My solar company installs both of these systems, and the retail cost of PointGuard is about 10% higher than Powerwall, apples to apples. Where PointGuard really wins out is the flexibility of battery sizing. Instead of 13.5kwh chunks like Tesla offers, you can mix and match the 8.1kwh and 5.3kwh PointGuard modules to make any size battery you want. Our most popular sizes are 16.2kwh and 21.5kwh, two sizes that Tesla cannot really serve without undersizing or oversizing.
@@danieljohnson8245So quick question… assuming you max out the size to the 37.6Kwh capacity, are you able to use two batteries at that 37.6Kwh capacity to achieve a total of 75.2Kwh total?
@@BACcontrabass yep. In fact, you can connect 3 full stacks per Load Hub, for a total capacity of 112kWh and a continuous power output of 34.2kW! They are working on a software update to allow 5 stacks per Load Hub, too.
Great video Joe - The biggest thing I like about the stackables (regardless of brand) is if (when) it starts to have problems like maybe the batteries are having a problem you could just removed the failed section and keep going and buy a replacement section and not have to remove and replace the entire 250-300 lb unit.
@@Bowhunters6go8xz6x that’s a great consideration, and an area where the PointGuard design really shines. If one battery module fails, it will simply disconnect (internal contactor) and the remaining battery modules will continue working as normal until the bad modules can be serviced. Another cool benefit to this design is adding more modules in the future made of different battery chemistries. Because each module has its own DC-DC converter to step up to the 400VDC buss, the chemistry of each module doesn’t matter and they can be mix and matched. Also, the age of differing modules won’t matter either, because each module is isolated on the other side of a DC converter. So you can add a new module 10 years down the road without worrying about the aging mismatch. Super cool stuff from PointGuard- that’s why I removed the SolarEdge system from my house and replaced it with PointGuard!
In all the other stackables, the battery packs are connected in series. That means if 1 pack fails, the whole stack is not functioning. With PointGuard, only the failed pack stops functioning, the other battery packs in the stack or system keep working, because the packs are connected in parallel. There is a lot of tech behind being able to connect packs in parallel, and we are leading the market in this technology, i.e. DC optimization stage in each pack.
@@SonoCars it’s been excellent! It’s a flexible and powerful system, with far more innovations than the rest of this sector. The DC bidirectional ev charger is going to revolutionize the home solar game, just wait until you see it!
thanks for the information. What are your thoughts on EcoFlow and the balcony solar panels and battery back up? Bascially its a solar set up for apartments and condos. I would like to hear your thoughts on that and if its worth it for those scenario's. Thank you for your time and feed back!!!!
Me too. I'd also like to discuss how these integrate with an Enphase-based solar panel (AC-coupled). Some of us, "early adopters", committed to Enphase and we now want to add storage. We can go with the Enphase batteries but we would like to compare/contrast.
@@epelegrillopart that integration is very easy! We installed a PointGuard system for one client who needed additional solar panels on a detached building. To save him the money on trenching, we put those panels on Enphase microinverters and let them backfeed the existing subpanel feeder circuit. This works like a charm, and if the grid is out and the batteries are full, PointGuard uses frequency shifting to control the output of those AC coupled panels.
@@danieljohnson8245 Thanks. Given the adoption of microinverters until now, I wish the use case of "expand an existing solar installation with batteries" was better advertised by battery vendors. People like me may have NEM 2.0 plans but we are also sold on the concept of DERs ... and we are kind of tired of PG&E. We are looking for an excuse / justification to add storage and the Enphase batteries right now don't look that enticing, honestly.
@@epelegrillopart I agree wholeheartedly with that. I would say up until recently, Franklin was the best battery expansion option, but it leaves a lot to be desired with regard to the size of the solar array you can connect per Franklin battery. PointGuard really shines in this area. it’s cheaper to install than a similar size Franklin system, and it has a way higher power input tolerance per kilowatt hour of energy storage. Any given sized Enphase array is going to be happier connecting to a PointGuard Energy system then it would be to a similar sized Franklin system. The Franklin system can only charge at 5 kw continuous per battery unit, so not only is PointGuard a better match for a larger array, you also have infinitely more control over the exact size of your PointGuard battery thanks to the 5 kWh and 8 kWh battery module options.
There is no vehicle PointGuard system can power a house from at this time. It is a bad idea to purchase equipment based on capabilities said to be coming in the future - especially with no timeline or specific path to functionality.
They have tested it with many different vehicles and it works great, thanks to Sig Energy (parent company) having such a big presence in Europe and Asia already. The hardware is ready, they would only have to update the software as new vehicles get added. Software updates are becoming such a normal part of our industry, I'm not worried about this. PointGuard is going to be the first to market with a fully integrated V2X home energy system designed to work with a variety of vehicles, and it's also going to be much higher power than most other products in this space (12kw or 25kw depending on your home electrical.)
