Powerwall 3 owner here! I've been waiting for this iteration (at the 3rd iteration point, technologies really hit their straps), and as soon as it was released, installed it. Seamless. Faultless. The perfect addition to the home solar/EV/Everything Electric setup. Honestly could not be happier. Viva la renewable revolucion!
You have been ripped off. 13.5kwh for megabucks when batteries are now $50 per kwh. Tesla preys on the naive and uninformed. You will have an expensive white elephant when V2G becomes commonplace.
@@rogerphelps9939 He he, you don't know much about renewables, sadly. Works seamlessly - superb product, best on the market, no cheapy jobs for me. You can have your coal and gas, I'll stick with my solar panels, EV and home battery system. Energy independence, energy backup, VPP means I not only spend nothing on power, but make money from it. Winning!
Refreshing to hear someone knows the difference between kWh and kW. Also good that Imogen mentions the maximum rating of PW3. Not much point having all that stored energy if it can only supply enough to power a tv set. We installed a PW2 7 years ago and no issues so seems very raliable product (touch wood). One PW is enough for most people. If you have an EV I guess you may be able to do V to G in future so making multiple PW's less useful.
Re: V to G, I've heard and read of concerns about this putting the EV battery thru more charge/discharge cycles, thus reducing the life of the EV battery. It seems to be a reasonable concern but I've yet to see any quantitative numbers to back up that concern. Thoughts?
@@chuckm260 Tesla vehicles quote a 1500 cycle life to 80% SOC, so 4.1 years if you charge / discharge every day, after 1500 cycles, max loss of capacity is 20%, I build prismatic LPF batteries these had a cycle life of 4000 or 10.9 years charge / discharge every day the latest versions are 6000 cycles so 16.4 years, Powerwall 3 is using Prismatic LPF so expect a long life from these, Tesla needs to get their act together and start using prismatic cells in their vehicles instead of the cylindrical cells they currently use, these are not only much heavier but also don't package anywhere near as small as prismatic.
@@chuckm260 If it was your main battery that could be an issue but if you have it as an back up to your PW, it should not get much use (only in emergencies). Basically you can use your car instead of buying extra PWs for piece of mind.
I got a shock this week, the reception later asked if I wanted a room with a view. My hotel in Dundee has a scenic view of a council car park with NINE !! Powerwalls along with a solar array, some of which I assume is going into my car charging in one of 20 ish bays.
I have a Powerwall 2. This model will be discontinued with the introduction of the Powerwall 3. The Powerwall 3 does not integrate with a Powerwall 2. If I want to increase my capacity in the future I either have to buy a Powerwall 2 now or scrap the Powerwall 2 and the inverter I have and replace with 2 Powerwall 3’s. The same thing happened with the Powerwall 1. Tesla seem to have little concern for their existing customers. Buyer beware
I installed 2 PW3's and 7.29 kw of solar panels, I am a British ex-pat living in Anaheim Ca I have a swimming pool and my average usage is 30kwh per day the panel produces an average of 40kwh so I export some excess. My electric bill on average is now $0 compared to $250 a month.
We fitted a Powerball 2 back in 2018 and it has proved it's worth, HOWEVER: Something to allow for as regards winter usage. The trick is to charge up on off Peak (the old economy 7) when energy is cheap, to run the house during the day when it is not. Here is the catch: Octopus only allow 3 hours at Off Peak, and Tesla throttle the charge rate to 1800 kWh, (although the battery can charge at way more), and that 3 hours will noware near fully charge the battery. I therefor find myself using mains during the day as there is not enough for a days use. Adding another Powerwall would not solve the issue, as I would get no more energy due to the throttling. I have considered adding a Libby, as that would charge independently, enabling both batteries to charge at 1800 kWh, so doubling the charge, but I think I will probably just get a big Bluetti or Eco-Flo portable power unit that I can plug some of the Herschel IR panels into to bridge the gap. They would charge independently, be available for other uses, and cost less than a Libbi or Powerwall. All this depends on having an Off Peak Tariff. If the hours and duration change, so do all the calculations :-(. If the Economy 7 type Tariff is discontinued for any reason, adding storage is much less of an investment, only really being useful in the 8 to 9 months of longer days. Winter tends towards Bugger-All :-(.
@@NunoLima1337 I am making an assumption that Tesla is throttling to preserve the battery. At other times it has charged at 3.3k (the max on my solar at Peak) with out any problem. As it exports at 5k there would seem to be no issue with the local infrastructure. Also, back when I was on the "Tesla Tariff," it charged at a higher rate, but then I had no control over the system except turning the battery off. The car will charge at 7k. I am on Octopus Flux, but I don't see how Octopus can control the Powerwall.
That's odd, worth checking out. I'm on Intelligent Octopus Go and my PW2 fully charges in the six hour cheap slot. Doesn't take the full six hours, not sure how long it takes but shares it with our EV..
@@NunoLima1337 exactly !!!!! 1800kWh is a CAPACITY measurement, not a flow rate (kW); also with multiple Powerwall units you cumulate the inflow / outflow rates !!!!!
How many years is your payback? I realise there are different times for different usage patterns. Have you got the chance to join an energy provider that buys up your surplus from the PW3?
@@grittsy I’ve estimated payback is 4-6 years as I’m a heavy electricity consumer. Octopus Flex is your best bet for buying at 7p overnight selling at 15p daytime but I consume more than 13kW daily and am still on an old FiT solar tariff for another 10 years no selling is not economic for me yet.
Great to share the installation with you and chat about Powerwall 3. Looking forward to helping people with battery storage and solar at Everything Electric SOUTH from tomorrow. We are on stand H10 if you are there and would like to come and see us.
The PW3 provides 13.5 kWh capacity, a peak power of 30 kW and continous power of 11.05 kW as described by Imogen. According to GivEnergy's own blurb their All-in-One provides 7.2kW peak/6.0kW continuous
GivEnegy have announced an all one battery and inverter with a capacity of 13.6kWh, so a direct competitor to the powerwall 3. Spirit Energy did a video about it a few days ago. Some of the smart features sound quite clever.
I installed an oversized PV array on the roof to live off solar during the winter but was disappointed to find that despite getting well over the export limit on sunny mid-winter days when the sun is low in the sky, there was NOTHING on cloudy winter days which makes the idea of solar off-grid nonviable, despite batteries. Please revisit this property in late December on a dark, cloudy day! Perhaps we need a wind turbine configured to output D.C. lines like a virtual solar array then simply add it to the existing solar array.
Agree, I have 9.75 kW of panels, half east and half west facing. well oversized and in winter there are days when I get close to nothing. I would add though that in summer I’m building credit up through export to offset most of the winter costs. I have 2 EV’s too.
99% of people do not need to, or are not allowed to live off-grid in the UK due to nasty planning laws. However, if one owns a Renault 5 or 4 or other EV, or have a mobile battery, then vehicle to load can help. Do you know that some old Tesla Model S cars come with free forever supercharging and 80 KWhr batteries - that makes free home power forever ! Usually, UK Winter winds cause overnight free or negative priced wholesale electricity - just say thanks and use the grid for its intended purpose ?
Giverenergy has less capacity than PW3? The direct competitor product to PW3 is a Givenergy All-in-One (AIO) which has a capacity of 13.5kWh and max charge/discharge of 6kW practically the same spec. as PW3. Everything Electric used to be a gold standard for accuracy, but recent videos have many inaccuracies. Please tighten up your editorial standards.
