IZZY'S SECRET | Mancubus Is the KEY to Understanding Wonderlands?!? (Borderlands Theory)
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Wonderlands may seem like a simple board game, but what if it was all affected by a single proprietor.
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In an early aside in the game Tina mentions that Paladin Mike is being played (presumably remotely) by some "nerdy barista" who had sent her the figurine. Since it's the same voice actor as Lorelei in B3, and since Lorelei was a barista before being recruited by Rhys, that's another connection.
It also sounds like her as well, especially the "Open The Door" comment she made.
It also make a call back to her first side mission which is to supply coffee to the atlas defence army, additionally explaining why her coffee is so specific rather than just being “coffee”
Nobody caressssd
Paladin Mike isn't being played remotely by Lorelei, she just says that she met Lorelei and borrowed the character for her campaign.
@@kujo4388 well you came here to say it, so you must care too
honestly id love it if in bl4 they make one of the characters is a robot who you slowly realize is actually the dragon lord or some important character like if they had the dragon lord maybe his melee could be the sword
It's a nice link between the games, I could easily see Tina latching onto the name after hearing it in passing from somebody, or by interacting with him herself. I personally see it as foreshadowing if people are fans enough of the new additions, that they'll use that connection to pull things into Borderlands 4. Like during the tutorial you hear Tina trying to get somebodies attention while they're talking to the new Vault Hunters, when suddenly there's a flash from where Tina's at and suddenly there goes the Dragon Lord flying past.
I love the theory of the connection to Mancubus! Such a cool idea! I had the same thought about Tiny being active on the EchoNet and meeting any number of people that way, including Mancubus.
I think tina might have just been making up the sentience thing as an extra plot point for fun. none of the characters mention it beyond a couple "that wasn't supposed to happen!" which just seems to be her playing it up, to me.
I think the term “void god” would imply that they serve no real purpose or that the aren’t connected to something.
I love Mancubus, voiced by Egoraptor.
Izzy after you beat the main story she will mention that she knows she's in a game.
sounds pretty good to me, i wonder if it might come up again in some dlc
I don't know who dryl is because that's Darryl
Wow.
You raise some good points but it is also possible that Tina just has a dissociative disorder. God knows she should after all shes been through. Dissociative identities, what the majority of people know of as "multiple personalities" work differently than what is advertised in mass media. Often times people create dissociative identities to escape some form of trauma. They sort of partition off the part that has to deal with the things you're avoiding. On the whole, you are aware of your so called alters. You would be. You created them. But you tend to go into auto pilot and sometimes aren't aware of what's happening or what you're doing. It's kinda implied that Tina is a psycho... the word in the context of the game. And also reality given how morally indifferent she is. She has the mask, has the fried neurons, has the explosion fetish...
Then you have Krieg, who also deals with his problems by creating an alter to push the pain and suffering they lived through onto. Both are suffering from a pretty extreme dissociative disorder, just tina is functional. Krieg is... Krieg. There's also something heavily implied to be wrong with Pandora, that creates these psychos. They aren't just people who have gone crazy the planet it's self is doing something to the people who are exposed to it. I mean Mancubus could obviously be involved... At the same time, there's an argument to be made that it's an alternate reality that she just happens to have control over. Haven't you ever wondered? What if every work of fiction and fantasy is actually happening somewhere... If Mancubus can go anywhere with his lodge, he can also go to alternate dimensions, realities, time lines.
Maybe a minor spoiler after the end credit, you go back to talk to Izzy about changing your class and your character is confused about that, and she says that "They're all in a game" played by "The giant in the skies". She almost seem like the only one that seem to be sentient about it.
She also mentions she saw our character talking to the sky giants about the game so thats how she put it together
I had izzy talk to me in a demonic voice once I didn't think much of it until now.
I've broken the fourth wall and had a character call out players all the time as a DM. Tina's insane. Doesn't mean there's anything magically meta about the game.
I also have a vague memory of her saying that thinking about it being a game helps her forget about all the blood on her hands. Is that just me?
@@KouriRyu The universe of Borderlands itself means there is something magically meta about the game, what exactly is still the question. Could it be one of Mancubus' deals like the video suggests, could it be something involving the sirens, could it be something about Tina herself? We won't know until the devs of the series confirms it either directly or through in-game details.
