This video got delayed a couple weeks because of covid. Total balls. Huge thanks to Starforge PC's for helping keep the dream alive. If you are interested in upgrading your setup or you just want to check out what Starforge has to offer, check out our link here: starforgepc.com/KarlJobst
yall know it can take decades to develop? you dont know if it's rare yet or not. also, you cant know that stuff without studies. It is most commonly diagnosed in people between the ages of 40 and 60, beyond the age of nearly all osu players.
Thank you, firstly for having me in the video, that is pretty cool. Secondly for pouring the time and effort you do into creating projects about this topic and previous ones. I have never come across someone with so much care for ensuring the validity and accuracy of the information they report on. Many people, including my self, *do* notice, you are fantastic, keep it up.
lol you barely have more subs than me. i havent uploaded in years and my uploads were just dumping random shit on here instead of keeping it on a hard drive. wtf dude, you're clearly trying to be a streamer but failing HARD. i guess tutorials on how to hold a pen arent very popular 🤣🤣holy shit, how fking autistic do you need to be to need a tutorial to hold a fking pen? LOL cringe levels of pathetic.
Am I crazy, or does it feel almost like this could have just become a new category? Cause seeing folks break crazy impossible scores/levels just using custom keyboard profiles sounds fun, if they just had their own leaderboard as a less serious and more silly competition.
@@Ericbombthere is private servers that allow users to cheat and have a leaderboard, usually though a lot of cheeters dont because its not “official” and doesn’t bring in any clout
I know right, lol. It's called projection. Same thing happens in relationships when your partner accuses you of being a cheater. Most of the time they're the ones actually cheating.
I can understand why this feels right but I've said very similar things to my mates in discord when I hit multiple crispy headshots in a row. Lucky I suck or they might think I actually hack!
For those who are wondering, one of the reasons Cloutiful wasn't suspected when he seemingly became a speed player overnight is because the release of the Wooting keyboard has shown that many legit players could suddenly attain way higher speeds thanks to the "Rapid Trigger" function of the keyboard. Rapid Trigger allows you to lower the point at which a button press is registered, so even when you only lightly tap a key it counts as a keypress. Going from a mechanical keyboard to a Wooting is essentially the same as going from a membrane to a mechanical keyboard. One stroke still equals one action at the moment a key is pressed you just don't have to press keys as hard, which is why Rapid Trigger is allowed while the DKS setting Cloutiful used is bannable.
@@CrimsonFlameRTR Normal keyboard takes more effort to press. Wooting keyboard take less effort to press. Less effort - more efficient streams, more staminal, more speed
Cloutiful's DKS settings were bannable because it was 2 inputs from one keyboard input. When he unpressed the second key it would hold the button press for a certain amount of time AND unpress the key.
@@BuenDude The limit is theoretically endless and the upmost limits of human/computer interfacing, AKA how fast you can humanly flick a mouse/tablet and tap the keys to the rhythm as perfectly as possible plus how fast the game can register those inputs without lag/input/delay/the sheer speed causing it to miss notes. Number-wise my guess is probably somewhere in the mid-2000s. 3K is a huge maybe, imo, although the top players might have a better opinion. That phrase just means that had Cloutiful actually FC'd the map (as in no misses) he probably would've had a 2Kpp score or damn near close to it.
for any viewers that aren't ingrained in the osu community, this is a copypasta stemming from the creator, who released a statement including this phrase. a few top 100 players got banned within a day of this announcement leading to the birth of the copypasta
fun fact: the guy that karl talked to to help make this video (sytho) was also the same guy that made the map that raised enough suspicion for cloutiful for the osureport thread to be made
@@ouey1354carpal tunnel can result from RSI but differs because of how it affects the median nerve. RSI heals easier compared to carpal tunnel, so I’m assuming and hoping that it’s only RSI.
At first this just sounded like negative edge in fighting games (releasing a button counts as an activation in the same way pressing it does) but the explanation that holding/releasing is an important in-game action and clotiful's keyboard settings were performing a double action on release (activate and auto-release) was very enlightening. I can see why the keyboard manufacturer also needed an explanation!
I've always appreciated the fact that Karl consistently does his due diligence when it comes to explaining the speedruns of these games, rather on his own or through the help of the respective speedrunning communities.
8:25 I do want to point out that this alone wasn't super suspicious, even if it seems as though a person "wasn't built to tap" like Karl said. In fact, the entire top 3 as of now, being mrekk, accolibed, and lifeline, all used to be considered "aim one tricks" before become top speed players. This is especially notable for accolibed, is currently considered by many to be the second best speed player in the game after aetrna/merami/xeltol, who basically spent his entire osu career doing nothing but speed.
@handsomebear. honestly cloutiful's speed scores were pretty gradual too. He also was setting some really insane aim plays alongside the speed scores, before gradually switching to becoming a full speed player.
It sounds like a lot of these cheaters who get caught are just dumb, and wouldn't get caught if they were a little smarter. That means there are probably cheaters who didn't get caught.
@@culwin I'm sure there are quite a few top players that are cheating. However, many many top players have played on other peoples' setups (LAN or just at their friend's house or smth), and always stream with handcam and audio, so we can safely say at least those players aren't cheating. Osu basically doesn't have an anticheat at this point, and it's up the community to figure out who is cheating and how, hence r/osureport
"I do want to point out that this alone wasn't super suspicious" - Maybe not alone, but wasn't it suspicious that he got so much better while refusing to show his hands (when he previously did show his hands)?
All this time I thought, the people with the tablets, where constantly tapping the pen on the surface to make the inputs. And I was like, "How the hell is that even possible!?" But now that I know you just need to hover your pointer in the areas you want and use the keyboard for the timed inputs, it all makes sense now. I might just have to give this game a try, considering I have a Wacom just sitting here in front of me. God I dumb...😅
some people actually do play like this it's called tap x (you do need one of your keyboard keys to play like this though) there's a steeper learning curve compared to normal but some people do benefit a lot with it
some drag the pen across the tablet surface as well that's thanks to the fact that you can disable mouse clicks in game during gameplay to prevent extra inputs but yea you should definitely give the game a try! it's fun to play along music you like
I would like to try this, and i have a graphic tablet, but 1,i dont want to scratch it bc i use it for drawing xd (idk if its really bad for the tablet, but i want to avoid that, i dont want to waste my money xd) and 2, i have really ass coordination, like, i have to use the same and for everything, bc i cant time my two hands, only one at a time. Have a good day.
@@catsandcrafts171 It's a genshin reference... "Child" is the name of a character from the game. Edit: this guess was totally false. Read comments below.
"Your brain being not fast enough to read it" is a normal thing for osu! beginners. People call it "reading the map", and it's a skill players develop alongside their aim abilities and tapping hand stamina. It's super important, and it's normal to not have as novice.
@@Long-Horse The brain is amazing, its probably something that goes all the way back to when we were just animals, having us focus on fast prey to intercept it
@@artsyscrub3226the brain is indeed incredibly interesting and powerful. The evolutionary traits that are ingrained into our brains from hundreds of thousands of years ago are still vital to our functioning (even if the specific reason for using that function has changed over the centuries)
Wooting 60HE+ ftw Not just for OSU, but for any FPS games It’s a crazy good keyboard Not just because of the hall effect switches but also the software and support by Wooting
Wirtual in Trackmania (racing game) got a warning for using custom analog curves (eg. 43% left steering on full press) using the wooting software. Trackmania Devs said it gave an unfair advantage. Cool keyboard though.
This made me feel old. I am old. But this really made me feel old. Glad that I switched over to TASs and finding enjoyment in solving the puzzles outside of my restricted physical performance. My wrists and fingers hurt just from watching this. Absolutely insane dexterity I wish that their hands will not hurt for a decade or more, and may the inevitable tendonitis only kick in like with my age past 40 or older.
Unfortunately a sizeable amount of the players end up developing various stages of RSI, one of them being Sytho, who Karl mentions as one of the sources for this video, who is currently ranked #8 in the game
Im about to turn 40 late this year and Ive been a pc gamer since the days of Doom on floppy discs. Luckily I havent had any issues from it yet but Im certainly not looking forward to it >.
14:28 In real time, the key stroke was held for 42ms. 63ms is the number that appears on the replays due to the double time multiplier set at x 1.5 in the game's internal clock. On Cloutiful's non doubletime replays the hold time is 42ms because the game's clock for normal speed is set to x1.
Something not mentioned is that cloutiful was not just a top osu player. There’s a mod called relax that basically turns the game into an aim trainer, and on one particular server, he was rank 3 out of the users of the mod. Combined with the fact that he’s clearly able to tap these maps, and it’s fully possible that he could have made his way up the rankings through pure aim alone. Granted, it would be a lot harder considering that there’s only two aim player currently in the top 10, but it’s certainly doable
@@NeroKoso fair point, but also remember that cloutiful spent a long time streaming with a handcam before he started using dks, and even in his current replay, people probably ran the usual tests to see if his cursor matched up with his tablet. So it’s highly likely that his aim is legit.
@@alacsonsmth of course I'm not saying all of them would be cheated.. But he could maybe still sneak few in that are cheated. I don't think his record scores were all streamed live. I just get suspicious about it.
@@NeroKoso I mean yeah of course, practically anyone can cheat some scores as long as they look realistic enough. That’s why its so important to have many scores proven legit so that there’s less of a case against you. But people usually cheat out of a mix of frustration and curiosity imo, and I think in cloutiful’s case it was probably frustration at not being able to stream with all the stream farm maps being ranked, and curiosity at how far he could go with this method
@@alacsonsmthwhat’s sad is he probably resorted to his strategy because he physically couldn’t match those on the top and likely would never had. Perhaps if we was built a bit different he could have been number 1 but alas biology denied him and instead of excelling at what he was good at he choose to take preverbal steroids and break rules.
Fun fact! The name originates from a very obscure Nintendo game called "Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!" which was the original Osu! down to the mechanics and style
@@oedipamaas2067 To my limited understanding 'osu!' is a strange sort of exclamation sort of a "hell yes!" or a "yo!" depending on context, with a very masculine/assertive sort of connotation. Another example of its use in media is in the anime Hunter X Hunter, where it is used as a sort of energetic 'yes!' by a young martial arts student; sort of 'filled with determination' kind of exclamation of acknowledgement. All of this seems to fit in well with where it sits in the title of the Ouendan game, particularly as it is exclaimed at the start and end of every level. It's a very 'hype' sort of exclamation. :)
My first thought was, "this reminds me of the Ouendan game I loved that I had imported from Japan almost 20 years ago." And then after googling, holy crap it is inspired by that game! Why have I not heard about this until now?!
because Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan's an incredibly niche game, and at this point Osu!'s popularity is so high it drowns out what little popularity the original had on the internet
@@Damaniel3 No but fr, I love JPOP/JROCK as much as any Osu player but I seriously wish we got more mainstream rock/pop beatmaps because they're some of the most fun to play when mapped right
9:18 elite drummers call this "valving" --using alternating fingers to push the back of the stick "up" and thus, on the other side of the fulcrum, the front of the stick "down" into the head. The cool thing is, the stick rebounds from the drum, back into the starting position, so you only have to do the positive portion of the stroke. Alternating two fingers is, theoretically, twice as many strokes.
