1966 GTO 389 on the DYNO - Pontiac Points Problems
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- Опубликовано: 25 июл 2021
- Nick's Garage Gear Shop
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Some people call the GTO the first true American muscle car. Nick has had love for ALL muscle cars since he first laid eyes on one, and today, he will be firing the 389 from a 66 GTO on his dyno. But it isn't all sunshine and roses in the dyno room. PLUS it's time to say goodbye to the A12 Roadrunner.
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Авто/Мото
On the Edelbrock Carb the choke is fully open. It seems slightly cloesed on video.
We have a new camera bracket on the way. It should help us line the lens up directly over the carb, so that we don't have this issue in the future.
Is it an edelbrock carburetor or is it the original Carter AFB? Some reason I thought it was the original AFB.
Lol just got the the edelbrock part never mind 🤣🤙
@@LunarOutlawsGarage it is the original carter afb there is a air bypass screw between the two idle mixture screws
Ya know there is such thing as a Carter quadrajet …was wondering if this was one
Car arrived safe and sound Nick! I have to thank Harry and Thorsons Enclosed Vehicle Transport for getting the Roadrunner home safely.
Fantastic!
Lucky SOB!! 🙂
Beautiful car have fun
Enjoy & drive it like you stole it 👍
Cheers
Louis 👍
enough $$$$ and the proper shipper will be careful as heck-all. also luck of nature, as it can ruin the best things in an instant!
I really enjoyed watching this video, the old 389 acting cranky for Nick. I've worked on a few GTO's over the years, and sometimes they have done the same to me. It was a pleasure watching Nick sort out the issues, and finally get the engine running smoothly, and making some decent HP, with a basically stock setup. Back in the day I used to carry some matchbooks around with me, and also a nail file, that I could use in an emergency to gap, and file my points. The matchbook cover was about .017 which would put me in the ballpark on the dwell setting until I could put in a new set of points, and set the dwell with my meter. That little trick saved quite a few times when the points would fail, and leave you on the side of the road. George, this video was simply amazing, the music, production, and editing were all first class! I have watched a lot of videos on RUclips, and nobody even come close to the quality of the videos on Nick's Garage
I had three got.did like you did with a match box and a nail file worked pretty good one of them had a dual points what a night mare worked when you could get them set thanks for your comment
.17 works on 6 cylinder motors not on gm v8s ......28-32
Yep! I too put many a set of points in the old goats. I made a lot of money tuning new goats for my buddies as work who ran them hard. My old 390 Mercury Cyclone would do circles around the old goats. They were good cars though and we all have a spot for them in our hearts. Thanks, Nick for bringing back old memories.
PS the first Electronic ignitions didn't work well either. They got hot and you were walking. Used to tell my customers to pour water on the brain box and if they had none just pee on the dam thing. 9 outa of 10 times it got them in without a wrecker.
Lost count of the number of points I gaped with a match book and my bet is Nick has done the same. I had a friend back in the day that had a Bonneville 2+2 that would pull the wheels off the ground in second with a 389.
I would have thought with all the old iron you work on, you'd have a distributor machine. I loved those things back in the day. Mark your rotor, pull the complete distributor out and tune the dwell on the stand, then spin it up on the machine and see if the arrows hold steady throughout the RPM range. If the arrows started jumping around you knew you'd get a misfire in the car, so whatever it was needed to be fixed on the stand.
I had almost forgotten about these machines. When electronic distributor components came around, I always went with the high tech methods and installed the point eliminator kits and then later I would buy the whole distributor.
The 1966 GTO 389 was nice street engine.They respond well to ignition timing mods(Royal Bobcats distributor weights with lighten springs for quicker advancing of timing). Factory compression ratios were 10.75 to 1. Pontiacs always ran hot ! I had a 1966 GTO 4 speed and enjoyed it !
What was the problem with the ignition the protronicks points elements points!
I had a 66 GTO 389 posi traction rear end Hurst four-speed shifter beautiful looking car nice lines for its day always ran hot always had a problem with the ignition ! Points what a crap invention that was today's a new day new technology get rid of the points !!! Go have some fun ! Hey GOAT hold it !! 😂
They were a great street engine due to the low revving torque they developed.
I remember monkeying around with points just like that, only the engine was IN THE CAR. Now THAT was a pain in the😡😡😡.
Aahhh, to be young again...
Depends on where the distributor was ,
The nice thing about GM cars was that you could adjust the points with the engine running. Just roughly set them and connect a dwell meter and adjust them.
