Zion Williamson was drafted into the NBA at the age of 19. During that time he was criticized for his weight openly for MILLIONS of viewers. CrossFit wants to be professionalized. Then male, female you have to take what comes with it. Olivia’s weight was talked about it a complete sports specific setting. Can’t have the title of professional athlete but not the open criticism, NOT HATE, that comes with it.
What do you think about the weight pressures in other sports such as gymnastics and swimming where Olympic gold medalists have come out and talked about the negative effects in their sports of their coaches forcing them to lose weight?
@@oases738 If they have a problem with it, they should change fucking sports or give up entirely. This snowflake attitude has no place in actual competition. No one cares how you feel. If you ain't up to par good luck somewhere else.
I don't know much about gymnastics, but from talking to people who have competed, it seems like in gymnastics you're pressured to lose weight for aesthetic reasons to be looked at more favorably by the judges. If that's the case, that's unfortunate. That sport is very subjective. But that's a lot different than being told "if you lose 20-lbs you'll be able to do more HSPU, ring muscle-ups will be easier and you'll run faster". If someone hears that and then they feel bad and as though everyone is criticizing their looks, it might be time to work with a therapist to see why they feel that way (which I'm a big advocate for).
Nailed it! I gained 48 pounds over the “pandemic” I was trying to keep my affiliate doors open and completely neglected my own health. Guess what? I can’t do a fucking handstand push up anymore. It’s embarrassing. I’m back in a calorie deficit and prioritizing workouts. My weight does matter.
Jake Douglas is a great example of someone who recognised the need to make adjustments to do better in the sport. The guy is an absolute beast and has some of the best lifts in both snatch and C&J but he decided he needed to be lighter to be more well rounded. With discipline and commitment he lost 9 kg (20 pds). We will see how this plays out during the season but i have no doubt that his performance in gymnastics/ endurance will be so much better than last season
Anyone who has taken cf seriously has struggled with the balance of weight/strength/lifts & leanness/gymnastics/cardio. This makes perfect sense if you remove feelings but everyone’s feelings matter now and they cannot separate the two for some reason. Makes me think of Laura Horvath and her struggle with HSPUs.
Horvath is a prime example, just because she doesn't look fit doesn't mean she is. She is damn beast of a weightlifter and just as good at gymnastics in the overall picture. The best figure out the fine line between the two and it shows in CF.
I think if you are discussing a sport and talking about someone’s weight in relation to performance, there is nothing wrong with that. So long as you’re not completely disrespectful. You brought up a lot of good points. The only thing that does concern me is young girls misunderstanding the conversation. I have had an eating disorder for 30+ years. Hearing these type of comments when I was younger, would only have contributed to my focusing on needing to be “perfect”. When you are a young girl, I don’t think you have the life experience to understand the conversation is focusing on performance and not take it personal. I think it is important how you verbalize this topic of discussion. I personally do not think there was anything wrong with your statements, especially given that your platform is coming from health, fitness, and the CrossFit arena.
Former CFB player here. I love this video. This is how college sports is, too (minus the fine part, its more about playing time). If youre too slow or whatever because youre over weight, say goodbye to your playing time. It's not that anyone hates you. It's for the team, we're trying win. If youre too slow to do your job because youre overweight and outta shape relative to your postion, sorry, next guy up
Since there are no weight classes in crossfit I don't need to know what anyone weighs, curious sure. Olivia is a pro, she wouldn't be there in that category if she wasn't, she lifts more than most men and is very fit. Should every athlete be keeping tabs on their weight and how it affects their performance, if they want to excel they better. As a commentator in this arena should Andrew call her out by name especially at her age, not sure. Some of the toppish athletes know after years of trying that they are never going to be perfectly well rounded so they try to maintain their advantage where they can, like Bron and Dani. Being good athletes with a specialty is how they make their mark.
They don't want to be professional they want fat contracts. They want to be paid good money to work out with the potential to win more money at comps. They don't want any other obligations or stipulations just paychecks. That is what being professional means to them... getting paid very well regardless of performance at comps.
You’ve definitely found your niche. It’s provocative it’s click baity, it’s all the “mean” things but it works! You’re the “heel” of the CrossFit world. People that get bent out of shape bc of your content just don’t get it. You do you and keep the content comin!!
Weight management as a barometer of professionalism may work in one sport but not necessarily in all.There is a massive problem with pressuring athletes in sports to keep their weight in line. Gymnastics and swimming are notorious with these practices in both males and females. Olympic gymnasts have been very open in the last few years how badly it’s affected them physically and mentally.
Maybe the heavier athletes at WZA are in a bulking phase because their focus is the CrossFit games and they just wanna have fun at WZA or make an appearance for sponsorship visibility.
Powerlifting and weightlifting both- athletes weight is listed and literally determines what class they lift in.. its important, its no secret. It shouldnt be one in Crossfit- the "professional " side lol😂
You hear it in the box too, if people are overweight chances of them doing a legless rope climb are slim, but they’ll deadlift a whole Mack truck. Just look at the strongman bois and girls. Agree with you Hiller.
Solid video, you gave valid points, thoroughly explained yourself and provided some entertainment too. Overall, the issue is that society as a whole is soft.
