M class - Guide 396
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- The M class submarines, monitors/minelayers/underwater aircraft carriers of the British Royal Navy, are today's subject.
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Pinned post for Q&A :)
given the tendency of surface raiders to meet rather untimely end in WW1/WW2 while presenting relatively less disruption to merchant shipping (in tonnage) than things like submarines, how would you design and use surface ships in this role to improve their effectiveness and/or survivability?
or is it the fate of surface raiders to be more useful at tying down enemy resources than actually raiding commerce?
Alt history: Indefatigable gets sent to the Battle of the Falklands Islands and is sunk. Assuming that von Spee is still defeated without being able to return to Germany, how would this affect British naval thinking?
Will you ever go to Bermuda, lots of shore emplacements, big guns including 9.2 inch in good condition and even a sunken floating drydock?
just like in the case of the germans with their type vii u boat and the americans gato submarines, what would you say is the most common type of british submarine in ww2, one that makes you say: this is the signature british sub of ww2.
Suppose you're an able sailor on a WWI or WWII battleship. The ship is out of port, sailing to her destination, but no General quarters are given. Now, you have your post inside the ship, your bunk, your mess, your head etc. (Damage control post too). Now, since battleships ought to have no ports in the hull, how much chance would you have to see the Sun and/or take a breath of fresh air?
I'm just imagining a couple of British engineers drunk at a pub " Oi m8, what if we just mount a battleship gun on a submarine"
It's drinking like that, that gave England all of its best Inventions.
Then there's Brunel for the rest.
Which brings to mind my newest favorite German phrase (replacing "keine Ahnung", though still extremely useful): "Schnapps Idee", which means exactly as it sounds, when you're in the pub powering down Schnapps with your best mates, and come up with an absolutely enchanting idea.
@@seb-fluffysnowcap9530Isambard *Kingdom* Brunel. Don’t forget the *Kingdom* 😂
Some of the best ideas on earth came from the pub
@@F-Man Well yes the kingdom in United Kingdom does come from Isambard Kingdom Brunel
02:11 "Some people think they can outsmart me. Maybe. * sniff * Maybe. I have yet to meet one that can outsmart bullet." - The Heavy
Cry some more...
“Ha-ha, that slaps me on the knee!”
I don't recognize the reference, please help?
@@inyobillTeam Fortress 2.
Maggot.
@@inyobill It is from the "Meet The Team" series of videos that Valve made for the game Team Fortress 2. This particular quote is from "Meet The Heavy".
Honestly the point blank heavy artillery idea has merit in a time where underwater detection is still in its infancy. Imagine being particularly daring and surfacing off the bow of a battleship and putting a 12 inch shell right into the bridge as a opening shot.
And it would be mandatory for the Crew to all yell "SURPRISE!!!" in unison as they fire
I agree. For a very short period in history and technology it isn't a completely stupid idea to have a big gun on a submarine.
That is particularly the intended case as these ships could fire their gun while mostly underwater in a manoeuvre called a "dip chick". The most important part that had to be above water being the end of the barrel. The operational problem being that there would be an occasional leak in the "water proof" cover of the barrel. If there was water in the barrel, between the shell and the muzzle, firing the gun blew off the muzzle!
@@weldonwin "Con to Hydrophone. Did you hear that sub?"
"Hydrophone to Con. No sir, I heard nothing until all of a sudden I heard... 'Surprise!'".
Imagine the gun is trained port. The gun is fired. The sub rolls to starboard and floods.
Fun fact. I served in the RN from 1972 until 1994 and my early days were as a sonar operator. M2 was frequently used as a sonar target for training when at Portland by all ships doing workup. Echo sounder runs would show the distinct outline of the vessel. M1 was also used but less frequently as she was nearer to Start Point and to the West of the Portland exercise areas.
I have a question: have any of you ever thought about the fact that those two subs still have all their crew on board?
@@sandrocerutti8161 Yes they are both war graves. Active sonar doesn't affect this.
@@sandrocerutti8161 What you just said, is like a couch-coach saying "Hey, you footballers, have you even considered that the ball is *round* , huh, huh, have you, huh?!"
