Vertical Bifacial Solar Panel Performance Results Part 1: ruclips.net/video/5AVO1IyfA9M/видео.html Find Bifacial Solar Panel sources and discounts on my website: projectswithdave.com/solar-panels/ Donate towards a future project - THANK YOU!! projectswithdave.com/donations/give/ US made Bifacial Solar Panels: signaturesolar.com/12-87kw-pallet-sirius-pv-415w-bifacial-solar-panel-assembled-in-texas-elnsm54m-hc-415-up-to-539w-with-bifacial-gain-full-pallet-31-solar-panels-12-87kw-total-pallet/?ref=SALE
Those are not "US Made" panels, they are ASSEMBLED in US made from imported parts. US Made has a legal definition to be made from parts manufactured within the USA which these do not.
The problem with the bifacial system with reflectors is that solar panels are designed to operate with equal light all over its surface and having extra light at the bottom doesn’t produce more power and may prematurely age the panels.
Your video here has some very interesting things that could probably prove some interesting results. you mentioned using a different style of reflector where the light could be diffused. Techingredients could help there, but IDK if you would want to go thru the process. He has a video on super reflective paint. I want bifacial panels over metal roofing that's painted with a super reflective paint to increase output. The idea that using diffused light on the other side of the panel to reduce hot spots is genius!
@@arloalps6215 it will still hit the bottom of the panel stronger than the top. Also, higher up in the air, bi facial panels become even more like a sail and most roofs aren’t designed for those kinds of loads.
Try orca reflective film. It's white in colour but is @90-95% reflective. It is also slightly tougher than standard mylar. It is used by people who grow hydroponic indoors.😊 They tend to want something that is highly reflective and tough.
I agree. The film comes in 52" wide, 100' long. 2 or 3 rows (104" or 156"**) should create a lot of reflected light, and being diffused light, the film can be laid at just enough of an angle to drain water. No shading the the bottom in the early morning. Also extend it beyond the film 3 or 4 feet to the north and south. ** When the weather is predicted to be nice 3 days in a row (I'm in San Diego - so I may be asking the impossible) Lay down one row of film, then measure the daily output. Second day, the second row, third day, third row to see where diminishing returns occur. I would expect 3 rows will improve early morning production most, but significantly improve noon as well.
The Action Lab youtube channel has several videos using White 2.0, which is claimed to be the world's brightest white paint. However, I don't think that's necessary. I expect any brilliant white paint should work well, and it's better to minimize cost than eke out a few percent improvement in light reflection. My main concern is degradation in sunlight. Mylar apparently breaks down in UV, so it's not a good long-term product. Whatever film, coating, or paint that's used should be durable and naturally stay clean.
I’ve been doing this for a few years already with my standard panels as well as the first bifacials, but it’s much more consistent to use opaque white instead of something super reflective/specular like the Mylar that you used. The opaque white gathers and spreads more evenly across the entire array plus you won’t add any additional reflective heat from the super reflective surface as well as hot spots that can develop from the Mylar not being totally flat where the white reflection also spreads to wider angles.
Makes a lot of sense since mylar not only reflects visible light but also a good portion and amount of IR (and maybe some of some other spectrum like some UV?) whereas opaque white will mostly just reflect the visible light, and as you said, more diffusely so (less concentrated hot spots). Good tip.
I was thinking orca reflective film - it's used by hydroponic guys 😊 - it's white rather than mirror like but 90 - 95% reflective and tougher than standard myler.
I’m not an engineer but a small vertical gap between the posts and a horizontal gap between the panels would lower the probability of wind damage without significantly adding to the size of the array. I really like the consideration that a reduction in peak exposure would lengthen the useful life of the panel as well. Thanks for sharing your research.
The lengthened useful life is actually because this orientation is more effective at keeping the solar panels cool, since air is able to flow up both sides.
I think you are right about the vertical gap. If you are using these panels for a privacy fence you might offset a standard wood panel or post behind or in front of that gap to allow wind to flow around and through it while still blocking the view.
"holes" in fencing to mitigate wind pressure tend not to work as desired until you reach something approaching 50% gap space, like snow-drift fencing. If the gaps are not large, it can actually increase the effect of wind because of the vortices which come into play. A completely gap-free fence has the benefit of building up a bubble of high-pressure air in front of it, which is actually 'vaguely' aerodynamic. Alleviating that pressure pocket can in effect make that pressure bubble more flattened/blunt in shape... If you're really worried about wind, then some snow-drift fencing off to the sides could help reduce the wind speed that hits the solar panel. (would block some rays right at dawn and dusk though). Also orienting the panels so they are less tall (but a longer wall of them) would be dramatically more wind resistant. Would make the needed size of reflector material much narrower too.
Being off grid I’ve found early morning and late afternoon is my nemesis, so I added 6 panels to the east and 6 to the west. With 18 I already had facing south. This was a huge benefit, that extra early morning power when you are on fumes made a big difference and the west panels kept the pack full all the way to sunset even running loads. Giving me basically 4 extra hours of useable sun. Not high output, but badly needed output at the right moment. Which helps me use a smaller battery pack to get me through
@@ProjectsWithDave It’s a balancing act. Once I added the panels for critical timing, I was able to only need 4 48v rack batteries instead of 6. Was able to then use the other 2 rack batteries to build a system for my RV which I can just connect to in the event of a short fall in the home system.
I had done a similar setup but mine is more like a half circle, but that was before and later I upgrades to solar tracking mounts. Just automatic left to right for daily tracking with a manual up and down for different angles during the year I need to just like 4 times a year.
@@ProjectsWithDave kinda more like, why am I running on battery 3 hours after sunrise and 3-4 hours before sunset, at 20-30 cents per watt that last for 30 years solar panels are way the wise investment compared to batteries that may last 10 years or less.
@@SSingh-nr8qz u shape is ideal really, straight line panels are for grid tie tidy setups, a true off grid setup will have panels everywhere to catch sun whenever it can so long as space permits.
A cheap alternative for keeping birds off your panels is fishing string. I attached a couple of rods on the top of each end of the panels, and ran fishing string a few inches above the span of the panels (similar to barbed wire above a fence). Tie some small strips of fabric to the string every few feet and it gives a visual deterramce in the breeze. Havent had a single bird land in a couple years, and when the string goes bad, ill simply replace it.
I dont even have a house for solar, but the amount of work and detail you put into this video is amazing...watched the entire thing just because your presentation was on point.
I have discovered with my bi-facial panels that highly reflective material like the mylar you were using will give you greater gains when used from about 10 feet away from the panels. The ambient light they reflect when very close to the panels like you had them also reflect a lot of heat which will negate many times any gains you get. Move the reflective material away and you will notice a greater gain.
One of the big benefits of your East/West facing array is that your Solar panels are producing power when you need/use it most. For example: If you live in the South, you typically have your highest energy demand in the late afternoon when your Air Conditioning is working hardest to overcome the heat of the day. The opposite is true in the North during the Winter months, where people are heating their homes in the early morning hours due to the colder overnight temperatures. Consequently, not only are your vertical panels providing energy when it is needed most, but any Solar panels mounted in an East, or West, direction will more closely match the actual energy usage of a typical home. As a side note, if you have an Off-Grid Solar system, it would be beneficial to have a few more panels mounted facing East, or vertical, to get your battery bank charged up quicker in the mornings. This would also help get your battery bank charged on cloudy days.
If you live off grid you will need a battery that can last multiple days without significant solar input. In that case South may be your best orientation to maximize your production for the day.
As soom as you have a battery optimization for (winter) overall energy beats everything. South facing panels that are perpendicular to the sun at noon in the winter will be best. The minimal loss of energy in the summer doesn't matter because in summer there is always enough of it.
@@ProjectsWithDave really if you live off grid your battery system should be configured with multiple Inputs like 1 or 2 wind turbines in conjunction with a solar array coupled with a hydroelectric water diversion turbine from you main water source. With diesel or gas generator as backup.....
@@ProjectsWithDave that's the opposite of the path I chose for my system. We drastically overpanneled our system to have enough to power our modest home on thick cloudy winter days, and dump excess into long-term thermal storage during the rest of the year. Of course we like to be really cool (60s) so the high panneling helps in summer too.
The thing with vertically oriented panels is the heat is better shed than angled panels. Vertical bifacial panels as fencing bypasses the whole can of worms with roof installation...
I saw another person using mirrors on a Bifacial similar to this and he found as he pulled the mirror back about 3-4 feet away it put the most light onto the solar panel, he gained about 60 watts on the Bifacial side. The negative with extreme reflected light is the solar panel got very hot 150+F .
You're absolutely correct that nobody talks about how easily you cook your panel. I use water from a stream that's pipe down a hill that cools my solar array that I'm currently playing with. The reflected light from the mirrored surfaces have completely fried panels.
I think that this had a lot to do with the Mirrors reflecting the IR light (HEAT!) as well. Somnething like the "Orca Film" described by other commentors might be the trick, as it was designed to only reflect the visible spectrum, and in a very diffuse manner, at that.
Great tests! You mentioned diffuse reflectors may be a better option and I agree. Aluminized foils can fail to reflect 30% or more of the light that hits them, whether it directly absorbs or just passes through the foil. A good ultrawhite paint can be 90%+ reflective, though the diffuse reflection means much of the light will miss your panel. Of course having multiple surrounding panels would help to catch some of it. Simply spraying the ground with chalk may have an impressive temporary effect.