These people want the word professional, because they want to be paid more, but they do not want the stipulations or criticism that comes along with being an actual professional
some “body frames” are naturally bigger and some are smaller. BUT if they’re following the CrossFit prescription whatever frame you’ve got is gonna be tight and dialed in. ❤ good points Hiller the athletes need to be careful what they ask for.
Ditto. They're outliers for sure. But baseball is an odd sport where you can be legitimately overweight and unhealthy but it not affect your performance. Pablo Sandoval, Big Papi, and Mo Vaughn come to mind too. Those dudes could rake in their prime.
Swing and a miss (pun intended) on Bartolo Colon. Man was in the MLB in his mid 40s, still playing to this day in Dubai at 50. Definitely an anomaly to be fair.
Agreed on this. Pitchers as a whole don't fit this episode. All they gotta do is throw - they don't really need to move fast so as long as they can throw they can kinda be whatever size they want.
I've had the thought for awhile that these athletes wouldn't really want a true professionalization of "the sport". Most of them wouldn't get near the Games. They'd have to compete far harder, far more times per year. The NFL is up to 17 games a season! Pro bike racers in Europe at the top of the sport are averaging around 75 race days a year. The pressure on them would increase exponentially. They'd come under far more savage attacks than anything they've seen. Truth is, compared to real pro athletes, the top CF Games athletes are soft and spoiled.
Agree with everything you said here !! The shit I see pro mountain bikers having to put up with from the fan base is unreal and it’s worse on the road side especially the grand tour riders. Also the amount they have to compete is sky high compared to CF. Another sport that competes a lot weekend after weekend is Biathlon but I don’t think they have to deal with as much hate from the fan base.
Interesting thought- I work in the NFL -directly working with athletes weights and determining the size they need to be in the season. In the NFL each athlete is given a range of bodyweight they must fall within to not be fined. This range is determined SPECIFICALLY for that athlete. It isn’t a range for “every running back”. It’s determined by their physical size factoring in bone density, muscle mass, and stature. So one running backs weight requirement will be different than all the other running backs. That is because they are all different heights, and have different muscle mass etc. They might be similar ranges, but they won’t be the same. This is why it can’t be done for CrossFit. Take the smallest games athlete versus the biggest. Now maybe one of those athletes needs to lose or gain weight to preform optimally but there is NO possible range you can give a set of 30 girls to all fall within. They would all need to do their own individual DEXA scan and then determine what weight they would be best fit at. It has a lot to do with their physical numbers AS WELL as looking at strength and conditionings numbers on speed etc. the only way to be “professional” is to be individualized. No generalized formula for anyone. Hope that helps
This is the time of year when these athletes would likely want to be bigger and adding strength/muscle, isn't it? They want to be in peak condition in August, not January. No professional athlete stays in peak competiton condition year-round.
I agree, I also think they put too many competitions throughout the year, of course the biggest competition of the year of course is the CrossFit games, Open, sectionals
Andrew, Constructive criticism is always a good thing. That’s the only way things get better from what they are. The only idiots that have a problem with that are people with egos so big that they can’t pull their head out of their butts. Keep preaching brother!
the measuring stuff makes sense in team settings. when get of shape, in a team your team mate suffer (team performance goes down). as indy, it's yourself who will suffer (the person who cause it, suffer from it).
I dont think people are being honest when they say Olivia cant be lean. Or that her body isn't built like other CFers. If you look at her a year ago, she's much leaner. Not "thin", but not as heavy as she was at WZA. I didnt even recognize her when she stepped out.
Before I watch the video, my first thought when watching the intro was that if there is any crossfitter that represents professionalism it is for sure fikowski. No doubt.
Compare Katrin and Brooke Wells performances in their first couple of years at the Games to their performances after - obviously they were learning more and improving their skills. But also they noticeably leaned up. The outlier to this general correlation being Horvath.
Age has something to do with it as well. As Horvath gets older she may find she needs to lean out as well. I think professional athletes are always fine tuning their bodies for optimal performance.
Pretty sure you all talked about Nick Mathew being a thick boi and to stop lifting weights when discussing his piss poor performance so the whole 'they never discuss the mens weight' really doesn't slide.
As someone who is has more of a gymnastic body . Sometimes I wish I could put on thick thickness for max lifts but then I like being able to do gymnastic moves and having longevity more . It takes weight to move weight ! The same thing can’t be said for pull-ups and handstand walks though ! that’s why I think it’s super hard to well rounded overall in CrossFit for women ..
Another topic of professionalism is the opportunity to do sports betting on athletes. If athletes publicly shared their weight and as well as open videos... That would help lean towards professionalism
Theres a great bit in Jessica Ennis autobiography where she talks about this. I think it was as she was preparing for the 2012 olympics (she was a heptathlete) and her coach was heard saying that she was overweight and he was hammered in the media. She came out and said yeah she was obviously at a very healthy weight but for her sports she was a few pounds over where she should be. Its important to understand the context
Im setting up for my workout with you playing in the back ground and when i heard "you want me to do a back flip?" I dropped everything and ran to my phone, ohwell maybe next time.
The big difference in professional "CrossFit" is maybe what, the top 5 people are actually "professionals". How many houses in total has competing in CrossFit actually paid for worldwide? For the rest of them it is just an all consuming hobby that they are pursuing and it definitely is not paying the bills. My issue with Olivia is you can make a case on paper that yea sure we can critique these people because they put themselves out there in competition and are technically adults. But maybe we should cut the 17/18 yr olds a break. She knows shes big for a lot of this stuff. It's hard to learn your body and get everything in your life set up to maximize performance. I wouldn't want to be going through it knowing for sure people were going to be bringing it up on RUclips.
