Has sitting quietly to observe thought any value? | J. Krishnamurti
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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Saanen 1980 - Question #1 from Question & Answer Meeting #4
'Is our sitting quietly every day to observe the movement of thought by your definition a practice, a method and therefore without value?'
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5 years I've been studying this man... Only now, after 5 years am I starting to reap the rewards of this man's life work. For those working seriously twds freedom, know that it takes time, but also know that it takes no time at all. 🙏
But as he had mentioned, freedom is not at the end, but at the beginning. 🎉
So what’s the change ?
Krishnamurti was a rare Indian perhaps a rare human who experienced his own truth and said don't agree with me, dont believe me find out your own truth.
Lol work... I first read this mans words when I was 13. Stop working my friend and be.
@plant worm , suggest where to start ?
Buddha was asked, “What have you gained from meditation?” He replied, “Nothing!” Then he continued, “However, let me tell you what I have lost: anger, anxiety, depression, insecurity, and fear of old age an death.”
The answer to the question is right here 🙏
And how is the world better?
@@kaushalsuvarna5156 world is world. the idea of it being better or worse is only about your ego.
One changes the world first by change onself@@kaushalsuvarna5156
which is ultimately the gain.
We all are so fortunate to have these great videos.
The uniqueness of JK is his ability to illustrate how to find answer rather than giving it. A true coach.
Wow, he would hate to be called a "coach" lol
@@alexkhouri such a lovely person can't hate anything or anyone
Carefully, with the rather ugly word "coach" you're creaing an authority of him. He refused to be called a Guru, Mesiah, etc. I'm sure he would have refused to be called a coach as well
Very well said brother
He wouldn't care about how people call him if only their mind would become quite :-DD
“The world as we have created it is a process of our thinking. It cannot
be changed without changing our thinking.”- Albert Einstein
I very glad to listen to this . Tkank you
If you try to change something you can't be changed.
Interesting. Attention is when the mind is most quiet. I'll remember this.
Beautiful summation
Do you still remember?
Yes, Attention devoid of intention. I must remember it.
A gental health reminder ;
⚠️"Pay attention to your emotions" ⚠️
You know what's sad? There once was a guru who meditated all of his life, to prepare himself for death, so he could be quiet even in the face of his own death. But shortly before his death, he got dementia and forgot about meditation. Even worse, he would ramble and squeal in terror randomly, without any context, his mind was at constant unrest. He died exactly how he did not want to die.
you need to watch it twice or thrice at different times then you will get what exactly he is saying...our brain will only consume what is up to for now. 2,3 more times to watch ..! & He is so sharp.
Sandeep Varma so what u get after watching it 3 time ?
Great penetrating understanding u have
Sandeep Varma no bro u have to only make parts of his sentence or words ,his uniqueness is his not give any examples or jokes because his not a “guru” or something mystical but he is a very great man but have no inner knowledge only knowledge of books and understanding he is also said that “everything is self knowledge”
Its true that he is like flower but no ultra instincts like “bruce lee or GOKU”
@@Karnalrealtor I can see sounds now. I can hear colors
quite ironic, a man denounces himself of being the world teacher becomes the world teacher.
A real world teacher would never say that " You should listen to me i am your teacher" He will always say " you are your own teacher" and that's what Krishnamurti did. :) :) :)
A wise man once said a fool thinks himself to be a wiseman but a wiseman knows himself to be a fool
It’s the only way. :-)
True.
If you're start thinking about yourself that you're a World Teacher, then sooner or later everyone will start to do that. This can quickly, smoothly and imperceptibly turn to cult of the individual and idolatry.
We all only have to listen to theirs words and confront them in our own life, and never worship the individuals, even the most wise ones. And only the wise ones will tell you - do not worship me. For most of the people it is very difficult not to do that because they're not strong enough. This attitude can be converted to fanaticism and teaching will stay only a blurred background.
He declined to be a Leader by saying "truth is a pathless world". It must ultimately be undertaken by oneself despite a plethora of Guides serving as your gurus helping you in various stages in your progress.
"The way I appear now, I will never appear again. I am Life, and I am always changing. But still I am, always. And I can always rest in myself."
Question: You seem to object even to our sitting quietly everyday to observe the movement of thought. Is this, by your definition, a practice, a method and therefore without value?
Now the questioner asks: What is wrong with sitting quietly every morning for twenty minutes, in the afternoon another twenty minutes and perhaps another twenty minutes in the evening or longer - what is wrong with it? By sitting quietly you can relax, you can observe your thinking, your reactions, your responses and your reflexes. What is the motive of those who sit quietly by themselves, or together in a group? What is the motive behind the desire to sit quietly for half an hour every day? Is it not important to find out why you want to do this? Is it because somebody has told you that if you sit quietly you will have parapsychological experiences, that you will attain some kind of peace, some kind of understanding, some kind of enlightenment, or some kind of power? And, being rather gullible, you pay thousands of dollars to receive instructions and a mantra which you can repeat. Some people have paid thousands of dollars to a man who will give them something in return - specially a Sanskrit word - and they repeat it. You pay something and you receive something in return; what is the motive behind it? Why are you doing this? Is it for a psychological reward? Is it that by sitting quietly you attain some kind of super-consciousness? Or is it that you want that which has been promised by your instructor?