Love the tech and the fact that they are now LFP, but the one thing that has frustrated me is that over the past 3 years since we had solar installed, home battery storage hasn't got any cheaper. I thought having LFP would make the PW3 much cheaper. In most cases, it doesn't make financial sense to buy a Powerwall 2 or 3.
Ive been doing the same - monitoring the market. It amazes me that no one addresses the economics on here - I reckon the payback period is at least 10 years still.
@@markkunes9711 We have solar and our annual bill is ~$600. A powerwall is $18,000. Even if we could reduced our annual power bill to $0 it would still take us 30 years to offset the upfront cost.
It's a shame you can't have versions which you can bury in the driveway with wiring point and controls in an access hatch which provides IP68 sealing against surface water to >1m depth. |I have no where I can install this close to my meter except underground.
Tbh, it is usually only ever discussed as a side-benefit. Most battery storage discussions focus on the ability to a) utilise a higher proportion of your solar generation, b) get better access to the benefits of off-peak energy tariffs. No doubt, being able to function off-grid is a nice bonus, but it definitely isn't used as a selling/talking point by those that actually have battery storage systems in place.
The real benefit is running life between zero cost or in winter at the off peak rate all day. I agree that power cuts aren't much of a thing. We got a Powerwall 2 5 years ago and it's saving us a fortune and paid for itself.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б I keep a spreadsheet to track it all - we're 100% electric so thats heating via a heat pump for water and house, plus cooking, lighting and a car. We use about 5MwH per year before the car and about 6 now. We charge the battery up overnight to fill the 13kwh battery and then run the heating etc through the day at 7p per unit vs the 35p we would have paid daily. Today its down to 28p. Essentially we save on average £2.60 today and it was up to about £4 per day this way. The prices were £5500 back in 2019 so payback maybe longer for some depending on your utility rates and off peak rates. Our total monthly bill is £40 including the car doing 8k miles pa...thats mostly the standing charge and any excess over the battery capacity in the thick of winter. Hope that helps.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б thanks...I can't tell you about the battery management. I leave Tesla to manage that but we've not noticed any degradation... It's very small whatever it is. It charges to near 100% bit a trickle rate of a few kWh so low stress. It's been far simpler than I expected. Good luck with your own projects
@ 05:00 Although he didn't say it, I'm guessing he means you need to retain ( or buy ) a separate inverter for your Microinverter setup. And at a quoted extra £1000 for the PW3 I would be better off with the Powerwall 2.
Tesla are bringing out a Powerwall 3 without an inverter (DC expansion unit). This can be used as a second battery rather than have 2-Powerwalls with an inverter each. Much cheaper.
What I need to know is the noise level. I've seen plenty of reviews; it seems a powerwall could be compatible with the battery already integrated in my solar set up and a better alternative than expanding that one. But I worry about how much noise it makes. I've seen a few of the previous model and the humming(i guess the inverter) is louder than a refrigerator; that's enough to bother the family at night. I don't get why details like that are always left out. If the powerwall 3 has improved over the 2 and it's more silent it's good to show it,or, if it hasn't we need to know. Not everyone has a garage or an isolated room for this
@@t1n4444 Not really a downside but something to be aware of. It's a key date of any protect like the capacity, voltage,... if you see the dB on the box of a vacuum cleaner or a dishwasher Why not with this ?
@@htsyami And you believe the public are going to do that, then? However the sound level wasn't mentioned in the episode hence something to be wary of. Mind you if the unit is fixed to a stud wall, say, then who knows what resonant frequencies are produced throughout the structure?
🤣I chuckled when you said the average household only uses 13.5 kWh per day, I can believe that for England which has a similar latitude as Canada. Here in the USA especially in the sun belt, I believe 40+ kWh/day is the average. Mine certainly is.
So no one wants to give the payback period. Here's a rough estimate. My panels only generate a small amount compared to what I use, so the saving would be from charging at the night rate and emptying at the day rate. My day rate 25p, night 7p. So if I fully charge and discharge I will be saving 13.5 kWh x (25-7) = £2.43 per day or £886 per annum. If the toatal cost including install was £10k then it would take 11 years to pay back. Not a brilliant rate of return on investment yet but the batteries will come down in future I am sure.
Financial sanity check for 4 bedroom house : grid :13.5 kW x 30p x 365 x 10yrs = £14,782 panels : 1x Tesla power wall, +gateway, +panels, +lost interest @4% £5,500+ £800+ £5,000 + £4,520= £15,820 Have I missed something here ??? thanks.
The Powerwalls will always have an innate disadvantage. Every powerwall you buy, comes along with an inverter. For two powerwalls, you do not need two inverters at 2x the cost, when a 2x bigger inverter will only cost you something around 1.2x the smaller inverter. If Tesla comes out with a new dumb powerwall which doesn't have an inverter, which is also about 30-40% of the total powerwall cost, it's adoption rate will increase. I have a battery backup system, and it comes with a single large inverter and has 50kWh usable, which during emergencies and powercuts, can last more than a week for us, and getting an equivalent pw3 system would have been crazy expensive.
Interesting how they've overbuilt the system for the trough of power generation. That's what RethinkX has suggested the entire grid do with solar, wind, and batteries.
No mention of payback period ie total cost including installation divided by annual saving on the lectric bill. I would guess 10 years - but what is it actually?
Ran the numbers on an installation of this with enough solar to make it useful, and can’t make it work economically. Seems much better to use NG backup genie with grid electric. Like the idea, can’t justify the cost.
Forget Solar in a British winter, when the average energy produced from say 8-10 panels on a dismal Dec-Feb day could give you as little as 5Kwh. 2 Powerwall 3's filled up with 27 Kwh of overnight 7p per Kwh electric, fed into a Heat Pump with a COP of 3-4. A 20 year investment. Do the Maths!
My aunt and uncle have had solar for about 12 years in South Wales which is very wet and rainy, and they have generated thousands of kwh's per year, they broke even many years ago.
Why, are you wanting to silence him, take it you are one of the people who want to silence anyone who disagrees with your view point which ironically would make you the fascist/right wing extremist, who presumably as a left winger is the thing you abhor. Odd that, you become so left wing that you turn full circle. Everybody must be controlled, everyone must agree with me or else, everyone must be controlled by government. Suggest you read Animal Farm
If only the Powerwall 3 was backwards compatible with the Powerwall 2. We have a Powerwall 2 and want to addd a second one. For some reason, it is not possible to add a Powerwall 3 to an existing Powerwall 2. Instead, we have to buy two Powerwall 3s and sell or scrap off the Powerwall 2. Not great, especially as production of the Powerwall 2 is now stopping.
Every time you switch off a coil, or any magnetic field for that matter, the collapsing magnetic field generates a pulse (Back EMF), which has been thrown away until now, but it can be recovered. The pulses (voltage only, which can exceed hundreds of volts) can be collected in a capacitor bank and returned back to the batteries, as voltage. There's plenty of research and products, just waiting to be incorporated into existing motors and generators.
Where do you live? 35kWh sounds like you're running A/C which is very uncommon in the UK. My 3 bedroom house in southern England runs at about 11kWh per day.
No it's not 11kWh. It's 11kW. Meaning it's so powerful that even if fully charged, it can drain itself in about 1 hour even with its big battery. It's got power!