With the GM window distributors it wasn’t too bad if you had a dwell meter. Open the window, put an Allen wrench in the bolt on the points base, and adjust the dwell.
@@CrazyPetez That's it. Sure beat the crap out of trying to get them set right with a feeler gauge. Dwell meters weren't too expensive in those days. I think every shade tree mechanic had one. I had an Allen wrench that was on a spring with a screwdriver type handle.
@@williamjones4483 I never used a feeler gauge, teacher in voc. tech. school showed us how you could use a matchbook cover to gap the points. With the added advantage of cleaning any contaminant oil like you find on feeler gauges off the contacts!
Nick, love everything you do on your channel !!!!!! Not many Old School Guys like you around . I'm an ol Tin Indian Fan ,and love watching the ol Pontiac come to life.....I'm an ol 1970 GTO owner in my younger days ....brings back alots of memories.....Keep' em Running Nick ...God Bless You....
I never had good luck with unitized points back in the day. Separate condenser seemed more reliable.
Uni points belong in the trash. You can't use a feeler gauge with them. He had a brand new set of blue point points with a separate condenser. Should have looked for a screw to hold the condenser and been done with it.
Good morning Nick , good ole points , people ask me if I remember using a dwell meter and I just smile and say it's been awhile .
Since i work on all year models I still keep the knowledge lol on the older setups.
Using the petronix point replacement is great , I have used them on an old Farmall tractor.
Thank you for working as hard as you do to bring us such a great video.
Take care and keep a thrashing . 👍
Great video. This is exactly how I observed my Dad working in the garage on problems, with a positive attitude and a healthy mixture of fear and aggression. This is what it is all about: the journey!
10.25 is the perfect compression for these Pontiac engines with a good MSD ignition and the right combustion chamber set up you’ll get good power
Yea man. 10 seems about right for the 389 and awesome for the days. Compared to some 8.something of the sloggers
Nice. I own a 1969 Pontiac GP 455 Stroker (RHD) DownnUnder in Western Australia and DIG the hell out of it. Thanks for sharing your passion and workplace. A good setup you got there. Cool.
I had a “65” GTO Convertible 4 speed, I loved,it was taken from me by a drunk driver who slammed into me as I waited at a railroad crossing for a train to pass. Your video brings back a lot of memory’s I had with my then girlfriend now my wife of 44 years! Wish I still had that car! To your testing, it sounds like your starter needs to be shimmed a bit,it’s binding on the flex plate/ flywheel.
I was ready to throw a wrench in your honor Nick. It actually helps me when you encounter a PITA job. But you never give up! As I said last week…”One week closer to vacation!” Hope you all have a good week.
Fling a 15/16 like in Ford vs Ferrari
Nick I used to race the four barrel GTO's with my 66 Cyclone GT 390 and I had no problem beating them in the 1/4mile. I think they only had bout 315 hp. My Cyclone had a 4 speed in it. The tri-power GTO's could beat me but they had 360 hp.
This was a really great episode Nick.
Because there are days like those.
When I was a kid they had a Sun distributor machine. Points float-
I love Petronics- problem solved
First Car was a 61 Pontiac Bonneville. 2nd Car New 1964 GTO Convertible Yellow. 389 360 HP 4spd with Trips. 3rd Car was New 1965 GTO Red 4sp with Trips. Brother bought a 1970 Blue GTO Judge, 4spd 400 HP I believe, All 389 Engines. Every couple of Months, Points, Plugs, Condenser and playing with the carburetor. Burn a tank of gas Friday Night; Saturday Night and fill up for work the other 5 days. Gas was 17.9 to 24.9 cents a gallon in Detroit, normally using Shell 95 Octane or Sunoco 260. Lots of Memories but we drove the cars in those days. Always working on our cars.
That Pontiac blue is one the prettiest engine colors ever used. Therir 75-77 metallic blue is really nice looking too, the heavy metallic really pops with all the angle on an engine.
Good morning Nick, oh yeah some Pontiac power on the dyno.
Morning! Thanks for joining us.
I had a 66 GTO with a 389 4 in the floor when I was 17 that was in 1972. It was gold and had white bucket seats and black carpet and I absolutely loved that car. Hey Nick I forgot to tell you that I bought a 65 Dodge Dart GT and I’m very excited to have an A body. I can’t wait to get it running and driving since it’s been sitting in a garage the last 15 years.