Installed 3 500W vertical bifacial panels in Ontario Canada, used 4’ deck screw anchors and 8020inc strut as the mounts. Winter is coming, will see what the snowless panels will produce. Note in winter a panel with no snow will out produce a snow covered panel every time.
This. In winter snow climates, snow is the enemy. Often, roof mounted panels get wind drifted snow on them. Wind drifted snow is THICK and DENSE. Winter cloudy days with snow covered panels = zero solar production. Mid latitude Canada, the winter sun angle is about 9 degrees from vertical. Vertical or nearly vertical panels will absolutely maximize snow shedding and therefore solar production during the worst sun months. In summer, a vertical panel facing south will be maxed out anyway, so plan for the winter snow. Stay gold.
Thanks for all of your hard work! I know that time, real effort, and a love of knowledge are behind your videos… I can feel it! Thank you and know that you are informing people and helping them to enrich their own lives. You are a true American.
@@ProjectsWithDaveButt, how far has One gone to BYPASS the middle-men Re-sellers. ALSO, has much to do with specific country of origin the products come from.
@@cmbaz1140there's no local manufacturing of solar panels all of them come from China or are repackaged to make them look American. Chinese panels are top of the line, but taxed heavily in Canada and US.
The depth of the engineering work you're doing, and the enthusiasm you display for it, is inspiring not just for me as a fellow mechanical engineer, but also for the next generation! Here's a suggestion for another analysis: We built a 38-panel DIY bifacial grid-tied ground mount. We did some backyard science trying different tilt angles before building it out, and found better performance for surprisingly high tilt angles up to 45deg. We covered the front-side with cardboard one day, and noticed higher output from the back-side component vs. 32deg which is standard in our area (northern Vermont near Canada). We did the same on a snowy day and saw even more. We chickened out on going 45deg, but ended up at about 42deg. The generation has been good for 2 years, and we've noticed way better snow-sliding performance with the higher tilt. After every snow, our panels slide well before many conventional ground mounts in our town. This really helps that bifacial power surge on sunny days after fresh snow. So my suggestion is to build a ground mount test rig with adjustable tilt angle and evaluate bifacial tilt angles (including a low tilt reference) across the seasons. I think you might find the results surprising....we sure did!
To deter birds from perching on your solar panels, run strong fishing line, tight, about 2.5 inches above the tops (left to right) of the panels. This way, birds can't get their center of gravity squarely above the panel, making it uncomfortable to perch. This works very well on my balcony railing.
I would think plastic fishing line would keep stretching over time, requiring somewhat frequent tension adjustment. Has someone tried piano wire or rust resistant fishing leader wire? These too, will stretch over time but it should be a quite a lot longer between tension adjustments. They're also UV proof, not just UV resistant. I think bronze wire would be too "stretchy"
@@exgenica My fishing line is not actually stretched really tight. But it is the upper strenght stuff, I think 30 to 50 lbs rated monofilament line, thick and clearly visible. It is not eleastic and absolutly won't stretch out.
THIS. Every farm around here has a FENCE. (SW Ontario). How much would a long string of bifacial panels cost and what's the utility if THEY'RE NOT TAKING UP AGRICULTURAL SPACE?
In many areas, solar panels are a great item to STEAL for extra cash. Just bring along a battery powered drill and zipp zipp you've lost your fence and your solar!
@@KWifler What areas are you talking about? Here in Germany I've never heard of such behavior. It seems like legit für reagions where powersupply is not good and people ened to use diesel generators, which is expansive.
it would be cool to see a power vs land use statisic. How much Power is produced by a specific ammount of landuse for any kind of power production. Maybe it also could also show the landuse including the production factories and mining pits.
Saving land may not be worth it. Most crops require loads of sunlight, that they now won't get as they are shaded by panels. So what crop will you grow now that does not need light? Mushrooms?
@@jonasmadsen8535 well you got a point, but for example Winds erode the surface of the field and can harm the plants. It needs to be looked at. Overhead solar is realy good for potatoes for example, but that is not the vertical one, so lets not Look at this. Vertical pv can be installed on farms with cows or chickens for example
i took it more as panel density but now i realise of course, it matters how you pack them so that they don't sit in each other's shade i think a series of tests looking at the energy/area output for a full array would be interesting, since it may be easier to pack more solar panels than to find more land
Vertical panels also don’t see as much heating so they should last longer. Crops between rows of vertical panels also shouldn’t be too affected because they still get the mid day sun.
My principal thought for vertical east/west bifacial panels is that usually a south facing array makes power between (solar) 10am and 2pm and more energy harvest means more current meaning bigger control gear. With an E/W facing panel the energy harvest is not at peak times so a smaller controller could do BOTH jobs.
For the wind issue consider mounting the panels with an offset pivot. This will allow them to swing and dump the wind pressure. But the offset balance point would return them to vertical when calm. This can also make the panel horizontal(er) during the day when daytime heating starts creating some wind.
It's a very good idea - I like it. But a consequence will be repeated stressing of the electric cables - and you wouldn't want fatigue failures in those. And (thinking further and to minimise cable movement) the connection points for the cables from one panel to the next will need to be near the pivots. But seems worth a try-out.
@@falfield just put a stress-loop near the pivot... and use your best, highest comductor-count wire there. We've been bending conductors for a lonnnng time.
putting a mirror setup underneath the south facing panels would probably be a great idea, it'll reflect light at the back of the panels and won't have any shadow problems.
You can use large print outs of birds of prey (ones that are local to the area you live in) and the birds will stay away. IE- Large owls, hawks, eagles, etc.
Try "A" frames east and west. Angle depends on your location the angle. You could flatten the curve / optimize production and still take up less relesate.
The reflectors are nullifying one of the advantages of the vertical bifacial setup, which uses virtually zero land area. If you already increase the used land area, then you could also angle them slightly (I would put them 75° or so from flat, which would use a quarter of the area that the two reflectors do. Not to mention that the ground would only be periodically obstructed by posts, instead of permanently shaded). And to get even better power production in the 3 hours after sunrise/ before sunset (and improve the winter performance at the cost of summer performance) you could face half of the panels each +-75° or so from south, instead of +-90° from south. The combined effect of both angle changes would also miss-align the front and back face's dips (which used to overlap at 12:00) into two dips, one around 10:00 and one around 2:00, which should give you a similar 50% improvement compared to straight west and east facing panels, the same amount that the reflectors did. I don't think you can fully optimize the power production without taking advantage of the fact that the front face gives you 50% more power than the back face.
😂like idk why i didn't even think of this. I'm getting a portable and I know im gonna put her through her paces..thst unfortunately means she'll be prone to delamination 😢 so i know ill be opting to use morning light and this will definitely help a tonne!
His data showed that mirrors help, but only when compared to other fixed direction panels. They aren't anywhere near as efficient as having a panel aimed right at the sun. The camera in my cell phone can pick out faces to focus on. So the logic behind using a simple light sensor to determine the direction of the sun and aiming panels at it is a no-brainer. A couple of stepper motors with a gear drive should do all the aiming throughout the day. Heck, you could even add a simple logic chain to determine when to orient them vertically (ie: during snowstorms).
I just finished mounting my 460 w bifacial panels in East West vertical position and on partially cloudy day I am showing 500 watts per panel. This is amazing tech
Great solution for many installations. I like the photo of the different scenerios. Anti bird landing wire can be installed on panel tops to prevent the birds unless you want them to land there or give the birds alternate perches.
Now, set up reflection beds underneath the bifacial southfacing 30 degree panels and measure the boost. You can angle them to make the easier to place in a position to give fairly good boost but you may want to set up low side blinders to prevent light waste causing annoying glare for bystanders. A floating solar array on a pond with bifacial panels teathered to be south facing would also be a great experiment.
Came here to suggest this. I also think reflectors would simply be a boon, period. Especially for those who live in predominantly overcast and morning fog areas, like the Pacific North West/West Coast.
I live in a valley in the mountains,I made a system with one side on wheels, the other side is on a on a rotating bearing plate in the ground, allowing me to follow the sun, and I do use reflectors, and am able to move the panels to a vertical position..The improvements are off the charts..
From my limited understanding there's a curve where if you focus too much sun/heat on the panels that it can degrade performance and lifespan. Not sure at what point this becomes an issue though
Concentrated solar doesn't use photovoltaics but just generates heat to spin turbines like any other old fashioned energy source. I think it's an option for seriously large scales in desert-like environments, but there are huge efficiency losses in that process and can't really be compared to bifacial solar panels. Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding something which is always a possibility...
Yeah but that's brilliant if you could manufacture a small high output cells capable of taking focused light instead of fields upon fields. It's a good idea.
Thanks for giving us performance numbers! It is somewhat obvious it would improve production. Now, many warehouse roofs are painted white (and flat), but those should also improve performance over grass.
If the solar panels were hinged in the middle and could be rotated to be horizontal or vertical during the day, perhaps automatically, maximum solar efficiency could be achieved. 😊👍
Nice idea. Perhaps the concept could be extended into a Venetian blind structure to optimise collection without increasing the land use. They could be flattened to allow equipment to pass unobstructed as well. The added cost/complexity might have too much impact though. Worth exploring, I think.
You have absolutely earned a sub. You are so articulate and so grammatically perfect. It's so nice to hear somebody actually hold a conversation without using the word um, or saying uh a lot. Very great channel and content. Algorithm sends you videos that you watch my patootie!!! I've never seen a video of yours before.And I watch videos like this all the time. Better late than never!!!!