So it is important - before we plunge into all this - to find out what is your motive, what it is that you want. But you do not do that. You are so eager and gullible; somebody promises something and you want it. If you examine the motive, you see that it is a desire to achieve something - like a businessman's desire to earn a lot of money. That is his urge. Here the psychological urge is to have something that a guru, or an instructor, promises. You do not question what he promises, you do not doubt what he promises. But if you ask the man who is offering you something: Is it worthwhile? Is it true? Who are you to tell me what to do? then you will find that sitting quietly, without understanding your motive, leads to all kinds of illusory psychological trouble. If that is the intention of sitting quietly, it is not worth it. But if while sitting quietly without any motive, or walking quietly by yourself or with somebody, you watch the trees, the birds, the rivers and the sunshine on the leaves, in that very watching you are also watching yourself. You are not striving, not making tremendous efforts to achieve something. Those who are committed to a certain kind of meditation find it very hard to throw that off because the mind is already conditioned; they have practised this thing for several years and there they are stuck. And if somebody comes along and says: "What nonsense all this is" they may, at a rare moment, become rational and say: "Yes, perhaps this is wrong; then begins the trouble, the conflict, between what they have found rationally for themselves and that which they have been practising for the last ten years - a struggle that is called progress, spiritual progress!
The mind is always chattering, always pursuing one thought or another, one set of sensory responses after another set of responses. In order to stop that chattering you try to learn concentration, forcing the mind to stop chattering and so the conflict begins again. This is what you are doing; chattering, chattering, talking endlessly about nothing. Now, if you want to observe something, a tree, a flower, the lines of the mountains, you have to look, you have to be quiet. But you are not interested in the mountains, or the beauty of the hills and the valleys and the waters; you want to get somewhere, achieve something, spiritually.
Is it not possible to be quiet, naturally - to look at a person, or to listen to a song, or to listen to what somebody is saying quietly, without resistance, without saying, "I must change, I must do this, I must do that", just to be quiet? Apparently that is most difficult. So you practise systems to be quiet. Do you see the fallacy of it? To practise a method, a system, a regular everyday routine, as a result of which you think the mind will at last be quiet; but it will never be quiet; it is mechanical, it has become set in a pattern, dull and insensitive. You do not see all that; you want to get something - an initiation! Oh, it is all so childish.
If you listen quietly, not saying the speaker is right or wrong, or saying, I am committed to this, I have promised not to give it up; I am this, that, the other thing", but listen to what is being said without resistance, then what you are doing is your own discovery, then your mind in the very process of investigation becomes quiet.
So can we, ordinary people, with all our troubles and turmoils, be quiet and listen to all the prattlings of our own movements of thought? Is it possible to sit, or stand, or walk quietly, without any promptings from another, without any reward or desire for extraordinary super-physical sensory experiences? Begin at the most rational level; then one can go very far.
How can i quiet my mind?
If i simply see someone speaking, i see many thoughts arising as well as i see my motive of seeing those thoughts.
@@shawshank..1375
Observe everything, without preference or rejection.
Choiceless awareness. Be aware without motive.
From my perspective, it doesn't take a physical posture or "proper" place to observe our own mind, it must be done uninterruptedly wherever we are. Any time, any place.
There is no right place or time to observe, there is only observing, that is the first and last step.
Perhaps from there, in that observation that ends up quieting our own minds, not as a sought after purpose but as a natural consequence, only then, perhaps life will begin to reveal to us the deepest and most unknown meanings of our own existence, ever reached by thought.
I practice it in any given moments by choice to observe myself and my doings regardless of any opinion or interference about the same
surender mekala also I falled asleep listening to this as if there is nothing else in this world to care for. Such is the charm of this gentleman. Hats off
Before you sit down quietly, find out why you want to do this. Are you seeking some kind of power? What is your motive?
“If you are interested in something, you are naturally attentive... There is no motive, no reward to seek. Start observing the chattering mind, become silent and observe yourself without any motive whether you sitting or walking. Then your mind in it’s very investigation becomes quiet.” JK
Summary: Drop all methods and just become quiet and observe the chattering mind without any analysis or motive whatsoever ... then you will transcend the mind and go beyond it.
It's so much more impressive when you drag it out for 19 minutes in an Indian accent.
do without any motive is also a motive
My motive is to end the fear
No, he meant to say do those things only which you are interested in. If you'r not interested don't do it.