You are the best.. You take time to explain thing simply and mail room is great to.. Keep up the great work by do
Why not replace the mechanical points with a Hall effect replacement. Can’t see them so it will not matter. Will be dependable.
Thanks for keeping it real, by showing how frustrating things can get.
I own a 66 tempest.
Bought when I was 19. I'm 54 now..still love it..still drive it..
Has a 406 CI ..400 out i
Of a 76 grand Prix freshened up block...th 400 trans. Runs 12 s
On motor..set up for spray..
Stock bottom end forged pistons. I built the motor over 18 year's ago..street raced track raced .. sprayed..a bunch
210 shot...👍👍👍
I've watched everyone of Nicks videos and have never seen him so frustrated! Gives a guy flashback to the bad old points days! Uncle Tony can keep them as far as I'm concerned. Back in the day the first thing I would do to a GM engine was install an HEI distributor and be loving life!!
Points back in the day were all over the board in quality. Probably what is left over are the junk and there was a lot of junk. People with doing dual points were like Wizards LOL! . Actually you set the gap and dwell half of the singles. I had a Mallory in a BBC and it worked great. Mallory's were very good quality distributors.
I was in heaven when the opti spark came out. Put that right in my 1970 Challenger 440 SIXPACK. Right in the stock distributer!
Oh! The one piece point condenser. Back about 1974 I had a neighbor who did a tune up on his car and for a week I noticed has car hadn't moved so I ask him what was up with the car? He told me about the tune up he did so I took a look and seen the new one piece points condenser. I had run into this problem in the passed so I asked him what he did with his old points. He came up with them and they were not one piece. Installed them and it fired right up. Lol. The one piece points set were all junk.
Just put a point/condenser set in my old nova. Once set runs fine. I've had new condenser fail out of the box. Electronic ignition is better until it fails. And that can happen at any moment. HEI recently failed on my cosworth. One minute it was working. Next minute it was not. Module failed. Keep a spare. It's the 3rd time it's done that.
The guy who rebuilds your carbs does a fantastic job, it looks like new and probably works like new too. It's called pride in your work and going the extra mile to be the best.
I work on vintage motorcycle carbs, some of the very worst ones I've done 'look' real nice but were corroded to hell internally requiring a lot of extra work. There really isn't a 'bolt on replacement like in automotive where bolt spacing has been stasndardised since 1950's
It basically involves a good kit and a tank of bears men's carb cleaner best carb cleaner for doing carburetors I've literally probably done over a thousand carburetors one of my favorite things to do sometimes building two or three in one day and building a a few motorcycle carbs and a couple of really old antique ones I love the day of carburetors points and plugs I used to make my own plug wires because I used the best high grade wire I can find the sheet when I used to tune up the Mazda rotary
This video is very important. Because it shows even the best can have headaces with even simple fixes.
I went to school with a girl who's father gave her a 67 Pontiac GTO, 389 Tri Power. That car still had the original paint. Beautiful Ride.
sorry no such car...1967 had a 400 and single 4 barrel only
'66 was the last year for the 389 and tri-power. I know, I had one new. '67 was a 400 with a four barrel as the only engine.
@@JamesSterling yeah, it probably was a 66. I remember this girl driving it up to where we were partying and it was just sweet. It was a 389 Tri Power, still had the original paint, had one tiny little dent on the passenger door. She got it for graduation gift from her parents but her dad was the original owner.
67 400. No 389 and tri power
Another Monday morning and watching my favorite channel with Nick and crew! A great way to rev up my MoPar brain!
Right on! Thanks for joining us, Bill.
Surprised it didn't have the trip power on it it was the one I think was advertised at that? Been so long and I can't remember. I am surprised that Nick doesn't know, he is the walking encyclopedia of knowledge that he has forgotten more than most people know. God bless and keep on your mission Nick! You are a great treasure of my generation.
In the mid 70's I had a 66 GTO but went with an Accel ignition, Crower 3/4 cam, .060 TRW pistons, Hooker Headers and a 4:11 posi with a 2:20 Muncie 4 speed. Best time on Goodyear F70-14 was 13.90s close to 110.
Love your channel.
You seriously needed more tire! 11.80 on DOT slicks I would estimate.
@@lcee6592 I have no doubt about slicks. Thanks!