If I remeber correctly dave's in dave's solar panels the back solar panel can only produce 60% of what the front can. But I think newer biffacials have better biffaciality at like 80-90% and this will likely put them very very close to angled south facing arrays.
@@ProjectsWithDave For example this one HJT Bifacial Double Glass 680W 690Wp 700Watt Photovoltaic Solar Panel Module And also I found a paper where they tested a module and it had over 80% bifiaciality. Evaluation of the bifaciality coefficient of bifacial photovoltaic modules under real operating conditions If you google search for "bifiaciality 80%" you'll find much more
@@ProjectsWithDave It seems my replies are getting caught in a sppum filter. If you can't see my other reply search for bifaciality 80% and you will get results.
Thanks for the video! This is great information. I live in the suburbs of LA, about 20 miles inland, so no marine layer and very, very sunny. I have 36 x 400 watt roof top panels with 18 facing east, 4 facing south and 14 facing west and I make 94 kwh per day at summer solstice, which is 2.6 kwh per panel per day. It’s amazing to think that those vertical panels are making as much as my 30 degree panels are when they only see sun for half of the day and you’re further north, which should mean less total sun.
Interesting... Is that 2.6kWh an average for all 36 panels for the day? Standard E/W panels on a roof are not the best performers. I did some analysis on that in this video: ruclips.net/video/M-5qcmlMLSg/видео.html
Superb 👍 You made it 🎉. Also, a tip, make the reflector like a convex mirror by adding a curved plastic sheet under it, this will spread the light over a larger area of the panels and you can increase the distance between the reflector and array to remove the shadow. Also, you can make the reflector with white reflective paint on a curved plastic sheet, this will reduce the cost significantly.
glad to see this!! after your first video, I imagined setting up mirrors EXACTLY like this!! this would also be a good way to capture rain water for off-grid
Very interesting! A parabolic shape, some of that ultra white reflective paint and an elevation gap between the panel and reflector are all possible improvement points.
You know that your next step is a reflector system for the back side of your south facing bifacial panels right? Great and informative video! I know that a smart, smooth, always perfectly oriented sun tracking array is expensive and not financially worth it unless you have very limited space for your setup. So, what I would like to see is a "dumb" 3 position rotating ground mount test where they face at a vertical position east until 10 AM, then rotate in a single step to a south facing 30 deg angel until 4 in the afternoon where they then rotate to a west facing vertical orientation. I don't care if you used a bifacial or conventional array for the three position mobile array test... and I don't expect to see it any time soon... but I am subscribed in hopes of seeing it someday.
@@ProjectsWithDavehave you seen those sun tunnels people put in their homes to bring light in, small but it really brightens a room 🤔 wonder if this could be applied. This is round. The earth is round, just a thought, but can’t help but think trying round, curved, and spherical might be the answer. I am fascinated by how much the reflection increased the energy.
Main issue is price of bifocal panel... On average, they cost 1.5-2 times more - due to marketing costs while there is still an opportunity to buy a regular panel with a power of 580-620 watts for $120
@@HenriUA haha - well, yes, but that manufacturer sells everything with a big markup. all this is an overpayment for the manufacturer’s expenses on marketing. people are willing to pay a lot for something that is advertised beautifully Unfortunately, marketing is a modern evil, as is planned obsolescence.
One variable to consider is power produced vs. power needs throughout the day, winter vs. summer, with storage and without, etc. This is great data collection and design for experiment.
Yes finally someone sees the light of reflective panels! This setup can do so much for so many space uses. I wanted to do this and I'm glad you collected data too! I will need this and would like to use this video to pitch to development of my projects.
I’m trying to learn enough to start going solar ( W=VxA , was about about the extent of my knowledge so it’s been slow going) I really appreciate your videos because of your ability to provide valuable information without overwhelming this novice.
@@ProjectsWithDaveI too, just getting started, looking at solar off grid versus an $6000 dollar Generac plus install. I could see a small generator to top off a battery from solar on the off grid system.
Thanks for the great video, and for the work you do. To keep birds from perching on the tops of your vertical panels, you might try a spike strip. This is a square piece of lumber with nails in it. If your panel is 1" wide at the top, then get a 1x1 piece of lumber, drill pilot holes about every half inch down the length of it, and put nails (slightly bigger than the hole) through the holes, sticking up 1" to 4", depending on the size of the birds you need to repel. Then fasten the spike strip to the top of the panel - spikes up, of course. Hope this helps.
Great experiment! Like anything, you have to install based on your needs. The "ultimate" solution is to have several smaller arrays at optimized angles through the entire sun arc targeting when you need power.
So basically for a home it would be best to have some "normal" south facing panels and some east/west facing vertical bi-directional panels. Depending on the local power contracts you would generate a lot of energy in the middle pf the day with the "cheap panels". Additionally, you would harvest the early and late sun to charge up a battery and/or to just use the sun directly when you consume the most. Depending on each scenario, maybe something like 60% cheap normal and 40% bifacial vertical panels would be a hood mix. The difficult thing is probably to find the best solution for each home. Most people can't or don't want to place panels vertically in their garden.
Might I suggest, (im referring specifically to minute 13:00 ), considering you dont need a mirror type surface to reflect the light into the panels, you could potentially take your verticals from the grass area, to maybe somewhere like whats underneath your solar array to the side. very bright colored quartz like rock used for landscaping. has some glassiness, but will create a much brighter environment for the panels. looking forward to seeing your next video
Only ~1/3 of the way through the video so far- this is the first video I've seen from your channel, so it was a pleasant surprise to hear you're from Texas! Same with the Signature Solar mention- I've actually been interviewing with their sister company recently.
I'm very interested in using vertical South facing arrays to double as a privacy fence. A bit less performance is okay since the panels are doing double duty for me. I've seen interesting setups where greenhouses with reflective covering are used to boost the performance. The solar arrays are placed between greenhouses. And the sides are curved, which helps reflect through more of the solar arc and distribute across the panels versus flat reflective structures.
You could skirt this around your whole array, and if you're careful about drainage gaps, it could provide pretty decent weed suppression around and near the panels.
Good information, thank you. Interested white rock application on both positions. Flat vs. center mounding. Mylar is also easily conforms to different shape. Your right there is a lot of efficiency tuning available. Wish you the best of luck.
I put 4x100 watt flexible solar panels on my 34' CHB trawler, 2 vertical on the sides and two on the front of the flybridge, facing slightly up. Kept my 8 x 6volt batteries charged up and ran my old 12vdc fridge all day and well into the evening. The extra glare off the water definitely helped.
Off grid usually is designed for your worst weather conditions. I’m an electrician in Aus and have used Victron a lot. It’s great gear. I think the idea of having a lot of mppt set up over large areas like fence lines is a great idea with bi-Di panels. If there was a reflective material that mainly reflected optical and could filter the infra red that is a great option but if you can’t reduce the panel degradation from heat then the temperature coefficient and cost of replacement will decrease the viability of reflectors. Really interesting video. Subbed and liked because I found that really interesting
Mirrors are impractical in the summer if you live in warm area because you don't want to heat the panel (you're risking degradation), in the winter it can be useful.
Important to pay attention to potential unintended consequences of using mirrors, mylar, low e glass, etc. Reflections from home window coatings have melted/set fires to cars and vice versa (sun shades reflecting onto homes.)
Open areas of concrete give exceptionally good ambient reflection. (Snow cover does pretty much the same thing.) An east/west setup works very well in the middle of a concrete roof if you want even production throughout the whole day.
Hi dave I think your experiment is great but very sad to not see data on vertical single face facing south. So im very excited to see the vertical north/south data
Very cool testing. Yeah, would love to see the reflector test, but with something bright white like plain Tyvek wrap, white EPDM roof material, or white tin roof sheets.
I did a very simple experiment by connecting a volt meter to a open voltage 100w solar panel and started turning the panel towards the sun, then started tilting the panel to see where the highest voltage reading was, Needing a prop stick to hold the panel I set it flat on the ground to my surprise the over all position is to simply keep the panel Horizontal you get the best performance all day long , Of course this doe's not work well in the winter with the snow falling on them , I have yet to mount panels under the soffit of the house pointing downward and use the reflective light of the snow and even off the siding of the building . Food for thought .....................