@@michaelkarnerfors9545 no, something more similar to "I'm in a modern sub, and in my sonar I see two old sunk subs of my country, full of their dead crews, and maybe in the future I could end like them", but maybe these thought don't cross the minds of active servicemen... just curious.
@@sandrocerutti8161 You are still doing the couch-coach thing. Really, sub people are _very_ aware of how bad things can go. They are drilled, over and over, on how to react when their boat is doomed. And they know - damned well - that escape is not guaranteed. While people like you and I can watch documentaries on Titan, Kursk, Thresher, Scorpion, nicely detached in our safe living-rooms, these guys watch these documentaries knowing full well they could be the next episode.
It’s honestly terrifying that so many submarine’s stories end with the words “Something went wrong.”
When the whole of human history has ship design built around NOT sinking, then in the last couple of centuries man became hubristic enough to start intentionally making boats that are designed to sink, you are going have a great many stories where they do that part far too successfully.
And “something went wrong” means they don’t even know what it was to try to prevent the same mistake in the future
And yet sailors were still willing to operate them.
Great video Drach. It's depressing how many of the early subs you cover where you say something along the lines of 'Unfortunately, something went wrong with something, and she was lost with all hands.' Those men had amazing courage.
In 1923 the 12" gun on M1 had its muzzle blown off during firing trials near Gibraltar, due to water leaking into the barrel while submerged. The muzzle remained attached to the rest of the gun by the wire winding, which unwound as the muzzle sank to the seabed, leaving the submarine anchored by its own gun.
wow, especially on this channel sometimes the comments are better than the video. this is one of those stories that's too crazy for someone to make up 😅
In it's whole, this tale reeks of "this really wasn't how it went, but it sure does sound good"
Intriguing. I take it the wire winding was part of the construction of the barrel?
The seas around Gib are littered with maritime archaeological artefacts.
@@hekatoncheiros208 Look up the videos Drach did fairly recently on gun manufacturing. Many guns had cores made of wire windings instead of solid metal.
@@Djof Yes, I just found out a bit more about it. I had no idea. Thank you b
So uhhh, putting this out there in case anybody wants to know about it, but I love talking about one of my favourite wrecks!
The M2 is probably one of the most famous shipwrecks on the English South Coast. Shes at a depth of about 30-35m to seabed, but shes not in her original resting place. This is due to the works of a man named Ernest Cox (of Cox and Danks). This man is both the greatest thing to ever happen to marine salvage (he raised roughly 30 of the High Seas fleet wrecks in Scapa Flow, pioneering methods that are now the forefront of modern salvage), and also the worst person to ever happen to recreational diving (see the previous statement.)
After a week of searching for the wreck, the royal navy tried unsuccessfully to raise her, and then called in the technical expertise of Cox to bring the wreck back to the surface. He went about it in his typical style - first welding big holes shut (IE all hatch covers etc). Where he thought he would get problems, he instructed divers to place specially designed tampions - some of which are still semi intact if you know where to look. Then he pumped enough air to make her buoyant and she would shoot to the surface... the hatches would blow open and she would sink again. This happened twice. I assume he felt he was running into another Hindenburg situation (she had breached and sank numerous times, and eventually lead him to quit scapa flow ops), he reverted to his old option; tidal lifting. Using two salvage barges, cables were lowered underneath the wreck, and then pulled taught at low tide. As the tide came up, so did the wreck, and then they would be able to winch in (the suction of the seabed being broken). Things were going well, and after several days of slow winching, she was resting just 6m from the surface in her cradles.
And then the local weather system that exists around Portland did its thing. A gale seemingly blew up from nowhere, and in the increasing swell, the decision was made to cut her loose, allowing her to sink for a 4th and final time. Settling into silt, she became effectively vacuumed into place, and on top of that Cox was running out of money - his divers had spent the best part of a year on site, with over 1500 dives onto the one wreck, and he needed to get other salvage operations underway to make some profit. And so she was left to rest quietly (other than visits from divers).