That makes sense. The fact that the dragon lord and izzy were sentient made me confused. That said you didn't mention that izzy knows they're in a board game. She says as much after you beat the dragon lord.
yea like when she mentions the towering sky gods ( or something like that)
maybe it has to do with the whole soul energy thing
@@taylorgarrett793 the players are the towering sky gods
xD
I don't think they're sentient. Tina just split her personality a little bit and that's where the pieces went...
@@nightmareTomek izzy IS sentient. she says so at the end of the game. she, on her own, notices the players and realizes she’s in a game that she has no control over
@@dykemoder That's what Tina wants you gullible folk to believe!! It's why she made izzy say that in the first place.
I love how you people jump to conclusions...
One thing to go along with this is that The Lodge shows Salvador among its banned persons. Salvador has canonically never left Pandora, meaning The Lodge has been to Pandora at some point.
However, I disagree that the Overworld, D'ryl or the Fearamyd is what Mancubus gave to Tina. I think it was the whole set itself. We see when Tina throws D'ryl on the board that the Manual has a page for him, meaning Mancubus didn't just give her a figure - unless both the manual AND figure came from Mancubus.
I think he gave Tina the whole set - and not for a trade, but because he recognized her innocence and loneliness. After all, when he sends us to retrieve the Nibblenomicon, it's not for a trade or to Unleash evil, it's to improve the wedding festivities. Mancubus isn't the devil, trading and making deals in his favor, he's Lovecraftian, granting chaotic boons.
Is not the Devil, is a man succubus...
Mancubus does both resemble physically and characteristically a character from the Lovecraftian mythos. He may be a reference to Nyarlathotehp, the Crawling Chaos. He's just this nebulous entity that gives....things to be people.
I think you may be onto something with the idea that the whole kit came from Mancubus... it's true D'ryl is in the manual, but so is The Dragon Lord and he's Tina's own creation, so would be in an official manual
@@victoriaabrilvazquez9863 a male succubus is an incubus though
The lodge has rules. Like keeping his bargain throughing his best wedding or helping you fight a giant vault god heart to punish his threat to the lodge
If Mancubus made a deal it was probably out of these rules
I feel the sword of souls is the item that gives things souls. They always talk about how the dragon lords energy is the same that tina puts into her worlds. Also at the end when the sword of souls pierces the sky the real characters see it and are confused.
I kind of wish the dragon lord was trying to find a way to become real it's obvious that he was becoming self-sentient like he knows he's a bunkers and badass character maybe there was like a eridium tech like an amulet that creates fictional things to life.
I like this
@@profpuffofficial2 thank you
I wish they revealed he was a player as well, sitting at the table
Im betting my chips on a 'cursed dice'
@@alyshacoe2082 that's more fitting a pair of curse dices I didn't think of that.
This would make sense because when I was doing a chaos chamber run in the loot room I had gotten a armor referencing Gythian
Badass
I got one named Gythian's Tongue!
Gythians tongue!!!!
I think it might be the book, there are characters in it that she created yet didn't draw herself, and she added little notes to the pages also the entire world is in there so I think that might be what she got from him
This is a pretty good theory and I could definitely see this happening
This is true
I'm guessing that the cursed item is probably Tina's hat. Sense she doesn't appear to have it in the other Boarderlands games.
I dunno, if it was anything I’m thinking it’s the sword of souls
@@Reegor In the story it seemed that Tina and the other two already knew about the sword of souls.
@@Reegor i don't think it's the sword of souls because Roland used that as an item in his game when he introduced Tina to B&B (revealed in the ending).
@@necromancer0616 because they played the campaign before... The beginning of the game is them finishing it... Then they decide to play again, and the game begins...
Personally I hope the dragon lord somehow make a return in the next borderlands game him and Tina meeting seems really interesting
The dragonlord is tina’s bunkers and badasses character. The lorekeeper is Roland, who originally taught her the game.
How would this even be possible 🤦♂️
@@jackmuir6249 easy between the supernatural, alien/vault tec, or a going into Tina mind mind or b like jack make an ai
@@danzanares personally can’t see it happening I feel like this will be a one time thing they won’t address bunkers and badasses after this in the main games maybe only subtle nods to it
People who never played borderlands 3 dlc be like "who is mancubus?"
Arin Hanson
They be missing out. Mancubus is probably my favorite npc.
He's a fat guy from Doom
I really hope for three things to come in the dlc's
1: we get an explanation on we things are coming alive in the BNB
2: we get to see Tina grow up between dlc's and get hints at the upcoming war
3: this one is a wishlist item but I want a pirate class so I can have a dogfish as a pet because Holy crap was I excited when I first saw one (also working on a stat block and mini to use in my own dnd games lol)
nice pal really using 100% of ya brain
It’s possible, the fourth one is supposed to have a new class, it’s in the season pass description
Ah yes the war
@@petervelcro4609 Nobody is using 100% of their brain.