Acknowledging it only takes me 30 seconds to type this out vs making the video. Professionalism is defined by the specific space and role CrossFit feels more analogous to tennis than football given the players work for themselves not the league. NFL players are employees, so yeah you get fined because you’re costing the organization whereas in tennis/crossfit your compensation is decided by performance and self branding
Your so right I’ve lost 18kg in the last year my gymnastics have improved loads I’ve even managed to handstand walk a little bit and I’m 40 😂 but luckily I’ve kept my strength and actually improved it on some lifts.
Let’s look at this from another angle…. Would you be concerned with an athlete’s high weight or bmi if they were doing well in all events? To me the performance is what’s important. I would only be concerned if I was constantly performing poorly in a certain area.
Andrew, I really think you should find a way to interview. Rich froning and Annie Thorsdaughter on this subject. When they were signed by Reebok they were I think required to do quite a few things. I even think you should interview Ben B. It'll open book conversation.
Maybe the difference is team sports (football, basketball,etc) vs individual sports like CrossFit. We all kinda know if we want to get a bit better at lifting, gaining a bit of mass can help, and if we want to get better at gymnastics, losing a bit of mass can help. But in an individual sport like CrossFit, being at a ‘non-optimal body mass for winning’ is only detrimental to the individual’s goal of winning. Whereas in a team sport it affects the whole team.
I totally agree with you Hiller. I have been doing CrossFit for 10 years and I have always been a good lifter due to being heavier but due to my weight and not being mindful of diet and other factors my workouts suffer.. I can lift all day but my weight is effecting my performance.. it is a fact! Man or woman, it is the same thing.
Team sports vs Individual, the 'fine' is that they finish further down the leaderboard. If they employ a good coach, they'll be honest with them about that. Maybe for Kerstetter this is intentional to get her weightlifting/strength numbers up and as we move into games season and the volume ramps up, she knows that she'll drop some back to what is optimal for her.
It's an interesting conversation because there's such a different structure to a professional team (paid by the team, having standards set by the team as in your Bears example) vs. the current crossfit model where individuals aren't paid by a "team" model and don't have a prescriptive set of requirements to adhere to on that team. I'd be curious to hear the same type of discussion with athletes in more individual sports (tennis, marathon, idk?) to see if there's a model that could more broadly translate to the current structure of CrossFit. Or, you know, CrossFit could just start paying it's athletes then make those benchmarks itself 🤷🏻♀️
Mary Cain was a top tier track athlete who signed with Nike and Alberto Salazar. He and his coaches put crazy body weight goals on her with the idea that lighter equals faster. It made her sick. To the point she was no longer getting her period or competing in the level she was years prior. She recently won a lawsuit against Nike. Which I believe she fully deserved after what she was out through
Hahah a back flip is easy Andrew just do it 🤣 plus you never here the women in mma complaining about having to be at certain weights for the weight class they fight in to be able to make the money they do as professional athletes. I mean if they miss weight they just lost a huge pay out
Perhaps the NFL to crossfit comparison would obtain better if crossfit athletes were (a) under guaranteed contract, (b) guaranteed objectively high salaries, esp. for 2d-tier players (e.g., Tyson Bagent), and (c) under the robust union protection of NFL athletes. A far more apt comparison would be, say, professional tennis players or other elite individual athletes who do not have a an organization that ostensibly owns rights in their body and performance. Additionally, perform a cost-benefit analysis of how you frame this conversation. Taking the time to specify that you're questioning whether an athlete's body composition is ideal for the given athletic task is little harm to you and minimizes the possibility that listeners will understand your commentary to mean, "X is athlete is [objectively] overweight." This would additionally decrease the risk of listener outrage, although maybe pundits benefit from upset viewers.
Talking about weight I actually think every year they should weigh everybody at the CF Games and make the results public. The listed weights put by the athletes themselves are a joke. Does anybody really believe Noah Ohlsen or Pat Vellner or whoever weighs 185... come on...
I agree with what you’re saying, that’s why I keep saying the sport isn’t professional. Very few of the athletes are actually making any money through the sport. Mostly women have big sponsors cause they can sexualize their bodies but the men can’t, but there’s nothing wrong with stating the obvious and then backing it up with facts….. ppl like to avoid the facts when they want to feel triggered.
Used to think asking someone’s weight was improper until I started coaching CrossFit. Since the sport was born from fucking physics and biochemistry it was important to realize that my job was to use the formulas to control body weight for optimal health.
You are literally crushing it lately! So much to unpack here but I'll let you continue to do it for us. Keep up the great work. Part of what's wrong with society in general. Too much hypocrisy and people talking out of both sides of their mouths all the time!!! Then when they get called out they play the victim. It's really sad no one has any personal responsibility anymore. The one's that actually do have personal responsibility tend to rise to the top. I tell my kids if they are even remotely close to being savages they will crush all the weak-minded kids out there these days. Not just in sports but in life!
I think sometimes Hiller can be pretty harsh, but after hearing him talk about this, he is 100000% right. Makes me second guess my judgment on Hiller when he is right with this stuff to a T.
