Is CdTe something you’d want on your house or project? Order yourself a LARQ Bottle PureVis 2 to go plastic free and enjoy ice cold water throughout the entire day. bylarq.com/undecidedpv2 If you liked this, check out How Compressed Air Batteries are FINALLY Here ruclips.net/video/VS05y9mQgbw/видео.html
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607867/ nope, this is terrible idea, far from value of ''green energy''... elimination pathway of Cd involves brain, not to mentioned how it affects carcinogenesis, mutagenesis and destruction of the metabolic pathways associated with energy production in the human body.
Don't like plastic waste associated with drinking water? Buy this radio, battery, plastic, and disposable, proprietary filters only meant for a single person! Sorry, just pointing out the irony there.
Please stop pronouncing NREL as en-are-ee-el. Everybody at NREL, including its director Martin Keller who I just met on Sept 27 at the Colorado School of Mines, pronounce it en-rel. Your excellent podcasts are influential, and I'd appreciate if you could get the small things correct, too. Thank you!
CdTe and any other thin film, should really concentrate on making a structural backing. I don't want thin film solar panels on my wings, I want a slightly stretchy, wrap like material, instead of a traditional canvas wrap. Then I can make my spars out of carbon fiber instead of wood. Etc. My use case, is my idea for a flying e-bike conversion kit. I want to be able to park and charge the wing elements, while riding the bike element.
I'm a big fan from Lebanon, I love your videos Matt! Solar saved our lives! We have 1 to 2h a day maximum of grid coverage so we just installed a 4kw solar setup and just cancelled the government grid. We're saving a ton on bills, spending it elsewhere and living fully on green power :) The setup is small, so we manually regulate things like on hours for fridge, etc..
Stay safe. Can you tell us more about your experience with using solar power in Lebanon? Many people here wonder if solar can be used as a prepper solution. Thanks.
@@mickmccarthy8925 there is no urban area or country side, the nation is very small but very mountaineous. I live on 420m elevation with a lot of humidity and clouds. The only intense power sucker is the fridge, which we turn on at varying times. During summer, clouds are minimal and the 4 520W panels are working a lot of the day, so we keep it on from 6 am to 7 pm. In autumn its more cloudy and less sun so the fridge goes on from 7 am to 6 pm. I winter its very dependent on the weather, but at worst we turn it off an hour or so during its on hours. For heating water to bath and shower, we have a gas setup, its cheaper then electricity around here. We're also very careful with the batteries (2x250A) and the load. Aside from the fridge we really don't have anything that sucks power with high amperage. My gaming pc is on the lower end, I can keep it running pretty much always. Lastly, the trick to solar, I found, is to minimize consumption when the sun is setting, where the panels are barely charging and turning on anything besides lights and wifi make it stop charging the batteries. This is about a 1h period here so we just let it charge. Perhaps it is illogical, but that's just how I handle all my electronics: don't overstress them and keep them happy. I have an old laptop with an i3 2nd gen, 4gm ram, and an hdd, its terrible and should have died years ago but its still kixking even after 11 years. Same with solar, its a game of load balancing
@@ktefccre sure. My house is full of LED lamps, barely use 20W at most. 2 250A batteries and 4 520W panels have been doing a great job. Although it gets frustrating during some winter days with full on cloud and no heat from the sun, we never pass a day without lights and a working fridge. Heating for the shower is gas-powered, so the only power suckers in the house that impose a heavy load are the fridge and the iron (for clothes). Fridge runs an average of 8h, 12 during the summer, 6 at worst during winter. I live in a very humid area with a lot of clouds too. If I lived in a country side with minimal Cloud, solar would be a blast! Though it would be more terrible in the freezing winters Id assume too. So yeah, the biggest power consumers in the house are iron, fridge, washing machine (forgot to mention it in the other comment), and then my pc at 100W at most. 1V in the Inverter's battery charge panel is equivalent to 500 Watts, since we have 2 250A batteries (1v x 500A = 500 Watts) That means the Pc at very high load might take a singular watt in 5 hours. On a regular day with 8 hours of sun light, you can say we have about 3 volts or 1,500W to work with. You might think its nothing because of the fridge, washing machine, etc, but these don't use much power in practice because we run them during sunlight hours, so the pressure is offloaded from the batteries. Idk if my explanations make sense but its a humble setup with minimal consumption. The most important factor is to keeo watch on things and take care of your appliances
That point is barely relevant. Silicon is omnipresent on earth and due to the wide use and huge market there is a multitude of suppliers. Mankind has no way to run out of silicon in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile cadmium is a toxic heavy metal the world is trying to get rid off. This is a concern primarily during production and disposal. Tellurium is toxic as well but due to low solubility this is a less grave issue than cadmium. Meanwhile the tellurium sport price has recently peaked at 110 USD/kg and barely fallen since and predicted to continue to rise. The situation is broadly similar to rare earths where there is only a small number of suppliers for the world market and among those again China is by far the largest supplier. TeCd cells are relatively cheap in manufacturing and the material is being researched for a very long time already but from a strategic perspective I think the alternatives are preferable. Perovskite cells are looking like they might have a bright future and like their problems - namely the longevity - will be overcome in due time. And then there's the promise of multi-junction cells to overcome the Shockley-Queisser limit.
The cool thing about CdTe that you mentioned. They are waste products of 2 VERY widely used metals AND they both don't really have any other uses. So CdTe panels will always have a supply of raw material for not too much money.
Thank you, good news, as usual. I am a early adopter of PV solar energy. In 1980 I installed my first PV panel on my boat. In 2007 I had a contractor putting one on my roof. Back then the cost of panels was about $8 /watt. Nowadays it is possible to buy PV panels for about $0.75/watt in the US and $0.25/watt in Europe. My first roof system is made with 32 Kyocera 175 Watt panels and two TRACE grid inverters. Except for some inverter malfunctions, taken care under warranty, I had no issues and after 15 years the system still produce good power, peaking at 4.8 kw on a sunny day. About 18 months ago, lured in by the California rebates, I installed an additional 4.8 kw system + 20 kWh storage batteries. The new 12 panels have a nominal max power of 400 Watts and an efficiency of 0.22%. Each panel is coupled with a micro inverter capable of converting and transforming up to 290 Watts. This is because the smaller micro inverters are less expensive and have a better efficiency at lower power. Each new panel/ micro inverter combination cost about $1,500 installed, not cheap by any point of view. My new system power peaks at only 2.9 kW in perfect Southern California conditions, well below the nominal 4.8 kW. It's cost, without going in details, is well above the expected, considering the large incentives from the government and the drastic reduction in pv price/Watt. The new tariffs on Chinese products will only increase the cost to the consumers. I love my solar systems but the industry has been plagued from the beginning by false advertisement and less than reliable business owners, ready to take advantage of Government programs and consumers alike. Only there to make a quick $ and move on to the next gold mine. Thank you. Mauro
I worked for a company in the noughties that made laser scribing machines. We built many machines for scribing and patterning thin film solar panels, back when the goal was a Dollar per watt, and thin film looked like the only way of achieving that. We only ever built one machine for producing Cadmium Telluride panels however. Most of our machines had fairly robust dust extraction systems for removing ablated material, but for our CdTe machine we put more design time and effort into the extract system than the laser system itself. Like asbestos, CdTe isn't a problem when it's bonded within a panel, but as dust, it's nasty stuff. By the way, while we would always write it as CdTe, we would say cad-tel rather than c-d-t-e. I would say though that the efficiency of thin film solar does make it ideal for BIPV (Building Integrated PV) and I suspect that the same goes for vertical panel and agrivoltaic installations, where a the lower efficiency can be offset by the potential lower cost per watt when pure watt/sq.m yield is less important.
@@ltandrepants Cheaper Energy is really the last thing on the list of reasons to go Solar. And now that the Value of your Solar System is starting to be recovered by the increase in Value of your Home, the initial cost is largely irrelevant too. It will be the single greatest upgrade to your home soon. Currently, a Bathroom or Kitchen Remodel have the greatest returns.
@ltandrepants it is cheaper energy, not sure what you're on about... Where I live my solar system refunds itself after 6 or 7 years, after that it's just free energy. So yes, of course the goal of solar is cheaper energy. If it was not, nobody would be interested in installing solar on private home.
@@tiloaloSo it’s not cheaper unless you use it for 7 years. Other reasons that may beat out cheaper energy for some: 1. Energy independence. 2. The environment. I’d consider both of those worthy reasons that may push saving money to the bottom of the pros list for some people.
In my house, probably not. With the limited space I have on my roof for solar panels, that efficiency gap is going to be the key to getting my business. I'd also be concerned with the toxicity of microfragments from a damaged solar panel in a home environment - especially given how Cadmium acts as a heavy metal, making poisoning via the slow absorption of tiny quantities over time a possibility. I'd certainly like to know more about how Cadmium Telluride Solar Cells stack up against Silicon Cells in the harsh environment of the Australian outback: • Staggeringly hot temperatures reaching 60°C. • Omnipresent exposure to the slightly conductive, fine red dust (composed of various Iron Oxides), which can both adhere to the panels with static charge to occlude the panels & get into (unprotected) essential circuitry, causing shorts.
CdTe has lower efficiency, but there are two benefits that Matt didn't touch on: they are much cheaper than silicon panels (between 1/3 and 2/3 the cost per watt), and their efficiency losses at higher temperatures are lower than silicon, so on hot days, they make up some of the efficiency penalty vs silicon. The cost advantage is somewhat offset by having special inverter requirements that the installers need to be aware of, and with few installers working with CdTe at all, that could be an issue. But if you have the space to meet your needs with CdTe panels, they are probably a better option than silicon.