I have learnt something new in the video - Imogen is 5'4.5" in old money! TPW3 is an impressive piece of kit but the GivEnergy 13.5Kw all in one is £2k cheaper. Is the TPW3 worth the extra £2k per TPW3 (I am guessing that there is a discount for installing 2 or more so it might be £3-3.5k for 2 TPW3 installation)
The PW3 can provide much higher peak and continuous output as mentioned in the vid which would explain price differences. Apparently you'll be able to bolt on a second cheaper PW3 without an inverter if you only need the storage capacity. And, yes, Imogen is indeed an impressive piece of kit. Oh, wait, sorry, I misread your comment.
@@spiritusinfinitus outside of countries that need aircon, what level of continuous power should we actually need though. UK needs might, and probably are, very different to US needs, if we take a typical UK house use of 11 kw per day add in a heat pump and a bit of spare capacity, do we really need continuous power output of 10 KwH or would 6-7 be perfectly adequate? [for clarity I do not know the answer, this is a genuine question]
@@justinstephenson9360 Take gas out of the equation and use electricity for heating and hot water and you can easily blast through 11 kW per day. I used to live in a flat that was way more than that. If you have a couple of electric showers and instant undersink heaters (and assume no room to fit a hot water tank inside) I think most people vastly underestimate their actual peak usage when specifying these systems and many end up disappointed, but more often than not won't say that because of the cognitive dissonance caused by spending tens of thousands of pounds on a system!
@@spiritusinfinitus And that is why I asked what do we need if we take 11 Kw (which is across an entire day not 11 KwH) as the normal usage then ADD in something for a heat pump as the heating and hot water and then a margin for error do we need 11 KwH continuous usage or would 6 KwH continuous usage be sufficient take into account potential peaks for example when someone puts the kettle on!
Exactly my first "huh" in this video as I'm currently looking at the givenergy set up. My second huh was the amount of electricity this guy needs and wants to be off grid in the city centre. Each to their own, but seems like an extra cost when you get cheap night tariffs.
Several other details weren't quite right either, powerwall 2 was same size energy storage for example. They made it sound like this was more 🤷 @@colinwiseman
GivEnergy All in One is 13.5kwh as well please check your facts or it makes you sound biased to a manufacturer. LFP is great but again the GivEnergy is also LFP. Dont get me wrong PW3 looks a great bit of kit but please remain unbiased.
Agreed. I reckon the cost of owning it is 17 pence per kwh over a 15 year life, so you would struggle to get your money back at current import/export differentials. Currently only a green play.
@@Zarphag £7,800, with the discount, is high compared to other installers. I've seen it going for £7,600. Joju seem to be selling it as standard for £8,100.
Thanks for a wonderful informative video and great specifications now for the third version of the Tesla Powerwall - except for 130 Kg weight and the price of needing two of them and the gateway/transfer switch installation fees to get any off-grid capacity and no compatibility with the previous versions of the Powerwall. It is also a pity that previous Tesla Powerwall version look so bad relatively now and that the price of the complete installation was too high to be mentioned in this video and that also excludes the additional solar PV installation cost. I love Tesla, I love Elon Musk but they took a long time to learn about the advantages of Lithium Iron Phosphate cells and these prices are much higher than a simple 48 V self-build battery (less than BP 3000). I suggest that people needing power when the grid goes down might be better off focusing on just a subset of loads with no power peaks to isolate onto a separate consumer unit.
11 kWh per day in an average household? If you live in a multistore apartment complex I can believe that, but no way for a standalone household. Even in the summer months (Scandinavia) in a small apartment with a FTX heatpump I would be around double that amount.
yes, my year round averge is 26kWh/day with peak in Winter of around 40-45kwh/day [Dunedin]; so just kept adding panels and batteries to bring the system up to maximize no grid
@@Leopold5100 The problem you'll have is solar production is poor in the winter, so to power your home and heatpump with panels and battery requires a system that's way too big in the summer. If you lived somewhere warmer, then it's summer cooling you need (I'm sure you'll use your heatpump for AC a few times in summer on warm NW days), solar and AC go together much better.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б yes almost all houses have a 3 phase grid. Standard houses have 25A apartments have 20A. If you have a heat pump it's more. It's hard to say in kWh since that's power over time.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б well if you want you can order more power as an example a friend has a small house but a 63A connection. On the other hand it's mostly cheaper to use a sort of power management, if you have enough time to charge your EV it's no problem. To your second question sure that would be possible but what for? There are rules about fire security with lithium ion batteries but beside that I don't know a reason why it shouldn't be allowed.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б there almost no state incentives for buying a EV and most people rent their apartments, which leads to no charging infrastructure because the landlord does not have to install a charger.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б wind power would be a great source of energy in Switzerland, we build a lot of solar, it's already around 10% of our needs, we are also a net exporter of electricity. It would make sense to push EVs, the problem lies more with the states and communitys, because no one wants to be responsible. So some places give incentives for charging infrastructure and EVs some don't. To the H2 that's in my opinion not worth doing, but we will see what the future brings.
Agree that the label is wrong as it is just layperson speak for "your inverter has lower peak capacity than your solar array" - way too many folk with tiny solar arrays when in reality the marginal cost of extra panels always makes going as large as you can the most cost effective option.
Joju gave me a ridiculous quote, they must realise they're not competitive? Installers are doing it for £7500-8000, and Joju quoted me £11500 lol. I hope they've realised.
Does anyone manufacture a system that uses Sodium-ion batteries? The fact that Sodium-ion batteries are much heavier than Lithium-ion really doesn't matter for stationary storage, and the materials are cheaper.
Their voltage range do not match current inverters of 48v. You’ll not be able to charge them all the way, over time the drift will cause issues. This would require inverters to increase their voltage range, or the industry needs to come out with 60v inverter and panel. The solar industry however decided to increase amps rather than volts, I doubt sodium batteries will catch on for homes in current configuration.
@@asderven That's absolute nonsense, if you need a battery to have a particular voltage then you can design that into the battery whilst designing the battery you're going to build, regardless of whether it's a sodium-oin battery or a lithium-oin battery.
@@matthewbaynham6286 I didn’t get my point across. Sodium batteries are 2v to 4v per cell, with a nominal 3.1v. Let’s assume you need 16 cells to make a nominal 48v battery. Max voltage = 16 x 4 = 64v. Minimum voltage = 2v x 16 = 32v. The inverter presently works between 42v and 60v. When the inverter sees the battery is 60v, it will stop charging. If the battery hits 42v it will stop discharging. Does that make better sense about how components are mismatched? Solar panels shifted from 12A to 14A~18A about three years ago, most hybrid inverter companies have not revamped their models until now. 2025 march is the next hope, but if the don’t, they won’t. Compared to that, sodium lithium batteries are even less of a concern for them. That is why at present it is hard to make them work. Bms can be tweaked, but this would only happen in the diy space. No company would issue settings for a sodium battery until they are sure. Expect a minimum of 4-8 years before sodium lithium cells catch on. By that point, the battery technology should have fundamentally started to change, negating the use of sodium batteries.
Tesla batteries are ridiculously overpriced. The price seems to be well above £500 per kwh but batteries are now around $50 per kwh. Even allowing for the interface electronics Tesla is laughing all the way to the bank. I have a Skoda Enyaq with an 80kwh battery. The basic price of these is around £40k so that is £500 per kwh with a car thrown in. It does not have V2L or V2G but very soon any EV worth its salt will have V2L or V2G as standard and in order to commpete Tesla will have to cut its prices drastically or exit the market.