Nowadays, as I said, she is one of the most famous diving attractions on the South Coast. She is one of the most intact submarines out there - she's completely together, and whilst the deck is finally starting to fall apart, the only thing that has gone from the wreck since the salvage efforts is the gibbet for lifting the Parnall Peto seaplane back onto the deck - this fell off in the mid 2010s). I've always said that she looks as if she is still in service - just waiting quietly for her prey. The conning tower is magnificent - still there in full regalia. most of the instruments are still there, covered by nearly over 80 years of rust and biological growth, but still there. Her clipped stalks of her periscopes still stand tall. You can still enter the hangar and see where the seaplane once would have been stored, and follow the hydraulic catapult along the foredeck, all the way past her forward dive planes, anchors and to the 6 rather imposing 18in torpedo tubes (I never realised how big an 18in torpedo was until I looked at the closed hatches for them!). Going back, you go past the retracted 3in deck cannon (admittedly it takes a twisted mind to work out how it would come together), all the way back to the rear dive planes, the propeller stalks (the props were removed during salvage efforts), and to the skeletal remains of the rudder. She is one of the prettiest wrecks on the south coast, and because of her story, one of the most haunting in my opinion. Conditions often make it quite a spooky wreck - I've never been on it on a nice sunny, well lit day, only ever dark days, and it really feels like you are surrounded by the unfortunate 58 men who take their rest upon her. If anyones interested, I can talk for days about this wreck, with pictures in the discord or something :) (Might as well put the nearly two hundred hours I have on that wreck to good use!)
Sorry for the hijack, Drach!!
Also thanks for the bit about the WNT - it grinds gears when people say the M2 and M3 were repurposed because of them!
Thank YOU for this bit of history about M2 post-loss. It seems M-2 and her crew won their fight against Mr. Cox, asking only to be left in peace though apparently not minding showing off their boat as sailors often will.
Very interesting, thank you! I hope your "hijacking" is forgiven.
The real measure of the success of a channel is the quality of contributions made by it's followers. Thank you for this one, I quite enjoyed it.
Great post, thanks for sharing that info. Very interesting.
@@robertf3479 I love this view on the subject, I'd never thought of it like that!
Making the K class look sane by comparison
RN submarine designers were on something big time during WW1
And then the French made the Sercouf after the war
@@weldonwin Did they ever find that thing after it sank? It was a monster for sure!
@RogueWraith909 I do believe so, relatively recently iirc. I remembered wrong, she has not been found
@@RogueWraith909 At the time of Drach making his video on it, the Sercouf was still undiscovered
@@weldonwin it's lurking in this comment section with longing eyes
I see the M class as naval equivalents of the multi-turreted heavy tanks from the Twenties and Thirties. An intriguing idea that had to be tried out to expose why it was not a good idea.
But then they modified M2 to carry and launch floatplanes, an idea that the Japanese looked at and built a class of large submarines around, the I-400s, boats that were somewhat successful with none lost in combat to my knowledge.
@@robertf3479 Sorry, but the I-400s only survived because they were completed so late the war ended before the US Navy could sink them. The whole concept of a submarine aircraft carrier was misconceived from the first, aircraft facilities made subs unwieldy and vulnerable and their aircraft not only proved useless they revealed the sub's position to the enemy.
“Making the K class longer and wider”.
Sure, mate. I want my coffin to be larger to let my corpse breathe and stretch.
I have dived on the M2, it is just deep enough to have not been smashed to bits by the sea and not too deep to give you a reasonable time on the wreck.
Its a good dive, if a bit eerie. Went down in bad viz and followed the line just in front of the bow and was a bit disoriented. Didn’t know where the wreck was until i turned around and the bow was towering above right behind, just like in the beginning of Das Boot! Gave me a real shock!
Yes I dived on her around 1991. The shot line put us slap bang on the conning tower. We entered the open hangar but obviously going any further isn't possible and we wouldn't anyway out of respect for the crew still inside. She is a hauntingly beautiful but sad site and my favourite dive of all time.