Having worked in the utility silicon solar industry for many years, I can assure everyone, CdTe won’t catch silicon as it’s efficiency will always remain much lower and cost, much higher, and silicon modules are starting to overlay transparent thin film over silicon modules now, called HJT cells, to offer: 32-40% efficiencies. It’s all about price in utility modules and silicon is almost 1/2 the price of CdTe. Cadmium modules have been saying for many years that they’ll increase efficiency, and it doesn’t happen.
Yeah that is the missing important information that I was waiting for. Just looked it up. They cost a little less but are less efficient and need more space so that their output per $ is smaller . ChatGot got found the numbers CdTe , 0,07 USD per kWh silicon, 0,06 USD per kWh
I am curious as to what work is being done on placing PV Panels on the roof of trailers of EV Trucks? If one looks at the roof of a trailer the area is considerable and could house a number of PV panels supply a percentage of charge to the battery. What is the drawbacks of such an arrangement and what if anything can be done to make this economical or even feasible?
Well, then it's a question of when silicon doesn't have any gains left to make, isn't it? It was suggested in the video that the theoretical max is higher for cdte than silicon.
Initial thoughts after the intro: Cadmium is a real nasty substance and also rare, so we shouldn't really be using it in tech and mining and disposal chains that risk environmental contamination. Maybe if recycling chains were mandated by law to be maintained y the companies fabricating tech, and if severe (jail, hundreds of millions or billions in fines) penalties for improper disposal, and cleanup crews (storm or disaster damaged arrays) help as well, then maybe ... but I still think we should focus on tech that won't poison us so readily.
After video: Nice to see the recycling loop is mostly closed. The bigger concern remains the lower efficiency. There might be niche applications for mobile home or trailer installs where the benefits of lower weight saves fuel that would equal of exceed the amount of additional fuel needed to move more efficient but heavier silicon panels, as well as extra fuel burnt in CdTe systems to run a generator to make up the difference. This would be use-case dependent, where the difference between panel weights is significant compared to vehicle weight, as well as the frequency of moving the vehicle.
@@Warp9pnt9CIGS panels are also light, tough and truly flexible (never flex the "flexible" silicon panels!), though less efficient. Also they're expensive but I have it on hearsay that they could be cheaper, if they had higher production runs. Only one company really sells them; BougeRV. They also seemingly got off to a rocky start with some other company that sold them first getting a bad batch, witj crappy glue, that delaminated. This had nothing to do with the CIGS technology itself but cemented "CIGS = Scam" in a lot of people's minds (probably the same sort who constantly obsess over ROI and still use lead-acid. Just enjoy your free electricity bro)
Seeing as we've already been using it to power camcorders back in the day up to today's cordless screwdrivers, drills, and anything else that can be made for a price from china it literally can't be that rare can it ? 🤔
Can confirm. I've been heavily involved using first solar CdTe panels for about 3 GW over the past four years. To take it a step further, First Solar specifically were huge since covid. Many of the biggest EPCs and utility companies in the country weren't able to get overseas manufactured panels, so they used First Solar. The downside with these is that compared to silicon based panels from overseas, you need a lot more copper wire for FS6 or FS7 panels. You can typically only hook up 6 or 7 FS panels in series. Most other panels are 20+ panels in series.
Most reputable EPC companies use the CdTe for solar farms in the Southwest and south, but many still try to sneak SI modules in from slave nations and pocket the money through kickbacks and other means. If you look at the 20 GW+ already in the field, I’d say they are very popular for larger projects when the developer can get them. Many small time 2 bit firms can not buy these modules as they do not have the credit rating or cash to pay for them.
@@noname-FJBlol, the last part is wrong. I am in Pakistan and I emailed them back in 2015 showing interest and I think they have some American arrogance as they didn't reply. So, I had to go for Solar frontier panels and finally after 10 years I am just sticking to Chinese Solar panels as efficiency difference has gone a lot farther than it was back then.
@@ameerm4899well, your 22 IMF loans and the loans you have from China makes it very difficult to do business with your country. But for you, Chinese panels will of course be a lot cheaper and cost efficient than anything from the US unless the Americans discover something really groundbreaking. China already has decades of production experience and economy of scale for their solar panels, the rest of the world is playing catch-up.
@@ameerm4899 It has nothing to do with arrogance. Their entire future inventory is already spoken for for the next 2 years. The factories in the US don't export anything overseas.
Any idea why you're more limited in how many First Solar panel you can hook up in series? I presume it's nothing inherent in the technology, so something they could improve in theory?
I have solar on my house. Love it so far. I looked into First Solar as a U.S. made product for a fun little project on the side. On the site I was looking at they discouraged "home usage" First Solar is more focused on commercial sites, their point was the panels have to be larger for same output. Makes sense. I think they also mentioned better efficiency at lower light levels. So more on cloudy days than silicon.
Thx for this vid report! It's awesome to see solar panels advancing and achieving next levels. It will be awesome to review progress in this field in about a decade. Let's also not forget that recycling of the solar panels plays a huge part in the circular economy reusing these precious material over again.
As far as I remember CdTe performs better at higher temperatures as well, compared to Si where the efficiency drops sharply. This may be particularly important when it comes to solar farms in the desert. At work I have been using CdTe detectors for x-ray research and one of the big problem was thickness uniformity (at much higher thicknesses as for solar use though). I don't know whether these issues have been solved. Problem remains the low abundance of Te though.
The LARQ impressed me so muchI just purchased the 34 Oz bottle to see how well it works and protect myself from the crap coming out of the tap since I drink a lot of water. And because Matt recommended it for his audience. Ok, so very interested in a different type of panel since ours were installed ion 2017 and my neighbor’s array that is 12 months old is half my size and he is punching out more credits per month than I am on my bill!!!
I remember seeing something about how making a rough layer absorbs more light and boosts silicon efficiency by making sure the light has more odds of getting absorbed before bouncing out, so maybe that'll work well for this. Random pattertns with less right angles worked the best, and I think it was getting a descent slice extra but I can't remember how much exactly. Silicon wafers can just be etched directly, but on these a manufacturer can etch the layer that the CdTe is going onto, and the process isn't changed much with either method. It's not theoretical perfection but it could definitely help make solar expand even faster. Also mirrors and cooling paint can be used to create simple structures that absorb more energy more effectively with more solar panels in a box or something, or cooled ones under concentrated light. Putting this here in case it gives someone the right idea i suppose.
Added bonus for North Americans, CdTe is the best solar cell that can be made here. Since North America doesn't process Si wafer like it used to, it's very valuable from a supply chain perspective that CdTe is such a strong alternative to Si.
If you are into automation and get a chance to visit their factory take it the process is almost entirely automated, it's super cool. Also heads up you probably won't be putting these on your house the modules are way too big, and have a high VOC ~ 400V. Residential solar in the US maxes out at 600. Also one downside of thin film modules is that they can be damaged by water droplets. In the manual it actually warns you to not wash in the sun cause the water droplets focus the sunlight and burn tiny holes through the film.
The difference between CdTe and table salt is, we don't have to ship truckloads of nasty Na and tankers full of cleansing Cl across the country to make our nice benign compound. Any site where Cadmium emerges as a (by)product is a potential problem.
The one thing to note is, we are already producing both elements at scale as they are byproducts of mining copper and other metals. Combining the elements negates the toxic effects as opposed to putting them back in the ground at higher concentrations.
I well remember having a H&S inspector going round our site, where we had some processes using radioisotopes, a nickel plating plant, vacuum brazing and we handled a lot of lead, copper and zinc. The inspector said to me "You don't use cadmium or mercury then?" "Not at all." "Well, you've got nothing to worry about."
@@EbenBransome I was going to bid a set of plans for a federal building off the beach here in California. They call out for Cadmium plated screws for salt water resistance on the exterior. Funny thing is Cadmium has been banned for plating since 2003 in California and the distributor thought I was crazy for even inquiring about it.
Not to mention that pie charts are the second worst way of graphically presenting information, better only than tilted pie charts. Bar charts are superior.
ROI is always the determining factor. How long does it take to recoup the costs associated with a solar installation? With traditional solar panels, especially residential, you never recoup the costs - the panels and batteries degrade before you ever see any profit.
Can't believe I got here with the video uploaded 32 seconds ago. What a treat to get my coffee break at the same time as some of my favourite media. I love just have a think and undecided I actually rewatch some of the videos especially the one on Hydrothermal carbonization and would love an update and expansion on that project and similar projects. Thank you undecided
7:27 This gave me flashbacks. I've made 4 of these. It looks the same so I assume it's the same. It's a standard for testing glass and I despise it for how it can deform so easily. Anyways, it's quite literally a punching bag filled will 100lbs of lead shot. The kicker is that the back is full at around 80lbs and it takes a long time to pack more in to get it to near 100lbs. The bag is then taped with glass tape, and then you stop once it reaches 100lbs. ugh.... I honestly didn't know about CdTe and love the way you explained it Matt!
Never been a huge First Solar fan but AM impressed with their recycling program which tracks everything they sell from cradle to collection to remanufacture. CdTe may be a toxic rare earth metal, but it's used as sparingly as possible.