@@philipashton6657 So will the Tesla battery. So will all EVs. So will all ICE cars. Your point? I really don't care because I bought new and will be using it until it falls apart which will be a lot longer than for most ICE cars.
My point is that it is not a sustainable business model. What are you going to do for spare parts when they eventually shelve their money losing strategy? Tesla vehicles actually do make a profit, and it is largely due to their manufacturing techniques. Ok, they are expensive at the moment, but they are across the board value for what you are paying. There is a reason that the model y is the best selling car in the world.... EVs are bringing about the demise of the old way of doing vehicle business. Service and spare parts were the vast majority of a car companies profits. They push hybrids on us for this fact alone.....
Old auto needs to change its mind set, or they will go out of business. It is an expensive transition. Capitalism dictates they need to make a profit, or lose stock market value and likely go out of business. Catch 22....
I’ve done nothing but research this past month and looked at all options at least twice, read spec sheets, spoke to installers, watched videos and talked to a few owners of other batteries. The Tesla is a bit more expensive (in my case to the tune of £2k) but it is head and shoulders above everything else.
The cells are only part of the Powerwall, it's the battery management system electronics and software that can make a big difference along with the VPP option (Virtual Power Plant) that Tesla often offers.
11kWh per day for a household sounds quite high for the UK. Perhaps with a heat pump and EV charging on top, yes. But maybe ditch the tumble dryer for wind and or a dehumidifier.
Tesla is over, for me at least. Not even for free, I have values. Without ethics, humans have no place in this planet. Look into Panasonic Evervolt residential batteries. There's also a line of residential batteries from BYD US, but I'm not sure they are already selling it. Look also into Sonnen, LG Chem, and Duracell.
I'd have been all over this but seeing that my money would be going to a man who sees fit to jump and dance around on stage with Trump is just a no go now.
The Powerwall is a great, great battery that very few homeowners can afford. Powerwalls are ok for the richest 1 or 5%. But their excessive price, over $1,000 US per kWh installed, is actually hurting the climate because it is inhibiting the wider adoption of green energy. To go all electric and to free homeowners from corrupt electricity cartels (many are pretty horrid), the average home will need 20-50 kWh of storage. Bill Gates can afford that. Next, a fully electric house will need 2 or 3 or 4 Powerwalls or their equivalent to stay energy independent with a fully electric home. Again, I would love to have a few Powerwalls. But given rising prices for everything, having enough home battery storage to have an all electric hime is currently a pipe dream for 90 plus percent of homeowners.
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Powerwall 3 owner here! I've been waiting for this iteration (at the 3rd iteration point, technologies really hit their straps), and as soon as it was released, installed it. Seamless. Faultless. The perfect addition to the home solar/EV/Everything Electric setup. Honestly could not be happier. Viva la renewable revolucion!
You have been ripped off. 13.5kwh for megabucks when batteries are now $50 per kwh. Tesla preys on the naive and uninformed. You will have an expensive white elephant when V2G becomes commonplace.
@@rogerphelps9939 He he, you don't know much about renewables, sadly. Works seamlessly - superb product, best on the market, no cheapy jobs for me. You can have your coal and gas, I'll stick with my solar panels, EV and home battery system. Energy independence, energy backup, VPP means I not only spend nothing on power, but make money from it. Winning!
It is not for the average homeowner I would think.
Everything good until EMP strikes from above at winter -20C
9000€, 13,5kw
Refreshing to hear someone knows the difference between kWh and kW. Also good that Imogen mentions the maximum rating of PW3. Not much point having all that stored energy if it can only supply enough to power a tv set. We installed a PW2 7 years ago and no issues so seems very raliable product (touch wood). One PW is enough for most people. If you have an EV I guess you may be able to do V to G in future so making multiple PW's less useful.
Re: V to G, I've heard and read of concerns about this putting the EV battery thru more charge/discharge cycles, thus reducing the life of the EV battery. It seems to be a reasonable concern but I've yet to see any quantitative numbers to back up that concern. Thoughts?
@@chuckm260 Tesla vehicles quote a 1500 cycle life to 80% SOC, so 4.1 years if you charge / discharge every day, after 1500 cycles, max loss of capacity is 20%, I build prismatic LPF batteries these had a cycle life of 4000 or 10.9 years charge / discharge every day the latest versions are 6000 cycles so 16.4 years, Powerwall 3 is using Prismatic LPF so expect a long life from these, Tesla needs to get their act together and start using prismatic cells in their vehicles instead of the cylindrical cells they currently use, these are not only much heavier but also don't package anywhere near as small as prismatic.
@@chuckm260 If it was your main battery that could be an issue but if you have it as an back up to your PW, it should not get much use (only in emergencies). Basically you can use your car instead of buying extra PWs for piece of mind.
I got a shock this week, the reception later asked if I wanted a room with a view. My hotel in Dundee has a scenic view of a council car park with NINE !! Powerwalls along with a solar array, some of which I assume is going into my car charging in one of 20 ish bays.
I have a Powerwall 2. This model will be discontinued with the introduction of the Powerwall 3. The Powerwall 3 does not integrate with a Powerwall 2. If I want to increase my capacity in the future I either have to buy a Powerwall 2 now or scrap the Powerwall 2 and the inverter I have and replace with 2 Powerwall 3’s. The same thing happened with the Powerwall 1. Tesla seem to have little concern for their existing customers. Buyer beware
She is lovely and holds engagement throughout what could be a dry presentation of stats and facts.
I installed 2 PW3's and 7.29 kw of solar panels, I am a British ex-pat living in Anaheim Ca I have a swimming pool and my average usage is 30kwh per day the panel produces an average of 40kwh so I export some excess. My electric bill on average is now $0 compared to $250 a month.
How much the system cost ?
just fyi, you are a British immigrant, not an expat.
When will you be doing a video on the upcoming GivEnergy All in one Gen2?
Very impressive recollection of stats.
We fitted a Powerball 2 back in 2018 and it has proved it's worth, HOWEVER: Something to allow for as regards winter usage. The trick is to charge up on off Peak (the old economy 7) when energy is cheap, to run the house during the day when it is not.
Here is the catch: Octopus only allow 3 hours at Off Peak, and Tesla throttle the charge rate to 1800 kWh, (although the battery can charge at way more), and that 3 hours will noware near fully charge the battery. I therefor find myself using mains during the day as there is not enough for a days use. Adding another Powerwall would not solve the issue, as I would get no more energy due to the throttling. I have considered adding a Libby, as that would charge independently, enabling both batteries to charge at 1800 kWh, so doubling the charge, but I think I will probably just get a big Bluetti or Eco-Flo portable power unit that I can plug some of the Herschel IR panels into to bridge the gap. They would charge independently, be available for other uses, and cost less than a Libbi or Powerwall.
All this depends on having an Off Peak Tariff. If the hours and duration change, so do all the calculations :-(. If the Economy 7 type Tariff is discontinued for any reason, adding storage is much less of an investment, only really being useful in the 8 to 9 months of longer days. Winter tends towards Bugger-All :-(.
throttle to 1800kWh? Is that per year?
I'm on Octopus Agile and the PW2 charges at 5KW overnight for as long as needed to go back up to 100%.