Osu is such a gem of a game. High quality community made beatmaps, good popular music, free to play. No pay2 win, no ads, no battle pass. Can play offline
The hardest E+ songs on Beat Saber are well beyond me, but I can at least comprehend them. This is just insane. It looks like something that Star Trek writers made for Data to show off his inhuman skills or something.
You can comprehend the hardest Beat Saber maps? I can't. Even just sticking to the official maps, I'm currently struggling to beat Light It Up, and at the hardest part of that one I cannot consciously follow what's going on at all, I basically have to turn my brain off and let my hands move on their own. My hands have not yet managed to get through it in a proper run, but they've gotten close.
@@elifia I can't even beat the fast maps like Camellia on Expert, much less E+. But I can see the blocks, they're just coming way too fast for my sad, pathetic reflexes to do anything about them. But it still seems like something humans might actually be able to do. (The FOB pack is a fun one)
@@larryb5677 Sounds like you have the opposite problem of what I have then. When I mess up it's usually either because I failed to identify the colour/direction of a block correctly, or because my aim was off. And some songs have these sections where there's just a bunch of blocks really closely behind each other requiring you to basically move the sabers up and down to the rhythm instead of based on sight/reflexes, I *really* suck at those parts because I basically have no rhythm. I don't have any of the DLC, I prefer to just get custom songs from mods. However, I have beaten all non-DLC maps on Expert, and on Expert+ the only ones I have not yet beaten are the Dragonforce one and all Camellia ones except Crystallized (Expert+ Crystallized was substantially easier than the other Expert+ Camellia ones for me).
I recall the Trackmania drama about using Action Keys. I don't recall whether you have have a video on that, so here's my rundown. For the unfamiliar, the "strength" of your steering is important for all sorts of things, but unlike analog joysticks that allow you a range of different steering strengths, keyboard only has 100% or 0%. Nadeo introduced Action Keys that you could toggle to lock your steering to 20%, 40% etc. What one player named Wirtual did was program custom action keys on his keyboard for a more customized input profile. There was a lot of back and forth whether this was okay, whether it would provide an unfair advantage to people who bought more expensive hardware, and so on. As I recall, his records using those action keys got removed, but given the previously ambiguous nature of the rules on the matter, he was not sanctioned further. Why I bring it up is this: Wirtual, as far as I know, never denied it. He got a little squirmy when there was backlash, but I wouldn't hold that against him. That is the critical difference to the cheater mentioned above, as you point out: Cloutiful immediately tried to deny it and cover it up. He knew he wasn't playing fair.
Further, Wirtual never hid the action key thing. He had previously talked about using his keyboard in this way publicly several times, and that's why he was surprised by the push back. It makes it very obvious cloutiful knew exactly what he was doing when you compare them.
Wirtual actually made a whole video on that situation and eventually set an even better author time on the map without the use of a wooting so props to him
I think osu was the first skill game i watched. Watching the top players is like trying to keep up with a computer doing advanced calculus in real time. You just started and its already on page 5
@ImLazyfrfrnow that I'm 90k~ rank and can pass 8* aim maps and many techs I'm done with my skill grind, I can play any map I want to and I like how my time spent is now worth
"you're either built to tap or not" is actually pretty accurate. I was a top player years ago, reaching rank 250, becoming national champion and being world cup captain for my country twice, so its fair to say that I was tryharding quite a bit. I did all that with hardrock though. I literally could not do speed. If I was warmed up and did proper exercises I could for a bit play speedy stuff but it would usually just end up with me getting cramps in my hands or my fingers locking up. You either have speed or you don't, no way to train it. (I obviously mean REALLY high leveL stuff here(
Even looking it on a smaller scale. I know people who just CAN'T do any mario party minigames that require rapid button tapping. The just suck. I'm not amazing but I can do it pretty well. Thing is I've never been able to get substantially better. I seem to always just be the same lol.
@@william4996 Oh absolutely. That's why I always find it incredibly funny when people talk about "just play more" in this context, while they're just incredibly gifted at speed. I remember seeing some 5 digits that were actual speed gods but lacked in every other department. While I was very good at everything OTHER than speed. :P
My cousin once participated in the Osu! world cup for the german team. Im nothing but baffled every time i see his skills. Even when he is just casually playing the game while we hang out its quite the show. He and many others have put in years of dedication to reach such a level. Like in every competition its great to see a cheater get caught and banned. What they do is nothing but disrespect for the people who play clean and honest, like it should be.
He actually made a video on the topic, what an absolute legend. Now B(T)MC will have yet another video to react to that's not from within the osu! community.
The first time I played Osu! was in 2015 (though only briefly; I just picked it up again recently), and tablet was still the main way to play even then.
absolutely. the technology in this keyboard is absolutely cutting edge, and several of its unique features totally *are* allowed ingame as they dont violate any rules, and have totally pushed the bounds of whats possible in this game in a legal sense
It is to me but that is why I watch these videos. It's interesting to me how far some people will go to get the number 1 spot through illegitimate means. These people have to be smart enough to know that their footage is going to face heavy scrutiny whether or not the footage is legit. Yet they still do it 😂
@@secondghost incredibly accurate response. definitely enjoy the "ingenuity" of some of these cheaters trying to get away with it and getting called out
@@wizardsmix7961 Yeah osu replay hacks can be pretty crazy, dont see why you would bother tho, the game is all about individual skill your only cheating yourself if you do, like cheating at solitaire, kind of sad.
This kind of reminds me of the whole SpaceUK situation with Geometry Dash, where he was a genuinely skilled and talented player, almost beating one of the hardest levels of the time as his 3rd(?) level of that difficulty category but unknowingly turning on cheats right at the end. He was such a good player at the time and the run was so accurate that he wasn’t under any suspicion, and from there it basically spiraled, with him hacking every level after that, just to see how long he could go without being caught
Please rewatch Karl's video again. The level was indeed extremely hard, but it was one of the easiest of that difficulty category (I believe it was somewhere around number 80 on the leaderboard. Not an easy achievement by any means, but pretty far from the highest level of play). Also it wasn't accidental. He got 96% and lost, so out of frustration he used a TAS to finish. From then on absolutely every single achievement of his was cheated. Including stealing a few first clears of extremely hard levels.
@@bluestorm749 First of all, it was on The Golden, which I’m pretty sure at the time was well within the top 10. Second, towards the end he accidentally hit a keybind that turned on noclip, and he himself along with the rest of the community believed that it was a legitimate completion because of how close SpaceUK was to actually dying, which would have happened twice had he not turned on noclip.
As someone who has played osu since 2017 as well, you described the nuances of the game extremely well! I think a point that is important to make is that rapid trigger technology (the setting the Wooting is most famous for) is still fairly recent in the scope of the game’s history. A reason cloutiful slipped under the radar is that we have seen players make incredible leaps in speed ability directly resulting from access to this technology. Players like Accolibed, Lifeline, and even mrekk to an extent were aim focused prodigies that adapted to speed with the help of rapid trigger. It’s awesome and scary how much people are improving now, so cloutiful’s skill progression didn’t seem too farfetched until the Snow Goose incident. Great vid you absolute legend!
@@tangente00 Cloutiful was just spam tapping two keys at once which takes away the rhythm part of the game. Using a pen still involved a lot of skill for aiming.
@@tangente00so the difference is that the macro Cloutiful was using to suddenly rush the ranks of speed essentially made 1 press into 2: 1 on press and 1 on release, which means a 40 click sequence would only need 20 keypresses and effectively half the effort you need to achieve the equivalent of other speed pros even with rapid trigger and a tablet. Rapid trigger and a tablet makes it less fatigue inducing but you still have a 1:1 keypress to game input ratio and 40 clicks on the game will still need 40 keypresses. Cloutiful's macro trivialises a core skill of Osu, which is cheating. Aiming with a tablet and pen still requires accuracy and Wooting's rapid trigger still requires proper inputs unlike the macro he used
That is a false rumor made up to put down video games, think of a guitarist or any musician like that, you hold your hand in much more difficult positions and do much harsher things to your fingers and hands than tapping fast on a keyboard, i have played guitar for over 15 years now and osu for over 3 and my hands are stronger and more precise than ever before, it can cause pain and issues if you are dumb and juts push past a pain barrier which would be the same for anything, a map on average lasts about 3-4 mins long and you can take as long as a break between every map you like, it is the individuals fault if they get RSI or carpal tunnel from any from of gaming or osu or music in general you have to be rather stupid in my opinion
@@Long-Horse "Playing the guitar requires rapid movement of all fingers for an extended period of time. This produces one of the most common “overuse” musculoskeletal disorders today, called carpal tunnel syndrome. Anybody who uses their hand for rapid and repetitive activities is at high risk for getting this painful condition."
@randomdeliveryguy yeah but you can feel the pain building up, and this is when you take a break, if you persist through the pain then of course you can cause damage, it's like saying the gym causes damage to your body, it's inherently wrong but if you go to the gym and do 2000 squads with no break your gonna hurt yourself.
@@Long-Horse Depends, sometimes when the pain comes it's too late. It's not as easy as that, even tho I understand a lot of cases could be prevented if people actually heard more their bodies screaming for help. I know someone who has it and he didn't really start feeling anything until it was too late.
This is like the best researched information about a topic in osu! I've ever seen. Of course me and other osu!players understand most of this easier than non-osu!players. But still this was explained so well and on point.
It kind of is, you cant exactly start pushing your keys upward on a keyboard to decrease the amount of time it takes to start pressing down again but people do wiggle their hand to increase the speed that their fingers are moving.
@@zZSleepytimeZz yes u can.... keyboards exist now with keycaps that can trigger on PRESS and or RELEASE same technology used in the ps2 controller. yes thats painfull. a PS2 controller had this tech and yet sony ditched it.
@@miciso666 what you just said is literally what this video is about, pressing a button being 2 actions instead of 1 is considered cheating. Relating having a secondary action for a key when released to drumming is like imagining when a drummer lifts his stick he hits another drum that was above, its nowhere near the same thing i or the original comment described.
thats true! he said its a bs trial so it is! man lol @ him if he loses it tho. like fr all that shit talk if the clown gamer gets the W on him its joever
@@superanimeniac Imagine simping for Billy after listening to him talk for more than 15 seconds. He talks like he discovered penicillin, and single handedly won the cold war, all by making a giant pixellated monkey fall down.