Can CdTe panels be used in tandem with Perovskite Panels the same manner that Si PV Panels are? Would this improve their efficiency? Have CdTe panels been used as an onboard charging system in vehicles? If they are "thin" then the weight should be less than Si PV Panels making them better suited for onboard charging of batteries in EV Vehicles. This could have applications in Electric Trucks with the roof of a truck trailer covered with panels and that could contribute to the recharging of the onboard battery.
Phew, I thought this was just going to be another one of those pervoskite videos again! Now this video was informative as I always thought silicon solar cells used cadmium, didnt realise its a different technology altogether, not sure if its wise to use them being so toxic, but the pervoskite cells also use heavy metals such as lead, so some sort of recycling program would need to be implemented going forward with the use of these.
I would have loved some kind of cost comparison between these technologies, since that is a key factor in adoption. I understand that price comparisons are difficult and that they should be taken with a grain of salt but it’s an important metric in the viability of a technology.
How easily can cadmium telluride break down back into it's toxic elements? When I hear people say they're afraid of panels breaking and leaking toxic material I thought they were crazy, but then we have panels like these, and you have to wonder if this is what they latched onto to drive those concerns. I'm more for silicon with perovskite layer to boost efficiency.
A UK manufacturer is already making a pervoskite/silicone solar panel with 24% efffiency in the real world. 28% in the lab. "Just have a think" just released a video on it. Even touching on the Chinese. Pervoskites are here, and better. Screw this toxic crap. Even I know Cadmium is not to be trifled with. Imagine having million of houses having these in say... Florida. Getting wiped out by a hurricane spreading broken pieces and leaching into the ground. No thanks.
it doesn't break down as much as NaCl doesn't, it's stable. EPA say it pass their tests of long-term leaching, meaning the EPA considers it safe to dispose. the problem however is that the EPA is the only one that updated their classification, so we don't have independent verification of its safety from other agencies.
While CdTe panels are more stable than many other electronic wastes, there are still concerns about their disposal in landfills: pH and Redox Conditions: The leaching behavior of CdTe can vary depending on the pH and redox conditions in landfills, which are influenced by microbial activity. Long-term Stability: Although short-term studies show low leaching potential, the long-term behavior (over decades) in landfill conditions is less certain. Regulatory Considerations: In some jurisdictions, CdTe panels may fail the Toxicity Characteristic Leaching Procedure (TCLP) test, requiring disposal in hazardous waste landfills.
The real final boss! Love how he added that lol. That's not what's important what is the fact this guy creates well structured content in extreme detail!! I enjoy the no fluff informative content 👌
Having a research background in the field I found this to be one of the best description of the field of CdTe. I wish this video was around when I started my PhD.
Intriguing take on Cadmium telluride panels! The mention of copper doping's impact on lifespan really highlights how innovation can unlock new efficiencies. Exciting to think about where this tech could go next.
Sweet! I just graduated with a BS in physics and almost every internship I did was around researching these solar panels from computational estimates to physical experiments in Ohio! It’s excited to see it get some public hype!!!
Regarding the Larq promo: real UV sterilizers for water keep the fluid in very close proximity to the bulb (a few mm is typical for aquarium or domestic water units) because sterilization efficiency drops off very quickly due to the water absorbing the UV. It strikes me as highly implausible that the LED in this thing is going to be sanitizing or sterilizing anything in any meaningful way. Perhaps a completely empty container, maybe. But a 6 inch tall column of water? Doubtful.
For UV to work effectively the water has to be filtered to 5 microns or less, otherwise shadows from the particles in suspension get in the way of the light. However, if the water is subjected to the UV for long enough, and in a highly reflective container it will all get hit with enough radiation to zap all of the bugs. It's a question of UV intensity, overall coverage and time.
First Solar just opened a plant in Trinity Alabama. I think the word was it cost 1 BILLION dollars to build. That will take a lot of panels to recoup that investment. Starting pay seems to $15.00 an hour. Maybe they will be around a while. Also my local utility company does not support grid tie systems, but TVA does.
Assuming an average panel output of 500 watts that means the plant would produce 2 million panels per year. Also, Governor Ivey described it as a partnership with the state of Alabama. Plants like these usually receive grants/low interest loans and/or tax breaks to build in a particular state. The Governor's language seems to imply some funding from the state is likely, not to mention IRA Federal funds.
I got to tour First Solar's factory a couple years ago and it was seriously impressive. It's almost completely automated, so there is very little worker input needed. They've since opened another larger factory in OH and a new one in GA as well.
Nitpick: electroN-volt, not electro-volt. It's the amount of energy imparted to a single electron when accelerated through a 1 volt potential difference.
Hey Matt, Having conducted some due diligence on the FSLR facility in Perrysburg back around 2007 on a day that they made a significant performance breakthrough I would say that from a health and safety standpoint it's a top notch operation given the toxicity issues. For added context Thinfilms like CdTe emerged as a promising alternative to silicon in order to counter to the supply shortages and high prices. However, where thin film falls short is the additional land requirement and BOS costs for solar farms especially in jurisdictions where land availability is a consideration.
My biggest concern with solar is their durability in severe weather. Hail is quite common here in Nebraska, golf ball size and larger, which will damage panels quite easily.
The biggest issue with CdTe is, what happens when we need more than just the byproducts? Even right now CdTe Panels are barely competitive to silicon. And Silicon Panels are already dirt cheap. So much even that they aren't even the main part of the cost of building a solar farm. Silicon Panels also still get cheaper by the day.
Would love to know the weight ratio/difference between the two. It seems that thinner and lighter may have some commercial scale use cases, with engineering requirements for roofs or other structures that bear the load.
Efficiency isn't everything, or even the name of the game. COST is the name of the game. Efficiency can help as long as cost remains the same. If I'm a large solar farm a big concern isn't 375W vs. 400W/panel. It's ROI. If the land space I have to occupy is cheap, and the infrastructure for the panels is cheap, then my main concern is cost/watt of continuous power. It's all a balancing act and other factors play into decisions.
Dave Borlace of the RUclips channel Just Have A Think had a video last weekend about Perovskite solar panels are now for the first time produced and sold commercially, with efficiencies of over 30%! A company in the UK seems to have found a solution for the longevity of Perovskite and started commercial production, selling them in the USA. Worth to check out I think. If I want to swap my current panels for new ones they must be more efficient so I can poroduce more energy with the same roof area. So I do not think CDTe will finds its way to my roof.. Perovskite in the future for sure!
Lol, yeah we could have a market for small electric furnaces to smelt and use steel and aluminum even boosting industrial production if that 35% efficiency became available. We are still a lot happy with the 23% we are getting compared to the 11-13% 10 years ago
What is the efficiency of a leaf converting light to fuel to silicon and CdTe? How do they compare? Enjoyed! Informative and well written, perfect pace and relevant topics brief and concise. Thank you! 🩷🧡💛💚💙🩵💜❤️
There’s one big advantage you said but didn’t go into any detail on for CdTe. Durability! The cell is flexible so, there’s no cracking under the glass. This is big in areas that are prone to hail. A hailstorm can hit a site with crystalline modules and you may not see any physical damage but once you take a look with thermal or EL imagining you may see cracked cells.
I'm okay with cadmium, mercury, uranium or whatever, toxic or non-toxic. As long as longevity is close to market and as long as there is a very high sustainablity and renewablility at scale. If efficiency, location buildout, cost per watt output, etc. is higher, I'm okay with that metric long term.
Their roof is not massive at the scale required to generate solar power in bulk. The same panels can be installed elsewhere to generate just as much power. Why complicate the building envelope of a complex manufacturing facility with another thing that gets in the way if you have to repair, remediate, or renovate? You use suspicion because it is cognitively cheap. Why think when you can merely suspect?
Why? Lots of companies including the one I work for find more financial value in selling their product than in using it. It could just be that that their electricity costs locally are low enough that it makes more sense to sell the panels than to install them. Or maybe they can't get a 1:1 NEM agreement and that kills the incentive.
@@ltandrepants because it's a different technology that have niche uses since it's thinner and lighter. and this channel is about reporting about different technologies we don't usually hear about.
The biggest factor is tariffs on imports. First Solar's supply chain is independent of China, no matter who wins the election, both Harris and Trump have plans to increase tariffs on Chinese solar panels. One out of every 5 solar panels in the US is still significant. FSLR did $4 Billion in sales last year and is basically sold out already for next year's production.
The heat tolerance is a major factor. It really depends on the placement and ventilation around the panels. I'd also imagine having less weight for panels over parking lots saves a lot on steel cost
Got to admit, I'd never heard of CdTe panels before. The only application I'd ever seen for Cadmium, over Silicon, was in the light meter of my old Pentax ME Super film camera. And guess what, it was a superior meter too. I guess the point is, Silicon is so damn plentiful, and latest Perovskite added in tandem development models are pushing well past the Shockley-Queisser limit, as far as 43% in the lab. Yes, Perovskite is that super material that let's itself down by quickly degrading in sunlight, of all things, but that is quietly, if slowly, being solved. I guess CdTe will find its place in the mix. It looks like a great alternative and there is certainly a vast market to fill. Incidentally, when you say 2nd most common panels, I'd love to see a bar chart of the percentages.
First Solar is the largest solar panel producer in the western hemisphere and has been for some time. The other western players are now defunct or close to it. All the rest is Chinese with their "go large" mandate from Xi and a lot of subsidies and coal power and forced labor in the case of silicon ingot.
Great video. I agree, it’s cool to improve on but having to have a 30% bigger solar farm for now shouldn’t be considered. Already not a fan of solar farms though. Taking up valuable habitat or farm land. Air ports have lots of grass, maybe put them there?