@@NunoLima1337 I am making an assumption that Tesla is throttling to preserve the battery. At other times it has charged at 3.3k (the max on my solar at Peak) with out any problem. As it exports at 5k there would seem to be no issue with the local infrastructure. Also, back when I was on the "Tesla Tariff," it charged at a higher rate, but then I had no control over the system except turning the battery off. The car will charge at 7k.
I am on Octopus Flux, but I don't see how Octopus can control the Powerwall.
I have a PW2 and on Octopus Flux. It charges overnight at 5 kWh rate with no issues. I would suggest contacting your installer for support.
That's odd, worth checking out. I'm on Intelligent Octopus Go and my PW2 fully charges in the six hour cheap slot. Doesn't take the full six hours, not sure how long it takes but shares it with our EV..
@@NunoLima1337 exactly !!!!! 1800kWh is a CAPACITY measurement, not a flow rate (kW); also with multiple Powerwall units you cumulate the inflow / outflow rates !!!!!
Great channel. Really good professional TV grade content. This vid was exactly what I was looking for to understand the future of PW/solar.
Nice work Joju. Quite a sleek installation!
Excellent and accurate information for viewers. Had mine installed yesterday and was done in a single day, just!
How many years is your payback? I realise there are different times for different usage patterns. Have you got the chance to join an energy provider that buys up your surplus from the PW3?
@@grittsy I’ve estimated payback is 4-6 years as I’m a heavy electricity consumer. Octopus Flex is your best bet for buying at 7p overnight selling at 15p daytime but I consume more than 13kW daily and am still on an old FiT solar tariff for another 10 years no selling is not economic for me yet.
Great to share the installation with you and chat about Powerwall 3. Looking forward to helping people with battery storage and solar at Everything Electric SOUTH from tomorrow. We are on stand H10 if you are there and would like to come and see us.
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for sharing.
Just fitted a PW3, worked out financially best choice given the capacity and built in inverter, was quite surprised.
It is actually really competitive in terms of cost per kWh, as you say.
Well the failure rate is quite high so standby!
@@boblatkey7160 sure bro sure
Powerwall 2 capacity, incorrect statement.
I have a Powerwall 2, its capacity is the same as Powerwall 3 at 13.5kwh.
In my area 2x Powerwall 3 is the same price as, 10kw inverter,15kw solar and 60kw of battery.
2:03 GivEnergy All-in-One is also 13.5 kWh (12.4 approx usable), and has built in Invertor too 👍
The PW3 provides 13.5 kWh capacity, a peak power of 30 kW and continous power of 11.05 kW as described by Imogen. According to GivEnergy's own blurb their All-in-One provides 7.2kW peak/6.0kW continuous
@@spiritusinfinitus Yes, absolutely. Was just noting the capacity is similar/same.
Can you please compare this battery to the GivEnergy and SigEnergy batteries.
@@davehollowell2104
Somehow I don't believe that's very likely ... for some "obscure" reason.
Have you seen the new Giv Hybrid All in One? Looks wicked... ruclips.net/video/cKc0l08frIc/видео.htmlfeature=shared
@@t1n4444 There's a good video out there on RUclips already comparing the Giv and the Tesla.
There are videos comparing AIO and Tesla 3 but no one seems to be talking about the SigEnergy. I think it's really new
GivEnegy have announced an all one battery and inverter with a capacity of 13.6kWh, so a direct competitor to the powerwall 3. Spirit Energy did a video about it a few days ago. Some of the smart features sound quite clever.
I'm planning on using two EG4 14.3 kWh batteries with their 18k inverter.
Great episode and great host!
can you stick magnets to the casing / box? or is it plastic?
Thank you.
I installed an oversized PV array on the roof to live off solar during the winter but was disappointed to find that despite getting well over the export limit on sunny mid-winter days when the sun is low in the sky, there was NOTHING on cloudy winter days which makes the idea of solar off-grid nonviable, despite batteries. Please revisit this property in late December on a dark, cloudy day!
Perhaps we need a wind turbine configured to output D.C. lines like a virtual solar array then simply add it to the existing solar array.
Agree, I have 9.75 kW of panels, half east and half west facing. well oversized and in winter there are days when I get close to nothing.
I would add though that in summer I’m building credit up through export to offset most of the winter costs. I have 2 EV’s too.
You would need a very capable dc-dc converter and 15m height for sensible windpower addition, talking about 500W, not in the kW.
99% of people do not need to, or are not allowed to live off-grid in the UK due to nasty planning laws. However, if one owns a Renault 5 or 4 or other EV, or have a mobile battery, then vehicle to load can help. Do you know that some old Tesla Model S cars come with free forever supercharging and 80 KWhr batteries - that makes free home power forever ! Usually, UK Winter winds cause overnight free or negative priced wholesale electricity - just say thanks and use the grid for its intended purpose ?
Giverenergy has less capacity than PW3? The direct competitor product to PW3 is a Givenergy All-in-One (AIO) which has a capacity of 13.5kWh and max charge/discharge of 6kW practically the same spec. as PW3. Everything Electric used to be a gold standard for accuracy, but recent videos have many inaccuracies. Please tighten up your editorial standards.
is there a port to plug your ev cable into it straight off the battery , solar charge battery in day, battery charge car at night sounds simple
Going to get solar+battery in the coming months - 100% going for Tesla vs anyone else - so much more value and they look so much better
Love the tech and the fact that they are now LFP, but the one thing that has frustrated me is that over the past 3 years since we had solar installed, home battery storage hasn't got any cheaper. I thought having LFP would make the PW3 much cheaper. In most cases, it doesn't make financial sense to buy a Powerwall 2 or 3.
Ive been doing the same - monitoring the market. It amazes me that no one addresses the economics on here - I reckon the payback period is at least 10 years still.
No VAT on batteries now though, so that helps to reduce the price?
Yes I'm confident the suppliers will reduce the total price by the full amount
@@markkunes9711 We have solar and our annual bill is ~$600. A powerwall is $18,000. Even if we could reduced our annual power bill to $0 it would still take us 30 years to offset the upfront cost.
It's a shame you can't have versions which you can bury in the driveway with wiring point and controls in an access hatch which provides IP68 sealing against surface water to >1m depth. |I have no where I can install this close to my meter except underground.
I seem to hear the 'If you have a power cut' argument a lot in regard to home batteries. The last power cut I remember was in the 1970s.
Tbh, it is usually only ever discussed as a side-benefit.
Most battery storage discussions focus on the ability to a) utilise a higher proportion of your solar generation, b) get better access to the benefits of off-peak energy tariffs.
No doubt, being able to function off-grid is a nice bonus, but it definitely isn't used as a selling/talking point by those that actually have battery storage systems in place.
The real benefit is running life between zero cost or in winter at the off peak rate all day. I agree that power cuts aren't much of a thing. We got a Powerwall 2 5 years ago and it's saving us a fortune and paid for itself.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б I keep a spreadsheet to track it all - we're 100% electric so thats heating via a heat pump for water and house, plus cooking, lighting and a car. We use about 5MwH per year before the car and about 6 now. We charge the battery up overnight to fill the 13kwh battery and then run the heating etc through the day at 7p per unit vs the 35p we would have paid daily. Today its down to 28p. Essentially we save on average £2.60 today and it was up to about £4 per day this way. The prices were £5500 back in 2019 so payback maybe longer for some depending on your utility rates and off peak rates. Our total monthly bill is £40 including the car doing 8k miles pa...thats mostly the standing charge and any excess over the battery capacity in the thick of winter. Hope that helps.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б thanks...I can't tell you about the battery management. I leave Tesla to manage that but we've not noticed any degradation... It's very small whatever it is. It charges to near 100% bit a trickle rate of a few kWh so low stress. It's been far simpler than I expected. Good luck with your own projects
Lucky you- we’ve had more than a dozen in the last month.