There’s a video of Dan Bailey learning how to do a backflip in 30 minutes and then He and Rich did a workout with them. If Bailey can learn to backflip, you certainly can.
There's plenty of videos of Fraser and Ohlsen doing them too, It had became such a common trick that I remember outlets speculating if it would become part of an event at some point.
Literally watched that video of Dan and rich, went to an friend that was a gymnast and was like teach me how to backflip. 10-15 mins later backflip’s learned
Weight is just the tip of the iceberg if athletes were to get contracts. Those contracts are extremely restrictive. Want to rock climb? You cant because it is deemed an extreme or dangerous sport and you will be dropped and sued for breach of contract. Those month long vacations will have to be scheduled and approved by the company. When a company or sport signs you under contract you become their investment. I don't think CrossFit is ready to be a "professional" sport with contracts, the company is far too disorganized, and the athletes are too distracted with everything else.
You're a hammer and everyone out there is nails, so some folks are just gonna be upset about the hammering. Olivia's weight is a legitimate question in CrossFit. I looked up her lifts and she could probably shift to being a world class olympic lifter if she focused on that. Her engine is pretty great for carrying a few extra pounds. Laura Horvath shows that a bigger girl CAN win, but even Laura has weaknesses because of it. Olivia shouldn't ever try to be slender because her competitive advantage is in power, but if she got leaner, she could probably be a podium contender.
You’re on point, Andrew. I’m a 35 yr old female and have been like 60ish lbs overweight since 2020. First time in my life I’ve been overweight. This body positivity bs is just that, bs. These female influencers want to say it’s harmful to young female athletes to be on them about weight but it’s just TRUTH. it’s NOT healthy to be overweight. Period. Sure we don’t want to force someone into bulimia but that’s also on them. Want to be a pro and in the spotlight, act like it.
I'm new to this but if they want to be more professional and having competitions on the same level, then they need well trained judges. From your vids, it looks like the standard of movement and execution determines rep or no rep and needs to be well established. Also, like MLB, NFL etc, if the ref or ump has final say in a call even after reviewing video footage, the CF athlete has to accept no rep calls.
Sure there is a clip out there from Frazer saying why he wasn't as lean as most of his competitors as he felt with the extra fat he was able to push as others caught up to him. He felt if he was leaner he wouldn't of done so well. Also a clips where Noah Olson has spoke about his weight and changing it in order to improve his finishes in the games.
Hear me out, average weight for a defenseman is 308lbs. He’s got an important place on the team just like the other guys who weigh less. I think I understand why you made this video but I’m having trouble with the “gain/lose a few” (maybe this means I don’t understand lol) These people are clearly at the top of the game in order to make these competitions even though most of them will never win. The specialized athletes make some of these events so much fun to watch whether you’re a fan or not. I’d say DS’s “fine” was her not making the games last year.
What about bringing the comparison to MMA - even with weight classes body composition plays a huge part. The more serious you are as an athlete it shows. Dropping excess body fat helps put you in the right weight class - you don’t need to be shredded but you can’t take the lazy route.
Bartolo colon played 21 years and CC Sabathia 18 years in MLB. An average pro baseball player plays 5-6 years in the big leagues. Pitchers can get away with being fat ;)
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Zion Williamson was drafted into the NBA at the age of 19. During that time he was criticized for his weight openly for MILLIONS of viewers. CrossFit wants to be professionalized. Then male, female you have to take what comes with it. Olivia’s weight was talked about it a complete sports specific setting. Can’t have the title of professional athlete but not the open criticism, NOT HATE, that comes with it.
It's not professional to do it openly. Americans are really a special breed with no manners.
Cause he must have been fat
What do you think about the weight pressures in other sports such as gymnastics and swimming where Olympic gold medalists have come out and talked about the negative effects in their sports of their coaches forcing them to lose weight?
@@oases738 If they have a problem with it, they should change fucking sports or give up entirely. This snowflake attitude has no place in actual competition. No one cares how you feel. If you ain't up to par good luck somewhere else.
I don't know much about gymnastics, but from talking to people who have competed, it seems like in gymnastics you're pressured to lose weight for aesthetic reasons to be looked at more favorably by the judges. If that's the case, that's unfortunate. That sport is very subjective.
But that's a lot different than being told "if you lose 20-lbs you'll be able to do more HSPU, ring muscle-ups will be easier and you'll run faster". If someone hears that and then they feel bad and as though everyone is criticizing their looks, it might be time to work with a therapist to see why they feel that way (which I'm a big advocate for).
Nailed it! I gained 48 pounds over the “pandemic”
I was trying to keep my affiliate doors open and completely neglected my own health.
Guess what? I can’t do a fucking handstand push up anymore. It’s embarrassing.
I’m back in a calorie deficit and prioritizing workouts.
My weight does matter.
Dani Speegle “please keep talking about me, I don’t care” lol then proceeds to care a whole lot. What a shmuck
Jake Douglas is a great example of someone who recognised the need to make adjustments to do better in the sport. The guy is an absolute beast and has some of the best lifts in both snatch and C&J but he decided he needed to be lighter to be more well rounded. With discipline and commitment he lost 9 kg (20 pds). We will see how this plays out during the season but i have no doubt that his performance in gymnastics/ endurance will be so much better than last season
Anyone who has taken cf seriously has struggled with the balance of weight/strength/lifts & leanness/gymnastics/cardio.