@@devendrapandey4322 that means I don’t have to do homework anymore??? :D
summary: the hidden motives behind meditation may mean that you are trying to change something inside yourself, making progress, but this is nonsense, you are not understanding "what is"
I think- one cannot start with K but end only possible with K.
Yes very deep and true. I started off from someone else but in the end after so many years of practices ended up to JK.
It doesn't ends with k, k teaches to end with ourselves.
So true
U have understood k pergectly ,
i started off with Krishnamurti...think on these things.....many years ago
He helps us so basically, intrinsically, essentially and therefore, so deeply...
Yes... So deep...
Sourabh Raj Bapuli
He does say he doesn't help, but he has helped me.
What do you say about it?
Natty Campos
Natty Campos Some say he helps them some not. I find him frustrating. Not only because of his incessant deviation of topic but he constantly leads me into dead-ends. I find him Condescending too. He's far from 'being-there' (although hell say that himsrlf) I wonder how far he is tho.
Don't get me wrong I hold him dearly in my heart, for many reasons. I'm still an avid pupil and he'll slways be one of my tutors.
Y'know, maybe it be because of his time. A lot if what he says has become alot more succinct. Maybe that is because of him though eh!
Seeing just see .... hearing just hear
The motive of sitting silently and watching thoughts is not just to watch it. the objective is to change previous mindset that reacts to thoughts, the work here is to observe thought without judgement. The mind tends to cling to good feelings or thoughts and avert bad feelings or thoughts, the challenge is to be calm and unattached to both of the thoughts just witness. pure bliss showers when the state comes when you are unaffected by any of them, slowly you can enter the state of no mind. the purpose of sitting silently and watching thoughts comes not just by sitting 20 mins in morning, 20 in afternoon. The meditation is state achieved in between that watching of thoughts.
My experimentations, quite extensive with sitting meditation brought me to a conclusion that it's pointless to sit in meditation for the sake of sitting in it. Even if it's supposed to serve some purpose - even the one you mentioned. Simply because anything you do should derive from the real deep need. Not from a need for calming the mind or any other need that serves a rational purpose, but from The Need - kind of an urge in you. Deep, beyond any rationalism which makes life impossible because it utterly grasps your attention and demands to be seen and respected. This need is the truth about you. Some people have this urge towards revelling the mystery of life in a spiritual way. Others more outwardly in the realm of science or art or any other field. Some people might be extremely dedicated to their families others to achieving god knows what in sport. As far as I understand life, if you follow this urge in you, really focus on it and give yourself to it it will bring you very far. You'll calm your mind naturally - as a side effect - because you're gonna be concentrated on figuring out this what burns inside you. Your life gonna be real and alive. Be yourself, truly and honestly. Don't betray yourself. Nothing more is needed. And damn, you'll achieve wonders. If you engage yourself in practices believing they will reveal anything to you you're just distracting yourself. Take care and everything good to you.
Yes its called stillness
Yes,you are correct
@@Krzysztof_Kasprowiak well said... a very good advice.
@Ken Brown Which part do you think is like "trying to bite your own teeth" - "observing thought without judgement"? Or "changing the previous mindset"? The former is certainly possible; the latter may be just badly expressed - limitations of language - but needs explanation. Of course the mindset does not change if we are thinking: "Oh, I hate this mindset, I wish it wasn't here"! But maybe he just means the habit of reacting to thought with more thought, instead of just looking.
Excellent talk - it's great to have such depth of life explored. Thank you Krishnamurti for exploring truth of society rarely explored by speakers.
But what is he trying to conclude? I’m not getting it.
You can be quiet in day to day activity . By simply becoming the watcher of the thoughts. But i think in morning meditation you can set the tone for all your endeavors for the rest of they day. Not trying to silence or control the mind simply watching and not believing all the thoughts and impulses of it. Being present moment to moment not just in the time of meditation. Thanks JK true legend newly discovered your lectures and love how they let us investigate for ourselves !
Perhaps watching the mind is a trap. Perhaps redirecting one's attention away from thoughts to the breath or other somatic experiences is more beneficial. I believe the Buddha himself said that fully immersing one's attention on the breath is enough. It is the way.
Mr Krishna Murthy is very wrong about meditation...how can you say what you don't experience...I am an atheist...and I find mindfulness meditation one of the best experience of my life...there is motive to it...and there is no forced concentration...it is coming back from mind wandering to really observe and participate what is going on....many scientists artists or great great caliber used some types of meditation to achieve that state of mastery...which mister Krishna Murthy seems to question...
I only see him as a critique of everything ( to my very little knowledge)
Meditation is, and has been, the most important part of my life, not because there has been any motive but because it brings an end of sorrows, anxieties, fears and unnecessary desires. I don’t seem to have any motive to have an end of sorrows etc. but that does happen.
Surely desires, greed and so on do come back again. So do come back sorrow and so on. They must be ended again. Therefore to live a happy life I must have meditation.