We will se a significant surge of V2X in 2025, including multiple chargers (Enphase/ClipperCreek, Wallbox, Emporia, etc..). Even Tesla will have to provide it to be competitive.
How much more efficient is the point guard system over tesla powerwall 3 from the homeowners perspective. “Efficient” for a solar installation conpany might mean something different for a honeowner. 11:38
I would have liked to see comparable storage levels. How much would two of the PointGuard 8 KW modules + top Module+ EV BiDirectional Module (16 kW total) cost compared to the Tesla Powerwall (13.5 kW)? I was all excited last year about a BiDirectional EVSE until I realized there weren't any vehicles that I wanted that also had the battery chemistry to withstand daily cycling of the EV battery.
Do we know whether the CT integration is at the DC or at the AC level? Most other EVs do it at DC but I read somewhere that CT is doing it at AC. The PointGuard bidirectional is DC
@@epelegrillopart You got me there. I don't know if it's DC or AC. Let's revisit that in the future. But as someone already pointed out point guard doesn't make its own vehicles nor have they teamed up with an auto maker, so what good is a feature that no one uses nor can they.
What if you need a bi-directional charger since you have an EV in conjunction with the Tesla power wall 3? I do understand that the Tesla power wall three will not work in conjunction with that. But is there some component, or product that you could buy to add to your system that would give that capability because after all, there is a lot of energy stored in your EV if needed. I’m in the process of installing a Tesla wall power three as back up but I do anticipate having an EV and using that as back up storage power is incredibly beneficial in a power down or blackout situation. That seems to be a downside or at least a con in the pros and cons of that unit. Please advise.
Tesla is working on a bi-directional EV charger as well. They already supported for Tesla cyber truck and they should be rolling it out for the entire fleet in the near future.
Why are these batteries always marketed as a 'backup' when the grid goes down. Surely 11.5kwh output is enough to replace the grid when the sun goes down for most people. The grid needs to be the backup for a battery solution to be financially viable for me anyway.
@@travishimself1973 that is exactly how this system operates in self-consumption mode. You set the minimum SOC of the batteries and the grid is not used unless the batteries reach that SOC. For homeowners using PointGuard, the grid is simply where you sell your surplus energy
Very favorably. My company installs both, and the PointGuard is cheaper and much more powerful - not to mention that it has a ton of features that Franklin doesn't have or charges for, such as load shedding and generator integration. 10 circuits of load shedding are included with PointGuard vs 3 from Franklin (and you have to buy the accessory.)
The meter collar is a nice feature, but not everyone can have it. There is also no generator integration with Tesla unless you install the Gateway, which is how Solar Surge were considering Tesla here in this video. Otherwise, you'd add a point for ease of install and remove an X factor point for no generator integration, so it's kind of a wash.
I skipped to the end once I saw you slinging their product. Comparing a single stack as one device isn't truthful. How many DC expansion modules can a PW3 take? Unsubbed for misleading info.You went out of your way to mislead people.
@@walkerdarin2003 I install both of these products, and I still can’t order DC expansion units from Tesla. Solar Surge are simply comparing available products here. Eventually the PW3 DC expansion units will become available, but that still won’t make them as easy to install as PointGuard thanks to the modular design.
We really need more specific data on the exact cost to know whether the extra features in the pointguard is worth it
My solar company installs both of these systems, and the retail cost of PointGuard is about 10% higher than Powerwall, apples to apples. Where PointGuard really wins out is the flexibility of battery sizing. Instead of 13.5kwh chunks like Tesla offers, you can mix and match the 8.1kwh and 5.3kwh PointGuard modules to make any size battery you want. Our most popular sizes are 16.2kwh and 21.5kwh, two sizes that Tesla cannot really serve without undersizing or oversizing.
@@danieljohnson8245 10% more is not bad. We need more installers in California!
@@danieljohnson8245So quick question… assuming you max out the size to the 37.6Kwh capacity, are you able to use two batteries at that 37.6Kwh capacity to achieve a total of 75.2Kwh total?
@@BACcontrabass yep. In fact, you can connect 3 full stacks per Load Hub, for a total capacity of 112kWh and a continuous power output of 34.2kW! They are working on a software update to allow 5 stacks per Load Hub, too.
Tesla gets a -3 xfactor for Elon Musk - for me anyway
Love to see a point guard vs EP Canadian Cube. Seems all those x factor features it can already do
Great video Joe - The biggest thing I like about the stackables (regardless of brand) is if (when) it starts to have problems like maybe the batteries are having a problem you could just removed the failed section and keep going and buy a replacement section and not have to remove and replace the entire 250-300 lb unit.