@@Deusaga everyone is
What if the price for Izzy is the cursed one? Like it's not actually a piece but Mancubus's daughter or some other family member turned into a statue and since she is related to him she is what's bringing the wonderlands to life? Like her own lodge. The Wonderlands provides in it's own ways like an escape or vacation from reality.
Edit: I just thought of the sword of souls being the cursed piece as well especialy since the story in a way centered around it.
i could easily see her being mancubus's daughter and willingly being a part of Tina's BnB campaigns. probs seen enough "real" worlds with normal logic (as normal as borderlands gets anyway) and went to Tina's board as a way to experience worlds and people that otherwise couldnt ever exist. to her Tina's life time could be incredibly short so passing the years in the board wouldnt seem that long to her, even during the years Tina doesnt play it, to basically be a nice little vacation before returning to running an actual bar or helping out at the lodge.
Tiny Tina in her cave: this campaign is gonna be awesome! A little bit of magic there, some explosives here and lots and lots of loot
Suddenly Outside her cave she hears a weird sound, like an octopus exploding then imploding
Tiny Tina: who’s out there! I swear if you come any closer I will blow this cave to kingdom com!!!
Walking from around the corner, comes a thin fellow in a dark suit, crying black ichor from his shark like eyes: fear not dear Tina, I have come for a simple trade.
Tina: what do want smelly skelly telly man? You want explosives?, bombs!? Or explosives bunnies?!? Well too bad I’m making a campaign right now.
Manncubus: hmmmmm Bunkers and Badasses…I seeeeee, how about this (from behind his back he brings out a large pyramid structure and a book), this pyramid’s name is hard to pronounce but I always call it the “fearamid” it’s has the power to create anything you want in this fantasy world but you’ll need this book (the book he holds looks dusty and old yet at the same time untouched by time) this tome will be the blue print and source for your world. As an aspiring GM you will need this.
Tiny Tina drooling from her mouth with excitement and joy quickly shakes he head and attempts to appear professional: that will do cubus, so what do need in return?
Manncubus: I need an explosive, a bomb that can crack the skies! But be as quiet as whisper….
Tiny Tina: Criptick…I like it, give me a week and I’ll make it for you.
Manncubus: goood good, the lodge will appreciate your kind gesture and I shall give you these items as…a down payment. I must warn you, these… items have some unique after effects.
Tiny Tina: yeah yeah yeah (barely listening) too squeak, I get it.
Manncubus: see you soon Tina, by the way Roland says hi
Tiny tina whirls around: what did you- (but finds Manncubus to be gone, no tracks no sound just gone)
If this theory is true, then this conversation is canon to me.
I had this feeling while playing through the game that there was a never ending story kinda thing going on.
it would be really interesting if in the last dlc for wonderlands the mancubus inn shows up in the game and he interacts with izzy and our character. i mean if his inn is magic/cursed then it would make sense it could show up anywhere sentience is.... they could have our character rest in it and have this be the last dlc with after credits of our character waking up in the real world and seeing some known current characters in the future, possibly an older tina..... that could be a good way to introduce our custom character as the newest vault hunter and possibly the final one we get that sticks around for future games, i mean a fatemaker would be a nice thing to have around in the big war that's on the horizon.. and since our character would still be based on the wonderlands mechanics we could always get new classes and abilities in future games and our warped view of how things work could alter how grenades work.... possibly making them spells.... if i remember right, in the fantastic fustercluck dlc our guns were mentioned to be real enough to bring out of Kriegs mind, because to our character they were real things and as long as we believed them to be real beyond a doubt, then we could keep them, so the powers we have in wonderlands could be in a similar boat.... just an interesting theory that if done and explained well could easily be a true thing they do... It would open up a lot of options for future games and the story since our character could truly alter the fate of everything with those abilities and have a strong effect on how reality works, at least for them.... it would be interesting how this could interact with the rule of the sirens too.... but i'll leave that for everyone to make their own theory's on.
It likely wouldn't be Your character the fate maker since they would have to create a canonical look for it. The dragon lord might make more sense.
@@exiledpain6 they could go with the gray non painted look they used in the trailers, just a blank slate..... then we can just customize them again.