But that way it only brings a TEMPORARY ending to that specific pain, or anxiety, etc. That is why you will always return to that, and that way you will not be able to advance and you can get stuck if you do not solve it once and for all.
All the emotions and sensations are normal , healthy & natural.
Its okay to have sorrow , sadness , anxiety , fear , anger.
But be aware of that .
Life back to life with maditation.❤️
Meditation ends the sufferings ,
No mind ~ no suffering.💐
@@jigarkheni9053
I disagree respectfully. . Its not "no mind- no thought". . But "No food- no life" and "No fluid- no life". Same with temperature etc. . If the body isn't served by these 'material' conditions no amount of 'meditation ' or 'no mind' or
'no thought' will sustain your existence on planet earth. Sad but true
@@nangotoman9429 There is no eternal peace in life, only in death. Hit the guru with a hammer and he will scream in terror internally, he is just self-composed to the point of apathy, so he can suffer without showing any reaction. Accept that pain is essential to life and you will have one less sorrow.
It is sad that you need meditation to be happy.
Humans are here since 200.000 years ago without meditation.
You don't need to meditate. You could stop to give too energy to this mind energy consuming thing and spent your time talking with people and trying to experience how human mind works.
Stop wasting time and energy.
When walking, just walk. When sitting, just sit. But above all, don't wobble.
From my perspective, it doesn't take a physical posture or "proper" place to observe our own mind, it must be done uninterruptedly wherever we are. Any time, any place.
There is no right place or time to observe, there is only observing, that is the first and last step.
Perhaps from there, in that observation that ends up quieting our own minds, not as a sought after purpose but as a natural consequence, only then, perhaps life will begin to reveal to us the deepest and most unknown meanings of our own existence, ever reached by thought.
Yes
It’s true we waste so much time when we ain’t examine our motives.
If u r interested in something, then u r naturally listening ! catch it and come up ! when u r original,u align and feel it .
yes... HE was only Gem ever produced by human race so far... people fail to understand him coz they just don't have such capacity.
Hey, what do you mean, only gem? You haven't met me. :-)
true man
dinesh parmar A child's amazement . Grows wider as his world of experience expands. Incomparably brilliant Gems are plenty.
Sad.
maybe others too but people sure twisted them with books and religions
Pure gold and still explained in a way even I can understand. This man was a genius.
Geniuses make also mistakes. K himself didn't want people accept all he said
I bet the world has never seen a man like this guy. Keep aside jesus n buddha. The guy is epitome of TRUTH. Unfortuantely most people dont grasp what he is saying. They'll have their own time to grow up.
+Stillness V I love to copy this excerpt from his 8/1929 Truth is a Pathless Land speech : "..But those who really desire to understand, who are looking to find that which is eternal, without beginning and without an end, will walk together with a greater intensity, will be a danger to everything that is unessential, to unrealities, to shadows. And they will concentrate, they will become the flame, because they understand. Such a body we must create, and that is my purpose. Because of that real understanding there will be true friendship. Because of that true friendship..there will be real cooperation on the part of each one...but because you really understand, and hence are capable of living in the eternal." Together, friends, we become the flame! That's his tireless, limitless love to mankind!
You said keep aside Jesus, Buddha. J Krishnamurthy has never talked irrelevant, I hope u too can focus on same rather than comparing. Just a request, thank you.😀
@Stillness V - Well, thats assuming you know what hes talking about to judge whether others can grasp or not grasp. Extremely arrogant of you to make that call, like you're above everyone else.
No need to compare, they are all one. The five sense are 'Seeing' seperation. The EGO wants to find the BEST and compare. It subtly becomes an EGO trip to claim you are following the BEST and you win because you found him FIRST.
@vphoneac you’re on point and to add, not only can people not understand what he’s externalizing, but aren’t meant to. The Truth is not popular nor will be for hundreds of years. It’s much easier to live in a materialistic paradigm than to question everything existentially. Those who do only make up less that 1% of all of human existence. And that’s ok. This what God intended. I used to be a person who pushed my “weird” thoughts into people, as time went by I began to understand that it’s just not possible unless they are open minded and are seeking True knowledge.
Meditation with motive is not a meditation at all 💯
Wow very true
Excellent advice,really helped me realize a few things after 21yrs of heroin addiction,Thank you for this,love and Peace
@Ken Brown Oh wow this is why social media & RUclips are amazing. I've never heard of this guy but I'll check him out.
Hey I wish you are alright man!
Great keep up and big respect 🙌🏿🙏🏿
Dear Jiddu, i wish i could have met you alive...
His intelligence is off the charts. He strikes me as one who did not suffer fools.
he also had no ego at all
it seems as if .... when you have seen the truth .... it becomes extremely difficult to put any answer in to words .... he follows one of the approaches .... of denying everything ....
effectively ... in all of his answers ... its just neti neti ... not this ... not this ...