@@fus149hammer5 I didn’t go into the hangar myself but did peer in from outside, Certainly one of the best UK dives I’ve done myself, although nothing will rival the full penetration I did of the Thistlegorm, complete with BSA motorbikes and Bedford trucks in the hold
Ah, the submarine equivalent of a sawed off shotgun
"This is my (submersible) boom stick!"
More like a sawn-off Punt-Gun considering the size of the gun, relative to the hull
900pdr carronade
It's a Hood killer. Just aim at where the wake goes under the belt!
Am I the only one to have a "Crocodile Dundee" flash back ?
"That's not a deck gun,
THIS is a deck gun". LOL
Think about the recoil LOL.
It's not recoil. It's an escape feature that allows the sub to quickly reposition itself to avoid counter fire by suddenly lurching away from the visible muzzle flash. The navel equivalent of shoot and scoot.
That was my first thought, fire that thing as an auxiliary reverse booster.....
It's amazing how many crazy ideas need to be viewed retrospectively to see them for what they are.
I remember a President ask about nuking an approaching hurricane.
@@jimmiller5600sounds reasonable 🤔 😅
@@jimmiller5600 At least two have though I forget the names of these twits. More often I hear friends and co-workers asking the same question. I then have to explain to them how this would be such a fine idea to make massive amounts of whatever coast it hits self-illuminating but that even the smallest hurricane packs as much heat energy as 10,000 of the most powerful H-Bombs ever designed.
Is it April 1st again?
Then I realized...oh, another British submarine.
According to a book about submarines that we (my brothers and I) had back in the mid-1970's, what happened to M2 was that as the crew gained experience operating M2 they became better at opening the hanger doors just as the sub surfaced. One sad day they were too efficient at this, and opened the doors before the sub was fully surfaced. As a result of this the sub swallowed water like a thirsty whale and sank with all hands.
😦 i guess there *IS* such a thing as being too good at your job...
Just like "rapid loading" for Beatty's battle-cruiser squadron.
Apparently it actually sank stern first...
so no one survived?
I'm surprised this 5min guide didn't take 40m maybe he's planning separate videos with more details 🤔
@jeebusk They only recovered the body of the pilot of the aircraft. When they found and tried to raise the boat the float plane broke apart freeing his body.
There was a British seaman who actually witnessed M2 sink, but initially thought nothing of it and only reported it after he had returned to port and casually told an acquaintance that he had seen a submarine dive stern-first.
If you're interested, it was the bridge crew of the SS Tynesider
Surcouf: I was made to give Marine National more cruisers without breaking the naval treaty. You were made by an eccentric engineer on god knows what.
We are not the same.
It's just your good ol alcohol...
Straight into the veins
@@roempoetliar7995 they got that 99%
M1, m2 m3, m4. You sunk my battleship!
I had a friend build the M-1 in 1/144th scale it was 21 inches long. and had gun on that shot a 11/32 ball baring. It could submerge and raise. It use Ferron gas as it propellent. It was so cool. It was found it could be easily defeated by parking over the submarine. until the time allowed in the game.
I am always amazed at the creativity? imagination ? madness ? tried for various ships.
The Bat Cave subs that launched Regulus missiles (Halibut) were the modern version of this sub.
The sheer imagination needed by the RN to find new ways to try and kill their sailors is truly astounding.
"you can't say civilization don't advance - for every war they kill you a new way!"
Not entirely fair. Every navy had trial platforms...
@@Jpdt19but none had as many boats sink during tests or exercises...
@@therovingrobin5938 Look at the list of Soviet submarines sunk in peacetime, not even during trials, but during normal service.
@@therovingrobin5938How many had as many experimental ships?
This submarine may very well be the greatest thing I have ever seen
Steampunk rules.
@@jamierogerson5538 the French and Japanese will do it one better.
Check the surcouf 😂
surcouf has entered the chat
@@jeebusk Surcoaf was late to the chat, she wouldnt be commissioned for another 18 years.
Can't wait to see these and the Surcouf in World of Warships lol
50 knots top speed, keeps the homing torpedos, shots from the gun ignore armor and auto detonate the ship if it touches the citadel, has a self heal consumable and a spotter plane that lets it shoot while submerged. And radar because why not. Costs $200 .