Had the same experience with the points in my 68 firebird 350, swapped it out for a HEI unit, night and day difference
I had a '67 GTO.....400 with a Q-Jet and Turbo 400 Trans. Hurst Dual Gate shifter. It was pretty fast. Had many options....A/C power everything and front disc brakes. I can only wish I had it today. Sold it for about $1000 back in the early 1970's.......!!!! Today that car could be worth 50K or more I think ! One reason I sold it was it had a bad oil leak from the rope seal. I pulled the engine and replaced the seal and the cam and lifters. Had many little problems with the car that made me want to sell it. Like I said I wish I had it today and I'd fix whatever problems it had...P.S. there is a neoprene seal available for them to get away from the rope I believe.....
Yes sir it did and a good friend of mine had one in a manual. He took the 389 out kept it and he put a built 400 in it. He passed away from bladder cancer and she sold of his collection of stuff and I don't know what the Son got if anything. God bless you all and have a great day tomorrow.
all my years of being a mechanic nick its so hard to do is just walk away come back the next day i have spent hours working on something that's or should be really simple walk away go back the next morning and fix it in 5 minutes i remember old timers telling me many times to do that i have learned it works for me unbelievable done it many times i think we get so aggravated it gets to the mind. just walk away go back the next day
Nothing better than to hear the sound of a V8
Reminds me of the 326 of my brothers 67 firebird.His brother in law Steve Bachman rebuilt it back in 83 and let me help on assembly.That was my first time understanding how they worked.Made me a mechanic.Steve was a well known street racer back in the day around Sterling park in Virginia.Hes a mentor to me.
Hey Nick where the same age I was born in 56 when I was always stationed at Camp Pendleton I bought mine platoon sergeant 72 Pontiac formula 400 the motor blew a few months later went to the Salvage yard picked up a 389 bought it out 40 over for a cool radiator Edelbrock intake carburetor what is screamer this car was an idle the fenders would rock back-and-forth nobody wanted to race me even the Corvettes when I was down in Vista California Friday nights all the Hot Rodder‘s would show up drove it all the way back to Rhode Island when I get out of the Marine Corps this brought back some memories thank you
First thing I did when I inherited my Grandma's 1968 Lemans with only 27,000 miles in 1993, electronic ignition.
Lord,I love that Road Runner! Beautiful!
I thought when your flashlight didn't want to come on that you were fixing to beat the hell out of it!
Nick has great patience. But not for bad tools.
This motor Pontiac 389 was a masterpiece! The brand that not around anymore. 😕 What a shame! Great video old timer. 👌
Imagine your a set of points sitting in your wee poly bag all this time then one day you get opened an shoved into a problem GTO 389 , by Nick ..an then an Advert comes on for a electric charged paving Slab , then Nick prevails ..Nice seein you again Nick , had some issues ..but glad to see you keeping it real ..
Nick please remember even when you replace points with new ones you have to thoroughly clean the contacts with lint-free paper and lacquer thinners
Which he didn't do along with gapping them with a feeler gauge. I thought this guy knew what he was doing apparently not.
@@ActivityPhoto , Nick has probably forgotten more than you ever knew.
my 65 gto had 2 1/4 inch exhaust manifolds from the factory Nick.
The exhaust manifolds on this engine are Ram Air manifolds from 1969-70.
I love this show,I'm allways impressed .
Thank you!
That brought me some good memories use to have a 1966 GTO till this day I still miss it thanks
Distributor machines are nice to set them up and make sure they are perfect before going on the engine. I've never had a problem with points ignition. Most of the time a new set of Blue Point points are correctly set right out of the box.
I'm with you here, This GM Delco ignition isnt old school to me, that carburetor is old school. Should be TBI at the minimum everywhere. Every shade tree around here is running Edlebrock out of the box dead rich at light throttle cruise, its a shame and it stinks too. Another problem is guys running incorrect voltage to points or incorrect voltage to HEI. You don't want that resistance wire on an HEI or non-points unit. Conversely, you don't want START POSITION full voltage at the RUN position on a points car. Very basic stuff. - Sandy - the aging car mechanic
@@sandyshoremann7524 Go get a tan.
Watching you guys it's like watching a young nick working with the real nick. Nice work leo
Got a Couple of the OLD MOTOR Manuals , Still Love them !
JC. They are full of good info.
Nick, back in the early 1970's here in the UK I worked at a Ford main dealer and at that time we only had points to work with on 99% of cars that came into the shop for tuning. Some distributors even had dual points.
I used to do all the electronic engine tuning using a Sun Tester 1120 machine (a ground breaking piece of kit in those days).