That is correct. With due respect to him, he uses the tradition and symbols he has learnt, and tries to debunk them. In the end JK also agrees with sitting quietly for 20 minutes anyway, with a promise that you will not benefit from it. But this also is a learning process/quest. If he has practiced it and left it, why others should not try?
U krishnamoorthy tried to debunk JK, but did not gain much ground, (except for some Bollywood families.) People become Gurus and earn money. JK already had money and became a Guru, although he said he is not.
Sharpest mind to ever walk on Earth.
Vast, yes. Sharp, not really. It’s mainly abstractions.
I've been doing exactly that for about a decade...a sitting quietly practice...and all I can say is that IMO it has had a profoundly positive effect on my life.
I have also but for a good while longer. However I find what K says here absolutely correct in many ways. I no longer have to sit if I don't want to, I can just arrive regardless of surroundings etc etc. I am sure there are some lucky people who can meditate naturally.as K puts it, without any system etc, for the rest of us perhaps formal meditation practices points us in a certain direction where we can begin to discover the essence of meditation and not just a sitting exercise as so many have.
I agree. Meditation saved my life
Corrupted! ;)
Agree. It has profound positive effect on life.
I almost prefer solitude and the time I have to reflect on my decisions I've made . I think anyone who is trying to grow goes through.
14:38 Sit quietly, naturally and listen observe without resistance.
15:14 Short comings of practicing meditation to quiet the mind.
17:13 Then your mind becomes quiet in the process of investigation.
exactly, that is what sitting quietly truly means. No idea why he went into TM distraction, so funny, haha!
He sensed that the asker called BS on his "views" on meditation and got pissed, I'd say.
Isn't that what Mindfulness is?
He talks and I meditate.. 😊
his talks are meditations!
What is he trying to say? That it has no value?
@@vishalrozera2004 that it has value in observing without a motive and discovering the movement of thought without any effort, desire that direct the observation
So true
Welp, I have been deceived... Always looked like a she to me, although with a tinge of doubt.
I always thought that aiming to achieve a still mind is like conceptually knowing that you're exhausted from muscular tension and then using more muscular effort to try to relax...
Double bind
dude, you are enlightened
helpful thought. thank you for sharing
Same
What really helps is to separate your mind from yourself. If u can achieve that then it becomes small and you r not paying that much (or sometimes at all) to mind understanding it’s only mind and not you
He is asking people not to get cheated by fake guru’s. Mahesh yogi has huge controversies related to his billion dollar empire. Also, there are views that Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Ramana Maharshi suffered from Temporal Lobe Epileptic Seizures and suffered from schizophrenia. If you as head of family suffer from such illusions, what will happen to your family? I respect Krishna Murth’s advice on this.
4:57 "I know some people who have spent thousand and thousands of dollars to pay the man who'll give you something in return, especially a Sanskrit word - that's much more romantic than saying 'Coca Cola'..."
Damn, what a brilliantly terse and funny way to reveal that the emperor's wearing no clothes
I cudnt get meaning of this sentence.. what it is exactly
@@smart31740
You could not get meaning of which sentence madam?
Are you referring to JK' statement or tobo 86's comment?
@@srinivasgannavarapu5008 I think she's talking about the emperor wearing no clothes
Sitting quietly and watching thoughs, or activities which goes in the mind isn't Called a meditation. As we know that there are 1000s of thoughts comes in our mind everyday. They comes by watching something happening around us. So there are lots of thoughts in our mind. And these thoughts must be thrown away from the mind becuase its unnecessary and comes out of no where while we work, study or whatever we do. We don't even has control on it. It just come outside. It happens becuase when our mind becomes fully occupied with the thoughts then it becomes overflow of thoughts and our mind forcibly throw those thoughts outside. So we spare 20mins a day and watch thoughts in order to get empty from all the unnecessary thoughts. And to empty our mind. So that we can focus on our work, studies etc.
I have personally done this thing and what ive know this.
This is exactly what I was suffering and stuggling through some years ago. I was diligently doing meditation and some part of me kept screaming fuck it what the fuck is this somethings wrong. This man is unbelievablely wise.
Because of j krishnamurti sir I've learnt to observe the "me" i started to understand disorder and therefore by very understanding of disorder comes order I've completely understood that the world is me and i am the world.
How??? eloborate
I find watching my thoughts to be one of the hardest ventures I've ever come across. So many layers, so incredibly subtle.... Shapeshifting, backstabbing, betraying madness. I just have to keep at it.
Yes
18:49 "If you are interested in something, you are naturally attentive." Either our interest does not last long or we are actually interested in the result, not the observing. Then a question comes, bringing interest in the inquiry, consequently quieting the mind without effort. I guess that whenever the mind is not quiet, it means we are not interested in what is happening, rather in what could happen or has happened.
Thanks for this very poignant and profound observation...