@@redramageOhh. I see you too have played World of Warships.😂
This video made me realize that, like in your conversations with VenomGeekMedia, you could draw a parallel between the design and tactics of the Birds-of-Prey and these monitor/cruiser type submarines.
A "sub- optimal" idea; and a great video 👍🏻
Thanks for the vid Drachs, been looking forward for this one about the interesting m class.
It always seems that the powers that be will take a basically sound design,let’s say a SUBmarine,redesign it to do something differently and expect it to function correctly…and when it fails wonder why.Cheers,Roly🇬🇧
Didn't the Japanese resurrect this genius idea in WW II?
@@inyobillthe one with aircrafts ?
Yep
I didn't know Percy Hobart did subs too 😉
Before WW2, Karl Doenitz had his submarine crews train to attack underwater from 600 meters. Once war began, there were many occasions when attacks were made on the surface at night at ranges under 2000 meters. Some sub skippers even surfaced within convoys and attacked from there, counting on the escorts being outside the convoy.
This is point blank range for naval guns of the era. So there might have been an use case for a gun armed sub, attacking at night, with surprise.
Torpedoes can be expected to do a lot more damage than shells, but you can carry a lot more shells if they aren't too big.
There are several things that would likely kill the idea. One is the lack of a modern fire control system. Another is the difficulty of firing accurately from such a low platform in anything but a dead calm. Yet another is the long reload time. The last is the doubtless extreme stress placed on the boat by firing a large gun.
Sub hulls of the era, though not armored, were generally enormously strong, in order to resist the pressure of the water at depth. They also used rounded surfaces in many places. These two factors made them difficult targets for surface gunnery. The strong structure used to handle water pressure might have helped the boat handle the stress of firing the gun - though I am dubious. If anything, I would expect firing the gun to reduce the probability that the sub would be able to successfully submerge to operating depth without water coming in as a result of something being weakened somewhere in the vessel - perhaps a rivet coming loose or a welded joint being weakened?
I would think the presence of the gun would make the sub an easier target. Fire against subs was normally directed against the base of the conning tower, because that was the location where shells were least likely to skip off the rounded surfaces - and this sub has the equivalent of a larger 'conning tower' due to the presence of the gun.
Other issues are the impact on diving time (hence increased vulnerability to ramming and close range shallow depth charges or to later technology such as hedgehogs) and the likelihood of increased noise and reduced speed when underwater.
Thanks Drach, you never cease to amaze with what you can dig up out of obscurity and turn it into an amazing story!
It seems such a terrible idea to us now, sure, but "escaped the washington naval treaty by a technicality that limited the size of guns on new submarines, not existing ones" implies at least one major naval power was concerned about people building more of these things.
Amazing pics in this one, love the shot of it next to the Aquatania.
The M-Class subs absolutely fascinated me as a kid, and I read every source I could find in my local library and then the Internet and I’ve always thought the class were very innovative, if slightly cursed as all three seemed to have suffered a lot of bad luck.
I’d love a deep-dive Wednesday Video into them, especially M1 and M2.
A deep dive on the M class would be great fun!
The expression “lost with all hands” gets used so often it’s a wonder any navy can find enough people willing to man submarines.
Right, like it's not bad enough you put me on a damn boat, but you stick me on this crazy thing that sinks on purpose.......
Fortunately, it doesn't happen quite so often these days. Sometimes we can go several years between submarine disasters.
@@alexandermonro6768unless you are russian. 😂
I have to imagine a surface ship captain, seeing an M-class for the first time, would be in the "what fresh hell is this?" mode. And overall, it seems that the Brit designers did a great job on the whole "aim, surface, fire, submerge" cycle.
What M-class really needed is an ability to reload underwater with improvements to the muzzle seal. Though this would mean that there would be a genius captain who would decide to disable the interlocks for more fire rate.
@@user-xb1wh5mt4l Only if Beatty was transferred to the M-class.