@@Bowhunters6go8xz6x that’s a great consideration, and an area where the PointGuard design really shines. If one battery module fails, it will simply disconnect (internal contactor) and the remaining battery modules will continue working as normal until the bad modules can be serviced.
Another cool benefit to this design is adding more modules in the future made of different battery chemistries. Because each module has its own DC-DC converter to step up to the 400VDC buss, the chemistry of each module doesn’t matter and they can be mix and matched. Also, the age of differing modules won’t matter either, because each module is isolated on the other side of a DC converter. So you can add a new module 10 years down the road without worrying about the aging mismatch. Super cool stuff from PointGuard- that’s why I removed the SolarEdge system from my house and replaced it with PointGuard!
@@danieljohnson8245hi Daniel, how has your experience been overall for the pointguard system?
In all the other stackables, the battery packs are connected in series. That means if 1 pack fails, the whole stack is not functioning. With PointGuard, only the failed pack stops functioning, the other battery packs in the stack or system keep working, because the packs are connected in parallel. There is a lot of tech behind being able to connect packs in parallel, and we are leading the market in this technology, i.e. DC optimization stage in each pack.
@@SonoCars it’s been excellent! It’s a flexible and powerful system, with far more innovations than the rest of this sector. The DC bidirectional ev charger is going to revolutionize the home solar game, just wait until you see it!
thanks for the information. What are your thoughts on EcoFlow and the balcony solar panels and battery back up? Bascially its a solar set up for apartments and condos. I would like to hear your thoughts on that and if its worth it for those scenario's. Thank you for your time and feed back!!!!
Thanks for the video, Joe. Great to see another contender in the market. Echoing others, I'd love to see PointGuard vs EP Cube.
Me too.
I'd also like to discuss how these integrate with an Enphase-based solar panel (AC-coupled). Some of us, "early adopters", committed to Enphase and we now want to add storage. We can go with the Enphase batteries but we would like to compare/contrast.
@@epelegrillopartexcellent question, I’ve been looking into Enphase systems as well but not super impressed with their battery storage capacity.
@@epelegrillopart that integration is very easy! We installed a PointGuard system for one client who needed additional solar panels on a detached building. To save him the money on trenching, we put those panels on Enphase microinverters and let them backfeed the existing subpanel feeder circuit. This works like a charm, and if the grid is out and the batteries are full, PointGuard uses frequency shifting to control the output of those AC coupled panels.
@@danieljohnson8245 Thanks.
Given the adoption of microinverters until now, I wish the use case of "expand an existing solar installation with batteries" was better advertised by battery vendors. People like me may have NEM 2.0 plans but we are also sold on the concept of DERs ... and we are kind of tired of PG&E. We are looking for an excuse / justification to add storage and the Enphase batteries right now don't look that enticing, honestly.
@@epelegrillopart I agree wholeheartedly with that. I would say up until recently, Franklin was the best battery expansion option, but it leaves a lot to be desired with regard to the size of the solar array you can connect per Franklin battery.
PointGuard really shines in this area. it’s cheaper to install than a similar size Franklin system, and it has a way higher power input tolerance per kilowatt hour of energy storage. Any given sized Enphase array is going to be happier connecting to a PointGuard Energy system then it would be to a similar sized Franklin system. The Franklin system can only charge at 5 kw continuous per battery unit, so not only is PointGuard a better match for a larger array, you also have infinitely more control over the exact size of your PointGuard battery thanks to the 5 kWh and 8 kWh battery module options.
There is no vehicle PointGuard system can power a house from at this time. It is a bad idea to purchase equipment based on capabilities said to be coming in the future - especially with no timeline or specific path to functionality.
They have tested it with many different vehicles and it works great, thanks to Sig Energy (parent company) having such a big presence in Europe and Asia already. The hardware is ready, they would only have to update the software as new vehicles get added. Software updates are becoming such a normal part of our industry, I'm not worried about this. PointGuard is going to be the first to market with a fully integrated V2X home energy system designed to work with a variety of vehicles, and it's also going to be much higher power than most other products in this space (12kw or 25kw depending on your home electrical.)
We will se a significant surge of V2X in 2025, including multiple chargers (Enphase/ClipperCreek, Wallbox, Emporia, etc..). Even Tesla will have to provide it to be competitive.
@@epelegrillopartmaybe so, but no other product will have a fully integrated system that does everything like pointguard/Sigenergy does.
How much more efficient is the point guard system over tesla powerwall 3 from the homeowners perspective. “Efficient” for a solar installation conpany might mean something different for a honeowner. 11:38
Would love to see a comparison with the top 5 batteries so we can see them all together.
Been waiting on this one!! ty!