Common problems with new sets of points were: (A) Caused by not wiping the anti corrosion oil film off the contact faces. (B) Having a poor earth on the distributor base plate (the points screw down directly onto the base plate) which would cause a voltage drop. (C) Poorly aligned contact faces - more common than you think. (D) Lack of grease on the distributor cam lobes causing the points heel to wear away thus closing the points gap. (E) Excessive distributor shaft side play causing the points gap to alter or scatter as we called it as the engine climbed the rev range. (F) Incorrect points dwell angle which can effect (lower) the coil output KV and finally, condenser failure. This can cause arcing/burning across the points face or even a non start situation.
Properly installed and gapped (dwelled) points were usually good for at least 6000 miles!
P.S. I would pay a tidy some for a half decent 1120 machine to use on my classics! Great channel. DP
So enjoyed seeing you having issues with points. In my racing days 64-68 I fought them as well. Did my heart good to see you having some issues. BTW, this is Nick.
Good evening Nick and George from Melbourne, Australia :)
Hello there! Thank you for being with us.
Nick i dont own a v8 muscle car, im a vw guy, but i do appreciate your videos. I love old musclecars. Keep up the good work.
350HP NICK, 66 GTO WAS A FAVORITE OF MINE ,the year I graduated high school!
I struggled with the points on my 68 Firebird when I first got it. After it shocked the snot out of me when I wad adjusting the dwell, I went to HEI and never went back. Loved my Pontiac. Very torquey.😁🇺🇸. Thanks for the memories.
I bet the condenser on the new points is junk if you took the condenser off the old points and put it on the new ones it will work. There have been many new condensers that are junk and I bet that is what is going on with the ones your using
New parts is no gaurantee they are good parts!
Yep. Lots of points sold these days that are junk right out of the box.
Had bad condenser right of the box before
points and condenser (non-polarized electrolytic capacitor) are likely both junk. not enough sales volume for it to be made worth a hill of beans, let alone one bean (how's that for old saying) ;)
Newer VOMs can read capacitance!
Some days you get the bear Nick....BUT TODAY THE BEAR GOT YOU!!!! Sure new starter will fix it :)
That's the way... a very clean mechanic.
In 1977, I was swapping in a TRI power 389 for the original 326.
I REALLY wanted a 67'
GTO but they were expensive.
( Price one now!)
But I got a good deal on a Pontiac, 67' LeMans 2dr.
It was a bit rough, but the red paint and the black top
( From a certain distance and the right angle)
It looked kinda like a GTO.
I started out on the body right away, tore off that ugly black top and the right rear quarter had some dents in it, so I pounded out the dents and started sanding out the top.
The trunk lid and it's hood were left at my home garage, the TRI power 389 was in my trunk, and I was there early waiting for the guy that "knew" Pontiacs.
I was starting to remove the stuff under the hood and this short guy approached me.
"You gonna throw out that 326" he asked?
I just said "yup" struggling with the exhaust manifold to muffler connection.
He walked around the car.
Noticed the quarter and roof in primer with the sanded off spray paint.
He asked me to get out from under the car. Now I was 6'2", this guy barely came up to my shoulder, I didn't want to scare him so I kept my distance.
"You did the top and quarter?"
Yes, I did I said.
"And you wanna swap the 389 for the 326?"
Yes, I certainly do Sir
I said.
I think it was the "Sir" that got him.
"You got a job?"
Umm
No Sir.
Fresh outa school.
Well he said
"I tell ya what, I'll pull out the 326 and keep it for my "Collection" put the 389 in if you want to work for me, we can give you a hand with that body work, nice job on the roof and quarter,
I'm Pete".
As In
"Pontiac Pete" that was buddies with the
Legendary
Micky Thompson.
I was stunned!
Micky was the reason I chose Pontiac in the first place, my Dad wanted me to try Chysler.
(And work for the City, but that's another story)
Really? You need you'll give me a job right out of school? I said.
Another guy showed up, he was one of his ..
"Drag the LeMans into the "engine" shop, I'm going round the
"body" side, I didn't even know it was two shops.
You ah...
Like body work?
Yes Sir, I think it's ok.
Ok good, I want you to
CLEAN up this shop, ok?
Yes Sir...
And quit calling me Sir,
Pete will do.
I'm Tom, I'll get right on it.
The shop was a nightmare.
Over spray all over everything, Bondo dust a 1/2" thick on the floor.
The tools were filthy, and his frame straightening rack wasn't even working.