Very informative! Never heard of the technology, but based on the comments from those that have used these cells, I can think of great use cases. Extra federal credit for US based manufacturing and material sourcing can mitigate the lower efficiency. I these can be biracial, then when used in the vertical, the smaller string size is fine in a homestead agrivoltaic application. Lots of niche use cases
With solar, you can avoid many of the "moving parts problems" with wind and other renewables. If you can produce the solar panel for a 30 years lifecycle with just a few years of the energy produced by the panels, and high degree of end of life recycling, this could be a very good alternative both to other solar panels and other renewables in general.
I remember seeing Perovskite panels in a video doing a lab tour in Korea a couple of years ago. I completely forgot what they were called before I saw that bronzy gold colour. Hopefully researchers can find some way to make them stick up to the elements without affecting performance too much. But also, CdTe isn't just a niche product, it's a needed product. In a world constantly using flexible solar panels, I can definitely see the use for it, since it is so thin and lightweight, while also balancing efficiency.
The thin film description got my attention. I just assumed it would weigh less and maybe thinner for Boats & RVs. Unfortunately the link to their website showed specs that were larger and heavier than other brands I am about to buy. I'm looking for panels to place on pergolas, patio covers, and sun shades with a waterproof structure that allows panel expansion.
I'd want to know how the whole life cost works - including recycling into new panels - as you say, the separate materials are very toxic, which means recycling could be more complicated than silica based products.
Matt, look into what First Solar is doing with quantum dots. It'll replace cdte. They're keep it under wraps at the moment, but I'm sure we'll start hearing more about it soon.
Next time you're at the optometrist, you should ask for a colorblindness test. There are tons of people that live deep into their adult years without knowing they have a form of colorblindness. Almost all the people that join the military and are told they're colorblind; are surprised and had no idea.
@@ameerm4899 Yeah, its nothing to be ashamed of. I have DOZENS of colorblind coworkers in the military. And it's almost ubiquitous that they had no idea until they military told them while they were going through the rigorous medical process to join that they were informed of it. @ameerm4899 just needs to go ask for the test. Only then can their type and severity be identified and maybe they can be fitted with corrective eye wear so that they can see the world with the same beauty as the rest of us.
Honestly, the tech i am most interested in is the replacement of silver in solar panels with copper, or preferably aluminium. That would remove the last remaining rare materials from solar production, which i feel is an essential step to drop the price of solar another 10x.
@UndecidedMF , I live in Cincinnati, OH & as I drive around and see the roofs of houses, Apartments, Business, etc. I see wasted potential from the Power companies. Why don't power companies negotiate with homeowners & business owners to utilize their roof for solar power production? As a Homeowner, I'd be willing to lease my roof to the power company, contingent on them maintaining my roof and offering me a discount on my bill. My home is perfect for solar because it is in the path of the sun from sun up to sundown. It seems like a missed opportunity.
had the same thought. why use something edgy when silicon is around for 30 years and works perfect. i know so many people which have silicon on the roof, since 20 years. it still works as is intended to do. of course, lose of some efficiency, but still works.
I really like seeing some diverse technologies and this seems like a really relevant one, to develop further. The thing that struck me was that the thin film aspect seems under utilized. If the efficiency needs it to have 31% larger areas, we should use it in areas where it can shine lige solar shingles or other applications, where lightweightness an thinnes are a real factor (maybe solar roofs in cars etc.)
Making two toxic materials inert is win in itself. Price is more important than efficiency if space is available. Recycling is essential because of the materials. Interesting technology, though perovskite might win in the end anyway.
What's the cost difference? For many middle & low income communities, cost may play a significant role in choice of panel - although it's the inverter & batteries than are the most expensive component of a solar system?
When I look at residential installations then space is not an issue. There's always plenty of roof space left after setting up PV. It's more of an issue for large scale power plants, though...as there cost of land does make up a significant part of the capital expenditure.
Once they get the efficiency to the same level, the weight reduction could actually prove very beneficial to residential PV renovations. Since it weighs less, it would reduce the need for roofing/truss modifications to support the higher weight load. I think this is a good thing for everybody. Yes, the recycling is critical, but that should only be a process limitation, not an absolute limit.
You end asking if CdTe panels are something I'd use, and the answer is 'eventually'. I'd be using them for a home PV setup, and I have limited roof space. Once CdTe matches or exceeds Silicon in efficiency, then it becomes a strong contender. After that, we need to compare price over the life of the system.
Just wondering about the cost vs silicon. It would be interesting if you had done a cost analysis helping us to understand the payoff difference in a residential setting.
Big questions are if not recycled, does it break down so cadmium is the best exposed or in the ground? Not good. Ditto for Arsenic? Thin enough to layer on glass for a window?
Good video. On the numbers point though, this is missing a key piece of information - what’s the capex cost for CdTe vs Silicon. Unless there’s a major advantage in usable life/degradation/maintenance capex, if CdTE is 30% less efficient then very simplified math is that a panel producing the same energy output needs to be 30% cheaper to be cost competitive. If it’s not, why would you buy one vs silicon?
as meyer burger has shown, you can make lead free silicon pv panels - which you can even dump into landfills without much to worry about. and there will always be some percentage of panels which will end up that way. with CdTe panels that isn't such a great idea, as cadmium will poison ground water.
are there any companies experimenting with combining CdTe, perovskite, and silicon based panels? seems to me that if someone could find a way to combine these materials in the right way, they could create a much better panel than each of these materials alone.
First Solar and it's recently acquired research teams to go along with it's current R&D teams in OH and Silicon Valley, comprising the largest solar research expenditures in the industry.
Hi Matt, where is the solar panel industry at in terms of panels that look like regular roof tiles. Specifically slate roof tiles. I was, like most, enamored with Tesla's Solar Roof presentation. It's an aesthetic thing for me. I realize the expense is much greater and it may be a bit of a veblen good, but the market is there.
The question left in my mind is durability under difficult weather conditions such as hail. Thinner likely means lighter, which house roofs would appreciate, but does it also mean less durable in harsher climates?
Considering everyone should know most panels are made of silicon it is weird there always seems to be at least one guy saying solar panels are toxic because supposedly panels are only made of stuff like cadmium telluride and gallium arsenic, and clearly panels designed for outdoor use actually break down from rain or something.
Is CdTe something you’d want on your house or project? Order yourself a LARQ Bottle PureVis 2 to go plastic free and enjoy ice cold water throughout the entire day. bylarq.com/undecidedpv2
If you liked this, check out How Compressed Air Batteries are FINALLY Here ruclips.net/video/VS05y9mQgbw/видео.html
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5607867/
nope, this is terrible idea, far from value of ''green energy''... elimination pathway of Cd involves brain, not to mentioned how it affects carcinogenesis, mutagenesis and destruction of the metabolic pathways associated with energy production in the human body.
The app is actually useful, especially for people like me who tunnel vision while working and keeo forgetting to stay hydrated.
Don't like plastic waste associated with drinking water? Buy this radio, battery, plastic, and disposable, proprietary filters only meant for a single person! Sorry, just pointing out the irony there.
Please stop pronouncing NREL as en-are-ee-el. Everybody at NREL, including its director Martin Keller who I just met on Sept 27 at the Colorado School of Mines, pronounce it en-rel. Your excellent podcasts are influential, and I'd appreciate if you could get the small things correct, too. Thank you!
CdTe and any other thin film, should really concentrate on making a structural backing.
I don't want thin film solar panels on my wings, I want a slightly stretchy, wrap like material, instead of a traditional canvas wrap.
Then I can make my spars out of carbon fiber instead of wood.
Etc.
My use case, is my idea for a flying e-bike conversion kit.
I want to be able to park and charge the wing elements, while riding the bike element.
I'm a big fan from Lebanon, I love your videos Matt!
Solar saved our lives! We have 1 to 2h a day maximum of grid coverage so we just installed a 4kw solar setup and just cancelled the government grid.
We're saving a ton on bills, spending it elsewhere and living fully on green power :)
The setup is small, so we manually regulate things like on hours for fridge, etc..
Stay safe.
Can you tell us more about your experience with using solar power in Lebanon?
Many people here wonder if solar can be used as a prepper solution.
Thanks.
@@fuzzy-02 are you in an urban area or the country side?
Stay safe - I hope your people come through the current troubles without issue.
@@mickmccarthy8925 there is no urban area or country side, the nation is very small but very mountaineous.
I live on 420m elevation with a lot of humidity and clouds.
The only intense power sucker is the fridge, which we turn on at varying times.
During summer, clouds are minimal and the 4 520W panels are working a lot of the day, so we keep it on from 6 am to 7 pm.
In autumn its more cloudy and less sun so the fridge goes on from 7 am to 6 pm.
I winter its very dependent on the weather, but at worst we turn it off an hour or so during its on hours.
For heating water to bath and shower, we have a gas setup, its cheaper then electricity around here.
We're also very careful with the batteries (2x250A) and the load.
Aside from the fridge we really don't have anything that sucks power with high amperage.
My gaming pc is on the lower end, I can keep it running pretty much always.
Lastly, the trick to solar, I found, is to minimize consumption when the sun is setting, where the panels are barely charging and turning on anything besides lights and wifi make it stop charging the batteries. This is about a 1h period here so we just let it charge.
Perhaps it is illogical, but that's just how I handle all my electronics: don't overstress them and keep them happy.
I have an old laptop with an i3 2nd gen, 4gm ram, and an hdd, its terrible and should have died years ago but its still kixking even after 11 years.