@@Enzelon blank slate... It would get 10% more xp... 😉
@@victoriaabrilvazquez9863 you know the one you get around level cap or is it possible to get a early level variant
@@fuzzynubbins7700 I don't know, I found my first when I was in the chaos chamber at lvl40
this is actually pretty smart, turthfully, i want to see the Dragon Lord again, he was so cool and so funny all throughout the game, and he probably could return somehow im sure, would be cool
Apart from the possibility it could be a coincidence it would be something interesting to see mancubus could have a large part in the overall story having connections to practically everyone
Yep yep, there was a thought, a discussion, excitement, and then a specific Borderlands Universe encompassing vision. I can see him narrating Borderlands 4.
Cool find lol, I thought Tina just wrote the dragon lord like that on purpose to provide a plot twist in the story. Either way his character was pretty funny, enjoyed.
I just thought he embodied the part of her that still doubts herself.
We can't forget that Tina is weird, if not bordering on insane. She could have made up (and maybe partially believed) the whole thing about the Dragon Lord being a sentient prisoner in her game loop. Her boyfriend was a bug in a jar, after all.
About what you said in the beginning, about how we probably won’t care because the events are fictional in an already fictional universe. I think that can actually play to a stories strengths, it’s not about stakes and world ending plots. It’s a fun romp through a fantasy world, a safe space, given to us to enjoy. Even if it’s fictional our emotions, our adventures, and our relationships is the fun of things like DnD and video games. These aren’t real adventures, but when we put effort and care into them, they become worth just as much.
Anything with Will Arnett is safe enough for me to be in🥵
I dunno man, I don't need every piece of Borderlands content to be about vaults or the Eridians, but the doubly fictional nature of TTAoDK and Wonderlands just makes me not care at all. Maybe if they weren't constantly narrated by the actual Bunkers and Badasses players I'd be more invested (if Battleborn turned out to be a book/videogame in the Borderlands universe I'd still care about its characters and lore, for example). I guess it's just a matter of taste.
@@neroblackstone4350 damn! Lego Batman, Bojack Horseman & Gob bluth! 🤣
He is f*cking awesome!
I think its the soulsword. Every time an character grabs it, something wierd happen. The dragonlord becomes a second game master and our character gets his own will.
Couldn't be. The Sword of Souls is a pre established weapon in the base game. The Dragon Lord earned it when Tina played as a player (DL was called Dragon Knight back then).
@@blackmark2899 but the dl gets an consciousness befor wonderlands. He remembering anything what happens before and have feelings about what tina has done to him. He talks about the notetaker and all before, but details and emotions in his story came after he grabs the sword
@@MasterofPlaste that doesn't necessarily mean that he got his conciousness the moment he got the sword. He could still have the memory and had gotten his self awareness later. We know Tina built the Wonderlands well before she began her first session as a Bunker Master, DL says as much in his scrolls so whatever Tina got that gave DL his conciousness, could happened when she first made the Wonderlands.
If this theory were to become true, then maybe in the next Borderlands game the classes in Wonderlands may be ACTUAL classes to use.
I actually think tina might be the one who is cursed her self because if you fight the secret final boss of the dungeons by doing Tina's puzzles in the encounters her whole dialogue and purple dark magic like silhouette in that fight really just makes her look completely cursed
Izzy has that accent because of a pun. She's a "mini soda" seller with a "Minnesota" accent, don't ya know?
My theory is that Maya talked to Tina after visiting the lodge and Tina remembered the surname while writing Izzy and the dragon lord self awareness I dunno man I was like damn this dude is dope
EruptionFang: Comes up with a cool theory.
The probable actual reason:
Gearbox writers: "heh heh. Joke funny. *farts*"
Why is tina in a cave? Is she still on pandora? If so, where?
More likely its sanctuary because this is based on the events before BL3
@pflynn12 The game takes place after Assault on Dragon Keep, she's probably in a cave because Sanctuary blew up and the cave is temporary.
Top 10 things you can say both about Wonderlands and the Fantastic Fustercluck
@@alvor4503 i believe it also takes place after the events of commander illth and the fight for sanctuary.
I think the purple crystals also have some to do with it, as to me they look like they are eridium. What we know from their lore of the borderline series has some strange properties in can cause some strange anomalies in reality.
Knowing the strange and mysterious character of Mancubus Bloodtooth, the fact that Izzy is so self-aware of her existence,
it actually makes a whole lot of sense. Though it gives such a thick aura of mystery, and yet the sense is there.