In the fighting game community, we call button presses that register on release negative edge. Negative edge can help with hitting your combos consistently.
I will say that Osu! is a game that has a nice visual design, but goddamn, I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it is to develop top-level skills for it. Just watching that really floors me to see people blitz through with such precision when I can barely even follow it with my eyes alone. That said, glad that the community has such attentive members smoking out less-than-honest persons. Cheating is never worth it.
I have been playing the game for 3 years and spent around 200 hours of playtime (not counting being in the menu or having the game in the background, just gameplay) and I am still rank 400k. You can get good at the game without being cut out for clicking circles, but some people just don't have the genetics to play this game like me haha.
I play another rhythm game, sort of like guitar hero but a little different. I remember when I first started the game I was AWFUL, and thought "how the hell do people even play this?!" as it was so fast and my brain couldn't keep up. I decided to keep playing and now the fastest parts feel slow. I totally get how this would apply with Osu but like... Top level play is INSANE in this game
What I find interesting about the visual design is that the new client, osu!(lazer) is also an open-source project, meaning it's probably the only open-source game that's actually being played.
Funniest thing of all is that those clips are just two players who are good in *their* respective skillsets. There are also very few players who manage to combine both of these, and it looks at least 5x more impressive than both of these combined. Best example would be anything from the current #1 Global "mrekk", he's widely regarded as the best player ever, and that not just because of the fact that he's Rank 1, but also just because of how far ahead he is mechanically compared to anyone else.
"I'm just not a hands on kind of guy" >Plays guitar >Tries every game he covers to learn how it works >Plays piano >Video edits Karl selling himself MAD short.
2:10 I would not even have batted an eye, AI-powered noise cancellation like Krisp and RTX Noise (part of Nvidia Broadcast App now) do a ridiculously good job of removing any keyboard noise.
Always love how you deep dive into these communities/games that are new to you and explain it to the viewers so they can understand the whole context of the topic correctly
@sirmeowsalot9314 hate that song... mostly because of the controversy surrounding the live performance at ESC 2011 with additional rehearsals and all that stuff...
I can see a touch keyboard being a possibly better choice as the reduced movement distance can increase potential tapping pace. Still looks like carpal tunnel, arthritis, and tendinitis rolled into one.
If he didn't think it was cheating he shouldve immediately put up a post with something like "alternate keyboard settings for non-speed players" or whatever. And then there could have been a debate whether or not it's allowed. The issue is not the action in and of itself, it's the sneakiness surrounding it.
DKS has been banned as soon as it was publicly released edit: nvm it was the rappy snappy feature not DKS, I got confused. But it's basically the same as DKS setting cloutiful used
I agree, there is at least SOME amount of grey-area around the software he used. But, once he made attempts to conceal the truth, he threw any benefit of the doubt out the window. If he was honest, the worst case scenario would probably just be him having to switch settings (and at best, maybe even being allowed to keep using it!)
osu is not a speedrunning game. there are no categories and global leaderboards are shared by every playstyle, doesn't matter what you use: mouse or tablet, touchscreen, keyboards or foot pedals or even beer cans, someone made that work. it's all the same. the rapid trigger function of a wooting keyboard is allowed because it's still the same input method as normal keyboard, it's just more accurately tracking your keystrokes. it's mostly about lowered actuation point on the switches making it possible to tap without fully bottoming out the key, which helps greatly with speed and stamina. you still need play a game as usual and have good techique for this to be effective. cloutiful used a dynamic keystroke option to modify his inputs to gain competitive advantage. it made double tapping, the most rudimentary way of cheesing the patterns, work as if he was actually putting in the effort to tap properly. this was achieved by modifying how the keystroke gets registered, making it functionally a macro, which is strictly prohibited in the game rules. there is no chance at all that it could have been allowed if he was straight forwards about it and he knew it, that's why he hid it.
@@Iokser Well technically, there is actually a separate leaderboard for touchscreen players lol. Though I agree I'm 99.9% sure they wouldn't do that for something like this.
This is a game I legitimately have no clue how people play. I genuinely cannot understand or wrap my head around someone playing this game physically because it looks so ridiculously difficult. I'm being serious when I say I cannot understand this. I seriously cannot conceptualize or put it into any sorta frame of reference in which my brain can comprehend how to play this game much less how someone plays it at such an exceedingly high level and speed. It looks like some made up game on a 90s crime show that is an episode about some video gamer who had a heart attack from playing a game too fast or some bullshit like that honestly. It doesn't look real to me. I just...don't understand how it's possible.
I play osu quite abit and this game LOOKS insane at first it did to me aswell but as u keep playing you develop a type of "Muscle memory" where even if sometimes u dont know whats going on your hands will automatically click the circles...In Osu when ur fully locked in you go into a "3rd person" typa view where ur eyes are looking at the entire screen and not at a single point and you automatically play...Osu is more about your 6th sense than people often realize ofc u can brute force everything through sheer skill but at some point u do reach a level where u cant understand whats going on and thats when its just up to your body.
Great video but one particular thing for non osu! players to emphasize the difficulty of streaming high speeds is that it does require a significant amount of tension and in some sense is similar to jitter tapping but the difference is that if you just hold your fingers and jitter click you will be doing what is known as double tapping which is what cloutiful was doing with the use of DKS to make the inputs register as alternating skilled stream players like Ivaxa vibrate their hands with tension but in such a way where their inputs are alternating and they can perfectly control the speed of the vibration of the muscles which requires countless hours of practice and months or even years of building up the muscles required to do this especially for an extended period.
@@CVireq_ I kind of see why he said it. As an Osu player for over 6 years now, you barely follow the beat of the song and just look at the circle and click it by muscle memory, especially stream maps. Osu!Standard is more of an aim game rather than a Rhythm game itself.
Sad that it seems I'm watching more "Speedrun Cheater Caught" videos than "Speedrun New PB/WR" videos lately. But I guess it does makes sense, as there's still a good number of uncaught ones out there. Great video as always!
The tensing for jitter presses in games was something I did often as a teenager. Probably why my hand is fucked these days. As a 31 year old I can still do it if I accept that my wrist will sting for the rest of the day. I'm amazed these guys can do that day after day, but they probably take better care to avoid issues.
Difference between a 95 and a 100 % play in osu can be like doubling the performance points making jitter tapping actually mostly useless in osu as it isnt controlled, people only use it to play things outside of their skill range. Most people will be fine in osu if they stop playing the moment it hurts(alotta people still cant manage that)
It's so crazy to me seeing an osu! video on a channel this massive, and one that I watch actively no less Massive props to you for covering this story!!
I know the subject of this video is the cheater but the real star is the sheer amazing gameplay. I mean the twitch skills on display here are inhuman! Jitter style? 15 taps/sec? Keep entire arm tensed? Look at the skill needed to aim in this game. Madness and so cool. Excellent video as always!
Having bursts of improvements is common, even if they appear further apart, it's how I got into 4 digits with mostly No Mod. Nothing compared to the top players, but I was cautious at first when the stories first arise. Thanks for the video!
Never played osu! but I play others and this is true. Also some days I feel like u can just be absolutely insane and the next ur missing easy notes lol
@@snared_it's much easier to spam both keys at once than alternating the key presses at the same speed of inputs. Usually, when you press two keys at the same time the way the cheater did, your accuracy gets so bad to the point that your score is now worth much less pp. The cheater was able to spam both keys down at the same time without losing accuracy by binding one key to press when it's being lifted up instead of pressed down. This made the keys alternate presses even though he was pressing them at the same time. If he hadn't done this, his scores would be valued much lower and he may not have even been in the top 30. osu! also has a general rule that one input must equal one action, but the cheater's inputs (on one key only) had two: 1. Send a press input 2. Release the press input a set amount of time later Though this general rule wouldn't have been applicable if the input was stopped when he lifted the key entirely instead of deactivation after a set amount of time (it would probably still be considered cheating though) This was definitely one of the more nuanced cheating scenarios. If you want a more obvious cheating scenario I recommend looking up fia (intricate and consistent cheating and multiaccounting for like 10 years).
The streaming technique is insanity. I’ve been a guitar player for about 20 yrs or so, literally these speed runners are practicing insane finger trills for extended periods of time. Absolutely bonkers what people can do.
i play both guitar for 15 years and osu for 3 years and trust me when i say this osu is not even comparable with the amount of skill needed for the guitar, the bar of entry for guitar is beyond what high level osu is, the game is very skillful don't get me wrong but, that 20 years of guitar is not even scratching the surface of the instrument, where as if you put 20 years in osu you would be a top player without a doubt, i hope you get what i mean haha.
@@BrunodeSouzaLinoin streams you play 4 hit circles a beat so they are considered 1/4ths in game (actually 1/16ths in music language) The fastest bpm speed players are consistent on is 330 bpm which is 1320 circles clicked per minute or 22 circles clicked in a second. Tho there’s a player named ivaxa who’s pushing 375 bpm so about 25 circles clicked in a second .he and another player known as zestiny have scratched the surface of 400 bpm(27 circles tapped per second)
I understand why someone would feel the need to cheat (although I don't think it's acceptable), but just eat crow when you get called on it. It's the deceitful double downs that always make a bad situation worse.
Yeah I find the behavior patterns in damage control to really show off the psychology that is one layer below the controlled performance of no-stake interactions.
The only time i get cheating is if its for survival, you gotta be really soft and perthitic to want to cheat at a game or competition, get help if you think that's ok.
I will have a fantastic day because of this amazing video this morning. Thank you very much. I love these kinds of stories where not only are interesting cases shown, but details are explained in a way that allows me to learn something new.
Great video as per usual! I used to play osu liek 10 years ago and it was a bit of a nostalgia trip to watch this as well :) btw a video suggestion: CS2 Surfing and KZ (community made game modes). Valve is slowly killing these communities and it would be worth to shine a light on the situation. It's a bit too complicated to put in a comment but there are plenty of surfers and kzers that would surely love to help out.
I'm not familiar with Elite Beat Agents, but I was thinking that it looked like a much more chaotic version of Final Fantasy's Theatrhythm Final Bar Line without the graphics (and of course the awesome Final Fantasy music).
Elite Beat Agents is a spiritual sequel to the original version of Osu on the DS (Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan). The PC game osu! in this video is inspired by those games, but technically the original Osu came out before Elite Beat Agents.
osu players always abbreviate everything for easier communication, so we do indeed call it "pp". nobody ever says "performance points", but this isn't the only example, as we also call the modifications by their abbreviations for example. "doubletime" turns into "dt", "hard rock" into "hr", "hidden" into "hd" and so on. we even abbreviate the standard gameplay of not using anything down to "nm" for "no modifications" so this isn't even a karl thing, but rather an osu thing. osu players say the funny word daily.