Same with solar, its a game of load balancing
@@ktefccre sure.
My house is full of LED lamps, barely use 20W at most.
2 250A batteries and 4 520W panels have been doing a great job. Although it gets frustrating during some winter days with full on cloud and no heat from the sun, we never pass a day without lights and a working fridge.
Heating for the shower is gas-powered, so the only power suckers in the house that impose a heavy load are the fridge and the iron (for clothes).
Fridge runs an average of 8h, 12 during the summer, 6 at worst during winter.
I live in a very humid area with a lot of clouds too.
If I lived in a country side with minimal Cloud, solar would be a blast! Though it would be more terrible in the freezing winters Id assume too.
So yeah, the biggest power consumers in the house are iron, fridge, washing machine (forgot to mention it in the other comment), and then my pc at 100W at most.
1V in the Inverter's battery charge panel is equivalent to 500 Watts, since we have 2 250A batteries (1v x 500A = 500 Watts)
That means the Pc at very high load might take a singular watt in 5 hours.
On a regular day with 8 hours of sun light, you can say we have about 3 volts or 1,500W to work with.
You might think its nothing because of the fridge, washing machine, etc, but these don't use much power in practice because we run them during sunlight hours, so the pressure is offloaded from the batteries.
Idk if my explanations make sense but its a humble setup with minimal consumption.
The most important factor is to keeo watch on things and take care of your appliances
I like that it diversifies the supply chain for solar panels so that if there is disruption in silicon production we have mature alternatives.
Also, market competition will help keep pricing competitive.
This is great for management. Always have a plan B.
I agree. Many people will fall back to SI if CDTE are unavailable.
It is necessary to have a second choice.
That point is barely relevant. Silicon is omnipresent on earth and due to the wide use and huge market there is a multitude of suppliers. Mankind has no way to run out of silicon in the foreseeable future. Meanwhile cadmium is a toxic heavy metal the world is trying to get rid off. This is a concern primarily during production and disposal. Tellurium is toxic as well but due to low solubility this is a less grave issue than cadmium. Meanwhile the tellurium sport price has recently peaked at 110 USD/kg and barely fallen since and predicted to continue to rise. The situation is broadly similar to rare earths where there is only a small number of suppliers for the world market and among those again China is by far the largest supplier. TeCd cells are relatively cheap in manufacturing and the material is being researched for a very long time already but from a strategic perspective I think the alternatives are preferable. Perovskite cells are looking like they might have a bright future and like their problems - namely the longevity - will be overcome in due time. And then there's the promise of multi-junction cells to overcome the Shockley-Queisser limit.
Another word for silicon is SAND. Not exactly a hot supply chain ticket.
The cool thing about CdTe that you mentioned. They are waste products of 2 VERY widely used metals AND they both don't really have any other uses. So CdTe panels will always have a supply of raw material for not too much money.
Cd is a widely used metal, but it's not as ubiquitous as sand.
@@runcycleskixc Cadmium is used as a hardener and anti-rust cladding on nuts and bolts. It's everywhere.
@@CorwinPatrick Cd content in Earth crust: ~0.1-0.5 ppm. Si content in Earth crust: ~25%.
@@runcycleskixc mine some asteroids
CDTe is less affected by heat, so it works well in a hot desert.
It always shocks me to see a solar panel manufacturer that doesn't have their solar panels all over the roofs of their buildings.
Right??
First Solar did just install them on their hq in Tempe and their factories in Alabama and Pennsylvania.
They have no facilities in PA. Maybe you mean OH? @@MustachioFurioso9134
There are panels on top of their earlier buildings. The one earlier in the video is pretty new. Not sure when the flyover was filmed
They are currently covering their parking lots
@@factchecker9358 yeah, OH sorry.
Thank you, good news, as usual.
I am a early adopter of PV solar energy. In 1980 I installed my first PV panel on my boat. In 2007 I had a contractor putting one on my roof.
Back then the cost of panels was about $8 /watt. Nowadays it is possible to buy PV panels for about $0.75/watt in the US and $0.25/watt in Europe.
My first roof system is made with 32 Kyocera 175 Watt panels and two TRACE grid inverters.
Except for some inverter malfunctions, taken care under warranty, I had no issues and after 15 years the system still produce good power, peaking at 4.8 kw on a sunny day.
About 18 months ago, lured in by the California rebates, I installed an additional 4.8 kw system + 20 kWh storage batteries.
The new 12 panels have a nominal max power of 400 Watts and an efficiency of 0.22%. Each panel is coupled with a micro inverter capable of converting and transforming up to 290 Watts. This is because the smaller micro inverters are less expensive and have a better efficiency at lower power.
Each new panel/ micro inverter combination cost about $1,500 installed, not cheap by any point of view.
My new system power peaks at only 2.9 kW in perfect Southern California conditions, well below the nominal 4.8 kW. It's cost, without going in details, is well above the expected, considering the large incentives from the government and the drastic reduction in pv price/Watt. The new tariffs on Chinese products will only increase the cost to the consumers.
I love my solar systems but the industry has been plagued from the beginning by false advertisement and less than reliable business owners, ready to take advantage of Government programs and consumers alike. Only there to make a quick $ and move on to the next gold mine.
Thank you.
Mauro
Thanks...
I worked for a company in the noughties that made laser scribing machines. We built many machines for scribing and patterning thin film solar panels, back when the goal was a Dollar per watt, and thin film looked like the only way of achieving that. We only ever built one machine for producing Cadmium Telluride panels however.
Most of our machines had fairly robust dust extraction systems for removing ablated material, but for our CdTe machine we put more design time and effort into the extract system than the laser system itself. Like asbestos, CdTe isn't a problem when it's bonded within a panel, but as dust, it's nasty stuff.
By the way, while we would always write it as CdTe, we would say cad-tel rather than c-d-t-e.
I would say though that the efficiency of thin film solar does make it ideal for BIPV (Building Integrated PV) and I suspect that the same goes for vertical panel and agrivoltaic installations, where a the lower efficiency can be offset by the potential lower cost per watt when pure watt/sq.m yield is less important.
Cut plastics from your life by ordering plastic bottle with one time use filters encapsulated in plastic you will have to replace
this world is weird sometimes! like spending so much money for a solar system when the objective is cheaper energy!
@@ltandrepants Cheaper Energy is really the last thing on the list of reasons to go Solar. And now that the Value of your Solar System is starting to be recovered by the increase in Value of your Home, the initial cost is largely irrelevant too. It will be the single greatest upgrade to your home soon. Currently, a Bathroom or Kitchen Remodel have the greatest returns.
@ltandrepants it is cheaper energy, not sure what you're on about...
Where I live my solar system refunds itself after 6 or 7 years, after that it's just free energy. So yes, of course the goal of solar is cheaper energy. If it was not, nobody would be interested in installing solar on private home.
As someone working on an asteroid mining company, hearing “the value of your solar system is increasing” is a bit jarring.
@@tiloaloSo it’s not cheaper unless you use it for 7 years. Other reasons that may beat out cheaper energy for some:
1. Energy independence.
2. The environment.
I’d consider both of those worthy reasons that may push saving money to the bottom of the pros list for some people.
In my house, probably not. With the limited space I have on my roof for solar panels, that efficiency gap is going to be the key to getting my business. I'd also be concerned with the toxicity of microfragments from a damaged solar panel in a home environment - especially given how Cadmium acts as a heavy metal, making poisoning via the slow absorption of tiny quantities over time a possibility.
I'd certainly like to know more about how Cadmium Telluride Solar Cells stack up against Silicon Cells in the harsh environment of the Australian outback:
• Staggeringly hot temperatures reaching 60°C.
• Omnipresent exposure to the slightly conductive, fine red dust (composed of various Iron Oxides), which can both adhere to the panels with static charge to occlude the panels & get into (unprotected) essential circuitry, causing shorts.
CdTe has lower efficiency, but there are two benefits that Matt didn't touch on: they are much cheaper than silicon panels (between 1/3 and 2/3 the cost per watt), and their efficiency losses at higher temperatures are lower than silicon, so on hot days, they make up some of the efficiency penalty vs silicon. The cost advantage is somewhat offset by having special inverter requirements that the installers need to be aware of, and with few installers working with CdTe at all, that could be an issue. But if you have the space to meet your needs with CdTe panels, they are probably a better option than silicon.
Having worked in the utility silicon solar industry for many years, I can assure everyone, CdTe won’t catch silicon as it’s efficiency will always remain much lower and cost, much higher, and silicon modules are starting to overlay transparent thin film over silicon modules now, called HJT cells, to offer: 32-40% efficiencies. It’s all about price in utility modules and silicon is almost 1/2 the price of CdTe. Cadmium modules have been saying for many years that they’ll increase efficiency, and it doesn’t happen.
Yeah that is the missing important information that I was waiting for.
Just looked it up.
They cost a little less but are less efficient and need more space so that their output per $ is smaller .
ChatGot got found the numbers
CdTe , 0,07 USD per kWh
silicon, 0,06 USD per kWh
I am curious as to what work is being done on placing PV Panels on the roof of trailers of EV Trucks? If one looks at the roof of a trailer the area is considerable and could house a number of PV panels supply a percentage of charge to the battery. What is the drawbacks of such an arrangement and what if anything can be done to make this economical or even feasible?
Well, then it's a question of when silicon doesn't have any gains left to make, isn't it? It was suggested in the video that the theoretical max is higher for cdte than silicon.
thx for info about price
@@blablup1214 This info ought to have been in the video. Thank you for providing it.