This makes perfect sense if you remove feelings but everyone’s feelings matter now and they cannot separate the two for some reason.
Makes me think of Laura Horvath and her struggle with HSPUs.
Horvath is a prime example, just because she doesn't look fit doesn't mean she is. She is damn beast of a weightlifter and just as good at gymnastics in the overall picture. The best figure out the fine line between the two and it shows in CF.
She doesn’t look fit? What kind of garbage is this? You mean because she isn’t single digit BF? This is just complete nonsense.
She does look fit. Wtf
I think if you are discussing a sport and talking about someone’s weight in relation to performance, there is nothing wrong with that. So long as you’re not completely disrespectful. You brought up a lot of good points. The only thing that does concern me is young girls misunderstanding the conversation. I have had an eating disorder for 30+ years. Hearing these type of comments when I was younger, would only have contributed to my focusing on needing to be “perfect”. When you are a young girl, I don’t think you have the life experience to understand the conversation is focusing on performance and not take it personal. I think it is important how you verbalize this topic of discussion.
I personally do not think there was anything wrong with your statements, especially given that your platform is coming from health, fitness, and the CrossFit arena.
Former CFB player here. I love this video. This is how college sports is, too (minus the fine part, its more about playing time). If youre too slow or whatever because youre over weight, say goodbye to your playing time. It's not that anyone hates you. It's for the team, we're trying win. If youre too slow to do your job because youre overweight and outta shape relative to your postion, sorry, next guy up
Since there are no weight classes in crossfit I don't need to know what anyone weighs, curious sure. Olivia is a pro, she wouldn't be there in that category if she wasn't, she lifts more than most men and is very fit. Should every athlete be keeping tabs on their weight and how it affects their performance, if they want to excel they better. As a commentator in this arena should Andrew call her out by name especially at her age, not sure. Some of the toppish athletes know after years of trying that they are never going to be perfectly well rounded so they try to maintain their advantage where they can, like Bron and Dani. Being good athletes with a specialty is how they make their mark.
They don't want to be professional they want fat contracts. They want to be paid good money to work out with the potential to win more money at comps. They don't want any other obligations or stipulations just paychecks. That is what being professional means to them... getting paid very well regardless of performance at comps.
You’ve definitely found your niche. It’s provocative it’s click baity, it’s all the “mean” things but it works! You’re the “heel” of the CrossFit world. People that get bent out of shape bc of your content just don’t get it. You do you and keep the content comin!!
Weight management as a barometer of professionalism may work in one sport but not necessarily in all.There is a massive problem with pressuring athletes in sports to keep their weight in line. Gymnastics and swimming are notorious with these practices in both males and females. Olympic gymnasts have been very open in the last few years how badly it’s affected them physically and mentally.
NFL players get fined for being over weight obviously position dependent no one says jack about it because there’s a reason
Maybe the heavier athletes at WZA are in a bulking phase because their focus is the CrossFit games and they just wanna have fun at WZA or make an appearance for sponsorship visibility.
I’m really liking your content lately man. Valid points, well edited…great video.
Powerlifting and weightlifting both- athletes weight is listed and literally determines what class they lift in.. its important, its no secret. It shouldnt be one in Crossfit- the "professional " side lol😂
this comment wins!
@@delunadenny7084 woohoo! I like winning!
You hear it in the box too, if people are overweight chances of them doing a legless rope climb are slim, but they’ll deadlift a whole Mack truck.
Just look at the strongman bois and girls.
Agree with you Hiller.
Solid video, you gave valid points, thoroughly explained yourself and provided some entertainment too. Overall, the issue is that society as a whole is soft.
These people want the word professional, because they want to be paid more, but they do not want the stipulations or criticism that comes along with being an actual professional
some “body frames” are naturally bigger and some are smaller. BUT if they’re following the CrossFit prescription whatever frame you’ve got is gonna be tight and dialed in. ❤ good points Hiller the athletes need to be careful what they ask for.
I don’t disagree with your premise but Colon pitched 21 years until he was 45 and Sabathia pitched 19 until he was 38. Maybe not the best examples.
Came to post this.
Ditto. They're outliers for sure. But baseball is an odd sport where you can be legitimately overweight and unhealthy but it not affect your performance. Pablo Sandoval, Big Papi, and Mo Vaughn come to mind too. Those dudes could rake in their prime.
Swing and a miss (pun intended) on Bartolo Colon. Man was in the MLB in his mid 40s, still playing to this day in Dubai at 50. Definitely an anomaly to be fair.
Agreed on this. Pitchers as a whole don't fit this episode. All they gotta do is throw - they don't really need to move fast so as long as they can throw they can kinda be whatever size they want.
Great video Hiller! 👏🏻💪🏻💪🏻
I've had the thought for awhile that these athletes wouldn't really want a true professionalization of "the sport". Most of them wouldn't get near the Games. They'd have to compete far harder, far more times per year. The NFL is up to 17 games a season! Pro bike racers in Europe at the top of the sport are averaging around 75 race days a year. The pressure on them would increase exponentially. They'd come under far more savage attacks than anything they've seen. Truth is, compared to real pro athletes, the top CF Games athletes are soft and spoiled.