When I see stuff like this, I actually can understand how someone would, on paper, think this was a good idea.
And then I wonder how the hell someone actually built it without realizing their absurdity.
Why is it absurd?
@@andreaswiklund719712 inch gun on a submarine ....
Thats the armament of a battleship
On one of the smallest ship classes
Dude, just look at the thing.
The people building it did realize that it was dumb, but the swivel chair crowd is educated, don't you know, and certainly isn't going to entertain the negativity of the crude sort that actually has tools in hand.... Happens all the time.
@@nikolaideianov5092And?
Geeeze, that flat front of the added structure to the mine laying version (@7:52) has to impart tremendous drag. You'd think they'd just put a simple conical deflector ramp in front to limit drag.
It's not flat, look at the top view at 7:42
@@randomnickify OK, I see. Picture @7:44 is clearer. Pic @7:52 must be an optical confusion, cause man, it looks flat.
I feel like if they had used a smaller gun like a 6 or 8 inch but then equipped it with some kind of revolver or magazine style autoloader so it had the ability to rattle off a couple shots in a row, with the close range compensating for the smaller weapon, that could actually have been pretty effective. Given that it's not a turret and so it doesn't have to move that much, the complexity of the rammer and such would be significantly less than on a regular warship.
3:11 That picture with Aquitania is stunning! 😮
M2 is still available to vsit at recreational depths off the coast near Portland.
I'm amazed it took this long to get an episode on the M-class. Goofy wild things.
those Admiralty fellows back then, sure were wild and crazy guys.
I like the M1 and apparently she was quite handy underwater. Luck was just against her when SS Vidar hit her. M2 is more difficult to defend - big open space a few feet above water facing the bow??? Mmm.
M3? Well the RN learnt a fair amount about mine laying through her.
Whatever way you look at it however, they were better than the K class. M1 was bloody unlucky,M2 probably sank due to trying to launch the Parnell to fast. Likely crew error. Compare that to the K class which really were deeply flawed and had a record that is highly unlikely to be ever beaten.
I love these they just look so derpy. Like someone tried to combine a WW2 tank destroyer with a submarine. Needing to surface to reload their gun was definitely a huge weakness though. Still, shame we never got to see them in combat.
Oh my God I have been waiting for this for years.....thank you
I've been waiting 5 years for this 🎉
I saw a documentary about HMS M1, the Swedish ship hit the gun and dismounted it. The mounting wasnt sealed and water poured in throught the mounting pin... they showed the hole through the hull where the gun was mounted and was considered a good enough seal.
Thanks Drach.
The idea of a submarine surfacing, cracking off a 12-inch shell and then disappearing beneath the waves in under 2 minutes is honestly a bit terrifying. Given the state of torpedoes at the time, it's easy to understand why it would be pursued. If it had even a small chance of working out, the program would be worth it
For shore bombarment
Not ships
Nice picture with Aquitania in the background.
Developing dedicated aircraft carrier subs and battleship subs would have been awesome.
Yet another thing I didn't know about - tyvm.
A battleship submarine is a badass idea.
“This gun cost 400 thousand dollars to fire for 12 seconds” heavy
Excellent photo footage.
I never caught that "M" stood for "Monitor"!
Orkimedes would have been so proud.❤😮
This is like one of those weird animals that evolves on a remote island and keeps going as a species not necessarily because it's good, but because there's nothing around to kill it.
Question -- wouldn't the muzzle blast and recoil create tremendous opportunities for things to crack? I now that's not important on submarines................
a perfect ship for world of warship and war thunder once they add submarines
Thanks!
Ok, I want this in WOWS as soon as possible, right after MN Surcouf
I keep waiting for this and the I400 sub/carrier to be implemented in World of Warships. They have thrown every other hybrid at the wall, so why not these?
I adore the TF2 reference in the middle of a history lesson 😂
Imagine that, a submarine named M1 (British, in this case).
Thank you, Drachinifel.
In hindsight it seems stupid, but at the time they had no idea how warfare would evolve. I think it was worth exploring.
Time to get to work on the chore list.
Drach drop.