Oh, wait a minute he said.
"This guy is Tom, he works with us now, he's gonna clean this shop up... Help him....OK?
From that moment on I had a profesion.
I went on from there.
44 years later a
389 on your dyno reminded me of that day.
Thank you Nick, it's just a RUclips spot but it bought me back.
Miss you Pete.
The way of the muscle car will never die.
T.
Tom. Nice story. And yes, I do bring back some old memories.
One of the best days of my life was when I switched to an electronic ignition. That was painful to watch.
as a teen/beyond, we played off-road and others with the electronic ignition replacements, which worked great most always. but my rust of them was and still is low. always carry a set of point/condenser and know how to install it mid wherever (road, track, woods, lake, ocean) your life may very well depend on having various tools and skills to use them.
most of which should be common sense or learned by watching elders and asking some questions, but at the same time stay back and don't annoy them(how I learned tons)
never stop learning and always pay attention to details!
@@throttlebottle5906 One of the best things to happen was CD ignition modules, and then adaptation of the HEI style distributors to most everything.
I had a 70roadrunner that I drove in high school in 90- 91. I got good at setting points, damn I hated those things. Noe I got me another 70roadrunner that's just starting to get rebuilt. Better be sure it's getting every modern amenity it can get
I was a fifth generation high plains country boy who grew up with a dwell meter and a set of straight leaf feeler gauges. I raced Pontiac 389, 400, and 455 motors in a mid-sixties Catalina on 3/8 dirt circle track strictly stock absolutely with Wesleyan ingenuity, honesty, and integrity. I used Reagan era American made parts and tools. I don't recall my cars never starting or not running exceptionally better than my competition.
Waiting for this clown show to end was absolute torture. However, my guess is that this production is a metaphor for never ending NAFTA failures This production reveals a poignant end to dominant American performance exceptionalism. Thank you Nick Panaritis. You have confirmed my understanding that past American made products and their constituencies were once significantly greater performers.
Great build nothing wrong with that engine. plenty o power💪
My family’s first car was a Pontiac Catalina, 1967 model year. It included new technologies like disc brakes and electronic ignition. My mother said the ignition failed on a trip when the car was new, and stranded them while the Pontiac dealer located a replacement ignition module.
The first fifteen minutes are like watching a first-time new mother with her infant: every burp, cry or fart is attended to. This guy knows motors.
Thx Nick for bringing back the memories of my '66 Goat from back in the dsy. Keep the oldies rolling.
Nick i know you know this trick, use a small piece of a manilla folder to gap your points it's perfect to get you running! Then you can adjust, i was really suprised that you did not go that route, your old school and i just know that you know these old tricks, by the way love your show, my passion is the 65-70 impala fat blocks, keep up the fine work, oh your Kowalski is the legend lives, go nick!.
Gotta love them ol Ponchos!!
Please Nick, gotta get one of those in a 6bbl on the dyno. I know it's been done before, but your camera work is superb!!
My 389 was the best engine I ever had. My brother's 65 GTO was the same. Start 1st time, never smoked and ran perfectly.
you could get & build another one.
@@corporalclegg914 I wish!! I need a car to put it in.
@@Mike383HK my father has a 69 or a 70 gto hahah he has a 389 in it as well
@@vinjank - I hear ya, Mike. I hope you get your hands on an old Pontiac motor & relive your 389 days…they’re equal to what Ponce de León was seeking. my dad has a few basket 389s that need building, plus a tri-power 389 in a Red ‘64 GTO 4-speed & a built 455HO waiting it’s turn in a Gold ‘64 GTO. I plan to build both 389s, even if they sit on stands for a bit. I’m over 40 & dad’s over 70, but we’re freaking middle-school boys when we beat old Pontiac 4-speeds.
I’m interested in finding a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited (4-door 4WD) without an engine & augmenting it with a 389. that may be sacrilegious to some, but not to me. I’d be proud to pull that off. I’d carb it first, then consider an EFI kit. I put in a Holley Sniper on an AMC 304 in a CJ7 4-speed & it’s amazing. good luck…I hope something falls in your lap in a deal too sweet to turn down.
I really liked the 1966 GTO, my Aunt had a 1965, another one I liked
Heat kills electronics, I had a 65 pontiac bonnivlle and loaned out to a friend to tow his car, he overheated the motor so bad the spark plug wire melted on the plugs. I changed oil and plugs, replace radiator and engine ran like it never happened, great motor.