Small correction at 6:04. The game considers all plays ever made by the player, not just the top 100. However, because of the weighting their impact significantly drops.
Wrong. The game only considers your top 100 plays. The real reason why you gain/lose a very minimalistic amount of ranks with plays that wouldn't end up in your Top 100 however, is because of a thing called "Bonus PP". Basically, the more you play, the more PP you can get. It used to go all the way up to 416.6 Bonus PP, which is what you would've gotten after 25.397 different plays. But 4 months ago, this number was changed, and now you'll get the 416.6 Bonus PP after just 1000 plays. But more than that will never be given. You will forever only get a max amount of 416.6 Bonus PP, and if anything, it'd only increase by going to 416.66, 416.666, 416.6666 etc. That's why people always gain/lose ranks after every play. That, and also because they're obviously *not* the only person playing the game. But in terms of raw weighting, osu only takes your top 100. Everything below the top 100 is weighted as 0%, giving you a grand total of, surprise, 0 PP.
@@tayuno @r_se Where did you guys learn that from? Kinda curious since it's a pretty common misconception that only your top 100 plays count towards your total pp.
It's probably the temptation that is hard to avoid if you're okay but not peak/top of the ranks, and once you're in that mindset and mentality, you're not aiming to cheat, you're aiming to do the best. The problem with skill games is, you can't get better easily. Biology kicks in, Carpal Tunnel, Age, Nerve/compression damage, sic. You slow down, need more recovery time, et al. So there's a need to peak. To hit a good rank, and then retire. Multiply that by every player wanting rank play. But, temptation is always around the corner. Competition breeds inadequacy, and this is the true test of character. Are you the person that changes, or does the competition change you to pull down other people so there's room to grow. Do you start banding together, or pulling people down to get ahead. Do you gather people who are weaker so you feel stronger despite the lack of progression, etc. When you start comparing yourself to others, becoming elitist or changing your perspective on others, etc. Hence the community starts to pull apart others to find their 'magic', in order to gain something from them. Long-term Competition drives people to make irrational moves to advance, the problem being one of crabs-in-a-bucket. Once one person gets a lead up, the others drag them back in because they also want to escape their current position and replace the other person. The wooting keyboard was likely the temptation that drove people to make choices they wouldn't have thought about.
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
This video got delayed a couple weeks because of covid. Total balls. Huge thanks to Starforge PC's for helping keep the dream alive.
If you are interested in upgrading your setup or you just want to check out what Starforge has to offer, check out our link here: starforgepc.com/KarlJobst
-please lowercase the osu in the title-
If only i had money
Bro got sponsored by the company with the dick and balls logo
Got sponsored by the dick logo company yay.
Ay thanks, was looking for a new pc.
"i'm literally cheating"
-Guy Cheating
Reverse psychology doesnt always work ig
What are you gonna do, stab me?
Freudian slip
IM UNIRONICALLY CHEATING
LMAO I saw this comment before it came up in the video and I thought no fuckin way
I didn't realize they invented a carpal tunnel speed run
carpals are very rare occurance in the osu scene
unless you genuinely just dont have good tapping form then yeah injuries are very much more likely
if you play with correct form then it is very rare
Nah, this game pretty much forces you to relax your muscles to see any improvement
yall know it can take decades to develop? you dont know if it's rare yet or not. also, you cant know that stuff without studies. It is most commonly diagnosed in people between the ages of 40 and 60, beyond the age of nearly all osu players.
Thank you, firstly for having me in the video, that is pretty cool.
Secondly for pouring the time and effort you do into creating projects about this topic and previous ones.
I have never come across someone with so much care for ensuring the validity and accuracy of the information they report on.
Many people, including my self, *do* notice, you are fantastic, keep it up.
lol you barely have more subs than me. i havent uploaded in years and my uploads were just dumping random shit on here instead of keeping it on a hard drive. wtf dude, you're clearly trying to be a streamer but failing HARD. i guess tutorials on how to hold a pen arent very popular 🤣🤣holy shit, how fking autistic do you need to be to need a tutorial to hold a fking pen? LOL cringe levels of pathetic.
Am I crazy, or does it feel almost like this could have just become a new category? Cause seeing folks break crazy impossible scores/levels just using custom keyboard profiles sounds fun, if they just had their own leaderboard as a less serious and more silly competition.
@@itchiegames are you always so obviously obnoxious
@@Ericbombthere is private servers that allow users to cheat and have a leaderboard, usually though a lot of cheeters dont because its not “official” and doesn’t bring in any clout
+1
His big mistake was openly admitting live on stream that he was cheating. That was a subtle clue that some people picked up on.
People were already on him YEARS ago. No cap.
@@AduhDhika??
The kid is like Pinocchio
I know right, lol. It's called projection. Same thing happens in relationships when your partner accuses you of being a cheater. Most of the time they're the ones actually cheating.
I can understand why this feels right but I've said very similar things to my mates in discord when I hit multiple crispy headshots in a row. Lucky I suck or they might think I actually hack!
For those who are wondering, one of the reasons Cloutiful wasn't suspected when he seemingly became a speed player overnight is because the release of the Wooting keyboard has shown that many legit players could suddenly attain way higher speeds thanks to the "Rapid Trigger" function of the keyboard. Rapid Trigger allows you to lower the point at which a button press is registered, so even when you only lightly tap a key it counts as a keypress. Going from a mechanical keyboard to a Wooting is essentially the same as going from a membrane to a mechanical keyboard. One stroke still equals one action at the moment a key is pressed you just don't have to press keys as hard, which is why Rapid Trigger is allowed while the DKS setting Cloutiful used is bannable.
Can you explain the Wooting response? Karl didn't explain that at all. He just said they were educated.
@@CrimsonFlameRTR Normal keyboard takes more effort to press. Wooting keyboard take less effort to press. Less effort - more efficient streams, more staminal, more speed
@@finesseandstyle But the rapid trigger function is not the function that is considered cheating, you are just restating the original post lol
@@Flixlimyeah if you understand that then how are you confused?
Cloutiful's DKS settings were bannable because it was 2 inputs from one keyboard input. When he unpressed the second key it would hold the button press for a certain amount of time AND unpress the key.
"The two thousand pp choke" is a new phrase I wish I had heard sooner
been playing osu since 2016 and i still laugh a little whenever I hear PP
Domain Expansion: Choke of Two-Thousand PPs.
So the limit is 1999 pps
@@BuenDude The limit is theoretically endless and the upmost limits of human/computer interfacing, AKA how fast you can humanly flick a mouse/tablet and tap the keys to the rhythm as perfectly as possible plus how fast the game can register those inputs without lag/input/delay/the sheer speed causing it to miss notes.
Number-wise my guess is probably somewhere in the mid-2000s. 3K is a huge maybe, imo, although the top players might have a better opinion. That phrase just means that had Cloutiful actually FC'd the map (as in no misses) he probably would've had a 2Kpp score or damn near close to it.
@@JonathanScarlet the joke
your head
Active cheaters in the top 100? You really think we would let that pass?
for any viewers that aren't ingrained in the osu community, this is a copypasta stemming from the creator, who released a statement including this phrase. a few top 100 players got banned within a day of this announcement leading to the birth of the copypasta
Minecraft speedruns be like
Well they got to rank 3..so it seems like they did to some extent
𝔸𝕔𝕥𝕚𝕧𝕖 𝕔𝕙𝕖𝕒𝕥𝕖𝕣𝕤 𝕚𝕟 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕥𝕠𝕡 𝟙𝟘𝟘? 𝕐𝕠𝕦 𝕣𝕖𝕒𝕝𝕝𝕪 𝕥𝕙𝕚𝕟𝕜 𝕨𝕖 𝕨𝕠𝕦𝕝𝕕 𝕝𝕖𝕥 𝕥𝕙𝕒𝕥 𝕡𝕒𝕤𝕤?
@@playakatsukirelaxThanks for the explanation. I was so confused about how random the comment was.
fun fact: the guy that karl talked to to help make this video (sytho) was also the same guy that made the map that raised enough suspicion for cloutiful for the osureport thread to be made
Sytho my goat got carpal tunnel 😭
63 SPOTTED
63
please no. we dont need more stupid numbers
bmc
bmc
please stop i cant stop seeing 727 everywhere, i dont wanna see 63
Carpal tunnel - GOTY edition.
@@hndldsntz Sytho who appeared in the video literally got carpal tunnel last week
Osu creator needs to be stopped. /j
@@ouey1354 right after his carpal tunnel post didn’t he say that it was probably RSI instead?
@@CVireq_ carpal tunnel syndrome is a form of RSI iirc. But maybe he meant a different type of RSI or something.
@@ouey1354carpal tunnel can result from RSI but differs because of how it affects the median nerve. RSI heals easier compared to carpal tunnel, so I’m assuming and hoping that it’s only RSI.
There's always a cheater around the corner no matter where you go.
Sorry, I accidentally activated the "Oops, all cheaters!" code and don't know how to turn it off.
Once a cheetah, always a cheetah.
Everyone is a cheater.
I dont believe any speedrun as much as I dont believe any olympic athelete that he isnt juiced.
Especially if money is involved.
Aim Trainers, where the cheaters can't get you
At first this just sounded like negative edge in fighting games (releasing a button counts as an activation in the same way pressing it does) but the explanation that holding/releasing is an important in-game action and clotiful's keyboard settings were performing a double action on release (activate and auto-release) was very enlightening.
I can see why the keyboard manufacturer also needed an explanation!
I'm gonna negative edge Billy 214S all over you urrrgghhjjjj!!!!!
I was just watching this and also thought its just negative edge lul
I mean essentially it is in fact just negative edge, yes. Osu players are just touchy about it
i never thought i’d see you covering osu!. love your videos ❤
actual peppy Dean Herbert himself 😮😮
PEPPY???? CAN I GET 1PP😢
my goat
the dean himself
holy cow the peppster himself?!?!?
This is the first time I've seen someone outside the Osu community explain the game correctly
Karl has a knack for that (or hard work research - one of the two)
@@glennmorrow2755 Couldn't be both?..
I've always appreciated the fact that Karl consistently does his due diligence when it comes to explaining the speedruns of these games, rather on his own or through the help of the respective speedrunning communities.
@@glennmorrow2755 He definitely at the very least does proper research and consult active players when covering unfamiliar games
How can you even explain this game wrong
8:25 I do want to point out that this alone wasn't super suspicious, even if it seems as though a person "wasn't built to tap" like Karl said. In fact, the entire top 3 as of now, being mrekk, accolibed, and lifeline, all used to be considered "aim one tricks" before become top speed players. This is especially notable for accolibed, is currently considered by many to be the second best speed player in the game after aetrna/merami/xeltol, who basically spent his entire osu career doing nothing but speed.
true, but they didn't do it over night
@handsomebear. honestly cloutiful's speed scores were pretty gradual too.