First of all, thanks for doing this. The info is nice to have. Subbed. Next. A few ideas for you to ponder, maybe try. 1. Birds. I have a potential solution for them on the vertical panels. Get a long cylinder that is able to be attached to the top, and have it wrapped in some of that mylar. This surface will be very undesirable for them to stand on, and will help reflect some light back down to the bottom reflector at some angles. Just make sure the cylinder isn't too large, or it will create shade on the panels in the midday. This method should (ideally) keep the birds away, while not harming them, and possibly netting a positive result on power production; even if just a small one. 2. Set the panels on their long side instead, low to the ground, but not too low, since grass will become more of an issue if too low. The idea is simple. If you are getting less reflection hitting the top side, just make it so there isn't a top side. You could try to tune the angle of the reflector as well of course, and that will probably help regardless; but this will also help with the wind situation. Less of a vertical footprint so to speak. Still wider now at the low end, but wind breaks in well places areas that don't block the sun can help reduce that. (Look to bushes like Karagana. I probably spelled that wrong. It grows really easily, and shouldn't be considered invasive due to be being technically wild in N.America. Provides a nice wind break for farmers all over Saskatchewan for instance.) Also, the posts won't need to be as tall, saving on materials cost. PS. If ever testing rows, make sure to offset the row behind the most 'front' side row towards the rising sun. Not too high though, or you'll block the setting sun in reverse. You'll probably end up taking a loss on either side to some extent, but minimal and reasonably acceptable I think, if the offset is done just right... maybe?) 3. If you're going to test paint, go for the ultra white paints that cool the surface they are painted on due to the sheer reflectivity of their albedo effect. The cooling effect won't help the panels of course, but it will help keep the surface of the reflector from becoming a potential fire hazard if it gets hot enough. 4. Mylar actually was the right choice for something reflective that can be easily used by just about anyone. Mirrors have this nasty tendency to actually absorb some of that light. But, you might be right about needing that diffusion, which a glass style mirror probably would help with. But, now you're dealing with glass mirrors in potentially high wind situations. Seems like a bad idea. So maybe stick with the mylar, but try to find a way to adhere the mylar to the surface in a perfect or as perfect of a application of it as possible. Look to vinyl sign makers, or those car wraps, and how they use a squeegee to adhere the vinyl or wrap for guidance on this, i think. Also, instead of wood, as nice and cheap as it is to use when you can just recycle some old stuff... maybe try to find some sort of aluminum plate that can be made and sold to you. You could use the same mounting hardware mostly then, perhaps with a few new screw holes tapped in, just the metal frame jutting off at the bottom will be at an angle instead of course. This will help with the wind somewhat too maybe, perhaps. The angle of the reflectors should help redirect some of that wind under the panels, maybe. And if they get bent over at their ground point, the reflector is the first thing to take any damage on the back end hitting the ground first. Looking at the clip of the other installers reflectors, looks like they had similar thoughts on the attachment side of things. Perhaps maybe not the wind aspect as much. 5. Similar to the bird proposition, put some of those cylinders on the sides as well as the top; and also the bottom. Any light you can reflect potentially back towards the panels will be ideal I think, and any that gets reflected back to the reflector will hopefully make its way towards the panel as well. The combined effect of all of them, will probably not be a huge increase in performance, but if it even helps adjust that curve by 1% overall, that's 1% more for the sum. Again, not too large of cylinders, or you'll get unwanted shadows. 6. The heat coming up off those panels might be enough to create enough of a draft to get those mini roof top and mountain side helix vane style wind turbines to be of some use. Between cross winds and that draft, you could maybe get a couple set up per panel or two, to help increase the power output. But that's a big addition, that may not be worth the time and trouble. Hence why it's the last one, similar to 5, though 1 uses the same idea; but for a different purpose. Birds... of course they would love panels. They love power wires too.
Re birds perching: Run some taut fishing line @ 4 -5 inches above the top of the panel. We do it @ here to keep shorebirds off the deck railings of piers. No way for them to land. Works like a charm. Woops I see Keith from Iowa has the same suggestion!
Thanks Dave, great info. I'm especially interested because I'm setting up modules a little differently, let me explain. I have more modules than I need by design. What that does for me is give me more energy on overcast days in the winter when I need energy the most. This summer I replaced 24 modules with bifacials, my goal is to heat with PV and, like you, I have the land to do it. I just added another min-split (three in total) and as soon as the daylight hits I run all three to heat our house as much as possible before sundown. Modules that will get energy earlier in the day are more important then midday energy because the midday energy is more than enough to run the mini's. What I'm thinking about doing is taking the 24 modules I removed and use them vertically to get more morning and evening sun. Because it's such an easy install racking (back to back non-bifacial modules) would be minimal.
If you are installing panels vertically you need a very robust racking system. The one in this video was just temporary and not a long term solution. If you have extra modules and are just looking to improve your morning and evening performance this could be a good solution. However, direct E/W alignment does not do well in the winter, you may consider a tilted array with a steep angle and a SE and SW orientation. Play with the PVwatts calculator and make sure you are actually getting the winter gain you are looking for: pvwatts.nrel.gov/
I did a couple things that improved the efficiency of my off-grid array on a year-average basis. Extremely rural Wyoming, many miles from the nearest grid access. I had 4' wide south facing windows, which were great in the winter for helping to heat the house, but murderous heat radiators in the summer. By mounting panels at the top of each like visors, they served a dual purpose - shading the windows in the summer and producing power to boot, and in the winter, when the midday sun was lower, it shined in under the panels unimpeded, allowing maximum solar heating under them. ! also mounted panels on a tiltable table, which I adjusted on a monthly basis to get the most efficient angle for that particular time of year, tracking the mean angle of the sun for that period. Both of these measures helped significantly. The tilting table made between a 10 and 15% efficiency increase. I also mounted panels on the east and west side of the house vertically to catch that little advantage of early morning and late evening sun. It made a significant enough difference to justify the cost. I was going to experiment with reflectors, but I ended up moving back to civilization. I may be returning the the house soon, and, being in Wyoming, vertical panels don't seem too practical, due to extreme seasonal winds. As we all know in northern climes, clearing snow off panels is the single most annoying drawback to having them in general. I am considering a powered, roll-up tarp, much like an RV awning, to automatically cover them an night, and retract in the morning. We'll see... Thank you for all your work and insights, and I am sure your videos will spark ideas to improve my system.
I like the idea of getting white rocks and coating them in something white and highly reflective to put around the panels. they will act like snow or tiny mirrors redirecting light to the panels from the surrounding area.
Vertical Bifacial Solar Panel Performance Results Part 1: ruclips.net/video/5AVO1IyfA9M/видео.html
Find Bifacial Solar Panel sources and discounts on my website: projectswithdave.com/solar-panels/
Donate towards a future project - THANK YOU!! projectswithdave.com/donations/give/
US made Bifacial Solar Panels: signaturesolar.com/12-87kw-pallet-sirius-pv-415w-bifacial-solar-panel-assembled-in-texas-elnsm54m-hc-415-up-to-539w-with-bifacial-gain-full-pallet-31-solar-panels-12-87kw-total-pallet/?ref=SALE
Those are not "US Made" panels, they are ASSEMBLED in US made from imported parts. US Made has a legal definition to be made from parts manufactured within the USA which these do not.
The problem with the bifacial system with reflectors is that solar panels are designed to operate with equal light all over its surface and having extra light at the bottom doesn’t produce more power and may prematurely age the panels.
Your video here has some very interesting things that could probably prove some interesting results. you mentioned using a different style of reflector where the light could be diffused. Techingredients could help there, but IDK if you would want to go thru the process. He has a video on super reflective paint. I want bifacial panels over metal roofing that's painted with a super reflective paint to increase output. The idea that using diffused light on the other side of the panel to reduce hot spots is genius!
@@arloalps6215 it will still hit the bottom of the panel stronger than the top. Also, higher up in the air, bi facial panels become even more like a sail and most roofs aren’t designed for those kinds of loads.
So basically, a set of solar panels in one of those solar still things would be extremely efficent?
Try orca reflective film. It's white in colour but is @90-95% reflective. It is also slightly tougher than standard mylar.
It is used by people who grow hydroponic indoors.😊 They tend to want something that is highly reflective and tough.
I agree. The film comes in 52" wide, 100' long. 2 or 3 rows (104" or 156"**) should create a lot of reflected light, and being diffused light, the film can be laid at just enough of an angle to drain water. No shading the the bottom in the early morning. Also extend it beyond the film 3 or 4 feet to the north and south.
** When the weather is predicted to be nice 3 days in a row (I'm in San Diego - so I may be asking the impossible) Lay down one row of film, then measure the daily output. Second day, the second row, third day, third row to see where diminishing returns occur. I would expect 3 rows will improve early morning production most, but significantly improve noon as well.
I'm sure it pays itself off on the "vegetable" production
White acrylic paint is also a good simple solution with similar results.
Basically what I came to the comments to say. A flat piece of wood coated in reflective white paint would be great.
The Action Lab youtube channel has several videos using White 2.0, which is claimed to be the world's brightest white paint. However, I don't think that's necessary. I expect any brilliant white paint should work well, and it's better to minimize cost than eke out a few percent improvement in light reflection.
My main concern is degradation in sunlight. Mylar apparently breaks down in UV, so it's not a good long-term product. Whatever film, coating, or paint that's used should be durable and naturally stay clean.
I’ve been doing this for a few years already with my standard panels as well as the first bifacials, but it’s much more consistent to use opaque white instead of something super reflective/specular like the Mylar that you used. The opaque white gathers and spreads more evenly across the entire array plus you won’t add any additional reflective heat from the super reflective surface as well as hot spots that can develop from the Mylar not being totally flat where the white reflection also spreads to wider angles.
I wanted to start with the most reflective surface possible as a benchmark. Now I will have to try some more dispersive options.
Yep, testing this theory since 2012 then built a bifacial testbed in 2022 to record the changes. White is best
@Chief351L comment was removed? Idk. Chief you may want to see the CS website? Been at this for many years and live energy test, compare.
Makes a lot of sense since mylar not only reflects visible light but also a good portion and amount of IR (and maybe some of some other spectrum like some UV?) whereas opaque white will mostly just reflect the visible light, and as you said, more diffusely so (less concentrated hot spots).
Good tip.
I was thinking orca reflective film - it's used by hydroponic guys 😊 - it's white rather than mirror like but 90 - 95% reflective and tougher than standard myler.