Would it surprise anyone if you asked Mancubus, "By the way, do you know of another tavern owner named Izzy?"
And if he responds, "Ah, yes. A name that I know... quite well. I take it she is still leading her business of... soda pop?"
Honestly, it would NOT be surprising.
Although if you ask me, the theory of Mancubus making a trade with Tina seems irrelevant. I think that simply the name "Bloodtooth"
just mysteriously popped into her head and she just went with it. And as for Izzy, having a "4th Wall Awareness" we'll call it,
and being in Tina's game, well... that seems like another mystery that'll never be solved. And the Dragon Lord gaining his own sentience?
You SURE something like that doesn't just happen? I mean, we're talking about a fictional world WITHIN a fictional world.
Think on this, WHAT IF that a dream, a projection, an idea was used so often that bit by bit it got stronger & stronger up to the point
that it could think for itself? Again, this is the fictional world we're talking here. Things just happen without reason or logic.
I know you want explanations to understand it, but in my experience if you get your answers then the aura of mystery dissipates
and there's no interest left for it anymore. But if Gearbox writers will make that connection later on, then my theory is this:
By the next major DLCs coming out later, perhaps one of them will explain the connection between the Bloodtooth name?
One thing that disappointed me was that there’s like only 1 reference to the original dragon keep. Y’a know the whole reason we have this full game? I was hoping for some previous areas and characters and enemies. Minor nitpick nothin major
But that reference proves that the Dragon Lord was conscious of existence before Assault On Dragon Keep, as he remembers that he is not always the evil guy in Tina's B&B games...
Ok I was playing the other day when I walked in to Izzies and I noticed her eyes were glowing she looked down for a second then they went back to normal I am wondering if someone else had seen this if not it’s just a glitch but could explain this a little more plus the table could be the cursed object since everything is built upon it.
I saw it 2,I thought it was a bug, a glitch... Just like Tina's eye..
I saw it, it wasn't a bug though because there was ominous sounds to go with it.
Void god= a god of the void, in control or rule over empty space or literally a empty space the that exists and can interact with reality
There's also the matter of Izzy's postgame dialogue, where she talks about the events of the game's climax, how she saw Valentine, Tina, Frette, and, supposedly, Newbie. Izzy has gained as much sentience as Dragon Lord has it would seem, meaning it's *spreading*.
I've been playing wonderlands since it came out on steam, and I noticed something particularly weird about the Dragon Lord (spoilers, btw) in regards to Bones Three-wood and LeChance. He calls Tina out for not having their backstory figured out and improvising (calling her dropping of accents a dead giveaway), but when Tina mentions that they were cursed by him, suddenly he recalls that he cursed them to undeath, and he seemingly has no qualms with the fact that. It could just be fore-shadowing that in the climax, there's a struggle between him and her, but it leaves the impression that even though he has some degree of autonomy, there's a subtle touch that Tina has as the BM that even he cannot realize has been acted upon.
when we first enter the overworld, it refers to the game as a living game board. overall I definitely feel mancubus has dealt with tina, and it makes sense that whatever he gave is the reason her B&B is so interactive
the fact that dragon lord can talk to player directly without the rest of the characters hearing is also interesting dos the Newby have something to do with it or is it part of the supposed cursed item?
(this does NOT contain anything from wonderlands) okay so just saying but Gythian was so massive that about maybe five of it's tentacles could hold a city granted it's not big but it is still a city so how big would the Destroyer be to you cause I imagine that he's like azathoth from lovecraftian mythology where you could basically swim in one of their eyes
I'm surprised you didn't theorized that the cursed thing could be her book of characters considering you made the connection with Maya in Borderlands 3. Fun theory though!
Throughout the game I was wondering why the Dragon Lord has sentience, but the game never explained so I started doing my own research.I ended up here and I absolutely love this whole theory
You mentioned that Mancubus was in a "Lovecraftian" DLC but didn't even mention that Dry'l, and the entire part of the dried up ocean where the coiled reside, is full of literal bits of the language Lovecraft came up with for the Cthulhu mythos.
My insane tin foil theory.
The pyramid prop is actually a Eridian relic that was used to create the original sirens.