Lately, my best way of understanding it is this: When we were children, we all knew what it was like to lay down on the grass and watch the passing clouds. We were fascinated--mesmerized--by the changing shapes. This was meditation, the deepest kind of meditation people strive for now with various systems. But it was so easy for us. We didn't even have to try. Sometimes this might have even happened laying on our beds, looking at something relatively "boring" like the light switch or a scratch in the paint on the windowsill. But we were in maybe a relaxed or sleepy state of mind that we still became fascinated and the mind became quiet and one-pointed at looking at this object. This is wht Krishnamurti is talking about: The lack of a purpose or a goal, the simple act of beng fascinated with something. In this moment of fascination we lose ourselves and have an encounter with our primal mind or pure awareness.
Not sure if I am able to get exactly what K is trying to say, but I'll share what I have understood, please correct me if I am wrong or I have missed any point, it ll help. I think what K is trying to say here is - instead of doing different meditation techniques to stop mind chatter, we should instead try to give attention to details of everything around us, without any bias in the mind. That way, our mind will eventually be peaceful.
To some extent, this seems correct to me as, whenever I do dhyan, pranayam or any other form of yoga, mind remains quiet for around 1-2 hours, then again i go back to square one. And this has been the case for last so many years(atleast with me). If we start doing the way K has told, we'll be doing this the whole day along with our regular daily routine and there won't be any pressure of "DOING" something special. I'll give it a try, lets see if it works :)
You sound like my budgie .
You have fully understood the point he is making.
Thank you very much for explanation i like your recap
"We are so gullible that if someone tells us something we don't have we want it." Such a powerful means for recognizing the root of most desires one chases in their day to day can so easily be the machinations of someone else's words rather than the product of our own volition...Creation knew what it was doing when it incarnated as this beautiful soul ❤
Observe your thoughts..listen to it carefully..i.e your own discovery of what you are doing.
in this very process of investigation mind becomes quite..
He talked for so many years. I wonder if anyone was able to know the truth experientially who listened to him.
I have never heard such innocence in voice of anyone......
DEEPAK chandravanshi yes bro... Ravi
?
because he had no ego
I just want to cry,
i feel my mind is conditioned for the thought of "studying" that makes listening to any thing that i find useful very difficult. Cause "i have to **learn** from it". In a way that's making me not even paying attention to whatever that i want to know about. I finally feel like i can truly say that i understand what does it mean to be here or to do something without motive or without waiting for something in return. For all the psychological burden that this motive bring, Just be here without trying anything, without forcing anything simply enjoying this beautiful moment and life. Thank you to Krishna murti and thank you to whoever made this channel and posted that vedio and thank you to whoever made that vedio
K is right and just calling out the motivation of all these people practicing meditation in hopes of reaching some transcended state. And then they can brag about it to their friends. It's stupid and silly. And even stupider to pay someone thousands of dollars for a technique or method. These are people who have everything, including money to burn and they're still not satisfied and want more, more, more. While at the same time, there's people in the world that are starving and who just wish they could feed their children. It's totally stupid and instead of putting K down, they should be thankful he's attempting to talk sense into them.
Sitting quietly, or meditating with a method, works momentarily on a very superficial physical plane. But K is leading us to implore our deepest psyche, to see ultimately if we're self-oriented, center-generated doers in this action world. We must be the doer with no center, no identification, no divisions, no conflicts. That's responsible fearless love in action, only mediation in life. Thanks K and friends.
how do you become the doer without center
Very good observation. On JK.
Thank you for that
haha, sitting quietly has not motivation, needs to motivation. K gets distracted by his own motivation against motivation IMHO in this talk :)
09:50 Without motive
12:54 U want to stop chatteriing. Conflict begins
15:15 Fallacy of method
This guy gets it. ‘Spirituality’ is a business. Made out of natural human behavior. The only truth you need to understand is that ‘consciousness is’, everything else is illusion. Now try enjoy it, you’re the only guru you need.
Krishnamurti is clearly referring to the guru from TM (Transcendental Meditation) Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who ruthlessly charged people for a lot of money before they got their sanskrit mantra. Even today the TM business machine acts that way.
This made me think of three words, all that happen to start with the letter s.
Simplicity, Silence, Stillness.
Robert Also, shut up and sit down.
An incredibly wise man!
Yes indeed !!!
It seems at its root the watching of thought is for brain to be sensing brain activity. It's so easy to forget that all consciousness, whether it is the sensation of space out there as the physical environment or the sensation of space-time thought as moment been or possible to be as so-called past/future, is taking place inside the darkness of skull as silent brain activity. Brain seeing, sensing brain activity is the discovery that reveals the root of our existence.
It took me 2.5 years to understand him. In the beginning, he would seem very complex but over the time the complexity melts away. Now I believe his talks has too much simplicity. It's refreshing and changed my life completely.
Yes me too at the beginning it's sound to much complex but now it's simple
What exactly changed? Can you please elaborate?
I see lots of comment, saying it took me X years to understand him. Is it some paid comment campaign going on?