I would have liked to see comparable storage levels. How much would two of the PointGuard 8 KW modules + top Module+ EV BiDirectional Module (16 kW total) cost compared to the Tesla Powerwall (13.5 kW)? I was all excited last year about a BiDirectional EVSE until I realized there weren't any vehicles that I wanted that also had the battery chemistry to withstand daily cycling of the EV battery.
Can you use Enphase micro inverters with the Pointguard?
@@pinktacotuesday4573 yes, they pair flawlessly together thanks to the AC coupling ability of the PointGuard Load Hub.
Yes, PointGuard can be connected in an AC coupled configuration if you wish to use micro inverters
Capacity comparison is kind of an akward way to compare them when tesla can expand DC capacity as well.
The Tesla powerwall3 offers vehicle to home backup with the Cybertruck and other models to soon follow.
Do we know whether the CT integration is at the DC or at the AC level? Most other EVs do it at DC but I read somewhere that CT is doing it at AC. The PointGuard bidirectional is DC
@@epelegrillopart You got me there. I don't know if it's DC or AC. Let's revisit that in the future. But as someone already pointed out point guard doesn't make its own vehicles nor have they teamed up with an auto maker, so what good is a feature that no one uses nor can they.
Love your videos, learn a lot. Can I add a different battery to my powerwall 3 for storage?
No, you would have to stay within the Tesla ecosystem. You can use power wall DC expansion packs if you want additional storage capacity.
What if you need a bi-directional charger since you have an EV in conjunction with the Tesla power wall 3? I do understand that the Tesla power wall three will not work in conjunction with that. But is there some component, or product that you could buy to add to your system that would give that capability because after all, there is a lot of energy stored in your EV if needed. I’m in the process of installing a Tesla wall power three as back up but I do anticipate having an EV and using that as back up storage power is incredibly beneficial in a power down or blackout situation. That seems to be a downside or at least a con in the pros and cons of that unit. Please advise.
Tesla is working on a bi-directional EV charger as well. They already supported for Tesla cyber truck and they should be rolling it out for the entire fleet in the near future.
@@SolarSurge Is the Tesla charger DC or AC? DC is the most common one but I had read somewhere that the CT/PW3 was using AC. TIA
Why are these batteries always marketed as a 'backup' when the grid goes down. Surely 11.5kwh output is enough to replace the grid when the sun goes down for most people. The grid needs to be the backup for a battery solution to be financially viable for me anyway.
@@travishimself1973 that is exactly how this system operates in self-consumption mode. You set the minimum SOC of the batteries and the grid is not used unless the batteries reach that SOC. For homeowners using PointGuard, the grid is simply where you sell your surplus energy
Any installers offering PointGuard in central coast California?
How does point guard match up with Franklin
Good question. We will probably do a comparison once Franklin publishes its new specs at RE+.
Very favorably. My company installs both, and the PointGuard is cheaper and much more powerful - not to mention that it has a ton of features that Franklin doesn't have or charges for, such as load shedding and generator integration. 10 circuits of load shedding are included with PointGuard vs 3 from Franklin (and you have to buy the accessory.)
@@SolarSurge Looking forward to the new FranklinWH!
I thought powerwall 3 had the installation edge with their meter collar?
The meter collar is a nice feature, but not everyone can have it. There is also no generator integration with Tesla unless you install the Gateway, which is how Solar Surge were considering Tesla here in this video. Otherwise, you'd add a point for ease of install and remove an X factor point for no generator integration, so it's kind of a wash.
The capacity of the pointguard battery is monstrous.
Well my Sigenergy can have 48kw/h stack 8kw/h * 6 in one stack ,i have 3 of them for moment 24kw/h proberly going for fillit next year.
Good info. Thanks.
One parameter not mentioned is Surge Inverter Capacity.
Awesome info
I think you should give only 3 X-factor points because the bi-directional EVSE will not work if the OBC does not allow it.
The OBC (On board charger) is circumvented with DC charging. The OBC is only used with AC chargers...
Cheers !
Name the EV's available in North America that has Bidirectional AC or DC Charging. Leaf and CT are the only ones??
Chevy vehicles are capable and GM sells bidirectional chargers on its GM energy website
I skipped to the end once I saw you slinging their product. Comparing a single stack as one device isn't truthful. How many DC expansion modules can a PW3 take? Unsubbed for misleading info.You went out of your way to mislead people.
@@walkerdarin2003 I install both of these products, and I still can’t order DC expansion units from Tesla. Solar Surge are simply comparing available products here. Eventually the PW3 DC expansion units will become available, but that still won’t make them as easy to install as PointGuard thanks to the modular design.
Battery without virtual power plent capability is just meaningless in long term....
@@cowowhite the PointGuard system is VPP ready! Utilities and local energy co-ops can learn more by reaching out to PointGuard Energy.
Thanks, Joe for your trust and reliability over the years!🫡