Reminds of the days at Dragway 42 watching the GM guys fooling with their ignitions at the track😂😂😂
I don't remember any of the non-GM motors having the window on the distributor cap for quick adjustments. The GM guys took advantage of this feature to tweak the dwell angle.
I've always liked the 66-67 GTO and the other similar GMs with that same body style along with Pontiacs engine color and factory dress up kit,it's pretty sharp imo. Perseverance Panaritis at it once again and as usual it truly pays off in the long run! Great job guys,thank you again.
Good afternoon folks. I really loved my 66 gto. It had a 74 400 2bbl from a Catalina when I bought it. I put 455 heads on it and a nasty cam, boy did that old goat go.... I haven't read all the comments, but am I the only one that noticed the exhaust manifolds on that beautiful beast? They didn't make too many of that style.
Those are good motors you have a good shop keep up the great work Nick
Thanks 👍
I've always thought they were more than 335hp factory,I remember my chevy 2 getting its doors blew off by one back in the day.
Tri power with ram air cam and manifolds 360 hp👍
Nick, Pontiacs are notorious for being under cammed by most builders. Raising the compression and keeping the cam that tame builds way too much cylinder pressure, aka: heat. Also the reason they eat starters, and you get the hard start issue. They don't have the best for cooling, as there are modifications i do that help a lot in these situations.
Those exhaust manifolds are actually a Ram Air 3, 4 into 1 manifold. They are not standard stock exhaust manifolds. Hence the bigger collector. A stock exh. Manifold is 2.250". They also offer those "long branch" RA3 manifolds cnc ported. They work. Same style as the round port RA4. FYI, never offered on a 389. They are available aftermarket.
The best tool in a pinch for points? A matchbook. Will get you running every time.
Those stock Carter AFB carbs are tough to work with, but as a rated they are 500-550cfm. They do not actually flow that. In comparison, the Tri-power carbs are rated at 750cfm, from all three 2 barrels.
Nice job. Actually just got done with a supercharged 440 going in a 70 cuda. Up on my instagram.. and here you are doing a Pontiac, my personal choice of race engines.
@jrd_motorsports
The AFB was rated at 625 cfm on 1964 - 1966. The The 1964 & 1965 Tri Power (according to Rochester) flowed 814 cfm and the 1966 flowed 887 cfm. We ran the 1966 Tri Powers on 455ci. motors back in the early to mid 1970's for Street Racing. Worked very well with the RA IV camshaft and good 670 heads. This gave us around 12-1 compression. We always had to add some Av gas or race gas. The 670 heads (closed chamber) were the only Pontiac heads that liked a lot of timing. 42 - 44 degrees were what they liked. To keep them running somewhat cool. A 4 core radiator was a must, and nothing over 3.55's in the back. The 4 field starter is what we always used on these. Rarely a problem with them. For points, we used Mallory 102X, and set them up on a Sun machine, set the dwell at 35-36. By the time you hit 6,000 rpm, the dwell was around 30. You could not run anymore dwell than that, otherwise it started to effect the idle. I did the same for big Blocks and small blocks when helping others. Setting them up this way allowed for very high rpm without float. The Firebirds had the longer runner exhaust cast iron headers. We used to open up the collector area on these cast iron headers for extra flow. Hard to believe, that was around 50 years ago.
I have had great luck with the Pertronix electronic conversion kits that replace the points and condenser in the factory point distributors and am using it in my 64 GTO with factory stock 389 internals and 65 "mechanical" Tri-Power intake manifold in front of the M22 "Rock Crusher" tranny torqing into a factory 4.10 10 bolt L.S.D. rear gear posi with adjustable traction bars... Love your videos and your laid back attitude!!
Thanks for this 1 hour 7 min film,, i was smiling
389hp would taker a bit of head porting and smoothing of intake transitions maybe a bit of David vizard type tweaking ,love video sweet build
I remember cruising in my buddy's father's 66 Goat when it was brand new with this same engine. It was an automatic with a "TempestTorque" 2 speed A/T (aka; Powerglide).
A white hardtop with gold roof and interior. I thought it was SOOO gorgeous
Pontiac never used a Powerglide in US models. The 1966 Pontiac 2 speed was a super turbine 300 which was an entirely different transmission.
Toss the points, my 69 gto had a dual point set up when i got it yrs ago. First thing was adding an hei then an msd ignition later.