Initial thoughts after the intro: Cadmium is a real nasty substance and also rare, so we shouldn't really be using it in tech and mining and disposal chains that risk environmental contamination. Maybe if recycling chains were mandated by law to be maintained y the companies fabricating tech, and if severe (jail, hundreds of millions or billions in fines) penalties for improper disposal, and cleanup crews (storm or disaster damaged arrays) help as well, then maybe ... but I still think we should focus on tech that won't poison us so readily.
After video: Nice to see the recycling loop is mostly closed. The bigger concern remains the lower efficiency. There might be niche applications for mobile home or trailer installs where the benefits of lower weight saves fuel that would equal of exceed the amount of additional fuel needed to move more efficient but heavier silicon panels, as well as extra fuel burnt in CdTe systems to run a generator to make up the difference. This would be use-case dependent, where the difference between panel weights is significant compared to vehicle weight, as well as the frequency of moving the vehicle.
@@Warp9pnt9CIGS panels are also light, tough and truly flexible (never flex the "flexible" silicon panels!), though less efficient. Also they're expensive but I have it on hearsay that they could be cheaper, if they had higher production runs. Only one company really sells them; BougeRV. They also seemingly got off to a rocky start with some other company that sold them first getting a bad batch, witj crappy glue, that delaminated. This had nothing to do with the CIGS technology itself but cemented "CIGS = Scam" in a lot of people's minds (probably the same sort who constantly obsess over ROI and still use lead-acid. Just enjoy your free electricity bro)
Well thought.
Seeing as we've already been using it to power camcorders back in the day up to today's cordless screwdrivers, drills, and anything else that can be made for a price from china it literally can't be that rare can it ? 🤔
So you missed the part of it not being toxic when mixed ?
Can confirm. I've been heavily involved using first solar CdTe panels for about 3 GW over the past four years. To take it a step further, First Solar specifically were huge since covid. Many of the biggest EPCs and utility companies in the country weren't able to get overseas manufactured panels, so they used First Solar. The downside with these is that compared to silicon based panels from overseas, you need a lot more copper wire for FS6 or FS7 panels. You can typically only hook up 6 or 7 FS panels in series. Most other panels are 20+ panels in series.
Most reputable EPC companies use the CdTe for solar farms in the Southwest and south, but many still try to sneak SI modules in from slave nations and pocket the money through kickbacks and other means.
If you look at the 20 GW+ already in the field, I’d say they are very popular for larger projects when the developer can get them.
Many small time 2 bit firms can not buy these modules as they do not have the credit rating or cash to pay for them.
@@noname-FJBlol, the last part is wrong. I am in Pakistan and I emailed them back in 2015 showing interest and I think they have some American arrogance as they didn't reply.
So, I had to go for Solar frontier panels and finally after 10 years I am just sticking to Chinese Solar panels as efficiency difference has gone a lot farther than it was back then.
@@ameerm4899well, your 22 IMF loans and the loans you have from China makes it very difficult to do business with your country. But for you, Chinese panels will of course be a lot cheaper and cost efficient than anything from the US unless the Americans discover something really groundbreaking. China already has decades of production experience and economy of scale for their solar panels, the rest of the world is playing catch-up.
@@ameerm4899 It has nothing to do with arrogance. Their entire future inventory is already spoken for for the next 2 years. The factories in the US don't export anything overseas.
Any idea why you're more limited in how many First Solar panel you can hook up in series? I presume it's nothing inherent in the technology, so something they could improve in theory?
I have solar on my house. Love it so far. I looked into First Solar as a U.S. made product for a fun little project on the side. On the site I was looking at they discouraged "home usage" First Solar is more focused on commercial sites, their point was the panels have to be larger for same output. Makes sense. I think they also mentioned better efficiency at lower light levels. So more on cloudy days than silicon.
Thx for this vid report! It's awesome to see solar panels advancing and achieving next levels. It will be awesome to review progress in this field in about a decade. Let's also not forget that recycling of the solar panels plays a huge part in the circular economy reusing these precious material over again.
As far as I remember CdTe performs better at higher temperatures as well, compared to Si where the efficiency drops sharply. This may be particularly important when it comes to solar farms in the desert. At work I have been using CdTe detectors for x-ray research and one of the big problem was thickness uniformity (at much higher thicknesses as for solar use though). I don't know whether these issues have been solved.
Problem remains the low abundance of Te though.
The LARQ impressed me so muchI just purchased the 34 Oz bottle to see how well it works and protect myself from the crap coming out of the tap since I drink a lot of water. And because Matt recommended it for his audience. Ok, so very interested in a different type of panel since ours were installed ion 2017 and my neighbor’s array that is 12 months old is half my size and he is punching out more credits per month than I am on my bill!!!
I remember seeing something about how making a rough layer absorbs more light and boosts silicon efficiency by making sure the light has more odds of getting absorbed before bouncing out, so maybe that'll work well for this. Random pattertns with less right angles worked the best, and I think it was getting a descent slice extra but I can't remember how much exactly. Silicon wafers can just be etched directly, but on these a manufacturer can etch the layer that the CdTe is going onto, and the process isn't changed much with either method. It's not theoretical perfection but it could definitely help make solar expand even faster. Also mirrors and cooling paint can be used to create simple structures that absorb more energy more effectively with more solar panels in a box or something, or cooled ones under concentrated light.
Putting this here in case it gives someone the right idea i suppose.
Added bonus for North Americans, CdTe is the best solar cell that can be made here. Since North America doesn't process Si wafer like it used to, it's very valuable from a supply chain perspective that CdTe is such a strong alternative to Si.
If you are into automation and get a chance to visit their factory take it the process is almost entirely automated, it's super cool. Also heads up you probably won't be putting these on your house the modules are way too big, and have a high VOC ~ 400V. Residential solar in the US maxes out at 600.
Also one downside of thin film modules is that they can be damaged by water droplets. In the manual it actually warns you to not wash in the sun cause the water droplets focus the sunlight and burn tiny holes through the film.
The difference between CdTe and table salt is, we don't have to ship truckloads of nasty Na and tankers full of cleansing Cl across the country to make our nice benign compound. Any site where Cadmium emerges as a (by)product is a potential problem.
The one thing to note is, we are already producing both elements at scale as they are byproducts of mining copper and other metals. Combining the elements negates the toxic effects as opposed to putting them back in the ground at higher concentrations.
@@Ryan-ff2db Yes, good point.
I well remember having a H&S inspector going round our site, where we had some processes using radioisotopes, a nickel plating plant, vacuum brazing and we handled a lot of lead, copper and zinc.
The inspector said to me "You don't use cadmium or mercury then?"
"Not at all."
"Well, you've got nothing to worry about."
@@EbenBransome I was going to bid a set of plans for a federal building off the beach here in California. They call out for Cadmium plated screws for salt water resistance on the exterior. Funny thing is Cadmium has been banned for plating since 2003 in California and the distributor thought I was crazy for even inquiring about it.
@@Ryan-ff2db Shows how rarely they update the standards.
"Just have a think" channel just posted a video stating that Perovskite cells have begun shipping to customers as of Sep 2024.
I thought the problem with perovskite cells was short lifespan?
@@wva5089 they've managed to improve it, apparently, though It'll probably be still lower than traditional panels
@@wva5089 apparently they resolved it well enough to go to market.
@@wva5089I think it's Oxford PV that's started shipping them to commercial customers. The customers are probably doing it as an experiment.
@@wva5089 It was. Watch the vid, or its sources.
I've never heard of Cadmium Telluride solar panels until this video. You provided very useful info about these panels. Great work.
0:25 Just wanted to say, this color scheme in the pie chart is really hard to read, as many colors basically look the same...
@@testthewest123 Jupp, and the order is off and A-Si is not even showing so why include it?
Agreed
Not to mention that pie charts are the second worst way of graphically presenting information, better only than tilted pie charts. Bar charts are superior.
ROI is always the determining factor. How long does it take to recoup the costs associated with a solar installation? With traditional solar panels, especially residential, you never recoup the costs - the panels and batteries degrade before you ever see any profit.
Can't believe I got here with the video uploaded 32 seconds ago. What a treat to get my coffee break at the same time as some of my favourite media. I love just have a think and undecided I actually rewatch some of the videos especially the one on Hydrothermal carbonization and would love an update and expansion on that project and similar projects. Thank you undecided
7:27 This gave me flashbacks. I've made 4 of these. It looks the same so I assume it's the same. It's a standard for testing glass and I despise it for how it can deform so easily. Anyways, it's quite literally a punching bag filled will 100lbs of lead shot. The kicker is that the back is full at around 80lbs and it takes a long time to pack more in to get it to near 100lbs. The bag is then taped with glass tape, and then you stop once it reaches 100lbs. ugh.... I honestly didn't know about CdTe and love the way you explained it Matt!
Never been a huge First Solar fan but AM impressed with their recycling program which tracks everything they sell from cradle to collection to remanufacture. CdTe may be a toxic rare earth metal, but it's used as sparingly as possible.
Can CdTe panels be used in tandem with Perovskite Panels the same manner that Si PV Panels are? Would this improve their efficiency?
Have CdTe panels been used as an onboard charging system in vehicles?
If they are "thin" then the weight should be less than Si PV Panels making them better suited for onboard charging of batteries in EV Vehicles. This could have applications in Electric Trucks with the roof of a truck trailer covered with panels and that could contribute to the recharging of the onboard battery.