I’m not an engineer but a small vertical gap between the posts and a horizontal gap between the panels would lower the probability of wind damage without significantly adding to the size of the array. I really like the consideration that a reduction in peak exposure would lengthen the useful life of the panel as well. Thanks for sharing your research.
The lengthened useful life is actually because this orientation is more effective at keeping the solar panels cool, since air is able to flow up both sides.
I think the small cracks will add a vacuum to areas as wind blows over to hard. Could cause it to rip upward with the wind.
I think you are right about the vertical gap. If you are using these panels for a privacy fence you might offset a standard wood panel or post behind or in front of that gap to allow wind to flow around and through it while still blocking the view.
@@ernieblue5307 You have a good point. When I drive by privacy fences at the right speed I can see everything behind it.
"holes" in fencing to mitigate wind pressure tend not to work as desired until you reach something approaching 50% gap space, like snow-drift fencing.
If the gaps are not large, it can actually increase the effect of wind because of the vortices which come into play. A completely gap-free fence has the benefit of building up a bubble of high-pressure air in front of it, which is actually 'vaguely' aerodynamic. Alleviating that pressure pocket can in effect make that pressure bubble more flattened/blunt in shape...
If you're really worried about wind, then some snow-drift fencing off to the sides could help reduce the wind speed that hits the solar panel. (would block some rays right at dawn and dusk though). Also orienting the panels so they are less tall (but a longer wall of them) would be dramatically more wind resistant. Would make the needed size of reflector material much narrower too.
Being off grid I’ve found early morning and late afternoon is my nemesis, so I added 6 panels to the east and 6 to the west. With 18 I already had facing south. This was a huge benefit, that extra early morning power when you are on fumes made a big difference and the west panels kept the pack full all the way to sunset even running loads. Giving me basically 4 extra hours of useable sun. Not high output, but badly needed output at the right moment. Which helps me use a smaller battery pack to get me through
Sounds like you determined it was cheaper to add more E/W panels than to increase the size of your battery?
@@ProjectsWithDave It’s a balancing act. Once I added the panels for critical timing, I was able to only need 4 48v rack batteries instead of 6. Was able to then use the other 2 rack batteries to build a system for my RV which I can just connect to in the event of a short fall in the home system.
I had done a similar setup but mine is more like a half circle, but that was before and later I upgrades to solar tracking mounts. Just automatic left to right for daily tracking with a manual up and down for different angles during the year I need to just like 4 times a year.
@@ProjectsWithDave kinda more like, why am I running on battery 3 hours after sunrise and 3-4 hours before sunset, at 20-30 cents per watt that last for 30 years solar panels are way the wise investment compared to batteries that may last 10 years or less.
@@SSingh-nr8qz u shape is ideal really, straight line panels are for grid tie tidy setups, a true off grid setup will have panels everywhere to catch sun whenever it can so long as space permits.
A cheap alternative for keeping birds off your panels is fishing string. I attached a couple of rods on the top of each end of the panels, and ran fishing string a few inches above the span of the panels (similar to barbed wire above a fence). Tie some small strips of fabric to the string every few feet and it gives a visual deterramce in the breeze. Havent had a single bird land in a couple years, and when the string goes bad, ill simply replace it.
Another unique idea... Thanks
I dont even have a house for solar, but the amount of work and detail you put into this video is amazing...watched the entire thing just because your presentation was on point.
I have discovered with my bi-facial panels that highly reflective material like the mylar you were using will give you greater gains when used from about 10 feet away from the panels. The ambient light they reflect when very close to the panels like you had them also reflect a lot of heat which will negate many times any gains you get. Move the reflective material away and you will notice a greater gain.
i caught that mistake too👍
One of the big benefits of your East/West facing array is that your Solar panels are producing power when you need/use it most. For example: If you live in the South, you typically have your highest energy demand in the late afternoon when your Air Conditioning is working hardest to overcome the heat of the day. The opposite is true in the North during the Winter months, where people are heating their homes in the early morning hours due to the colder overnight temperatures. Consequently, not only are your vertical panels providing energy when it is needed most, but any Solar panels mounted in an East, or West, direction will more closely match the actual energy usage of a typical home.
As a side note, if you have an Off-Grid Solar system, it would be beneficial to have a few more panels mounted facing East, or vertical, to get your battery bank charged up quicker in the mornings. This would also help get your battery bank charged on cloudy days.
If you live off grid you will need a battery that can last multiple days without significant solar input. In that case South may be your best orientation to maximize your production for the day.
As soom as you have a battery optimization for (winter) overall energy beats everything. South facing panels that are perpendicular to the sun at noon in the winter will be best. The minimal loss of energy in the summer doesn't matter because in summer there is always enough of it.
@@ProjectsWithDave really if you live off grid your battery system should be configured with multiple Inputs like 1 or 2 wind turbines in conjunction with a solar array coupled with a hydroelectric water diversion turbine from you main water source. With diesel or gas generator as backup.....
@@ProjectsWithDave that's the opposite of the path I chose for my system.
We drastically overpanneled our system to have enough to power our modest home on thick cloudy winter days, and dump excess into long-term thermal storage during the rest of the year.
Of course we like to be really cool (60s) so the high panneling helps in summer too.
@@Yuriel1981 Best is still nuclear.
The thing with vertically oriented panels is the heat is better shed than angled panels.
Vertical bifacial panels as fencing bypasses the whole can of worms with roof installation...
I saw another person using mirrors on a Bifacial similar to this and he found as he pulled the mirror back about 3-4 feet away it put the most light onto the solar panel, he gained about 60 watts on the Bifacial side. The negative with extreme reflected light is the solar panel got very hot 150+F .
You're absolutely correct that nobody talks about how easily you cook your panel. I use water from a stream that's pipe down a hill that cools my solar array that I'm currently playing with. The reflected light from the mirrored surfaces have completely fried panels.
I think that this had a lot to do with the Mirrors reflecting the IR light (HEAT!) as well. Somnething like the "Orca Film" described by other commentors might be the trick, as it was designed to only reflect the visible spectrum, and in a very diffuse manner, at that.
I have some ARCO panels from the 70's or early 80's which were burned by reflectors. The white surfaces seem the safest way to go
And as your module temperature goes up, electrical power output goes down. Also accelerates degradation. Definitely things to consider
Great tests! You mentioned diffuse reflectors may be a better option and I agree. Aluminized foils can fail to reflect 30% or more of the light that hits them, whether it directly absorbs or just passes through the foil. A good ultrawhite paint can be 90%+ reflective, though the diffuse reflection means much of the light will miss your panel. Of course having multiple surrounding panels would help to catch some of it. Simply spraying the ground with chalk may have an impressive temporary effect.
Installed 3 500W vertical bifacial panels in Ontario Canada, used 4’ deck screw anchors and 8020inc strut as the mounts. Winter is coming, will see what the snowless panels will produce.
Note in winter a panel with no snow will out produce a snow covered panel every time.
This. In winter snow climates, snow is the enemy. Often, roof mounted panels get wind drifted snow on them. Wind drifted snow is THICK and DENSE. Winter cloudy days with snow covered panels = zero solar production. Mid latitude Canada, the winter sun angle is about 9 degrees from vertical. Vertical or nearly vertical panels will absolutely maximize snow shedding and therefore solar production during the worst sun months. In summer, a vertical panel facing south will be maxed out anyway, so plan for the winter snow. Stay gold.
"In winter, snow is the enemy."
Unless it's a bifacial vertical panel system, and then it's a reflector.
Thanks for all of your hard work! I know that time, real effort, and a love of knowledge are behind your videos… I can feel it! Thank you and know that you are informing people and helping them to enrich their own lives. You are a true American.
Thank You! I appreciate that!
Nice
Chinese Bifacial Panels 445 Wp cost about 70 USD per panel in Switzerland - Dont get ripped off. 180 USD for a 410 Wp panel is crazy overpriced
Wow, we can't get panels at that price in the US.
@@ProjectsWithDaveButt, how far has One gone to BYPASS the middle-men Re-sellers. ALSO, has much to do with specific country of origin the products come from.
If he wants to to support local manufacturing and lower the prices we need more people supporting them...f the chinesium crap.
In pakistan 580 watt jinko n type bifacial solar panels sells for about 72 usd. And even then we get discounts if we buy in bulk
@@cmbaz1140there's no local manufacturing of solar panels all of them come from China or are repackaged to make them look American. Chinese panels are top of the line, but taxed heavily in Canada and US.
The depth of the engineering work you're doing, and the enthusiasm you display for it, is inspiring not just for me as a fellow mechanical engineer, but also for the next generation! Here's a suggestion for another analysis: We built a 38-panel DIY bifacial grid-tied ground mount. We did some backyard science trying different tilt angles before building it out, and found better performance for surprisingly high tilt angles up to 45deg. We covered the front-side with cardboard one day, and noticed higher output from the back-side component vs. 32deg which is standard in our area (northern Vermont near Canada). We did the same on a snowy day and saw even more. We chickened out on going 45deg, but ended up at about 42deg. The generation has been good for 2 years, and we've noticed way better snow-sliding performance with the higher tilt. After every snow, our panels slide well before many conventional ground mounts in our town. This really helps that bifacial power surge on sunny days after fresh snow. So my suggestion is to build a ground mount test rig with adjustable tilt angle and evaluate bifacial tilt angles (including a low tilt reference) across the seasons. I think you might find the results surprising....we sure did!
