The days of volunteer judges should be over. If Crossfit wants to be a real sport semi's/Quarters/ Games should all be judged by a professional judging pool. A body managed and briefed by crossfit on movement standards and fully trained in what to look for on specific movements. They can be trained by the demo teams that test the workouts so its not their first time judging the workout when they are on the comp floor.
These are skilled people judging, regardless of their volunteer status. Volunteer makes it sound like they’re some random off the street, they aren’t. They’re coaches, L1s, 2s, 3s. They have experience judging and it’s never the first time they’ve judged the movement. What would paying people achieve here? We’re saying professionals can’t make mistakes? Chuck some cash at these people with L2s and say “please don’t make a mistake next weekend”?
I’ve judged at Regionals (back when they had it) and the CF games, and it’s not an easy gig but I truly think those judges are doing the best they can.
Yeah. Coles awesome but those lockouts were terrible. So sad that Colten lost just because of his judge giving no reps for no clear reason and Coles judge not calling out legit no reps
From that view it looks like Colten does that same push away at the top of lockout as Speegle but the view makes it tough to know for sure or even compare with her handful of no reps. Athletes job to stay out of the gray area.
@@BrettCarlsonND Granted. But shouldn't that "human error" benefit both athletes (or screw them depending on which way the error is made) if the same standard is applied (which it should be)?
@@paulgregory9572 we can all hope so but that is sports where a referee is required for penalties. CrossFit should clearly make a statement which is far overdue with the push off ring MU but they havent. The statement being much stricter with the judging. They also need to think harder on the movements they have athletes do in online comps like the step up debacle - or create media showing good reps, no reps as the workouts are released. I’m tired of the same athletes getting away with shit movement too, my point is that many do end up riding the line as they race and on this one example Colten looked like he was doing it too - yet the angle was poor to truly review. If I was Dani’s judge I would certainly be looking for specific points of performance based on her history but who knows what these judges know.
The sad thing is her reps looks better than Kyra M. who was right next to her! It seems to be a common movement now. To push away to make it appear as a lock out.
I competed at Oceania Semifinal, and some athletes were getting away with obviously no reps, where every rep looked like Dani’s worst rep, and then there were other who were judged strictly and held to the standard.
The movement prescriptions need to evolve with the athletes. We got rid of being able to hit extension, by jumping off the top of the box about 10 years ago, we ditched push ups very quickly after the debacle of the 2011 Open. If a move can be shorted, tweaked, or sneaked, it will be at the highest level. The sport needs to get less technical, not more technical. Eg, 10 reps of getting from below to above the bar (anyhow), carry heavy object from point A to point B (anyhow), run/bike/paddle from point A to point B and so on. The more rules, the more grey, the more frustration, the more the sport suffers.
Something I've noticed in the semis so far is that the judges are frequently in positions where it would be difficult to see the contentious parts of the reps, one example being the judges not standing side on to the athletes for the lockout of the muscle ups. They're all positioned the same way so it is obviously a directive they're being given
What's funny is I didn't pay attention to Dani's shoulders on the mu's, but I have it on video from the tunnel entrance (I was on the gear team right behind lane 10) so it's a pretty good angle showing some of mu's with her shoulders behind her hands. Then I pan over to the athletes in the other lanes and you can then clearly see a noticeable difference of their lockouts. What I noticed more were Dani's front squats on event 2, where again I was directly behind her lane and had a good view of her front squats. In one of the rounds, she was barely at parallel or not even at parallel and wasn't called for any no-reps. Then on the next round of front squats, she her hips were going below her knees and her squats all looked good. I'm surprised there isn't more video of that out there.
@@GDTheTrain13 pay em and make em competent then. They’re currently inconsistent. Not good enough. Watching these athletes get away with shit standards really gets to me.
@@thomasblay yes CF should pay them and get real judges. In the meantime this RMU was very hard to judge in real time . Especially being a judge that a volunteer and learning the workout and standards days before
@@GDTheTrain13 sounds harsh, but you cant be judging at semi’s without a good eye, deep knowledge of the standards and the bollocks to no rep your favourite athlete.
Dude I watched you on the Sevan podcast over the weekend and you and JR said her reps looked good from where you were sitting? Also if you couldn’t tell in person how is a judge ? You said CF shouldn’t be slowing videos down for analysis when Bill got penalised so should you be when you couldn’t tell in person? The Coltan bias here and from others on the Sevan podcast are showing a bit.
