free pass for doing one act of kindness after million acts of atrocities simply because he is the protagonist of the franchise. Saul Goodman’s redemption is better but that’s not quite a high bar.
It's not a hot take it's just ordinary missing the parallel to the penitent thief story in the Bible.
George Lucas grew up Methodist, and while he mixed his beliefs with quasi-Buddhist philosophy, in Christianity, redemption is NOT based on karma. But on your end state.
Why? Well good luck going around fixing wrongs when you're already crucified or dying because of injuries.
Darth Vader is character 'redemption' you don't write because he does the whole redemption thing wrong start to finish. Not sympathetic, not understandable, loved murdering people, loved power, and turned because... plot demanded it!