He also was setting some really insane aim plays alongside the speed scores, before gradually switching to becoming a full speed player.
It sounds like a lot of these cheaters who get caught are just dumb, and wouldn't get caught if they were a little smarter. That means there are probably cheaters who didn't get caught.
@@culwin I'm sure there are quite a few top players that are cheating. However, many many top players have played on other peoples' setups (LAN or just at their friend's house or smth), and always stream with handcam and audio, so we can safely say at least those players aren't cheating. Osu basically doesn't have an anticheat at this point, and it's up the community to figure out who is cheating and how, hence r/osureport
"I do want to point out that this alone wasn't super suspicious" - Maybe not alone, but wasn't it suspicious that he got so much better while refusing to show his hands (when he previously did show his hands)?
All this time I thought, the people with the tablets, where constantly tapping the pen on the surface to make the inputs. And I was like, "How the hell is that even possible!?" But now that I know you just need to hover your pointer in the areas you want and use the keyboard for the timed inputs, it all makes sense now. I might just have to give this game a try, considering I have a Wacom just sitting here in front of me. God I dumb...😅
some people actually do play like this it's called tap x (you do need one of your keyboard keys to play like this though) there's a steeper learning curve compared to normal but some people do benefit a lot with it
some drag the pen across the tablet surface as well
that's thanks to the fact that you can disable mouse clicks in game during gameplay to prevent extra inputs
but yea you should definitely give the game a try! it's fun to play along music you like
@@tarragon112 I used to play like this, it's very nice to play with but playing dt or high cs is a challenge
I would like to try this, and i have a graphic tablet, but 1,i dont want to scratch it bc i use it for drawing xd (idk if its really bad for the tablet, but i want to avoid that, i dont want to waste my money xd) and 2, i have really ass coordination, like, i have to use the same and for everything, bc i cant time my two hands, only one at a time.
Have a good day.
@@ZEUSTHEGOD___ you can hover your pen above the tablet while playing to avoid scratching it
the guy was cooked from the start, he had garfield kart installed..
Oh no I am doomed
No need to be a hater...
A little confused, is Garfield Kart like Mario Kart but with Garfield? Or is it a program or something of the sort?
@JackTheripper911 just mario kart but garfield. Controls terribly though and the original didnt even have multiplayer functionality.
good luck beating me at Garfield Kart!
I can't understand how a game like this is played. It would give me a heart attack
Just watching it hurts my eyes
It's quite simple really. Click the circles..... to the beat!
*years of tracking and tapping practice later*
CIRCLES
one of the many games that look absolutely impossible at first but as you learn to understand patterns it becomes easier to comprehend
Yes I had to look away from the gameplay it was hurting my brain 😂
a certain guy almost had a heart attack after a good play (like almost 200bpm)
"2000 PP choke" 12:32. I am sure you had a chuckle in your mind saying that monotone lol
Nice
What have you done...
Its quite common to formulate it that way in the osu community, so it wouldn't really sound that funny to anyone familiar with the game
@@fewless06 🤓
When I started osu it was always funny seeing how common the phrases like, man I love pp or I’ve choked so much pp are but you get used to it lol
that person CANNOT be called "childfangirl"💀💀💀
That creeped me out as well. Worries me too, unless it means something else in translation from another language or something.
@@catsandcrafts171 It's a genshin reference... "Child" is the name of a character from the game.
Edit: this guess was totally false. Read comments below.
@@saurabhjadhav7656 His name is spelled “Childe” not “Child” isn’t it?
@@CocoRoxas yeah I realised that later too actually. Maybe they misspelled it? Who knows.
@@CocoRoxas someone else probably have that user name
"Your brain being not fast enough to read it" is a normal thing for osu! beginners. People call it "reading the map", and it's a skill players develop alongside their aim abilities and tapping hand stamina. It's super important, and it's normal to not have as novice.
Yeah the more hours you get the slower the game time seems to become, very weird how it works.
@@Long-Horse
The brain is amazing, its probably something that goes all the way back to when we were just animals, having us focus on fast prey to intercept it
@artsyscrub3226 but instead of the prey being a fast rabbit, it became a hitcircle 😂🤦🏻♂️ what a evolution.
Wr are still animals, bro @@artsyscrub3226
@@artsyscrub3226the brain is indeed incredibly interesting and powerful. The evolutionary traits that are ingrained into our brains from hundreds of thousands of years ago are still vital to our functioning (even if the specific reason for using that function has changed over the centuries)
This game gave me wrist pains in both hands. 💀
It makes me go higher on the spectrum just watching it be played
sometimes i get a Rank S in Thumper to feel like i have 1/8 of the skills speed runners have =(
@@actuallynotsteve 😂 "aw sh*t. My numbers are going up again."
This looks monstrous to play
imagen killen arms to win a cosmetiek rank xd
So THATS why literally all Osu players have the same LED keyboard
Wooting 60HE+ ftw
Not just for OSU, but for any FPS games
It’s a crazy good keyboard
Not just because of the hall effect switches but also the software and support by Wooting
wrong
wooting is pretty popular even outside osu
and other rapid trigger keypads like the sayodevice are used by GD players too
Yes but it's not because they all cheat and use that macro setting. They use it for the rapid trigger
Wirtual in Trackmania (racing game) got a warning for using custom analog curves (eg. 43% left steering on full press) using the wooting software. Trackmania Devs said it gave an unfair advantage. Cool keyboard though.
This made me feel old. I am old. But this really made me feel old. Glad that I switched over to TASs and finding enjoyment in solving the puzzles outside of my restricted physical performance. My wrists and fingers hurt just from watching this. Absolutely insane dexterity I wish that their hands will not hurt for a decade or more, and may the inevitable tendonitis only kick in like with my age past 40 or older.
Unfortunately a sizeable amount of the players end up developing various stages of RSI, one of them being Sytho, who Karl mentions as one of the sources for this video, who is currently ranked #8 in the game
Im about to turn 40 late this year and Ive been a pc gamer since the days of Doom on floppy discs. Luckily I havent had any issues from it yet but Im certainly not looking forward to it >.
Ah, so this is what that pink circle I see on r/place is about...
It is haha i didnt know that when i first saw it too, but now its my home.
xqc tried to take it down, but they're too big at this point
@@isuck6049 osu! players together stronk
@@isuck6049 xqc VS music weebs.
yeah thats a battle u cant win easily...
@@miciso666music weebs is crazy
14:28 In real time, the key stroke was held for 42ms. 63ms is the number that appears on the replays due to the double time multiplier set at x 1.5 in the game's internal clock. On Cloutiful's non doubletime replays the hold time is 42ms because the game's clock for normal speed is set to x1.
@sirmeowsalot9314Got 25x more likes, but who's counting 😂 Thank you for your time in finding my comment 🫡
Something not mentioned is that cloutiful was not just a top osu player. There’s a mod called relax that basically turns the game into an aim trainer, and on one particular server, he was rank 3 out of the users of the mod. Combined with the fact that he’s clearly able to tap these maps, and it’s fully possible that he could have made his way up the rankings through pure aim alone. Granted, it would be a lot harder considering that there’s only two aim player currently in the top 10, but it’s certainly doable
Assuming he didn't cheat those too.
@@NeroKoso fair point, but also remember that cloutiful spent a long time streaming with a handcam before he started using dks, and even in his current replay, people probably ran the usual tests to see if his cursor matched up with his tablet. So it’s highly likely that his aim is legit.
@@alacsonsmth of course I'm not saying all of them would be cheated.. But he could maybe still sneak few in that are cheated. I don't think his record scores were all streamed live. I just get suspicious about it.
@@NeroKoso I mean yeah of course, practically anyone can cheat some scores as long as they look realistic enough. That’s why its so important to have many scores proven legit so that there’s less of a case against you. But people usually cheat out of a mix of frustration and curiosity imo, and I think in cloutiful’s case it was probably frustration at not being able to stream with all the stream farm maps being ranked, and curiosity at how far he could go with this method
@@alacsonsmthwhat’s sad is he probably resorted to his strategy because he physically couldn’t match those on the top and likely would never had. Perhaps if we was built a bit different he could have been number 1 but alas biology denied him and instead of excelling at what he was good at he choose to take preverbal steroids and break rules.
That's honestly a very good intro to the basics of the game, done is such a streamlined way, well done!
Yeah, I watched this happen live. Crazy stuff.
Its true. Im the cheater and saw this guy staring into my soul.
Yeah lmao I was on his stream too when he was saying "I'm literally cheating" lmao. I actually thought he was legit (before all the accusations)
Fun fact!
The name originates from a very obscure Nintendo game called "Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan!" which was the original Osu! down to the mechanics and style
Released in the West with different songs as Elite Beat Agents.
isnt osu how gyaru greet people
I'm not sure you understand what obscure means
@@oedipamaas2067 To my limited understanding 'osu!' is a strange sort of exclamation sort of a "hell yes!" or a "yo!" depending on context, with a very masculine/assertive sort of connotation. Another example of its use in media is in the anime Hunter X Hunter, where it is used as a sort of energetic 'yes!' by a young martial arts student; sort of 'filled with determination' kind of exclamation of acknowledgement. All of this seems to fit in well with where it sits in the title of the Ouendan game, particularly as it is exclaimed at the start and end of every level. It's a very 'hype' sort of exclamation. :)
@@CNYKnifeNutObscure can also mean "not well known"
My first thought was, "this reminds me of the Ouendan game I loved that I had imported from Japan almost 20 years ago." And then after googling, holy crap it is inspired by that game! Why have I not heard about this until now?!
because Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan's an incredibly niche game, and at this point Osu!'s popularity is so high it drowns out what little popularity the original had on the internet
Yeah its from that game mate, peppy was inspired by it.
@@darkness74185 that's literally what he said, "i loved Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan, how have i not heard of osu!"
Ouendan 1 and 2 never released in the US but we did get Elite Beat Agents for the DS. I loved all 3 of those.
Welcome to osu!
So basically OSU is a Carpel Tunnel and Arthritis speedrun game
HAHAHAHAHAH get it because when you move your wrist around alot with a mouse it can cause wrist pains so funny hahahahahaha
only if you have poor form, but it’s pretty rare for the most part
...for weebs. So much anime/JPOP music.
For the record, I love Osu! so I'm joking. Mostly.
Yeah pretty much, gotta be careful if you're playing a lot.
@@Damaniel3 No but fr, I love JPOP/JROCK as much as any Osu player but I seriously wish we got more mainstream rock/pop beatmaps because they're some of the most fun to play when mapped right
Damn never thought i'd hear the words "2000PP choke" today
9:18 elite drummers call this "valving" --using alternating fingers to push the back of the stick "up" and thus, on the other side of the fulcrum, the front of the stick "down" into the head. The cool thing is, the stick rebounds from the drum, back into the starting position, so you only have to do the positive portion of the stroke. Alternating two fingers is, theoretically, twice as many strokes.