To deter birds from perching on your solar panels, run strong fishing line, tight, about 2.5 inches above the tops (left to right) of the panels. This way, birds can't get their center of gravity squarely above the panel, making it uncomfortable to perch. This works very well on my balcony railing.
I would think plastic fishing line would keep stretching over time, requiring somewhat frequent tension adjustment.
Has someone tried piano wire or rust resistant fishing leader wire? These too, will stretch over time but it should be a quite a lot longer between tension adjustments. They're also UV proof, not just UV resistant.
I think bronze wire would be too "stretchy"
@@exgenica My fishing line is not actually stretched really tight. But it is the upper strenght stuff, I think 30 to 50 lbs rated monofilament line, thick and clearly visible. It is not eleastic and absolutly won't stretch out.
@@MrBryantdavis Isn't that the SUPER premium line? How well do you think it would hold up against the teeth of Texas gar?
Something not talked about is the fact that you also get a fence.
So you get power when you need it most and a fence.
THIS. Every farm around here has a FENCE. (SW Ontario). How much would a long string of bifacial panels cost and what's the utility if THEY'RE NOT TAKING UP AGRICULTURAL SPACE?
In many areas, solar panels are a great item to STEAL for extra cash. Just bring along a battery powered drill and zipp zipp you've lost your fence and your solar!
@@KWifler
Unless they're dirt cheap chinesium junk
@@KWifler Really? How many Pawn Shops do you know that buy solar panels that a tweaker has broken?
@@KWifler What areas are you talking about? Here in Germany I've never heard of such behavior. It seems like legit für reagions where powersupply is not good and people ened to use diesel generators, which is expansive.
The idea of vertical panels saving land is interesting. In many circumstances it may be worth getting a bit less energy to save the land.
it would be cool to see a power vs land use statisic. How much Power is produced by a specific ammount of landuse for any kind of power production. Maybe it also could also show the landuse including the production factories and mining pits.
Saving land may not be worth it. Most crops require loads of sunlight, that they now won't get as they are shaded by panels. So what crop will you grow now that does not need light? Mushrooms?
@@jonasmadsen8535 well you got a point, but for example Winds erode the surface of the field and can harm the plants. It needs to be looked at. Overhead solar is realy good for potatoes for example, but that is not the vertical one, so lets not Look at this. Vertical pv can be installed on farms with cows or chickens for example
i took it more as panel density but now i realise of course, it matters how you pack them so that they don't sit in each other's shade
i think a series of tests looking at the energy/area output for a full array would be interesting, since it may be easier to pack more solar panels than to find more land
Vertical panels also don’t see as much heating so they should last longer. Crops between rows of vertical panels also shouldn’t be too affected because they still get the mid day sun.
Also, vertical panels are a good solution for areas without southern exposure. I live in the mountains, and my only option is east/west facing panels.
My principal thought for vertical east/west bifacial panels is that usually a south facing array makes power between (solar) 10am and 2pm and more energy harvest means more current meaning bigger control gear. With an E/W facing panel the energy harvest is not at peak times so a smaller controller could do BOTH jobs.
If that's an issue it just means that you bought too many panels for your inverter. S panels with the proper inverter are still way better
For the wind issue consider mounting the panels with an offset pivot. This will allow them to swing and dump the wind pressure. But the offset balance point would return them to vertical when calm.
This can also make the panel horizontal(er) during the day when daytime heating starts creating some wind.
It's a very good idea - I like it. But a consequence will be repeated stressing of the electric cables - and you wouldn't want fatigue failures in those. And (thinking further and to minimise cable movement) the connection points for the cables from one panel to the next will need to be near the pivots. But seems worth a try-out.
@@falfield just put a stress-loop near the pivot... and use your best, highest comductor-count wire there. We've been bending conductors for a lonnnng time.
The fact, that you can put a crop in between, is much more worth than any percentage in the output, if you are in an area where farming is important.
What crops can be planted under those giant mirrors on the ground, that couldn't be planted under the horizontal panels?
putting a mirror setup underneath the south facing panels would probably be a great idea, it'll reflect light at the back of the panels and won't have any shadow problems.
But then you have to keep it clean
I have used this trick when charging in the snow. The reflection from the snow increases charging rate dramatically.
To solve bird issue instal Bird Spikes on top edge
I was thinking the same thing. The energy cost savings might not ever pay out though, those spike are crazy expensive for what they are.
@@StormGod29got to think about time saving from cleaning it off and potential long term side affects like stains or scrapes from cleaning
If you add height on it, the grid gap also increases on the land because shadow is also expending.
@@StormGod29 Feel like you could just glue a bunch of zip-ties to the top instead of paying for pre-made ones
You can use large print outs of birds of prey (ones that are local to the area you live in) and the birds will stay away. IE- Large owls, hawks, eagles, etc.
I love this video as a solar enthusiast. The vertical design with reflectors takes up a lot of space. I have a smaller backyard facing southward.
you can simply paint the area where the panels are in matte white - this will give the perfect diffused light
This is what I’m going for my small bifacial solar panel setup. Hoping for good results!
Edit: Why would you recommend matte white over glossy?
@@therookienomore88 Gloss is more "reflective", less "diffusive".
@@Omniverse0 Ok, would the backside of solar panels absorb more diffuse light than reflective?
Awesome testing, love it. Was thinking you were going to get these results after first video. Awesome conclusions drawn in your findings. awesome
Try "A" frames east and west. Angle depends on your location the angle. You could flatten the curve / optimize production and still take up less relesate.
The reflectors are nullifying one of the advantages of the vertical bifacial setup, which uses virtually zero land area. If you already increase the used land area, then you could also angle them slightly (I would put them 75° or so from flat, which would use a quarter of the area that the two reflectors do. Not to mention that the ground would only be periodically obstructed by posts, instead of permanently shaded).
And to get even better power production in the 3 hours after sunrise/ before sunset (and improve the winter performance at the cost of summer performance) you could face half of the panels each +-75° or so from south, instead of +-90° from south. The combined effect of both angle changes would also miss-align the front and back face's dips (which used to overlap at 12:00) into two dips, one around 10:00 and one around 2:00, which should give you a similar 50% improvement compared to straight west and east facing panels, the same amount that the reflectors did.
I don't think you can fully optimize the power production without taking advantage of the fact that the front face gives you 50% more power than the back face.
Its funny how we come up with all these complicated tracking mounts etc. Then someone is like "Have you tried a mirror?"
😂like idk why i didn't even think of this. I'm getting a portable and I know im gonna put her through her paces..thst unfortunately means she'll be prone to delamination 😢 so i know ill be opting to use morning light and this will definitely help a tonne!
His data showed that mirrors help, but only when compared to other fixed direction panels. They aren't anywhere near as efficient as having a panel aimed right at the sun.
The camera in my cell phone can pick out faces to focus on. So the logic behind using a simple light sensor to determine the direction of the sun and aiming panels at it is a no-brainer. A couple of stepper motors with a gear drive should do all the aiming throughout the day. Heck, you could even add a simple logic chain to determine when to orient them vertically (ie: during snowstorms).
And no one tested fresnel lenses yet !
@@WitheRhino - I think I've seen them tested in past videos. I just don't remember where now.
Why not both? A fancy armature that tilts the panels around noon but sets them back to standing along with the reflectors
As a mechanical engineer, I appreciate the attention to detail for the power output results. Thanks for sharing!
Im interested to see more testing with the south facing bifacial panels and attempting to reflect more light to the underside of the array.
I thought the same.
I just finished mounting my 460 w bifacial panels in East West vertical position and on partially cloudy day I am showing 500 watts per panel.
This is amazing tech
Keep it up! Following with great interest!
Bifacial south facing 30percent tilt, with a reflector on the flat ground seems like a winning idea that i just thought of...
Right, I think that would outperform the vertical result by a significant margin. For my location I think closer to 40deg tilt would be even better.
bless you sir. Also as an audio professional thank you for wearing earplugs while pounding stakes. Hearing loss is a major contributor to dementia.
Great solution for many installations. I like the photo of the different scenerios. Anti bird landing wire can be installed on panel tops to prevent the birds unless you want them to land there or give the birds alternate perches.
Now, set up reflection beds underneath the bifacial southfacing 30 degree panels and measure the boost. You can angle them to make the easier to place in a position to give fairly good boost but you may want to set up low side blinders to prevent light waste causing annoying glare for bystanders. A floating solar array on a pond with bifacial panels teathered to be south facing would also be a great experiment.
Came here to suggest this.
I also think reflectors would simply be a boon, period. Especially for those who live in predominantly overcast and morning fog areas, like the Pacific North West/West Coast.
That's something you don't hear for solar panel installations much: birds and hornet nests.
I like to share the good and the bad. No value in sugar coating things.
I live in a valley in the mountains,I made a system with one side on wheels, the other side is on a on a rotating bearing plate in the ground, allowing me to follow the sun, and I do use reflectors, and am able to move the panels to a vertical position..The improvements are off the charts..
0:45 mirrors are cheaper than pv cells .. makes me wonder what you could do with magnification
From my limited understanding there's a curve where if you focus too much sun/heat on the panels that it can degrade performance and lifespan. Not sure at what point this becomes an issue though
Concentrated solar
Concentrated solar doesn't use photovoltaics but just generates heat to spin turbines like any other old fashioned energy source. I think it's an option for seriously large scales in desert-like environments, but there are huge efficiency losses in that process and can't really be compared to bifacial solar panels. Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding something which is always a possibility...