Surely the power curve remains the same shape. But the area under it increases.
@ 05:00 Although he didn't say it, I'm guessing he means you need to retain ( or buy ) a separate inverter for your Microinverter setup. And at a quoted extra £1000 for the PW3 I would be better off with the Powerwall 2.
So no mention of off grid use..
Do they have possibility of generator control
new lfp batteries are getting insane cheap. the new MB31 from EVE cost about 70€ per kWh. that is crazy.
Tesla are bringing out a Powerwall 3 without an inverter (DC expansion unit). This can be used as a second battery rather than have 2-Powerwalls with an inverter each. Much cheaper.
What I need to know is the noise level. I've seen plenty of reviews; it seems a powerwall could be compatible with the battery already integrated in my solar set up and a better alternative than expanding that one. But I worry about how much noise it makes. I've seen a few of the previous model and the humming(i guess the inverter) is louder than a refrigerator; that's enough to bother the family at night. I don't get why details like that are always left out. If the powerwall 3 has improved over the 2 and it's more silent it's good to show it,or, if it hasn't we need to know. Not everyone has a garage or an isolated room for this
@@samuxan
Yes, but, why mention the possible downsides too early in the narrative?
Then google the datasheet and look at the decibel levels yourself
@@t1n4444 Not really a downside but something to be aware of. It's a key date of any protect like the capacity, voltage,... if you see the dB on the box of a vacuum cleaner or a dishwasher Why not with this ?
@@htsyami
And you believe the public are going to do that, then?
However the sound level wasn't mentioned in the episode hence something to be wary of.
Mind you if the unit is fixed to a stud wall, say, then who knows what resonant frequencies are produced throughout the structure?
It’s completely silent. We’ve installed a lot of these and never heard the fans once. You won’t notice it, even if it’s in the garage.
-Tok
1:54 givEnergy's AIO is 13.5KWh too. It's a bit cheaper and a big rough around the edges but they compete directly with the powerwall
‘If you did have a power cut’ you mean when! Thanks Mad Ed Millipede
Octopus has scheme - no money down for solar battery installed, pay off over 5 to 20 years
🤣I chuckled when you said the average household only uses 13.5 kWh per day, I can believe that for England which has a similar latitude as Canada. Here in the USA especially in the sun belt, I believe 40+ kWh/day is the average. Mine certainly is.
Try reflective insulation and awnings ?
Hmmmm How do you repair roof leaks or replace your roof?
Sad enough still not avalible in the Netherlands. So what is the next best thing?
For this kind of money I would go for the Sigenergy, it's modular and upgradable.
So no one wants to give the payback period. Here's a rough estimate. My panels only generate a small amount compared to what I use, so the saving would be from charging at the night rate and emptying at the day rate. My day rate 25p, night 7p. So if I fully charge and discharge I will be saving 13.5 kWh x (25-7) = £2.43 per day or £886 per annum. If the toatal cost including install was £10k then it would take 11 years to pay back. Not a brilliant rate of return on investment yet but the batteries will come down in future I am sure.
Nice
Financial sanity check for 4 bedroom house :
grid :13.5 kW x 30p x 365 x 10yrs = £14,782
panels : 1x Tesla power wall, +gateway, +panels, +lost interest @4%
£5,500+ £800+ £5,000 + £4,520= £15,820
Have I missed something here ??? thanks.
Tell us about the meter collar fires and the high failure rates! We are all ears! 😂
Just want a single 20kw battery for my home only have space for 1 battery on my outside wall I think ill be waiting for Powerwall 5 or 6 maybe.
You can buy 400ah lifepo4 cells from a reputable vendor, that will get you 20kwh backup
Typo at 4:24
Is one of those a Powerwall 3 and one a Powerwall 3 "expansion unit"?
The expansion packs aren’t available in the UK yet. Due out next year. Here we have 2, full Powerwall 3 units.
Both are Powerwall 3's, Scott. Expansion packs should be available in 2025.
The Powerwalls will always have an innate disadvantage. Every powerwall you buy, comes along with an inverter. For two powerwalls, you do not need two inverters at 2x the cost, when a 2x bigger inverter will only cost you something around 1.2x the smaller inverter. If Tesla comes out with a new dumb powerwall which doesn't have an inverter, which is also about 30-40% of the total powerwall cost, it's adoption rate will increase.
I have a battery backup system, and it comes with a single large inverter and has 50kWh usable, which during emergencies and powercuts, can last more than a week for us, and getting an equivalent pw3 system would have been crazy expensive.
Tesla has “Expansion Packs” for this exact situation. They are a little cheaper than the full PW3. They add capacity not continuous output
How do i install it in a van build?
Interesting how they've overbuilt the system for the trough of power generation. That's what RethinkX has suggested the entire grid do with solar, wind, and batteries.
Any tariffs on Chinese batteries in the UK?
No mention of payback period ie total cost including installation divided by annual saving on the lectric bill. I would guess 10 years - but what is it actually?
That’s relative to your normal power bill and how the unit is utilized
@@phenom354Mine was ~20 years in the US, smaller house, 2 people.
Ran the numbers on an installation of this with enough solar to make it useful, and can’t make it work economically. Seems much better to use NG backup genie with grid electric. Like the idea, can’t justify the cost.
My next EV will have to be able to do V2H
Forget Solar in a British winter, when the average energy produced from say 8-10 panels on a dismal Dec-Feb day could give you as little as 5Kwh.
2 Powerwall 3's filled up with 27 Kwh of overnight 7p per Kwh electric, fed into a Heat Pump with a COP of 3-4.
A 20 year investment.
Do the Maths!
My aunt and uncle have had solar for about 12 years in South Wales which is very wet and rainy, and they have generated thousands of kwh's per year, they broke even many years ago.
It's not just about money!
But how to you get rid of that Musky odor?
Why, are you wanting to silence him, take it you are one of the people who want to silence anyone who disagrees with your view point which ironically would make you the fascist/right wing extremist, who presumably as a left winger is the thing you abhor. Odd that, you become so left wing that you turn full circle. Everybody must be controlled, everyone must agree with me or else, everyone must be controlled by government. Suggest you read Animal Farm
If only the Powerwall 3 was backwards compatible with the Powerwall 2. We have a Powerwall 2 and want to addd a second one. For some reason, it is not possible to add a Powerwall 3 to an existing Powerwall 2. Instead, we have to buy two Powerwall 3s and sell or scrap off the Powerwall 2. Not great, especially as production of the Powerwall 2 is now stopping.
Every time you switch off a coil, or any magnetic field for that matter, the collapsing magnetic field generates a pulse (Back EMF), which has been thrown away until now, but it can be recovered. The pulses (voltage only, which can exceed hundreds of volts) can be collected in a capacitor bank and returned back to the batteries, as voltage. There's plenty of research and products, just waiting to be incorporated into existing motors and generators.