I want to believe you but you dont have any videos of the athletes before and after her rep fpr rep at the same angle to make a valid argument why she shouldn't qualify. I think somone said that about a Qfinal event..... Im not a speegle fan but if you want to be a credible judge we need this data. Also there is a video of a gal who clearly didnt hit depth on squat snatches. The athlete was at or just above parallel on most. But maybe on the snatches it didnt have to be below parellel?
I love the conversation and finding ways to better the standard in events. I don't agree with using Danni as the scape goat without reviewing the movement standard of all the qualifying atheletes as well. Love your work Andrew.
Like your content Hiller but . . . in this instance, I fall into the 'biased' category for having a strong dislike for Spiegel and strong supporter of Colten. In both instances, related to the people they are and not the athletes. I believe your breakdown is more related to how I feel than the actual competition work completed. Let's be honest, the top of the ring muscle ups in these competitors is always a fine line between rep and no rep.
dude. most of those reps there’s absolutely zero chance a judge in real time could see what you see when you stop the video. they look fine in real time. she’s an inch or two behind on most of those and no chance a judge can decipher that. reaching here i think 🤷🏻♂️
That’s not the point he’s making whatsoever. It’s clear there is discrepancy among judges to apply a standard - which in this case dramatically changes what the games looks like. If the standard can’t be applied consistently or is impossible for one judge to the next to make a decision around then the standard needs to be changed.
I agree it would have been nice to see a split screen with Dani & Trista. A question I am curious about is: How were Trista's reps? Did Trista get any no reps? She dropped significantly down the board on that work out, so it would have been nice to know. As for it being the same judge for Colten and Dani, keep in mind that the men when after the women. It is possible that someone noticed the no-reps that Dani should have gotten and then talked with the judge about tightening things up. Which would explain why the standard was so strict for Colten.
Yeah from watch her MU’s on the vid, I’d say 2-3 reps of hers were definitely not good. Tbh while watching live I was worried about Colten’s MU’s too. To me it looked like he had a few behind the rings. As you said, it’s kind of a hit to PRVN. As for Speegle, hey we got 1 of 2 big issues good for now! Maybe the MU’s just need more time to simmer 🤣
I would like when you do this if you would compare her muscle up to Oliva’s since you think she should have been in. You can’t say she should be out without assessing her competition to see what they did. Can’t say Oliva should have got in instead without assessing her in the same way. Where’s the assessment of Oliva’s squats and muscle ups ? I like Oliva more but be fair in your assessment. Maybe you did review them and they’re ok. But you didn’t say it.
It doesn't get much simpler than this. Reduce the volume and leave no doubt about the validity of each rep. It would also have the positive effect of the correct movement patterns filtering down to the affiliates. (remember them, anyone? 😉)
1. To validate that standard on the RMU the judge has to be standing by the side and at the same height. Not a proper standard when judges are diagonally and under the athlete. 2. Trista Smith was fighting to leave no doubt on her RMU taking extra time on support... she might have qualified to the games if she would have done them like others
Ridiculous stretch of criticism from a video 100 feet away, without a specific comparison video of every other athlete. Also a stretch to assume Mertens grip failed specifically because of MU reps. Maybe 6 workouts worth of quad fail, cardio fail? Filowski dropped the DBs without MU fail, as did numerous other competitors Fake controversy for attention ...typical for a guy who only does videos shirtless
This is called inter-rater reliability. Degree to which different raters agree in their test results over time or on repeated occasions. If one rater lets one athlete barely hit parallel on a squat but another rater makes them get well below then their scores (same person or not) would have different scores on the same test.
Pretty common even with average athletes to not pay the tax for being power output athletes. There's a big difference between "showing the capacity" and getting proper lockout on the rmu, hspu, etc
Sucks for Colten. Especially when they were announcing the last two qualifiers and they both started with Col..... You can see him fist pump for joy until they finished the names. I'm still a fan.
If the judge is giving you the rep, why make it harder? In competition, ride the line as close as you can. Make the judge have to make the call. If they do make the call, just adjust and keep moving. If they don’t, awesome you just got away with partial reps and you’re going to be way faster for it. It’s a race. You have to try everything to win.
I agree that Dani Speegle’s judge should have called her no-reps, but I disagree that Colton Merten’s lockouts were good. He was clearly falling behind the rings as he was extending his elbows. Obviously this is a large-scale problem that needs to be addressed, because many other athletes are guilty of the same fault.