Yes !
Awesome and informative video thanks Drach
Looking forward to watching this....always fascinated by this submarine and it's big gun. It seems like it would have been a great success. But I guess not.
I have not watch a video in such a long time that the intro music changed.
Here's a conversation that was needed.
Ideas guy: "We'll pop up and use a big gun to sink enemy shipping."
Navy guy: "What if they have a guy in a big canoe sporting a 2" gun?"
Ideas guy: "..."
It's not a bad idea, as such. Just an impractical one.
Thank you.
Ah, Swedish merchantmen. Accidentally sinking military subs, while doing their regular business, "Did I step on ye? Sorry."
Perhaps I am missing something but I thought the whole point of a submarine was to hide in the seas and hit the enemy while submerged- if your torpedo is not good enough make a better one ( the Japanese Long Lance). The thought process explains so much about the absence of capable equipment when World War Two began.
The moment the word "committee" was uttered I knew just how this was going to go.
A 5 Minute in guide for Sub fans today.
2:11 😂 I wasn’t expecting a TF2 reference from Drachinifel.
Reminds me of the Surcouf.
Artillery subs. Like something from a Command & Conquer game
Is it just me or is this kind of awesome? I've heard of these battleship-gun uboats before, and for some reason didn't care to look into them in any depth, but after this video; damn it's a cool idea. Not saying it was a great one - but it doesn't have to be great to be cool lol. I think this boat even looks awesome in a somewhat wacky this-belongs-in-some-steampunk-world way
So ... Is the Royal Navy the pioneer of building an underwater aircraft carrier?
Just as an alternate history would the Monitor design of submarine work elsewhere such as in the Pacific islands or US coast or are they shallow as well?
I guess it makes sense that they would want to apply the strongest weapons of the time (heavy artillery) to as many platforms as possible, but in this case the result is just comical! 😅
"This is the war ship Rocinante!"
visions of Bobby actually running in an oldschool dive suit with an LMG and limpet mines:)
So like did it work? Obviously no combat service but they must have had some idea how well it would have actually worked?
@@Gokatgo the royal navy quickly realised it was a dead end, even before the M1 had its accident.
WNT kind of prevented further development of the idea - although this certainly wasn't what finished off the idea.
In Paul Akermans words, it was "the sad result of a total misconception of the real nature of the submarines capabilities" that doomed them - torpedo warfare evolved massively during WW1 and the years afterwards, and the M class would need to get to point blank range - if it missed it was a dead duck. Coupled with the fact that if the enemy could shoot back, you would be in trouble. Additionally, the guns used had inferior range compared to most contemporary shore batteries, so the subs would be exposed to fire during bombardment ops.
Basically - they were commissioned into obscurity and futility.
@@timholgate6639 Thank you for the comment. Meant more from an engineering perspective. Like did they physically work as intended, not from a true war perspective
@@Gokatgo I guess yes then! They were, ironically actually really good subs! Very stable, roomy and well liked by their crews. The gun did, from an engineering standpoint work (although there were several cockups resulting from trying to fire the things when water had ingressed into the barrel, or when forgetting to open the remote controlled tampion
I think this might have worked if they managed to design it so that only the barrel and the periskope look out of the water and they could reload while submerged.
Few people know of the bizarre circumstances that led to Count Dracula being commissioned into the Royal Navy 5:27
The M class sub has breathable oxygen, fertile soil, tolerable gravity, and is generally pleasant for humans. Stocked with Rodenberries.
Reloading on the surface is a bit lame. It'd been awesome if the whole sub could stay under water with only the barrel and some periscopes poking out.
M must have stood for maddening since 2 out of three were sunk by accidents.
Thank you very interesting
A handful of the never completed Type XI gun uboats probably would've been useful for going at oil infrastructure in the Caribbean and the like. Overall the idea seems to be of very limited use
I propose the WW2 Italian torpedo boats, perhaps the Spica class Lupo and Sagittario.
Search, journey to the bottom of the sea m1, for a great video of this
The 12" gun M class looks like what a tier one Warship would be in an old RTS