Usage 11 kWh per day? Hot days in Summer for me is 35kWh ish
Where do you live? 35kWh sounds like you're running A/C which is very uncommon in the UK. My 3 bedroom house in southern England runs at about 11kWh per day.
Have you heard of reflective insulation and awnings ?
@@JeremyParsonshave you heard of 100 deg f days with 90% humidity?
No it's not 11kWh. It's 11kW. Meaning it's so powerful that even if fully charged, it can drain itself in about 1 hour even with its big battery. It's got power!
I have learnt something new in the video - Imogen is 5'4.5" in old money!
TPW3 is an impressive piece of kit but the GivEnergy 13.5Kw all in one is £2k cheaper. Is the TPW3 worth the extra £2k per TPW3 (I am guessing that there is a discount for installing 2 or more so it might be £3-3.5k for 2 TPW3 installation)
The PW3 can provide much higher peak and continuous output as mentioned in the vid which would explain price differences. Apparently you'll be able to bolt on a second cheaper PW3 without an inverter if you only need the storage capacity.
And, yes, Imogen is indeed an impressive piece of kit. Oh, wait, sorry, I misread your comment.
@@spiritusinfinitus outside of countries that need aircon, what level of continuous power should we actually need though. UK needs might, and probably are, very different to US needs, if we take a typical UK house use of 11 kw per day add in a heat pump and a bit of spare capacity, do we really need continuous power output of 10 KwH or would 6-7 be perfectly adequate? [for clarity I do not know the answer, this is a genuine question]
@@justinstephenson9360 Take gas out of the equation and use electricity for heating and hot water and you can easily blast through 11 kW per day. I used to live in a flat that was way more than that. If you have a couple of electric showers and instant undersink heaters (and assume no room to fit a hot water tank inside) I think most people vastly underestimate their actual peak usage when specifying these systems and many end up disappointed, but more often than not won't say that because of the cognitive dissonance caused by spending tens of thousands of pounds on a system!
@@spiritusinfinitus And that is why I asked what do we need if we take 11 Kw (which is across an entire day not 11 KwH) as the normal usage then ADD in something for a heat pump as the heating and hot water and then a margin for error do we need 11 KwH continuous usage or would 6 KwH continuous usage be sufficient take into account potential peaks for example when someone puts the kettle on!
2:40 Givenergy all in one is 13.5 kwh too
Exactly my first "huh" in this video as I'm currently looking at the givenergy set up. My second huh was the amount of electricity this guy needs and wants to be off grid in the city centre. Each to their own, but seems like an extra cost when you get cheap night tariffs.
Several other details weren't quite right either, powerwall 2 was same size energy storage for example. They made it sound like this was more 🤷 @@colinwiseman
If you have a ground source heat pump you need at least 50kwh to be useful.
@@colinwiseman Yeah new Hybrid AIO looks wicked
Absolutely not, a SCOP of 4 would mean that's 200kwh of heat a daye- very large or leaky house@@rogerphelps9939
GivEnergy All in One is 13.5kwh as well please check your facts or it makes you sound biased to a manufacturer. LFP is great but again the GivEnergy is also LFP. Dont get me wrong PW3 looks a great bit of kit but please remain unbiased.
£7,800 seems really high, even with the discount. Worth shopping about a bit
Yep and too expensive in OZ too, even though we have more sunshine
Agreed. I reckon the cost of owning it is 17 pence per kwh over a 15 year life, so you would struggle to get your money back at current import/export differentials. Currently only a green play.
It includes a 10kw inverter..
@@Zarphag £7,800, with the discount, is high compared to other installers. I've seen it going for £7,600. Joju seem to be selling it as standard for £8,100.
@@JasmineDulcie idk not in the UK so that price isnt really relevant to me
the best battery solution is that is installed in the DC side without Ac/dc conversion.
Unless have PV on an old FiT. You don't want to mess with that!
Givenergy have a tesla3 beater coming this winter or early spring! The All-in -one2
It is a brilliant product the new AIO.
-Tok
Thanks for a wonderful informative video and great specifications now for the third version of the Tesla Powerwall - except for 130 Kg weight and the price of needing two of them and the gateway/transfer switch installation fees to get any off-grid capacity and no compatibility with the previous versions of the Powerwall. It is also a pity that previous Tesla Powerwall version look so bad relatively now and that the price of the complete installation was too high to be mentioned in this video and that also excludes the additional solar PV installation cost.
I love Tesla, I love Elon Musk but they took a long time to learn about the advantages of Lithium Iron Phosphate cells and these prices are much higher than a simple 48 V self-build battery (less than BP 3000). I suggest that people needing power when the grid goes down might be better off focusing on just a subset of loads with no power peaks to isolate onto a separate consumer unit.
Doesn't have a generator input like most other battery systems.
Why are these last Imogen videos not disclosed as the ads which they obviously are?
All products on the market are covered equally over time.
Great questions, very clear. Tx
Your facts are wrong Giv Energy also do a 13.5 kwh all in one
You said the earlier batteries were perfect, was that a lie.
11 kWh per day in an average household?
If you live in a multistore apartment complex I can believe that, but no way for a standalone household. Even in the summer months (Scandinavia) in a small apartment with a FTX heatpump I would be around double that amount.
yes, my year round averge is 26kWh/day with peak in Winter of around 40-45kwh/day [Dunedin]; so just kept adding panels and batteries to bring the system up to maximize no grid
@@Leopold5100 The problem you'll have is solar production is poor in the winter, so to power your home and heatpump with panels and battery requires a system that's way too big in the summer. If you lived somewhere warmer, then it's summer cooling you need (I'm sure you'll use your heatpump for AC a few times in summer on warm NW days), solar and AC go together much better.
In places like Switzerland with a 3 phase grid tesla powerwalls are a bad solution. And they are a mess to install but they look nice...
Function trumps looking nice every time in my book.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б yes almost all houses have a 3 phase grid. Standard houses have 25A apartments have 20A. If you have a heat pump it's more. It's hard to say in kWh since that's power over time.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б well if you want you can order more power as an example a friend has a small house but a 63A connection. On the other hand it's mostly cheaper to use a sort of power management, if you have enough time to charge your EV it's no problem.
To your second question sure that would be possible but what for? There are rules about fire security with lithium ion batteries but beside that I don't know a reason why it shouldn't be allowed.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б there almost no state incentives for buying a EV and most people rent their apartments, which leads to no charging infrastructure because the landlord does not have to install a charger.
@@денисбаженов-щ1б wind power would be a great source of energy in Switzerland, we build a lot of solar, it's already around 10% of our needs, we are also a net exporter of electricity. It would make sense to push EVs, the problem lies more with the states and communitys, because no one wants to be responsible. So some places give incentives for charging infrastructure and EVs some don't. To the H2 that's in my opinion not worth doing, but we will see what the future brings.
That's NOT an oversized system.
That's the system people should expect.
Full off grid freedom from power gougers.
Agree that the label is wrong as it is just layperson speak for "your inverter has lower peak capacity than your solar array" - way too many folk with tiny solar arrays when in reality the marginal cost of extra panels always makes going as large as you can the most cost effective option.
@@michaelwinkley2302 Indeed. People should read up on the 'Inverter Loading Ratio', or ILR.
@@michaelwinkley2302 you speakum the truth
Except the price gougers have lobbied government to make sure we still pay standing charge or tax as it should be called.
When does it produce less carbon?
PW3 doesn't have 3phase support > not for my house
Hopefully the three phase version is coming late next year! We’ve had a lot of enquiries about it.