Agree with everything you said here !!
The shit I see pro mountain bikers having to put up with from the fan base is unreal and it’s worse on the road side especially the grand tour riders.
Also the amount they have to compete is sky high compared to CF.
Another sport that competes a lot weekend after weekend is Biathlon but I don’t think they have to deal with as much hate from the fan base.
Interesting thought- I work in the NFL -directly working with athletes weights and determining the size they need to be in the season. In the NFL each athlete is given a range of bodyweight they must fall within to not be fined. This range is determined SPECIFICALLY for that athlete. It isn’t a range for “every running back”. It’s determined by their physical size factoring in bone density, muscle mass, and stature. So one running backs weight requirement will be different than all the other running backs. That is because they are all different heights, and have different muscle mass etc. They might be similar ranges, but they won’t be the same. This is why it can’t be done for CrossFit. Take the smallest games athlete versus the biggest. Now maybe one of those athletes needs to lose or gain weight to preform optimally but there is NO possible range you can give a set of 30 girls to all fall within. They would all need to do their own individual DEXA scan and then determine what weight they would be best fit at. It has a lot to do with their physical numbers AS WELL as looking at strength and conditionings numbers on speed etc. the only way to be “professional” is to be individualized. No generalized formula for anyone. Hope that helps
This is the time of year when these athletes would likely want to be bigger and adding strength/muscle, isn't it? They want to be in peak condition in August, not January. No professional athlete stays in peak competiton condition year-round.
I agree, I also think they put too many competitions throughout the year, of course the biggest competition of the year of course is the CrossFit games, Open, sectionals
Andrew, Constructive criticism is always a good thing. That’s the only way things get better from what they are. The only idiots that have a problem with that are people with egos so big that they can’t pull their head out of their butts. Keep preaching brother!
Hey..what’s the “it’s provocative” movie scene from?
the measuring stuff makes sense in team settings. when get of shape, in a team your team mate suffer (team performance goes down). as indy, it's yourself who will suffer (the person who cause it, suffer from it).
I dont think people are being honest when they say Olivia cant be lean. Or that her body isn't built like other CFers.
If you look at her a year ago, she's much leaner. Not "thin", but not as heavy as she was at WZA. I didnt even recognize her when she stepped out.
Keep up the great work!
Glad you clarified this was about Games athletes, because I was afraid I was getting called out.
Before I watch the video, my first thought when watching the intro was that if there is any crossfitter that represents professionalism it is for sure fikowski. No doubt.
Compare Katrin and Brooke Wells performances in their first couple of years at the Games to their performances after - obviously they were learning more and improving their skills. But also they noticeably leaned up. The outlier to this general correlation being Horvath.
Age has something to do with it as well. As Horvath gets older she may find she needs to lean out as well. I think professional athletes are always fine tuning their bodies for optimal performance.
Pretty sure you all talked about Nick Mathew being a thick boi and to stop lifting weights when discussing his piss poor performance so the whole 'they never discuss the mens weight' really doesn't slide.
Tfx next weekend
Would love to get your take!
As someone who is has more of a gymnastic body . Sometimes I wish I could put on thick thickness for max lifts but then I like being able to do gymnastic moves and having longevity more . It takes weight to move weight ! The same thing can’t be said for pull-ups and handstand walks though ! that’s why I think it’s super hard to well rounded overall in CrossFit for women ..
Another topic of professionalism is the opportunity to do sports betting on athletes.
If athletes publicly shared their weight and as well as open videos... That would help lean towards professionalism
Theres a great bit in Jessica Ennis autobiography where she talks about this. I think it was as she was preparing for the 2012 olympics (she was a heptathlete) and her coach was heard saying that she was overweight and he was hammered in the media. She came out and said yeah she was obviously at a very healthy weight but for her sports she was a few pounds over where she should be. Its important to understand the context
Im setting up for my workout with you playing in the back ground and when i heard "you want me to do a back flip?" I dropped everything and ran to my phone, ohwell maybe next time.
The big difference in professional "CrossFit" is maybe what, the top 5 people are actually "professionals". How many houses in total has competing in CrossFit actually paid for worldwide? For the rest of them it is just an all consuming hobby that they are pursuing and it definitely is not paying the bills.
My issue with Olivia is you can make a case on paper that yea sure we can critique these people because they put themselves out there in competition and are technically adults. But maybe we should cut the 17/18 yr olds a break. She knows shes big for a lot of this stuff. It's hard to learn your body and get everything in your life set up to maximize performance. I wouldn't want to be going through it knowing for sure people were going to be bringing it up on RUclips.
Interesting post. It highlights an issue with BMI. I would bet 90-95% of top crossfit athletes are overweight (>25 BMI).
Yea I thinks its starting to be more recognized that BMI is useless. According to the Navy my BMI is 27 (borderline obese 😂) I’m 5”9 190
BMI is a terrible barometer. A dude who is 5'10" / 225 lbs. with 5 % BF is overweight. We all know that isn't true.
@thomasvieth5571 Actually 5'10 and 225 is obese not overweight. Lol
Acknowledging it only takes me 30 seconds to type this out vs making the video. Professionalism is defined by the specific space and role
CrossFit feels more analogous to tennis than football given the players work for themselves not the league. NFL players are employees, so yeah you get fined because you’re costing the organization whereas in tennis/crossfit your compensation is decided by performance and self branding
Your so right I’ve lost 18kg in the last year my gymnastics have improved loads I’ve even managed to handstand walk a little bit and I’m 40 😂 but luckily I’ve kept my strength and actually improved it on some lifts.