Not gonna lie, Colten's fall back from the lockout on the top out would definitely show shoulders behind the hands for a no rep. My guess is if you see this from the side they would all be no reps, but oh well....
The angle of the video for Colton’s reps is so different than Soeagle’s that it’s hard to say whether his reps were good or not. Plus, they do look questionable since he’s locking out at the same time as he’s descending from the rings.
Hey Hiller my fiancé and I met you and Alexis this weekend in Carson and you guys couldn’t have been cooler. Highlight of the weekend. Being there all weekend there’s just a consistent lack of judging in every heat. Judging is completely subjective to the judge and that’s nothing paying someone is gonna fix. In every pro sport from nfl to ufc the judging is completely inconsistent.
I don’t think people realize how hard it is to call no reps on muscle ups with consistency. You don’t get freeze frames and slo mo in real time and they basically have to call it on instinct. They are human so they make mistakes. Heck we had the step up disaster where even CrossFit headquarters can’t call no reps properly and consistently with video evidence. Even Hyrox has judging errors and their movements are much simpler. There is no solution to the problem. It’s all bandaids.
Nah, I was there and Colton was struggling on all his RMU reps, but even so had he just put the weight down before that last section to collect himself, he might have made it. He chose to go big, . . . or go home. Plus Tudor Magda crushed the workout. Kerstetter had two 1st place finishes, a 6th, but the others were 18th or worse and those accounted for half the points. Speegle had one bad workout and everything else was inside the top 13 🤷🏼♀️. Oh and you know who really used to get away with RMU falling away and never being stacked over the hands, . . . . fraser
I think this is some major copium. You can’t possibly make this comparison if you’re not going to use the same angle. I love the guy but his reps look sus and so do speegles. Could it just be the head judge told this judge to get his head out of his ass after seeing Dani’s reps?
Whack take hiller, colten had a good amount of terrible looking MUs so even if he didn’t get no-repped on what you are assuming were good reps he definitely should’ve gotten no-repped on the ones he’s pushing out on- as should have Dani but weren’t you also the one that said that her reps looked good to you when you saw them in real time on sevan’s over the weekend? Ya know kinda like her judge who was also watching in real time….
CrossFit is dead. Why? Because people like me, who used to participate in the open, watch the open announcements, watch the games, and every competition in between , now might watch a single CrossFit video per month.
It’s feels criminal to not have Colten advance. He and a few others were victims of short guy syndrome, he never tired, it’s unfortunate that it happened in multiple events. That said, the same scrutiny could be applied to many reps across the field, solely targeting speegle here for views feels gross here. We know you love to hate her, but man, cmon.
I have to say when I got into CrossFit a few years ago I loved Dani. I loved her body positivity and the fact that she was beautiful. But it did not take long for me to realize that she is full of herself and has a poor me personality. These volunteer judges are probably enamored with her because she’s a “star”. We need paid judges.
If you're gonna compare the two, do it from the same angle. Also, Dani's film is much clearer than Colton's. Rudimentary, unless you're purposely misleading.
I feel like since they are competing for so much prize money the judges should be paid and it should be the judges focus to study the movements so they’re not just a volunteer. They are an actual. Let’s call them a professional judge. I believe that judges need to be held accountable, just like the athletes
It really would've not matter for Colten - he was already behind SAGER when he put the DB down - even if he had finished ahead of sager - Tudor MAgna was ahead of him - Tudor ended up 3 points out of 9th place -
Devils advocate here, shouldnt the judge no rep and explain why? Maybe athletes should be made to demo each movement to the judge before the wod to ensure everyone is on the same page?
Do you think cams at the top of the rig or a judge having a raised standing platform would help them see more clearly what’s going on at the top of the lockout? I know the angles can be tough to see and it makes a difference how tall you are watching those things from the floor vs on a box at the right angle. To test it, how many no reps on muscle ups were reported by a shorter judge vs a taller one? Just curious. Maybe it’s nonsense, maybe it helps? Idk
Well 12 minutes worth of putting off starting work is better than 11 minutes I guess .... just waiting for 2 hour whomper to help me improve at not working
Absolutely gutted for Colten and Olivia! Not sure if maybe they didn't show Speegle during the live feed because she was in an earlier heat OR because they knew everyone would be commenting on her sketchy reps. Really wished she would have worked on making her reps legit since she had so much time to focus on them when she didn't make the Games last year. 🙄 Now we are all subject to watching Rogue drool over here in the couple of strength events that are planned... because that's really all she's got to contribute.