The rhythm game taiko uses this and has a different name
Do these drummers not realize that they're cheating???
@@puckerings it's a different game, it's allowed there
@@puckerings just exploiting the physics engine
Man its so much weirder when the Karl Jobst video is actually about a game you play, thank you for doing this topic justice!
What is lagtrain
@@Sadeness99song
@@Sadeness99 the best
Osu is such a gem of a game.
High quality community made beatmaps, good popular music, free to play. No pay2 win, no ads, no battle pass. Can play offline
😘
7:40 I was, sadly, not built to tap 😔
But he can juggle blindfolded 🙃
I was, sadly, not built to top
Yeah, me neither.
@@jiaan100😂
I got 200 clicks per second because my tester froze lol
The recurring theme. Genius players throw it all away looking for that extra edge as Karl said. Turning to the dark side. 2:40
Remember, good players don't cheat to get good times. They cheat to get good times faster.
...Or in this case, to rise up the ranks faster.
yeah he throws away all 10$ a month he probably made from like 7 years of effort 😂
The hardest E+ songs on Beat Saber are well beyond me, but I can at least comprehend them. This is just insane. It looks like something that Star Trek writers made for Data to show off his inhuman skills or something.
Lol this is like that game from Peak Performance, that's hilarious.
You can comprehend the hardest Beat Saber maps? I can't. Even just sticking to the official maps, I'm currently struggling to beat Light It Up, and at the hardest part of that one I cannot consciously follow what's going on at all, I basically have to turn my brain off and let my hands move on their own. My hands have not yet managed to get through it in a proper run, but they've gotten close.
@@elifia I can't even beat the fast maps like Camellia on Expert, much less E+. But I can see the blocks, they're just coming way too fast for my sad, pathetic reflexes to do anything about them. But it still seems like something humans might actually be able to do.
(The FOB pack is a fun one)
(And I've never tried modding. It just seems like a colossal pain.)
@@larryb5677 Sounds like you have the opposite problem of what I have then. When I mess up it's usually either because I failed to identify the colour/direction of a block correctly, or because my aim was off. And some songs have these sections where there's just a bunch of blocks really closely behind each other requiring you to basically move the sabers up and down to the rhythm instead of based on sight/reflexes, I *really* suck at those parts because I basically have no rhythm.
I don't have any of the DLC, I prefer to just get custom songs from mods. However, I have beaten all non-DLC maps on Expert, and on Expert+ the only ones I have not yet beaten are the Dragonforce one and all Camellia ones except Crystallized (Expert+ Crystallized was substantially easier than the other Expert+ Camellia ones for me).
I recall the Trackmania drama about using Action Keys. I don't recall whether you have have a video on that, so here's my rundown.
For the unfamiliar, the "strength" of your steering is important for all sorts of things, but unlike analog joysticks that allow you a range of different steering strengths, keyboard only has 100% or 0%. Nadeo introduced Action Keys that you could toggle to lock your steering to 20%, 40% etc.
What one player named Wirtual did was program custom action keys on his keyboard for a more customized input profile. There was a lot of back and forth whether this was okay, whether it would provide an unfair advantage to people who bought more expensive hardware, and so on. As I recall, his records using those action keys got removed, but given the previously ambiguous nature of the rules on the matter, he was not sanctioned further.
Why I bring it up is this: Wirtual, as far as I know, never denied it. He got a little squirmy when there was backlash, but I wouldn't hold that against him.
That is the critical difference to the cheater mentioned above, as you point out: Cloutiful immediately tried to deny it and cover it up. He knew he wasn't playing fair.
Further, Wirtual never hid the action key thing. He had previously talked about using his keyboard in this way publicly several times, and that's why he was surprised by the push back. It makes it very obvious cloutiful knew exactly what he was doing when you compare them.
Wirtual actually made a whole video on that situation and eventually set an even better author time on the map without the use of a wooting so props to him
I think osu was the first skill game i watched. Watching the top players is like trying to keep up with a computer doing advanced calculus in real time. You just started and its already on page 5
hardly skill based when you have to gave specific genetics to be able to tap faster than others to compete in top 100
@@thecolorgreen9022plasma is an aim player in the top 100 . Also with that logic basketball takes no skill because tall people have an advantage.
@@thecolorgreen9022don't try to get better at anything then, it all boils down to genetics LOL
@ImLazyfrfrnow that I'm 90k~ rank and can pass 8* aim maps and many techs I'm done with my skill grind, I can play any map I want to and I like how my time spent is now worth
@@thecolorgreen9022 Mrekk with aim exists? Also rank doesn't mean skill, mostly atleast, because some people just have fun and don't care about rank
Osu is the finest hyperfixation I’ve ever seen
Sorry? What’s Osu? I have no idea wh… Oh, you mean Osu!. Nah, I don’t think anyone is hyperfixated on it. Just SPELL. IT. RIGHT!!!
@@mikeydflyingtoaster ?????
That's funny because every once in a while I forget it exists lol.
@@mikeydflyingtoaster If you're gonna be pedantic, at least be correct. The O isn't capitalized.
@@mikeydflyingtoaster Get your autism under control
"you're either built to tap or not" is actually pretty accurate.
I was a top player years ago, reaching rank 250, becoming national champion and being world cup captain for my country twice, so its fair to say that I was tryharding quite a bit. I did all that with hardrock though. I literally could not do speed. If I was warmed up and did proper exercises I could for a bit play speedy stuff but it would usually just end up with me getting cramps in my hands or my fingers locking up.
You either have speed or you don't, no way to train it. (I obviously mean REALLY high leveL stuff here(
Alright grandpa
@@notyourdad9548 delete your comment
Even looking it on a smaller scale. I know people who just CAN'T do any mario party minigames that require rapid button tapping. The just suck. I'm not amazing but I can do it pretty well. Thing is I've never been able to get substantially better. I seem to always just be the same lol.
@@notyourdad9548 literally lol
@@william4996 Oh absolutely. That's why I always find it incredibly funny when people talk about "just play more" in this context, while they're just incredibly gifted at speed.
I remember seeing some 5 digits that were actual speed gods but lacked in every other department. While I was very good at everything OTHER than speed. :P
My cousin once participated in the Osu! world cup for the german team. Im nothing but baffled every time i see his skills. Even when he is just casually playing the game while we hang out its quite the show. He and many others have put in years of dedication to reach such a level. Like in every competition its great to see a cheater get caught and banned. What they do is nothing but disrespect for the people who play clean and honest, like it should be.
wait what was your cousin's user name? I might know him lol
does your cousin's osu name happen to be WhiteCat
He actually made a video on the topic, what an absolute legend.
Now B(T)MC will have yet another video to react to that's not from within the osu! community.
Never expected a Jobst Osu vid
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!
the best part is he found out he wasnt saying the name right but didnt have enough respect for this dumb shit to change it.
If there's a cheater Karl will be there to tell us about it.
I saw him say it on twitter
bro is a savage
(5:20) I remember a long time ago when someone controversially suggested using a pen, but now it's the standard. It's fun looking back at this stuff.
its been the standard for like 14 years already with people trying it since 2008 so when you say "long time ago" you must really mean it
The first time I played Osu! was in 2015 (though only briefly; I just picked it up again recently), and tablet was still the main way to play even then.
@@hippoheidinl yes I do really mean a long time ago
@@Liggliluff Lesjuh was the first one to popularize Tablet waaaaaay back then and you're right it was briefly controversial
@@delk1299 it might have been within a certain community I was getting this from that might have been reluctant to use tablet
The thing I'm getting from this sounds like that keyboard would be incredible for extremely fast typists, not just rhythm gamers.
absolutely. the technology in this keyboard is absolutely cutting edge, and several of its unique features totally *are* allowed ingame as they dont violate any rules, and have totally pushed the bounds of whats possible in this game in a legal sense
and i thought cheating in guitar hero was weird
It is to me but that is why I watch these videos. It's interesting to me how far some people will go to get the number 1 spot through illegitimate means. These people have to be smart enough to know that their footage is going to face heavy scrutiny whether or not the footage is legit. Yet they still do it 😂
@@secondghost incredibly accurate response. definitely enjoy the "ingenuity" of some of these cheaters trying to get away with it and getting called out
Guitar hero cheating is essentially a dinosaur compared to osu. The methods used in GH were things people did 10 years ago in osu.
@@wizardsmix7961 Yeah osu replay hacks can be pretty crazy, dont see why you would bother tho, the game is all about individual skill your only cheating yourself if you do, like cheating at solitaire, kind of sad.
@@wizardsmix7961doesn’t make it any less odd and weird
This kind of reminds me of the whole SpaceUK situation with Geometry Dash, where he was a genuinely skilled and talented player, almost beating one of the hardest levels of the time as his 3rd(?) level of that difficulty category but unknowingly turning on cheats right at the end. He was such a good player at the time and the run was so accurate that he wasn’t under any suspicion, and from there it basically spiraled, with him hacking every level after that, just to see how long he could go without being caught
Same
Please rewatch Karl's video again.
The level was indeed extremely hard, but it was one of the easiest of that difficulty category (I believe it was somewhere around number 80 on the leaderboard. Not an easy achievement by any means, but pretty far from the highest level of play).
Also it wasn't accidental. He got 96% and lost, so out of frustration he used a TAS to finish. From then on absolutely every single achievement of his was cheated. Including stealing a few first clears of extremely hard levels.
@@bluestorm749 First of all, it was on The Golden, which I’m pretty sure at the time was well within the top 10. Second, towards the end he accidentally hit a keybind that turned on noclip, and he himself along with the rest of the community believed that it was a legitimate completion because of how close SpaceUK was to actually dying, which would have happened twice had he not turned on noclip.
@@bluestorm749spaceuk went from decode, to an insane demon, to a top 50 to a top 8. That is insanely fast and in a stupid amount of time.
At the time top 50 and top 8*
"before the consequences really matter" -Looks at Billy
"one day after his 2000pp choke" 12:30 :p
As someone who has played osu since 2017 as well, you described the nuances of the game extremely well!
I think a point that is important to make is that rapid trigger technology (the setting the Wooting is most famous for) is still fairly recent in the scope of the game’s history. A reason cloutiful slipped under the radar is that we have seen players make incredible leaps in speed ability directly resulting from access to this technology. Players like Accolibed, Lifeline, and even mrekk to an extent were aim focused prodigies that adapted to speed with the help of rapid trigger. It’s awesome and scary how much people are improving now, so cloutiful’s skill progression didn’t seem too farfetched until the Snow Goose incident.
Great vid you absolute legend!
but as I am not aware of the game, why is this considered cheating? Isnt it just another technique? Like using a pen?