One would guess the weight of CdTe is more because of the atomic weight or less because it is thinner?
Phew, I thought this was just going to be another one of those pervoskite videos again! Now this video was informative as I always thought silicon solar cells used cadmium, didnt realise its a different technology altogether, not sure if its wise to use them being so toxic, but the pervoskite cells also use heavy metals such as lead, so some sort of recycling program would need to be implemented going forward with the use of these.
I would have loved some kind of cost comparison between these technologies, since that is a key factor in adoption.
I understand that price comparisons are difficult and that they should be taken with a grain of salt but it’s an important metric in the viability of a technology.
How easily can cadmium telluride break down back into it's toxic elements? When I hear people say they're afraid of panels breaking and leaking toxic material I thought they were crazy, but then we have panels like these, and you have to wonder if this is what they latched onto to drive those concerns. I'm more for silicon with perovskite layer to boost efficiency.
A UK manufacturer is already making a pervoskite/silicone solar panel with 24% efffiency in the real world. 28% in the lab.
"Just have a think" just released a video on it. Even touching on the Chinese.
Pervoskites are here, and better. Screw this toxic crap. Even I know Cadmium is not to be trifled with.
Imagine having million of houses having these in say... Florida. Getting wiped out by a hurricane spreading broken pieces and leaching into the ground.
No thanks.
it doesn't break down as much as NaCl doesn't, it's stable. EPA say it pass their tests of long-term leaching, meaning the EPA considers it safe to dispose. the problem however is that the EPA is the only one that updated their classification, so we don't have independent verification of its safety from other agencies.
@@danilooliveira6580 Right... thank you for the information.
While CdTe panels are more stable than many other electronic wastes, there are still concerns about their disposal in landfills:
pH and Redox Conditions: The leaching behavior of CdTe can vary depending on the pH and redox conditions in landfills, which are influenced by microbial activity.
Long-term Stability: Although short-term studies show low leaching potential, the long-term behavior (over decades) in landfill conditions is less certain.
Regulatory Considerations: In some jurisdictions, CdTe panels may fail the Toxicity Characteristic Leaching Procedure (TCLP) test, requiring disposal in hazardous waste landfills.
Glad you covered the recycling. Material reclaimation is important for the long term future
electron volt is the unit Good video
Came to say the same. Drove me crazy.
The real final boss! Love how he added that lol. That's not what's important what is the fact this guy creates well structured content in extreme detail!! I enjoy the no fluff informative content 👌
Having a research background in the field I found this to be one of the best description of the field of CdTe. I wish this video was around when I started my PhD.
Intriguing take on Cadmium telluride panels! The mention of copper doping's impact on lifespan really highlights how innovation can unlock new efficiencies. Exciting to think about where this tech could go next.
First Solar shareholder here!
What would be the niche for lighter and thiner solar panel? Cars maybe?
Sweet! I just graduated with a BS in physics and almost every internship I did was around researching these solar panels from computational estimates to physical experiments in Ohio!
It’s excited to see it get some public hype!!!
Hate to be “that guy” Matt, but it’s “electron-volts” and the symbol is eV (1:55). Great video though! Love your content.
Regarding the Larq promo: real UV sterilizers for water keep the fluid in very close proximity to the bulb (a few mm is typical for aquarium or domestic water units) because sterilization efficiency drops off very quickly due to the water absorbing the UV. It strikes me as highly implausible that the LED in this thing is going to be sanitizing or sterilizing anything in any meaningful way. Perhaps a completely empty container, maybe. But a 6 inch tall column of water? Doubtful.
we use them to increase trichomes on plants.. LED UVB is less useful and atrength than t5 uvb bulbs
strength i mean above... it is better using HID UV bulbs or t5 uvb bulbs for efficiency
For UV to work effectively the water has to be filtered to 5 microns or less, otherwise shadows from the particles in suspension get in the way of the light. However, if the water is subjected to the UV for long enough, and in a highly reflective container it will all get hit with enough radiation to zap all of the bugs. It's a question of UV intensity, overall coverage and time.
First Solar just opened a plant in Trinity Alabama. I think the word was it cost 1 BILLION dollars to build. That will take a lot of panels to recoup that investment. Starting pay seems to $15.00 an hour. Maybe they will be around a while. Also my local utility company does not support grid tie systems, but TVA does.
Assuming an average panel output of 500 watts that means the plant would produce 2 million panels per year. Also, Governor Ivey described it as a partnership with the state of Alabama. Plants like these usually receive grants/low interest loans and/or tax breaks to build in a particular state. The Governor's language seems to imply some funding from the state is likely, not to mention IRA Federal funds.
Did you not mean Electron Volt rather than Electro Volt? Interesting video, Thanks.
I got to tour First Solar's factory a couple years ago and it was seriously impressive. It's almost completely automated, so there is very little worker input needed. They've since opened another larger factory in OH and a new one in GA as well.
Nitpick: electroN-volt, not electro-volt. It's the amount of energy imparted to a single electron when accelerated through a 1 volt potential difference.
Oxford PV say they are building a production line for 24.5% efficient tandem panels, & expect to start shipping this year
@UndecidedMF05 Helpline? Have you been hacked? Is this phishing?
Hey Matt, Having conducted some due diligence on the FSLR facility in Perrysburg back around 2007 on a day that they made a significant performance breakthrough I would say that from a health and safety standpoint it's a top notch operation given the toxicity issues. For added context Thinfilms like CdTe emerged as a promising alternative to silicon in order to counter to the supply shortages and high prices. However, where thin film falls short is the additional land requirement and BOS costs for solar farms especially in jurisdictions where land availability is a consideration.
My biggest concern with solar is their durability in severe weather. Hail is quite common here in Nebraska, golf ball size and larger, which will damage panels quite easily.
The biggest issue with CdTe is, what happens when we need more than just the byproducts? Even right now CdTe Panels are barely competitive to silicon. And Silicon Panels are already dirt cheap. So much even that they aren't even the main part of the cost of building a solar farm. Silicon Panels also still get cheaper by the day.
Would love to know the weight ratio/difference between the two. It seems that thinner and lighter may have some commercial scale use cases, with engineering requirements for roofs or other structures that bear the load.
Their series 6 panels are 6ft wide by 3 ft ish and weigh 70lbs
Efficiency isn't everything, or even the name of the game. COST is the name of the game. Efficiency can help as long as cost remains the same.
If I'm a large solar farm a big concern isn't 375W vs. 400W/panel. It's ROI. If the land space I have to occupy is cheap, and the infrastructure for the panels is cheap, then my main concern is cost/watt of continuous power.
It's all a balancing act and other factors play into decisions.
Dave Borlace of the RUclips channel Just Have A Think had a video last weekend about Perovskite solar panels are now for the first time produced and sold commercially, with efficiencies of over 30%! A company in the UK seems to have found a solution for the longevity of Perovskite and started commercial production, selling them in the USA.
Worth to check out I think.
If I want to swap my current panels for new ones they must be more efficient so I can poroduce more energy with the same roof area. So I do not think CDTe will finds its way to my roof.. Perovskite in the future for sure!
Him and Matt are on the ball for professional solar and battery innovation reports
I just want to see multi-junction cells mainstream. Having panels on the market that actually pull over 35% efficiency is going to be a game changer.
Lol, yeah we could have a market for small electric furnaces to smelt and use steel and aluminum even boosting industrial production if that 35% efficiency became available.
We are still a lot happy with the 23% we are getting compared to the 11-13% 10 years ago
What is the efficiency of a leaf converting light to fuel to silicon and CdTe? How do they compare? Enjoyed! Informative and well written, perfect pace and relevant topics brief and concise. Thank you!
🩷🧡💛💚💙🩵💜❤️
You didn’t mention how it handles heat. How is its efficiency in high heat environments.
There’s one big advantage you said but didn’t go into any detail on for CdTe. Durability! The cell is flexible so, there’s no cracking under the glass. This is big in areas that are prone to hail. A hailstorm can hit a site with crystalline modules and you may not see any physical damage but once you take a look with thermal or EL imagining you may see cracked cells.
I'm okay with cadmium, mercury, uranium or whatever, toxic or non-toxic. As long as longevity is close to market and as long as there is a very high sustainablity and renewablility at scale.
If efficiency, location buildout, cost per watt output, etc. is higher, I'm okay with that metric long term.
I'm extremely suspicious of any solar company with not a single panel on their massive roof.
@@ajwright5512 they just added their panels to their warehouses and headquarters
Their roof is not massive at the scale required to generate solar power in bulk. The same panels can be installed elsewhere to generate just as much power. Why complicate the building envelope of a complex manufacturing facility with another thing that gets in the way if you have to repair, remediate, or renovate?
You use suspicion because it is cognitively cheap. Why think when you can merely suspect?
@@afterthesmash occams razor.
Why? Lots of companies including the one I work for find more financial value in selling their product than in using it. It could just be that that their electricity costs locally are low enough that it makes more sense to sell the panels than to install them. Or maybe they can't get a 1:1 NEM agreement and that kills the incentive.
The company has expansion plans at another location, probably. No point in the capital expenditure when in temporary space
So these panels are less efficient, cost more (only one company makes them?), and are based on Cd. I wonder why they are not very popular.
exactly! why even make a video on it?
Even better: 9:42 "replaces [Copper] with Arsenic"
Yeah that sounds like a great idea, worked so well putting asbestos everywhere.
@@ltandrepants because it's a different technology that have niche uses since it's thinner and lighter. and this channel is about reporting about different technologies we don't usually hear about.