What about making these competition rep documents part of the rule book? I know it will encourage work arounds, but at least the competitors and judges will have time to meet and study a standard
It seems to me that the main issue is that the ring muscle up is simply too difficult for the judges to assess with consistency across athletes and across judges. We're all just human, but it's been shown now repeatedly to be a hard movement for people to judge in real time. Dare I suggest we reconsider using this movement in live competition? Blasphemy!
Human refs, judges and umpires have always been the bane of athletics and sports. Even with instant replays in some sports the refs, judges, and umps still impact the outcome of games. I competed in powerlifting and some judges would be so inconsistent with their calls that fights would break out during the heats. I don't know how you fix this.
In every sport there are missed calls and calls that were called that shouldn’t. There will never be a perfect way to judge but we can always get better. Learn from it and try again
I’m not a Dani fan but I think it’s better when she is in discussions and at the games. I just think she is a bad representative for CrossFit. The whole “girls who eat” thing is annoying while she eats cookies and poor movement standards is just not something that I think people in the community look up to. I’ve seen plenty of girls who eat shirts in the wild and it is just reinforcing bad diet habits in the community while making girls feel better about themselves. I’d rather girls feel better about themselves while actually making themselves better, but she knows her crowd.
The days of volunteer judges should be over. If Crossfit wants to be a real sport semi's/Quarters/ Games should all be judged by a professional judging pool. A body managed and briefed by crossfit on movement standards and fully trained in what to look for on specific movements. They can be trained by the demo teams that test the workouts so its not their first time judging the workout when they are on the comp floor.
It’s not a real sport
@@DoyonFit They are working to it being a real sport and having professional judges is the obvious next sept to reaching that.
They don’t have the money or public interest for it. It’s a hobby you can make money off of is what it is.
In a perfect world maybe…but CF HQ is already xcutting event budgets whilst using volunteer judges. I wouldn’t hold your breath.
These are skilled people judging, regardless of their volunteer status. Volunteer makes it sound like they’re some random off the street, they aren’t. They’re coaches, L1s, 2s, 3s. They have experience judging and it’s never the first time they’ve judged the movement. What would paying people achieve here? We’re saying professionals can’t make mistakes? Chuck some cash at these people with L2s and say “please don’t make a mistake next weekend”?
Professional athletes deserve professional and consistent judging. The integrity of the games is at stake.
Cool...so where you getting the money to pay for it?
@@MrOMGWTFROFL1you know CrossFit charges money for competitions? Not to mention the money they bring in from the Open?
Heartbroken 💔 for our guy Mertens 🐷 Thanks for the coverage over the weekend Hiller.... You all do a FANTASTIC job! 💪
I'm so pleased you posted this. Colten was robbed!
I’ve judged at Regionals (back when they had it) and the CF games, and it’s not an easy gig but I truly think those judges are doing the best they can.
If u cant jugde, dont judge.
Sometimes our best isnt good enough
I’m sure they are, even more reason to have paid and certified judges and not volunteers.
As soon as that first no rep happened for Colten I knew his judge was going to screw him
yeah, cause the judges were out to screw Colten...what a moronic comment
What’s worse to me, while Colten was getting no repped Cole was right next to him not locking out a single rep
Yeah. Coles awesome but those lockouts were terrible. So sad that Colten lost just because of his judge giving no reps for no clear reason and Coles judge not calling out legit no reps
Thicc leg privilege 🦵
I saw someone refer to the Sevan Show as "Which Incel is the Loudest"? Rarely seen something so accurate
“PuNCh tHeIR TicKEt to ThE CroSsFIt gaMEs”
From that view it looks like Colten does that same push away at the top of lockout as Speegle but the view makes it tough to know for sure or even compare with her handful of no reps. Athletes job to stay out of the gray area.
Its definitely the same if not worse.
Part of the point Hiller makes is that it is the SAME JUDGE. Why was she given the reps and he wasn't?
@@paulgregory9572 human error?
@@BrettCarlsonND Granted. But shouldn't that "human error" benefit both athletes (or screw them depending on which way the error is made) if the same standard is applied (which it should be)?
@@paulgregory9572 we can all hope so but that is sports where a referee is required for penalties. CrossFit should clearly make a statement which is far overdue with the push off ring MU but they havent. The statement being much stricter with the judging. They also need to think harder on the movements they have athletes do in online comps like the step up debacle - or create media showing good reps, no reps as the workouts are released. I’m tired of the same athletes getting away with shit movement too, my point is that many do end up riding the line as they race and on this one example Colten looked like he was doing it too - yet the angle was poor to truly review. If I was Dani’s judge I would certainly be looking for specific points of performance based on her history but who knows what these judges know.