Change ask right ques to urself & enquire
@@luckyat50 if you go through his talks first, you might not be able to understand fully. If you do, it's fantastic. But if you don't then you should move on and when you come back next time you will feel that it was so simple what made you not understanding him initially.
2.59 what is the motive behind meditation? 6.27 12.30 Practice concentration to stop the continuous chattering of mind
I'm telling you this is something else. I just literally found out the exactly same thing. I was doing my "meditation", if you can even call it that. I was laying on a couch and being by myself. I wanted to do this "practise", but I just couldn't force myself. Then it hit me.
Like a lightning from a clear sky. In a second I had questioned that why am I doing this, and also found out that all I want is to achieve something. I saw all that nonsense I was doing.
And then 3 days later, this video pops up. Oh well.. Life is a mysterious phenomena.
Nakki that's not meditation and you shouldn't do anything in life that you don't want to do
@@bsdpowa Yeah.. it's a meditation practise. I didn't do it though..
Motive. Why we do it. Why are we compelled. Finding that motive is a meditation in itself perhaps. Tie this to the 4 noble truths taught by the Buddha. The 2nd truth of the cause of stress is craving and clinging to phenomena due to ignorance of the Nature inherent in all things and that they are impermanent. You know the Buddha did warn about three cravings. Sensuality, being, and not being. Those renouncing the world and sitting in quiet meditating in many cases still crave various states of existence or experiences they hope to achieve through that practice. K was on another level. I really love his radical honesty.
I am wondering....So Krishnamurthy 's audiences heard his lectures for free !! Wow that's amazing.
yes he is exaggeration a lot, observing ''my thoughts'' doesn't cost me thousands of dollars
It might be strange to u to hear this, but it seems this human being is a man and woman at the same time, he s yang and ying intertwined 🙏
It is fairly easy to experience/understand that if one does meditation with a motive/purpose in a defined/rigid way, the essence of meditation is lost!!!! But often one may have to actually meditate with a pre-determined goal, to realize its futility!!! LOL
Sidtube10 well said. Practicing controlling thoughts that are limited to the body and it's temporal existance and allowing the higher faculties to takeover to universalise our being. Eternal identity breaking out of corporal concepts and counter concepts beyond time and space, birth and death, knowledge and ignorance, teachings and teachers, beyond all divisions, beyond manifest and unmanifest.
@@sanathansatya1667 just saw your message when YT recommended this video again! One thing I realized is that even in the realm of devotion /bhakti to a personalized God, they say that in the highest stage of one does bhakti to please their personal God, and not to please oneself!!! Kind of a similar idea!
好愛你
Master of masters!!jJiddu Krishna murthy..a must read of any child in the entire world!!A modern day Buddha!!!
but he was no buddha, no guru or identified with any ideology, that s why he is so special
20 minutes of your life well spent.
Observe the stream of thought rather than attempt to somehow force your mind to be quiet. Am I understanding this right?
So the answer is ..it is of value if it does not promise a phycological reward but just for the sake of understanding it
@Prashant Patil the conclusion is to change your mentality to this enlightenment version. That is pretty much what he saying
Thank you, it's amazing when you observe one self, how one realises how one has forgotten to be himself or herself.
He is not saying, meditation is generally bad (I know it seems like it). He is just criticizing TM very specifically for exploiting peoples vague spiritual desires, which they are not even able to formulate for themselves. If you enjoy sitting 20 or 40 or 60 minutes a day in silence to be present with your thoughts, who is he to tell you otherwise? There is no experience superior to another one. Just experience and your opinion about it. His clear and thoughtful way of speaking can really shake your believes, which I think is just what he intends to do. But don't believe what he says without questioning it, otherwise you just become a disciple of someone who doesn't want to be your guru.
Thank you for the subtitles.
A most important message of our age .
Sitting quietly is for me, to settle and recalibrate so that with renewed vitality, I can be responsive to whatever unfolds within or before me.
8:38 Ks’ opinion of why sitting quietly with no motivation is a problem.
I find it interesting always when K dismisses meditation as we know it. It is a documented fact that he as a boy meditated heavily before his process began.
prob why gurus are so against psychedelics. They'll show you more in a quicker time than meditation ever could in the first go and they wouldnt be able to make money off you anymore. Not that I advise psychedelics, but I think we've learned more from them than any gurus.
Meditation is listening to soothing voice of this great man ☺.
He is a budha of our era
My analysis: curiousity and investigation about anything will calm your mind and give you bliss on the other hand doing some sort of a breathing exercise on a routinely so that you can calm your mind and learn how to concentrate so that you can apply to your unpleasant job later will make your mind dull, neurotic and psychologically damaged,the real question one must ask is why do i find my job so unpleasent and why am i not curious enough to focus without cutting an extra hour to forcefully calm my mind.
I am at a loss ... According to JK nothing works? ... Has he offered something to those who seek so that they are on the right path?
He is essentially saying that as long as there is a certain motive in sitting in meditation then it is worthless.