-Tok
With batteries at £100/kw, thats a serious markup. Theres alway BYO
Absolutely. Actually the battery price is now around $50 per kwh so Tesla are racketeering on their name.
Not talking about cost......
This is only for those with a very nice bank account.
And they should do it.
Joju gave me a ridiculous quote, they must realise they're not competitive? Installers are doing it for £7500-8000, and Joju quoted me £11500 lol. I hope they've realised.
How much does a full system like that, solar panels, 2 batteries etc currently cost including installation.
With 2x Powerwall 3 batteries and a relatively large solar system, you’re looking at a minimum of £18k from a reputable installer.
-Tok
@@spiritenergy_uk What would the pay back time be on it all.
No, the best battery is the 100kWh DIY LiFePO4 pack powering my off-grid house.
Fully agree. A battery is just a battery and not so difficult to scale up and install.
It's definitely for people who don't do DIY.
Does anyone manufacture a system that uses Sodium-ion batteries?
The fact that Sodium-ion batteries are much heavier than Lithium-ion really doesn't matter for stationary storage, and the materials are cheaper.
Their voltage range do not match current inverters of 48v. You’ll not be able to charge them all the way, over time the drift will cause issues. This would require inverters to increase their voltage range, or the industry needs to come out with 60v inverter and panel. The solar industry however decided to increase amps rather than volts, I doubt sodium batteries will catch on for homes in current configuration.
@@asderven That's absolute nonsense, if you need a battery to have a particular voltage then you can design that into the battery whilst designing the battery you're going to build, regardless of whether it's a sodium-oin battery or a lithium-oin battery.
@@matthewbaynham6286 I didn’t get my point across. Sodium batteries are 2v to 4v per cell, with a nominal 3.1v. Let’s assume you need 16 cells to make a nominal 48v battery. Max voltage = 16 x 4 = 64v. Minimum voltage = 2v x 16 = 32v.
The inverter presently works between 42v and 60v.
When the inverter sees the battery is 60v, it will stop charging. If the battery hits 42v it will stop discharging.
Does that make better sense about how components are mismatched?
Solar panels shifted from 12A to 14A~18A about three years ago, most hybrid inverter companies have not revamped their models until now. 2025 march is the next hope, but if the don’t, they won’t.
Compared to that, sodium lithium batteries are even less of a concern for them. That is why at present it is hard to make them work.
Bms can be tweaked, but this would only happen in the diy space. No company would issue settings for a sodium battery until they are sure. Expect a minimum of 4-8 years before sodium lithium cells catch on. By that point, the battery technology should have fundamentally started to change, negating the use of sodium batteries.
Tesla batteries are ridiculously overpriced. The price seems to be well above £500 per kwh but batteries are now around $50 per kwh. Even allowing for the interface electronics Tesla is laughing all the way to the bank. I have a Skoda Enyaq with an 80kwh battery. The basic price of these is around £40k so that is £500 per kwh with a car thrown in. It does not have V2L or V2G but very soon any EV worth its salt will have V2L or V2G as standard and in order to commpete Tesla will have to cut its prices drastically or exit the market.
The skoda will be losing money, guaranteed.
@@philipashton6657 So will the Tesla battery. So will all EVs. So will all ICE cars. Your point? I really don't care because I bought new and will be using it until it falls apart which will be a lot longer than for most ICE cars.
My point is that it is not a sustainable business model. What are you going to do for spare parts when they eventually shelve their money losing strategy? Tesla vehicles actually do make a profit, and it is largely due to their manufacturing techniques. Ok, they are expensive at the moment, but they are across the board value for what you are paying. There is a reason that the model y is the best selling car in the world.... EVs are bringing about the demise of the old way of doing vehicle business. Service and spare parts were the vast majority of a car companies profits. They push hybrids on us for this fact alone.....
Old auto needs to change its mind set, or they will go out of business. It is an expensive transition. Capitalism dictates they need to make a profit, or lose stock market value and likely go out of business. Catch 22....
I’ve done nothing but research this past month and looked at all options at least twice, read spec sheets, spoke to installers, watched videos and talked to a few owners of other batteries. The Tesla is a bit more expensive (in my case to the tune of £2k) but it is head and shoulders above everything else.
How can Tesla build the best powerwall when they don't use their own battery cells in them?
They need their own batteries for their vehicles.
@@evilutionltdthey also use CATL in some of their cars
@@colinwiseman Which is ultimately problematic to sustain their future
Tesla don'y use their own batteries in anything. They just commission the likes of Panasonic and CATL to make them.
The cells are only part of the Powerwall, it's the battery management system electronics and software that can make a big difference along with the VPP option (Virtual Power Plant) that Tesla often offers.
11kWh per day for a household sounds quite high for the UK. Perhaps with a heat pump and EV charging on top, yes.
But maybe ditch the tumble dryer for wind and or a dehumidifier.
My average is 13kWh a day, with family, my baseload is 5kWh a day. So not far-fetched.
@@hmsq82😮 family of 4, we are at 6kWh a day average. Including a Hyundai Ioniq charging
It sounded like he was running an engineering company from home. That would include loads like powerful PC and servers
@@MatthewBayard yes, could be. 👌🏻
400 W continuous, doesn't sound that high. Unless all the heating and cooking is with gas...
I currently have 30kw of battery and 3-phase supply. Does this mean I need 3 Powerwall 3's?
3, 2, 1 Teslas run on diesel now.
£8k for 13.5kWh? Why wouldn't you use an old 24kWh Leaf at half the price? - and you can drive it
All that dc to ac and back seems such a waste. Like if dc comes from solar and then ends up also a dc in Tv , computer or led bulbs.
Are there any similar products not associated with Elon Musk?
Givenergy same price same size same function.
Of course therer are. cheaper and better but still doomed when V2G and V2L becomes common.
There are over 140,000 Tesla employees, about 90% are Democrats.
@@Lewis_StandingTesla is miles better then Giv AIO
Tesla is over, for me at least. Not even for free, I have values. Without ethics, humans have no place in this planet. Look into Panasonic Evervolt residential batteries. There's also a line of residential batteries from BYD US, but I'm not sure they are already selling it. Look also into Sonnen, LG Chem, and Duracell.
I'd have been all over this but seeing that my money would be going to a man who sees fit to jump and dance around on stage with Trump is just a no go now.
So, how many residential sakes does Dan Miszewski-Hall drink in a week?
Cute
The Powerwall is a great, great battery that very few homeowners can afford. Powerwalls are ok for the richest 1 or 5%. But their excessive price, over $1,000 US per kWh installed, is actually hurting the climate because it is inhibiting the wider adoption of green energy. To go all electric and to free homeowners from corrupt electricity cartels (many are pretty horrid), the average home will need 20-50 kWh of storage. Bill Gates can afford that.
Next, a fully electric house will need 2 or 3 or 4 Powerwalls or their equivalent to stay energy independent with a fully electric home.
Again, I would love to have a few Powerwalls. But given rising prices for everything, having enough home battery storage to have an all electric hime is currently a pipe dream for 90 plus percent of homeowners.
THANKS IMOGEN🤗 for sharing the latest from TESLA🔋🔋🔋
Solid state batteries for domestic use is going to be the big game changer in a few years time, I think I'll hold out until then.
Why? Power density and weight aren't particularly important for static storage. Price and longevity are.