The sad thing is her reps looks better than Kyra M. who was right next to her! It seems to be a common movement now. To push away to make it appear as a lock out.
Yea, I was gonna say, Kyra’s look even worse and I love Kyra lol
I'm happy for Kyra but I agree!
It's been "common" since many years ago when no one no-repped Fraser, then loads of them started doing it.
I competed at Oceania Semifinal, and some athletes were getting away with obviously no reps, where every rep looked like Dani’s worst rep, and then there were other who were judged strictly and held to the standard.
So wish there was a way to get Olivia and Colten in. Biggest upsets of the weekend.
The movement prescriptions need to evolve with the athletes. We got rid of being able to hit extension, by jumping off the top of the box about 10 years ago, we ditched push ups very quickly after the debacle of the 2011 Open. If a move can be shorted, tweaked, or sneaked, it will be at the highest level. The sport needs to get less technical, not more technical. Eg, 10 reps of getting from below to above the bar (anyhow), carry heavy object from point A to point B (anyhow), run/bike/paddle from point A to point B and so on. The more rules, the more grey, the more frustration, the more the sport suffers.
Something I've noticed in the semis so far is that the judges are frequently in positions where it would be difficult to see the contentious parts of the reps, one example being the judges not standing side on to the athletes for the lockout of the muscle ups. They're all positioned the same way so it is obviously a directive they're being given
Llamas with hats unlocked so many memories 🤣
What's funny is I didn't pay attention to Dani's shoulders on the mu's, but I have it on video from the tunnel entrance (I was on the gear team right behind lane 10) so it's a pretty good angle showing some of mu's with her shoulders behind her hands. Then I pan over to the athletes in the other lanes and you can then clearly see a noticeable difference of their lockouts.
What I noticed more were Dani's front squats on event 2, where again I was directly behind her lane and had a good view of her front squats. In one of the rounds, she was barely at parallel or not even at parallel and wasn't called for any no-reps. Then on the next round of front squats, she her hips were going below her knees and her squats all looked good. I'm surprised there isn't more video of that out there.
That RMU standard is pretty tough to judge live
Then they’re not good enough to judge
@@thomasblay yes those damn volunteers
@@GDTheTrain13 pay em and make em competent then. They’re currently inconsistent. Not good enough. Watching these athletes get away with shit standards really gets to me.
@@thomasblay yes CF should pay them and get real judges. In the meantime this RMU was very hard to judge in real time . Especially being a judge that a volunteer and learning the workout and standards days before
@@GDTheTrain13 sounds harsh, but you cant be judging at semi’s without a good eye, deep knowledge of the standards and the bollocks to no rep your favourite athlete.
Dude I watched you on the Sevan podcast over the weekend and you and JR said her reps looked good from where you were sitting?
Also if you couldn’t tell in person how is a judge ?
You said CF shouldn’t be slowing videos down for analysis when Bill got penalised so should you be when you couldn’t tell in person?
The Coltan bias here and from others on the Sevan podcast are showing a bit.
I want to believe you but you dont have any videos of the athletes before and after her rep fpr rep at the same angle to make a valid argument why she shouldn't qualify. I think somone said that about a Qfinal event..... Im not a speegle fan but if you want to be a credible judge we need this data. Also there is a video of a gal who clearly didnt hit depth on squat snatches. The athlete was at or just above parallel on most. But maybe on the snatches it didnt have to be below parellel?
Of course it had to be below parallel. They were required to do "Squat Snatches".
I love the conversation and finding ways to better the standard in events. I don't agree with using Danni as the scape goat without reviewing the movement standard of all the qualifying atheletes as well. Love your work Andrew.
Like your content Hiller but . . . in this instance, I fall into the 'biased' category for having a strong dislike for Spiegel and strong supporter of Colten. In both instances, related to the people they are and not the athletes. I believe your breakdown is more related to how I feel than the actual competition work completed. Let's be honest, the top of the ring muscle ups in these competitors is always a fine line between rep and no rep.
dude. most of those reps there’s absolutely zero chance a judge in real time could see what you see when you stop the video. they look fine in real time. she’s an inch or two behind on most of those and no chance a judge can decipher that. reaching here i think 🤷🏻♂️
Are they better or worse than Colten's?