There's just one problem. Wonderlands is yet another "Pre-sequel" taking places between BL2 and BL3. Tina, and presumably majority of the BL2 cast are still on Pandora. My evidence is that Tina is still TINY Tina, and still 13 so if hasn't even been a year since Handsome Jack's Defeat so most of the Vault Hunters are still in Sanctuary before Hector destroys it. No one has left Pandora that we know of, so it could be instead that Izzy is actually Mancubus' B&B character that she found through the echo net, just like with Paladin Mike for Lorelei. It's why she runs a lodge esque pub, her demeanor where everything she says seems to have multiple meanings, the fact that just like Mancubus she constantly overstates how much you should stay in her shop.
She's not thirteen her hair and height is longer and taller than her number two self. It's not as long as three so we think she's 14 maybe 15 as tina is 17 or older in number 3.
I'm really stupid, it just hit me that Dryl looks a lot like Krieg *facepalm*
I loved BL3 love and tentacles, as well as the creepy but awfully helpful Mancubus. I hope we see him more in the future while diving more into the supernatural side of Borderlands
Checks out! I love these lore videos you do, great channel ✌🏼
I'm good as long as Will Arnett comes back for later BL titles
Be careful.
Tiny Tina might steal this one too!
Thanks for your videos
Some of the Graveborn's armor also references Gythian. While potentially just a Borderlands wink wink nudge nudge thing, it could help add to this connection.
also I'd say the Sword of Souls is a pretty good canidate for the "cursed" item that you speak of
I’d say that could be correct because of the laser beam at the end
It will be a bit strange, funny, and badass if this leads to future borderlands having our played character to actually be our own custom created character using powers and abilities from past Vault Hunters/Fate walkers and future Vault Hunters/Fate walkers. All of this happening because Tiny choose to ignore the signs there was something wrong with her game and she may have reached out into reality to drag the Player (aka us) into the Reality of Borderlands.
Cool idea, but I'd see it much more likely as the fatemaker being an enemy in a future BL game controlled by Mancubus after his plans with Wonderlands have come to fruition.
Love these videos man
It’s all about Tina’s mind space. You’re the only one perceiving the game the way you do, meaning that you’re the only one seeing past the illusions to see the truth in order to truly help tina heal and grow.
Well my first thought that I'm surprised wasn't ruled out (I don't think) was that Izzy could be a daughter/relative to Mancubus. Not that that's particularly satisfactory of an answer but Borderlands has been known to draw plenty of familial connections like that before.
but izzy is in a fictional BnB game while Mancubus is actually in the Borderlands worldspace
@@MicroMakesMusic the first BnB dlc for borderlands 2 had fictional representations of all the main game's characters as well (including the 4 protagonists, supporting characters, and antagonist). I would imagine doing the same in this game isn't out of the question
don't forget, izzy also gains sentience after the campaign when she shows you how to multiclass. doubt it but it'd be a twist if this is how more Vault hunters are made for the war. or more likely if there's a point we revisit wonderlands like going into tinas mind similar to claptastic voyage
Glitch weapons will always be the best... That's why in BL3 there are a few weapons with random bonuses at reload...
@@victoriaabrilvazquez9863 I totally forgot about glitch weapons. Mate they should have made more DLC cause farming those glitches was like farming hybrids in 1. It was just so rare and the guns were so damn cool
Don’t forget about Izzy’s strange rant at the end of the game when she tells you about changing multi class. where she straight up acknowledges the world outside of the B&B game. Player character just goes, “Uh… Ok then.” Then proceeds like nothing has happened.
Perhaps the item was a cursed dice they use to play the game, which is actively allowing tinas imagination to create physical things
She said to use our imagination,lol so the cursed dive or whatever was cursed allowed us to go into the mind of tina's wonderlands world ect
Dice
I like to think that Mancubus might’ve used Tiny Tina’s imagination, creativity, and her half crazy mind to solve a problem of his that his studious brain couldn’t figure out, hence why she gets some sort of relic that creates sentience out of imagination.
If the idea of physically bringing back Maya through Krieg’s mind was given then this isn’t even that far fetched.
Also a good note, In the side mission to "The Trial of Crooked-Eye Phil", She says "My babies have a life of their own". This is said after the NPC says something and Tina responds that it was rude to say that.
Wow! Very cool theory. Makes me consider actually buying the game.
You are welcome to... enjoy the Lodge. Seriously, Mancubus Bloodtooth is hilarious. I hope that you will be... comfortable.
I just imagined Tina just thought up a name and got bloodtooth since her time fighting bandits and psychos and such
This couldn't have taken place after BL2. When Tina is introduced in BL2 she's 13 but in this game she's 12. That's why the only recognisable person in this title is Brick.