Instead of actually alternating fingers he's doubletapping and it registeres as alternating with the dks stuff which is clearly cheating@@tangente00
@@tangente00 Cloutiful was just spam tapping two keys at once which takes away the rhythm part of the game. Using a pen still involved a lot of skill for aiming.
@@tangente00so the difference is that the macro Cloutiful was using to suddenly rush the ranks of speed essentially made 1 press into 2: 1 on press and 1 on release, which means a 40 click sequence would only need 20 keypresses and effectively half the effort you need to achieve the equivalent of other speed pros even with rapid trigger and a tablet. Rapid trigger and a tablet makes it less fatigue inducing but you still have a 1:1 keypress to game input ratio and 40 clicks on the game will still need 40 keypresses. Cloutiful's macro trivialises a core skill of Osu, which is cheating. Aiming with a tablet and pen still requires accuracy and Wooting's rapid trigger still requires proper inputs unlike the macro he used
All I can think of when watching these players is that they are speed-running the onset of carpal tunnel and arthritis.
That is a false rumor made up to put down video games, think of a guitarist or any musician like that, you hold your hand in much more difficult positions and do much harsher things to your fingers and hands than tapping fast on a keyboard, i have played guitar for over 15 years now and osu for over 3 and my hands are stronger and more precise than ever before, it can cause pain and issues if you are dumb and juts push past a pain barrier which would be the same for anything, a map on average lasts about 3-4 mins long and you can take as long as a break between every map you like, it is the individuals fault if they get RSI or carpal tunnel from any from of gaming or osu or music in general you have to be rather stupid in my opinion
@@Long-Horse "Playing the guitar requires rapid movement of all fingers for an extended period of time. This produces one of the most common “overuse” musculoskeletal disorders today, called carpal tunnel syndrome. Anybody who uses their hand for rapid and repetitive activities is at high risk for getting this painful condition."
@randomdeliveryguy yeah but you can feel the pain building up, and this is when you take a break, if you persist through the pain then of course you can cause damage, it's like saying the gym causes damage to your body, it's inherently wrong but if you go to the gym and do 2000 squads with no break your gonna hurt yourself.
@@Long-Horse Depends, sometimes when the pain comes it's too late. It's not as easy as that, even tho I understand a lot of cases could be prevented if people actually heard more their bodies screaming for help.
I know someone who has it and he didn't really start feeling anything until it was too late.
@randomdeliveryguy yeah I can see that with a few people, but most people should know there limits and if you don't you should learn them really.
"I AM CHEATING I AM LITERALLY CHEATING" almost collapsed in a parking lot laughing to myself at that.
This is like the best researched information about a topic in osu! I've ever seen. Of course me and other osu!players understand most of this easier than non-osu!players. But still this was explained so well and on point.
Death metal drummers use a finger technique sometimes to bounce the stick very quickly off the drum, maybe that can be used in this game.
It kind of is, you cant exactly start pushing your keys upward on a keyboard to decrease the amount of time it takes to start pressing down again but people do wiggle their hand to increase the speed that their fingers are moving.
@@zZSleepytimeZz yes u can.... keyboards exist now with keycaps that can trigger on PRESS and or RELEASE
same technology used in the ps2 controller. yes thats painfull. a PS2 controller had this tech and yet sony ditched it.
@@miciso666 what you just said is literally what this video is about, pressing a button being 2 actions instead of 1 is considered cheating.
Relating having a secondary action for a key when released to drumming is like imagining when a drummer lifts his stick he hits another drum that was above, its nowhere near the same thing i or the original comment described.
I think something like that is used in taiko
That skill is reserved for taiko my friend
Karl! I hope everything is good with you. Best of luck with the incoming B$ trial!
thats true! he said its a bs trial so it is! man lol @ him if he loses it tho. like fr all that shit talk if the clown gamer gets the W on him its joever
@@itchiegamesimagine still simping for Billy after his embarrassing deposition.
@@itchiegamesYour grammar hurts my eyes.
@@superanimeniac Imagine simping for Billy after listening to him talk for more than 15 seconds. He talks like he discovered penicillin, and single handedly won the cold war, all by making a giant pixellated monkey fall down.
@@itchiegames You hate him cuz you anus
In the fighting game community, we call button presses that register on release negative edge. Negative edge can help with hitting your combos consistently.
I will say that Osu! is a game that has a nice visual design, but goddamn, I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it is to develop top-level skills for it. Just watching that really floors me to see people blitz through with such precision when I can barely even follow it with my eyes alone.
That said, glad that the community has such attentive members smoking out less-than-honest persons. Cheating is never worth it.
Personally I like the keyboard/piano mode, osu!mania a lot better. Easier in some ways, harder in others.
I have been playing the game for 3 years and spent around 200 hours of playtime (not counting being in the menu or having the game in the background, just gameplay) and I am still rank 400k. You can get good at the game without being cut out for clicking circles, but some people just don't have the genetics to play this game like me haha.
@@UguuUng 200 hours in 3 years is not a lot of time tbf, it is a very demanding game the harder the content gets
I play another rhythm game, sort of like guitar hero but a little different. I remember when I first started the game I was AWFUL, and thought "how the hell do people even play this?!" as it was so fast and my brain couldn't keep up. I decided to keep playing and now the fastest parts feel slow. I totally get how this would apply with Osu but like... Top level play is INSANE in this game
What I find interesting about the visual design is that the new client, osu!(lazer) is also an open-source project, meaning it's probably the only open-source game that's actually being played.
The segment demonstrating a top Aim and top Speed player gave me goosebumps. Insane skill!!
Funniest thing of all is that those clips are just two players who are good in *their* respective skillsets. There are also very few players who manage to combine both of these, and it looks at least 5x more impressive than both of these combined. Best example would be anything from the current #1 Global "mrekk", he's widely regarded as the best player ever, and that not just because of the fact that he's Rank 1, but also just because of how far ahead he is mechanically compared to anyone else.
@@tayuno rank 2 now rip
@@AdenPereira-yz4yc come again?
@@AdenPereira-yz4yc come again?
@@5treeX what nihh
"I'm just not a hands on kind of guy"
>Plays guitar
>Tries every game he covers to learn how it works
>Plays piano
>Video edits
Karl selling himself MAD short.
2:10
I would not even have batted an eye, AI-powered noise cancellation like Krisp and RTX Noise (part of Nvidia Broadcast App now) do a ridiculously good job of removing any keyboard noise.
Always love how you deep dive into these communities/games that are new to you and explain it to the viewers so they can understand the whole context of the topic correctly
7:02 - I didn't expect to hear Eric Saade's song "Popular" from Eurovision Song Contest 2011.
@sirmeowsalot9314 hate that song... mostly because of the controversy surrounding the live performance at ESC 2011 with additional rehearsals and all that stuff...
Same
same, my interests unexpectedly colliding is always fun tho
STOP DON'T SAY THAT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE CAUSE I KNOW IT'S POSSIBLE🗣️🔥
@@boopdino8053 Don't remind me...
Nice to see Karl interacting with the osu! community! Glad you covered this whole situation
I can see a touch keyboard being a possibly better choice as the reduced movement distance can increase potential tapping pace.
Still looks like carpal tunnel, arthritis, and tendinitis rolled into one.
It's genuinely the first time I've heard someone actually explaining what aim vs speed specialisations are. Thank you.
If he didn't think it was cheating he shouldve immediately put up a post with something like "alternate keyboard settings for non-speed players" or whatever. And then there could have been a debate whether or not it's allowed. The issue is not the action in and of itself, it's the sneakiness surrounding it.
DKS has been banned as soon as it was publicly released
edit: nvm it was the rappy snappy feature not DKS, I got confused. But it's basically the same as DKS setting cloutiful used
I agree, there is at least SOME amount of grey-area around the software he used. But, once he made attempts to conceal the truth, he threw any benefit of the doubt out the window. If he was honest, the worst case scenario would probably just be him having to switch settings (and at best, maybe even being allowed to keep using it!)
exactly ! some people suggested it could’ve been a separate sub category… that would have been a much less tragic outcome
osu is not a speedrunning game. there are no categories and global leaderboards are shared by every playstyle, doesn't matter what you use: mouse or tablet, touchscreen, keyboards or foot pedals or even beer cans, someone made that work. it's all the same.
the rapid trigger function of a wooting keyboard is allowed because it's still the same input method as normal keyboard, it's just more accurately tracking your keystrokes. it's mostly about lowered actuation point on the switches making it possible to tap without fully bottoming out the key, which helps greatly with speed and stamina. you still need play a game as usual and have good techique for this to be effective.
cloutiful used a dynamic keystroke option to modify his inputs to gain competitive advantage. it made double tapping, the most rudimentary way of cheesing the patterns, work as if he was actually putting in the effort to tap properly. this was achieved by modifying how the keystroke gets registered, making it functionally a macro, which is strictly prohibited in the game rules.
there is no chance at all that it could have been allowed if he was straight forwards about it and he knew it, that's why he hid it.
@@Iokser Well technically, there is actually a separate leaderboard for touchscreen players lol. Though I agree I'm 99.9% sure they wouldn't do that for something like this.
And here I am, enjoying Mine Sweeper
That's too high pressure for me, I'm a Minecraft granny :D
my man
This is a game I legitimately have no clue how people play. I genuinely cannot understand or wrap my head around someone playing this game physically because it looks so ridiculously difficult. I'm being serious when I say I cannot understand this. I seriously cannot conceptualize or put it into any sorta frame of reference in which my brain can comprehend how to play this game much less how someone plays it at such an exceedingly high level and speed. It looks like some made up game on a 90s crime show that is an episode about some video gamer who had a heart attack from playing a game too fast or some bullshit like that honestly. It doesn't look real to me.
I just...don't understand how it's possible.
i've been playing this game for 8 years and yeah i still can't wrap my head around how the top players even back then can do all that shit
I play osu quite abit and this game LOOKS insane at first it did to me aswell but as u keep playing you develop a type of "Muscle memory" where even if sometimes u dont know whats going on your hands will automatically click the circles...In Osu when ur fully locked in you go into a "3rd person" typa view where ur eyes are looking at the entire screen and not at a single point and you automatically play...Osu is more about your 6th sense than people often realize ofc u can brute force everything through sheer skill but at some point u do reach a level where u cant understand whats going on and thats when its just up to your body.
12:31 "2000 PP choke" sounds like a film I've seen before
smoll pp lives matter 😢
Great video but one particular thing for non osu! players to emphasize the difficulty of streaming high speeds is that it does require a significant amount of tension and in some sense is similar to jitter tapping but the difference is that if you just hold your fingers and jitter click you will be doing what is known as double tapping which is what cloutiful was doing with the use of DKS to make the inputs register as alternating skilled stream players like Ivaxa vibrate their hands with tension but in such a way where their inputs are alternating and they can perfectly control the speed of the vibration of the muscles which requires countless hours of practice and months or even years of building up the muscles required to do this especially for an extended period.