Let’s look at this from another angle…. Would you be concerned with an athlete’s high weight or bmi if they were doing well in all events? To me the performance is what’s important. I would only be concerned if I was constantly performing poorly in a certain area.
Andrew, I really think you should find a way to interview. Rich froning and Annie Thorsdaughter on this subject. When they were signed by Reebok they were I think required to do quite a few things.
I even think you should interview Ben B. It'll open book conversation.
Maybe the difference is team sports (football, basketball,etc) vs individual sports like CrossFit. We all kinda know if we want to get a bit better at lifting, gaining a bit of mass can help, and if we want to get better at gymnastics, losing a bit of mass can help. But in an individual sport like CrossFit, being at a ‘non-optimal body mass for winning’ is only detrimental to the individual’s goal of winning. Whereas in a team sport it affects the whole team.
The cream rises to the top….laced with enhancements,
I totally agree with you Hiller. I have been doing CrossFit for 10 years and I have always been a good lifter due to being heavier but due to my weight and not being mindful of diet and other factors my workouts suffer.. I can lift all day but my weight is effecting my performance.. it is a fact! Man or woman, it is the same thing.
Was excited to see the backflip
Team sports vs Individual, the 'fine' is that they finish further down the leaderboard. If they employ a good coach, they'll be honest with them about that. Maybe for Kerstetter this is intentional to get her weightlifting/strength numbers up and as we move into games season and the volume ramps up, she knows that she'll drop some back to what is optimal for her.
Sabathia and Colon? You might want to take a peek at their career longevity.
It's an interesting conversation because there's such a different structure to a professional team (paid by the team, having standards set by the team as in your Bears example) vs. the current crossfit model where individuals aren't paid by a "team" model and don't have a prescriptive set of requirements to adhere to on that team. I'd be curious to hear the same type of discussion with athletes in more individual sports (tennis, marathon, idk?) to see if there's a model that could more broadly translate to the current structure of CrossFit.
Or, you know, CrossFit could just start paying it's athletes then make those benchmarks itself 🤷🏻♀️
I weigh about 185 lbs. Now that was not so difficult.
Mary Cain was a top tier track athlete who signed with Nike and Alberto Salazar. He and his coaches put crazy body weight goals on her with the idea that lighter equals faster. It made her sick. To the point she was no longer getting her period or competing in the level she was years prior.
She recently won a lawsuit against Nike. Which I believe she fully deserved after what she was out through
Hahah a back flip is easy Andrew just do it 🤣 plus you never here the women in mma complaining about having to be at certain weights for the weight class they fight in to be able to make the money they do as professional athletes. I mean if they miss weight they just lost a huge pay out
A lot of relevant points in this video.
Woman love the game when it works for them but hate it when it works the other way.
If you make it your the right weight
Exactly the correct answer.
Perhaps the NFL to crossfit comparison would obtain better if crossfit athletes were (a) under guaranteed contract, (b) guaranteed objectively high salaries, esp. for 2d-tier players (e.g., Tyson Bagent), and (c) under the robust union protection of NFL athletes. A far more apt comparison would be, say, professional tennis players or other elite individual athletes who do not have a an organization that ostensibly owns rights in their body and performance.
Additionally, perform a cost-benefit analysis of how you frame this conversation. Taking the time to specify that you're questioning whether an athlete's body composition is ideal for the given athletic task is little harm to you and minimizes the possibility that listeners will understand your commentary to mean, "X is athlete is [objectively] overweight." This would additionally decrease the risk of listener outrage, although maybe pundits benefit from upset viewers.
You should have added the videos of Matt and Patrick talking about their weight gain in the offseason
Talking about weight I actually think every year they should weigh everybody at the CF Games and make the results public.
The listed weights put by the athletes themselves are a joke. Does anybody really believe Noah Ohlsen or Pat Vellner or whoever weighs 185... come on...
I agree with what you’re saying, that’s why I keep saying the sport isn’t professional. Very few of the athletes are actually making any money through the sport. Mostly women have big sponsors cause they can sexualize their bodies but the men can’t, but there’s nothing wrong with stating the obvious and then backing it up with facts….. ppl like to avoid the facts when they want to feel triggered.
I will say.... going after the most social media famous person in Crossfit was a smart move for the fame.
Andrew's nothing if not opportunistic,
Used to think asking someone’s weight was improper until I started coaching CrossFit. Since the sport was born from fucking physics and biochemistry it was important to realize that my job was to use the formulas to control body weight for optimal health.
You are literally crushing it lately! So much to unpack here but I'll let you continue to do it for us. Keep up the great work. Part of what's wrong with society in general. Too much hypocrisy and people talking out of both sides of their mouths all the time!!! Then when they get called out they play the victim. It's really sad no one has any personal responsibility anymore. The one's that actually do have personal responsibility tend to rise to the top. I tell my kids if they are even remotely close to being savages they will crush all the weak-minded kids out there these days. Not just in sports but in life!
I think sometimes Hiller can be pretty harsh, but after hearing him talk about this, he is 100000% right. Makes me second guess my judgment on Hiller when he is right with this stuff to a T.