But after a 20 minute session of TM, isn't that what you're doing, sitting quietly observing yourself.
"what is the motive behind sitting quietly for 20 minutes a day?"
Thank you sir
after playing the video for more than 5 time now I got what he meant....
The reward is the experience.
I've never seen his video where he teaches you how to find solutions, although every video is about questioning things but not how to find the answers to question and also how to meditate on the contrary he denies the contemporary meditation practices
Because the more we ask ourselves questions you will discover answers your own way...Hence we cannot be told what to do or believe. Cause everyone's consciousness is unique to everyone their own way...but I think most of these gurus out there are trying to say there is only one consciousness as we need to realize or attain or enlighten to reach it -by going to ashrams or these" yoga centers"😏
I think that's the whole point. If he gave you solutions and answers he would be the same as all the other spiritual teachers and fake gurus trying to sell you something. There is no teaching, technique or method that will give you what you want. Everyone is looking for solutions in the answer but it's in the question.
Reject all authority and find your own truth instead of buying into someone else's truth...this is the crux of his teaching..that's why he does that..😁
Somehow contradictionary when you start assuming he is telling you truth( and a lot of people admire him as if he was a guru in the same time saying he is not one...haha) and he is saying cleverly you should question him to. Is that manner in fact also a method....can observing not be a method in itself and why should you be choiselesly aware....whats the motive...what was JK his motive.....to be free persons, to be more thruely living persons on this planet? So is that than not in fact also a goal to realise ( to realise one True Self).....and the method here is to be attentive all the time.....and trying to make us more attentive with his speeches.....ending up beeing a guru in telling is not to follow one....haha. I am just questioning him like he is asking for....following the guru JK...haha
@@klaasparlevliet2952 yes in the end I feel I have learnt nothing… non plus… just be attentive to your interest…. And that is what everyone is doing I guess…this moment of typing…. And reflecting
I had to sit very quietly and attentively to be able to follow his explanations..
;-)
Step by step ,i thought this was qt obvious
Immensely important... sometime doing nothing means doing something..
When Buddha abandoned 6 years of ascetism and committed to sit under the Bodhi tree until he became enlightened - Did he have motive?
To seek a way out of suffering.
It is siddartha buddha, and nobody knows for sure if he did have or not,
Or had and gave up while doing so.
Yes he did obviously. I mean obviously no one can truly say 100% if he had a motive or not but any type of rationality suggests that you wouln't leave your kingdom, wife and kid with no motive at all. Even if the motive was truth, god, world peace or whatever noble cause---there must have been some motive at some level.
I don't know if it is true or not, but some say that after 6 years of meditating and doing all kinds of things WITH a motive, he finally gave up because he saw it is not taking him anywhere and thats when enlightenment happened.
Sidhartha got fed up with his practices and pauced. Might have observed the fallacy of Becoming. And he is Budha. Not he became Budha. As Krishnamurti put it, Light and darkness, illumination and ignorance won't go together. Violence won't evolve into Non violence. When one is, the other is not.
Meditation has lots of benefits in all aspects of life... Lots of research still going on world wide..
It has been proved that meditation has a good impact on health even if the person only seeks avoiding stress
Still humanity is in confusion and fear, full of conflicts..
so deep. This is probably the highest level of meditation. maybe the ultimate.
Or maybe the first...
It's just trying to be sincere and honest toward yourself. Don't glorify it like that 😂
We don't mind corrupted spiritually. Be quiet naturally
This struggle is spiritual progress 🙏
2:11😂 they taught me this in school lol
Does it mean that there's no point in meditating? Or?
I'm scared of enlightenment1... so afraid.
What a kick in the pant's to Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and the t.m program and rightfully so. I'm both a T.M twice a day meditator and student of Krishnamurti since 1979.Krishnamurti is on the dot. Saying that, any meditation practice whether t.m, shamatha, zazen, vipassana or Anapanasati as the Buddha taught is a good regular daily practice. Seeking sucor-suhka-piti is a good base practice to quiet up the mind enough in order to even begin to observe one self non critically, non judgementally to help give insight into ones mind stream Klesa habits. The idea of enlightenment at that point simply becomes a practice. Promoting, advocatiing Levitating, siddhi's- sidhi's, shouldn't be the point or aim at all. It's merely a carrot that bring's one to the beginning practice. At some point of any meditaton practice one may even experience spontaneous intermittent peak experience of Turiya -witnessing awareness 24 hours a day which could help assist and encourage one to make some conscious effort's to be sane, less needy less reactive or simply less ego driven.
Understanding >> Effort
It’s not clear to me what he is recommending instead of meditation. I would like to know - as my mind has become quiet, through & due to meditation, such that I am now ready to try his recommendation, if I could better understand what it is. 🙏 help, Ty
Ok, I rewatched this several times and think I’m beginning to get the idea. But helpful comments are still welcome !