I appreciate the distance youve gone to understanding and exploring this games mechanics and culture for this video, very cool
hey vro 🗣
5:35 *hardrock doesn't just make the circles smaller, but also increases the AR(approach rate) of the circles, so your window of error is even lower
Damn I need a big cheating scandal to hit my Music Rhythm game so Karl can cover it.
wondering when a cheating scandal will hit theatrhythm final fantasy
I wouldn't really call it a rhythm game, it doesn't follow a beat or anything
@@cuddlecakes7153 osu?
@@cuddlecakes7153 bait or…
@@CVireq_ I kind of see why he said it. As an Osu player for over 6 years now, you barely follow the beat of the song and just look at the circle and click it by muscle memory, especially stream maps. Osu!Standard is more of an aim game rather than a Rhythm game itself.
Sad that it seems I'm watching more "Speedrun Cheater Caught" videos than "Speedrun New PB/WR" videos lately.
But I guess it does makes sense, as there's still a good number of uncaught ones out there. Great video as always!
i never thought one of my favorite video essay creators would cover my favorite game... absolute legend
karl is talking about this cheater like he's vegeta who just came out the time chamber lmao
good stuff as always
The tensing for jitter presses in games was something I did often as a teenager. Probably why my hand is fucked these days. As a 31 year old I can still do it if I accept that my wrist will sting for the rest of the day.
I'm amazed these guys can do that day after day, but they probably take better care to avoid issues.
Difference between a 95 and a 100 % play in osu can be like doubling the performance points making jitter tapping actually mostly useless in osu as it isnt controlled, people only use it to play things outside of their skill range. Most people will be fine in osu if they stop playing the moment it hurts(alotta people still cant manage that)
It's so crazy to me seeing an osu! video on a channel this massive, and one that I watch actively no less
Massive props to you for covering this story!!
Did not know that I would see the day that I would get an Osu video from Karl
I know the subject of this video is the cheater but the real star is the sheer amazing gameplay. I mean the twitch skills on display here are inhuman! Jitter style? 15 taps/sec? Keep entire arm tensed? Look at the skill needed to aim in this game. Madness and so cool. Excellent video as always!
Having bursts of improvements is common, even if they appear further apart, it's how I got into 4 digits with mostly No Mod. Nothing compared to the top players, but I was cautious at first when the stories first arise. Thanks for the video!
omg hi
Never played osu! but I play others and this is true.
Also some days I feel like u can just be absolutely insane and the next ur missing easy notes lol
Why is what he did considered cheating?
@@snared_it's much easier to spam both keys at once than alternating the key presses at the same speed of inputs.
Usually, when you press two keys at the same time the way the cheater did, your accuracy gets so bad to the point that your score is now worth much less pp.
The cheater was able to spam both keys down at the same time without losing accuracy by binding one key to press when it's being lifted up instead of pressed down. This made the keys alternate presses even though he was pressing them at the same time.
If he hadn't done this, his scores would be valued much lower and he may not have even been in the top 30.
osu! also has a general rule that one input must equal one action, but the cheater's inputs (on one key only) had two:
1. Send a press input
2. Release the press input a set amount of time later
Though this general rule wouldn't have been applicable if the input was stopped when he lifted the key entirely instead of deactivation after a set amount of time (it would probably still be considered cheating though)
This was definitely one of the more nuanced cheating scenarios. If you want a more obvious cheating scenario I recommend looking up fia (intricate and consistent cheating and multiaccounting for like 10 years).
@@snared_ Did you even watch the video? The keyboard setting modification literally gave him twice the tapping speed...
The streaming technique is insanity. I’ve been a guitar player for about 20 yrs or so, literally these speed runners are practicing insane finger trills for extended periods of time. Absolutely bonkers what people can do.
i play both guitar for 15 years and osu for 3 years and trust me when i say this osu is not even comparable with the amount of skill needed for the guitar, the bar of entry for guitar is beyond what high level osu is, the game is very skillful don't get me wrong but, that 20 years of guitar is not even scratching the surface of the instrument, where as if you put 20 years in osu you would be a top player without a doubt, i hope you get what i mean haha.
@@Long-Horsehe meant guitar player so he was referencing the game guitar hero not the actual instrument
Considering all of those speed songs are in 4/4 I'm yet to see anyone really challenged there.
@@BrunodeSouzaLinoin streams you play 4 hit circles a beat so they are considered 1/4ths in game (actually 1/16ths in music language) The fastest bpm speed players are consistent on is 330 bpm which is 1320 circles clicked per minute or 22 circles clicked in a second. Tho there’s a player named ivaxa who’s pushing 375 bpm so about 25 circles clicked in a second .he and another player known as zestiny have scratched the surface of 400 bpm(27 circles tapped per second)
@@Long-Horseyeah definitely skill wise the finger dexterity needed for guitar is another level
I used to love this game way back then and once in a while saw his name pop up with a great play. This is actually sad.
Only Karl can make me want to watch a 20 minute video about a cheater in a game I've never heard of.
12:33
I'm such a child for laughing at this.
@@brian8507 he won't
Bruv become a welder you will be like a child xd
@@brian8507go away billy
@@brian8507 doing a 10min survey of "Am I a Lawyer?" on BuzzFeed doesn't count.
@@brian8507 Low tier bait; can't have a license to practice law from your mothers basement.
I never understood why people try to cheat in these big communities. Way too many eyes on you to keep the lie up forever...
I understand why someone would feel the need to cheat (although I don't think it's acceptable), but just eat crow when you get called on it. It's the deceitful double downs that always make a bad situation worse.
Yeah I find the behavior patterns in damage control to really show off the psychology that is one layer below the controlled performance of no-stake interactions.
The Deceit mentioned
It's always better to be honest about it when it's questionable. This isn't obviously cheating, as referenced by wooting's original xcretion.
The only time i get cheating is if its for survival, you gotta be really soft and perthitic to want to cheat at a game or competition, get help if you think that's ok.
Like, what do they think is gonna happen? They'll say "nuh uh" and the accusers will disappear into thin air?
I will have a fantastic day because of this amazing video this morning. Thank you very much. I love these kinds of stories where not only are interesting cases shown, but details are explained in a way that allows me to learn something new.
Great video as per usual! I used to play osu liek 10 years ago and it was a bit of a nostalgia trip to watch this as well :)
btw a video suggestion: CS2 Surfing and KZ (community made game modes). Valve is slowly killing these communities and it would be worth to shine a light on the situation. It's a bit too complicated to put in a comment but there are plenty of surfers and kzers that would surely love to help out.
I was not prepared to see a video of the game I've been playing well over 10 years. Wow.
I've never heard of this Osu, but it looks like Elite Beat Agents, only without any graphics.
@@lunchZAIt was the inspiration
I'm not familiar with Elite Beat Agents, but I was thinking that it looked like a much more chaotic version of Final Fantasy's Theatrhythm Final Bar Line without the graphics (and of course the awesome Final Fantasy music).
Elite Beat Agents is a spiritual sequel to the original version of Osu on the DS (Osu! Tatakae! Ouendan).
The PC game osu! in this video is inspired by those games, but technically the original Osu came out before Elite Beat Agents.
karl jobster the lobster covering one of my fave games?? is this heaven or am i just dreaming?
"One day after his 2000 pp choke ..."
please never change Karl
It's a real term in the community tho 💀
osu players always abbreviate everything for easier communication, so we do indeed call it "pp". nobody ever says "performance points", but this isn't the only example, as we also call the modifications by their abbreviations for example. "doubletime" turns into "dt", "hard rock" into "hr", "hidden" into "hd" and so on. we even abbreviate the standard gameplay of not using anything down to "nm" for "no modifications"
so this isn't even a karl thing, but rather an osu thing. osu players say the funny word daily.
I dont think anyone says hd,we just call it hidden @@tayuno
@@NatureAngel-z2iIt's still abbreviated in text discussions and the mod menu of a lot of skins though.
eh it depends tbh
Small correction at 6:04.
The game considers all plays ever made by the player, not just the top 100. However, because of the weighting their impact significantly drops.
not true, they're weighted 0 you just get bonus playcount pp from them up to a certain point
@@r_seWhat do u mean by "playcount pp"? They aren't weighted 0, they just round down to 0
Wrong. The game only considers your top 100 plays. The real reason why you gain/lose a very minimalistic amount of ranks with plays that wouldn't end up in your Top 100 however, is because of a thing called "Bonus PP". Basically, the more you play, the more PP you can get. It used to go all the way up to 416.6 Bonus PP, which is what you would've gotten after 25.397 different plays. But 4 months ago, this number was changed, and now you'll get the 416.6 Bonus PP after just 1000 plays. But more than that will never be given. You will forever only get a max amount of 416.6 Bonus PP, and if anything, it'd only increase by going to 416.66, 416.666, 416.6666 etc.
That's why people always gain/lose ranks after every play. That, and also because they're obviously *not* the only person playing the game.
But in terms of raw weighting, osu only takes your top 100. Everything below the top 100 is weighted as 0%, giving you a grand total of, surprise, 0 PP.
@@tayuno @r_se Where did you guys learn that from? Kinda curious since it's a pretty common misconception that only your top 100 plays count towards your total pp.
@@ssz7 it's pp*0.95^n (n is the place in your top plays, counted from 0) so 0.95^100 is pretty much nonexistent
I've honestly been curious if you would ever cover osu! since it's had a litany of cheaters and stuff lol! So it's fun to see a video on it.
It seems like a lot of people get tired of being great but not great “enough”
It's probably the temptation that is hard to avoid if you're okay but not peak/top of the ranks, and once you're in that mindset and mentality, you're not aiming to cheat, you're aiming to do the best.
The problem with skill games is, you can't get better easily. Biology kicks in, Carpal Tunnel, Age, Nerve/compression damage, sic. You slow down, need more recovery time, et al. So there's a need to peak. To hit a good rank, and then retire.
Multiply that by every player wanting rank play.
But, temptation is always around the corner.
Competition breeds inadequacy, and this is the true test of character.
Are you the person that changes, or does the competition change you to pull down other people so there's room to grow. Do you start banding together, or pulling people down to get ahead. Do you gather people who are weaker so you feel stronger despite the lack of progression, etc. When you start comparing yourself to others, becoming elitist or changing your perspective on others, etc.
Hence the community starts to pull apart others to find their 'magic', in order to gain something from them.
Long-term Competition drives people to make irrational moves to advance, the problem being one of crabs-in-a-bucket.
Once one person gets a lead up, the others drag them back in because they also want to escape their current position and replace the other person. The wooting keyboard was likely the temptation that drove people to make choices they wouldn't have thought about.