Learning explosive knowledge from Mancubus doesn't make any sense. When Brick first met Tina, she rode into combat on his shoulders throwing explosives. In BL1 Brick is proficient in the use of explosives (RPG's).
Seems more likely she just made up the name or got it from online (like Paladin Mike). Edit: Paladin Mike is definitely a link to the outside being as it's clearly Lorelei's Bunkers and Badass' character.
BTW. After completing the marble collection quest: If you return to the Amnesiac, she just asks you to find marbles. Am I missing something or is there more content pending?
Dryl could be lovecraftian but could also just be this games vault monster
Sooooo. . . Yesterday I found a Graveborn armor named Gythian's Tongue. I stopped and was like, wasn't Gythian the bad guy in Guns, Love, and Tentacles? I figured it was a cute nod for the Graveborn, but that is 2 references to that DLC.
THERES A ELDRITCH SOMEWHERE?….sorry, I kinda got a little hyped up.
Dryll is a void god?, WAIT, he’s similar to me?
In the french version they make a difference. It's Mancubus Carnassier and Issy Soifdesang. I hope they didn't screw at the translation teams. Nice theory by the way.
at 4:48 my thoughts diverged from yours for a bit
'what I think she got'
was his daughter.
I certainly wouldnt put it past this man to bind his offspring to Tina's magical realm in exchange for something he desired.
If anything I think Tina would decline to be given a sentient human being. As cool of an addition to her BnB game it might have been.
So maybe its more of a 'Mr Mancubus, can Lizzie come out to play?' -type situation where his daughter was already tragically bound to an artifact and the trade with Tina at least gave Lizzie a more interesting and populated world to inhabit than before.
Fun fact: voice actor for Mancubus is the same as the voice actor for the Demi-Lich the Graveborn class has. Super fun xD
This is an interesting theory, and a really cool one at that, but to be honest, I think you're giving the writers too much credit here; I think the Bloodtooth thing was purely a coincidence at best, or them forgetting their own timeline at worst. Ever since the Pre-Sequel, Borderlands games' stories are basically train-wreck after train-wreck, and unfortunately this is an issue that plagues Wonderlands too, being made into a Tabletop game within the Borderlands universe, rather than its own universe that serves as a fantasy alternative thereof (similar to Warhammer 40k being the sci-fi/science-fantasy version of Warhammer).
Truth is, in Wonderlands there is barely a story to speak of. The story of the game is pretty shallow and simple, there's not really much going on, and indeed the only real thing of interest in the plot is the Dragon Lord's apparent sentience. Really, I think the writers just sort of phoned it in and simply strung together a few random ideas with no rhyme or reason.
Spoilers in this question!! Question I have is, the nightmare... So dragon lord goes off script and kills the queen right? Tina is confused and try's to bring things back in to line and eventually you fight the nightmare. Question is ... How does the nightmare have a page in the book? Wonder if the book is the cursed/magic item.
When will all these tie-ins and talk of some massive war come to fruition? I hope gearbox just doesn't drop the ball and we get no answers. with all the story potential, BL3 just seemed like filler. I wonder if gearbox has like a "bible" like the way the devs did for the Halo story, or are they just making it up as they go, which never ends well. Looking at you Lost (the tv show).
Eridium my good man. you see it all over the Game board, in the environments. The Eridium that Tina used in crafting her world is warping it with its power. The crystals that Dragonlord is absorbing in the Dankwoods. Eridium. The crystals in his final battle that empower him. more eridium.
I just realized this is almost like Gravity Falls. Not only do both have a Fearamid, but Bill Cipher acts as a “muse” to Ford Pines giving him knowledge to build the portal in that universe. Of course Bill was just using him to slowly gain more control over the physical realm as the Dragon Lord does here
I have an idea of what is causing Wonderland residence to Gain sentience. The Chaos Chamber D20! (Or what I like to call, the chaos die) It’s possible that could be the cursed artifact. It lies in the castle brighthoof basement in the middle-ish of the world. It seems to have ultimate cosmic power that no NPC can interact with but players can. And it seems to be the most influenced by Tina‘s imagination. My theory is that the chaos die feeds off of imagination and converts it into power. But because Tina is an ADHD riddled dynamo, The chaos die absorbs so much imagination that it creates an entire world. Allowing its “generous food source” and all of its allies become gods of this world.
This game takes place prior to Rolands death in Borderlands 2. This is also imagination based from D&D through Tiny Tina. Manucubus has not been located yet and Jacobs hasnt even met Hammerlock. So Mancubus has zero to do with this game. Nothing in Borderlands and most of Borderlands 2 has anything to do with this game other than tina and her imagination. So it's not even conjecture, its just fanfiction at this point.