That’s not the point he’s making whatsoever. It’s clear there is discrepancy among judges to apply a standard - which in this case dramatically changes what the games looks like.
If the standard can’t be applied consistently or is impossible for one judge to the next to make a decision around then the standard needs to be changed.
@@lmduda Spiegel’s reps are good. Hiller is not pausing the video at the correct time. Do it yourself, and you’ll see what I’m talking about.
Wasn't just Dani...
I agree it would have been nice to see a split screen with Dani & Trista. A question I am curious about is: How were Trista's reps? Did Trista get any no reps? She dropped significantly down the board on that work out, so it would have been nice to know.
As for it being the same judge for Colten and Dani, keep in mind that the men when after the women. It is possible that someone noticed the no-reps that Dani should have gotten and then talked with the judge about tightening things up. Which would explain why the standard was so strict for Colten.
Yeah from watch her MU’s on the vid, I’d say 2-3 reps of hers were definitely not good. Tbh while watching live I was worried about Colten’s MU’s too. To me it looked like he had a few behind the rings. As you said, it’s kind of a hit to PRVN.
As for Speegle, hey we got 1 of 2 big issues good for now! Maybe the MU’s just need more time to simmer 🤣
I would like when you do this if you would compare her muscle up to Oliva’s since you think she should have been in. You can’t say she should be out without assessing her competition to see what they did. Can’t say Oliva should have got in instead without assessing her in the same way. Where’s the assessment of Oliva’s squats and muscle ups ? I like Oliva more but be fair in your assessment. Maybe you did review them and they’re ok. But you didn’t say it.
Why not just change the standard for MU to mirror an Olympic lift? You descend from the rings when you get a good call from the judge.
It doesn't get much simpler than this. Reduce the volume and leave no doubt about the validity of each rep. It would also have the positive effect of the correct movement patterns filtering down to the affiliates. (remember them, anyone? 😉)
It wasn't just Dani, there was some absolutely shocking standards being let fly during that workout
I think the line is silly. That said, while I don’t care about Spiegel’s RMUs, Colten got screwed. I’d be 100% ok if the judging was equitable.
Want to play a good drinking game? Take a shot every time Lauren Kalil says, "punch their ticket"
1. To validate that standard on the RMU the judge has to be standing by the side and at the same height. Not a proper standard when judges are diagonally and under the athlete.
2. Trista Smith was fighting to leave no doubt on her RMU taking extra time on support... she might have qualified to the games if she would have done them like others
Hiller only made this video so he could pull off a sick tricep flex on us
Ridiculous stretch of criticism from a video 100 feet away, without a specific comparison video of every other athlete.
Also a stretch to assume Mertens grip failed specifically because of MU reps. Maybe 6 workouts worth of quad fail, cardio fail? Filowski dropped the DBs without MU fail, as did numerous other competitors
Fake controversy for attention ...typical for a guy who only does videos shirtless
Tell me you've barely watched his videos, without telling me
Once again great work Hiller!
This is called inter-rater reliability. Degree to which different raters agree in their test results over time or on repeated occasions. If one rater lets one athlete barely hit parallel on a squat but another rater makes them get well below then their scores (same person or not) would have different scores on the same test.
It was the same judge for Dani and Colten.
@@vanillaghetto then it’s interrater reliability 😂
Anybody else do this with their muscle ups? I feel like there had to be more than her. Sucks that Colton didn’t make it
Andrew he locked out behind the rings on most actually IMO
Tell me you qualified for the crossfit games without telling me you qualified for the crossfit games.....
😭😭
Okay, tell us then…
Does it really come down to a couple no reps or did Colten not do enough over the weekend to "punch" his ticket? 😊
The guy wasn’t even the first miss. Tudor Magda was ahead of him.
Simple solution, make R M U strict and see how things pan out??
Had that at regionals. Hip-pop was a bit an issue.
@robertstuart6593 didn't see this, would you have a link to any video?
Pretty common even with average athletes to not pay the tax for being power output athletes. There's a big difference between "showing the capacity" and getting proper lockout on the rmu, hspu, etc
Sucks for Colten. Especially when they were announcing the last two qualifiers and they both started with Col..... You can see him fist pump for joy until they finished the names. I'm still a fan.
If the judge is giving you the rep, why make it harder? In competition, ride the line as close as you can. Make the judge have to make the call. If they do make the call, just adjust and keep moving. If they don’t, awesome you just got away with partial reps and you’re going to be way faster for it. It’s a race. You have to try everything to win.