Yeah but that's brilliant if you could manufacture a small high output cells capable of taking focused light instead of fields upon fields. It's a good idea.
Thanks for giving us performance numbers! It is somewhat obvious it would improve production.
Now, many warehouse roofs are painted white (and flat), but those should also improve performance over grass.
If the solar panels were hinged in the middle and could be rotated to be horizontal or vertical during the day, perhaps automatically, maximum solar efficiency could be achieved. 😊👍
it's 1-axis solar tracker..
Nice idea. Perhaps the concept could be extended into a Venetian blind structure to optimise collection without increasing the land use. They could be flattened to allow equipment to pass unobstructed as well. The added cost/complexity might have too much impact though. Worth exploring, I think.
You have absolutely earned a sub. You are so articulate and so grammatically perfect. It's so nice to hear somebody actually hold a conversation without using the word um, or saying uh a lot. Very great channel and content. Algorithm sends you videos that you watch my patootie!!! I've never seen a video of yours before.And I watch videos like this all the time. Better late than never!!!!
If I remeber correctly dave's in dave's solar panels the back solar panel can only produce 60% of what the front can. But I think newer biffacials have better biffaciality at like 80-90% and this will likely put them very very close to angled south facing arrays.
What panel is claiming 80-90%?
@@ProjectsWithDave For example this one
HJT Bifacial Double Glass 680W 690Wp 700Watt Photovoltaic Solar Panel Module
And also I found a paper where they tested a module and it had over 80% bifiaciality.
Evaluation of the bifaciality coefficient of bifacial photovoltaic modules under real operating conditions
If you google search for "bifiaciality 80%" you'll find much more
@@ProjectsWithDave It seems my replies are getting caught in a sppum filter. If you can't see my other reply search for bifaciality 80% and you will get results.
Sharp Energy Solutions Europe Introduces Bifacial N-Type TOPCon
Fresh N type double Glass from main Chinese manufacturers
Thanks for the video! This is great information. I live in the suburbs of LA, about 20 miles inland, so no marine layer and very, very sunny. I have 36 x 400 watt roof top panels with 18 facing east, 4 facing south and 14 facing west and I make 94 kwh per day at summer solstice, which is 2.6 kwh per panel per day. It’s amazing to think that those vertical panels are making as much as my 30 degree panels are when they only see sun for half of the day and you’re further north, which should mean less total sun.
Interesting... Is that 2.6kWh an average for all 36 panels for the day? Standard E/W panels on a roof are not the best performers. I did some analysis on that in this video: ruclips.net/video/M-5qcmlMLSg/видео.html
Superb 👍 You made it 🎉. Also, a tip, make the reflector like a convex mirror by adding a curved plastic sheet under it, this will spread the light over a larger area of the panels and you can increase the distance between the reflector and array to remove the shadow. Also, you can make the reflector with white reflective paint on a curved plastic sheet, this will reduce the cost significantly.
glad to see this!! after your first video, I imagined setting up mirrors EXACTLY like this!! this would also be a good way to capture rain water for off-grid
Very interesting! A parabolic shape, some of that ultra white reflective paint and an elevation gap between the panel and reflector are all possible improvement points.
A gap between the panel and reflector might help manage snow.
I can't believe this video is 100% free.Thanks man
You know that your next step is a reflector system for the back side of your south facing bifacial panels right? Great and informative video!
I know that a smart, smooth, always perfectly oriented sun tracking array is expensive and not financially worth it unless you have very limited space for your setup. So, what I would like to see is a "dumb" 3 position rotating ground mount test where they face at a vertical position east until 10 AM, then rotate in a single step to a south facing 30 deg angel until 4 in the afternoon where they then rotate to a west facing vertical orientation. I don't care if you used a bifacial or conventional array for the three position mobile array test... and I don't expect to see it any time soon... but I am subscribed in hopes of seeing it someday.
Thanks for the sub! I've been thinking about tracking options, but it will be a while before I have anything on the topic.
@@ProjectsWithDave Your content is interesting, so I am not loosing anything by being subscribed before you get around to testing movable panels 👍
@@ProjectsWithDavehave you seen those sun tunnels people put in their homes to bring light in, small but it really brightens a room 🤔 wonder if this could be applied. This is round. The earth is round, just a thought, but can’t help but think trying round, curved, and spherical might be the answer. I am fascinated by how much the reflection increased the energy.
Your experiments are so enlightening thank you.
Main issue is price of bifocal panel...
On average, they cost 1.5-2 times more - due to marketing costs
while there is still an opportunity to buy a regular panel with a power of 580-620 watts for $120
Where can you buy 600 watts of solar panels for only $120?
We pay 6$ more for bifacial, identical manufacturer and panel. 100->106
@@HenriUA haha - well, yes, but that manufacturer sells everything with a big markup.
all this is an overpayment for the manufacturer’s expenses on marketing.
people are willing to pay a lot for something that is advertised beautifully
Unfortunately, marketing is a modern evil, as is planned obsolescence.
One variable to consider is power produced vs. power needs throughout the day, winter vs. summer, with storage and without, etc. This is great data collection and design for experiment.
Thank you for this video! I am a panel installer in France. Very nice presentation!
Glad it was helpful!
I had to stop watching at 1:00 Holy crap.
This experiment is awesome! Great work sir
Yes finally someone sees the light of reflective panels! This setup can do so much for so many space uses. I wanted to do this and I'm glad you collected data too! I will need this and would like to use this video to pitch to development of my projects.
I’m trying to learn enough to start going solar ( W=VxA , was about about the extent of my knowledge so it’s been slow going) I really appreciate your videos because of your ability to provide valuable information without overwhelming this novice.
I'm glad the videos have been helpful. I've considered doing a basic series on designing a system. One of many items on my list of future actives. : )
@@ProjectsWithDaveI too, just getting started, looking at solar off grid versus an $6000 dollar Generac plus install. I could see a small generator to top off a battery from solar on the off grid system.
Great stuff. Thanks for sharing.
Should also include tracker based bifacial module for better comparison
Thanks for this data, it's very useful for many people around the globe.
Thanks for the great video, and for the work you do. To keep birds from perching on the tops of your vertical panels, you might try a spike strip. This is a square piece of lumber with nails in it. If your panel is 1" wide at the top, then get a 1x1 piece of lumber, drill pilot holes about every half inch down the length of it, and put nails (slightly bigger than the hole) through the holes, sticking up 1" to 4", depending on the size of the birds you need to repel. Then fasten the spike strip to the top of the panel - spikes up, of course. Hope this helps.
Great experiment! Like anything, you have to install based on your needs. The "ultimate" solution is to have several smaller arrays at optimized angles through the entire sun arc targeting when you need power.
So basically for a home it would be best to have some "normal" south facing panels and some east/west facing vertical bi-directional panels. Depending on the local power contracts you would generate a lot of energy in the middle pf the day with the "cheap panels". Additionally, you would harvest the early and late sun to charge up a battery and/or to just use the sun directly when you consume the most.
Depending on each scenario, maybe something like 60% cheap normal and 40% bifacial vertical panels would be a hood mix. The difficult thing is probably to find the best solution for each home. Most people can't or don't want to place panels vertically in their garden.
Great to get solid data rather than assumption and hearsay, keep it up.
As for fixing. Simple angle iron. Can even weld on hinges so if it's very windy you can fold them down.
Might I suggest, (im referring specifically to minute 13:00 ), considering you dont need a mirror type surface to reflect the light into the panels, you could potentially take your verticals from the grass area, to maybe somewhere like whats underneath your solar array to the side. very bright colored quartz like rock used for landscaping. has some glassiness, but will create a much brighter environment for the panels. looking forward to seeing your next video
16:20 perfect you thought of it haha
Only ~1/3 of the way through the video so far- this is the first video I've seen from your channel, so it was a pleasant surprise to hear you're from Texas! Same with the Signature Solar mention- I've actually been interviewing with their sister company recently.
I'm very interested in using vertical South facing arrays to double as a privacy fence. A bit less performance is okay since the panels are doing double duty for me.
I've seen interesting setups where greenhouses with reflective covering are used to boost the performance. The solar arrays are placed between greenhouses. And the sides are curved, which helps reflect through more of the solar arc and distribute across the panels versus flat reflective structures.
You could skirt this around your whole array, and if you're careful about drainage gaps, it could provide pretty decent weed suppression around and near the panels.
Good information, thank you. Interested white rock application on both positions. Flat vs. center mounding. Mylar is also easily conforms to different shape. Your right there is a lot of efficiency tuning available. Wish you the best of luck.
Thanks, I'm going to try that in the future.
Great video. I recently installed some standard panels vertically on my house's south facing side and it's been working out really well for me.
I put 4x100 watt flexible solar panels on my 34' CHB trawler, 2 vertical on the sides and two on the front of the flybridge, facing slightly up. Kept my 8 x 6volt batteries charged up and ran my old 12vdc fridge all day and well into the evening. The extra glare off the water definitely helped.
what a great project. Great video. Thanks. If you put two panels horizontal between and that would probably cancel the dip.
Wow that was the best test and explanation I have seen. Looking forward to seeing the N/S test.