I am not sure Olenkowicz weighs 104kg. He is 184cm tall and I guess around 90kg body weight by the way he looks.
Kinda crazy we don't collect with data in competition
Hahaha Hiller is on fire! Scared the shit out of the dog
Jokes aside, amazing video! Great point!
There’s a video of Dan Bailey learning how to do a backflip in 30 minutes and then He and Rich did a workout with them.
If Bailey can learn to backflip, you certainly can.
There's plenty of videos of Fraser and Ohlsen doing them too, It had became such a common trick that I remember outlets speculating if it would become part of an event at some point.
Jason khalipa learned as well... And he probably was the heaviest athlete at the time.
There's also a workout k-star did with backflips and tire flips
Literally watched that video of Dan and rich, went to an friend that was a gymnast and was like teach me how to backflip. 10-15 mins later backflip’s learned
Professional means you get paid. That’s it. People can talk about anything they want. It’s not hate, it’s “talk”.
Those Reddit boys are keeping you employed. 😂
Pickell ball has a lot more professionals and higher dollar awards than CrossFit
I have a new badge!!! This is exciting
Weight is just the tip of the iceberg if athletes were to get contracts. Those contracts are extremely restrictive. Want to rock climb? You cant because it is deemed an extreme or dangerous sport and you will be dropped and sued for breach of contract. Those month long vacations will have to be scheduled and approved by the company. When a company or sport signs you under contract you become their investment. I don't think CrossFit is ready to be a "professional" sport with contracts, the company is far too disorganized, and the athletes are too distracted with everything else.
Make it like the UFC, by weight class. In that way people will put their crap together
You're a hammer and everyone out there is nails, so some folks are just gonna be upset about the hammering. Olivia's weight is a legitimate question in CrossFit. I looked up her lifts and she could probably shift to being a world class olympic lifter if she focused on that. Her engine is pretty great for carrying a few extra pounds. Laura Horvath shows that a bigger girl CAN win, but even Laura has weaknesses because of it. Olivia shouldn't ever try to be slender because her competitive advantage is in power, but if she got leaner, she could probably be a podium contender.
I forgot you had a husky. Getting my second one in a month. Number one is going to have a sister.
You’re on point, Andrew. I’m a 35 yr old female and have been like 60ish lbs overweight since 2020. First time in my life I’ve been overweight. This body positivity bs is just that, bs. These female influencers want to say it’s harmful to young female athletes to be on them about weight but it’s just TRUTH. it’s NOT healthy to be overweight. Period. Sure we don’t want to force someone into bulimia but that’s also on them. Want to be a pro and in the spotlight, act like it.
The job of professional athletes is to showcase what their bodies are capable of. Of course we're going to comment on them.
Here for the backflip
here for the backflip
…good point andrew…
The baseball example was awful cause Lincecum had a shorter career than Sabathia (19 years mlb service) & Colon (21 years mlb service)
If people weren’t so emotionally attached to the numbers on the scale, they’d be able to hear what you’re saying.
Ooh ooh! Ask my weight!!
What's your weight?
@@claytonwall4263 167.3, 11.2% bf. Worth mentioning- 2 months of Hillers programming has stacked on 13lbs of muscle and dropped bf %. 🦇
I'm new to this but if they want to be more professional and having competitions on the same level, then they need well trained judges. From your vids, it looks like the standard of movement and execution determines rep or no rep and needs to be well established. Also, like MLB, NFL etc, if the ref or ump has final say in a call even after reviewing video footage, the CF athlete has to accept no rep calls.
Welcome!!!
Sure there is a clip out there from Frazer saying why he wasn't as lean as most of his competitors as he felt with the extra fat he was able to push as others caught up to him. He felt if he was leaner he wouldn't of done so well. Also a clips where Noah Olson has spoke about his weight and changing it in order to improve his finishes in the games.
Don't you think that Dani looks like a Stifler's mom from American Pie?! Especially that clip @ 0:43
8:09 what about if he’s underweight??
Hear me out, average weight for a defenseman is 308lbs. He’s got an important place on the team just like the other guys who weigh less. I think I understand why you made this video but I’m having trouble with the “gain/lose a few” (maybe this means I don’t understand lol) These people are clearly at the top of the game in order to make these competitions even though most of them will never win. The specialized athletes make some of these events so much fun to watch whether you’re a fan or not. I’d say DS’s “fine” was her not making the games last year.
What about bringing the comparison to MMA - even with weight classes body composition plays a huge part. The more serious you are as an athlete it shows. Dropping excess body fat helps put you in the right weight class - you don’t need to be shredded but you can’t take the lazy route.
Do it!!!
They should introduce weight classes to the sport. Light weight, middle weight, heavy weight
Bartolo colon played 21 years and CC Sabathia 18 years in MLB. An average pro baseball player plays 5-6 years in the big leagues. Pitchers can get away with being fat ;)
Vince young is another NFL example.
Zion Williamson is a good, topical case-in-point from the NBA.
When are you going to address the question in the title... in the video?
3:12
7:29
8:09
10:20
11:32
2:20 yes you do care. time in time you go to your insta and “cry” about someone talking about your body
Classic Rory!
It is a great line
It's a trick question, when doing gymnastics...all of them, when doing weightlifting...none of them.