Maybe the dragon lord having control over the world and there being many fatemakers is elluding to "the war" that is foretold by the watcher. A powerful being with control over reality will be awoken and we will have to defeat it with as many vault hunters as we can get...
Doesn't Wonderlands take place before Borderlands 2? Roland is the narrator that advances the chapters and at the end of the Game before the Chaos Chamber gets unlocked, he comes to visit Tina and directly references the war he is fighting with Handsome Jack. It would make sense for a lonely person to fill her fantasy world with characters she reads from the echo logs and echo net broadcasts. She never met Lorelai, but uses their OC Paladin Mike. She never met Mr Torgue until his Campaign of Carnage, but she must have heard all of his commercials and wanted to include him in her game. Mr Torgue doesn't act like he does in BL2 or Bl3.
This is a solid theory and one i have high hopes for. If this game patches well BL4 can be more than a fading possibility. Also, It is no secret Mancubus was set up specifically to potentially be a sort of universal connector/building unit. Hes open ended. Imagine your builder unit in a RTS game that already has its own background info and bit of story written to transition into any plot. No other character is written in such away in Borderlands. Hes powerful on a scale beyond even sirens just based on what we know. He exists in a DLC kinda because its where hes parked lol The villain dint want none when she encounters him, theres several logs adding to his range as far as timeline and distance within the universe. And best of all even though he aids and shelters the player in a dlc story we cant say if hes a good or bad guy... Maybe... Hes a god. One of several. The one that likes to be more hands on like a mix between Q from star trek TNG and Raiden from Mortal Kombat and throw in some Loki lol
I think it's super awesome that you've put this much thought into it, and I think it's super lame that you have undoubtedly put way more thought into it than Gearbox has, because I guarantee you that they will not do something as clever or as radical as this.
It’s less convoluted. Mancubus wanted the location of Maya. Done.
Ok so The side quest where you help One eyed Phil, near the end tina says what’s character says was rude, Valentine says “He’s your character”, tine follows with…get this, “What can I say, my babies have a mind of their own.” I know it’s not a confirmation but like food for though
I was wondering this as well. In the Chaos Chamber if you get lucky and get a run where you solve all 3 rune puzzles to face the 3 raid bosses, Tina is fought after you beat the initial three and she's called The Maker. However, she has a much more darker tone about her and seems throughout the boss fights to be actively encouraging her creations to kill you for even finding the areas where her raid bosses reside.
I just don't like Izzy, I think the character models face looks really nice but, the body looks like some one slapped a MS paint skin on a TF2 character body and called it a day.
Eh, for me the whole point is that even when dragon lord is self aware, it's all still part of her script, the whole story is nothing
I don't think it's the Fearamid. The obvious answer is the book. He literally collects books. But if he needed something from Tina that wasn't a book, maybe giving up a book was the solution. There's a few things to consider. First, Dragonlord isn't the only one developing sentience. Izzy herself brings this up and she's no where near the Fearamid. Second, why would the statue of Dryl affect the Dragonlord? Third, the Dragonlord started as a Bunkers and Badasses character. Her first character, I don't remember if he says he has actual memories of the campaign or just remembers being her character. Presumedly she wouldn't have had the Fearamid at the time in order to run her own games, but she could have had a blank book. Perhaps at the time it wasn't even for BnB. It could have been a blank book that he trades her telling her whatever she writes in it will blah blah blah, tina doesn't listen. So she writes her character sheet in the book. But by the end of her first game he's turned evil. Something that greatly affects her. A character would have more will than an NPC. But she takes that info and updates her book to make him the big baddy.
So timeline would be, she gets a book from him. Forgets about it. Plays BnB for the first time and needs something to write her character sheet. Grabs that book and uses it. By the end he's turned evil so she updates the book to make him the bbeg. Using him, and presumedly Izzy, who has a lot more interactions with the players and get's developed further they gain sentience.
This game feels like such a waste of potential to me.
I just don't understand why it's a prequel to Borderlands 3. It would have been funnier to have a grown Tina. To have the borderlands 3 vault hunters interacting with each others during the game, instead of Frette and Valentine, would have been so cool to develop their relationships and define the dynamics between them...
And the endgame just does not appeal to me at all
Fans: Makes sense to me
Eruption: So it's canon?
Gearbox: *ignores all plot threads entirely