Off grid usually is designed for your worst weather conditions. I’m an electrician in Aus and have used Victron a lot. It’s great gear. I think the idea of having a lot of mppt set up over large areas like fence lines is a great idea with bi-Di panels. If there was a reflective material that mainly reflected optical and could filter the infra red that is a great option but if you can’t reduce the panel degradation from heat then the temperature coefficient and cost of replacement will decrease the viability of reflectors.
Really interesting video.
Subbed and liked because I found that really interesting
Mirrors are impractical in the summer if you live in warm area because you don't want to heat the panel (you're risking degradation), in the winter it can be useful.
Important to pay attention to potential unintended consequences of using mirrors, mylar, low e glass, etc. Reflections from home window coatings have melted/set fires to cars and vice versa (sun shades reflecting onto homes.)
Great Video! I would also use reflector on the ground under the south looking panels! And: Yes, Orca has the most diffuse surface!
This is great! you could make fences out solar panels.
You could use a flat Fresnel mirror so it would not block the morning sun.
I have wondered why no one does this. You could also add reflectors off to the sides and for different heights.
Open areas of concrete give exceptionally good ambient reflection.
(Snow cover does pretty much the same thing.)
An east/west setup works very well in the middle of a concrete roof if you want even production throughout the whole day.
You also mentioned that your reflector did not extend the out beyond the panel, which I’ve experimented with as well and is really significant
I like the data driven approach. Excited to see the north-south vertical data :)
Hi dave
I think your experiment is great but very sad to not see data on vertical single face facing south.
So im very excited to see the vertical north/south data
Really liking your content. I just picked up some bifacial panels with a tracking mount. I’m working on some reflecting for them too.
Very cool testing. Yeah, would love to see the reflector test, but with something bright white like plain Tyvek wrap, white EPDM roof material, or white tin roof sheets.
Congrat on this new viral video! Amazing work!
Thank you!
Suggestion, If you can get it place white rock below the bi-facials, you will get more bounced indirect light.
Thank you for analyzing and sharing all that
OMG this bro went HARD on data collection!! I LOVE IT!
I'm glad someone appreciates it! You have no idea how many spreadsheets I generated to put this together.
@@ProjectsWithDave 😂 I can only imagine...it's one thing to collect data it's another to try to make it presentable 😭
Make a merry-go-round with verticals panels. The efficiency gained from the cooling would be more than enough to power the motor (and more)
I did a very simple experiment by connecting a volt meter to a open voltage 100w solar panel and started turning the panel towards the sun, then started tilting the panel to see where the highest voltage reading was, Needing a prop stick to hold the panel I set it flat on the ground to my surprise the over all position is to simply keep the panel Horizontal you get the best performance all day long , Of course this doe's not work well in the winter with the snow falling on them , I have yet to mount panels under the soffit of the house pointing downward and use the reflective light of the snow and even off the siding of the building . Food for thought .....................
First of all, thanks for doing this. The info is nice to have. Subbed.
Next. A few ideas for you to ponder, maybe try.
1. Birds. I have a potential solution for them on the vertical panels. Get a long cylinder that is able to be attached to the top, and have it wrapped in some of that mylar. This surface will be very undesirable for them to stand on, and will help reflect some light back down to the bottom reflector at some angles. Just make sure the cylinder isn't too large, or it will create shade on the panels in the midday. This method should (ideally) keep the birds away, while not harming them, and possibly netting a positive result on power production; even if just a small one.
2. Set the panels on their long side instead, low to the ground, but not too low, since grass will become more of an issue if too low. The idea is simple. If you are getting less reflection hitting the top side, just make it so there isn't a top side. You could try to tune the angle of the reflector as well of course, and that will probably help regardless; but this will also help with the wind situation. Less of a vertical footprint so to speak. Still wider now at the low end, but wind breaks in well places areas that don't block the sun can help reduce that. (Look to bushes like Karagana. I probably spelled that wrong. It grows really easily, and shouldn't be considered invasive due to be being technically wild in N.America. Provides a nice wind break for farmers all over Saskatchewan for instance.) Also, the posts won't need to be as tall, saving on materials cost. PS. If ever testing rows, make sure to offset the row behind the most 'front' side row towards the rising sun. Not too high though, or you'll block the setting sun in reverse. You'll probably end up taking a loss on either side to some extent, but minimal and reasonably acceptable I think, if the offset is done just right... maybe?)
3. If you're going to test paint, go for the ultra white paints that cool the surface they are painted on due to the sheer reflectivity of their albedo effect. The cooling effect won't help the panels of course, but it will help keep the surface of the reflector from becoming a potential fire hazard if it gets hot enough.
4. Mylar actually was the right choice for something reflective that can be easily used by just about anyone. Mirrors have this nasty tendency to actually absorb some of that light. But, you might be right about needing that diffusion, which a glass style mirror probably would help with. But, now you're dealing with glass mirrors in potentially high wind situations. Seems like a bad idea.
So maybe stick with the mylar, but try to find a way to adhere the mylar to the surface in a perfect or as perfect of a application of it as possible. Look to vinyl sign makers, or those car wraps, and how they use a squeegee to adhere the vinyl or wrap for guidance on this, i think.
Also, instead of wood, as nice and cheap as it is to use when you can just recycle some old stuff... maybe try to find some sort of aluminum plate that can be made and sold to you. You could use the same mounting hardware mostly then, perhaps with a few new screw holes tapped in, just the metal frame jutting off at the bottom will be at an angle instead of course. This will help with the wind somewhat too maybe, perhaps. The angle of the reflectors should help redirect some of that wind under the panels, maybe. And if they get bent over at their ground point, the reflector is the first thing to take any damage on the back end hitting the ground first.
Looking at the clip of the other installers reflectors, looks like they had similar thoughts on the attachment side of things. Perhaps maybe not the wind aspect as much.
5. Similar to the bird proposition, put some of those cylinders on the sides as well as the top; and also the bottom. Any light you can reflect potentially back towards the panels will be ideal I think, and any that gets reflected back to the reflector will hopefully make its way towards the panel as well. The combined effect of all of them, will probably not be a huge increase in performance, but if it even helps adjust that curve by 1% overall, that's 1% more for the sum.
Again, not too large of cylinders, or you'll get unwanted shadows.
6. The heat coming up off those panels might be enough to create enough of a draft to get those mini roof top and mountain side helix vane style wind turbines to be of some use. Between cross winds and that draft, you could maybe get a couple set up per panel or two, to help increase the power output. But that's a big addition, that may not be worth the time and trouble. Hence why it's the last one, similar to 5, though 1 uses the same idea; but for a different purpose.
Birds... of course they would love panels. They love power wires too.
Re birds perching: Run some taut fishing line @ 4 -5 inches above the top of the panel. We do it @ here to keep shorebirds off the deck railings of piers. No way for them to land. Works like a charm. Woops I see Keith from Iowa has the same suggestion!
Thanks Dave, great info.
I'm especially interested because I'm setting up modules a little differently, let me explain. I have more modules than I need by design. What that does for me is give me more energy on overcast days in the winter when I need energy the most. This summer I replaced 24 modules with bifacials, my goal is to heat with PV and, like you, I have the land to do it. I just added another min-split (three in total) and as soon as the daylight hits I run all three to heat our house as much as possible before sundown. Modules that will get energy earlier in the day are more important then midday energy because the midday energy is more than enough to run the mini's.
What I'm thinking about doing is taking the 24 modules I removed and use them vertically to get more morning and evening sun. Because it's such an easy install racking (back to back non-bifacial modules) would be minimal.
If you are installing panels vertically you need a very robust racking system. The one in this video was just temporary and not a long term solution. If you have extra modules and are just looking to improve your morning and evening performance this could be a good solution. However, direct E/W alignment does not do well in the winter, you may consider a tilted array with a steep angle and a SE and SW orientation. Play with the PVwatts calculator and make sure you are actually getting the winter gain you are looking for: pvwatts.nrel.gov/
I did a couple things that improved the efficiency of my off-grid array on a year-average basis. Extremely rural Wyoming, many miles from the nearest grid access.
I had 4' wide south facing windows, which were great in the winter for helping to heat the house, but murderous heat radiators in the summer. By mounting panels at the top of each like visors, they served a dual purpose - shading the windows in the summer and producing power to boot, and in the winter, when the midday sun was lower, it shined in under the panels unimpeded, allowing maximum solar heating under them.
! also mounted panels on a tiltable table, which I adjusted on a monthly basis to get the most efficient angle for that particular time of year, tracking the mean angle of the sun for that period. Both of these measures helped significantly. The tilting table made between a 10 and 15% efficiency increase.
I also mounted panels on the east and west side of the house vertically to catch that little advantage of early morning and late evening sun. It made a significant enough difference to justify the cost. I was going to experiment with reflectors, but I ended up moving back to civilization.
I may be returning the the house soon, and, being in Wyoming, vertical panels don't seem too practical, due to extreme seasonal winds. As we all know in northern climes, clearing snow off panels is the single most annoying drawback to having them in general. I am considering a powered, roll-up tarp, much like an RV awning, to automatically cover them an night, and retract in the morning. We'll see...
Thank you for all your work and insights, and I am sure your videos will spark ideas to improve my system.
Thanks for taking the time to post your experience. I like your window visor solution.
I like the idea of getting white rocks and coating them in something white and highly reflective to put around the panels. they will act like snow or tiny mirrors redirecting light to the panels from the surrounding area.