Well, in every sport there are instances when referees determine the outcome. It surely sucks for the players, but it is part of sport since forever!
I agree that Dani Speegle’s judge should have called her no-reps, but I disagree that Colton Merten’s lockouts were good. He was clearly falling behind the rings as he was extending his elbows. Obviously this is a large-scale problem that needs to be addressed, because many other athletes are guilty of the same fault.
I’m not against Danni but I do agree with this assessment on all fronts Andrew! Sadly Colten and Olivia will still not be at the games in 2024
Not gonna lie, Colten's fall back from the lockout on the top out would definitely show shoulders behind the hands for a no rep. My guess is if you see this from the side they would all be no reps, but oh well....
The angle of the video for Colton’s reps is so different than Soeagle’s that it’s hard to say whether his reps were good or not. Plus, they do look questionable since he’s locking out at the same time as he’s descending from the rings.
Hey Hiller my fiancé and I met you and Alexis this weekend in Carson and you guys couldn’t have been cooler. Highlight of the weekend.
Being there all weekend there’s just a consistent lack of judging in every heat. Judging is completely subjective to the judge and that’s nothing paying someone is gonna fix. In every pro sport from nfl to ufc the judging is completely inconsistent.
I don’t think people realize how hard it is to call no reps on muscle ups with consistency. You don’t get freeze frames and slo mo in real time and they basically have to call it on instinct. They are human so they make mistakes. Heck we had the step up disaster where even CrossFit headquarters can’t call no reps properly and consistently with video evidence.
Even Hyrox has judging errors and their movements are much simpler. There is no solution to the problem. It’s all bandaids.
Nah, I was there and Colton was struggling on all his RMU reps, but even so had he just put the weight down before that last section to collect himself, he might have made it. He chose to go big, . . . or go home. Plus Tudor Magda crushed the workout. Kerstetter had two 1st place finishes, a 6th, but the others were 18th or worse and those accounted for half the points. Speegle had one bad workout and everything else was inside the top 13 🤷🏼♀️.
Oh and you know who really used to get away with RMU falling away and never being stacked over the hands, . . . . fraser
Fraser's the one that started it, and Boz, Castro, and all the judges were too weak to call him on it.
Colton cycle speed was probably too fast for the judge, so she just threw some no reps out there cuz she wasn't sure
After Colten’s performance in QF workout 2, glad to see the judges judging accordingly
what happened with that again? I can't keep up with all this stuff anymore
?
I think this is some major copium. You can’t possibly make this comparison if you’re not going to use the same angle.
I love the guy but his reps look sus and so do speegles. Could it just be the head judge told this judge to get his head out of his ass after seeing Dani’s reps?
how does someone come across llamas with hats? hahaha. thanks for the introduction. that Carl seems like a real piece of work.
Now the judges are the reason if the hog man not qualifying? The grip fatique from no reps? The sun being in his eyes? The hype train sees no ending.
Maybe someone told the judge she wasnt being strict enough after the womens so she overcompensated when its was the mens turn? Very odd
100% agree on this. I also thought Dani took Olivia's spot.
You forgot her feet going higher than the rings on her last few reps
Come on man, I like your content, but bro you can get annoying. Especially with Dani
I’m with you.
you cant put all seasons of these athletes on volunteers.
Whack take hiller, colten had a good amount of terrible looking MUs so even if he didn’t get no-repped on what you are assuming were good reps he definitely should’ve gotten no-repped on the ones he’s pushing out on- as should have Dani but weren’t you also the one that said that her reps looked good to you when you saw them in real time on sevan’s over the weekend? Ya know kinda like her judge who was also watching in real time….
I would like to see the same angle on Colten rep that you had on Dani’s rep. Not defending her. Colten’s video is not the best angle.
her unstated mission is to provide content for you
She doesn’t lock out cuz she can’t
But what does it matter, she’ll finish out of the top 10 again
NBA Playoffs almost over but you still REACHING!!!
CrossFit is dead. Why? Because people like me, who used to participate in the open, watch the open announcements, watch the games, and every competition in between , now might watch a single CrossFit video per month.
It’s feels criminal to not have Colten advance. He and a few others were victims of short guy syndrome, he never tired, it’s unfortunate that it happened in multiple events. That said, the same scrutiny could be applied to many reps across the field, solely targeting speegle here for views feels gross here. We know you love to hate her, but man, cmon.