The 1966 Pontiac GTO 389 cu in with a single carter 4 bbl. had a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Where as the 389 cu in with tri-power (3-2 bbl) had a 10.75:1 compression ratio. I had a 1966 GTO with 389 cu in, with (3-2bbl) 360 hp. I put 80,000 miles in 4 years on that car. I had a blast with my GTO.
Those are factory exhaust manifolds, but not for that engine. They appear to be Ram Air manifolds that came out a few years later.
They are 67 RA D PORT reproduction manifolds.
@@tylerstevenson4333 it seem you have the best reply.
@@tylerstevenson4333 we
@@tylerstevenson4333 Also used on the 400 HO starting in '67 which is the same spec engine used in later RA III's.
You did a great job on the A-12 car she's a beauty you looked good drivjng that car like you were going to race somebody if you had to lol!
*NICK!*
Man, I hate engines with distributors in the back, always have.
Only thing I hate worse? Uni-points. I remember when those came out and we all
thought they were the coolest thing - until we started using them.
They never lasted as long as separate points and condenser, seems like.
Heck with 'em, electronic ignition every time!
Good old big block Mopar - distributor in the front, Ma's own electronic ignition and
you set it and forget it....
Oh well, Nick got the job done eventually and the lesson is he DIDN'T QUIT on it!
Enjoyed it as always, see you over on Patreon,
- Ed on the Ridge
Ahh this video brings back memories. Change points one time and everything goes so easy, next time nothing goes right.
I am 71 and had a few early 1964 - 1967 GTO's and the exhaust manifolds on this are out of a 1967 GTO. I ran all the oem type carburetor combinations, including the Rochester Q-Jet. The AFB was a 625 cfm version from what I could tell at the beginning. In the end it was a AVS type, which is a good version of these. They never came on Pontiacs though. The 66 Tri-Power gave the best performance when setup correctly. Unless I am missing something, the single points should work well with enough dwell. This engine barely saw 5,000 rpm, not 6 or 7,000 rpm. We had setups in SBC's going to 7,900 rpm. I am not impressed on what I saw here...
Dwell meters are very handy ,so are distributor machines !
Yeah you're probably right they are now not back then.
My father bought a 1969 Gto brand new for 2600 Dollars RIGHT FROM THE DEALER IN FORT KENT MAINE WHEN HE GOT OUT OF VIETNAM 400 SMALL BLOCK I BELIEVE, VERY NICE-MOTOR YOU HAVE THERE NICK DANG AWESOME
Wow love the Pontiac stuff takes me back to my child hood in the garage with my Dad and his Pontiacs which he still has
Good little lesson on the dewel. I'm 29 and never deal with with points much and when I did I converted it to electronic ignition for the fact I know nothing about points. Great effort nick, but I think you made the best choice for the customers reliably.
30 deg on dwell
Nick always keeps his Dyno Room Spartan.....
The dwell on the points is the key to getting the point distributor to work properly, 19.5 degrees gives the best response.
The starter concern was possibly from a repeated hot soaking condition Pontiac and heat was a big concern.The starter was so close to the exhaust that they would overheat and cause them to draw too high of a current through the stator windings when they got hot. The heat shield was very important on these things and none of the backyard wrenchers would put them back on. Brings me back to the 80's and early 90's and work at a Pontiac dealer as a tech. I had a 66 GTO and 3 other parts cars. . I never dynoed it but I had a 400 cu inch from a 1968, a Crane Cam with a Doug Nash Dual Quad manifold and 2 Carter AFB 425 CFM carbs. Headers, 2&1/2 exhaust, Muncie M20 trans and a 4:11 Detriot locker rear axle - a rat rod yeah, but man what fun that car was as a kid. Love seeing all the classics.😃
I changed several points on ny ford 390, couldn't afford electronic ignition back then, that was the good old days.
I believe I would put the 750 Holley on it because you just can't beat a holley
Thank you for your dedication to preserving these automotive musclecar power plants!
In the early 80's I sold auto parts, going town to town calling on all the shops, each shop had an igintion cabinet full of points, rotors, caps, condesors etc. As a salesman you would go through the cabinet take inventory and then tell the owner what he needed for stock. Most shops kept 5-10 sets of GM points, as these were most popular and needed to be changed the most, and the ones the tech struggled with. As a sales guys the money was in the igintion cabinet. Once electronics came in within a very short time this was all gone, as electronics were much better and needed less maintenance. Seeing Nick have issues with GM points doesn't surprise me at all