The biggest factor is tariffs on imports. First Solar's supply chain is independent of China, no matter who wins the election, both Harris and Trump have plans to increase tariffs on Chinese solar panels. One out of every 5 solar panels in the US is still significant. FSLR did $4 Billion in sales last year and is basically sold out already for next year's production.
The heat tolerance is a major factor. It really depends on the placement and ventilation around the panels. I'd also imagine having less weight for panels over parking lots saves a lot on steel cost
Got to admit, I'd never heard of CdTe panels before. The only application I'd ever seen for Cadmium, over Silicon, was in the light meter of my old Pentax ME Super film camera. And guess what, it was a superior meter too. I guess the point is, Silicon is so damn plentiful, and latest Perovskite added in tandem development models are pushing well past the Shockley-Queisser limit, as far as 43% in the lab. Yes, Perovskite is that super material that let's itself down by quickly degrading in sunlight, of all things, but that is quietly, if slowly, being solved. I guess CdTe will find its place in the mix. It looks like a great alternative and there is certainly a vast market to fill. Incidentally, when you say 2nd most common panels, I'd love to see a bar chart of the percentages.
First Solar is the largest solar panel producer in the western hemisphere and has been for some time. The other western players are now defunct or close to it. All the rest is Chinese with their "go large" mandate from Xi and a lot of subsidies and coal power and forced labor in the case of silicon ingot.
Great video. I agree, it’s cool to improve on but having to have a 30% bigger solar farm for now shouldn’t be considered. Already not a fan of solar farms though. Taking up valuable habitat or farm land. Air ports have lots of grass, maybe put them there?
Very informative! Never heard of the technology, but based on the comments from those that have used these cells, I can think of great use cases.
Extra federal credit for US based manufacturing and material sourcing can mitigate the lower efficiency.
I these can be biracial, then when used in the vertical, the smaller string size is fine in a homestead agrivoltaic application.
Lots of niche use cases
Freakin sweet. I would love to tour that factory.
You and me both!
With solar, you can avoid many of the "moving parts problems" with wind and other renewables. If you can produce the solar panel for a 30 years lifecycle with just a few years of the energy produced by the panels, and high degree of end of life recycling, this could be a very good alternative both to other solar panels and other renewables in general.
I remember seeing Perovskite panels in a video doing a lab tour in Korea a couple of years ago. I completely forgot what they were called before I saw that bronzy gold colour. Hopefully researchers can find some way to make them stick up to the elements without affecting performance too much.
But also, CdTe isn't just a niche product, it's a needed product. In a world constantly using flexible solar panels, I can definitely see the use for it, since it is so thin and lightweight, while also balancing efficiency.
The thin film description got my attention. I just assumed it would weigh less and maybe thinner for Boats & RVs. Unfortunately the link to their website showed specs that were larger and heavier than other brands I am about to buy. I'm looking for panels to place on pergolas, patio covers, and sun shades with a waterproof structure that allows panel expansion.
I'd want to know how the whole life cost works - including recycling into new panels - as you say, the separate materials are very toxic, which means recycling could be more complicated than silica based products.
Matt, look into what First Solar is doing with quantum dots. It'll replace cdte. They're keep it under wraps at the moment, but I'm sure we'll start hearing more about it soon.
0:26 yes, please make every slice of the pie chart exactly the same color, thank you so much
Next time you're at the optometrist, you should ask for a colorblindness test. There are tons of people that live deep into their adult years without knowing they have a form of colorblindness. Almost all the people that join the military and are told they're colorblind; are surprised and had no idea.
@@bobguy6542oh man you are right this person is colorblind 😢.
Hey Zack please don't worry, It can happen to anyone buddy. May God bless you 🙏. Amen
@@ameerm4899 Yeah, its nothing to be ashamed of. I have DOZENS of colorblind coworkers in the military. And it's almost ubiquitous that they had no idea until they military told them while they were going through the rigorous medical process to join that they were informed of it.
@ameerm4899 just needs to go ask for the test. Only then can their type and severity be identified and maybe they can be fitted with corrective eye wear so that they can see the world with the same beauty as the rest of us.
Honestly, the tech i am most interested in is the replacement of silver in solar panels with copper, or preferably aluminium. That would remove the last remaining rare materials from solar production, which i feel is an essential step to drop the price of solar another 10x.
@UndecidedMF , I live in Cincinnati, OH & as I drive around and see the roofs of houses, Apartments, Business, etc. I see wasted potential from the Power companies. Why don't power companies negotiate with homeowners & business owners to utilize their roof for solar power production? As a Homeowner, I'd be willing to lease my roof to the power company, contingent on them maintaining my roof and offering me a discount on my bill. My home is perfect for solar because it is in the path of the sun from sun up to sundown. It seems like a missed opportunity.
Right, CdTe is clearly something to avoid....
The benefits just don't justify the downsides.
had the same thought. why use something edgy when silicon is around for 30 years and works perfect. i know so many people which have silicon on the roof, since 20 years. it still works as is intended to do. of course, lose of some efficiency, but still works.
@@DerSchrottBastler exactly, all the risks, etc for 2 or 3% more efficiency? No thanks
You have a lot to learn about this tech, it's enviro certifications, and the expanding company.
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Thanks for the Hindi audio. Really appreciate it.
I've always wondered if there was a way to make dual layered solar panels, with a way of reflecting some of the light to hit a second layer of cells.
I really like seeing some diverse technologies and this seems like a really relevant one, to develop further. The thing that struck me was that the thin film aspect seems under utilized. If the efficiency needs it to have 31% larger areas, we should use it in areas where it can shine lige solar shingles or other applications, where lightweightness an thinnes are a real factor (maybe solar roofs in cars etc.)
“With GE leading the charge” great pun, love your podcasts
Graphene being used in the sandwiching layer was useful in improving conductivity and overall performance.
Only works within the inner Solar System.
Making two toxic materials inert is win in itself. Price is more important than efficiency if space is available. Recycling is essential because of the materials. Interesting technology, though perovskite might win in the end anyway.
What's the cost difference? For many middle & low income communities, cost may play a significant role in choice of panel - although it's the inverter & batteries than are the most expensive component of a solar system?
What I got out of this is to find a weight-critical application or an application that can't tolerate the thickness of silicon panels.
Space
When I look at residential installations then space is not an issue. There's always plenty of roof space left after setting up PV.
It's more of an issue for large scale power plants, though...as there cost of land does make up a significant part of the capital expenditure.
Maybe look up LCOE like the industry and Wall Street uses.
I love your intro music so much more than the old stuff
I want efficient panels that last 2-3 decades with minimal depredation/maintenance. Make that and I will buy it.
Once they get the efficiency to the same level, the weight reduction could actually prove very beneficial to residential PV renovations. Since it weighs less, it would reduce the need for roofing/truss modifications to support the higher weight load. I think this is a good thing for everybody. Yes, the recycling is critical, but that should only be a process limitation, not an absolute limit.
You end asking if CdTe panels are something I'd use, and the answer is 'eventually'. I'd be using them for a home PV setup, and I have limited roof space. Once CdTe matches or exceeds Silicon in efficiency, then it becomes a strong contender. After that, we need to compare price over the life of the system.
Thanks for the video! I think the missing data is the lcoe to be able to compare with silicon.
I'm glad to see that your videos aren't weirdly translated any more. Thanks!
Since the panels can be so thin, CdTe could find use in aerospace, where weight is an ever present constraint.
Just wondering about the cost vs silicon. It would be interesting if you had done a cost analysis helping us to understand the payoff difference in a residential setting.
Big questions are if not recycled, does it break down so cadmium is the best exposed or in the ground? Not good. Ditto for Arsenic? Thin enough to layer on glass for a window?
Good video. On the numbers point though, this is missing a key piece of information - what’s the capex cost for CdTe vs Silicon. Unless there’s a major advantage in usable life/degradation/maintenance capex, if CdTE is 30% less efficient then very simplified math is that a panel producing the same energy output needs to be 30% cheaper to be cost competitive. If it’s not, why would you buy one vs silicon?
as meyer burger has shown, you can make lead free silicon pv panels - which you can even dump into landfills without much to worry about. and there will always be some percentage of panels which will end up that way. with CdTe panels that isn't such a great idea, as cadmium will poison ground water.
very good, but I think you should have said more about the toxic potential of CdTe, that the cadmium can leach out in, say, a landfill
The cadmium arsenic solar panel. Just awesome....
I really dig the new intro! Nice, clean, and uncluttered from Tesla logos!
are there any companies experimenting with combining CdTe, perovskite, and silicon based panels? seems to me that if someone could find a way to combine these materials in the right way, they could create a much better panel than each of these materials alone.
First Solar and it's recently acquired research teams to go along with it's current R&D teams in OH and Silicon Valley, comprising the largest solar research expenditures in the industry.
Hi Matt, where is the solar panel industry at in terms of panels that look like regular roof tiles. Specifically slate roof tiles. I was, like most, enamored with Tesla's Solar Roof presentation. It's an aesthetic thing for me. I realize the expense is much greater and it may be a bit of a veblen good, but the market is there.
The question left in my mind is durability under difficult weather conditions such as hail. Thinner likely means lighter, which house roofs would appreciate, but does it also mean less durable in harsher climates?
Considering everyone should know most panels are made of silicon it is weird there always seems to be at least one guy saying solar panels are toxic because supposedly panels are only made of stuff like cadmium telluride and gallium arsenic, and clearly panels designed for outdoor use actually break down from rain or something.