KARLLLLLL. Lmao. Missed that. This video is spot on with the checks.
I have to say when I got into CrossFit a few years ago I loved Dani. I loved her body positivity and the fact that she was beautiful. But it did not take long for me to realize that she is full of herself and has a poor me personality.
These volunteer judges are probably enamored with her because she’s a “star”. We need paid judges.
Tudors ring muscle ups were very sus as well
Why dont YOU judge then?
If you're gonna compare the two, do it from the same angle. Also, Dani's film is much clearer than Colton's. Rudimentary, unless you're purposely misleading.
OG fortnite never dies. Well done in that match NINYA!!!!! 3:10:00
I feel like since they are competing for so much prize money the judges should be paid and it should be the judges focus to study the movements so they’re not just a volunteer. They are an actual. Let’s call them a professional judge.
I believe that judges need to be held accountable, just like the athletes
It really would've not matter for Colten - he was already behind SAGER when he put the DB down - even if he had finished ahead of sager - Tudor MAgna was ahead of him - Tudor ended up 3 points out of 9th place -
Possible the judge was spoken to after Speegle and cued to watch for certain things? Then over corrected?
Devils advocate here, shouldnt the judge no rep and explain why? Maybe athletes should be made to demo each movement to the judge before the wod to ensure everyone is on the same page?
Aww man...Terrence Howard bout to go wild with your statement on straight lines always present 😂 iykyk
I TURNED LEFT! 😃
Do you think cams at the top of the rig or a judge having a raised standing platform would help them see more clearly what’s going on at the top of the lockout?
I know the angles can be tough to see and it makes a difference how tall you are watching those things from the floor vs on a box at the right angle.
To test it, how many no reps on muscle ups were reported by a shorter judge vs a taller one?
Just curious. Maybe it’s nonsense, maybe it helps? Idk
Olivia's RMU looked worse than Dani's
I think this is a "negative" post.
Homegirl in the green pants didn’t look from the angle to be completing good reps either 🤷🏿♂️
How about Hiller puts together a team of volunteer judges including himself and see how they do when the rest of us judge their judging skills?
The quality and consistency of the judging has continued to go down the wrong road and the sport/athletes are paying a price for it. Sad
Well 12 minutes worth of putting off starting work is better than 11 minutes I guess .... just waiting for 2 hour whomper to help me improve at not working
Was Dani speegles last TTB counted? Looked like left foot didnt touch
Absolutely gutted for Colten and Olivia! Not sure if maybe they didn't show Speegle during the live feed because she was in an earlier heat OR because they knew everyone would be commenting on her sketchy reps. Really wished she would have worked on making her reps legit since she had so much time to focus on them when she didn't make the Games last year. 🙄 Now we are all subject to watching Rogue drool over here in the couple of strength events that are planned... because that's really all she's got to contribute.
Ben Smith’s dad calls no rep on the girl who can’t stop eating
Have you looked at Tudor’s MUs? Live it looked like he was not stacked on any of them
you seem to be very critical of some people but not all Maybe you should compete so we can judge you!
What about making these competition rep documents part of the rule book? I know it will encourage work arounds, but at least the competitors and judges will have time to meet and study a standard
It seems to me that the main issue is that the ring muscle up is simply too difficult for the judges to assess with consistency across athletes and across judges. We're all just human, but it's been shown now repeatedly to be a hard movement for people to judge in real time. Dare I suggest we reconsider using this movement in live competition? Blasphemy!
Human refs, judges and umpires have always been the bane of athletics and sports. Even with instant replays in some sports the refs, judges, and umps still impact the outcome of games. I competed in powerlifting and some judges would be so inconsistent with their calls that fights would break out during the heats. I don't know how you fix this.
In every sport there are missed calls and calls that were called that shouldn’t. There will never be a perfect way to judge but we can always get better. Learn from it and try again
I’m not a Dani fan but I think it’s better when she is in discussions and at the games.
I just think she is a bad representative for CrossFit. The whole “girls who eat” thing is annoying while she eats cookies and poor movement standards is just not something that I think people in the community look up to. I’ve seen plenty of girls who eat shirts in the wild and it is just reinforcing bad diet habits in the community while making girls feel better about themselves. I’d rather girls feel better about themselves while actually making themselves better, but she knows her crowd.
😂😂😂
When I saw her jumpng off the box I knew your video is coming on "dani speegle should not be in the games" :-)
On the no reps for Mertens, looks like he is not in control at the top, cant be giving the judge any doubt this year